June 4, 2023 • 36 mins
Better than a Romy and Michele’s High School Reunion reboot, picture it: A milestone high school reunion at an ultra-conservative Catholic High School in Orange County…Shakina Nayfack, Class of (fill in the blank, we don’t do ages): performer, director, writer, producer, artistic director, and activist whose groundbreaking career has encompassed television, theater, and music with projects on Amazon, Hulu, Audible, and NBC; making television history not once, not twice, but three times. Sounds like a Most Successful Honoree, correct? Too bad the high school asked her to leave when she was the victim of bullying because of her identity as part of the LGBTQ community.
The multi-hyphenate entertainment goddess Shakina Nayfack survived those tough years and went on to become a founding member and artistic director of New York's Musical Theatre Factory, developing hundreds of musicals, including the Tony and Pulitzer Prize-winning A Strange Loop and her one-woman show, unabashedly titled Manifest Pussy, to critical and audience acclaim. For her theatre work, she has received the Lilly Award, the TRU Humanitarian Award from Theatre Resources Unlimited, and the Beatrice Terry Fellowship Award from the Drama League. She has had a pivotal role in front of and behind and behind the camera for the Transparent Musicale Finale, Hulu’s Difficult People with Billy Eichner, NBC’s Connecting, and Quantum Leap. And what a leap her life has had.
In this amazing chat, we talked about it all…in her candid, opinionated way…we chatted about her coming out journey, her first years moving to NY, getting into the theatre scene, the evolution of the LGBTQ community in media, activism fatigue and the need for mental rest, making TV history for the trans community, what the hell is going on in the nation right now, and yes, even those early high school years. Hosted by Alexander Rodriguez.
The multi-hyphenate entertainment goddess Shakina Nayfack survived those tough years and went on to become a founding member and artistic director of New York's Musical Theatre Factory, developing hundreds of musicals, including the Tony and Pulitzer Prize-winning A Strange Loop and her one-woman show, unabashedly titled Manifest Pussy, to critical and audience acclaim. For her theatre work, she has received the Lilly Award, the TRU Humanitarian Award from Theatre Resources Unlimited, and the Beatrice Terry Fellowship Award from the Drama League. She has had a pivotal role in front of and behind and behind the camera for the Transparent Musicale Finale, Hulu’s Difficult People with Billy Eichner, NBC’s Connecting, and Quantum Leap. And what a leap her life has had.
In this amazing chat, we talked about it all…in her candid, opinionated way…we chatted about her coming out journey, her first years moving to NY, getting into the theatre scene, the evolution of the LGBTQ community in media, activism fatigue and the need for mental rest, making TV history for the trans community, what the hell is going on in the nation right now, and yes, even those early high school years. Hosted by Alexander Rodriguez.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
This is Metrosource Mini, the officialpodcast to Metrosource magazine and home of short
form interviews with your favorite personalities fromthe LGBTQ world and beyond. Quick,
fun and informative. It's Metrosource onthe go, out in proud since nineteen
ninety. Hello, this is Metrosourceminis the companion podcast to Metrosource Magazine.
(00:27):
I'm your host Alexander Rodriguez, writerfor Metrosource and queen of the podcast Happy
Pride Better than a Roman. Michelle'shigh School Reunion reboot picture It a milestone
high school reunion at an ultraconservative Catholichigh school in Orange County, California.
Shaquina Napak class of What we won'tfill in the blank we don't do ages
performer director, writer, producer,artistic director, and activist whose groundbreaking career
(00:51):
has encompassed television, theater, andmusic, with projects on Amazon, Hulu,
Audible, and NBC making television history. Not once, not twice,
spent three times. Sounds like amost successful honoree. Right. Too bad
the high school asked her to leavewhen she was the victim of bullying because
of her identity. As part ofthe LGBTQ community. Not so fun.
Fact, I went to high schoolwith her and didn't say a word.
(01:14):
I was still deep in the closet, even to myself. But I digress.
This multi hyphen and entertainment goddess,Shaquina and Apacs survived those tough years
and went on to become a foundingmember and artistic director of New York's Musical
Theater Factory, developing hundreds of musicals, including the Tonian Poetzer Prize winning A
Strange Loop and her one woman showunabashedly titled Manifest Pussy, to critical and
(01:38):
audience acclaim. For her theater work, she has received the Lily Award,
the True Humanitarian Award from Theater ResourcesUnlimited, and the Beatrice Terry Fellowship Award
from the Drama League. She's hada pivotal role in front of and behind
the camera for the transparent musical finaleWho Lose Difficult People with Billy Eichner,
NBC's connecting and quantum leap, andwhat a leap her life has had.
(02:00):
In this amazing chat, I wasable to reconnect with Shikina as we talked
about it all in her candid andopinionated way, we chatted about her coming
out journey, her first year's movingto New York, getting into the theater
scene, the evolution of the LGBTQcommunity, and media activism, fatigue and
the need for mental rest, makingTV history for the trans community, and
(02:20):
yes, even those early high schoolyears. Check it out and check out
my end up chat with her andMetrosource print and online. Head to metrosource
dot com. All right, Shikida, can you tell me what the hell
is going on in the US.There's this juxtaposition of entertainment that's enjoying a
(02:42):
boom in LGBTQ content, you yourselfhaving made TV history, now what about
three times? And all of this, Yeah, and all of this is
happening right next to these laws thatare forcing our community back into the closet
or even jail. What is thewar on LGBTQ all about? And it's
(03:04):
not being reflected in entertainment. Imean, it's such a weird juxtaposition.
Yeah. I think there's two thingsgoing on that are important to recognize.
The first is that at any momentof you know, liberation, the forces
of darkness will rally hardest against thelight about to break free. And so
(03:30):
because we've had this incredible upswelling oftransvisibility and the possibility for trans young people
to even come out and exist,which is just so worthy of celebration,
it has created a backlash from youknow, a really fringe, unfortunately powerful
(04:00):
vocal group that UM has taken swayover over the majority of a passive,
you know, political base. Um. You know, people are so like,
uh, daunted by um, thepolitical landscape these days that um,
(04:27):
you know, it's they're so dauntedby the political landscape that it's hard it's
hard to notice. I forgive peoplefor not noticing, but it's hard to
notice when such a small percentage ofthe population is being used at such a
(04:48):
massive political scale. UM. It'scertainly, it's certainly terrifying. And you
know there's Oh and I wanted tosay one more thing, sorry, because
the second part of your question wasabout, like, why aren't we seeing
this in entertainment, And it's reallyinteresting because you know, I'm in the
(05:11):
business of imagining trans futures and presentingthe world with possibilities for trans experience,
you know, trans life. Youknow, I didn't have those growing up,
And every time we tell a storyin media, and we allow audiences
to get to know a trans characterand to imagine their life and to imagine
(05:31):
life with trans people. It justmakes the world more possible for us overall,
you know. So a big movementin this quest for transvisibility has been
to work against these tropes of traumaand isolation that have kept us so,
you know, traumatized, It's obvious, but the trauma and isolation that that
(05:56):
keeps repeating itself is what I wantto say, because the stories we tell
become the stories we tell ourselves,you know. And so we're out here
in Hollywood trying to tell a differentstory than the like you know, radical
political right is trying to tell.But unfortunately we have neither of us will
(06:17):
have succeeded, I think in mobilizingthe basis enough to make a stand which
to me would look like, youknow, passage of the Quality Act and
National Protection for LGBTQ people. Well, it was very interesting. We both
come from a very conservative environment andour paths have crossed and our conservative upbringing
(06:41):
fun fact or not so fun fact. We both grew up in South Orange
County. We both went to Santamargarit At Catholic High School, I'm definitely
in the closet until college. Youwere traoblazing as the nuns were looking on
horrified. I'm so glad you werethere to witness it, and I'm I'm
so glad you are free now.But you know, it's funny because I've
(07:05):
knew in high school. I knewof two openly gay students, and that
was it. Some of us werechattering in the back, you know,
in the dark, literally about certainfeelings, and there were certain students like
yourself that were open and vocal.That confidence just never struck me. It
(07:25):
never struck me to defend that communityor even accepted about myself. Can you
share a little bit about what youwent through in high school, because that
was its own trauma experience that couldhave and has definitely killed our community.
Yeah, I mean I narrowly escapedand narrowly survived. You know. I
(07:46):
ended up dropping out of the highschool we went to, and then was
institutionalized for a while and a verygirl interrupted sort of way because no one
knew what to do with me.And then went to a like independent study
for a bit, and then wentto the um South Orange County High School
of the Arts, where I endedup like um having to start a riot
(08:11):
because they wouldn't let me create apride club. And I got more,
actually, I got the discrimination Ifaced that like harassment was so much worse
at UM that high school where wherewhere Um the Arts High School was like
based in another school in Dana Point. Um Dania Hills High School was like
so much worse than Santa margrated forme and UM and I ended up non
(08:33):
graduating from there either. So Idropped out of another school after fighting tooth
and nail to try to get thisclub off the ground. But UM got
my like uh high school proficiency fromfrom horizons. UM famed horizons. You
know. Um it was stuff oflegends. I mean, I I roll
(08:54):
hard for for for what I repand where I come from. You know.
So um if you are a childof like a continuation school, like
you were my people, you know. Um. But anyway, yeah,
so that was sort of my Orangemy Orange County life. And the biggest
thing was is that I refused tobe silent about who I was and also
(09:18):
refused to be shamed for who Iwas. And this was before I even
knew how to identify as trains.I was just them. You know I
was gay and fem um and uhyeah, it like it was knocked down,
drag out journey, you know,but um, I made it and
I and I'm I'm one of thelucky ones. Now where did you even
(09:41):
get that confidence though at such ayoung age, obviously without the support of
the school system, um, piers, I know how mean students were that
that I knew from our our sharedcircle. Where did that confidence kind of
come from? Were you always astrong wheeled person? Um? You know?
Was it a facade that got youthrough or how did that manifest itself?
(10:05):
I think I knew from a reallyyoung age that I had a right
to be here and that I hadsomething important to say, and that I
(10:26):
I I had like a destiny,you know, I like knew and I
also knew something was wrong, youknow, um, and I and I
refuse to accept that it could onlybe wrong with me and so um,
although I did really feel like somethingwas wrong with me. Um, But
uh yeah, you know, sometimesit was a bit of thicket till you
(10:48):
make it. I mean a lotof time, I guess, but even
then, the like the like tenacityto keep faking it till I make it
still to this day. I thinkcomes from a belief that, like,
I have a lot of love togive, and that love is sacred and
should be blasted out as far aswide impossible. And for someone to tell
(11:11):
me that my love that I wantto shine is unacceptable or dangerous is like
a lie, and I don't Iwon't stand for it. And basically came
down to that, Now, Iknow you took that confidence to New York,
(11:31):
and I want to know, comingfrom OC and then going to a
place like New York, what weresome of the realities of making that life
switch. What was the hardest toget used to, What was an utter
enjoyment to discover about New York life. Well, there was this whole other
journey that happened between Soco and NewYork, and I'll make it brief,
(11:54):
but basically, I went to likeCollege in Santa Cruz, which is like
the redwood forest and the ocean andthe most amazing liberal place in the world,
and was able to find myself andbe myself and and change my name
and claim my identity. And thenI spent a number of years between like
Riverside in La and and it's kindof Central Mexico, studying ritual dance and
(12:18):
like really trying to figure out mybody and my spirituality. And then I
went to New York. So Ihad like gone on this whole other kind
of academic shamanistic dance journey that sortof like rooted me into who I was
(12:39):
before I even transitioned. But Ihad already like I claimed my identity,
I knew my name, but Iwas like, I gotta figure some stuff
out. And so I went deepinto that journey. And then when I
moved to New York, I waslike, Okay, I think, like
the world is ready for me,and I'm ready for the world, you
know. And it was really interestingbecause I was like trying to prove myself
(13:01):
as a director and like make myway in as a as a as a
director developing new musicals. And itwasn't until I was going to transition and
I was like, I don't,like, I don't know how to afford
this. It's like so crazy.And I was like, I think,
I'm just gonna crowdfund this, andhow am I gonna crowdfund this? I'm
gonna I'm gonna make a show.I'm gonna reach out to my people because
basically I was like one, likeone of the first people in like the
(13:24):
Broadway community to transition, and soI was like, people are gonna have
so many questions, let me justanswer them upfront in a show. And
that was the first time I hadgotten on stage, and like, I
don't know, over a decade,you know, and um, and then
suddenly I was like, wait,am I an actress? Am I?
Am I not a director right now? Am I? Am I actually going
(13:46):
to become an actress the thing maybeI always wanted but never thought I could
be. And that's what happened.Now. What was your first exposure to
the trans community personally? UM?I had a really small like pod of
(14:13):
trans friends in Santa Cruz that,like, I didn't run in the same
circles with all the time, likewe were, but we all had like
the chin nod to each other.It was a very small group and it
was like one other trans woman whowas a student at the school who's a
couple of years old than me,and then UM and then a couple of
trans guys and we were like soahead of our time because it was like
(14:35):
nineteen ninety nine, you know,and it was like it was like the
end of the world and the endof the millennium and and and we were
like these like young trans pioneers likeand it was like, you know,
it was just um, yeah,I think that it was just a different
(14:56):
time for for UM and trans community. You know. So that was sort
of my first my way in UM. Yeah. I wish I could tell
you like one story about one personat one time. But right now,
what I'm really vibing is this communityof like young gender queer and trans folk
(15:18):
who I mean literally we were youknow, yeah, we were teenagers or
maybe early twenties, and and itwas the dawn of the queer youth movement
and I was a part of that. And then now we were like you
know, um yeah, we wereclaiming like I was on the board of
directors of UM Glisten at the time, and I was the first like trans
(15:41):
youth board member, you know,and that was like twenty twenty six years
ago now or something, so twentythree years ago, what do you?
Wow? Wow? So you knowwhat I mean? Yeah, I mean
that far back and where everything hascome from even in two decades is insane.
All the hard work, all thetrailblazing that people like you have done.
(16:06):
Um. Now, having been anactor behind the scenes as no writer
director in film screen and seeing what'sgoing on behind the scene, though,
what is Hollywood getting right about transreputation or representation? And what does Hollywood
still need to get right? Um? Okay, so what have we gotten
(16:29):
right? I think people have realizedthat trans people need to play trans people.
So I think I hope that we'llsee now the end of the practice
of six people playing trans people.I hope that can fill over into disability
representation. We'll see and hell evenlike gay and lesbian representation. Um.
(16:52):
But uh and by representation what thefuck? So um anyway, But also,
I think we're getting right that transpeople exist in all fabrics of story
telling, because we exist in allfabrics of life. So I think that
you're starting to see trans characters andtrans people pop up in like, you
(17:17):
know, different levels of like youknow, hierarchy in terms of like series
regular, guest star whenever that shit. But also just like it's not always
about them being trans. Sometimes transpeople are just getting cast to play a
day player in a show, ora guest star role or a series regular
that isn't about their transnist, youknow, they have a whole arc and
(17:37):
it's just them living a life.So we're starting to see some of that,
like, you know, real integration, not tokenism. Where I think
we need to work is like representation. First of all, one is not
(17:59):
enough. That's like the actual rule. They don't tell you that when they
say representation matters, but one isnot enough. So that means like any
time you're in a meeting, oranytime you're like writing a script, or
any time you're like casting a show, like one of anyone isn't actually diversity,
you know, because you need tobe able to show like multip multiplicity
(18:22):
within identity to really that's what diversityis actually about. So so where I
think we need to grow is alsothat representation doesn't just mean like what you
see on the screen. Representation meanssorry, my series just like went off.
Representation also means everyone who contributes tothe thing that is being seen,
(18:51):
you know, because there are alot of eyes and ears and hands and
notes on a project before it getsout to the public. So if there
art trans people in the room atevery level of that conversation, then no
matter what is on the screen mighthave been vetted in a way that's less
than authentic, and that is aconcern. Um So Shakina. When I
(19:15):
look at everything that you do,it's like Comma coma Comma writer, director,
actor, director, you know,everything stage screen. How do you
know what to focus on career wise? That's a great question too, I
have, you know, I liketo think of it like, um,
(19:40):
the metaphor I use is a soundmixer who is like, you know,
there's a concert, right and everyone'slike like an orchestra's playing or band or
whatever, and the person at theboard has a finger on every fader,
you know, moving up the baseand treble and bringing up the drums and
like bringing down the base or whateverit is that that you're mixing, you
(20:03):
know. And so I I havea vision, right which is to like
being my care bear stair as faras one im possible. I can talk
about just like blast blasted out thereand and so that's my agreement with the
universe. But I don't always getto dictate the form it takes, you
know, And so I try alot of forms, and I like try
a lot of things. And Ihave a lot of ideas for plays and
(20:26):
movies and musicals and TV shows andon. All I can do is ride
all those faders until I like findthe right balance, and then I'm like,
Okay, I can bring this oneup. I can bring this one
up here, here, here,We're going to work on this right now,
you know. And then like I'mlike, oh, I'm really missing
performing, so I need to bringmy performing so oh but like I'm being
called or right now, I guessI'll go right. So that's so it's
(20:48):
just you know, keeping a literalbalance. Well, A very exciting recent
project, of course, is theQuantum Leap Opportunity with NBAC huge Um.
You know, we got to seethe finished product, we got to see
all the positive media for it,but I can't imagine it was It was
all just a walk in the park. I know there's a lot of red
tape that goes on, especially onnetwork TV. What were some of the
(21:11):
biggest challenges in getting the episode madein the way that you wanted it to
be made. Well, I wantto say that the biggest challenge for me
in getting the episode made was learningto accept all the support from folks who
(21:45):
I anticipated having pushed back from,and then from there figuring out how to
stand up for what really mattered tome in the episode and communicate that and
(22:06):
meet everyone where they were at sowe could do it like collectively and enthusiastically
from the beginning. So once weall got aligned and I realized that I
had like everyone behind my back,you know, then we just like had
to make an episode, you know, a great episode. Now do you
(22:33):
ever get like activist fatigue? Youknow, every interview you do starts off
like like what we've did. It'slike, okay, you know, since
you're a spokesperson, you've done this. You know, you've shown your trailblazing,
you've shown your activism. But doyou ever get that fatigue or you're
just like can we just talk abouthousewives? Or can we talk about my
directing style or my acting style?It always leads with kind of transactivist what
(23:00):
you're doing to advance the trans community, the LGBTQ plus community, which is
great, but that's always the focus. Do you ever like, you know,
I'm a person behind all of thisas well? Yeah? Yeah,
I mean you know, I Iuh, you know, aside from the
the sort of fatigue of the pandemic, I also had a kind of fatigue
(23:23):
from um creating like everything I didCreating Musical Theater Factory and then Transparent the
finale, which sort of like Ipassed MTF onto a new artistic director just
as we like wrapped on Transparent.So it was like, then I had
this this um real uh like healingprocess to go through in order to reclaim
(23:52):
my rest, like my ability torest and and also my um my willingness
to lead again. I actually likehad to get some books and do some
meditation on, you know, howto reframe my relationship to leadership because I
(24:15):
was so exhausted and I was like, I know, I have to get
back on this horse, but Iam tired, you know, And so
I have to how do I honorthat exhaustion and and also prevent that exhaustion
in the future, but now learnto rest in a more like sustainable way
throughout and also find a new wayto lead that is in more in an
(24:40):
updated harmony with who I'm at,who I am and where I'm at I
guess, And so I did getthe did take that time, and now
I'm kind of like back out again. I feel like it's that ed and
flow and and I feel like Imy intention is that as long as I
can carve out those moments of reflectbetween the creative and the activist output I
(25:03):
can continue to serve, you know, Um, and that's what I want
to do. Um. I lovedifficult people. UM. I love that
we saw trans character that was sosassy and and that was the character you
know, you you're talking about transrepresentation as you know, these are these
are these are people we work with, these are you know, it doesn't
have to be as a sad storyall the time. I love that,
(25:26):
loved it. What did you learn, uh, most um about yourself from
doing that show? I mean,I mean that I want to do money,
Yeah, I mean I learned.I learned that I was funny,
you know. Um, I alwaysmade people laugh. UM, but I
never thought of myself as a comedian, you know. And uh and I
(25:47):
was with like some of the bestcomedians in the business, you know,
some of the funniest people on television. And um, and that the fact
that I could hold my own withthem, and that and that what I
the authentic meed that I was bringingis exactly what Lola was. I mean,
you've experienced me in this interview.I like, aside from the hair,
I'm like pretty much the same,you know, so yeah, and
(26:11):
you like and honestly, I mean, what the joy of getting to talk
to you about all this is thefact that like I have been remarkably consistent,
I will say, you know,I have been nothing if not consistent
and persistent manifests Yeah, exactly.All right. We know we're in a
(26:34):
very turbulent time as far as thewar on our community. You putting content
out there now, you cultivating thescripts and directing what people are seeing.
Should we be trying to make moremainstream accessible content to build bridges or is
now the time to push it evenmore? Our political and social agenda and
(26:56):
anywhere we can is the thing Ibelieve more than anything. We all have
a job in the revolution, youknow everyone, So it all has value.
If it is liberatory, you know, if it is truly supporting UM,
the fullest expression UM and of ofI'm just gonna say, people you
(27:22):
know, in love like UM,then then then we ought to figure out
how to make it part of theconversation. So, whether it's like radical
UM, tranny punk rock, separatistum rebellion, or you know, UM,
(27:48):
making sure that there's like a transcharacter in a you know, a
soap opera or something. It's likeacross the board, um we I mean,
and that's only in terms of likethe Hollywood entertainment aspect, you know,
because there's also the roles of peoplewho feel comfortable phone banking and making
(28:12):
phone calls and canvassing and actually knockingon doors, because that is still very
real, and that is just asimportant, if not more important than like
getting in front of a camera sometimes, you know what I'm saying. And
also, you know, I don'twant to discount the importance of spiritual health
(28:34):
because we've come so far in talkingabout mental health and even like sleep hygiene
from the pandemic, Like we've justgotten a lot better at like at like
understanding some of these principles and bringingthem into our our you know, work
life balance whatever that is. Andum, but I think there's also an
(28:55):
aspect in the queer community around spiritualhealth because spirituality and especially the institutions attached
to spirituality, have been used tooppress us for so long and are being
used so loudly and violently now thatqueer people are often divorced from a sense
from their own divinity and a wayto engage with their relationship to the divine
(29:18):
and in communion with each other aroundthe divine, and that's such an important
part of who we are and whatour sexuality and our genders really mean.
And so that restoring that is alsoreally important to me and something I try
to telegraph through my work. Now, do you think the relationship between the
gay and the trans community is gettingbetter? Yeah? I do think it's
(29:45):
getting better. I don't think it'sgetting more. I don't think it's getting
wiser, you know what I'm saying. I don't think we're seeing like Webdom,
you know. I think we're seeinglike okay, like, yeah,
we've learned some acceptance. Um,we like, you know, there's better
relationship. But I'm not seeing likeadvocacy. I'm not saying accomplished ship.
(30:10):
I'm also like, you know,just yeah, I'm I'm waiting for um,
you know, I'm waiting to notbe the loudest voice in the room
when it comes to the rights ofthese trans kids. You know what I
mean? And and uh, youknow, and I really you know,
(30:32):
I spent a considerable portion of mylife, whether I wanted to or not,
as a gay man, you know, and um, and I know
how quickly. I was like bootedfrom the community when I when I you
know, finally stepped into my fullyrealized form and so um and not that
I ever felt like I fitted inthe first place, and I always sort
of had this false advertising thing goingon. But um, but I just
(31:00):
uh, yeah, I think likegay men, um, especially you know,
I'll just say it, like whitegay men are a powerful vocal majority
when it comes to dictating the valuecenter of the movement. Well, and
(31:26):
I can find that to be truestill in entertainment too, you know,
well absolutely, yeah, No,I mean this is everything is you know,
mum, distillation of the other.You know, it's all um,
we recreate the same dynamics at everylevel, and so we have to be
conscious of that in order to avoidyou know, entrenching ourselves in the same
(31:47):
patterns that we're trying to break freefrom. That's the that's the whole point,
you know. So that's why weneed each other because otherwise we just
continue to bifurcate, and then youknow, we we as a community can't
move forward. And you know,and it's just and because there are have
(32:08):
been, especially of late, somany competing essential causes that it's become difficult
to really unite, but I thinkwe must unite around these kids, you
know, like, because we we'reall, no matter who we are,
if we survived to be LGBT adults, we were once LGBT kids, and
(32:31):
we know how dangerous and scary thatis. And those are the people being
attacked children, you know, souh that is that is the thing that
should and the fact that those aretrans children, you know specifically, which
I think makes it easy for alot of LGB people to turn a blind
(32:54):
eye. Unfortunately, that's an ablestphrase. Let me withdraw that it makes
it easy for LGB people to youknow, ignore the cries of their trans
siblings and they're children. Yeah.Well, and I do believe this is
from my experience with the younger andI mean younger generations that the ages you're
(33:15):
talking about, you know, they'rethey're growing up with new terms that we
didn't have when we have growing up. They're growing up with representation on screen
because of people like you, andI think that they have a healthier relationship
not just in the LGBT q UM, but you know, with with with
with the straight community as well.These kids are not having the same issues
that we've they're not having the issuesthat these politicians are trying to not.
(33:39):
Um No. And that's what's wildis that it's parents. It's it's politicians
and ignorant parents pumping fear into kidswho otherwise are actually pretty down, you
know, like most kids of thisgeneration don't really have a problem with queerness
or or or gender. You know, they're just sort of like, okay,
you do you you know, I'minto what I'm into, you know,
(34:00):
and that's great and we love that. But it is literally sort of
fear mongering and hate being pumped infrom politicians, religious institutions, you know,
visa the ignorant parents, and uhso that's you know, that's the
places where we have to intervene.Quitter person, Shaquino, what what is
(34:25):
your message to the LGBTQ community.Let me think about that, um um.
I want to say, like,um, like, lead with love
(35:00):
and protect each other like ultimately,you know, beautiful. Yeah, no
one else is doing it for us, you know, so we got to
do it for ourselves. I amso proud of you. I'm so proud
(35:20):
that you're from so Cow. I'mso proud that you gave it to the
school system earlier. I'm just soproud of everything that you've done. You
know, I know that we getto see a lot of the successes,
but I also know behind the scenes, there's those shows that don't get made,
there's the auditions that don't book.You know, there's times that we're
just feeling exhausted or tired. Andthe fact that you have whether the storm
and you continue to whether it isa huge inspiration to everyone. Thank you.
(35:46):
That means the world to me andto to like kind of come full
circle with this moment of witnesses justlike so cool and and I really appreciate
it. And who knew two queerkids from Santa Margarita, we're gonna be
doing this right, I know.I just think that's so amazing. We'll
send it to uh to uh doctorGiuliano. Who there you go. Yeah,
(36:09):
that has been my chat with Shaquinaand a fact. You can follow
everything Shakina at Shaquina dot NYC andcheck out my in depth article with her
and the last issue of Metrosource magazineor at metrosource dot com. That's our
episode and I'm your host and leadwriter for Metrosource Alexander Rodriguez. You can
follow me on Instagram at Alexandra ison air Until next time, Stay true
(36:30):
and do you love Happy prid?That has been another Metrosource Mini Like Shared,
Subscribe on your favorite podcast player andcheck out the latest issue of Metrosource
magazine on newstands or online at metrosourcedot com. Follow us on Facebook,
Instagram at metrosource and on Twitter atmetrosourts mat Until next time,
This is Metrosource Mini, the officialpodcast to Metrosource magazine and home of short
form interviews with your favorite personalities fromthe LGBTQ world and beyond. Quick,
fun and informative. It's Metrosource onthe go, out in proud since nineteen
ninety. Hello, this is Metrosourceminis the companion podcast to Metrosource Magazine.
(00:27):
I'm your host Alexander Rodriguez, writerfor Metrosource and queen of the podcast Happy
Pride Better than a Roman. Michelle'shigh School Reunion reboot picture It a milestone
high school reunion at an ultraconservative Catholichigh school in Orange County, California.
Shaquina Napak class of What we won'tfill in the blank we don't do ages
performer director, writer, producer,artistic director, and activist whose groundbreaking career
(00:51):
has encompassed television, theater, andmusic, with projects on Amazon, Hulu,
Audible, and NBC making television history. Not once, not twice,
spent three times. Sounds like amost successful honoree. Right. Too bad
the high school asked her to leavewhen she was the victim of bullying because
of her identity. As part ofthe LGBTQ community. Not so fun.
Fact, I went to high schoolwith her and didn't say a word.
(01:14):
I was still deep in the closet, even to myself. But I digress.
This multi hyphen and entertainment goddess,Shaquina and Apacs survived those tough years
and went on to become a foundingmember and artistic director of New York's Musical
Theater Factory, developing hundreds of musicals, including the Tonian Poetzer Prize winning A
Strange Loop and her one woman showunabashedly titled Manifest Pussy, to critical and
(01:38):
audience acclaim. For her theater work, she has received the Lily Award,
the True Humanitarian Award from Theater ResourcesUnlimited, and the Beatrice Terry Fellowship Award
from the Drama League. She's hada pivotal role in front of and behind
the camera for the transparent musical finaleWho Lose Difficult People with Billy Eichner,
NBC's connecting and quantum leap, andwhat a leap her life has had.
(02:00):
In this amazing chat, I wasable to reconnect with Shikina as we talked
about it all in her candid andopinionated way, we chatted about her coming
out journey, her first year's movingto New York, getting into the theater
scene, the evolution of the LGBTQcommunity, and media activism, fatigue and
the need for mental rest, makingTV history for the trans community, and
(02:20):
yes, even those early high schoolyears. Check it out and check out
my end up chat with her andMetrosource print and online. Head to metrosource
dot com. All right, Shikida, can you tell me what the hell
is going on in the US.There's this juxtaposition of entertainment that's enjoying a
(02:42):
boom in LGBTQ content, you yourselfhaving made TV history, now what about
three times? And all of this, Yeah, and all of this is
happening right next to these laws thatare forcing our community back into the closet
or even jail. What is thewar on LGBTQ all about? And it's
(03:04):
not being reflected in entertainment. Imean, it's such a weird juxtaposition.
Yeah. I think there's two thingsgoing on that are important to recognize.
The first is that at any momentof you know, liberation, the forces
of darkness will rally hardest against thelight about to break free. And so
(03:30):
because we've had this incredible upswelling oftransvisibility and the possibility for trans young people
to even come out and exist,which is just so worthy of celebration,
it has created a backlash from youknow, a really fringe, unfortunately powerful
(04:00):
vocal group that UM has taken swayover over the majority of a passive,
you know, political base. Um. You know, people are so like,
uh, daunted by um, thepolitical landscape these days that um,
(04:27):
you know, it's they're so dauntedby the political landscape that it's hard it's
hard to notice. I forgive peoplefor not noticing, but it's hard to
notice when such a small percentage ofthe population is being used at such a
(04:48):
massive political scale. UM. It'scertainly, it's certainly terrifying. And you
know there's Oh and I wanted tosay one more thing, sorry, because
the second part of your question wasabout, like, why aren't we seeing
this in entertainment, And it's reallyinteresting because you know, I'm in the
(05:11):
business of imagining trans futures and presentingthe world with possibilities for trans experience,
you know, trans life. Youknow, I didn't have those growing up,
And every time we tell a storyin media, and we allow audiences
to get to know a trans characterand to imagine their life and to imagine
(05:31):
life with trans people. It justmakes the world more possible for us overall,
you know. So a big movementin this quest for transvisibility has been
to work against these tropes of traumaand isolation that have kept us so,
you know, traumatized, It's obvious, but the trauma and isolation that that
(05:56):
keeps repeating itself is what I wantto say, because the stories we tell
become the stories we tell ourselves,you know. And so we're out here
in Hollywood trying to tell a differentstory than the like you know, radical
political right is trying to tell.But unfortunately we have neither of us will
(06:17):
have succeeded, I think in mobilizingthe basis enough to make a stand which
to me would look like, youknow, passage of the Quality Act and
National Protection for LGBTQ people. Well, it was very interesting. We both
come from a very conservative environment andour paths have crossed and our conservative upbringing
(06:41):
fun fact or not so fun fact. We both grew up in South Orange
County. We both went to Santamargarit At Catholic High School, I'm definitely
in the closet until college. Youwere traoblazing as the nuns were looking on
horrified. I'm so glad you werethere to witness it, and I'm I'm
so glad you are free now.But you know, it's funny because I've
(07:05):
knew in high school. I knewof two openly gay students, and that
was it. Some of us werechattering in the back, you know,
in the dark, literally about certainfeelings, and there were certain students like
yourself that were open and vocal.That confidence just never struck me. It
(07:25):
never struck me to defend that communityor even accepted about myself. Can you
share a little bit about what youwent through in high school, because that
was its own trauma experience that couldhave and has definitely killed our community.
Yeah, I mean I narrowly escapedand narrowly survived. You know. I
(07:46):
ended up dropping out of the highschool we went to, and then was
institutionalized for a while and a verygirl interrupted sort of way because no one
knew what to do with me.And then went to a like independent study
for a bit, and then wentto the um South Orange County High School
of the Arts, where I endedup like um having to start a riot
(08:11):
because they wouldn't let me create apride club. And I got more,
actually, I got the discrimination Ifaced that like harassment was so much worse
at UM that high school where wherewhere Um the Arts High School was like
based in another school in Dana Point. Um Dania Hills High School was like
so much worse than Santa margrated forme and UM and I ended up non
(08:33):
graduating from there either. So Idropped out of another school after fighting tooth
and nail to try to get thisclub off the ground. But UM got
my like uh high school proficiency fromfrom horizons. UM famed horizons. You
know. Um it was stuff oflegends. I mean, I I roll
(08:54):
hard for for for what I repand where I come from. You know.
So um if you are a childof like a continuation school, like
you were my people, you know. Um. But anyway, yeah,
so that was sort of my Orangemy Orange County life. And the biggest
thing was is that I refused tobe silent about who I was and also
(09:18):
refused to be shamed for who Iwas. And this was before I even
knew how to identify as trains.I was just them. You know I
was gay and fem um and uhyeah, it like it was knocked down,
drag out journey, you know,but um, I made it and
I and I'm I'm one of thelucky ones. Now where did you even
(09:41):
get that confidence though at such ayoung age, obviously without the support of
the school system, um, piers, I know how mean students were that
that I knew from our our sharedcircle. Where did that confidence kind of
come from? Were you always astrong wheeled person? Um? You know?
Was it a facade that got youthrough or how did that manifest itself?
(10:05):
I think I knew from a reallyyoung age that I had a right
to be here and that I hadsomething important to say, and that I
(10:26):
I I had like a destiny,you know, I like knew and I
also knew something was wrong, youknow, um, and I and I
refuse to accept that it could onlybe wrong with me and so um,
although I did really feel like somethingwas wrong with me. Um, But
uh yeah, you know, sometimesit was a bit of thicket till you
(10:48):
make it. I mean a lotof time, I guess, but even
then, the like the like tenacityto keep faking it till I make it
still to this day. I thinkcomes from a belief that, like,
I have a lot of love togive, and that love is sacred and
should be blasted out as far aswide impossible. And for someone to tell
(11:11):
me that my love that I wantto shine is unacceptable or dangerous is like
a lie, and I don't Iwon't stand for it. And basically came
down to that, Now, Iknow you took that confidence to New York,
(11:31):
and I want to know, comingfrom OC and then going to a
place like New York, what weresome of the realities of making that life
switch. What was the hardest toget used to, What was an utter
enjoyment to discover about New York life. Well, there was this whole other
journey that happened between Soco and NewYork, and I'll make it brief,
(11:54):
but basically, I went to likeCollege in Santa Cruz, which is like
the redwood forest and the ocean andthe most amazing liberal place in the world,
and was able to find myself andbe myself and and change my name
and claim my identity. And thenI spent a number of years between like
Riverside in La and and it's kindof Central Mexico, studying ritual dance and
(12:18):
like really trying to figure out mybody and my spirituality. And then I
went to New York. So Ihad like gone on this whole other kind
of academic shamanistic dance journey that sortof like rooted me into who I was
(12:39):
before I even transitioned. But Ihad already like I claimed my identity,
I knew my name, but Iwas like, I gotta figure some stuff
out. And so I went deepinto that journey. And then when I
moved to New York, I waslike, Okay, I think, like
the world is ready for me,and I'm ready for the world, you
know. And it was really interestingbecause I was like trying to prove myself
(13:01):
as a director and like make myway in as a as a as a
director developing new musicals. And itwasn't until I was going to transition and
I was like, I don't,like, I don't know how to afford
this. It's like so crazy.And I was like, I think,
I'm just gonna crowdfund this, andhow am I gonna crowdfund this? I'm
gonna I'm gonna make a show.I'm gonna reach out to my people because
basically I was like one, likeone of the first people in like the
(13:24):
Broadway community to transition, and soI was like, people are gonna have
so many questions, let me justanswer them upfront in a show. And
that was the first time I hadgotten on stage, and like, I
don't know, over a decade,you know, and um, and then
suddenly I was like, wait,am I an actress? Am I?
Am I not a director right now? Am I? Am I actually going
(13:46):
to become an actress the thing maybeI always wanted but never thought I could
be. And that's what happened.Now. What was your first exposure to
the trans community personally? UM?I had a really small like pod of
(14:13):
trans friends in Santa Cruz that,like, I didn't run in the same
circles with all the time, likewe were, but we all had like
the chin nod to each other.It was a very small group and it
was like one other trans woman whowas a student at the school who's a
couple of years old than me,and then UM and then a couple of
trans guys and we were like soahead of our time because it was like
(14:35):
nineteen ninety nine, you know,and it was like it was like the
end of the world and the endof the millennium and and and we were
like these like young trans pioneers likeand it was like, you know,
it was just um, yeah,I think that it was just a different
(14:56):
time for for UM and trans community. You know. So that was sort
of my first my way in UM. Yeah. I wish I could tell
you like one story about one personat one time. But right now,
what I'm really vibing is this communityof like young gender queer and trans folk
(15:18):
who I mean literally we were youknow, yeah, we were teenagers or
maybe early twenties, and and itwas the dawn of the queer youth movement
and I was a part of that. And then now we were like you
know, um yeah, we wereclaiming like I was on the board of
directors of UM Glisten at the time, and I was the first like trans
(15:41):
youth board member, you know,and that was like twenty twenty six years
ago now or something, so twentythree years ago, what do you?
Wow? Wow? So you knowwhat I mean? Yeah, I mean
that far back and where everything hascome from even in two decades is insane.
All the hard work, all thetrailblazing that people like you have done.
(16:06):
Um. Now, having been anactor behind the scenes as no writer
director in film screen and seeing what'sgoing on behind the scene, though,
what is Hollywood getting right about transreputation or representation? And what does Hollywood
still need to get right? Um? Okay, so what have we gotten
(16:29):
right? I think people have realizedthat trans people need to play trans people.
So I think I hope that we'llsee now the end of the practice
of six people playing trans people.I hope that can fill over into disability
representation. We'll see and hell evenlike gay and lesbian representation. Um.
(16:52):
But uh and by representation what thefuck? So um anyway, But also,
I think we're getting right that transpeople exist in all fabrics of story
telling, because we exist in allfabrics of life. So I think that
you're starting to see trans characters andtrans people pop up in like, you
(17:17):
know, different levels of like youknow, hierarchy in terms of like series
regular, guest star whenever that shit. But also just like it's not always
about them being trans. Sometimes transpeople are just getting cast to play a
day player in a show, ora guest star role or a series regular
that isn't about their transnist, youknow, they have a whole arc and
(17:37):
it's just them living a life.So we're starting to see some of that,
like, you know, real integration, not tokenism. Where I think
we need to work is like representation. First of all, one is not
(17:59):
enough. That's like the actual rule. They don't tell you that when they
say representation matters, but one isnot enough. So that means like any
time you're in a meeting, oranytime you're like writing a script, or
any time you're like casting a show, like one of anyone isn't actually diversity,
you know, because you need tobe able to show like multip multiplicity
(18:22):
within identity to really that's what diversityis actually about. So so where I
think we need to grow is alsothat representation doesn't just mean like what you
see on the screen. Representation meanssorry, my series just like went off.
Representation also means everyone who contributes tothe thing that is being seen,
(18:51):
you know, because there are alot of eyes and ears and hands and
notes on a project before it getsout to the public. So if there
art trans people in the room atevery level of that conversation, then no
matter what is on the screen mighthave been vetted in a way that's less
than authentic, and that is aconcern. Um So Shakina. When I
(19:15):
look at everything that you do,it's like Comma coma Comma writer, director,
actor, director, you know,everything stage screen. How do you
know what to focus on career wise? That's a great question too, I
have, you know, I liketo think of it like, um,
(19:40):
the metaphor I use is a soundmixer who is like, you know,
there's a concert, right and everyone'slike like an orchestra's playing or band or
whatever, and the person at theboard has a finger on every fader,
you know, moving up the baseand treble and bringing up the drums and
like bringing down the base or whateverit is that that you're mixing, you
(20:03):
know. And so I I havea vision, right which is to like
being my care bear stair as faras one im possible. I can talk
about just like blast blasted out thereand and so that's my agreement with the
universe. But I don't always getto dictate the form it takes, you
know, And so I try alot of forms, and I like try
a lot of things. And Ihave a lot of ideas for plays and
(20:26):
movies and musicals and TV shows andon. All I can do is ride
all those faders until I like findthe right balance, and then I'm like,
Okay, I can bring this oneup. I can bring this one
up here, here, here,We're going to work on this right now,
you know. And then like I'mlike, oh, I'm really missing
performing, so I need to bringmy performing so oh but like I'm being
called or right now, I guessI'll go right. So that's so it's
(20:48):
just you know, keeping a literalbalance. Well, A very exciting recent
project, of course, is theQuantum Leap Opportunity with NBAC huge Um.
You know, we got to seethe finished product, we got to see
all the positive media for it,but I can't imagine it was It was
all just a walk in the park. I know there's a lot of red
tape that goes on, especially onnetwork TV. What were some of the
(21:11):
biggest challenges in getting the episode madein the way that you wanted it to
be made. Well, I wantto say that the biggest challenge for me
in getting the episode made was learningto accept all the support from folks who
(21:45):
I anticipated having pushed back from,and then from there figuring out how to
stand up for what really mattered tome in the episode and communicate that and
(22:06):
meet everyone where they were at sowe could do it like collectively and enthusiastically
from the beginning. So once weall got aligned and I realized that I
had like everyone behind my back,you know, then we just like had
to make an episode, you know, a great episode. Now do you
(22:33):
ever get like activist fatigue? Youknow, every interview you do starts off
like like what we've did. It'slike, okay, you know, since
you're a spokesperson, you've done this. You know, you've shown your trailblazing,
you've shown your activism. But doyou ever get that fatigue or you're
just like can we just talk abouthousewives? Or can we talk about my
directing style or my acting style?It always leads with kind of transactivist what
(23:00):
you're doing to advance the trans community, the LGBTQ plus community, which is
great, but that's always the focus. Do you ever like, you know,
I'm a person behind all of thisas well? Yeah? Yeah,
I mean you know, I Iuh, you know, aside from the
the sort of fatigue of the pandemic, I also had a kind of fatigue
(23:23):
from um creating like everything I didCreating Musical Theater Factory and then Transparent the
finale, which sort of like Ipassed MTF onto a new artistic director just
as we like wrapped on Transparent.So it was like, then I had
this this um real uh like healingprocess to go through in order to reclaim
(23:52):
my rest, like my ability torest and and also my um my willingness
to lead again. I actually likehad to get some books and do some
meditation on, you know, howto reframe my relationship to leadership because I
(24:15):
was so exhausted and I was like, I know, I have to get
back on this horse, but Iam tired, you know, And so
I have to how do I honorthat exhaustion and and also prevent that exhaustion
in the future, but now learnto rest in a more like sustainable way
throughout and also find a new wayto lead that is in more in an
(24:40):
updated harmony with who I'm at,who I am and where I'm at I
guess, And so I did getthe did take that time, and now
I'm kind of like back out again. I feel like it's that ed and
flow and and I feel like Imy intention is that as long as I
can carve out those moments of reflectbetween the creative and the activist output I
(25:03):
can continue to serve, you know, Um, and that's what I want
to do. Um. I lovedifficult people. UM. I love that
we saw trans character that was sosassy and and that was the character you
know, you you're talking about transrepresentation as you know, these are these
are these are people we work with, these are you know, it doesn't
have to be as a sad storyall the time. I love that,
(25:26):
loved it. What did you learn, uh, most um about yourself from
doing that show? I mean,I mean that I want to do money,
Yeah, I mean I learned.I learned that I was funny,
you know. Um, I alwaysmade people laugh. UM, but I
never thought of myself as a comedian, you know. And uh and I
(25:47):
was with like some of the bestcomedians in the business, you know,
some of the funniest people on television. And um, and that the fact
that I could hold my own withthem, and that and that what I
the authentic meed that I was bringingis exactly what Lola was. I mean,
you've experienced me in this interview.I like, aside from the hair,
I'm like pretty much the same,you know, so yeah, and
(26:11):
you like and honestly, I mean, what the joy of getting to talk
to you about all this is thefact that like I have been remarkably consistent,
I will say, you know,I have been nothing if not consistent
and persistent manifests Yeah, exactly.All right. We know we're in a
(26:34):
very turbulent time as far as thewar on our community. You putting content
out there now, you cultivating thescripts and directing what people are seeing.
Should we be trying to make moremainstream accessible content to build bridges or is
now the time to push it evenmore? Our political and social agenda and
(26:56):
anywhere we can is the thing Ibelieve more than anything. We all have
a job in the revolution, youknow everyone, So it all has value.
If it is liberatory, you know, if it is truly supporting UM,
the fullest expression UM and of ofI'm just gonna say, people you
(27:22):
know, in love like UM,then then then we ought to figure out
how to make it part of theconversation. So, whether it's like radical
UM, tranny punk rock, separatistum rebellion, or you know, UM,
(27:48):
making sure that there's like a transcharacter in a you know, a
soap opera or something. It's likeacross the board, um we I mean,
and that's only in terms of likethe Hollywood entertainment aspect, you know,
because there's also the roles of peoplewho feel comfortable phone banking and making
(28:12):
phone calls and canvassing and actually knockingon doors, because that is still very
real, and that is just asimportant, if not more important than like
getting in front of a camera sometimes, you know what I'm saying. And
also, you know, I don'twant to discount the importance of spiritual health
(28:34):
because we've come so far in talkingabout mental health and even like sleep hygiene
from the pandemic, Like we've justgotten a lot better at like at like
understanding some of these principles and bringingthem into our our you know, work
life balance whatever that is. Andum, but I think there's also an
(28:55):
aspect in the queer community around spiritualhealth because spirituality and especially the institutions attached
to spirituality, have been used tooppress us for so long and are being
used so loudly and violently now thatqueer people are often divorced from a sense
from their own divinity and a wayto engage with their relationship to the divine
(29:18):
and in communion with each other aroundthe divine, and that's such an important
part of who we are and whatour sexuality and our genders really mean.
And so that restoring that is alsoreally important to me and something I try
to telegraph through my work. Now, do you think the relationship between the
gay and the trans community is gettingbetter? Yeah? I do think it's
(29:45):
getting better. I don't think it'sgetting more. I don't think it's getting
wiser, you know what I'm saying. I don't think we're seeing like Webdom,
you know. I think we're seeinglike okay, like, yeah,
we've learned some acceptance. Um,we like, you know, there's better
relationship. But I'm not seeing likeadvocacy. I'm not saying accomplished ship.
(30:10):
I'm also like, you know,just yeah, I'm I'm waiting for um,
you know, I'm waiting to notbe the loudest voice in the room
when it comes to the rights ofthese trans kids. You know what I
mean? And and uh, youknow, and I really you know,
(30:32):
I spent a considerable portion of mylife, whether I wanted to or not,
as a gay man, you know, and um, and I know
how quickly. I was like bootedfrom the community when I when I you
know, finally stepped into my fullyrealized form and so um and not that
I ever felt like I fitted inthe first place, and I always sort
of had this false advertising thing goingon. But um, but I just
(31:00):
uh, yeah, I think likegay men, um, especially you know,
I'll just say it, like whitegay men are a powerful vocal majority
when it comes to dictating the valuecenter of the movement. Well, and
(31:26):
I can find that to be truestill in entertainment too, you know,
well absolutely, yeah, No,I mean this is everything is you know,
mum, distillation of the other.You know, it's all um,
we recreate the same dynamics at everylevel, and so we have to be
conscious of that in order to avoidyou know, entrenching ourselves in the same
(31:47):
patterns that we're trying to break freefrom. That's the that's the whole point,
you know. So that's why weneed each other because otherwise we just
continue to bifurcate, and then youknow, we we as a community can't
move forward. And you know,and it's just and because there are have
(32:08):
been, especially of late, somany competing essential causes that it's become difficult
to really unite, but I thinkwe must unite around these kids, you
know, like, because we we'reall, no matter who we are,
if we survived to be LGBT adults, we were once LGBT kids, and
(32:31):
we know how dangerous and scary thatis. And those are the people being
attacked children, you know, souh that is that is the thing that
should and the fact that those aretrans children, you know specifically, which
I think makes it easy for alot of LGB people to turn a blind
(32:54):
eye. Unfortunately, that's an ablestphrase. Let me withdraw that it makes
it easy for LGB people to youknow, ignore the cries of their trans
siblings and they're children. Yeah.Well, and I do believe this is
from my experience with the younger andI mean younger generations that the ages you're
(33:15):
talking about, you know, they'rethey're growing up with new terms that we
didn't have when we have growing up. They're growing up with representation on screen
because of people like you, andI think that they have a healthier relationship
not just in the LGBT q UM, but you know, with with with
with the straight community as well.These kids are not having the same issues
that we've they're not having the issuesthat these politicians are trying to not.
(33:39):
Um No. And that's what's wildis that it's parents. It's it's politicians
and ignorant parents pumping fear into kidswho otherwise are actually pretty down, you
know, like most kids of thisgeneration don't really have a problem with queerness
or or or gender. You know, they're just sort of like, okay,
you do you you know, I'minto what I'm into, you know,
(34:00):
and that's great and we love that. But it is literally sort of
fear mongering and hate being pumped infrom politicians, religious institutions, you know,
visa the ignorant parents, and uhso that's you know, that's the
places where we have to intervene.Quitter person, Shaquino, what what is
(34:25):
your message to the LGBTQ community.Let me think about that, um um.
I want to say, like,um, like, lead with love
(35:00):
and protect each other like ultimately,you know, beautiful. Yeah, no
one else is doing it for us, you know, so we got to
do it for ourselves. I amso proud of you. I'm so proud
(35:20):
that you're from so Cow. I'mso proud that you gave it to the
school system earlier. I'm just soproud of everything that you've done. You
know, I know that we getto see a lot of the successes,
but I also know behind the scenes, there's those shows that don't get made,
there's the auditions that don't book.You know, there's times that we're
just feeling exhausted or tired. Andthe fact that you have whether the storm
and you continue to whether it isa huge inspiration to everyone. Thank you.
(35:46):
That means the world to me andto to like kind of come full
circle with this moment of witnesses justlike so cool and and I really appreciate
it. And who knew two queerkids from Santa Margarita, we're gonna be
doing this right, I know.I just think that's so amazing. We'll
send it to uh to uh doctorGiuliano. Who there you go. Yeah,
(36:09):
that has been my chat with Shaquinaand a fact. You can follow
everything Shakina at Shaquina dot NYC andcheck out my in depth article with her
and the last issue of Metrosource magazineor at metrosource dot com. That's our
episode and I'm your host and leadwriter for Metrosource Alexander Rodriguez. You can
follow me on Instagram at Alexandra ison air Until next time, Stay true
(36:30):
and do you love Happy prid?That has been another Metrosource Mini Like Shared,
Subscribe on your favorite podcast player andcheck out the latest issue of Metrosource
magazine on newstands or online at metrosourcedot com. Follow us on Facebook,
Instagram at metrosource and on Twitter atmetrosourts mat Until next time,
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