October 12, 2025 • 42 mins
Episode 305: In this inspiring episode, host Steve Cohen sits down with Eric Chase, Nationally Registered Paramedic, educator, conference speaker, and founder of EMSIMPROV LLC and the EMSIMPROV Podcast. Eric is known nationwide for blending improvisation, education, and empathy to transform how EMS providers communicate and lead.
Eric’s storytelling ability shines as he shares personal moments from his 25-year career, including a deeply moving account of a serious health crisis that changed how he views patient care, teamwork, and vulnerability. His openness reminds us that even those who save lives face their own moments of uncertainty, and how resilience grows from those challenges.
Eric’s blend of humor, honesty, and heart makes this episode one of the most authentic conversations yet on Medic2Medic. Whether you’re a new EMT, seasoned medic, or EMS educator, you’ll walk away with a new appreciation for the connection between creativity, courage, and care.
Medic2Medic is back, bringing authentic voices, untold stories, and the human side of Emergency Medical Services and beyond.
Eric’s storytelling ability shines as he shares personal moments from his 25-year career, including a deeply moving account of a serious health crisis that changed how he views patient care, teamwork, and vulnerability. His openness reminds us that even those who save lives face their own moments of uncertainty, and how resilience grows from those challenges.
Eric’s blend of humor, honesty, and heart makes this episode one of the most authentic conversations yet on Medic2Medic. Whether you’re a new EMT, seasoned medic, or EMS educator, you’ll walk away with a new appreciation for the connection between creativity, courage, and care.
Medic2Medic is back, bringing authentic voices, untold stories, and the human side of Emergency Medical Services and beyond.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A cruise or a dream getaway across the globe. Let
Magical Destinations by Steve turn your travel jeams into lasting memories.
You can reach out to Magical Destinations by Steve at
s Cohen at created Travel Collection dot com. Now let's
get started and welcome to Magdematic Podcasting.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Getting attention all listeners on this frequency stand by for.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
An important announcement.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to Medic to Medic podcast, the weekly podcast for
EMS providers, EMS leaders, EMS, medical directors and others involved
in or those who have an interest in emergency medical services.
Ladies and gentlemen, here's your host, Steve.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Cohen, coming from the Fern Down Magnematic Podcast Studios. It's
another episode of Medical Medic Podcast. Hi, I'm your host,
Steve Cohen. You can reach me at Medical Medical Podcasts
at gmail dot com. You can enjoy this podcast on
numerous platforms including Apple, Spotify, podbeing you're also your favorite
(01:12):
favorite platforms. Today, I am so happy to bring back
one of my favorite guests, and that is Eric Chase.
Eric is a nationally registered and state licensed paramedic who's
taking EMS education and leadership into a unique direction, blending
improv into the EMS World Simulation Compassion to create a safer,
(01:37):
more collaborative environments and healthcare. He's also a really good friend.
He's also the founder of emsm PROVLLC and the host
of an EMS of the EMS Improv podcasts. He's also
a critical care paramedic educator, a well known conference speaker,
and it's so much fun when he goes out and speaks.
(02:00):
He has great reviews. He's from everywhere from Oklahoma to Washington.
He's a great leader, and he's, like I say, he's
a great friend. So, Eric, you know how much I
appreciate you coming on to Medical Medic Podcast the Reboot.
So welcome Eric.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Wow, Stephen, thank you very much. I'm excited to not
only get to talk with you when we get to talk,
but for the Medical Medic Reboot and stories or wherever
you take this. I know that the listeners and the
followers are going to appreciate this coming back, and I
know your spirit's going to really be lifted again as
(02:38):
you do this.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
So I'm excited to be a part of this going forward.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Thank you well again. You know it's my pleasure. But
I think we have to do is we've got to
bring back the beginning for you and what led you
into your EMS career, both as a provider and also
a patient.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
All right, so interesting.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
I think the provider story is going to be be
the initial And that's what popped into my head when
you just broached that subject. I was working in law
enforcement and we had one of our words, if you will.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Suffer an event which appeared to have been a fall.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
So there was bleeding and and.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And such, and nine one one was called.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
And so they were they were trying to ascertain. You know,
it's not just oh, we have a fall, right, the
MS is, you know, we do a thorough and thoughtful
inspection of investigation and then try to find out the
ideology of the fall. Why did somebody fall? Was it mechanical,
was it medical? Was it a combination? Was it neurological?
Was it cardiac related? Did somebody knock them down? So
(03:47):
all these things I'm watching this this paramedic in his
in his partner kind of do and they're chatting amongst
each other and you know, kind of talking about these
things that I didn't really know. Obviously it made but
from a medical standpoint, I didn't understand all of it.
And simultaneously, it wasn't you know, it didn't seem like
(04:07):
rocket scientists. They were really doing a head to toe
assessment of this person and then asking as many questions
at the bystanders as they could in the law enforcement
environment as to what may or may not have transpired.
So I remember they got this patient loaded, and this
person's custody level required.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
That did one of the law enforcement individuals ride with them?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
So I got that kind of designation, And as I'm
riding in the back, I remember that I do know
what the cardiac electrodes do. The paramedic, this patient was
not conscious, not responsible, and yet breathing, you know, did
this twelve lead and realized that the patient was having
a cardiac event, a significant cardiac event which he now survises,
(04:51):
led to this fall, which you know, if we just
got tunnel.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Vision, it would have been a fall fall patient only.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Well, this paramedic is doing this thing and recognizing the
ideology of the fall is likely a cardiac event, you know,
a sycopol or what have you. So he's preparing to
call the hospital about thirty minutes away, so it's a
pretty long transport and he's doing.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
What he can.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
They've stopped the bleeding on the head and that kind
of stuff. Well, all of a sudden I hear like probably,
you know, just a generic swear word, and the paramedic
is jumping to do compressions on this patient, and I
was like.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Whoa, And I mean, mind you, he's by himself, so.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
At this point there's not a whole lot that he
can't do and.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Is having to do. And this is in an.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Era twenty five thirty years ago where they didn't talk
about just hands only CPR, but this guy was able
to do and was only able to do hands only CPR,
and I just noticed and he was able to verbialize
and yell to his.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Partner up front for that person to pull over for
a couple minutes.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
And they did some airway stuff and they pushed us
some medications.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
The patient I.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Don't recall was defibrillated or not, but the patient ended
up succumbing to his medical and traumatic injuries, whatever the
case may be how it all mapped out, But that
was the first time that I thought, this is really interesting.
The paramedic did all of these things, and it seemed
(06:30):
like it would be pretty amazing. And albeit this was
the first time I experienced that and the outcome was
an averse outcome with the death of the patient. I
still recognized what this person was doing was impressive and
thought about maybe one day that being something that I
would like to do as well. So that was pretty
(06:51):
interesting first encounter experience with the EMS.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Right, Wow, let me just search on a little bit
about your career before we get back into a little
bit more about you. We've known each other for a
few years now, and I was thinking about this. You
have probably one of the most diverse careers EMS. Careers
at law enforcement, fire being a flight medic and everything else,
especially come from law enforcement going into EMS. Usually it's
(07:17):
the reverse going from law EMS into law enforcement as well.
Looking back, which world do you think shape you the most?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (07:27):
So man, you have to ask questions that are going
to dig right.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Into my spirit. You'll have a way of doing.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
That, Stephen, Law enforcements shaped everything, and it's not because
it was a great place. Now, the brotherhood, the fraternity,
the tactical operations, the firearms, the use of force training,
all the different levels of instructor that I was and
then also a lieutenant on a special Operations Response team.
(07:55):
Those were all incredible experiences and opportunities, and yet for
me there was there lacked the connection to my soul.
And what I mean by that is I was in
a dark place and law enforcement at that time for me,
and not necessarily having reached a profound level of maturity,
because I was a young seventeen when I graduated high school,
(08:18):
when I started college, I got out of college at twenty,
so I'm young.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So then I start I decided.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Let's do the military because I was a baby, and
I made really horrible choices, and being an enlisted person
with a college degree probably wasn't bright. And at twenty
years old, what kind of officer would have been? So
all these things, I didn't make conscious decisions, and that
was one of the issues. And in law enforcement, I
(08:48):
would have gone through that brick wall for you or
for my team, or to get the mission the job done,
absent even a thought is to the why, and then
the appropriateness of it and all these things, you know,
And back then we did things because we could, if
that makes sense, not just because we had to. And
(09:10):
then yes, we came up with different plans and.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
We had contingencies and all those things.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
That law enforcement teaches you, particularly special operations, and yet
once missional objective is determined, you're going to complete it, period.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Point and blank.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
And I didn't ever feel that there was much wavering
once you got on track, and for me, because what
we were allowed to do and I'm not saying we
criminally hurt, abused, assaulted.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
The words that we.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Were responsible for, and yet simultaneously we're still able to
do differently, and we were regarded differently than law enforcement
is today and has been in the last three, five, seven,
ten years, you know, with the public outcries and in
watching and paying attention to what's going on. And for
(10:02):
whatever reason, I started getting a darkening in my heart,
my spirit, and it was not a good place for me.
Not only that on all my deployments, I was not
acting or behaving as.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
A married person should.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Ultimately, during that time, my first wife chose to divorce.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Me and Stephen.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
With all that going on, I created this environment. My
choice is in my poor behavior created this environment. And
I was in a really, really dark place, and coming
from a law enforcement background, and coming from a background
where the objective is going to be met, I started failing.
And I was failing at the objectives and I was failing.
(10:45):
And my objective at that time was life. So I
did work in a vacuum and I did life in
a vacuum, and I isolated both of them. And yet
obviously I know that they were both adversely affecting each other.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yet at the time you don't see it or feel it.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Just things aspire willing all around. So very long story
to get to the answer to my question. The law
enforcement shaped me and I learned a valuable lesson from
the mistakes I was involved in and the behaviors that
(11:24):
I was involved in that pushed me to be more
empathetic and compassionate.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
And it hearkens back to that paramedic.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
That paramedic was doing something that in law enforcement I
wouldn't necessarily have been doing.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
And the convergence of both.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Was that I have to learn, I have to grow,
I have to be transparent, I have to be vulnerable,
and I have to continue to grow to be a
better human. So for me, I became a humanist, a
much more relatable to people, and where I still kept
my arms length the way where my personal relationships, whether
(12:05):
it be with my kids or my current spouse, you know,
to the point where she'd be like, I'm not an emergency.
Stop triaging me, or stop asking me questions that you
know the answer to, kind of doing the law enforcement questioning.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And so I've had to be.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Persistent and consistent in my growth and the adverse experiences
to go along with all the positive relationships that come
from the law enforcement background that I had at a
very young age was what formed me and to be
a much better human being, a better provider as a paramedic,
and a better provider as a father and a spouse.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Eric, thank you very much for sharing that story, and
I know how spiritual you are. That is so important
to you and that really brings it home at least
for me to hear that story, So thank you very much.
I don't know if you want to talk about you
being a patient, but you did have an incident where
(13:05):
you did experience a critical event in your life and
how did that shape you?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And I'm certainly okay talking about that as well, because
that I think the kind of the icing on the
cake for me as far as being a provider a
practitioner in para medicine, and it was something that I
didn't realize I may not be doing and also maybe
I could improve upon my patient care. So, for those
(13:30):
of you that haven't heard this or don't know, at
thirty three years old and I was running marathons at
the time, I had my first cardiac event, which.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Was a heart attack. I ended up getting rotor rooted,
if you will.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
After that event, it was more just didn't need stence,
generally very healthy.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
And at the time, I also didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
I had a family history of cardiac disease because my
mom's hadn't come out yet, but obviously mine did, so
we thought it was an anomaly or something. It was funny,
actually not how funny, but the er doctor thought that
I was probably doing narcotics of some sort, which I
was not, and they proved that in the year analysis.
But all the questions that you get in an age,
(14:11):
you know, people look at you like, why would that
be happening?
Speaker 3 (14:13):
And we know, like math and heroin and cocaine are.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
All these things that we would see today. You know,
and you have a patient it says there thirty thirty three,
thirty four, thirty five, that's having chest pain, and how
many of us, you know, just kind of brush it
aside and say, yeah, it's probably anxiety, or it's probably drugs,
or it's probably something. And I would just ask each
of you that here's this that's in the medical field,
(14:37):
to save your judgments and save your your criticisms until
well save them period, and.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yet go through all.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
The diagnostic steps to determine whether or not that patient
is experiencing a true cardiac event, and in any shape
or form, if.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
They are having pain, they're having pain.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
So when we put them in our shoes or ourselfs
in their shoes, let's just take care of them.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
So anyhow, I.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Had that first targett next even I was thirty three
years old, and that was December ninth of two thousand
and we're in now at twenty twenty five. So five
twenty fifteen, I was flying for an air medical company.
I had gotten to work that evening. I walked up
three stairs, not flights of stairs, three steps into the
(15:30):
base and I was already short of breath. With that
being set out, my nurse and paramedic myself had to
go out to the hangar to do the reconciliation on
narcotics because of the paramedic I was relieving it nineteen
hundred hours and the paramedic or excuse me, the nurse
going said hey, let me just put you on the
monitor for SS and g's, you know, and let's just
(15:54):
figure out what's going on. So I sat on the skids,
He put me on a monitor, said hey, you.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Know, just want you chill here for a few minutes.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I'll come and get you within about ten minutes. It
looked like a scene from a movie. Joe the pilot
and John the paramedic, and Dwayne the flight nurse all
coming with their flight seats on and their helmets underneath
their arm, and they're like, where's your cardiologist? What hospital
are we going to go to? And tell your wife
or girlfriend meet us there in an hour because it's
(16:24):
an hour flight. And I said okay, And you know,
they kind of set some explotives and told me to
get up on the skid and if I wanted to
start my own i v in my own night trow
grip and I said, no, thank you.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Let me actually, you know, get the first class ride, right.
You know, they were trying to just be.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Silly, but I obviously knew something was going on. So
we got there to the hospital around ten o'clock at night,
my wife met us on the by the helipad.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
They were able to walk me up into the er.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I remember going up to the room an hour and
a half later, so Monday night in the Tuesday night
room Wednesday to get cath At this point, I don't
remember all of the findings because it's been so many
years and I tried to work through everything. But Thursday evening,
it's around six o'clock in the evening, and this is
something that is embedded in my memory and or was
(17:16):
jogged out of it when my wife asked me a
question several years later. I asked for help, which I
never do, and I asked my wife to ask the
nurse to get me some anti emetic I was very nauseated,
and you know, Stacy kind of looked at me like, one.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
You don't ask for help, and I said, correct.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
You know, we're having these nonverbal spousal communication and she's
looking at me with her eyes and you know we're
hashing out all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Well, the nurse comes to the door and sisters, you're
telling me her and I said, no, I haven't, I'm nauseated.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
And she apologizes because she was working in pediatrics, and.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
She said yeah, let me get you some medicine. I'll
be back in a minute.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Well, apparently in that timeframe, another nurse was walking past
our pop and saw whatever was going on with my
heart because a code blue was called for me, and
the code blue got called, and I was sitting in
the bed, or excuse me, sitting in the chair beside
the bed, and I remember my wife was what seems
(18:17):
like an eternity away in the corner of the room.
I was resuscitated, and there was one thing prominently aware
to me was that my wife was sitting.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
In the corner of the room. Not a nurse, not a.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Doctor, not a tech, not an MA, no one. And
this is not casting a dispersion on this organization. We
didn't do what we didn't do at times.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
We learned what we learned. She was over there by herself,
and something spoke to me.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
And I don't remember how conscious and cognizant I was
of this, and yet I know she was alone, if
that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
So being alone, and I'll get to that here in
a second.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
How that shaped everything else that I do as a
provide a practitioner.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
But the story gets a little bit deeper.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
So obviously I arrested, and I was obviously resuscitated, and
it was not for a prolonged period of time, despite
you know, the jokes about my being an oxic or
having absent auction. I'm my brain for a while, because
you know, I'm a little bit more stupid and ignorant
the older I get.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But I think that's just because I don't think I
had anything to do with it, right, Okay.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
So there's that that that occurred. Well, several years.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Later, I'm doing uh a training event for my wife's corporation,
and we're doing you know, CPR first aid that kind
of thing, and you know, opening up to just questions
and had anybody ever done CPR, why it's important, you know,
talking about women more often than not are not getting public,
you know, CPR because people don't want to expose the breast,
(19:54):
and you know, they were not doing these things, and
you know, so we're just having a very good conversation
and all of a sudden, my wife just blurted out
in this group, she said, who are you talking to?
And I said, in reference to what? And for her
it was total context for her because we were talking
about cardiac and we were talking about patients. But yet
for me, there was zero context. She said, who are
you talking to?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Or who are you talking to? And I didn't know,
and that she when she realized that, she just blurted
that out. She said, well, cat's out of the bag.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Who were you talking to when you had the cardiac
arrest or just prior to the cardiac.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Arrest in the hospital. And I said, I don't recall.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
I mean, I don't believe that I was talking with anybody.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And you know, I can tell.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
The listeners this and you Stephen, that I went to
some place that was very pure, clean. It wasn't like
spiritually overwhelming, it wasn't like joy, it wasn't radiant, and
yet it was also I can tell you that it
was very peaceful, absolute peace, no fear. And yet I
(20:59):
was by myself to what I thought. I wasn't looking
over myself, I wasn't looking necessarily at the room, because
I don't recall.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
The dynamics of that. Yet. The only thing that I still.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Remember in my mind's eye is my wife so long
in the corner, and so then I'm resusted and I
come back and she said, oh, you were talking with somebody,
And I said, all right, you know fill me in.
So she said that there was some of these indiscernible words,
and yet most specifically she heard me say no less
than five times and maybe around ten. Whenever I was mumbling,
(21:35):
I was also saying rather clearly no, no.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
No, and so whatever that means.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
And because I'm still alive on the earth, I don't
know if I had a conversation to say, you know,
you know, if I was given an opportunity to say,
you know, you're ready, come home, come to eternity, come
to Heaven, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
And apparently if.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
That was in fact what was happening, I was affirming
numerous times no, and with whatever part of my conversation. Now,
I can tell you today that I don't know what
those conversations were, but I could tell you I was
I was broken, I was hurting.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I needed to make amends.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
And I'm not talking like a twelve step amends, because
I wasn't that kind of broken in addiction, but yet
make human amends with the world, with the universe, with
the people around me, for the people that I specifically hurt,
for the people that I was caustic around, for the
people that had to deal with me. Some way, shape
(22:41):
or form in that my energy and my positivity wasn't.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Where it could have should have been. So all of that.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Transpires, and as I'm still becoming a practitioner, deciding whether
or not I can be one with my health, you know,
working in the field still and you know, working on
other opportunities, I.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Made a commitment in any event, a patient's.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Family member is always to be loved, cared for, given compassion.
And I say this in a lot of my presentations.
Action plus empathy is compassion. So first we have to
do and we're if we're empathetic, which means we have
a sense of feeling for what they're grieving, feeling fear, worry, anger, frustration,
(23:26):
whatever they're dealing with, honor that, accept that, and then
give them something the compassionate piece. And a lot of
people will say, clear is kind. You know, to be
clear with somebody is to be kind, right, And so
you're going to tell them, and I tell them right now,
your loved one is not likely to survive this event.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
We're doing everything that they would in the er.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
I'm in consultation or will be in consultation with my
position that I work for, or a physician and we
will come to a better understanding of what's going on.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
And yet I don't believe that your loved.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
One, And then I name it by relationship, daughter, son, husband, father, whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
The case may be.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I don't believe they're going to survive. So I start
that process early and yet to be clear, skill kind,
and yet to give them a sense of hopeful, sense
of peace and knowing that we're doing everything that we
can for them.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
And if they want to watch and observe, barring their.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Inability from a human standpoint, I want them.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
To see that we're doing that as well.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
I also assign one person to that person or those
family members to keep an eye on them, and then
always ask if there's a spiritual advisor, a friend, or
someone that we can call for them or on their
behalf to come be with them while they're starting to
go through this process. And so that's a direct reflection
of seeing my wife alone is to treat patients and
(24:54):
their families better improve that level of care. And then
you mentioned spirituality. I am I have to be. I
try to be. There's a word in Hebrew hen and
I and you maybe may or may not be familiar
with it, and I just actually got it as a tattoo.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
On my arm.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Yet it stands for I am here, I am ready.
And from the very biblical context, you know, so many
adverse things were happening in people's lives, whether it was
Samuel or Moses, and I could list the names of people,
but whether from the burning bush, you know, I was
turning away from things that I shouldn't be turning away from.
(25:37):
And I wasn't being the light in this world that
I felt that I should be. And finally, I've seen enough,
I've witnessed enough, I've experienced enough things that it's time
to say I have to be here. I have to
be present, and whether that's honoring the God that I
pray to or honoring the humanity that deserves it, my
perspective is you don't have to have a faith in
(26:01):
a deity. You have to have a love for your
community and the people. And then I means I am here,
I'm present, I'm willing to give love, I'm willing to
be a light. And then I tied it into a
tree of life in the root system, which leads back
to my heart because it's on my forum, Stephen, and
it's all the things that I've been, have been, and
(26:25):
will do, which is the foundation for the human that
I've become and then becoming.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And it's a consistency and growth. And so I've got.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
Fire for the light, and I've got blues for the
living water. The living water nourishes and the light shines.
And it also in the heat of that fire, it
burns away my iniquities simultaneously or sharpens the sword for
the battles that we have to face. And whether that's
standing up for a patient and their loved ones or
(26:54):
standing up for your loved ones or yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
How we put it all together is all the things
that I've learned and and the number there's three things, Love, grace,
and peace. And I try to try to affect my
patience in those.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Three areas so that I can best care for them medically.
And I have they have to have a sense of
peace or anything that I do or we do, or
the physicians do you know, they're not going to accept.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Well, so anyhow, long.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Long long story, man, And you've only known parts of
that whole thing, and that just came out. But my
goal is is to love people, to give them grace
because I was given grace and to and to create
a sense of peace that that I'm walking the line
that's truly beneficial for them and try to share that
(27:51):
with them.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
So man, wow, thank you for letting me share that. Well.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
As usual, I just asked a couple of questions and Eric,
you just take it to an unbelievable direction what you
just said. Again, I'm speechless, and you know it's tough
for me to be speechless, and I appreciate you sharing
that story. I appreciate you. Just again, I'm just speechless,
(28:19):
and I will just comment on a couple things. One is,
one thing I think we fail in EMS education is
that we do not and any of the curriculums still
talk about or how we educate our new providers on
(28:39):
how to take care of just not the patient, but
the people around and family. We don't teach our EMS
providers how to speak and how to have some empathy
at times. I think that is still a failure in EMS.
I really want to move into a couple of things
before we end our podcast. One is how'd you get
(29:01):
an improv and how does improv? How did that get started?
And where does improv and E mess connect?
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Okay, wow, So what a basic way to kind of
bring that together. And that's one of the things I
love about talking with you is that when any of
time we're talking, we literally can talk about as far
as the east is from the west information and we
both like staying engaged.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
With that being said, it was New Year's.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Twenty sixteen when I saw this improv event. My wife
and I had gone, and I was the kind of
person at the time that was in the last seat
with the closest to the road, closest to the exit,
because you know, paranoia will destroy you, right, you know,
that was my whole background, and you know, and people bad, right,
(29:50):
you know, And I want to be able to take
care of my wife and myself absent whatever saw a
great event, ended up hearing the opportunity to go to
this free clinic, improv clinic, and my life just kind
of laughed at me. She goes, you don't like people,
and you're not funny, and so on and so forth,
(30:10):
and she said I'm going to go. I said, you're
going to participate. She goes, oh, hell no, I'm not
going to participate. I'm going to watch you. And anyhow,
from the very first time I got immersed in the
art of improv and I've taken it now through my studies.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Of psychology and pre med to the degree.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
And may not have time to talk about all that today,
but I started becoming my more authentic self, and the
walls and the facade started coming down, and the tenants,
the basic tenets are improv.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I have your back.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
When you're working with partners, whether it's on stage or whatever.
You acknowledge what somebody's saying, which is yes, and then
you add your part, which is and yes and And
it's not a hard concept. Yet it is seemingly hard
concept for humans that want to say I am in
power and control. So your answer is no or yes,
(31:02):
but a great idea, we're not doing it now, and
we shut each other down. So neuro linguistically and physiologically
we hurt by the words no, and we hurt by
the words butt. So that's as deep a dive as
I can get.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Into that specifically.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Yet what you said, how it resonates ems and we
still in education lack the effect of the social the
interaction skills and capabilities. We're teaching good clinicians, we're at
least putting them in a position to be successful and then
have to get out to the organizations to really learn
(31:37):
the job.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Now.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
And you know, since we're not doing the psychomotor they're
doing the test which are very similar to the enclects
and the nursing type tests. So for nurses that are listening,
paramedics and EMTs are starting to be tested similarly to
the way you are. So yep, we're not far alike.
And you know, let's start and continue to treat each
other well and respect each portion of the health continuum,
(32:02):
which all to often we see and I see still
the adversity of relationships there, and we need to be
lifting each other up and saying thank you for your
part of the process.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Doctor Peter Antevie, and I think you know that guy.
He's a pediatrician.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
He had a tenfold medical error and he came up
with the hand heavy system and over the last several
years he's really really creating a much more robust and
user friendly system.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
And yet it the why, right was.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
We have to feel comfortable before we do things, and
he put us through these paces in our training and
I was actually blessed that he was one of my
instructors for the course because it was yet still relatively
early on, and he was able to make it out
to one of the trainings, and he wanted people to
be very personable and even recognize that some of us
(33:03):
aren't as capable of interacting with certain people, and so
to pick the best person to be the person that's
going to lead your team communicating with the family.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Members, and then the other one kind of being like.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
A doctor house personnel that is your critical thinking and
your treatment oriented provider, and blending.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
The two and messing the two together. So what I
learned in.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
The very low stakes environment of improv is you have
real feelings about whatever is going on.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
So I started incorporating those real.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Feelings in ems situations or high stakes senses where people
are having their own aha moments, to say, you know what,
I understand why you.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Have to yes and why you have to end?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Which is your contribution to whatever's going on. And you're
not shutting people down. You're giving people space to be
themselves their own authentics.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
And Brene Brown will.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Say, you know, if we're willing to make ourselves available,
and a patient's willing to make themselves available to us,
and we're willing to make ourselves available to them. There's
that actual human connectivity, and we're not only treating the
ailment or at least you know, helping them through whatever
(34:23):
medicinally we can. We're also treating them as a human being.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
And there's that kind of whole thing.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
We're better partners because we don't shut people down. We're
better subordinates because we don't shut people down.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
We're better leaders because.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
We're listening robustly and actively, and we're not shutting our
subordinates down. So it's the process and the tenets of yes,
and where it's holistic listening, it's paying attention and moving.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Forward collaboratively in true collaboration.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Not just you know, companies and organizations, whether it be
healthcare or business. And I've worked with sales teams to
trauma team, to law enforcement and every kind of organization
across the spectrum. Ultimately, we want to take care of
one another, or we should is somewhere along the way societally,
we've lost focus of the human perspective and the human interactions.
(35:17):
And my humble opinion, so the EMS improv where we engage,
where we're mindful, we share to tell our stories that
can happen with every human engagement, every patient engagement, and
then a patient could be flat outlined to me, it
isn't saying agree with them and believe them. It's accept
what they're saying is their reality, and add.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Your own part. And so we teach people how to
feel this. We can't didactically tell them. We can give
them a test, and the answer is what do you
do on every question? It's basically yes.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
And and until we feel something, we're not going to
do it.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Until we feel it numerous.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Times, we're not going to do it well right, And
so what is that? That's learning right? And we don't
teach people anymore by feelings. We teach people by didactics,
and we teach people by road memorization. And we've put
on the platform education and we facilitate it by saying,
here it is, go figure it out, read a thousand pages,
(36:14):
and we're going to test you in two weeks. And
I've experienced that in the last two years in the
nursing school. Woefully inadequate education.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I'm not going to say the.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Organization, but education is woefully inadequate my humble opinion, we're
not putting the rubber where it meets the road, and
what does it ultimately come down to time?
Speaker 3 (36:35):
We have new students that are working full time, and
yet we need to get them an education.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
We also need to facilitate an education where they're actively learning,
not just you know, getting information to pass a test
and then moving.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Forward and then forgetting most of it.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Because whether it's a student under high school age or
in high school age or an adult learner, we're failing
them from a status or standpoint of the amount of
time that we give them.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I understand it. So let me see if I if
I can wrap this up about the improv one. Yeah,
you have fun when you do it and everything else,
but let me just give me five seconds to just
give you my thought and see if I'm on the
right track. Improv is great. Improv is not about being funny.
It's about being present, listening, adapting, and building trusts, which
(37:29):
are exactly the same skills that make a great EMS provider,
medical provider, and a leader.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Does that wrap it up? Kind of?
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
And science wise, when you're laughing and you're.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Not in a disassociative state and a left prefunnel cortex
opens up, your a migdal and your hippocampus are open
to the opportunities of an experience and a feeling, and
their laughter is one of the ways that you open
those pathways up. And then once you start learning and
feeling these things that kind of give you an adverse
reaction or a feeling of cringiness or whatever the case
(38:08):
may be, you know that you're now experiencing the human condition.
Because it's not all rainbows and unicorns, as we both know,
and it's also not completely dark and gloomy all the time.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
There has to be some middle ground, and so.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
The mindfulness, the being present, the resiliency, the adaptability, all
the tools that you would see in the resiliency are
also there in improv and once you learn the basic tenets,
you can expand and grow significantly with.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Them and through them. And it does have.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
A beautiful carryover into a medical provider, a law enforcement personnel, therapists,
and I've worked with therapists and the entire spectrum of humanity,
but public safety specifically.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
If we all were able to pick up a little
bit more and work a little bit more.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
On saying yes to an idea, accepting it and moving
forward and then adding your own portion, people are going
to be more engaged they're going to be more inclined
to communicate with one another, and they're going to be
more inclined to hear, listen, and then subsequently share their
own authenticity as well, which is what we're asking our.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Patients to do.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Just so you know, this person here, this host has
taken some improv classes and has been on stage. So
that was a little bit of long ago. It's something
I still want to I'd love to do again. But yeah,
I did some improv. I love improv. If you want
to hear more about Eric, He's got his own podcast.
You want to learn more about EMS improv and how
(39:43):
he can come to your organization and provide some leadership
and some great education and have some fun doing it.
How can they do that?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Eric? All right?
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Stevens So the EMS improv at gmail dot com. So
it's e msimpero v at gmail dot com. I'm on LinkedIn.
Is Eric Chase my number? And I'll give it out
there and I'm going to say this for several reasons.
It's four zero five seven sixty three seven four seven six.
You're going to be greeted by Hello, this is Eric
with the Msmprov. I also work with patients that are
(40:13):
in crisis, and people and professionals that are in crisis.
If you're in crisis, nine eight eight nine one one
are the first two numbers that I always suggest you call.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
If you call me and you're looking.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
For help, I can help facilitate you getting the resources
that you need.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
So that's why I'm giving that there as well.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
For each of you that are interested potentially in a
CORUS workshop. Whatever that looks like, we tailor it specifically
to what you say your needs are, and I've been
at places where at nine and ten o'clock at night
after doing a site survey, we've changed it more specifically
to whatever your organization's specific needs are or what me
or my team have determined and felt based upon our
(40:52):
interactions with the humans that are there.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
So it is very personal, it.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Is very interactive, It is very specific to your organization,
even though there are tenants that are shared across each organization,
and nothing that's proprietary within your organization is disseminated outwardly.
So if you share with us something specific and you
tell us us proprietary, we keep.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
That within your organization and don't put that out there.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
In the next training, Eric as usual, this has been
an absolutely blast for me. I love listening to you.
It's one of those conversations that we could continue on
and we might have to do a part two in
part three somewhere down the line. I appreciate you joining
me on a Medical medic podcast again. Reach out to Eric.
(41:38):
He's a great person and he will help you out
at any way he can. Love you man, Love you brother.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Thank you, Steve,
A cruise or a dream getaway across the globe. Let
Magical Destinations by Steve turn your travel jeams into lasting memories.
You can reach out to Magical Destinations by Steve at
s Cohen at created Travel Collection dot com. Now let's
get started and welcome to Magdematic Podcasting.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Getting attention all listeners on this frequency stand by for.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
An important announcement.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to Medic to Medic podcast, the weekly podcast for
EMS providers, EMS leaders, EMS, medical directors and others involved
in or those who have an interest in emergency medical services.
Ladies and gentlemen, here's your host, Steve.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Cohen, coming from the Fern Down Magnematic Podcast Studios. It's
another episode of Medical Medic Podcast. Hi, I'm your host,
Steve Cohen. You can reach me at Medical Medical Podcasts
at gmail dot com. You can enjoy this podcast on
numerous platforms including Apple, Spotify, podbeing you're also your favorite
(01:12):
favorite platforms. Today, I am so happy to bring back
one of my favorite guests, and that is Eric Chase.
Eric is a nationally registered and state licensed paramedic who's
taking EMS education and leadership into a unique direction, blending
improv into the EMS World Simulation Compassion to create a safer,
(01:37):
more collaborative environments and healthcare. He's also a really good friend.
He's also the founder of emsm PROVLLC and the host
of an EMS of the EMS Improv podcasts. He's also
a critical care paramedic educator, a well known conference speaker,
and it's so much fun when he goes out and speaks.
(02:00):
He has great reviews. He's from everywhere from Oklahoma to Washington.
He's a great leader, and he's, like I say, he's
a great friend. So, Eric, you know how much I
appreciate you coming on to Medical Medic Podcast the Reboot.
So welcome Eric.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Wow, Stephen, thank you very much. I'm excited to not
only get to talk with you when we get to talk,
but for the Medical Medic Reboot and stories or wherever
you take this. I know that the listeners and the
followers are going to appreciate this coming back, and I
know your spirit's going to really be lifted again as
(02:38):
you do this.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
So I'm excited to be a part of this going forward.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Thank you well again. You know it's my pleasure. But
I think we have to do is we've got to
bring back the beginning for you and what led you
into your EMS career, both as a provider and also
a patient.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
All right, so interesting.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
I think the provider story is going to be be
the initial And that's what popped into my head when
you just broached that subject. I was working in law
enforcement and we had one of our words, if you will.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Suffer an event which appeared to have been a fall.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
So there was bleeding and and.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And such, and nine one one was called.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
And so they were they were trying to ascertain. You know,
it's not just oh, we have a fall, right, the
MS is, you know, we do a thorough and thoughtful
inspection of investigation and then try to find out the
ideology of the fall. Why did somebody fall? Was it mechanical,
was it medical? Was it a combination? Was it neurological?
Was it cardiac related? Did somebody knock them down? So
(03:47):
all these things I'm watching this this paramedic in his
in his partner kind of do and they're chatting amongst
each other and you know, kind of talking about these
things that I didn't really know. Obviously it made but
from a medical standpoint, I didn't understand all of it.
And simultaneously, it wasn't you know, it didn't seem like
(04:07):
rocket scientists. They were really doing a head to toe
assessment of this person and then asking as many questions
at the bystanders as they could in the law enforcement
environment as to what may or may not have transpired.
So I remember they got this patient loaded, and this
person's custody level required.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
That did one of the law enforcement individuals ride with them?
Speaker 4 (04:29):
So I got that kind of designation, And as I'm
riding in the back, I remember that I do know
what the cardiac electrodes do. The paramedic, this patient was
not conscious, not responsible, and yet breathing, you know, did
this twelve lead and realized that the patient was having
a cardiac event, a significant cardiac event which he now survises,
(04:51):
led to this fall, which you know, if we just
got tunnel.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Vision, it would have been a fall fall patient only.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Well, this paramedic is doing this thing and recognizing the
ideology of the fall is likely a cardiac event, you know,
a sycopol or what have you. So he's preparing to
call the hospital about thirty minutes away, so it's a
pretty long transport and he's doing.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
What he can.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
They've stopped the bleeding on the head and that kind
of stuff. Well, all of a sudden I hear like probably,
you know, just a generic swear word, and the paramedic
is jumping to do compressions on this patient, and I
was like.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Whoa, And I mean, mind you, he's by himself, so.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
At this point there's not a whole lot that he
can't do and.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
Is having to do. And this is in an.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Era twenty five thirty years ago where they didn't talk
about just hands only CPR, but this guy was able
to do and was only able to do hands only CPR,
and I just noticed and he was able to verbialize
and yell to his.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Partner up front for that person to pull over for
a couple minutes.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
And they did some airway stuff and they pushed us
some medications.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
The patient I.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Don't recall was defibrillated or not, but the patient ended
up succumbing to his medical and traumatic injuries, whatever the
case may be how it all mapped out, But that
was the first time that I thought, this is really interesting.
The paramedic did all of these things, and it seemed
(06:30):
like it would be pretty amazing. And albeit this was
the first time I experienced that and the outcome was
an averse outcome with the death of the patient. I
still recognized what this person was doing was impressive and
thought about maybe one day that being something that I
would like to do as well. So that was pretty
(06:51):
interesting first encounter experience with the EMS.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Right, Wow, let me just search on a little bit
about your career before we get back into a little
bit more about you. We've known each other for a
few years now, and I was thinking about this. You
have probably one of the most diverse careers EMS. Careers
at law enforcement, fire being a flight medic and everything else,
especially come from law enforcement going into EMS. Usually it's
(07:17):
the reverse going from law EMS into law enforcement as well.
Looking back, which world do you think shape you the most?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Wow?
Speaker 4 (07:27):
So man, you have to ask questions that are going
to dig right.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
Into my spirit. You'll have a way of doing.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
That, Stephen, Law enforcements shaped everything, and it's not because
it was a great place. Now, the brotherhood, the fraternity,
the tactical operations, the firearms, the use of force training,
all the different levels of instructor that I was and
then also a lieutenant on a special Operations Response team.
(07:55):
Those were all incredible experiences and opportunities, and yet for
me there was there lacked the connection to my soul.
And what I mean by that is I was in
a dark place and law enforcement at that time for me,
and not necessarily having reached a profound level of maturity,
because I was a young seventeen when I graduated high school,
(08:18):
when I started college, I got out of college at twenty,
so I'm young.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
So then I start I decided.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Let's do the military because I was a baby, and
I made really horrible choices, and being an enlisted person
with a college degree probably wasn't bright. And at twenty
years old, what kind of officer would have been? So
all these things, I didn't make conscious decisions, and that
was one of the issues. And in law enforcement, I
(08:48):
would have gone through that brick wall for you or
for my team, or to get the mission the job done,
absent even a thought is to the why, and then
the appropriateness of it and all these things, you know,
And back then we did things because we could, if
that makes sense, not just because we had to. And
(09:10):
then yes, we came up with different plans and.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
We had contingencies and all those things.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
That law enforcement teaches you, particularly special operations, and yet
once missional objective is determined, you're going to complete it, period.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Point and blank.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
And I didn't ever feel that there was much wavering
once you got on track, and for me, because what
we were allowed to do and I'm not saying we
criminally hurt, abused, assaulted.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
The words that we.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
Were responsible for, and yet simultaneously we're still able to
do differently, and we were regarded differently than law enforcement
is today and has been in the last three, five, seven,
ten years, you know, with the public outcries and in
watching and paying attention to what's going on. And for
(10:02):
whatever reason, I started getting a darkening in my heart,
my spirit, and it was not a good place for me.
Not only that on all my deployments, I was not
acting or behaving as.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
A married person should.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Ultimately, during that time, my first wife chose to divorce.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Me and Stephen.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
With all that going on, I created this environment. My
choice is in my poor behavior created this environment. And
I was in a really, really dark place, and coming
from a law enforcement background, and coming from a background
where the objective is going to be met, I started failing.
And I was failing at the objectives and I was failing.
(10:45):
And my objective at that time was life. So I
did work in a vacuum and I did life in
a vacuum, and I isolated both of them. And yet
obviously I know that they were both adversely affecting each other.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yet at the time you don't see it or feel it.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Just things aspire willing all around. So very long story
to get to the answer to my question. The law
enforcement shaped me and I learned a valuable lesson from
the mistakes I was involved in and the behaviors that
(11:24):
I was involved in that pushed me to be more
empathetic and compassionate.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
And it hearkens back to that paramedic.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
That paramedic was doing something that in law enforcement I
wouldn't necessarily have been doing.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
And the convergence of both.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Was that I have to learn, I have to grow,
I have to be transparent, I have to be vulnerable,
and I have to continue to grow to be a
better human. So for me, I became a humanist, a
much more relatable to people, and where I still kept
my arms length the way where my personal relationships, whether
(12:05):
it be with my kids or my current spouse, you know,
to the point where she'd be like, I'm not an emergency.
Stop triaging me, or stop asking me questions that you
know the answer to, kind of doing the law enforcement questioning.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
And so I've had to be.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Persistent and consistent in my growth and the adverse experiences
to go along with all the positive relationships that come
from the law enforcement background that I had at a
very young age was what formed me and to be
a much better human being, a better provider as a paramedic,
and a better provider as a father and a spouse.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Eric, thank you very much for sharing that story, and
I know how spiritual you are. That is so important
to you and that really brings it home at least
for me to hear that story, So thank you very much.
I don't know if you want to talk about you
being a patient, but you did have an incident where
(13:05):
you did experience a critical event in your life and
how did that shape you?
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And I'm certainly okay talking about that as well, because
that I think the kind of the icing on the
cake for me as far as being a provider a
practitioner in para medicine, and it was something that I
didn't realize I may not be doing and also maybe
I could improve upon my patient care. So, for those
(13:30):
of you that haven't heard this or don't know, at
thirty three years old and I was running marathons at
the time, I had my first cardiac event, which.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Was a heart attack. I ended up getting rotor rooted,
if you will.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
After that event, it was more just didn't need stence,
generally very healthy.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
And at the time, I also didn't know that.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
I had a family history of cardiac disease because my
mom's hadn't come out yet, but obviously mine did, so
we thought it was an anomaly or something. It was funny,
actually not how funny, but the er doctor thought that
I was probably doing narcotics of some sort, which I
was not, and they proved that in the year analysis.
But all the questions that you get in an age,
(14:11):
you know, people look at you like, why would that
be happening?
Speaker 3 (14:13):
And we know, like math and heroin and cocaine are.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
All these things that we would see today. You know,
and you have a patient it says there thirty thirty three,
thirty four, thirty five, that's having chest pain, and how
many of us, you know, just kind of brush it
aside and say, yeah, it's probably anxiety, or it's probably drugs,
or it's probably something. And I would just ask each
of you that here's this that's in the medical field,
(14:37):
to save your judgments and save your your criticisms until
well save them period, and.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yet go through all.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
The diagnostic steps to determine whether or not that patient
is experiencing a true cardiac event, and in any shape
or form, if.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
They are having pain, they're having pain.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
So when we put them in our shoes or ourselfs
in their shoes, let's just take care of them.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
So anyhow, I.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Had that first targett next even I was thirty three
years old, and that was December ninth of two thousand
and we're in now at twenty twenty five. So five
twenty fifteen, I was flying for an air medical company.
I had gotten to work that evening. I walked up
three stairs, not flights of stairs, three steps into the
(15:30):
base and I was already short of breath. With that
being set out, my nurse and paramedic myself had to
go out to the hangar to do the reconciliation on
narcotics because of the paramedic I was relieving it nineteen
hundred hours and the paramedic or excuse me, the nurse
going said hey, let me just put you on the
monitor for SS and g's, you know, and let's just
(15:54):
figure out what's going on. So I sat on the skids,
He put me on a monitor, said hey, you.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Know, just want you chill here for a few minutes.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
I'll come and get you within about ten minutes. It
looked like a scene from a movie. Joe the pilot
and John the paramedic, and Dwayne the flight nurse all
coming with their flight seats on and their helmets underneath
their arm, and they're like, where's your cardiologist? What hospital
are we going to go to? And tell your wife
or girlfriend meet us there in an hour because it's
(16:24):
an hour flight. And I said okay, And you know,
they kind of set some explotives and told me to
get up on the skid and if I wanted to
start my own i v in my own night trow
grip and I said, no, thank you.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Let me actually, you know, get the first class ride, right.
You know, they were trying to just be.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Silly, but I obviously knew something was going on. So
we got there to the hospital around ten o'clock at night,
my wife met us on the by the helipad.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
They were able to walk me up into the er.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
I remember going up to the room an hour and
a half later, so Monday night in the Tuesday night
room Wednesday to get cath At this point, I don't
remember all of the findings because it's been so many
years and I tried to work through everything. But Thursday evening,
it's around six o'clock in the evening, and this is
something that is embedded in my memory and or was
(17:16):
jogged out of it when my wife asked me a
question several years later. I asked for help, which I
never do, and I asked my wife to ask the
nurse to get me some anti emetic I was very nauseated,
and you know, Stacy kind of looked at me like, one.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
You don't ask for help, and I said, correct.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
You know, we're having these nonverbal spousal communication and she's
looking at me with her eyes and you know we're
hashing out all this stuff.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Well, the nurse comes to the door and sisters, you're
telling me her and I said, no, I haven't, I'm nauseated.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
And she apologizes because she was working in pediatrics, and.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
She said yeah, let me get you some medicine. I'll
be back in a minute.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
Well, apparently in that timeframe, another nurse was walking past
our pop and saw whatever was going on with my
heart because a code blue was called for me, and
the code blue got called, and I was sitting in
the bed, or excuse me, sitting in the chair beside
the bed, and I remember my wife was what seems
(18:17):
like an eternity away in the corner of the room.
I was resuscitated, and there was one thing prominently aware
to me was that my wife was sitting.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
In the corner of the room. Not a nurse, not a.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Doctor, not a tech, not an MA, no one. And
this is not casting a dispersion on this organization. We
didn't do what we didn't do at times.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
We learned what we learned. She was over there by herself,
and something spoke to me.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
And I don't remember how conscious and cognizant I was
of this, and yet I know she was alone, if
that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
So being alone, and I'll get to that here in
a second.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
How that shaped everything else that I do as a
provide a practitioner.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
But the story gets a little bit deeper.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
So obviously I arrested, and I was obviously resuscitated, and
it was not for a prolonged period of time, despite
you know, the jokes about my being an oxic or
having absent auction. I'm my brain for a while, because
you know, I'm a little bit more stupid and ignorant
the older I get.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
But I think that's just because I don't think I
had anything to do with it, right, Okay.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
So there's that that that occurred. Well, several years.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
Later, I'm doing uh a training event for my wife's corporation,
and we're doing you know, CPR first aid that kind
of thing, and you know, opening up to just questions
and had anybody ever done CPR, why it's important, you know,
talking about women more often than not are not getting public,
you know, CPR because people don't want to expose the breast,
(19:54):
and you know, they were not doing these things, and
you know, so we're just having a very good conversation
and all of a sudden, my wife just blurted out
in this group, she said, who are you talking to?
And I said, in reference to what? And for her
it was total context for her because we were talking
about cardiac and we were talking about patients. But yet
for me, there was zero context. She said, who are
you talking to?
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Or who are you talking to? And I didn't know,
and that she when she realized that, she just blurted
that out. She said, well, cat's out of the bag.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Who were you talking to when you had the cardiac
arrest or just prior to the cardiac.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Arrest in the hospital. And I said, I don't recall.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
I mean, I don't believe that I was talking with anybody.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
And you know, I can tell.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
The listeners this and you Stephen, that I went to
some place that was very pure, clean. It wasn't like
spiritually overwhelming, it wasn't like joy, it wasn't radiant, and
yet it was also I can tell you that it
was very peaceful, absolute peace, no fear. And yet I
(20:59):
was by myself to what I thought. I wasn't looking
over myself, I wasn't looking necessarily at the room, because
I don't recall.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
The dynamics of that. Yet. The only thing that I still.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
Remember in my mind's eye is my wife so long
in the corner, and so then I'm resusted and I
come back and she said, oh, you were talking with somebody,
And I said, all right, you know fill me in.
So she said that there was some of these indiscernible words,
and yet most specifically she heard me say no less
than five times and maybe around ten. Whenever I was mumbling,
(21:35):
I was also saying rather clearly no, no.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
No, and so whatever that means.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
And because I'm still alive on the earth, I don't
know if I had a conversation to say, you know,
you know, if I was given an opportunity to say,
you know, you're ready, come home, come to eternity, come
to Heaven, whatever the case may be.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
And apparently if.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
That was in fact what was happening, I was affirming
numerous times no, and with whatever part of my conversation. Now,
I can tell you today that I don't know what
those conversations were, but I could tell you I was
I was broken, I was hurting.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I needed to make amends.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
And I'm not talking like a twelve step amends, because
I wasn't that kind of broken in addiction, but yet
make human amends with the world, with the universe, with
the people around me, for the people that I specifically hurt,
for the people that I was caustic around, for the
people that had to deal with me. Some way, shape
(22:41):
or form in that my energy and my positivity wasn't.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
Where it could have should have been. So all of that.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Transpires, and as I'm still becoming a practitioner, deciding whether
or not I can be one with my health, you know,
working in the field still and you know, working on
other opportunities, I.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Made a commitment in any event, a patient's.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Family member is always to be loved, cared for, given compassion.
And I say this in a lot of my presentations.
Action plus empathy is compassion. So first we have to
do and we're if we're empathetic, which means we have
a sense of feeling for what they're grieving, feeling fear, worry, anger, frustration,
(23:26):
whatever they're dealing with, honor that, accept that, and then
give them something the compassionate piece. And a lot of
people will say, clear is kind. You know, to be
clear with somebody is to be kind, right, And so
you're going to tell them, and I tell them right now,
your loved one is not likely to survive this event.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
We're doing everything that they would in the er.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
I'm in consultation or will be in consultation with my
position that I work for, or a physician and we
will come to a better understanding of what's going on.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
And yet I don't believe that your loved.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
One, And then I name it by relationship, daughter, son, husband, father, whatever.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
The case may be.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
I don't believe they're going to survive. So I start
that process early and yet to be clear, skill kind,
and yet to give them a sense of hopeful, sense
of peace and knowing that we're doing everything that we
can for them.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
And if they want to watch and observe, barring their.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Inability from a human standpoint, I want them.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
To see that we're doing that as well.
Speaker 4 (24:30):
I also assign one person to that person or those
family members to keep an eye on them, and then
always ask if there's a spiritual advisor, a friend, or
someone that we can call for them or on their
behalf to come be with them while they're starting to
go through this process. And so that's a direct reflection
of seeing my wife alone is to treat patients and
(24:54):
their families better improve that level of care. And then
you mentioned spirituality. I am I have to be. I
try to be. There's a word in Hebrew hen and
I and you maybe may or may not be familiar
with it, and I just actually got it as a tattoo.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
On my arm.
Speaker 4 (25:15):
Yet it stands for I am here, I am ready.
And from the very biblical context, you know, so many
adverse things were happening in people's lives, whether it was
Samuel or Moses, and I could list the names of people,
but whether from the burning bush, you know, I was
turning away from things that I shouldn't be turning away from.
(25:37):
And I wasn't being the light in this world that
I felt that I should be. And finally, I've seen enough,
I've witnessed enough, I've experienced enough things that it's time
to say I have to be here. I have to
be present, and whether that's honoring the God that I
pray to or honoring the humanity that deserves it, my
perspective is you don't have to have a faith in
(26:01):
a deity. You have to have a love for your
community and the people. And then I means I am here,
I'm present, I'm willing to give love, I'm willing to
be a light. And then I tied it into a
tree of life in the root system, which leads back
to my heart because it's on my forum, Stephen, and
it's all the things that I've been, have been, and
(26:25):
will do, which is the foundation for the human that
I've become and then becoming.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
And it's a consistency and growth. And so I've got.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
Fire for the light, and I've got blues for the
living water. The living water nourishes and the light shines.
And it also in the heat of that fire, it
burns away my iniquities simultaneously or sharpens the sword for
the battles that we have to face. And whether that's
standing up for a patient and their loved ones or
(26:54):
standing up for your loved ones or yourself.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
How we put it all together is all the things
that I've learned and and the number there's three things, Love, grace,
and peace. And I try to try to affect my
patience in those.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Three areas so that I can best care for them medically.
And I have they have to have a sense of
peace or anything that I do or we do, or
the physicians do you know, they're not going to accept.
Speaker 3 (27:26):
Well, so anyhow, long.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Long long story, man, And you've only known parts of
that whole thing, and that just came out. But my
goal is is to love people, to give them grace
because I was given grace and to and to create
a sense of peace that that I'm walking the line
that's truly beneficial for them and try to share that
(27:51):
with them.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
So man, wow, thank you for letting me share that. Well.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
As usual, I just asked a couple of questions and Eric,
you just take it to an unbelievable direction what you
just said. Again, I'm speechless, and you know it's tough
for me to be speechless, and I appreciate you sharing
that story. I appreciate you. Just again, I'm just speechless,
(28:19):
and I will just comment on a couple things. One is,
one thing I think we fail in EMS education is
that we do not and any of the curriculums still
talk about or how we educate our new providers on
(28:39):
how to take care of just not the patient, but
the people around and family. We don't teach our EMS
providers how to speak and how to have some empathy
at times. I think that is still a failure in EMS.
I really want to move into a couple of things
before we end our podcast. One is how'd you get
(29:01):
an improv and how does improv? How did that get started?
And where does improv and E mess connect?
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Okay, wow, So what a basic way to kind of
bring that together. And that's one of the things I
love about talking with you is that when any of
time we're talking, we literally can talk about as far
as the east is from the west information and we
both like staying engaged.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
With that being said, it was New Year's.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
Twenty sixteen when I saw this improv event. My wife
and I had gone, and I was the kind of
person at the time that was in the last seat
with the closest to the road, closest to the exit,
because you know, paranoia will destroy you, right, you know,
that was my whole background, and you know, and people bad, right,
(29:50):
you know, And I want to be able to take
care of my wife and myself absent whatever saw a
great event, ended up hearing the opportunity to go to
this free clinic, improv clinic, and my life just kind
of laughed at me. She goes, you don't like people,
and you're not funny, and so on and so forth,
(30:10):
and she said I'm going to go. I said, you're
going to participate. She goes, oh, hell no, I'm not
going to participate. I'm going to watch you. And anyhow,
from the very first time I got immersed in the
art of improv and I've taken it now through my studies.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Of psychology and pre med to the degree.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
And may not have time to talk about all that today,
but I started becoming my more authentic self, and the
walls and the facade started coming down, and the tenants,
the basic tenets are improv.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I have your back.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
When you're working with partners, whether it's on stage or whatever.
You acknowledge what somebody's saying, which is yes, and then
you add your part, which is and yes and And
it's not a hard concept. Yet it is seemingly hard
concept for humans that want to say I am in
power and control. So your answer is no or yes,
(31:02):
but a great idea, we're not doing it now, and
we shut each other down. So neuro linguistically and physiologically
we hurt by the words no, and we hurt by
the words butt. So that's as deep a dive as
I can get.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Into that specifically.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Yet what you said, how it resonates ems and we
still in education lack the effect of the social the
interaction skills and capabilities. We're teaching good clinicians, we're at
least putting them in a position to be successful and then
have to get out to the organizations to really learn
(31:37):
the job.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Now.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
And you know, since we're not doing the psychomotor they're
doing the test which are very similar to the enclects
and the nursing type tests. So for nurses that are listening,
paramedics and EMTs are starting to be tested similarly to
the way you are. So yep, we're not far alike.
And you know, let's start and continue to treat each
other well and respect each portion of the health continuum,
(32:02):
which all to often we see and I see still
the adversity of relationships there, and we need to be
lifting each other up and saying thank you for your
part of the process.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Doctor Peter Antevie, and I think you know that guy.
He's a pediatrician.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
He had a tenfold medical error and he came up
with the hand heavy system and over the last several
years he's really really creating a much more robust and
user friendly system.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
And yet it the why, right was.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
We have to feel comfortable before we do things, and
he put us through these paces in our training and
I was actually blessed that he was one of my
instructors for the course because it was yet still relatively
early on, and he was able to make it out
to one of the trainings, and he wanted people to
be very personable and even recognize that some of us
(33:03):
aren't as capable of interacting with certain people, and so
to pick the best person to be the person that's
going to lead your team communicating with the family.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
Members, and then the other one kind of being like.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
A doctor house personnel that is your critical thinking and
your treatment oriented provider, and blending.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
The two and messing the two together. So what I
learned in.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
The very low stakes environment of improv is you have
real feelings about whatever is going on.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
So I started incorporating those real.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Feelings in ems situations or high stakes senses where people
are having their own aha moments, to say, you know what,
I understand why you.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Have to yes and why you have to end?
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Which is your contribution to whatever's going on. And you're
not shutting people down. You're giving people space to be
themselves their own authentics.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
And Brene Brown will.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Say, you know, if we're willing to make ourselves available,
and a patient's willing to make themselves available to us,
and we're willing to make ourselves available to them. There's
that actual human connectivity, and we're not only treating the
ailment or at least you know, helping them through whatever
(34:23):
medicinally we can. We're also treating them as a human being.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
And there's that kind of whole thing.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
We're better partners because we don't shut people down. We're
better subordinates because we don't shut people down.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
We're better leaders because.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
We're listening robustly and actively, and we're not shutting our
subordinates down. So it's the process and the tenets of yes,
and where it's holistic listening, it's paying attention and moving.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Forward collaboratively in true collaboration.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Not just you know, companies and organizations, whether it be
healthcare or business. And I've worked with sales teams to
trauma team, to law enforcement and every kind of organization
across the spectrum. Ultimately, we want to take care of
one another, or we should is somewhere along the way societally,
we've lost focus of the human perspective and the human interactions.
(35:17):
And my humble opinion, so the EMS improv where we engage,
where we're mindful, we share to tell our stories that
can happen with every human engagement, every patient engagement, and
then a patient could be flat outlined to me, it
isn't saying agree with them and believe them. It's accept
what they're saying is their reality, and add.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
Your own part. And so we teach people how to
feel this. We can't didactically tell them. We can give
them a test, and the answer is what do you
do on every question? It's basically yes.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
And and until we feel something, we're not going to
do it.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Until we feel it numerous.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
Times, we're not going to do it well right, And
so what is that? That's learning right? And we don't
teach people anymore by feelings. We teach people by didactics,
and we teach people by road memorization. And we've put
on the platform education and we facilitate it by saying,
here it is, go figure it out, read a thousand pages,
(36:14):
and we're going to test you in two weeks. And
I've experienced that in the last two years in the
nursing school. Woefully inadequate education.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I'm not going to say the.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Organization, but education is woefully inadequate my humble opinion, we're
not putting the rubber where it meets the road, and
what does it ultimately come down to time?
Speaker 3 (36:35):
We have new students that are working full time, and
yet we need to get them an education.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
We also need to facilitate an education where they're actively learning,
not just you know, getting information to pass a test
and then moving.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Forward and then forgetting most of it.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Because whether it's a student under high school age or
in high school age or an adult learner, we're failing
them from a status or standpoint of the amount of
time that we give them.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
I understand it. So let me see if I if
I can wrap this up about the improv one. Yeah,
you have fun when you do it and everything else,
but let me just give me five seconds to just
give you my thought and see if I'm on the
right track. Improv is great. Improv is not about being funny.
It's about being present, listening, adapting, and building trusts, which
(37:29):
are exactly the same skills that make a great EMS provider,
medical provider, and a leader.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Does that wrap it up? Kind of?
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
And science wise, when you're laughing and you're.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
Not in a disassociative state and a left prefunnel cortex
opens up, your a migdal and your hippocampus are open
to the opportunities of an experience and a feeling, and
their laughter is one of the ways that you open
those pathways up. And then once you start learning and
feeling these things that kind of give you an adverse
reaction or a feeling of cringiness or whatever the case
(38:08):
may be, you know that you're now experiencing the human condition.
Because it's not all rainbows and unicorns, as we both know,
and it's also not completely dark and gloomy all the time.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
There has to be some middle ground, and so.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
The mindfulness, the being present, the resiliency, the adaptability, all
the tools that you would see in the resiliency are
also there in improv and once you learn the basic tenets,
you can expand and grow significantly with.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Them and through them. And it does have.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
A beautiful carryover into a medical provider, a law enforcement personnel, therapists,
and I've worked with therapists and the entire spectrum of humanity,
but public safety specifically.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
If we all were able to pick up a little
bit more and work a little bit more.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
On saying yes to an idea, accepting it and moving
forward and then adding your own portion, people are going
to be more engaged they're going to be more inclined
to communicate with one another, and they're going to be
more inclined to hear, listen, and then subsequently share their
own authenticity as well, which is what we're asking our.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Patients to do.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Just so you know, this person here, this host has
taken some improv classes and has been on stage. So
that was a little bit of long ago. It's something
I still want to I'd love to do again. But yeah,
I did some improv. I love improv. If you want
to hear more about Eric, He's got his own podcast.
You want to learn more about EMS improv and how
(39:43):
he can come to your organization and provide some leadership
and some great education and have some fun doing it.
How can they do that?
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Eric? All right?
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Stevens So the EMS improv at gmail dot com. So
it's e msimpero v at gmail dot com. I'm on LinkedIn.
Is Eric Chase my number? And I'll give it out
there and I'm going to say this for several reasons.
It's four zero five seven sixty three seven four seven six.
You're going to be greeted by Hello, this is Eric
with the Msmprov. I also work with patients that are
(40:13):
in crisis, and people and professionals that are in crisis.
If you're in crisis, nine eight eight nine one one
are the first two numbers that I always suggest you call.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
If you call me and you're looking.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
For help, I can help facilitate you getting the resources
that you need.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
So that's why I'm giving that there as well.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
For each of you that are interested potentially in a
CORUS workshop. Whatever that looks like, we tailor it specifically
to what you say your needs are, and I've been
at places where at nine and ten o'clock at night
after doing a site survey, we've changed it more specifically
to whatever your organization's specific needs are or what me
or my team have determined and felt based upon our
(40:52):
interactions with the humans that are there.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
So it is very personal, it.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Is very interactive, It is very specific to your organization,
even though there are tenants that are shared across each organization,
and nothing that's proprietary within your organization is disseminated outwardly.
So if you share with us something specific and you
tell us us proprietary, we keep.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
That within your organization and don't put that out there.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
In the next training, Eric as usual, this has been
an absolutely blast for me. I love listening to you.
It's one of those conversations that we could continue on
and we might have to do a part two in
part three somewhere down the line. I appreciate you joining
me on a Medical medic podcast again. Reach out to Eric.
(41:38):
He's a great person and he will help you out
at any way he can. Love you man, Love you brother.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
Thank you, Steve,
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