S03E19 - Dr. David Miano // World of Antiquity

This week, Andrew and CK connect with Dr. David Miano. Dr. Miano is well known for his ability to speak to the chronology of the ancient world in a manner that is direct, yet thoughtful. The three discuss some of the common alternative historical theories and Dr. Miano provides Andrew and CK with his take on what we are seeing at play.

Dr. David Miano is an ancient historian specializing in the histories of the Near East, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, and China. He earned my Ph.D. at the University of California, San Diego. He is the author of How to Know Stuff, an e-book designed for the general public, and several anthologies designed for classroom use, including Ideas in the Making: A Sourcebook for World Intellectual History to 1300 and Pen Stylus, and Chisel: An Ancient Egypt Sourcebook.

He currently teaches at the State College of Florida, Manatee-Sarasota. Previously, he taught at the University of California, San Diego, and at San Diego Mesa College. In 2009 Dr. Miano received the Revelle College Outstanding Faculty Award in recognition of his excellence in teaching, and he continues his efforts to improve. Additionally, he is the founder and executive director of Schola Antiquorum, a national, non-profit academic society dedicated to the study of ancient history.

Episode Transcript

(00:36):
All right, it's Monday, andwelcome to this week's installment of Lost Origins.
Homie c K, how are youholler? By the time you guys
listen to this, someone will havewon the Super Bowl. I know it's
going to be. I don't evenknow what to expect. I mean,
we've got a lot of sports ballstuff going on tonight. I can't place
a bet on who's going to win. I don't really follow that, but
I just want to tip the proverbialhat to all the teams out there that

(00:58):
really gave it. They're all totry to track down that golden snitch and
you know, do the thing.For the rest of you are just not
as magic and clearly you didn't makeit and you can't all be a champion
except for this team that I don'tknow yet. Yeah, Sports serious,
sports bawl. Yeah, I don'treally know much about Sports Bowl, and

(01:19):
we are actually recording this at atime that I think they might even be
kicking balls through things. Yeah,the tip off just started opening. Pitch
the Center Bowl, how to comeDown? It's gonna be the thing.
Yeah, Yeah, it's sports notwhat this podcast is about. Thank God.

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(03:13):
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some skepticism, but it's one ofthe most like simple, easy, accessible.
Just like every single one of thethings that I'm looking into is way
over my head originally, and thenafter you know, seven or eight courses
or seven or eight you know,topics deep, I'm already doing things at

(03:34):
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which is to focus on computers andbig data and how they can now just
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I alive? What I mean?We kind of conversations that, yeah,
we've talked about free will technology,you know, whether or not things that

(04:17):
we do are real? What isthe substance of the choices we make?
You know, I feel like we'veexplored some of these things, but I
will say, probably without having gottenthrough this course yet personally, that they
will absolutely bring it to a differentlevel for us. Yeah, easily one
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Yeah, it's worth. We're nottrying to waste your time. It's
absolutely worth every moment. And frankly, if you don't, I think so

(05:00):
thirty bucks is nothing. Thanks forpulling me back on the rails too.
I was going to try to comeup some long winded metaphor that would waste
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plus dot com slash lost origins allone word, get in there, let
us know what you think, letus know what courses you guys are jumping
into, and let's let's rife abouthim on social media. So this week
we have one hell of a treatin store for you. Like we had

(05:21):
mentioned last week, we are goingto be talking to doctor David Miano today
and so this is going to bea pretty interesting conversation because for the life
of the show, we've brought onmany alternative thinking minds throughout the world that
are just like spearing the charge ondifferent theories, research topics, whatnot that
they're digging into the kind of challengethe status quo, so to speak,

(05:43):
right, and so doctor Miano,I mean this guy. He has a
YouTube channel that is widely followed.But he's an ancient historian and he specializes
in the histories of the Near East, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India,
China. The list goes on andon. This guy earned his PhD
at the University of California and SanDiego into the six and he's the author
of how to Know Stuff, whichthat sounds like the title of a book

(06:04):
I would write. I like that, I mean, And he has several
anthologies of ancient works designed specifically forclassroom views. This guy currently teaches at
the State College in Florida, andhe runs the YouTube channel that I mentioned
that's called the World of Antiquity,and so this features his travels to ancient
sites, but it also is aseries that debunks a lot of common misconceptions

(06:26):
within ancient times. And so Ithink he does a really good job of,
like tactfully and gracefully approaching a lotof the alternative schools of thought out
there. Yeah, but he's alsopretty blunt, you know, and I
think to some degree, as aacademic historian. He feels like he has
a really serious responsibility to clear thingsup with certain groups that may look at

(06:47):
things from different angles, and Ithink he does it in a really thoughtful,
non dismissive and also just trying tochallenge people who are trying to challenge
things for sure. And so Ithink it's gonna be a lot of fun
because when we get him on thehorn, we like to ask questions,
and we also let ourselves a littlebit of controversy controversial, and so I
want to make sure that we rippedthrough Sumerian astronomical knowledge Atlantis if we have

(07:12):
to have, because that's always fun. The Great Pyramids, I mean,
just as much as we can getthrough in an hour with this guy.
But I want to pick his brainand just see what his take is on
these topics. So let's get himan let's go all right, Good afternoon,

(07:36):
doctor Miano. How the hell areyou? I'm doing great, guys,
Thanks for having me on. Ohno, it's our pleasure. We're
really really excited to welcome you tothe Lost Origins Roster. I think this
is going to be a really reallyfun conversation. Really excited to just get
your take and you know, onall these different concepts and theories that we're
going to have ripped through today,it's always fun to just get another perspective

(07:57):
and make sure that we're looking atthings from from all angles on the show.
So this will be good stuff.And so doctor Miano. Um.
You know, for those who followyour work, you know, in various
different channels, um, they'd knowthat you teach at State College of Florida,
Maniti Sara Soda, Um, youare a PhD at University of California,
San Diego. Back in two thousandand six, way long ago.

(08:18):
You host a pretty awesome YouTube channel, the World of Iniquity or Antiquity sorry,
World of Iniquity a totally different thing, but a world of World of
antiquities. Yeah, that sounds soundslike the news these days. Um uh.
You know you travel to ancient sites. You also, you know,
spend a lot of time debunking commonmisconceptions about ancient times. But for those
who have maybe haven't seen those thingsor haven't followed your career, you know,

(08:41):
can you give us a breakdown ofyou know, how did you how
did you get involved in all ofthis? What really got you started?
Back in the day, and whatkind of things do you focus on nowadays?
Okay, yeah, I've always lovedhistory. Uh was one of my
favorite classes through school, and butI didn't get into that right away.
I tried a few other majors andthen finally settled on it. And initially

(09:01):
I was just thinking, maybe I'llteach high school social studies or something like
that. But boy, the moreclasses I took on the ancient material,
the more excited I was. AndI think we all can agree ancient history
is really fascinating. I found itway more interesting than some of the more
recent subject matters, So the older, the better for me. So I

(09:24):
just I still end it to thisday. I'm so glad I did it
because I still am just as muchin love with the subject as I was
back then. And even though Iknow that I may have differences of opinion
with many of your listeners, weall share the same love. So I'm
coming here as a fellow enthusiast,you might say. So. Yeah,

(09:46):
I went to the University of California, San Diego for my PhD and studied
under a great team of professors,and I've been teaching ever since. I
started up a nonprofit of two yearsago called Skola Antiquorum, which is designed
to make ancient history available through onlinecourses. But I'm still trying to get

(10:07):
that off the ground and now I'mkind of using my YouTube channel to build
an interest in that. So withinthe next year or so, I will
start offering online courses on various ancientsubjects. Yeah, and so on the
college level. So it wouldn't justbe like superficial kind of classes. These
would be deep dives, you know, right right. But yeah, my

(10:30):
my YouTube channel, I just startedit up in the beginning of July and
I got he is going on thechannel. One is on a series of
travel videos. So my plan isto travel around to various ancient sites around
the world and build interest in thoseplaces. Just finished a trip to England
and in December I'm going to begoing to the Yucatan Peninsula to examine the

(10:54):
Mayan ruins. So I'm welcome startedthat. If you want C K and
I to come with you and tickets, it will be there. Man.
If if this, if these travelvideos turn out successful, I'll probably start
bringing people, so you never know, I'll put your name on a list,
awesome list, a good list.So before we get to I don't

(11:16):
have literal list just yet, butI will sure my other series as uh,
these debunking videos, I guess youcould call them. I've been avoiding
the word debunked because everyone kind ofoveruses the term, but so I say,
like, I'm an examination of thevarious topics, and so I've been
taking some other I've been addressing otherYouTubers videos, um, And there's two

(11:39):
reasons for that. One is becausea lot of people are watching those videos,
and I, you know, maybeI'll build some interest that way if
some of the viewers of those videoswatch my videos. But also because since
a lot of people do watch thosevideos, there might be some information going
around that I think is not accurateand needs to be corrected. So that's

(12:01):
why I do it. So I'mtrying to pick some interesting subjects, and
I've got a few out now.I've got one on the Pyramids and one
on Atlantis, and one on thecylinder seal Va two forties three with the
solar system and all of that,and I'm working on one right now on
whether India was the first civilization inthe world, which is some people believe.

(12:22):
So uh, it's on that Yeah, I've spent some time on the
YouTube channel. There's definitely some reallyreally interesting videos that you've pieced together.
Um, I didn't like take itas like the debunking swing at all.
It was more or less like alet's kind of take a step back and
throw another perspective, you know,at it, and it's it's really cool.
When you mentioned the Pyramids video,we are going to talk about that
today. You talk about other peopleconsuming that content. I believe that one

(12:46):
has what like fourteen plus million viewsat the time that you produced that that
film or that that video. Isthat correct? Yeah? That was That's
like a viral video. Everybody waswatching it and uh, you know,
and I had it shared with me, like hey, hey, what do
you think of this video? Soso basically I'm telling people want to think
of it? Sure, And Ithink, you know, it's almost like

(13:07):
a public service right to the extentthat there there are absolutely you know,
room in the or there's room inthe debate for plenty of perspectives. But
I think to some of the pointyou were making a moment ago, there
also are so many people who justyou know, are going to put things
out that are absolutely not substantiated.It's one thing to have theories. I
think we all have theories about things, and it's fun to ruminate about them

(13:30):
or dig into them. But definitelyappreciate somebody who's taking a really serious approach
to trying to find the truth ofsomething, not just something that might feel
controversial or feel good or something.So thank you for doing that. I
try very hard not to like,I'm not doing it to make fun of
people or to you know, scorepoints. I'm trying to like, say,
let's step back here and just thinkthis through for a minute, you

(13:50):
know, step by step, andcan we are going to do we come
to the same conclusion if we reallythink it through. And so it's more
like that, are you opposed tothe next great Twitter battle or because that
could be fun? Those are alwaysfun. Surprisingly, I thought I would
get more blowback, you know,but I haven't received a lot. I

(14:11):
mean I get some some people gettingangry about it, but not many.
So that's been pleasant. Yeah,for sure, for sure, because the
Internet is I mean, it's mean, little gnarly. Yeah. Yeah.
So before we get super heavy,I really wanted to do just like a
quick discussion of a few of themisconceptions regarding ancient Mesopotamia specifically. Okay,

(14:33):
so there's many components of ancient historythat seem to get lumped into the one
Sumerian bucket, if you will,and I thought that it would be a
really good jumping off point to getyour professional insight on a few examples,
those being like the Library of OsherBonnie Paul, the winged Bowles, which
are often referred to as as theon a Naki, the origination of the
you know, the Sumerian calendars andtimekeeping systems, and basically like the advanced

(14:56):
nature of the Sumerian civilization as awhole. Know, there are some wires
crossed there, and I think itwould be very beneficial for the audience if
you could just break us off onwhat you're actually seeing here when you look
under the hood. Okay, Yeah, I think there's a few common mistakes
people make when they're when they're dealingwith the subject of ancient Mesopotamia, and

(15:16):
it's understandable that they would, butone common one I've seen is kind of
mushing them all together. So likewhether they're Samarians or Assyrians or Babylonians and
maybe even the Persians, you know, everything is kind of lumped together as
if it's all the same. Butwe're talking about different cultures that live during

(15:37):
different time periods, and so youhave to separate and also think about the
chronology and when this was. Peopleconsider just kind of homogeneous, and I
think that does lead to some mistakes. The other common mistake I think is
people looking only at the art andnot reading any of the documents. So,

(16:00):
you know, there's a lot ofyou know, because obviously most people
can't read the ancient languages. Sowhat are you gonna do. You're gonna
look at the art, you know, I'll look at these cool creatures and
all that and develop ideas without consultingor without consulting enough the written sources we
have on these things that can shedsome more light on the subject. And

(16:21):
that's why I made this one onthe cylinder seal with which you know,
goes back to Zechora stitch and believingit's the solar system. But there's so
many documents we have from the ancientMesopotamians to talk about their views of the
of the universe and how it's constructedand all that that can shed a lot
of light on what these images couldbe. You know, on these various

(16:42):
cylinder seals or sure. So,like when we look at the Library of
Asher Bonnie Paul for for example,a lot of people assumed that when that
site was excavated, that's where alot of the kinea form tablets were actually
you know like recovered and and wewere able to start to parse that language
and understand what we were working withthere. But that's that's an incorrect assumption,

(17:04):
correct it? Who is mainly Assyriantablets that came out of that library?
Is that? Is that a correctWell, it's a little of both.
Cunea form, of course, isjust the scripture. You can you
can write a Syrian in Canea form. So when I say this was our
Syrian tablets, yeah, they're they'rewritten in CANEI form, absolutely, but

(17:25):
they're not Sumerian language. Okay.So the Sumerians invented canea form and they
used it first for their language.Then the Acadian speaking people started using canea
form for their language, and Acadianthen developed into two branches, Assyrian and
Babylonian. So the Assyrians and Babyloniansalso use Canea form to write their language.

(17:47):
And there were other people too,lesser you know, more minor countries
and all that that also use Caneaform to write their language. So it's
one of those universal scripts. Youcould you could write English in Canea form
if you wanted to. Uh Soone of the first things you have to
do when you find a tablet islike, which language is this in?
You know? And so the libraryof asher Bonopal, Yes, all this

(18:08):
is the greatest find of Cunean formtablets we've ever had. But they're not
Sumerian, you know, they comefrom a later time asher Bonnopal he ruled
in the seventh century BC, somuch later than the Sumerian heyday. So
we just have to keep that inmind when we're when we discover things like

(18:29):
that. So just to kind ofpoke at this a little bit more as
well. Um, you know,you see people really looking back on some
of the iconography and the artwork ofdifferent Sumerian sites, and one of the
you know, characters that people oftenpoint to is this, uh the idea
of the honor Naki Um. Ijust I'm interested just to get your perspective

(18:51):
on you know, what what sortsof things do you think about? Those
figures? Do they you know,specifically as it might relate to like being
given timekeeping knowledge or the you know, sexidecimal system and some of these other
kind of advanced things that the Sumeriancivilization had. We're just that fit into
your research at all? Or isit something that you just don't deal with?

(19:15):
Um? Well, I mean,as far as the anonachi goes.
Uh, well, let's let's say, let's put it this way. In
ancient Kenea form tablets, Mesopotamian writings, Uh, the anonachi are not really
a prominent feature, you know whatI'm saying. They don't talk about them
a lot. They talk about usuallygods by their individual names. You'll get

(19:36):
all kinds of individual god's names.But but there aren't that many terms that
the Mesopotamians used for a grouping ofgods. They have the anonachi, they
have the igigi. There aren't reallythat many groups of gods. And I
think it appealed to a zecharia sitchen. You know, at least it's a
term we could use for this groupof gods. But it's you know,

(19:59):
anonachi is um is a later term. We think that maybe it goes back
to Sumerian word anuna. But again, these gods were not um. I
think people are attributing to this groupof gods more accomplishments than the actual documents
say. You know, you knowwhat I'm saying, And the giggy gods,

(20:22):
for example, are more important thanthe anonachi Um. They're they're higher
gods. So so yeah, butI mean this just general idea of um.
We call this u hemerism um whereyou assume that the gods were real
people. In other words, thatthe that the ancient people misunderstood and they

(20:45):
met real people whom they didn't understandand seemed magical to them and started worshiping
them as gods. This is anThis became very popular in the sixties and
seventies, and that that happens toAndrew all the time. You know,
will show up at a place andthey'll be like, what are you?
You know the Jedi exactly. Yeah, you're basically speaking to the right.

(21:11):
That's very much like the car.Yeah. The problem I have with that
approach is, I mean, Isuppose it's possible that, you know,
legendary figures could be turned into godslater on, but to just assume that
like that was the most common thingthat happened, like all the gods have
those origins. I think um ismisunderstanding the ancient mind. Um. For

(21:33):
them, they looked at the featuresof nature and they personified those features of
nature. The sun was a god, the moon was a god, the
stars were god. You know,the earth was a god. You know,
the storm was a god. Theseare all natural phenomena that they just
personified in their minds, and they'relike thinking of them as as intelligent spirits.
That's really where the gods come from. And we just have this tendency

(21:57):
to kind of anthropomorphize the figure orthe sort of we want to contain a
particular god or a particular god narrativelike inside something that sort of resembles some
sort of bipedal or anthro kind offormat, right, Yeah. And and
instead as time goes on, insteadof what some people assume is that earthly

(22:18):
physical creatures be turned into gods andin people's minds over time, what in
fact happens is these these natural forcesget made more human over time, you
know what I'm saying. So theywrite stories about them and they turn them
into themselves basically. So I thinkthat is the more realistic way of looking

(22:38):
at the religion. Sure. Um. And so I think you know,
something that's sort of ancillary to religion, or at least maybe gets pulled into
some of the discussion about religion.Is this sort of seeking in the cosmos
or the sort of celestial mechanics thata lot of ancient civilizations have, you
know, some knowledge of. AndI think, just you know, continuing

(22:59):
thinking about this Sumarians, there aredefinitely a lot of people in this space
who, you know, have awide ranging series of set of theories about
the Summarians and their um either extremeor potentially outsize knowledge of celestial mechanics.
UM. And so I'm just wondering, you know, from your perspective,
what kind of knowledge do you thinkthe Sumarians had? Was it? Was
it a sort of synoptic for theirtime? Um? Was it immense?

(23:23):
Is it something that we ascribe tothem too much? What do you think
about that? Yeah, Yeah,I'm there's no doubt they are an impressive
civilization and they're the first that weknow of. But I think their knowledge
has been exaggerated. UM. AndI think it's great to be impressed by
the things that they were able todo, but to I think sometimes people

(23:47):
are inclined to give them more creditthan they deserve. So um, we
have well, it's a little difficultwith the Sumarians because we don't have a
lot of their astronomical documents. Wehave documents from a little bit later times.
We have quite a bit from theAssyrians and Babylonians, which we can
say, oh, this probably developedfrom earlier Sumerian views, So you can

(24:08):
only go so far back. Butusing the Mesotamian documents that we have,
they're astronomical documents, and they havedocuments that talk about this the cosmos and
it's how it's put together, wecan see pretty clearly that they knew of
only five planets, the five planetsthat you can see with the human eye,

(24:32):
so you know, and that theybelieve that the Sun and the Moon
and the stars not only were thatthey were gods, but that they were
really not that far away, becausethey believed that the Earth was covered by
a heavenly ocean and that the sun, moon, and stars were on this
side of the ocean, like sothere isn't that far up there, you

(24:53):
know what I'm saying. And thesame thing with the planets as well.
And then on the other side ofthe ocean above the ocean. That's where
all the gods were and all ofthat. But so it's a it's a
primitive view. And they also believethat the Earth was flat, a flat
It was basically a flat circle,a flat disk with an ocean going around
it. And um, it's notright just to be just to just to

(25:17):
put our stake in the ground here. It is not you're not going to
blow us, blow our mind andbe like guys, they were right,
Oh, no, a fath Ohthat's im sure the flats are gonna love
me, saying that, um,if we get any messages around that will
ford them to you though, thatwill definitely. As they explored more of

(25:41):
their world, and as their knowledgegrew of how big it was, the
circle that they're picturing as the Earthdid get bigger in their minds, like,
oh, there's more here than wethought, you know, and so
they expand the circle. Yeah,but it still remained a circle. And
the Greeks had the same view ofthe of the world, very similar.
I should say that it was aflat circle until you get to Aristotle people

(26:02):
like that who started arguing, no, it's a sphere, you know.
Well, let's take it one stepfurther. Right. You had mentioned earlier
in the conversation some of the depictionsand the seal specifically that zechor syson is
is basically parsing to be a mapor a representation of the Solar system.
Kind of walk our audience through thisseal specifically, maybe even one step back,
what is a seal as opposed to, you know, one of these

(26:26):
ancient depictions, and then walk usthrough why it's it's not a depiction of
the Solar system. I thought yourtake on this was was fascinating as hell.
Okay, so a cylinder seal isis basically the seal itself, which
is what we find in the ground, is a It's usually made out of

(26:48):
bone or stone or sometimes metal,and it's um It's like a shape of
a kind of like a little pillar. And what they would do is they
would roll it out onto clay tomake an impression, and on the seal
going around it would be the identifyingmark of the person who owned it.
It could be an administrative official,could be a businessman, somebody who wanted

(27:10):
to like I guess you'd say,notarize or whatever an object. So they
would roll it out onto a pieceof clay very commonly you'll find it for
like merchants, who would they'd havelike a big vessel, a big jar
of something, right, and theywould put a clay seal at the top
of it, and then they wouldroll it out so you would know that

(27:32):
they you know, this is packedwith freshness. You know, these are
Jeff spiders do not eat my lunch. Best Buy. But what you'll often
see online or an image is isbecause we don't actually find the clay that
they roll out on. We callthat a ceiling or an impression, but

(27:53):
we call it a ceiling. Butwe don't find those very often. We
just find the seal itself. Sowhat we do is we'll roll it out
so you can see what the seallooked like, you know. So you'll
see these images of a long stripusually of the seal rolled out. But
that long strip that you're looking atis modern. It's not it wasn't found
archaeologically. Just we just want youto see what it look like, you

(28:15):
know. So it's not the samething as a tablet, which is a
tablet is what they would write theKuneo form on. But anyway, yeah,
so cylinder seal VA to forty three, which has this image that Sitchin
believe was a solar system, hastwo men on it, who actually three
men on it? Well, Ishouldn't say men. One's a god and

(28:37):
two are probably men. I actuallyno, this is one thing I m
a little adjustment from what I hadin my video. I was talking to
a samariologist about this. But theone is a god, so I did
say that in my video. Andhe is presenting to someone a plow.
Right, it's a very primitive lookingprep plow, but it's a plow he's

(28:57):
given them, and we believe maybeNinerta, because he is the god often
attributed as giving humans the plow technology. And then what you'll see the other
two people. There's someone leading anotherperson by the hand, and the person
probably leading the other person it mightbe a minor god. And then the
final person is probably the person whoowned the seal. And in this case,

(29:22):
his name is ili a Lot.There's writing on the seal by the
way, and his name is onthere, ili a Lot. So maybe
he was in the agriculture business orsomething like that. We're not really sure,
and there's not a lot of informationon it, just his name and
so forth. So but and thenright in front of his face, okay,
above his head kind of is thisimage. You'll see it looks like

(29:47):
people have interpreted to be the Sunwith a bunch of planets going around it,
But in fact, scholars believe thatthese are all stars. And the
reason is, first of all,the biggest star there can't be the Sun,
because we already know what the Sunlooks like in cylinder seals and other
art of the period, and ithas a specific look and it has the

(30:10):
Sun always has these wavy lines comingout of it, and this one doesn't.
This one looks like a regular starthat they used to draw. The
other circles don't have points around them, so people think, oh, they
must be planets, not stars.But the Sumerians and later Babylonians and so
forth often drew stars as just plaindots, so you'll see that. And

(30:33):
what I mentioned in the video mostlikely is that we're looking at a grouping
of twelve stars. And in theirastronomy they used to divide the heavens up
into three bands, named after agod each and in each band they would
have there were these twelve month stars, and each month one of the stars
would rise in the morning would bethe brightest star. So probably what you're

(30:59):
seeing here is the twelve month starswith one of the stars rising, and
that's why it's bigger than the rest. Anyway, that's the best educated guess.
But it cannot possibly be a solarsystem number one because that's not the
sun, and number two because theyonly knew about five planets. Okay,
so and it also believed that theEarth was flat. So whatever we're seeing

(31:21):
here, whatever, in any cylinderseal, whatever you see, it's going
to be a depicting something that theycould observe from the ground. I can't
help. But as I'm thinking aboutthis, and I am in no way
saying this to belittle the Sumerian culture, but when I think about it as
like, you know, young kidssometimes they'll give you these like drawings of

(31:42):
like look, I mean they justyou know, they had a science class
or something and they start painting andthey're like, look, I made this
thing for you. Like this kiddoesn't know what they're talking about. This
That sun doesn't have any wavy lines. There's only five planets. What are
you a third grader? This iscrap. Get back to me when you
actually take a course. So alsoyou're yeah, you're grounded for not knowing
anything. So UM appreciate that disambiguationfor us, UM, because I think

(32:06):
there's some subtleties there that are thatare valuable. UM. So to shift
gears just a little bit, UM, since I feel like you're on a
good role here, just addressing somereally key aspects that I think are important
to listeners of the show and peoplewho are really interested in this topic in
general. One of the areas thatwe've had a lot of discussion with different
guests, um, you know,over over a long period of time and

(32:27):
also just most recently spoke with somedifferent experts on this UM is this sort
of series of different cataclysms, rightthat there are these cataclysmic periods. Specifically,
one of them that we focus onis the Younger Dryas, and you
know, we we've had some discussionsabout how this potentially had some destruction of
advanced civilization attached to it, somethingthat you know is often synonymous with destruction

(32:50):
of Plato's Atlantis. No. Iknow that's a topic that you've spoken on
quite a bit, and so I'mwondering if you could, you know,
kind of just walk through what youthink about younger dryas great deluge kind of
this antidiluvian mythos and just worldwide floodmyths in general, and how does that
fit into the rest of your work. Well, as far as that,

(33:13):
you know, the younger drives andthe geology is concerned, I defer to
the experts on that that is notmy field. So you know, what
the scientists say happened. I'm goingto go with that because I trust their
judgment as knowing what they're talking about. Now. Things may change in future,
I don't know. But I cantell you more about like the myths,
the legends and so forth associated withthe flood, because I do deal

(33:35):
with with writings. Yeah, sowell, first of all, I do
think I mean, it's very interestingthat all throughout the world you've got these
flood legends, and there's all kindsof flood legends. But that is something
I think to be expected because peopleare fascinated by natural disasters, and they

(33:58):
write about natural disasters all that time. I think we may be making a
mistake if we automatically assume that everysingle one of these flood legends is talking
about the same flood. How dowe know it's the same exact event,
you know, we don't. Anda lot has been made of the similarities
between the flood legends, but Ishould emphasize that the ones that are really

(34:22):
similar are the ones from the ancientNear East and from India. I guess
you could include them too, whereyou have someone building a boat or an
arc or something like that and bringinganimals on board and so on. But
the other flood legends are very different. They don't have that similar story.
China's flood legend doesn't have an arcor anything like that the American flood legends.

(34:45):
And there's another problem too, andthat is many of these flood legends
come from oral tradition. They're notwritten right, So we have these traditions
that have come down, been handeddown orally from generation to generation and then
weren't written down. We don't havelike as old of documents as we have
saying from the ancient Near East,and how how old are they really?

(35:07):
The longer something is transmitted, youknow, story, whatever's transmitted over generations
without being written down, the morelikely there is a chance that's going to
get changed. It's gonna get altered. So you know, you know,
you play telephone or whatever things getchanged as you pass it down by word
of mouth. So we don't knowhow old these legends are. We don't

(35:28):
know what the original form of thelegend was. That's all. Those are
all open questions, and so it'svery difficult to say, oh, oh
yeah, they definitely all go backto the same single event. We don't.
We just don't know that, youknow. Sure, So let me
if I could play Devil's Advocate reallyquick, cause I'm sure some of our
listeners are at home are wondering thisthere, Like, okay, so why

(35:49):
all flood myths though? Right,Like, we don't to my knowledge,
we over my understanding, we don'tsee a worldwide common denominator of like volcano
myths or like tornados, right,and some of them, some of these
flood myths that are found like inmeso America for example. I mean,
they're not apples to apples to theones found on the other side of the

(36:10):
globe, but they do share somecommonalities, right, So I just want
to get your take on why wouldthey all point to flood myth as a
whole just curious. I'm inclined tothink that it's because floods are one of
the most common natural disasters. Umcertain regions of the world. They don't
get earthquakes like other regions. Certainareas don't get tornadoes like other areas too.

(36:34):
Some areas get hit by h wellit's gonna say tsunamis, but that's
kind of like a flood too.But anyway, they're you know, sometimes
these things are just regional flood,a flood, you know, you could
pretty much count on. They dotalk a lot about storms everywhere, and
everybody gets storms. Another thing toconsider too, And I know this is
true with some of the Maya legends, and that is uh, the when

(36:59):
it finally did get written down,and we do have a version of an
American flood myth or whatever it wasafter the Spanish conquest, and so there's
a possibility that they heard the floodlegend from the Spaniards and influence their own
legends, you know. And sothat's a lot of these traditions could be
influenced from the biblical standpoint or whateverbecause they came into contact with people who

(37:23):
told them this fascinating story about thegreat flood. So there's that issue too,
yeah, for sure. So let'scontinue this conquest into the flood myths
a little bit, and more specifically, I want to start looking at some
of Plato's work, those being theTomaus and the Critius, Right, So
I want to know what your takeis on these writings, these two bodies

(37:45):
of work. Are they strictly metaphorical? And also what is your take on
like the Egyptian connection there via soulLong's time spent with Egyptian priests, and
then also how that basically becomes theorigin for the Atlantis story. Yeah,
well, as yeah, as aspeople may already know, these these two

(38:05):
books our oldest writings on the Atlantislegend. And so the question comes up,
did Plato make it up? Oris it? You know, is
it a real story that was goingaround? And although I can't give you
a definitive answer on this, Ican tell you what I think is the
most likely scenario. First of all, Plato is known for making things up.

(38:31):
Now, not because he was tryingto pull the wool over anyone's eyes.
Because these documents that he wrote,these books are not intended to be
histories. They're not intended to tellyou about the true past or anything like
that. All of Plato's works arein a dialogue form, and they're like
little plays of characters talking, andPlato is not one of the characters,

(38:51):
so you never get an authorial voicein his books. The closest you're going
to get is from his character Socrates. Now, Srates was a real person,
but in Plato's books, he's justa character, and Socrates will say
things. But in the case ofAtlantis, it's not Socrates who's telling the
story of Atlantis. It's one ofthe other characters who's just a character.

(39:14):
And you know what it gets meis that some people will take his name
is Critius. Some people take Critius'swords as if they are Plato's words directly
to us, you know, likelike Plato is writing to his audience and
he's telling them about Atlantis. Butthat's not exactly true. Plato is has
invented a character who is then tellingthe story about Atlantis, and we should

(39:37):
take it in the same way thatwe would if we were watching a movie
or reading the book, a fictionalbook book where they say, oh,
did you hear about you know whatever, it's it's not the author telling us
that it's real, you know,And we know in Plato's other books he
does make things up. He hasdifferent stories about the origins of the world

(39:57):
and all of this that are youknow, just obviously can't be true.
Um, like, for example,the one where oh this is kind of
funny. I had a comment er, um, you know, say,
you know, argue with me onthis on my YouTube video and uh he
said, uh, and I broughtup this this this case. Well he
what about this myth about the originsof the sexes where it used to be

(40:22):
that people had like four arms andfour legs and two heads, you know,
and that uh they were one.They were all genders combined, but
then they got chopped in half andthat's how you get your your males and
your females, you know. Andthey were explaining that to be like that
that is real and you should Yeah, I was. I was telling I

(40:42):
was telling this person that se obviouslycan't be real. And then he came
back and said, well, Ibelieve that too, and not in those
exact words, but the earth isflat. I want four arms too.
I feel like you believe that.I really couldn't. I couldn't help.
Don't you feel like we you know, if that the case, and like
evolution at some point gave us fourarms and four legs, and then some

(41:04):
horrible chromosomal detachment event separated us fromthose arms. God, that next generation
would probably feels so whacked, likea cool two arms bro. Yeah,
have fun getting a half of whatyou're gonna do today done. You only
get half the bracelets. Sorry.And that comes from another character in the
story, a different story called andthat was Aristophanes, who was a comedian,

(41:28):
but anyway, he the realist.Aristophanes was, And that's but his
explanation was, And the reason whyyou're looking for your other half, and
the reason why some people are heterosexualand some people are homosexual is because when
they were together, they either werehad two males together, or a male
and a female together, or afemale and a female. And that's why,

(41:50):
you know. But obviously Plato didn'treally believe that. Another thing about
the Atlantis story that Critius tells is, unlike, say, for example,
a Trojan War our legend which everybodyknew it was a common view, Plato
didn't make that up. But whenpeople talk about the Trojan War in Greek
literature, they just assume you knowabout it, you know, they like

(42:10):
mentioned character, oh you know who, Mentalis was you know about Aggamon man,
They don't really explain it, buthere in this Critis explains like as
if you never heard about this before. He's describing the Atlanta story. It's
like as if you'd never heard aboutit before, which is an indication to
me anyway, that this is thefirst time it's appearing in print. Okay,

(42:30):
okay. So is it pretty commonthen, though, for him to
weave in like historical figures and historicalcharacters into his bodies of work. That's
why we see Solon, who weknow as an actual person from history who
actually did spend time in Egypt.Is that's in my tracking you correctly?
There? Yes, right, Sojust like the real Aristophanes probably didn't tell
her less story about finding your otherhalf, He just put it into Aristophanie's

(42:54):
mouth. So here he's probably puttingit the words into Critius's mouth the same
way any the same thing that doeswith Socrates and so forth. He uses
real people as characters in addition probablyto some fictional characters too, sure,
just to make it more interesting,you know, um, And so yeah,
that's just kind of a technique.So I don't think we should take

(43:14):
him that seriously, although I hateto do that because it would be really
cool if there was an Atlanta right, Right, So let's talk about Atlantis,
right, So, like that storyspecifically, when when when you're looking
at it, whether it's through Plato'swork or just you know, different mentions
of it throughout history, are youlooking at that as like straight up myth
that has just been romanticized and toto build on your previous point about the

(43:35):
game of telephone, right, it'sjust being continuously growing and evolving and and
becoming more magical. Or is itpossible that at some point there was a
kernel of truth under the hood hereand that it's referring to an actual lost
ancient civilization. Is it possible thatthat sites the sites across the globe like
go Backley Teppi are evidence potential evidenceof of you know, Atlantean refugees so

(43:58):
to speak, being displaced and rebootingcivilization. What's your what's your take on
all those things, doctor Miano?Well, I mean as far as go
Beckley, Tapley's, Tuppy's Concerned andand other places. Um, how would
you tell if the founders of thatplace were from Atlantis? We don't really
know what was in Atlantis. Wedon't have any artifacts from Atlantis that we

(44:21):
could say, Okay, so here'ssome Atlantean artifacts, So let's compare it
with go Beckley Tappy and see ifthere's any similarity. We can't do that,
So just to say that is justkind of just pulling it out of
a hat. You know, it'snot really, there's no there's no real
basis for it. I think wherea lot of people make that connection is
the younger driest impact events and thenalso that date, so the timing,
yeah, and that that date coincideswith the date that we get from Plato's

(44:44):
as far as when Atlantis fell.It's like a lot of people see that
is you know, very very likeconvenient. I almost rite where it's like,
okay, these line up here.So if these younger driest impact events
or what created this massive flood,if that there was a worldwide flood,
you know, the refugees, thepeople that that came out of that event

(45:04):
were displaced and at some point they'regoing to land somewhere and have to reboot
civilization. And so I think that'swhy a lot of people that are subscribing
to the Atlantis story as being factualpoint to sites like Go Buckley Teppi and
say, Okay, is this reallywhat we're seeing here? But I completely
understand with what you're saying about.Okay, we don't have any like source
materials to compare it to, right. Yeah. Another thing to keep in

(45:27):
mind is that that's you know,at that time, Uh, there are
like we're a lot. There's alot of different places that were being inhabited
around the world that scholars have identified, including some pretty like there's some large
Neolithic sites, might like Chattahoyak orJericho, um, places like that.
I'm ghazal h for sure. Imean they might not have the impressive little

(45:52):
uh you know steelers that Go BuckleyTappy has, But Go Buckley Teppi isn't
like I mean, it's really cool. It's a great site, but it
isn't like you're not looking at likea massive city or something like that.
As far as we can tell,there's not like big walls around it or
towers or anything like that. Um, it's within the realm of possibility that

(46:14):
the locals of the area could havemade a place like that that it was
was it was wasin their technical technologicalknow how in the Neolithic period. To
construct a site like that, there'snothing like shocking about it. It's you
know, it's a it's an impressivesite. Uh, and it has added
to our knowledge greatly of that period. But there's nothing in there that we're
like, oh, this is impossible. The people of this area could never

(46:37):
have made this, would they dothis? Sure? Sure? Yeah?
So what about Atlanta specifically, then, doctor Miana, Like, when when
you hear references to that in yourmind? Is that is that mythological references?
Is it, you know, notan actual ancient law civilization that's kind
of been forgotten from humanity's chronology.Um, Like, what's what's your take
on that? Unpack that for usif you could. I hate to be

(46:59):
so skeptical, but I'm of theopinion that there wasn't an Atlantis at all.
Ye. I will say this though, that after Plato wrote that it
fascinated people even in the ancient world, and there was a tendency even among
them to search for it, Like, well, maybe Plato was right,
you know, And I do thinkthat people may have looked for it and

(47:22):
found places and and made descriptions ofit that get added to the legend,
you know, I can picture witha lot of stories. You know.
You just imagine like a father andson walking along the road and seeing some
ancient ruins on the side of theroad and Daddy, what's that you know?

(47:43):
Oh, well, oh you neverheard about the giants that used to
live here or whatever it might be, and the dad would tell them the
story, you know. But Ithink a lot of it is just based
on what they found and what theysaw, and then they made up stories
about what it could be. Andthat's how a lot of these stories get
obligated. Sure, so kind ofone of the last things I want to
I want to rip through with youtoday, which we've enjoyed the hell out

(48:06):
of this conversation, thank you somuch, is like just the Great Pyramids
of Giza. Okay, So there'sbeen loads of debate around their construction,
their purpose, the epoch in whichthey were erected. One issue that many
people out of the wild have regardingthe Great Pyramid is that it was actually
a tomb, but that there's itcouldn't be a tomb, right because there's

(48:27):
a lack of typical characteristics of tombfound within the Great Pyramid. Additionally,
the whole Cartouche depackle of Colonel Vicethat that whole thing is sketchy at best.
Um. You know, so there'ssome definitely some interesting takes on just
like what its purpose was, Whatwere we really looking at here? Is
their ancient technology at play? Orwas this thing really just a burial chamber?

(48:49):
And so kind of walk us throughyour work surrounding this site and your
take on the theories that challenge thestance of the Great Pyramid having served as
a tomb. Okay, yeah,well, first of all, with with
this claim that oh, it doesn'thave the characteristic of tombs, well,
what are the characteristics of tombs?Um? Well, I guess the main

(49:10):
characteristic would have to be that haveto be a body in there, and
obviously there wasn't. There isn't inany of the tombs pretty much. But
there is a sarcophagus, I mean, and we recognize it as a sarcophagus.
It looks just like a starcophagus.Um. So, and I know
that a lot of people say,well, maybe they just reused it,

(49:30):
you know, maybe they turned itinto a tomb later. Yeah. Yeah,
because there's a lot of pyramids,I mean, there's a lot of
pyramids now Akam's razor would say that, Okay, you've got all these pyramids,
and we know a bunch of themmore tombs. It just would make
sense, you know, pyramids aretombs um and then you the burden of

(49:53):
proof would be on people who wouldsay, well, this particular pyramid is
completely different from all the other pyramids. Well why why is it completely different?
Well, it doesn't have any writingon the inside or art. Well,
there are other pyramids that don't havethat either, not the Great Pyramids,
not the only one. The earlypyramids from the fourth dynasty don't have

(50:15):
writing on the walls, they don'thave hieroglyphics inside or our art. So
they just didn't do it at thattime. I mean, there's nothing.
I mean, it's not like youcan't use it as a clue if you
have other pyramids that do it,you know, and another one you might
hear is well, I mean,I don't know, I don't know if

(50:37):
you've heard this one, but alot of people can't think it's just too
fast that they could have built agreat pyramid like that. It was just
they didn't have the tech. Theancient Egyptians, you know, those those
dirty primitive Egyptians. They couldn't doanything, and so that's kind of how
they talk about them like that,it's impossible they could not have possibly done
that. And yet we can see, you know, the evolution of the

(51:00):
pyramid design over time, from thestep pyramid of Joseph in the Third dynasty
to the failed pyramid attempts of Snephrewin the early fourth dynasty, the bent
pyramid, for example, the oneamy doom, it's fallen apart. And
then finally he gets it right withthe red pyramid, which is at an
angle that makes it easier to makea pyramid, but at least it's the

(51:21):
first really good smooth sided pyramid.And then you know, a generation later
you start to have the ones atGiza. You can see how they gradually
learned how to build a pyramid,and yeah, it took Some people think
a few decades is too short ofa time. I don't. I think
I actually have more than a fewdecades. But I mean, I don't

(51:44):
know, maybe five hundred years,but it's a fairly long time. I'm
looking at how much technology has evolvedin the last hundred years here, you
know, I mean even the lasttwo three years, right, I mean,
it's just it's it's crazy. Yeah. So yeah, I mean I
don't see any reason to doubt it. You might say, well, well,

(52:05):
you know, Cufu's name was probablyforged. Maybe. I saw a
great video by ancient architects by theway, on this topic, and it
was pointed out, which is agood point, that the name of Cufu
on that graffiti, even though it'snot official you know, hieroglyphics, the
name of Coufu on there is hisfull name, which at the time of

(52:28):
how advice was not known, right, So how would he be able to
forge it if he didn't know thefull name of Cufu, you know.
So that's something to keep in mindas well. Sure, for sure.
So and but one other thing,this pyramid within I guess it would be
within a century after it was built, was called the aket Coufu. It

(52:52):
was named after Kufu. And wehave the Diary of Mirror, a document
we found fairly recently which talks aboutthem taking building materials to the ocket Cufu.
All right, so um, Imean I guess you could argue,
well Coufu appropriated it, okay,but it definitely was used by kufu Um.

(53:13):
Whether he built it or not,Okay, you can argue with me,
but it was definitely Cufu's pyramid.Uh so. Yeah. So when
you look at like the passageways andwithin within the Great Periods specifically, or
within the Great Pyramids specifically, youknow, and we see their alignment to
certain celestial bodies and whatnot, Like, what do you think is happening under

(53:34):
the hood here? Is that theEgyptians just being you know, very much
in tune with the astronomical implications andthe components that fit within their frameworks mythologically
or like, have you spent muchtime looking at those and contemplating those,
researching those, What's what's your takeon on those chambers and those shafts.
My view on the shafts is umthat you know, when you can change

(54:01):
the time period so that they lineup with certain celestial bodies, you're kind
of cheating a little bit, youknow what I'm saying. So it's like,
oh, you know, you knowthe shaft was pointing to you know,
whatever constellation at this particular time period, isn't it amazing? Well,
that's because you've chose a time periodwhere it would line up so I think

(54:22):
there's a lot of room for fudgingthere. The fact is they were both
plugged up. I mean they werecovered over that. You you know,
there was no end, you know, like in other words, they don't
go to the outside of the pyramid. So my thinking is that they were
probably just for air while they werebuilding it, and then after when they
were done, they covered them up. Yeah, that seems to me the

(54:44):
most logical explanation for them. Sure. And you know, we typically within
the conversations that we've had on theshow, we go down a lot of
rabbit holes, and you know,we don't always have the opportunity to speak
with somebody that has such a vastunderstanding and academic background within the sites and
these topics. And so one questionthat I have for you has to relate
to just like resonant frequencies uh andand different you know, energy patterns found

(55:09):
across the globe at different megalithic sites. Um. You know, there's there's
been a ton of research going downin the space of just like sound in
general and the implications that it hasto you know, whether it's making construction
more more, more possible, moreefficient, um and and a lot of
spaces in that in that arena thatwe're only really starting to understand. Is

(55:31):
it, in your mind like coincidentalthat that is a thing that people are
pointing to at the Great Pyramids specifically? Um, you know, I know,
I know a lot of people outthere look at the Great Pyramid as
being like a like an ancient powerplant. For example, when you're doing
your research and you come across thatstuff like what what where do you?
Where does your mind go? Whatare you looking at there? Well?

(55:53):
I haven't. I haven't done aton of research on that particular subject,
except with regard to the claim thatthe Great Pyramid sits at a spot on
the Earth where I like the magneticforces of the Earth out of the strongest
or something like that. I wasunable to find any scientific study to confirm

(56:15):
that. So I'm not even surewhere that argument originated because I couldn't find
any science to back it up.Interesting. If someone could show me a
source on this, I would loveto look at it. But that's something
I haven't been able to confirm.And I think that you've given the audience
just a lot of like solid thingsto contemplate, think about, and work

(56:36):
backwards and I think a lot ofit ultimately points to. Like if I
were to sum up today's conversation inone word, I think it would be
context, right, like whether we'relooking at you know, the ancient texts
of of Sumeria, Mesopotamia, youknow, like the Assyrian text all the
things, or we're looking at theconstruction of the Great Pyramid and where it
sits as it relates to energy acrossthe globe, like solid sources, solid

(57:01):
citations, kind of following the breadcrumbbackwards to make sure that that we're all
pointing at the same source. Sourceof truth is paramount, right, Is
that is that's a solid yes,parting an understanding takeaway for today, Absolutely
awesome. Yeah, And we weacademics, are not the enemy. Sure.
And also I just let everyone know, um uh, I have never

(57:24):
been asked any at any time inmy career to hide any information from anybody.
You know, we're we're we're totallyfree to study whatever we want,
to come up with, whatever theorieswe want. Um we have complete academic
freedom to research and study and hypothesize. And that's actually encouraged greatly in our

(57:47):
field. So it's not like there'ssome kind of big brother telling us you're
not allowed to do that, oryou know you're not allowed to say that.
I've never experienced that before. It'sgood to know. Good. You
know, so so many things tothink about today. Really appreciate you digging
deep with a lot of these things. We know you have the World of
Antiquity on YouTube, but what aresome of the other things you're working on,

(58:07):
and how can people find the restof your work online? Well,
Like as I mentioned at the beginning, my primary work right now is trying
to get my first online course togetherand it's going to be by the Way
on Ancient Egypt. So I'm goingto do a two part series on that
where I just delve very deeply intoEgyptian history from the beginnings all the way

(58:31):
up through the end of the wellup to Roman times. I probably have
to Cleopatra or something like that,and I think that will be a lot
of fun. So let look forthat in twenty twenty. In the meantime,
yes, on my Twitter account,which is doctor David Mihano, you
can find I usually have archaeology newsevery day, things that are discovered.
If you're interested in new discoveries andwhat archaeologists are finding I'm usually posting about

(58:54):
that. You can also find mea doctor David Mihano on Facebook and of
course my big big place to goI have, well, I have my
website David Miano dot net. ButI would say YouTube is where I would
encourage you to go. The mostworld of antiquity is the name of the
YouTube channel and uh and you couldalso search for my name. I'm sure

(59:15):
it will come up. I coulduse subscribers. I'm trying to get to
a thousand so I can start runningads for sure, for sure, and
we'll make sure that we link backif you If you're listening to to this
episode on you know, Spotify,iTunes, Google Play, whatever, make
sure that you hop over to lostdash Origins dot com, forward slash media,
hop into this episode's page, andthen from there you'll be able to

(59:36):
just scoop link straight to the YouTubechannel and to doctor Miano's website all the
things from there. So listen,Doctor Meano. This conversation was awesome.
CQ and I had a blast.We really enjoyed Pick entertain Thank you so
much for for carving an hour outfor us today. This was this was
rad. We appreciate it. Itwas a lot of fun. Thanks for
having me, guys, anytime yoube well all right, well, guys,

(01:00:00):
he's a doctor, listen to him. I think one of the coolest
things about this show is that weget to speak with people who don't fundamentally
just like don't agree with each otheron all the things they think, and
in many instances, more so thananything, just giving us one more perspective,
even if it kind of challenges somethingyou believed for a long time.
Yeah, I feel like that's whatthis show is all about. Yeah,

(01:00:22):
very refreshing. Yeah, it wascool and I really enjoyed, like just
a change of pace, I guessif that makes sense, you know,
like it's we explore a lot ofalternative schools of thought on the show,
and I don't know, it kindof felt nice but also a little weird.
I mean, by the same token, we have a bunch of people
who come on here and don't reallyhave that alternative of a take on things.

(01:00:43):
They're just, you know, prettydiligent researchers in their own right.
It's just there are certain third railtopics like on a Knaki, there are
certain topics like Atlantis that are particularlydivisive in this You know world broader world
of alternative search. I think it'sinteresting to see where those lines are versus
somebody just being like, hey,I've seen giant skeletons. Yeah, they

(01:01:06):
were big, they were really big. People here, something's going on right,
or hey, there are these stones. They're older than you think.
Yeah, and in some instances it'slike maybe they are just as a yeah.
And so if you enjoy the conversation, I would encourage all of you
to hop over to YouTube check outthe World of Antiquity his channel. You
guys will dig it. It's gotsome cool stuff on there. And you

(01:01:27):
know what, there's stuff on therethat you guys, let's say, don't
agree with m let us know,throw a note in our bucket and we'll
connect you with doctor Miana and youguys can hash it out. You know,
Katy Perry Taylor Swift style? DidI do that right? I think
right? You are so hip.I don't know, friend, be proud
fiance now, she'll be proud ofme, though'd be proud of me,
should be proud of me. Nailedit. So next week, dude,

(01:01:52):
check this out. We have TomCarry coming out of the show. Not
to be confused with the younger brotherof Jim. But he did it.
Yeah, it made it. Putit in there, put it in there.
No, but seriously, Tom,which in his PhD and anthropology from
the University of Toronto. He's anAir Force veteran and he's held a top
secret CRYPTO clearance. Um. He'salso been a mutual UFO network or move

(01:02:16):
on for our friends who like,um, you know what it was called.
There was I was gonna say monogram, but that's out there. Appreciated
that joke. None of that wascorrect. Um, but I think monograms
are what people get when they're likereally concerned someone's going to use their bath

(01:02:37):
throbe, you know, like,no, this is the old X is
not yours. Interesting? Interesting,I see a practical application for that indeed.
Anyways, Um so yeah, hewas a mouf On state Section director
for the Southeastern Pennsylvania Chapter from nineteeneighty six to two thousand and one.

(01:02:59):
UM. And he has co authoredseveral books with his partner in crime,
Donald Schmidt, Who's not gonna beable to join us on the call,
but we're gonna get him down theroad. Um. Some of those books
include UFO Secrets Inside Right Patterson witnessto Roswell, Children of Roswell, the
Roswell Incident, and so we're basicallygoing to be talking a lot about Clappendim
Cheeks aliens people. So we're gonnabe discussing their latest book, The UFO

(01:03:22):
Secrets Inside Right Patterson, the eventsthat began at Roswell at Area fifty one
but ended at Right Patterson, whichis an ultra top secret Air Force base
in Ohio. So psyched to getinto it. And we're also going to
rip through Hanger eighteen if you've notjumped down that rabbit hole, but that
yeah, you're you're gonna have agood time. It's a lot of fun.
So aliens, guys, aliens straightup, so make sure that you

(01:03:45):
guys smash the lot of subscribe button. Join us next week as we connect
with Tom Carey to talk about allthings aliens, and until then, I'm
Andrew. We challenge you to questioneverything. Number number Never don