Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So what's the podcast that you're doing. Tell us about it.
The wrestling podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
So the podcast is the podcast that's called the Josh
Zodiac Podcast. It stars him his brother called the Psycho Nerd.
Don't even ask me, and and myself. So and there's
a there's another co host that he's that he's brought
on and she's pretty good too. She's very knowledgeable. And
(00:27):
when we were doing the the live pl e's I
do the live recording. He does the podcast. So when
there's a live pl E a big one, I'm usually
the one that does it through my channel and he
joins in with with everybody, and you know, we cover
the matches. Yeah, but but he does it's like an hour.
It's it's an hour podcast and discuss various different topics,
(00:50):
usually about Ross SmackDown and what's going on with the
next p l E or other wrestling rumors, like we
talked about Hogan, we talked about and Cross and Scarlett
not being resigned, we talked about how bad they are.
It's just it's just completely, uh, all over the place wrestling.
(01:11):
So it's like, you know, we don't discuss because I know,
tough bumps. You focused on one topic and you guys
go on it for for how long? The show is
maybe two?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Not?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well you talk about several topics.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, no, we actually do. We actually do several topics
on on tough Bumps. What we do is so we
have the main event. Every week, we pick a subject
that we're going to cover in depth, and then but
we also have the undercard, and the undercard is usually
two or three subjects that we're we cover kind of
a short We have briefer conversations about leading up to
the main event. So then the main event will be
(01:45):
whatever it is, like like this past weekend, the main
event was aw kind of the history of ae W.
So we kind of we kind of do it that way.
But I mean that's but that's another great thing about
podcasting too, is you know you can do it anyway you.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Want to this.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
No, there's no rules, there's no format to follow. You
know you can it can change, it can evolve, it
can devolve, it can you know however you wanna, however
you want to do it. I feel like you have
you worked with Josh Zodiac before. The reason I ask
is I've heard that name and I think I've heard
you mentioned the name before Josh Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, I've actually just recently come on to his UHS
podcast uh as an official co host. He had me
on a guest a couple of times. But it's like, hey, listen,
you're really good. I like you the interaction that we have.
So it's like, I want to do a co something,
Sure if you want, absolutely, so Okay, usually every Saturday
we do we do a show or he records and uh,
(02:43):
but no, it's it's only been for a few months now.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Oh cool, Okay, I may I may have heard of
him elsewhere then I might have h I might have
seen something of Eric, might even know him.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
No, that's very cool, that's very cool. And and and
then so when do the whe doer the new episodes
come out? When should people look for him?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Is it two a week Sunday? It's it's just it's
just one a week. Usually they drop on Sunday. Okay,
he is. We're taking September off and then we're gonna
ramp up afterwards, get ready for or after Survivor series,
and then we'll go ahead and jump back into it.
But I may I may do Survivor series on my
(03:23):
end because I know, I think that what that's two
nights now again.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
The Survivor series two nights one night.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, I don't know. I think they're all going to
two nights. Crying out loud. That's what w W is
all about right now, is that they're all about making money.
And it's just really sad of how how downtry it
is with the new ESPN deal going on. It's like, gee, whiz, guys.
I mean, listen, you're already you're you're already firing up
(03:48):
and everything. How about giving the fans a break?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Huh yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Uh, it's just crazy.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
I am not buying ESPN. No, I am not buying it.
They can pound stand.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I'm done. Well, I already have.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I got I got Netflix to watch raw, I got
Peacock to watch pl E's I got. You know, I
gotta go to empty different places to watch stuff to
begin with. I'm done.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I'm not chasing them to ESPN.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Sand Well, so I heard that if you are subscribed
to ESPN, do your linear cable subscription. I think you're covered. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
No, I don't do cable.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
We cut the We cut the court a long time ago. Yeah,
we don't have cable we cut the cord a long
time ago.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Ridiculous costs.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It won't do it.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
It's so expensive for But now, in terms of though,
and this is a conversation that I had with Eric
on Tough Bumps, the easy workaround is you just get
a you know, you can get a VPN for like
six bucks a month and connect to because the ples
will still be available internationally on Netflix, just not in
the US. So you just get a you just get
a VPN. Netflix doesn't know where you're connecting from. You
(04:56):
can have access to everything, I mean really or just or.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Just or just contact me after the show and I'll
go ahead and give you information about you know, adding
you on to my family subscription on YouTube tv O.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Well, I agree with what you were saying before, and
now it just went out of my head.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Oh about it it being so expensive now to be
a fan? Yeah, right, it's.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Really it really gives something back to the fans, hih.
I mean we spent enough money buying, emptying different subscriptions
to watch umpthing different things. And you know, but I
agree with you one hundred percent. And I hate the
direction they're going in. I don't like the way they're
treating talent, especially truth.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I yeah, right, I think talent's being treated a lot
better than they were with Vince. To be honest with you,
there may be some one offs, yes, for for talent
that I think. I think Truth was brought back based
on fan pressure, which if you think about it, wouldn't
have not affected Vince one bit, right, because the fans
(06:01):
are calling out for names. Triple H is listening to
the fans. So I think the talent is treated a
lot better nowadays.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Well maybe a little bit in that regard. But to
drop somebody with no notice, no nothing, just ah, yeah,
we've been with us for decades, but goodbye, see it
hour get out that that's the way that they've dropped people, uh,
you know, is awful. They don't have discussions with them.
They just wait till the end and then go oh
yeah you're gone. And people have been with them, people
(06:32):
their lives are invested. Yeah, that's how you treat people.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
For Jenny, they they've they've they've done massive cuts before
just to save They've done that way before. The Truth.
It's just the fact of the matter that Truth is
such such is so beloved. Yeah, he's such a he's
basically I guarantee you when he retires he finally hangs
(06:57):
up his boots, I guarantee you he's going to be
in Bastad.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Oh yeah, he'll always have some sort of a connection
of the company, I'm sure, Yeah, regardless, but not.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
The only one though that they just drop like that.
Well yeah, but been around forever and it's just you're gone.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, I do think. I do think though, with with
some people. I mean, if you reach a point where
you don't think you can, you know, then.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Have a discussion with them.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Be honest, don't be like Cross.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Well, the Carrion Cross thing seems like a unique situation.
Did you watch did you watch him? Excuse me, I'm
losing my voice, Charles, did you watch? Jenny and I
watched both the documentary, uh, the Killer Cross Part two
slash My Contract Just Ended or whatever it's called. And
we watched the Aeriel Helwani interview where Carrion Cross to
(07:45):
me comes across no pun intended really well. And in
the documentary both he and Scarlett come across really well,
and it's it's easy to have a lot of sympathy
for them. Did you watch either of those or both
of those?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
No? Unfortunately, I can't say I have. Yeah, but here's
my take on Carrion's I'm gonna be honest with you,
and this is just what I see. Either Creative has
dropped the ball massively, yes, or Carrion just does not
get over with the fans at all. I mean he
number one. If you take a look at his erring work,
(08:20):
I can see why the guy only wrestles one time
a year. The guy is dangerous. You think that that match,
that match is dammy Zaye. Literally I saw one or
two inches where he could be paralyzed. The Yeah, it was.
It was some scary stuff. Me, me and Joshua we're
(08:43):
talking about that match, and it's like, yeah, he is unsafe.
He is unsafe. It's it's not a good performance at all.
His character is lackluster at best. I loved it when
he was with AOP and had the the Final Testament.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Oh, the Final Testament.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, that was where he That is where I think
he should. He needs to be surrounded by talent. He
cannot hold himself with his character. He cannot. So either
Creative is dropping the ball, finding nothing legitimate that he
can do well, or he just excuse my French sucks
(09:26):
and he just needs to go.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I would definitely put it on creative because you know,
just hearing the guy talk, even in see I've always
been impressed with him in in interviews, various podcast interviews
I've seen with him over the years and whatnot. He's
so articulate and so interesting. It's like, how do you
not find something to do with this guy? And then
in recent days when he did that that promo that
(09:51):
was like a worked shoot where you know he did
he did that that promo after WrestleMania where he was
complaining about not being on the show and and he
threw down the mic crophone and said that's killer cross
and everything. And then people really got behind him after that,
and apparently his merchandise sales through WWE dot com spiked massively,
and his book, his new book that just came out,
(10:14):
Life is Fighting, is doing very well. So there's clearly
the fans want him, they want to get behind him.
I put it all on creative. How do you not
make money with this guy? And I've always felt that
like they they did well with him in NXT when
Triple H was running NXT, but then you know, they
brought him up to the main roster. Vince was still
in charge, so Vince immediately ruined him. They released him,
(10:36):
they brought him back, and then they's like they can't
figure out what to do with him, and it's like,
how do you not find something for this guy to do?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I put it on creative. Not every NXT champion or
somebody that's rising up from NXT goes to the main
roster and succeeds. It's just not that. And also there
may be other works behind the scenes. There could be
some back back uh uh, there could be some drama
(11:05):
going on backstage. There could be some obviously creative differences,
I'm sure backstage. But the thing is, though, just just
seeing what I've seen on camera, it's very bland. It's
it's it's not it's not entertaining for me at least.
(11:26):
I mean again, it sounds like you and Jenny Field differently,
but it's not entertaining for me. And and and I
find his wrestling style is very dangerous.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I will say I don't think his ring work.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I've never noticed the dangerous aspect of that, but I
would be curious, like Jenny said, you know, maybe we'll
go back and watch that match. But I will say
I've never found his ringwork to be particularly spectacular. Like
I don't expect to hear this is awesome chant during
a Carrion cross match.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
No, but but again it's it's it's it's far but
it's it's far from spectacularly. It's down it's downright bad.
It really is. The I don't know because listen, when
you take a look and you're inside that ring, you
are dancing with your dance partner. I mean, yes, it's
kind of sad to say because they're wearing tight, tight
(12:17):
shorts and everything like that, and you know, it's just
you just think about that. It's just like, Okay, you're
dancing with a dude, all right, whatever, But they're dancing
and your dance partner. Somebody has to lead, somebody has
to Communication is always a spot Sammy Zain, whether it
be with Jay Usso, whether it be with the Bloodline,
(12:38):
whether it be with Kevin Owens. Sammy Zaine's beautiful. He
twinkle toes around that ring like nobody ever great. I
seemy carry and crossing and I'm almost ready to cry
because there is no twinkle toes. Something's off and it's
can't be Sammy, because I've seen Sammy Inner act with
(13:00):
other wrestlers and he is just beautiful. It's great, it's artwork.
It's not art, it's it's just it's maybe it's not dangerous,
but it's just not good.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I do think they had a good match at SummerSlam.
I thought it was I thought it was very good.
I mean, I you know, I didn't have any complaints
about it, certainly, but I think the I.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Think the drama and the interaction, the interference with scarlet
with the bar, I like that. But there was a
couple of bumps there where I was like, please get up, Sammy,
please get up, Please don't do the referee, don't do
the x uh. It's just it's there's there's some of
the bumps that I just saw the like, I mean, okay,
that didn't look that didn't look good.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I do have to acknowledge my favorite part of any
carrying cross match has always been the entrance. I think
the entrance is incredible. I think I think, I think
that the whole thing is really good. But but he
also said it is the.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Best part of carrying cross is the entrance. You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
He did say during the uh the Ariel hill Wana
interview too, that they so you said you didn't watch it, correct,
He said that, he said that it's it's really it's
really good. But he said that they did make him
an offer. It's not that they didn't make him an offer.
They did make him an offer. But there were two
(14:22):
things that there were a problem. One is he wanted
to know how they arrived at that number. So I
assume it was a low number because he again, there's
been a just recently, there was a pretty big spike
in his merchandise sales apparently, so they wanted to know
how they arrived at number. At that number, he didn't
say no, He just said, you know, let's continue the conversation.
And the other sticking point was they did not offer
her Scarlet anything. They offered him a new deal. They
(14:44):
did not offer Scarlett a new deal. And he says
that what they told him was that they would sign him,
let's get your deal locked in, and then will we'll
figure out Scarlet, which I can understand him being very
concerned about that for two reasons. Number One, she's a
huge part of the act. You know, it's hard to
imagine him without her. But also I would be worried
(15:07):
about Okay, so you want to sign me, You want
me to hurry up and sign this deal and then
we'll and then we'll deal with Scarlett afterward. I'm worried
that there's not going to be a follow through there. Okay,
I'm going to sign this deal that you, for some reason,
are in such a hurry for me to go ahead
and sign, because you're telling me, if I don't sign
it in twenty four hours, you're rescinding the offer. No
ongoing contract negotiations. Either sign this or you resined, and
(15:30):
then I'm supposed to just trust you that then you're
going to talk to Scarlet or we're going to sit
down and negotiate something for Scarlet as well. That is
that sounded pretty sketchy to me, So I don't blame
him for saying no, agreed.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, I agree with that, because listen, what does my
deal have to do with Scarlett? Scarlett has her own deal.
How about we get Scarlett on board first, Yeah, and
then talk to me. I think, honestly, it's a way
to go ahead and break this apart, because number one,
Scarlet's not a wrestler. She has not wrestled. She is
a valet.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I think she hasn't she has.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Unfortunately, I think I.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Thought she had wrestled in the net to my recollection.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
If she had a long time.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, probably been a long time. But I mean, I
know she takes bumps and everything. I thought she had
wrestled at one time. I'm looking it up now.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, she probably has trained before. Yeah, definitely look it up. Yeah,
but she's probably trained before to go ahead and said bumps.
But she's primarily a vala. And I don't think WWE,
especially with them cracking down on salary and everything like that,
I don't think they're gonna go ahead and pay a vala,
which is weird. You're going ahead and bumping up to
(16:43):
ESPN for thirty dollars a month. You're already telling people
to pay for Netflix for raw and you're cutting salary.
Really okay, I mean, I you know, I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, I'm looking on Wikipedia.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
It looks like I.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Get Peacock for the play.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And and and they're also bumping up because they said
when they signed this deal with ESPN that their first
p l E was going to be wrestle Mania next year.
They're bumping it up to something called Russell Polluta yep
in September yep, y she with.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I think their money. I think they're greedy as heck.
They got that company's got so much money. Now then
Nikol and Diamond, the artists who are contracted, they.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Don't get healthcare.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
They got to pay their own healthcare everything else. Right,
That's why I think people don't understand that sometimes too,
because they think they're employees, right, They're non employees. They're
independent contract They got to work around from the government basically,
and it's stuck.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
They yeah, they're I mean, obviously there's there's another wrestling
promotion out there. If you don't make it a WWE,
go over the w see what they can do. You
got full creative control. You have another con and debt
that didn't charge. So you go from Tony to Neck
or Nick to Tony. I don't know. I forgot whose
con is open. They're both cons.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Sorry I had to do it.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
God, I can't go over to the aw there. You
know they you know that they're they're thriving as well.
I mean, look how awesome they are. I mean, look, look,
I mean just just think about it. Chris Jericho went
from w w E to a W possibly.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Back to w w E most likely.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I thought that, Come on, now, Tony Rhodes goes ahead
and flicks off w w E when he goes to AW.
Now it's back to w w E. What's going on?
How come you can't keep their talent, talent that they
take from w w E. Well, it's not working. Now,
next thing you know, we're getting Dan Ambrose back, right.
Is that what's gonna happen next?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I hope, so, I hope. So that was something that
Eric and I talked about too on Tough Bumps. By
the way, if you're just joining us, we have Charles
Richardson from the Charles Richardson Show on the line with us,
and and uh oh, and of course the pot what's
the name of the wrestling podcast? Is it the Josh
Zodiac Show? Yes, the Josh Zodiac Podcast, the Josh Zodiac Podcast.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I want to make sure I get it right. When
when when we did? Uh yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
This past Sunday on the newest edition of Tough Bumps,
it was a history of ae W and Eric and
I talked a lot about how the worst thing that
happened to ae W was and Eric and I disagree
on a lot of things, but on this I think
we agreed is that when when Vince ended up having
to permanently leave WWE because with Triple H in charge
(19:46):
of creative because the whole reason that ae W was
so successful in the beginning and to a large extent
still is I mean, doing thirty thousand people in a
stadium in Texas is pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
But the reason they.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Were so successful initially was because they were offering an
alternative to what had become very very stale, a very
stale product under Vince. I was saying to Eric, you know,
for years, I didn't even sit down. I wouldn't even
sit down and sit through an episode of Raw or SmackDown.
I would just go on YouTube and find find out
whatever happened and just watch whatever clips looked interesting to me.
(20:20):
And that was it. So I never fully disengaged from
the product. But so, you know, so AW was filling
that void, and then of course Triple H, who I
wasn't surprised because I was watching NXT because when Triple
H was in charge of NXT, NXC was phenomenal. And uh,
you know, so when Triple h got to take over
full creative on the full roster, on the main roster.
(20:43):
You know, that was all of a sudden AEW. It's
kind of like, don't really need it after all now
that WWE is running on all cylinders again for the
first time in a long time. But that's but I
do think that AEW is a net positive for the business.
I think that the business always thrives when you have
competitive forces within it. The more promotions that are successful,
(21:05):
the better, because a high tide raises all ships interests
in wrestling. You know, it's it's so strong right now.
Even TNA Jenny and I were watching a little bit
of Slammiversary. They were that was their biggest North American
crowd for Slamiversary, almost eight thousand people. I think their
partnership with WWE helps drive that. But I do think
AEW holds an important place in the market, and I
(21:28):
think there I think it's a net positive that they're around.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, it's it's definitely going to be a net positive
for AW no matter what, because it's an alternative and
when you can go ahead and finally get your creative
brains intact and actually bump heads literally sometimes and you
go ahead and get Edge and Christian back together. That's
going to generate some interest, like, hmmm, how does this
(21:54):
Rated R superstar Adam Copeland going to do with Christian
Cage now that they're reunited. Interesting storyline. It drove me
interest in ae W because I want to see what
these two are gonna go at. Right, And that was
the first time I heard of Spike apparently with that
(22:14):
bat just oh gruesome. Yeah, anyway, I don't like that.
I'm like, I'm like, you know what, Let's see what happens.
Let's see where they go from here, because they're taking
a definite tag team, a formidable tag team, hall of
Fame tag team, and they're bringing it to their forefront.
(22:36):
Now let's see how they do.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, yeah, I think, Uh so, we don't. We don't
watch much a w uh. Basically, if there's a you know,
if they have a big event or something, there's a
website Toki video dot Com that posts, uh the individual
matches from their pay per views, you know, usually a
week or two after they happened.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
But but yeah, I think I think, you know, are
they not?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Are they not? Are they not stream on Max? They're
they're paid per views? I know they're streaming like dynamite
in Oh yeah, Max Max.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, we have Max Max.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
We've we've actually watched one of the shows on Max.
We've never watched any of their p L E s
on Max.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
But I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, with all the streaming services, it gets confusing. It's
hard to keep up with it all.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I'm ready to dump some. But but part of part
of why.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It's amazing Max, it's it's it's amazing. Mat the chord. Yeah,
cut the cord, everybody, cut the streaming. You're spending more
now on streaming than you did. I'm not.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
I'm actually not spending more on streaming than I was
paying the cable because it was ridiculously expensive.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
A lot of people are, a lot of people are
though cable.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Cable is far from dead, that's for sure. Yeah, I Uh.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Part of why we were having that conversation on Tough
Bumps was Eric is. Eric is much more negative on
ae W than I am. Like I said, I think,
I think Uh, I think Cody Rhads his return to
w WE UH would not have been nearly as important
and as big a deal had it not been for
(24:15):
ae W, even CM Punk. You know, I mean, it
still would have been a big deal him returning to WWE,
his surprise appearance at Survivor Series UH when he returned.
But again, had it had it not been for his UH,
had it not been for ae W getting him back
into the game first, I don't think it would have
meant as much. You know, I think ae W. I
(24:37):
think a W has directly benefited WWE in some ways.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I really do.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I agree, and then I disagree because Cody Rhoades developed
himself in the Indies before AW even took place.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
That was Eric sent.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That the American Nightmare persona theme song and everything was
before a W. So he actually went ahead and created
himself before then he was able to make a stage
on AW. So I agreed to that point. I agreed
to that point that Cody went ahead and turned some
heads like, Wow, this guy can actually perform. You don't
(25:15):
have to put him in a goofy gold out and
called Stardust. That's great. See them punk on the other hand,
see him punk. On the other hand, he had to
try another promotion because of his experience with w W E,
his negative experience with w W and at the time
he went to AW vincents Stone charge anyway, So why
(25:36):
would he go back to a toxic relationship with that,
right And of course, if you haven't seen Unreal, we
watched you to know that. Yeah, it's it's that. That's
freaking great, it really is. But that right there not
even unreal, just just a hole behind the scenes of
how CM punk got back. It was the last minute deal.
(25:58):
This thing wasn't like etchton Stone. Before Survivor series hit,
nobody knew except three people, and.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
One of them was Aja.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So he did he and he was hidden behind everything.
He got into Gorilla Formation and like, wow, Sam Punk
is here. Yep, yeah, it's just he literally signed that
contract like ten minutes before.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
So there was a coming to Jesus moment with Triple
H saying, listen, we know we messed up. We know
this hap happened. We know that happened. This is how
it is now. We know there's a lot of wrongs
that have been righted and and this is this is
what we can offer you. And I think Sampunk came back,
but I think he had to try another promotion to
(26:42):
see what exactly what it's like outside of w WE.
Before he came back.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I also have a theory you know that you know
that show that cmpunk showed up at, this was when
he was on the outs with AW. He was still
under contract, but he out with his with his injury.
Poor guy, He's had a lot of injuries. But so
he was he was away from the promotion and and
of course it was an ongoing story that he was
at odds with some of the people there and like
(27:12):
Jack Perry, and his relationship with Tony Cohn was pretty strained.
And then there was that WWE show that he showed
up at just to say hi to some people backstage,
and ye and and Vince got went and Vince got
wind of it and kicked him out. And and by
the way, Vin Vince I think was probably right to
do that because Vince does not want to be sued
for contract hampering, you know, because if he's aware of
(27:34):
the situation, he knows, assuming he was aware, he knew
that cm punk was still under contract with AEW but
having problems. So it's not necessarily a great look that,
you know, while still under contract with AW, cmpunk has
just showing up at a show.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
But that night, apparently.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Before before Vince gave word that, No, you got to
get him out of here. We can't have him in
the building. Kick him out. He did have a brief
interaction with Triple A. I just wonder how that interaction
went because I have this I have a theory. It's
just a theory. I you know, can't base it on anything,
(28:09):
But is it possible that part of that introduction Apparently
it was very very brief, just kind of saying hello
to each other. But I wonder if Punk said something like, uh,
you know, to Triple H, hey, you know, someday, when
I'm not under contract somewhere else, I might like to
come back here, you know, just kind of throwing that
out there in Triple H may have said something like, hey,
(28:30):
you know, if you weren't under contract, we'd love to
have you back. Who knows what the future, you know,
just something, just a brief interaction like that, and they'll
know and if that conversation did take place, they'll never
admit it. But I just know, but I can't help.
But wonder if it did.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You know, I have my own theory and it's it's
it's definitely not Rustling related. So my theory is damn
Punk works up to triple h and it's like, hey,
how are you and Stephanie doing? Yeah, yeah, we're doing great.
I mean you're doing great. You won't get together and have.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
A foursome, really that's your theory?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And yeah, so well, Charles, I mean you're definitely thinking
outside the box, because I can honestly tell you with
with all the sincerity, that never occurred to me.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yeah. So, uh, what do you watch any a W
now or do you only watch.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
W W E? It's it's mainly w W E. But
you know, I kind of keep tabs on stuff with
a W like I you know, I wouldn't have known
about edging Christian. I knew they were feuding with with
with each other. I think, yeah there was one time
Christian hug Edge and told them you know, oh yeah yeah,
and that's okay, wow, yeah. But you know, I I
(30:00):
kind of keep tabs, like, you know, apparently they got
something going now, which okay, maybe I might tune in
to see what's going on if they're advertised and see
what's doing, but I'm primarily WW.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, I'll watch any Will Osprey match and he of course,
you know an AEW and you know a big fan
of MJF. Haven't kept up, haven't kept up with what
they've been doing. But boy, there's so much. There's just
so much content now, I mean, and WWE is pumping
out more content than ever.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Is MJF like part of the Hurt syndicate now with
lash Lee and the MVP.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
From what I saw online, he was, but now he's out.
They kicked him out or something, so I don't know,
I haven't, but that's you know, it's hard though. See,
that's the other thing with AEW. And this is something
where I think Tony Kahn probably has something in common
with Vince McMahon that wanting to have full control over
creative to the point where you know nothing's being.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Delegated or if it is being well.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Obviously in WW, Evans was delegating because he had a
full writing team, but then you know he'd end up
tearing up the script and rewriting it himself anyway, And
I think that you know, what AEW needs, what Tony
Kahan needs is somebody or a team of people who
can do what Triple H has done, recommit to long
term logical storytelling where you can get really invested in
these characters, because that's the most important thing. That's what
(31:21):
makes w WE, in my opinion, so successful. Now I've
argued to Eric that to me, wrestling is better than
it's ever been because there's more, there's more of a
focus on long term storytelling. There's surprises, but everything is logical,
but also character development. I can't remember ever, and I've
been watching since I was a kid, I can't remember
ever a time when there was as much character development
(31:44):
as we see now and a willingness to make these
characters complex and you know they've got levels to them.
That's why now you'll see babyfaces fighting with other babyfaces
that used to be never a thing, but now you
know you can have that, or heels fighting with other
heels because the audience has been conditioned to accept these
are complex characters and not everything is black and white,
(32:05):
and people who are you know, good guys can actually
fight with other good guys, and bad guys can actually
fight with other bad guys because you know sometimes in
real life that happens, right, So I think ae w
if Tony Kahn would just allow somebody who really has
a good creative mind, who can do what Triple H
has done, come into aew and recommit to long term storytelling.
(32:28):
I think they'd be a lot more successful. And they're
already pretty successful, let's be honest, but I think they'd
be a lot more successful.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, they still have a long way to go. They're
still in the baby, the d infant stages, maybe even
the Toddless stages, but definitely, definitely. I do have a
couple of questions because I know we're running out of
time here, so I want to I have a couple
of questions. Number one, and please assume that I have
not heard this on Tough Bumps. Okay, but tell me
(32:55):
what was your reaction to Hogan's death?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So we tried on Tough Bumps, we tried to present
kind of a measured, fair assessment. I mean, I can
tell you my personal reaction. When I saw the news
alert on my phone. I was kind of numb. It
was like wow, you know because, on one hand, a
huge part of my childhood and obviously Hogan a huge
part of professional wrestling, something that I'm passionate about. So
(33:23):
it was like, wow, it's kind of stunning, but it's
also hard to get past because I don't think he
ever effectively dealt with it. You know, his racist comments
that were recorded during that encounter with Bubba the love
Sponges wife, which is still even weird to say, but
you know, the just objectively extraordinarily racist, shockingly racist things
(33:48):
that he said during that conversation that was recorded, which yeah,
he did the whole apology tour and everything, but he
never really dealt with the central His comments were very
specific and he never dealt with specifically what he was
wrestling with no pun intended when expressing himself during that conversation.
(34:09):
He never dealt with that specifically, at least not publicly,
and a lot of people felt like his apologies were
half hearted and insufficient, and he never fully recovered from that, obviously.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
So we tried to so we tried to be very
fair about it.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
And to be honest with you, he was apparently in
his private life a very manipulative person. Because Brooke Hogan,
his daughter, called in on Bubba and they haven't spoken
in years because of the fallout between Hogan and Bubba. Yeah,
and Brooke even said that, hey, my dad told me
(34:48):
about the tape and he knew you didn't have anything
to do with it. Even though Bubba lost his home,
he got fired everything that laid down. Hogan never came
to his defense, even though he admitted to Brook that, yeah,
I know, Bubba had nothing to do with it, right,
So just on that alone, I think he was not
(35:11):
a good human being. Let's put it that way. Now.
Is that Is that justified to say, like, well, thank
god he's dead. No, of course not. I mean I
think the way he there's actually a criminal investigation going
on the that he may have been murdered.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Jenny and I were talking about that earlier.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Not murdered, there may have been medical malpractice, medical malpractice.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, yeah, question during a surgery.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
He had a surgery apparently recently, and there's question as
to whether or not his frontic nerve was damaged or
severed and restitched or something. And he also had a
feb so I guess the combo wasn't too good and
they think that might have actually been what caused his death,
in which case it would be a medical practice.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Okay, I know that there was a police investigation going on.
I think it's still going on.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Yeah, yeah, it's still going on. It's still going on. Yeah, Yeah,
could be wrongful death, who knows.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Another question Matt, how do you feel of Sina's so
called heel turn, oh versus face turn? It was that
a flop? Or is that you think was successful?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I so, I'm I'm I know, I'm very much in
the minority when I say this. I loved, first of all,
the heel turn itself was amazing, and I think most
people would agree on that. The actual heel turn itself
was fantastic. It was so so, so well done. The
subsequent him as a heel, the heel version of John Cena. Again,
(36:45):
I know, I'm in the minority. I was really enjoying it.
I understand why people didn't like that he I think
people a lot of people wanted him to be more
overtly evil and whatnot, where he actually underplayed it. But
I liked it. I thought it was cool. I thought
it was very intriguing. I really enjoyed it, and I
thought the face turned back seemed a little rushed.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
What were you gonna.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Say wrestling thing? Oh? Yeah, that was so funny. Yeah,
when he's like, I'm going to ruin wrestling.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I loved that.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I loved that too.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I thought it was cool. I really enjoyed heel John Cena.
What did you think.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed his promos, but
it started to get a little repetitive, like he didn't
have anything new coming out. It's just kept saying the
same thing over and over again.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
It's just that is true.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
It kind of got repetitive. So I think when Cody
finally because you're right, it did feel rushed a little bit,
but you saw bits and pieces of good scene it
coming out the past few weeks before that, and I
think I think they were trying to lead up to it,
but obviously they wanted to take the belt off him
and put on Cody. So, uh, mister Lesnar can go
(37:56):
ahead and a big introduction.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Oh yeah, yeah, what do you think about that one
coming back?
Speaker 3 (38:04):
What do you think about Lesner coming back?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
I love it? You love it? I know, I know.
It was basically it was basically John's wish to go
ahead and wrestle Leslo. That's why he's back. It's it
has nothing to do with well, he's gonna draw big
money and no, no, he'll he'll draw big money. But
that was a request from Sina. Sina wants to get
all of his his adversaries. Yes, it was reported Sina
(38:30):
requested Lesna. Yeah, so he wants to fight Leslo one more. Yeah.
So this retirement tour is basically to get all If
you ever seen Rocky five, where it's like, listen, I
gotta get the beast out of me. I I can't
hold on. He's trying to get the beast out of
literally in this case, he's trying to get the beast.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yeah, but yeah, he's going to take care of everybody
that he needs one more time.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, no that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Which I don't agree. I don't. I don't agree with
Logan Paul. Why would he be on that list? I
don't understand that that storyline one one bit.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, Charles, we are approaching the top of the hour,
so we got to begin to wrap up. The time
goes so quickly. But we should definitely do this more often,
my friend, because I always enjoy having you on and
you know, and anytime you want me to be on
your show, I'd love to do that as well. But
I do want to make sure, so where should people
go to find not only your show but also the
(39:25):
show that you do with Josh Zodiac. I want to
make sure everyone knows where to go to find your content.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
So my show search the Charles Richardson Show on Facebook
like my page. All my shows go live on that
on that page from eight to ten pm Monday Wednesday.
Hopefully both and any interaction or possible topics I may
be talking about will be listed there as well. I
(39:53):
used as my reference set Okay YouTube same thing search
search the Charles Richardson Show. I have a channel with
so many subscribers, kidding, but so many subscribers that you
can go ahead and do. It's free for now, but
after that it's gonna be twenty nine ninety five. I'm
watching my own app with competing against the ESPN the
(40:15):
Josh Zodiac podcast. Same thing, Josh Zodiac podcast on all
social media. He is available on podcast on the podcast
on iHeartRadio, Apple podcasts, anywhere podcasts are done. You can
search that right there and boom it pops up.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Fantastic, fantastic, Well, Charles, thank you so much, my friend.
Like I said, we must do this more often, and
I really appreciate you. Appreciate you joining us today, and
we'll talk again soon, I'm sure,
So what's the podcast that you're doing. Tell us about it.
The wrestling podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
So the podcast is the podcast that's called the Josh
Zodiac Podcast. It stars him his brother called the Psycho Nerd.
Don't even ask me, and and myself. So and there's
a there's another co host that he's that he's brought
on and she's pretty good too. She's very knowledgeable. And
(00:27):
when we were doing the the live pl e's I
do the live recording. He does the podcast. So when
there's a live pl E a big one, I'm usually
the one that does it through my channel and he
joins in with with everybody, and you know, we cover
the matches. Yeah, but but he does it's like an hour.
It's it's an hour podcast and discuss various different topics,
(00:50):
usually about Ross SmackDown and what's going on with the
next p l E or other wrestling rumors, like we
talked about Hogan, we talked about and Cross and Scarlett
not being resigned, we talked about how bad they are.
It's just it's just completely, uh, all over the place wrestling.
(01:11):
So it's like, you know, we don't discuss because I know,
tough bumps. You focused on one topic and you guys
go on it for for how long? The show is
maybe two?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Not?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well you talk about several topics.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, no, we actually do. We actually do several topics
on on tough Bumps. What we do is so we
have the main event. Every week, we pick a subject
that we're going to cover in depth, and then but
we also have the undercard, and the undercard is usually
two or three subjects that we're we cover kind of
a short We have briefer conversations about leading up to
the main event. So then the main event will be
(01:45):
whatever it is, like like this past weekend, the main
event was aw kind of the history of ae W.
So we kind of we kind of do it that way.
But I mean that's but that's another great thing about
podcasting too, is you know you can do it anyway you.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Want to this.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
No, there's no rules, there's no format to follow. You
know you can it can change, it can evolve, it
can devolve, it can you know however you wanna, however
you want to do it. I feel like you have
you worked with Josh Zodiac before. The reason I ask
is I've heard that name and I think I've heard
you mentioned the name before Josh Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, I've actually just recently come on to his UHS
podcast uh as an official co host. He had me
on a guest a couple of times. But it's like, hey, listen,
you're really good. I like you the interaction that we have.
So it's like, I want to do a co something,
Sure if you want, absolutely, so Okay, usually every Saturday
we do we do a show or he records and uh,
(02:43):
but no, it's it's only been for a few months now.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Oh cool, Okay, I may I may have heard of
him elsewhere then I might have h I might have
seen something of Eric, might even know him.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
No, that's very cool, that's very cool. And and and
then so when do the whe doer the new episodes
come out? When should people look for him?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Is it two a week Sunday? It's it's just it's
just one a week. Usually they drop on Sunday. Okay,
he is. We're taking September off and then we're gonna
ramp up afterwards, get ready for or after Survivor series,
and then we'll go ahead and jump back into it.
But I may I may do Survivor series on my
(03:23):
end because I know, I think that what that's two
nights now again.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
The Survivor series two nights one night.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, I don't know. I think they're all going to
two nights. Crying out loud. That's what w W is
all about right now, is that they're all about making money.
And it's just really sad of how how downtry it
is with the new ESPN deal going on. It's like, gee, whiz, guys.
I mean, listen, you're already you're you're already firing up
(03:48):
and everything. How about giving the fans a break?
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Huh yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Uh, it's just crazy.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
I am not buying ESPN. No, I am not buying it.
They can pound stand.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
I'm done. Well, I already have.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
I got I got Netflix to watch raw, I got
Peacock to watch pl E's I got. You know, I
gotta go to empty different places to watch stuff to
begin with. I'm done.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I'm not chasing them to ESPN.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Sand Well, so I heard that if you are subscribed
to ESPN, do your linear cable subscription. I think you're covered. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
No, I don't do cable.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
We cut the We cut the court a long time ago. Yeah,
we don't have cable we cut the cord a long
time ago.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Ridiculous costs.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
It won't do it.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
It's so expensive for But now, in terms of though,
and this is a conversation that I had with Eric
on Tough Bumps, the easy workaround is you just get
a you know, you can get a VPN for like
six bucks a month and connect to because the ples
will still be available internationally on Netflix, just not in
the US. So you just get a you just get
a VPN. Netflix doesn't know where you're connecting from. You
(04:56):
can have access to everything, I mean really or just or.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Just or just contact me after the show and I'll
go ahead and give you information about you know, adding
you on to my family subscription on YouTube tv O.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Well, I agree with what you were saying before, and
now it just went out of my head.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Oh about it it being so expensive now to be
a fan? Yeah, right, it's.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
Really it really gives something back to the fans, hih.
I mean we spent enough money buying, emptying different subscriptions
to watch umpthing different things. And you know, but I
agree with you one hundred percent. And I hate the
direction they're going in. I don't like the way they're
treating talent, especially truth.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I yeah, right, I think talent's being treated a lot
better than they were with Vince. To be honest with you,
there may be some one offs, yes, for for talent
that I think. I think Truth was brought back based
on fan pressure, which if you think about it, wouldn't
have not affected Vince one bit, right, because the fans
(06:01):
are calling out for names. Triple H is listening to
the fans. So I think the talent is treated a
lot better nowadays.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Well maybe a little bit in that regard. But to
drop somebody with no notice, no nothing, just ah, yeah,
we've been with us for decades, but goodbye, see it
hour get out that that's the way that they've dropped people, uh,
you know, is awful. They don't have discussions with them.
They just wait till the end and then go oh
yeah you're gone. And people have been with them, people
(06:32):
their lives are invested. Yeah, that's how you treat people.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
For Jenny, they they've they've they've done massive cuts before
just to save They've done that way before. The Truth.
It's just the fact of the matter that Truth is
such such is so beloved. Yeah, he's such a he's
basically I guarantee you when he retires he finally hangs
(06:57):
up his boots, I guarantee you he's going to be
in Bastad.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Oh yeah, he'll always have some sort of a connection
of the company, I'm sure, Yeah, regardless, but not.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
The only one though that they just drop like that.
Well yeah, but been around forever and it's just you're gone.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, I do think. I do think though, with with
some people. I mean, if you reach a point where
you don't think you can, you know, then.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Have a discussion with them.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Be honest, don't be like Cross.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Well, the Carrion Cross thing seems like a unique situation.
Did you watch did you watch him? Excuse me, I'm
losing my voice, Charles, did you watch? Jenny and I
watched both the documentary, uh, the Killer Cross Part two
slash My Contract Just Ended or whatever it's called. And
we watched the Aeriel Helwani interview where Carrion Cross to
(07:45):
me comes across no pun intended really well. And in
the documentary both he and Scarlett come across really well,
and it's it's easy to have a lot of sympathy
for them. Did you watch either of those or both
of those?
Speaker 2 (07:59):
No? Unfortunately, I can't say I have. Yeah, but here's
my take on Carrion's I'm gonna be honest with you,
and this is just what I see. Either Creative has
dropped the ball massively, yes, or Carrion just does not
get over with the fans at all. I mean he
number one. If you take a look at his erring work,
(08:20):
I can see why the guy only wrestles one time
a year. The guy is dangerous. You think that that match,
that match is dammy Zaye. Literally I saw one or
two inches where he could be paralyzed. The Yeah, it was.
It was some scary stuff. Me, me and Joshua we're
(08:43):
talking about that match, and it's like, yeah, he is unsafe.
He is unsafe. It's it's not a good performance at all.
His character is lackluster at best. I loved it when
he was with AOP and had the the Final Testament.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Oh, the Final Testament.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, that was where he That is where I think
he should. He needs to be surrounded by talent. He
cannot hold himself with his character. He cannot. So either
Creative is dropping the ball, finding nothing legitimate that he
can do well, or he just excuse my French sucks
(09:26):
and he just needs to go.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, I would.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
I would definitely put it on creative because you know,
just hearing the guy talk, even in see I've always
been impressed with him in in interviews, various podcast interviews
I've seen with him over the years and whatnot. He's
so articulate and so interesting. It's like, how do you
not find something to do with this guy? And then
in recent days when he did that that promo that
(09:51):
was like a worked shoot where you know he did
he did that that promo after WrestleMania where he was
complaining about not being on the show and and he
threw down the mic crophone and said that's killer cross
and everything. And then people really got behind him after that,
and apparently his merchandise sales through WWE dot com spiked massively,
and his book, his new book that just came out,
(10:14):
Life is Fighting, is doing very well. So there's clearly
the fans want him, they want to get behind him.
I put it all on creative. How do you not
make money with this guy? And I've always felt that
like they they did well with him in NXT when
Triple H was running NXT, but then you know, they
brought him up to the main roster. Vince was still
in charge, so Vince immediately ruined him. They released him,
(10:36):
they brought him back, and then they's like they can't
figure out what to do with him, and it's like,
how do you not find something for this guy to do?
Speaker 3 (10:43):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
I put it on creative. Not every NXT champion or
somebody that's rising up from NXT goes to the main
roster and succeeds. It's just not that. And also there
may be other works behind the scenes. There could be
some back back uh uh, there could be some drama
(11:05):
going on backstage. There could be some obviously creative differences,
I'm sure backstage. But the thing is, though, just just
seeing what I've seen on camera, it's very bland. It's
it's it's not it's not entertaining for me at least.
(11:26):
I mean again, it sounds like you and Jenny Field differently,
but it's not entertaining for me. And and and I
find his wrestling style is very dangerous.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
I will say I don't think his ring work.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I've never noticed the dangerous aspect of that, but I
would be curious, like Jenny said, you know, maybe we'll
go back and watch that match. But I will say
I've never found his ringwork to be particularly spectacular. Like
I don't expect to hear this is awesome chant during
a Carrion cross match.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
No, but but again it's it's it's it's far but
it's it's far from spectacularly. It's down it's downright bad.
It really is. The I don't know because listen, when
you take a look and you're inside that ring, you
are dancing with your dance partner. I mean, yes, it's
kind of sad to say because they're wearing tight, tight
(12:17):
shorts and everything like that, and you know, it's just
you just think about that. It's just like, Okay, you're
dancing with a dude, all right, whatever, But they're dancing
and your dance partner. Somebody has to lead, somebody has
to Communication is always a spot Sammy Zain, whether it
be with Jay Usso, whether it be with the Bloodline,
(12:38):
whether it be with Kevin Owens. Sammy Zaine's beautiful. He
twinkle toes around that ring like nobody ever great. I
seemy carry and crossing and I'm almost ready to cry
because there is no twinkle toes. Something's off and it's
can't be Sammy, because I've seen Sammy Inner act with
(13:00):
other wrestlers and he is just beautiful. It's great, it's artwork.
It's not art, it's it's just it's maybe it's not dangerous,
but it's just not good.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
I do think they had a good match at SummerSlam.
I thought it was I thought it was very good.
I mean, I you know, I didn't have any complaints
about it, certainly, but I think the I.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Think the drama and the interaction, the interference with scarlet
with the bar, I like that. But there was a
couple of bumps there where I was like, please get up, Sammy,
please get up, Please don't do the referee, don't do
the x uh. It's just it's there's there's some of
the bumps that I just saw the like, I mean, okay,
that didn't look that didn't look good.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I do have to acknowledge my favorite part of any
carrying cross match has always been the entrance. I think
the entrance is incredible. I think I think, I think
that the whole thing is really good. But but he
also said it is the.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Best part of carrying cross is the entrance. You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
He did say during the uh the Ariel hill Wana
interview too, that they so you said you didn't watch it, correct,
He said that, he said that it's it's really it's
really good. But he said that they did make him
an offer. It's not that they didn't make him an offer.
They did make him an offer. But there were two
(14:22):
things that there were a problem. One is he wanted
to know how they arrived at that number. So I
assume it was a low number because he again, there's
been a just recently, there was a pretty big spike
in his merchandise sales apparently, so they wanted to know
how they arrived at number. At that number, he didn't
say no, He just said, you know, let's continue the conversation.
And the other sticking point was they did not offer
her Scarlet anything. They offered him a new deal. They
(14:44):
did not offer Scarlett a new deal. And he says
that what they told him was that they would sign him,
let's get your deal locked in, and then will we'll
figure out Scarlet, which I can understand him being very
concerned about that for two reasons. Number One, she's a
huge part of the act. You know, it's hard to
imagine him without her. But also I would be worried
(15:07):
about Okay, so you want to sign me, You want
me to hurry up and sign this deal and then
we'll and then we'll deal with Scarlett afterward. I'm worried
that there's not going to be a follow through there. Okay,
I'm going to sign this deal that you, for some reason,
are in such a hurry for me to go ahead
and sign, because you're telling me, if I don't sign
it in twenty four hours, you're rescinding the offer. No
ongoing contract negotiations. Either sign this or you resined, and
(15:30):
then I'm supposed to just trust you that then you're
going to talk to Scarlet or we're going to sit
down and negotiate something for Scarlet as well. That is
that sounded pretty sketchy to me, So I don't blame
him for saying no, agreed.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yeah, I agree with that, because listen, what does my
deal have to do with Scarlett? Scarlett has her own deal.
How about we get Scarlett on board first, Yeah, and
then talk to me. I think, honestly, it's a way
to go ahead and break this apart, because number one,
Scarlet's not a wrestler. She has not wrestled. She is
a valet.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
I think she hasn't she has.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Unfortunately, I think I.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Thought she had wrestled in the net to my recollection.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
If she had a long time.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, probably been a long time. But I mean, I
know she takes bumps and everything. I thought she had
wrestled at one time. I'm looking it up now.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, she probably has trained before. Yeah, definitely look it up. Yeah,
but she's probably trained before to go ahead and said bumps.
But she's primarily a vala. And I don't think WWE,
especially with them cracking down on salary and everything like that,
I don't think they're gonna go ahead and pay a vala,
which is weird. You're going ahead and bumping up to
(16:43):
ESPN for thirty dollars a month. You're already telling people
to pay for Netflix for raw and you're cutting salary.
Really okay, I mean, I you know, I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, I'm looking on Wikipedia.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
It looks like I.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Get Peacock for the play.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
And and and they're also bumping up because they said
when they signed this deal with ESPN that their first
p l E was going to be wrestle Mania next year.
They're bumping it up to something called Russell Polluta yep
in September yep, y she with.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
I think their money. I think they're greedy as heck.
They got that company's got so much money. Now then
Nikol and Diamond, the artists who are contracted, they.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Don't get healthcare.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
They got to pay their own healthcare everything else. Right,
That's why I think people don't understand that sometimes too,
because they think they're employees, right, They're non employees. They're
independent contract They got to work around from the government basically,
and it's stuck.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
They yeah, they're I mean, obviously there's there's another wrestling
promotion out there. If you don't make it a WWE,
go over the w see what they can do. You
got full creative control. You have another con and debt
that didn't charge. So you go from Tony to Neck
or Nick to Tony. I don't know. I forgot whose
con is open. They're both cons.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Sorry I had to do it.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
God, I can't go over to the aw there. You
know they you know that they're they're thriving as well.
I mean, look how awesome they are. I mean, look, look,
I mean just just think about it. Chris Jericho went
from w w E to a W possibly.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Back to w w E most likely.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I thought that, Come on, now, Tony Rhodes goes ahead
and flicks off w w E when he goes to AW.
Now it's back to w w E. What's going on?
How come you can't keep their talent, talent that they
take from w w E. Well, it's not working. Now,
next thing you know, we're getting Dan Ambrose back, right.
Is that what's gonna happen next?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I hope, so, I hope. So that was something that
Eric and I talked about too on Tough Bumps. By
the way, if you're just joining us, we have Charles
Richardson from the Charles Richardson Show on the line with us,
and and uh oh, and of course the pot what's
the name of the wrestling podcast? Is it the Josh
Zodiac Show? Yes, the Josh Zodiac Podcast, the Josh Zodiac Podcast.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I want to make sure I get it right. When
when when we did? Uh yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:23):
This past Sunday on the newest edition of Tough Bumps,
it was a history of ae W and Eric and
I talked a lot about how the worst thing that
happened to ae W was and Eric and I disagree
on a lot of things, but on this I think
we agreed is that when when Vince ended up having
to permanently leave WWE because with Triple H in charge
(19:46):
of creative because the whole reason that ae W was
so successful in the beginning and to a large extent
still is I mean, doing thirty thousand people in a
stadium in Texas is pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
But the reason they.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Were so successful initially was because they were offering an
alternative to what had become very very stale, a very
stale product under Vince. I was saying to Eric, you know,
for years, I didn't even sit down. I wouldn't even
sit down and sit through an episode of Raw or SmackDown.
I would just go on YouTube and find find out
whatever happened and just watch whatever clips looked interesting to me.
(20:20):
And that was it. So I never fully disengaged from
the product. But so, you know, so AW was filling
that void, and then of course Triple H, who I
wasn't surprised because I was watching NXT because when Triple
H was in charge of NXT, NXC was phenomenal. And uh,
you know, so when Triple h got to take over
full creative on the full roster, on the main roster.
(20:43):
You know, that was all of a sudden AEW. It's
kind of like, don't really need it after all now
that WWE is running on all cylinders again for the
first time in a long time. But that's but I
do think that AEW is a net positive for the business.
I think that the business always thrives when you have
competitive forces within it. The more promotions that are successful,
(21:05):
the better, because a high tide raises all ships interests
in wrestling. You know, it's it's so strong right now.
Even TNA Jenny and I were watching a little bit
of Slammiversary. They were that was their biggest North American
crowd for Slamiversary, almost eight thousand people. I think their
partnership with WWE helps drive that. But I do think
AEW holds an important place in the market, and I
(21:28):
think there I think it's a net positive that they're around.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, it's it's definitely going to be a net positive
for AW no matter what, because it's an alternative and
when you can go ahead and finally get your creative
brains intact and actually bump heads literally sometimes and you
go ahead and get Edge and Christian back together. That's
going to generate some interest, like, hmmm, how does this
(21:54):
Rated R superstar Adam Copeland going to do with Christian
Cage now that they're reunited. Interesting storyline. It drove me
interest in ae W because I want to see what
these two are gonna go at. Right, And that was
the first time I heard of Spike apparently with that
(22:14):
bat just oh gruesome. Yeah, anyway, I don't like that.
I'm like, I'm like, you know what, Let's see what happens.
Let's see where they go from here, because they're taking
a definite tag team, a formidable tag team, hall of
Fame tag team, and they're bringing it to their forefront.
(22:36):
Now let's see how they do.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah, yeah, I think, Uh so, we don't. We don't
watch much a w uh. Basically, if there's a you know,
if they have a big event or something, there's a
website Toki video dot Com that posts, uh the individual
matches from their pay per views, you know, usually a
week or two after they happened.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
But but yeah, I think I think, you know, are
they not?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Are they not? Are they not stream on Max? They're
they're paid per views? I know they're streaming like dynamite
in Oh yeah, Max Max.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, we have Max Max.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
We've we've actually watched one of the shows on Max.
We've never watched any of their p L E s
on Max.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
But I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, with all the streaming services, it gets confusing. It's
hard to keep up with it all.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I'm ready to dump some. But but part of part
of why.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It's amazing Max, it's it's it's amazing. Mat the chord. Yeah,
cut the cord, everybody, cut the streaming. You're spending more
now on streaming than you did. I'm not.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
I'm actually not spending more on streaming than I was
paying the cable because it was ridiculously expensive.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
A lot of people are, a lot of people are
though cable.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Cable is far from dead, that's for sure. Yeah, I Uh.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Part of why we were having that conversation on Tough
Bumps was Eric is. Eric is much more negative on
ae W than I am. Like I said, I think,
I think Uh, I think Cody Rhads his return to
w WE UH would not have been nearly as important
and as big a deal had it not been for
(24:15):
ae W, even CM Punk. You know, I mean, it
still would have been a big deal him returning to WWE,
his surprise appearance at Survivor Series UH when he returned.
But again, had it had it not been for his UH,
had it not been for ae W getting him back
into the game first, I don't think it would have
meant as much. You know, I think ae W. I
(24:37):
think a W has directly benefited WWE in some ways.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
I really do.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I agree, and then I disagree because Cody Rhoades developed
himself in the Indies before AW even took place.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
That was Eric sent.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
That the American Nightmare persona theme song and everything was
before a W. So he actually went ahead and created
himself before then he was able to make a stage
on AW. So I agreed to that point. I agreed
to that point that Cody went ahead and turned some
heads like, Wow, this guy can actually perform. You don't
(25:15):
have to put him in a goofy gold out and
called Stardust. That's great. See them punk on the other hand,
see him punk. On the other hand, he had to
try another promotion because of his experience with w W E,
his negative experience with w W and at the time
he went to AW vincents Stone charge anyway, So why
(25:36):
would he go back to a toxic relationship with that,
right And of course, if you haven't seen Unreal, we
watched you to know that. Yeah, it's it's that. That's
freaking great, it really is. But that right there not
even unreal, just just a hole behind the scenes of
how CM punk got back. It was the last minute deal.
(25:58):
This thing wasn't like etchton Stone. Before Survivor series hit,
nobody knew except three people, and.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
One of them was Aja.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So he did he and he was hidden behind everything.
He got into Gorilla Formation and like, wow, Sam Punk
is here. Yep, yeah, it's just he literally signed that
contract like ten minutes before.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
So there was a coming to Jesus moment with Triple
H saying, listen, we know we messed up. We know
this hap happened. We know that happened. This is how
it is now. We know there's a lot of wrongs
that have been righted and and this is this is
what we can offer you. And I think Sampunk came back,
but I think he had to try another promotion to
(26:42):
see what exactly what it's like outside of w WE.
Before he came back.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Right right.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I also have a theory you know that you know
that show that cmpunk showed up at, this was when
he was on the outs with AW. He was still
under contract, but he out with his with his injury.
Poor guy, He's had a lot of injuries. But so
he was he was away from the promotion and and
of course it was an ongoing story that he was
at odds with some of the people there and like
(27:12):
Jack Perry, and his relationship with Tony Cohn was pretty strained.
And then there was that WWE show that he showed
up at just to say hi to some people backstage,
and ye and and Vince got went and Vince got
wind of it and kicked him out. And and by
the way, Vin Vince I think was probably right to
do that because Vince does not want to be sued
for contract hampering, you know, because if he's aware of
(27:34):
the situation, he knows, assuming he was aware, he knew
that cm punk was still under contract with AEW but
having problems. So it's not necessarily a great look that,
you know, while still under contract with AW, cmpunk has
just showing up at a show.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
But that night, apparently.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Before before Vince gave word that, No, you got to
get him out of here. We can't have him in
the building. Kick him out. He did have a brief
interaction with Triple A. I just wonder how that interaction
went because I have this I have a theory. It's
just a theory. I you know, can't base it on anything,
(28:09):
But is it possible that part of that introduction Apparently
it was very very brief, just kind of saying hello
to each other. But I wonder if Punk said something like, uh,
you know, to Triple H, hey, you know, someday, when
I'm not under contract somewhere else, I might like to
come back here, you know, just kind of throwing that
out there in Triple H may have said something like, hey,
(28:30):
you know, if you weren't under contract, we'd love to
have you back. Who knows what the future, you know,
just something, just a brief interaction like that, and they'll
know and if that conversation did take place, they'll never
admit it. But I just know, but I can't help.
But wonder if it did.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You know, I have my own theory and it's it's
it's definitely not Rustling related. So my theory is damn
Punk works up to triple h and it's like, hey,
how are you and Stephanie doing? Yeah, yeah, we're doing great.
I mean you're doing great. You won't get together and have.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
A foursome, really that's your theory?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
And yeah, so well, Charles, I mean you're definitely thinking
outside the box, because I can honestly tell you with
with all the sincerity, that never occurred to me.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yeah. So, uh, what do you watch any a W
now or do you only watch.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
W W E? It's it's mainly w W E. But
you know, I kind of keep tabs on stuff with
a W like I you know, I wouldn't have known
about edging Christian. I knew they were feuding with with
with each other. I think, yeah there was one time
Christian hug Edge and told them you know, oh yeah yeah,
and that's okay, wow, yeah. But you know, I I
(30:00):
kind of keep tabs, like, you know, apparently they got
something going now, which okay, maybe I might tune in
to see what's going on if they're advertised and see
what's doing, but I'm primarily WW.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, I'll watch any Will Osprey match and he of course,
you know an AEW and you know a big fan
of MJF. Haven't kept up, haven't kept up with what
they've been doing. But boy, there's so much. There's just
so much content now, I mean, and WWE is pumping
out more content than ever.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Is MJF like part of the Hurt syndicate now with
lash Lee and the MVP.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
From what I saw online, he was, but now he's out.
They kicked him out or something, so I don't know,
I haven't, but that's you know, it's hard though. See,
that's the other thing with AEW. And this is something
where I think Tony Kahn probably has something in common
with Vince McMahon that wanting to have full control over
creative to the point where you know nothing's being.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Delegated or if it is being well.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
Obviously in WW, Evans was delegating because he had a
full writing team, but then you know he'd end up
tearing up the script and rewriting it himself anyway, And
I think that you know, what AEW needs, what Tony
Kahan needs is somebody or a team of people who
can do what Triple H has done, recommit to long
term logical storytelling where you can get really invested in
these characters, because that's the most important thing. That's what
(31:21):
makes w WE, in my opinion, so successful. Now I've
argued to Eric that to me, wrestling is better than
it's ever been because there's more, there's more of a
focus on long term storytelling. There's surprises, but everything is logical,
but also character development. I can't remember ever, and I've
been watching since I was a kid, I can't remember
ever a time when there was as much character development
(31:44):
as we see now and a willingness to make these
characters complex and you know they've got levels to them.
That's why now you'll see babyfaces fighting with other babyfaces
that used to be never a thing, but now you
know you can have that, or heels fighting with other
heels because the audience has been conditioned to accept these
are complex characters and not everything is black and white,
(32:05):
and people who are you know, good guys can actually
fight with other good guys, and bad guys can actually
fight with other bad guys because you know sometimes in
real life that happens, right, So I think ae w
if Tony Kahn would just allow somebody who really has
a good creative mind, who can do what Triple H
has done, come into aew and recommit to long term storytelling.
(32:28):
I think they'd be a lot more successful. And they're
already pretty successful, let's be honest, but I think they'd
be a lot more successful.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, they still have a long way to go. They're
still in the baby, the d infant stages, maybe even
the Toddless stages, but definitely, definitely. I do have a
couple of questions because I know we're running out of
time here, so I want to I have a couple
of questions. Number one, and please assume that I have
not heard this on Tough Bumps. Okay, but tell me
(32:55):
what was your reaction to Hogan's death?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So we tried on Tough Bumps, we tried to present
kind of a measured, fair assessment. I mean, I can
tell you my personal reaction. When I saw the news
alert on my phone. I was kind of numb. It
was like wow, you know because, on one hand, a
huge part of my childhood and obviously Hogan a huge
part of professional wrestling, something that I'm passionate about. So
(33:23):
it was like, wow, it's kind of stunning, but it's
also hard to get past because I don't think he
ever effectively dealt with it. You know, his racist comments
that were recorded during that encounter with Bubba the love
Sponges wife, which is still even weird to say, but
you know, the just objectively extraordinarily racist, shockingly racist things
(33:48):
that he said during that conversation that was recorded, which yeah,
he did the whole apology tour and everything, but he
never really dealt with the central His comments were very
specific and he never dealt with specifically what he was
wrestling with no pun intended when expressing himself during that conversation.
(34:09):
He never dealt with that specifically, at least not publicly,
and a lot of people felt like his apologies were
half hearted and insufficient, and he never fully recovered from that, obviously.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
So we tried to so we tried to be very
fair about it.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
And to be honest with you, he was apparently in
his private life a very manipulative person. Because Brooke Hogan,
his daughter, called in on Bubba and they haven't spoken
in years because of the fallout between Hogan and Bubba. Yeah,
and Brooke even said that, hey, my dad told me
(34:48):
about the tape and he knew you didn't have anything
to do with it. Even though Bubba lost his home,
he got fired everything that laid down. Hogan never came
to his defense, even though he admitted to Brook that, yeah,
I know, Bubba had nothing to do with it, right,
So just on that alone, I think he was not
(35:11):
a good human being. Let's put it that way. Now.
Is that Is that justified to say, like, well, thank
god he's dead. No, of course not. I mean I
think the way he there's actually a criminal investigation going
on the that he may have been murdered.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Jenny and I were talking about that earlier.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Not murdered, there may have been medical malpractice, medical malpractice.
Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, yeah, question during a surgery.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
He had a surgery apparently recently, and there's question as
to whether or not his frontic nerve was damaged or
severed and restitched or something. And he also had a
feb so I guess the combo wasn't too good and
they think that might have actually been what caused his death,
in which case it would be a medical practice.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Okay, I know that there was a police investigation going on.
I think it's still going on.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
Yeah, yeah, it's still going on. It's still going on. Yeah, Yeah,
could be wrongful death, who knows.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Another question Matt, how do you feel of Sina's so
called heel turn, oh versus face turn? It was that
a flop? Or is that you think was successful?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
I so, I'm I'm I know, I'm very much in
the minority when I say this. I loved, first of all,
the heel turn itself was amazing, and I think most
people would agree on that. The actual heel turn itself
was fantastic. It was so so, so well done. The
subsequent him as a heel, the heel version of John Cena. Again,
(36:45):
I know, I'm in the minority. I was really enjoying it.
I understand why people didn't like that he I think
people a lot of people wanted him to be more
overtly evil and whatnot, where he actually underplayed it. But
I liked it. I thought it was cool. I thought
it was very intriguing. I really enjoyed it, and I
thought the face turned back seemed a little rushed.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
What were you gonna.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
Say wrestling thing? Oh? Yeah, that was so funny. Yeah,
when he's like, I'm going to ruin wrestling.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I loved that.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I loved that too.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I thought it was cool. I really enjoyed heel John Cena.
What did you think.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed his promos, but
it started to get a little repetitive, like he didn't
have anything new coming out. It's just kept saying the
same thing over and over again.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
It's just that is true.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
It kind of got repetitive. So I think when Cody
finally because you're right, it did feel rushed a little bit,
but you saw bits and pieces of good scene it
coming out the past few weeks before that, and I
think I think they were trying to lead up to it,
but obviously they wanted to take the belt off him
and put on Cody. So, uh, mister Lesnar can go
(37:56):
ahead and a big introduction.
Speaker 4 (37:58):
Oh yeah, yeah, what do you think about that one
coming back?
Speaker 3 (38:04):
What do you think about Lesner coming back?
Speaker 2 (38:07):
I love it? You love it? I know, I know.
It was basically it was basically John's wish to go
ahead and wrestle Leslo. That's why he's back. It's it
has nothing to do with well, he's gonna draw big
money and no, no, he'll he'll draw big money. But
that was a request from Sina. Sina wants to get
all of his his adversaries. Yes, it was reported Sina
(38:30):
requested Lesna. Yeah, so he wants to fight Leslo one more. Yeah.
So this retirement tour is basically to get all If
you ever seen Rocky five, where it's like, listen, I
gotta get the beast out of me. I I can't
hold on. He's trying to get the beast out of
literally in this case, he's trying to get the beast.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yeah, but yeah, he's going to take care of everybody
that he needs one more time.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, no that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Which I don't agree. I don't. I don't agree with
Logan Paul. Why would he be on that list? I
don't understand that that storyline one one bit.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, Charles, we are approaching the top of the hour,
so we got to begin to wrap up. The time
goes so quickly. But we should definitely do this more often,
my friend, because I always enjoy having you on and
you know, and anytime you want me to be on
your show, I'd love to do that as well. But
I do want to make sure, so where should people
go to find not only your show but also the
(39:25):
show that you do with Josh Zodiac. I want to
make sure everyone knows where to go to find your content.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
So my show search the Charles Richardson Show on Facebook
like my page. All my shows go live on that
on that page from eight to ten pm Monday Wednesday.
Hopefully both and any interaction or possible topics I may
be talking about will be listed there as well. I
(39:53):
used as my reference set Okay YouTube same thing search
search the Charles Richardson Show. I have a channel with
so many subscribers, kidding, but so many subscribers that you
can go ahead and do. It's free for now, but
after that it's gonna be twenty nine ninety five. I'm
watching my own app with competing against the ESPN the
(40:15):
Josh Zodiac podcast. Same thing, Josh Zodiac podcast on all
social media. He is available on podcast on the podcast
on iHeartRadio, Apple podcasts, anywhere podcasts are done. You can
search that right there and boom it pops up.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Fantastic, fantastic, Well, Charles, thank you so much, my friend.
Like I said, we must do this more often, and
I really appreciate you. Appreciate you joining us today, and
we'll talk again soon, I'm sure,
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