June 29, 2025 • 39 mins
After 300 episodes, Medic2Medic took a pause. But sometimes, the mic calls you back—and this one was worth it.
Episode 301: I’m joined by my former colleague Jeffrey S. Hammerstein, paramedic and author of the new memoir Hi, I’m a Paramedic. We talk first calls, fear, vulnerability, and what it really means to “belong” in EMS.
It’s raw, real, and a reminder of why we do what we do.
Whether you're a field medic, EMS leader, or fan of behind-the-scenes public safety stories, this one brings heart, history, and perspective.
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/special-edition-of-medic2medic-podcast-a-conversation-with-jeff-hammerstein--66797849
Medic2Medic is back, bringing authentic voices, untold stories, and the human side of Emergency Medical Services and beyond.
Episode 301: I’m joined by my former colleague Jeffrey S. Hammerstein, paramedic and author of the new memoir Hi, I’m a Paramedic. We talk first calls, fear, vulnerability, and what it really means to “belong” in EMS.
It’s raw, real, and a reminder of why we do what we do.
Whether you're a field medic, EMS leader, or fan of behind-the-scenes public safety stories, this one brings heart, history, and perspective.
https://www.spreaker.com/episode/special-edition-of-medic2medic-podcast-a-conversation-with-jeff-hammerstein--66797849
Medic2Medic is back, bringing authentic voices, untold stories, and the human side of Emergency Medical Services and beyond.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
The attention all listeners on this frequency stand by for
an important announcement.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Medic to Medic Podcast, the weekly podcast for
EMS providers, EMS leaders, EMS, medical directors and others involved
in or those who have an interest in emergency medical services.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Ladies and gentlemen, here's your host, Steve.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Cohen, coming from the Ferndale Medical to Medic Podcast Studios.
That's right, I said, Medical Medic Podcasts. After over three
hundred episodes, I stepped away from the mic a few years,
but every once in a while I like to bring
back the podcast for a special edition today, and I've
(00:50):
got a good reason. One of the good reasons why
I like to do this is because I miss this.
I miss talking to EMS, fire police physicians of the
stories that only the public safety folks can truly appreciate.
So when I had a chance to reconnect with a
former colleague, a respected voice in our profession, I knew
it was time to dust off the headset. My guest
(01:14):
today is Jeffrey Hammerstein. Jeff and I worked together back
in the day when I was at carry Are EMS
and he was with Wake County. We're part of the
same system, one team, one mission, Jeffrey is a retired
assistant chief from Wake County EMS. And if you don't
know what Wake County EMS, it's in Raleigh, North Carolina.
(01:34):
He hails and was born in Evansville, Indiana. His family
moved to Raleigh in nineteen eighty three and he set
sights on a paramedic career, and believe it or not,
he was the number four guest on Medicematic Podcast. I
know Jeffey probably didn't remember that, but that was in
October of twenty fifteen. Jeff retired in twenty twenty one
(01:55):
and now works in emergency preparedness at unc rex Healthcare
and Raleigh. He and his wife live in Garner. He's
got a son and a daughter and a grandchild. Why
I wanted Jeff on because he is now a published
author and he wrote the book Hi, I'm a Paramedic.
It's a memoir that doesn't just capture the calls and chaos,
(02:18):
but the heat, humor and humanity of life spent and ems.
It's funny and it's real. So after that long introduction
about Medical Medic podcast and yourself, Jeff, welcome to magne
Metic Podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Thank you very much, Steve. It's great to be back.
And yes I do remember. I may not remember everything we.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Talked about at the time, that yes, of course I remember.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And I couldn't be prouder of how far you developed
the podcast and how white and far a spread.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
And it's great to be here and great to see
you again. It's good to see you too, Jeff. Well,
I know I'm glad you're here. I'm sure my audience
is also happy that you are here. Well, I know
that you were drawn to the ambus business. So why
don't you tell us how that happened? Maybe, I guess
in your book you talk about the first tones. Well,
(03:10):
first of all, why'd you decide to write a book?
Let's let's go back there, and you can see I'm
kind of out of practice. How did you get to
writing the book? And what made you decide to become
an author?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
So that that end up? So was an interesting question. So,
I mean, all of us in this profession over the
years and in society in general, you know, we always
we always hear.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Somebody I ought to write a book, and we always
hear you can't make this stuff up. And I mean,
the truth is, I had no intention of writing an
ems memoir that wasn't just in my head is this
thing I'm going to do when I retire.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
But in that last year before I retired.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I think, like a lot of people probably do, probably
pretty much everybody, you start to reflect a lot, look
back over your career and think about all the things
you've been through, all those relationships you build, all those.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Stories you share with people.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I'm one writer in talking about that kind of thing, said,
we have the same memories and you know each other
really well, and we'rek with hundreds of people. And I
also really started to reflect in a nostalgic way on
not just all those things we've been through, but really looking.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Back to what drew me to ems in the first place.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And and for me, it started in my hometown of
Evansville as a small kid.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Bellman Avenue in Evansville is just a block.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
From my house, and it was an artery to Saint
Mary's Hospital just to the east where ambulances used to
pass by.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
All the time.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And you know, I even think about it was undoubtedly
one of those I don't know, nineteen seventy eight Chevy
Horton ambulances. There were lots of those about And then
also those early seventies Dodge high Tops when they first
started coming out, when we as in general started to
get away from the from the Cadillac ambulances, whether good
(05:01):
or bad. But I used to see those as a
young kid, and they struck me as so urgent, so necessary,
so important. I mean that there was something they were
running off to where they were going, and it seemed
so necessary. I mean, the face of that Dodge van
almost spoke.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Like we've had a gas somewhere and helped somebody.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
And you know, as I got to that, as I
talked about the book, I was a terribly frightened, scared
little child.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I didn't have any particular reason to be. I didn't
have bad things happened to me, but I was just
a sheepish kid.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
And so I saw that, saw those ambulances passing by
as someone going to be helpful and take care of somebody.
And then it was, of course, as is very true
in our generation, being really inspired by the show Emergency
and watching that, and you know, it was not so
much the structure fires or the high Angelo rescues or this.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
That and the other.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
You know, they were okay to watch to me, but
what really captivated me was when Squad fifty one pulled
into a driveway, they pulled out those cases and they
walk into somebody's living room and there'd be somebody on
the couch afraid or in discomfort, and a family member who.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Was worried to death.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
And I think it was that normalcy, the familiarity of
that everyday house, in that everyday living room, in that
everyday fear somebody was having, not that we had ambulances
at our house, but just that feeling. And they would
come in and they would take over, and they would
make things better, get out the stuff they put on
(06:39):
the EKG and transmit it to the hospital and talk
to the doctor and get orders to start an IV
and get medications, and they took control and made that
situation better. And on some level, even as a young kid,
that really spoke to me was kind of answering the
question of where those real ambulances overbeilm me, where they
were heading, and what was happening when they got there,
(07:00):
And somewhere in my subconscious mind, you know, as a
sheepish kid, it started to translate to that's what I'm
gonna do. I'm going to grow into the person who
brings reassurance to the person who feels afraid.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And I set my sights and I never looked back
the entire time. So I think you asked when I
got off on a tangent about writing the book. I
never intended to write that.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
But I was on a trip in the summer of
twenty twenty with my wife, Flatsia. We were driving out
on the interstate, and I told her about the very
first call I ran, and in minute detail I remember.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I remember it better right now the entire day. Then
I do what I have for breakfast this morning, which
is I think typical of people our age.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Also, talk to you right here for a second, okay,
just because you mentioned something that I was going to
ask you, because I know you talk about it in
the book, right the first tones and everything.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
One of the.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Questions I asked a lot of EMTs and paramedics that
are I would say, our generation, as you mentioned before,
if you remember your first call, most of them can recall.
But when you ask some of the younger generation and
one they don't know what emergency is the television show
and they really don't remember the first call. So let's
(08:19):
go back to that first call. Because I can tell
you I remember my first call for every detail, and
I was at my volunteer squad's interview and they took
me along. But I podcast is not about me, but
I remember that like it was yesterday. So tell me
about your first call.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I certainly will let me add the podcast is, in
my opinion, it's about us. The book is about us
as ems professionals. And I just want to add real quick,
as I've talked to folks, this is not meant to
be a story about Jeffrey Hammerstein. This is meant to
(08:58):
be a story about a scared little kid who was
determined to be a paramedic and then did so, and
then this is what that did for that person. Now,
obviously I know my own story the best, so it
is my story. But the intent of this book is
not to be about me. It's to be about us.
I think one thing maybe that probably sets us apart
(09:20):
from some of the younger generation is that we were
probably drawn as kids towards this thing, and maybe even
this romantic draw to the essence of emergency and all
that it portrayed and so on. I don't want to
sound too cheesy, but on an emotional level drawn to
(09:41):
this thing that was ems for these for these existential
reasons and service and.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Now I'm not by enemies trying to take that away
from younger generations. Everybody's different, but I think in some
cases it may be more of a more objective process
for people who come into I'm going to get into
a medical profession. This is a process that these are
the steps in doing so, this is what emergency response
(10:07):
looks like.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
And so I'm going and I'm learning these skills here
and just kind of doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
And it may be less of a subjective I hate
to keep using the word emotional, but it may be
on less. There may be less emotion in it, and
so perhaps less recognition. But when the so I've joined
Garner Rescue Squad as a volunteer. The membership committee meeting,
which it sounds like you were kind of talking about
(10:32):
at my meeting the week before, Susan said, Hey, come
right with my shift.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
We work twenty four hour shifts.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
It starts at six pm on Friday of next week
six pm the following day. Get there Saturday morning. You
can just come on in. We'll be at we'll be
awake after a while, but come on in and you.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Can ride with it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So when I walked through that door, I remember parking
the car and walking across the lot and going up
to the door, because for over ten years I've been
counting down to this moment, and that's coming from that
small kid who was drawn to these ambulances passing by
and seeing emergency and saying, that's what I'm going to do.
So for over half my life at eighteen years old,
(11:12):
but still over half my life, I've been counting down
to that day. And I walked through the door and
set went and found my way to the radio room,
and they were still up there asleep. And my heart rate,
my respiratory rate, and my nervous stomach matched the anticipation
of realizing this could actually be it.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And I was so on edge now it was. You know,
it was nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Five, Garner not a terribly busy place at the time.
I mean, I don't know, eleven twelve hundred calls a
year or something like that, so it could just as
easily have been that we I set for the entire
twelve hours and never responded to a call. But then
as I sat there, I found these old photo albums,
(11:57):
and I thought, well, this will pass some time, and
I'm just kind of soak up the.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
History of this place, kind of get some visuals.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And then, darn of twenty minutes in there were a
set of clicks in tones and the building shook.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I don't know how it's that.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I don't know how it didn't collapse with the alarms
and buzzers that went off.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And then here we go.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And that's a big part of what I spelled out
in that first chapter, and that reference to the tones.
I can't believe I'm hearing these tones, and away we went.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
What was the patient that you went to?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
See?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
This is a call that if if you've been in
the EMS for any length of time, you've run this
call hundreds, if not thousands of.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Times, very routine. It was an older gentleman that had
chest pain.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
He had some discomfort similar to an m Ie had
in the past, and here we are.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Of course, it was an intermediate level call. At that time.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
We didn't carry part monitors, we didn't carry medications, but
we carried ivs. So you know, he got the IVY
at D five W not by my hands, I can
assure you and transport to Rex Hospital.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
But it was well for the For.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
The patient, it was not so routine because here he
was having chest pain and adding a new little segment of.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
History to his cardiac history.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
But for the other career, there they were, they were
doing the things and taking good care of them. But
for me, every moment was this eye opening, astounding thing
that I could not believe, from step to step that
I was actually doing this.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
In the book, you mentioned your stomach on that first call,
and you describe it as a war zone. How about
giving me a little bit more detail about the war
zone and your stomach.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So that's that scared, sheepish kid who who was now
a certified E n T. And that was that was
really the thing that hit me on this call. I'd
gone to class, gotten certified, did the Howard Manning, ten
hours of clinical time, and at the Wait Medical Center
emergency department, you know, seeing a couple of real things,
(14:00):
but I'd never done anything real. I was still that
easily frightened, terrified little kid, and so the nervous stomach
went along with it. So as we walked out and
I climbed in the back of the truck and you
get sent in the back, facing backwards, in this unfamiliar space,
in the dark because the sun was not up yet
because it was November. And then the lights start flashing
(14:21):
and you know, creating that little psychotic effect. And then
we pull out and then the sirens starts wailing. And
it's not the ambulance passing by on bell Meade. It's
not Mayfair on emergency. It's not pretend, it's not television.
It's real. And I'm in this ambulance going to somebody's
(14:42):
real crisis. And the nervousness had me so wound tight.
I started picking a place to vomit. I knew it
was going to happen. I'm going to vomit in this ambulance,
and that's not a very good thing to do. Ambulances
get vomit in them all the time, but not usually
from the responders on the way to a call. And
so I picked the stepwell, the little side entrance Stepwell,
(15:05):
I thought, at least that'll be out of the way.
I can get it cleaned up while they go inside
whatever the thing is.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And that's just what's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Fortunately for me, I'm not necessarily that prone to actually
by following, thankfully, and I kept it contained, and I
talked myself down and I kept some deep breaths, and
then away we went. That was in the first half
a mile on this two mile trip. And then you know,
we headed on to the call. And it did cross
my mind to stop and say, just let me just
(15:34):
let me out, just let me out.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
This isn't gonna work out. But I didn't do that.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I don't think they would have stopped let me out anyway,
but I would have just walked back to my car
and gotten in and driven away and said, well, I
guess I'm gonna do something else.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Now.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
When you went to Garner on our first call, you
were certified EMKI.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
No, I was certified as an EMT, but other than
those clinical hours in the ED, I had no practical
experience whatsoever. So this was the first of anything, certainly
in the role of an observer. Here, help me do
this or hand me do whatever. But we got there,
and we got inside this house and the man was
very calm, his wife was kind of anxious. As we
filed in, I noticed Susan, who had driven, took his
(16:17):
wife into the kitchen and started gathering information.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And then John who was in well, I think they
may have been both in heir miniates, I can't remember.
But he sat down. He was the lead attendant.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I stuck with him, and he just started so calmly
and matter of factly connecting.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
With this guy, and then started asking him questions. So
you're having chest painting.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Where does it hurt? Do you feel it over here?
Do you feel it in your arms? Just all these
things we asked. And my jaw dropped open, hopefully just
in my mind, because I was thinking, I know all
these questions. I've been trained to ask all these questions.
I know why he's asking them, I know what the
answers mean.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But I couldn't have come up with any of them.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I would have just frozen and not been able to
ask a single one of them. And I was blown
away by John's calmness, his collectiveness, and his ability to
just ask these questions that we needed the answer to.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Now, obviously, obviously we get better with that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
That's what getting experience means, and you learn to do
that and much more complex things than a simple chest
pain call. But I was blown away by that and
had somebody in that first moment to look up to
to learn how to do this from now.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I want to take you back to something I've read
in chapter two. One thing that I think you do
really well is that you talk about your own vulnerability.
You're right, as we mentioned, the book is about the
scared little kid about paramedics, being an AMP and all that,
because it's not all about the protocol, the badges, and
(17:54):
it's about being a little bit scared and very vulnerable.
I mean you right honestly about your fear plus early
on in your career. I guess what I'm trying to say,
how did you learn to manage that? Or how'd you learn?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I guess sure it comes down to share determination that
this is what I want to do. And you know,
there's all different kinds of people in the world.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I know there's a lot of folks in the EMS
who were that scared, insecure, vulnerable little kid that overcame
this too. But by being determined that this is I
decided as a kid that a paramedic is who I
was and never letting go from that. That determination drew
me through those difficult times of.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Learning how to take care of people in an emergency.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
And you know, there's there's one time I remember the
first time I've been on the squad for a while
and on a regular roof and had always been kind
of the second person, third person or second person.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Tagging along doing what's needed.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
And I remember that first night we were waking at
one am for a set call and my partner says,
you got this when you're doing it. I was horrified.
I didn't let anybody know it, but I was horrified.
I had never begen. I thought back to that first call.
This was several months later after that first call, but
I thought back to that thinking I would have been
(19:16):
completely frozen. I wouldn't have known anything to ask. And
so we got into this house at two o'clock in
the morning. There's concerned family in there for a mom
who's upstairs at seventies or eighties.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
It just hasn't been right for days. And we packed
into that room.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And it's the first time I walked in as the
first respond the first responding person.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
I never led the pathway into the treatment scene or
however you want to put it. So here I was
in the patient and the worrying family members, and there
may have been.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
A firefighter or two there. They all looked at me
in my partner. They all looked at me, and I
was supposed to say what happens next? And I was mortified,
and so I asked some lame, you're not feeling well
huh kind of questions when not a bad start. I
mean that opens it up, you know, Hi, I'm Jeff,
I'm in the eumt what everything is?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
And and she just says no, and that was it.
I thought, Okay, I'm gonna have to come up with
another question.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And so I stumbled over these short bursts of questions
where I hope somebody would just start telling me.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
What's going on. And I got stuck a.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Question or two into it, and I looked up at
my partner, Gene, he was the chief of Garner.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
At the time.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I looked at him, like, you're gonna save me, I mean,
tell me what to do next.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I don't know what to do next. And I looked
up at him and he just stared right back at me.
He didn't make a sound, he didn't move a muscle.
He just stared me back down. And I thought, oh no,
I am in trouble. He's not gonna save me.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
And it was with that it was literally feeling sweat
start to beat on my forehead and then looking back
from him and looking at the patient and anxious family
members staring at me, waiting for me to make this
thing better. I had absolutely no idea what my next
step was.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I came up with a question or two. I figured out,
I'm going to take a blood pressure.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
That's going to buy me time, which is a reasonable
thing to do anyway, but I was using it as
a crutch because I didn't know what to do next.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
But that's the moment where I really realized, you're gonna
have to figure this out.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You're going to have to figure it out. And I
from there I started to do that. I learned to
talk to people. Even as late as high school. I
was a weird loaner. I had my little notebook. I
walked up down the hallways in high school between classes,
looking down, hoping nobody would look at me or talk
to me because I was scared. And I turned it
into when I'm on the scene in the call, I
(21:50):
do know what I'm talking about, I do know what
I'm saying, I do know what to do. I got
to be able to work it out, and I learned
to lead those sits situations and I learned that being
in an EMS situation gave me my own personal authority
to walk and speak with confidence and lead the way.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
And it just clicked and went from there.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Two things. One, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the
same Gene who that starers always around. Then Gene was
also a guest on my podcast as well, And yeah,
I ran numerous calls with Gene, So I know that's stair,
I believe it or not. But we don't talk enough
about how fear can shape us into being better responders.
(22:36):
If you've ever felt like you didn't belong in this
job because you didn't fit the tough guy mode, this
kind of gave you the permission slip to be in
the profession thoughts.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Without a doubt, And that tough guy mode we all
know is way more of a facade for a whole
lot of us in this.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Type of fession than people ever want to let on.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I mean, you know, I think it's probably less so
now that certainly when I came around partly in Garner
but definitely Wait County EMS and when I came around
in eighty eight. I mean, that's the tough setting that
you walk into, your walk out here, I'm this skinning,
little awkward kid real, you know, by comparison walking into
these city guide, these urban paramedic professionals who do this
(23:26):
all day every day professionally. I hate to say hazing,
because it's not like there was abuse, but it's.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
A tough social situation to walk into.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But I had the sense not to try to prove
myself as not afraid of them. I had to find
a balance between oh, no, I respect you. I'm going
to lay low and stay cool, but I also can't
let myself appear so sheepish that I become a target
on that end, that they're going to pounce on me.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Because I look like a little weakling.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So somehow I found a balance and felt good with
that and wrote along with it and then learn to
meld into it. And you know, there's plenty of people
to try to come in and be the tough guy
coming in. I'm not going to let you guys scare
me and they just get they get eaten for breakfast.
But that I think a lot of it is a
facadey tough guy thing, and that there's there's some really obviously,
(24:20):
I don't want to compare being a tough guy with
not being a decent person. But there's a lot of
decent people who take really good care of people that still.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Have that nothing.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I'm not afraid of anything kind of thing that that's
probably not as true as they would like you to think.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I kind of want to go back to you because
you mentioned the show Emergency. How accurate do you think
that show was in shaping public and professional perceptions of paramedics.
I know it's someone not part of the book, but
it's to me it's an interesting question because we both
were raised on I mean, I got into being an
EMS because of that show. And just just a little
(25:00):
side note, I got my wife watching it now, O
is that right? Yeah, she'll watch it for a little bit.
She'll stick with it for about a half hour or so,
but she is watching it with me now. I know,
you know Marion. Marion still tapes it. We text back
and forth. Mary took over his chief for me at
Carrie Ums and we communicate on a pretty regular basis.
(25:23):
He texted me the other day he says, yeah, I'm
watching an Emergency. I'm sorry, but I just had to
digress a little bit.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I think the impact probably defining for an awful lot.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Of the country.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Just as it inspired many of us to get into
it ourselves. I think it also probably more so inspired
communities to say, hey, why can't.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
We have that here?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
We need that level of service here, And I think
they got wheels turning.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
All over the place. Now.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
One of the interesting things is having since learned only
in the last six or seven in years about freedom
house ambulance from back from from your home area, and
learning how how they really did so much to define
what paramedic care is when it was so new and
when the idea was so new and in the immense
(26:17):
amount of work and lasting legacy, whether we know them
by name or not, that they introduced, and then learning
that emergency kind of not that they weren't developing things
on their own, emergency is what brought that concept to
public consciousness on a on a national level, and I
think did a tremendous amount to inspire developing those types
(26:39):
of programs across the nation. And that's I mean, that's
that's what you're getting at, Is that correct? Is what
was that impact on the on the nation and on
the paramedic level career, on the profession.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah, I definitely think.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
So I'm with Jeff Hammerstein, who is the author. Hi,
I'm a paramedic. It's now available, and we'll talk about
where that's available and how you can get this. Uh
river to about EMS and paramedic and a little bit
about Jeff. Just a little bit about Jeff in there.
I guess, was there ever a moment that you said, well,
(27:10):
I can't do this, I want to leave EMS? And
if there was, what brought.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
You back as far as being able to do the job.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
There was never a time where I thought I can't
do this, I'm going to go do something else. If
I ever questioned that it was it was on the
way to that first call. Plenty of times where I
challenged my own abilities.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Am I really?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
And that's getting later into the more experienced years and
being a field training officer, you know, Am I aligned
to myself?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Just?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Am I bullet jump thinking that I'm good at being
a paramedic and that I should be the one teaching
people And just doubts like that along the way, thoughts
that crossed my mind, trying to be honest enough with
myself to challenge my own notions in that regard, But
never at a point where I thought never was the answer
to the question, No, I should and be doing this.
(28:01):
I have the confidence. Yeah, I know what I'm talking about.
There are people who are way better at breast sounds
than I am. I struggle with breast sounds. I struggle
with it and doubted myself left and right, and then
I see partners listen, listen, listen and just nail it
and start down a treatment path that seemed just right
to me, and.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Then not me not having the confidence in the same thing.
But you know, there's different things like that.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
But I also think we should be challenging ourselves on
that constantly. We should be making sure we're serving well.
My test, and I'm sure other people do this too.
My litmus test throughout my career was always, did this
person have as good a shot at a good outcome
(28:46):
with me there as they would with another paramedic. And
you have to challenge that by making sure you're staying
current on continuing education, that you're paying attention, that you're
not just phoning it in on calls, that you're giving
your best paramedic self time after time, as utterly exhausting
as it becomes, and not expecting perfection because we're so
(29:10):
far from it that on those serious calls where what
you do and don't do matters, would this person have
been better off?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Did they have as good as shot by my hand?
And sometimes the answer is now, I should have done
this person better. And what do you do about that?
You go figure out what that thing is and you
get better at that thing and try to move forward.
And I don't want to try to sound too noble.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Because it's far from perfect, but I think that's what
we should expect of ourselves.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Your writing is very personal. How did it feel to
put these stories to paper and then get it published?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Ridiculously vulnerable? I mean, it's crazy. And where it really
hit was just what was it? I guess it was Maystimes.
I'm where I saw the live link on Amazon and
Barnes and Noble, and I've since seen it in at
(30:08):
least eight different languages, at least, you know, in Germany and.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
France and just all these different places.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, the all the the only thing in English
is the description of the book, because.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
That's just part of the distribution package.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I mean, if it's on any one website, it's worldwide
by definition.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
But still to see in all these places and then
I remember stopping thinking.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Oh my god, what have I done.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I mean, it's like standing out there naked in the
middle of the highway saying I've said all this stuff
that's open for anybody in the world to see. Not
that I have any kind of illusions about how many
people will.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Ever see or read this whatever. It's not that. It's
just that if something is public, it's public, period, and
it can go anywhere and anybody can take anything.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And it's also probably insane vain is what we talk about.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Am I the right paramedic?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
There's some imposter syndrome on writing this much and putting
it out there, and then are people going to read
and say, what is this dude writing for? You know,
keep it to yourself or something. But I knew I
wanted to write it once I started. As my wife
that told me, you're going to do this.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
We're always listening to our wives, Yes we do, so.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yeah, definitely. In fact, I don't. Yeah, she said, dude,
write a book. You go to write a book. This
is what you're doing. And so it felt pretentious to
me to say, oh, I'm writing a book. I'm an author,
I'm writing a book. I didn't want to say that.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
So I wrote the first story that first day as
more like, I'm just going to write this like a
journal entry and we'll just see where it goes from there.
So I wrote that, and I thought, well, all right, Well,
so the next thing I would say is I would
talk about when I was a kid, and YadA, YadA, YadA,
and then well, I guess I got to write. Well,
then then we came here and I took you and
t class and off. So that's how the book came
to be. It's her fault, and I thank your every
(31:56):
moment for it.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Now you go, but.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, it's it's incredibly vulnerable feeling. But but the truth
is I feel really good about that because I believe.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
And on time. Is what I said earlier.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
It's not about me, it's about us, and and it's
a it's a it's a thank you to the EMS
profession for what it has been for me, for taking
that scared little kid and turning that kid into a confident,
capable adult who took care of people under dire circumstances.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
That's the gift of a life.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Then the you know, the like talking about our wives
and kids and family and and those things that are
truly what you what I mean, that's why I went
to work is to take care of my family and
be that. But what Ems has done for me I
couldn't have been proud of in the smith the world.
And I think a lot of people this this information, information,
(32:52):
this story would resonate with and they could see themselves
in it a lot. And I also think of it
in terms of, you know, if there are spouses, family
members of responders, it's my hope that it would give
them an avenue to see a little bit more about
what we really face and go through, because you know,
we get we get called heroes all the time, which is.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Silly in a lot of cases.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Sure we've all done heroic things, but we'russell doing a
job that's no more or less essential than an awful
lot of.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Jobs that get done. But we get we get.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Public praise and family praise, and the heroes are out
there and waving, you know, huh give put them in
a parade and all this stuff, and it's those family
members that are left at home hour after hour, shift
after shift. You know, my wife ten nights a week
raising two young kids on her own. You know, if
there's a thunderstorm or a funny sound or all these things.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
That frighten people or whatever. I'm out there.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Saving the world quote unquote, and she's at home raising
two kids, and that such a backbone thing.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
And I think that's an important part for all.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Of us to realize and acknowledge and praise, but also
lets those family members get a peek on what was
happening in all those hours that we were just gone
away not at home.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
If you could go back to talk to your young self,
what advice would you give after everything you've been through,
What advice would you give to your young self before
stepping into that ambulance?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
A couple of things and answering true to your question,
I would also apply it to others who are getting
into ems.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
First of all, Number one, you're.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Go being all right just through your thing, study hard,
take that seriously. Pay attention is exhausted as we get
don't let that become too much of our outer self.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Now. I have plenty of times.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
You can ask any of my partners through the nineties,
I got tired, exhausted, short tempered. I don't I don't
think I was ever mean to anybody, but I was
probably less giving than I could have been in a
lot of cases when we were that exhausted. But I
think part of it in this, I really mean knew people,
newer people getting into EMS, is we have to understand
(35:18):
that this as a career.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Or long term EMS nine to one one response is not.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
The dramatic, flashy television show or recruitment brochure that recruitment
would have us believe. The big dramatic calls that happened
that require us to be at our very best, where we.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Use skills, where we have technical imperative, where.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
We want to get medications and do these these dramatic procedures.
Those calls happen, but there they are comparatively few and
far between.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Like any job, there's the monotony, there's the.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Over and over and over again, where the person we're
responding to we're not going to make or break their life.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
We're not going to make or break their health care.
But that's an awfully big part of it.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
With that in mind, my advice to the you know,
I hope I'm not getting ahead of you, but my
advice to the to the even the experienced responders, is
is not to let yourself get caught up in or
fall into the abyss of deciding who does and doesn't
deserve your care. I understand that we get frustrated with
(36:27):
people calling nine one one that we that we wouldn't
have called nine one one for.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
It's a massive, complex, multi layered issue.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
And the thing is none of us are going to
solve that from the back of an ambulance. There are
so many people who have been so inclined to lecture
a patient on when they should and shouldn't be calling,
and making them feel terrible for having called. And there's
four cards in the driveway, and we're not all these things.
So those are big, complex issues, but their national healthcare
(37:02):
system issues that you're not going to solve as an individual.
So if and I'm not the one to solve, I
don't know how to solve that. I'm not smart enough
to solve that.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
I don't have the.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Mindset to affect institutional operational change to deal with any
of that. So that's not where my lady is and
I'm not going anywhere near there. If that's if that's
where it is for you, then get some smart folks
together and start working on it. For me, the advice is,
if you can't do that, then then come to terms
(37:33):
with it. Yes, they're going to call nine one one,
whether you think they should or not. The best thing
you can do for yourself is to come to terms
with that and go serve that person.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Pull up.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
That may be the only time this week that anybody
has treated them like they matter one way or the other.
So you've got to pull some type of reward in
ems from the human connection and interaction in human service.
Because if you're just waiting on how cool it is
to innovate and give, well, I don't want to say
(38:07):
lighter king, some other medication for telling.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Them back in the older what you're hanging your hat.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
On for job satisfaction, You're not gonna be well served.
You've got to pull something bigger, more human service oriented
than just this.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Cool skill you did. And that's what I would tell
my younger self.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Hi, I'm a Paramedic. Is available now, Jeff? How can
people get this book?
Speaker 1 (38:33):
It's simple in our modern world probably just about anywhere
you buy books online, so Amazon, Barnes and Noble online.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
And I mean if you can get to those, you
can get the book.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
It's the release state is August first, and so I'm
really looking forward to that coming out and seeing what happens.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
It is truly my.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Hope that people in our business and people just curious
can find a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Of themselves in this story about this kid who became
a paramedic.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
Jeff, it's been an honor to have you back on
the podcast, work with you and bring your voice back
to this space. To everyone listening, thanks for joining and
coming along on this journey.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Thank you, Steve, it's been a pleasure.
The attention all listeners on this frequency stand by for
an important announcement.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Medic to Medic Podcast, the weekly podcast for
EMS providers, EMS leaders, EMS, medical directors and others involved
in or those who have an interest in emergency medical services.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Ladies and gentlemen, here's your host, Steve.
Speaker 4 (00:30):
Cohen, coming from the Ferndale Medical to Medic Podcast Studios.
That's right, I said, Medical Medic Podcasts. After over three
hundred episodes, I stepped away from the mic a few years,
but every once in a while I like to bring
back the podcast for a special edition today, and I've
(00:50):
got a good reason. One of the good reasons why
I like to do this is because I miss this.
I miss talking to EMS, fire police physicians of the
stories that only the public safety folks can truly appreciate.
So when I had a chance to reconnect with a
former colleague, a respected voice in our profession, I knew
it was time to dust off the headset. My guest
(01:14):
today is Jeffrey Hammerstein. Jeff and I worked together back
in the day when I was at carry Are EMS
and he was with Wake County. We're part of the
same system, one team, one mission, Jeffrey is a retired
assistant chief from Wake County EMS. And if you don't
know what Wake County EMS, it's in Raleigh, North Carolina.
(01:34):
He hails and was born in Evansville, Indiana. His family
moved to Raleigh in nineteen eighty three and he set
sights on a paramedic career, and believe it or not,
he was the number four guest on Medicematic Podcast. I
know Jeffey probably didn't remember that, but that was in
October of twenty fifteen. Jeff retired in twenty twenty one
(01:55):
and now works in emergency preparedness at unc rex Healthcare
and Raleigh. He and his wife live in Garner. He's
got a son and a daughter and a grandchild. Why
I wanted Jeff on because he is now a published
author and he wrote the book Hi, I'm a Paramedic.
It's a memoir that doesn't just capture the calls and chaos,
(02:18):
but the heat, humor and humanity of life spent and ems.
It's funny and it's real. So after that long introduction
about Medical Medic podcast and yourself, Jeff, welcome to magne
Metic Podcast.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Thank you very much, Steve. It's great to be back.
And yes I do remember. I may not remember everything we.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Talked about at the time, that yes, of course I remember.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
And I couldn't be prouder of how far you developed
the podcast and how white and far a spread.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
And it's great to be here and great to see
you again. It's good to see you too, Jeff. Well,
I know I'm glad you're here. I'm sure my audience
is also happy that you are here. Well, I know
that you were drawn to the ambus business. So why
don't you tell us how that happened? Maybe, I guess
in your book you talk about the first tones. Well,
(03:10):
first of all, why'd you decide to write a book?
Let's let's go back there, and you can see I'm
kind of out of practice. How did you get to
writing the book? And what made you decide to become
an author?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
So that that end up? So was an interesting question. So,
I mean, all of us in this profession over the
years and in society in general, you know, we always
we always hear.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Somebody I ought to write a book, and we always
hear you can't make this stuff up. And I mean,
the truth is, I had no intention of writing an
ems memoir that wasn't just in my head is this
thing I'm going to do when I retire.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
But in that last year before I retired.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I think, like a lot of people probably do, probably
pretty much everybody, you start to reflect a lot, look
back over your career and think about all the things
you've been through, all those relationships you build, all those.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Stories you share with people.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I'm one writer in talking about that kind of thing, said,
we have the same memories and you know each other
really well, and we'rek with hundreds of people. And I
also really started to reflect in a nostalgic way on
not just all those things we've been through, but really looking.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Back to what drew me to ems in the first place.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And and for me, it started in my hometown of
Evansville as a small kid.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Bellman Avenue in Evansville is just a block.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
From my house, and it was an artery to Saint
Mary's Hospital just to the east where ambulances used to
pass by.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
All the time.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And you know, I even think about it was undoubtedly
one of those I don't know, nineteen seventy eight Chevy
Horton ambulances. There were lots of those about And then
also those early seventies Dodge high Tops when they first
started coming out, when we as in general started to
get away from the from the Cadillac ambulances, whether good
(05:01):
or bad. But I used to see those as a
young kid, and they struck me as so urgent, so necessary,
so important. I mean that there was something they were
running off to where they were going, and it seemed
so necessary. I mean, the face of that Dodge van
almost spoke.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Like we've had a gas somewhere and helped somebody.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
And you know, as I got to that, as I
talked about the book, I was a terribly frightened, scared
little child.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I didn't have any particular reason to be. I didn't
have bad things happened to me, but I was just
a sheepish kid.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
And so I saw that, saw those ambulances passing by
as someone going to be helpful and take care of somebody.
And then it was, of course, as is very true
in our generation, being really inspired by the show Emergency
and watching that, and you know, it was not so
much the structure fires or the high Angelo rescues or this.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
That and the other.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
You know, they were okay to watch to me, but
what really captivated me was when Squad fifty one pulled
into a driveway, they pulled out those cases and they
walk into somebody's living room and there'd be somebody on
the couch afraid or in discomfort, and a family member who.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Was worried to death.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
And I think it was that normalcy, the familiarity of
that everyday house, in that everyday living room, in that
everyday fear somebody was having, not that we had ambulances
at our house, but just that feeling. And they would
come in and they would take over, and they would
make things better, get out the stuff they put on
(06:39):
the EKG and transmit it to the hospital and talk
to the doctor and get orders to start an IV
and get medications, and they took control and made that
situation better. And on some level, even as a young kid,
that really spoke to me was kind of answering the
question of where those real ambulances overbeilm me, where they
were heading, and what was happening when they got there,
(07:00):
And somewhere in my subconscious mind, you know, as a
sheepish kid, it started to translate to that's what I'm
gonna do. I'm going to grow into the person who
brings reassurance to the person who feels afraid.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
And I set my sights and I never looked back
the entire time. So I think you asked when I
got off on a tangent about writing the book. I
never intended to write that.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
But I was on a trip in the summer of
twenty twenty with my wife, Flatsia. We were driving out
on the interstate, and I told her about the very
first call I ran, and in minute detail I remember.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
I remember it better right now the entire day. Then
I do what I have for breakfast this morning, which
is I think typical of people our age.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Also, talk to you right here for a second, okay,
just because you mentioned something that I was going to
ask you, because I know you talk about it in
the book, right the first tones and everything.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
One of the.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Questions I asked a lot of EMTs and paramedics that
are I would say, our generation, as you mentioned before,
if you remember your first call, most of them can recall.
But when you ask some of the younger generation and
one they don't know what emergency is the television show
and they really don't remember the first call. So let's
(08:19):
go back to that first call. Because I can tell
you I remember my first call for every detail, and
I was at my volunteer squad's interview and they took
me along. But I podcast is not about me, but
I remember that like it was yesterday. So tell me
about your first call.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I certainly will let me add the podcast is, in
my opinion, it's about us. The book is about us
as ems professionals. And I just want to add real quick,
as I've talked to folks, this is not meant to
be a story about Jeffrey Hammerstein. This is meant to
(08:58):
be a story about a scared little kid who was
determined to be a paramedic and then did so, and
then this is what that did for that person. Now,
obviously I know my own story the best, so it
is my story. But the intent of this book is
not to be about me. It's to be about us.
I think one thing maybe that probably sets us apart
(09:20):
from some of the younger generation is that we were
probably drawn as kids towards this thing, and maybe even
this romantic draw to the essence of emergency and all
that it portrayed and so on. I don't want to
sound too cheesy, but on an emotional level drawn to
(09:41):
this thing that was ems for these for these existential
reasons and service and.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Now I'm not by enemies trying to take that away
from younger generations. Everybody's different, but I think in some
cases it may be more of a more objective process
for people who come into I'm going to get into
a medical profession. This is a process that these are
the steps in doing so, this is what emergency response
(10:07):
looks like.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
And so I'm going and I'm learning these skills here
and just kind of doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
And it may be less of a subjective I hate
to keep using the word emotional, but it may be
on less. There may be less emotion in it, and
so perhaps less recognition. But when the so I've joined
Garner Rescue Squad as a volunteer. The membership committee meeting,
which it sounds like you were kind of talking about
(10:32):
at my meeting the week before, Susan said, Hey, come
right with my shift.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
We work twenty four hour shifts.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
It starts at six pm on Friday of next week
six pm the following day. Get there Saturday morning. You
can just come on in. We'll be at we'll be
awake after a while, but come on in and you.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Can ride with it.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
So when I walked through that door, I remember parking
the car and walking across the lot and going up
to the door, because for over ten years I've been
counting down to this moment, and that's coming from that
small kid who was drawn to these ambulances passing by
and seeing emergency and saying, that's what I'm going to do.
So for over half my life at eighteen years old,
(11:12):
but still over half my life, I've been counting down
to that day. And I walked through the door and
set went and found my way to the radio room,
and they were still up there asleep. And my heart rate,
my respiratory rate, and my nervous stomach matched the anticipation
of realizing this could actually be it.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
And I was so on edge now it was. You know,
it was nineteen eighty.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Five, Garner not a terribly busy place at the time.
I mean, I don't know, eleven twelve hundred calls a
year or something like that, so it could just as
easily have been that we I set for the entire
twelve hours and never responded to a call. But then
as I sat there, I found these old photo albums,
(11:57):
and I thought, well, this will pass some time, and
I'm just kind of soak up the.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
History of this place, kind of get some visuals.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And then, darn of twenty minutes in there were a
set of clicks in tones and the building shook.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
I don't know how it's that.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I don't know how it didn't collapse with the alarms
and buzzers that went off.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
And then here we go.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And that's a big part of what I spelled out
in that first chapter, and that reference to the tones.
I can't believe I'm hearing these tones, and away we went.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
What was the patient that you went to?
Speaker 1 (12:30):
See?
Speaker 3 (12:31):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
This is a call that if if you've been in
the EMS for any length of time, you've run this
call hundreds, if not thousands of.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Times, very routine. It was an older gentleman that had
chest pain.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
He had some discomfort similar to an m Ie had
in the past, and here we are.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Of course, it was an intermediate level call. At that time.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
We didn't carry part monitors, we didn't carry medications, but
we carried ivs. So you know, he got the IVY
at D five W not by my hands, I can
assure you and transport to Rex Hospital.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
But it was well for the For.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
The patient, it was not so routine because here he
was having chest pain and adding a new little segment of.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
History to his cardiac history.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
But for the other career, there they were, they were
doing the things and taking good care of them. But
for me, every moment was this eye opening, astounding thing
that I could not believe, from step to step that
I was actually doing this.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
In the book, you mentioned your stomach on that first call,
and you describe it as a war zone. How about
giving me a little bit more detail about the war
zone and your stomach.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So that's that scared, sheepish kid who who was now
a certified E n T. And that was that was
really the thing that hit me on this call. I'd
gone to class, gotten certified, did the Howard Manning, ten
hours of clinical time, and at the Wait Medical Center
emergency department, you know, seeing a couple of real things,
(14:00):
but I'd never done anything real. I was still that
easily frightened, terrified little kid, and so the nervous stomach
went along with it. So as we walked out and
I climbed in the back of the truck and you
get sent in the back, facing backwards, in this unfamiliar space,
in the dark because the sun was not up yet
because it was November. And then the lights start flashing
(14:21):
and you know, creating that little psychotic effect. And then
we pull out and then the sirens starts wailing. And
it's not the ambulance passing by on bell Meade. It's
not Mayfair on emergency. It's not pretend, it's not television.
It's real. And I'm in this ambulance going to somebody's
(14:42):
real crisis. And the nervousness had me so wound tight.
I started picking a place to vomit. I knew it
was going to happen. I'm going to vomit in this ambulance,
and that's not a very good thing to do. Ambulances
get vomit in them all the time, but not usually
from the responders on the way to a call. And
so I picked the stepwell, the little side entrance Stepwell,
(15:05):
I thought, at least that'll be out of the way.
I can get it cleaned up while they go inside
whatever the thing is.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
And that's just what's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Fortunately for me, I'm not necessarily that prone to actually
by following, thankfully, and I kept it contained, and I
talked myself down and I kept some deep breaths, and
then away we went. That was in the first half
a mile on this two mile trip. And then you know,
we headed on to the call. And it did cross
my mind to stop and say, just let me just
(15:34):
let me out, just let me out.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
This isn't gonna work out. But I didn't do that.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I don't think they would have stopped let me out anyway,
but I would have just walked back to my car
and gotten in and driven away and said, well, I
guess I'm gonna do something else.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Now.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
When you went to Garner on our first call, you
were certified EMKI.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
No, I was certified as an EMT, but other than
those clinical hours in the ED, I had no practical
experience whatsoever. So this was the first of anything, certainly
in the role of an observer. Here, help me do
this or hand me do whatever. But we got there,
and we got inside this house and the man was
very calm, his wife was kind of anxious. As we
filed in, I noticed Susan, who had driven, took his
(16:17):
wife into the kitchen and started gathering information.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And then John who was in well, I think they
may have been both in heir miniates, I can't remember.
But he sat down. He was the lead attendant.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I stuck with him, and he just started so calmly
and matter of factly connecting.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
With this guy, and then started asking him questions. So
you're having chest painting.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Where does it hurt? Do you feel it over here?
Do you feel it in your arms? Just all these
things we asked. And my jaw dropped open, hopefully just
in my mind, because I was thinking, I know all
these questions. I've been trained to ask all these questions.
I know why he's asking them, I know what the
answers mean.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But I couldn't have come up with any of them.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I would have just frozen and not been able to
ask a single one of them. And I was blown
away by John's calmness, his collectiveness, and his ability to
just ask these questions that we needed the answer to.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Now, obviously, obviously we get better with that.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
That's what getting experience means, and you learn to do
that and much more complex things than a simple chest
pain call. But I was blown away by that and
had somebody in that first moment to look up to
to learn how to do this from now.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
I want to take you back to something I've read
in chapter two. One thing that I think you do
really well is that you talk about your own vulnerability.
You're right, as we mentioned, the book is about the
scared little kid about paramedics, being an AMP and all that,
because it's not all about the protocol, the badges, and
(17:54):
it's about being a little bit scared and very vulnerable.
I mean you right honestly about your fear plus early
on in your career. I guess what I'm trying to say,
how did you learn to manage that? Or how'd you learn?
Speaker 3 (18:06):
I guess sure it comes down to share determination that
this is what I want to do. And you know,
there's all different kinds of people in the world.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I know there's a lot of folks in the EMS
who were that scared, insecure, vulnerable little kid that overcame
this too. But by being determined that this is I
decided as a kid that a paramedic is who I
was and never letting go from that. That determination drew
me through those difficult times of.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Learning how to take care of people in an emergency.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
And you know, there's there's one time I remember the
first time I've been on the squad for a while
and on a regular roof and had always been kind
of the second person, third person or second person.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Tagging along doing what's needed.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
And I remember that first night we were waking at
one am for a set call and my partner says,
you got this when you're doing it. I was horrified.
I didn't let anybody know it, but I was horrified.
I had never begen. I thought back to that first call.
This was several months later after that first call, but
I thought back to that thinking I would have been
(19:16):
completely frozen. I wouldn't have known anything to ask. And
so we got into this house at two o'clock in
the morning. There's concerned family in there for a mom
who's upstairs at seventies or eighties.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
It just hasn't been right for days. And we packed
into that room.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
And it's the first time I walked in as the
first respond the first responding person.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
I never led the pathway into the treatment scene or
however you want to put it. So here I was
in the patient and the worrying family members, and there
may have been.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
A firefighter or two there. They all looked at me
in my partner. They all looked at me, and I
was supposed to say what happens next? And I was mortified,
and so I asked some lame, you're not feeling well
huh kind of questions when not a bad start. I
mean that opens it up, you know, Hi, I'm Jeff,
I'm in the eumt what everything is?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
And and she just says no, and that was it.
I thought, Okay, I'm gonna have to come up with
another question.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
And so I stumbled over these short bursts of questions
where I hope somebody would just start telling me.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
What's going on. And I got stuck a.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Question or two into it, and I looked up at
my partner, Gene, he was the chief of Garner.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
At the time.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I looked at him, like, you're gonna save me, I mean,
tell me what to do next.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I don't know what to do next. And I looked
up at him and he just stared right back at me.
He didn't make a sound, he didn't move a muscle.
He just stared me back down. And I thought, oh no,
I am in trouble. He's not gonna save me.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
And it was with that it was literally feeling sweat
start to beat on my forehead and then looking back
from him and looking at the patient and anxious family
members staring at me, waiting for me to make this
thing better. I had absolutely no idea what my next
step was.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
I came up with a question or two. I figured out,
I'm going to take a blood pressure.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
That's going to buy me time, which is a reasonable
thing to do anyway, but I was using it as
a crutch because I didn't know what to do next.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
But that's the moment where I really realized, you're gonna
have to figure this out.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You're going to have to figure it out. And I
from there I started to do that. I learned to
talk to people. Even as late as high school. I
was a weird loaner. I had my little notebook. I
walked up down the hallways in high school between classes,
looking down, hoping nobody would look at me or talk
to me because I was scared. And I turned it
into when I'm on the scene in the call, I
(21:50):
do know what I'm talking about, I do know what
I'm saying, I do know what to do. I got
to be able to work it out, and I learned
to lead those sits situations and I learned that being
in an EMS situation gave me my own personal authority
to walk and speak with confidence and lead the way.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
And it just clicked and went from there.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Two things. One, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the
same Gene who that starers always around. Then Gene was
also a guest on my podcast as well, And yeah,
I ran numerous calls with Gene, So I know that's stair,
I believe it or not. But we don't talk enough
about how fear can shape us into being better responders.
(22:36):
If you've ever felt like you didn't belong in this
job because you didn't fit the tough guy mode, this
kind of gave you the permission slip to be in
the profession thoughts.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Without a doubt, And that tough guy mode we all
know is way more of a facade for a whole
lot of us in this.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Type of fession than people ever want to let on.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I mean, you know, I think it's probably less so
now that certainly when I came around partly in Garner
but definitely Wait County EMS and when I came around
in eighty eight. I mean, that's the tough setting that
you walk into, your walk out here, I'm this skinning,
little awkward kid real, you know, by comparison walking into
these city guide, these urban paramedic professionals who do this
(23:26):
all day every day professionally. I hate to say hazing,
because it's not like there was abuse, but it's.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
A tough social situation to walk into.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
But I had the sense not to try to prove
myself as not afraid of them. I had to find
a balance between oh, no, I respect you. I'm going
to lay low and stay cool, but I also can't
let myself appear so sheepish that I become a target
on that end, that they're going to pounce on me.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Because I look like a little weakling.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
So somehow I found a balance and felt good with
that and wrote along with it and then learn to
meld into it. And you know, there's plenty of people
to try to come in and be the tough guy
coming in. I'm not going to let you guys scare
me and they just get they get eaten for breakfast.
But that I think a lot of it is a
facadey tough guy thing, and that there's there's some really obviously,
(24:20):
I don't want to compare being a tough guy with
not being a decent person. But there's a lot of
decent people who take really good care of people that still.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Have that nothing.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I'm not afraid of anything kind of thing that that's
probably not as true as they would like you to think.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I kind of want to go back to you because
you mentioned the show Emergency. How accurate do you think
that show was in shaping public and professional perceptions of paramedics.
I know it's someone not part of the book, but
it's to me it's an interesting question because we both
were raised on I mean, I got into being an
EMS because of that show. And just just a little
(25:00):
side note, I got my wife watching it now, O
is that right? Yeah, she'll watch it for a little bit.
She'll stick with it for about a half hour or so,
but she is watching it with me now. I know,
you know Marion. Marion still tapes it. We text back
and forth. Mary took over his chief for me at
Carrie Ums and we communicate on a pretty regular basis.
(25:23):
He texted me the other day he says, yeah, I'm
watching an Emergency. I'm sorry, but I just had to
digress a little bit.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
I think the impact probably defining for an awful lot.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Of the country.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Just as it inspired many of us to get into
it ourselves. I think it also probably more so inspired
communities to say, hey, why can't.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
We have that here?
Speaker 1 (25:50):
We need that level of service here, And I think
they got wheels turning.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
All over the place. Now.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
One of the interesting things is having since learned only
in the last six or seven in years about freedom
house ambulance from back from from your home area, and
learning how how they really did so much to define
what paramedic care is when it was so new and
when the idea was so new and in the immense
(26:17):
amount of work and lasting legacy, whether we know them
by name or not, that they introduced, and then learning
that emergency kind of not that they weren't developing things
on their own, emergency is what brought that concept to
public consciousness on a on a national level, and I
think did a tremendous amount to inspire developing those types
(26:39):
of programs across the nation. And that's I mean, that's
that's what you're getting at, Is that correct? Is what
was that impact on the on the nation and on
the paramedic level career, on the profession.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah, I definitely think.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
So I'm with Jeff Hammerstein, who is the author. Hi,
I'm a paramedic. It's now available, and we'll talk about
where that's available and how you can get this. Uh
river to about EMS and paramedic and a little bit
about Jeff. Just a little bit about Jeff in there.
I guess, was there ever a moment that you said, well,
(27:10):
I can't do this, I want to leave EMS? And
if there was, what brought.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
You back as far as being able to do the job.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
There was never a time where I thought I can't
do this, I'm going to go do something else. If
I ever questioned that it was it was on the
way to that first call. Plenty of times where I
challenged my own abilities.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Am I really?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
And that's getting later into the more experienced years and
being a field training officer, you know, Am I aligned
to myself?
Speaker 3 (27:38):
Just?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Am I bullet jump thinking that I'm good at being
a paramedic and that I should be the one teaching
people And just doubts like that along the way, thoughts
that crossed my mind, trying to be honest enough with
myself to challenge my own notions in that regard, But
never at a point where I thought never was the answer
to the question, No, I should and be doing this.
(28:01):
I have the confidence. Yeah, I know what I'm talking about.
There are people who are way better at breast sounds
than I am. I struggle with breast sounds. I struggle
with it and doubted myself left and right, and then
I see partners listen, listen, listen and just nail it
and start down a treatment path that seemed just right
to me, and.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Then not me not having the confidence in the same thing.
But you know, there's different things like that.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
But I also think we should be challenging ourselves on
that constantly. We should be making sure we're serving well.
My test, and I'm sure other people do this too.
My litmus test throughout my career was always, did this
person have as good a shot at a good outcome
(28:46):
with me there as they would with another paramedic. And
you have to challenge that by making sure you're staying
current on continuing education, that you're paying attention, that you're
not just phoning it in on calls, that you're giving
your best paramedic self time after time, as utterly exhausting
as it becomes, and not expecting perfection because we're so
(29:10):
far from it that on those serious calls where what
you do and don't do matters, would this person have
been better off?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Did they have as good as shot by my hand?
And sometimes the answer is now, I should have done
this person better. And what do you do about that?
You go figure out what that thing is and you
get better at that thing and try to move forward.
And I don't want to try to sound too noble.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Because it's far from perfect, but I think that's what
we should expect of ourselves.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Your writing is very personal. How did it feel to
put these stories to paper and then get it published?
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Ridiculously vulnerable? I mean, it's crazy. And where it really
hit was just what was it? I guess it was Maystimes.
I'm where I saw the live link on Amazon and
Barnes and Noble, and I've since seen it in at
(30:08):
least eight different languages, at least, you know, in Germany and.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
France and just all these different places.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, the all the the only thing in English
is the description of the book, because.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
That's just part of the distribution package.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
I mean, if it's on any one website, it's worldwide
by definition.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
But still to see in all these places and then
I remember stopping thinking.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Oh my god, what have I done.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
I mean, it's like standing out there naked in the
middle of the highway saying I've said all this stuff
that's open for anybody in the world to see. Not
that I have any kind of illusions about how many
people will.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Ever see or read this whatever. It's not that. It's
just that if something is public, it's public, period, and
it can go anywhere and anybody can take anything.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And it's also probably insane vain is what we talk about.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Am I the right paramedic?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
There's some imposter syndrome on writing this much and putting
it out there, and then are people going to read
and say, what is this dude writing for? You know,
keep it to yourself or something. But I knew I
wanted to write it once I started. As my wife
that told me, you're going to do this.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
We're always listening to our wives, Yes we do, so.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yeah, definitely. In fact, I don't. Yeah, she said, dude,
write a book. You go to write a book. This
is what you're doing. And so it felt pretentious to
me to say, oh, I'm writing a book. I'm an author,
I'm writing a book. I didn't want to say that.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
So I wrote the first story that first day as
more like, I'm just going to write this like a
journal entry and we'll just see where it goes from there.
So I wrote that, and I thought, well, all right, Well,
so the next thing I would say is I would
talk about when I was a kid, and YadA, YadA, YadA,
and then well, I guess I got to write. Well,
then then we came here and I took you and
t class and off. So that's how the book came
to be. It's her fault, and I thank your every
(31:56):
moment for it.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
Now you go, but.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, it's it's incredibly vulnerable feeling. But but the truth
is I feel really good about that because I believe.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
And on time. Is what I said earlier.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
It's not about me, it's about us, and and it's
a it's a it's a thank you to the EMS
profession for what it has been for me, for taking
that scared little kid and turning that kid into a confident,
capable adult who took care of people under dire circumstances.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
That's the gift of a life.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Then the you know, the like talking about our wives
and kids and family and and those things that are
truly what you what I mean, that's why I went
to work is to take care of my family and
be that. But what Ems has done for me I
couldn't have been proud of in the smith the world.
And I think a lot of people this this information, information,
(32:52):
this story would resonate with and they could see themselves
in it a lot. And I also think of it
in terms of, you know, if there are spouses, family
members of responders, it's my hope that it would give
them an avenue to see a little bit more about
what we really face and go through, because you know,
we get we get called heroes all the time, which is.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Silly in a lot of cases.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Sure we've all done heroic things, but we'russell doing a
job that's no more or less essential than an awful
lot of.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Jobs that get done. But we get we get.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Public praise and family praise, and the heroes are out
there and waving, you know, huh give put them in
a parade and all this stuff, and it's those family
members that are left at home hour after hour, shift
after shift. You know, my wife ten nights a week
raising two young kids on her own. You know, if
there's a thunderstorm or a funny sound or all these things.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
That frighten people or whatever. I'm out there.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Saving the world quote unquote, and she's at home raising
two kids, and that such a backbone thing.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
And I think that's an important part for all.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Of us to realize and acknowledge and praise, but also
lets those family members get a peek on what was
happening in all those hours that we were just gone
away not at home.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
If you could go back to talk to your young self,
what advice would you give after everything you've been through,
What advice would you give to your young self before
stepping into that ambulance?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
A couple of things and answering true to your question,
I would also apply it to others who are getting
into ems.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
First of all, Number one, you're.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Go being all right just through your thing, study hard,
take that seriously. Pay attention is exhausted as we get
don't let that become too much of our outer self.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Now. I have plenty of times.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
You can ask any of my partners through the nineties,
I got tired, exhausted, short tempered. I don't I don't
think I was ever mean to anybody, but I was
probably less giving than I could have been in a
lot of cases when we were that exhausted. But I
think part of it in this, I really mean knew people,
newer people getting into EMS, is we have to understand
(35:18):
that this as a career.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Or long term EMS nine to one one response is not.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
The dramatic, flashy television show or recruitment brochure that recruitment
would have us believe. The big dramatic calls that happened
that require us to be at our very best, where we.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Use skills, where we have technical imperative, where.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
We want to get medications and do these these dramatic procedures.
Those calls happen, but there they are comparatively few and
far between.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Like any job, there's the monotony, there's the.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Over and over and over again, where the person we're
responding to we're not going to make or break their life.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
We're not going to make or break their health care.
But that's an awfully big part of it.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
With that in mind, my advice to the you know,
I hope I'm not getting ahead of you, but my
advice to the to the even the experienced responders, is
is not to let yourself get caught up in or
fall into the abyss of deciding who does and doesn't
deserve your care. I understand that we get frustrated with
(36:27):
people calling nine one one that we that we wouldn't
have called nine one one for.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
It's a massive, complex, multi layered issue.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
And the thing is none of us are going to
solve that from the back of an ambulance. There are
so many people who have been so inclined to lecture
a patient on when they should and shouldn't be calling,
and making them feel terrible for having called. And there's
four cards in the driveway, and we're not all these things.
So those are big, complex issues, but their national healthcare
(37:02):
system issues that you're not going to solve as an individual.
So if and I'm not the one to solve, I
don't know how to solve that. I'm not smart enough
to solve that.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
I don't have the.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Mindset to affect institutional operational change to deal with any
of that. So that's not where my lady is and
I'm not going anywhere near there. If that's if that's
where it is for you, then get some smart folks
together and start working on it. For me, the advice is,
if you can't do that, then then come to terms
(37:33):
with it. Yes, they're going to call nine one one,
whether you think they should or not. The best thing
you can do for yourself is to come to terms
with that and go serve that person.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
Pull up.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
That may be the only time this week that anybody
has treated them like they matter one way or the other.
So you've got to pull some type of reward in
ems from the human connection and interaction in human service.
Because if you're just waiting on how cool it is
to innovate and give, well, I don't want to say
(38:07):
lighter king, some other medication for telling.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Them back in the older what you're hanging your hat.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
On for job satisfaction, You're not gonna be well served.
You've got to pull something bigger, more human service oriented
than just this.
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Cool skill you did. And that's what I would tell
my younger self.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Hi, I'm a Paramedic. Is available now, Jeff? How can
people get this book?
Speaker 1 (38:33):
It's simple in our modern world probably just about anywhere
you buy books online, so Amazon, Barnes and Noble online.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
And I mean if you can get to those, you
can get the book.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
It's the release state is August first, and so I'm
really looking forward to that coming out and seeing what happens.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
It is truly my.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Hope that people in our business and people just curious
can find a lot.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Of themselves in this story about this kid who became
a paramedic.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
Jeff, it's been an honor to have you back on
the podcast, work with you and bring your voice back
to this space. To everyone listening, thanks for joining and
coming along on this journey.
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Thank you, Steve, it's been a pleasure.
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