April 6, 2020 • 51 mins
Today, we are pleased to present an unexpected episode of Lost Origins. With Covid-19 forcing us into quarantine, we felt that an episode could help our audience adjust to life in the great indoors. Today, we link up with our good friend, Adam Stokes to discuss the Egyptian origins of America's pyramids, the mound builders of North America, diffusionism, and their interesting connection to the Book of Mormon. You do not want to miss this one.
Adam Oliver Stokes is an expert and professor of theology and religion at St. Joseph University. He obtained his B.A. in Religion at Duke University and his Masters of Divinity from Yale Divinity School. He is a regular contributor to Ancient American magazine and his work ranges from ancient American civilizations, the Old Testament and Greco-Roman history, and folklore.
Adam Oliver Stokes is an expert and professor of theology and religion at St. Joseph University. He obtained his B.A. in Religion at Duke University and his Masters of Divinity from Yale Divinity School. He is a regular contributor to Ancient American magazine and his work ranges from ancient American civilizations, the Old Testament and Greco-Roman history, and folklore.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:38):
A happy Monday to you. Thisis Andrew with Lost Origins and we're stoked
to present a very special, unexpectedepisode of Lost Origins today. I know
that the last episode that dropped wasthe end of season three, and in
that episode's c K and I outlinedhow we are going to be taken just
a quick break from production, sowe can you know, ID eight and
(00:59):
scheme on ways to elevate the show, ways that we want to amplify it,
take it to the next level,the format, all the things.
But you know, today mark's daytwenty six of quarantine for my family and
myself, and I got to thinkingthis is probably a good opportunity to link
up with some authors, researchers,investigators that you guys love, you guys
(01:22):
want to hear from. And ifthis is our way of encouraging you and
incentivizing you to stay put, stayat home, that's what we're all about,
right. So this week's episode ofLost Origins is brought to you by
our very good friends over at Intertraditionsand Barren Company. If you jump onto
their website intertraditions dot com, youcan check out just a massive library of
(01:42):
books and resources and all the rabbitholes, and right now could not be
a better time for you to jumponto that site and scoop up a book
or two. You know, stayinghome is important, but maintaining sanity is
very very important in this time.And so you grab one of these books
and you're going to be set fora hot minute. You're going to be
expanding that knowledge base and just divinginto mystery aftermistery. So Intertraditions dot Com,
(02:08):
we can't say enough good things aboutour homies over there. Jump on
the website, check it out,and make sure you have resources to get
the best experience out of Quarantine possible. All right, So today's episode is
one that I'm very excited for.It is just me flying solo today.
C K and I are still workingon the logistics as to how we're going
(02:29):
to coordinate human I co hosting theshow, but I was fortunate enough to
connect with our good friend Adam Stokes, who I know last season, so
many of you out there gave usfeedback and shot us messages on social media
via email just about how much youappreciated him coming onto the show, the
insight that he brought to the table, his level of expertise. I mean,
(02:51):
this guy is a hitter through andthrough. He knows his stuff.
And today we're going to be talkingabout some pretty gnarly concepts. We're going
to be talking about biblical temples thatare located in North America. We're going
to be talking about the Egyptian connectionto North America. We're really just going
to focus on our own backyard today. There's a ton of archaeological and megalithic
(03:14):
sites throughout North America, and moreoften than not, those sites they don't
get as much limelight as the onesthat you know, we commonly think of
when we think of ancient megalithic structures, such as go Backley, Teppi,
Giza, Peru, Bolivia, allthe all the most commonplaces that are associated
with megalithic construction. So I'm reallyreally pumped to pick his brain. And
(03:38):
so without further ado, let's justget him on the horn. All right,
Adam Stokes, my friend, welcomeback to Lost Origins. How the
hell are you doing in this crazytime that we're currently living within. Well,
(04:02):
it's a pleasure to be back tothank you for thank you for having
me. I'm just here at homewith my wife and two kids while everybody
is out of work, not likein the fired stents. We we're just
working from home. So I'm teachingboth of my classes, my high school
class and my college class online,and my wife's firm is closed, so
(04:24):
she's doing all her work from home, and I'm homeschooling my six year old
as he goes through first grade.His first grade teacher who lives down the
street or drop off the package tohim every week of homework he has to
do. But he's, you know, he's doing a really good job,
especially for a six year old who'strying to figure out, you know,
what the heck is going on?Why can't I see all my friends and
my students are doing a really goodjob just adjusting. They've yeah, they've
(04:48):
been very kind of supportive and verykind of what's the way I'm looking for,
engaged in the material in spite ofeverything that's been going on, a
very understanding. That's amazing. It'sreally really good to hear. And I'm
glad you and the family are doingwell. And it sounds like you guys
have a pretty awesome rhythm going,you know, at least that's what I
see on social media. We've youknow, we have four kids in the
(05:10):
house, and so it has definitelytaken us a hot minute to get used
to the working from home. Butthen also uh, you know, homeschooling
for humans and also trying to maintainsanity. And so I have found that
once again in my life, Ireturned to music as my way of finding
you know, solace and peace.I've been I've been writing a record for
about six months now and this lastthis last twenty four days in quarantine.
(05:33):
It is, it has allowed mesome time to really take my production chops
to the next level, and soI'm really really enjoying that as well.
So they're there, it's under prettycool. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So I can't say I've been doinganything that creative. I've just been binge
watching uh Netflix and Star Wars andBattlestar Galactica when I can. There is
nothing wrong with Battlestar Galactica or StarWars, my friend. That is that
(05:56):
is a solid use of the timefor sure. Oh man, All right,
well, listen, I thought thiswould be a fun conversation, good
opportunity for you and I to linkup. You have recently written two articles
for The Lost Origins website. Youknow, we had a conversation in season
three that was just amazing, andyou know, we y birthed the shot
and we said, we want tohave another conversation with you. So here
(06:18):
we are. I thought it wouldbe cool for us to kind of talk
through the articles that you wrote forthe website. I know that a lot
of our listeners have checked those out. They spend time digging through them,
and those two articles either as arefresher or for the uninitiated. We have
the Mound Builders and the Egyptian Originof America's Pyramids, and we also have
(06:39):
the most recent, which came outlast week, Biblical Temples in North America.
Both of these are incredible, incrediblereads. They're just well researched,
well put together. I love theway. I love the way that you
write, So I thought like wecould start with the former article. Right.
You open the Mound Builders and theEgyptian Origin of American's Pyramids in such
(06:59):
a powerful way, man, andyou you use this line that just hooks
you from the jump. And it'sunbeknownst too many, North America is home
to various ancient architectural wonders rivaling thosefound elsewhere in the world, whether these
be the Pyramids of Egypt or theGreat Wall of China. Like hot damn,
that is one hell of a sentencemicrotrop material all day long. So
(07:21):
I thought, maybe set the stageand walk us through some of these sites
that you're speaking to in this article. My pleasure, my pleasure. You
know, they always say Drew that, you know, the first set into
any article that you write is theone that's going to hook people and get
them to read the rest of it, no matter how long it is.
So I'm sure that as sexy aspossible. But yeah, I think when
(07:45):
a lot of people think of sitesin America, they always turned to South
America, which has you know,amazing sites itself, and mine pyramids,
mine and temples. But what gowas completely overlooked a lot of times is
the rich culture and the rich historyof pre Columbian North America or the modern
(08:09):
United States. And there is somuch rich history here. There's so many
different sites here in architectural wonders thatare so often just haven't been looked at,
haven't been really the public hasn't beenexposed to these sites all that much.
I can give you a kind ofa Rundown. A couple of my
(08:31):
favorites kind of talk about this allday. I'm gonna I'm gonna condense it,
so I think for me, firstand foremost are the new Work Earthworks,
which I talked about last time Iwas on the show. They date
between one hundred to five hundred CE, and they actually consist of several different
mounds or earthworks, the Great CircleEarthwork, the Octagon Earthwork, and the
(08:56):
Right Earthwork. And just as Imentioned last I was going to show just
a treasure trove of Native American cultureand traditions there for those interested. We
found a lot of pottery shirts,we found a lot of copper um,
copper works, um and Semitic inscription, so that's probably my favorite. Of
(09:20):
course, there's also Poverty Point,which is another mound in West Carroll Parish,
Illinois. It's actually not just onemounds, multiple mounds. They labeled
them ABC D E F and thoseare super old drew those go back to
seven teen hundred to one thousand BCUM, so much older than the Newark
(09:41):
earth Works. M You have theSerpent Mound in Adams County, Ohio,
which is really fascinating. That's thirteenhundred and seventy six feet long and built
likely around three twenty BC, sothat that's really old as well, I
(10:01):
guess the last mound I'll mentioned,and there's some other architectural sites that aren't
art mounds at all but are actuallypretty cool, um, pretty awesome.
But the cohokey of mounds in Illinois, Monks Monk's Mound is there, which
is pretty well known all these considered. It's a famous, very well known
(10:26):
copper works facility. It's the largestpre Columbian earthwork, but it dates late.
It dates to around one thousand oreleven hundred CE, though I have
some more stuff to say about thatlater because it may not be as late
as people traditionally ascribe it. Butbut very fascinating, especially in its connection
with the Giza Pyramid, which I'lltalk about, which I would love to
(10:48):
talk about later on. And thento wrap it up, just a few
that I think are just really cool. Unmount related, you have Mystery Hill,
which is basically Americas Stoneheage in NewHampshire. Um, we don't know
who built those, We don't actuallyknow the date for those for that site,
saying with Costa Grant, the CostaGrand Dat Ruins in Arizona. We
(11:09):
don't know who built those, Wedon't know the date of those sites,
but basically just a large stone structure. Now, one of my favorites outside
of the mounts. Just to kindof conclude here is h Cliff Palace in
Messaverta National Park in Colorado. Theseare things that are built into This is
a whole freaking city built into stone. M It's fairly recent. Again,
(11:30):
that's kind of questionable. They're sayingabout eight hundred years but we know it's
occupied eight hundred years ago, butwhen it was actually built, we're not
sure. But it's right into it'sbuilt right into the mountain itself. Really
crazy if you ever get to lookit up, if you ever google it,
um look at the pictures. Prettypretty amazing wonders. So all of
these things are are things that youknow, not a lot of people know
(11:52):
about, the public doesn't know about. But amazing architectural foods just as amazing.
It's where you get in South Americaand what you get in the Old
World in Egypt and it stoneheads andin other places. Yeah, and so
it's just kind of curiosity. Isthat last one that you mentioned in Colorado.
Is that the one that's near Gardenof the Gods kind of kind of
close to Colorado Springs there, Ithink so, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(12:13):
And I believe that, Like so, I've been there. I lived
in Denver for several years and Iused to go to Garden of the Gods
quite frequently and just happened to cruiseover there and check it out one day.
And I want to say that,like all of the materials and signs
and whatnot that you can read asyou're working your way through the site,
they point to the pueblos as yeah, that's that's to your point who inhabited
(12:35):
it eight hundred years ago? Butum, there's definitely some some mystery and
control. Vocy wrapped a on thatsite too. Yeah, yeah, there's
a lot of I mean, anddoctor gray Little's talked about this as well
with his Adunis of an Origin's book. Um, there is some leadway because
we don't know if the people arehaving the sides of the same people who
(12:56):
built the sites or maybe built,oh for an earlier site. Um.
This is especially true with the CohokiaMound and Monks Mound, which seems to
date pretty late. Like I said, that's well into the common era eleven
hundred CEM. But there's some actualfunky stuff happening was that as well.
It's just mind bending because when youwhen you think about ancient megalithic sites,
(13:18):
right at least at least for me, when I think about those, when
I contemplate them, my mind immediatelygoes to, um, you know,
like the showboaty sites if you will. Where you've got Giza, You've got
go Beckley Teppi, You've got literallyeverything in Peru and Bolivia, um,
you know, Mayan cultures and inMexico and whatnot. It's just I feel
like we take for granted what's inour own backyard um and and it's just
(13:41):
it's pretty crazy to think about allof the things that exists here in North
America that um, for the lackof a better term, are neglected,
uh not not in terms of likeupkeeper maintenance or exploration or investigation, but
like it's just not a thing thatwe often think about as it being grand
noise as you know. Uh yeah, I think we're very much intat mindset.
(14:05):
I know you guys are racists.The last time we talked that pre
Columbus, you know, basically Americaand especially North America really didn't have any
type of history, and that's that'sjust not true. And so I think,
you know, I think it's kindof the tradition that we've inherited in
our history books, in our textbooks, and in a lot of cases,
(14:26):
whether deliberately or not, a lotof these really amazing architectural sites were destroyed.
Um. Some just by you know, they want to build up a
shopping center or something they were theywere destroyed, and others more deliberately.
But we don't even the sites wehave, sadly enough, as glorious as
they are, we don't have themin their in their full glory. And
(14:48):
a lot of cases, especially withthe Newark Earthworks, a lot of those
uh, they speculate that there werea lot there were several other more mounds
uh that were likely destroyed. Soum, So that's kind of sad that
well, you know, you'd mentionedlike we don't have them in their their
glory, you know, right,like they're not. There's a lot of
stuff that has been destroyed. Um. I'm also wondering if we have like
(15:11):
a complete understanding whether we're talking aboutthe mounds in Michigan or Ohio or Illinois,
West Virginia, Mississippi. I mean, in your article the mound Builders
in the Egyptian origin of America's Pyramids, you cover a lot of terrain there.
You're focusing specifically on these different moundstructures which are very pyramidal in shape,
but most of them have like almosta plateau or a flat surface.
(15:33):
So yeah, my question is isthat intact that being the history? Do
we know who built these things?And like when do we do we have
any under ideas to to like anepoch behind these things. That's that's a
great question. And the very simpleanswer to that is yes and no,
(15:56):
leaning more towards than no. Sowe label If you look at the academic
literature even now, even in thetwenty first century, they'll say, you
know, we cannot specifically label thecommunity that built these mounds. They just
call them generically the mound building cultures. I think the great example of this
(16:18):
is with the Mississippi culture that builtthe mounds in the American South. They
just call them Mississippi culture and theirsubstruent of that Mississippi culture. Now for
the earthworks and for the mounds thatare in kind of the Midwest region.
Scholars, most archaeologists would say thatthey were built by two groups, the
(16:41):
Adena and the Hope Well. Butget this true, this is not their
actual names. Those names are givento those people from the dudes who basically
excavated or found stuff in those regions. So I think one dude was named
Hope Well, the other one wasnamed a Dina or something like that.
So we actually don't know, justbased on the archaeological record, we don't
(17:03):
actually know the names of the groupsthat constructed these mounds. But I do
think and this is where I thinkyou have to think outside of the box
and kind of move away from theconclusions that mainstream academia has has drawn.
And I think this is where youknow, independent research, independent study is
(17:26):
so important. I think there areother clues within the culture that give us
a clear identification as to who thesepeople are. So in short, in
short, I think that mainstream academicwill say, no, we don't really
know, we can't really give aname to the particular culture who built these
mounds. But I think my ownopinion is that if you look at some
(17:52):
of these traditions and the artifacts foundin these regions, I think you can
trace them to a particular culture,which is why I talk about the egypt
Israelites in my writings. Yeah yeah, yeah. So two questions for you.
First, Um, at one ageor if ever, did you stop
using the the the the mental moniker, the m I SSI s Sippi,
(18:15):
the little thing from a kid whenanytime you had to spell Mississippi. Um
that you know that the important questions, Adam, those always coming up first.
I still us Yeah yeah, Iwas running down my notes, I
start to say to my head.So so then my second question, though,
this is a real grown up question. Now, UM, I'm almost
wondering, if you know, whenwhen we're talking about these sites, especially
(18:38):
down in Mississippi. You know ScottWalter who's been on the show before,
he has done some work investigating thepossibility that the Mayan people made their way
up into parts of South America,southern United States, like into Georgia,
for example, and he's been umcomparing the analysis of I believe it was
it was paint fragments and whatnot toconfirm whether or not that they had had
(19:03):
migrated up into the Georgia area longlong, long ago. So I'm almost
wondering like you know that culture wasvery much steeped in megalithic architecture, megalithic
construction. Have you spent much timenoodling on whether or not like we're we're
potentially looking at remnants of Mayan presencein America. I mean, if if
(19:23):
we don't know the name of thecultures who built these things, we don't
know whether or not they occupied them, or built them or built on top
of previously built structures, Like,have you spent much time contemplating that?
Adam, Uh, that's a reallythat's a really good question. M.
I love Scott Walter's work. I'vebeen watching his American on Earth since god
(19:45):
knows how how long, but itcame back on the Travel Channel. Um.
Just an amazing, amazing Scott,amazing researcher. Um. That's a
really good question. I mean,I think, um and I am guilty
of this tendency so much true whicha clear distinct ship between North and South
America. You go over the Mexicanborder, that's the South America that you
can't and there's no there's no interactionbetween the two. But that that border
(20:08):
is really in our mind, thatborder has never really existed yea, and
I think that, Um, it'sperfectly plausible that there was mine influence into
North America and the same vice versathat whoever these now billion people were,
went into the Maya culture and possiblyinfluenced them. Um, that's something I
(20:30):
need to research more. I'd bevery interested in kind of seeing you know
what comes to that. I cantell you that the most recent issue of
Ancient American Magazine, which is amagazine I sometimes contribute to. I love
this work. Um, they actuallytalked about the possibility of a Mayan temple
(20:52):
pyramid in North America. So notjust Walter's work, but several of their
scholars have been arguing from mind influencein North America as well. That's something
that I would definitely like to lookinto more and see as there a Maya
you know, Egyptian type of hope, well Adena type of connection on it.
(21:15):
And you know, I think thisgoes to a larger issue of you
know, Diffusianism, cultural Diffusianism.Um, how are these cultures? Uh?
What I should say? Let mereframe that, why are these cultures
doing things and where they're doing anddo you just wake up and say,
you know, I'm going to builda pyramid. Um, probably not.
I mean, we see similarities amongstall these cultures, and I think you
(21:37):
know that there is exchange and interchangeamongst all these cultures. Yeah, it's
really really crazy, like the rabbitholes that open up in the mind when
you when you start to look atall of the possibilities, Um, and
you you were like you said itso well, Adam, like that border
exists in our mind because some dudedrew it on a map. Right,
(22:00):
It's not a thing. It's nota real thing outside of like what we've
allowed it to become. And sowhen you remove that from the equation,
the possibilities and rabbit holes just man, they become endless. And so I'd
like to jump down a rabbit holewith you right now. Man. So
in that article that you wrote forthe website, you present some pretty gnarly
(22:22):
parallels, specifically to like the dimensionsof the Ohio Mounds and the Geesea pyramids,
and holy shit, if anybody outthere has not looked at that,
I am please pause this and goread that article real quick, and then
when you're done scooping the remnants ofyour brain off the floor, come back.
And then jump back into get Getget Adam's take on that firsthand.
(22:45):
So Adam hit us with that,walk us through those correlations, those connections,
and then just hit us with like, what do you think we're looking
at here? I know we've alreadymentioned diffusionism, but but I just from
the horse's mouth, what do youthink we're seeing here? Well? This
this blew my mind. I rememberthe first time I heard about the parallels
between the North American mounds and theGiza period. It was from Frank Joseph.
(23:08):
And he's written several books on Earthin Ancient America, Ancient Technology of
the America, of the North Americans. He's written several books on this,
and when he mentioned it, Ithink he mentioned it also on your show.
I was like, dude, eventhough I have like the highest respect
and highest regard for Frank Joseph,if I was like, is this you
(23:29):
know? Could this possibly be true? And I started doing some research on
my own, and shocker, notreally shocking, Frank Joseph was absolutely right.
So for months mound, the dimensionsof it, basically the base of
the mound is the same exact sneakingdimensions as the Geeza pyramid, thirty thirteen
(23:55):
point one acres or five point threehectarism. This is a type of stuff
that someone like myself who is verymuch, very much advocates Dithusian model.
This seems to be a clear cutconnection between the culture of ancient the architecture
of ancient Egypt, and the architectsof North America. Now, before I
(24:22):
go on, I want to kindof address a criticism that someone will immediately
raise, if you know, iflisteners are paying attention to the beginning of
the show, I know that Monk'sMound is usually dated between one thousand and
eleven hundred CEES, so it's kindof late. But there's a couple of
things going on here. They haveto be taken into sistation one and duration.
(24:45):
Academic durmasial archeologists is going to acknowledgistsas well that that date is taken
from the peak of whatever culture wasthere, So it's possible that those mounds
to earlier. It shots that thosemounds were used at that excuse me,
that site at its peak was usedaround eleven hundred ce UM. But there
(25:14):
is a lot of evidence um thathas been uh that independent researchers raised that
this site was occupied by earlier buildingstructures and the same uh. So you
have the same dimensions, but therewas an older site there on those dimensions
that dates too much earlier than theCommon Era. It seems to have been
(25:36):
used uh much later by native byother Native American groups um so um I
mentioned before doctor uh doctor Greg Little, he notes this phenomenon to out North
America. How you have a reallyspeaking old ancient site that uh, the
(25:56):
original inhabitants like die out, theygo extinct, and then later inhabitants come
and say, oh, this isreally you know, amazing, this must
be some type of sacred site,and uh they housed themselves there. So
um the Monk Mound, even ifit dates the Common Era, were possibly
looking at a place whose dimensions parallelwith the dimensions of the Giza Pyramid,
(26:19):
uh were was possibly built and usedmuch much earlier. We see this actually
all the time in Western history withum, with Christian churches so uh in
England, in Ireland, um,in Germany. There will be the sacred
(26:40):
sites that the Druids and that thepre Christian Europeans had, um and Christians
will be like this is a sourceof great power so they'll build their churches
on these familier sites. Does thatmean that the site only dates to when
that church was built. No,the site has a longer, a much
longer history than that. But itwas used by later um later inhabitants because
(27:03):
they said that there were some typeof power or sacredness there. Man.
But for me, Um, Yeah, for me, Monk's Mound is one
of the clearest examples, along withthe New Yorks Earthworks, of cultural diffusionism.
I don't think it gets uh,it gets better than that. It's
kind of like the smoking gun atthis point, right, I think so,
I think so, yeah, damand so one thing that I can't
(27:25):
help, but like, and I'mnot trying to take us back to um,
you know, Central America, butI'm gonna sorry, you know.
So, like we have the pyramidal, like the base perimeter, you know,
the measurements that the dimensions there betweenOhio and Giza just being so in
line with each other. And that'sbonkers. And yes, that that points
to diffusionism. Um, have youhad any conversations or spend time researching the
(27:52):
Teo Teo tiucon connection as well?Right, So we have that pyramid being
eerily similar or to Giza as well, and so like when when I hear
the the Ohio Mounds being reminiscent ofGiza, in my mind, I'm connecting
all three of those as more ofa UM like. Okay, now we
have like a pattern here. Wehave potentially a like global UM initiative or
(28:18):
this could be UM like refugees almostof some kind of ancient law civilization that
was displaced coming out of that UM, you know, episode of human human
history and using the knowledge that theyalready had pre cataclysm to reboot and rebuild,
(28:38):
but the location was dependent upon wherethey were displaced. Two yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, whatdo you like? What are your thoughts
on that? I think that's areally good point. I know, Frank
jose if he argues for kind ofan Atlantean UH source basically slow civilization that
(28:59):
through a massive delusion or catastrophe UMhad basically the survivor of that retained U
the architectural knowledge of this law civilization. And I do think you know that
is that is a possibility UM.I also and this is something UM that
I think we talked about a littlebit last off. I was on the
show UM. I think you havedifferent migrations at different times, So it's
(29:25):
possible that the South American structures theymight have been influenced by any Egyptian type
of culture themselves. And I thinkthat, you know, beyond the pyramids
themselves in South America, there area lot of other connections in just the
cultural traditions and the artifacts and stuffthat have been found there. Uh that
(29:47):
kind of point to a to anear Eastern um connection. And I know
that, um, there are thereare some scouts, particularly uh within the
field of kind of Mormonism. Ican talk more about that leader who would
argue for kind of a direct dependenceon Egypt. Uh, excuse me,
(30:10):
a direct dependence on Egypt with themind tradition. HM. So, just
like you open your article with themic drop and the sexiest shit ever,
you're gonna you're gonna do that tous right now, aren't you just gonna
tease it? And I think it'sa good time though too. Like we
do have to take just a quickbreak, but when we come back,
let's let's jump back in, gofull rip and keep keep exploring this rabbit
(30:33):
hole. Some more from Adam Stokesafter the break, all right, friends,
(31:11):
Welcome back to this week's episode ofLost Origins, a very special and
unexpected episode that we wanted to dropto help with staying inside. So this
episode is brought to you by washingyour hands. This week we are connecting
with our friend and homie, AdamStokes. Before the break, we were
digging into one of his articles thathe had written for the Lost Origins website,
(31:33):
the Mound Builders in the Egyptian originof America's Pyramids. Man, what
one hell of a ride, andwe were talking about the Ohio Mounds,
the connections to Giza, and beforethe break, Adam he had started to
tease a little bit about diffusionism,but we had also started kind of poking
at the bear that is the Bookof Mormon in true choose your own adventure
(31:56):
fashion. I'm going to let youjust steer us down chever path. You'd
like to take us right now,So pick your poison and let's do the
thing. I'll start with Docusianism becauseI think that we'll lead into discussions of
the Book of Mormon. So inmainstream academic circles, the common model is
(32:20):
the migrationist model, especially and lookingat the approach and looking at the history
of ancient America. So you havethe Clovis model people coming through the Bearing
Straight and settling into America. Idon't want to dismiss that completely, but
(32:42):
I think you have going on alsomigrations of other groups into the region from
various from various places in the world, not just the Bearing Strait, and
over various times, and bringing theirculture and their religion into play in North
America. And so what scholars likemyself arguing for is difusionist model, which
(33:09):
is where you have a transaction ofcultural traditions, interaction of cultural traditions between
groups separated by long distances, andnot just with North America, but in
general. Mainstream archaeology tends to shyaway from that. The want of everything
is migrationists. But there are timeswhen this can't be disputed. So for
(33:31):
example, with the Vikings. Youknow, the Vikings came to North America,
they built sites here that can't bedisputed. So there are times whe
mainstream archeology and mainstream academia has toadmit evidence for Difusianism, but it usually
doesn't like to. When they eachmainstream scholars talk about divisionists, and they'll
(33:52):
usually relegated to the back of theirbook, to the appendix of their book.
I think one of my favorite books. I love this book Ancient Native
Americans. It is written by amainstream scholar, and he has a whole
and basically a fascinating chapter on Diffusianismfrom Egypt and from the Phoenicians. But
(34:13):
he includes it in the appendix ofhis books, so you don't even if
you're like, if you're reading itand you don't read apendixist, you're not
even going to notice that. Soand this is kind of I mentioned this
because this is kind of the generalattitude that mainstream academia has towards diffusionism.
But I think that in North Americayou have clear cut examples of cultural influence
(34:37):
from the old world going to thenew. I've always struggled with just like
the opposition to diffusionism in general.I mean, if there's so many reasons
why it makes sense, whether you'retalking, you know, toward hired All
and the Kontiki, or you're lookingat different you know, Petricklyffe sites in
California that like guys like Karl Lerbergerpointing to, I mean, it's it's
(35:00):
everywhere. It's all over UM.And it's not just megalithic sites or you
know, petroclyft sites or some ofdude that built a raft either. I
mean if you look at um likeagriculture for example, UM, and and
the specificity is escaping me. SoI apologize, but I want to say
that I read an article, uhthat that you know, somebody had done
(35:22):
the research looking at a very specificseed that is very common and indigenous to
um western South America and that beingfound um, you know in the middle
of the ocean where you know,over by where the Rapa Nui people are
with with the moi. UM.It's it's just it's it's mind bending,
right, and that kind of thatkind of stuff is not an accident.
(35:44):
I mean, yeah, yeah,that's you mentioned. UM. I'm glad
you mentioned the agricultural evidence. JohnSorenson has a whole list, um,
He's worked closely with biologists, awhole list of plants and vegetables that are
not indigenous to North America and couldonly have been brought over here by different
(36:07):
groups over long periods of time.Charles mankind of does the same thing in
his fourteen ninety one book talking aboutjust the evidence for cultural Diffusianism cultural interaction
in the form of the agriculture,asking the agriculture that we find in North
America, right, right, Soyou know, when we're looking at diffusionism,
(36:31):
we're making these connections here. Ijust can't help but wonder, like,
are any of these mounds that you'rereferencing in this second article, right,
Biblical temples in North America? Areany of these Is there any overlap
between these mounds and the mounds thatyou describe in your first article the Mound
Builders in Egyptian Origin of America's Pyramids? And if so, like, what
(36:52):
does your mind do with that possibility, Like, what do you think the
larger scale implications could be if ifthat is you know the case, Yeah,
I think um, I think it'sdefinitely definitely overlap. I think so
the book that I've referenced in BiblicalTemples, the Mound Builders, the scholar
(37:15):
there, Smell is actually Schnell isactually looking at the Newark Earthworks in Ohio,
which is one of the mounds thatI mentioned in the previous article of
the Mound Builders and the Egyptian Originsof America's Pyramids. And not only does
the temple there that Schnell describes mirrorkind of the dimensions and the structure that
(37:40):
we get in the ancient or Eastwith the Shilow Temple, the shallow tradition
that's mentioned in First Samuel, Samuelsleeping in the Chamber. We have the
same exact thing with the Hopewell Templethere, but we found we found a
new work various cultural artifacts. Areyou subscriptions that are Semitic which are suggesting
(38:02):
direct cultural influence from the Near Eastas well? Um? So, and
which is which is fascinating? Uh, fascinating too for sure? For sure?
It's it's yeah, the the likeI said earlier, the rabbit holes
are abundant when we're looking at thesethese connections and these possibilities here. So
(38:24):
let's do this. Hit me withthis, the Book of Mormon connections,
Like, how does the Book ofMormon tie into this entire mystery? I
feel like that's that is, like, you know, one massive piece that
on the surface doesn't apparently like doesn'tseem like it fits into this puzzle at
least for me. So like walkme through that, help me understand,
(38:45):
Like how how all of that tiesinto what we're looking at here? Yeah?
Yes, So, UM, theBook of Mormon claims to be an
ancient record of uh, basically NorthAmerica. Now, when you hear the
Book of Mormon, I think areligious text, but too certainly is.
But the person who claimed to translateit based in the founder of Mormonism,
(39:05):
Joseph Smith, he understood it firstand foremost as a historical account. UM.
And so I prefaced this. Imentioned this because it's easy to when
you hear the Book of Mormon andAltruck and just say, oh, this
is you know, a religious thisis a religious text, but it's also
meant to be a historical documentation ofthe history of the ancient inhabitants of North
(39:30):
America. UM. And where youum and when it was originally published?
Um, it was published kind ofyou if you ever can get a facsimile
of the eighteen thirty edition of theBook of Mormon, UM, they sell
them from like twenty five or twentynine dollars on Amazon. UM. I
have one here on my bookshelf.But it looks basically like basically your your
(39:54):
standard nineteenth century history book. Soit's basically book or you know, historical
novel. UM. It doesn't haveversus or anything like that. So UM
this UH scholars point to this andsay, you know, Joseph Smith really
thought of this as a history book. Now, the circumstances around it,
um are are controversial or debatable.UM. But if it's if it's claiming
(40:19):
to be UM. If we takethe claim that it that it's a history
book and that tells the history ofancient inhabitants, UM, then it gives
us some insight as to who theidentity of the mound builders might be.
And I mentioned earlier that mainstream scholarsstill UM are reluctant to give a specific
identification, UH to to the moundbuilders. So we give them names Hope
(40:44):
well aDNA, Mississippi culture, Mississippianculture, UM, but we don't actually
connect them with a specific group.UM. But in the Book of Mormon,
UH, architectural structures very simile smiliarto the mounds are mentioned and described,
(41:04):
but they're attributed specifically to Near Easternrefugees who came over after the destruction
of Jerusalem or slightly befecuting slightly beforedestruction of Jerusalem in five eighty six PC
to North America. So I thinkif that claim that it's an ancient document
(41:25):
it claims to be translated from metalplates, and we do know, not
trying to be a religious apologist here, but we do know that both in
North and South America, metallic platessilver plates were used to record to record
things. We even have this inthe Near East with the Dead Sea scools,
(41:45):
so we have the coquer School ofIsaiah, which was used to write
the Book of Isaiah for the DeadSea crew community. So we do have
evidence of this and the Book aWoman claims to be from similar metallic plates
as an ancient record. And ifthat's then if that is the case,
big if there, I understand that. But if that is the case,
I think it goes a long waytowards helping us identify who these actual mound
(42:10):
builders were. And I think thatwhen you take what it says in relation
to the archaeological evidence, to submittedconscriptions that we've found, the dimensions of
the mounds, the structure of themounds which parallel Egyptian and Israelite structures,
then I think that the supports adiffecientist view of Near Eastern as I like
(42:32):
to call them again, egypt Israelitesmigrating, maybe several migrations over a long
course of time, maybe only acouple of migrations over a short period of
time, but definitely migrating to theNew World, to North America and settling
there. So what kind of workis currently being done to just like further
the exploration of the connection here andthe possibilities that you just shared with us,
(42:55):
think is is that an ongoing effortthat you're aware of or dissipating in
um? Yes, not a um. So A lot of the work that
I can do is basically on myown as an independent scholar, But there
are Mormons in the field, sothe Just Smith Foundation, groups like that
(43:16):
which try to find these connections betweenbasically the old world and the news.
So there was recently it's own AmazonPrime video if you have the chance to
watch it, since we have plentyof hours of time. That's all I
got right now, man, Yes, but actually tracing a kind of taking
(43:39):
the Viking migration to the United Statesand showing kind of Israelite connections with the
Vikings, so you have kind ofhave a double dose Ditesianism, as I
like to call it. There.And then, as I mentioned before,
John Sorenson's work really looking at kindof the agricultural evidence for Dihuesianism. A
(44:04):
lot of Mormon scholars will place theBook of Mormon actually in a South American
setting. Um, I'm one ofI'm one of a group known as kind
of the Great Lakes people who placeit in the North American setting. So
there's a lot of research being doneon kind of the South American connections to
the Old World, to the Nearto the Near East, and so more
(44:30):
mental point too. For example,Coco Kan and the Great Bearded White God,
the Great Serpent as being there area lot of parallels, actually,
some very interesting parallels between how thatGod is described and how Jesus is described
in the New Testament. Um,so some some very interesting stuff going on
(44:53):
there. Yeah, there's definitely somereally cool connections there. And I've spent
a ton of time just poring overthat and uh, you know, trying
to make sense of the striking similaritiesthat you find between the two. So
let's let's do this, like,because we're almost at our time, and
I want to respect yours, andI know that you've got a little one
(45:13):
sleeping at home, and again Iappreciate the hell out are you making time
for this conversation today. But likeso for for our listeners out there,
who you know, they just gothit with all this information and uh,
it was rapid fire and it wasa lot, and thank you. UM
do you have any resources or umlike directions that you can point them in
(45:34):
to allow them to continue to digin and and explore all these different similarities
and connections that we're seeing in NorthAmerica. Like, what's the best resource
for people out there to continue thisthis quest? Yeah? Yeah, Well,
first of all, I'm want togive a shout out to Ancient American
Magazine and Wayne May I think,um, just for the lay person,
(45:55):
for the common reader, you'll findthe best information about ancient North America and
evidence for Doctusianism in that magazine.UM. That magazine, UM was edited
by Frank kose Of, who's writtenseveral amazing books on Ancient America. UM.
Just google him. His books willcome up, and UM you'll find
(46:20):
those those are those are great resourcesfor people. Amazon Prime, Yes,
I keep pushing Amazon Prime because I'vebeen watching a lot of them lately in
the Quarantine. But they have severaldocumentaries, one entitled Demound Builders, as
well as The Quest for the NewsFights that I mentioned earlier UM that talk
(46:40):
about Diffusianism. The latter video iskind of for a Mormon context, but
if you want UM one that justgives a general a really good detailed overview
UM from kind of a purely academicstandpoint, the Mound Builders would be would
be your documentary. UM. Ialso have a couple of articles out Drew
(47:02):
mentioned them on Lost Origins. Ialso have a book out that recently was
published, From Egypt to Ohio,which looks at this topic directly. So
I think any of those places,especially Asian American Magazine, would be a
great starting point for you. Man, that's amazing, Well listen at them.
It is always such a pleasure talkingto you. We we we appreciate
(47:24):
the hell out of you here atLost Origins. I'm I'm really really grateful
for you know, for the hourthat we were able to spend together today.
UM. It's good to talk shopand you know, just talk about
some stuff that you know is notcurrently pervasive on the news or social media.
And so my hope is that youknow, our listeners out there,
(47:44):
you know, we're able to kindof unplug for an hour and just enjoy
using the noodle for something else,you know, Yes, yes, we
all need to do that. Yeah, agreed, agreed. Well listen to
my friend, um, stay safeout there, wash those hands. You
know, look at the over thesilver lining moments that life is providing us
right, you know, with rightnow, with with being able to be
(48:05):
home with the kids, if,if, if that's your situation, we
hope that you guys make the bestuse of the time and stay healthy.
My friend, thanks true saying toyou stay safe. I appreciate that by
now, man, I cannot sayenough. It's one of nicest on the
(48:25):
face of the so knowledgeable about allof the different subjects and topics that exploring
that he can explain conversations with himare such a good time. So I
don't know what to expect. Idon't know whether or not we're going to
be dropping an episode next week.I can tell you that we're going to
(48:46):
do everything that we can to keepcontent flowing. Like I said at the
beginning of the episode, m wehave some stuff to talk about as it
relates to you know, how couldwe approach production during the here and now?
But we are not ready to BabeRuth. The shot on the schedule
for for releases. But what Iwill say is jump onto social media,
(49:07):
jump onto the website, link upwith us somehow, and just help us
build a list of the different gueststhat you guys would like to see.
We will do what we can tomake it happen. We want to make
sure that you guys have resources andcontent and episodes of the show to consume
while we are, you know,going through the social distancing and the stay
at home approach to life that isthe new norm. So just make sure
(49:30):
that you guys are sharing with uswho you would like to have come on
the show, because we want tomake sure that we're building content and episodes
that you guys are going to enjoythe most. Right so make sure that
you guys smash that subscribe button,link up with us on social media,
let us know what you're reading,let us know what you guys are exploring,
let us know how you're using thetime. Make sure you wash your
hands and don't touch your face becausethat's important, and just stay safe out
(49:54):
there. Right world is a crazyplace right now, It's it's pretty insane
what's happening. But at the endof the day, if we all do
our part, we will definitely beable to overcome this. So until next
time, I'm Andrew and I challengeyou to question
A happy Monday to you. Thisis Andrew with Lost Origins and we're stoked
to present a very special, unexpectedepisode of Lost Origins today. I know
that the last episode that dropped wasthe end of season three, and in
that episode's c K and I outlinedhow we are going to be taken just
a quick break from production, sowe can you know, ID eight and
(00:59):
scheme on ways to elevate the show, ways that we want to amplify it,
take it to the next level,the format, all the things.
But you know, today mark's daytwenty six of quarantine for my family and
myself, and I got to thinkingthis is probably a good opportunity to link
up with some authors, researchers,investigators that you guys love, you guys
(01:22):
want to hear from. And ifthis is our way of encouraging you and
incentivizing you to stay put, stayat home, that's what we're all about,
right. So this week's episode ofLost Origins is brought to you by
our very good friends over at Intertraditionsand Barren Company. If you jump onto
their website intertraditions dot com, youcan check out just a massive library of
(01:42):
books and resources and all the rabbitholes, and right now could not be
a better time for you to jumponto that site and scoop up a book
or two. You know, stayinghome is important, but maintaining sanity is
very very important in this time.And so you grab one of these books
and you're going to be set fora hot minute. You're going to be
expanding that knowledge base and just divinginto mystery aftermistery. So Intertraditions dot Com,
(02:08):
we can't say enough good things aboutour homies over there. Jump on
the website, check it out,and make sure you have resources to get
the best experience out of Quarantine possible. All right, So today's episode is
one that I'm very excited for.It is just me flying solo today.
C K and I are still workingon the logistics as to how we're going
(02:29):
to coordinate human I co hosting theshow, but I was fortunate enough to
connect with our good friend Adam Stokes, who I know last season, so
many of you out there gave usfeedback and shot us messages on social media
via email just about how much youappreciated him coming onto the show, the
insight that he brought to the table, his level of expertise. I mean,
(02:51):
this guy is a hitter through andthrough. He knows his stuff.
And today we're going to be talkingabout some pretty gnarly concepts. We're going
to be talking about biblical temples thatare located in North America. We're going
to be talking about the Egyptian connectionto North America. We're really just going
to focus on our own backyard today. There's a ton of archaeological and megalithic
(03:14):
sites throughout North America, and moreoften than not, those sites they don't
get as much limelight as the onesthat you know, we commonly think of
when we think of ancient megalithic structures, such as go Backley, Teppi,
Giza, Peru, Bolivia, allthe all the most commonplaces that are associated
with megalithic construction. So I'm reallyreally pumped to pick his brain. And
(03:38):
so without further ado, let's justget him on the horn. All right,
Adam Stokes, my friend, welcomeback to Lost Origins. How the
hell are you doing in this crazytime that we're currently living within. Well,
(04:02):
it's a pleasure to be back tothank you for thank you for having
me. I'm just here at homewith my wife and two kids while everybody
is out of work, not likein the fired stents. We we're just
working from home. So I'm teachingboth of my classes, my high school
class and my college class online,and my wife's firm is closed, so
(04:24):
she's doing all her work from home, and I'm homeschooling my six year old
as he goes through first grade.His first grade teacher who lives down the
street or drop off the package tohim every week of homework he has to
do. But he's, you know, he's doing a really good job,
especially for a six year old who'strying to figure out, you know,
what the heck is going on?Why can't I see all my friends and
my students are doing a really goodjob just adjusting. They've yeah, they've
(04:48):
been very kind of supportive and verykind of what's the way I'm looking for,
engaged in the material in spite ofeverything that's been going on, a
very understanding. That's amazing. It'sreally really good to hear. And I'm
glad you and the family are doingwell. And it sounds like you guys
have a pretty awesome rhythm going,you know, at least that's what I
see on social media. We've youknow, we have four kids in the
(05:10):
house, and so it has definitelytaken us a hot minute to get used
to the working from home. Butthen also uh, you know, homeschooling
for humans and also trying to maintainsanity. And so I have found that
once again in my life, Ireturned to music as my way of finding
you know, solace and peace.I've been I've been writing a record for
about six months now and this lastthis last twenty four days in quarantine.
(05:33):
It is, it has allowed mesome time to really take my production chops
to the next level, and soI'm really really enjoying that as well.
So they're there, it's under prettycool. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
So I can't say I've been doinganything that creative. I've just been binge
watching uh Netflix and Star Wars andBattlestar Galactica when I can. There is
nothing wrong with Battlestar Galactica or StarWars, my friend. That is that
(05:56):
is a solid use of the timefor sure. Oh man, All right,
well, listen, I thought thiswould be a fun conversation, good
opportunity for you and I to linkup. You have recently written two articles
for The Lost Origins website. Youknow, we had a conversation in season
three that was just amazing, andyou know, we y birthed the shot
and we said, we want tohave another conversation with you. So here
(06:18):
we are. I thought it wouldbe cool for us to kind of talk
through the articles that you wrote forthe website. I know that a lot
of our listeners have checked those out. They spend time digging through them,
and those two articles either as arefresher or for the uninitiated. We have
the Mound Builders and the Egyptian Originof America's Pyramids, and we also have
(06:39):
the most recent, which came outlast week, Biblical Temples in North America.
Both of these are incredible, incrediblereads. They're just well researched,
well put together. I love theway. I love the way that you
write, So I thought like wecould start with the former article. Right.
You open the Mound Builders and theEgyptian Origin of American's Pyramids in such
(06:59):
a powerful way, man, andyou you use this line that just hooks
you from the jump. And it'sunbeknownst too many, North America is home
to various ancient architectural wonders rivaling thosefound elsewhere in the world, whether these
be the Pyramids of Egypt or theGreat Wall of China. Like hot damn,
that is one hell of a sentencemicrotrop material all day long. So
(07:21):
I thought, maybe set the stageand walk us through some of these sites
that you're speaking to in this article. My pleasure, my pleasure. You
know, they always say Drew that, you know, the first set into
any article that you write is theone that's going to hook people and get
them to read the rest of it, no matter how long it is.
So I'm sure that as sexy aspossible. But yeah, I think when
(07:45):
a lot of people think of sitesin America, they always turned to South
America, which has you know,amazing sites itself, and mine pyramids,
mine and temples. But what gowas completely overlooked a lot of times is
the rich culture and the rich historyof pre Columbian North America or the modern
(08:09):
United States. And there is somuch rich history here. There's so many
different sites here in architectural wonders thatare so often just haven't been looked at,
haven't been really the public hasn't beenexposed to these sites all that much.
I can give you a kind ofa Rundown. A couple of my
(08:31):
favorites kind of talk about this allday. I'm gonna I'm gonna condense it,
so I think for me, firstand foremost are the new Work Earthworks,
which I talked about last time Iwas on the show. They date
between one hundred to five hundred CE, and they actually consist of several different
mounds or earthworks, the Great CircleEarthwork, the Octagon Earthwork, and the
(08:56):
Right Earthwork. And just as Imentioned last I was going to show just
a treasure trove of Native American cultureand traditions there for those interested. We
found a lot of pottery shirts,we found a lot of copper um,
copper works, um and Semitic inscription, so that's probably my favorite. Of
(09:20):
course, there's also Poverty Point,which is another mound in West Carroll Parish,
Illinois. It's actually not just onemounds, multiple mounds. They labeled
them ABC D E F and thoseare super old drew those go back to
seven teen hundred to one thousand BCUM, so much older than the Newark
(09:41):
earth Works. M You have theSerpent Mound in Adams County, Ohio,
which is really fascinating. That's thirteenhundred and seventy six feet long and built
likely around three twenty BC, sothat that's really old as well, I
(10:01):
guess the last mound I'll mentioned,and there's some other architectural sites that aren't
art mounds at all but are actuallypretty cool, um, pretty awesome.
But the cohokey of mounds in Illinois, Monks Monk's Mound is there, which
is pretty well known all these considered. It's a famous, very well known
(10:26):
copper works facility. It's the largestpre Columbian earthwork, but it dates late.
It dates to around one thousand oreleven hundred CE, though I have
some more stuff to say about thatlater because it may not be as late
as people traditionally ascribe it. Butbut very fascinating, especially in its connection
with the Giza Pyramid, which I'lltalk about, which I would love to
(10:48):
talk about later on. And thento wrap it up, just a few
that I think are just really cool. Unmount related, you have Mystery Hill,
which is basically Americas Stoneheage in NewHampshire. Um, we don't know
who built those, We don't actuallyknow the date for those for that site,
saying with Costa Grant, the CostaGrand Dat Ruins in Arizona. We
(11:09):
don't know who built those, Wedon't know the date of those sites,
but basically just a large stone structure. Now, one of my favorites outside
of the mounts. Just to kindof conclude here is h Cliff Palace in
Messaverta National Park in Colorado. Theseare things that are built into This is
a whole freaking city built into stone. M It's fairly recent. Again,
(11:30):
that's kind of questionable. They're sayingabout eight hundred years but we know it's
occupied eight hundred years ago, butwhen it was actually built, we're not
sure. But it's right into it'sbuilt right into the mountain itself. Really
crazy if you ever get to lookit up, if you ever google it,
um look at the pictures. Prettypretty amazing wonders. So all of
these things are are things that youknow, not a lot of people know
(11:52):
about, the public doesn't know about. But amazing architectural foods just as amazing.
It's where you get in South Americaand what you get in the Old
World in Egypt and it stoneheads andin other places. Yeah, and so
it's just kind of curiosity. Isthat last one that you mentioned in Colorado.
Is that the one that's near Gardenof the Gods kind of kind of
close to Colorado Springs there, Ithink so, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(12:13):
And I believe that, Like so, I've been there. I lived
in Denver for several years and Iused to go to Garden of the Gods
quite frequently and just happened to cruiseover there and check it out one day.
And I want to say that,like all of the materials and signs
and whatnot that you can read asyou're working your way through the site,
they point to the pueblos as yeah, that's that's to your point who inhabited
(12:35):
it eight hundred years ago? Butum, there's definitely some some mystery and
control. Vocy wrapped a on thatsite too. Yeah, yeah, there's
a lot of I mean, anddoctor gray Little's talked about this as well
with his Adunis of an Origin's book. Um, there is some leadway because
we don't know if the people arehaving the sides of the same people who
(12:56):
built the sites or maybe built,oh for an earlier site. Um.
This is especially true with the CohokiaMound and Monks Mound, which seems to
date pretty late. Like I said, that's well into the common era eleven
hundred CEM. But there's some actualfunky stuff happening was that as well.
It's just mind bending because when youwhen you think about ancient megalithic sites,
(13:18):
right at least at least for me, when I think about those, when
I contemplate them, my mind immediatelygoes to, um, you know,
like the showboaty sites if you will. Where you've got Giza, You've got
go Beckley Teppi, You've got literallyeverything in Peru and Bolivia, um,
you know, Mayan cultures and inMexico and whatnot. It's just I feel
like we take for granted what's inour own backyard um and and it's just
(13:41):
it's pretty crazy to think about allof the things that exists here in North
America that um, for the lackof a better term, are neglected,
uh not not in terms of likeupkeeper maintenance or exploration or investigation, but
like it's just not a thing thatwe often think about as it being grand
noise as you know. Uh yeah, I think we're very much intat mindset.
(14:05):
I know you guys are racists.The last time we talked that pre
Columbus, you know, basically Americaand especially North America really didn't have any
type of history, and that's that'sjust not true. And so I think,
you know, I think it's kindof the tradition that we've inherited in
our history books, in our textbooks, and in a lot of cases,
(14:26):
whether deliberately or not, a lotof these really amazing architectural sites were destroyed.
Um. Some just by you know, they want to build up a
shopping center or something they were theywere destroyed, and others more deliberately.
But we don't even the sites wehave, sadly enough, as glorious as
they are, we don't have themin their in their full glory. And
(14:48):
a lot of cases, especially withthe Newark Earthworks, a lot of those
uh, they speculate that there werea lot there were several other more mounds
uh that were likely destroyed. Soum, So that's kind of sad that
well, you know, you'd mentionedlike we don't have them in their their
glory, you know, right,like they're not. There's a lot of
stuff that has been destroyed. Um. I'm also wondering if we have like
(15:11):
a complete understanding whether we're talking aboutthe mounds in Michigan or Ohio or Illinois,
West Virginia, Mississippi. I mean, in your article the mound Builders
in the Egyptian origin of America's Pyramids, you cover a lot of terrain there.
You're focusing specifically on these different moundstructures which are very pyramidal in shape,
but most of them have like almosta plateau or a flat surface.
(15:33):
So yeah, my question is isthat intact that being the history? Do
we know who built these things?And like when do we do we have
any under ideas to to like anepoch behind these things. That's that's a
great question. And the very simpleanswer to that is yes and no,
(15:56):
leaning more towards than no. Sowe label If you look at the academic
literature even now, even in thetwenty first century, they'll say, you
know, we cannot specifically label thecommunity that built these mounds. They just
call them generically the mound building cultures. I think the great example of this
(16:18):
is with the Mississippi culture that builtthe mounds in the American South. They
just call them Mississippi culture and theirsubstruent of that Mississippi culture. Now for
the earthworks and for the mounds thatare in kind of the Midwest region.
Scholars, most archaeologists would say thatthey were built by two groups, the
(16:41):
Adena and the Hope Well. Butget this true, this is not their
actual names. Those names are givento those people from the dudes who basically
excavated or found stuff in those regions. So I think one dude was named
Hope Well, the other one wasnamed a Dina or something like that.
So we actually don't know, justbased on the archaeological record, we don't
(17:03):
actually know the names of the groupsthat constructed these mounds. But I do
think and this is where I thinkyou have to think outside of the box
and kind of move away from theconclusions that mainstream academia has has drawn.
And I think this is where youknow, independent research, independent study is
(17:26):
so important. I think there areother clues within the culture that give us
a clear identification as to who thesepeople are. So in short, in
short, I think that mainstream academicwill say, no, we don't really
know, we can't really give aname to the particular culture who built these
mounds. But I think my ownopinion is that if you look at some
(17:52):
of these traditions and the artifacts foundin these regions, I think you can
trace them to a particular culture,which is why I talk about the egypt
Israelites in my writings. Yeah yeah, yeah. So two questions for you.
First, Um, at one ageor if ever, did you stop
using the the the the mental moniker, the m I SSI s Sippi,
(18:15):
the little thing from a kid whenanytime you had to spell Mississippi. Um
that you know that the important questions, Adam, those always coming up first.
I still us Yeah yeah, Iwas running down my notes, I
start to say to my head.So so then my second question, though,
this is a real grown up question. Now, UM, I'm almost
wondering, if you know, whenwhen we're talking about these sites, especially
(18:38):
down in Mississippi. You know ScottWalter who's been on the show before,
he has done some work investigating thepossibility that the Mayan people made their way
up into parts of South America,southern United States, like into Georgia,
for example, and he's been umcomparing the analysis of I believe it was
it was paint fragments and whatnot toconfirm whether or not that they had had
(19:03):
migrated up into the Georgia area longlong, long ago. So I'm almost
wondering like you know that culture wasvery much steeped in megalithic architecture, megalithic
construction. Have you spent much timenoodling on whether or not like we're we're
potentially looking at remnants of Mayan presencein America. I mean, if if
(19:23):
we don't know the name of thecultures who built these things, we don't
know whether or not they occupied them, or built them or built on top
of previously built structures, Like,have you spent much time contemplating that?
Adam, Uh, that's a reallythat's a really good question. M.
I love Scott Walter's work. I'vebeen watching his American on Earth since god
(19:45):
knows how how long, but itcame back on the Travel Channel. Um.
Just an amazing, amazing Scott,amazing researcher. Um. That's a
really good question. I mean,I think, um and I am guilty
of this tendency so much true whicha clear distinct ship between North and South
America. You go over the Mexicanborder, that's the South America that you
can't and there's no there's no interactionbetween the two. But that that border
(20:08):
is really in our mind, thatborder has never really existed yea, and
I think that, Um, it'sperfectly plausible that there was mine influence into
North America and the same vice versathat whoever these now billion people were,
went into the Maya culture and possiblyinfluenced them. Um, that's something I
(20:30):
need to research more. I'd bevery interested in kind of seeing you know
what comes to that. I cantell you that the most recent issue of
Ancient American Magazine, which is amagazine I sometimes contribute to. I love
this work. Um, they actuallytalked about the possibility of a Mayan temple
(20:52):
pyramid in North America. So notjust Walter's work, but several of their
scholars have been arguing from mind influencein North America as well. That's something
that I would definitely like to lookinto more and see as there a Maya
you know, Egyptian type of hope, well Adena type of connection on it.
(21:15):
And you know, I think thisgoes to a larger issue of you
know, Diffusianism, cultural Diffusianism.Um, how are these cultures? Uh?
What I should say? Let mereframe that, why are these cultures
doing things and where they're doing anddo you just wake up and say,
you know, I'm going to builda pyramid. Um, probably not.
I mean, we see similarities amongstall these cultures, and I think you
(21:37):
know that there is exchange and interchangeamongst all these cultures. Yeah, it's
really really crazy, like the rabbitholes that open up in the mind when
you when you start to look atall of the possibilities, Um, and
you you were like you said itso well, Adam, like that border
exists in our mind because some dudedrew it on a map. Right,
(22:00):
It's not a thing. It's nota real thing outside of like what we've
allowed it to become. And sowhen you remove that from the equation,
the possibilities and rabbit holes just man, they become endless. And so I'd
like to jump down a rabbit holewith you right now. Man. So
in that article that you wrote forthe website, you present some pretty gnarly
(22:22):
parallels, specifically to like the dimensionsof the Ohio Mounds and the Geesea pyramids,
and holy shit, if anybody outthere has not looked at that,
I am please pause this and goread that article real quick, and then
when you're done scooping the remnants ofyour brain off the floor, come back.
And then jump back into get Getget Adam's take on that firsthand.
(22:45):
So Adam hit us with that,walk us through those correlations, those connections,
and then just hit us with like, what do you think we're looking
at here? I know we've alreadymentioned diffusionism, but but I just from
the horse's mouth, what do youthink we're seeing here? Well? This
this blew my mind. I rememberthe first time I heard about the parallels
between the North American mounds and theGiza period. It was from Frank Joseph.
(23:08):
And he's written several books on Earthin Ancient America, Ancient Technology of
the America, of the North Americans. He's written several books on this,
and when he mentioned it, Ithink he mentioned it also on your show.
I was like, dude, eventhough I have like the highest respect
and highest regard for Frank Joseph,if I was like, is this you
(23:29):
know? Could this possibly be true? And I started doing some research on
my own, and shocker, notreally shocking, Frank Joseph was absolutely right.
So for months mound, the dimensionsof it, basically the base of
the mound is the same exact sneakingdimensions as the Geeza pyramid, thirty thirteen
(23:55):
point one acres or five point threehectarism. This is a type of stuff
that someone like myself who is verymuch, very much advocates Dithusian model.
This seems to be a clear cutconnection between the culture of ancient the architecture
of ancient Egypt, and the architectsof North America. Now, before I
(24:22):
go on, I want to kindof address a criticism that someone will immediately
raise, if you know, iflisteners are paying attention to the beginning of
the show, I know that Monk'sMound is usually dated between one thousand and
eleven hundred CEES, so it's kindof late. But there's a couple of
things going on here. They haveto be taken into sistation one and duration.
(24:45):
Academic durmasial archeologists is going to acknowledgistsas well that that date is taken
from the peak of whatever culture wasthere, So it's possible that those mounds
to earlier. It shots that thosemounds were used at that excuse me,
that site at its peak was usedaround eleven hundred ce UM. But there
(25:14):
is a lot of evidence um thathas been uh that independent researchers raised that
this site was occupied by earlier buildingstructures and the same uh. So you
have the same dimensions, but therewas an older site there on those dimensions
that dates too much earlier than theCommon Era. It seems to have been
(25:36):
used uh much later by native byother Native American groups um so um I
mentioned before doctor uh doctor Greg Little, he notes this phenomenon to out North
America. How you have a reallyspeaking old ancient site that uh, the
(25:56):
original inhabitants like die out, theygo extinct, and then later inhabitants come
and say, oh, this isreally you know, amazing, this must
be some type of sacred site,and uh they housed themselves there. So
um the Monk Mound, even ifit dates the Common Era, were possibly
looking at a place whose dimensions parallelwith the dimensions of the Giza Pyramid,
(26:19):
uh were was possibly built and usedmuch much earlier. We see this actually
all the time in Western history withum, with Christian churches so uh in
England, in Ireland, um,in Germany. There will be the sacred
(26:40):
sites that the Druids and that thepre Christian Europeans had, um and Christians
will be like this is a sourceof great power so they'll build their churches
on these familier sites. Does thatmean that the site only dates to when
that church was built. No,the site has a longer, a much
longer history than that. But itwas used by later um later inhabitants because
(27:03):
they said that there were some typeof power or sacredness there. Man.
But for me, Um, Yeah, for me, Monk's Mound is one
of the clearest examples, along withthe New Yorks Earthworks, of cultural diffusionism.
I don't think it gets uh,it gets better than that. It's
kind of like the smoking gun atthis point, right, I think so,
I think so, yeah, damand so one thing that I can't
(27:25):
help, but like, and I'mnot trying to take us back to um,
you know, Central America, butI'm gonna sorry, you know.
So, like we have the pyramidal, like the base perimeter, you know,
the measurements that the dimensions there betweenOhio and Giza just being so in
line with each other. And that'sbonkers. And yes, that that points
to diffusionism. Um, have youhad any conversations or spend time researching the
(27:52):
Teo Teo tiucon connection as well?Right, So we have that pyramid being
eerily similar or to Giza as well, and so like when when I hear
the the Ohio Mounds being reminiscent ofGiza, in my mind, I'm connecting
all three of those as more ofa UM like. Okay, now we
have like a pattern here. Wehave potentially a like global UM initiative or
(28:18):
this could be UM like refugees almostof some kind of ancient law civilization that
was displaced coming out of that UM, you know, episode of human human
history and using the knowledge that theyalready had pre cataclysm to reboot and rebuild,
(28:38):
but the location was dependent upon wherethey were displaced. Two yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, whatdo you like? What are your thoughts
on that? I think that's areally good point. I know, Frank
jose if he argues for kind ofan Atlantean UH source basically slow civilization that
(28:59):
through a massive delusion or catastrophe UMhad basically the survivor of that retained U
the architectural knowledge of this law civilization. And I do think you know that
is that is a possibility UM.I also and this is something UM that
I think we talked about a littlebit last off. I was on the
show UM. I think you havedifferent migrations at different times, So it's
(29:25):
possible that the South American structures theymight have been influenced by any Egyptian type
of culture themselves. And I thinkthat, you know, beyond the pyramids
themselves in South America, there area lot of other connections in just the
cultural traditions and the artifacts and stuffthat have been found there. Uh that
(29:47):
kind of point to a to anear Eastern um connection. And I know
that, um, there are thereare some scouts, particularly uh within the
field of kind of Mormonism. Ican talk more about that leader who would
argue for kind of a direct dependenceon Egypt. Uh, excuse me,
(30:10):
a direct dependence on Egypt with themind tradition. HM. So, just
like you open your article with themic drop and the sexiest shit ever,
you're gonna you're gonna do that tous right now, aren't you just gonna
tease it? And I think it'sa good time though too. Like we
do have to take just a quickbreak, but when we come back,
let's let's jump back in, gofull rip and keep keep exploring this rabbit
(30:33):
hole. Some more from Adam Stokesafter the break, all right, friends,
(31:11):
Welcome back to this week's episode ofLost Origins, a very special and
unexpected episode that we wanted to dropto help with staying inside. So this
episode is brought to you by washingyour hands. This week we are connecting
with our friend and homie, AdamStokes. Before the break, we were
digging into one of his articles thathe had written for the Lost Origins website,
(31:33):
the Mound Builders in the Egyptian originof America's Pyramids. Man, what
one hell of a ride, andwe were talking about the Ohio Mounds,
the connections to Giza, and beforethe break, Adam he had started to
tease a little bit about diffusionism,but we had also started kind of poking
at the bear that is the Bookof Mormon in true choose your own adventure
(31:56):
fashion. I'm going to let youjust steer us down chever path. You'd
like to take us right now,So pick your poison and let's do the
thing. I'll start with Docusianism becauseI think that we'll lead into discussions of
the Book of Mormon. So inmainstream academic circles, the common model is
(32:20):
the migrationist model, especially and lookingat the approach and looking at the history
of ancient America. So you havethe Clovis model people coming through the Bearing
Straight and settling into America. Idon't want to dismiss that completely, but
(32:42):
I think you have going on alsomigrations of other groups into the region from
various from various places in the world, not just the Bearing Strait, and
over various times, and bringing theirculture and their religion into play in North
America. And so what scholars likemyself arguing for is difusionist model, which
(33:09):
is where you have a transaction ofcultural traditions, interaction of cultural traditions between
groups separated by long distances, andnot just with North America, but in
general. Mainstream archaeology tends to shyaway from that. The want of everything
is migrationists. But there are timeswhen this can't be disputed. So for
(33:31):
example, with the Vikings. Youknow, the Vikings came to North America,
they built sites here that can't bedisputed. So there are times whe
mainstream archeology and mainstream academia has toadmit evidence for Difusianism, but it usually
doesn't like to. When they eachmainstream scholars talk about divisionists, and they'll
(33:52):
usually relegated to the back of theirbook, to the appendix of their book.
I think one of my favorite books. I love this book Ancient Native
Americans. It is written by amainstream scholar, and he has a whole
and basically a fascinating chapter on Diffusianismfrom Egypt and from the Phoenicians. But
(34:13):
he includes it in the appendix ofhis books, so you don't even if
you're like, if you're reading itand you don't read apendixist, you're not
even going to notice that. Soand this is kind of I mentioned this
because this is kind of the generalattitude that mainstream academia has towards diffusionism.
But I think that in North Americayou have clear cut examples of cultural influence
(34:37):
from the old world going to thenew. I've always struggled with just like
the opposition to diffusionism in general.I mean, if there's so many reasons
why it makes sense, whether you'retalking, you know, toward hired All
and the Kontiki, or you're lookingat different you know, Petricklyffe sites in
California that like guys like Karl Lerbergerpointing to, I mean, it's it's
(35:00):
everywhere. It's all over UM.And it's not just megalithic sites or you
know, petroclyft sites or some ofdude that built a raft either. I
mean if you look at um likeagriculture for example, UM, and and
the specificity is escaping me. SoI apologize, but I want to say
that I read an article, uhthat that you know, somebody had done
(35:22):
the research looking at a very specificseed that is very common and indigenous to
um western South America and that beingfound um, you know in the middle
of the ocean where you know,over by where the Rapa Nui people are
with with the moi. UM.It's it's just it's it's mind bending,
right, and that kind of thatkind of stuff is not an accident.
(35:44):
I mean, yeah, yeah,that's you mentioned. UM. I'm glad
you mentioned the agricultural evidence. JohnSorenson has a whole list, um,
He's worked closely with biologists, awhole list of plants and vegetables that are
not indigenous to North America and couldonly have been brought over here by different
(36:07):
groups over long periods of time.Charles mankind of does the same thing in
his fourteen ninety one book talking aboutjust the evidence for cultural Diffusianism cultural interaction
in the form of the agriculture,asking the agriculture that we find in North
America, right, right, Soyou know, when we're looking at diffusionism,
(36:31):
we're making these connections here. Ijust can't help but wonder, like,
are any of these mounds that you'rereferencing in this second article, right,
Biblical temples in North America? Areany of these Is there any overlap
between these mounds and the mounds thatyou describe in your first article the Mound
Builders in Egyptian Origin of America's Pyramids? And if so, like, what
(36:52):
does your mind do with that possibility, Like, what do you think the
larger scale implications could be if ifthat is you know the case, Yeah,
I think um, I think it'sdefinitely definitely overlap. I think so
the book that I've referenced in BiblicalTemples, the Mound Builders, the scholar
(37:15):
there, Smell is actually Schnell isactually looking at the Newark Earthworks in Ohio,
which is one of the mounds thatI mentioned in the previous article of
the Mound Builders and the Egyptian Originsof America's Pyramids. And not only does
the temple there that Schnell describes mirrorkind of the dimensions and the structure that
(37:40):
we get in the ancient or Eastwith the Shilow Temple, the shallow tradition
that's mentioned in First Samuel, Samuelsleeping in the Chamber. We have the
same exact thing with the Hopewell Templethere, but we found we found a
new work various cultural artifacts. Areyou subscriptions that are Semitic which are suggesting
(38:02):
direct cultural influence from the Near Eastas well? Um? So, and
which is which is fascinating? Uh, fascinating too for sure? For sure?
It's it's yeah, the the likeI said earlier, the rabbit holes
are abundant when we're looking at thesethese connections and these possibilities here. So
(38:24):
let's do this. Hit me withthis, the Book of Mormon connections,
Like, how does the Book ofMormon tie into this entire mystery? I
feel like that's that is, like, you know, one massive piece that
on the surface doesn't apparently like doesn'tseem like it fits into this puzzle at
least for me. So like walkme through that, help me understand,
(38:45):
Like how how all of that tiesinto what we're looking at here? Yeah?
Yes, So, UM, theBook of Mormon claims to be an
ancient record of uh, basically NorthAmerica. Now, when you hear the
Book of Mormon, I think areligious text, but too certainly is.
But the person who claimed to translateit based in the founder of Mormonism,
(39:05):
Joseph Smith, he understood it firstand foremost as a historical account. UM.
And so I prefaced this. Imentioned this because it's easy to when
you hear the Book of Mormon andAltruck and just say, oh, this
is you know, a religious thisis a religious text, but it's also
meant to be a historical documentation ofthe history of the ancient inhabitants of North
(39:30):
America. UM. And where youum and when it was originally published?
Um, it was published kind ofyou if you ever can get a facsimile
of the eighteen thirty edition of theBook of Mormon, UM, they sell
them from like twenty five or twentynine dollars on Amazon. UM. I
have one here on my bookshelf.But it looks basically like basically your your
(39:54):
standard nineteenth century history book. Soit's basically book or you know, historical
novel. UM. It doesn't haveversus or anything like that. So UM
this UH scholars point to this andsay, you know, Joseph Smith really
thought of this as a history book. Now, the circumstances around it,
um are are controversial or debatable.UM. But if it's if it's claiming
(40:19):
to be UM. If we takethe claim that it that it's a history
book and that tells the history ofancient inhabitants, UM, then it gives
us some insight as to who theidentity of the mound builders might be.
And I mentioned earlier that mainstream scholarsstill UM are reluctant to give a specific
identification, UH to to the moundbuilders. So we give them names Hope
(40:44):
well aDNA, Mississippi culture, Mississippianculture, UM, but we don't actually
connect them with a specific group.UM. But in the Book of Mormon,
UH, architectural structures very simile smiliarto the mounds are mentioned and described,
(41:04):
but they're attributed specifically to Near Easternrefugees who came over after the destruction
of Jerusalem or slightly befecuting slightly beforedestruction of Jerusalem in five eighty six PC
to North America. So I thinkif that claim that it's an ancient document
(41:25):
it claims to be translated from metalplates, and we do know, not
trying to be a religious apologist here, but we do know that both in
North and South America, metallic platessilver plates were used to record to record
things. We even have this inthe Near East with the Dead Sea scools,
(41:45):
so we have the coquer School ofIsaiah, which was used to write
the Book of Isaiah for the DeadSea crew community. So we do have
evidence of this and the Book aWoman claims to be from similar metallic plates
as an ancient record. And ifthat's then if that is the case,
big if there, I understand that. But if that is the case,
I think it goes a long waytowards helping us identify who these actual mound
(42:10):
builders were. And I think thatwhen you take what it says in relation
to the archaeological evidence, to submittedconscriptions that we've found, the dimensions of
the mounds, the structure of themounds which parallel Egyptian and Israelite structures,
then I think that the supports adiffecientist view of Near Eastern as I like
(42:32):
to call them again, egypt Israelitesmigrating, maybe several migrations over a long
course of time, maybe only acouple of migrations over a short period of
time, but definitely migrating to theNew World, to North America and settling
there. So what kind of workis currently being done to just like further
the exploration of the connection here andthe possibilities that you just shared with us,
(42:55):
think is is that an ongoing effortthat you're aware of or dissipating in
um? Yes, not a um. So A lot of the work that
I can do is basically on myown as an independent scholar, But there
are Mormons in the field, sothe Just Smith Foundation, groups like that
(43:16):
which try to find these connections betweenbasically the old world and the news.
So there was recently it's own AmazonPrime video if you have the chance to
watch it, since we have plentyof hours of time. That's all I
got right now, man, Yes, but actually tracing a kind of taking
(43:39):
the Viking migration to the United Statesand showing kind of Israelite connections with the
Vikings, so you have kind ofhave a double dose Ditesianism, as I
like to call it. There.And then, as I mentioned before,
John Sorenson's work really looking at kindof the agricultural evidence for Dihuesianism. A
(44:04):
lot of Mormon scholars will place theBook of Mormon actually in a South American
setting. Um, I'm one ofI'm one of a group known as kind
of the Great Lakes people who placeit in the North American setting. So
there's a lot of research being doneon kind of the South American connections to
the Old World, to the Nearto the Near East, and so more
(44:30):
mental point too. For example,Coco Kan and the Great Bearded White God,
the Great Serpent as being there area lot of parallels, actually,
some very interesting parallels between how thatGod is described and how Jesus is described
in the New Testament. Um,so some some very interesting stuff going on
(44:53):
there. Yeah, there's definitely somereally cool connections there. And I've spent
a ton of time just poring overthat and uh, you know, trying
to make sense of the striking similaritiesthat you find between the two. So
let's let's do this, like,because we're almost at our time, and
I want to respect yours, andI know that you've got a little one
(45:13):
sleeping at home, and again Iappreciate the hell out are you making time
for this conversation today. But likeso for for our listeners out there,
who you know, they just gothit with all this information and uh,
it was rapid fire and it wasa lot, and thank you. UM
do you have any resources or umlike directions that you can point them in
(45:34):
to allow them to continue to digin and and explore all these different similarities
and connections that we're seeing in NorthAmerica. Like, what's the best resource
for people out there to continue thisthis quest? Yeah? Yeah, Well,
first of all, I'm want togive a shout out to Ancient American
Magazine and Wayne May I think,um, just for the lay person,
(45:55):
for the common reader, you'll findthe best information about ancient North America and
evidence for Doctusianism in that magazine.UM. That magazine, UM was edited
by Frank kose Of, who's writtenseveral amazing books on Ancient America. UM.
Just google him. His books willcome up, and UM you'll find
(46:20):
those those are those are great resourcesfor people. Amazon Prime, Yes,
I keep pushing Amazon Prime because I'vebeen watching a lot of them lately in
the Quarantine. But they have severaldocumentaries, one entitled Demound Builders, as
well as The Quest for the NewsFights that I mentioned earlier UM that talk
(46:40):
about Diffusianism. The latter video iskind of for a Mormon context, but
if you want UM one that justgives a general a really good detailed overview
UM from kind of a purely academicstandpoint, the Mound Builders would be would
be your documentary. UM. Ialso have a couple of articles out Drew
(47:02):
mentioned them on Lost Origins. Ialso have a book out that recently was
published, From Egypt to Ohio,which looks at this topic directly. So
I think any of those places,especially Asian American Magazine, would be a
great starting point for you. Man, that's amazing, Well listen at them.
It is always such a pleasure talkingto you. We we we appreciate
(47:24):
the hell out of you here atLost Origins. I'm I'm really really grateful
for you know, for the hourthat we were able to spend together today.
UM. It's good to talk shopand you know, just talk about
some stuff that you know is notcurrently pervasive on the news or social media.
And so my hope is that youknow, our listeners out there,
(47:44):
you know, we're able to kindof unplug for an hour and just enjoy
using the noodle for something else,you know, Yes, yes, we
all need to do that. Yeah, agreed, agreed. Well listen to
my friend, um, stay safeout there, wash those hands. You
know, look at the over thesilver lining moments that life is providing us
right, you know, with rightnow, with with being able to be
(48:05):
home with the kids, if,if, if that's your situation, we
hope that you guys make the bestuse of the time and stay healthy.
My friend, thanks true saying toyou stay safe. I appreciate that by
now, man, I cannot sayenough. It's one of nicest on the
(48:25):
face of the so knowledgeable about allof the different subjects and topics that exploring
that he can explain conversations with himare such a good time. So I
don't know what to expect. Idon't know whether or not we're going to
be dropping an episode next week.I can tell you that we're going to
(48:46):
do everything that we can to keepcontent flowing. Like I said at the
beginning of the episode, m wehave some stuff to talk about as it
relates to you know, how couldwe approach production during the here and now?
But we are not ready to BabeRuth. The shot on the schedule
for for releases. But what Iwill say is jump onto social media,
(49:07):
jump onto the website, link upwith us somehow, and just help us
build a list of the different gueststhat you guys would like to see.
We will do what we can tomake it happen. We want to make
sure that you guys have resources andcontent and episodes of the show to consume
while we are, you know,going through the social distancing and the stay
at home approach to life that isthe new norm. So just make sure
(49:30):
that you guys are sharing with uswho you would like to have come on
the show, because we want tomake sure that we're building content and episodes
that you guys are going to enjoythe most. Right so make sure that
you guys smash that subscribe button,link up with us on social media,
let us know what you're reading,let us know what you guys are exploring,
let us know how you're using thetime. Make sure you wash your
hands and don't touch your face becausethat's important, and just stay safe out
(49:54):
there. Right world is a crazyplace right now, It's it's pretty insane
what's happening. But at the endof the day, if we all do
our part, we will definitely beable to overcome this. So until next
time, I'm Andrew and I challengeyou to question
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