Review of Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Sir, I'm detecting a subspace message. I'll put it on speakers subspace dare
to wonder. Hi, I'm NickBriggs and the executive producer of Big Finished
Productions and the voice of the Daleks, and you're listening to Mark Who forty
two. Welcome everybody to Mark Whoforty two. I am your host at

(00:53):
Wardown Friar, and with me todayis Jackie Jacobski. Yes, the mates
have taken over the asylum. It'sVicky and I today. Oh yeah,
oh yeah, it is about togo off. It is about to go
off to these did they still sayoff the hook or off the chain or
off the rails above all of theabove, choose one? But yeah to

(01:22):
uh, speaking of choose, youhave chosen wisely today because we are talking
about the recently released and possibly finalIndiana Jones movie, Indiana Jones and the
Dial of Destiny. So yeah,this is the first Indiana Jones since two

(01:44):
thousand and eight Indiana Jones and theKing of the Crystal Skull, which long
ago. Dah, yep, itwas that long ago. And from what
I recall can into the Crystal Skullopinions have been I think to be the

(02:07):
only way may have liked it.You know what I actually did. I
liked it. I liked it.Um, yeah, certain parts were cheesy,
but you know, this is theIndiana Jones franchise. Um that.
Yes, and it's based on aseries of shorts that and and cereals that

(02:28):
went on through the twenties thirties fortiesin movie theaters. So to me,
that's why those were yea and bythe way, those were freaking cheesy,
so you know, oh yes,oh yeah, Indiana Jones is heads and
tails above that because it was alwaysthe dune Dune done and you know,
stay tuned and come back next weekfor the next edition. You know,

(02:53):
well bat Man got out of thestrap. It was the same in chapter
five. Yeah, so just umah, So what did you think of
the new movie, this new one? Yeah? Um, you know what
if it is if it is HarrisonFord's last raw, which honestly, uh

(03:20):
um, you know, this isa good a good, a good one
to go out on. Yeah,especially because well honestly, um, Harrison
is no spring Chicken and I don'tyou know, and nothing against him at
all from a vine when you're inyour ear. Yeah, well, I

(03:45):
mean they even they even made funof that. Yes, they even made
fun of that, having him like, you know, having him talk to
um misshaw. You know why hedrops you know he uh he name drops.
Uh well no he's not name drops, but yeah, he even mentions
like the events of um of youknow, last of couple of Doom.

(04:12):
Yeah, you know he's like,you know, I was made to drink
the blood of college. You know. It's like so yeah, you know
this is you know, this islike, you know, I was shot.
I was I've been shot several times, once by her, once by
her father. It's like, yeah, there was even a little bit of
that. There was actually a littlebit of that in um. There was
even a little bit of that inCrystal Skull. You know you have Indie

(04:35):
doing the swinging from the you know, swinging from the the top of you
know, for the rafters in thein the warehouse, you know, the
area fifty one warehouse, and youknow he goes, you know, goes,
I should have made that. Youknow, it's a great little it's
a great little thing. It's it'sI mean it's an yeah exactly exactly because

(04:57):
I mean here's the thing. Youknow, It's like it's like I know
that. You know a lot oftimes when they bring a franchise back,
you know, people are like,yeah, I want to see this person
and that person. But if enoughtime goes by, it's like we do
have to acknowledge that they're human beings, right, and they can't just be
themselves up for your entertainment forever.You know, we really don't, you

(05:18):
know, trician I. We werejoking about it, you know that,
like, oh, you know,they keep going, what's the next movie
gonna be? You know, IndianaJones and the search for his prescriptions.
I'm supposed to be picking up thisheart medication. It was supposed to be
ready by today. Why isn't itready? And now it's It's what I

(05:40):
love the It was still magical,it was still fantastical as it should have
been, but those nods to reality. But I have to say that that
is perhaps some of the best daging cgi we've seen to date. Yes,

(06:00):
just when we got to see him. And now I do understand from
some things I read that they scouredthe hundreds of hours of side footage extra
footage from previous Indiana Jones movies andeven Star Wars movies because of course,
you know, it's all owned byLucasfilmed, and we're able to just create

(06:24):
this amazing because I think that eventhough we've had other actors that we've had
and it's been done really well,none have been as good as this.
Yeah, well we didn't well,I mean for those and then you know,
for those who you know, forthose who are listening, we are
talking about the opening of the film. Yes, you know, has a

(06:45):
flashback to World War two to nineteenforty four where Indie was trying to infiltrate
a Nazi held castle, gets capturedand then we end up getting injured.
We end up getting introduced to thealms villain Vulgar that I think it was
Matt Mickelson's. Yeah, Matt Michelson'scharacter, who like Indiegos looking for essteric

(07:12):
artifacts. Of course he does it, you know, for the you know,
Vulgar does it for the glory ofyou know, mustachio jerk. And
you know, we we get introducedto that. We get a great sequence
with this battle on a train.Um that was well done too. Oh

(07:32):
yeah, no, yeah, Ithink the d aging Okay, as far
as look the look the d agingdone for Harrison Ford was great. His
first couple of lines though, didsound like, you know, eighty something
year old Harrison Ford. So itwas kind of weird having a younger Indie
and then having the you know,having the role in the voice, you

(07:54):
know, but he was just funhim. Give him a little yeah,
okay, yeah, yeah. Imean I think towards the end, towards
the end of that flashback sequence,he was sounding a little better, you
know. So I think that theary some of those those such that they
were able to take. And it'sthe sort of thing that you know,

(08:18):
when an actor consents and and oncethat done as part of the film,
it could be an absolute wonderful thing. And I appreciate the fact that this
was done in conjunction with him andthey didn't just do a movie without him.
I'm not sure if Disney would.I'm not sure how Disney feels in
general on the whole AI debate that'sgoing on. But I love the fact

(08:41):
that this was something that was clearlydone with love, with care and with
the actor. You know. Ijust talked about a win win win situation
where it ended up really it helpedthe movie was done. I'm just I'm
in awe because we've seen so muchd aging lately where they'll have people go

(09:03):
backwards and then they come back tocurrent day and um, sometimes it just
looks like someone put a plastic maskon over them. You know, I've
seen better mission impossible masks. Um. And I'm talking about the original series
people, not that the movie thingiesthat have been on. Um. Yeah.
Well also also we have the otherthing we have is that um you

(09:26):
know you you bring that up.Um, there was that Scorsese film The
Irishman. Yes We're Yeah, theydid try to d age the actors,
and you know, very famously therewas you know one scene where um where

(09:46):
yeah, the you know, Ithink it's DeNiro or somebody. You know,
it's like beating somebody up, butyou can felt it's like a really
it's a it's an older person.And when it's supposed to be somebody you
know, young and she's it's notas bad Chile and the face may looked
like it. And so that's whysometimes you have to marry it on other

(10:07):
bodies. Although I understand that exceptfor the CGI stunts, because like most
of the stunts on the train wereeither stuntmen, which would have been done
that way anyway, UM or orCGI. So some of it Harrison Ford
still did because he's a surprisingly fiteighty year old. Yeah, oh yeah,
yeah, And I think I think, actually I forget if it was

(10:31):
this one or Crystal Skull, wherehe really wanted to do as much of
his own stunts as possible and theysaid, um, with the thing,
well, with the thing. Well, I mean his his response was he
wanted to do that because he wantedit to look like a you know,
like an older an older guy doingthis stuff, not you know, not

(10:52):
somebody like a really good No.I totally agree, And so in this
one they kind of did this interestingmishmash, which I think is probably why
it's working so well for me,because I'm I'm believing it, you know,
and clearly Harrison Ford is very involvedwith it. This is not dead
actors, so it's not the casethat we have with um, you know,

(11:16):
Peter Cushing and and um Harry Fisher. I actually enjoyed those, although
now when you look back at Rogueone it looks a little quaint, but
it was. It was some ofthe best ones I'd seen at that time.
And now we've leaped forward I don'tmassively, yeah, although I mean
to be honest, like to behonest, if you could find you know,

(11:39):
I'm somebody that like, okay,as far as this one, you
know, as far as like thethe prologue, you know, back in
nineteen forty four, I'm fine withthe d aging. My my thing also
although you know my thing is alsothat like I I kind of you know,

(12:01):
I'm kind of of the of theopinion that like we you know,
as far as like um, youknow, as far as all that's concerned,
if it is possible to find somebodywho looks like and who can act
like a young yeah Karrie Fisher ora young or you know, or Peter

(12:22):
Cushing's circa nineteen seventy seven, oryou know, freaking you know, where
you don't really need do this thingwhere you use AI to bring a dead
actor back. I would say gofor it. I would agree. I
would say, I would say gofor it, because you do have you
know, you do have these youknow you do have. I'm sure that
there are actors out there who couldbe you know, at least a passable

(12:46):
good heavens yet, you know,because it it does beg to to me
there's a definite because concern of well, once we've done this, and I
remember a debate that happened way backwith the very first Jurassic Park when they

(13:07):
superimposed electronically the face of the childactress on top of the stunt double who
was hanging from the HVAC and theconcern the debate started back then about okay,
but how far do we take thisnow? I have no problem in
the case of like what's happened nowor even finding I like your idea of

(13:33):
finding people who could be passable doublesand you know, you work with him,
you're coach them. That's what weused to do. It used to
do that if an actor had toget replaced because of death or something like
that. You know, a waybefore we had all these computers, you
found the actor who you found someonewho was passable, and you trained them.
You know, back when we trainedpeople to do things, and you'd

(13:56):
be amazed at how much would work. But you and I know that,
I think it's just forgotten. It'slike, oh, well, we'll just
have a computer do it. Idon't know. To me, that's actually
lazy because it'll take more hours todo it on a computer than it will
to train someone who's who's a goodactor. Yeah, I'll say this.
I will say this, um somethingwhere I found that it worked. It

(14:20):
actually worked, you know, tryingto use a computer to bring a dead
actor back, especially because once yousaw how it was used, it was
like, oh, oh that isactually clever. Is film Skycaptain in the
World of Tomorrow? Yes, theyused they used some old audio and some

(14:41):
computer enhanced you know, old footageof Lawrence Olivier. Yeah, as the
bad you know, as the villain. But then you know the twist spoiler
alert, is that the villain hasbeen dead for years and the image that
you see is like this comput uteryou know, this this like computer recording.

(15:03):
It's like in that particular case,I'm like actually working works. That
freaking work. That was the Wizardof the exact exactly exactly. See like
then that one that works. Uh, you know, it's just a matter
of yeah, just you know,applying it, um, you know,
just applying it like judiciously, youknow, like don't just don't just be

(15:24):
like we're gonna AI and CG Ithis stuff. So, you know,
too often you see people do thingsthat are along the lines of Um,
I'm going to do this because Ican, not because it's better for the
film, not because it's better forthe story, not because it's better.
It's oh I can do this,so iem going too. And there's lots
of people that I respect them verymuch. But just because you can doesn't

(15:48):
mean that it's better for the filmor a story or anything else. It's
so tempering this and tempering this technology. Um, let's use it for guys.
Let's just use it for good.Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, but you know, movingmoving on, you know, moving on,
because I mean this is this isthis is our Indie five discussion.
This isn't uh yeah, this isnot you know, this is not CGI

(16:12):
good or bad. Yeah, wewere actors using a CGI. It's like
that's you know, yeah that IndianaJones. Yes, yeah, yes,
um it's great that after the prologue. You know, one if I have
any issues with the prologue since thiswas distributed by Disney, you know,

(16:33):
we do. We we don't haveone of the hallmarks of the Indiana Jones
series, which was the you know, they were distributed by Paramount, so
we'd have a thing where it's theParamount logo and it solves into the scenes.
So like, for example, youknow, the Paramount logos a mountain
and then you know, it wouldsolve into the scene and like it would
turn into a mountain in the jungle, or in the case of Crystal Skull,

(16:56):
a mound that a CG I Gophercame out of. But you know
that's nice, you know, butI know it was it was kind of
interesting seeing the Disney one hundred logoAnd it's not like it didn't fit.
It just it was like, oh, but that's different. Yeah, well,
I mean I would have I wouldn'tIt would have been nice if like

(17:18):
Disney one hundred logo dissolved and likeyou know, maybe the top of the
castle. Yes, I was justthinking like that would have been oh yeah,
yeah, yeah, and that wouldhave kind of kept kept the you
know, the feel that we're usedto. But of course, you know,
of course this is you know,I mean, this this wasn't directed

(17:40):
by Spielberg. This was James uhMan gold something like yeah, something like
that. Yeah, um, youknow, this was this was his baby.
Although he is you know, hedid keep the spirit of films.
This wasn't you know, this wasn'tsomebody who uh you know, came in
and was like all right, allright, cool, you know, he

(18:02):
just definitely formula beats. Yes,and there were a few things yeah,
yeah, no, yeah, yeah, I know that. After the but
yeah, after the prologue, wedo get um the pleasant day Indie well
present quote unquote it's nineteen sixty nine, yes, because it's the yes,

(18:25):
the um astronauts have returned um fromthe moon and they're having their parade,
which I thought was so funny inappropriate. Uh no, And and you
know, and then of course weget you know, we get Indie uh
tapping into his um, you know, tapping into his U the old man
uh routine. It's moony, man, I know, it was so good

(18:56):
he was although frank you old guy. Oh yeah. And and honestly,
I, um, I do haveto agree with him because it's like it
o'clock, eight o'clock in the morning. Guys. It's like, yes,
we're celebrating, but come on,man, people have work, people,
you know, you know, Imean eight o'clock in the morning, dude,

(19:17):
you know, get get you know, give a little bit of leeway
here, um, and you know, and then of course, uh,
you know, one thing though,I mean, I will say one thing.
Um, when we get indeed gettingup from having just slept in the
chair all night, you know,we get like, you know, we
get a look at him just justin his you know, in his box.

(19:41):
It's interesting how he looks like anold man. Yes, very fit
old man. Yeah, yeah,very fit. Like oh yeah, no,
no, no, no, no, that that is not in doubt.
The fact that he looks like likethis is not you know, yeah,
you know, it's like it's gotthe India. I think is supposed
to be maybe a couple of yearsyounger than Harrison Ford is in reality.

(20:04):
But you know, yeah, thisis a seventy something almost eighty year old
guy. He is going he isnot going. You know, this is
not going to This is not DanielCraig coming out of the water in Casino
Royale. This is not you know, this isn't Jason Momoa under the waterfall
in Aquaman. You know he is. This isn't a Superman after he justly

(20:30):
yeah, oh yeah, well noit's not. It's not just proud of
it. It's it's you know,sorry children reality. Yes, well,
we get well, we get old. Some of the muscles kind of you
know, lose their definition. It'syou know, not, you know,
it's not not everybody can be um, what's the name of that bodybuild her?

(20:52):
You know who was like an olderguy but like I still have muscles?
What does it Jack Lane or something? I don't know, JaQuel Lane.
Yeah, and I'll be Jack Leline, you know what I mean.
Good for you, sir, Butit's like, yeah, you know,
sometimes you get older and some ofthat stuff just goes bye by. It
just it, it happens. It'sunfortunate. Uh, you know, if
you're lucky, you hold onto itfor a long time. But if not,

(21:15):
you know, it's unfortunately. Fathertime is like I'm that I'm gonna
that that. You know, Ohhey, those legs. He used to
be a marathon runner. People areoh. Until he gets fully upright and
he's standing, you know, hereminds you more of Carl from up then

(21:37):
India Jones. And then when hegets a little bit more upright and and
he's moving around, you can seeif he still has he's still a little
spry, but he's not the thirtyforty fifty sixty something you're wading in previous
movies. And so you look atit and you go, wow, okay,
and I like it because it extaposeswith what we just saw that whole

(22:03):
young, youthful and now here heis today and he's struggling understandable ye oh
yeah yeah, and you know,and we and it's like and also there
is a scene that, um,basically I felt I sympathized with Indie so

(22:25):
much. And that's when he's inthe classroom. Oh and you have like
these you know, and you havelike these these these kids basically like you
know, not really you know,not not showing the effort. And it's
like, I'm just like I'm gettingand like when he talks about, you
know, anybody read what was thetext? Yes, I'm sat in on

(22:48):
classes top by my dad. Whereif that has happened, where like he
says, anybody reading the book?And then with the side of course,
the only difference is h if itwas my dad, he would have basically
run, like you know, hewould have given them the riot Act and
he would have said this is goingto be on the test. Yeah,

(23:08):
like you have to read like youI am not going to tell you.
I'm not your mother, I'm notgoing to tell you to read the text.
But it will be on the testand if you haven't read it,
you are going to die. It'slike he would have basically, you know,
that would have if Indie was mybad he would have said that.
He would have been like, youknow, this is going to be final,
this is going to be on yourfine. Also you got to read

(23:30):
it. But you know, yeah, it's just that that one. I
sympathize with him, and I wasjust like, oh yeah, and yeah,
it's and it seems like he's inyou know, he's he's in a
community college or something. You know, he's having the deal with smaller,
smaller deal than he's used to.Yeah, and well also you know the

(23:52):
students are not as uh, what'swhat's the thinking bested in? Yeah,
yeah, they probably although they propus to Helena Shaw for for coming in
and livening things up. And actuallywe will on that note, we do

(24:12):
have to go for a commercial breakunfortunately, but you know what, we
will come back. Okay, wecome back. We are going to keep
talking about Indiana Jones and the Dialof Destiny. We're gonna get more into
the plot. We're gonna get intoHelena Shaw. Yeah, we're also gonna
we're gonna get into, uh youknow, some returning favorite characters, and

(24:34):
we're gonna get into the absence ofa certain character. And yeah you will,
Simpson fans, you will know whyI am cutting to commercial with this
quote. I must go now,my payment, my planet needs me.

(24:56):
Oh yeah, more on that whenwe come back here on subspace rate you
don't go, don't go, Mark, after this stand by Houston Way are
receiving signals from subspace. You arelistening to Mark Who forty twos universe.

(25:18):
Welcome back, Welcome back to MarkWho forty two where we're discussing India,
Jones and the Dial of Destiny.So, now did you get here naturally
or did you use the dial ofdestiny? Ye? Be honest, be
honest, I am needed some help. Uh did did you take advantage of

(25:41):
continental drift? VICKI? It didhurt really hard to plan it just right?
Yeah, there you go. Steeyep, got can't can't forget that
continental drift. That's that's important.I know. That was so good.
Yeah. Now they think they've won, and no they haven't. Yeah,
I done ends drift. Yeah,I've actually I've actually read I've actually read

(26:07):
like articles that you know things thatsay that, yeah, grime travel,
you know, you have to doa little bit of time and space travel
because yeah, yeah, you knowif you know, you travel back in
time and then it's like, oh, the Earth's not there, or you
know, you're you're a few youknow, you're you're maybe a few yards
away from where you're supposed to be. You know, a new accidentally prime

(26:29):
travel into a wall. Which Ithink was actually that people don't always think
about, is that you've got everything'smoving in the galaxy, everything's moving on
this planet. Nothing has been stationarypretty much since the original formation, since
the original blue dot began and grewand grew and grew into the planet we

(26:49):
now attend it just everything has changed, Everything shifts, everything becomes something different.
So wouldn't it make sense if you'regoing to do time travel, you've
got to take into account all thesedifferent little what ifs, which is why
it's such a difficult concept. It'sa great concept. I love the concept,

(27:11):
but I also recognize that in youknow, it has to be timey
whin me for it to work,because nothing's a straight line. Nothing is
yep, where I'm standing right now. If I were to go back fifty
years would not be where I'm standingright now. Yep. He but um,

(27:36):
but speaking of going back, uh, you know, there is you
know, one of the one ofthe things that you know, it was
really good about Dial of Destiny iswe you know, we did have new
characters, like we did have HelenaShaw and her very nice yeah and her
boy wonder that was so good.You gotta wonder how many things that kid

(28:00):
pick pocket didn't you know, wenever saw Probably a lot more than we
know, yep. And then youknow when he when he picked the pocket
of that preppy kid who was beingawful. It's like, honestly, I
was just like, yeah, youdeserve it, you little I know,
little I know. Oh yeah,you want to play those games, Well
guess what you're doing. Okay,guess what you're you're gonna get, you

(28:22):
know, play stupid games, winstupid prizes. Um. But yeah,
we did have a couple of returningfavorites. Yep. We did have,
um, you know, one personthat we did have making a comeback Salah,
which it was so it was sonice to have him one more time.

(28:45):
Yes, and I did like becauseI mean, yeah, we knew
that he was coming because you know, if you remember the the previews,
it did show uh Sala you know, doing the Jannah Jones um. You
know it. It's like, Iit, uh, you know, it

(29:08):
was nice seeing him, and Ilike the fact that he showed up again
at the end that you know,I felt like we needed a little closure
for him too. Yeah. Imean, you know, okay, it's
it's closure in the sense that youknow, yeah, he you know,
I mean it's not you know,total closure. It's not like, you

(29:29):
know, Sala passes away and youknow there's India's bedside. No, he
just he shows up at the end. I do like that he's with his
uh, with Teddy, you know, the the Boy Wonder, you know,
the Boy Wonder sidekick to Helena.I do like that he's with Teddy
and you know, his grandkids.And as he walks out him in the

(29:49):
apartment, he's doing outish tars ofarticle job. It's like that was you
know, It's like, yep,did it. That's the last thing I
gotta I you know, if that'sthe last we see of Sala, I'm
just like, you know what,that's the way to walk. That's a
good way for Salah to walk.Off into the sunset. Uh, and

(30:11):
yeah, Marian is back. Mariandid come back. It was a little
bit of a cameo. Um,but it was a perfect cameo. It
was, and you know what itdid, It did go. One of
the things the story does is itdoes you know it is part of the
story, you know, because oneof the things is in the in this
you know this isn't you know,he's a little bit more grouchy, and

(30:33):
part of it is beginning of thefilm is marriage is on the rocks.
His marriage is on the rocks.We later find out it is because of
much of course, because matter MuttWilliams. You know, yeah, Mutt
will You know, Mutt Williams playedby Shila la buff is the reason why
in these marriages collapsing. But notyou know, but not you know,

(30:57):
not not because of anything. Well, it's because of what he did.
In this case, it's deciding tosign up to go fight in Vietnam and
unfortunately, off screen he is killedin combat and that just kind of shatters
you know, his parents. Um, that is you know, I made

(31:19):
the joke for the break, youknow, I did the you know,
the reference to itchy and scratchy andPucci. You know, Pucci, I
must go now, my planet needsme. Pucci died on the way to
back to his home planet. Thatjust it feels like, yeah, mud
got Pucci, Yeah got Pucci.It's like it's like, yeah, we
you know, we couldn't you know, Shila buff either wasn't invited back or

(31:42):
didn't want to come back, youknow, or little columb A, little
Columbi, and they were just like, Okay, we're gonna kill him off.
And you know, Indie's gonna beyou know, in a in a
bad place because of it. Um, I'm gonna do a hot take here.
As you know, I honestly neverhad a lot of issues with the

(32:07):
character, um, you know,of Williams. I thought, you know,
it was a character that, youknow, you could do some interesting
stuff, you know, especially ifyou know the idea that here India has
a son, but he's not aoff the old block. You know,
I thought there was some stuff there, and you know, if Shaia wasn't

(32:29):
around, you know, I mean, I'm sure you probably could still do
the thing where he's fighting in Vietnam. Um. You know, I am
glad spoiler alert at the end,it looks like Indian Marian are reconciling.
Yes, I do love the beautifulnod to that scene from Raiders. It's
like, yes, here and here, you know, yeah, it was

(32:53):
just it was beautiful. Um.I am so glad, you know,
I'm glad that there was at leastyou know, I'm glad that she did
get a chance to do. Iwish Marian was in more of the film.
Uh. I have seen articles thatsay that Karen Allen did wish it
to and that apparently if you know, things had actually you know, worked

(33:14):
out and Shaya came back, thatyou know, there would have been more
or I think I think, likeI think if Spielberg had been more of
a participate in this film, thatyeah, we would have had more for
Marian to do. But at leastshe came back. At least it ends
with the two of them together.Yes, Honestly, it's like, yeah,

(33:35):
no, I you know that that. It's like to me, it's
like I would not want indies storyLike if this is the last roper Niana
Jones, I would not want itto end with Indie you know, not
Yeah yeah, yeah, no,yeah, come on they they yeah no,
no, it's they were put togetherat the end of Crystal Skull and

(33:59):
it's like, if we have tohave unless adventure, they have to end,
they have to end together. Ohyeah, but um, you know,
and also just continuing with the thought, you know, the thought of
you know, Shila buff you knowINDI's you know, Indie Son, but
he's not a chip off the oldblock. He's not an explorer. We

(34:19):
do get, you know, weget the character. We get Phoebe Waller
Bridges character of Helena Shaw, whoshe is interesting, like I know that
Trish didn't like her at you know, didn't you know, Trish didn't really
like her until the end. Andyeah, my my brother in law didn't
like her until she was her youknow, a change of heart knock,

(34:39):
like he'll turn the change of heart. I you know, I actually liked
her. And to me, ifthey do decide to some sort of spinoff,
like you know, have her asyou know Indies quote unquote successor,
I think that there's some meat therethat you can work because she's so Indiana

(35:01):
Jones is very much a true believer. These pieces belonging museums. They deserved,
the history needs to be known bypeople, and she's more about the
quick Buck, which kind of becomesunderstandable as you understand her life, and
she sees these objects that were anobsession of her father's and Indiana Jones,

(35:23):
and so it makes sense that forher it's all what is it in?
What's in it for me? Andthat's an actually very more normal you know,
most people don't tend to be allautruistic or all bad, unlike the
Nazism. So but we'll get tothem later. But Helena was a complex

(35:45):
character. She was all of theabove. And for her, I could
picture selling the piece of the dialbecause it was very obvious. She was
always conflicted. She wanted to putthe whole thing together, and she wanted
to find all, you know,find out what it really is and find
out what it will really do.It obviously interested her, but at the

(36:06):
same time, it's like, Okay, this is what destroyed my father,
so I want to sell it andmake something of it because this has negative
connotations for me. And she's clearlybeen on her own. It's kind of
why I think she's taking Teddy underher wings, because she sees herself and

(36:27):
Teddy and so you know, theymake very good foils to Harrison Ford because
if they if Indiana Jones and Helenahad the same goals, I don't think
it nearly be as interesting now.And it's you know, and it's interesting
because she is in many ways sheis Indies equal. Yes, as far

(36:50):
as as far as the you know, as far as like the the you
know, she is equal in thesense that um, you know, in
the sense that she is the youknow, she knows her stuff. Yes,

(37:15):
she knows history just like him.Backwards and forth. Yep, Um
she is you know, Yeah,she knows, she knows her stuff,
she knows her history. Yeah.Where she you know, where she's different

(37:35):
is um, Yeah, she doesn'thave is. I think the closest word
I can use is nobility. Yeah, their motivations are very different. She
wants to know everything like he does. She wants to know all the secrets
of the universe like he does.But then she wants to exploit it where

(37:59):
he wants to and use it toshare history with the universe and make everyone
want to um enjoy in it too. And it's it's very interesting that someone
who can have that much love ofhistory and that much disdain of historical objects
as as uh monetizing them only it'sa fascinating um opposite side of the coin

(38:25):
of Indiana Jones. But that's whatmakes you so interesting because she is different,
she's she's she's not all good,she's not all bad. She's certainly
not um trying to bring the thirdReich back. Um, yeah, well
but that I think that, youknow, with vulgar that is that I

(38:47):
think is one of the interesting thingson his character is the fact that,
um, she did you know,he did want to bring the third Reich
back. But it's interesting because hewasn't interested in helping Hitler. No,
he wanted it for himself. Yeah. Well, he's well, this whole
thing, it's interesting because he believesin Hitler's vision. But he's like,

(39:09):
okay, but you know you willthat man. Yeah, yeah, you've
gone. Yeah, it's like you'vekind of lost it. You know,
you've kind of lost it. Wereally should, you know. Let's yeah,
yeah, that's he thinks he canmake it better. He can do
it better. He is smarter.No, it's yeah, well, it's

(39:30):
well, you know, either himin charge or at least somebody in charge
who's not cucko for cocoa puffs,right, And it's like okay, yeah,
no big surprise that when someone hasbeen the loser, if they want
the opportunity to go back in time, either literally or figuratively, to correct
things. It's always amazing how manytimes you have it where they think that

(39:55):
they can prevent the mistakes that happened, or they can do it better,
or or you know, it's it'snot that they thought someone was awful and
let's get rid of this this awfulperson or or situation. It's no,
no, no. If they're goingto conquer the world, they gotta do
it my way because I know whatI'm doing. Really, how about we
just not conquer the world? Youknow, am I asking too much?

(40:20):
Probably? Yeah? I think you'reasking too much. Now. I know.
It's just as soon as someone getsa little bit of power, they
want more. And unfortunately that's notunrealistic at all. Yeah. Well,
you know, absolute power corrupts thatwhole thing. You know, it's um,
very true. Yeah. Well,and then what you know is we're

(40:43):
on you know, well we keepon the uh, the new character the
new character train. Um, whatdid you think? Okay, Well,
first all, Vulgar had his littlebenchman, oh, the chief, the
chief henchman. I'm sorry, butI my nickname for him was Won.

(41:05):
Oh god, I'm never gonna seethat now, but you're so right.
I see that now. Yeah,because he looked like an evil, you
know, it's like it's like thisis Earth three Owen Wilson. Oh.
I meant you're right because he's gotthat weird buzzcut and and the oh wow.

(41:27):
Okay, well now that's gonna stickwith me. But you're right.
He's young and power hungry and clearlya neo Nazi, and um, you
know, clearly assumes that you know, he'll, as they always assume,
if if you help the bad guy, then you can you know, achieve
greatness yourself because you're gonna ride hiscoattails. Basically, he just becomes fodder

(41:52):
when push comes to shove, becausethat's what always happens to the henchman.
You know, they make you thinkthat you are important. But yeah,
and that's seven foot two guys,just real guy. You know, he's
really big. And when he pickspeople up and just throws him over his

(42:15):
shoulder, you go, yeah,oh yeah, yeah, And you know
what, it's I wouldn't be surprised. I mean it's I wouldn't be surprised
if he is the spiritual reincarnation ofPat Roach. It's like, yeah,
the late great Pat Roach who spotIndiana Jones in two of the original trilogy.

(42:37):
Um, you know, he alsoshowed up, you know in like
a really uh really brief cameo andLast Crusade. But uh, yeah,
you know, I wouldn't be surprisedif this guy is you know, if
somebody, you know, if theydid get him, because they're like,
oh, this is gonna be youknow, hey, we're gonna you know,
anybody too. Remember when they wouldhire Pat Roach, Yes, let's

(42:59):
do this too. You know,it's like, yeah, it's it's Pat
Roach all over again. And honestly, I'm just like, no, I'm
good. And the fact that hegot his come upance because that was you
know, because yeah, Teddy lockedhim with the handcuff. That was so
although man, it is a littleI do have to say, that's not

(43:21):
my favorite. That would not bemy favorite way to go out. Yeah,
drowning attached to an iron gate Nope, yeah, no, no,
no, no, no. ThatTeddy was such a um quick thinker.
Yeah oh yeah, yeah, evenhe had to be to survive. Yeah,

(43:44):
no, yeah, definitely definitely.I mean Teddy. Eddy's a great
character in the sense that, yeah, he was a quick thinker, quick
you know, and really just yeah, I mean just really yeah. That
is I would enjoy seeing future adventuresof Helena and Teddy because that could be
fun because wow, they've got tostill survive, you know, at least

(44:08):
some of what she does will befor good, but then some of it
will be to make a buck.But um, but you know, that
would be so much fun to watchbecause they're fun characters. They're they're they're
interesting, they're smart, they're Idon't know, I just I really enjoyed

(44:29):
it. Oh yeah, I alsothink that, um, what would be
interesting is to see um, Teddyand Helena, you know, like it
would be interesting Helena trying to youknow, maybe having learned something at you
know, INDI's feet, and thentrying to be like, you know,

(44:51):
trying to be like, Okay,I'm going to you know, all right,
I'm going to try it Indies way, you know, trying to be
like, oh, you know,let me do it, you know,
you know, and then just alsotrying to deal with the fact that yeah
she's doing it, she's trying todo it. You know Indiana Jones's way.

(45:15):
But you know, there is thething that you know, you do
have she does have so many yearsof having done it the other way that
you know it might not slip backup or at least at least run into
somebody who you know, and allthe what Yeah, yeah, somebody spissed

(45:37):
off or at least somebody who youknow wants you know, right, it's
more interested in classic Helena than inthe Helena who now you know, it's
a little bit more understanding of herfather and her godfather's you know work.
It's like, yeah, no,I need the Helena who's okay with you
know, breaking into this. It'slike, no, I don't do that

(45:57):
anymore. Okay, that's not goingto work for me. You know,
like, yeah, we you know, it would be interesting to see that
I've actually said, you know,this is something when you know, when
word comes in that that dial ofDestiny is supposed to be the last raw.
Yeah, and then after after lastyear with a certain fantasy film,

(46:22):
you know, everything everywhere all atonce. I know that a lot of
people were saying, hey, youknow, let's get short round back,
you know, because that actor nowhas a resurgence. And to me,
I'm like, you know what wouldbe interesting is yeah, pull the trigger,
give Short Round like a spin off. Maybe even have him in Helena

(46:45):
and you know, you know aboutit this way, you'll have short Round.
You know, Short Round is ofcourse the one who um, you
know, he's kind of he's learnedit in these feet and he is very
much, you know, like theSun. Indie never ad Sorry Mudd,

(47:07):
you know, sorry Mudd, It'strue, you know, uh, you
know he's like the you know,he is in many ways the Sun that
you know, Indiana Jones should havehad. You know, you have short
Round and then you have Helena,who's trying to learn how to do it,
you know, yes, how todo things a little more what's the

(47:28):
word we're going for, you know, a little bit more on the straight
and narrow. That would be interesting, you know, having the two of
them together, and you know,and you know it would be even hell.
I would even say, you know, if it was me, I
would have, um, Indie,I would have Indie at least have a
little cameo to send everybody on theirway just a little because come on,

(47:51):
you know, you gotta have apatch moment. Gotta have that. I
would actually have a moment where,you know, short round talking to Indie
and you know, they say,it's like, India, I haven't seen
you since your wedding. Yeah,and you know Indie just going like,
yeah, that was a good one, that kind of thing, you know,
just indicating that because I know that. I think that they were thinking

(48:14):
of giving John Reich, Davies anda couple of other characters like a cameo
at the wedding, but it waslike yeah, but it was like,
oh, they didn't want to haveit be this weird series of cameos.
I think also John Davies wanted youknow, I thought the fans would want
more of Sala than you know,and I would agree kid's lips, uh

(48:36):
you know, and I gotta admit, yeah, I I yeah, I
do feel that one I would likeSalid to be more than just you know,
hey, kids look at Salo.Yeah. You know, sometimes you
can fit in those little cameos thatlike that, But it kind of depends
on it's been too many years,so to just suddenly have all these characters
appear at the wedding and that's itwould just be too little. Exactly like

(49:01):
so many years between three and fourexactly. Although I did hear I don't
know if it was if this isfor real or not, but I did
hear there was going to be ajoke um talking about Willie Scott, like,
oh what happened to Willie Scott?And uh, you know Indy was
going to indicate that she just marriedsome big shot Hollywood director. Oh that

(49:22):
would have been funny. That wouldhave been funny. But yeah, you
know it's it was good. Wouldlike to see, yeah, some of
this continue. But I also,I'm not gonna lie if if this is
it, that's okay. Yeah,oh no, yeah, it's you know,
it is a good way to goout on. Definitely, you know

(49:43):
it's a good way to go outon. Uh you know that. And
and I on it. And it'sinteresting. I didn't mind the time travel
at the end, actual time backto it of Syracuse. Yeah, I
gotta say. When Indy's like,leave me here, you know I'm gonna
stay here, I was just like, oh, no, this is not
where it's ending. No, No, you are not ending the saga with

(50:05):
Indie living the rest of his lifeas Archimedes roommate. No, No,
it just felt no, no,that would have felt wrong. So when
Helena punched him out and then youknow we have waking up to modern day,
I'm just like, yes, yes, this is yeah, no,
yeah, this is how it hasto end. Forget this. No,

(50:27):
we're not gonna have Indie basically,you know, we're not gonna have an
ending where like, you know,somebody discovers a thing of you know,
a carving of Archimedes and a guythat looks like Indie. No, yeah,
that would have been too off.That's not a good ending, you
know, an ending where he andMarian are reunited and you know, Indie
yanks the hat from where it's dryingon the on the line. That's that's

(50:52):
the ending. Yeah that was perfect. Yeah, that was perfect. Yes,
you know, just like you know, just like the fact that yeah,
when the you know, I youknow, we still gotta love the
U in Kingdom of the Crystal Skullwhere the hat close off and then you
know, up with an Indie likeYanks and it's like no, no,
no, no, you haven't deservedthis. You haven't deserved this. Who

(51:15):
do you think you are? Whodo you think you are? Uh?
Oh, this is not how it'sending. Uh, no, no,
no, no, We're not gonnahave Shyla buff with the indie hat on.
Sorry no, he didn't work.Sorry, yep, yep. And
if anything, if Helena Shaw doesher own adventures, she needs her own

(51:37):
hat, she needs her own hat. If Short Brown has his own adventures,
he needs his own hat. Ithink that hat that's Harrison's, and
that should be Harrison's. That shouldrightly be Harrison's. Nobody else should wear
the hat, yeah, if youhave somebody else, all as a sign
of reference and and as a asa reminder that this is something as Indiana

(51:58):
Jones is, Indiana Jones wears thehat, nobody else, yes, yes.
And on that note, actually,here on subspace, we do have
to say goodbye. Unfortunately. Unfortunately. However, however, if you are
listening to us elsewhere on the nets, we are going to keep going.

(52:22):
But unfortunately, here on subspace,the adventure actually is truly over. But
you know what, we've had agreat time talking to you about this,
and we will be back next timewith more assorted uh geeky talk. Maybe
we'll maybe we'll travel back to Syracuse. Maybe we won't. You know,

(52:43):
I'll tell you this, we won'tgo serve in Vietnam and get killed off
off screen. Now we won't.So yeah, So for Mark forty two,
I've been a Dwardo and Friar withVicky Jakobowski and yeah, just remember
when you're time traveling something drift,you gotta remember continental Drift. Thanks for

(53:09):
listening to markup forty two's Universe featuringMark bound Garden, ifward O, m
Freyer, k Chakobowski, and ZionKuros. This show was produced and directed
by Mark bound Garden. If you'dlike to get in touch with us,
go to our Facebook page or emailus at markup forty two S dot Universe

(53:30):
at gmail dot com. Our radioshow airs weekly on Subspace Radio Network at
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(53:52):
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