September 18, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of The Marrakech Riad Podcast, we sit down with Colin Bosworth, founder of Bosworth Property Management and chair of the British Business Association Morocco. With over 15 years of experience in Marrakech real estate, Colin shares his insights into buying and selling property of all sizes in the city — from charming riads to larger investments. He also draws on his business expertise to discuss what it’s really like to do business in Marrakech, offering valuable advice for anyone looking to invest, relocate, or build a business in this vibrant city.
The Marrakech Riad Podcast brings you tips, advice, and inspiring stories to help you make the most of your visit to Marrakech.
https://bosworthpropertymarrakech.com/
https://bbamorocco.ma/
The Marrakech Riad Podcast brings you tips, advice, and inspiring stories to help you make the most of your visit to Marrakech.
https://bosworthpropertymarrakech.com/
https://bbamorocco.ma/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Marrakesh Real Podcast. This is an
episode that I'm really excuitched about actually today. I think
this is going to be a really interesting one as
we are talking all about property in Marrakesh and that
is with Colin Bosworth. Hello Colin, and welcome to the
Marrakesh Real Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Lovely to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome of course, joined as well by Mike as we
always have. So the two of you are good friends
and having for about what fifteen years something?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah, getting on for that now, yeah, since twenty eleven.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And that's your mutual love of property in Marrakesh that's
brought you together.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And a mutual love of football.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah football all things to do with Marrakesh really, but
I know Mike is a big Leicester fan. I'm Arsenal,
so we do have the occasional joke about football. And yeah,
we're very happy with we are where we are. I'm
not sure if Lester are happy with they are.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, I think you're being very very modest there. Colin
is also a referee. We've reaped up to what second
second original? Wow?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, I mean the beautiful podcast is that they do
live on for absolutely ever and I hope that there
is going to be a world where someone is listening
to this podcast far into the future in Leicester City
and not in the Championship but instead back to being
European Premier League champions. But absolutely, yeah, I think we
might be wasting a few more years before we get
(01:19):
anywhere near to that. So let's about football more about property. Obviously, Mike,
you've been in Marrakesh for many, many years through property,
but I think really the kind of time that you've
been in this industry and working in here over the
last fifteen years, you must have just seen such a
transformation and change in the excitement around property and the
(01:41):
desire for it.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Absolutely. I mean when I arrived here, we were just
following the financial crash in two thousand and eight and
it was a fairly depressed market. A lot of people
basically had to disinvest in Marrakesh in order to pay
their debts in Europe or elsewhere, so it was very quiet,
but also a good time to arrive. I think when
you arrived somewhere flow swimming against the current, there are
a lot of advantages to that, and intuitively I just
(02:04):
saw Marrakesh as summer, which was going to happen, and
over the last fifteen years we've seen it really really
take off, and I would say specifically from about twenty
sixteen twenty seventeen we started to see an influx of
new investors and then that really took off in twenty nineteen,
and then of course we had COVID in twenty twenty
and to my somewhat to my surprise, I suppose suddenly
(02:26):
the market exploded. Everybody was stuck in their apartment or
their property in northern Europe in the cold and the rain,
looking out through the windows and thought, you know what,
I could actually be stuck on a terrace somewhere in
the sunshine, in my courtyard with my pool and whatever.
And we saw a huge upturn in interest during the lockdowns,
and then as soon as the borders were opened, we
(02:48):
saw prices immediately start to rise as people came in
looking for a good property in Marrakesh, starting in the Medina,
but then going all over the city, so whether that's
in Gilles and Ivenajne apart sectors or out into the villas.
And what we've seen in the last three or four years,
specifically since COVID is massive development outside of Marrakesh around
(03:09):
the southern roads where amismes Urica Road now the Fez Road.
Thousands of units being built and very very strong demand.
I'm very good of returns for the investors on those.
So in the Medina itself, fascinating environment. Obviously, it's limited
by its walls, so there's limited a real estate. There's
only so much available and very very strong demand. So
(03:29):
we're seeing quite dramatic price increases year on year in
Medina real estate particularly.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
And Mike, you've obviously been a lover of this city
for many years, but you've also been an investor in
real estate of it too, So do you want to
talk a bit about your journey with property here in Marrakesh.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah. I think we're lovers of Marrakesh buildings more than investors,
I think really. So we originally bought a holiday home here.
We started looking just after two thousand and one, two
thousand and two. I think we eventually bought in two
thousand and five what is now. We had Cinnamon and
it was a holiday home. We renovated it as a
as a holiday home. That was our you know, our
(04:12):
sort of frame of reference. Why did we do it? Well?
We what's not to love about Marrakesh. At that time
there was no direct flight from London to Marrakesh. Wow.
We there was a flight. There was Britian Airways flight
which would drop down in Casablanca, then come to Marrakesh
and then go back, so that it was a triangle.
That was the best, the closest we had to a
direct service.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So and now there must be ten flights a day
to London direct to Marrakesh. Yeah, Nazy Jet Ryanair British.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, not far off. Yeah, so I think it's in
the forties a week, but I mean it's a lot.
All So there's all four London airports are served and
all three of them have competition. More now sayah, it's crazy. Wow,
what we love about Marrakesh. Well, both Lucy and I
had traveled a lot, you know, both lived overseas and
Marrakesh was the first place that we had ever visited
(05:01):
that we could both see ourselves coming back to, you know, indefinitely. Really.
We love the energy, we love the food, we love
the people, we love the culture, we love the you know,
we're very close to the Outlass mountains. You know, you
can ski in and ski resort in an air if
that's your thing. You get down to the coast Esawira,
so there's diversity and it's a very welcoming and very
(05:22):
international city. So that was what we really brought into
At that sort of stage. We would have been in
our forties, I suppose, and we our kids were six
and nine and we bought our first house here. So
it was very and it's been a very much been
a part of our kids' lives. It was a holiday
home and our journey, I suppose is that you have
(05:45):
friends who use the house and family and then friends
of friends and then friends of friends of friends, and
you've got staff here, you know, to make it comfortble,
to look after it, keep it secure and so on,
and so you start people making a bit of a
contribution or whatever, and you actually realize that you're.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
You've got a business.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
You were in the hospitality business almost almost accidentally. And
we but you know, at that time, before the sort
of you know, boom in flights and the subsequent boom
in property values and so on, the Medina was in
relative state of disrepair to say, and neglect, and I
think I think we viewed it almost as you know,
(06:27):
when we viewed these properties almost like seeing orphans that
were crying out to be adopted, and we were, we were,
you know, the the building spoke to us, I think,
and it did gradually become a business, but it was
a it was a I mean, I'm a businessman in
Europe in marketing services and financial services and so on,
and I have a sort of an analytical hat that
(06:49):
I could that I can put on. But it certainly
wasn't that that drovers in Marrakesh. It was more emotional.
We we were buying things that we liked, and we
loved the process of renovation, and we love working with
the craftsman and most of them we kept. But what
want or two we saw would call it with Collins help,
but most of them. I suppose if you've adopted an orphan,
you then become reluctant to leave the family. So that, yeah,
(07:12):
that's our story, I think.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
And I think that's for us pretty similar. I mean,
it's a very emotional place Americasha culturally, very diverse, very
deep roots, a thousand year old city. It's very very welcoming.
I think until you've been here, it's hard quite to understand.
Of course, there's the financial aspect. You're a tourist or
you're just visiting and there is a financial interest for
(07:35):
the local population, but beyond that, once you start to
live here, you understand that there is a real welcome,
this real sense of community, particularly in the Marrakesh Medina
and outside in the villages as well, and they are
all wonderfully warm hearted people, and once you are amongst them,
they really do look after you and make sure that
everything is okay. You might feel as a tourist while,
(07:56):
you know, just after my dollar, yeah, fair enough. But
in reality, it is a deep culture and one which
I fell in love with as soon as I got
in touch with it, really.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And that's really interesting, isn't it. Because one thing I
think is magical about visiting Marrakesh is that you get
a real, true view to be part of culture that
happens whether tourists are here or not every day, and
that's wonderful. Yeah, everyone is still so welcoming to that,
and it's embracing it on both sides. We as tourists
(08:25):
embrace the culture that is there, but the culture that's
already here embraces tourists too, and I think that that's
a real rarity where it creates a genuine welcoming feel.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, I would say Marrakesh again, particularly in the Medina,
is a real living city. It's not a Disneyland. It's
not just a tourist attraction. And you could see that
during the COVID lockdowns. The people who lived here lived here,
and many of them two hundred and fifty thousand people
in the Medina, with their own economy, with their own community,
(08:55):
and it was really very enlightening to see that that
it is actually a living, thriving medieval city three and
a half hours from London. Quite remarkable.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So going back to fifteen twenty years ago when you
were first investing in property here, presumably you talk about
the city being a bit run down, but the infrastructure
around things presumably was not what it is today either.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
What was so, which year did Marrakesh become a UNESCO
World Heritage Site. I think it was just before, Yeah,
it was, it was around that time, and there was
a lot of un money that came in for infrastructure,
so things like, for example, the drains comprehensively upgraded, and
(09:39):
there was a time when these huge excavations were all
most of them done by hand, and you see these men,
you know, far down and wow, strict and you've got
those some narrow streets and planks over them, the same
motorbikes and donkeys and kids on the way to school
and not on their way back from the bakery with
the overbread, all leaping over the plank. So we lived
(10:00):
through a period when the big work was done and
there was really really far sighted and I think the
Moroccan government really driven by His Majesty the King's vision
to give a life at the future. So there was
a lot of renovation done, an investment in infrastructure which
is now almost a generation ago.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Actually yeah, but then there's some the eternal Marrakesha renovation
which is going on. So before, during and after COVID
there was a lot of renovation around the quarters. A
lot of the facades were renovated, a lot of the
routes were repaved. Now in Marrakesh, Medina, you've got your
fiber optic Wi Fi and your reared, you've got all
modern convenience, all the drains work, everything is quite remarkable.
(10:43):
And as Mike said, twenty twenty five years ago, that
wasn't like that. So I think we're living in very
happy times and Marrakesh has a fabulous future. There's a
lot of infrastructure work which still needs to be done,
particularly outside the Minina. I'm talking about car parks for example,
I'm talking about road widening schemes. As the city moves
into what is a very successful tourist destination identity, it
(11:06):
will need to continue upgrading the airport, the railway station.
There is a high speed train coming in twenty twenty eight,
of course, from Casablanca and Rabat. That's going to be
a fabulous thing. You can go from Casablanca Airport to
America City Center in forty minutes. Well, that's absolutely amazing.
And as long as the government continues to invest in
the infrastructure, then the tourist numbers will continue to grow.
(11:27):
And that for my business is obviously good news as well,
because our business is tourists driven at the end of
the day.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So let's talk about your business then. So you're real
estate breakers, So obviously you're selling property of all shapes
and size and all description. Typically, what are you seeing
now we're in twenty twenty five July recording this how
over the last twelve twelve months, eighteen months as your
business kind of changed, and what are you saying about property.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Here, well, we're seeing very strong demand decreasing supply, which
leads to price rises basically across the board. It's a
very interesting time as a buyer or as a seller.
And that might sound a little bit like a real
estate broker, but basically we are in that sweet spot
where there are still a number of years of capital
growth to be had investing in Marrakesh real estate. There
(12:14):
are good retterms for a business model as well. Yet
as a seller, prices are historically high. So I'm comfortable
to saying to someone now is a good time to sell,
and I'm comfortable to say to somebody and now is
a good time to buy, and to do that with
honesty and integrity. And I think that as long as
you realize that you're not going to get the prices
you would have got twenty years ago, it still remains
(12:35):
a very good investment model in a We're very excited
for the current market obviously.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
But it's still again recording this July twenty twenty five,
there is still enormous value to be had really in
today's current current market. Are you finding that a lot
of your customers are people that are perhaps similar to
Mike come here a couple of times gone absolutely, I
love this place and while I have a part of
it for the future. Is that where a lot of
(12:59):
your your customers are from.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yes, so we have a lot of what we call
hybrid customers. Those are people who are looking for a pierreta,
they're falling in love with the city. They want to
have a place where they can stay without paying hotels
when they're in the city, and then when they're not here,
basically they will rent that out on the short term
rental platforms such as Airbnb, booking, dot Com, et cetera.
So that will more than pay for itself, and that
(13:23):
is probably about forty to fifty percent of our sales
at the moment. It's this model, whether that's in the
Medina in a little reared or a dwidia which is
like an apartment or a city center apartment, or even
the villas outside the city. So there's a very popular model.
But then we're also seeing as Marrakesh becomes more important
as an international destination, we're seeing a lot more professional
hoteliers moving into the guesthouse market and even into the
(13:46):
villa market, where they are basically looking for returns on
investment and purely that we sell hotels as well, and
these people are very very concentrated on the figures. It's
all about what am I going to make out of this?
So we do have a lot of emotion normal purchases,
and we also have a lot now of very hard
nosed financial people who are looking at the market and saying,
(14:07):
this is good return, this is where I want to
put my money.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And what's the best bits of advice for those people
that are stat there, Okay, I want to buy somewhere
to having to live. What would be the warnings that
you'd give them, and what is there that people should
have in mind?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I think you as certainly as a first time purchaser,
you should stay on the straight and narrow trank, that
is to say, purchase property with a freehold title deed,
work with a reputable agency, work with an English speaking notarie.
So here it's not like in the UK or in
other jurisdictions where you'd have two solicitors, one for the
buyer and one for the seller. Here you have a
central notary who does diligence for both parties. And obviously
(14:43):
you know we can recommend good English speaking notaries, so
that you can understand the law when you're going forward,
and then keep everything on contract. As a first time purchaser,
many people historically in Marrakesh, particularly from the French culture,
would look to have little bits off contract here, little
bits of black there. Whatever. Recommend that you stay right
in the middle of the road for your first purchase,
certainly so that you are you can get to terms
(15:05):
with the culture in property purchasing and move forward with
the security and serenity.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Very good ancer, like what have you led over the
years of bioproperty.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Here, we're driven by the property.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I know.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
We're sitting here in Josephine Baker's Marrakesh amazing residence, which
was I mean, the history of this house, let's just
talk about it. We're sitting in a it's in the
cart Banaide quarter, which is one of the oldest quarters
of Marrakesh. It physically touches that what is now the
Museum of Marrakesh, but it used to be the Benimbi Palace.
(15:40):
So it was built as a sort of nobleman's house
if you like, and this was part of the guest accommodation.
So in the during the period of the French protectorate
when the Passor of Marrakesh was all powerful throughout the region.
One of his brothers lived in the nimb Palace and
(16:00):
this was actually a guest house. So in the nineteen
thirties it was renovated with and we're looking at some
beautiful cedar doors here, but in an Art Deco style
with these sort of with these very sort of geometric
patterns on them, and within the house there was a
lot of Iraqi glass, and we could actually date it
(16:21):
because there was some of the glass which blue, which
it was only only became possible to produce in the
mid nineteen thirties. So basically it was a it was
a wealthy Moroccan who did something up in a somewhat
European style to receive their honored guests. And so it
is the combination of the Moroccan arches and traditional architecture
(16:41):
and the Deco is, you know, fantastic. And then the
house has a fantastic history because as a guest house
it received some wonderful and fabulous people, including the vaudeville
star Josephine Baker, who was a long term guest here
for during the war.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
And so trus Fim Baker wasn't just a vaudeville star.
She was also a spy basically for the Americans, and
a lot of the work that she was doing in
what was basically Vishi, France was in order to provide
information to the American government. So she's an amazing historical
character and grace to a Marrakesh for many years. And
(17:21):
in fact, moving on a little bit, a lot of
very important people Americans through the fifties and sixties would
come to Marrakesh because of this history, because of this
openness of spirit or whatever. So all of the jet
set were here and very interesting indeed.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, and in the nineteen particularly between the wars, there
was as an area called Evanage. There was winter in French,
as you know, and Evnage is the area where French
sort of elite really would come to over winter. So
they would come for several months at a time. They'd
get Casablanca and then complete the journey by car up
here and stay for several months and they got there's
(17:58):
a lot of their sort of infrastructure still there, the
theaters and the and the golf clubs and the church
and club Some of the longest established restaurants date back
to that period as well. So coming back to the
property question, for us, it was it's always been led
by the property and then of course each will have
its own story, so there is a with that when
(18:19):
you get two technical there are two types of title here.
So there is a land registry as search, which is
on a sort of French model, and it's desirable to
get a title ultimately to get it registered on that register,
because that is incontestable. Attaching colin you should you should
speak about about a.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Y So the freehold title is basically comparable to a
freeholder in the UK.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
It's yours.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
You can give it away, you can give it to
your inheritors, you can sell it. It's yours, uncontested, government guaranteed.
And then the second system is the old land Registry
which was run by the Islamic Affairs, so basically the Mosque,
and this is called Melchia. A lot less secure. We
sell now Melchia, but we tend to sell it with
(19:04):
the proviso that the sellers go to the land Registry
and start the titling process and once that has been
accepted by the land Registry, then it means you've identified
the owners the property has been measured, everybody agrees on
what it is, and you can move forward with security.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But it is a process.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So it's the first time by I come back to
the fact that the government controlled land registry is the
best one for you to start with.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So we've bought properties which had a title, and we've
also bought properties with this melkia and transformed them into
into titles. So the interesting thing about the Islamic system
is that very it's very rare that there will be
one owner on the title because for historical reasons, there
(19:46):
could be four or five siblings, you know, or there
could be you know, eighteen including somewhere. And we bought
one where we had what, you know, we had a
family memory emigrated to Canada, you know who was in
favor of getting their signaturey away, which ismpletely legally binding
was required either flying them in or finding an Arabic
speeding notary in whatever promise. So there's a lot of
(20:09):
complexity around that and you can get you know, they
can change their minds or you know, one of them
might be a bit awkward or whatever, And for us,
it's all part of the journey. And I think you
have to embrace it. And absolutely I also think that
what's you know, sometimes what's meant to be is what's
meant to be. I think we do view ourselves as
custodians of these places really rather than and if it's
you know, if it's meant to come to us, it
will come. And if it's not, then then somebody else
(20:32):
will will love it and care for it instead.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
In fact, the inheritance law in Morocco is such that
many times the inheritances who own this Malkia don't agree
to sell, don't agree to who's going to pay for
maintenance and whatever, and you see a lot of degradation.
And as you go around the Medina, you'll come across
let's call them semi ruins, and often these are just
basically Malkia properties which where the families don't agree what
(20:56):
to do with it, and after a while they just
fall down and you up with the government coming in
and clearing the land. And then usually you know, as
there's no maintenance costs, then the families find it easier
basically to move to the table to sell. So there's
a lot of this Melchia property now coming onto the market,
a lot of the good title property is already sold
of course, or a resales and whatever. But we're seeing
(21:18):
a lot of melchia, now clean melchia, coming onto the market,
and that's very interesting for foreign investors as long as
you take care.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And over the last twenty years from the first property
you brought to the most recent, has it become easier.
It's obviously become more expensive, but the process is that
now an easy one to go through.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, the process doesn't change, to my knowledge.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
No, but the technology has so now when you're looking
to study, when you're doing diligence on a property, I
can now go online check the title Dean Dunber with
the Land Registry. Takes me ten minutes, cost me six pounds,
and I've got all the information that I need straight
from the horses, whereas previously that would be a process
of physically going into the office, et cetera. And so
we're also seeing the banking system is a lot easier,
(22:06):
so I can make my swift transfer from Europe directly
into escrow with a notary and do purchase that way
rather than having to go through different banks and whatever.
So the process is while legally it remains the same,
it has been facilitated greatly by a technology.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I mean, it's essentially the title system is essentially modeled
on fronts, so there is a central map and the
process of titling something is about sending out a surveyor
who will almost like a jigsaw. They'll they'll define that
piece and they'll go back to base and they'll see
how it fits with what they already have. And if
(22:41):
there's a you know, a gap or an oval app
or whatever, then they'll they'll come back and sort it down.
And that's basically what they're doing, you know, and they're
doing very very good at it. But it takes you know,
I'm old enough to remember when there were not untitled
properties being sold in the UK. You know, the land
Registry is not that.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Showing your to that.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I am not dead yet though it's.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Going so And I guess there's one thing which is
buying property, but then there's another thing which is building here.
And that's I would imagine a whole new challenge that
people must consider when when getting property.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, I've renovated, let's say, not built from the ground up,
but renovated three big properties in the Medina. It's a
complicated process and it was interesting. A learning curve can
be quite stressful. But again, as time has gone on
we've seen the professionalization of the builders within the Medina.
It's still old fashioned in the way that you can't
(23:40):
get big machines in, so your work is going to
be done basically on the back of a donkey. Maybe
you'll have a handheld cement mixer in your property, but
you're not going to get a crane in. You're not
going to be able to get a big machine in,
so it's slower and it's more messy than you would
expect in the UK. However, it works very well. And
while we are no longer involve directly in renovation or
(24:01):
in building, obviously we know people who are and you know,
we can put people in touch.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And Mike, you've obviously created some wonderful reads. How do
you kind of go about retaining the beauty of the
architecture of each building? How do you go about ensuring
that they are true to what they perhaps could have
been one hundred years ago? When when when you're building
your reads, well, you know, we.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Work with traditional craftsmen, so the you know, wood workers
and the plaster or gubs specialists and the guys who
worked with tadle Act and these skills are It's absolutely wonderful. Really,
I mean that I feel a bit old today, Colin.
I can remember when when there were there were would work,
there were people who had these skills that were working
(24:49):
other jobs as taxi drivers or whatever, and it was
fantastic to be part of bringing them back and keeping
those skills aliving, giving them another another lease of life.
And you know, really, I can literally remember that people
who would would be doing the plaster carving for us
when we had work, but if not, would have to
fall back on on other things. That now, of course,
(25:11):
the boom is so it's so you know, established that
that those sort of skills are in short supply, and
how wonderful is that.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
You know, well, you've been a stalwart for the protection
of a tradition within the Medina Mica. You know the
storytelling cafe or very respectful restorations and renovations that you've
done around the city. So I'll to you.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Well, and there are I'm thinking about a mutual friend,
ablooty've been Abdullah. There are a lot of Moroccans who
are involved in this in this as well, and Jea
Farcancusi and the al Munna Association. This is all within
an institutional framework. And remember remembering it seen Esco well
Carritage site. So we've got quite strict and strictly enforced
(25:54):
building codes, notwithstaying in the fact that some of the
older buildings got into poor repair. There's a you know
a lot of great work being done restoring and giving
the buildings and giving those city, the whole city really
a new lease of life.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
And I think people by now having listened to this
podcast will know how much we love Marrakesh and what
a wonderful place it is. And we spend every podcast
talking about all its great things. But probably something we
don't give enough attention to at times is the architecture,
because every building is different but still just so wonderful,
and you kind of we talk there about the plaster.
I'm looking around the room that we're in right now
(26:29):
and just all of this is done by hand, right,
all of these beautiful ceilings, all of these surrounds of mirrors,
like everything. It's just such an art. It's phenomenal, it.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Is, and it's it is you know, we are proud
to be restoring the building sympathetically and to be perpetuating
the crafts as well.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
There's a tendency now specifically in people who are flipping,
which is a strange term, but you know, if you
buy a ruin or a semi ruin and you want
to sell it on, a lot of people these days
will not be particularly respectful. They're looking to get in
and out as quickly as they can. And there's a
lot of generic reads on the market, so either which
(27:07):
have been demolished and rebuilt from the ground up, or
which have been restored but which lack a lot of
the Moroccan Dutch. So once you might put some decoration
in from Morocco, the building itself could be in Abizza
or Barcelona anyway, so there is some if you like.
The restoration of these good reads is very important now
for the cultural future of Marrakesh, and it's important that
(27:28):
people like Mike and others who are buying the good
reads that they actually look after them and put some
soul into it.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Obviously we talk a lot about property here, but this
is a lot to do with business, and I'd love
to just spend some time talking about business in Morocco.
Very fortunate here two chairs are two wonderful organizations, So
Mike being the chair of the British Moroccan Society and
Colin you're the chair of the British Business Association in Morocco.
The links between Morocco and the UK have been here
(27:58):
for a long time but seem to go from strength
to strength. But business here, what's it like and what's
the business community like?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
So it's very varied. There's not just hospitality, although hospitality
dominates in Marrakesh. We have members who are lawyers, who
are accountants, who are doctors, all professions really, so it's
a very very friendly business environment. I think once you've
got to grips with the basic administration, it is a
(28:28):
super place to come and set up business. There is
a lot of flexibility, there's a lot of opportunity, particularly
if you compare with Western Europe or the UK. You
can come in here and start a business, or you
can bring your business and get it going and with
your skills from Western Europe you will have a noted
advantage over the local population. So tax regimes are fair.
(28:49):
Employment while employment law, while tough and in favor of
the employee, is also a very good sign of security
for your business. I'm very enthusiastic about the situation now
and even more enthusiastic as we move forward.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I would really encourage anybody who is considering investing in Maracasha,
or opening a business here or trading here to contact
Colin and his colins at the BBA, who give very
generously of their of their time. There is a really
supportive and warm community here. I think from a some
(29:23):
of a UK perspective, you know, actually I'm not personally
a Brexiteer, but Brexit has been very, very kind to
the UK Morocco relationship, so a lot in in agri business,
you know, Morocco has replaced Spain as the main supplier
of tomatoes in the UK with a lot of a
lot of produce. Morocco has had a huge boom in automotive,
(29:44):
so Morocco is the largest exporter of cars, more cars
made in Morocco going to the EU than from any
other single country. Bearing in mind that when I bought
my first read in Marrakesh, Morocco did not make a
single car.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Up in the North. There's a lot of votive industry.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
There's been in it, you know, so that's a huge
area of growth, and I think there is such a
lot to do on a business level, both whether at
a sort of corporate level and a more modest SMEs
and family businesses.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And our association can provide a support to people who
are coming in to set up a business. So we
have hundreds of years of accumulated experience across the membership
and in all different fields. As I say, so, you know,
if you are thinking about setting up a business or
just coming to live, even in Marrakesh, you know you
should definitely get in touch with us and come around
for one of our little cocktails or come to a
business meeting and discuss your plans. And I'm sure you'll
(30:40):
find a lot of like minded.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
People, which is which is kind of bit the heart
of Marrakesh community is everywhere and particularly in this one too.
And Colin, what we do with everyone that comes onto
Maracas Rare podcast is love to hear their stories of
their personal favorite places to eat, to visit, to go,
the type of recommendation that you would giving anybody listened
to this podcast coming over. So let's start with food.
(31:04):
What do you recommend?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Well, Morocco is blessed with the gastronomical wonders. It really is.
I think once you've had your fiftieth or one hundredth
tajin sometimes you like to move on to something else.
So when we have people here only for one day,
for example, we will take them to the Jaques and Deltas,
the Lotus Gardens, which are not so far from here,
fabulous environment. I know the owner very well. It's there's
(31:27):
a great bar, there's a great vibe. It goes from
being a very classy restaurant in the evening to quite
a jumpy place in the in the later evening with
DJs and things like that, all in a beautiful old
read so that if I only had one day, I
would go there. If I had a second night, I
might take them to the slightly more demure but also
fabulous Gaffia Arab in Wasne. If I'm out in town,
(31:50):
the Grand Cafide Lapost is an all time favorite. That's
an old French restaurant, very very well run and very
centrally located in Gillies. Or maybe I might go somewhere
a little bit more trendy or somewhere like that, which
is also very interesting. But now given my age, there
are a lot of places which I haven't been to,
(32:12):
specifically at the later times at night, because Marrakesh has
a fabulous nightlife. It really does. There are hundreds of nightclubs,
hundreds of rooftop bars, and a very cosmopolitan environment. And
when you think this is an Islamic country, it's it's
truly remarkable and truly tolerant, and yeah, you can't go
wrong in Marrakesh.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Marrakesh is a city, isn't it. There's incredible There is
an incredible diversity, and I think that's why it's so
interesting to hear a personal reco recommendation from a long
term resident.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Absolutely, Colin, thank you so much for coming on the
podcast today. It's been fantastic to have. Thank you for
having me a really interesting discussion. And the Collin's business
is Bosworth Property, So if you are looking at real
estate or considering investing into Marrakesh or Morocco, then definitely
get in touch with Colin. And the other organization we
talked about was the British Business Association ROCK. We'll put
(33:01):
links in the description of this podcast. Colin, thank you
so much for being on America's for Real podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Thank you so much. A great pleasure.
Hello, and welcome to Marrakesh Real Podcast. This is an
episode that I'm really excuitched about actually today. I think
this is going to be a really interesting one as
we are talking all about property in Marrakesh and that
is with Colin Bosworth. Hello Colin, and welcome to the
Marrakesh Real Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Lovely to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Welcome of course, joined as well by Mike as we
always have. So the two of you are good friends
and having for about what fifteen years something?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah, getting on for that now, yeah, since twenty eleven.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
And that's your mutual love of property in Marrakesh that's
brought you together.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
And a mutual love of football.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah football all things to do with Marrakesh really, but
I know Mike is a big Leicester fan. I'm Arsenal,
so we do have the occasional joke about football. And yeah,
we're very happy with we are where we are. I'm
not sure if Lester are happy with they are.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, I think you're being very very modest there. Colin
is also a referee. We've reaped up to what second
second original? Wow?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Well, I mean the beautiful podcast is that they do
live on for absolutely ever and I hope that there
is going to be a world where someone is listening
to this podcast far into the future in Leicester City
and not in the Championship but instead back to being
European Premier League champions. But absolutely, yeah, I think we
might be wasting a few more years before we get
(01:19):
anywhere near to that. So let's about football more about property. Obviously, Mike,
you've been in Marrakesh for many, many years through property,
but I think really the kind of time that you've
been in this industry and working in here over the
last fifteen years, you must have just seen such a
transformation and change in the excitement around property and the
(01:41):
desire for it.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Absolutely. I mean when I arrived here, we were just
following the financial crash in two thousand and eight and
it was a fairly depressed market. A lot of people
basically had to disinvest in Marrakesh in order to pay
their debts in Europe or elsewhere, so it was very quiet,
but also a good time to arrive. I think when
you arrived somewhere flow swimming against the current, there are
a lot of advantages to that, and intuitively I just
(02:04):
saw Marrakesh as summer, which was going to happen, and
over the last fifteen years we've seen it really really
take off, and I would say specifically from about twenty
sixteen twenty seventeen we started to see an influx of
new investors and then that really took off in twenty nineteen,
and then of course we had COVID in twenty twenty
and to my somewhat to my surprise, I suppose suddenly
(02:26):
the market exploded. Everybody was stuck in their apartment or
their property in northern Europe in the cold and the rain,
looking out through the windows and thought, you know what,
I could actually be stuck on a terrace somewhere in
the sunshine, in my courtyard with my pool and whatever.
And we saw a huge upturn in interest during the lockdowns,
and then as soon as the borders were opened, we
(02:48):
saw prices immediately start to rise as people came in
looking for a good property in Marrakesh, starting in the Medina,
but then going all over the city, so whether that's
in Gilles and Ivenajne apart sectors or out into the villas.
And what we've seen in the last three or four years,
specifically since COVID is massive development outside of Marrakesh around
(03:09):
the southern roads where amismes Urica Road now the Fez Road.
Thousands of units being built and very very strong demand.
I'm very good of returns for the investors on those.
So in the Medina itself, fascinating environment. Obviously, it's limited
by its walls, so there's limited a real estate. There's
only so much available and very very strong demand. So
(03:29):
we're seeing quite dramatic price increases year on year in
Medina real estate particularly.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
And Mike, you've obviously been a lover of this city
for many years, but you've also been an investor in
real estate of it too, So do you want to
talk a bit about your journey with property here in Marrakesh.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah. I think we're lovers of Marrakesh buildings more than investors,
I think really. So we originally bought a holiday home here.
We started looking just after two thousand and one, two
thousand and two. I think we eventually bought in two
thousand and five what is now. We had Cinnamon and
it was a holiday home. We renovated it as a
as a holiday home. That was our you know, our
(04:12):
sort of frame of reference. Why did we do it? Well?
We what's not to love about Marrakesh. At that time
there was no direct flight from London to Marrakesh. Wow.
We there was a flight. There was Britian Airways flight
which would drop down in Casablanca, then come to Marrakesh
and then go back, so that it was a triangle.
That was the best, the closest we had to a
direct service.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
So and now there must be ten flights a day
to London direct to Marrakesh. Yeah, Nazy Jet Ryanair British.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, not far off. Yeah, so I think it's in
the forties a week, but I mean it's a lot.
All So there's all four London airports are served and
all three of them have competition. More now sayah, it's crazy. Wow,
what we love about Marrakesh. Well, both Lucy and I
had traveled a lot, you know, both lived overseas and
Marrakesh was the first place that we had ever visited
(05:01):
that we could both see ourselves coming back to, you know, indefinitely. Really.
We love the energy, we love the food, we love
the people, we love the culture, we love the you know,
we're very close to the Outlass mountains. You know, you
can ski in and ski resort in an air if
that's your thing. You get down to the coast Esawira,
so there's diversity and it's a very welcoming and very
(05:22):
international city. So that was what we really brought into
At that sort of stage. We would have been in
our forties, I suppose, and we our kids were six
and nine and we bought our first house here. So
it was very and it's been a very much been
a part of our kids' lives. It was a holiday
home and our journey, I suppose is that you have
(05:45):
friends who use the house and family and then friends
of friends and then friends of friends of friends, and
you've got staff here, you know, to make it comfortble,
to look after it, keep it secure and so on,
and so you start people making a bit of a
contribution or whatever, and you actually realize that you're.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
You've got a business.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
You were in the hospitality business almost almost accidentally. And
we but you know, at that time, before the sort
of you know, boom in flights and the subsequent boom
in property values and so on, the Medina was in
relative state of disrepair to say, and neglect, and I
think I think we viewed it almost as you know,
(06:27):
when we viewed these properties almost like seeing orphans that
were crying out to be adopted, and we were, we were,
you know, the the building spoke to us, I think,
and it did gradually become a business, but it was
a it was a I mean, I'm a businessman in
Europe in marketing services and financial services and so on,
and I have a sort of an analytical hat that
(06:49):
I could that I can put on. But it certainly
wasn't that that drovers in Marrakesh. It was more emotional.
We we were buying things that we liked, and we
loved the process of renovation, and we love working with
the craftsman and most of them we kept. But what
want or two we saw would call it with Collins help,
but most of them. I suppose if you've adopted an orphan,
you then become reluctant to leave the family. So that, yeah,
(07:12):
that's our story, I think.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
And I think that's for us pretty similar. I mean,
it's a very emotional place Americasha culturally, very diverse, very
deep roots, a thousand year old city. It's very very welcoming.
I think until you've been here, it's hard quite to understand.
Of course, there's the financial aspect. You're a tourist or
you're just visiting and there is a financial interest for
(07:35):
the local population, but beyond that, once you start to
live here, you understand that there is a real welcome,
this real sense of community, particularly in the Marrakesh Medina
and outside in the villages as well, and they are
all wonderfully warm hearted people, and once you are amongst them,
they really do look after you and make sure that
everything is okay. You might feel as a tourist while,
(07:56):
you know, just after my dollar, yeah, fair enough. But
in reality, it is a deep culture and one which
I fell in love with as soon as I got
in touch with it, really.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And that's really interesting, isn't it. Because one thing I
think is magical about visiting Marrakesh is that you get
a real, true view to be part of culture that
happens whether tourists are here or not every day, and
that's wonderful. Yeah, everyone is still so welcoming to that,
and it's embracing it on both sides. We as tourists
(08:25):
embrace the culture that is there, but the culture that's
already here embraces tourists too, and I think that that's
a real rarity where it creates a genuine welcoming feel.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, I would say Marrakesh again, particularly in the Medina,
is a real living city. It's not a Disneyland. It's
not just a tourist attraction. And you could see that
during the COVID lockdowns. The people who lived here lived here,
and many of them two hundred and fifty thousand people
in the Medina, with their own economy, with their own community,
(08:55):
and it was really very enlightening to see that that
it is actually a living, thriving medieval city three and
a half hours from London. Quite remarkable.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So going back to fifteen twenty years ago when you
were first investing in property here, presumably you talk about
the city being a bit run down, but the infrastructure
around things presumably was not what it is today either.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
What was so, which year did Marrakesh become a UNESCO
World Heritage Site. I think it was just before, Yeah,
it was, it was around that time, and there was
a lot of un money that came in for infrastructure,
so things like, for example, the drains comprehensively upgraded, and
(09:39):
there was a time when these huge excavations were all
most of them done by hand, and you see these men,
you know, far down and wow, strict and you've got
those some narrow streets and planks over them, the same
motorbikes and donkeys and kids on the way to school
and not on their way back from the bakery with
the overbread, all leaping over the plank. So we lived
(10:00):
through a period when the big work was done and
there was really really far sighted and I think the
Moroccan government really driven by His Majesty the King's vision
to give a life at the future. So there was
a lot of renovation done, an investment in infrastructure which
is now almost a generation ago.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Actually yeah, but then there's some the eternal Marrakesha renovation
which is going on. So before, during and after COVID
there was a lot of renovation around the quarters. A
lot of the facades were renovated, a lot of the
routes were repaved. Now in Marrakesh, Medina, you've got your
fiber optic Wi Fi and your reared, you've got all
modern convenience, all the drains work, everything is quite remarkable.
(10:43):
And as Mike said, twenty twenty five years ago, that
wasn't like that. So I think we're living in very
happy times and Marrakesh has a fabulous future. There's a
lot of infrastructure work which still needs to be done,
particularly outside the Minina. I'm talking about car parks for example,
I'm talking about road widening schemes. As the city moves
into what is a very successful tourist destination identity, it
(11:06):
will need to continue upgrading the airport, the railway station.
There is a high speed train coming in twenty twenty eight,
of course, from Casablanca and Rabat. That's going to be
a fabulous thing. You can go from Casablanca Airport to
America City Center in forty minutes. Well, that's absolutely amazing.
And as long as the government continues to invest in
the infrastructure, then the tourist numbers will continue to grow.
(11:27):
And that for my business is obviously good news as well,
because our business is tourists driven at the end of
the day.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So let's talk about your business then. So you're real
estate breakers, So obviously you're selling property of all shapes
and size and all description. Typically, what are you seeing
now we're in twenty twenty five July recording this how
over the last twelve twelve months, eighteen months as your
business kind of changed, and what are you saying about property.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Here, well, we're seeing very strong demand decreasing supply, which
leads to price rises basically across the board. It's a
very interesting time as a buyer or as a seller.
And that might sound a little bit like a real
estate broker, but basically we are in that sweet spot
where there are still a number of years of capital
growth to be had investing in Marrakesh real estate. There
(12:14):
are good retterms for a business model as well. Yet
as a seller, prices are historically high. So I'm comfortable
to saying to someone now is a good time to sell,
and I'm comfortable to say to somebody and now is
a good time to buy, and to do that with
honesty and integrity. And I think that as long as
you realize that you're not going to get the prices
you would have got twenty years ago, it still remains
(12:35):
a very good investment model in a We're very excited
for the current market obviously.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
But it's still again recording this July twenty twenty five,
there is still enormous value to be had really in
today's current current market. Are you finding that a lot
of your customers are people that are perhaps similar to
Mike come here a couple of times gone absolutely, I
love this place and while I have a part of
it for the future. Is that where a lot of
(12:59):
your your customers are from.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Yes, so we have a lot of what we call
hybrid customers. Those are people who are looking for a pierreta,
they're falling in love with the city. They want to
have a place where they can stay without paying hotels
when they're in the city, and then when they're not here,
basically they will rent that out on the short term
rental platforms such as Airbnb, booking, dot Com, et cetera.
So that will more than pay for itself, and that
(13:23):
is probably about forty to fifty percent of our sales
at the moment. It's this model, whether that's in the
Medina in a little reared or a dwidia which is
like an apartment or a city center apartment, or even
the villas outside the city. So there's a very popular model.
But then we're also seeing as Marrakesh becomes more important
as an international destination, we're seeing a lot more professional
hoteliers moving into the guesthouse market and even into the
(13:46):
villa market, where they are basically looking for returns on
investment and purely that we sell hotels as well, and
these people are very very concentrated on the figures. It's
all about what am I going to make out of this?
So we do have a lot of emotion normal purchases,
and we also have a lot now of very hard
nosed financial people who are looking at the market and saying,
(14:07):
this is good return, this is where I want to
put my money.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
And what's the best bits of advice for those people
that are stat there, Okay, I want to buy somewhere
to having to live. What would be the warnings that
you'd give them, and what is there that people should
have in mind?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I think you as certainly as a first time purchaser,
you should stay on the straight and narrow trank, that
is to say, purchase property with a freehold title deed,
work with a reputable agency, work with an English speaking notarie.
So here it's not like in the UK or in
other jurisdictions where you'd have two solicitors, one for the
buyer and one for the seller. Here you have a
central notary who does diligence for both parties. And obviously
(14:43):
you know we can recommend good English speaking notaries, so
that you can understand the law when you're going forward,
and then keep everything on contract. As a first time purchaser,
many people historically in Marrakesh, particularly from the French culture,
would look to have little bits off contract here, little
bits of black there. Whatever. Recommend that you stay right
in the middle of the road for your first purchase,
certainly so that you are you can get to terms
(15:05):
with the culture in property purchasing and move forward with
the security and serenity.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Very good ancer, like what have you led over the
years of bioproperty.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
Here, we're driven by the property.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
I know.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
We're sitting here in Josephine Baker's Marrakesh amazing residence, which
was I mean, the history of this house, let's just
talk about it. We're sitting in a it's in the
cart Banaide quarter, which is one of the oldest quarters
of Marrakesh. It physically touches that what is now the
Museum of Marrakesh, but it used to be the Benimbi Palace.
(15:40):
So it was built as a sort of nobleman's house
if you like, and this was part of the guest accommodation.
So in the during the period of the French protectorate
when the Passor of Marrakesh was all powerful throughout the region.
One of his brothers lived in the nimb Palace and
(16:00):
this was actually a guest house. So in the nineteen
thirties it was renovated with and we're looking at some
beautiful cedar doors here, but in an Art Deco style
with these sort of with these very sort of geometric
patterns on them, and within the house there was a
lot of Iraqi glass, and we could actually date it
(16:21):
because there was some of the glass which blue, which
it was only only became possible to produce in the
mid nineteen thirties. So basically it was a it was
a wealthy Moroccan who did something up in a somewhat
European style to receive their honored guests. And so it
is the combination of the Moroccan arches and traditional architecture
(16:41):
and the Deco is, you know, fantastic. And then the
house has a fantastic history because as a guest house
it received some wonderful and fabulous people, including the vaudeville
star Josephine Baker, who was a long term guest here
for during the war.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
And so trus Fim Baker wasn't just a vaudeville star.
She was also a spy basically for the Americans, and
a lot of the work that she was doing in
what was basically Vishi, France was in order to provide
information to the American government. So she's an amazing historical
character and grace to a Marrakesh for many years. And
(17:21):
in fact, moving on a little bit, a lot of
very important people Americans through the fifties and sixties would
come to Marrakesh because of this history, because of this
openness of spirit or whatever. So all of the jet
set were here and very interesting indeed.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, and in the nineteen particularly between the wars, there
was as an area called Evanage. There was winter in French,
as you know, and Evnage is the area where French
sort of elite really would come to over winter. So
they would come for several months at a time. They'd
get Casablanca and then complete the journey by car up
here and stay for several months and they got there's
(17:58):
a lot of their sort of infrastructure still there, the
theaters and the and the golf clubs and the church
and club Some of the longest established restaurants date back
to that period as well. So coming back to the
property question, for us, it was it's always been led
by the property and then of course each will have
its own story, so there is a with that when
(18:19):
you get two technical there are two types of title here.
So there is a land registry as search, which is
on a sort of French model, and it's desirable to
get a title ultimately to get it registered on that register,
because that is incontestable. Attaching colin you should you should
speak about about a.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Y So the freehold title is basically comparable to a
freeholder in the UK.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
It's yours.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
You can give it away, you can give it to
your inheritors, you can sell it. It's yours, uncontested, government guaranteed.
And then the second system is the old land Registry
which was run by the Islamic Affairs, so basically the Mosque,
and this is called Melchia. A lot less secure. We
sell now Melchia, but we tend to sell it with
(19:04):
the proviso that the sellers go to the land Registry
and start the titling process and once that has been
accepted by the land Registry, then it means you've identified
the owners the property has been measured, everybody agrees on
what it is, and you can move forward with security.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
But it is a process.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So it's the first time by I come back to
the fact that the government controlled land registry is the
best one for you to start with.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So we've bought properties which had a title, and we've
also bought properties with this melkia and transformed them into
into titles. So the interesting thing about the Islamic system
is that very it's very rare that there will be
one owner on the title because for historical reasons, there
(19:46):
could be four or five siblings, you know, or there
could be you know, eighteen including somewhere. And we bought
one where we had what, you know, we had a
family memory emigrated to Canada, you know who was in
favor of getting their signaturey away, which ismpletely legally binding
was required either flying them in or finding an Arabic
speeding notary in whatever promise. So there's a lot of
(20:09):
complexity around that and you can get you know, they
can change their minds or you know, one of them
might be a bit awkward or whatever, And for us,
it's all part of the journey. And I think you
have to embrace it. And absolutely I also think that
what's you know, sometimes what's meant to be is what's
meant to be. I think we do view ourselves as
custodians of these places really rather than and if it's
you know, if it's meant to come to us, it
will come. And if it's not, then then somebody else
(20:32):
will will love it and care for it instead.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
In fact, the inheritance law in Morocco is such that
many times the inheritances who own this Malkia don't agree
to sell, don't agree to who's going to pay for
maintenance and whatever, and you see a lot of degradation.
And as you go around the Medina, you'll come across
let's call them semi ruins, and often these are just
basically Malkia properties which where the families don't agree what
(20:56):
to do with it, and after a while they just
fall down and you up with the government coming in
and clearing the land. And then usually you know, as
there's no maintenance costs, then the families find it easier
basically to move to the table to sell. So there's
a lot of this Melchia property now coming onto the market,
a lot of the good title property is already sold
of course, or a resales and whatever. But we're seeing
(21:18):
a lot of melchia, now clean melchia, coming onto the market,
and that's very interesting for foreign investors as long as
you take care.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
And over the last twenty years from the first property
you brought to the most recent, has it become easier.
It's obviously become more expensive, but the process is that
now an easy one to go through.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, the process doesn't change, to my knowledge.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
No, but the technology has so now when you're looking
to study, when you're doing diligence on a property, I
can now go online check the title Dean Dunber with
the Land Registry. Takes me ten minutes, cost me six pounds,
and I've got all the information that I need straight
from the horses, whereas previously that would be a process
of physically going into the office, et cetera. And so
we're also seeing the banking system is a lot easier,
(22:06):
so I can make my swift transfer from Europe directly
into escrow with a notary and do purchase that way
rather than having to go through different banks and whatever.
So the process is while legally it remains the same,
it has been facilitated greatly by a technology.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
I mean, it's essentially the title system is essentially modeled
on fronts, so there is a central map and the
process of titling something is about sending out a surveyor
who will almost like a jigsaw. They'll they'll define that
piece and they'll go back to base and they'll see
how it fits with what they already have. And if
(22:41):
there's a you know, a gap or an oval app
or whatever, then they'll they'll come back and sort it down.
And that's basically what they're doing, you know, and they're
doing very very good at it. But it takes you know,
I'm old enough to remember when there were not untitled
properties being sold in the UK. You know, the land
Registry is not that.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Showing your to that.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
I am not dead yet though it's.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Going so And I guess there's one thing which is
buying property, but then there's another thing which is building here.
And that's I would imagine a whole new challenge that
people must consider when when getting property.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, I've renovated, let's say, not built from the ground up,
but renovated three big properties in the Medina. It's a
complicated process and it was interesting. A learning curve can
be quite stressful. But again, as time has gone on
we've seen the professionalization of the builders within the Medina.
It's still old fashioned in the way that you can't
(23:40):
get big machines in, so your work is going to
be done basically on the back of a donkey. Maybe
you'll have a handheld cement mixer in your property, but
you're not going to get a crane in. You're not
going to be able to get a big machine in,
so it's slower and it's more messy than you would
expect in the UK. However, it works very well. And
while we are no longer involve directly in renovation or
(24:01):
in building, obviously we know people who are and you know,
we can put people in touch.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And Mike, you've obviously created some wonderful reads. How do
you kind of go about retaining the beauty of the
architecture of each building? How do you go about ensuring
that they are true to what they perhaps could have
been one hundred years ago? When when when you're building
your reads, well, you know, we.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Work with traditional craftsmen, so the you know, wood workers
and the plaster or gubs specialists and the guys who
worked with tadle Act and these skills are It's absolutely wonderful. Really,
I mean that I feel a bit old today, Colin.
I can remember when when there were there were would work,
there were people who had these skills that were working
(24:49):
other jobs as taxi drivers or whatever, and it was
fantastic to be part of bringing them back and keeping
those skills aliving, giving them another another lease of life.
And you know, really, I can literally remember that people
who would would be doing the plaster carving for us
when we had work, but if not, would have to
fall back on on other things. That now, of course,
(25:11):
the boom is so it's so you know, established that
that those sort of skills are in short supply, and
how wonderful is that.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
You know, well, you've been a stalwart for the protection
of a tradition within the Medina Mica. You know the
storytelling cafe or very respectful restorations and renovations that you've
done around the city. So I'll to you.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Well, and there are I'm thinking about a mutual friend,
ablooty've been Abdullah. There are a lot of Moroccans who
are involved in this in this as well, and Jea
Farcancusi and the al Munna Association. This is all within
an institutional framework. And remember remembering it seen Esco well
Carritage site. So we've got quite strict and strictly enforced
(25:54):
building codes, notwithstaying in the fact that some of the
older buildings got into poor repair. There's a you know
a lot of great work being done restoring and giving
the buildings and giving those city, the whole city really
a new lease of life.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
And I think people by now having listened to this
podcast will know how much we love Marrakesh and what
a wonderful place it is. And we spend every podcast
talking about all its great things. But probably something we
don't give enough attention to at times is the architecture,
because every building is different but still just so wonderful,
and you kind of we talk there about the plaster.
I'm looking around the room that we're in right now
(26:29):
and just all of this is done by hand, right,
all of these beautiful ceilings, all of these surrounds of mirrors,
like everything. It's just such an art. It's phenomenal, it.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Is, and it's it is you know, we are proud
to be restoring the building sympathetically and to be perpetuating
the crafts as well.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
There's a tendency now specifically in people who are flipping,
which is a strange term, but you know, if you
buy a ruin or a semi ruin and you want
to sell it on, a lot of people these days
will not be particularly respectful. They're looking to get in
and out as quickly as they can. And there's a
lot of generic reads on the market, so either which
(27:07):
have been demolished and rebuilt from the ground up, or
which have been restored but which lack a lot of
the Moroccan Dutch. So once you might put some decoration
in from Morocco, the building itself could be in Abizza
or Barcelona anyway, so there is some if you like.
The restoration of these good reads is very important now
for the cultural future of Marrakesh, and it's important that
(27:28):
people like Mike and others who are buying the good
reads that they actually look after them and put some
soul into it.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Obviously we talk a lot about property here, but this
is a lot to do with business, and I'd love
to just spend some time talking about business in Morocco.
Very fortunate here two chairs are two wonderful organizations, So
Mike being the chair of the British Moroccan Society and
Colin you're the chair of the British Business Association in Morocco.
The links between Morocco and the UK have been here
(27:58):
for a long time but seem to go from strength
to strength. But business here, what's it like and what's
the business community like?
Speaker 2 (28:06):
So it's very varied. There's not just hospitality, although hospitality
dominates in Marrakesh. We have members who are lawyers, who
are accountants, who are doctors, all professions really, so it's
a very very friendly business environment. I think once you've
got to grips with the basic administration, it is a
(28:28):
super place to come and set up business. There is
a lot of flexibility, there's a lot of opportunity, particularly
if you compare with Western Europe or the UK. You
can come in here and start a business, or you
can bring your business and get it going and with
your skills from Western Europe you will have a noted
advantage over the local population. So tax regimes are fair.
(28:49):
Employment while employment law, while tough and in favor of
the employee, is also a very good sign of security
for your business. I'm very enthusiastic about the situation now
and even more enthusiastic as we move forward.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I would really encourage anybody who is considering investing in Maracasha,
or opening a business here or trading here to contact
Colin and his colins at the BBA, who give very
generously of their of their time. There is a really
supportive and warm community here. I think from a some
(29:23):
of a UK perspective, you know, actually I'm not personally
a Brexiteer, but Brexit has been very, very kind to
the UK Morocco relationship, so a lot in in agri business,
you know, Morocco has replaced Spain as the main supplier
of tomatoes in the UK with a lot of a
lot of produce. Morocco has had a huge boom in automotive,
(29:44):
so Morocco is the largest exporter of cars, more cars
made in Morocco going to the EU than from any
other single country. Bearing in mind that when I bought
my first read in Marrakesh, Morocco did not make a
single car.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Up in the North. There's a lot of votive industry.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
There's been in it, you know, so that's a huge
area of growth, and I think there is such a
lot to do on a business level, both whether at
a sort of corporate level and a more modest SMEs
and family businesses.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And our association can provide a support to people who
are coming in to set up a business. So we
have hundreds of years of accumulated experience across the membership
and in all different fields. As I say, so, you know,
if you are thinking about setting up a business or
just coming to live, even in Marrakesh, you know you
should definitely get in touch with us and come around
for one of our little cocktails or come to a
business meeting and discuss your plans. And I'm sure you'll
(30:40):
find a lot of like minded.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
People, which is which is kind of bit the heart
of Marrakesh community is everywhere and particularly in this one too.
And Colin, what we do with everyone that comes onto
Maracas Rare podcast is love to hear their stories of
their personal favorite places to eat, to visit, to go,
the type of recommendation that you would giving anybody listened
to this podcast coming over. So let's start with food.
(31:04):
What do you recommend?
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Well, Morocco is blessed with the gastronomical wonders. It really is.
I think once you've had your fiftieth or one hundredth
tajin sometimes you like to move on to something else.
So when we have people here only for one day,
for example, we will take them to the Jaques and Deltas,
the Lotus Gardens, which are not so far from here,
fabulous environment. I know the owner very well. It's there's
(31:27):
a great bar, there's a great vibe. It goes from
being a very classy restaurant in the evening to quite
a jumpy place in the in the later evening with
DJs and things like that, all in a beautiful old
read so that if I only had one day, I
would go there. If I had a second night, I
might take them to the slightly more demure but also
fabulous Gaffia Arab in Wasne. If I'm out in town,
(31:50):
the Grand Cafide Lapost is an all time favorite. That's
an old French restaurant, very very well run and very
centrally located in Gillies. Or maybe I might go somewhere
a little bit more trendy or somewhere like that, which
is also very interesting. But now given my age, there
are a lot of places which I haven't been to,
(32:12):
specifically at the later times at night, because Marrakesh has
a fabulous nightlife. It really does. There are hundreds of nightclubs,
hundreds of rooftop bars, and a very cosmopolitan environment. And
when you think this is an Islamic country, it's it's
truly remarkable and truly tolerant, and yeah, you can't go
wrong in Marrakesh.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Marrakesh is a city, isn't it. There's incredible There is
an incredible diversity, and I think that's why it's so
interesting to hear a personal reco recommendation from a long
term resident.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Absolutely, Colin, thank you so much for coming on the
podcast today. It's been fantastic to have. Thank you for
having me a really interesting discussion. And the Collin's business
is Bosworth Property, So if you are looking at real
estate or considering investing into Marrakesh or Morocco, then definitely
get in touch with Colin. And the other organization we
talked about was the British Business Association ROCK. We'll put
(33:01):
links in the description of this podcast. Colin, thank you
so much for being on America's for Real podcast.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Thank you so much. A great pleasure.
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