Season 5 Episode 14: FEY Director Scott McElroy

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
You are listening to the IFH podcastNetwork. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dotcom. There are some questions I'd like
to ask you low Budget Rebels past. I don't tell me you're taking all

(00:26):
this seriously. All right, andwelcome to another episode of Low Budget Rebels
podcast. I'm your host, JoshStifter, and on this show, I
sit down with low budget, trulyindependent filmmakers, the people who were out
there figuring out their own ways toget it done and get their movies made,

(00:51):
and today is not anything different fromthat. I talked to Scott McElroy,
who directed a movie called Faye.He emailed me a while back and
it was interested in coming on theshow to talk, and we just never
made it happen. And I hadwatched the movie months and months ago,
and finally he reached out again whenI posted about it and was like,
hey, man, are you stillinterested in doing a chat sometime? And

(01:15):
I was, you know, downto talk to and to talk to him
about filmmaking. I really enjoyed themovie Fae, and certain things had stuck
with me from the movie that Iwas curious, like having watched it before
and then coming back to it,what do I remember what vibe with me
in a way? And do Iremember it the way I thought I felt

(01:36):
in the moment, And so Irewatched it before I podcasted with him,
which is the first time I've everdone that. I've never watched a movie
like a long time before and thenwatched it again like the day of and
had that experience of talking to someoneright after watching it having a expectation.
And I get into that a littlebit in this episode, and we talked

(01:56):
a little bit about that, thoseexpectations and stuff. But this was a
fantastic converse sation with Scott. Henot only are we on a similar wavelength
with our backgrounds, and not justin filmmaking, but in a lot of
things. We also have an interestingunderstanding of what has to go into low
budget filmmaking while also being completely polaropposites when it comes to technical ability.

(02:22):
The way he directs and the thingshe directs are very different from the way
I direct and the things I doin pre production and in production. And
I really enjoyed talking to someone whohas a very different style of getting things
done because it proves that you don'thave to be the most technical person,
or you don't have to. Youknow, on my side, you don't

(02:46):
have to have parents who are inthe industry, And on his side,
you don't have to, you know, go do the traditional route even if
you do, you know, livein Los Angeles for a time and do
have parents who have worked in theindustry and understand how it works. But
this is so it was such afascinating conversation to me. I'm also I

(03:08):
just at the top of this episodewanted to point out that I'm still creating
this Flush Studios Patreon filmmaking project.If you want to be a part of
the next Flush Studios film, thenext Josh Stifter moving picture or whatever,
um hop on to the Patreon ifyou really want to. You can subscribe

(03:30):
for twenty bucks a month. Youcan pay that in a yearly installment.
I don't remember what it is,but you can actually be a producer on
my next movie that I'm in theprocess of making right now. I started
it just a couple weeks ago.I'm doing videos as I'm making them.
I'm filming the entire process, doingmy personal Rebel without a crew style process,

(03:52):
and I'm super excited about it becauseit's I think the first time you
really get to see low budget filmmaking. Hopefully, from beginning to end we'll
see what happens. But my hopeis that you'll see from beginning to end,
from the day I was like,you know what, I figured out
what kind of a low budget movieI want to make, I'm gonna go
make it till the day I premiereit. I want you all to see

(04:14):
that entire process. So you couldbe a part an executive producer on the
movie by subscribing. But even ifyou don't have those kind of funds to
help with the movie, you canstill be a part of it. For
just a dollar a month. Youcan subscribe to the Patreon and watch the
videos, see the process. There'salready Week one is up there as of
right now. You can see myweek one process. And I'm not gonna
post every week. I'm not gonnamake it like obnoxious, but my plan

(04:36):
is to like consistently push out whensomething happens or when there is a forward
momentum on it, which should hopefullybe every couple of weeks. There will
be a new video, there willbe blogs, there will be insight into
the full process of making a featurefilm for very little, in the same
way that Robert Rodriguez did it onEl Mariachi. Hopefully we'll see We'll see

(04:59):
how it goes. That's the beautyof this. You get to watch me
fail and you get to watch mesucceed from my perspective, because I'm editing
these videos and everything, and that'sone of the things that as much as
I love Rebel without a Crew theseries, it wasn't edited by me.
I didn't get to show some ofthe failures that I really wish had been
shown. I didn't get to showsome of the successes or some of the
tricks that I think really help improveindependent filmmaking and help people get the most

(05:28):
bang for their couple of bucks literally. So Patreon dot com, slash Flush
Studios, if you want to helpout, go over there. I'm also
planning some things of how you guyscan be a part of the process,
any patrons can be a part ofthis process beyond simply you know, watching
it happen. I have some funideas for things we can do, so
hopefully as we go into production,I can make those happen, all right,

(05:51):
without further ado. Here is myI just I love this conversation.
You'll hear I'm giggling like a foolwhile I talked to Scott. It was
really really fun and one of thosepodcasts where you realize that you have a
new friend as you're talking, likeit's you know, we've chatted online and

(06:12):
stuff, Scott McElroy and I,but we've never really had a chance to
sit down and bullshit like this,and it was. It was really fun.
It was extremely fun. So Ihope you guys enjoy it as much
as I enjoyed having the conversation.All Right, without further ado, here
is my conversation with Scott McElroy.So I actually we are like talking about

(06:38):
doing this podcast a while ago,and I watched the movie like fae like
four months ago or something like that. So then today I'm like, it's
been so long since I've watched it, I have to go back and give
it another watch or I'm gonna likeI have totally am gonna look like a
fool forgetting everything that happened. SoI've actually watched your movie twice. I

(06:59):
think you're first guest that I've watchedthe movie twice before doing the show.
But before we get to Fae Scott, I was one. I'm curious.
I always love to ask this questionfirst because I feel like the way we
get into filmmaking is so fascinating fromeveryone. So like, what gave you
the itch to get into filmmaking andespecially to make faye Like, what brought

(07:23):
you to that place? Yeah?It was. It was a very I'm
gonna say, like probably maybe anon traditional road, not that maybe there's
probably very many traditional roads in it. I like, I have zero background
in film. I didn't go tofilm school. I applied to film school

(07:44):
to like some private, you know, fifty thousand dollars a year film school
that they accept everyone you know,back in high school and U and then
kind of decided against it. Myyou know, I grew up like a
film fanatic, like I would,like, you know, drive my parents

(08:05):
crazy, probably at video stores,spending like you know, two hours trying
to decide what to rent and goingthrough bargain bins and like finding all these
obscure DVDs and that kind of stuff. And like I, for the most
part, honestly like I was,I was just like an avid consumer.
But I I, like, youknow, I loved the physical media.

(08:28):
You know, I'm at least oldenough that there was like a VHS age
when we were growing up, andthen like and then, but for the
most part collecting DVDs and Blu raysand stuff, and I've still got binders
of probably seven or eight hundred ofthem, and it was just like I
loved holding it. I would likeread the jackets, I would read the

(08:48):
booklets, I would you know,I would be scouring anything I could defind
like behind the scenes stuff and outtakeswas a bonus speech. Oh yeah,
oh yeah, one hundred percent.That was me. That that was like,
you know, a lot of mychildhood was that, like you know,

(09:11):
and that's kind of all it was, I mean, my first kind
of introduction into thinking that filmmaking,you know, was an accessible thing.
There was a few different things,like when I was a kid, I
would always hear stories of my dad. So basically so I grew up in
small town southern Ontario and Canada,so like not a lot of people to
make movies, you know, likeyou don't know, you don't run into

(09:35):
a lot of people to make them, and and it just seems like an
unachievable goal now Basically what my daddid, you know in the seventies was
after high school, packed up abottom one way tick and went to LA
and he was a bodybuilder and hewas working on film sets. You know,
I think his official role on filmsets was the second day c's assistant,

(09:58):
you know, like yeah, ormaybe the assistants assistant, you know.
But he got to jobs that gotme into filmmaking as well. Like
when I was first trying to learn, it was just like take whatever job
you could get, filming the behindthe scenes or doing random give yeah.
And and that's what he was,you know, he was he was a

(10:20):
muscular guy. So like I thinkthey're hiring him because basically he could carry
the cables around and you know,deliver film rules and that kind of stuff.
But so he got to work onhe spent a couple, you know,
a couple of years in LA.Got to work on like Michael J.
Fox's first movie, Midnight Madness,this you know, weird little you
know kind of and uh and likeroller Boogie with Linda Blair and and that

(10:43):
kind of stuff. So we heardall those stories. And and also in
the bodybuilding world, he was kindof there during the Golds gym era,
the you know, the height ofthat world where it was Arnold and you
know all those guys. So hewas in those cles. So I grew
up hearing all these stories and seeingthese pictures and stuff until like, oh,

(11:05):
you know, like that's cool,but I never like wanted to be
on camera. I never wanted toyou know. It was just like to
me, the making of the moviewas the cool part, you know,
like that hearing, you know,and you know, every once in a
while when we would go say toToronto or something, you'd see film sets
and you'd see all the trailers andstuff every once in a while. And

(11:26):
then I started getting into in highschool, I started doing some extra work,
and like, you know, itwas just kind of like I'm sure
super awkward on camera, probably theone like you know, like wha,
this is the coolest thing ever makingLike I think at that point it was
like twenty five dollars a day andyou know, we got free lunch.

(11:48):
Cool, you know, but itwas it was you know, so so
that was kind of it was likealways something I wanted to do. And
I think probably most people even thenknew me growing up, knew I loved
movies. Knew that kind of stuff, but probably knew. I didn't know
I had aspirations to do any ofthis because it's like an insane thing to

(12:09):
even say you want to right rightlike in you know, like it's like
it's it's just not what people doaround here, and like you grew up
in the Midwest, right, Yeah, yeah, I grew up in Minnesota,
So yeah, definitely like north,way up north, middle of nowhere,
like no one has any idea.That concept of like making a movie

(12:33):
to anyone in the past was justlike that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard,
Like, shit, you're gonna gomake a movie exactly. But I
mean there was this element though oflike Minnesota nice where everyone was very you
know, no one would ever sayno, you're not gonna make a movie
or you're not gonna be a director. So I always had this like thing
in the back. In fact,I found this high school paper where it

(12:56):
was like write down what you wantto be when you grow up, and
had all the when you grow up, I mean, I'm in high school.
I should be fit figuring out whatI'm going to do at that point.
But it really was like we wentto a private I went to a
private high school where like I livedin a dorm and all of that stuff,
and it was basically like them tryingto convince us we should be pastors
the entire time. So like theconcept of me being like I want to

(13:18):
be a director or whatever made zerosense. But I think this was like
sophomore junior year I had this.I found this paper that I had written
this stuff down and it said likecinematographer and then it described what I wanted
to do. And essentially I wasjust too stupid to know that I wanted
to direct. Like everything I saidcinematographer sounded cooler or more like an attainable

(13:39):
job, but I it like literallylike cause I want to work with actors
and I want to do this kindof stuff. It's like all directing stuff
exactly. Yeah, and it's like, okay, well this sounds like a
more achievable thing. This is likethis is a trade, you know,
yeah, you're you're right, andand that's it. And so again,
like even I was like my pathwas I never went through, Like I

(14:05):
didn't do the high school av stuffI didn't do and even still like my
technical abilities are so limited, likeyou know, I was like the you
know, every every day there wassomething on set that I'm learning, and
I'm just kind of you know,going in like eyes wide open on everything.
But but yeah, I mean myafter you know, kind of throughout

(14:31):
high school, I started expanding alittle bit more and I never you know,
I would kind of watch all thesebargain bin things and everything I could
find, and like, you know, then kind of started getting into horror
a little bit more and and youknow, like a lot of the standard
stuff, Like I grew up kindof like right in the age of the

(14:54):
release of like Scream and I knowwhat you did last summer and that kind
of stuff like that was kind oflike my first like horror intro. And
then I kind of started saying,we must be about the same age.
Yeah, I'm thirty six, Yeah, totally yeah, And and that was
it, right, So so Igrew up in that and I was like,
you know, and then kind ofstarted gravitating towards Halloween and like really

(15:18):
loved that and that's kind of whatwe tried to capture a little bit in
Faye too. It was like myI just want we you know, we
didn't have a ton of it,but I kept envisioning all this like b
roll of like leaves blowing down thestreet and all that kind of stuff.
But so we did shoot it aroundHalloween. But uh, but yeah,
so I got into that and thenlike and that kind of opened my is

(15:41):
what started my horror you know entryand then obviously like my big ones were
like The Shining and pet Cemetery andthat kind of stuff. And I know,
like pet Cemetery gets shit on alot, but I always, you
know, like it was it wasone that stuck with me all the time.
Dude, I had never seen it, and I like, and I'm
an avid horror fan, but Ijust The Shining is one of my top

(16:03):
five favorite movies. But I'm nota big Stephen King fan, or I
wasn't until recently. Within this lastlike two years, I've gotten obsessed with
Stephen King. I've read through allof his stuff, and not all of
it because it's an insane amount ofwork, but for sure like a lot
of the classics and whatnot. Andso I actually just listened to the audio
book for pet Cemetery and then watchedany movie or version of it I could

(16:27):
find. Yeah, and that movieis awesome. The original Pet Cemetery is
so like the acting is so fun, it's so throwback, and yeah it's
got its cheesy eighties moments, butit's like such a blast. I thought,
oh, yeah, totally. Andand that was kind of you know,

(16:48):
there was like it was that kindof intro that started, you know,
because it wasn't like sure was itwas a studio horror movie, but
it was like even at that pointwhen we were watching it was you know,
twenty years old maybe, so itwas like kind of started looking into
some of some of the older stuff. And uh and then you know,
I then I kind of started gettinginto Hitchcock more. And I really loved

(17:11):
like we had like a high schoolfilm class that you know, we we
were watching a rear window and stuff, and I you know, and really
got into that. But but yeah, again, like so my like I
didn't. I kind of always consideredmyself more of a writer than anything.
And like because again because I didn'thave technical ability, and I was always

(17:34):
like this in like I was inbands growing up in high school too.
I played every instrument a little bit, but never good enough to you know,
actually play in a band. SoI was just a singer in a
band you sang and did you write? Did you write your own music?
Were you like a band that I'dwrite? I found that because I played
in bands who wrote all my ownsongs, and we were you know,

(17:55):
four chord band where you know,lead guitarist would just all you do is
like lead over four chords, andI would play four chords and sing.
I use the term singing very looselyscreen basically just make noise and Yeah.
But I found that one of thethings, like retrospectively, when I look
back, I think the songwriting becauseit is such a trunk caated form of

(18:17):
storytelling and figuring out creativity. Itreally was what led me to go,
I can make a movie because Iwould write, you know, an entire
song four minutes long or whatever,and then I would break it down and
do these parts. And it wasessentially the early stages of crafting a story
and figuring out the backbone of storytellingtotally one hundred percent, because you've you've

(18:37):
got kind of like an act structurein a song, right, and you're
thinking like, okay, here's where, here's how it ebbs and flows,
and you're right, like that's Ihad that exact same kind of realization.
I mean, I hadn't written asong in twenty years, but I was.
I always kind of had that,and like I always was writing something,

(19:00):
even it would be you know,just and that was the one thing
that I did, even in myhigh school years, we would write lots
of short stories and even like somecomics and that kind of stuff, right,
and like that's what to me.It was more accessible because it's like,
Okay, I just need like anotepad, Yeah I can, I
can do and just you know,and like most of the stuff, you

(19:22):
know, has never seen the lightof day. I actually just recently found
my old cringey note path, soI do it all the time. I
go to it like every couple ofyears. I'm like, I got to
read through this and see. Andthe best part is, like some of
those notebooks, I thought, yeah, dude, I'm well I can show
you I have. Literally my wifejust mocks me relentlessly because I have notebooks
everywhere. I always have notebooks withme, and I'm a hoarder of them.

(19:45):
I keep them all. I haveall the high school ones, all
my high school comics. But Ihonestly like most of them. Yeah,
most of it's cringey. But someof it I look back and I see
like a song lyric or, Isee something that I'm like, oh,
I'm gonna steal that from myself.That's that's actually what I did. Because
when I found this, I wasgoing through it with my wife and we
were like, I was like,I wouldn't even let her look at it

(20:07):
at first. Hell, we hada couple of drinks. We had a
couple of drinks, and I waslike, Okay, I'll read one of
them too, and you know,and but because this was around the time
too that remember when they released thatuh Kurt Cobain journal they like they they
it was like all the cop itwas all the copies of his journal.
Dude, I got it right here. Oh yes, amazing, amazing.

(20:33):
So I was reading that, youlike, it's amazing, that's so perfect.
Yeah, And that's what it was. You know, you're just like
in your angsty high school high schoolyears, writing and trying to recreate all
this like your version of all ofthis stuff. You know, like if
someone finds this when I die,you gotta you know, it's seriously And
that's why I got my mom gotme that for Christmas because she's like,

(20:56):
this is what you did, Like, this is like, this is the
way you wrote. And I lookedat it because I had never seen his
journals before, and I'm like,yeah, yeah, holy shit, this
is me, Like this is terrifying. Yeah exactly. Yeah, and that
was it, right, and likeso and I actually did the same because
I started going through and I waslike, yeah, I mean most of

(21:18):
it. I if I wasn't sucha horder, I would burn it also,
just so no one did find it. But I'm like I can't bring
myself to do it. But Iwas going through it, I was like,
okay, yeah, there's some likedecent. I was just like writing
in essays in them, you knowabout like society. Oh my god,
there's so many of mine. Ilike look back and I'm like, dude,
you were going to a private Christianschool. You wanna be like I

(21:41):
have like all things on like anarchyand shit, I'm like, what did
I know about anarchy? It wasjust like a fun symbol to draw,
basically, Oh yeah, one hundredpercent. Yeah. I went to a
private Christian school for eighth grade too, and it was it was like exactly
in this in this era, right, and it was, but yeah,
it's it's so funny because like II always it's like I knew I was

(22:04):
doing it at the time, butyou look back on it and you're I've
had to revisit a lot of thisnow because I'm writing like a comedy on
like early two thousands high school years, and you know, so I've been
re listening to all the old musicand and like just kind of getting back
in that headspace and and really tryingto own, you know, and lean

(22:29):
into the cringe aspect of it.Due it was so and so wonderful,
Like it's such a weird Like Iremember being in that period of time and
being like this is such a boringmoment in history, like nothing very cool.
And now I look back at itretro perspectively and I'm like, we
were so cringy and awesome and weirdand different, like we were totally like

(22:52):
the seventies, Like it was sucha weird moment for its style, like
everyone was so individual, like youlook at like a high school picture and
everyone dressed different, like every singleperson. There was no mindset of like
conformity. I love it. Ilove it. It's a perfect drop for
a movie. I'm I'm doing oneas well about the heist my high school,

(23:15):
like being in a dorm, beingin a private high school. Amazing.
Yeah, right now it's called FeelingUp Minnesota. I thought, so,
I'm yeah, so I'm like goingthrough like this concept of like we
were all watching American pie movies andlike horny as hell, but like not
didn't ever really act on it likethey did, like it was so wanna
be try hard exactly. I wasthe cliche running around with the go for

(23:41):
it, no no, go go. Yeah, that's exactly what we're leaning
into. Right. It's just likeand I keep as I'm writing it,
I'm like, man, is thislike too horny? But I'm like,
you know, it's not. It'sjust like it's like jokey. It's like
jokey horny, like you're just likeyou know, oh man, we have
a hot teacher now and you know, and just like it's like I'm trying
to like revisit how everyone how wewere like talking and just like everything you

(24:04):
focused on and that's exactly it.Like it's just like, hey, it's
it's honest, man, Like ifnothing else, that's awesome. That's I
find that fascinating because as we moveto talking about Faye, you it's not
I mean, it's got funny stuffin it. It's very like kind of
a mixture of things, but itdefinitely feels like you're a psychological horror fan

(24:29):
watching it. Like it's very likeit's very cerebral. So hearing that you're
learning on a comedy as well iskind of cool to me. Yeah.
Yeah, well and you know what, like I kind of so those are
the movies I kind of as wemove chronologically through, I kind of I
really started getting into then, right, So I think it was probably about
you know, midway through high schoolleading into colleg years. I found Usual

(24:53):
Suspects in a bargain bit and Iwas like this, I fucking love this
movie. Like whatever this is?Yeah, you know, it was just
so cool and and it's always stuckwith me. And it was that and
uh and honestly, again even froma young age, finding like sixth cents
and stuff like that, I wasjust like, okay, like I'm a

(25:15):
sucker for like a twist, likeeven if you know it's even if you
know it's coming, I'm a suckerfor it, right, And that's what
and and so you're right, like, that's what I That's where I've always
led and and even when I waswriting stuff in uh this was high school
years too, Like we wrote ashort story that was basically, you know,

(25:40):
we found out six months later thatit was that Johnny Depp Stephen King
one uh secret Gardener, Secret Window, and we wrote that and it was
like I even kind of drew onsome of that with fake kind of thing,
like man, this was so good, and we handed it in at
school and we went. I wenta few months later to go see the

(26:02):
movie with my friends, like theseguys stole our movie. And I was
like, oh wait, now it'sbeen a Stephen King for like ten years.
Never mind we stole it somehow.But but but yeah, I've always
been drawn to that, like I'ma sucker for a twist. I love
the the twists and turns and again, like another one was kind of like

(26:23):
Momento too, right, Like itwas just like I love the interweaving of
stories, and it was the difficultyin Fay was like okay, now we're
you know, we want to hintat it. Finding the pacing on it
was tough because it's like, okay, you know, we want to hint
at these things that are going on, and we're kind of jumping timelines and

(26:45):
that kind of stuff, and youknow, I think, and then obviously
giving the audience some credit, thatlike, Okay, we need to explain
some stuff, but we don't needto explain everything. I mean, I've
had some people watch it and say, you know, I was really confused
like in the middle of it,but then it all made sense at the
end. I was like, well, yeah, that's that's what I'm moving
right exactly. I'm glad. Yeah, but there was I was like,

(27:08):
okay, well, as long asit made some sense. But yeah,
it's that's definitely kind of what I'mmost drawn to. But but I always,
again, like I I was always, you know, I had a
softer side. I was always drawnto like a lot of mumble core stuff
too, and like, you know, I really loved like Swanberg and and

(27:33):
kind of what that crew is doing. And you know, I mean in
my younger uor too, I waslike full on sucker for Garden State and
like American Beauty. Yeah, man, I still live. I still put
the Garden State soundtrack on every oncein a while. And oh yeah,
but it also again even like kindof how that side into Faye too,

(27:56):
is that like it really solidified tome at a young age how important like
music was. And it's funny becausethe first things I started thinking, like,
oh, you know what I coulddo in movies is be and I
didn't even know what it was called. I was like, I could be
the person that picks the songs.Yea, yeah, I'm sure you know.
Like I was like, oh,well, I don't know what that

(28:18):
is, but I could do that. And then so that was like that
leading into Faye was a really bigcomponent of it. Now, obviously it's
based around musicians, but we fromfrom the onset. As soon as we
started getting into you know, preproduction from the beginning, I said,
like, it's a movie about musicians, but I don't want it to be

(28:41):
a music movie, right, likeso so it was a very when when
they're in the studio and the recording, like that was a decision because all
of the actors in the movie theplay musicians are real life like touring musicians,
so we could have you know,show some songs and stuff like that.

(29:02):
But it for I actually really likethe fact that it like doesn't do
there's something about it. That keepsall of that stuff really mysterious, and
you talking about the music. Infact, I was gonna bring that up
as a question, but you know, you're kind of answering it as you
go. But I like the factthat it plays with the score, especially
plays with like different tones, differentsounds, like it's cynthy for a bit,

(29:23):
and then it goes in a differentdirection. And I found it very
like unnerving because it doesn't just goI really like that because a lot of
score is one tone through the wholething, and then a couple of different
beats, you know, like acouple different songs, like soundtrack songs.
And I expected more soundtrack songs,especially on the second time, because my

(29:44):
memory of it was very like it'sabout musicians, it's like rock, it's
like very metally, and then watchingit, I'm like, God, there's
a lot of weird cynthy stuff,and now it's getting really like hollow sounding,
and like the score is, yeah, it's good, it's gonna sound
like negative. I'm gonna say,it's all over the place. But that
was like literally the direction I gaveto my composer on Greywood's Pot was I

(30:08):
was just like don't get stuck ina box of thinking everything has to sound
the same. This movie goes fromone like type of storytelling to a very
different type of storytelling, like andis going to jar the audience no matter
what we do. So if thescore can mimic that, great, So
that and I think your movie doesthat as well, where it's like the
soundscape and the score changes throughout itand it keeps me like guessing where it's

(30:33):
gonna go, like emotionally, yeah, I'm glad because that that's exactly what
we wanted. So basically what wedid there was we got you know,
we had a composer, Tasso's aGreek composer, you know who, who
gave us a full score on ouryou know, kind of our first cut,

(30:56):
and we watched it and we lovedlike what he did. He did
great work on it, but wekept thinking like, okay, like it
needs something more because we wanted toWe wanted to bring that out right,
is like I wanted to be becauseit's like a paranoia movie, Like I
wanted people to not know what's comingand to feel uncomfortable, right, Like
I kind of think like when youthink you know, there's certain scenes.

(31:19):
Like I remember when I first watchedlike uncut Gems, I was like,
man, I'm like physically uncomfortable watchingand I was like that's what I want.
Yeah, oh yeah, And Iwas like yeah, but you're supposed
to write and I was like,but I was like getting up out of
my seat and I was like,oh, I don't know. And then
when we kind of get to aswe build throughout it and as we get

(31:41):
to the end, kind of whenthe shit hits the fan, I still
watching it like get uncomfortable, LikeI'm like, oh, like I just
like I kind of want it,you know, like you're kind of like,
okay, like when is this scenegonna be over? Not just because
it's like like I feel physically uncomfortablekind of watching it. And when we

(32:02):
shot that scene, I did too, Like I was like basically, you
know, we got into it wherelike it was our last day. We
had like had to push production,we had to change people's flights home and
all this kind of stuff. Itwas like one in the morning when we
got to that and it's like thepivotal scene in the movie, and we
came in and it was just likekind of you know, it just wasn't

(32:24):
hitting right now. I was like, it needs to be chaotic. So
I like told Dylan, our soundguy was like, hey, just like
hover boom overhead, like capture whateveryou can. We're gonna make this seem
like a bomb's going off, likeyou know that like ringing in your ears
moment and like and so we did. And I it was like the only
time I freaked out on set,and it was more just to like get

(32:45):
something out of them. Like Iwas just like, hey, like,
don't worry about what the scripts as, like, just like just go for
it, right like bom just wentoff. You're in the trenches right like,
and and that's it. And thenso what we did was we had
Ben who plays Derek. He hewent back in and added all the synthie

(33:06):
score and all of that weird creepysound design stuff. He he added that
in when I when he sent thatto me, I like I was like,
okay, because you know, leadingup to then, every cutout would
watch, I was like, I'mgonna vomit. Yeah, you know,
like I was like, oh mygod, I don't know about this,
you know, like and obviously sure, it's it's far from perfect. There's

(33:30):
we made mistakes and all kinds ofstuff. But now as soon as I
saw that, I was like,okay, like there's there's something there,
you know, Like yeah, soso I'm glad we did that. And
and that's the benefit we had was, you know, our actors were musicians,
and even the minor roles they weretoo, right, So basically all

(33:52):
the music from the movie was contributedby everyone you see on screen. Oh,
that's awesome. I was curious aboutthat because you have some really cool
soundtrack moments and you know, there'ssome music playing and whatnot, and it
it felt like So that's one ofthe things I love about low budget filmmaking
is the fact that it's a chanceto embrace what you have around you and

(34:15):
the people you have around you andtry to like just pull in what you
have. That's what I did withyou know, Greywood's plot when I made
that, I mean, the Goodexorius is the same thing. I just
asked friends for music. I wasjust like, I got no money,
guys, anyone have a band thatwants to send me music, I'll take
it and we'll see where I canfit. And I love my soundtrack for
The Good Exorcists, but Greywood's plot. I was like, no one is

(34:35):
going to feel comfortable with a blackand white movie. It's just so challenging
to get them in. And it'slike half of it is like a comedy
about two morons in the woods,and then the second half is like batshit
crazy Island to Doctor Moreau's style.And I was just like, what can
I do to make people comfortable?So I just called on a few musician
friends and was like, hey,would you mind recording a rendition of this

(34:59):
public Don't Main song? And thislike Home on the Range, like songs
that no one knows where they evenoriginated. And they did it and contributed
those songs. You know, maybeI paid some of them something, but
I think most of them just gaveit to me for free. And it
was just utilizing the people who wantto help me succeed and also be a

(35:19):
part of something. And I nota single one of them turned to me
and was just like, I wishI hadn't put my song in your movie.
Like they all love it that it'sin there. Of course likes it's
a fun thing, and it's coolfor musicians to be able to do that,
right, Like I mean, forthe most part, Like we had
a few of our musicians, youknow, regularly licensed stuff and and that

(35:43):
kind of stuff, but a lotof them just don't write. So we
were able to kind of we wereable to pull on that for sure.
And then again because they they brought, they were so intimately involved in the
filming as well, because like,there's there's an aspect to it. And
I may be answering a question you'vealready got, but but there there there's

(36:07):
an aspect to it that like,so when I was writing it, if
we we can kind of step backto the beginning, because when I was
writing it, I had basically whathappened is I had a mutual friend with
the guy whose house we shot themovie in. I knew this guy that
uh bought a house in the mountains, the head of recordings, or that

(36:30):
he built a recording studio, andand you know, and I was like,
I saw one Instagram story that heposted and it was like, you
know, just it looked creepy,and I was like, Okay, I'm
just gonna write a movie about this. I didn't even tell him, didn't
do anything, and then like whenthe script was done, I just sent
it to him. I was like, hey, remember we met like three
years ago. Are you are youcool if I shoot a movie in your

(36:52):
house? And he was like fuckyeah, let's oh yeah. So then
and then that's when it really snowballedbecause I was like I was really banking
on that right, Like I wasreally banking on the ability to shoot there,
because, like he it's literally likeat the top of a mountain,
and you know, it's just it'sso it was so cinematic and like it

(37:14):
would be hard, hard to recreateanywhere else. So I uh yeah,
I sent that to him and hewas like, hey, I know,
he's like, it's crazy, howaccurate you wrote this story about because he
said, like there's a group ofus musicians that live up here, and
he said, and we're all witches. I was like, I was like,

(37:36):
oh what, Like he's like,yeah, we're all witches, like
practicing witches and wickens and like theyall live up there, and he's like,
all start reaching out to them andthat that's like half of who you
see on screen. So even whenwe did that, yo, yeah.
So so he made that come together. We really pulled that together, and
then we got to the point wherewe were like, okay, we've we've

(37:58):
got all these pieces. And atthat point, all the pieces were falling
into place, but I needed topull the trigger. I was like,
okay, I got to take timeoff of work for this. I need
to like know in advance, youknow, when we're gonna shoot this.
So I just like booked flights forme. My dad and my brother came
down with me, and they wereand that was our crew, and and

(38:22):
so we we booked flights but wedidn't even have a DP yet. We
didn't have a sound guy yet.We didn't even have a lead actor yet.
So like because we had casted oneand he was, you know,
he's he's a NEPO baby in theindustry, and he was he's a great

(38:43):
guy, but he was like hedidn't need us right like so and he
was kind of noncommittal, and Iwas like, Okay, we got to
like pull the plug on him.We got to find someone else. So
like maybe three weeks out we hadto recast and and then so we and
within like two weeks before we gotour lead actor and we got our DP

(39:04):
and sound and like, thank godwe did, because who knows what we
would have done. We had theflights. But uh and and so our
our DP Shelby was part of thatcrew. She she lived there and or
used to live there and was inthe you know, Cressline Witch crew.

(39:25):
So it was like very well integratedwith everything, Like it was a real
full immersion thing, like we werekind of it's almost half documentary because you're
like we were there and we're like, wait, all this stuff is happening
right now, Like we didn't evenplan these things, and they just know
exactly what to do, you know, like they all of the locals and

(39:45):
Cresline really breathed new life into intothe movie, Like it wouldn't have been
the same without any of them.That's amazing. So going to like,
it's interesting that you bring up thelike had to find the DPE, had
to find ball to actually and yousaid, you're not a technical person.
No, I'm the opposite, likeexact opposite. So I find that fascinating.

(40:07):
What Yeah, So what is theprocess like for you? I mean
obviously you know your DP you foundbased on location and stuff like that.
What was it like learning then towork with them? Because it has a
really interesting visual look. The lighting, like the lighting in the bar scene
is next level. It's so coolthe way that it like And in fact,

(40:30):
I had a question written down aboutuh about the sets, so like
you had because you already explained howyou found the main set, but this
bar was so interesting and fascinating.Did you guys add set decoration with like
there's like a spider up on theceiling or was that just because it was
Halloween and you utilized it all?Yeah, it was because because we we

(40:52):
reached out to the bar. Andagain, like this is it's such a
small town and it's such a tightknit town and like it's a relatively like
it's a mountain. It's a truemountain town. Like it is like it
is like jacked up pickup trucks andsteakhouses all over, which was which was
super cool, but like there's thislittle niche of these like you know,

(41:16):
millennial witch is living there that likego and hang out at this bar and
it's like you know, it's ohyeah, oh yeah. So we we
told them, we were like,hey, we need a bar. They're
like, oh, we go,let's go to the Claw. We go.
We go there like every every Wednesdaynight or whatever. There's like karaoke,

(41:37):
so they go. They go.They all go there dressed up,
all gothed out and sing like Creedsongs at this like at this like country
bar and and it's and so wewe they reached out to us and and
yeah, I talked to the barowner, Mave and she's like, oh,

(41:59):
it's gonna be a hellow is thatOkay? I was like, yeah,
go all out, like just likeyou know that that's exactly what we
want. So literally we did Wedid nothing except cover the windows that day
because we basically they were like,okay, we open it eleven. You
have from five am to eleven togo. So we shot all the xteriors
and reverse and like and you know, we we were like literally running in

(42:25):
between setups we have. Basically wegot all of our xteriors in fifteen minutes.
There was like five setups that wedid. We were just like okay,
go go, like we need togo. The sun's coming up and
we we pull up that day andwas it a one day? That was?
That was yeah? So that wasone day basically what it did.

(42:46):
So we had that we had theour two X outside locations. There was
the bar and then there's like thePillars of God, which was like that
where the ceremony and stuff is happening, right, and those were we had
the bar from like six am toeleven am, and then we had Pillars
of God. We weren't starting untillike nine o'clock that night, so we

(43:07):
just had like a split day.Wow. And this day that's a lot
for this scene is not a shortscene for five hours of filming. Yeah,
yeah, and it was. Andthat was it, and you know,
I mean I think we got outof you know, we ended our
day that was almost a twenty fourhour day because we ended our day at

(43:29):
Pillars of God around like four inthe morning. I think we got out
of there, and uh, youknow, and that was that was the
most complicated day because it was theday that we basically had all of our
extras in in one day. Soit was like, you know, that
was when we had Jesse Hughes therefrom Eagles of death Metal and and then
we had and it was the daywe had visited visitors and stuff too.

(43:52):
So Danny's sister Bella was there andlike there was you know, which was
she was a big help and actuallyyou know, like helping making sure everyone
got fed because it took us afew days into it to be like,
oh, I guess we should likefigure out a craft services yeah or something.
We were just like okay, butuh but yeah, like and so

(44:12):
we didn't get out of there untilabout four in the morning, and then
we got back and uh, youknow that night, luckily Bella had left
bought a bunch of tacos for us. We sat there in ate tacos and
dranking till you know, seven inthe morning because we had the next day
off. And then yeah, yeah, it was that. That was a
that was a long one, youknow what. I think that's really cool

(44:34):
though, just hearing you say thatyou had the next day off, because
I think a lot of times filmmakersschedule. When they scheduled, they're just
like we're gonna film for fourteen daysor whatever, and it's like, what
can I fit into this date?What can I fit into this date?
What can I fit into this day? And I found that it's the best
way to do it is to belike, what days should we take off?
How many days can we do fromthe beginning, and then take a

(44:54):
day off or take two days off. Number one for me, like as
because a lot of my stuff Idirect and edit myself. I want to
look at my footage. I wantto see what my acting my actors look
like. I want to I wantto know what I'm making. So I'll
cut a few scenes on my daysoff. And but I most people don't
think like that. I see somany low budget filmmakers who don't take days

(45:16):
off. They don't think about watchingtheir footage or breaks. They just go,
go, go go until they're likesix days in and they're already burnt
out. Yeah, And that wasexactly and I think like maybe, I
mean, my my day job inmy background is in project management, right,
so and I think like without that, I wouldn't have been able to

(45:37):
kind of wrap my head around gettinga lot of this stuff done. And
and that was it was just onething. I thought, like, we
knew that was gonna be a bigday. We knew that's the day we
needed everyone, so let's shoot itout. I was like, Okay,
let's take the next day off andthen like and the nice thing was was
like we were all integrated, right, So we were all living in the
house. So we shot in twohouses and they're down the st from each

(46:00):
other, and Reneat's house and Neat'sin the movie, and she contributes most
of the music to the to thesoundtrack as well. So we lived in
her house and then shot our exteriorsin that house and that's where like the
final scene is all happening in thathouse. So we were living in there
and like you know, sleeping onair mattresses in her recording studio and stuff

(46:24):
and like but we would all,you know, we we were also integrated
that like you know, our daysoff were all fully spent together. We
would just like go hang around Crestlineand like there's you know, we would
go like canoeing in the lake togetherand like you know, go out and
eat all our meals together and allthat kind of stuff. And then like
they have we learned about Crestline culturethere, at least in our group,

(46:47):
there's cuddle puddles, which is thething. So all the like back decks
have beds on them, and likebasically every night the whole cast and crew
would go end up and like layon these mattresses, these like king sized
mattress is on the back decks andlike you know, just drink until the
late Yeah, yeah, exactly.It was great, right, and because

(47:07):
like aside from Bentley I had nevermet anyone in person before we got there,
right, so, like we reallyintegrated quickly. I mean the you
know, our first day we shotchronologically for the most part, so you
know, and that's why I've said, like there's there's moments where like we
were all kind of figuring, figuringout how everything goes and you know,

(47:29):
warming things up. And I meanliterally my first day, like the first
scene we shot was them walking intothe house, and I remember sitting there
and I didn't even I think itprobably took me maybe two days to start
giving direction to people because I wasjust like, holy shit, like what
is going on? Like I'm sittingin the chair, I'm looking at a

(47:49):
monitor, I've got the headphones,and I was just like, what is
happening right now? And I waslike, you know, kind of cringing
through it because I'm like hearing mywords being spoken, and I'm like,
oh, I wish I you know, Like I was super in my first
in my earlier drafts of the script, like I was thinking of it like
I was writing a book, right, so it was super prescriptive, and

(48:10):
then like I'm I immediately realized like, Okay, that's not you know,
that's not how we need to bedoing this. So I was I was
doing like late night edits and stuffon that, and even just like trimming
Shelby and I would sit at theend of every day and think like,
I, okay, we kind ofad libd on some stuff today, Like
I don't even think we need toshoot this scene. So we were trimming
our cns down a lot budget filmmaking, that's the key. The key is

(48:34):
like analyzing what you're filming and beinglike, oh, this character would never
do that. Let's figure out howto make it better. Because you don't
have thirty people who have read thescript and have given you notes. You're
just meeting these actors. You don'treally know what their personalities are gonna come
like on screen. And there weretons of times where like I'm on The
Good Exorcist number one, I wasalso on like reality TV while I was

(48:57):
filming it, because I was,yeah, so I'm being filmed doing so
I'm trying not to look like acringe idiot and be filmed like a moron.
But part of me was also justlike I also have no idea what
I'm doing. This is my firstmovie and I'm on reality TV what I
can look like a bit of anidiot. So I remember there being a
moment where I'm like, why arecharacters in this scene completely different than they've

(49:19):
been the entire rest of the movie, And sat down with my cast and
was just like, how would yousay this as character? Like what where
would you mentally be at right now? And you know, all of us
kind of like just had a huddleand took an hour to figure it out.
And my reality crew my producers arejust going like, you're not filming
right now, you need to befilming, And I'm like, no,
I'm gonna take a second and figurethis out because it's important that the characters

(49:43):
don't divert from who they are,and we're going to figure this out.
And we did, and it's it'sone of my favorite scenes of the movie
because I know the backstory of thiswas not this and now it is,
yeah, one hundred percent, Andthat's where like we I mean, what
I did was I so I wrote, I wrote or tailored all of the

(50:07):
characters to the people playing them forthe most part, right, Like the
big one was so like Faedra atthe beginning was not who she is,
like she was like what you likeconsider she was like traditional Gothy musician in
it right and like very you know. And then we started Bentley connecting me
to Danny, and as soon asI met Danny, I was like,

(50:30):
oh, man, like she's justlike such a such an amazing personality.
So so I was like, soI just rewrote Faedra to be Danny,
and and Bentley I knew I've knownfor eight years or so now, so
I wrote that with him in mindthe whole time. So he was playing
himself like and he's just like,you know, big personality for both Like

(50:52):
he's just like like he's just andso everyone was they were kind of playing
themselves. Like it was very metabecause like in the movie they're living together
and and working on creative stuff togetherand then like but kind of playing themselves
and then like then we cut andthen everyone's kind of still being themselves and

(51:12):
like you know, then we're allhanging out and like I remember looking at
Danny one time and like, youknow, it's just one night we were
kind of after we'd done shooting,and she was just kind of standing in
the kitchen like looking off and Ithink we had like a it was like
a heavier day or something. Iwas just like, is everything okay?
She's just like yeah, She's likethis is just this is very meta.
Yeah, I know, like thisis yeah, it's it's weirding me out

(51:34):
too, Like I can't. I'mhaving a hard time separating everyone from from
everything, right. But yeah,and so so they would come to me
all the time and and uh andbe like hey, I don't think I
would say this, or I wouldn'tsay it this way, or I wouldn't
do that. Like I'm like,hey, go for it. Like you
know, I didn't even think Iwas gonna make this movie when when I
was writing it, you know,like even I even like even until the

(51:59):
day we started, I was like, this isn't gonna happen. Man,
Like you Yeah, every time thesecond you throw out your first like you
know, rolling camera, rolling soundand you have to say that first action,
it's just like am I going todo that? Are we really here?

(52:19):
Is that we got here? Wow? Yeah? Like everyone talks about
the Martini shot, like the finalshot and how awesome that is, and
I've always found that to be likemore bittersweet. I hate it when I
have to do the Martini shot,and I know it's not gonna be the
Martini shot. It's always like I'mgonna be doing pickups in three weeks anyway,
Like I'm gonna see something, pickup a camera and film some br

(52:40):
roll or something, and so theMartini shot never really matters that much to
me. But that first time whenI get to say cut, I'm just
like, we created something out ofnothing. We just did that, like
we made something on nothing. Thisis so awesome exactly, and and that
would that's that's it, right,like I and and that's what I mean

(53:00):
when when I was sitting there thatfirst day, and like I think I
probably I think Shelby had to askme like twice because I was like,
oh yeah, action, and Iwas like kind of again, i have
like such an imposter syndrome because I'mlike, did you really just say action?
Like do people even really say that? You know? Like I was

(53:21):
kind of like, okay, yeah, you know, and and like it
so it was it was so itwas so bizarre, and I actually,
this is this is bad. Butthis is like again, I told you,
I'm i I'm I was a writerfirst. This is so this is
my first real experience on film sets. So the one day and and Shelby's

(53:44):
like, Okay, this is ourMartini show, right, And I was
like in my head, I'm likewhat, there's no, there's no there's
like like no, we're not knowwhat it was either before the Good Exercise
it was yeah, I was like, it's it's our Martini. I was
like, oh yeah, yeah,yeah it is. You know, like

(54:06):
we just go yeah, sure,I'll just roll, you know, pull
out my phone. Yeah look,I know, dude. There was so
many times on The Good Exorcist whereI just felt like a complete moron because
I've made so much. I madeso many like short films, so many
animations, but I've never been aroundpeople like that where I could actually learn

(54:27):
like really technical stuff. And thesereality crews are like they're the most professional
professional, like they all they werelike way beyond what most film sets are,
Like they have to because of thecommunication has to be there to make
sure they're getting what they need.And like, yeah, there were so
many times that I would say somethingand they just be like I could see

(54:49):
like everyone they weren't allowed to talkto me while I was filming. Besides,
like the producers every once in buti'd see like the camera guy just
be like the fuck is he doingwith that camera? Like I look like
a monkey football and he's just likelosing his ship trying to watch or watching
me try to set up a sliderand I've got it like upside down or
something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's exactly it. And I

(55:14):
like, well, and I've learnedthat too now, is because now on
on some of the stuff I'm workingon now, my production partner and co
director on the stuff is like aseasoned reality guy and uh, and he's
you know, it's it's we're we'rea perfect Yeah, we're a perfect marriage
on on everything right now, becauselike you know, we're we're both kind

(55:36):
of contributing and learning from each other. And uh, but yeah, it
was you know, I mean,we shot some stuff at a wrestling show
for this doc we're doing now afew weeks ago, and I'm like,
okay, just pick up the secondcamera, you know, start getting audience
reactions and stuff. I was like, yeah, okay, cool, like

(55:57):
you know, like just kind ofyou know, throwing it on my shoulder
and like all right, we'll justfigure this out. Like and you know
what I'm I'm like, I lookback at the footage after and you know,
he got hours of footage and maybeten cuts, right, I've got
like one hundred and fifty cuts inlike an hour of footage because I'm like,
every time something did, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna shut the
camera off. And you know,then I was like, oh man,

(56:20):
this is a disaster. To sendit to the editor. I'm like,
hey, sorry, man. Youknow, like, dude, you got
you got my attention. So movingup. Yeah, let's first, Okay,
let me I'll just jump ahead andwe'll come back. I'm a I
have become an avid wrestling fan overthe past two years. I moved to
Atlanta and became obsessed with aw wrestlingand I wrote I had written this short

(56:44):
film called Little Luca and the BigDeal many many years ago because I've always
kind of liked wrestling. I've likedthe concept of wrestling. I watched it
when I was a kid, butyou know, kind of got out of
it. And then within the lasttwo years I just have become absolutely obsessed.
And then I shot this film whereI play the Little Lucha. My
friend Scarlett played the Big Deal.It takes place in the it's like a

(57:04):
nineteen eighty is when the movie takesplace, and you know what is you
tell me, just like I knowyou probably can't talk about a lot,
but the wrestling doc what are youworking on? Because you yeah, so
we got yeah. So I basicallyhad the same intro to wrestling, like
you know, again like our inour age group, like you know,

(57:28):
I was. I was kind ofI had friends that were super into wrestling
then, and I was kind oflike, again, I love the idea
of this, and you know,I had I had an Austin three sixteen
shirt and that kind of stuff,but I was kind of like every yeah,
oh yeah, exactly. I neverfully got into it. But and
then honestly haven't thought about it fortwenty years. And then what happened was

(57:54):
I actually I listened to one ofeurope sodes with Jay Horton and and he
was talking about dock making stuff,and I honestly never even really thought about
doc making that much. And thenI started thinking, you know, I
was like, Okay, maybe thisis a good thing in between because I

(58:14):
kept feeling like I was rushing intothe next narrative feature right, and I'm
like, man, like you gotto do it right, you know,
learn, don't fall into the sametraps again, right. So I was
like, let's start kind of exploringin this. And I knew I had
Mike that I grew up with him, and reached out to him and said,
hey, like do you want toshoot some docs together? And I
kind of just wrote a list ofeveryone I know and everyone that they know

(58:37):
that is doing something interesting and soit's actually my boss, his best friend
runs a wrestling league, an independentwrestling league. And I was like,
hey, do you think they'd becool with us shooting a doc? He
so, yeah, for sure.So I talked to him that night,
was like, can you can weshoot a doc on you? I don't
even know what it's going to beon right now, Like I just want
to start getting some stuff in thecant and he was like, well,

(59:01):
we've got something like you know,I mean, it's it's heavy. But
basically, the founder of the leaguewas diagnosed with terminal cancer. So we've
been following his journey. You know, he's like a forty three year old
father of three young boys and stuff, and so we were following that and

(59:23):
so we've been you know, it'sa really weird juxtaposition because we're going to
wrestling shows and like capturing that footageand then going to you know, his
hospital bed and that kind of stuffand getting interviews with him. But he
was he was super instrumental in alot of guys' careers that made it big
and even the league itself like hasbeen going for over twenty years and you

(59:47):
know, they've got a big followingand locally, and so we've been following
that. We've been shooting some ofthe shows. We're actually going tomorrow to
shoot a show that some of thesome of the bigger guys are coming back
for, and then next week there'sanother one that they're doing. But guys
like Eric Young and Sean Spears,though there's some of there, it's mostly

(01:00:14):
like T and A guys there werekind of following their journey and stuff now
too. But so it all cametogether really nicely. And then you know,
it was another one of these thingsthat I don't know how it happened,
but you know, Mike came tome one day and said, hey,
well I've we actually my partner andanother thing actually owes Bell Media,

(01:00:37):
like a TV service in Canada.He's like he owes them a wrestling documentary.
So he's like, Joe, let'slet's do it for them, right.
So yeah, so we we've beenthrowing it together like literally it's nice
because it's all local and Mike andI are you know, super nimble and
we can just like pick up thecamera and get somewhere like uh. Because

(01:01:00):
when we from the time that weI first thought of the idea to when
we started shooting was like five daysand we were like, okay, we
got like first day, that's documentary. You just get whatever you can get
and then it'll if that makes itin it does. If it doesn't,
it doesn't, but you just haveto have it. You just have to
have it. That's it. Andand like and immediately, like on our

(01:01:22):
first day, like I was like, man, I love dog, Like
this is you know, like wecan we can do this, like and
just pick up a camera and belike okay, hey, let's let's start
doing it right. So and thenso that's kind of opened my eyes a
little bit more here too, andI started reaching out to other people and
just kind of getting ideas and inyou know, ready to go. So

(01:01:45):
basically as soon as the restling one'sdone. We've got like a true crime
one that we're that we're gonna dotoo. And yeah, I mean right
now, like I'm writing different things. I'm writing this comedy thing that that's
like at outline stage. Yeah,and I'm helping a friend out with with
a movie right now too. ButI'm really liking kind of this space for

(01:02:07):
now, you know. I mean, this will kind of bring us to
the end of the year. We'llbe able to get probably two projects in
the can love. Yeah. Soit's it's been. It's been great,
man. And honestly, like throughoutthis, I've become obsessed with wrestling too,
Like, like in the last monthI've been like following all of it

(01:02:30):
because like you know, I'm startingto follow all like the subjects in the
documentary and then like other things they'reposting and other wrestling shows. I'm like,
oh yeah, And I was becausebasically what like, my dad helps
me with with most of our productionstuff. So he's he's writing up our
agreements and all that kind of stufffor me, and he's coming to the
show and getting everyone sign off andeverything, and you know he's sitting there

(01:02:52):
and he's never like watched wrestling,like since the seventies, you know,
and he's like, man, he'slike, I'm like a wrestling fan now
too, I think you know,and and like, yeah, it's it's
it's been super fun to get into. It becomes especially fun when you start
to realize, like, what,it's not just acting, it's not just

(01:03:14):
you know, having to like controlyour body and learn the sport. Even
if we all know what's kind ofhappening, there's still elements where you start
to like see how much like it'sone thing to just be really good at,
you know, a piece, Likeyou're an amazing football player. Let's
say I can watch that and belike that's awesome, that's so cool,
but you're basically just really good atthrowing a ball and running, like I

(01:03:37):
mean, let's really boil it down. And I watched some of these wrestlers.
I'm just like, you have tohave so many different talents to pull
off the ballet that is wrestling thatit's just Oh, I love it.
I'm addicted. And then once Igot in the ring because I had to
actually wrestle and I had never doneit before, and the dude taught me

(01:03:58):
moves. He's like, this ishow you do this. This is how
you do this. I'm you're gonnatake control. I'm gonna take control here.
And I had to like learn somestuff and I was like, this
is the most challenging thing I've everseen in my life. Like it's so
much more difficult than people give itcredit for. And I like absolutely after
that, Like it's been two yearssince we filmed that, I'm just I'm

(01:04:18):
obsessed. I'm obsessed with all wrestlingit. Oh yeah, I get it
in and like so like our ourdogs called call it in the Ring,
and like it was a concept Ihad never heard of before, and like,
you know, so we've been talkingto the guys about like what is
calling it in the ring mean toyou? Right? And they're like,
basically, we're just sad living,right. And I'm like it's like if

(01:04:40):
when you're in a band, likeit's just like a jam set right,
Like you're just like okay, youkind of like you find each other's groove
and that kind of stuff. Andlike we're going to this show, getting
ready to you know, setting everythingup. We're watching the ring set up.
I am expecting every single, everysingle match to get in there and
run through the thing. And likeno one's doing anything, No one's like

(01:05:03):
practicing. I was like, oh, they're just going for it, like
yeah, And so that's been superinteresting to and and again like not completely
unexpected for me. Uh the thatkind of ad limbit element. It's it's
so cool. So before we wrapthis up, and I kind of asked

(01:05:24):
you in the email, so butI don't know what the answer is now
as far as an audience seeing Fae, when is it releasing? What's your
plan of attack? Do you havea plan of attack? Yeah, yeah,
kind of. We're we're working throughit, like we've we've got we've
got a kind of sales agent sellingit for us. Now, we've gotten

(01:05:48):
some where we're talking back and forthwith a few distributors, but like nothing's
fully locked in right now where we'vewe've applied to some festivals we're waiting to
hear back from. But that's theworst. That's how we are with the
short film. We're just waiting andwaiting and waiting. I hate that part
of the game. Oh yeah,it's that's it man, It's like you

(01:06:11):
know, and then every time anote comes back, you're like yeah,
like all right, let's you know, It's just it's so so we are
we are trying to figure that outright now, there's uh, we've got
if unless the distributor wants it.We we kind of have a deal for
some like Art House Theatrical distribution thatwe're gonna that that we'll be rolling out.

(01:06:33):
But actually that and that's kind ofsomething I can get into. I
don't want to run over time toomuch because there's a few things because I
I actually wanted to step back alittle bit if if, if you don't
mind even just in in some ofthe chronology of this, because you played

(01:06:57):
a role in this too a littlebit. And I I don't know if
I even told you, Like Imean we've been talking for like almost a
year now, yeah, and andand making it work. But yeah,
like so in I I skipped overit earlier. But basically in between the
time of uh, you know,the script script being written and production happening,

(01:07:21):
I was like, man, Idon't know how I'm gonna do this
right. And I had a friendthat was kind of mentoring me through it.
Uh who's in it? Like GregCestero from the room I'm I've been
friends with for a long Yeah,and he basically since day one. He's

(01:07:42):
kind of been my mentor. That'sawesome. I have a signed room script
from Amazing Well and and he's andhe's, uh, so, yeah,
he's been instrumental in this from thebeginning, right, And so he was
helping me out a lot. ButI kind of, you know, you're
having all these like moments of doubtand like, I don't know if I
can do this whatever. My dadbought me the Rebel Book and I you

(01:08:04):
know, devoured it and like keptreading it was like, okay, you
know, really relating to all thethings that I'm sure you have when you
were reading it and all that kindof stuff, right where like it nailed
down the doubt aspect so much andthat, you know, and I was
like, okay, like this canbe done right, and and so that
became instrumental. And then one dayhe comes He's like, there's a TV

(01:08:25):
show. I was like, ohshit, okay, let's watch it.
So we were watching the TV showand I was like, okay, yeah,
you can do this, like youknow, and and now, especially
hearing how you were feeling, andI'm like, I'm so glad there was
never a camera on me. Well, this was Oh, I will say.
The nice thing about it is itkeeps you motivated, Like it keeps
you moving. Yeah for sure,right, that's it. And so that

(01:08:48):
was a huge That was a hugefactor, and like that kind of gave
me like the final push in likedown moments to be like, Okay,
this is this is cool and that'swhy I like it was just then that
I like started following everyone and whatever. Right. But it was also when
we had to change the name ofour movie because our movie was called Phaedra
two. Oh god. I waslike, oh man, what are the

(01:09:10):
chances like that this is the thingwe stumble on and there happens to be
a phader in here and we werein Scarlett's movie and I was like,
but but yeah. So it waslike a huge you know that that was
a huge kind of had a hugeimpact on me, uh leading up into
production and we were taking notes,man, like my dad made all of
our like practical effects and was likestealing some of the stuff you were doing,

(01:09:32):
and like he's like, oh,yeah, okay, I'm gonna try.
I'm gonna figure that out. Ilove it, man, I love
that. There's that scene in Rebelwhere I'm like explaining the bread dough and
how my dad would take me huntingas a kid and being like, yeah,
you know, like gutting a deerand looking at it being like,
oh, it's like doughe and thatjust using that years later, I have

(01:09:53):
had so many people tell me thatthey've used the bread dough guts technique since
then, which is my favorite.I'm just like, that's why I went
on that show, Like I reallywent on that show because I wanted people
to be like because when I readRebel without a Crew, I love Robert
to death, love the dude.He's like amazing. But I read that
book and he like, he's sosimple in his writing and he doesn't make

(01:10:15):
it you feel like it's impossible heis. I went on it going like
I want to feel I want everyoneto feel like if this idiot can do
it, I can do it too. And when I read Robert's not that
Roberts an idiot, but I verymuch was like this guy who's like ten
years younger than I am was outthere doing this with film like I can
do that if he can do that. So that was a lot of it

(01:10:36):
was just like Dan and I beinglike, let's just go like be two
idiot dads in camp making a movieand show everyone that you can do it.
Like if we could do it,you can do it one hundred percent.
And that's what like I related toright. I was like I had
And that's why especially I related toyou, because I'm like, Okay,

(01:10:57):
you know at that time, Ijust have my son was like eleven months
old. We've now you know,he's two and a half. Now we
have a nine month old baby too, and it's like, you know,
this balance of like dad life andday job life and figuring that out right
and and and so that's I waslike, okay, yeah, again,
like if these guys can do aweek and figure it out, and and
that was that's how I felt readingthe book, and that's how I kind

(01:11:20):
of always approached again, Like I'vesaid, like if I knew everything that
went into movie making before I gotinto it, I probably wouldn't have done
it, right, Like it waslike my naivety that like allowed me to
do it because it's like an audaciousgoal, but like it's because I didn't
know that that made everything, youknow, seem doable at the time.

(01:11:43):
But I always my my kind ofgoing back My my big thing was always
I followed like kind of I followedKevin Smith from the beginning, right and
not from his beginning from like tob say, as soon as I started
listening to like some podcasts and stuff, I was like, okay, okay,

(01:12:03):
like this, I feel like I'mgetting some real insider info here.
And I was reading the books andhe you know, and I've kind of
said to everyone, I was likethat kind of needs to be you know,
I'm not going to pretend going outand even if we're at a festival
or something and people are asking me, I'm not going to pretend to you
know, know everything, Like I'myou know, this is a learning a
learning process. And I it waslike fifteen years ago. I eventually he

(01:12:28):
was doing the ball hockey tournament inlike an hour from where I live,
and I was like, I'm justgonna show up. And I just like
showed up and hung back like allnervous until until the until the end,
and he was in his robe andlike about to get on his tour bus
and I just like brought him apack of timbits and was like hey,

(01:12:48):
uh and you know kind of spewedout like you make me want to be
a filmmaker, you're and he was. He was he was my like first
the very first time I ever feltlike, Okay, this is something I
could do was Kevin Smith. Andit was like and I was devouring all
the content and going to the Qand a's and that kind of stuff and
and yeah, and you know,he was super super cordial, very you

(01:13:12):
know, encouraging and like, youknow, just like a sweet guy,
right, and like it's kind ofbeen his thing like it for as I've
moved through this, I've kind ofhad that like guiding light of thinking.
You know, it's like that inthat early encouragement. I mean, it
still took me like ten years towrite a script, but like you know,
we did it, you know,and uh, and that's it.

(01:13:32):
And it was the same with you, like seeing you know, real people,
real you know, dads with jobsgoing out and making movies and like
that that was a huge inspiration.So yeah, awesome, man, I
love that, because yeah, that'sliterally those are the stories I'll like to
hear. I'm watching Faye uh twicenow and enjoying it both times. I

(01:13:56):
can say, like I really appreciatethe work that you put into it.
It was like, it's not alazy effort by any means. Like you
a lot of low budget filmmakers,because they're low budget, they go into
it and they're just like, it'sjust you can tell, you know,
you can tell that it's low budget. You could tell that they weren't trying.
It's like every shot is very specific, every costume. I mean,

(01:14:17):
I didn't even get to half myquestions I was gonna ask you. So
I'm gonna have to have you backon as soon as you finish some of
these docs or the next movie,Like definitely sent me an email because we
have I've got so much more toask. But like the costume, like
the costumes and the way you you, I mean the wardrobe, which I
assume was a lot of their wardrobeand their personality coming out. That's such

(01:14:38):
a beautiful way to utilize it.I mean that's they don't show it on
The Good Extorcist but on Rebel witha Crew. But when we did The
Good Exorcist, I was just like, what can we what do we have?
What costume can we get for nothing? And Dan had his wedding suited
and I was like, all right, we'll get one of those little callers
and you could be a priest likeand then we just wrote around that.
It literally was written around costume andand you see in on Rebel Without a

(01:15:01):
Crew, there's a moment where thecouple of the cast members because I don't
know how to shop for women's clothing, like I have no idea, and
so Ali showed up and she's likecarrying all these costumes. She's like,
I just went and got these atthe thrift store for ten dollars and I
was like, okay, here's twentybucks or whatever, like, and I
was just like so appreciative that shewent out of her way to do that.

(01:15:23):
Yeah, those are huge things thatwe can utilize as low budget filmmakers.
Whereas you know, you start workingin bigger budget stuff like I recently
have been, and it's like yourdesigner is like overthinking everything and everything it
becomes like so massive that you're justlike, guys, why can't we just
go like literally having a conversation aboutsnowmobiling on a lake. I'm like,

(01:15:43):
my dad has two snowmobiles. We'lljust go on the lake and film it.
Like they're like, well, butwe also have to have you know,
EMTs ready, we have to haveall this other stuff, you know,
we have that professional stunt people,and I'm like, oh my god,
it's so much easier when no onegives a shit and there's nothing stopping
you from just going. So that'sreally awesome to hear that you saw Rebel
and and read the book and likehave utilized these people who are you know,

(01:16:08):
they're they all want to see movies. They do this because we love
movies. No one makes a moviethat I know who is like I made
it because I just wanted to getrich like everyone. It's just like I
wanted to make some art. Iwanted to try some shit and it looked
like fun and I love movies,Like I love movies, why not go
make that? And you know,so you know, my experience with Kevin

(01:16:29):
is the same thing. My experiencewith Robert was the same way, where
it's like they were just like,dude, what are you gonna make?
I'm curious to see what it's likewhen you kill this teddy bear, Like
I love that. That's yeah.And watching Faith twice now I can say
like it's inspiring to me. Itmakes me go like, oh, that's
a cool shot, Like I wonderif I could get away with something like
that, or like the way youutilize sound was so unique because it's you

(01:16:53):
know, had it been done withone hundred million dollar budget, it would
have sounded one way. But theway you guys did it where it was
like he was like utilizing the lowbudget while also not making it feel low
budget, like there was a therewas a soundscape and the scene that you're
talking about at the end, Iwas, it's the same thing where I
watched it the second time. Iwas like, oh, yeah, I

(01:17:14):
forgot this goes on for like along time. It makes me feel weird
good. I'm glad. Yeah,yeah, that's the goal. Yeah and
and yeah it h I'm I'm gladyou enjoyed it, like it's uh,
you know, it's it's one ofthose things. It's scary to start getting
it out there. But I meanyour feedback, even early on, even

(01:17:34):
you know, months ago, hasbeen encouraging. Man, So I appreciate
it. Yeah, get it outthere. I'm excited. And as soon
as it is, I mean,I know how it goes. I know
it takes time. Shit, man, A Great Woods plot took us like
three years to actually get out andlike, yeah, I know how it
works. But also I cannot waitfor people to see it because it's going

(01:17:54):
to be one of those movies that'sgoing to hit a certain group of people
who are just going to love it. And that's all you can hope for
in a low budget film is thatit will hit those people who they connect
to it. Had I seen thatmovie when I was, you know,
ten years old, starting to playguitar and learning stuff, I would have
been like, you know, Iwas just starting to watch horror movies like

(01:18:15):
that, just playing guitar. Thiswould have been the movie that made me
go like you would have been mylink later where I would have been like
you can do that, you canjust make a movie and run a camera.
I would have been like, that'sthis is my inspiration. This is
my go moment. So kudos tothat, and I, like I said,
man, come back anytime. Thankyou so much for coming out show.
Yeah, I would love to if. Basically, I think the best

(01:18:38):
the best way for for anyone tofollow us now is just pretty much on
Instagram is kind of where we're gonnabe posting our updates. It's uh faye
the movie and yeah, that's that'sprobably the best way, and we'll post
all our updates there. And Italk to Greg too. I think like
we're working on his next film togetherright now. I think you'd be sweet

(01:19:00):
for both of us to come ontoo, and on the that sounds fantastic.
Let me know, thank you somuch for coming on the show.
Thank you man, I appreciate it. Oh what a fun episode. I
just my favorite part was that youguys couldn't see it if you're listening to

(01:19:23):
the audio podcast, which that's allthere is right now, is an audio
podcast. But I literally picked upthe Kurt Cobain diary or journal book and
he was floored. I was floored. Like the fact that that came up
like that was really fantastic, andjust the whole thing was a lot of
fun. I love talking to peoplelike Scott and I really really recommend Faye

(01:19:45):
when you guys can see it,because it is one of those independent,
like truly truly independent movies that youcould tell they put a lot of work,
a lot of passion into and whileit is low budget, you don't
you forget that it's low budget asyou watch, and absolutely fantastic job.
So all that being said, ifyou want to hear this podcast without those

(01:20:08):
stupid ads. I hate the ads, Absolutely hate them. If you want
to hear it without the ads,because I know there's a ton of them,
but that's just the way the companywe use for the public podcast works.
They kind of force you to putthat many ads in in order to
get paid very little to begin with, but they what it is what it

(01:20:30):
is. Head on over to patreondot com slash Flush Studios you get the
podcasts ad free. With season six, I'm gonna be doing something new where
you're gonna get bonus content hopefully withthe podcast episodes and the whole The whole
podcast is going to be changing abit, so I'm pretty excited about that.
It's gonna be changing everywhere. ButI'm still planning my attack with that.

(01:20:53):
I'm making some big changes, especiallyas I move into twenty twenty five.
I have some big ideas and Iwant you guys to be around for
those. It's also the place whereyou can check out all of the Flush
comics without having to buy them,the digital versions of them. I'm putting
together a thing like a website thatyou only get access to if you're a

(01:21:14):
patron I'm just trying to figure outthe logistics of it because it's a pain
in the ass, and I doeverything myself, so when there's a pain
in the ass to be had,it's my ass that has the pain.
So if you want to get thecomics and all of the short films and
all the features and everything, I'mhoping that it'll be on a very easy
to access site in the near future, and that will only be accessible through

(01:21:36):
the Patreon. So that's sort ofmy idea, but it's gonna take me
some time to actually logistically figure itout. Even with that being said,
if you subscribe to the Patreon rightnow for any amount you get I mean
a dollar or more. I thinkif you subscribe as a just a member,
you get some you know, extrabonus content for free. But if

(01:21:59):
you subscribe for one dollar or more, I send out links of the Good
Exorcist, Gray Woods plot, andsome other stuff. Wink wink, nudge,
nudge. If you're interested in seeingthings that perhaps Scott McElroy talked about
seeing that are very hard to findnow, and if you want to see
those, subscribe to the Patreon,Patreon dot com slash Flush Studios all right,
this was a wonderful episode. I'mso thankful Scott came on. And

(01:22:20):
if you have anyone you would liketo hear on the show, make sure
to reach out. You can followme at Flush Studios on Twitter, at
Wait at Josh Stifter on Twitter,and at Flush Studios, but at Josh
Stifter is the better place. AtFlush Studios on Instagram, Flush Studios Facebook
page, Josh Stifter Facebook page,any of that stuff you can access me.

(01:22:45):
Also, you can send emails toFlush Studios at gmail dot com and
I will get your If you wantto be on the show, that's where
you send a screener. Send ascreener of your movie. I'll watch it
and I can't wait to talk toyou about it. All right, until
next time, keep kicking ass,everybody, keep making the art you want
to make, Stay independent, andas always, stay rebellious. Low Budget

(01:23:11):
Rebels is brought to you by theindie film Hustle Network, recorded at Flush
Studios headquarters in tropical Atlanta, producedby the film daddy Josh Stifter, Ba Ba Baboo

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Season 5 Episode 14: FEY Director Scott McElroy

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