Ep. 150 - The 'FBI Transparency, Searchers and Entertainment AI' Edition

The 'FBI Transparency, Searchers and Entertainment AI' Edition

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
This is the FCB Podcast Network.Okay, hey, y'all, welcome back

(00:26):
to the episode. It was like, yay, I have to concentrate on
my carreer. I connected with myfriend who has been on the show before,
David vining Um. He is aCharleston, South Carolina based writer and
he has a new book out,So we talk a little bit about the

(00:49):
book. Um. And the lasttime he was on, we discussed some
john Ford films, and so thistime we both rewatched The Searchers and we
talk a great deal about that filmand sort of the the heyday of kind
of the John Wayne Um era ofHollywood, which I know is sort of

(01:11):
sort of an interesting debate right now. That's popping up, Um, is
have we moved so far away fromthe values of that era that we've now?
I mean, if you look atHollywood, they can't seem to come
up with anything new. There's alsoa writer's strike, um, but I
sort of wonder if the strike isn'tsort of hiding the fact that there there's

(01:34):
a real dearth of talent in thewriting, uh you know, um Field
basically when it comes to entertainment.Now, that may be unfair, that
may be a little bit ungracious tosay, um, but we just definitely
we have seen over the last severalyears, the tendency to remake movies,

(01:56):
the tendency to um, you know, uh makes equals the MCU universe.
I mean, you know, thecomic books that's already written. I know
that they do have writers that comein and adapt those things. But real
creative, interesting filmmaking seems to beMaybe it's because of streaming. I don't

(02:17):
know. There's some really interesting stuffon streaming. There's a lot of garbage
too. So anyway, we discusssome of these things in this interview today.
But before I just let the showbecome that interview, I recorded it
a couple of days ago. Idid want to talk a little bit about
politics, very very briefly. Thissituation with the FBI, you know,

(02:43):
the debt ceiling. I could gointo all of that. I actually tend
to think that it's better for conservativesthan a lot of my conservative friends think
it is. I think punting totwenty twenty five kind of signals that McCarthy
expects there to be a conservative presidentin office soon. I could be wrong
about that, but I don't knowthat this is a win for progressives.

(03:06):
I do understand the concerns of otherconservatives, particularly holding onto the COVID as
the base, the COVID spending asthe base. But I also sort of
understand that it's almost like this feelsa lot to me like what McConnell did
by not giving Merrick Garland a Scotushearing. He punted and it was a

(03:30):
huge political risk. I feel likethat's what's happening with the debt ceiling deal
as well. So in some waysit's not a one to one comparison.
So I could talk about that,but I don't know. It doesn't interest
me as much as what's happening withthe FBI refusing to turn over Christopher Ray

(03:51):
apparently has documents related to a whistleblowersassertion that the current sitting president of the
United States of America was essentially onthe take when he was the vice president.
That is something that just every timea new thing leaks out about the

(04:12):
Biden administration, I am absolutely flummixedand shocked that these stories are not covered
everywhere. I mean, I almostfeel like the reason that they're not,
I mean, we know that thepress is pretty left leaning, so they're
protecting their guy. It's kind ofsimple. But they're not a total monolith,

(04:35):
but they're pretty close. But Ialso think and I do see some
reporting now, because it's gotten sobad they have to report on it.
I do, so I see someof it now, But I also kind
of get the impression. And thisis something that I think Hillary did a
lot, and it's something that theprogressive left does a lot, this victim

(04:58):
thing that they do. Biden isand firm, Biden is old, Biden
is falling down on stage. Allof those things are true, and it
creates an unwillingness to kind of goafter the guy for his malfeasance. That's
both reassuring in some ways in termsof the culture, the character of our
culture, but it's also a difficultybecause what's coming out about this kind of

(05:24):
corruption that's in the background of,you know, essentially Biden's entire political career.
It's so bad. It makes Watergatelook like, you know, somebody
forgot to sign a form and sentit to the irs like it's it's so
bad. So it's going to bereally interesting to see how all of this

(05:46):
plays out. I know that rayis very likely they're redacting it. I
think I did read a report tothat effect. Ray is an interesting character.
A lot of people hate him,some people understand him. I kind
of get where he's coming from.Although you know, I do think that
the agency, the FBI agency,the one he heads up. I know
he has a responsibility to protect itand try to win Americans trust back for

(06:11):
the agency. That's a very tallorder at this point, and you know,
it's there's there's a part of methat just thinks that the agency has
gone so far into the bad applebarrel that you might just have to kind
of, you know, burn it, salt the earth and start over.
So all of this, all ofthese things are just playing out in the

(06:34):
background, you know, right now. So this interview is a nice break
from all of those things. AndI'm actually set to go on vacation next
week anyway, so it's not abad time for me to just kind of
turn it over to a little bitof a more lighthearted conversation on a very
great movie called The Searchers. Butthe next time I record, I do
want to review ted Lasso at all, the whole thing, the entire hires

(07:00):
three seasons. I really enjoyed theshow, and I've gotten a brand new
appreciation for Jason Sadakis and some ofthe others involved, So i'll review that
next time, and hopefully it won'tbe this long in between podcasts. I've
just been extraordinarily busy, so that'swhere this one's coming kind of late.
And I also want to talk aboutAI and how it's affecting the entertainment industry,

(07:21):
and it is. There's a lotof talk about it in all industries,
but in entertainment it's actually wrapped upinto the writer strike a bit.
So at some later date, whenthat starts to flesh itself out a little
bit, we'll talk about that onthis show as well. But for now,
I'm going to turn this show overto an interview I conducted a few

(07:43):
days ago with my friend David Vining. He writes some film reviews based in
Charleston, South Carolina, and wetalk about one of the greats of cinema,
The Searchers, with John Wayne Enjoy. And because I won't close the
show out saying this, We're justgonna let the show end. Be kind
to each other, stay strong,be kind to yourself. We will talk

(08:05):
again in a few weeks, allright, So joining me today is a
guest that we have had before.I very rarely have guests on this show.
I'm mostly just you know, jabberand hear myself talk. So it's
really nice to have a guest,especially when that we've had on before.

(08:26):
His name is David Vining. Hedoes some film reviewing, and he also
has been fairly prolific, I thinkat writing a couple of the books.
I'm not sure if he's self publishingthose. We'll get the answers from him
in a second. But he's gota new one out and it is called
Colonial Nightmare, and I'm going tolet him tell you what that's about,

(08:46):
but if you read the description atAmazon, it is such an interesting mystery.
So we're also going to have alittle chat because the last time he
was on, we did a lotof talking about john Ford we are we
both just rewatched The Searchers, sowe're gonna have a little chat about that,
which I think is an actual actuallykind of fits nicely with the book

(09:09):
that he's written. So David umstill based in Charleston, South Carolina.
David Vining, welcome back to theshow. Hi, how are yea?
Thank you? Nice to be back, great, great, Okay, So
which do you want to talk aboutfirst? You want to talk about The
Searchers or you want to talk aboutyour new book. We can start with
the Searchers. Okay, okay,Well I want to say to start.

(09:31):
Recently, I was watching a clipof Like Joy Read at MSNBC, and
she was talking about the pushback againstsome of the more I don't know,
uh, sort of activists sentimentalities thathave invaded entertainment and there's been some pushback.
We're seeing that same pushback now inbig business like Bloodlight and Target in

(09:56):
places like that. And she madethe comment that the wright wants to take
us back to the John Wayne eraof entertainment, and so The Searchers is,
of course one of John Wayne's bestfilms. So I just wanted to
start with that and kind of turnit over to you and ask you what

(10:16):
you think of a statement like that, and tell me, tell me what
you think of The Searchers. Generally, I wouldn't mind having John Ford come
back from the dead to make moremovies. It's pretty it's pretty good at
it. But I mean, thethe the irony of all of that is,

(10:37):
um, you know, you justkind of taking like the John Ford
mold of a movie, John WayneFord mold of a movie. You know,
you have this idea that gets harpedon now about you know, the
John Wayne type character is our protagonistsand the Indian. It's usually the Indian
is the other. And if youactually go through all of these movies,

(11:01):
the Indian is very rarely just likethis uniform bad guy they are and other
they are different. They are separate, but they're very rarely like really bad.
It's just they kind of have theirthere's a separation between them. There's
a conscious cultural separation as presented,which you know kind of reflects reality.

(11:22):
There's also a lot of recognition ofdifferent tribes and stuff. It's not just
one block right, right, andso when it comes to the searchers,
you know, it's very specifics.John Wayne's character of Ethan is very animated
by hatred of one particular tribe ofIndians called the Comanche, which he always

(11:43):
calls the Commanche, which is alwaysfun to hear um. And you know,
there are small details, especially nearthe beginning, that kind of help
outline why he hates them so much. You know, because if you actually
look really closely at the gravestones atthe family ranch in the beginning, you
can see that they're marked with textssaying that they're the gravestones of his wife

(12:09):
and children, and they're marked withtexts saying that they were killed by Comanches.
So there's that. And then theComanches kill his brother, his wife,
and then steal his two nieces,um including and then killing one of
the nieces. So it's like that. It's you know, you can sit

(12:30):
back and say, you know,hating any group is bad, but then
you look at the actual specific circumstancesthat Ethan lived through. It's like he
didn't hate the Comanche after all thatthe tribe had done to him. You
know, he's he wouldn't be human. Now that's not to say that he's
like a good guy us with thata little bit. He's actually he's pretty

(12:56):
jerky too, you know, yeCherokee. And yeah, it's it's that
that's the balance there is that hehe Ethan has his reasons for hating the
Comanche, but he very much unjustlyextends that out to all Indians, and

(13:18):
that unjustness is obvious in the film. It's not just like a separate reading
because um the his nephew who ishe calls him a quarter breed. But
if I remember correctly, the actualcharacter Um says that he's one eighth right.
Um. But it's uh, thatis of course Um Martin played by

(13:41):
Jeffrey Hunter, and he it's histreatment of Martin is just really terrible.
Um. You know. You knowhe also sort of treats him like a
son. Yeah, it takes it'sthe evolution of Ethan's character throughout the film
where Martin is essentially the vehicle forEthan kind of mellowing on his overall hatred,

(14:07):
and that gets manifested through and bythe end with how he treats Um,
the Um the lost niece that hefinally picks up Debbie, where it's
like he can see you know,there's that scene about halfway through where they
come to an army base and they'relooking at the Um this the rescued white

(14:35):
women from a Comanche raid, andyou know, he's completely dismissive of them
they're not white anymore, or theircommand. You know, it's that's his
attitude. And so that is supposedto set the stage for how Ethan is
going to treat Debbie when he findsher. But you know, he grows

(14:56):
as a character. You know,it's he may still hate Scar, the
the Indian chief who did so much, and he's Scars complex as well.
I mean, I think one ofthe most interesting moments is where they go
and they first see Debbie in histent and Scar explains that he had he
scalps because his his wife, hiswife and son are sons I think were

(15:18):
killed by his two kids, histwo sons. Yeah, And so it's
you know, it's touching on thisidea of the cycle of violence that Wayne
that Ethan is kind of feeding bycontinuing um and and you know, and
it all ends, of course inthat moment where he, you know,

(15:39):
picks Debbie up and says and youknow, just decides to take her home.
You know. Um Jean Mucgoddard,the French filmmaker who died a few
months ago. Um, you know, angry communists who hated everybody and everybody
hated him. He was. Hefamously said that he forgave John Wayne everything

(16:00):
every time he watched The Surgers andwatched Ethan pick up Debbie. So I
can see, I mean, itdoes kind of it almost brings a tiered,
right. Yeah, it's it's justthat wonderfully affecting moment of just you
know, Ethan kind of getting overhis hatred to the point where he can
see Debbie as human again, right, and he kind of lived her to

(16:23):
this guy and sort of looks ather. She's not sure what's going to
happen, and he does. Itis a very it is a very strong,
powerful moment, a great moment infilm. Yeah, and you know
it's it. Yeah. I havea lot of love for a lot of
other john Ford movies. U.The last time we talked, we talked

(16:45):
about The Fugitive, which is kindof an unsung little movie. Um,
that adaptation of the Graham Green novelThe Power and the Glory, super arti
artsy fartzy stuff that john that johnFord would acca usually dabble into. But
it's just it's hard to deny thesheer craft of the filmmaking and the searchers,

(17:08):
the incredible writing, the charter developmenttoo. Yeah, the last time
as well. And his characters arealways so fascinating and great. He's a
preacher, he's also a captain ora colonel. He's also hilarious also,
you know, rough around the edges, like, he's just the writing is

(17:30):
that calcular. Yeah, I WordBond is one of those people that I
always enjoyed pointing out in old movies. I'm currently going through William Wyler's work
at the moment, and so Iwatched Dead End a couple of nights ago.
It's like, and he plays justa footman. He's in like a
handful of scenes. There's there's wordBond. He's also in like it happened

(17:52):
one night. It's just it's alwaysit's always fun to see him. But
um, yeah, it's just everythingabout The Searchers is just like perfect.
So let me let me throw thisat you. I was actually talking to
my boyfriend. This is his favoriteWestern of all time, The Searchers is,
and I was asked. I wastelling him I was going to interview
you about this, and he waslike, ah, such a great movie.

(18:15):
And I'm like, it's such ahard story and it and it it's
it's upsetting to me. And hesaid this it's really a story for men.
He was like, it's not reallya women. Women are in it,
and there are some strong female characters, but the notion and my boyfriend,
you know, it was in thearmy. He served in Iraq,

(18:37):
so he's been a soldier. He'sactually seen war, and he was like,
these are things the John Wayne characterrealizing that there's just bad things in
the world that have to be takencare of. It's very much a male
sort of, you know, approachto things. He was like, and
I understand why women don't get it. Would you agree with that? Yeah?

(19:00):
You know, that's perfectly encapsulated insomething Ethan says Early. He shows
up to the house after having beenmissing for years after the end of the
Civil War, and he still hashis sword, which he should not have
as an officer of the Confederacy.He should have given up to giving it
up to Union authorities, but heproudly holds onto it and he tells them,

(19:22):
I did not beat it into aplowshare. That's like a direct quote
which is a reference to I don'tremember who says it, but it's if
you beat your swords into plowshares,those with swords will make you plow and
so it's it's a very conscious referenceback to that idea of the world as

(19:47):
harsh. The world is filled withevil, and I can't just sit back
and not fight it, which isa very common theme through all of jum
boards work. But it's just youknow, the men of action. You
know, you just pick it upalmost kind of ran any movie at random,
and that theme is there somewhere.Well, one thing I wanted to

(20:10):
say before we talk about your book, and it's the reason I mentioned the
joy read uh sort of segment Isaw recently which just was a coincidence.
Frankly, it was before you andI spoke about actually talking about this and
she made that comment. It mayhave been an older clip. I just
recently saw it. But one thing, the reason I brought it up is
that, you know, a movielike The Searchers, particularly the part where

(20:33):
you know, he accidentally gets himselfa wife by taking by training a hat
and he she comes and she triesto you know, the squaw, the
Comanche squaw comes and tries to laydown next to him, and he basically
kicks her and she rolls down thehills. So those kinds of scenes and
movies, you know, people talka lot about how some of mel Brooks

(20:56):
films couldn't be made today because theyare dealing with sort of realities in a
funny way of life. Right theway the races interact in some in blazing
saddles. For example, some ofthese parody films that we loved growing up,
and even like the John Wayne erastuff, they couldn't A lot of

(21:18):
people say they couldn't be made today. Um, do you think that we'll
get back to a time? AndI think that's probably true, which is
why we're seeing a lot of derivativeremakes of films from the past. Do
you think we're going to get backI know there's a writers strike right now.
Are we going to get back tosome original, brilliant filmmaking like this?
Well, I mean it's I don'thave a crystal ball, can't see

(21:42):
into the future. So it's youknow, filmmaking in terms of actual feature
films and not really getting bring television. And it's kind of bifurcated with you
know, you have the big budgets, which is all um, uh,

(22:03):
roller coaster rides, you know.I mean there, I enjoy some of
these roller coaster rides a good bit. I'm not being dismissive of it,
but it's like that is one typeof thing. Um, you know,
complexity is not a big issue there. It's it's about kind of just pushing
entertainment, which I'm fine with.And the other side is stuff that's actually
being pushed to streaming um, whichhas a more natural fit. Kind of

(22:29):
the lower budgeted films that you know, don't that probably would struggle to make
decent money at the box office,but if Amazon is footing the bill,
it gets easier to make. Sosmaller films are great. And I've I've

(22:51):
actually really enjoyed the streaming Um stuff. I think it's good. Well,
it's just it's just there's so muchstreaming that so much of it gets lost.
Who was it it was Quentin Tarantinodid an interview like in the last
few days where he said, youknow, the Ryan Reynolds movies that are
being made for streaming, it's likethey don't exist because they just get forgotten

(23:14):
immediately by the culture. And youknow, and we're talking like Ryan Reynolds
is making fifty million dollars a moviefor stuff like six Underground and Red Notice,
but no one talks about them,you know. So and that's the
danger is that you have really interestingfilms being made, but they're very small
and they're not getting the kind ofrelease that can give them attention. So

(23:38):
it's it's hard to find. Soin terms of just like filmmakers that I
like now that are working now,you've got a range from someone like David
Lowery who did The Green Knight,who did a ghost story, very interesting,
tiny little films, and other sideyou have some when like Matthew Vaughan

(24:00):
who did does the Kingsman movies,who are just like anarchic fun Yeah.
Yeah, And it's just it's Idon't know, it's I don't have a
crystal ball I think. I mean, movies can keep being made and then
they still make they still write books, you know, it's the people still
write poetry. It's there still gonnaget made. It's just a question of

(24:21):
is there going to be another Titanic. I don't know. The Avatar two
made bunches of money. I don'tI don't know what messes one wow.
I mean some of the some ofthe sort of eighties and nineties, I
mean the MCU kind of covers theTitanic kind of brand of filmmaking. Yeah,
where it's like you said, it'sjust this roller coaster ride. It's

(24:41):
visually arresting. It can be alot of fun, but there's not a
lot of I mean, one ofthe things I was struck by. And
then we'll talk about your book bythe Searchers, which just this. And
I talked to David, my boyfriend, about this as well, and he
mentioned the movie Jaws as an example, the scene in the very beginning of
The Searchers where he goes and hesees the audience doesn't see the mom his

(25:04):
I guess, sister in law who'sbeen right, who's been murdered by the
commanch. He goes to a doorwayand he's in shadow. It's taken from
inside that whatever room he's looking into. She's clearly in there, brutally murdered.
You never see it, but youknow by the way Ford frames the

(25:26):
scene that it is horrifying what he'slike. And I mentioned that to Dave
and he said, yeah, it'slike Jaws, like that kind of filmmaking
where you never have to see theshark. And that's I guess what I'm
trying to get at. Yeah,some of the stuff is so it's just
in your face, like the MCU, which I love a lot of those
movies, but it's really it's reallylike I think there are filmmakers that are

(25:51):
doing that. I haven't seen TheGreen Knight, I remember wanting to,
but I like him Knight Shamalan,which I know I've told you before.
I think he does some of thatwhere scary thing you never see or the
interesting thing you never see. Yeah, it's it's it's about kind of economy
and filmmaking when audience to kind ofYeah, it does require a lot,

(26:15):
Yeah it does. It's kind ofa side effect. But you know,
you when you're making movies under theHayze Code, which by the fifties was
still in effect, it was stilla concern you couldn't show much in the
way of gore um. And atthe same time, john Ford was a
fairly efficient filmmaker just in terms ofkind of moving through a production. And

(26:37):
so it's just how do I veryquickly and effectively demonstrate this without getting on
the wrong side of sensors? AndYeah, and once you take away the
need to like bow to a sensorin terms of that sort of thing,
the artistry, the effort in anartistry doesn't get lost. It just kind

(26:59):
of changes. You're moving from subtletyto something more explicit. And I don't
know, it's I find it lessfun. I think the subtle way is
more interesting because, as you say, it does involve me more as an
audience member. I have to beengaged in order to see it, as
opposed to you know, splatter onthe screen, which I can very much

(27:22):
have fun with. Let's let's notget me wrong. I love a good
splatter. But it's like, it'sthat's that's a different kind of engagement it
is. I mean, I sawCocaine Bear. It was ridiculous, but
it was a fun movie. Yeah, all right, let's let's wrap up
by talking about your book a littlebit. So I am so intrigued by
the description on Amazon. Um socolonial Nightmare, right, yep. So

(27:48):
it's uh yeah, So I wasreading a biography of George Washington many many
years ago when it came across,and it accounted for this story that really
happened to George Washington. Where asa twenty one year old colonial major in
the colonial militia, a rank thathe inherited from his elder brother who died,

(28:11):
he was given the mission of goingfrom Williamsburg, Virginia to Fort Le
bouff in Um modern day Pennsylvania.Like Northwest Pennsylvania in the middle of summer
and the middle of winter. Hehad to go up and he came back.
And on his way back, heand his guide, Christopher gist encountered
an Indian who um offered to helpguide them. And then he pulled a

(28:37):
couple of pistols and tried to firethem at Washington. They both misfired.
He obviously survived, and they wenton and and and then there was another
life threatening event where Washington fell intothe frozen Allegheny River at one point.
Um So I read about this andit's exciting. It's like, this is

(28:57):
great. Why have I never heardabout this before? Idea kind of sticks
with me for a while. ThenI realized Washington wasn't telling the full truth.
That's why I've never heard about it. Washington was actually attacked by a
monster that he couldn't explain. AndI'm going to bring this truth to the
world now. It's I mean,there's the obvious comparison is to Abraham Lincoln

(29:22):
Vampire Hunter, which took Abraham Lincoln'sentire life and inserted vampires throughout. I
just take this one event, andI find the multifaceted horror of this journey.
It's not just against this monster thathe can't explain and doesn't know how
to fight, it's also against theweather. It's also against it would beat

(29:45):
down, this constant beat down fromnature of wind, snow, ice,
rain that just just makes not hislife miserable, but actually the entire journey
is just dangerous just to go on. And then on top of that,
there's the impending French and Indian War, which the actual effort was, the

(30:08):
actual mission, was an effort totry and prevent that from happening, because
you know, you know, theFrench and Indian War was just the American
theater of the Seven Years War,and what really sparked the American theater part
of it was the French efforts tolike build in territory that the English thought
they owned, and so that's justkind of ended up creating this conflict.

(30:30):
But yeah, it's it's the truestory obviously of George Washington fighting a monster
in the middle of the Higher Valley. It's been hidden for hundreds of years
and I have brought it out.Well, that's awesome, sounds like it's
definitely worth a read. And wherecan people find the book? It's on
Amazon I self published, as yousurmise, so Amazon is just like the

(30:53):
best platform to self publish on.There are kindall paperback and hardback versions.
Um and yeah, everyone should buythem, buy multiple copies for themselves and
for all their family. Cool.Cool, I love it. Okay,
well, thank you for coming onagain. I know it's been too long.

(31:15):
We go for a while, wedon't talk, and then you know,
we talk again, and it's alwaysa great interview. It's always fun
and interesting, So thank you David. Always enjoy it. Yeah, okay,
well let's um, let's try todo this again sooner rather than yeah,
all right, thanks, I'll haveto make an effort. All right,
thank you all. From the PsychiatricBoard, it's bass up on the

(31:44):
bulletin board with the reboard. Thishas been a presentation of the FCB podcast
Network, where Real Talk lifts,visit is online and FCB Podcasts dot com. Um