Talkline | Jan. 6, 2026 - MetroNews Talkline

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
We're talking taxes this morning, the possibility of more income
tax reductions, plus the latest on Nicholas Maduro and the
charges he is facing in federal courts in New York,
as well as your comments, calls, text and tweets. It's
talk Line from the COVID Church studios. We're underway.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
You are surrounded, radio turned.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Off from the studios of w v RC Media and
the Metro ne Who's Radio and Television network. The Voice
up West Virginia comes the most powerful show in West Virginia.
This It's Metro ne Who's Talk Line with Dave Wilson
and DJ Meadows.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Activated Switch network can from Charleston to morning.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Stand by you, David, DJ, You're on. Metro News Talkline
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Speaker 1 (01:23):
Good morning, Welcome into the program. Metro News talk Line
from the Encovia Insurance Studios. Gang's all here, TJ and Charleston.
Jakelink is behind the controls of wv Metro newstv dot
Com and the Metro News TV app, and Ethancollins is
handling the audio side. We appreciate you being part of
the program on one of our great radio affiliates across

(01:43):
the state of West Virginia, or if you're watching the
Metro News TV app, we appreciate you being part of
the festivities. Coming up Loaded first hour, we'll talk to
Jim Cruz coming up bottom of the hour, longtime.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Oil man here in West Virginia.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
What about the Venezuela and the oil reserves and the
challenges ahead we will discuss. Dave Allen will drop by
for some reason or another from Metro News at midday.
Second hour, we'll also visit with Hancock County Delegate Pat
McGahn and Eric Tarr, the Putnam County Senator, will join
us from the Charleston studios as well Loaded Show.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Al Tony J.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Powers by the way from New York. We'll visit Loaded Show.
Say good morning to TJ. Meadows from the Charleston Studios.
Good morning, sir, Good morning sir.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
How goes it?

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Today?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Goes pretty well? I was curious because you are on
my unofficial financial advisor. How's the market looking this morning?
A couple of days now out from the Maduro strike
there in Venezuela. It was up yesterday when everything closed.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
How's up across the board? Up across the board again today,
SMP up twenty six, DOW up about one hundred and
sixty eight, NASDAC up about one hundred. So again, if
the market is troubled, they're not troubled by this. Obviously
there'll be another reason. So interesting piece, and we can
talk with Jim about this in Bloomberg this morning, about
how the oil industry was actually pushing for Delsi Rodriguez.

(03:10):
They like Rodriguez. They say she's a friend of oil,
the VP rather than anyone else. So that's going to
be interesting to see how the industry continues to advocate
for her. But they like that the VP in Venezuela
is taking over.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
That part of this story and how all of this
is coming together, to me is the most interesting part.
What was it about Machado that the Trump administration did
not have confidence in to throw their support behind them.
Are they confident that they can work out a deal?
Remember Trump? Trump touts himself as a deal maker, right,

(03:46):
he wrote the book The Art of the Deal. What
makes them confident they can.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Work with Desi Rodrigo? Or did I say that right?

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Delce, delce, Rodriguez. All of that is I find fasten
how all of that came together and is coming together
here in real.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Time well and compared to what juxtaposed against what Patricia
Rucker told us yesterday, and if her take is to
be seen as you know, microcosm of what the Venezuelan
people think, she seemed to think they need to go deeper.
You know, we asked her about lieutenants and various people
in the administration. I did not take that to mean

(04:24):
that she was a Rodriguez fan or any of the
other folks that are there. You need to, you know,
clear out the old regime. So, lot of variables going on,
and Donald Trump now taking the podium as we speak
to address the gop SO continues to develop.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Dave, We'll keep an eye on all of that as
it unfolds.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
This morning.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Tany Jay Powers will have an update from New York
as well on yesterday's court proceedings. Governor Morrissey took to
the podium yesterday at the state Capitol, a little more
than a week out from the start of the sixty
day legislative session, and suggested that tax cuts could be
on the table. The session will start a week from Wednesday.
During a news conference, the governor outlined his desire for
further cuts to the personal income tax in the neighborhood

(05:05):
of five to ten percent. He said the general revenue
budget he'll present to lawmakers next week will not reduce
services in order to pay for it. The tax package
will also include provisions to align Westervinini's tax code with
the One Big Beautiful Bill. Steven Allen Adams is the
capitol reporter and columnist for Ogden Newspapers. He was covering
the governor and the news conference yesterday. He'll be covering

(05:26):
the legislature coming up a little more than a week
from now. He joins us on Metro News talk line
from the bowels of the state capitol. Steven, good morning,
Good to talk to you anybuddy.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Hey, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Gentlemen, Were you surprised the governor came out with this
announcement yesterday his desire for an additional personal income tax reduction?

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Not at all?

Speaker 4 (05:46):
Saturday night, around eleven pm, the governor had posted a
tweet or an X on his personal social media account
teasing a tax cut or some sort of tax proposal,
and trying to get people to like and retweet that
and don't forget. In November, you know, there was reporting,

(06:07):
including from myself, that said that there were talks about
a possible special session in December to contemplate the possibility
of taking our tiers of personal income tax rates down
to one flat personal income tax rate. Now, my sources
behind the scenes said that there was really kind of

(06:29):
no support for that by the legislator, legislature and key
legislative officials, and not only that, but it kind of
got lost and obviously the news cycle, particularly what happened
in wa Washington, DC with our two National Guard members,
one of whom, of course died of their injuries from
those gunshot wounds. So it got put on the table,

(06:51):
and I think they it was understood that there was
not a lot of support for that behind the scenes.
So now the governor is coming out with a just
to take another five to ten percent out of our
personal income tax rates, and he sees trying to compete
with particularly neighboring Ohio and Kentucky because Ohio now has

(07:13):
gone to a flat personal income tax rate and their
rate will be lower than our top rate. Kentucky has
a flat personal income tax rate, and they have a
cut that just went into effect, So he wants to
compete and try to keep the state competitive. So he's
proposing between five and ten percent, and he acknowledges that
he's going to have to obviously work with the legislature,

(07:36):
who sure talk a big game about wanting to phase
out in the personal income tax, but maybe don't see
doing it at the ten percent. Maybe they see doing
it at a lower percent, so they'll have to come
to some sort of deal.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Steven, let's talk about the politics of this governor makes
the announcement yesterday ahead of his State of the States,
could have easily, I guess made the announcement a week
from tomorrow. With that said, is there political maneuvering or
calculus here in that if you make the announcement yesterday

(08:10):
full well knowing what you just said, there was no
appetite for the flat tax, and there may not be
enough appetite even for this five or ten percent, you
do it ahead of the open of the session. You
put the onus back on the legislature. How do the
political calculations bear out? Is there any merit to what
I'm suggesting?

Speaker 5 (08:29):
Sure?

Speaker 4 (08:29):
I mean it's a pressure tactic, no doubt. We're going
into an election year. You know, the entire one hundred
member House of Delegates will be up. You got about
half of the Senate that will be up, not counting
to special elections that are also going to be going
on for a couple of the seats over on that side.
So yeah, it's a pressure tactic for sure, because again,

(08:50):
Republicans and some Democrats have been very much on the
record they want to see the personal income tax either
phased out or they want to see pardon me, tax
cuts of some sort of course. In the case of Democrats,
they want those tax cuts obviously benefit more of the
low to middle class. Republicans want sort of all of

(09:11):
the above tax cuts that benefit the entire social strata.
And yeah, pressure is going to be on an electioneer
to do it. But I also kind of think, and
this is speculation on my part, but this is just
observing politics. I get the feeling the governor would probably
be happy sort of with a similar scenario to what

(09:33):
happened in twenty twenty four. Remember, former Governor Jim Justice
wanted a personal income tax cut on top of the
four percent cut that was going to go into effect
from the trigger that is supposed to phase out the
personal income tax over time based on the condition of
our economy. Now, the legislature only gave him two percent

(09:55):
instead of five percent, but he didn't fight it, and
he didn't make a big deal about it. He said,
that's great, and that's what they went with. I have
a feeling something somewhere will happen in this case if
he doesn't get five percent, even if he gets another
two percent, I think he will walk away satisfied with that.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
One observation. One question. I'll pose it to both of you.

Speaker 6 (10:15):
One.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
I guess the observation is a question, have you ever
met a Republican to vote against a tax reduction?

Speaker 2 (10:22):
A tax cut?

Speaker 1 (10:23):
So, even if it's two percent, to your point, Steven,
I could see something like that getting done. I can't imagine.
In fact, I heard Delegate Joe Statler on w aj
R Morgantown today. If it push comes a shove and
there's a tax cut to vote for, he's going to
support it. So is that two percent? Is that five percent?
Is a ten percent? We'll have to see my question,
Steve and Tj'd be interested to hear your take. On

(10:43):
this as well. If the goal, if the ultimate goal
is to eliminate the personal income tax, and we have
a plan in place to do that, could we focus
Could there be more of a focus on growing the
economy through something like repealing the business in inventory tax.
Grow the economy, so these triggers kick in and we
gradually reduced this personal income tax down to nothing.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Could that be a path to.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Get to the same place that I think Governor Morcy
and everybody, all the Republicans want to get to.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Yeah, No, I think possibly. I mean, in the case
of the business invatory tax, that's never going to go
away until the people vote for a constitutional amendment. Of course,
that constitutional amendment. The last time that went up for
a vote, it failed back in what twenty twenty two,
It went down in flames, and then Governor Justice literally

(11:34):
went on a road tour to fight against it. The
counties were concerned because even though former Senate President Craig
Blair was saying that they were going to follow that
up with a method to fund the counties and keep
them whole, since they get all their tax revenue from
the personal, tangible, personal property taxes, they didn't really trust

(11:57):
that they so that went down and flame. So they'll
if that's going to be an effort that the lawmakers
want to do, they will once again have to try
to put it on a ballot, which could be the case.
There's certainly still a lot of support for that, particularly
among the business community, so we will see. I will
tell you that I've talked to a few business leaders

(12:19):
that get a little concerned with further cuts to the
personal income tax faster than what the economy can support it,
because if there is a downturn in revenue, they're concerned
that state officials will then raise certain business taxes to compensate.
So I think and I've also talked with House Finance

(12:39):
Committee Chairman of Vernie Chris back in November when the
special session was being talked about as a possibility, and
he's very much of the mind that sure, we need
to phase out the personal income tax, but we've got
a mechanism to do that. So could there be other
things that the legislature does, say take advantage of cutting

(12:59):
maybe corporate and at income tax rates. That is something
the business community would certainly like to see done. It
is one of the revenue streams that performs very well
so there's room wiggle room to do that, but there's
other mechanisms that could be done to shure up the
economy and help grow the economy. So when you do
further cuts to the personal income tax, you know that

(13:21):
you're not putting potential revenue at risk for state government functions.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, they've I think macroeconomically, I think I think you're
right on anytime you can create an incentive for business
to invest plant and equipment here, which the inventory tax
is obviously a dis incentive. You grow GDP. GDP grows,
you have more people working, you have more revenue coming in.

(13:47):
You hit one of those triggers that Steven is talking
about for the personal income tax, whether that's business and inventory,
whether that's cutting the business tax. You can do that
a couple of different ways, I wonder, and I could
be accused of being jaded here. There are a lot
of options on the table. And let's not forget fellas.

(14:09):
There's still a lot of folks in the legislature, particularly
on the House side, there's still a little sore with
the governor. And if they can find a way to
your point, Dave, Republicans like tax cuts. If they can
find a way to roll a tax cut through. Maybe
it's one of the ones Stephen talked about. Maybe it's
some of the things Larry Packintt talked about with his

(14:29):
package in terms of cutting social Security taxes but basically
measuring up or adding to the big beautiful bill. If
there is a way for some folks in the legislature
to be able to present a win from a tax
perspective to West Virginia, but at the same time deny
the governor the political credit, I'm not above saying that

(14:50):
they'll very much do that. Steven Ambout right or wrong.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
I think that is a real distinct possibility for sure.
I mean, yeah, you're right. There's still some bad blood
between certain members of legislative leadership, particularly on the House side,
but even to some extent on the Senate side. You know,
the Senate President, Randy Smith was not particularly happy with
the sale of the four long term care facilities without
a whole lot of consultation with the legislature. That that

(15:16):
sale could come back to bite the governor politically in
this session. If perhaps the Senate President doesn't want to
go particularly the route that the governor is proposing, So
it's going to require some finesse on the governor's part
to explain why we can do this. Remember just a
year ago he said that four percent and that two

(15:37):
percent cut in our personal income tax rates, we didn't
pay for it, And they had said that had led
to that four hundred million dollars structural deficit, structural hole
in the budget that of course they were able to
balance and come up with the money and come up
with a balanced budget that we're currently in right now.

(15:57):
I think you're in a situation where the governor will
have to now explain, Okay, we can pay for five
percent or even ten percent. I mean, we'll just have
to see what those proposals are and how those are
reflected in the budget, and we won't see that until
we hands it to House Speaker. Hanshawan sentate President Smith

(16:20):
when next Wednesday for the State to state.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
He is Stephen Allen Adams, capitol reporter columnist for Ogden Newspapers.
You can read his work all over the state. Stephen,
we'll see you next week down to state Capital.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Buddy, YEP, looking forward to seeing you guys.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
Seeing you there.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
We will be there for Metro News talk Line coming
up on Wednesday and Thursday next week. First day of
the session is Wednesday, along with the State of the
State address, which you can hear on many of the
same Metro news radio stations. Take a break back at
a moment. This is talk line from the in Cove
Insurance Studios.

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Speaker 3 (18:03):
Metro News talk Line is presented by Encova Insurance and
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Visit incova dot com to learn more.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Jim Cruz is going to join us bottom of the hour,
longtime oil man here in West Virginia, former president of AVOGA,
former board chairman or Go West Virginia. We'll talk to
him about oil and Venezuela coming up at the bottom
of the hour. Just a couple of quick thoughts to
youj To be fair to the governor, all we have
right now is a general concept of what he wants

(18:35):
to do. Devil's always in the detail, so very interested
to see what the actual plan is and how also
that is integrated. And this was mentioned yesterday as well,
aligning West Virginia's tax code with the one big beautiful bill.
How all of that would come together in the proposal
then we can actually evaluate it. Right now, we have

(18:55):
a concept which is intriguing at the same time makes
you scratch your head maybe a little bit. But to
be fair of the governor, it's early in the process.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
And when it is early in the process and you're
ahead of the session and various ideas are floating, and
you have one hundred and thirty four type as that
you have to manage. And he's a type A. There's
that X factor, and you know he'll have his opportunity
to sell it and get it done. I'm glad we're
talking about tax reform, though, because anytime you put more

(19:29):
money into people's pockets, you're going to be better off.
In my humble opinion, I don't think I have to
restate that I like the consumption tax. I hate the
idea of taxing labor. So let's talk about it. Let's
figure out the best way to do it, where everyone
is comfortable. And I think it's a good decession to have,
even outside the triggers, because look, we don't know what

(19:50):
we don't know, we don't know where we're at the
on the lack of curve, so let's figure that out.
Let's continue to talk about it, iter rates and press
and so I think it's a good conversation. Kudos to
the governor for bringing up We'll see where it goes.
I would like to hear.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
More about simplifying that, and that's easier said the done. Obviously,
simplifying the tax code. You've talked before about how we've
not updated the tax brackets since what the Reagan administration.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
It's been a while, hadn't it from the Reagan administration
up untilhen the Justice Administration did it. And every year
that we don't update it, that is a tax increase.
People forget that you need to update your brackets. So
that's another reason to your point. Thank you for reminding
me that we should be talking about this every year
because you're essentially raising taxes when you don't adjust the

(20:35):
brackets to cover inflation, people have less buying power.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
By the way, we've only got about sixty seconds here.
I do this to you all the time. If I
had the article here, I did read an article. It
was from the Wheeling Intelligencer, also from all the newspapers.
Steven Allen Adams, he didn't write it, but one of
his colleagues did.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
Lora Wakem.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
Chapman, the centator from the Northern Panhandle, said to the
newspaper up there, she would like to focus on economic development.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
I think, TJ.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
That's the first really kind of on the record anything
out of the Senate that I've heard for someone in
a quasi position at leadership there on the Senate side
of where the focus may be on that end of
the capitol next week.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Well, it's an election year, and I think you have
to do that based on the last session, and that's
being a good politician, reacting to what people want. You've
got those two factions in the Republican Party in the Senate,
You've got that to Kubo faction, right, and then you've
got the other under Patricia Rutger, Wakem and others. One's
more social issue focused, one's more economic focused. We'll see
what actually happens, but it's an election here, Dave. I'll

(21:37):
leave it at that.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
This is talk Line on Metro News Metro News for
forty years, the voice of West Virginia. It is ten thirty.
Let's get a news update from the Metro News radio network.
Find out what's happening all across the great state of
West Virginia.

Speaker 9 (21:55):
West Virginia Metro News eyeing Jeff Jenkins, the mayor of
the state's capital city, said yes, there's a lot to
be excited about. Charleston Marrimy Shereloko, when delivered her State
of the City addressed last night, she talked about ongoing
discussions with the whole property group that owns the Town
Center Mall about turning them all over to the city.
She says that won't be easy.

Speaker 10 (22:14):
But this type of change, let me not deceive you,
is extremely hard. Work requires enormous patients, good planning, strong partnerships.

Speaker 9 (22:25):
Read more at wv Metro news dot com. Kanauk County
School Superintendent Paula Potter says the county's new policy banning
and restricting celf phone use at school has worked.

Speaker 11 (22:34):
We've been super proud of our students for making such
a big change, especially our senior students that have had
cell phones for a big part of their life at school,
so they have really embraced the rule and are following in.

Speaker 9 (22:48):
Potter telling the school board Monday, there have been fourteen
hundred discipline infractions in the county's ten high schools and
six hundred and fifty infractions in middle schools. She says,
just like with any other new policy, some students are
puts the limit. Montagaye County shares deputy's trying to find
out more about a relationship between a Maryland man and
the woman they believe that he fatally stabbed. The injured
woman was discovered at the Morgantown Motel late Sunday night.

(23:10):
Sheeff Tov Forbes says she was able to identify her
attacker as forty nine year old Carol Crosscoe of Garrett County, Maryland.
Before she died. Crossco is now in custody. You're listening
to Metro News for forty years, the voice of West Virginia.

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Speaker 13 (23:52):
There's a lot of noise out there about the market
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Speaker 14 (23:56):
Important to you in your future.

Speaker 13 (23:58):
I'm Shelly Hustle, Huntington Banks Local Wealth Team right here
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Speaker 9 (24:22):
Huntington firefighters say one person was injured in a house
fire that broke out this morning at around five point thirty.
Flames and smoke were showing for the house, located a
long seventeenth Street when firefighters arrived on the scene. We
don't know yet the extent of those injuries. The new
Cherry River Elementary School is open in rich Wood. A
ribbon cutting ceremony held Monday in front of the school.
Cherry River is one side of the complex and the

(24:44):
new Richwood Middle High School is the other side. The
upper grades opened last fall. From the Metro News anchor desk,
I'm Jeff Jenkins.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Three or four Talk three oh four. I was scrolling
through the Twitter machine there during the break and Kelly
Allen of the Westernia Center on Budget Policy, who will
join David Amandel on Metro News Midday Later day, DJ
tweeted Dave Wilson asking have you ever seen a Republican
vote against a tax cut? And then there's the picture
of Roger Hanshaw looking at the board with the voted

(25:35):
on Justice's tax cut and it was zero to one hundred. Okay,
okay that one time, there was one time.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
That was pretty good to che Kelly Allen, Well, yes,
well done.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
She is going to be joining David Amanda coming up
Metro News Midday get her perspective on the governor's proposal
from yesterday. Hoping to connect with Jim Cruz. I believe
he's supposed to be calling us any moment now, get
his take on Venezuela and oil Gym's been a long
time oil man here in West Virginia. We'll connect up
with him three or four talk three oh four, or

(26:11):
you can give us a call eight hundred and seven
six five eight two five five. Let's get a couple
of text in three or four talk three oh four.
Did in West Virginia phase out the income tax on
Socia security so that it is not taxed in twenty
twenty six?

Speaker 2 (26:23):
I believe yes we did.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Uh, there is no income tax on social security in
West Virginia.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, I misspoke there. I meant no tax on tips
in overtime. Oh okay, uh, Dave and TJ.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
The legislature really needs lower taxes on businesses so our
counties can compete with border states. Too many businesses have
moved right across the river in Ohio, says the Texter.
That's constantly a challenge anytime we have businesses trying to
compete when you're in what do we have thirty three
counties that are border counties and you have to compete

(26:56):
with Pennsylvania and Maryland and Kentucky, Virginia and oh that's
our five states, right, Yeah. Yeah, that's always going to
be a challenge. And that's a challenge in every aspect.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
TJ. Well, I remember at a point in my career
I was building compressed natural gas stations in West Virginia,
and I was competing for capital with other guys in
my company who were developing other areas. I had West Virginia, Virginia,
rest of the South, some guys had the Midwest, and
oftentimes it came down to, well, we're going to have

(27:28):
to pay business inventory tax on a bunch of compressors
in West Virginia. We're not going to pay him in Ohio.
Sorry TJ. On this one, We're going to go to Ohio.
It's real. It happens. We lose investment because of that.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Jim Cruz, longtime oil man here in West Virginia, former
w VOGAR president, joining us so much news talk line.
President Trump made no bones about it. Oil was a
factor and the decision to pose Nicholas Maduro. Markets responded,
they were up yesterday, they were up this morning. So
what now, Well, let's go to Jim Cruz see if
we can get some perspective. Jim, good morning, thanks for
joining us.

Speaker 15 (28:00):
Good morning, TJ. Good to be here.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Thank you glad you could join us. So Venezuela has
the huge oil reserves. Oil was a factor in the
president's decision to go in and depose Nicholas Maduro. So
now what, Jim, what are the challenges ahead for US
companies to get back into Venezuela.

Speaker 15 (28:20):
Well, of course, the infrastructure is in poor shape according
to most of what I've read, very little maintenance on
it over the last only twenty five thirty years since
the Chavez regime nationalized those assets from Chevron, Exxon, Connaco, Phillips,

(28:41):
who built much of that infrastructure. So the challenge first,
I think TJ is to go in there and get
the infrastructure up to where they can produce more barrels.
Today they're only producing about eight hundred thousand to a
million barrels a Day's world that produces one hundred and

(29:01):
two million barrels per day, So right now that's less
than one percent of worldwide production. And the first challenge
will be to get that infrastructure in place such that
they could increase the production levels.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
So, Jim, you talked about Conico, Phillips, you talked about Exon.
Chevron has been operating there for some time under a
waiver their stock sword. Yesterday Exon only went up about
one hundred basis points one percent. If I'm Exon, why
would I reinvest there knowing the same thing could happen again?

Speaker 15 (29:35):
Well, not only that, and that's why you've seen Exon,
Conict and even Chevron to some degree being awfully quat
here in my opinion, just south of Venezuela and Guyana,
Excellent has been spending big money making big discoveries in
the same oil field, and then they're also very successful

(29:57):
in the Permian as a Chevrons, you know, DJ. All
of these companies put their capital where they can earn
the highest return and where there's the greatest certainty of
earning that return. So I think that's why you've seen
very little comment out of the majors up to this point.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Jim Cruz is joining US, former president of WAVOGA, also
represented Go West Virginia, Go WV.

Speaker 6 (30:23):
Jim.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
The crewd that is in the ground in Venezuela. This
is probably a lay question, but is it good crude?
Is it good oil or is it difficult to refine
to get to a point where it's usable.

Speaker 15 (30:36):
It is more difficult. It's a longer hydrocarbon chain. It's
what we call ultra heavy crude, and it's a sour crude,
so it contains a great deal of sulfur in it,
which you have to extract out of the stream. It
is so heavy that it's what we call aultra That
means it's got a API gravity of down in the

(30:58):
single digits, as low as eight up to maybe fifteen. Now,
the good thing about that is it matches how our
refinery complexes were built here in the United States. It's
much closer to that twenty to twenty five degree API
that we produced in this country from our conventional reservoirs

(31:20):
in the past, and so we have the refinery complex
to refine that kind of crude. And as a matter
of fact, Chevron brings out twenty twenty five percent of
that crude out of Venezuela today into refineries in the
United States. So I think it's a good thing for

(31:42):
the United States refining complex. Right now, we're getting a
lot of that from Canada. Some of it comes from
Saudi as well. But basically, the new oil that we're producing,
what we call light tight oil out of the shale
formations in the United States, is in the of our
forty degree APR and so it's three times wider than

(32:05):
what they're producing down in Venezuela, out in Saudi Arabia
and up in western Canada. So it would give us
a source closer to the United States and that heavy
cred that our refineries are designed and set up to
manufacture a process, if you will, it produces more products.

(32:26):
The longer the high department chain, the more products that
you produce when you crack that product. So and that standpoint,
I think that'll be the first effect that you'll see.
You'll see some of that creed start to make its
way into the United States refining complex, and it could
displace some of what Canada is producing down in to

(32:48):
the goal for fining complex as.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Well, Jim, As you will know, oil is a global commodity.
Brent crude is what we look at mostly based on
that global commodity status. OPEK drives a lot of that.
Venezuela a founding member of OPEK. Given the relationship here
and given what has happened with the US, is there

(33:13):
any industry scuttle but talk about Venezuela seeing things more
independently outside of OPEC as an homage to the United
States for what they've done to free the country. How
would that play in and would that make West Texas
Intermediate more of a global benchmark than Brent crude.

Speaker 15 (33:34):
That's a good question. It could be headed in that direction.
I think the bigger issue is here in maybe one
of the ancillary benefits to this, if we do stay
in the energy complex in Venezuela, our companies make investments
increase production there. I think the Chinese have been making

(33:57):
huge generads into that part of the world. They've invested,
according to Reuters, more than ten billion dollars into the complex,
and today they're buying about seventy percent of the crewed
coming out of Venezuela. So I'm not so sure what
will happen with Venezuela's status or membership in OPEK, but

(34:21):
I do see maybe this being somewhat of a pushback
on the part of America into China's foothold that they
have now in a country that has the greatest proven
reserves of oil, even greater than Saudi Arabia in this world.
It's estimated that Venezuela has about three hundred billion barrels

(34:45):
of oil. That compares to the United States that has
maybe seventy five in Saudi Arabia that has two hundred
and fifty two hundred and sixty billion barrels. So long
term it's important. Strategically it will be important. And I
think one of the answer he benefits is this is
pulled off by the United States, is that America retains

(35:10):
a foothold in a very important oil field as opposed
to the Chinese developing that.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Jim Cruz joining us here on Metro Newe's talk line,
longtime oil guy here in West Virginia. Let's play the
hypothetical game, Jim, if there's a couple of big ifs here,
If the United States and Venezuela can improve relations, if
Venezuela starts to let's say moderate uh starts to come
around a little bit toward more of the Western way
of thinking. Is the risk worth reward to if you

(35:39):
are running a company, if you're Jim, if you're running Exxon, Buddy,
is the risk worth reward to go into Venezuela? Build infrastructure,
rebuild infrastructure that needs to be taken care of, knowing
everything that's happened in the past.

Speaker 15 (35:55):
I probably would, of course, on a way that risk
can Usually the way we handle risk in the oil
patch TJ. You know that as we form joint ventures, partnerships,
all that sort of thing to spread that risk out.
So I think just the sheer proven reserves in that
country are worth American oil companies sticking their toe back

(36:19):
in the water, if you will, in Venezuela. The other
reason I say that is you've got many Venezuelans that
live in this country and around the world that had
to flee. They knew freedom, They're still alive, and they
are anxious to see that freedom again. I think it

(36:40):
was before the Shades regime took over and they nationalized
their economy. I think that they were the fourth richest
economy in the world at one time, and a lot
of those Venezuelans are still alive, including the dean of
the engineering department at WVU, doctor Mago. I grew up
in Cross just educated there, and he saw that. I

(37:02):
think a lot of those kind of people will have
a lot of influence as to the long term viability
of Venezuela as a capitalist economy. So I'm cautiously bullish
on this becoming a long term proposition for that.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
For that reason, I think you hit it, Jim. Cautious
sleep bullish is a good term, because it's too good
of an opportunity to perhaps pass on the risk, and
there is risk, Dave, to your point, and Jim, the
matter of the Chinese I don't think can be understated.
I mean, you hit the nail on the head there.

(37:43):
If we don't, they will, and releasing that much crude
Venezuela holding the world's largest proven reserves, we have to
be a part of that. We cannot pass on being
a player in the global stage. And having framed that,
so you know a lot of reason that this happened,
but oil is a big one. I think we would
all agree. No one's going to try to deny that,

(38:05):
and we need a seat at the table. In essences,
I agree.

Speaker 15 (38:09):
And we can't. In my opinion, you can't leave that
much proven reserve to the fate of the Chinese. We
know what they'll do with it. They'll they'll use it
as a weapon, as they've done with pharmaceuticals various other
products around the world.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Jim Cruse, long time oh man here in West Virginia. Jim,
thank you for the perspective and the context this morning.

Speaker 15 (38:30):
Have a great day.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Thanks for having me absolutely. Dave Allen will join us
for some reason or other.

Speaker 5 (38:35):
Next.

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Visit Encova dot com to learn more.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Three or four Talk three or four is the text line.
Eight hundred seven six five eight two five five. That's
the phone number. Tony J. Powers Fox News Radio will
join us in the second hour. We'll get the latest
on the criminal charges Nicholas Muduro and his wife are facing.
They were in New York federal court yesterday. We will
get the latest from New York City, from the state capitol,

(40:19):
or at least the state capital city, Charleston, West Virginia. Obviously,
Metro News Midday co host Dave Allen spoke to Mayor
Amy Schuler Goodwin this morning. She delivered her State of
the City address, and Dave Allen joins us on Metro
News talk line, Dave, I guess it's good to talk
to you.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Good morning. You know.

Speaker 19 (40:38):
One of the great things about setting in this particular position, Wilson,
because normally on midday I am in the TJ position
behind the board. One of the great things about setting
in this the GUS position or the place that Amanda sits,
is I can see my reflection.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
In the glass.

Speaker 19 (40:55):
And so I'm gonna it's kind of like when you're
on a zoom call, you know, and you just keep
or itself check out and you just keep looking at yourself.
That's what I'm gonna do for the next five minutes.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
I'm just gonna sit here and look on you say,
like an inner monologue. Just boy, I'm pretty, I'm a
I'm a pretty man. Oh jeez, I'm a pretty man.
That went south quick.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Not my but it happens when you give a listen
to that together. What do you want to Oh, the mayor,
mayor of Charleston was on your show. Here's the big question.
What's what's going to happen with the Charleston Town Center Mall.
It used to be a destination people will all over.
It was a destination.

Speaker 19 (41:28):
As somebody who grew up in southern West Virginia, I
can tell you that, you know, everybody went to the
Charleston Town Center for school, closed shopping and at Christmas
and so on and so forth. And really that was
the case until maybe twenty I'm just throwing you know,
arbitrary years. At the twenty ten to twenty eleven, you know,
it started really going downhill. And uh, the mall was

(41:49):
purchased by a group called the Whole Group, which is
based I believe in Alabama, I think, and they kind
of have a history of taking over shopping malls and
then doing nothing with them and forever, you know, folks
here in Charleston and really statewide, because you know, people
come to Charleston for the state tournament or regott her
whatever the case may be, they always set up the

(42:09):
town Center. People would say, well, why doesn't the city
do something about this, Well, the City of Charleston cannot
do anything about a private property. As long as they
are you know, following all the health department rules and
so on and so forth, there's really nothing that they
can do. So the mayor last night gave her state
of the City address and among the things that she
talked about is that the city is entering into discussions

(42:33):
with the whole group about a transfer of some sort
of the Charlestontown Center mall to the City of Charleston.
Now it's still very early on, but that's pretty much
what they're looking at right now. I'm presuming a tax
write off of some kind for the whole group. I mean,
but that's what she said at city council last night
and what she said on the local show, and she'll
be actually on midday with us after twelve thirty a

(42:55):
day to talk about it further.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
You hit the nail on the head tax right off,
I mean, that's what they use it for right now.
On their other malls that do well, they use this
one to bring down their tax bile income. I'm sure.
So I'll tell you who I think really controls this deal,
the irs. And whether or not what right off they'll
be able to take with.

Speaker 19 (43:10):
That donation will be good enough is what people Most
people want to know is is what's going in there?
And if you read the comments on last night after
the city council meetings, what we need a Trader Joe's
and we need the bottom line none of that's happening.
It's none of that's going to happen. And what she
said on a local show, and she'll reiterated on Midday
to Day as well, is that they are looking at
possibly a total redo of the town Center and it's

(43:33):
not going to involve retail. Now, I'm not going to
say there's going to be no retail there, but it's
not going to be retail. Charlestontown Center nineteen eighty five,
that's not happening. Pullman Square, maybe you think kind of
thing multi what is the term that they use, like
multi use REZI and residential commercial offices, you know, and

(43:53):
forever in Charleston. They've talked about the proposal of this
of the sports complex. I mean, how does that tie
in with its It's very complicated, but it's what they
have to do. I mean, shopping malls are not what
they used to be, specifically when they're in a downtown
area that you have to pay to park in, and
that's kind of where it is.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
Take me back to nineteen eighty five, Dave Allen, I'm
assume with a mullet, were you not cruising the Charleston
Town Center mall?

Speaker 19 (44:18):
I wasn't well, No, I was eighty five of the
mullet was just starting to grow, and I wasn't cruising yet.
I was probably in ninth grade in eighteen eighty five.
But no, I mean it was the hub of everything.
When you came to Charleston, and and you know, you
came to a concert, you came to the state tournament.
As I said, you ended up at the Town Center.
And that's just it's not been that way for some time.
I mean, I think the announcement was just made maybe
last week or so that even more places were closing

(44:39):
at the Town Center. There there's not a heck of
a lot there right now. I applaud the City of
Charleston for this, I mean, as long as it's I mean,
it's really they don't have a whole lot of choice
in this. It's a private business, and the city is
stepping in and saying, look, we want to do something
with this. There's a lot of development going on in
downtown downtown Charleston, which the city of which the mayor

(44:59):
talked about in the interview, and that to stay the
city last night. There's a lot of good things going
on in Charleston right now, and that's the big blight
right now.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
They gonna do something with it. It'll take time.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
If you want more, Dave Allen, Well, you get that
from noon to three each day, met your News Midday
Dave Allen and Amanda Baron and Amy Schuler, go one
mayor of Charleston and join him, and I tease somebody
else coming up on your show today, Kelly Allen's.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Kelly Show today.

Speaker 19 (45:22):
Right, yeah, yeah, I'm still looking at myself in the
glass right now.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
You are a good looking dude. Will admit that I've
been looking at you on the monitor here for the
last five minutes.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
You guys want to be alone looking the rest of
us could step out for a little bit if you
need me.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Hey, we'll get dinner next week when I'm in town.
Sounds good, all right, Dave Allen, appreciate it, buddy.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Thanks back in a moment.

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Speaker 1 (47:14):
I was so enamored with Dave Allen and his dashing
good looks, I almost push that break too long. This
is talk Line on Metro News, the voice of West Virginia.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Metro News. Talk Line is presented by Incova Insurance, encircling
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Visit Incova dot com to learn more.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Second hour of Metro News talk Line here on a
Tuesday morning. Thank you for letting us be part of
your day. Eight hundred seven to sixty five Talk eight
hundred seven sixty five eight two five five. That's the
phone number you can text the show at three or
four Talk three oh four. Jake Clink runs the video

(48:01):
side of things. The voice you hear on the telephone
if you give us a call is Ethan Collins.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
He handles the audio side.

Speaker 23 (48:10):
TJ.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Meadows is in Charleston and that is the team that
puts the show on just about every single day.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Morning TJ. Good morning, sir. The Dow still up about
one hundred and sixty six. The S and P has
given back some of its gains, only up about eight
and a half. NASDAC up to I tell you David,
it's not anything to do with oil. It's Amazon and
Nvidia that are really leading the punch this morning, both
those reporting good results and Amazon up two percent. So
there you go. But it looks like the market has

(48:37):
moved on past the oil deal. They bake that in yesterday.
They're comfortable, So we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
President Trump, by the way, still going. There's a lot
of hand gesturing, there's a lot of pointing. There are a
lot of big gestures. I have no idea what he's saying,
but I'm just watching it, making up my own dialogue
as we go along.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
Right now, he's saying that drug and healthcare prices will
go down. It's kind of like Trump's greatest hits this morning,
since he started talking at just a little after ten.
I mean, he's onto everything. I mean, he is hitting
it all.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
By the way, my favorite new memes, since we're just
throwing random stuff out there to begin this hour, the
Marco Rubio memes. Have you seen those of him sitting
on the couch there and I presume that's the Oval office.
It's Marco Rubio when he finds out, Yeah, I saw
one this morning, Marco Rubio when he finds out he's
governor of Minnesota.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Adam to the list. So those are my favorite. Those
are the little things.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
That make me smile during the day, TJ.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
Because there are very few of those. How many does
Rubio have?

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Though?

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Now to your point, I mean he's Secretary of State,
he's what else, He's czar of this and I mean,
guy's got a lot on his plate.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
He's busy, he's got things to do. He's got things
to do, that's for certain. But that's my new favorite
Internet memes. If you have Internet memes you like, give
us a call eight hundred and seven to sixty five,
talk Through four talk through for tany J. Powers will
join us. Coming up a couple of minutes from now.
We'll get the latest on the criminal charges that Nicholas
Maduro and his wife were arraigned on yesterday in federal

(50:06):
court in New York, and Senator Eric Tarr will stop
by at the bottom of the hour. Up in Hancock County,
very top of the Northern Panhandle, the school system there
is in trouble. According to a report from WTOV television
earlier this month, Hancock County schools could run out of
money by February. First, they are facing financial pressures, and

(50:28):
that's not all necessarily due to declining enrollment and some
of the other pressures that school systems are facing across
the state. Delegate Pat mcgehan represents that district. That's District
number one up in the top of the Northern Panhandle,
and he's going to be introducing a bill related to
what is happening in Hancock County. Joining us on Metro
News talk line is Delegate mcgehon. Delegate, good morning, glad

(50:50):
you could join us.

Speaker 5 (50:51):
Yeah, good morning, no problem too beyond with you guys.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
So it's a long, kind of a complicated story, but
can you give us the cliff notes versions. What kind
of issues are Hancock County schools facing?

Speaker 5 (51:05):
Well, I mean, really this situation is about mismanagement, lack
of accounting, and a number of other factors that led
to this sudden sort of financial crisis. Really, you know,
student enrollment has declined over the last decade or so

(51:27):
in Hancock County, this as it has in many other
parts of the state. But you know that's very slow
and predictable. But the last couple of years, a number
of factors that were just not realized either by definitely
not by meaning that definitely not by the general public

(51:48):
was taking place. You know, there was just a lack
of accounting, and I mean in the technical sense, the
books were just wrong and likely just from gross inconfidence.
You know, hopefully it's nothing more than that, but if

(52:09):
nothing changes right now, Hancock County Schools won't be able
to make payroll by early February. And the CPA, who's
an independent sort of auditor that was called in a
couple of months ago and contracted the state and the
county to kind of redo the books and get him straight,

(52:30):
had a conversation with him yesterday evening for about an hour.
And they might run out of they might not make
payroll this month actually, so hopefully hopefully that doesn't happen,
and we've got some time here, but you know, it's
it's sort of an uncharted waters because or uncharted territory,

(52:50):
I guess, because you know, normally, you know, you account
for things at the beginning of the fiscal year, and
you lay up the game plan and if you got
personnel balanced and you know the proper procedures, if you
need to reduce, you know, have a reduction force, you
do it then, but in this situation, you're outside of

(53:14):
the window at a local level to do anything to
reduce costs. You know, the States, while they could come
in technically and take over and you know, fire management,
that doesn't really solve the you know, the payroll problem
for the rest of the fiscal year because all they
could do again is, you know, manage things fire people

(53:36):
that may may or may not have been incompetent, and
they don't have any reserve funds though they bring with them.
So you know, it's sort of a blind spot, I
guess in the system and a number of things I
think lather this as I got into it, and I
didn't learn the gravity of the situation until a meeting
I had arranged with the Department of Education in early

(53:58):
December State House. And so you know, the Pancock County
School District is about one hundred and forty three positions
over the school weight formula, which is fairly high by itself,
but for a county like mine in Hancock, it's drastically
high because the supplemental revenue from the local levees is
rather marginal, even though it's at one hundred percent of

(54:21):
thatsess property values. You know, when Pancok County also has
one of the highest ratios of administrators to students in
the entire state. You know, the district. The school district
entered the fiscal year believing it had a one point
six million dollars surplus from fiscal year twenty five that

(54:45):
which ended, you know, June thirty. But in reality, after
the independent CPA stepped in a couple of months ago
to start really looking at the books, that was wrong.
It actually had a two million dollar deficit and fiscal
year twenty five this past summer, so at one point
six million dollar surplus too. Get they thought they had

(55:07):
that would carry over. You know, now you're what at
three point six million in the whole, well, two million
in the hole wipes out that one point six million
they budgeted for this current fiscal year. So add to
that to project your deficit for fiscal year twenty six
can be about five point three million, you're looking at
a combined shortfall of roughly seven million, seven point three million.

(55:30):
So it's it's it's a bad situation. There were a
lot of infrastructure spends over the last two years on
you know, athletic fields at some of a couple of
high schools. COVID relief funds also played I think a

(55:50):
factor in this for about three fiscal years seeing twenty three,
twenty two to twenty three and twenty four, or the
school system in Hancock A masked about ten million in
COVID funds all together. When those funds at that time

(56:11):
were used to to fund positions, personnel positions, and they
actually created new positions. And so you know, when those
those funds were no longer there, nothing was done. And
fiscal year twenty five was the first full year where
there was you know, it was a return to normalcy

(56:32):
so to speak, where there you know, no COVID funds
were available anymore, and you know, so it didn't happen overnight,
but that's sort of the background of how it happened
so rapidly because nothing was done.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
So let's unpack a little bit of that. First off,
what a mess number one? What a mess? Uh number
number two? If I'm hearing you right, it sounds to
me like there it was a lack of business is
acumen within the administration and the day to day management,
and that the board was receiving inaccurate information. So if

(57:09):
that's the case, Pat, if I'm a CPA, I'm a controller.
I can go to the private sector and make a
heck of a lot more than I can as a
school treasurer. So is that the problem? Do we need
to figure out a way to make sure that someone
in the administration maybe has the business acumen to run
the business side of it? Because most superintendents, they're teachers,
they're principals, they're great educators, they're not business people. Is

(57:32):
that part of the issue here?

Speaker 5 (57:37):
You know, I can't speak to that, but I would
say that one thing that can be done is that
you know, there's there's good accountants that serve as you know,
CFOs treasurers. I don't know what the right technical term
in the educational industry is in our state, but you know, uh,

(58:01):
there's definitely good administrators. And you know, I mean if
they're you're getting paid you know, six figures, well, in
Hancock County, you're living like a king. So I don't
think we're lack of hay, you know, is the problem
to attract better, uh, you know, quality folks there? You know,
I think one thing is that the state is sort

(58:22):
of relying on the word of the local school districts
when they have to you know, when they have to
turn in their their their financial documentation. You know, however
many times that is a year, and so they're just
going off of basically what they're telling them. The books are. Like,
for instance, in Hankok County for you know, last ten

(58:47):
years at least from looking into this, the CFO or
treasurer of HANCOTK County School, same person who has been terminated,
he was not using the preferred software accounting software that
the you know, state Department of Education, uh you push

(59:09):
us out for for for all the county school districts
in the state to use. And so he was basically
for decades, uh, using his own Excel spreadsheet and then
just taking all of the numbers from his own personal
self spreadsheet and then dumping them into this software. And

(59:30):
he never reconciled any of those numbers with the bank ever,
you know bank statements, and so you know, it's easy
to fudge your Excel threadsheet and then dump you know,
uh deposits and uh uh and if that's you know,
it's it's it's there was no way to justify whether

(59:52):
expenses or the income was correct. So, uh, that had
been going on for a while. And you know, I
don't think it was any was intentional. It was just
in the state was you know, just taking taking taking
know those finances at you know, fake value. So, you know,
I think and I've been talking with the state School

(01:00:15):
Finance ops or you know, the Assistant State Superintendent School
Superintendent and support of the legislation that we've been drafting
in the last month will include some provisions that will
likely mandate a few things that need to happen on
that accounting side.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Pat mcgehan is joining US Hancock County Delegate Pat bottom line,
you got a school system that's out of money. You've
got teachers that need paid, You've got cooks that need paid,
You've got janitors that need paid. Your hands are tied,
or the school system's hands are tied as far as
you can't lay people off in the middle of the year.
You can't make a bunch of huge cuts. So what
could the state do and what are you proposing when

(01:00:56):
the legislative session starts next week to address situations like
this moving forward?

Speaker 5 (01:01:04):
So I've been working ever since I found this out
in early December at a requested meeting with the state
Department of Education. I have been with a number of
other guys, including the Speaker of the House, my good
friend Roger Hanshaw, and a few other of my colleagues,

(01:01:28):
and we've been putting together a legislation that will create
sort of like the revolving loan fund for distressed counties
that they can drawl upon for emergency funds. Now, it'll

(01:01:48):
be a narrow sort of qualification, and in this case,
it'll be essentially maladministration, and so there'll be strict conditions
that come with that. And it would just be essentially
a loan to get the cover payroll and other operational
essential costs through the rest of the fiscal year and

(01:02:11):
to order to on our word on our obligations, get
the employees paid, keep the schools open. But it also
isn't included with that. The language will say that now
before you receive the funds, man, that's got to go.
You know, we can't hand over even loan funds from

(01:02:32):
the state into the very hands of people that presided
over this sort of catastrophe. So that's sort of the
essence of legislations being put together. And you know, there's
already a section of code we found out within the
small business or the School Building Authority that provides emergency

(01:02:53):
funds for distressed counties for infrastructure, you know, so we
can and just expand that to operational costs and make
sure we honor our obligations for payroll too. So that's
sort of the in a nutshell, you know, without getting

(01:03:14):
into too much in the weeds. That's the concept right now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
So we've got plenty of time to get into the
weeds starting next Wednesday. Hancock County Delegate Pat mcgeeon, Pat,
thank you for the update. We appreciate it. To see
at the Capitol in about a week.

Speaker 5 (01:03:27):
Yeah, okay, gave thanks much.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Absolutely, Pat mcgeeon, Hancock County Delegate, got to take a
break back at the moment. This is talk line from
the Cove Insurance Studios.

Speaker 8 (01:03:36):
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Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Let's go to New York City Fox News Radios Tony J.
Powers Nicholas Maduro and his wife arraigned yesterday in federal
courts on criminal charges. Tanya, good morning, Thanks for joining us.
Set the scene for us or no cameras in the courtroom,
but what played out yesterday?

Speaker 24 (01:05:09):
Yeah, you're right, there's no cameras or recording equipment in
the courtroom, no audio recording either. It is federal court
after all. So Maduro and his wife were brought over
from Brooklyn from the Metropolitan Detention Center by helicopter and
then taken by armored vehicle motorcade to the courthouse where
I was standing outside across the street from the front

(01:05:31):
doors of the courthouse. I was not in the courtroom,
there's only limited space in there. Our field producer was though,
and they relayed the information to us that both of
both Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores, came in with
They had leg shackles, they had prison guard on. They
also had headsets, so there the information could be translated

(01:05:52):
into Spanish for them, just so that's how they heard
that through the headsets. Maduro spoke a lot more than
his wife did. He kept trying to tell the judge
that he was innocent and that he had been captured
and was a prisoner of war. The judge, you know,
basically kind of kept saying, okay, is your name Nicholas Maduro,
and he finally said, you know, yes, that is who

(01:06:13):
I am. He kept again trying to tell the judge
and if he was innocent. The judge said, you know,
you will have time for pleading your case and telling
the court all of this later. Right now, we just
need you know, to know how you plead. Both he
and Flores entered not guilty. Police as we as we
know now, the whole thing didn't take very long. It

(01:06:35):
was a it was a pretty as expected, pretty quick,
you know, court appearance. Both of them we learned right
before their court apparents who their attorneys were going to be.
His attorney is a prominent Washington, d c. Lawyer who
has represented some high profile folks like Julian Assange, the
Luke's you know, co founder. Her lawyer is a prominent

(01:06:59):
Texas attorne me who has also had some hygh profile
clients in the past. So those are the people who
are representing them here. Not sure if they're also going
to have other private council in addition to them, or
how they're getting paid for if this is pro bono
work or what, But that's kind of how things happened
yesterday in court.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
What are the next steps, Tanya, What what does the
timeframe look like? I mean the US now, I would
think they're gonna have to goe the witnesses. They're going
to have to present a case and present a prosecution
and that's going to take time.

Speaker 24 (01:07:29):
No, it is. You know, it's a federal case, so
we know that the next court appearance I think is
set from March. But I mean, think about it, the
court cases don't usually go super fast anyway. It's a
federal case, which means, you know, there's there's going to
be a lot of a lot of information that's going
to have to be you know, put forth evidence whatever.

(01:07:53):
This also is a case that has geopolitical ramifications. It's
not This is not just a you know, cut and
dried criminal case in the US. It has a lot
bigger raalifications than just that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Fox News Radio is a Tanya Jay Powers. Tanya, thank
you so much for the update.

Speaker 25 (01:08:12):
We appreciate it, sure, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Coming up, Eric Tarr, Senator, state senator from Putnam County
going to join us here on Much News Talk Line.
In fact, he's going to be in the studios down
in Charles STI will get his take on the governor's
concept of further reducing the personal income tax by five
to ten percent. Senator Tar was instrumental in the tax
cuts and the path to eventually eliminate the personal income

(01:08:38):
tax when it was passed back in twenty twenty three,
so we'll get his take on that. We'll get your
takes as well. Three or four Talk three or four
is the text line. You can give us a call
at eight hundred and seven sixty five eight two five five, Oh,
Greg and Ona. I told I told you Greg, if
you were going to wait, if you would hang with
me through the news, we would get to your call.
If you call back, I will get to you before
Eric Tarr joins us. I told you to have going on.

(01:09:01):
I promise. I'm a man of my word. This is
talk line from the Incove Insurance Studios on Metro News
for forty years, the Voice of West Virginia. It is
eleven thirty. Let's get a news update from the Metro
News radio network. Find out what's happening all across the
great state of West Virginia.

Speaker 23 (01:09:19):
West Virginia Metro News. I'm Chris Lawrence. The City of
Charleston may soon be in control of the future of
the Town Center Mall. Mayor Amy Goodwin confirmed in her
State of the City address Monday night that the city
has been in talks with the Hall Group to take
ownership of the mall and says if they get it,
there's great hope.

Speaker 10 (01:09:35):
We need to immediately begin to work to determine what
does this space and place look like Because of our
amazing partnerships with so many folks in the city of Charleston,
in the state of West Virginia. We've had great conversations
with folks who have done just this and other parts
of the country and been so incredibly successful.

Speaker 23 (01:09:58):
Since the Hall Group came to ownersh ship of the
mall that has continued to lose tenants, the mayor said,
city officials will build on the momentum of last year
to try and push that project forward. The twenty twenty
sixth regular session of the Legislature is just over a
week from gabbling into order. Senate President Randy Smith has
announced the appointment of Senator Patricia Rucca of Jefferson County

(01:10:19):
as the Assistant Majority Leader. Also, Rutger's been named chair
of the Committee on School Choice. A Bluefield man what
are for multiple Felonis, is behind bars after being arrested
in Clarksburg. Us Marshall's took fifty year old Gary Wilson
into custody as he got out of a parked car Monday.
He has charged his stem from a December sixteenth shooting
incident in Hinton. He was arrested at that time, but

(01:10:41):
managed to slip out of his handcuffs and flee police.
You're listening to metri Neews, the voice of West Virginia
Greer Industries.

Speaker 26 (01:10:49):
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visit Greerlimestone dot com or call three oh four two
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(01:11:39):
our industry. Join today visit metcoal dot com. Met Coal
makes it possible. MCPA makes it Personal.

Speaker 23 (01:11:48):
A major donation by the Health Plan to West Virginia
Food Banks, the company announcing it has donated three hundred
thousand dollars to the food pantries in West Virginia. Part
of its Spirit of Giving campaign, A total of twelve
food banks each received time twenty five thousand dollars. President
and CEO Jeff Knight said part of the company's mission
to improve health and well being means supporting organizations like
these who are on the front lines of helping those

(01:12:09):
in need. In twenty twenty five, the Health Plan contributed
approximately a million dollars to nonprofits. From the Metro News
anchor desk, I'm Chris Lawrence.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
When it comes to cybersecurity, citty net has you covered.
Their expert team monitors to texts and protects your network.

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So keep your business secure with citding nets, cyber suite solutions,
sitting net connects, protects and perfects. We'll get to your
texts coming up three oh four Talk three oh four.
You can give us a call. Eight hundred and seven
to sixty five Talk eight hundred seven sixty five eight
two five five last hour talk to Steven Allen Adams
Ogden Newspapers about Governor Morrissey's news conference yesterday, where he

(01:13:06):
announced that he would like to see the legislature pursue
a even further cut to the personal income tax, maybe
somewhere in the neighborhood of five to ten percent. We'll
get more details on that when he presents the budget
during the State of the State address coming up a
week from tomorrow. By the way, talk line will originate
from the Capitol week from tomorrow as we get the
sixty day legislative session started to talk more taxes. Please

(01:13:29):
welcome to the program State Center from Putnam County. Eric Tar,
Senator Tar, Good morning, Good to see again on.

Speaker 25 (01:13:34):
Good morning guys. Good to see all as well.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Appreciate you coming by. So what was your thought when
you heard the governor mention that he'd like to see
a further reduction to the personal income tax.

Speaker 25 (01:13:44):
You know, I understand any governor coming in, at least
the Republican governor, you're gonna see him one to reduce taxes,
and so understand that that impetus. I think that on
the income tax side of things. One of the reasons
that we constructed the way we did is to make
sure that's successful in the long term. And you know,
I was one of the primary architects on this income

(01:14:04):
tax cut, which was a little rate one hundred million
dollars by the time you put it all together, and
that in addition to other taxes we cut, was little
over a billion dollars. So we based that on sixty
year history trendline. We went back sixty years, looked at
the ebbs and flows of income to the state ebbs
and flows of expenses, and what you had to hedge

(01:14:24):
against in a downturn market or an exodus of jobs
or an industry out of West Virginia, and those happened
over time. When you go back, you could really see
what would happen and what kind of safety that you needed.
And you could also have examples of other states who
have tried to eliminate their income tax and failed. And
so right now there's the only states that has successfully

(01:14:46):
eliminated their income tax that wasn't didn't already start that
way was Alaska, and Alaska had a lot of struggles
with it. Even when they did it, they had to
go back and fix it. So one of the things
that the team we had around this when we were
constructing is how do we get ahead of it so
that we can take a big chunk out of it
and then also be able to trigger it down. So

(01:15:06):
that's what we have now. So we've cut taxes twenty
four percent on income tax ish it's around twenty four percent.
The actual income tax collections are only down one percent
over last year. Sales tax collections are up and wages
are up, so that's part of the reason you see
the income tax still climbing as well. Severnce tax collections
are up. It's up across the board. We're going to
have probably by the time of this fiscal year's done,

(01:15:27):
a quarter billion dollars in surplus when you don't count
lottery surplus, and there's probably another one hundred and thirty
million there they'll probably end up with time we're done.
So you start wondering what do you do with surplus.
And here's where I would give caution. I want to
cut taxes too. And we are cutting taxes, and there
is a system that is there to reduce these taxes

(01:15:49):
safely and effectively to a zero point over time. And
the way that works is that when West Virginia's economy
outpaces inflation by one percent, that goes straight to income
tax reduction. It all goes to income tax reduction.

Speaker 2 (01:16:05):
That's space on GDP.

Speaker 25 (01:16:06):
It's based no, that's based on CPIKA to the consumer
Price Index. So when that when that goes up, inflationary rate,
when that goes up, West Virginia, if we outpace our
revenue outpaces that the revenue the revenue, So the average
the average increase of revenue with CPI over the past
sixty years. And look this was three point six percent.

(01:16:28):
So that's that is if you put it all together,
that's the inflationary rate that you could average it out to.
So what we did said, okay, well let's go in
and say that if we can beat whatever CPI is
in the preceding year, then whatever that is, we can
go down because our money coming in is worth more
than the dollar inflated. Okay, So that's a safe, safe
way to phase after income tax because all the other

(01:16:49):
taxes start absorbing the expenses that you were incurred that
you were applying income tax to. So what happens if
you get ahead of it and this is this is
this is the cautionary tell I would say. So Kandas
did that. Kansas went in and said, Okay, we're going
to do an aggressive income tax cut. We're gonna liiminate
our income tax cut, and we're also going to do
all these cuts and spending, which we've done a lot
of cuts and spending. The cuts didn't go through, tax

(01:17:10):
on spending didn't go through, but the income tax did,
and they ended up having to go back and reverse
everything they did because they put their state upside down.
So what my We've already stepped outside of what we
said we were going to do with the tracking the
inflationary rate. And the way we did that is we
went ahead and this is the final year of having
any income tax and social security that was above and

(01:17:32):
beyond that trigger. So we did that as well. We
went in and increased a tax cut by four percent
above and beyond that. There there comes a time that
that and I hope that I don't have to come
back and doing having I told you so. A moment
is when you have an economy that dips hard. You

(01:17:53):
haven't it, you had a two thousand and eighth that hits,
then what do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
Consumptions down?

Speaker 25 (01:17:58):
Are we going to go back in increased tax axis?
That's the question you have to ask yourself practically when
you're faced in the political challenge of we do we
want to introduce taxes? You knowed we've got to reduce taxes.
That's who we are where Republicans are going to go
in and I'm that guy too, but also don't want
to make it to where that we can't afford the
business of the state that we were charged to do

(01:18:20):
by the constitution that we all operated under, because we
let politics get too far ahead of practicality. So and
I think that, so I'm waiting to see the governors.
I guess long at the short end, so is I'm
waiting to see the governor's recommendation. Because we do have
surpluses that could go apply. But you have to realize
that you you have to account that some of those

(01:18:40):
surpluses are really one time money. They are when they
come in there's they're ebbs and flows that one time
hit you, and you can do things with those moneys
to position yourself to have further income tax reductions and ahead.
Here's what I would do if I had my riads.
I go right back to what we suggested in the
first place, before we ever went to the income tax cut.
That's eliminate personal property tax were it's a right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:03):
Now counties are going to love you for that.

Speaker 25 (01:19:04):
Well, you can go back in and replace it with
the revenue that comes in from the state, and for
having done that, you'll have you'll supercharge the growth of
the state, and that supercharge of growth allows you then
to more aggressively attack the income tax.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
So capital expansion leads to the ability to lower personal
income tax because you have more on the top line.

Speaker 25 (01:19:22):
Absolutely, absolutely so right now we're so on competitive with
nationally when you look at our personal property tax situation,
and you can supercharge that revenue growth in the state,
and it takes a little time. Everything government does but
to take a little time. But you're talking to get
rid of personal property tax, to go and go in
and replace that revenue that the counties would lose, maybe

(01:19:42):
even buy more than they currently collect, because some of
them are really upside down. You could go back in
and do that, and that's probably a four or five
hundred million dollar challenge, whereas eliminating our income tax is
over a two billion dollar challenge. So you know, there's
you can go in and have an effect of things.
So we're twenty four percent every tax. I want to keep,

(01:20:04):
you know what, I work my butt off, just like
everybod out here listening to us. You know, it's just
I want to keep the money I make, and I
spend it better than any government spends it. I promise
you that, And especially being in the inner workings of
the government, when the sausage comes down on tax bills,
I promise you, I spend my own money better than
the state does, and you do too. So the way
that we get to effective tax reduction is that we

(01:20:29):
have to be able to put more back into the
pockets of people who go in and spend that money appropriately.
And we penalize reinvestment in businesses in West Virginia with
our personal property tax so much so that it prevents
some business from coming to West Virginia. Because that penalty
is so strong, we can go in with a lot
less money and have a lot bigger impact. Because with

(01:20:50):
income tax reductions, you really don't see an economic impact
from growth. From what we looked at when we were
going to that major that the largest tax cut history
that we did an income tax cut. Ntil you cut
it fifty percent, you don't see the economic impact from it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
You've got to make people understand though, how that will
drop their personal income tax. That's the disconnect. If you
can get people to understand that cutting business inventory tax
cutting personal property tax will eventually allow them to further
accelerate the reduction in personal income tax. You'll get them
on board, but you're gonna have a tough sell with
that because people.

Speaker 25 (01:21:21):
We already do that. And this is how this is
how we're getting to this, and the way we do
it now is West Virginia is in a clunky mechanism.
To be able to compete. We go in and say
to the fortune five hundreds and one hundreds of the world,
as you know what, if you come in, we're going
to do a tax incrementing finding, a tax incremental financing district,
and we're going to do a sales tax incremental financing district,

(01:21:42):
and we're going to reduce all this personal property tax
so that you can come in and turn this cornfield
into a billion dollar plant. We don't have to do
that if we don't have personal property tax. And so
the states that don't, we don't know how many conversations
we don't even get into because when they start looking
at it, well, I'm not going to go to West
Virginia because look at this personal proptext. So that's gonna
cost that's gonna cost us five hundred million dollars by

(01:22:04):
the time we're in there for ten years. I'm not
doing that because we are robot heavy, we are tech heavy,
or whatever that is. That that big personal property piece
that I want to pay. And then the existing companies
that are here, they want to depreciate whatever they invest in.
So if you've got you go buy a robot and
it costs a million dollars to do work in there,
you don't want to turn around and buy a robot
next year that maybe is four times more efficient the

(01:22:26):
one you bought last year because of the personal property
tax gets in the way of it. You want you
appreciate that one that is inefficient as far as it
will go, and your protectivity goes down and you're less competitive.
In West Virginia, the would be if you're across the river.
When you give businesses the power to be able to
reinvest in their business because they also spend their money

(01:22:46):
way smarter than any state does, any county does, they
generate more revenue, more jobs, more income in the state
that you can go in and get rid of personal
income tax.

Speaker 1 (01:22:55):
With so So, Eric, is there an appetite in the
legislature to take this up again and put that in
front of them because voters, voters had a chance to
repeal that personal property tax in the business inventory tax,
and they said no. So is there an appetite to
take that up again and give voters another opportunity.

Speaker 25 (01:23:12):
I believe there's an appetite in legislatures to give the
voters a second chance at it. And I do you know,
I've said it, I think on this show, and I've
said it on about every every platform that I have
out there, is that the public was largely misled what
happened with those four amendments that are on a constitution
ballot by the Justice administration. They just were he went
around the state and just went after those amendments because

(01:23:33):
he wanted to do income tax first. So and here
we are, you know, still stuck at around twenty four
percent when you don't get an economic impact until active
fifty percent. And that's a you know, it took us
eight hundred million dollars to get to twenty four percent,
well over the actually by the time he did another
four percent. So that in the legislature we understand how
much that allows us to really more go grow more

(01:23:57):
aggressive after the income tax if we can get rid
of the personal property tax. It also fixes a lot
of the economic situations we have in some of our
counties where they have had a exodus of personal property
in their counties. So now they're losing. How do they
generate revenue? When you have a company that shuts down

(01:24:18):
and when they shut down, they all their personal property
holdings go with them, and that's happened in so many
counties across this state. Then where's the revenue come from.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
I still wish you'd talk more about consumption tax. And
I know you and I agree on that, but I
don't have enough about consumption tax up to the legislay.
I would much rather pay a sales tax than have
my labor tax.

Speaker 25 (01:24:37):
TJ me too, same here. I introduced that bill and
it got shot down. I championed that bill. It went
down in flames in a house when we did that,
a hundred to nothing. So and as you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
See it in the numbers, we just looked at we
have the revenue secretary on and you see that pattern
we have them on every month. What's going on? More
money in the pocket, Like you said, more people are spent.
I wish they would save it. Don't get me started
on that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
But they spend it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
They spend it.

Speaker 25 (01:25:03):
You figured for every sales tax, for every one percent
that you would increase sales tax, you get a two
hundred and fifty million dollar that comes into the state
ISH for every one percent of income tax, it's around
four hundred million dollars. So you could go in and
we and we have room to still be competitive that

(01:25:24):
if you replaced the income tax with a sales tax increase,
you can get to that fifty percent a lot quicker.
One of the problems we have in the legislature, though,
is is that you have legislators that go around and
they sign this I'm never going to raise a tax pledge.
And the way that some legislators interpret that is that
any individual tax increase is still an increase, even if

(01:25:46):
it if you get a net decrease in the tax.
And so we were working on doing that as a
net decrease, right, So we were reducing the income tax
increase in sales tax, but the tax reduction across the
board was on one hundred million dollars ISH level, which
is little more thing. I thinks about three hundredllion, And
trying to go back memory, it's been a few years
back of a reduction overall, but to get there, we

(01:26:09):
had to increase sales tax.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
You got to educate people that you're gonna have to
get a YouTube channel on your whiteboard and you're.

Speaker 25 (01:26:13):
Gonna have to start and watching a YouTube channel. That's
the problem. That's that's that's issue. That's the issue.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
I don't know how you fix it, man, but that's that's. Yeah.

Speaker 25 (01:26:22):
I believe me. I preached it and preached it and
preached it, and really at the legislature. You know, anybody's
out here listening or if you've been around legislature, I
think you can talk to any legislator and realize that
when you get into really complicated issues and legislature, you
have to be able to get it down to explain
it about sixth seventh grade grade level. And the reason
is it's not I'm not calling the legislature stupid. And
I see grinning over there and understand the grand I'm

(01:26:45):
not calling the legislature stupid some of y'all, y'all can
you can do that? And y'all want to call stupid,
that's a But what what you have to do is
is every one of those legislators has to go back
in to their district and explain the way they voted.
And they have to be able to explain it in
a way they understand it. There's a lot of people
out there that just aren't math people. Yeah, and so
if you can't go back, and if you can't make

(01:27:06):
it so simple that they can explain it easily to
justify their vote, they're scared to death to make that vote.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
Yeah. Hey, David, what do you think about this? What
do you think about this? Dave? Taxes with TAR coming
to Metro News Television.

Speaker 25 (01:27:20):
Hey, guys, we can talk about it every week if
you've got to broad to your audience and I do
all come out and we'll talk about it. Man, And
I bet you a lot of the legs leasures listen
right now. So maybe maybe we we can help get
this educational out through your platform. Here, let's leave.

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
Session starts a week from tomorrow. We will be there
at the State Capital Center, Tar I'm sure we'll see
you at some point during the sixty day session which
starts a week from tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
Thanks for stopping by today.

Speaker 25 (01:27:43):
Appreciate thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 (01:27:44):
Dave got to take a break back.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
At them, but talk line from the Cove Insurance Studios.

Speaker 27 (01:27:49):
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(01:28:10):
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Speaker 3 (01:29:00):
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Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
The West Virginia Lottery is turning forty and wants to celebrate.
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(01:29:36):
couple of texts here three before talk through at four.
I'll come back to that one. Would people buy things
if they were more expensive because of taxes? Hard to
sell someone on getting a TV when it's hundreds of
dollars more because of taxes. It seems like a good
way to get voted out of office. I bet people,
especially lower wage people, would end up paying more in
taxes because of a consumption tax, says the Texter.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
Making a luxury tax, right, So we're not talking about
food essentials, et cetera. More focuses on luxury items, and
a lot of evidence out there that says just the opposite.
More discretionary money upfront, not taxing labor, will produce more
spend in the economy, and that's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
So We're not talking about taxing groceries. We're not talking
about taxing essential things.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
No, no, no, no. But maybe a bass boat, maybe you know,
speed boats, maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
That extra that corvette in the garage h one day
and guess who buys those items?

Speaker 2 (01:30:34):
People with money?

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
Yep, Dave and TJ. I would listen to Senator Tar.
He's making a lot of sense to people who voted.
Were voted. No, we're misinformed it to peers. We have
to have more business in West Virginia. How do we
weigh tax cuts versus the investments needed statewide? I'm all
for tax cuts, but we also have to pay the bills.
The governor has not only talked about tax cuts, he's

(01:30:56):
also talked about raising teacher pay, law enforcement and others.
How do we do both with fiscal responsibility? Well, to
be fair, give him a chance. We'll see the budgets
next week. Uh three or four? Talk three four? Dave
and TJ, the governor and Tar and everybody talking about
tax cuts. Our highway system it is a disaster along

(01:31:19):
with everything else. How are we going to pay for
fixing this?

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Asks the Texter. I could really dive into that, but
we don't have the time. No, we do not.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
H Dave and TJ belonged to the same sect of
scared little white boys who fomented the legal and immoral
invasion and occupation of a rock.

Speaker 28 (01:31:37):
We're in a club, TJ appreciate that. Do we get jackets?
We'll get some patches made up. Dave Allen's got the
clubhouse in his backyard. Can't wait for a first meeting.
All right, back to wrap it up after this, We
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Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
I want to make sure to mention briefly. The National
Sports Media Association announced yesterday they're winners of Sportscaster and
sports Writers of the Year across the country. Here at
West Virginia, it was a Metro News sweep. Travis Jones

(01:33:59):
is named the NSA West Virginia Sportscaster of the Year
and Greg Carey was named Sports Writer of the Year.
So congratulations to those two guys, though head down to
North Carolina in June to accept their awards. Both the
much deserving of that honor.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Well done congratulations.

Speaker 1 (01:34:16):
So two years ago Fred won it, last year the
sportscast through the year, Travis wins it finally this year
his first, and Greg being honored as well. So I
just wanted to say congratulations to those guys. The entire
Metro News sports team do a great job, football, basketball,
all the above.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
There very deep bench in our sports department.

Speaker 1 (01:34:35):
All right, we're done at least for today. Mention News
Midday coming up on many of these same Metro News
radio stations. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Center Capitot scheduled
to join us talk at ten oh six

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Talkline | Jan. 6, 2026

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