47. Pop Culture

It's all about the popular culture in Star Trek innit.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Now establishing data link accessing. Helloand welcome to episode number forty seven of
Make It So. I'm Mike Dawsonand Michael's Story again. Michael's story is
here again again. We have noRichard Smith. You know, I'll pop
in every now and then you popin. You my Richard Smith's substitute for
the next, for this, forthis week and last week. Cheers.

(00:23):
Um, you look a lot likehim in fact, so it got a
hold. Oh yeah, and Idon't know, you share certain character traits,
i'd say, and which ones?Um, well, I don't want
really want to go into that start. Yeah, So that's that's good.

(00:46):
And without further ado, we aretalking about twenty fourth century slash twenty third
century slash twenty second century pop culture, as in the pop culture that was
around or is around in enterprise,he's best known Next Voyager and original series
eras and how that really affects theculture and what kind of what what what.

(01:11):
It's a bit lame, really,isn't it. So we're going to
talk about that one of the sortof sadder aspects of Star Trek. Unfortunately,
it's good, it's good as goodbits, but not many, not
many, So We're going to besearching with a spotlight in the dark for
a small glimmer of hope, andI'm sure we'll find something here. This

(01:32):
is going to be a bit ofa bitchy one for so for those of
you who don't like it, whenwe slack star trek off, then you
should probably go away. But ifyou do like it, then hey,
this is one of the ones foryou. But we don't do this every
week. You know, we don'tdo this every week. We love this
show. It's going to be abalance. We're going to look at it.
First of all. We should reallysort of say that in terms of

(01:53):
a balanced view, given that thisshow creates such a dynamic and interesting world
where alien races and ships and technologyand philosophies and theologies, and philosophies and
theologies well there's a few, butnot for the span that I'm being positive.

(02:15):
You've got time to slag it offlater, Michael, I'm being positive
right now. Okay, So wereyou will? Thank you? So,
yeah, it creates a lot ofthings and for us to demand nay,
no, that for us to expectthat the show would also be able to

(02:36):
produce a comparable popular culture around thismodern world that they've created, may have
been asking a little bit too muchfrom our star Trek creators may have been
sort of asking to push their creativeboundaries maybe a tad too far, given
all of the other things that theyhave to concentrate on. Are we really

(03:00):
that bothered about it? Yeah?No, we're not that bothered about it.
No we're not. We're not,But we're going to slag it off
anywhere. How many series have theymade and how little leftort have they put
in? This is true? Now, first series, the main thing that
comes to mind, free dimensional chess. No no, no. I was
thinking for the first series it wasgoing to bars where odd colored women dance

(03:23):
around poles that tends, or incages or in all sorts of things which
never got called strip strips dancing clubs. Then they're never actually in strip clubs
because they never take any clothes off. So it's it's almost like a slightly
more prudish version of a strip club. But it's like an NBC strip club.
It's you know, you obviously thegood stuff you're gonna have to straddle
over the HBO, but for themoment, you're stuck on network, so

(03:46):
you're going to not see any tips. You're just going to see women in
bras. Yeah. Yeah, butat the same time you're his new Kirk
got laid, So that's true.But if you were a child, you
didn't know that. You just sawthem embracing kissing. Oh, they were
just kissing like you and mum dothat sort of thing. Kissed your mum,
No um anyway, bad Joe.So you've got that. There's that

(04:09):
side of things. The odd bitof music gets played in the background.
It's it's normally jarring and simplistic.And it's the original series we're talking about
here, right, I'm not talkingabout the soundtrack. I'm talking about,
you know, the simplistic as well. I don't know. Some bits are
quite nice. That the old famousbattle was that's totally yeah, just pierced

(04:32):
every ear and one hundred miles withthat whistle. So yeah, there's yeah,
there's the yeah, the music scrubkid, Yeah suppose, yeah,
there's not but not the actual butthe digetic music, the music within the
stories. The word I love thatword. Someone will tell me I'm getting
it wrong. But the but anyway, apparently proused to spell is pronounced proust

(04:58):
i don't know, so Jinny whocares anyway, So the rest of it,
Okay, I didn't really get alot of other culture that, right,
popular I mean, right, Okay, there's the first things. First
is that they never did. They'requite clever. They're quite clever in the

(05:18):
fact that if they were to domovies now, they phased out movies in
Star Trek up until the recent series, up until Enterprise, and that there
wasn't movies. Movies didn't happen likethen, they said, when TV didn't
happen anymore, there was no suchthing as television and you know that,
which they make abundantly clear in theepisode. And next year was getting confused

(05:42):
their movies as an art form withinStar Trek right within No, not the
movies of Star Trek, the movieswithin Star Trek. So there's no you
know, there's no such thing asmovies anymore. No one makes them,
and no one watches television. Andwent, yeah, there's there's three people
from the twentieth century up on NextGen in that episode, and Data says,
yeah, TV was abolished over threehundred years ago or whatever he says,

(06:05):
and yeah, and that's that,and he sort of things yourself really
really why and how and how cometheater isn't dead? And yet movies are
his theater dead? No, becausefit is not dead, and they do
plays all the time. Data doeshis plays and stuff in next gen and

(06:28):
of course, and there's the oldcling on operas and cling on operas and
stuff like that, you know,and what it's it's not only a human
culture abolished TV and television networks,but all other alien cultures. I think
there's a TV network in Star Trekfive at one point, but that's like
the only example of it, andlike other you know, And they mentioned
in Star Trek six the news itwas on the news that Kirk and McCoy

(06:48):
had been taken to rur Pen failwas a bit of a different thing,
which is a different thing that's stillpopular culture. It's still. Yeah,
it's a nice glimmer of something humanin the in the world that seems little
sanitizer. That was one of thethings that Babylon five did better. Do
you remember the I s DN orwhatever the network the Interstellar Interstellar Network News

(07:10):
or something like that. Yeah,the which was batinly CNN, but yeah,
it did it better as than itwas there. It didn't do it
better nets saying it was really goodat Babylon five was really good. When
the army storms in and takers outof the series four, I believe the
network was. Yeah, the networkgets taken over by the military and everything

(07:31):
during the coup. In any way, different show, but it was highly
different. But a very very goodpoint for Babylon five above Star Trek is
the fact that they actually incorporated that. And yeah, like, like I
said, theater didn't die, Sohow come television has? How come film
has? That doesn't make sense.Radio is not dead. You know,
radio is not going to die.In fact, radio is more popular than

(07:53):
every because there's nothing on TV.So there's you know, it's not gonna
sital died. These mediums are withone. These mediums aren't going to die.
That's the thing. But then theysaid in and then it goes into
enterprise and they change that because there'sthe Academy Awards. Get mentioned movie night
where they're all watching films. Atone point there's the Captain of the Other

(08:15):
shift the second way No no,no, no, because they're talking about
the Academy Awards that year and saying, oh, another World War three epic
one best Picture and stuff like that, there's mention of it, then you
never see them. Now, thisis cunning because if you show movies in
next gen that is supposed to havebeen made in the twenty fourth century,
then they've automatically got to look moreadvanced and better than movies that are being

(08:41):
made today, which is your problem. Music's not so tricky, but movies.
Yeah, that's why it was alwaysold movies. But what would be
wrong with them watching like, Idon't know, only for Weapon two or
something like that. You know,what would be wrong with having them watching
a fairly recent film in that alwaysgrated me that Rycher would always place and
jazz, you know, I mean, it always always grated me that it

(09:03):
was like, why don't you giveus some really interesting musical genre in the
future. Go on, give somereal noise, some real horrific sounds that
they're into that we're not, youknow, go crazy with it. But
you always, you know, itwas always kind of well, like my
mid fifties jazz. Yeah, youknow, it's it's like the guy from
First Contact that likes is rock androll. It's a bit lame and the

(09:24):
only other real musics you've got otherthan background music in bars. In generations,
you've got the odd few sort ofodd sounding kind of chiming. I
recall a few parties I think wherethey had strange things with chiming bells and
things like that. That was quitean interesting one, but generally is pretty
lame in people's interests in music andthings like that. However, I think

(09:50):
the one thing just touching on that, you know, obviously bars. The
one thing that I think they dodo well in star Trek, and they've
done well since the beginning, isdrinking, you know. I mean,
if we're to take into account thatmost people in Starfleet are lightweights, yes,
if that's to be taken into account, they do it well because Klingons
from the very first series have beendrinking a lot. I don't know whether

(10:11):
it was called blood wine back there, but back then. But you know,
you've got quarks, which is youknow, as you said, Babylon
five did it very well because it'sa space station. It has the day
to day life coming on a bitmore, which is why they did that
with Deep Space nine. I thinkbecause it has the day to day lives
a little more, you know thanso you can have that popular culture thing

(10:33):
in a bit more. And Iknow the bars aren't popular culture, but
it is an element of it,you know, this whole it's a part
of culture that people go to abar to chat, you know, they
go to a bar to go tothe hollow suits. You know what I
mean that being used as a afun thing. I suppose is as a
logical step that they've got that formof entertainment. Perhaps that's why it died

(10:54):
out. That that would make himmore sense. It died out because people
literally could become create, they couldgo within their own film. That's true,
but then the audience still has that. I think the thing you forget
is that people generally don't. Imean, we we're sort of not just

(11:20):
say this about sounding arrogant, butwe we. You and I and most
of the people involved in its integatedlike to create stuff. And I'm sure
a lot of our listeners do aswell. And you know, George Woods
gave us our piece of music forthe end credits for this the end music
for this show. And you know, and I know for a fact,
I've I've listened to other people whofrom who listen to this show, who

(11:41):
work in the movie business in America, and stuff, and people do like
to like to create, but thevast majority of people don't, and we
sort of forget that within on asort of personal level. We forget that
in our circle of friends because mostof our circle of friends are creative people.
But most people just want to turnon the TV and watch something and
aren't really that bobbed about creating it, and not necessarily that that's going to

(12:05):
not that might have changed, Butthen there's what's to say you can't do
that in hollow sweek, what's tosay you can't be a bit roll to
watch something? And it's just morereal. Well they do, I mean
they don't create. They don't allcreate hologram and you know, holiday programs.
I mean, there's that's the sortof speciality which is sort of that's
given more time later on in DSnine and in the next gen they sort
of say, oh, well thisguy can program hollow Sweet programs and stuff

(12:28):
like that and yeah and everything,and you know, that's a useful skill
as an entertainer to have. Sostill it's all skill based. Actually,
yeah, forget my previous point.It's still skill based. You can't just
go in and create your own programyou've got to you know, you can
go and have a pre preset programwhich has been made, but you still
effectively play a part within it iswhat I meant. But I mean,

(12:50):
I mean, that's the that's thething. Yeah, as you say,
it's it's not the same thing asTV. And yeah, you can just
sit back and and then it washover you, I suppose. But then
you know, I mean, well, another thing they did actually do well,
which is completely unintentional but inevitable.It's fashions. Yeah, because you
know, we've obviously you've got Garrickat the end in Deep Space nine and

(13:13):
things like that. But the fashions, with the uniforms and with different things
that people are wearing in space changewith the fashions. But because they can
never make them look like modern dayfashions, effectively, they have their own
tangent, and more so towards thelater series. Is series is the later
series because they've got you know,all the history of what's been Star Star

(13:37):
Trek fashion from the beginning, fromthe wonderful coats that McCoy used to wear
in like the which one is itis it? Roth of Krnoy's got the
big padded one yeah, McCoy andpadded coat like Checkov's small Boy. Is
it Suli or Chekov who's wearing ScotEdwardien Boys Century? You know what I
mean? Both both things, andthen you've got the fact that Garrick makes

(14:00):
that those very kind of As youget towards the end, it will becomes
a lot plainer. But it's notmirroring fashion. It's interesting that you said
you like the fashion stuff because usuallyfuture fashions look shit. But that's the
thing, because it's you know,Star Trek itself. The original series didn't
look very good. The fashions wereall ridiculously fantastical, you know what I

(14:22):
mean, kind of understandable because abit of sixties in there. Oh of
course there was, of course therewas lots of miniskirts, Yeah, everywhere
you can see. But because they'vestarted off with a kind of more obvious
thing, and it does look prettylame, you know what I mean,
compared to other things. But thenit's evolved, and because it's evolved,
it's been given enough chance to actuallynot look that bad. And I don't

(14:43):
think it does look that bad.I don't think it looks great. They
could have gotten much better with it, But I mean, Romulans really wind
me up. They've only just startedto look good. I hated those square,
padded things. Yeah they up.I didn't mind them so much.
But then you've got to look atthe fashion of the other cultures we've said
before, and the fact that theKlingons all wear the same thing. Yeah,

(15:05):
that winds me up. Except Kardashiansall wear the same thing. Well,
no, they don't when they're notin uniform. They're not in Yeah,
I know, but you know that'swhat I mean. The uniform makes
that. That's fine. I don'tmind that. I don't mind whole people
wearing the same but no, no, no, what I mean it's kind
of the because the evolution of theKlingons has made sense. They don't look
like they did in the original series. They've still evolved as a form of

(15:28):
fashion of uniform. Yeah, hasstill evolved, as has the you know,
every other species. It's just theromulent one evolved a little slower and
looked a little rubbisher towards the end. Or they think, I mean,
yeah, fair enough, it's somebodyelse's culture and they like the shoulder pads.
But some come on, yeah,no, one's eighties is over.

(15:50):
Forget it man, So yeah,okay, fashion wise, all right,
movie wise were colored. Um.I did like what they did with Enterprise
and the uniforms and Enterprise being muchmore like, Ah, that's white.
It looks a little like an overallbecause it because it's evolved out of an
overall, you know what I mean. These are just functional things and you

(16:12):
can see where it's coming. Ithought that was really nice and that kind
of tipself. I know it's notreally popular culture, but yeah, no,
in other in other periods of ourhistory, military fashion is popular culture.
So you know, the Nazis,however nasty they were, did look
rather good. Yeah, it's unfortunate, isn't it. We had our mucky
brown coats and they had their longleather jackets, the bastards. Unfortunately you

(16:36):
were evil Yeapoleonic. Here everyone lookedrather dandy, and yeah, we all
had our big red coats hussars witha bushy hats, unless you were the
Sharps Regiment and then you got nicedark green ones. Yeah, that did
look rather cool. They did lookbecause they were Irish and Irish regiment,
so no, it wasn't Irish,it was no, no, it wasn't.

(16:57):
But it had Irish in the regiment, didn't I think? Yeah,
there were, Yeah, there wereIrish in the regiment because it was it
was chosen men, wasn't it.Yeah. I can't remember the thing.
I haven't been watching them as they'vebeen repeated. No, yeah, there
were. They were chosen men.So they were complete tangent. What's the
point? Never mind? It's goodsharp and has a lot of a lot

(17:17):
of very famous actors in it.When you watch it back and you just
think, oh god, Brian Coxis in it. Oh goodness, Alex
doesn't offs in it? Oh mygod, he's in it. What's Mark
Strong doing in it? And youthink fucking hell? And you know these
are major players. Now it's kindof weird anyway. Star Trek, Star
Trek, not sharp. You don'tsee much art as in painting. Well,

(17:37):
you see datas art, don't you. Data does his little his little
experiments in art, and he goesinto his expression of steria and stuff like
that, but he's basically recounting olderart forms. Yeah, and then you
get the art that's hanging on thewall, and you know, pictures of
ships and stuff like that, whichyou kind of get The sense is the
sort of saying, you know thesame sort of pictures that you get in
hotels where and cruise ships and stufflike that. You know, really bad

(18:02):
cheap art mass produced where I reckonthat one that Captain Picard's got in his
ready room with the Enterprise and thestars behind it, and you think,
oh, that's a lovely picture ofthe Enterprise, isn't it? Got another
Galaxy class starship, same picture inthe ready room. The card goes in,
what what the hell have you got? My picture phone? Got that
down to the shop discount only sixFederation credits. Yeah, you know,

(18:26):
money, money, money, Well, there's Federation credits, isn't that.
There's the which they use when they'retrading with the Ferengian stuff like that,
And sometimes it's really odd. It'snot really money, but it's weird.
Yeah, it's kind of like Castro'smoney. It's not really money. You're
working on a points system. It'sodd mine. Yeah. So you don't

(18:48):
see a lot about food. Imean, obviously you see the different cultures
food, but not popular culture.It's not an evolutionary thing. You do.
Well, it's that one meal problemas well. It's the one drink
and one meal problem. We've gotlike cling on blood wine, romulin ale,
pling on blood wine, and theyeat earth juice yea, yeah,
and gah and hasparad and canar andthen you basically got your seven or eight.

(19:14):
It's like they've sort of gone,let's make up some beverages and they've
made up six and that I'll do, yeah, And then it's sort of
like, you know, they've neverreally gone into any more depth about the
different types of meals or not theyeven had to, but just once,
have a Cadassian order something other thanthat Cudassian drink. Yeah, yeah,
have a bazure and order something differentthan that bloody pastry. Have a cling

(19:37):
on order. So I think differentthan gut or blood wine. You know.
I was want to say, ifthe fually their palettes want something slightly
different, you know, every nowand then, you can't have steak every
night. Yeah, And if theFounders ever offer you a couple of fingers
of something, then you yeah,large scotch, two fingers, No,
no, no, we'll just havethe scotch. I'll just have the scotch.

(19:59):
Take the thing out, no,take them out. Hold your fingers
are the glass Okay, I'm notdrinking that drink a bit of shape shifter
and then it goes and wraps itselfaround your heart and kills you from the
inside. They never did stuff likethat. Really wanted them to be always.
I mean it's been said before,the old shape shifter sex thing.

(20:21):
You know, Yeah, it goescrazy, it could go anywhere, any
whole fits. Yeah, but asyou say, you didn't you occasionally saw
Odo turn into it. I mean, this is deviating again from the point.
But the occasionally saw him turn intoa big eagle or something, yeah,
which again makes no sense. Yeah, why didn't you just shoot yourself
across the middle of the hallway thatyou were in and you know, smash

(20:45):
him through every single pore in hisbody your liquid whoops? Or maybe they
went with the whole terminator to can'tcreate moving parts or things or something like
that. They never actually explicitly saidthat, so there wasn't a rule.
That's the thing. They never becauseOdo was sort of learning how to do
it and everything was really good.But then they never sort of did it

(21:07):
with the shape shifters. You neverthought, like suddenly when they meet all
the change links who've been changing linksall their lives and know how to do
it, you know, you know, thought they'd be deadly, you know,
turn their arm into a razor andcut people open. They had that
one guy who beyond that, asI say, yeah, yeah, just
face shoot through though. Yeah,you know what I mean. They could
do anything almost He had the guywho turns up in season seven, who's

(21:29):
another change link who's been flung tothe corners of the galaxy, who didn't
know That was quite a good onebecause then he turns up and he turns
his arm into a sword and killsa cling on and stuff like that,
and just a little bit more creative. And you never saw the Founders do
anything like that. They kind ofjust marched around and changed into people to
do things for them. Yeah,they have people to do this sort of
thing. This is true. Theydidn't need to kill anyone. They've got

(21:52):
large armies of big guys with theirgods that not really I don't want to
get sweaty. No, they don'tlook nice when they swear to either.
Okay, do you think it's likeoil and water separates a bit? Possibly?
Books, books, right, Moby, that was it? Yeah?
You won't say, oh yeah,I'll just again, go back to one

(22:17):
thing again on music, well beforewe go onto books again cling on opera?
Isn't it the same tune? Andisn't the same tune the Deathwork Ween
by Mozart? And do tell meif I'm wrong, But it's one of
the ones around that period of Mozart. Do it's the same tune again and

(22:40):
again and again. And it's noteven cling on originally. It's like cling
on in Shakespeare. Stop nicking ourculture? Yeah, get your own?
That lied, he says in TheStar Trek six. Doesn't He says,
you haven't heard it. You haven'texperienced Shakespeare until you heard it in the
original cling On. That really confusedme when I was a child. It
was only huh, how how howcan you originally originally clear on a lot

(23:04):
of rubbish? Anyway? Yeah,Shakespeare, So I've got a Big four
Shakespeare, and then that's it,Shakespeare and Moby Dick. And then occasionally
something else pops up. Obviously againwith operas, you get them a miracle.
Um, yeah, part not parentsdepends as the other one the other

(23:26):
Gilbert Suvan Gilbert and Sullivan Gilbert.If you want the proper rhythmic time ask
a policeman. No, no,no, no, no, that's who
is that. That's George Thornby.Yeah, yeah, yes, anyway,
that the one where he's he's allabout being a navy captain and oh yeah,

(23:48):
an insurrection. That one the GilbertGilbert and Sullivan, I keep calling
him Gilbert guilt calling them Gilbert,Oh Sullivan. That's ridiculous Gilbert and Sullivan.
That pops into its opera pops intoit a bit. Yeah, early
Berlin pops into it as well.Yeah, in Nemesis Wharf drunk for some

(24:14):
reason knows it's early building. AndI don't know, you grew up on
Earth, that's all right, Yeah, I suppose in Russia though in Russia
you've got culture, got a lotof culture freezing your ass off so earlier.
I'm not going to get into thatRussian culture and the being completely a
rush ignorance of oh my ignorance ofI've watched and you have anyway not I

(24:41):
want about culture and Russian films brilliant. I wasn't think ballet at the time.
Ballet, all right, well,don't say sugar plum fairies don't so
much ballet in star Trek, dowe don't so much ballet, don't see
much interpretive dance. To be fair, I mean they're lame on most art
fronts, aren't they really. It'slike it's they get the whole. Yeah,

(25:04):
there's drinking and stuff like that,but synthehol as well. The thing
is like a Namby Pamby. Itmakes sense. You've got to suddenly you've
got to put things in. Okaythat the film problem is clear, because
you'd have to do films that lookedas if they were futuristic and have actually
been made in the twenty fifth century. But that said, I'd love to

(25:26):
see, like, you know,they could have made some really good stuff,
Like what if a Hollywood crew decidedto do a movie about the best
of both worlds mission in next Genand you could have had the crew sort
of like watching the film and likeand Patrick Stewart's saying that's not what happened
and stuff like that, and youknow, and like and I really sound

(25:51):
like that? Do I really soundlike that? Do I really sound like
that? I sound English? Andyet I'm French. Why have they got
an English accord to play me?I don't know. I don't understand this
rubbish. So there's you know,stuff like that or you know, like
I don't know, but then playingup will Riger and Dana Troy's love affair
and stuff like that, and I'msaying, that's not what happens. We
just sort of like flirts, butthe you know, and maybe something like

(26:15):
that that would have been like kindof interesting. But that sort of wouldn't
have fit with Star Trek, wouldit, because it would have been he
wouldn't fit them doing that. Imean, that would fit something more like
Babble on five, not something thatI could see working. And I thought
was really I had to think aboutthis when I was yesterday we were sitting

(26:36):
up in Andy's room just listening toreggae and Andy put on on his Apple
Mac. But you know the randomizationsort of thing where you just watched the
patterns. Yeah, and it's areally you know, it's a really good
one, sitting there staring for hours. But I just thought that bit in

(26:57):
Revenge of the Sith when they're watchinghe goes to speak to Palpatine, where
Palpatine first says about him being askedwatching the opera. Yeah, yeah,
but it's these light shows and it'sthis three D thing and I thought,
that's a really good idea, doyou know what I mean. He's almost

(27:18):
like watching a randomization on a computer. But this is it's there. It
reacts to a very very primal thingin the same way as expression is painting
does, in the way that itreacts on a This isn't even thought,
this is this color represents this,you know, well beyond that, it's
just what it makes you feel likeand you just look at this thing,

(27:38):
and I thought, that's a reallygood idea for an art form of the
future. Just a form of liquidpainting, a form of movement. That's
you know, an expression is paintinglike a film does a picture move you
know, it's it's moving pictures.Something the Star Trek Star Wars prequels got
right. Then interesting, Well,I think the thing is with that is
though, and you can sort seeit a bit more with the movies as

(28:00):
well, is the amount of timethat they've had to sort of put some
thought into it and to actually putsome thinking into it. And like it
was going back to what I wassaying about the fact that with the movies,
you'd have to make them look futuristic. With the mute music, you'd
have to come up with something newand original in a music form, which
would then require some sort of explanationas to how that became and would have

(28:23):
to come up with some sort ofinvention to make it not crap. Whereas
you know, it's easy to putclassical music into something, and it's easy
to put into some random jazz musicinto into star trek and just say it's
it's old and they listen to oldme then at the same time, rather
than have to actually create something thatis of the twenty fourth But they've been

(28:44):
doing it a long time. Theyhave been doing it a long time.
But once you set a rule,and once you said, I mean they
broke it with enterprise into a certainextent by by making that changing that precedent
that there was actually TV in filmand stuff like that. But once you
set that in that era, thenit's pretty hard to sort of get you
get around it somehow and make it. Then, you know what I mean,

(29:07):
you hit the right thing you've gotagain, going back to the obvious
comparison, the Moss Eyes, theCharleston, the yeah, you know,
I mean that doesn't sound like itdoes sound like a Charleston, but it
also doesn't sound they've had more timeto think about they have, but then
no, they haven't think about itbetween him writing it and him filming that

(29:30):
compared to not necessarily I think they'vehad to ding about it, but they've
had more people to actually deal withthat and stuff. Yeah, but we're
not talking to it is. Ifit's the beginning, I'm talking about it
now, they could, they couldreally start changing the precedent in better ways.
They could. They can experiment abit more, you know what I
mean. I mean they did wellwith Deep Space nine because they did do

(29:51):
stuff like that a bit more becausethey had Garrick as a tailor and because
they you know, I mean,it's not much, but it's a little
bit more. Writing happens, newshappen. There's I forgot about what's his
name, Jake Cisco. Yeah,of course he really wants to be a
reporter and stuff like that. Soit's like, um, yeah, there
is an element of that there,but touches on it ever so lightly.

(30:12):
Yeah, it's not the main focuseither, so it can be forgiven for
this. Oh I forgot another one, of course. Food. What we
were talking about before you set nails, You've got the Cisco father I can't
remember his name is I don't knowhis dad. Yeah, which is which
is unrealistic because it wasn't New Orleans. Yeah, which doesn't even exist now

(30:33):
thanks to Katrina a big wave andno support coming from the government. Um.
Yeah, anyway, we've so you'vegot that that was a really odd
one and he does a certain typeof food and he doesn't you know,
it's yeah, or maybe they've probablyraised New Orleans somewhat above sea level.

(30:56):
Maybe you know, maybe it's likeAtlantis. Maybe the losses in New Orleans.
That's a horrible part in Family Guy. But anyway, yeah, there's
that. I mean, yeah,they could do something like that. Well,
yeah, there's the kind of yeah, you get the sense of the
scenes in New Orleans in DS ninethat they've It was kind of weird because

(31:18):
it like it still felt like NewOrleans in DS nine. It was like
it was really weird. It waslike there was a little bit of touch
of futuristic stuff, but there wasalways that kind of really hot old boy.
Yeah. Yeah, it's really sortof you know, down South creole,
creole. Everywhere else is a bitof Spanish, bit of English,
bit of French, bit of everything, bit of Africa, the good old
mixing all good things. They asked, fuck Cambridge though, what the hell

(31:42):
was that about? That that bitin all good Things? When Cambridge comes
up on the shore and it's likethere's one church surrounded by modern buildings and
shuttles going around and like one oldCambridge building? What no charge? Not
hoping now they'll do that, beforethey do that to you, there's no,

(32:05):
yeah, there's no modern buildings.It's still old buildings. Yeah,
Central Cambridge, Central Oxford. It'snot gonna I'm not going to change,
no, But yeah, no,that's that's rubbish. But yeah, yeah,
it did still feel like New Orleans, which is fair. But then
I suppose that's because it's an AmericanTV show. They're not going to have
the same sort of respect for theplace in another country. They're going to

(32:29):
just kind of go. It wasnot necessarily respect. But maybe it's just
not an understanding of how that's kindof yeah. I mean it had they
said like Bradford or something and thenput like all ye old, you know,
like proper kind of Yorkshire mills andthings like that, and you'd have
been a like, well, it'snot like you know, that's going to
change. It's just a place likeCambridge obviously is not going to change because

(32:50):
it's going to be kept as itwas when it was all built. Yeah,
unless it gets blown up, youknow. Yeah, but that's the
only sort of way it's. Yeah, that's gonna change. Like Westminster,
that's you know, Big Ben,never gonna get never going to change.
Yeah, never going to change atall, un less guy Thoughts comes back
and blows it up. But that'sI think it'll probably be someone else.

(33:12):
It'll probably be someone else. Imight pretend, but I might pretend,
we might like pretend. I don'tknow. Yeah, Vendetta, isn't it.
Yeah. Yeah, So generally prettyrubbish all around. This is always
going to be a difficult one becauseof that problem, because like yeah,
because there's no focus, because there'sno attention put into it. But little

(33:34):
things like the news service would havehelped, like the you know, and
that's something that could have easily beenworked in, and it could have been
worked in. I don't necessarily agreewith having say, a news service on
a on a starfleet ship. That'sa bit I mean, maybe more so
in next generation. Maybe I'm notin Voyager and not in star Trek the
original series because it's less of aSpace nine though. I really, well

(34:00):
that's completely valid as his next chenbecause it's got a large family sort of
you know, it had a crashfor God's sake. Yeah, you know
what I mean. It's like fairenough Tellytubbies on TV for the kids and
stuff, you know, stuff likethat. What are the children doing these
days? Why aren't they at homeplaying video games? What are they doing
in the twenty fourth century running aroundpoint having fun outside? What do the

(34:22):
kids do? We're not on theenterprise. I mean, that's the thing.
What do the kids do? Theysit in the control seat, which
is horrendous, but yeah, no, basically it's it's it's just one of
those things. You don't get tosee this element of family life almost Who

(34:42):
did do that? Well, Imean family life really because it is a
form of pop culture. M Jakeand Benjamin probably I mean the closest sort
of, but there was there wasa different one because there's was discombobulated like
Jake and Cisco, and Jake hadto sort of work out what Jake was

(35:04):
going to do in in Deep Spacenine because it wasn't a family position to
be put into and it was anodd place to take your son and had
to watch out for him and everythingelse, so that was slightly different.
They kind of cheated their way,not cheating their way around it, but
they didn't have to really address thatbecause there were other issues in the way.
It was a nice, nice onewith Keiko and Lieutenant Brian Kenko and

(35:25):
Brian Kenko and what's her name,Lieutenant Torres and what's his name, Paris.
Yeah, he's an interesting character developmentas well, because he started offering
a kind of I'm going to belike Ryker, I'm a bit dangerous,
and then he became really kind offat and kind of bland, and that's
not an interesting character. No,no, no, taking a character and

(35:45):
making him boring, No, no, no, I don't mean blanding a
kind of Henry Kim way blanding,a kind of Harry Harry Kim Henry.
Yeah, I can't speak to no, I'm so sorry. I'm not normine.
I can't even don't worry about it. Yeah, but not in that
as in his personality, as inhe became a boring person, but not
a boring character as in it wasn'tbecause he just became a dull character is

(36:08):
because as important your character development,take someone and then turn him into someone
dull, like you need to sowell, you know they had the lynchpins
seven or nine. Yeah, thedoctor, just the Doctor No. Seven

(36:29):
or nine was nice. God,so overrated. Okay, I think we're
going to be struggling to continue withthis one. I'm very sorry we sort
of scraped the bottom of the galacticbarrel and come up Trump's So yeah,
I hope you like the show.Hopefully Rich will be back next week and
maybe you'll be back again. Maybewe'll do it three nights if you want

(36:51):
to, Michael, you don't haveto. If you like the sound of
Michael Story's voice, and some ofthe ladies do, then you can also
hear them on albums. You shouldhear. She's very popular, very popular.
You can also listen to other showscalled movies. You should see Definitive
Word ment of the House. Wecan watch us or do you think that's
just bokes? And you can listento all of them for free, for

(37:13):
free, And you can read ourblogs and stuff like that, and get
on the forum and make show suggestionsand do wonderful things for free. All
on the SIDEC it's seventhly electricity,the internet, connection, the band.
But we don't profit from we don'tprofit from We're not the bad guys.
No, but yes you can.You can. You can do all of

(37:35):
those things. And if you reallydo like us and you want to support
us financially as well as emotionally,then you can either a write us a
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can possibly donate some money to simplyit's indicate it. If you want,
you don't have to. I'm notputting any pressure on you. Others in
the network will do that, butI'm not. I'm nice. I'm saying,

(37:57):
if you want to, if youif you have a spare two quid
a month, I know that's hardto come by, but if you,
if you do, and if yougring them a badge, no one,
because the badge is going to costabout two quarter to make you get a
good one, you know, safetypin and a cardboard sort of thing.
But you don't get a badge.You don't get a badge. Michae.
Well, if you get effort,no, you don't get it back.
If you put the eye and youdon't get badge, right, don't get

(38:19):
bad you give me no quid,I'll give you. No, you don't
get badge, I'll give you.Don't get badge, give me all.
If you give Michael two quid,then you get badge. I don't get
badge from me because I don't havethe time to make them. But if
you do. If you like todonate money, then please do that would
be lovely. If not, don'tworry about it. So we will see
you next week hopefully. Yeah man, okay, how do you how do you