August 14, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode of The Marrakech Riad Podcast, bestselling author Fiona Valpy joins us to share the fascinating story behind her novel The Storyteller of Casablanca. Fiona takes us on the incredible journey she embarked upon to bring the book to life, from uncovering the remarkable history of Josephine Baker to immersing herself in the rich tapestry of Marrakech.
Along the way, she reflects on the memories and experiences she’s had in the city since writing the book, offering listeners a deeper connection to its history and charm. The Marrakech Riad Podcast brings you tips, advice, and inspiring stories to help you make the most of your visit to Marrakech.
Find out more about Fiona, and her book The Storyteller of Casablanca, including where to buy it at Fiona's website https://www.fionavalpy.com/books/the-storyteller-of-casablanca/
Along the way, she reflects on the memories and experiences she’s had in the city since writing the book, offering listeners a deeper connection to its history and charm. The Marrakech Riad Podcast brings you tips, advice, and inspiring stories to help you make the most of your visit to Marrakech.
Find out more about Fiona, and her book The Storyteller of Casablanca, including where to buy it at Fiona's website https://www.fionavalpy.com/books/the-storyteller-of-casablanca/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to the Marracus Read Podcast. And Mike,
this is this is an exciting episode, isn't it? Absolutely
because we welcome best selling author Fiona Valpi to the
Marracus Read Podcast. Fiona, thank you so much for being
on this episode with us.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, thank you for having me. And it's amazing to
be here recording it sitting in beautiful read Star. But
not only that, here we are in Josephine Baker's dressing
up room in read Star.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And I mean, this is the most perfect location for
a podcast with yourself. Mike, do you want to just
give context to the room that we're in and then
we can maybe explain exactly why that this is such
a special word to have, Fion room.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, So we're sitting in the what was the dining room. Actually,
this house, we believe in the nineteen forties is a
wonderful fireplace and incredible mirrors, and we're looking at a
Fiona and I are looking on the back of Ollie's
head towards the rail which has clothing on it which
(01:01):
was from the Casino de Paris. Most of it has
been worn on stage. It's costumes which our guests can
use to dress up. We have period dinner parties here
and so it's very interactive and very very fun and
of course you know, completely.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Authentic, absolutely, and Fiona, the storyteller of Casablanca, and the
reason as to why, obviously this is such a perfect
place for you to be in features Josephine Baker quite
quite heavily.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
And it does.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And I think you said to me earlier she is
one of your biggest parents.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
She absolutely is. I didn't set out to have Josephine
Baker as a particularly key character in the book when
I began writing it, but it was just that as
I did the research and found out more and more
about her and her life, but most importantly her role
(01:53):
during World War Two, and you know, the story of
what brought her here to Morocco and what she then
did on behalf of the Allies, on behalf of France,
the country that she loved, her adopted country, is quite
mind boggling. She really became a resistance fighter during the
(02:13):
war and she used her stardom, this tremendous stardom that
she gained through her appearances in the top venues in
Paris as a really a burlursque dancer and a singer.
So I think people underestimated her because that's what they saw,
you know, they saw this sort of scantily clad, beautiful,
(02:34):
dancing and singing star. But she used that to cover
up her clandestine operations during World War Two. So as
I was writing the book The Storyteller of Casablanca, which
is a dual timeline novel set between Casablanca and World
War Two and Casablanca in the modern day, Josephine kind
(02:55):
of muscled in and created a whole sort of thing.
Read of the story for herself.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Mike, you must have because of this house, got to
know Josephine's story, and I'm sure and.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Cover loads and loads about her life.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Well, let me tell you how we learned that Josephine
lived here because when we bought the house because we
loved the architecture. So the history of the house is
and I have mentioned this on previous podcasts. I ain't
go into too much detail, but it's attached to what
is now the Museum of Marrakesh, which used to be
the Mnimbi Palace and in the nineteen thirties it was
(03:33):
renovated as guest accommodation. So there's an art deco feel
to the woodwork here and some of the decor which
it's completely of that time. And Josephine lived here as
a guest. She was never the owner of this house.
She was a guest of the Pasha for the pier
that she lived here and then later the pier that
she was based here when she traveled extensively doing troop performances.
(03:55):
We were actually so we bought this wonderful house, but
not completely understanding this history, and we started its renovation,
and it was a renovation. We tried to retain as
much as we could of the original features. And we,
as one does, knocked on the neighbour's doors and let
them know we were going to do some work and
drank the mint tea and they had an important event
one day. Whatever, please, let's own advance. Will try to
(04:16):
minimize work. Let's work together and make this as as
easy as it can be. And we have we're having
such a great conversation with the neighbor on the right
hand side behind the wall here sadly has passed away
now in his eighties. Had a wonderful conversation with him,
and he asked, and I've never been asked by a Moroccan,
(04:37):
any Moroccan what I was going to call the real renovating.
And we said we're kind of called it Red Star,
and we were kind of called it Red Star because
our daughter suggested that that would be a good name
and also be you know, businessman, it's not a bad
nigme for a hotel of podless searching, you know, for
star accommodations, comination. So that was the plan, and he's
(05:00):
that would be because of the big star who used
to live there. That was where we started, and then
we started, you know, inquiring or whatever. And the folk
memory of Josephine is of she used to of course,
being Josephine, have the kids in running in and out
of the house, and she would give them sweets, and
(05:22):
she give them plaster scene apparently and they'll play. And
we talked to several of those kids who have and
they don't remember her as an international star or as
a guest of the Pasha or she was just for
her humanity and her warmth and the welcome that she
that she gave. So yeah, that was our introduction to Josephine.
(05:43):
And we have been able to you know, we've met
several of her adopted children. We went to We've been
to New York. Have you been to show Josephine in
New York? No? Absolutely, amazing, amazing, And well, I think
once you make that connection, it's so compelling that it's
(06:06):
you know, you really could lose yourself in it.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And I think that you know, you were talking about
doing the restoration and doing it very sympathetically, but I
think you absolutely have captured that feeling of her presence
here as well, without it becoming a sort of Disneyland,
you know, without it becoming pastiche Well, it's kind of.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
You to say that. I mean, it's very it's very
lived in. You know, I think if you Josephine is
definitely here, but equally a lot of our guests, don't
you know, they're not coming for that and they're not
looking for it, and you know it's actually a lovely Moroccan,
very welcoming guests.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes, absolutely, but it's.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
About it's about keeping that tradition alive, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And I want to get onto a story which will
start with how you two met, because actually it then
finishes this story with Josephine's son hearing. An excerpt from
the book. So the two of you met through the
British Moroccan Society, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yes, Yeah, that's right. I'd written the book The Story
to Casablanca, and to my absolute shame, I didn't manage
to visit Morocco while I was doing my research. And
I take a very dim view of any author who
writes a book and doesn't do their research properly on
the ground. But in my defense, it was written during
(07:29):
twenty twenty when we were in lockdown, and I did
try to organize a research trip to Morocco on three
different occasions, and each time they were canceled because of
lockdown and so on. So I had to get quite
creative with the way I did my research, and I
wrote the book and it came out, and then I
(07:50):
was contacted by Richard Hamilton who told me that he
had bought a copy of the Big Issue outside the
BBC as he was heading in, and in that copy
of the Big Issue there was an article about my book,
The Storyteller of Casablanca, because one of the key themes
of the book is refugees, refugees during World War Two.
(08:14):
But I was also then drawing parallels with the you
know the current situation that we have, particularly in Europe
with refugees crossing the Mediterranean and so on, and so
Richard said, would I like to come along and talk
about my book to the British Moroccan Society, And I
took a big, deep breath and said that yes I would,
(08:34):
but making it very plain that I hadn't actually visited Morocco,
and I knew that every single person in the room
would be an expert on Morocco. So my knees were
shaking a little bit as I as I did that session.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
But you were there like, well, I'm the current chair
of the British Moor. Not know who I was there,
But I was on the on the the sitting in
front of the audience with Richard who led the session,
and I was sitting on my hands with excitement really
because what I knew at that point in Vienna didn't
was that it was that we had Josephine.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yes, Mike announced that to me, I think, right at
the end of the session and said you must come
and stay. So there was a brilliant invitation, and in fact,
he and Lucy then followed that up with an invitation
to come and stay here in Riad Star, but also
(09:32):
to take part in the Storytelling Festival in twenty twenty four.
So yeah, it was an absolute dream come true.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And as part of that, there was one particular guest
who I'm sure that you were slightly nervous about presenting to.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Absolutely. Brian Baker was there, one of Josephine's sons. She
adopted twelve children, and she called them her Rainbow tribe.
She couldn't have she had her and so she, being Josephine,
she just went ahead and created this family for herself.
And they were children from all different backgrounds and faiths
(10:11):
and you know, racial backgrounds, cultural backgrounds, and she brought
them all together as her Rainbow tribe. And Brian is
one of those children. And he was here now growing up,
of course, because he had just i think re released
a biography of his mother exactly, and so he and
(10:31):
I were appearing in this session for the Storytelling Festival.
And during that session I was asked to do a reading,
and I thought, well, in for a penny, in for
a pound, I'll just read a small section of the book,
but the one that talks about Josephine. So I had
this kind of out of body experience this surreal moment
(10:52):
where I was reading from my book about Brian's mother
with kind of thoughts and words that I'd put into
her head and her mouth, hoping that he would find
it acceptable. And he was lovely. At the end he
not only said that he had loved it, but best
(11:13):
of all for me, he said that she would have
loved it.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Wow. And how did that feel in that moment?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Oh? Just incredible. That was my first time coming to Morocco,
first time in Marrakesh, first time seeing read Star, taking
part in that storytelling festival which brings together people from
all literally all over the world, but especially having Brian there.
(11:39):
I felt it was the closest I would ever get
to actually meeting Josephine and spending time in her company.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And with all of that in mind, and all of
the experiences and people you've met in conversations, then that's
happened since writing this book. You must have a real
almost feeling of deep connection to this wonderful novel. That's
then a lot all of these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Absolutely, I do you know, as a writer, I shouldn't
have favorites. It's a bit like being asked to pick
a favorite Child, which I would never ever do. But
I really do feel that The Storyteller of Casablanca is
one of the books that I've written that is particularly
close to my heart, partly, as you say, because of
(12:21):
the doors it's opened up for me and the way
that that book has enriched my life. You know, novelists,
we tend to write to try and enrich other people's lives.
That that one has sort of set up this circular
bit of karma where it's you know, enriched my life
and repaid all the hard work and the blood, sweat
(12:44):
and tears that I put into it several hundredfold.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Which is which is absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And the thing you mentioned there was the World Storytelling Festival,
So what was your experience of that beyond just the
session that you did being part of that and how
special it was?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It was fantastic, stick you know. You somehow those who
organize it, and Mike is one of the absolute pillars
of that organization. They managed to bring together I don't know, hundreds,
a couple of hundred people from all over the world
and organize all these events all over Marrakesh. I mean,
(13:20):
what could possibly go wrong? And they find accommodation for everybody,
give everyone the most wonderful time. So yeah, it was
just a spectacularly wonderful event. And I think it was
kind of like diving in at the deep end into
the pool that is Morocco and that is Marrakesh, because
(13:41):
the storytelling is so colorful and vivid that Marrakesh is
so full on at the same time in terms of
that color and that you know, the beauty, the chaos,
the decay, but this sort of tremendous feeling of optimism
and hope and joy that comes from this city.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
And the process that you went through to write the book.
We were talking just before pressing the record. Batton was
one of because you couldn't actually visit, you ended up
watching videos that were hours long and people recording themselves
walking through.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
That's crazy, and that's really how you got to understand
the city.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And the country.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I had to think a little bit wider about the
research I did, so I, you know, one has access
to all the usual sources like good old Google and
the Internet and certain reference books. I read very much
more widely some Moroccan based literature as well to be
(14:41):
able to sort of broaden my impressions I won't quite
say knowledge, but certainly my impressions of the country and
be able to absorb that. But you're right, one of
the best sources, which I don't think most people would
have the patients to watch, but very very very long
(15:02):
videos which had been uploaded by individual tourists who'd visited
parts of Morocco. They probably those videos would probably be
really interesting to them and their friends and family, but
nobody else on the planet because they are unedited, and
it's so for example, walking through the soup, they're just
(15:24):
filming absolutely everything. But that was what I wanted. I
wanted to put myself there to see the dust, the dirt,
the rubbish, the decay, the stalls selling animal heads, but
also the richness of beauty and the you know, the
spices and the incredible leatherwork and so on, that sort
(15:49):
of full on experience that you would have. So I
spent many a happy hour immersing myself in those videos.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And so what I'd love to know is that when
you go through the writing process, you effectively put yourself
into this world. So as you were writing, do you
always close your eyes and imagine yourself to be there.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Without even closing my eyes. I am there, absolutely, and
it's strange because you know, I can sometimes I'll come
to the end of my writing day and it almost
feels that the reality of sitting in my home in Scotland,
that that's unreal because it's been so real where I've
(16:34):
put myself and you know, spending time with my characters
that the author Frederick Beckman once said, don't expect authors
to be well balanced people. We spend ten hours a
day locked away with people that we've made up. So
that's what I do, and that you, you know, you
get really drawn into it. And I think that when
I do get that feeling, I get quite excited because
(16:57):
I think if I'm if I feel that I'm living this,
then hopefully that's what I'm giving to the reader as well.
If I'm able to then communicate that on the page,
I'm going to give the reader that experience of being here,
of living this, of interacting with my characters.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And I'm fascinated to then know, when you first stepped
into Barrakesh for the first time, having explored it through
imagination for such a long period, was there a sense
of nervousness that what you'd effectively imagined it to be,
and built it to be and written it to be.
(17:35):
Might there not be how you felt an experience when
you stepped here for the first time properly.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, definitely, there was that sense of nervous anticipation. You
know what, if I got here and I thought, oh,
I got it all wrong, or I left something really
important out as well, I'd already had this really nice
feedback from everyone at the British Moroccan Society said that
they that I hadn't made any awful, you know, bloopers
(18:04):
in the book. But I think it's that sense of
having having not done justice to the place and not
done justice to the characters that I was a bit
nervous about so far. I think it's okay. I think
I I'm not sure that there's anything I would have
done written differently if I had managed to come here.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Mike, I think the use of okay feels like someone's
being rather modest. I think I think it's a rather
wonderful capture.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Don't you think Piano is an doubtedly extremely.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Modest Yeah, I mean it's a it's an incredible book
and definitely something that's well worth reading. And so then
since kind of your first time in Marrakesh. Obviously you've
been back on several occasions. Again, is this a place
that you've then truly fallen in love with?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah? Absolutely, And I think I think it surprised me
how how much I love it. I you know, I mean,
I was expecting to find it really fascinating as a
place to visit, especially having done the research sort of upfront.
But no, every time I come, I'm I'm blown away
(19:16):
by just how wonderful this place is in its entirety.
You know, it is chaotic, it's hot, it's smelly, it's
full on. It's the minute your walk you start walking
through the streets and you're having to jump out of
the way of the motorbikes and the you know, the
people trying to sell your things and all of that.
(19:38):
It's it's absolutely full.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
On all the senses, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
So you talked about the visual aspect which you are
from your your walk through the Souk, but actually what
you didn't get realized is the next smell that could
be fresh mint, or it could be a.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Drain or yeah, or the spices, you know, all those.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Absolutely, it is really really full on there's a lot
to take in and I think I mean, I'm a
solow traveler, so that can be quite nerve wracking coming
to a new place, and perhaps especially to a country
like Morocco which you know is going to be full
on like that. But I think that that's one of
the huge advantages of coming and staying in a read
(20:20):
like wead Star, because you're greeted as you walk through
the door, You're greeted by the staff saying welcome home,
and from that moment on you're made to feel that
you are genuine. You know, this is a home. This
is a little oasis of peace and calm and beauty
(20:40):
and coolness in the summer and warmth in the winter
when you need it, within the wonderful chaos that is
just outside that door.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Absolutely, and the kind of break from the chaos and
the serenity that you have the moment that the door
closes behind you for me, never go it's old. I
think also we should note that recording this in July
twenty twenty five and it's forty two degrees outside.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
The air conditioning helps as well.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Absolutely, it's most welcome, especially when you come from Scotland
like me. And you just start to wilt.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, the cold temperatures makes you feel at home.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I think there's something that if you only touched on there,
which is really important.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
There.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
There's something about the architecture of the read and the
layout of the read which does help people to interact.
So you will find that you know you're making new
friends here. At breakfast, you'll be talking to people who've
been here a couple of days more who will tell
you about the great restaurant or the garden they visited,
or the excursion they enjoyed or whatever. So it is
it is. I think it really does have the feeling
(21:44):
of staying with friends.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yes, most definitely. And you know, I would say to
anyone who's thinking of coming and perhaps traveling on their own,
or feeling a bit anxious about coming to this place,
and would this be the right experience. Should I stay
in a glossy hotel which will be a bit more
familiar to me, I would say, no, come and do
(22:06):
the Read. Stay because you will be made to feel
so welcome, and because it's a bit like visiting a
place when you know people who live there, when you
have friends there, and they'll tell you the really great
places to go that are perhaps you wouldn't find on
the tourist maps, and that's what this place gives you,
(22:29):
being able to step below the surface really immediately as
soon as you.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Arrive and have a genuinely, very authentic feeling and experience.
We do ask all of our guests on the podcast
to tell us their favorite, so we will be doing
that with you later. The other thing I'd love to
know your thoughts on because I'm in a creative industry
and I think that Marrakesh to me is an amazing
city to come to and just be inspired. And sometimes
(22:57):
creativity is born out of an opportunity of seeing or
experiencing something that starts a new idea, which, of course,
in your world is exactly the kind of key ingredient
writing a great book, I'm sure, But equally it sometimes
creativity is borne through just changing your norm and for
a flight that's three hours away from Europe, this city
(23:17):
does that in an exceptional way.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Totally. Absolutely. It's one of the most accessible, really truly
different places that will shake you out of your comfort
zone that there is for certainly for people living in
Northern Europe.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
This isn't necessarily too Marraques related or Morocco related. But
I'd love to know the process that you go through
to write a book. I've always wondered and never had
an opportunity to ask. So now I've got the opportunity
I am going to ask, but effectually, like, how do
you even begin from the very kind of first stage
of going I'm going to write a book about this?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah? Will you touched on it with the last question,
which is about create that point about creativity. Very often
you'll find that spark or that idea when you're not
looking for it. It's a little bit like you know,
if you're searching for something and you can't find it
and you sort of look away, you'll find it. And
(24:16):
that very often happens. I mean, actually it happened with
the first spark of inspiration for the storyteller of Casablanca.
I'd written previous novels about World War Two based in France,
and I received an email from a reader in America,
an elderly gentleman who said that he'd loved my books
(24:38):
and he liked the way that they were written, and
that the way the stories were told, and that he
wished someone would tell the story of his wife's experience
as a young refugee in Casablanca during World War two.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And I hadn't done any research particularly about that particular
period in North Africa, and it was his email, that
sort of throwaway remark that sent me off on this
on this search, and I uncovered, you know, a wealth
of wonderful characters and very moving stories as well from
(25:14):
that period of time. So the very first thing is
that little spark. And I've got loads of those kind
of ideas. Some of them are stashed away in folders
at home and may never see the light of day,
but some of them will will find their moment and
you know, through the sort of synergy of letting them
bubble away. I call it composting. You have to let
(25:37):
things sort of break down and rot and then and
compost away and then something good will hopefully grow out
of them and in my case, hopefully book. So that's
that's where the very first spark of inspiration comes from.
And yes, coming to a place like this, you're going
to pick up loads of those little quirky thoughts and ideas.
(25:57):
I then usually I will then spare and at least
three months researching. So obviously with the story tour of
Casablanca that was slightly turned upside down because I couldn't
physically visit Morocco. But normally I would visit the country
where I'm setting the book, and I would try and
get below the surface of that country, spend those three
(26:22):
months researching as widely as I can, reading around my subject,
and then I'll begin writing. So I'll usually i'll have
I'll have a rough outline, and I usually have to
have submitted a synopsis to my publisher to be given
a contract to write the book. So I will have
(26:42):
a beginning, a middle, and an end. That's not to
say those won't change, because they may well change, depending
which other rabbit holes I go off down that my
research might take me down. But yes, about nine months,
a bit like having a baby. Nine months to write
the book, and then lots and lots and lots of editing.
(27:04):
I edit myself several several times, and then it goes
into the hands of other editors who usually find loads
more for me to change.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
And when you do finish a book, in you, I
guess hit that send button. Do you have a sense
of relief? Are you sad? Almost because it's closing the
chapter on in a world that you've probably loved spending times.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Typically the emotion that you go through, it's.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
That real mixture that you've touched on. There. There is
huge relief I've managed to do this. I've managed to
write another one. You know, Hopefully now I can send
it off into the world and people will love it,
look out for it and be nice to it, and
hopefully it will enrich people's lives. But there is a
sense of almost grieving really that you're leaving those characters behind.
(27:53):
And nowadays, quite often I'm almost immediately moving on to
the next I'm going to be writing, so I don't
have that much time to kind of linger. It tends
to be a fairly swift transition. But it's probably very
telling that in quite a few of my books, I
go back and I revisit characters. So several of my
(28:17):
books are that they're all stand alone, but they can
be very much linked through time, place and characters. So
that probably shows you how lowth I am to let
my characters go. I always want to come back and
see how they're getting on.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Well, if they are a part of you that's here
now in Marrakesh, and almost imagining the characters of that book,
and you almost can can pit to them here.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Very much so the modern day characters in that book,
they are telling their own story. They have their own
arc of storytelling that goes on within that book. And
when we leave them, we leave them at a point
where there's hope for the future. Don't quite know, you know,
the ends aren't all tied up. So yes, as I'm
(29:05):
walking around, I am imagining them here and really hoping
that they're well and happy, and you know that their
lives have have have gone on to richer and happier times.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Mike, I think. I mean, it's amazing. This is such
an interesting conversation. Do you having had so many guests
over the years, thousands and thousands of guests that have stayed.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
You're going to ask me to compare to my children? Now,
no me, do it, alady, given you.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Don't worry.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
What I'm actually going to say is how how do
you almost reflect on the opportunities that that Morocco gives
to your guests? Because as much as it is about
having a wonderful bunch of reads, and of course there's
a business element to it as well, how rewarding is
it where your houses are able to give these experiences
to the guests.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
I think it's it's amazing, you know. And we have
people who've been through really important parts of their life,
and people who've met their life partner here, people proposed here,
people you know, and it's just you know, all of
life happened and sad things too. People have been through,
you know, come here after illness and recovering and maybe
(30:20):
don't recover, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Actually, if I can just chip in there, because I've
got another great story about that. Mike and Lucy very
generously gave as an auction lot for another charity that
I was involved with back in Scotland. They gave a
read stay as an auction lot, and it was one
(30:42):
by a good friend of mine who lives in the
same village that I live in another mic actually, and
he bid very determinedly on it. He was wheelchair band
he had a terminal illness, but he wanted to but
to win the lot for his wife and daughters, and
(31:06):
he actually passed away before they had a chance to
come here. Mike was extremely understanding and because you know,
obviously time had elapsed, circumstances had taken over. He still
honored that auction lot, and they came, but their visit
(31:29):
here was something different than they had first anticipated, and
that Mike, their father, and her husband had anticipated, because
when they came here, he'd already gone that he'd bought
this stay for them, to give them this adventure, to
send them here, although he wasn't there to see it,
(31:50):
And I know that you gave them the most wonderful time.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
And I'm assuming their experience was ever more special as
a result of that.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, I think it was. They were absolutely wild by it. Again,
they were quite a little bit overwhelmed, a little bit anxious.
I think that the anticipation of coming. But I just
said to them, you're going to be fine. You just
don't get read star. Mike and Lucy will be there.
You'll be absolutely fine. And you did. You and your
staff gave them the most brilliant trip. But it was
(32:20):
just to pick up on that thing about there's great joy,
but there are also poignant times. All life is here.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Yeah, no, absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about Little
sherper Actually.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yes, well that was the Little Sherpa Foundation was the
charity that the auction was being held for, and I
got involved as a patron of that charity because I
wrote a book set in Nepal, and that was another
throwaway line that one composted away for a very long
number of years. I was working as a volunteer in
(32:52):
a garden quite near where I now live, and it's
called the Explorer's Garden at Pittlockill Theater, and it is
the garden there is divided up into different sections and
each one is themed around a different plant hunter, the
Scottish plant hunters, you know, from the sort of turn
(33:14):
of the twentieth century, the heyday of plant hunting. And
I was weeding away there among the Himalayan poppies and
the rhododendrons, and I said, where are all the women?
Because they were all male. There are fourteen male plant
hunters commemorated, no women. And the answer from the garden manager,
who was a woman, came back that there were female
(33:35):
plant hunters, but they were very much underrepresented and their
stories were very much under recorded, So that one bubbled
away for a while. I then, as you do, bumped
into one of my neighbors who turned out to be
involved with setting up the Little Sherpa Foundation had strong
links with Nepal, and I said, I am thinking of
(33:56):
writing this book. It's been bubbling away for a while,
but its time has now come. I want to go
to Nepal and do some research there and write this
novel about female plant hunters. And so yes, I've become
very much involved with the Little Sherper Foundation and Mike,
I don't think I asked you. I think you knew
(34:18):
that we were having this event and you've you've volunteered
the Read Stay as a as an auction.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Over the last number of years we've raised Ollie, what
was the charity that we donated.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
There's actually been a few, to be honest, that various things.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
There was there was a hospital in Milton Kings in
the UK involved with a fundraising. So we've raised, you know,
a lot of money over well. I think the thing
what we do is I think, you know, a read Stay.
It's quite an exciting thing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You know?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
And I think that if you're having a charity dinner
or whatever, it just creates that little bit of gives
that little bit of a spark and a little bit
of imagining. We supply some nice images and you know,
abs and it gives a reason for people to maybe
you know, dig a little bit deeper or you know,
knowing that all the money is going to charity. And yes,
(35:08):
the other thing which we have been known to do
is to catch them out by giving it so if
it patches a certain point, you have one for the underbid, which.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Actually is exactly what you did this time around two.
So your generosity and read Star here has raised a
load of money for the little share for foundation.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
But well, it was the donors who gave them money.
Was well, we gave them an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yes, you gave them the opportunity, and then we strong
armed them interbidding for it. But you know that there's
an example of this world that we live in and
how what goes around comes around. I was mentioning earlier
about this sort of karma and synergy that seems to
come from putting yourself out there a bit. And you
(35:52):
know there's there's a completely unforeseen link that we ad
Star is now connected with this village high up in
the Himalayas.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Well. Let's take the opportunity to invite any of our
listeners who are involved with charities to approach us, and
we like to say yes, I mean I think what
I would say, and something we've touched on, is that
it's important to us that the if we are going
to offer a real stay for charity, that the person
who has who ends up with the price, has chosen
(36:21):
it because the Medina is you know, there are wonderful
hotels in Marrakesh and villas and apartments or whatever, and
actually the Madina is very full on and it's not
for everybody. And we find that our guests do self select.
They understand, you know, they do their research and there
and they so the right people will find us. So
I wouldn't like you to take a stay at reared
(36:41):
Start and raffle it. I would like you to auction it.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. It does need to be something
that people will positively want to bid for.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
And I think what we were saying earlier, which has
kind of been been sat in my mind, is the
joy and the sad times and people's experience of coming here.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
But I think there's almost a.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Part of visiting Marrakesh that gives you an opportunity really
to live life to the full, because it's very rare
that you get a chance to go somewhere that makes
you feel and think all these different things. You can
go on holidays, and you can go on a European
break somewhere and you might enjoy some nice food and
(37:26):
if you're from Scotland or the UK, enjoy some hotter
temperatures some m d but very rarely do you go
somewhere and you know, you might experience a museum. But
it's almost like just stepping into the Medina is in
itself like an admission ticket to the most unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
There's a real sense of possibility. Yeah, you know, it's
not a deception.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, yeah. And I think that there is that sense
of sort of stripping away the layers that we build
up and being a to be whoever you really want
to be. And that's something that you know, you think
back to the hippie days and people coming here and
sort of you know, dropping out and coming here. But
(38:11):
I think that there was something about this place even
back then that made people feel that they could leave
behind all the constructs that we put in place in
our everyday lives and the stresses and strains and so
on of how we live, especially nowadays, and that is
all sort of stripped away here because of the nature of.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
The place, and I also think that it's a place
that does, to an extent change you a little bit,
and that sounds deep and meaningful. But I don't think
that after traveling to Marrakesh, you go home and just
return to life in the same way.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
There's a level of appreciation.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
For all of the little things that perhaps you take
for granted because you see a lot of struggle walking
around the Mid Dina.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
It's not, you know, all roses. There's definitely there's a
lot of Yeah, there's a lot of struggle.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, all life is here, and that's the good, the bad,
the ugly, you know, the joyous, the sad, the wonderful
restaurants and food, but also the fact that you're You'll
see beggars on the streets who can't eat, you know,
don't have enough to eat. You'll see little skinny cats.
And I'm a great cut lover, and not least when
I go home, I lecture my cats at home, say
(39:25):
you better understand how lucky you are. So yeah, all
life is here, and it does. It's a good reminder
if you need a reminder, or it's a good life
lesson just coming here and immersing yourself in it.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
And feeling yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
And I we've only been here a handful of times, really,
but Mike, you've clearly, over the years spent a little
bit of time Americas. All of the things that your
guests explain and say, and all of the things that
we've talked about today, is that something that you find
yourself ever taking for granted or ever gets old or
(40:03):
actually is it every time you step here?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
What I would say is I think it's an exchange.
It really is. You know, we've got a lot of
guests who are coming, might be the first time they've
been to Africa, might be the first time they've been
to a Muslim country. We you know, we feel very
good about, you know, investing our money and our energy
here on the African side of the Mediterranean and creating
(40:28):
employment here for builders and people, you know, being part
of this thriving industry and thriving economy here. And I think,
you know, there's no doubt that our guests are you know,
a part of that, you know, and the revival of
the city, the revival of the crafts around these lovely buildings,
and the skills are satiated with that that all of
the rival of storytelling the revival of you know, the art,
(40:54):
increased respect for the for those arts, you know, the
fact that henery artists can make make a living using
those those skills. All of that wouldn't be possible without
the without the tourists you choose to choose to come here.
So I think it's I think it's very much a
two way, very much a two way straight.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
As we do near the end of this podcast, and
it's one I think we can probably sit here for
the next five hours, but the three of us got
a party to.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Go to you tonight, so we should probably start to
wrap up.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
We ask all of our guests to tell us their
favorite spots, and that the places that they recommend people
going to the most. Sophia, what's your recommendation?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Well, again, very very hard to choose. I think one
of the places that stays in my memory is a
visit to the Jadon de Majerille, the evesant Laurent Garden,
which is beautiful and again an oasis of peace and
calm amid the chaos that is out there. Also a
(42:04):
visit to the main square, whose name I can never pronounce.
I'm going to let Mike pronounce it. There we are,
although I do avoid the snake charmers because I can't
stand snakes, but you know, again, full on a walk
through the Souk. In terms of watering holes, I'm going
to recommend two very different ones. One is literally just
(42:28):
around the corner from where we are in read Star,
and it's the World Storytelling Cafe, and it's a really
beautiful spot. It's full of very fascinating, interesting people telling
their stories who come there from all over, and the
food is really beautiful. It's you know, lovely locally sourced,
(42:50):
imaginative vecan as well vegan. Yes, beautiful, great spot and
just around the corner from read Star, so you don't
if you're staying here, you don't have to venture very far.
The other place that I'm going to recommend is a
complete contrast. It's a restaurant in town and I probably
wouldn't even be able to tell you exactly where it was,
(43:11):
because I think I was taken there late one night,
and if I could remember the way on the way there,
I certainly wouldn't be able to remember the way on
the way back. It's called barromet, like you know, the
French word for barometer, and I remember it as a
as a sort of almost underground dive. I think you
go down some steps to get into it. It's down
(43:32):
in a basement, very atmospheric. They do amazing food, the
most fabulous cocktails, all beautifully presented. And one really top
tip that I'm going to share with the female listeners
is go to the Ladies' Loo, because it is quite
an experience. The way they've decorated it is absolutely hilarious.
(43:55):
And I shall leave it at that so that people
can put it on their list and go and visit.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Well, Mike and I can't quite relate to the female toilet,
but the other recommendation we can give about that is
the cocktail, which is called the Conversation. I was just
looking at my phone at the last time I went
there to have a look, and what an unbelievable contraption
this is, with dry eyes just pouring out of this
briefcase in which they presented the cocktail. So it is
(44:23):
the conversation, isn't it, Mike, Absolutely, which effectively is what
it's what it says. It is you have a conversation
with the unbelievably and talented mixologist about what you like,
what you don't like. They go away, and about five
minutes later you get presented something that just tastes amazing.
But to your point of not remembering the journey back,
(44:45):
I do remember watching them make it and there was
a rather significant number of spirits that were going into it.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
So yeah, a cocktail. Make sure you've got nothing too
important to do after a trip there.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Well, if the only thank you so much for your insight,
for indulging me with learning how to make a book,
a write a book, and sharing some amazing experiences and
memories of this wonderful city.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Well, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today,
and it's an absolute pleasure coming here and staying here
and meeting such great people. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
And of course this podcast is being recorded in July
twenty twenty five, but the beauty of podcasts, people could
be listening to this in the very distant future in
ten years time, who knows. But you do have a
new book that's coming out, The Dark of the Moon.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
The Dark of the Moon comes out in September this year,
September twenty twenty five. I've gone back to France with
that one, so yes, that one is ready to go
and At the moment, I'm actually researching and writing the
next book, which has taken me to some very different
places Norway and Shetland. Wow, I've done my time in
(45:58):
the cold and it's very nice to be in a
bit of Marrakesh heat.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Absolutely, and of course The Storyteller of Casablanca is a
book that you just absolutely have to read as well. Fiona,
thank you so much for coming on the Maracas Read podcast.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
My pleasure.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Thanks, thank you.
Hello, and welcome to the Marracus Read Podcast. And Mike,
this is this is an exciting episode, isn't it? Absolutely
because we welcome best selling author Fiona Valpi to the
Marracus Read Podcast. Fiona, thank you so much for being
on this episode with us.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Well, thank you for having me. And it's amazing to
be here recording it sitting in beautiful read Star. But
not only that, here we are in Josephine Baker's dressing
up room in read Star.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And I mean, this is the most perfect location for
a podcast with yourself. Mike, do you want to just
give context to the room that we're in and then
we can maybe explain exactly why that this is such
a special word to have, Fion room.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, So we're sitting in the what was the dining room. Actually,
this house, we believe in the nineteen forties is a
wonderful fireplace and incredible mirrors, and we're looking at a
Fiona and I are looking on the back of Ollie's
head towards the rail which has clothing on it which
(01:01):
was from the Casino de Paris. Most of it has
been worn on stage. It's costumes which our guests can
use to dress up. We have period dinner parties here
and so it's very interactive and very very fun and
of course you know, completely.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Authentic, absolutely, and Fiona, the storyteller of Casablanca, and the
reason as to why, obviously this is such a perfect
place for you to be in features Josephine Baker quite
quite heavily.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
And it does.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And I think you said to me earlier she is
one of your biggest parents.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
She absolutely is. I didn't set out to have Josephine
Baker as a particularly key character in the book when
I began writing it, but it was just that as
I did the research and found out more and more
about her and her life, but most importantly her role
(01:53):
during World War Two, and you know, the story of
what brought her here to Morocco and what she then
did on behalf of the Allies, on behalf of France,
the country that she loved, her adopted country, is quite
mind boggling. She really became a resistance fighter during the
(02:13):
war and she used her stardom, this tremendous stardom that
she gained through her appearances in the top venues in
Paris as a really a burlursque dancer and a singer.
So I think people underestimated her because that's what they saw,
you know, they saw this sort of scantily clad, beautiful,
(02:34):
dancing and singing star. But she used that to cover
up her clandestine operations during World War Two. So as
I was writing the book The Storyteller of Casablanca, which
is a dual timeline novel set between Casablanca and World
War Two and Casablanca in the modern day, Josephine kind
(02:55):
of muscled in and created a whole sort of thing.
Read of the story for herself.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Mike, you must have because of this house, got to
know Josephine's story, and I'm sure and.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Cover loads and loads about her life.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Well, let me tell you how we learned that Josephine
lived here because when we bought the house because we
loved the architecture. So the history of the house is
and I have mentioned this on previous podcasts. I ain't
go into too much detail, but it's attached to what
is now the Museum of Marrakesh, which used to be
the Mnimbi Palace and in the nineteen thirties it was
(03:33):
renovated as guest accommodation. So there's an art deco feel
to the woodwork here and some of the decor which
it's completely of that time. And Josephine lived here as
a guest. She was never the owner of this house.
She was a guest of the Pasha for the pier
that she lived here and then later the pier that
she was based here when she traveled extensively doing troop performances.
(03:55):
We were actually so we bought this wonderful house, but
not completely understanding this history, and we started its renovation,
and it was a renovation. We tried to retain as
much as we could of the original features. And we,
as one does, knocked on the neighbour's doors and let
them know we were going to do some work and
drank the mint tea and they had an important event
one day. Whatever, please, let's own advance. Will try to
(04:16):
minimize work. Let's work together and make this as as
easy as it can be. And we have we're having
such a great conversation with the neighbor on the right
hand side behind the wall here sadly has passed away
now in his eighties. Had a wonderful conversation with him,
and he asked, and I've never been asked by a Moroccan,
(04:37):
any Moroccan what I was going to call the real renovating.
And we said we're kind of called it Red Star,
and we were kind of called it Red Star because
our daughter suggested that that would be a good name
and also be you know, businessman, it's not a bad
nigme for a hotel of podless searching, you know, for
star accommodations, comination. So that was the plan, and he's
(05:00):
that would be because of the big star who used
to live there. That was where we started, and then
we started, you know, inquiring or whatever. And the folk
memory of Josephine is of she used to of course,
being Josephine, have the kids in running in and out
of the house, and she would give them sweets, and
(05:22):
she give them plaster scene apparently and they'll play. And
we talked to several of those kids who have and
they don't remember her as an international star or as
a guest of the Pasha or she was just for
her humanity and her warmth and the welcome that she
that she gave. So yeah, that was our introduction to Josephine.
(05:43):
And we have been able to you know, we've met
several of her adopted children. We went to We've been
to New York. Have you been to show Josephine in
New York? No? Absolutely, amazing, amazing, And well, I think
once you make that connection, it's so compelling that it's
(06:06):
you know, you really could lose yourself in it.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
And I think that you know, you were talking about
doing the restoration and doing it very sympathetically, but I
think you absolutely have captured that feeling of her presence
here as well, without it becoming a sort of Disneyland,
you know, without it becoming pastiche Well, it's kind of.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
You to say that. I mean, it's very it's very
lived in. You know, I think if you Josephine is
definitely here, but equally a lot of our guests, don't
you know, they're not coming for that and they're not
looking for it, and you know it's actually a lovely Moroccan,
very welcoming guests.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes, absolutely, but it's.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
About it's about keeping that tradition alive, isn't it?
Speaker 4 (06:50):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And I want to get onto a story which will
start with how you two met, because actually it then
finishes this story with Josephine's son hearing. An excerpt from
the book. So the two of you met through the
British Moroccan Society, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yes, Yeah, that's right. I'd written the book The Story
to Casablanca, and to my absolute shame, I didn't manage
to visit Morocco while I was doing my research. And
I take a very dim view of any author who
writes a book and doesn't do their research properly on
the ground. But in my defense, it was written during
(07:29):
twenty twenty when we were in lockdown, and I did
try to organize a research trip to Morocco on three
different occasions, and each time they were canceled because of
lockdown and so on. So I had to get quite
creative with the way I did my research, and I
wrote the book and it came out, and then I
(07:50):
was contacted by Richard Hamilton who told me that he
had bought a copy of the Big Issue outside the
BBC as he was heading in, and in that copy
of the Big Issue there was an article about my book,
The Storyteller of Casablanca, because one of the key themes
of the book is refugees, refugees during World War Two.
(08:14):
But I was also then drawing parallels with the you
know the current situation that we have, particularly in Europe
with refugees crossing the Mediterranean and so on, and so
Richard said, would I like to come along and talk
about my book to the British Moroccan Society, And I
took a big, deep breath and said that yes I would,
(08:34):
but making it very plain that I hadn't actually visited Morocco,
and I knew that every single person in the room
would be an expert on Morocco. So my knees were
shaking a little bit as I as I did that session.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
But you were there like, well, I'm the current chair
of the British Moor. Not know who I was there,
But I was on the on the the sitting in
front of the audience with Richard who led the session,
and I was sitting on my hands with excitement really
because what I knew at that point in Vienna didn't
was that it was that we had Josephine.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yes, Mike announced that to me, I think, right at
the end of the session and said you must come
and stay. So there was a brilliant invitation, and in fact,
he and Lucy then followed that up with an invitation
to come and stay here in Riad Star, but also
(09:32):
to take part in the Storytelling Festival in twenty twenty four.
So yeah, it was an absolute dream come true.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
And as part of that, there was one particular guest
who I'm sure that you were slightly nervous about presenting to.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Absolutely. Brian Baker was there, one of Josephine's sons. She
adopted twelve children, and she called them her Rainbow tribe.
She couldn't have she had her and so she, being Josephine,
she just went ahead and created this family for herself.
And they were children from all different backgrounds and faiths
(10:11):
and you know, racial backgrounds, cultural backgrounds, and she brought
them all together as her Rainbow tribe. And Brian is
one of those children. And he was here now growing up,
of course, because he had just i think re released
a biography of his mother exactly, and so he and
(10:31):
I were appearing in this session for the Storytelling Festival.
And during that session I was asked to do a reading,
and I thought, well, in for a penny, in for
a pound, I'll just read a small section of the book,
but the one that talks about Josephine. So I had
this kind of out of body experience this surreal moment
(10:52):
where I was reading from my book about Brian's mother
with kind of thoughts and words that I'd put into
her head and her mouth, hoping that he would find
it acceptable. And he was lovely. At the end he
not only said that he had loved it, but best
(11:13):
of all for me, he said that she would have
loved it.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
Wow. And how did that feel in that moment?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Oh? Just incredible. That was my first time coming to Morocco,
first time in Marrakesh, first time seeing read Star, taking
part in that storytelling festival which brings together people from
all literally all over the world, but especially having Brian there.
(11:39):
I felt it was the closest I would ever get
to actually meeting Josephine and spending time in her company.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
And with all of that in mind, and all of
the experiences and people you've met in conversations, then that's
happened since writing this book. You must have a real
almost feeling of deep connection to this wonderful novel. That's
then a lot all of these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Absolutely, I do you know, as a writer, I shouldn't
have favorites. It's a bit like being asked to pick
a favorite Child, which I would never ever do. But
I really do feel that The Storyteller of Casablanca is
one of the books that I've written that is particularly
close to my heart, partly, as you say, because of
(12:21):
the doors it's opened up for me and the way
that that book has enriched my life. You know, novelists,
we tend to write to try and enrich other people's lives.
That that one has sort of set up this circular
bit of karma where it's you know, enriched my life
and repaid all the hard work and the blood, sweat
(12:44):
and tears that I put into it several hundredfold.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Which is which is absolutely phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And the thing you mentioned there was the World Storytelling Festival,
So what was your experience of that beyond just the
session that you did being part of that and how
special it was?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It was fantastic, stick you know. You somehow those who
organize it, and Mike is one of the absolute pillars
of that organization. They managed to bring together I don't know, hundreds,
a couple of hundred people from all over the world
and organize all these events all over Marrakesh. I mean,
(13:20):
what could possibly go wrong? And they find accommodation for everybody,
give everyone the most wonderful time. So yeah, it was
just a spectacularly wonderful event. And I think it was
kind of like diving in at the deep end into
the pool that is Morocco and that is Marrakesh, because
(13:41):
the storytelling is so colorful and vivid that Marrakesh is
so full on at the same time in terms of
that color and that you know, the beauty, the chaos,
the decay, but this sort of tremendous feeling of optimism
and hope and joy that comes from this city.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
And the process that you went through to write the book.
We were talking just before pressing the record. Batton was
one of because you couldn't actually visit, you ended up
watching videos that were hours long and people recording themselves
walking through.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
That's crazy, and that's really how you got to understand
the city.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
And the country.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I had to think a little bit wider about the
research I did, so I, you know, one has access
to all the usual sources like good old Google and
the Internet and certain reference books. I read very much
more widely some Moroccan based literature as well to be
(14:41):
able to sort of broaden my impressions I won't quite
say knowledge, but certainly my impressions of the country and
be able to absorb that. But you're right, one of
the best sources, which I don't think most people would
have the patients to watch, but very very very long
(15:02):
videos which had been uploaded by individual tourists who'd visited
parts of Morocco. They probably those videos would probably be
really interesting to them and their friends and family, but
nobody else on the planet because they are unedited, and
it's so for example, walking through the soup, they're just
(15:24):
filming absolutely everything. But that was what I wanted. I
wanted to put myself there to see the dust, the dirt,
the rubbish, the decay, the stalls selling animal heads, but
also the richness of beauty and the you know, the
spices and the incredible leatherwork and so on, that sort
(15:49):
of full on experience that you would have. So I
spent many a happy hour immersing myself in those videos.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And so what I'd love to know is that when
you go through the writing process, you effectively put yourself
into this world. So as you were writing, do you
always close your eyes and imagine yourself to be there.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Without even closing my eyes. I am there, absolutely, and
it's strange because you know, I can sometimes I'll come
to the end of my writing day and it almost
feels that the reality of sitting in my home in Scotland,
that that's unreal because it's been so real where I've
(16:34):
put myself and you know, spending time with my characters
that the author Frederick Beckman once said, don't expect authors
to be well balanced people. We spend ten hours a
day locked away with people that we've made up. So
that's what I do, and that you, you know, you
get really drawn into it. And I think that when
I do get that feeling, I get quite excited because
(16:57):
I think if I'm if I feel that I'm living this,
then hopefully that's what I'm giving to the reader as well.
If I'm able to then communicate that on the page,
I'm going to give the reader that experience of being here,
of living this, of interacting with my characters.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And I'm fascinated to then know, when you first stepped
into Barrakesh for the first time, having explored it through
imagination for such a long period, was there a sense
of nervousness that what you'd effectively imagined it to be,
and built it to be and written it to be.
(17:35):
Might there not be how you felt an experience when
you stepped here for the first time properly.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, definitely, there was that sense of nervous anticipation. You
know what, if I got here and I thought, oh,
I got it all wrong, or I left something really
important out as well, I'd already had this really nice
feedback from everyone at the British Moroccan Society said that
they that I hadn't made any awful, you know, bloopers
(18:04):
in the book. But I think it's that sense of
having having not done justice to the place and not
done justice to the characters that I was a bit
nervous about so far. I think it's okay. I think
I I'm not sure that there's anything I would have
done written differently if I had managed to come here.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Mike, I think the use of okay feels like someone's
being rather modest. I think I think it's a rather
wonderful capture.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Don't you think Piano is an doubtedly extremely.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Modest Yeah, I mean it's a it's an incredible book
and definitely something that's well worth reading. And so then
since kind of your first time in Marrakesh. Obviously you've
been back on several occasions. Again, is this a place
that you've then truly fallen in love with?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah? Absolutely, And I think I think it surprised me
how how much I love it. I you know, I mean,
I was expecting to find it really fascinating as a
place to visit, especially having done the research sort of upfront.
But no, every time I come, I'm I'm blown away
(19:16):
by just how wonderful this place is in its entirety.
You know, it is chaotic, it's hot, it's smelly, it's
full on. It's the minute your walk you start walking
through the streets and you're having to jump out of
the way of the motorbikes and the you know, the
people trying to sell your things and all of that.
(19:38):
It's it's absolutely full.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
On all the senses, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
So you talked about the visual aspect which you are
from your your walk through the Souk, but actually what
you didn't get realized is the next smell that could
be fresh mint, or it could be a.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Drain or yeah, or the spices, you know, all those.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Absolutely, it is really really full on there's a lot
to take in and I think I mean, I'm a
solow traveler, so that can be quite nerve wracking coming
to a new place, and perhaps especially to a country
like Morocco which you know is going to be full
on like that. But I think that that's one of
the huge advantages of coming and staying in a read
(20:20):
like wead Star, because you're greeted as you walk through
the door, You're greeted by the staff saying welcome home,
and from that moment on you're made to feel that
you are genuine. You know, this is a home. This
is a little oasis of peace and calm and beauty
(20:40):
and coolness in the summer and warmth in the winter
when you need it, within the wonderful chaos that is
just outside that door.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Absolutely, and the kind of break from the chaos and
the serenity that you have the moment that the door
closes behind you for me, never go it's old. I
think also we should note that recording this in July
twenty twenty five and it's forty two degrees outside.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
The air conditioning helps as well.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Absolutely, it's most welcome, especially when you come from Scotland
like me. And you just start to wilt.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Yeah, the cold temperatures makes you feel at home.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I think there's something that if you only touched on there,
which is really important.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
There.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
There's something about the architecture of the read and the
layout of the read which does help people to interact.
So you will find that you know you're making new
friends here. At breakfast, you'll be talking to people who've
been here a couple of days more who will tell
you about the great restaurant or the garden they visited,
or the excursion they enjoyed or whatever. So it is
it is. I think it really does have the feeling
(21:44):
of staying with friends.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yes, most definitely. And you know, I would say to
anyone who's thinking of coming and perhaps traveling on their own,
or feeling a bit anxious about coming to this place,
and would this be the right experience. Should I stay
in a glossy hotel which will be a bit more
familiar to me, I would say, no, come and do
(22:06):
the Read. Stay because you will be made to feel
so welcome, and because it's a bit like visiting a
place when you know people who live there, when you
have friends there, and they'll tell you the really great
places to go that are perhaps you wouldn't find on
the tourist maps, and that's what this place gives you,
(22:29):
being able to step below the surface really immediately as
soon as you.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Arrive and have a genuinely, very authentic feeling and experience.
We do ask all of our guests on the podcast
to tell us their favorite, so we will be doing
that with you later. The other thing I'd love to
know your thoughts on because I'm in a creative industry
and I think that Marrakesh to me is an amazing
city to come to and just be inspired. And sometimes
(22:57):
creativity is born out of an opportunity of seeing or
experiencing something that starts a new idea, which, of course,
in your world is exactly the kind of key ingredient
writing a great book, I'm sure, But equally it sometimes
creativity is borne through just changing your norm and for
a flight that's three hours away from Europe, this city
(23:17):
does that in an exceptional way.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Totally. Absolutely. It's one of the most accessible, really truly
different places that will shake you out of your comfort
zone that there is for certainly for people living in
Northern Europe.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
This isn't necessarily too Marraques related or Morocco related. But
I'd love to know the process that you go through
to write a book. I've always wondered and never had
an opportunity to ask. So now I've got the opportunity
I am going to ask, but effectually, like, how do
you even begin from the very kind of first stage
of going I'm going to write a book about this?
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah? Will you touched on it with the last question,
which is about create that point about creativity. Very often
you'll find that spark or that idea when you're not
looking for it. It's a little bit like you know,
if you're searching for something and you can't find it
and you sort of look away, you'll find it. And
(24:16):
that very often happens. I mean, actually it happened with
the first spark of inspiration for the storyteller of Casablanca.
I'd written previous novels about World War Two based in France,
and I received an email from a reader in America,
an elderly gentleman who said that he'd loved my books
(24:38):
and he liked the way that they were written, and
that the way the stories were told, and that he
wished someone would tell the story of his wife's experience
as a young refugee in Casablanca during World War two.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And I hadn't done any research particularly about that particular
period in North Africa, and it was his email, that
sort of throwaway remark that sent me off on this
on this search, and I uncovered, you know, a wealth
of wonderful characters and very moving stories as well from
(25:14):
that period of time. So the very first thing is
that little spark. And I've got loads of those kind
of ideas. Some of them are stashed away in folders
at home and may never see the light of day,
but some of them will will find their moment and
you know, through the sort of synergy of letting them
bubble away. I call it composting. You have to let
(25:37):
things sort of break down and rot and then and
compost away and then something good will hopefully grow out
of them and in my case, hopefully book. So that's
that's where the very first spark of inspiration comes from.
And yes, coming to a place like this, you're going
to pick up loads of those little quirky thoughts and ideas.
(25:57):
I then usually I will then spare and at least
three months researching. So obviously with the story tour of
Casablanca that was slightly turned upside down because I couldn't
physically visit Morocco. But normally I would visit the country
where I'm setting the book, and I would try and
get below the surface of that country, spend those three
(26:22):
months researching as widely as I can, reading around my subject,
and then I'll begin writing. So I'll usually i'll have
I'll have a rough outline, and I usually have to
have submitted a synopsis to my publisher to be given
a contract to write the book. So I will have
(26:42):
a beginning, a middle, and an end. That's not to
say those won't change, because they may well change, depending
which other rabbit holes I go off down that my
research might take me down. But yes, about nine months,
a bit like having a baby. Nine months to write
the book, and then lots and lots and lots of editing.
(27:04):
I edit myself several several times, and then it goes
into the hands of other editors who usually find loads
more for me to change.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
And when you do finish a book, in you, I
guess hit that send button. Do you have a sense
of relief? Are you sad? Almost because it's closing the
chapter on in a world that you've probably loved spending times.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Typically the emotion that you go through, it's.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
That real mixture that you've touched on. There. There is
huge relief I've managed to do this. I've managed to
write another one. You know, Hopefully now I can send
it off into the world and people will love it,
look out for it and be nice to it, and
hopefully it will enrich people's lives. But there is a
sense of almost grieving really that you're leaving those characters behind.
(27:53):
And nowadays, quite often I'm almost immediately moving on to
the next I'm going to be writing, so I don't
have that much time to kind of linger. It tends
to be a fairly swift transition. But it's probably very
telling that in quite a few of my books, I
go back and I revisit characters. So several of my
(28:17):
books are that they're all stand alone, but they can
be very much linked through time, place and characters. So
that probably shows you how lowth I am to let
my characters go. I always want to come back and
see how they're getting on.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Well, if they are a part of you that's here
now in Marrakesh, and almost imagining the characters of that book,
and you almost can can pit to them here.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Very much so the modern day characters in that book,
they are telling their own story. They have their own
arc of storytelling that goes on within that book. And
when we leave them, we leave them at a point
where there's hope for the future. Don't quite know, you know,
the ends aren't all tied up. So yes, as I'm
(29:05):
walking around, I am imagining them here and really hoping
that they're well and happy, and you know that their
lives have have have gone on to richer and happier times.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Mike, I think. I mean, it's amazing. This is such
an interesting conversation. Do you having had so many guests
over the years, thousands and thousands of guests that have stayed.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
You're going to ask me to compare to my children? Now,
no me, do it, alady, given you.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Don't worry.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
What I'm actually going to say is how how do
you almost reflect on the opportunities that that Morocco gives
to your guests? Because as much as it is about
having a wonderful bunch of reads, and of course there's
a business element to it as well, how rewarding is
it where your houses are able to give these experiences
to the guests.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
I think it's it's amazing, you know. And we have
people who've been through really important parts of their life,
and people who've met their life partner here, people proposed here,
people you know, and it's just you know, all of
life happened and sad things too. People have been through,
you know, come here after illness and recovering and maybe
(30:20):
don't recover, you know.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Actually, if I can just chip in there, because I've
got another great story about that. Mike and Lucy very
generously gave as an auction lot for another charity that
I was involved with back in Scotland. They gave a
read stay as an auction lot, and it was one
(30:42):
by a good friend of mine who lives in the
same village that I live in another mic actually, and
he bid very determinedly on it. He was wheelchair band
he had a terminal illness, but he wanted to but
to win the lot for his wife and daughters, and
(31:06):
he actually passed away before they had a chance to
come here. Mike was extremely understanding and because you know,
obviously time had elapsed, circumstances had taken over. He still
honored that auction lot, and they came, but their visit
(31:29):
here was something different than they had first anticipated, and
that Mike, their father, and her husband had anticipated, because
when they came here, he'd already gone that he'd bought
this stay for them, to give them this adventure, to
send them here, although he wasn't there to see it,
(31:50):
And I know that you gave them the most wonderful time.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
And I'm assuming their experience was ever more special as
a result of that.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, I think it was. They were absolutely wild by it. Again,
they were quite a little bit overwhelmed, a little bit anxious.
I think that the anticipation of coming. But I just
said to them, you're going to be fine. You just
don't get read star. Mike and Lucy will be there.
You'll be absolutely fine. And you did. You and your
staff gave them the most brilliant trip. But it was
(32:20):
just to pick up on that thing about there's great joy,
but there are also poignant times. All life is here.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Yeah, no, absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about Little
sherper Actually.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yes, well that was the Little Sherpa Foundation was the
charity that the auction was being held for, and I
got involved as a patron of that charity because I
wrote a book set in Nepal, and that was another
throwaway line that one composted away for a very long
number of years. I was working as a volunteer in
(32:52):
a garden quite near where I now live, and it's
called the Explorer's Garden at Pittlockill Theater, and it is
the garden there is divided up into different sections and
each one is themed around a different plant hunter, the
Scottish plant hunters, you know, from the sort of turn
(33:14):
of the twentieth century, the heyday of plant hunting. And
I was weeding away there among the Himalayan poppies and
the rhododendrons, and I said, where are all the women?
Because they were all male. There are fourteen male plant
hunters commemorated, no women. And the answer from the garden manager,
who was a woman, came back that there were female
(33:35):
plant hunters, but they were very much underrepresented and their
stories were very much under recorded, So that one bubbled
away for a while. I then, as you do, bumped
into one of my neighbors who turned out to be
involved with setting up the Little Sherpa Foundation had strong
links with Nepal, and I said, I am thinking of
(33:56):
writing this book. It's been bubbling away for a while,
but its time has now come. I want to go
to Nepal and do some research there and write this
novel about female plant hunters. And so yes, I've become
very much involved with the Little Sherper Foundation and Mike,
I don't think I asked you. I think you knew
(34:18):
that we were having this event and you've you've volunteered
the Read Stay as a as an auction.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Over the last number of years we've raised Ollie, what
was the charity that we donated.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
There's actually been a few, to be honest, that various things.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
There was there was a hospital in Milton Kings in
the UK involved with a fundraising. So we've raised, you know,
a lot of money over well. I think the thing
what we do is I think, you know, a read Stay.
It's quite an exciting thing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You know?
Speaker 3 (34:48):
And I think that if you're having a charity dinner
or whatever, it just creates that little bit of gives
that little bit of a spark and a little bit
of imagining. We supply some nice images and you know,
abs and it gives a reason for people to maybe
you know, dig a little bit deeper or you know,
knowing that all the money is going to charity. And yes,
(35:08):
the other thing which we have been known to do
is to catch them out by giving it so if
it patches a certain point, you have one for the underbid, which.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
Actually is exactly what you did this time around two.
So your generosity and read Star here has raised a
load of money for the little share for foundation.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
But well, it was the donors who gave them money.
Was well, we gave them an opportunity.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yes, you gave them the opportunity, and then we strong
armed them interbidding for it. But you know that there's
an example of this world that we live in and
how what goes around comes around. I was mentioning earlier
about this sort of karma and synergy that seems to
come from putting yourself out there a bit. And you
(35:52):
know there's there's a completely unforeseen link that we ad
Star is now connected with this village high up in
the Himalayas.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
Well. Let's take the opportunity to invite any of our
listeners who are involved with charities to approach us, and
we like to say yes, I mean I think what
I would say, and something we've touched on, is that
it's important to us that the if we are going
to offer a real stay for charity, that the person
who has who ends up with the price, has chosen
(36:21):
it because the Medina is you know, there are wonderful
hotels in Marrakesh and villas and apartments or whatever, and
actually the Madina is very full on and it's not
for everybody. And we find that our guests do self select.
They understand, you know, they do their research and there
and they so the right people will find us. So
I wouldn't like you to take a stay at reared
(36:41):
Start and raffle it. I would like you to auction it.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. It does need to be something
that people will positively want to bid for.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
And I think what we were saying earlier, which has
kind of been been sat in my mind, is the
joy and the sad times and people's experience of coming here.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
But I think there's almost a.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Part of visiting Marrakesh that gives you an opportunity really
to live life to the full, because it's very rare
that you get a chance to go somewhere that makes
you feel and think all these different things. You can
go on holidays, and you can go on a European
break somewhere and you might enjoy some nice food and
(37:26):
if you're from Scotland or the UK, enjoy some hotter
temperatures some m d but very rarely do you go
somewhere and you know, you might experience a museum. But
it's almost like just stepping into the Medina is in
itself like an admission ticket to the most unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
There's a real sense of possibility. Yeah, you know, it's
not a deception.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, yeah. And I think that there is that sense
of sort of stripping away the layers that we build
up and being a to be whoever you really want
to be. And that's something that you know, you think
back to the hippie days and people coming here and
sort of you know, dropping out and coming here. But
(38:11):
I think that there was something about this place even
back then that made people feel that they could leave
behind all the constructs that we put in place in
our everyday lives and the stresses and strains and so
on of how we live, especially nowadays, and that is
all sort of stripped away here because of the nature of.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
The place, and I also think that it's a place
that does, to an extent change you a little bit,
and that sounds deep and meaningful. But I don't think
that after traveling to Marrakesh, you go home and just
return to life in the same way.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
There's a level of appreciation.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
For all of the little things that perhaps you take
for granted because you see a lot of struggle walking
around the Mid Dina.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
It's not, you know, all roses. There's definitely there's a
lot of Yeah, there's a lot of struggle.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, all life is here, and that's the good, the bad,
the ugly, you know, the joyous, the sad, the wonderful
restaurants and food, but also the fact that you're You'll
see beggars on the streets who can't eat, you know,
don't have enough to eat. You'll see little skinny cats.
And I'm a great cut lover, and not least when
I go home, I lecture my cats at home, say
(39:25):
you better understand how lucky you are. So yeah, all
life is here, and it does. It's a good reminder
if you need a reminder, or it's a good life
lesson just coming here and immersing yourself in it.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
And feeling yourself.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
And I we've only been here a handful of times, really,
but Mike, you've clearly, over the years spent a little
bit of time Americas. All of the things that your
guests explain and say, and all of the things that
we've talked about today, is that something that you find
yourself ever taking for granted or ever gets old or
(40:03):
actually is it every time you step here?
Speaker 3 (40:07):
What I would say is I think it's an exchange.
It really is. You know, we've got a lot of
guests who are coming, might be the first time they've
been to Africa, might be the first time they've been
to a Muslim country. We you know, we feel very
good about, you know, investing our money and our energy
here on the African side of the Mediterranean and creating
(40:28):
employment here for builders and people, you know, being part
of this thriving industry and thriving economy here. And I think,
you know, there's no doubt that our guests are you know,
a part of that, you know, and the revival of
the city, the revival of the crafts around these lovely buildings,
and the skills are satiated with that that all of
the rival of storytelling the revival of you know, the art,
(40:54):
increased respect for the for those arts, you know, the
fact that henery artists can make make a living using
those those skills. All of that wouldn't be possible without
the without the tourists you choose to choose to come here.
So I think it's I think it's very much a
two way, very much a two way straight.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
As we do near the end of this podcast, and
it's one I think we can probably sit here for
the next five hours, but the three of us got
a party to.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
Go to you tonight, so we should probably start to
wrap up.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
We ask all of our guests to tell us their
favorite spots, and that the places that they recommend people
going to the most. Sophia, what's your recommendation?
Speaker 2 (41:37):
Well, again, very very hard to choose. I think one
of the places that stays in my memory is a
visit to the Jadon de Majerille, the evesant Laurent Garden,
which is beautiful and again an oasis of peace and
calm amid the chaos that is out there. Also a
(42:04):
visit to the main square, whose name I can never pronounce.
I'm going to let Mike pronounce it. There we are,
although I do avoid the snake charmers because I can't
stand snakes, but you know, again, full on a walk
through the Souk. In terms of watering holes, I'm going
to recommend two very different ones. One is literally just
(42:28):
around the corner from where we are in read Star,
and it's the World Storytelling Cafe, and it's a really
beautiful spot. It's full of very fascinating, interesting people telling
their stories who come there from all over, and the
food is really beautiful. It's you know, lovely locally sourced,
(42:50):
imaginative vecan as well vegan. Yes, beautiful, great spot and
just around the corner from read Star, so you don't
if you're staying here, you don't have to venture very far.
The other place that I'm going to recommend is a
complete contrast. It's a restaurant in town and I probably
wouldn't even be able to tell you exactly where it was,
(43:11):
because I think I was taken there late one night,
and if I could remember the way on the way there,
I certainly wouldn't be able to remember the way on
the way back. It's called barromet, like you know, the
French word for barometer, and I remember it as a
as a sort of almost underground dive. I think you
go down some steps to get into it. It's down
(43:32):
in a basement, very atmospheric. They do amazing food, the
most fabulous cocktails, all beautifully presented. And one really top
tip that I'm going to share with the female listeners
is go to the Ladies' Loo, because it is quite
an experience. The way they've decorated it is absolutely hilarious.
(43:55):
And I shall leave it at that so that people
can put it on their list and go and visit.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Well, Mike and I can't quite relate to the female toilet,
but the other recommendation we can give about that is
the cocktail, which is called the Conversation. I was just
looking at my phone at the last time I went
there to have a look, and what an unbelievable contraption
this is, with dry eyes just pouring out of this
briefcase in which they presented the cocktail. So it is
(44:23):
the conversation, isn't it, Mike, Absolutely, which effectively is what
it's what it says. It is you have a conversation
with the unbelievably and talented mixologist about what you like,
what you don't like. They go away, and about five
minutes later you get presented something that just tastes amazing.
But to your point of not remembering the journey back,
(44:45):
I do remember watching them make it and there was
a rather significant number of spirits that were going into it.
Speaker 4 (44:52):
So yeah, a cocktail. Make sure you've got nothing too
important to do after a trip there.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Well, if the only thank you so much for your insight,
for indulging me with learning how to make a book,
a write a book, and sharing some amazing experiences and
memories of this wonderful city.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Well, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today,
and it's an absolute pleasure coming here and staying here
and meeting such great people. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
And of course this podcast is being recorded in July
twenty twenty five, but the beauty of podcasts, people could
be listening to this in the very distant future in
ten years time, who knows. But you do have a
new book that's coming out, The Dark of the Moon.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
The Dark of the Moon comes out in September this year,
September twenty twenty five. I've gone back to France with
that one, so yes, that one is ready to go
and At the moment, I'm actually researching and writing the
next book, which has taken me to some very different
places Norway and Shetland. Wow, I've done my time in
(45:58):
the cold and it's very nice to be in a
bit of Marrakesh heat.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Absolutely, and of course The Storyteller of Casablanca is a
book that you just absolutely have to read as well. Fiona,
thank you so much for coming on the Maracas Read podcast.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
My pleasure.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Thanks, thank you.
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