November 26, 2025 • 46 mins
NASA has begun the next phase of preparations to send a crewed mission around the Moon next year. NASA has made a pivot to Starliner. Perseverance has discovered a meteorite on Mars. A nearby super-Earth could be a good place to look for life. Were Earth and Theia once neighbors?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning. The following podcast contains an entertaining look at astronomy, physics,
and space news throughout the known universe. Listeners have been
known to learn about astronomical phenomenon, the scientific method, and
expand to vocabulary to include terms like quasar asterism and uranus. Listen,
that's your own risk. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
When made of stars, made them stars, madies. When made
of stars, you could be from high they would new Mexicomas.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Where are.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Stars?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
When we are made of stars? I'm Wes Carol, joined
(01:03):
by my good friend, doctor Shawn Cruz and executive director
of Columbus State University's Coca Cola Space Science Center. Hey, Sean,
good morning.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
We's good to be here today.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
So we're doing the show on a Wednesday because it's
Thanksgiving week and you know we're going to be eating tomorrow.
I mean, that's what I'm planning to do.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
All I'll be there with you, well not there with you,
but they're figuratively with you.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yes, you're elsewhere, which I'm happy that you're enjoying time
with family for your Thanksgiving. So that's that's what it's about, right,
being thankful and appreciating each other and being thankful, for
the bounty that we can put together on Thursdays, or
even if it's just a frozen dinner that has turkey
in it, some people do that and being thankful for
(01:46):
that too, right.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Indeed, we're a blessed group of people. We're blessed to
get to do this podcast and do what we do.
And you know, I'm thankful for the show. I'm thankful
for our listeners, and thankful for a good many other things. Well, yes,
well said, celebrating Thanksgiving in the true sense of the word.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Let's start our show this week with Moon Mission talk,
because we've been talking about this. We went to Kennedy
Space Center to be there for a key moment in
this Moon mission as they're now a step closer to
(02:26):
this thing happening next year, early next year. And it's
so crazy to think we're knocking on the door of
December and in February. I mean, as of right now February,
we're you know, sending astronauts around the Moon, and that
hasn't happened in a really long time. So crazy to
(02:47):
think we're that close.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Could be as early as February, could be as late
as April. This is one of those things where it's
a little bit hard to tie NASA down. But their
official window of time begins in February and goes through
April of twenty twenty six, and so that's their launch
(03:12):
window for launching this vehicle to the Moon with astronauts
on board. As Wes said, for the first time since
the nineteen seventies. You know, we're talking about being thankful.
I'm thankful for NASA. I know that sounds weird, but
that's okay, I'll take it. I'm thankful that I live.
I'm thankful I live in a time in human history
that we have the National Aeronautics in Space Administration. In
(03:36):
other words, I'm thankful that I live in a time
in history where we are taking such great adventures to
outer space. We have the technological capability to do so,
and we have the vision and the sense of exploration
and curiosity that we want to go out and explore
(03:57):
places off the surface of the Earth. So that's what
this is all about. So twenty twenty six is coming
up and NASA is moving forward with its next launch
of human beings around the Moon. But this is the
first launch since the nineteen seventies, and it's going to be.
It's called Artemus too. It's going to be taking a
crude vehicle around the backside of the Moon, so they
(04:19):
can test out the spacecraft called the Orion Capsule. They
can test out all of the lunar exploration suits, the
space suits for this mission, they can test out the
life support systems, and actually they can test out that
new Moon rocket itself called the Space Launch System, so
to be the first time that that SLS rocket has
(04:40):
actually carried human beings. So all of these are very
important tests that are taking place. And again, the launch
window maybe as early as February. West and I are
both hoping it's February. We're going to try to actually
get down there and be a part of that and
you know, bring it to this podcast obviously when we
do that. So we're really looking forward to that. Right now,
(05:01):
the testing is going to be occurring not on the
launch pad, which a lot of pre launch tests do
occur on the launch pad. This particular set of tests
is going to be occurring inside the Vehicle assembly building.
We know it as the VAB WES and I know
it as a really lovely place to get a view
from the roof. It's pretty cool stuff we.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Do.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Indeed, we got a very awesome behind the scenes tour
one time where we actually got to go stand on
the roof of the VAB. It is a great time anyway.
So teams are working right now. They've already completed a
critical communications systems test. That means they're just testing all
the communications between the SLS itself, the Orion spacecraft, and
(05:50):
all of the ground systems necessary during the test, which
are into end testing with the near space network and
the deep space network, giant radio dishes that wants the
vehicle is heading out for the Moon. We need these
giant radio dishes to be able to communicate with the vehicle.
So all of that's already done, it just hasn't been
done with astronauts, right. So the teams are just checking
(06:11):
the radio and they're getting on the links so to speak,
and they're making sure all those links are working, yes,
between the rocket systems, but also between the communication systems
necessary for the astronaut. So quote from Sean Duffy, the
acting NASA administrator, and pause, we still don't have an
answer about the next NASA administrator. So there's no news
(06:35):
about Jared Isagman. So if you heard last week's show
where we talked a lot about Jared Isaac. Just nothing
really has happened since then. Okay, so we still have
an acting NASA Administrator, Sean Duffy, he said these words,
NASA remains focused on getting ready for safely to fly
four astronauts around the Moon and back. Our mission will
lay the groundwork for future missions to the lunar surface
(06:59):
and to Mars. Unquote Acting NASA Administrator Sean Duffy. So
the point is there are very important pieces of the
puzzle that must be assembled before we are confident in
launching our NASA astronauts to the Moon. And that's what's
happening right now. So anyway, so this is good stuff. Friends.
We are living in a time where we're returning to
(07:22):
what we would consider planetary exploration. You leave low Worth orbit,
you go to another location in the Solar System. Yes,
this one happens to be the Moon in orbit around
the Earth, but it is preparing us to go to Mars.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Big steps have to be taken to get us one,
you know, phase closer to where this. Eventually we're going
to have boots on the ground again on the Moon,
and then eventually Mars. This is all part of those
steps that are taking place, and I just quickly want
to mention this, and again we don't really dive into politics.
Sometimes politics is part of the story, and you know,
(08:02):
read into this whatever you want. You mentioned, you know,
Sean Duffy and he, you know, last week or in
the last couple of weeks, we've talked about the fact
that the priority is to move these things forward safely.
That's always the priority. But to move these things forward
at a at a rate that will get boots on
the ground on the moon during this current president's second term.
(08:26):
That's the intention. That's the goal. And you know, so
if you think, wow, it seems like it's it's starting
to happen fast after so long of it taking forever,
there's a reason for it. And this administration wants to
be a part of this next phase.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, And you know, some might suggest those goals are
lofty because the timeframe is so short, and there's a
balance between achieving lofty goals quickly and maintaining safety. And
(09:02):
I'm not saying that they are directly in an inverse relationship. However,
when for political reasons, we begin to accelerate these programs.
I do believe that a very needed increase in safety
awareness or maybe but just continued diligence, that's a better
(09:24):
way to say it. Continued diligence. In the utmost safety
for these crews is really really important because I personally
worry about safety of the astronauts. I know that the
SLS program, the ARTEMS program, has seemed to chug along
(09:45):
at a little bit of a slow pace compared to say, oh,
the Apollo program. And there are many important points to
understand about the Apollo program and the global climate at
the time, in terms of geopolitical challenges that existed at
that time. I just in living through this time. I'm
(10:07):
excited about getting to the Moon. I want us to
go there quickly. I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas.
I want it to come soon. At the same time,
the adult part of me just says, however, we really
need to keep our eyes on the safety of our
astronauts and not compromise that with schedules that are too accelerated.
So for lack of a you know, a better way
(10:30):
to explain it. And again, I don't want to dive
into any politics either. I try to be kind of
politic agnostic on this whole thing. I love space. I
want to see people go to space. I just want
them to be safe when they're doing it.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah, and everybody that we've talked to when we were down,
you know, at Kennedy, and it was everybody had the
same vision, the same intentions, the same goals. Safety was
obviously always their top priority and things just when there's
a new rocket being launched or a new method of
(11:04):
getting people off planet, you have to be extra careful
when there are going to be people on board, and
obviously that's the top of mind.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
For all of us.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Let's transition over because there's been a pivot on behalf
of NASA. This isn't directly related directly immediately or is it.
It's eventually a good segue though it does. I mean,
it certainly could be indications of things to come. But yeah,
(11:35):
there's been a bit of a change with NASA doing
things with Boeing speaking of safety, Yeah, that's what I
was trying to say without saying it, I know.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
But I said it because that's who I am, So
speaking of safety Boeing. We could just end it there. Okay, now,
let's not pick on Boeing. Boeing's a very good commercial
space company, and they've been working very hard on a
vehicle called star Liner. And yes, Starliner to this point
has had somewhat of a checkered past. Let's remember that
(12:07):
a commercial crew program from NASA was the funding event
that led to both Boeing and SpaceX developing vehicles that
could potentially carry American astronauts to the International Space Station
and then eventually other international astronauts to the space station.
Boeing was awarded nearly twice the amount of money that
(12:30):
SpaceX was. I feel it just really important to say
that at times.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
It is important to go there.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Every now so so far Starliner has delivered one crew
successfully to the International Space Station. They had a few
problems along the way in their Starliner vehicle, and that
the thrusters were malfunctioning as they were trying to dock
with the International Space Station. There were such problems with
(12:58):
those thrusters that they decided to abandon that vehicle in
terms of carrying astronauts, and those astronauts became the stranded
astronauts that West and I have spent so much time
talking about, No, not us that the United States news media, Well,
the international news media spent so much time talking about
stranded astronauts aboard the International Space Station. Well one of
(13:18):
them was actually the commander of the Space Station at
the time. But okay, they were just like imprisoned astronauts
on board ISS for a while there. They came home
on a SpaceX Dragon.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Friends, as they speaking of eating frozen turkey dinners, I
mean yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I mean they're having to eat freeze dried food. They
don't have the benefit of gravity when using the toilet.
These are terrible conditions. How oh wait, that's true for
all astronauts. Okay, never mind anyway, So the point is
that Starliner has yet to fly a single crew to
the International Space Station and bring them back to the
(13:54):
ground safely, whereas SpaceX Dragon has done it with twelve
NASA Cruz plus a demo crew. So so SpaceX is
leading that fight. Anyway, they're leading in that contest. But
now NASA has come out and said, well, we're going
(14:16):
to change the contract with Boeing, and in fact, the
next flight, which would have been scheduled for astronauts once
all the repairs and corrections were made, NASA said NOE.
Part of that change in the contract is going to
be that a mission called star Liner one. Wait, is
this the first mission of star Liner. No, it's flown
(14:38):
several is flown two less than successful unpiloted vehicles, and
then it flew the one mission. It was a demo mission,
so that's why it didn't get the star Liner one tag.
So if this next mission will be called Starliner one
and it will be carrying exactly zero human beings, it's
going to be a cargo mission. We're gonna let them
(15:01):
fly twinkies, says NASA or something to that effect, twinkies
and toilet paper up to the International Space Station and
not people. So the original contract order to Boeing and
SpaceX called for each to fly uncrewed demonstration flights to ISS,
followed by crewde demo missions, and then conduct six regular
(15:23):
crew rotation missions. Well, they are now changing the Boeing
component of that contract to some unspecified number of human missions,
but at least one more cargo sort of demonstration flight.
It's not really a demonstration flight if it's carrying cargo,
but okay, it's part of their contract now and it's
(15:46):
hopefully hopefully everything works out well with their thrusters and
with the rest of their components and Starlineer one will
be a nominal flight. If that's true, according to the
article I read on space flight now dot com, that
will open the door for Starliner two to potentially become
Boeing's first operational mission to the space station with a
(16:09):
crew on board. There you go. So, so yeah, that's
just the space is hard, engineering is difficult. It seems
to be that Boeing is a bit behind. But they
now have a new path forward with a modified contract
with NASA. So there's the news.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
We talk about this from time to time. It shows
how we are in this age with private space companies
involved and part of the mix, and it just gives
more options, gives more opportunity, gives more chance to push
things forward. We're not only now in a space race
with China, but we're also in a situation where you
(16:51):
have these companies competing trying to work on, you know,
putting the best product forward. Again, back to safety, we
were just talking about all all of those things certainly apply.
So just having more options in the mix should in
theory create competition and cause the whole overall product to
be better.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
You know, I look back at other at the evolution
of other transportation mediums media in history, like aircraft, aviation,
or railroads or even the interstate highway system. The government
can be involved and be the lead engine of innovation
(17:35):
for a while, but ultimately what's best for the American
economy and the American people is for the government to
step aside and let these private contractors take it over
and let competition rain. That brings down prices, that raises quality,
it accelerates the development of technology necessary for these functions,
(17:58):
And right now we're seeing that playing out. Right, we're
seeing the competitive process between a couple of different commercial
space flight providers, and right now we're seeing kind of
a clear victor in that. It doesn't mean that SpaceX
is going to win everything forever. It just means at
this moment for carrying astronauts, they are certainly winning that
(18:21):
particular competition to low Earth orbit, to the International Space Station.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
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More Made of Stars Right after this, all right, let's
(20:17):
talk about uh, this New Super Earth, this possibility of it.
I'll be new. Have they just found this thing or
is this something that's been around for a while. But
it's a I guess newly identified now that they've given
it a name. But it is a possibility life, something
to search for, something to investigate, breaking news, clickbait. Science
(20:41):
finds life on another No, but it's worth you know, obviously.
This is what they do. They find something, they think, Hey,
here's a possibility. This checks some boxes, this meets some requirements.
There could be some amibas there.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
It could be. I mean, there could be.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
I know, we talk about that sometimes. And I don't
think people when they hear like, oh, possible signs of life,
they think little green men. They think, you know, starfleet,
whatever it is that they're imagining.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
They're not ringy. So I always think of the FERINGI
they must have giant ears and wrinkles on their foreheads.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
I think about the board. I mean, that's what I
think about. I think I think about all of the
horrible dangers that could be coming, and that's what I
think about. But that's just maybe a reflection on me
and how many science fiction or you know, things that
get into you know, wolves and dogs and you know,
get into each other and kill everybody on a at
(21:36):
a base in the Arctic. But you know, great movie.
I didn't I didn't rewatch that this year anyway. Or
the Predator, you know, that's another thing that's fun to
think about.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
But anyway, it's hard to beat Alien, the original, like
Alien Alien, right.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yes, as far as being terrifying.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Chasing Ridley around the you know the space vehicle, that's
just pretty. That's that's a good one.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Yeah, no, the wrong with that one. But possibility of
life could mean just you know, tiny little microorganisms or
tiny little things that could be there, or you know,
some type of you know, water creature that we can't
even imagine what it would look like, because some of
the ones that we have look really weird and we
haven't really you know, taken time to pay attention to
them yet.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So before we jump knee deep into the story, the
truth is that we as human beings, have some innate
curiosity when standing under a nighttime sky and having some
concept of the vastness of the universe, to say to
ask ourselves this question, are we one of one? Are
(22:41):
we the only place where some form of life exists
in this vast and seemingly unreachable universe in which we
find ourselves floating like a mode of dust on the
morning sky. That's a Carl Sagan right there, anyway. So
the whole idea is when we look out at other stars,
(23:05):
we are now developing the technology to tell whether those
stars have other planets around them. We've gotten quite good
at this. And as we identify these other planets, we
call those exoplanets. And as we use the technology to
find these planets, we can sometimes tell from that same
data how close those planets are to their parents star
(23:27):
and how large they are. Those two pieces of data
can then lead to some astrophysical modeling about the conditions
that must exist on that planet orbiting that distant star.
And a lot of that is just what we know
from modeling the planets in our own Solar system. How
(23:50):
close they are to the Sun, do they have atmospheres?
Are they hot, are they cold? What kind of chemistry
does that develop? So we are living in an era,
and again I'm thankful for this one more thanks one
more thanksgiving. I'm thankful that we live in this era.
I was in graduate school when the first ever planet
(24:12):
was discovered and verified around another star. So now that
we know about thousands of these things. Kind of thankful
I'm living in this era because we get to talk
about this as science and not just science fiction like speculation.
So a team from UC Irvine has identified a planet
around a nearby M dwarf type star. M dwarf is
(24:34):
an astrophysical categorization that means it's smaller than the Sun,
and the M says that it's a whole lot cooler
on its surface than the Sun. But this planet that
was discovered around this dwarf star is closer to its
parent star than we are to our own son, So
therefore it lives in a potential Goldilock zone. Not too hot,
(24:58):
not too cold. Just the planet is named GJ two
fifty one. That's the name of the star. By the way,
GJ two fifty one C, the letter C is in
kat That is a designation for the third planet to
be detected around this dwarf star. Okay, so GJ two
(25:20):
fifty one C happens to live in that Goldilock zone
and the team from UC Irvine that discovered it, we're
also able to pull enough data from their discovery to
talk a lot about the size of that star and
I'm sorry, the stars, the size of that planet around
(25:42):
that star, and figure out what the conditions would be
like on the surface of that planet. And what they've
what they've detected is a planet that's in a zone
that tells them that it's probably a rocky world that
could actually hold liquid water on its surface. Again the
(26:02):
Goldilock zone. All right, So liquid water considered the essential
for every form of life currently known. And we are
quoting a story from Space Daily dot com. By the way,
you can check out space daily dot com for more
details on the story. So that planet lies in a
relatively nearby part of the Milky Way. It's only eighteen
light years away, which means it's a little bit easier
(26:25):
to study. And so these data from the semi nearby
planet have told us that this world is more massive
than the Earth, so we categorize it as a super earth.
But it again lives inside the Goldilock zone, the potential
life zone, the potential perfect distance from its parents star
(26:46):
where liquid water can be on its surface. So Paul
Robertson from UC Irvine, who's an associate professor of physics
and astronomy, says this quote, we have found so many
exoplanets at this point that discovering a new one is
not such a big deal. What makes this especially valuable
is that its host star is close by, at just
(27:07):
about eighteen light years away. Cosmically speaking, it's practically next
door unquote. So there you go. You have a relatively
nearby to Earth in the Goldilock Zone super Earth, potentially
capable of holding water on its surface. And now we
would really like to know what would it take to
(27:30):
find out can this world host life? Well, it's suggested
that an upcoming telescope that's currently being built by the
University of California is a system called the thirty meter telescope.
Meters about three feet that's that's almost one hundred feet across.
(27:50):
The thirty meter telescope, a very large telescope is going
to be able to possibly get more data from the
surface of that world. It's going to be able to
use spectroscopy to begin analyzing the atmosphere of that distant,
not so distant exoplanet. So this is kind of like, hey,
(28:11):
this is where we're going. We need mega telescopes to
be able to point to find out more about this world.
But it's a good candidate to go and look for
possible signs of life, particularly in the chemistry of its atmosphere.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Speaking of other planets and looking for things pretty exciting
discovery on Mars.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Imagine you could just go to Mars and look for
things that just been pretty fun. Right, what are you
doing a lot? I'm walking around on Mars, I'm looking
for stuff. Maybe you've got a metal detector, you know,
like those guys at the beach. You see them with
the shorts and their socks pulled up all the way
to their knees, and they got a metal detector. They're
trying to find lost nickels that some kid fell out
(28:52):
of some kid's swimsuit or something. Who knows. Yeah, imagine
you could do that on Mars. You might find a
giant nickel iron alloyed meteorite that came from somewhere else. Well,
if you don't, if you can't get that ticket to
go to Mars, and you know, take your knee high
socks and your shorts and your metal detector. Don't worry
(29:13):
because NASA's person Vere's rover is already up there. Yeah,
and I don't know if it has its socks pulled
up to its knees. But it is certainly examining Mars
surface for treasures. It's treasure hunting on Mars, and it
spotted this weird space rock on the surface. And this
weird space rock, according to NASA, has quote sculpted high
(29:34):
standing features and quote low lying and fragmented surrounding rocks unquote,
which means it sort of stands out. It's like those
times when I was a teenager and I had a
giant ZiT on my face. It's kind of hard to
hide that. Well, this is kind of like, it's really
(29:54):
nothing like that at all. I don't know why I
even said that, but this is like a giant rock
that's just really standing out in some sort of an
obvious and possibly embarrassing way on the surface of the
planet Mars. And so when the NASA Perseverance rover was
driving around and detected this rock, they said, I don't
know if they actually said this, I'm just imagining, but
I'm paraphrasing. They said, hmmm, wouldn't that rock be interesting
(30:16):
to go take a closer look at. So they did,
and when they did, they actually used something called the
mass camera two it's mass Cam three, the mass camera
to take a closer look at this thing, and they
figured out that it really looks a lot different than
the rest of the rocks nearby. So then they drove
(30:37):
closer and they used a laser instrument known as the
supercam to actually fire laser beams at this rock so
they can make measurements of the chemistry of the rock.
And they found that nearly three foot long rock is
made of iron and nickel. So they have a one
(30:57):
meter long rock laying on the surface that looks nothing
like the surrounding area. They hit it with the lasers
and sure enough, it's iron nickel. Well what happens when
we find a giant chunk of iron nickel just laying
around in nature on Earth, Well, we don't find those
very often, and typically when we do, they make really
(31:18):
good candidates for a possible meteorite, something that came from
the disrupted interior of another protoplanet in our own Solar system,
where two giant worlds smashed together and the metal interior
of those protoplanets were shattered and thrown off into space,
and then they fall to the surfaces of other worlds
(31:38):
like on Earth, and that's why you get giant lumps
of iron and nickel alloy laying around on the surface
of the Earth. So the folks at JPL said, huh,
I wonder if this is some piece of the interior,
some large asteroid or protoplanet from the early part of
the Solar System. In other words, is this a meteor
(31:59):
that came from space landed on the surface of Mars
and is not native to the surface Right now? They
think it's likely. And because they think it's likely, they
think that rock is special. They gave it a cool name. Phipssla.
(32:19):
You can seth doctor seuss No, sounds a bit like
something from SEUs. It sounds Sussian, it does unless you're Norwegian,
and then it sounds native. Right, So this is actually
this is actually taken from an area in the Smalbard
region of Norway. Why did they name this rock Phipsosla
(32:42):
after an area in Svalbard, Norway. Well, because they had
already nicknamed that general region of Mars after another broader
region near Svalbard, Norway, So they of course picked a
different Norwegian name when they found this rock, and they
settled on Phipps. So, friends, we will be documenting the
(33:05):
further discoveries about the giant meteorite on Mars called Phipsokla
on the show, So stay tuned to future episodes of
Native Stars as the Perseverance Rover continues to investigate this
large sculptured, high standing, low flat and fragment the surrounding
rocks area on the surface of Mars called Phipsokla.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
More made of stars. Right after this, all right, we'd
(33:48):
like to talk about origin stuff for various things, especially
when it comes to close to home for us. We
transition from Mars over to THEA and object that may
have collided with the Earth, created the Moon, given us
the Moon. Do we have new information on this or
is this just a continuing research on THEA and its role.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah, I mean I think both things are true, but
there is new research. So it's interesting to segue off
the last story where you're talking about finding little fragments
of worlds that collided in the early part of the
Solar System, finding those fragments on Mars, because this story
about the formation of our own moon also involves big
(34:33):
objects in the early Solar systems smashing into each other
and throwing various fragments or materials out into the Solar
System environment. That later coagulated or formed together to form
what we see today. Okay, so here's the idea, for
many years now, the leading concept of the formation of
(34:57):
Earth's moon. We call that the moon, by the way,
because we couldn't think of a name, we just said moon.
So the Earth Moon system is unusual because there's a
ratio of planetary size to the size of the Moon
that is unusual. We are almost a double planet system.
(35:17):
The Moon is large enough that the Earth Moon system
could in fact be considered kind of a binary world
rather than a big planet and a tiny moon, which
we see in the rest of the Solar System. So
this our moon's big compared to our our parent planet,
the Earth. Okay, so how did it get that way?
How did it form? Did the Earth just capture another
(35:38):
planet it was as it was zipping by with its
gravity or were they Did they form next to each
other in place? Did they coagulate in the same orbit
and then Earth kind of just became the more dominant
gravitational body or this idea the most the most prevalent
of the most scientifically supported idea is that something hit
(35:59):
the proth in the early part of the Solar System
and formed the current Earth and the Moon that we
see today, and the object that is thought to have
done that has been given the name THEA. So THEA
was thought to be a Mars sized proto planet that
(36:21):
existed in the very very early part of our solar
system when protoplanets were first coming together, and somehow found
its way into our part of the Solar system and
collided with the then forming Earth, the proto Earth about four
and a half billion years ago. This collision turned both
objects into molten lava, and it eventually coalesced and cool
(36:45):
to form the Earth and the Moon. And again the story,
it's a great story. Check it out on Universe today
dot com. But none of that is a new idea
that's called the giant impact hypothesis, and it's been around
for quite some time. Okay. So one of the things
though that scientists have been trying to work out about
this idea for ever since we came up with a
(37:06):
notion that that's probably the leading model for how the
Moon formed is where did that THEA proto world come from?
Did it come from a deeper, more further away part
of our own solar system, or did it come from
right here next to the Earth, or did it even
come from something closer that formed closer to the Sun
(37:28):
than we are. All of those potentially hypothetical proto worlds
would have had very different chemistries. And this is where
it becomes kind of like an episode of CSI. It's
called CSI Solar System. We're investigating the crime scene. We
are looking for micro details to help us stitch together
(37:52):
the story of how our moon formed. And when we
look very carefully at the chemist of rocks on the
surface of the Earth, as well as some very important
lunar samples that came back from the Moon with the
Apollo missions, then we begin to find out some of
(38:14):
the trace chemistry of the composition of that world called
thea that existed before the giant collision with the Earth.
All right, now, I'm going to tell you my most
favorite part of the story West, which is simply this,
in twenty twenty five, we are still doing brand new
science with samples that came from our first trips to
(38:37):
the moons in the nineteen sixties and seventies. That, friends,
is a monumental tribute to the success of the Apollo missions.
So I'd like to just get your thoughts right there
before we move.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
On, Oh any sort of Like I said, whenever we
have these stories that just sort of continue on from
these successes that have taken place, it's always fascinating just
to see that progression not only of science, but also
(39:12):
of technology, also of discovery. It encompasses all of those
things that you said at the beginning when you talked
about being thankful for NASA, and.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Really seriously, I am grateful that I grew up in
a time where I got to be inspired by those
Apollo missions, but then all of the subsequent space missions
that have gone as well, and a lot of times
as a space scientist, I have people ask me. I
have people ask me questions that the answer is far
bigger than the question, right, but they ask questions like this, well,
(39:42):
how do you know that? Or how do we know that?
And it's always asked with that sort of, you know,
semi skeptical kind of tone, which I actually appreciate because
that's how science begins. Science begins with those great kinds
of questions. How do we know there was a proto
planet that ran into the Earth and formed the Moon?
(40:04):
And how do we know where it came from in
our solar system? Well, Okay, there are answers to these questions,
but it requires going into the details of the forensics,
which we don't have time to fully expose here on
this podcast. But I'm going to talk through just a
little bit of that and say, remember that this came
(40:25):
as a result of directly sampling lunar rocks from the
surface of the Moon returning them back to the Earth
in the nineteen sixties and seventies. So what this team
of scientists did is they looked at fifteen Earth rocks
and six lunar samples, and they compare them with one
(40:45):
another and also with a collection of many meteorites, and
they said, what's different between these three samples of rocks
and what's similar. And one of the things they looked
at was the ratio of iron isotopes in all of
(41:05):
these rock samples compared to each other. And in addition
to that, they compared isotopes from silica and carbon and
other very important building block materials that are chemically building
blocks for what we find here on the Earth and
(41:25):
on other planets. And they also looked at things like
chromium and molybdomon and zirconium, which are long lived elements
which could have easily survived the collision between these worlds
and have actually been part of that original protoplanet, THEA.
So you have to do a lot of chemistry, and
(41:48):
you have to do a lot of science and modeling
to figure out what your chemistry is telling you, and
then you can put all that together in a narrative
and a story, and then you release it to all
your buddies and you argue about this at scientist meetings,
and eventually it results in a publication that is what
is called peer reviewed. And this is how we know
we put all of these pieces together. So this study
(42:12):
was out of the mox Plank Institute for Solar System Research.
It examined all of the kinds of chemistries that I
just talked about, and based on the team's analysis, they
determined that THEA likely formed closer to the Sun than
our own planet. Then it came and hit our protoplanet
and formed the chemistries that we now find both on
(42:33):
the Moon and on Earth. And a quote from the
team lead, his name is Timo Hopp, the team lead
from mox Plunk Institute says, the most convincing scenario is
that most of the building blocks of Earth and THEA
originated in the inner Solar System. Earth and THEA are
likely to have been neighbors. So the supposition is that
(42:58):
even though THEA might have been lightly closer to the
Sun than we are, it was right here where the
proto Earth was, which means it was also in the
vicinity of Venus. So so imagine we call we sometimes
called Venus our twin, our sister planet. Imagine three sisters.
(43:19):
But one of them had just a slightly skewed orbit
that was a little bit more stretched out and caused
it to cross the Earth's orbit now and again, and
eventually it collided with that proto Earth. That's the story
that's now unfolding because of all this fantastic chemical analysis
being done by scientists at the Max Blunk Institute Solar
(43:41):
System Research and other science institutions around the world. So
there you go, friends, an origin story for the Moon
that has really interesting background in the early part of
the Solar System.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
All right, let's talk about holidays with Columbus State University's
Cocolas Space Science Center and talk about holiday hours and
just kind of the way things shift around just a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Yeah, I'm in favor of them.
Speaker 4 (44:08):
I'm aware that you are. Yes, yes, friends.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
We are going to be open through the first three
weeks of December and then maybe a little bit past that.
But the Space Science Center is now going to be
running a great show after the Thanksgiving holiday. If you're
listening to this podcast real time, we are closed on
Thanksgiving Day and the Friday after, so no Black Friday
Planetarium shows for us. But we will open again on
(44:36):
the Saturday after Thanksgiving, which is the twenty ninth, and
we will stay open until that week of Christmas, and
we will be showing a great show in our Amosphere
Theater for this time of year. It's called the Mystery
of the Christmas Star. We often take recordings of sky
(44:56):
events from ancient texts, or from petroglyphs, or from other
kinds of ancient writings in stone, and we try to
say it way, they were talking about something that happened
in the sky. Can we go back and piece together
the forensics of that event? Well, if you like that
sort of thing. There's a certain star that's mentioned in
(45:19):
the Book of Luke and other places in the Bible.
It's an interesting story about a star that led oracles
or wise men from the eastern part of the Middle
East to the western part of the Middle East, even
though in those ancient texts it said they saw the
object in the sky in the east. They saw it
in the east, but they decided to go west. If
(45:42):
you want to know why such a thing would have happened,
come down and check out the Mystery of the Christmas
Star planetarium show in the Atmosphere Theater at Columbus State
University's Coca Cola Space Science Center from now basically after
the Thanksgiving holiday up through the week of Christmas. You
can check out all the information for all our shows
in our times by visiting our website. Go to www
(46:04):
dot cc SSC dot org, Charlie Charlie SamSam Charlie dot
org and make sure you bring your friends and check
out the Mystery of the Christmas Star in the Atmosphere
Theater at CSU's Coca Cola Space Science Center.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Sean and I thank you for listening. We wish you
a very happy Thanksgiving and we will do this again
next weeks. Overhead Door Company of Columbus has all of
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(46:38):
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Warning. The following podcast contains an entertaining look at astronomy, physics,
and space news throughout the known universe. Listeners have been
known to learn about astronomical phenomenon, the scientific method, and
expand to vocabulary to include terms like quasar asterism and uranus. Listen,
that's your own risk. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
When made of stars, made them stars, madies. When made
of stars, you could be from high they would new Mexicomas.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Where are.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Stars?
Speaker 4 (00:43):
When we are made of stars? I'm Wes Carol, joined
(01:03):
by my good friend, doctor Shawn Cruz and executive director
of Columbus State University's Coca Cola Space Science Center. Hey, Sean,
good morning.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
We's good to be here today.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
So we're doing the show on a Wednesday because it's
Thanksgiving week and you know we're going to be eating tomorrow.
I mean, that's what I'm planning to do.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
All I'll be there with you, well not there with you,
but they're figuratively with you.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yes, you're elsewhere, which I'm happy that you're enjoying time
with family for your Thanksgiving. So that's that's what it's about, right,
being thankful and appreciating each other and being thankful, for
the bounty that we can put together on Thursdays, or
even if it's just a frozen dinner that has turkey
in it, some people do that and being thankful for
(01:46):
that too, right.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Indeed, we're a blessed group of people. We're blessed to
get to do this podcast and do what we do.
And you know, I'm thankful for the show. I'm thankful
for our listeners, and thankful for a good many other things. Well, yes,
well said, celebrating Thanksgiving in the true sense of the word.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
Let's start our show this week with Moon Mission talk,
because we've been talking about this. We went to Kennedy
Space Center to be there for a key moment in
this Moon mission as they're now a step closer to
(02:26):
this thing happening next year, early next year. And it's
so crazy to think we're knocking on the door of
December and in February. I mean, as of right now February,
we're you know, sending astronauts around the Moon, and that
hasn't happened in a really long time. So crazy to
(02:47):
think we're that close.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Could be as early as February, could be as late
as April. This is one of those things where it's
a little bit hard to tie NASA down. But their
official window of time begins in February and goes through
April of twenty twenty six, and so that's their launch
(03:12):
window for launching this vehicle to the Moon with astronauts
on board. As Wes said, for the first time since
the nineteen seventies. You know, we're talking about being thankful.
I'm thankful for NASA. I know that sounds weird, but
that's okay, I'll take it. I'm thankful that I live.
I'm thankful I live in a time in human history
that we have the National Aeronautics in Space Administration. In
(03:36):
other words, I'm thankful that I live in a time
in history where we are taking such great adventures to
outer space. We have the technological capability to do so,
and we have the vision and the sense of exploration
and curiosity that we want to go out and explore
(03:57):
places off the surface of the Earth. So that's what
this is all about. So twenty twenty six is coming
up and NASA is moving forward with its next launch
of human beings around the Moon. But this is the
first launch since the nineteen seventies, and it's going to be.
It's called Artemus too. It's going to be taking a
crude vehicle around the backside of the Moon, so they
(04:19):
can test out the spacecraft called the Orion Capsule. They
can test out all of the lunar exploration suits, the
space suits for this mission, they can test out the
life support systems, and actually they can test out that
new Moon rocket itself called the Space Launch System, so
to be the first time that that SLS rocket has
(04:40):
actually carried human beings. So all of these are very
important tests that are taking place. And again, the launch
window maybe as early as February. West and I are
both hoping it's February. We're going to try to actually
get down there and be a part of that and
you know, bring it to this podcast obviously when we
do that. So we're really looking forward to that. Right now,
(05:01):
the testing is going to be occurring not on the
launch pad, which a lot of pre launch tests do
occur on the launch pad. This particular set of tests
is going to be occurring inside the Vehicle assembly building.
We know it as the VAB WES and I know
it as a really lovely place to get a view
from the roof. It's pretty cool stuff we.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Do.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Indeed, we got a very awesome behind the scenes tour
one time where we actually got to go stand on
the roof of the VAB. It is a great time anyway.
So teams are working right now. They've already completed a
critical communications systems test. That means they're just testing all
the communications between the SLS itself, the Orion spacecraft, and
(05:50):
all of the ground systems necessary during the test, which
are into end testing with the near space network and
the deep space network, giant radio dishes that wants the
vehicle is heading out for the Moon. We need these
giant radio dishes to be able to communicate with the vehicle.
So all of that's already done, it just hasn't been
done with astronauts, right. So the teams are just checking
(06:11):
the radio and they're getting on the links so to speak,
and they're making sure all those links are working, yes,
between the rocket systems, but also between the communication systems
necessary for the astronaut. So quote from Sean Duffy, the
acting NASA administrator, and pause, we still don't have an
answer about the next NASA administrator. So there's no news
(06:35):
about Jared Isagman. So if you heard last week's show
where we talked a lot about Jared Isaac. Just nothing
really has happened since then. Okay, so we still have
an acting NASA Administrator, Sean Duffy, he said these words,
NASA remains focused on getting ready for safely to fly
four astronauts around the Moon and back. Our mission will
lay the groundwork for future missions to the lunar surface
(06:59):
and to Mars. Unquote Acting NASA Administrator Sean Duffy. So
the point is there are very important pieces of the
puzzle that must be assembled before we are confident in
launching our NASA astronauts to the Moon. And that's what's
happening right now. So anyway, so this is good stuff. Friends.
We are living in a time where we're returning to
(07:22):
what we would consider planetary exploration. You leave low Worth orbit,
you go to another location in the Solar System. Yes,
this one happens to be the Moon in orbit around
the Earth, but it is preparing us to go to Mars.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Big steps have to be taken to get us one,
you know, phase closer to where this. Eventually we're going
to have boots on the ground again on the Moon,
and then eventually Mars. This is all part of those
steps that are taking place, and I just quickly want
to mention this, and again we don't really dive into politics.
Sometimes politics is part of the story, and you know,
(08:02):
read into this whatever you want. You mentioned, you know,
Sean Duffy and he, you know, last week or in
the last couple of weeks, we've talked about the fact
that the priority is to move these things forward safely.
That's always the priority. But to move these things forward
at a at a rate that will get boots on
the ground on the moon during this current president's second term.
(08:26):
That's the intention. That's the goal. And you know, so
if you think, wow, it seems like it's it's starting
to happen fast after so long of it taking forever,
there's a reason for it. And this administration wants to
be a part of this next phase.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, And you know, some might suggest those goals are
lofty because the timeframe is so short, and there's a
balance between achieving lofty goals quickly and maintaining safety. And
(09:02):
I'm not saying that they are directly in an inverse relationship. However,
when for political reasons, we begin to accelerate these programs.
I do believe that a very needed increase in safety
awareness or maybe but just continued diligence, that's a better
(09:24):
way to say it. Continued diligence. In the utmost safety
for these crews is really really important because I personally
worry about safety of the astronauts. I know that the
SLS program, the ARTEMS program, has seemed to chug along
(09:45):
at a little bit of a slow pace compared to say, oh,
the Apollo program. And there are many important points to
understand about the Apollo program and the global climate at
the time, in terms of geopolitical challenges that existed at
that time. I just in living through this time. I'm
(10:07):
excited about getting to the Moon. I want us to
go there quickly. I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas.
I want it to come soon. At the same time,
the adult part of me just says, however, we really
need to keep our eyes on the safety of our
astronauts and not compromise that with schedules that are too accelerated.
So for lack of a you know, a better way
(10:30):
to explain it. And again, I don't want to dive
into any politics either. I try to be kind of
politic agnostic on this whole thing. I love space. I
want to see people go to space. I just want
them to be safe when they're doing it.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah, and everybody that we've talked to when we were down,
you know, at Kennedy, and it was everybody had the
same vision, the same intentions, the same goals. Safety was
obviously always their top priority and things just when there's
a new rocket being launched or a new method of
(11:04):
getting people off planet, you have to be extra careful
when there are going to be people on board, and
obviously that's the top of mind.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
For all of us.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Let's transition over because there's been a pivot on behalf
of NASA. This isn't directly related directly immediately or is it.
It's eventually a good segue though it does. I mean,
it certainly could be indications of things to come. But yeah,
(11:35):
there's been a bit of a change with NASA doing
things with Boeing speaking of safety, Yeah, that's what I
was trying to say without saying it, I know.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
But I said it because that's who I am, So
speaking of safety Boeing. We could just end it there. Okay, now,
let's not pick on Boeing. Boeing's a very good commercial
space company, and they've been working very hard on a
vehicle called star Liner. And yes, Starliner to this point
has had somewhat of a checkered past. Let's remember that
(12:07):
a commercial crew program from NASA was the funding event
that led to both Boeing and SpaceX developing vehicles that
could potentially carry American astronauts to the International Space Station
and then eventually other international astronauts to the space station.
Boeing was awarded nearly twice the amount of money that
(12:30):
SpaceX was. I feel it just really important to say
that at times.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
It is important to go there.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Every now so so far Starliner has delivered one crew
successfully to the International Space Station. They had a few
problems along the way in their Starliner vehicle, and that
the thrusters were malfunctioning as they were trying to dock
with the International Space Station. There were such problems with
(12:58):
those thrusters that they decided to abandon that vehicle in
terms of carrying astronauts, and those astronauts became the stranded
astronauts that West and I have spent so much time
talking about, No, not us that the United States news media, Well,
the international news media spent so much time talking about
stranded astronauts aboard the International Space Station. Well one of
(13:18):
them was actually the commander of the Space Station at
the time. But okay, they were just like imprisoned astronauts
on board ISS for a while there. They came home
on a SpaceX Dragon.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Friends, as they speaking of eating frozen turkey dinners, I
mean yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I mean they're having to eat freeze dried food. They
don't have the benefit of gravity when using the toilet.
These are terrible conditions. How oh wait, that's true for
all astronauts. Okay, never mind anyway, So the point is
that Starliner has yet to fly a single crew to
the International Space Station and bring them back to the
(13:54):
ground safely, whereas SpaceX Dragon has done it with twelve
NASA Cruz plus a demo crew. So so SpaceX is
leading that fight. Anyway, they're leading in that contest. But
now NASA has come out and said, well, we're going
(14:16):
to change the contract with Boeing, and in fact, the
next flight, which would have been scheduled for astronauts once
all the repairs and corrections were made, NASA said NOE.
Part of that change in the contract is going to
be that a mission called star Liner one. Wait, is
this the first mission of star Liner. No, it's flown
(14:38):
several is flown two less than successful unpiloted vehicles, and
then it flew the one mission. It was a demo mission,
so that's why it didn't get the star Liner one tag.
So if this next mission will be called Starliner one
and it will be carrying exactly zero human beings, it's
going to be a cargo mission. We're gonna let them
(15:01):
fly twinkies, says NASA or something to that effect, twinkies
and toilet paper up to the International Space Station and
not people. So the original contract order to Boeing and
SpaceX called for each to fly uncrewed demonstration flights to ISS,
followed by crewde demo missions, and then conduct six regular
(15:23):
crew rotation missions. Well, they are now changing the Boeing
component of that contract to some unspecified number of human missions,
but at least one more cargo sort of demonstration flight.
It's not really a demonstration flight if it's carrying cargo,
but okay, it's part of their contract now and it's
(15:46):
hopefully hopefully everything works out well with their thrusters and
with the rest of their components and Starlineer one will
be a nominal flight. If that's true, according to the
article I read on space flight now dot com, that
will open the door for Starliner two to potentially become
Boeing's first operational mission to the space station with a
(16:09):
crew on board. There you go. So, so yeah, that's
just the space is hard, engineering is difficult. It seems
to be that Boeing is a bit behind. But they
now have a new path forward with a modified contract
with NASA. So there's the news.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
We talk about this from time to time. It shows
how we are in this age with private space companies
involved and part of the mix, and it just gives
more options, gives more opportunity, gives more chance to push
things forward. We're not only now in a space race
with China, but we're also in a situation where you
(16:51):
have these companies competing trying to work on, you know,
putting the best product forward. Again, back to safety, we
were just talking about all all of those things certainly apply.
So just having more options in the mix should in
theory create competition and cause the whole overall product to
be better.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
You know, I look back at other at the evolution
of other transportation mediums media in history, like aircraft, aviation,
or railroads or even the interstate highway system. The government
can be involved and be the lead engine of innovation
(17:35):
for a while, but ultimately what's best for the American
economy and the American people is for the government to
step aside and let these private contractors take it over
and let competition rain. That brings down prices, that raises quality,
it accelerates the development of technology necessary for these functions,
(17:58):
And right now we're seeing that playing out. Right, we're
seeing the competitive process between a couple of different commercial
space flight providers, and right now we're seeing kind of
a clear victor in that. It doesn't mean that SpaceX
is going to win everything forever. It just means at
this moment for carrying astronauts, they are certainly winning that
(18:21):
particular competition to low Earth orbit, to the International Space Station.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
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More Made of Stars Right after this, all right, let's
(20:17):
talk about uh, this New Super Earth, this possibility of it.
I'll be new. Have they just found this thing or
is this something that's been around for a while. But
it's a I guess newly identified now that they've given
it a name. But it is a possibility life, something
to search for, something to investigate, breaking news, clickbait. Science
(20:41):
finds life on another No, but it's worth you know, obviously.
This is what they do. They find something, they think, Hey,
here's a possibility. This checks some boxes, this meets some requirements.
There could be some amibas there.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
It could be. I mean, there could be.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
I know, we talk about that sometimes. And I don't
think people when they hear like, oh, possible signs of life,
they think little green men. They think, you know, starfleet,
whatever it is that they're imagining.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
They're not ringy. So I always think of the FERINGI
they must have giant ears and wrinkles on their foreheads.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
I think about the board. I mean, that's what I
think about. I think I think about all of the
horrible dangers that could be coming, and that's what I
think about. But that's just maybe a reflection on me
and how many science fiction or you know, things that
get into you know, wolves and dogs and you know,
get into each other and kill everybody on a at
(21:36):
a base in the Arctic. But you know, great movie.
I didn't I didn't rewatch that this year anyway. Or
the Predator, you know, that's another thing that's fun to
think about.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
But anyway, it's hard to beat Alien, the original, like
Alien Alien, right.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yes, as far as being terrifying.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Chasing Ridley around the you know the space vehicle, that's
just pretty. That's that's a good one.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
Yeah, no, the wrong with that one. But possibility of
life could mean just you know, tiny little microorganisms or
tiny little things that could be there, or you know,
some type of you know, water creature that we can't
even imagine what it would look like, because some of
the ones that we have look really weird and we
haven't really you know, taken time to pay attention to
them yet.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So before we jump knee deep into the story, the
truth is that we as human beings, have some innate
curiosity when standing under a nighttime sky and having some
concept of the vastness of the universe, to say to
ask ourselves this question, are we one of one? Are
(22:41):
we the only place where some form of life exists
in this vast and seemingly unreachable universe in which we
find ourselves floating like a mode of dust on the
morning sky. That's a Carl Sagan right there, anyway. So
the whole idea is when we look out at other stars,
(23:05):
we are now developing the technology to tell whether those
stars have other planets around them. We've gotten quite good
at this. And as we identify these other planets, we
call those exoplanets. And as we use the technology to
find these planets, we can sometimes tell from that same
data how close those planets are to their parents star
(23:27):
and how large they are. Those two pieces of data
can then lead to some astrophysical modeling about the conditions
that must exist on that planet orbiting that distant star.
And a lot of that is just what we know
from modeling the planets in our own Solar system. How
(23:50):
close they are to the Sun, do they have atmospheres?
Are they hot, are they cold? What kind of chemistry
does that develop? So we are living in an era,
and again I'm thankful for this one more thanks one
more thanksgiving. I'm thankful that we live in this era.
I was in graduate school when the first ever planet
(24:12):
was discovered and verified around another star. So now that
we know about thousands of these things. Kind of thankful
I'm living in this era because we get to talk
about this as science and not just science fiction like speculation.
So a team from UC Irvine has identified a planet
around a nearby M dwarf type star. M dwarf is
(24:34):
an astrophysical categorization that means it's smaller than the Sun,
and the M says that it's a whole lot cooler
on its surface than the Sun. But this planet that
was discovered around this dwarf star is closer to its
parent star than we are to our own son, So
therefore it lives in a potential Goldilock zone. Not too hot,
(24:58):
not too cold. Just the planet is named GJ two
fifty one. That's the name of the star. By the way,
GJ two fifty one C, the letter C is in
kat That is a designation for the third planet to
be detected around this dwarf star. Okay, so GJ two
(25:20):
fifty one C happens to live in that Goldilock zone
and the team from UC Irvine that discovered it, we're
also able to pull enough data from their discovery to
talk a lot about the size of that star and
I'm sorry, the stars, the size of that planet around
(25:42):
that star, and figure out what the conditions would be
like on the surface of that planet. And what they've
what they've detected is a planet that's in a zone
that tells them that it's probably a rocky world that
could actually hold liquid water on its surface. Again the
(26:02):
Goldilock zone. All right, So liquid water considered the essential
for every form of life currently known. And we are
quoting a story from Space Daily dot com. By the way,
you can check out space daily dot com for more
details on the story. So that planet lies in a
relatively nearby part of the Milky Way. It's only eighteen
light years away, which means it's a little bit easier
(26:25):
to study. And so these data from the semi nearby
planet have told us that this world is more massive
than the Earth, so we categorize it as a super earth.
But it again lives inside the Goldilock zone, the potential
life zone, the potential perfect distance from its parents star
(26:46):
where liquid water can be on its surface. So Paul
Robertson from UC Irvine, who's an associate professor of physics
and astronomy, says this quote, we have found so many
exoplanets at this point that discovering a new one is
not such a big deal. What makes this especially valuable
is that its host star is close by, at just
(27:07):
about eighteen light years away. Cosmically speaking, it's practically next
door unquote. So there you go. You have a relatively
nearby to Earth in the Goldilock Zone super Earth, potentially
capable of holding water on its surface. And now we
would really like to know what would it take to
(27:30):
find out can this world host life? Well, it's suggested
that an upcoming telescope that's currently being built by the
University of California is a system called the thirty meter telescope.
Meters about three feet that's that's almost one hundred feet across.
(27:50):
The thirty meter telescope, a very large telescope is going
to be able to possibly get more data from the
surface of that world. It's going to be able to
use spectroscopy to begin analyzing the atmosphere of that distant,
not so distant exoplanet. So this is kind of like, hey,
(28:11):
this is where we're going. We need mega telescopes to
be able to point to find out more about this world.
But it's a good candidate to go and look for
possible signs of life, particularly in the chemistry of its atmosphere.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Speaking of other planets and looking for things pretty exciting
discovery on Mars.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
Imagine you could just go to Mars and look for
things that just been pretty fun. Right, what are you
doing a lot? I'm walking around on Mars, I'm looking
for stuff. Maybe you've got a metal detector, you know,
like those guys at the beach. You see them with
the shorts and their socks pulled up all the way
to their knees, and they got a metal detector. They're
trying to find lost nickels that some kid fell out
(28:52):
of some kid's swimsuit or something. Who knows. Yeah, imagine
you could do that on Mars. You might find a
giant nickel iron alloyed meteorite that came from somewhere else. Well,
if you don't, if you can't get that ticket to
go to Mars, and you know, take your knee high
socks and your shorts and your metal detector. Don't worry
(29:13):
because NASA's person Vere's rover is already up there. Yeah,
and I don't know if it has its socks pulled
up to its knees. But it is certainly examining Mars
surface for treasures. It's treasure hunting on Mars, and it
spotted this weird space rock on the surface. And this
weird space rock, according to NASA, has quote sculpted high
(29:34):
standing features and quote low lying and fragmented surrounding rocks unquote,
which means it sort of stands out. It's like those
times when I was a teenager and I had a
giant ZiT on my face. It's kind of hard to
hide that. Well, this is kind of like, it's really
(29:54):
nothing like that at all. I don't know why I
even said that, but this is like a giant rock
that's just really standing out in some sort of an
obvious and possibly embarrassing way on the surface of the
planet Mars. And so when the NASA Perseverance rover was
driving around and detected this rock, they said, I don't
know if they actually said this, I'm just imagining, but
I'm paraphrasing. They said, hmmm, wouldn't that rock be interesting
(30:16):
to go take a closer look at. So they did,
and when they did, they actually used something called the
mass camera two it's mass Cam three, the mass camera
to take a closer look at this thing, and they
figured out that it really looks a lot different than
the rest of the rocks nearby. So then they drove
(30:37):
closer and they used a laser instrument known as the
supercam to actually fire laser beams at this rock so
they can make measurements of the chemistry of the rock.
And they found that nearly three foot long rock is
made of iron and nickel. So they have a one
(30:57):
meter long rock laying on the surface that looks nothing
like the surrounding area. They hit it with the lasers
and sure enough, it's iron nickel. Well what happens when
we find a giant chunk of iron nickel just laying
around in nature on Earth, Well, we don't find those
very often, and typically when we do, they make really
(31:18):
good candidates for a possible meteorite, something that came from
the disrupted interior of another protoplanet in our own Solar system,
where two giant worlds smashed together and the metal interior
of those protoplanets were shattered and thrown off into space,
and then they fall to the surfaces of other worlds
(31:38):
like on Earth, and that's why you get giant lumps
of iron and nickel alloy laying around on the surface
of the Earth. So the folks at JPL said, huh,
I wonder if this is some piece of the interior,
some large asteroid or protoplanet from the early part of
the Solar System. In other words, is this a meteor
(31:59):
that came from space landed on the surface of Mars
and is not native to the surface Right now? They
think it's likely. And because they think it's likely, they
think that rock is special. They gave it a cool name. Phipssla.
(32:19):
You can seth doctor seuss No, sounds a bit like
something from SEUs. It sounds Sussian, it does unless you're Norwegian,
and then it sounds native. Right, So this is actually
this is actually taken from an area in the Smalbard
region of Norway. Why did they name this rock Phipsosla
(32:42):
after an area in Svalbard, Norway. Well, because they had
already nicknamed that general region of Mars after another broader
region near Svalbard, Norway, So they of course picked a
different Norwegian name when they found this rock, and they
settled on Phipps. So, friends, we will be documenting the
(33:05):
further discoveries about the giant meteorite on Mars called Phipsokla
on the show, So stay tuned to future episodes of
Native Stars as the Perseverance Rover continues to investigate this
large sculptured, high standing, low flat and fragment the surrounding
rocks area on the surface of Mars called Phipsokla.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
More made of stars. Right after this, all right, we'd
(33:48):
like to talk about origin stuff for various things, especially
when it comes to close to home for us. We
transition from Mars over to THEA and object that may
have collided with the Earth, created the Moon, given us
the Moon. Do we have new information on this or
is this just a continuing research on THEA and its role.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah, I mean I think both things are true, but
there is new research. So it's interesting to segue off
the last story where you're talking about finding little fragments
of worlds that collided in the early part of the
Solar System, finding those fragments on Mars, because this story
about the formation of our own moon also involves big
(34:33):
objects in the early Solar systems smashing into each other
and throwing various fragments or materials out into the Solar
System environment. That later coagulated or formed together to form
what we see today. Okay, so here's the idea, for
many years now, the leading concept of the formation of
(34:57):
Earth's moon. We call that the moon, by the way,
because we couldn't think of a name, we just said moon.
So the Earth Moon system is unusual because there's a
ratio of planetary size to the size of the Moon
that is unusual. We are almost a double planet system.
(35:17):
The Moon is large enough that the Earth Moon system
could in fact be considered kind of a binary world
rather than a big planet and a tiny moon, which
we see in the rest of the Solar System. So
this our moon's big compared to our our parent planet,
the Earth. Okay, so how did it get that way?
How did it form? Did the Earth just capture another
(35:38):
planet it was as it was zipping by with its
gravity or were they Did they form next to each
other in place? Did they coagulate in the same orbit
and then Earth kind of just became the more dominant
gravitational body or this idea the most the most prevalent
of the most scientifically supported idea is that something hit
(35:59):
the proth in the early part of the Solar System
and formed the current Earth and the Moon that we
see today, and the object that is thought to have
done that has been given the name THEA. So THEA
was thought to be a Mars sized proto planet that
(36:21):
existed in the very very early part of our solar
system when protoplanets were first coming together, and somehow found
its way into our part of the Solar system and
collided with the then forming Earth, the proto Earth about four
and a half billion years ago. This collision turned both
objects into molten lava, and it eventually coalesced and cool
(36:45):
to form the Earth and the Moon. And again the story,
it's a great story. Check it out on Universe today
dot com. But none of that is a new idea
that's called the giant impact hypothesis, and it's been around
for quite some time. Okay. So one of the things
though that scientists have been trying to work out about
this idea for ever since we came up with a
(37:06):
notion that that's probably the leading model for how the
Moon formed is where did that THEA proto world come from?
Did it come from a deeper, more further away part
of our own solar system, or did it come from
right here next to the Earth, or did it even
come from something closer that formed closer to the Sun
(37:28):
than we are. All of those potentially hypothetical proto worlds
would have had very different chemistries. And this is where
it becomes kind of like an episode of CSI. It's
called CSI Solar System. We're investigating the crime scene. We
are looking for micro details to help us stitch together
(37:52):
the story of how our moon formed. And when we
look very carefully at the chemist of rocks on the
surface of the Earth, as well as some very important
lunar samples that came back from the Moon with the
Apollo missions, then we begin to find out some of
(38:14):
the trace chemistry of the composition of that world called
thea that existed before the giant collision with the Earth.
All right, now, I'm going to tell you my most
favorite part of the story West, which is simply this,
in twenty twenty five, we are still doing brand new
science with samples that came from our first trips to
(38:37):
the moons in the nineteen sixties and seventies. That, friends,
is a monumental tribute to the success of the Apollo missions.
So I'd like to just get your thoughts right there
before we move.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
On, Oh any sort of Like I said, whenever we
have these stories that just sort of continue on from
these successes that have taken place, it's always fascinating just
to see that progression not only of science, but also
(39:12):
of technology, also of discovery. It encompasses all of those
things that you said at the beginning when you talked
about being thankful for NASA, and.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Really seriously, I am grateful that I grew up in
a time where I got to be inspired by those
Apollo missions, but then all of the subsequent space missions
that have gone as well, and a lot of times
as a space scientist, I have people ask me. I
have people ask me questions that the answer is far
bigger than the question, right, but they ask questions like this, well,
(39:42):
how do you know that? Or how do we know that?
And it's always asked with that sort of, you know,
semi skeptical kind of tone, which I actually appreciate because
that's how science begins. Science begins with those great kinds
of questions. How do we know there was a proto
planet that ran into the Earth and formed the Moon?
(40:04):
And how do we know where it came from in
our solar system? Well, Okay, there are answers to these questions,
but it requires going into the details of the forensics,
which we don't have time to fully expose here on
this podcast. But I'm going to talk through just a
little bit of that and say, remember that this came
(40:25):
as a result of directly sampling lunar rocks from the
surface of the Moon returning them back to the Earth
in the nineteen sixties and seventies. So what this team
of scientists did is they looked at fifteen Earth rocks
and six lunar samples, and they compare them with one
(40:45):
another and also with a collection of many meteorites, and
they said, what's different between these three samples of rocks
and what's similar. And one of the things they looked
at was the ratio of iron isotopes in all of
(41:05):
these rock samples compared to each other. And in addition
to that, they compared isotopes from silica and carbon and
other very important building block materials that are chemically building
blocks for what we find here on the Earth and
(41:25):
on other planets. And they also looked at things like
chromium and molybdomon and zirconium, which are long lived elements
which could have easily survived the collision between these worlds
and have actually been part of that original protoplanet, THEA.
So you have to do a lot of chemistry, and
(41:48):
you have to do a lot of science and modeling
to figure out what your chemistry is telling you, and
then you can put all that together in a narrative
and a story, and then you release it to all
your buddies and you argue about this at scientist meetings,
and eventually it results in a publication that is what
is called peer reviewed. And this is how we know
we put all of these pieces together. So this study
(42:12):
was out of the mox Plank Institute for Solar System Research.
It examined all of the kinds of chemistries that I
just talked about, and based on the team's analysis, they
determined that THEA likely formed closer to the Sun than
our own planet. Then it came and hit our protoplanet
and formed the chemistries that we now find both on
(42:33):
the Moon and on Earth. And a quote from the
team lead, his name is Timo Hopp, the team lead
from mox Plunk Institute says, the most convincing scenario is
that most of the building blocks of Earth and THEA
originated in the inner Solar System. Earth and THEA are
likely to have been neighbors. So the supposition is that
(42:58):
even though THEA might have been lightly closer to the
Sun than we are, it was right here where the
proto Earth was, which means it was also in the
vicinity of Venus. So so imagine we call we sometimes
called Venus our twin, our sister planet. Imagine three sisters.
(43:19):
But one of them had just a slightly skewed orbit
that was a little bit more stretched out and caused
it to cross the Earth's orbit now and again, and
eventually it collided with that proto Earth. That's the story
that's now unfolding because of all this fantastic chemical analysis
being done by scientists at the Max Blunk Institute Solar
(43:41):
System Research and other science institutions around the world. So
there you go, friends, an origin story for the Moon
that has really interesting background in the early part of
the Solar System.
Speaker 4 (43:55):
All right, let's talk about holidays with Columbus State University's
Cocolas Space Science Center and talk about holiday hours and
just kind of the way things shift around just a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Yeah, I'm in favor of them.
Speaker 4 (44:08):
I'm aware that you are. Yes, yes, friends.
Speaker 3 (44:13):
We are going to be open through the first three
weeks of December and then maybe a little bit past that.
But the Space Science Center is now going to be
running a great show after the Thanksgiving holiday. If you're
listening to this podcast real time, we are closed on
Thanksgiving Day and the Friday after, so no Black Friday
Planetarium shows for us. But we will open again on
(44:36):
the Saturday after Thanksgiving, which is the twenty ninth, and
we will stay open until that week of Christmas, and
we will be showing a great show in our Amosphere
Theater for this time of year. It's called the Mystery
of the Christmas Star. We often take recordings of sky
(44:56):
events from ancient texts, or from petroglyphs, or from other
kinds of ancient writings in stone, and we try to
say it way, they were talking about something that happened
in the sky. Can we go back and piece together
the forensics of that event? Well, if you like that
sort of thing. There's a certain star that's mentioned in
(45:19):
the Book of Luke and other places in the Bible.
It's an interesting story about a star that led oracles
or wise men from the eastern part of the Middle
East to the western part of the Middle East, even
though in those ancient texts it said they saw the
object in the sky in the east. They saw it
in the east, but they decided to go west. If
(45:42):
you want to know why such a thing would have happened,
come down and check out the Mystery of the Christmas
Star planetarium show in the Atmosphere Theater at Columbus State
University's Coca Cola Space Science Center from now basically after
the Thanksgiving holiday up through the week of Christmas. You
can check out all the information for all our shows
in our times by visiting our website. Go to www
(46:04):
dot cc SSC dot org, Charlie Charlie SamSam Charlie dot
org and make sure you bring your friends and check
out the Mystery of the Christmas Star in the Atmosphere
Theater at CSU's Coca Cola Space Science Center.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
Sean and I thank you for listening. We wish you
a very happy Thanksgiving and we will do this again
next weeks. Overhead Door Company of Columbus has all of
your garage door needs covered, residential and commercial service and repairs.
(46:38):
If you need a new garage door, or you're just
looking to upgrade or repair your current door Overhead Door
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