S03E21 - Brien Foerster // The Paracas Skulls

On today's episode of Lost Origins, Andrew and CK are able to complete a long-standing goal of the podcast - the two link up with Brien Foerster. A legend in the fields of alternative thought, the Paracas Skulls, lost ancient technologies, Gobekli Tepe, and more, Foerster is a wealth of knowledge. The conversation covers a massive amount of ground and the three discuss droves of enigmatic mysteries from around the globe.

Brien Foerster was born in Rochester, Minnesota, U.S.A. but grew up on the west coast of Canada. At age 11, he became fascinated with the Native art of the Haida native people and began carving totem poles, and other related art forms, learning from Native teachers. After completing an Honours Bachelor Of Science degree, Brien decided to take up carving and sculpture full time, at the age of 25. This included the creation of 13 full-size totem poles, dugout canoes, masks, bowls, boxes, and other Native style works. In 1995 he moved to Maui, Hawaii, and was hired as assistant project manager for the building of the 62-foot double-hull sailing canoe (ancestor of the modern-day catamaran ) Mo’okiha O Pi’ilani ( Sacred Lizard That Pierces The Heavens. ) This project lasted 2 years. There, having learned how to make Hawaiian outrigger canoe paddles from master carver Keola Sequiera, he started an online outrigger paddle business, which flourished internationally.

Peru became his next major area of interest. The study of the Inca culture led to his writing a book, A Brief History Of The Incas. He has become an authority on the megalithic works of South America and the perplexing ancient Elongated Headed people of the area and divides his time between Paracas and Cusco, Peru.

Episode Transcript

(00:36):
Oh it's Monday. Well it's goodpeople, and that means that it is
a new episode day here Lost Origins. So here we go, Here we
go people. Hopefully you are ina part of the world unaffected by various
political unrest and viral spreads, andyou are there ready to rock a new

(00:57):
awesome week. And I hope yougot my tie in your hand right now
too, my time pinola something withan umbrella, and you guys are ready
to rot. And one could argueyou could put an umbrella in any alcoholic
beverage you could or not them.It'd be a little weird to in a
lot of them. But sure,I feel like the placement of that umbrella
immediately makes everybody around you go,oh okay, this person's chilling like your

(01:19):
style. It's a way to beYeah, you do you good and weak
people. Man, that almost gotdark fast. Yeah. I wish we
could just put an umbrella in allof the things, like in the great
glass of life that we're drinking rightnow. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully Lost
Origins can be that umbrella for you. Let me try to Let me try

(01:40):
throw an umbrella into your glass realquick. SKA. I know you like
to read and uh, I knowyou're a studious human, um man.
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out some rat stuff to read.But if you're one of the folks out
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(02:21):
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(03:05):
of like, hey, book,but that that's just Rachel. But the
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that just do what they do toget stuff in your hand, like a
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(03:30):
They love us, they love you, they love this entire genre.
Al Atom Intertraditions dot Com straight up, and speaking of love, we got
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ever said love nugget on the show. Uh, great courses. Plus you
guys, I know we've been talkingabout this for god almost month and a
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(03:51):
of the coolest things that we've evergotten to talk about, like for real,
you know, we we don't.I mean, I think people who've
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probably one of the most I don'tknow, gift that keeps on giving kind
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we've looked at a couple in thepast. This week's is big History,
the Big Bang, life on Earth, and the rise of humanity. So
like those topics, it's not asmall topical area and something that I could

(04:35):
imagine be really interesting to everybody who'slistening to this right now. I mean,
if you're a fan of the waywe kicked off season three and I
know several of you were because ofthe dms that we got, the emails
that we've got onnot doctor Brian Keating, that guy who such a beast that
is right up his alley. Andif you enjoyed that conversation, I know

(04:56):
that you'll enjoy this. Also.If you're a fan of Andrew collins work
and you talk about the any humanity, the origins of humanity and civilization,
this speaks to that as well.So could not recommend it more. If
you jump over to the Great Coursesplus dot com slash Lost origins all one
word, you don't even need acup on code. It's twenty twenty.
It's all about, you know,just dynamic permit links and whatnot. Yeah,

(05:17):
just jump in there and you guys, three months unlimited access, thirty
bucks, ten bucks a month.Just do it. It's like the cheapest
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there's probably some issue. And beforeI refund your money. I'll sit

(05:41):
and speak with you about what youdidn't like, and we'll pass it along
the great courses plus and then andonly then will I ask you to take
the Baker's choice dealer's choice, andI'll assign you another course, and if
you don't like that one, Iwill refund your money. Yeah, I'd
said it right here. I'm tellingpeople, I'm so impressed right now.
Yeah that was yah h dude,Wow, let's do it. So what

(06:02):
do we have going on, notjust in our awesome world but on the
show this week? So let metell you. Since season one, there's
been a list of names that liveson my computer of people that I would
one thousand percent love to pick thebrain of That list was built before you
came into this, into this,into the scene, and before c k

(06:26):
e the b c k Ero that'sfun. Brian Forrester, though, is
a name that's on that list fromday one. This guy such a just
cool, like charismatic guy. Justhe's always been really interesting to me.
His passion for like just South Americain general, and that's always been had
a weird magnet effect on me.Like Peru, Bolivia, all of the

(06:46):
just cultures and ancient structures down therehave always just and this guy brain has
a big old brain. And notbecause he is trying to do his greatest
impression of some of the elongated skullheaded people of South America that he studies
the Paracus skulls, but because hespent so much time studying megalithic works of
South America. Yeah, this guyhas written books about the subject, more

(07:11):
than thirty at this point, abig deal. More than thirty books about
this subject. Recently completed his researchendevorid Go Beckley Tepe. Something you know
that we know is a big interestto a lot of people out there.
We've talked about it a lot onthe show. Really multifaceted expert, Yeah,
straight up. And the Paracas skullsis always has always been a topic
that I've really wanted us to ripthrough on the show. Such a weird

(07:33):
but enigmatic and amazing and just intriguingrabbit hole and just mystery in itself.
And today we get to spend timepicking the brain of the world's foremost expert
on the skulls. I mean,this guy lives in Peru just so he
can be there and spend this muchtime studying the things and it's it's wild.

(07:53):
Yeah, so we're in a ripthrough that. Definitely want to make
sure we pick his brain on hisrecent excavator trip over to to go Beckley
Teppi, but then just lost ancienttechnologies in general. This guy well versed
in that topic as well, SoI love it. So Psyche, let
me get out the skype call thing. Let's get them on the horn.
Here we go. All right,Brian Forrest are good afternoon, and welcome

(08:22):
to Lost Origins. Holy hell,c K and I have been looking forward
to this conversation for a very longtime. You are one of the researchers
and authors that we've really been justitching to get on the show and pick
your brain. So thank you Brianfor carbon time for us today. Oh
it's my pleasure. Thank you.So this is the first time you've ever
been on the show, which issuper exciting. And you know, anytime

(08:43):
we have a guest come on theshow for the first time, we always
like to set the stage with thathistory lesson right for the few individuals in
our audience who maybe have not encounteredyour work in the wild, maybe they're
not up to speed with your workon the Faraca skulls, and you know
all the things around the globe thatyou're exploring on the daily. Let's do
a little history lesson, right,who is Brian Forrester or what's your background?

(09:05):
What's the main focus of your work? That No, that's a loaded
question, and like what's just kindof like got you to this moment today?
If you could walk us through that, that would be awesome. Okay,
Well, I was born in theUS, but grew up in Canada,
and I've lived in both countries onand off. My fascination with ancient
enigmas began when I was a child. Probably the Sphinx was the first ancient

(09:31):
object that drew Anthe Great Pyramids drewmy fascination, and over the course of
time, I've traveled to about ahundred countries and major my major focuses are
basically the elongated skull phenomenon and alsoevidence of advanced ancient technology at different locations

(09:54):
around the world, and the Brocasskulls. We are to come back to
that here and just a minute.I mean, that's an enigma that I've
been following for a long time.Your work, specifically, I'm really excited
just to kind of get the currentstate of things in our audience desition forward
as well. When I was preparingfor today's conversation, when c K and

(10:16):
I was sitting down trying to figureout, Okay, you know, we
got an hour with Brian, whatthe hell are we going to talk to
him about? Because you mean,your work is so expansive, and every
time I felt like I had likefinally tallied up all of the books that
you have put out into the wild, I realized that there was this like
whole other section of the Internet thatI wasn't aware of, and it just
continued to take me down another rabbithole. So, like, just to

(10:39):
clarify, Brian, how many bookshave you authored and published about ancient enigmas?
You know, all of the workthat you're focused on. Thirty seven
thirty seven. That's intense, that'samazing. Well, we really appreciate just
like the commitment to exploring all ofthese questions and what you're doing for you

(11:03):
know, just the betterment of understandingwhat happened in our history. That's huge.
So we appreciate that. So,oh, my pleasure. All right,
So let's kind of set some expectationsfor today, right, So we
are going to attempt to cover aton of ground. Right, Like I
said, I know we only havea limited amount of time with you,
We're gonna try to squeeze as muchin as we possibly can. So let's

(11:24):
start with your time in South America, right. I know that you have
spent years pouring over these elongated skulls. I'd love for you to hit us
with an overview of the Paraca skulls. Maybe for our audience members who you
know, are not super familiar withthat ancient mystery, that enigma, maybe
they haven't followed it super closely.So maybe just like the overview of that,

(11:46):
and then once we get through that, maybe explain the recent DNA testing
that was completed on the skulls andthe Eurasia connection between those findings. Okay,
sure, Well, growing up Iwould occasionally see on TV they would
have depictions of these elongated skulls,usually once found in South America. And

(12:09):
so about probably ten or twelve yearsago, I stumbled across this little museum
in a little town called Paracas onthe coast of Peru, and they're inside
there was a mummified human head thatwas larger than normal, very cone shaped,
and so I very rapidly developed arelationship with the curator of the museum,

(12:33):
senior In Navarro, and over thecourse of time I became his assistant
director. So we began the process, you know, I asked him all
the questions I could about them.He gave me a standard history, but
since I come from a medical scientificbackground, I wanted to start to get
more evidence from a sign scientific basison what I was looking at. And

(12:58):
so, yeah, that's been tenor twelve years so far, and we're
you know, still studying them upto this day. And so recently there
were some DNA tests that were completedon the skulls themselves, and you actually
released a book about it as well. If you could just kind of walk
us through what was this DNA testing, What was the focus of it,

(13:20):
what was it that you were tryingto you know, confirm or disprove,
and what was the outcome of it. What data did we acquire to get
us any closer to understanding this thisancient phenomena. Okay, well, up
to now, we've we've tested nineteenof the Paracas skulls, and the first

(13:45):
test that was done didn't show muchdata whatsoever. But then we had a
major study of seventeen of them.And so because these skulls are two thousand,
two three thousand years old, it'svery difficult to get DNA from them
because DNA degrades as soon as youdie more or less. So of course

(14:07):
of two thousand and three thousand yearsit's very difficult to get data. But
we were able to get the mitochondrialDNA, which is the mother's side of
the family from let's see sixteen,No, fifteen of them. Only two
of those fifteen showed Native American heritage. Two of them the DNA was too

(14:31):
degraded. But with the other ones, they all turned out to have one
commonality, and that was the areaaround the Black Sea of Eurasia. And
so when when you guys see datalike that, like where does your mind
go? Where does your gut go? Brian? Because there's so many different

(14:52):
theories out there, right, Imean, like if you if you turn
on History Channel and you see anepisode of ancient Aliens, they're going to
have a very specific theory that they'regoing to throw at you. If you
talk to you know, an anthropologist, you know, or somebody that's going
to be more on the academic sideof it. They're going to have,
you know, a theory or alogical way of walking you through what you're

(15:15):
looking at there based on the amountof time that you have invested in understanding
what these skulls are and what itmeans for humanity. Like, what conclusions
are are you like starting to cometo if you haven't arrived at one already,
Well, what path are you goingdown right now at this? Well,
basically, I just look at whatthe scientific evidence is telling us,

(15:37):
and then you have to go fromthere. So, since only two of
the skulls showed Native American maternal ancestryautomatically, that tells you that these people
came from somewhere else. And becauseit's human DNA, you have to admit
that these are not aliens. Theyhave to be humans of some kind.

(15:58):
So then when you look at thelist of the different Hapelo groups that we
encountered, which were six or seven, the commonality is a location around the
Crimea area of the Black Sea.And then when you look up photographs of
ancient skulls from that area, youfind out that the largest skulls elongated skulls
in the world are either located inParakas in the coast of Peru or in

(16:25):
the Crimea area of eur Asia.So that gives you quite probable genetic connection.
So from that you have to say, well, they must have migrated
from the Black Sea to come tothe coast to Peru. Sure, And
so like, what's the mainstream levelof acceptance? You know, anytime a
new groundbreaking theory or piece of datais presented, that kind of goes against

(16:52):
you know, the norm I supposeor the accepted chronology of a certain epoch
of history, especially one that's goingto take the theory of isolationism and throw
it into a melting pot of diffusionism. Like, what what kind of acceptance
of you have you been able toexperience as you've been presenting your findings in
the wild. Well, from theacademic community, there's been basically no response

(17:17):
whatsoever. I did make YouTube videosabout the major testing that we did,
and they've been viewed two million times. So unfortunately, also, what we
did for that main study, whatwe had to do is we had to
have a Peruvian archeologist as the leaderof the team, which we were able

(17:38):
to find, but it took usthree years before we were able to be
given permission to do the DNA testingand then when presented the results, he
simply stated that there must have beencontamination and that is not the case.
So that's basically where we are.But what's also important is the orphological or

(18:00):
physical differences between the first of theParacus skulls, which are the largest and
most elongated, and compare those withother humans who lived in the area.
What do you mean by that?Can you walk me through that? Well,
since I've been studying this for sucha long time, there's only one

(18:22):
cemetery which is located about half anhour from where I am because I am
in Paracus, and that is thatone cemetery that there's a section of only
twenty acres where the largest elongated skullsin the world have been found. So
those are what we call the naturalshape or the original people, and three

(18:45):
characteristics that distinguish physically their difference froma normal human skulls. There's no sagittal
suture, which is the suture linethat goes down basically from your four forehead
backwards to the back of the skull. It simply doesn't exist. And we've
had thirty to forty foreign medical professionalslook at these and none of them can

(19:08):
explain the lack of the suture.The other thing is there are two holes
in the back of the skull whichare for blood and nerve flow, and
the logic behind that would be becauseof the elongation or elongated head, that
that would be where blood and nerveflow would happen because of the largest,

(19:30):
larger size. And then the otherthing is the forum and magnum, which
is where your vertebral column enters.The bottom of your skull is one inch
farther back than normal, and thathas to be a genetic characteristic. So
this is, like you just said, genetic characteristics. So this is not
in your opinion. I just wantto make sure I'm tracking you correctly.

(19:53):
The elongated skull phenomena. It's notsomething that was being done to people in
their infant seem to emulate a certainyou know, deity or to m you
know, achieve a certain level ofstatus or whatever like this. This is
like an actual genetic anomaly. Isthat correct understanding of this? Yeah,

(20:15):
that's right. And the basic timeprocess is that the original people were born
with elongated heads, and then asthey bred with the local population, so
as to not wind up with geneticdiseases caused by inbreeding. Then the normal
traits of a human skull would gradually, over the course of generations start to

(20:38):
take over. That would make theskulls start to look more and more normal
looking. And that that's when theprocess of the head binding of these noble
people began, a way to distinguishtheir physical look from those of the common
population. Okay, that makes alot of sense. Then Okay, have
you have you done? I'm sureyou have. I know that you've've written

(21:00):
several books like on Egypt for example, and even one Ocnaton himself. So,
like, you know, the theelongated skull phenomena is not one that's
captive to South America either. Imean, if you again, if we
point back to Ocnaton, I meanwe see depictions of him and ancient high
relief carvings that are displaying and withthis characteristic of his skull being elongated.

(21:22):
So like, what's your what's yourtake on this being a global phenomenon?
And you know, based on whereyou go with that, like, what
do you think the bigger implication isthere? Is it just an ancient global
genetic component of humanity that has beenyou know, bred out essentially, or
are we looking at ancient civilizations thatwere capable of diffusionism? Is it a

(21:47):
combination of those. I just Ireally want to get your take on it
because of how much time you've spentwith these. Sure, well, the
only ones as far as I know, that have been genetically tested are the
practice ones, and the only testingthat has been done has been done by
through two laboratories in the US inCanada. So Acadatin is portrayed with an

(22:08):
elongated head, but since and hisdaughters, but since his mummy's never been
found, so we can't automatically say, well, that is what he looked
like. But what we can sayis he's trying to depict something. And
the same thing in the case ofthe Maya and cultures in Melanesia and actually

(22:32):
Stonehenge and Europe and Bulgaria and otherlocations like that, is that the head
binding was done in order to distinguishthe noble classes from the general population.
So it's not necessarily a case thatit all comes from one source. But
as I said before, the largestelongated skulls in the world are either found

(22:55):
in the area of Crimea or Paracasin Peru interesting and just not a curiosity
too. And I'm going super roguehere as far as like our show notes
are concerned. I always find itreally fascinating to find out, like where
does the passion come from? Right, Like the amount of content that I've
I've consumed from you or with youas a like focal point, key player

(23:21):
in the narrative, working on youknow, exploring your work specifically, It
always just fascinates me to find out, like, what's the passion that motivates
you to continue to dig into this? Do you do you have this you
know, underlying feeling that if weare able to parse what's actually happening here,

(23:41):
maybe this KPI or this you know, epiphany for humanity becomes relevant or
accessible, or maybe it unlocks thedoor to this ancient civilization that is lost
long and forgotten. Right, LikeI just I'm just curious, like what's
where, where does your passion stemfrom? Brank It's very very evident anytime
you look at any of your books, videos, all of it. Well,

(24:06):
it's basically the realization that we've beenlied to about about so many different
things with the elongated skulls, allof the academics or any any paper I've
ever read as regards that it's alwaysone percent the result of headbinding, but
they've done no scientific or genetic medicaltesting to back that up, whereas I

(24:30):
have. And then when it comesto the ancient megalithic structures that we find
in different places around the world,we see evidence of machine marks, We
see that the oldest structures are byfar the most complicated, and then over
the course of time, the constructionmethods get worse, and that's not supposed

(24:52):
to be the way it is,right, So it's it's all this basic
ignoring of the facts and cover upof the evidence or attempt to cover up
that basically pisses me off. Yeah, And so that's why I like to
expose it to as many people asI can, because it's part of an
awakening process that our history is farolder and far more fascinating than what we've

(25:17):
been taught. Right. I thinkthat's like the most noble of quests too.
Right, Like we talk about onthis show all the time about how
you know, it's all about justasking the questions, and asking the questions
that maybe some people are either toouncomfortable to ask, they're afraid to ask.
They feel like they can't ask forwhatever reason, whether it's professional or
you know whatever. The undertone isthere. But the world needs more Brian

(25:42):
Forresters out there, asking the questionsand not being afraid to go up against
what the normal accepted status quo is. Right, Yeah, And basically I'm
not you know, I don't feelanymore that I'm going up against any thing.
I'm simply exposing the facts and thedata. And if if academics choose

(26:06):
to ignore it, then the generalpublic is eating it up like hot dogs,
you know they Yeah, people lovethe realization that these ancient things can
actually be explained. They don't haveto be you know, the most commonly
said thing as well, we'll justnever know. It's like if if if
you make a statement like that,then that means you're not looking right right.

(26:27):
Well said so, Brian. Yourecently completed your research venture out of
go Beckley Tepe in Turkey. Um, let's dig into this a little bit
and understand the effort and sort ofstart to focus on the undertaking that you
did while you're out there. Whatwere you setting out to investigate, why
was it important and what have youbeen analyzing or uncovering since then, well,

(26:47):
we basically basically what we did iswe organized a tour of almost all
of the major sites in ancient Turkeyand Go Beckley TEPPI was of course on
the list, sure, and it'sit's very difficult to get a handle on
something if you don't see it physicallyin person, So the difference between a
photograph and walking around the site ismajor. And you imagine and the fact

(27:14):
that they've seemed to have shown thatit's eleven thousand, five hundred years old.
Was built in two stages. Thelarge T shaped pillars appeared to have
been done first and then much inferiorwork was done later. So by physically
examining the site, I wasn't impressedby the actual workmanship, because again my

(27:36):
focus is on looking at ancient machiningmarks and things like that, and the
Go Beckley Tepe site the work isrelatively crude. But there again, there
are so many anomalies from the standardstory that you're given when you're in the
location. They say it was ahunter gatherer culture that did that, and
I think there's no way that's possible, because you had to have incredible organization

(27:57):
to be able to cut the Tshaped blocks, which some estimates are the
big ones are ten tons, arethat they're twenty tons. The quarry is
local, so it's not a questionof you know, they had to have
advanced technology to move the stones fromsome distant site. But it's just the

(28:18):
sheer scale of it is well worthany anybody if you're in Turkey or visiting
Turkey, definitely go and see GoBeckley Teppe. It's also it's not a
one of a kind. I knowyou were going to ask me about another
one of the locations, and Isaw a map when we were at Go
Beckley Teppe that they've mapped at leastten, if not twenty, different ancient

(28:41):
locations that have the T shaped pillars. So it's much more complicated than what
we've been taught. And also onlyabout five percent of the site has been
excavated so far, which is socrazy too, right, Like if we
think about, you know, onlyfive percent of it has been uncovered,
like you don't know what you don'tknow? Right, right? I mean
the amount of insight data and theoriesthat has come out of Pillar forty three

(29:03):
and Enclosure DA alone. Right,if we've been able to pull that much
information off of that one megalith,like I can only I can't help but
wonder, like what else is waitingfor us under the dirt? Oh yeah,
so just out of curiosity when you'reat Go Beckley Teppy, because I
again, I can only imagine whatstanding there is, Like I mean,

(29:26):
I look at pictures of this siteall the time, and to see it
with your own eyeballs, God,it has to be surreal as hell,
I'm sure. So when you're there, though, what experience or structure or
moment like really really resonated with you? Like when you think about your time

(29:47):
at Go Beckley TEPPI, what's thatthe first thing that pops into your mind
is like that that was what madethe trip for me. Do you have
anything like that? Uh? Yeah, Well again, there's a lot of
conflicting stories about it. Some saythat it was borried on purpose, some
say that it's so ancient that itmore or less just filled in over time.
It's the you know, it's it'sThose sites in Turkey are unique for

(30:14):
these T shaped pillars. As faras I can tell, they look like
nothing compared to anything else I've seenin the world. So and the Turks
have adopted go back to the Tapisas a very treasured ancient site. They've
built a giant roof over top ofit. There's a visitors center. Quite
a few people are visiting the sitenow. But I think there has to

(30:37):
be a lot more research done.And why there hasn't been more major excavations,
I really don't understand it. Youknow, if they've only uncovered five
percent, then why aren't they proceedingwith relative haste at excavating the rest of
it? I mean, you wouldthink that there would be a high sense
of urgency, like if we've gotthis thing right here within, you know,

(30:59):
our finger tips or grasp all thethings. Like I don't know,
maybe it's just people like you andI that are just super curious and we
just want to go dig all theshit up right right? But I mean,
and I don't know has Klaus Schmidtbeen like since his passing away?
Is there is there a new personat the helm there like running the show
or is it kind of like allslowing down? Is that part of the

(31:22):
turmoil and in the Middle East rightnow? Like what what did you hear
when you were over there in Turkey? Oh? Well, yeah, Basically
he was the head of the wholething and his death death was very unfortunate.
He was obviously passionate about it.He was the main the main man
behind the whole thing. So yeah, I they're doing some smaller excavations there,

(31:48):
but nothing on the scale of theuncovering of the Go Beckley Teppi that
we know of, and the reasoningbehind that, I'm not sure. To
excavate the other ninety five scent wouldcost an absolute fortune. Maybe maybe cost
is the problem, maybe there's somepolitics behind it as well. Um,

(32:09):
but you do see you ten milesfrom the site, you see billboard after
billboard there of the pride of thelocal people, of of this lost ancient
heritage which they're trying to unravel.So it's yeah, it's one of those
places you go to go hmm,Okay, it's impressive. And there are
lots of other places that we alsovisited in Turkey, some of which I

(32:32):
found actually to be more fascinating thanGo Beckley Tappe. Really walk us through
a couple of those. What whatwhat was fascinating to you, Brian.
Well, there's there's this one siteclose to the Mediterranean which is called Titus's
tunnel, and it's a tunnel thatwas cut into the limestone bedrock, and
it's almost a it's point eight eightmiles long, and the ceiling is between

(32:59):
twenty and thirty high. And againthe standard stories that was done under a
Roman called Titus, and it wasa water aqueduct system. But there's no
way it was done by hand.I mean, this is like walking through
a giant cavern. Yeah, I'mlooking at pictures of this right now.
This is intense. Oh, it'scrazy. Wow. And is that?

(33:19):
Is that? Like the common conceptconsensus is that this thing was just hand
chiseled with animal bone and pieces ofstring or like, what's what's the like
the common mainstream acceptance as to howthis thing was built or what well steel
chisels would have existed during that timebecause we are talking to Roman times,
so you know, say two hundredthree, but it would take thousands upon

(33:44):
thousands of people to do this work. It's just you know, it's it's
simply insane. But our guide,our guide was really good. He was
a turkish Man retired history and archaeologyteacher. But you could see I could
just tell from spend any time withhim that he was completely programmed into the
standard academic story. Yeah. Ididn't bother saying, Okay, how did

(34:07):
they do it, because there's noway he would have an explanation for it.
But I saw it obviously that therehad been a Roman presence. But
it's like many sites, ancient siteswe find in the world. Sure the
Romans were there, or the dynasticEgyptians were there, or the Inca were
there, but they found something andthen altered the shape of it for the

(34:27):
function that they wanted to have itdue during that time. So yeah,
Titus's tunnel still does move water throughit, but it's only a little side
channel that's almost a mere trickle comparedto the massive cavernous system which is almost
a mile long in the bedrock.Man. Yeah, I just can't get
over these pictures. It's so intenseout of curiosity, Brian. I mean,

(34:51):
you'd mentioned there were several sites thatjust like really got the noodle move
and got the gears going, Like, what were a few like one of
the other sites that really stood outto you. Well, another site is
called Hattusha, and that was aHittite empire that was their their capital,
and say the name of it onemore time for me Hattusha Hatusha okay,

(35:12):
cool, it's actually spelled at Hatusa, but they pronounced at Hattushaka. And
of course again you know this isa Hittite site. We went and went,
oh, okay, but once againwe saw two different levels of construction.
We saw people stacking stones on topof one another, which ain't like
anybody could do. But then wesaw very tight fitting polygonal stone work where

(35:35):
the stones originally would have fit togetheralmost perfectly without mortar or clay or cement
or anything like that. As well, we saw between fifty and one hundred
circular drill holes cor drill holes inthe stone, which could not have been
modern because of the amount of weathering. It was always the same sized drill
drill bit. And so it's anothersite that is of an ancient megal nature

(36:01):
created using advanced technology. Then therewas likely a cataclysm of some kind that
destroyed it. And then somewhere inthe region of fifteen hundred BC, the
Hittites discovered this ruined megalithic site anddecided to make it their capital. Sure
you using much inferior technology. Ican't help but look at these pictures though.

(36:22):
Brian and immediately my brain goes tosaxe Huamman. Rights, yea,
not apples to apples obviously, butlike, there's some stones here, like
you talked about the pot of polygonalstones. Like these things are fitting together.
It's it's almost eerie how much itreminds me of saxe Huamman. Actually,
that's that's crazy. Yeah. Wellwe also saw it, like most

(36:43):
of the site is limestone, butthe center core, and this is the
common theme that you find at theseancient sites, the center core was actually
made of granite. And the granitewas not local. It had to be
brought I think from Fesus, whichis somewhere in the region of two hundred
miles away as far as I canremember. And we saw circular saw marks

(37:04):
and also straight saw marks. Andwe're not talking modern tools, we're talking
very weathered stone. So again thepresence of advanced technology from the distant past.
Yeah, this is so cool.Okay, so let's let's go back
to go Beckley TEPPI real quick,Brian, I'm sorry to like jump all
over the place. Like I said, I'm just sure my brain's gone a
mile a minute right now. Soin several conversations that we've had about go

(37:28):
Beckley TEPPI specifically, you know,we've we've been we've been seeing a lot
of stock being invested into the zodiacalimplications of the site and understanding a celestial
mechanic like this. I mean,that's going to require some serious in depth
understanding of you know, our placein the cosmos and all the things.
Essentially, So when you see thissite in person through the lens that you've

(37:51):
developed over you know, decades ofdoing this kind of investigative work, what
is your research point to as thepurpose of go Backley Teppy. I know
that's a loaded question, but Imean, have you started contemplating that and
kind of identifying a path that makesthe most sense to continue down? Yeah,

(38:12):
well, I think it was.You know, everyone is calling it
a ceremonial site, and everybody callseveryone calls everything a ceremonial site. But
you know, get down to thefiner points of what kind of ceremony are
you talking about? Since it wasoriginally constructed supposedly eleven thousand, five hundred
years ago, which was just atthe end of the massive series of global

(38:32):
cataclysms that occurred, I think itwas definitely. It definitely had a solar
lunar celestial function in terms of alignments. And I think it also tells us
because it's so complicated and would haveto have taken a large crew to build.

(38:53):
There's no way that hunter gatherers wouldhave made it. It had to
have been a settled society that hadagricult culture and you know, strong social
development. So that point in itself, if it's true, pushes back the
time of domestication to you know,eleven thousand, five hundred years ago and

(39:13):
not the six thousand years that ingeneral were taught. So maybe on some
level that's why some academics don't reallywant to look at Gobeckley Teppe because it
shatters the historical record, and nowthat it has some radiocarbon evidence that it's
its origins began eleven thousand, fivehundred years ago, that they just don't

(39:35):
want to go there. The samething as you brought up, said woman
in Peru. It's the same thing, you know, just a sense of
scale was way beyond the capacity ofa Bronze Age culture like the Inca.
The Inca obviously found sexy woman andthen they built structures at the same site,
which they did anyway, and sothe again, these are the inconvenient

(39:59):
truths, which shows like this arewonderful too exposed, because you're not going
to get the answers from academia anymore. You're going to get the answers from
people going to these locations, hopefullywith some kind of scientific background to some
degree to be able to analyze,you know, the data that we're able

(40:19):
to get from being physically there.And so I think that that's probably a
really good jumping off point. Thenfor my next question regarding your your work
that's focused on lost ancient technologies ingeneral. Right, you have written several
books on this topic, and thosefocus on many different ancient cultures, separated
by you know, massive expansions asit relates to distance, but then also

(40:40):
sometimes as it relates to just youknow, years and epochs altogether. So
when you refer to lost ancient technologies, Brian almost like a blanket statement,
if you will, what do youmean? Right? I feel like,
you know, one issue is theway that we currently as a society project
our technology onto the ancients, andwe feel like, okay, well,

(41:04):
if you don't have you know thisapproach to manufacturing or fabrication, or you
don't have an iPhone, you're dumberthan I am, right, But in
my mind, I think that's superdangerous because just because the technology standards that
we currently have and subscribe to andwe take for granted, doesn't mean that
there's not another trunk of you know, technological advancement that maybe we're not privy

(41:28):
too, because we have not discoveredhow to harness a certain you know,
facet of just the universe essentially,Right, So I digress, and I
do that, but you know,I would just love your take in general
on ancient technologies as a whole.What do you mean when you say that

(41:49):
statement? Just kind of walk usthrough That set the stage for all the
other questions I'm going to have foryou. Okay, Well, there are
some that have a theory that therewas one advanced ancient civilization that existed prior
to again, as I state,the Great Cataclysm that occurred, and there's

(42:14):
mounting scientific evidence that this cataclysm serieshappened between twelve thousand and seven hundred and
eleven thousand, six hundred years ago, and Robert Shock is a good proponent
of that. So we're talking thatthese sites were constructed to the cataclysm,
so that throws them back twelve tothirteen thousand years ago. And again most

(42:37):
think that it was one you know, so called Atlantean civilization or Alien civilization
or something like that that did allthe work all around the world. But
when you look at the actual surfacesand construction techniques, that doesn't really mount
up, because what we see inEgypt is everything which is predynastic, which

(42:57):
include the Great Pyramids, etc.We see machine marks like we see saw
marks, we see drill marks,circular saws, straight saws, we see
penetration rates of these tools being moreefficient than what we have in the twenty
first century. But then when wego to Peru, that's where we have
polygonal construction, which simply means everystone is a different shape and size,

(43:22):
such as Sasaman, and the stonesoriginally fitted together into some degrees still fit
together together with such precision that youcan't fit a human hair in the join.
So that looks more like a likea molded or the alteration of the
actual fabric of the stone material likebeing able to change its molecular structure temporarily.

(43:46):
And so that I think that isfar more advanced than what we see
at Egypt. In Egypt we seescale like the Great Pyramid, the hundred
ten boxes in the Serapm, thingsof that nature. But in Peru the
scale is not quite as big,except at places, like Zak said one
month, but we see that somehowagain the molecular nature of the stone seems

(44:12):
to have been altered, and thatis something that is way out of the
box. And you need someone who'sa very open minded engineer to go with
you to look at them and hearwhat their theories are. And none of
the engineers or stonemasons that we've takento Peru have been able to explain how
the work was done, so theyhave to go into the theoretical side of

(44:37):
how it would be even possible todo this kind of work, and that
automatically throws the INCA out as beingthe creators of the works. The INCA
found the sites and built at thesites. When that question gets asked about
like let's say Machu Pichu for example, like correct me if I'm wrong,
but like their response is going tobe oh no, no, like that

(44:58):
was there are people like encountered it, found it and built on top of
it, or built onto it orexpanded it. I mean, that's that's
what we're working with here, correct. Well. The fun thing is that
the more I go to Machu Peakchu, the more I have the guides from
CUSCO who guide the tourists around thesite come up to me and say,

(45:21):
Wow, I saw your YouTube videos. I wasn't talked to us in school.
This is amazing, awesome. Soagain they've they've been programmed in university
to follow Western archaeology one percent,and when they get a wake up call,
like watching a bit of my videoshowing the difference between the megalithic core
of Machu Peach two and then therest of it, which was all made

(45:43):
by the INCA. The megalithic coresonly about five percent, but it's right
in the epicenter and that's you know, that shows you the logic that they
found that and they were all inspiredand then they decided to build a major
center there. And the difference intechnology is night and day. You have
giant megalithic blocks and then you havebroken up stone with clay mortar, that

(46:06):
being the INCA work. Because yourwork in ancient technology space is so vast.
I feel like we should, youknow, probably have an episode just
dedicated to that topic. But youknow, thinking about your entire career,
what are maybe one or two examplesof a lost technology that you feel is
some you know, some kind ofirrefutable proof of technological advancements of the ancients

(46:28):
that don't exist today. Well,one of my favorite places we're going back
there and I think about ten daysis Puma Punku in Bolivia, which is
about seven miles south of Lake Titicaca. And I've been there I think sixty
times now and every time, yeah, every time I learned something. And

(46:50):
there again you can definitely see thatthere was an ancient cataclysm that occurred.
The site was almost completely, ifnot one hundred percent, buried by a
giant wave of or wall of mudthat came from Lake titty Kakka. The
lake level twelve thousand years ago wasone hundred feet higher, So at twelve
thousand years ago, Lake Titty KakaPuma Punka was right at the shoreline.

(47:15):
We also have evidence at Tiwanaku,which is next door. They're basically the
same site that at a period inthe distant past, again twelve thousand plus
years ago, that parts of itwere underwater because we see that from the
water erosion on the lower surfaces.So that and also we found no tool

(47:35):
marks whatsoever at Puma Punko. It'slike you don't you don't see saw marks,
you don't see drill holes, youdon't see standing marks, nothing.
That's why people say it looks likeit's poured concrete because that's how perfect the
finish is. Right, it lookslike fabrication work, right. I mean
it's like they were they were likeit was an assembly line at play there
in a way. But the majorthing again, when you go to a

(48:00):
play so many times, the focusthat you're looking at become more more more
and more narrow because you know,you see the general thing, and then
he's going, oh, here arethe eight blocks. They're interesting. But
then you take out a tape measureand then you start measuring the H blocks,
and each H blocks is a differentshape and size, and so that

(48:23):
negates the idea that they was aplace where they were, you know,
like had a mold or something ora form and they were just making these
H blocks as an assembly line.Each one's different, it has its own
specific character, and that's what makesit so mysterious. It's just mind bending,
isn't it. I Mean, it'sjust yeah, that's one site that

(48:44):
I've I've always been drawn to andI've always just wanted to know, like,
Okay, what's if you could justbe a fly on the wall back
during its construction or during its heyday, Like, wouldn't wouldn't that just be
an incredible experience? Well, itwould be. It's it's probably it's possibly
the most surreal site in the world. I mean, there's nothing like it
anywhere else that I've been able tosee on Earth. Whoever built that simply

(49:07):
built that there and that was it. It's different from the relatively nearby megalithic
sites around Cusco, Peru, becauseagain, you have the difference between the
polygonal organic shapes around Cusco and thenthese almost if not perfectly straight lines at
Puma Punko just you know, surreal. So while we're down in South America,

(49:27):
I gotta ask you, there's asite in like on the Cambodian Vietnamese
border. It's a cam site andI'm going to butcher the pronunciation. Believe
I believe it's pria A here andthis site ancient megalithic site only recently opened
up to the public and tourists andwhatnot, just because of all of the

(49:47):
you know, economic turmoil and whatnotthat was happening in that region. And
when you look at this site andyou compare it to sites like Saxe Huaman
and Machu Pichu, it's eerie.Right. You can look at the there's
there's a wall with the three windowsat pre of a Hair, and then
there's also the wall with three windowsat Machu Picchu, And when you look

(50:12):
at those pictures side by side,they are eerily similar. Have you spent
much time like digging into that,like, I mean, it feels like
there is almost a global phenomenon asit relates to megalithic construction, almost like
they were all kind of pulling fromthe same source material. I just want
to get your take on. Imean, because you've been to a hundred

(50:35):
countries, You've spent so much timeboots on the ground, you know,
looking at, investigating, touching allof these things. What do you think
we're working with here on a globalscale? Brian? I'm not sure that
we're going to discover too many morelike really impressive megalithic side said I think
I think most have been discovered exceptthose that could be you know, on

(50:58):
the continental shelves of the of theoceans. But you definitely see in a
number of different locations stuff that couldnot have been done by the culture that
is attributed to it. Like inJapan you have the the Imperial Palace in
Tokyo, and also in another constructionin Kyote, in the city of Kyoto,

(51:22):
where you again, like you know, five hundred ton blocks fitting together
almost perfectly, and then on topof it much cruder workmanship. And it's
obviously these obviously these places were discoveredand made by I think at least three
or four or more ancient cultures thatmay or may not have been in contact

(51:42):
with one another. But you know, the more you know other sites like
Petri and Jordan, there's no waythat that was done by the so called
Nabatian culture that is attributed to them, because Petri's seven miles long, and
the amount of work done sculpting thebedrock to create Petrick just out of this
world. There's one chamber you canwalk into, the three hundred thousand cubic

(52:07):
feet in size whoa, and thatcould not have been done with you guys
with hand tools. It's just noway. We also saw evidence at places
like Petrick more and more of whatI'm focusing on now are signs of this
ancient cataclysm because according to Robert Shock, who I partially I agree with his
belief in plasma ousebursts from the Sunbeing a cycle of every thirteen thousand years.

(52:30):
And we saw a definite evidence atPetra that there was scorching of the
sandstone on the western surfaces. Ihappened to be there with a geologist from
Canada and she agreed the same.At Karnak in in Egypt, you see
the strange scorching of the stone thatthere's no way that could have been done

(52:51):
by local fire. It had tobe a pulsive energy from from somewhere.
Also, Karnak is twenty three degreesoff the cardinal points of north southeastern West,
so that suggests that the axis ofthe Earth also change around twelve thousand
years ago as well. So youknow, the more you go, the
more you're able to add pieces tothe puzzle. But it's a you know,

(53:15):
it's an ongoing process that's incredible,That is so cool that you get
to just like dig in and askthose questions, but then also go see
the stuff and you know, investigatit for yourself. It's so incredible.
So, Brian, what else areyou currently working on? You know?
How can people find out what you'redoing online? Okay, Well, my
main uh my website is hidden incotoursdot com and of the information there is

(53:42):
free. There's a link to myYouTube channel, which is there too.
I've got I think one thousand,two hundred and seventy videos on my YouTube
channel so far. Um and I'mI'm on Facebook, but I you know,
I don't find Facebook very useful anymore. And coming up, we had
Russis starting at tour in three days. We're doing Nasca and Pacas and then

(54:06):
immediately after that we're going up toCusco. We're going to be exploring the
megalithic sites and elongated skulls in theCusco and Sacred Valley areas in Matsu Pichu,
and also going to Tiwanaku and PumaPunku in Bolivia. Then in March
we're going to do our eighth annualtour of Egypt, and right after that

(54:30):
we're going to I'll be going toIsrael for the first time because there's evidence
in a tunnel under the western Wallthat there are there's at least one five
hundred ton block of stone, whichagain can't be attributed to any culture we
know of. Yeah, and thenafter that I've got contact in the desert
at Indian Wells, California, whichis a three day conference of all sorts

(54:53):
of different subject UFOs las each andhigh technology, etc. And then June,
August and November next year we haveour three major tour annual tours of
Peru. That is one hell ofa calendar. Do you ever sleep?
Actually, I'm taking more and moretime off now, which which is great.

(55:15):
It's good to you know, I'vedone. I think I've done the
bulk of the exploring I have todo. Now it's a question more going
back to these sites and that themain function of the tour is to take
people with us to physically see thestuff in person. Everyone's always blown away
by the difference in what they've seenin pictures that's compared to walking through the

(55:36):
location. Pointing out the difference betweenthe cultures we know of and what they
were capable of and the megalithic workthat there's no way that was done by
any ancient culture that we know ofso far. Yeah, and I'm sure
it's such an incredible experience too.Right. It's like when when you reinforce
what you've spent years, you know, learning and knowledge you've been working to

(55:59):
a wire when you when you whenyou transfer that to another human being,
it reinforces it. At least ithas in my experience. And so I'm
sure when you're walking people through thesesites, that's got to be an amazing
experience. And I'm sure every timeyou go back, like you said,
you're just you're just seeing other piecesof the puzzle and you're probably able to
like get all these pieces of redyarn on the wall to start connecting much

(56:21):
more efficiently. Right, Yeah,well, that's that's very true. And
again, the good thing about socialmedia is that you're able to get to
a much wider audience than would bepossible before. And you know, people
love to see video of this stuff, and that's why I keep doing the
videos about it. And yeah,it's a it's a life lifelong passion for

(56:45):
sure. Well maybe one of thesedays, Ck and I need to come
out and do one of these tripswith you, and I think that'd be
a lot of fun. That soundsgreat. I'll apologize in advance for all
of our questions though, man,there's going to be a lot of them.
That's okay. Well, listen,Brian, we really appreciate you making
time for us today. We knowthat you are such a busy guy,
and we really appreciate and respect outof you for carving an hour for us

(57:08):
and for our audience. So thankyou so much for jumping on the horn
with us, Brian. Brian,thank you so much. I really appreciate
your time today. Oh, absolutelya pleasure. I looked next, look
forward to next time. Same you'dbe well, thank you by now?
All right, Well, not onlymy stoke that we can check that box
as far as like had Brian forreston the show, but also really pumped

(57:30):
that he said he'd be willing tocome back on the show and talk to
us again, which is really cool. And I think, just like you
know, seeing this pattern over time, talking about like different types of humans,
things that preceded humans, things thatmay indicate humans are not exactly what
they seem, and thinking about findingthree hundred of these skulls three thousand years
old kind of changes a bunch oftimelines straight up like really interesting. I

(57:53):
think look into hey, maybe therewas something else going on. Why we're
are we so different? Then?Yeah? And why do we look this
way and act this way? Now? What happened? I want to know
what would happen if we like lockedhim doctor Brian Keating and then other researchers
like Andrew Collins, Graham Hancock,and then an equal amount of you know,

(58:16):
academic thinkers in a room maybe maybein southern California, so they have
nice weather, sun channel of thingsfor like a week, and we provide
food, water, sustenance, allthe things, and we're just like,
okay, solve the problems Beth andbreaks r. At these times, do
they fight each other and like doesthe world supportal open maybe? Or do
they like come out and be like, all right, guys, we figured

(58:37):
it out, no clue. AndI think, more so than anything,
that's one of the cool things aboutgetting to do the show. It's having
people throw some things out and beinglike, I'm exactually sure what's going on
here? They found these in twentyfourteen, but some weird yeah done.
It just looks different. We don'tfind out why. Speaking of finding out

(58:57):
why, next week's episode. Man, this was a name that was not
really one that was like on myradar much. But I am super excited
for this conversation after digging into herbackground, Mary Rodwell dude coming on the
show. She's currently a counselor anda clinical hypnotherapist. She's also a former
nurse and midwife. But her newbook, The New Human Awakening to Our

(59:22):
Cosmic Heritage as leafing through that WildIt's had some pretty cool content kind of
creeping off the page. To me, I'm excited to pick her brain,
as I know you are as well, talking about DNA like all sorts of
like really really experiences with non humanintelligences. You guys know, we like
to get a little out there onthe show, and this conversation could be

(59:44):
really fun. Yeah, this isone that I'm stoked for, and if
you are not currently stoked for it, I'm gonna want you to get stoked.
Guys, come on, right,go on, throw some confetti around.
I don't know, I know you'restill picking up little pieces of your
sensibility about people without elongated skulls rightnow, but really, don't miss out
floss the same regardless of the sizeof our skull. And that's what I

(01:00:07):
need you to do is pause thisstand up floss because that's gonna get your
blood flow, and then you're gonnabe pumped, Mary Rodwell, and you're
gonna be so pumped that if youhaven't subscribed to the show or have been
a Patreon supporter, I should subscribe, like right now. Damn, I'm
gonna subscribe to check that out.Babe, give me your phone so I
can let me subscribe over there too. It's fine, It's like, no,
that's cool, I'm already subscribed.Catch up, nude man. That's

(01:00:28):
a cool dynamic in that relationship.But for real, really hope nobody on
this podcast is affected by COVID nineteenor any of the other glory that's going
out there right now, and thatwe all make it between this episode and
next. Heart goes out to anybodydealing with that right now worldwide. Some
scary stuff. Also, Get yourflu shot, guys, Yeah, flu
shots are important. The MODELO virus. Get that tant virus all locked up.

(01:00:54):
I feel weird even making jokes aboutthis, but seriously, guys,
flu kills like sixty thousand people ayear as well. Don't be stubborn,
like the dad that will just getout there, be safe out there this
winter. Spring is right around thecorner. Wash them hands too, right,
those are that so important? Andit's you know, I don't care
if it's like, you know,cold somewhere that you're at, or sixty

(01:01:15):
five degrees if you're an Antarctica orsomething. But spring is right around the
corner. We'll get through this together. But yeah, tune in next week.
Mary Rodwell is going to be anawesome conversation. Indeed, so until
next time, I'm Andrew MK,and we challenge you to question everything, not do