Season 6 Episode 3: Directing Actors: Casting, Rehearsal, and Getting the Best Performance

Welcome back, Rebels! In this episode of Low-Budget Rebels, we’re digging into the heart of filmmaking — directing actors and finding authentic performances. From casting the right people to running rehearsals, to supporting your cast through the challenges of shoot days, today’s guests share how they create the conditions for great performances, even on limited budgets.

First up, I talk with Alex Kahuam about his approach to working with actors on his single-take thriller Failure. We get into the unique challenges of one-take filmmaking, how to keep performances consistent over long stretches, and how to give actors the confidence to take risks.

Next, Spooky Madison joins me to discuss building trust with your cast, creating a comfortable environment, and allowing for collaboration while keeping the tone of the film intact. We also talk about how rehearsal can open the door for unexpected discoveries on set.

Then I’m joined by Dillon Brown, who shares how he approaches directing actors in found footage films, where improvisation and naturalistic performances are key. Dillon talks about creating believable tension without over-directing and letting his cast lean into their instincts.

Finally, I wrap the episode with Michael Pierro, director of Self Driver. Michael shares his process for casting actors who can bring authenticity to heightened sci-fi situations, as well as strategies for helping performers adapt quickly in tight shooting schedules and small locations.

This episode is all about the director–actor relationship — casting, rehearsals, on-set communication, and creating the space for great performances that serve the story. Thank you so much for supporting Low-Budget Rebels. Your support helps keep the show going and gives you access to these episodes completely ad-free. If you’re not already a member, head to patreon.com/flushstudios to join.

And be sure to follow and support this episode’s amazing guests: Alex Kahuam –
kahuamfilms.com | @alexkahuam
Spooky Madison – @finalghoulfilms | Final Ghoul on YouTube
Dillon Brown – @horrornerdproductions | Films on Tubi and Amazon
Michael Pierro – @m_pierro

More conversations with bold, independent filmmakers are coming your way this season — stay tuned, and stay rebellious. Cheers,
Josh

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Low Budget Rebels god Cast.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome back to another episode of Low Budget Rebels. I'm
your host, Josh Stifter, and on this week's episode, we're
diving deep into one of the most challenging and rewarding
parts of filmmaking, which is directing actors, finding solid performances,
and making memorable characters based on who you have, what

(00:47):
you have, and who you can get in your low
budget films. Honestly, one of my favorite things about low
budget filmmaker filmmaking in general is collaboration, and one one
of the greatest collaborative elements of filmmaking is working with
an actor to find the performance and not only get

(01:10):
the tone and the style of what their character is out,
but literally finding ways to get the lines out. Every
actor is different, every person performs in a different way.
Some of your actors are going to be brand new
to it. Especially in low budget filmmaking. You're gonna be
working with people who have never worked in film before

(01:33):
in the way that maybe you're used to with other
actors or bigger names, or people who not bigger names,
but people who have acted who know how to learn
their lines. You might be working with people who cannot
learn their lines, or you presume that they will be
able to and they aren't, and you have to find
ways to work around it. That can be incredibly engaging
and a fun way to create low budget movies. We're

(01:59):
talking about personal time, casting the right people for the
right roles, and really understanding what your cast is going
through on the day of filming so you can help
them deliver their best performance. I for instance, on my
new movie Get That Dick and working with my son Max,
and he has not acted in a lot. He is

(02:20):
not learning lines in the same way that other people are.
He's learning to perform in a different way than most people,
and that has been incredibly engaging for me to learn
from him the way that he can find his character
and find his performance. Every single performance is different. And
you'll hear about on this episode how the four filmmakers

(02:42):
that I have on this episode learn their performances, learn
how to get their performances from their actor, and some
of the tips and tricks that they have put together
over the years in order to engage with their actors.
First up, I'm joined by Alex Kwalm, director of Forgiveness,
which is a single take Forgiveness, which is a movie

(03:05):
with very few takes in it. And then the single
take thriller Failure starring Ted Raimie. Alex shares how he
worked with his actors to keep performances sharp, authentic, and
when there was no room for error, how he was
able to find that kind of intense, continuous performance in

(03:28):
that shoot for both him director and for the cast
to trust each other completely. So, without further ado, here
is my conversation with Alex.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
Guam with a movie like this, it's a.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Single take and you don't have time to stop it
and be like you gotta be you gotta be darker,
you gotta be funnier, you gotta be angrier. How did
you plan that? Was there a lot of rehearsal, a
lot of like going through the script with all of
the actors, talking it through with them. Did you and
Ted have a lot of conversations about like this is
what your character is doing. Did Ted come back at

(04:04):
you went like I would never do that. What was
it like to plan this before you shot?

Speaker 4 (04:09):
So we were talking in advance for a straight month,
you know, like working on the character. And you know
he lives in Michigan Detroit, so we were like, okay,
like you as some like your character this is, and
he would tell me like I would not do this.
Can we change it? Yeah, sure, let's change it. That's fine.
So with some sort of like knew where the character
was going. But for performances, I mean, you're you're shooting

(04:34):
a like literally you're shooting an hour and a half
and you're like burning a lot of time on set.
And also actors, the crew, they have to have a rest.
So if you want to do a one take film, yes,
the rehearsals is a big part. But for me, it's
more about shooting and shooting and shooting because it's a

(04:56):
constant like muscle memory. Muscle memory. Like all the actors,
they know what they're doing now, Okay, now my emotion
is like more or less. And every time I caught
for another take, I can give notes to everybody and
we can do adjustments, but like you know, you're shooting again,
so it's very quick. So to answer your question about
also the time, we didn't have a lot of time.

(05:16):
I had three days. I had like one day for
a table read with all the casts, so everybody like
knew each other and we can like feel the energy
of the script. Then we have another day that I
split the blocking in two parts, which is like forty
five minutes, and then the next day I split the

(05:36):
other forty five or whatever it was left forty minutes,
and then I mix it up, and then we were
starting to do the whole thing. But I only have
three days to do the whole thing and then we're
shooting the next day. So it was insane, man, because
like it was so quick. Yeah, it was so like,
you know, everything was so quick. But I feel like

(05:57):
for the time we had and the result of the film,
it came out great. You know, it has imperfections, but
I wanted that because life is not perfect. Life is imperfect.
There's a lot of you know, ups and downs.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
That's funny you say that, because I I, especially on
the second viewing, I wanted to find in perfections in performances.
And there were moments where I'm like, Okay, so the
camera's not on this person, they're delivering a line. Maybe
it was adr and maybe it was whatever. To figure
this out, like this line maybe wasn't said this way
in the moment based on the reaction or but there
were very, very few things. As a filmmaker I was

(06:32):
watching and going like nitpicking and couldn't find them. Everyone
seemed to really understand what they were supposed to be saying,
where they were supposed to be, who they were in
that moment. So it feels like it feels like everyone
was very in, Like it wasn't a matter of people.

Speaker 4 (06:50):
You didn't.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
You didn't have to be like, you know, find the performance,
find it, we got to get it here. You you
trusted them.

Speaker 4 (06:58):
It seems like yeah, no, no, one hundred percent. And
the actors were very pumped, they were very excited. They
were all in. I didn't have any actors saying like,
oh my god, like one take.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
No.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
Everybody wanted to do it a challenge, and I wanted
like most of the acts are theater actors, Like they
come to their background is theater. So that's much makes sense.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, like this is a movie that is it's put
together in a theatric in a theater sort of way,
but just done cinematically correct.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
And everybody was like, oh my god, it's a dream,
it's like an actor's dream job or work or whatever,
because it's just like it's like if we're in a theater,
but it's a movie, and yeah, it's the same thing.
So most of the actors had the background and they
were comfortable with it.

Speaker 5 (07:41):
You know.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
Ted always says like, no, man, but I needed more
time because it's a full play and for full plays
and in a couple of months. But at the same time,
as we know film, there's no time, like because you know,
he's jumping in other projects and I'm jumping in other projects,
and it's like, if we don't do it now, we're
not gonna do it. We're never gonna do it exactly.

(08:03):
So it's we gotta do it, and I'm glad we
did it because, like I said, we turn out great.
We have a shout out from Bruce Campbell as well,
which is really nice. It's really cool. So you know,
it's I'm really proud, and I think he's really proud
too of his performance and what he did Ted, so.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Oh yeah, and he should be. It's a fantastic performance.
I mean, it really is. It's it's rare that a
performance is like a quarter of the movie. Like I
always say, sound like score is a quarter of the movie,
style is a quarter of the movie. It's rare that
one single performance is like that much of a chunk

(08:42):
of the movie. But his performance ground the whole thing.
You just want to watch him forever.

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
So you said, like you use the terminology before of
getting everyone to do what you want, and I like
that actually, because that is really the director's job is
to get everyone to do what you want. You kind
of have to be a little selfish, get them to
say the lines the way you want them to say,
get things to move the way you want them to move.
But on a and for me, like when I'm on

(09:10):
a movie, I'm thinking about the edit, I'm like, Okay,
I can get what I want by kind of.

Speaker 5 (09:14):
Cutting here, or like I can kind of I don't
want to use the word manipulate, but I can kind
of manipulate things where I can tell someone's performance is
going one direction in their head, and I'm like, I
know that that's not how it's going to cut.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
So then I kind of figure out a way, like, well,
can we take it down a notch, let's go bigger
with it, let's whatever, And I find a way to
like give them what they want and give myself what
I want as well. With a movie like this, you
can't do that like sans rehearsal. What was there a
way to do that on set? Were you able to say,
like in the moment, hey, let's ramp up this performance,
get crazy because there is like one one character specifically,

(09:50):
I could see his performance start to elevate. He's I'll
just say he's a character with a gun.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
Yeah, and he like, he.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
Starts one way and then it's slowly escal How did
you get that performance out of it?

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah? So's you know that actor is Daniel and it was.
It was very funny because like I always like to
give background stories for all the actors, like, hey, your
character is the background story. And yeah, we talked about
like Okaine, great advice.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
By the way, so many people don't truly like I think,
especially low budget filmmakers, we don't think about that. But
I was literally in believed with my son, who is
playing a big part in my next movie, and he
he was like, let's do a short film about my character.
And I'm like why, Like what's the point? He's like,
I just let's just try it. So he started doing stuff,
and he's sitting there going like, well, why would I

(10:39):
do this? Like what am I here to? I'm like,
oh my god, you're like really trying that. You're acting
like you are acting. You're getting the background. And it
reminded me that sometimes I forget to do that with people,
Like I forget even with the low budget people, the
people who are just there for a day or whatever,
to be like, this is your background, Like this helps.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
Oh yeah, it helps a lot. The actors like it
just it's a tool that they can grab, right. So
we talked about all the background and the you know,
the struggle and financial situation that he was going through.
But also like he's a cocaine addict, so he was
doing cocaine. So I told him like, hey, man, you're
doing cocaine and then you're getting in the house after

(11:18):
doing a couple of lines, you're still in control. But
then eventually like that's that thing is gonna start to
pop and then you have to be more and more
and more, you know, like your emotions. And yeah, he
understood the assignment very well, I think, and on every take,
you know, he was like, hey, did I I'm over
the top? Am I not over the top or you know,

(11:38):
and I'm like, no, dude, like go go go crazy.
You know, it's like you're desperate, you know, it's it's
desperation what you have right now, and people are gonna
hate you. But that's the whole point, right, So Yeah,
he did fantastic And I think Danel did a great job.

Speaker 6 (11:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
I think that's a really fantastic point too, because I
I have seen this with my movies where people will say, like,
I hate that character.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
And they don't.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
Sometimes they don't like the movie because they hate that character.
But you're supposed to hate that character. So you have
to like remind yourself the reason I made this movie
is because I wanted to make a movie about villains,
or this character is meant to be the villain. And
it sounds like Daniel was in that or kind of
in that mindset of like, but I don't like it,
not necessarily. I don't want to be hated, but you know,
sometimes you have to be reminded like I'm a bad guy.

(12:26):
I'm not good. I don't need I have to go
against my instinct as who I am and become this asshole. Yeah,
what kind of do you get? Other kinds of questions
from actors on any of the projects, not just on
this one. Do you ever get questions from your actors
that you've learned as a director how to give responses,
Like there's anything specific that you have learned on how

(12:48):
to direct actors.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
I think, like, for example, with the remedy we have
you know, we have timuntin Or and others from Thirteen
Reasons Why, we have Lung and Thor from gen v
Jones from Shape of Water, like we have like our
cast is really called that Chris Molkey from Whiplash, and
these actors have been around for many years, just like Ted.
But the difference between failure and the remedies, like, for example,

(13:13):
failure it's only one like you know, we only we
had other actors that they've been around, but not in
the same level of like you know, shows or movies
or whatever. So in the remedy, I it was fascinating
because you know, they're used to like big, big productions,
and the remedy, like I said, is the is the
biggest film I've done. But for them it's also it's

(13:34):
an independent film, right, so it was very interesting to
you know, let them know that they were safe, you know,
on this independent you know, space we're not gen V
which is a massive Amazon show, but you know that
we have the same quality and that we have the
same crew, and you know, so you have to really
give actors confidence and you know, so they're like very

(13:58):
you know, thinking, Okay, we're in a safe environment, Alex
cares about all cares about our work. And also to
tell them.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Like, here's about the film at the end of the day,
Like I think, when we're on a set, you're all
in it to make art. Even if you're there for
a paycheck, you're still you're still making art when it's
all said and done.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
Absolutely, And also like you know that that I care
about details and I care about them and it's not
like I'm just throwing them on the fire, right, Yeah,
which I don't. I don't. I don't see it that way.
But a lot of people they see it like that.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
But no, for sure, I mean, honestly, a lot of
actors are a lot of people when you place a
camera on them, even veterans, they're thinking, how are they
going to show me? YEA, naturally that's that's they don't
have control over it. So they're thinking, what what is
he going to do with me. So making them comfortable
and knowing like specifically what you are going to be
showing of them is kind of paramount.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
Absolutely absolutely give them trust to give them like just
so they're comfortable. And I'm like Doug Jones, which is
a legend. I mean, I love Germonro and we talked
about you know him and on set, and he was
he love what we did on set, like what you
know what we worked on together. And I was like, dude,
like you have I mean, you're you're a legend, but yeah,

(15:09):
but you know a true legend like you know me,
I love Red. I love Red, and I have a
scene where I'm like, you know, dog, I'm gonna put
a love ren on you, like a lot. And he
was like, oh cool, I like it interesting. So you know,
we didn't shy the DP and I we put a
lot of red like and he loved it. He was like,
oh my god, this is great. So you know it's
cool that you know, like I said, they do bigger

(15:32):
stuff and Mark commercial or whatever, but on this one
we can go nuts control again. But like they feel like,
oh my god, we did something unique.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
That's it right there, doing something unique. And I think
that's one of the keys I found when I'm talking
to actors, being like, we're trying something, even if it
feels weird, Like at the worst case scenario, we tried something.
Best case scenario, it's going to come out amazing, and
but let's let's try something and just trust me. Just
trust that I believe in this vision. And most of

(16:03):
the time, I feel like people are along for the ride.
They want to trust someone's.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
Vision absolutely, and I feel like if they trust you,
that's you know, it takes a bit for them because
they don't know you, they're still getting to know you
and said, but I feel like once they do, it's
it's awesome. It's awsome when there's a mutual trust between
you know, collaborators, and it's like, Okay, the one thing
I want for actors is to look great. That's all

(16:29):
I want. Like, I don't want him to look bad, right,
But I get it. You know, they're constantly in the
character and they're very vulnerable in front of the camera,
so you have to be like, yeah, you know, like
I hear you, let's talk about it. You know, you
know what didn't work for you, and then you know,
make it work for both of us. So I learned that,
you know, throughout the years with Ted as well, because

(16:51):
Ted also you know, it's fascinating. We were talking about
Sam Raimi, we're talking about David Lynch because he worked
with these guys and again he's like, I don't you know,
they don't do long takes like they always caught man.
So so it was fascinating for him to transition for
like cotting cotting cutting too like a one take, and

(17:11):
you know, he can tell his friends and everybody in
Hollywood like, hey, we did that one take. So I
feel like it's co when actors do something unique, that's
what they want, you know, not to do something that
they do all the time, but something that.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
I love that Alex talks about mutual trust on set.
I believe that that is pivotal to finding performances. If
the cast trusts you and understands that you are in
this together to make the best movie possible, you will
create the best movie possible. Finding a way to utilize

(17:49):
what they can bring to the film, well you bring
what you can and knowing that you're both filmmakers, understanding
that everyone on set is a filmmaker and it's not
just you. You aren't the A tour making something on
your own that doesn't exist. The concept of the A
tour still relies on it their cast and crew to

(18:10):
especially if they're trying to find unique performances. It's not
just reading the lines, it's not just delivering the words
that are written on the page, and it's not just
doing exactly what the director says. It's having an understanding
that they can trust themselves to be creative and that
they can bring the character to the screen. I find

(18:31):
that a lot of times the cast will come to
me and be like, what is my motivation? What am
I trying to do? And I've realized countless times I
know less than they know. I've thought about this character
less than you have, especially if it's like a side
character that is, you know, just trying to get exposition
out or get through the scene or add you know,

(18:53):
the beats that are needed to get my lead characters
or my story to the next point you're going. I
have thought about why this character is doing this more
than anything, or more than I have, and you can
offer insight and suggestion into what you can bring next up.

(19:13):
I talked with Spooky Madison about the whys of the
character and what the motivation is behind them, and how
to properly get that point across to your cast and
crew in those stressful moments of trying to.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Make a movie.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Is there anything you've learned, any tips and tricks that
you've found indirecting talent, Like for me personally, I have
found acting in my own stuff. I purposely wrote moments
for myself that were going to challenge me because I
want to know, because it's stuff that I'm going to
ask people to do in the future. If you're going
to be covered in blood doing these like screaming through

(19:51):
the woods sequences and I'm asking someone to do that,
I want to know what that's like.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
I think that so I've worked with many different types
of actors. I've worked with with theater actors who were
in a film that I was maybe directing, and I've
worked with film actors who were doing like commercial for
the first time. And I think that understanding the situation
that they're in versus who they are in the industry

(20:17):
really does determine how you speak to an actor. So,
for instance, the theater actor that I was working with,
she's real big and she enunciates and she's making sure
the back row hears her, but you don't have to
do that on film. So and I learned, And if
anyone's listening to this, which I hope they are, I

(20:40):
have learned that when you're speaking with theater actors, specifically,
when you speak very literally, when you say, like the
camera can hear you breathing, you don't need to do
anything else. When you speak very literally to them, they
get it because they work on like improv and they
work on like challenges when they're studying lines. They do

(21:02):
like games basically in theater. So it's like explaining the
rules of a game to them and they'll get it instantly.
It's perfect.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
That's awesome. Yeah, And I've had similar experiences and worked
with people. I like the fact that you say, like,
you know, film actors in commercials, theater actors and movies,
like there is such a massive difference between these. Even
working with people who are trained in comedy versus people
trained in drama, the difference between them and trying to

(21:34):
figure out, like, how do I communicate like this, It's
okay to be serious in this moment because it's going
to come across as funny without you being over the
top silly or the opposite where someone is very serious
and dry and I'm like, no, go for it, O big.
So I really like those kind of little I find
it challenging sometimes to communicate because being an animation I

(21:58):
always just gave line reads, like that's what you do
in animation, or you give a ton of reads, you
give a million different takes, and you're like, can you
try it happier, try it sadder, do all of these things,
and you're just reading lines. So now when you're getting
into when I'm getting into, like working with actors and
people performing on camera, it's a little bit harder because
I can't just do that, And finding actually acting has

(22:19):
taught me ways to communicate that a little bit better.
So for as far as like when you get to set,
like rehearsal and figuring out what is sort of your
process for preparing for the shoot with your cast.

Speaker 6 (22:37):
Table reads are incredibly helpful. I had a table read
a week and a half ago for the first time
for my cast of What's Wrong Wendy, and that table
read literally made me rewrite half of the script. And
it's only because you know, you hear your stuff out loud.
And you're like, oh, that sucks, and then you but like, also,

(23:03):
my actors are so smart. I mean I really lucked out.
Like these people are incredible, and they all brought like
an idea or they had a suggestion, and they were
really passionate about like the character I made, which I
thought was awesome. And so yeah, we had this table

(23:23):
read and the actors basically performed that beautifully. But I
found all these things wrong with my script, and I
changed and I added stuff and trimmed it and and
then another thing that I will try to do is
I'll try to meet with them kind of individually, at
least the ones that I know will have a lot
of screen time with a particular character. I'd like to

(23:45):
I like to get those two together. I also really
like to do podcasts with my cast up to the shoot,
not only for you know, maintaining the hype of the movie,
but it's also really fun to kind of see people
Lucy goosey and not in like a professional setting. Because podcasts,
while they are interviews, they are you know, fun, They're

(24:07):
supposed to be fun. You know, people listen to them.
So it's cool to see the cast kind of bond
over things and create inside jokes before we get to set.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, that's one of the reasons why on The Good Exorcist,
I wanted to make the whole movie on one set
because I knew I wasn't going to meet these people
pretty much until the day of, because I do the
exact same thing. I love It's funny that you talked
about the the casting, you know, being something that people
don't come into any longer and talk and schmooze and

(24:38):
sell themselves over their actual performance, because I love that moment.
I love talking with people and so and knowing that
we're gonna have fun on set together, because the worst
feeling for me is getting someone on set who I'm like, oh,
we aren't copasetic, Like this is not vibing at all.
I would rather have an actor who's a little maybe
a little less experienced, that is going to have fun

(25:01):
and be willing to play in my little world than
someone who is like the best in town. So I
made sure on The Good Exerocis that we were on
one set because I'm like, Okay, we're not going to
meet in advance. I want this to be like camp,
Like I want to come to the same place every
day and by day three we all feel completely comfortable.

Speaker 6 (25:18):
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's I think that's great. Like,
I think there's a strange phenomenon going on in the
indie world these days where people are trying to get
in and get done, and I think that they're not
realizing the process of doing it and between.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
This is such a great point. Oh my god. I
love this because it is so true that every movie
I've worked on recently, it has been like, Ah, we
just need to go. We've got three hours to film
today and we have to be done. And I don't
work that way. I'm always like, give myself an extra
half hour because I know we're going to be cracking jokes.

Speaker 6 (25:59):
Yeah, But also like there is a happy medium that
people can have where you guys have fun and you're
getting stuff done. I mean, if you can't have fun
and get something done, then I don't think that that
version should be in a position of power on a
movie set. We're playing pretend for a living.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
So yeah, yeah, I mean that's totally true. I mean,
and as filmmakers and as people who wrote write our
own stuff a lot of the time, or are seeing
our own things coming from our imagination play out, it's
much easier to take it very serious. Like I just
feel like when I get there, I want to be
in serious mode. And that's why I try to surround

(26:41):
myself with people who kind of take me out of
that and remind me, remind me and can continue to
keep all of the cast having fun, so, you know,
fun to a certain extent. When the camera rolls, it's like, Okay,
now we got a place. And it depends on the
scene if it's a very serious moment, like yeah, we're
gonna have a serious day to day, but that does
mean that after we're done, we can't crack jokes and

(27:03):
have fun. So I think surrounding myself with people who
I enjoy being around is one of those key things
to making sure that you're getting good performances.

Speaker 6 (27:14):
Absolutely yeah, And and with people when people have the
freedom to be themselves, you know, authentically and have fun
and crack jokes, they do give better work and better
performances because morale is up all around.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
What about collaboration when you're on set film and directing
actors and figuring out performances, do you allow like a
lot of not necessarily improv but even like conversation about
the why and what and how this is all coming together.

Speaker 6 (27:45):
Yeah. Absolutely, collaboration. That's like one of my favorite words.
I use it often, and I I really do encourage
people get like when we had that table read, all
my actors are like, but what if? What if my
character did this? And I, you know, like, I love
hearing that because it shows passion for what we're doing

(28:05):
in that moment, and I love I have an actor
who I just recently cast in Wendy and she's always
asking me the whys in the question or in the script.
She'll be reading the script and I'll get a message
and she'll screenshot it and send it and she'll say
why blah blah blah blah blah. And I love that
because she's so into it. I have a boundary with

(28:27):
collaboration on my sets because nobody listened, like none of
the actors are allowed to listen to anybody but the director.
But the director will allow suggestions from other people who
take it into consideration, but ultimately what is to be
done will be said by the director. That is the boundary,

(28:49):
and I think that's pretty normal. But I love collaborating.
I love it. I want all the suggestions.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah. One of my favorite questions I get is the
question about a character's background, especially when it's very pointed
and not just why what is the character's background?

Speaker 4 (29:09):
Like that?

Speaker 3 (29:09):
To me, I'm like kind of bored with I can
I can give it to you. I generally have some concepts,
but I love it when someone's like, how did my
character get to this point in their life? Or there's
like something very specific. I just got that question from
a character who is a relatively small part in the
in the movie I'm working on right now, which it's

(29:29):
like an action comedy called Get That Dick and It,
and the character he's in a few scenes, he's sort
of a goon character. And he asked me very specific,
really like why is my character in this situation?

Speaker 4 (29:43):
Why?

Speaker 3 (29:44):
How did they get to this point? And I was like,
that is such a cool question to me because he
isn't a major character. But without that, without that, what
reason to why he is in this position? It could
totally change the way this dude is going to act
in that moment.

Speaker 6 (29:59):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. I have an actor on Wendy who's
doing the same. He messages me all the time asking like, Hey,
I'm gonna go to Goodwill? Do you think I should
get like a vest? And I'm like, fuck, yeah, I
get a vest. Let's try that out. And I love that.
You're right. It's it just shows that they're so into it,
which is really like, I don't know, it makes you

(30:22):
feel good, you know.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
And ultimately they're trying to figure out tiny details because
without the bigger picture, they can't figure out like why
would I wear what I wear? Why I have tattoos?
Is that okay as this character? Because it doesn't make
sense if it doesn't make sense, Like I need to
make my tattoos make sense. I remember, I'm the Good Exorcist.
My Avery, who plays Avery Maryfield, who plays the character Stanley,

(30:47):
showed up and he had one pant leg rolled up,
and I was like, why do you have one pant
leg rolled up? He's like, dude, hear me out, So
it looks funny, right, But also what if because he
works on this ranch, he's always cruising around on like
a shitty old dirt bike, and so he rolls up
his pant legs so it doesn't get caught when he's riding.
And I was like, that's such a weird little detail.

Speaker 6 (31:09):
That.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Like, so if you watch the movie, Stanley always has
a pant leg rolled up for no reason, Like we
never explain that, but if you ask, why is his
pant leg rolled up, we have a reason.

Speaker 6 (31:19):
That's that's beautiful. Actually, that's awesome. I mean that makes sense.
I recently did an interview when someone asked to be
from an actor's point of view of like how do
I get into character? And I really enjoy creating the
lore of characters. I like to know little secrets about
the characters that I'm portraying, what's in their pockets, like

(31:41):
what their favorite color is. I think that's special, like
a special connection between actor and character. And for Wendy recently,
because we have an Indiegogo perk that's called the Wendy Bible,
which is basically all the character lore plus the script.
It's like this huge hardcover that we're creating. And I
created all this lore and like for all these characters,

(32:04):
and I was able to send them to the actors,
and I mean then they did the table read and
it ended up changing my script. Like I gave them
all this material and they took it and then they
performed it, and I was like that doesn't work, that
doesn't work, And then it was just such a cool process.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
If you have time to sit down with your cast
and crew and do a table read, there is nothing
that teaches you more about your film than those moments.
And I've talked about this on past episodes, but taking
the time to read through your script with people is
it's so insightful, an eye opening as to what you've made.

(32:43):
When I was making Get That Dick, I sat down
with Max and Daniel and Sean, and Max and Sean,
who are the two lead actors of the movie, and Daniel,
who's my producer, and the three of us sat down
and did a read through on Zoom and the amount
I learned about what jokes worked, about how the performances

(33:04):
were going to be delivered, and about what value I
could add to the movie through these two lead actors
was crucial to getting on set and actually making this movie.
If you have the time to do that, go for it. Alternatively,
sometimes you're not gonna have the time. And I talked
to Dylan Brown about how he made his found footage

(33:27):
movies in his experimental movies and the difference between that
and having the time to do that, having to find
it in the moment, and he has some great insight
into how you can get performances from people in the
moment on something like a found footage movie. Okay, so
when you're filming experimental movies or a found footage movie,

(33:52):
what goes through? Like how does the process work to
find performances. I'm sure Tahojo one was very different than
Tahojoe two, which is very different than the Summer We
Died because of them being very different movies. But what
does that process like to find performances?

Speaker 6 (34:07):
You know?

Speaker 2 (34:08):
So for us it was like, especially with Tahoe Joe,
it was we have to be as organic and convincing
as possible because Mike and I were playing ourselves in it,
and so we were thinking, if we're gonna make a
big foot movie that's not going to be looked at
like the schlocky bigfoot stuff that's out there that people go,
oh yeah, yeah, you know. We we were like, how

(34:29):
do we get people on board with our version of
like a serious take on it. And if we're going
to be in it, we owe it to ourselves to
be like very natural, don't overly you know, play up
any performance. So for that first one, it was it
was really like listening to ourselves back, you know. We

(34:52):
would we would watch footage back and sometimes we'd go, I,
that is not how I would normally say that, I'm
actually I'm acting this way up, you know, So we
would scale it back, and then Tahoe Joe too kind
of the same way as far as he and I
until the second half picks up and it goes into
much more monster territory. Then we were sort of okay
with performances, getting a little just a little sillier, a

(35:16):
little more willing to throw in one liners that wouldn't
normally be there.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
We were just cool with it, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
And then one of the interesting things that we do
with my particular company here in Reno is I work
with a lot of vets and first responders who use
acting as like a therapy for PTSD. So I know,
many times going into stuff, I'm not always going to
get the greatest acting performance because most of these people

(35:44):
are not trained in that at all. So it's really
just cultivating what I can from them and then just
making it work. And sometimes it's just accepting this is
not going to be everybody's cup of tea, but Damn,
am I proud of what this guy did on camera?
Somebody who's never been on camera before. I'm gonna go
ahead and use this because I know what it took

(36:06):
for he or she to get in front of the
camera to do this. So there's some sacrifice there as
far as performances. Now. On the summer we died, I
sought some actually trained actresses that I knew had done
a lot of work together, and I specifically picked three
girls that I know were friends because I needed them

(36:27):
to have chemistry, Like there was no way anybody would
believe these three girls were going to be very close
if I didn't pick three girls that really knew each other.

Speaker 4 (36:35):
In our community.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
And it was so amazing because I would start directing
and those girls would go off on their own stuff,
having their own conversations in character, and sometimes I wanted
to break up, you know, break it up and be like,
excuse me, ladies, like you have gone completely off the rails.
But then it got so fascinating that I just started
letting them do their thing, and I thought, there is

(36:58):
no way I could write this. These are twenty three
year old girls having twenty three year old girl banter
I'm not going to write that as good as what
they're delivering, So I would just let it go and
just I kind of sat back as an observer in
that movie, which was really interesting.

Speaker 4 (37:13):
I love that let it go.

Speaker 6 (37:14):
Man.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
That's like a huge part of what I've learned is
as much as I think I know my movie, I
need to let it go and let my cast take
over their characters because they know better. They've thought more
about it than I have. I guarantee, even the smallest role,
I know that they've thought about it more than I have,
and letting it go and letting them do their thing.

(37:36):
I also like that you talked about casting in two
very different spectrums, because you know, as independent filmmakers, we
often have to cast our friends and family, and they're
not always the best performers, and it it takes a
lot of work to try to coax a performance out
of them in a completely different way than you would
coax a performance out of an actual like trained actor

(37:57):
or someone who really wants to be there, someone who's
doing it for the you know, the paycheck, or I
had my mom in Graywoods plot and it was one
of most It was so fun, absolutely a blast and
I think her performance is great in it. No one
has ever complained about my mom's performance. She's never acted before.
She has no idea what she's doing. But you can

(38:18):
feel the energy between us and like the just the
fun that we were having doing it.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
That's so cool. Yeah, I've been trying. I have been
just like constantly trying to get my wife. I'm like,
will you do it? Will you do it? And she's
like no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
She she was.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
Like grew up an emo kid. She loves listening to
her Landa del Rey and solitude and reading books and
hanging outside gardening. She is not the performer type, right,
And so I've tried. I'm like, I want to work
with you, and she just won't do it. But I have,
you know, gone to the other side of things where
I have got to go get my friends and stuff

(38:57):
and work with them. And many of them who never
thought they could ever be in front of the camera,
they have like anxieties and stuff. And then they got
going and I'm like, where has this been like my
whole life, Like you had this performance in you and
I didn't know you could do this, and in the
summer we died. There's the sequence with the girl em

(39:19):
and her alcoholic dad at the table, and it's like
the most dramatic scene in the movie. And John Podash,
who plays the dad, had never done like a really
dramatic monologue or anything before. He was always very much
type cast because he has the big beard and the
long hair and always kind of playing the bad guy,
or he played like a lot of pirates, or he's

(39:40):
done like a lot of movies with the Mahall brothers,
always in like heavy makeup and stuff. So I cast
John and I was like, I don't know if this
is your cup of tea, but how would you feel
about taking on like a really dramatic role. And he's like, oh,
I would love to have never got to do it.
And that scene was done in one take, and we

(40:02):
did one take, only I never shot another moment of
film on it because John got so into the role
and he let a performance go that I didn't know
he had in him, and he screams and it was
all kind of on his own. He just started feeling
it and he let it go, and when he was done,
he actually just walked off the set and he picked

(40:24):
up Mandy's cat in her house and he just sat
there and pet this cat and was trying to calm
himself down because that character is not him at all
in real life. And I remember looking at Mandy and
I was like, we can't film this again. There's no
way I'll get this performance out of John again. I
could as I was running the camera. I could just
feel this performance coming out of him that I don't

(40:46):
think he even knew was there, and it just happened,
and it was so freaking cool to see that take
place naturally.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
Dude, isn't that amazing?

Speaker 3 (40:55):
And when you see you talked, you said he never
got to do this is what you said, he said,
And to me, that's like the antithesis of trying of
making low budget movies is doing everything that people don't
get to do, finding a way to like get them
into something. The same thing with my buddy Keith. I

(41:15):
say the best performance in Greywood's plot is Keith's character,
because Keith is not an actor. Dude had no interest
in being in front of the camera, doesn't care. It's
just we grew up making movies together because I wanted
to run the camera and he was always the kid
that was around. So he acted in my stuff when
we were really little, never wanted to really act, and
then I was just like, dude, I want you to

(41:35):
star in it with me, like just try. And then
he has a scene where he gives this really powerful
like dude, I'm not.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
Getting paid for this.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
This is so much work and like this really heartfelt moment,
and we did it one dake.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
I filmed it.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
I had the camera it cuts between me and him
in the actual edit because because he does it all
in one time, and I only got one take of it,
so to do any sort of edit to that one take,
I had to cut away to myself just to like
make sure that it flowed properly. But he gave it
all in like one amazing take. I'm like, he's never

(42:11):
doing that again. I get that one and that's it.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Yeah, That's how I felt, you know. It was like,
first of all, I was looking at what it was
doing to this guy, this like very kind, gentle giant,
and he he like kind of broke down after having
to scream at this girl and say all these awful things,
and I'm like, I don't think I could put him
through that again, even if it was actually yeah, and
then yeah, it's just I knew when when he he

(42:35):
stood up and he threw throws her book off the
table and he screams this like horrible, primal scream in
her face and he leaves. And I remember almost how
I had to control myself not to like jump when
I had the camera there, because I just wasn't expecting
the ferocity. And I just remember going, you know, in
my head, like this is the one. Let him walk

(42:56):
out of here, Let's roll this a little bit, don't
cut yet, don't cut yet. And then when it was done,
I just I knew, I knew in my heart like
that is the take, because it caught me by surprise too.

Speaker 3 (43:08):
Do you feel like acting in stuff and being on
you know, in front of the camera and having to
see yourself learning to perform basically, even if it is
a version of yourself, you're still acting in your own way.
Do you think that that's helped you in talking with
cast or talking with the performers in your movies, the
actors and grow have you learned ways to communicate and

(43:32):
kind of felt what it's like to be in their shoes?

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Oh my god, yeah, I get so nervous now. It's
so funny because they always tell me they're nervous because
they know, like, I am so passionate when I'm talking
about what we're making, and I think they can see
my excitement. I get so like crazy and excited about
it that I know that many of my actors have
said they get nervous that I'm not going to be

(43:56):
happy with their performance, and they start to get really
really nervous when the cameras and then I'm like, you
guys have no idea how nervous I am to have
to interact with you. Because I'm not an actor. I
just do it out of necessity because we.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Started this character.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
So I have like full blown panic modes where I'm like,
oh my gosh, I have to go work with you know, Hannah.
Hannah was in the summer we died, and I did
a short film with her and we had to do
this scene where I was wearing a camera, like a
helmet cam, so it was all from my point of view,
and I'm tied to a chair and Hannah has me

(44:33):
like sitting there on plastic and there's this like creepy
guy with a saw and you know, something horrible is
gonna happen to me. In the short film, but she's
like seductively like toying with my character. And there's almost
this scene where like you think that you know something
sexual is going to go down, but it's not. I'm
actually in the short, I get my dick ripped off
by this awful creature that she has living in this

(44:53):
basement with her. But I was I was having a
horrible anxiety attack of like, you know, how do I
how do I deliver my lines up to her standard?
She's an actress that knows what she can do, and
like what if I am falling short, you know, to

(45:15):
what she's expecting? And then is she gonna think is
my directing and my editing skill is going to be
just as bad as my acting? And I started to
get really in my head over that, and thankfully we
had good on screen chemistry and she was so kind
of like easy going that I was like, Okay, this
is not so hard, Like she's actually so open to

(45:36):
everything that we're doing and even throwing her own ideas
out there. It actually helped me kind of calm down.
But yeah, man, I have learned to not really expect
too much from my actors, especially on like a first
or second take, because I need a few to get
going myself. And I think when I first started filming,
I would get like, come on, we gotta go, we

(45:57):
gotta get this going. I gotta get to the next
And now I'm like, I know this shit is hard.
I am not going to expect you guys to nail
it on the first time, Like, no way.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
Yeah, when you do, when you act, and when you
put yourself in their shoes. And this doesn't just go
for acting, this goes for doing any part of the process.
When you sort of learn what it's like to actually
do that part of the process in any form of art,
you get a respect for it. I remember doing a
little the short film Little Lucha.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
And the Big Deal.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
I wasn't nervous at all to act because I was
acting with a friend. I've acted in a bunch of shit.
Now I'm like, I'm pretty I'm pretty veteran at getting
my lines out.

Speaker 4 (46:34):
I can do that.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
And my character was silly for as kind of a
version of myself. So I was like, this isn't going
to be tough at all.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
And I was asking.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
I was acting with my friend Scarlett, so I'm like,
my whole goal is just to make her laugh if
I'm making her break on the takes. I'm doing my
job so, you know, to a certain extent. But I
just I that was sart of my goal.

Speaker 4 (46:52):
And there was a.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Moment, because we were co directing and co starring, there
was a moment where she was like, Hey, I want
to be behind the camera for your close ups.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Is that cool?

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Like, I won't be acting with you, A'll just deliver
my lines behind the camera. I'm like, yeah, that's totally fine.
And then I started acting to a wall and I
shut down. I realized, like how challenging that is. It
gave me a respect for like the dudes who film
like green screen with like balls hanging out in front
of them and they have to act like that ball
as a dragon. I'm like, I couldn't do it. I

(47:22):
couldn't do it. It seems so easy, but it is
so difficult to act off of nothing. And it gave
me an understanding of that. And I will never I
will never be like, why is my actor not getting
their lines out when they're just when they're not acting
to someone.

Speaker 4 (47:37):
I get it.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Now, yeah, oh absolutely, you know. And the other thing
is like I'm working and found footage I do so much,
you know, relying on improv, and so I'm usually pretty
quick witted with stuff like that. I have a pretty
good sense of, you know, what I'm gonna say when

(47:58):
somebody's delivering their lines, Like I'm already kind of a
step ahead on where I'm gonna go with stuff. But
when I'm expecting them to do it and I'm not
in the scene with them, I always have to remember
that there are actors who were really really trained on
line by line delivery. This is what they were trained
to do, and they have a full script and everything
is in there written out, and then here I am

(48:19):
putting them out in the desert and I'm like, okay,
we're gonna have a moment where you guys are going
to talk about going to this party. Go And then
there some of them are looking at me like what
the fuck, dude.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Like what you're talking about?

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Yeah, yeah, And I'm going it's okay, I want the organic,
you know stuff. So just do this as you would
if you were, you know, in real life. You group
of girls. Just go and I want to see what happens.

Speaker 4 (48:43):
And I did.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
I had to learn to just be patient with stuff.

Speaker 7 (48:46):
Now.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Luckily, most of them pick up way faster than I
could personally. I'm like, damn, you guys have taken to
this like so naturally. But with me, yeah, I mean,
I have never been more nervous in my life than
and when I did that short film with Hannah and Mike,
because I had to be in an uncomfortable situation with

(49:07):
two people who I really respect as actors. And then
here I am like having to play this like sleeves
ball tied to a chair, knowing that like a lot
of the performance inges on my reaction to them hurting
me and doing all these awful things to me. And
I just I just was like, if I don't nail this,
what are they gonna think? And I'm supposed to be

(49:28):
in control here, I'm supposed to be the director and
in control. And I mean, I have mad respect for
anybody that can write and direct and produce and act
in their own stuff. And you know, I've done it
out of necessity, and so anybody that does it because
they want to do it, I'm like, you are a
sick You are a sick individual.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Ah, Yes, aren't we all sick individuals? In low budget filmmaking.
We work so hard to try to find we're really
so hard to just go make this thing, these projects
that are so complicated, and we have so little that
we're able to utilize when or able to take advantage

(50:10):
of while making these low budget movies. And Dylan, you know,
talking about how having to cast yourself and put yourself
into these movies, it's something many of us have done
with low budget movies, or casting friends, casting family, casting
people who have never acted before. I put my mom
in Graywood's plot, and she was awesome, but she had

(50:31):
never acted before. So it's a totally different experience than
most people deal with working with actual cast and crew,
and the smallest things can make the biggest difference. Buying lunches,
going out and getting drinks with them the weekend before
or a few weeks before, just talking to them about
the project beyond simply hey, we're going to be making

(50:54):
this thing, actually engaging them. And I talked to Michael
Perrow kind of about that, how you can engage your
cast and crew in advance of filming in order to
make it something that everyone feels like they can actually
take pride in, and finding ways to tie the team
together to make to allow the cast to understand that

(51:17):
they're going to be working together on this project and
form those bonds in advance. So do you have any
advice or a specific approach to help your cast build
chemistry quickly so that they can work together on the day.

Speaker 7 (51:36):
I think we did a few very casual rehearsals on
Self Driver, and that was like invaluable with the main
sort of the main cast just hanging out for a
couple afternoons, going for lunch and we'd run the scene
and talk about like everyone's sort of motivation. But I
think more than the actual rehearsal, it was just you

(52:00):
out understand each other's vibes and getting to know each
other so that when you get to say, you have
a little bit of a shorthand and you trust everyone
and you're not no one is meeting someone for the
first time on set. I think that is probably the
most valuable thing.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
Especially in low budget, Like you're not these people are
coming out, they're not getting paid a ton, they're generally
not surviving off of your movie, so you're asking a
lot of them.

Speaker 7 (52:26):
Yeah, totally, so having I think, yeah, developing that shorthand
is really important.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
Yeah, I think there's a there's an element to a
film that to me is like going to camp, yeah,
and it's you're not going to be together for a
super long time. You don't know if you'll ever work
with these people again. You kind of go into it
hoping that maybe there's a future together, but in the
end you're just kind of like, we're going to play
and see what happens and then go our separate ways.

(52:56):
And so making sure that they have that bond, whether
that that that bond means a lot of different things
to a lot of different performers, but finding that bond
is is like a paramount moment in the process totally.

Speaker 7 (53:12):
And the more you can do to facilitate that, just
like being easy going on set and like letting the
vibe be one that like is sort of open to everyone,
I think is really important. And if you're sort of
too strict or too like clamped down on an idea,
it's harder to get that energy and get people into

(53:33):
that headspace. So and then you have the like that
you're not getting the best out of people when they're nervous.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
You know, yeah, or if they're sitting there going like,
what's the director going to say? Because he's he's the
boss man. Like A big part of being a director
is feeling the vibe of the room at any given moment.
I can't tell you how many times I've just been like,
I'm gonna I'm gonna let these two go be goofy
together because they're they're bonding in that way and this

(54:00):
person is here and they want to film like that's
they want to get into their character. I'm gonna go
shoot stuff with them first while they're in the mood
and vibe in on the movie, and I'm gonna let
them go play, and then I'll bring them in after
they've got their chuckles out and we can actually get
to work with them and they'll have some funny ideas
brough it.

Speaker 7 (54:17):
Yeah, it's yeah, it's really important to look. Everyone has
a different way of working, and I think every actor
I've worked with has a different approach, and you know
that doesn't You can work with that if you know
how to, like, if you're flexible, if you're open to
letting people do things the way they want to do
and finding I think a lot of it is refereeing

(54:39):
between two styles of acting. Like if if you have
one super serious person and then one person who's likes
just to have fun they don't. That doesn't have to
break the scene if you're the one in the middle
making sure everyone is like writing the same wave at
that exact moment.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
I think there's also like a certain element of you
use the term referee, where you're like, in your head,
you have a concept of what you want to see
on screen, and it's never going to be that because
people have their own little quirks and their own little
way of doing things. So it's finding a way to
like bond your original concept with what they're doing and
finding the joy and what they're bringing to the screen.

Speaker 7 (55:19):
Sometimes totally. I think that's the as an editor, I
learned that a long time ago working with like less
experienced filmmakers who got really like tied to their script
and you know, not really willing to flex on set,
and then you get these really wooden performances from people
because the lines that were on the page were just
not natural to that person's way of being. And so

(55:44):
my method always is to like I usually have a
few lines that I want to hit, or it's usually
more just the arc of the scene as long as
we're like going in the right direction. And we're hitting
the plot points. I'm pretty flexible with how things get
said because I know, especially at this level, like anyone
you bring on board is going to find a more

(56:05):
natural way for them to say the thing that you're
trying to convey. And as long as the thing that
you're trying to convey is coming across, I'm happy. Like
I don't need I'm not I'm not Tarantino, I don't
need my lines like said verbatim.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
Yeah, and I think that they're I mean, and your
cast isn't going to be the cast that Tarantino can get.
Like they can't they're not going to take six months
to learn a you know, specific dialect that you're writing
in versus the person that like we've I wrote my
entire the Good Extrasist script for Minnesota, like I expect
it was going to have a Minnesota accent, and then

(56:41):
when I had to go to Austin, Texas to film
it with Rebel without a crew, I everyone had a
Texas accent, so half of my lines didn't translate. They
they don't say ufta into Texas Like that doesn't make sense. So,
like there were funny moments though, where I got away
with like just try saying it, say it in your
southern accent, and it made for some funny little beats.

(57:03):
But that's playing with things and trying it. And as
an editor, you understand, like we we we can essentially
take in an infinite amount of footage, Like no, we
don't want to work with that much. We want to
have the best takes we can and be able to
like edit relatively quickly, but we get to take a lot.
So if someone's doing something a specific way that's in

(57:24):
the script, there's no harm in that and just saying
like do it how you would want to do it,
like say it like how you'd say it.

Speaker 7 (57:30):
Yeah, I think that's for sure. And like, as an editor,
my biggest pet peeve is getting seven takes where they're
just the same. It's the same, Like the director's like, okay,
do it again, but better, and you're like, okay, they're
going to do it the same exact same, like maybe
they'll hit this line a little bit stronger, but there's
no like exploration, and so you're like, okay, look at

(57:51):
the bat last take, look at the second last take,
and then those are the ones to work with. But
if you're going to do takes. My opinion is, you know,
explore or in that time and trust that you can
piece it together and post and find the things that like,
are you know, that tell the story the way you
want to tell them.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
So do you have a specific way of communicating getting
those different takes, like to find different performances from someone
who maybe is struggling with doing it differently.

Speaker 7 (58:24):
That the hardest part is yeah, I think most of
the time when I'm casting, at least especially on Self Driver,
it was very like important for me to work with
people who were open to and had some experience improvising,
because I wanted that energy and I knew that's how
I wanted to like to work on set. But we

(58:46):
had a couple actors who just I think out of
nervousness didn't want to do that or just weren't experienced,
and so they would always like very quickly go back
to the sort of verbatim script, And it was I
think the main thing was just giving those people the
confidence to start exploring and doing a few extra takes,

(59:06):
and getting the other cast in the scene to like
prod them a little bit off the line and give
them get them to sort of give them prompts, Yeah,
that would inspire something that is not on the page.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
I think sometimes some of the most helpful something that's
most helpful to cast who is maybe struggling or unsure
of themselves is to really like find someone who is
and show them through your director and actor communication like
this is we could have the same thing, like this
is how this interaction goes, and then you see them

(59:43):
start to like learn and grow in that moment I had.
That's what it was like working with my mom when
she was acting. Daniel and I were there. I was filming,
and Daniel's was just there for moral support basically, But
Daniel and I would sort of start doing like a
little communication of acting back and forth, and my mom
would see like, oh, I don't have to go verbatim.
I can try some things and it may or I

(01:00:04):
could tell Josh no, you know, she's my mom, so
she thinks everything I do is perfect and it's not.
Obviously some of the lines don't read like how she
should say them, or there were certain things she didn't
really want to say, and I had purposely written in
a way that she was going to say vulgar stuff
to me because I thought that would be funny, and
it gave her the confidence though to say, like, I
don't really want to say this, let's can we change

(01:00:25):
it to something else? And then I came up with
five other things for her to say.

Speaker 7 (01:00:30):
Yeah, I think that's that's great. I think being having
the flexibility to meet people where they are, both like
in terms of what's on the page and just energetically
on set is the most is sort of a superpower,
especially at this level where you're not working with the
most experienced actors and you might have like one or
two who can like help you keep the energy up

(01:00:53):
on set, but then there's always going to be that
other guy who's not quite there yet. And keeping them
a part of the team and letting them like not
alienating them is I think a huge thing too.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
I'm curious about your casting process then, because it sounds
like you had a pretty diverse group of people, like
like different stages of where they're at, as you know,
actors or performers. So what was that process like for you?

Speaker 7 (01:01:20):
It was, I mean, yeah, it was tough. So I
wrote the movie for my best friend Nathaniel is the Driver,
and like I wrote it with him in mind, and
then we just sort of we did some casting workbook
and then reaching out to people through friends of friends
and then having like just people we knew around town

(01:01:41):
who seemed like they fit the vibe. So there was, yeah,
we were sort of grabbing players from all over the place.
But I found the like, the the less experienced people
who weren't actors were actually better than the ones who
were trying to be actors who but didn't have the
experience yet. And then there were the ones who like

(01:02:03):
had gotten over that hump and then were really great
actors in their own right. But there's sort of like
the people who are trying to take it too seriously
but don't have the confidence to like go all out,
I think are the hardest to work with, and the
people like I hadn't. My dad is in my movie.
He's got a handful of lines. But he was very

(01:02:23):
easy to work with because I was just like just play.
We like we just sort of ran the cameras. We
didn't ever stop, and I just sort of like fed
him lines and I love it, and his stuff comes
across like genuine because we've got over the hump and
he's not trying to be an actor. He's not trying
exactly to do anything beyond just be like on camera
and once he's comfortable.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
He was comfortable in when I was on Rebel without
a crew. That's what Robert Rodriguez said. I was super
nervous because Daniel, who's my best friend that I wrote
the lead character for, he had never acted before besides
in my stuff, Like, he's not an actor, and we
thought we were going to get like random, you know,
theater kids and college kids to come be in our movie.

(01:03:08):
Like we didn't know that they were going to have
us actually cast from an actual casting talent pool, and
so all of a sudden, Daniel was like acting with
actual talent, and he was so incredibly nervous. But when
I when I asked Robert about it, he said the
same thing. He's like, you know what the best part
is is Daniel isn't an actor. He's mouldable. You can
do anything you want with him and he'll listen because

(01:03:28):
he's your friend. So just like roll with that.

Speaker 7 (01:03:33):
One hundred percent. Yeah, And Mike.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
Was working with your was working with your friend an
enjoyable experience. Did you guys have a good bond because
of the fact that you know each other. Was it
like bond is in like not your friendship, but the
actual more professional element that one.

Speaker 7 (01:03:50):
Hundred percent It was like, Yeah, I I went into
it a little bit nervous because I didn't I've done
short films with him, but never anything as intense is this,
Like he's in basically every single frame of the film.
So it was you know, fourteen days of us sitting
side by side in this car for you know, ten
hours a day. So I was nervous about like it

(01:04:12):
fucking up our friendship, but no, it brought us together,
and I think we trusted each other off the bat,
and it was very easy to like give each other
ideas and give each other notes and have him push
back on me and me push back on him because
we knew each other and like we weren't going to
take anything personally.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
Some of the best friends in my life I have
met through filmmaking. Low budget filmmaking especially has tied me
to people through a way that are in a way
that no other sort of art form of, no other projects,

(01:04:53):
no other elements of life have made me feel the
connections in the same way. And I really can't think
all of the people who have been involved in my
movies enough because they've become my best friends. I cannot
even start to describe how important these people are in
my life. And when I started to be able to
bring people who are already my friends in my life,

(01:05:15):
you know, Daniel has been Daniel Dagnan has been a
part of these movies since the beginning. We've been friends
since we are children. But being able to create this
art together, watch these movies on the screen after they're finished,
and continue to talk about them and have these stories
from the process of making the movies that I mean,
there's nothing better than that. And as long as you
aren't taking it personally, and as long as you understand

(01:05:38):
that these projects are fun, they are meant to be fun.
And yeah, they're so challenging, they're so hard, and they'll
break your heart, They'll they'll build you up and break
you down over and over again. But as long as
you understand that this is this is fun art that
we're making together, there is no better experience in your life.

Speaker 6 (01:06:00):
That is it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
For today's episode of Low Budget Rebels, make sure to
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(01:06:22):
the year, or you can give more. Whatever you can
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for filmmakers who should be on the show, or just
want to say something, head on over to speakpipe dot

(01:06:43):
com slash Low Budget Rebels and leave your audio message,
hoping to play those on the air. If you have
tips and tricks about anything, I keep you saying tips
and tricks. I don't know that's my go to thing
on this episode, but if you have anything you'd like
to say, speakpipe dot com slash Lowbud Rebels. Thank you
so much for tuning in everyone, and huge thanks to

(01:07:04):
my guests Dylan Brown, Alex Qualm, Michael Perra, and Spooky
Madison for sharing their insights on the art of directing
actors from finding the right balance between guidance and freedom
to building trust and collaboration on set. Hopefully you are

(01:07:24):
walking away from this episode with some new techniques, some inspiration,
and maybe even a few stories to help you on
your next project. If you enjoyed the conversation, make sure
to subscribe, share the show with your fellow filmmakers, and
check out the films and the work of today's guests.

(01:07:44):
It will be in the description. But go check out
all of the movies that we talked about and follow
them and keep up to date on what they're doing
until next time. Keep creating, keep experimenting, keep making those
weird little movies, keep kicking ass, and as all, always
stay rebellious.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Low Budget Rebels is brought to you by the indie
film Hustle Network, recorded at Flush Studios.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
Headquarters in tropical Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Produced by the film Daddy Josh Stifter, Babba Baboo