Episode 332: The E-Men: Inside The NYPD’s Emergency Service Unit Rich Miller (Volume 48)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're listening to the Mike Did You Even? Podcast, hosted
by media personality and consultant Mike Gloge.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh yeah, we got all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
You're listening to the em Inside. The NYPD's an emergency
service unit. It's good to be back. It's been a while.
As I was telling our producer, producer Vick Off the
air and tonight's guest still Introduce in a moment, we
took the summer off pretty much. We took all of
July and August off to recharge focus some of the projects,
mainly the book Good Folks, Mad City Life on the
Edge of the FDN Y and NYPD, my first book

(01:24):
that I released, which was a trip and a half
to say the least. It was a lot of fun
and it's been a very rewarding process. We've sold over
two hundred copies of that, which I'm very thrilled about.
Of that particular project and some other ones going on
as well. But it's good to be back. We did
miss you, guys. We did need a break, but we
certainly enjoyed doing Mike the Newhaven. So to be back

(01:44):
with all of you this evening is great. We have
a great rest to rest guests rather to bring the
show back, and if you haven't checked out the previous episodes,
you had a whole summer to catch up, So go
back to the archive if you can, and we're gonna
build upon what we've built in the previous months and
years with some new guests, some new shows in the
ensuing months as we round out twenty twenty four tonight's

(02:05):
volume forty eight of the e Men inside the NYPD's
Emergency Service Unit. In this episode three hundred and thirty
two of the Mike the New Even Podcast, I did
want to mention this because this happened over the summer
before we run the advertisements and get into tonight's show
with our guest too introduce in a moment, But there's
a sad loss in the su family. So Rob Savori,

(02:26):
who I had the chance of meeting a couple of
times down at Floyd Bennettfield. Very nice man, very nice guy.
His brother's currently in the Emergency Service Unit, and his father,
Bob Sivor, he was a world renowned e man in
the Emergency Service Unit, primarily in Truck one. Back in July,
we lost Rob. Unfortunately, Rob took his own life and
nobody saw it coming. It was very shocking, as any

(02:49):
sudden death is no matter the cause. But I just
wanted to take a second and just mention and again
I didn't have the pleasure of knowing Rob as deeply
as other people did, but always, like I said, a
very very nice man in my time interacting with him
was always a pleasure to be around. At Floyd bennett
Field had a quiet way about him, didn't really bring
a lot of attention to himself, went about his job
in a very understated, under the radar kind of way,

(03:11):
but always got the job done. And there was a
lot of great stories that after his death I got
to hear about. And I know it's been a couple
months now, but just wanted to send my condolences to
Savory family. And Rob was a good man who again
you know what, if you're struggling, whatever it is, reach out.
You know there's always someone that wants to listen, always
someone that wants to help him. We certainly wish Rob
was still here. We do miss him, So my condolence

(03:33):
is to the Savory family. On that note, we'll I'll run
the advertisements of the first thing is MC Media Editing
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And of course we also have Billy Ryan, who's back
in the fold wild run. As at right now, the
mic Thing Newapen podcast is proudly sponsored and supported by
the Ryan Investigative Group. If you need an elite PI
look no further than the elite Ryan Investigative Group, which

(04:38):
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his career in the Detective Bureau, most notably in the
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(05:01):
that you see here. Again, if you need a PI,
look no further than Bill Ryan and the Ryan Investigative.
A proud supporter and sponsor of the Mike de Nwavin podcast.
Thanks to Bill, I'll do the intro in a moment
before I forget, because Seth Gar wanted me to mention
this for those of you not aware by now. There
will be the nine to eleven ceremonies down at Truck
two in Harlem coming up this Wednesday, so unfortunately I

(05:23):
won't be there. I have work obligations that I could
not change. So last year I had the chance to
go down to two Truck and see the guys, which
was great. But if you're going to be in the
area swing by two truck if you can, along with
the other ESU trucks. It was mentioned Chief Amon will
be there amongst a few other prominent guests with a
deep attachment to the NYPD and the Emergency Service Unit
as a whole, and you can contact Seth and I

(05:44):
believe you can also contact Antitukovich, who is also in
charge of putting that together. All right. My next guest
was involved in public service in different forms over the
course of three decades. It began in the United States
Marine Corps as a military police officer from nineteen seventy
nine until nineteen eighty three, after that interesting transition, to
say the least, as a bodyguard to the royal family
of Jordan and the Shah of Iran's family as well,

(06:07):
before transitioning into law enforcement, originally with Westchester County Corrections
and then the NYPD. In nineteen eighty eight, was the
PBA Rookie of the Year, received numerous commendations over the
course of his career, and it be in nineteen ninety
three where he'd make the leap into the Emergency Service Unit,
where he spent the remainder of his career, going to
many big jobs along the way, as we will certainly

(06:27):
discuss tonight in great detail. He retired in twenty eleven
as a detective second grade. Of course, as you know
most of the members of the su R detective specialist,
and that is an appropriate title considering what they have
to do on a day in and day out basis,
and that for this volume forty eight of the Event
inside the NYPD's Emergency Service Unit and our first show
back in the back half of twenty twenty four is

(06:49):
retired NYPD detective an Emergency Service Unit member, Rich Miller. Rich, Welcome,
how are you? Thank you for having me Ke, thanks
for being here. Good to see you too, and thank
you for making the time this evening. Just a quick
shout out to our friends tuning in, Christian Williams, John Costello,
Christian Flood himself retired YPD detective as well. Steve Virod
will mention you again if I haven't mentioned you already.

(07:09):
My sister's watching as well, and of course somebody who's
still getting it done in the s U and Truck
ten as we speak, and that's mister Stephan Ocus who's
tuning in tonight as well and real good to see
all you guys. We love Steve of course very much.
So before we get into everything involving your career, tell
me where did it all begin for you, Rich? Where
did you grow up?

Speaker 2 (07:27):
I was born in Cold Spring, York, across across the
Rover from West Point, and I grew up in the
Peachgill area, mostly so upstate.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Were you surrounded. Did you have any family in any
form of civil service early on? Or was it television
that attracted you to the job. What was it that
interested you early?

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Uh? Not not in service with law enforcement. But I
had a lot of uncles who are Marines, Navy Army,
so it was a tough choice to make, and I
chose the Marine Corps after I graduated multip Pantis High
School actually in Peakskill, New York.

Speaker 1 (08:03):
We're talking with Rich Miller here volume forty eight PM
and inside the NYPD's Emergency Service. And of course, for
those of you in the chat on YouTube, particularly the
super chat is available and if you're watching on YouTube
and LinkedIn and you have a question for Rich, throw
it in the chat. I'll make sure I highlighted at
the appropriate time. So you said it was a tough
choice for a variety of reasons, and I can imagine
what those reasons were. But ultimately, what made you pick

(08:25):
the Marines? What was it that sealed that particular deal
for you?

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Well, I guess, yeah, I was looking at the military
police field and I I guess I just wanted to
get off the streets in New York. I'll get off
the streets and peak skill and stay out of trouble. College.
I played football and across in high school, but I
just wasn't my direction, and so I followed the law

(08:54):
enforcement career in that That's how I started.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, and then well, in.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Alabama third Police School, I was fortunate enough to be
able to pick. When I graduated from the school, I
was in a top ten percent, so I was able
to pick Camp Penalton, California, where I made my first
gun caller as a nineteen year old kid.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
And that's the thing. A lot of people don't understand
the scope of the military police. It's an interesting sub
unit within a larger unit. So we'll get to that
gun collar in a second. But for those that are
not familiar with it, how does the military police concept work?
Where can you patrol? What is the jurisdiction.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, basically, as an MP, Camp Penalton, we have highways
that run through and long stretch of the roadway highways
on the base itself, so you could be running radar,
you could be doing an investigation at a crime scene.
As a young MP. You could also you work the

(09:51):
gates as well, watching cars coming in and out, checking
them in and and on the crimes and the housing
areas on basis. Well, some housing areas in Camp Penalton
were off base too and we had we would actually
have to patrol those as well, so we would work
with that at that time. Ocean Side PD and San
Mateo PD and Half Point Highway Patrol.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
So that brings us to that first gun collar again
nineteen years old. What's the story behind this one?

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, I turned out a roll call for four to
twelve and I was assigned to christ Nita's Gate, which
is a one man operation up there, and the Christiana's
areas were recon. Marine recon are stationed in and out
of that gate gets pretty busy at a tour chains too,
so we were just like in the NYPD, you're off

(10:40):
center of the major traffic times. So when I got
up there, I was roll call. They had said we
were looking for a car, and I believe it was
Papa Juliet Bravo. Three point fifty was the plate number
yellow Cutless Supreme with a white vinyl top, And in
high school I had a four forty tools Bill which

(11:02):
was golden color white convertible, so I knew what a
Cutless Supreme looked like. And it was a Marine sergeant
and two other Marines were going around the base picking
up hitchhikers, usually on payday and taking them off base
and robbing them. So they were last seen going off base,
so I was expecting if they came my way, they

(11:23):
would be coming on base. I was doing traffic and
standing out in the middle of the roadway outside the gatehouse,
traffic going in and traffic going out, and I was waving,
saluting the officers and waving be enlisted through if they
had the proper sticker identification on their vehicle. And I

(11:45):
saw traffic was heavy coming out, and about four or
five cars back, I seen what looked like that Countless
Supreme coming close. So I held up traffic coming in,
I put my hands up traffic going out and held
them all up and in one by one. I kept
moving the vehicles in and out and until I got

(12:05):
to like one car in front of the car was
looking at I walked around the car that I stopped first,
as if I was checking that car out. I gave
no indication I was interested in the car behind him.
As I walked around, I stepped back a little bit
and I in the car. Car door window was open
the driver's side. I pulled my forty five out and

(12:26):
pointed it right at him and said, don't move, put
your hands on the dashboard, palms facing up. And he
kept saying easy marine, easy marine, as a sergeant would right.
And I was pretty nervous, but I was able to
a boot lieutenant they called the time were with the
butter bar lieutenant gold bar, that's the first rank of lieutenants.

(12:50):
And he ran up to me and says, what do
you got, marine? What do you got marine? And I said,
I think these are the guys that are going around
base robbing people. And that's when they lit up too,
like no, no, that's not all us, that's and I said,
calm down, come down, and he said what do you
need me to do? And I said, could you run
over the gate guard? Guard shock and put it over
the radio that I'm seeking assistance. Well I don't know

(13:11):
how he put it over, but I had assistance from
Sam Mateo, PD, California Highway Patrol and MPs from all
over the base that we're on regular patrol, and vehicles
had responded. But by that time I had all three
of them laid out on the ground with the help
of the young lieutenant, and that was my first gun calling.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
It's quite the story, you know. And again, were these
members of the service that were going around committing these robberies?
They were and they were yeah, yeah, a lot of
dishonor in that, to say the least, but a good
job and safe job too. And man, I'm sure that
backup came quickly. But many guys have told me stories
about similar stops over the years where even if it's
thirty seconds they arrive, it feels like forever. It's got

(13:55):
to be the longest thirty seconds per minute of your
life because you just don't know and anything can happen
in that period of time. But thankfully these guys cooperated,
and I guess the key is, as has been explained
a lot in this program, maintain control of the situation,
you maintain control the situation as you did nine times
out of ten, it'll go well. Yes, yeah, I certainly
did there, And that brings us to an interesting transition.

(14:16):
So eighty three brings your time in the Marine Corps
as a police officer, at least in the Marine Corps
to an end. And eighty four is when you transition
into being the bodyguard. As we mentioned the introduction to
first the royal family of Jordan. So how does one,
especially in his early twenties at that time, get a
job like that? Because that's that's an insane I'd say
this in a good way. That's a crazy assignment to have,

(14:37):
especially being so young.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, it was the best way to put it is, Well,
let me back it up a little bit. Grow My
partner and my first partner, the NYPD, we grew up together.
We were in the Marines together, we were bodyguards together.
But funny story about it is growing up, his father's
brother was married to my father's sister. Growing up, we

(15:02):
also were first cousins until one day were sitting in
the barracks and we started talking with a bunch of
other guys and we looked at each other and wait
a minute. We're not really first cousins or blood cousins.
We were just related by marriage. But we were best friends.
So literally, I was just talking about for Marine Vietnam
veteran the other day, talking about it. From the sandbox

(15:23):
of the childhood to the sandbox of the Marine Corps,
we were together. And when I left the Marine Corps,
he was still active for about a few more months.
But after he got out, he went down for an
interview with MVM International Security in DC and he used
me as a reference. And that company has had State
Department contracts, so they do background checks on the references

(15:49):
as well, so that reference being that reference, they had
called me up and asked me if I was interested
in the job too, and I said, only if Charlie
gets high. And they said, oh, we hired Charlie. And
I said okay. So I flew down to DC, met
with the with them, and I flew back that night

(16:10):
and on my answer machine it was we hired you,
and you start. You gave me a date start and
we had to go to mvm's International Executive Protection School,
which was run at the BSR Driver Training School in
West West Virginia, Summit Point West Virginia. It was a
pretty cool school to go through. Yeah, riding around a

(16:31):
racetrack and smashing cars, boy barricades and all kinds of
other stuff. It was pretty cool. But for a young guy,
it was great. When I was just all ready to
complete the school, they started giving us our assignments and
I was assigned to Prince Faisal at Brown University and
he was going into a senior year. I yeah, they

(16:56):
wanted young people who with our backgrounds to sit in
class with them if we had to be around them walking,
so if anybody had come in, they would have to
pick us out of the crowd to hurt his royal
highest Prince, Prince Faisil. So anyway, I guess, so let

(17:21):
me back it up a little bit. Faisal was the
son of King of Saying, who was the leader of
country and brother of now King King of Dullah, and
it was a There were a lot of death threats
on the family because the Jordanians were one of the
first countries outside of Egypt to start negotiating peace with

(17:43):
the Israelis, so there were a lot of death threats
on the family. It was a pretty serious job. I
actually became very good friends with Faisal for many years,
and but when he had graduated Brown, I always say,
when I'm in a crowd of people talking, I said, yeah,
tended Brown University in Princeton. When people look at me
and go I did. I started with a senior year

(18:07):
with Faiz led Brown and a freshman year with his cousin,
Prince Gazin. Actually he was a sophomore sophomore. I'm sorry
Charlie was assigned to him right away, but he had
always spent the first year with him. I spent the
second year. I had a great time, became very good
friends with Ghazi, and Gazi was actually Prince of the Tribes,

(18:27):
King of Saint's nephew, so good friend a half for
quite a while. So I guess that that that in itself.
And at that time Ghazi had asked me if I
was interested in starting my own my own company, and uh,
I was young, and I wasn't. I was not really

(18:48):
interested in that, but he made me an offer, and
uh he introduced me to the Shah's family. He was
a Pelvis Chavard son and they liked me. So I
I took that as a subcontract and started a company.
And I also worked for Ivan Boski. If you're familiar
with the stock marketing Ivan Boski was probably the burning

(19:11):
mout off of the eighties. So I worked with all
three of those contracts back in the day.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
Wow, And you know it has to be some form
of I don't I've used the term culture shock a
lot on this show, and I don't want to overdo
it because it gets to the point of redundancy. But
I really can't think of any other term, because, like
I said, just to go back to what I mentioned earlier,
here you are in your twenties at this time, and well,
you know, through watching the news over the years, we've
been somewhat informed about world affairs, but it's not something

(19:38):
that's necessarily pressing on your mind. And here you are
at the forefront with someone that's deeply involved in them.
You know, even if they're not actively involved in the
day to day decisions of the country, you know their
father is in this case, or in the case of Ghazi,
his uncle was. So you're following them around and you know,
at the end of the day, when you can level
with someone on a one on one level, you find
that most of these people, no matter their backgrounds, are

(19:58):
just normal people, just kids going to college. It just
so happens their link is someone very prominent, but it's
it's quite the exposure to get.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah. Yeah, I did have some deep conversations with them
about their world, and mostly it's Ghazi being princes of
the tribes, and and how how the differences in especially
me being a Christian and him being a Muslim, and
how we were able to have great, meaningful conversations. That

(20:27):
was pretty interesting, if I could jump ahead a little bit.
So in two thousand and three, we were we had
a jet well we were we were called to do
a display for a VIP dignitary coming into one police
plaza to meet for the first time ever the head
of state to meet with uh uh Christian Ray Kelly

(20:50):
and Mayor Bloomberg. So we put out the display and
I found out who it was. I told some of
the guys here, I said, yeah, yeah, I know, I
know Dullah and I got a ribbon. I don't know
if I should mention their names, but John Bushing was
one of them. He's you know, yeah, he's a great guy,
and uh, John Scravanni a few of the other guys

(21:12):
giving me a ribbon about Miller says he knows knows
the king. So I was just standing there and and
uh ah, one of the King's bodyguards uh there, their
equivalent to their secret service, had come over and was
walking around looking at what I had on display. I
had all the armory that we had from the A team,
the apprehension team, and he was looking at it, and

(21:33):
I said, well, you know, and Abdullah had come in
and he did the political way walk right through us,
and everyone just kind of stood there like that was it.
So when I was talking to his one of his bodyguards,
I said, you know, we're talking, I said, uh, I
was hoping to meet his majesty uh because I didn't
even get a chance to finish when he said, oh,
his majesty knows a lot about weaponry and and firearms,

(21:56):
I said, I said, I understand that he was a
S He was their SF went to our s schools
in the States. And he goes, oh, you read about
his majesty. I said, well, actually I know his Majesty
and he said really, and he went over to another
guy who happened to be the head of their security
and they both came over and said, could you write

(22:16):
down your information? So I gave it to him and
not thinking much of it. You know, she's a king, right,
And they were in a very important meeting. And when
he went in and then abruptly the heads cutty abruptly
came out told the other guy he came home and said,
his majesty will see when he comes out. I said,
oh wow, that's pretty cool. So after the meeting was over,

(22:37):
the doors opened up. He came out and he turned
and looked and I don't know if you're.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Familiar with Paul Hargrove, great guy, the.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Piece a great guy. He looked over Paul and he
and Sergeant Hargrove, and he kind of like and then
he looked over and he goes rich And I looked
at her. I went ready to go up, your majesty.
It's like he gave me a great called. Right in
front of Ray, Kelly and Keil. I kept looking like
what is going on here? And right behind him was

(23:06):
Mayor Bloomberg, like what is going on here? So we
talked and we you know, we were talking about the
family and however he was doing. And then I took
him around to introduce him to John, who had a
funny story about that was that John had shared with
them quick clock something that we had here that they
didn't have there, and they were very interested in that,

(23:27):
and I think that created a bit of a star.
But I wanted it, and so I think that's that's
I didn't mean to jump ahead and.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Make no listen, this is your story. You tell it
how you see fit. As I often tell guests in
this show. And for those of you who don't know,
John Bushing, who's been on this program a couple of times,
and John Scravan he's been on too, John Bushing was
a medic UH in the SU. He was a tactical
medical emergency service. So just as much as he knows
about police work from his days in the transit rescue
and the SU and the nyp D side post emergen,
he's also very knowledgeable about the medicine component too. So

(23:58):
go back and chat that interview with John if you
haven't seen that one UH from a little while ago.
And I imagine going from that to corrections in Westchester County.
I mean, if you can protect someone of such prominence
like a prince or or two princes in this case,
is as you did, then working the jails is it's
I have to say a cake walk completely. It still

(24:19):
has its dangers, but it's got to be night and
day compared to what you were doing before you can
handle anything after that.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
No, it's uh. I always say it's a great stepping
stone in law enforcement to actually work with cell block
and be responsible for so many inmates and have to
deal with them on a daily basis. It prepared me
for the m P, I think, and I didn't. I
wouldn't say it was a steposome. But when I decided
to leave the bodyguard world, you're living out of a

(24:46):
suitcase when you're in the bodyguard world. So I want
I did want to settle down in New York, and
I did want to take all the police tests. And
the first one to call me is corrections. And I
really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the guys, the great guys
I worked with there. My best experience there, I would say,
is that I had one inmate that was giving. He

(25:07):
was a new guy on the block one West, which
is if you knew one West, it was a one
man block that you had to work and you had
fifteen on one side, fifteen on the other side, and
they had certain times. It can only be out there
could be in the day day room, so you had
one side in the day room and the other side
would be locked in, locked down. And this guy had

(25:28):
come back from court and he was a problem for
a few days with me and another young officer from
the day tour. I was on a forty twelve set,
and so he was just a big problem. So when
I came in, this officer he said, hey, he made court.
The sphinx made court today. He made court today. And
I said, really, no, okay, that's great, that's great. So

(25:50):
he's no longer a problem. That's great for him because
he couldn't handle him. But when he came in from
court later on on my tour, he had he had
had a problem and started giving me a bit of
a problem about you know, he missed date the day room.
Time you missed this, you missed that. And he was
concerned about his package out front. So I had to

(26:12):
make my rounds and make a ring at the back
end of the of the block. And when I came back, well,
I said, here, just go in the day room. When
it's time to get out, I'll call about your package
and we'll find out where it's at. So going the
day room I made my ring. I came to the door.
I said, it's big, you got to come out. And
apparently he was a cousin of Leo and Michael Spakes.

(26:33):
Uh so anyway he uh yeah. I brought him out
into the onto the quarter quarterdeck, which is the front
side of the cell block and uh he I prior
to bring him out, I said to the center guy,
which is there's a center area where for transportation back
and forth and uh inside the jail for solve different

(26:56):
cell blocks. I let him know I might have a problem.
So he said, listen, I know the guy. Okay, if
you do have a problem, unlock your first door. No,
that's that's a no no. But but he said, and
he was a senior guy. He said, unlock it because
if the ring goes off, it's one last door that
they that the squad to get to you. It's like

(27:18):
their ESU inside interior uh from corrections for them to
get you. So it's one last door to get to you.
So I thought, wow, that's a pretty good idea. So
I went to the day room door. I had unlocked
the door first, I said, I went to the dead
room door. I called him out and gave me a
hard time. I said, listen, I got to call out
front about your package. Came to the door, came out

(27:40):
and uh, we was standing there, and I called out
front to another guy's name was Jim Seuell. He was booking,
and I said, hey, Jim, I got a guy here.
He says he's got a package from his girlfriend and
he look, he said, no, it doesn't have it. He said, okay,
so it's gonna be a problem, I guess, So I said,
all right, I'll I hung up the phone. I said,

(28:03):
all right, I'll call you back, you know, double check. Yeah,
I hung up the phone. So I knew it was
gonna be a problem. So I unlocked the door. Well,
first I picked up the phone again. We talked a
little bit because I know my package there. I picked
up the phone and I called back out front and
Jim says, hey, Rich, look I got him busy here.
He doesn't have a package. I said, all right, So

(28:24):
I put the phone up on top without hanging it up,
and that's that's a signal that goes to and lets
them know that there's a problem. And then I unlocked
the door and I said, hey, sorry, spent you and
I have a package. And back then they used to
do this a lot with the fingers, stick it in
your face like this. He went up like this to
stick his finger in my face, and just as he

(28:45):
did this right into my face, I hit him. We
went down and we rolled for a good period, and
then at that time all the inmates ran to the
to the to the dayroom door. There's all my little
port window and they're all yelling, yeah a millerk get
a miller on my side, because he was he was
really a hard problem for them, you know. Yeah, they

(29:08):
were all yell and seal Miller, get him, Seal Miller,
get him, Seal Miller. They were on my side. Most
of them finally got him under control, but the squat
had come in and by that time we were the
two of us were in pretty bad shape. There's a
good roll around for a while until they got there,
and and so they leave. They take him off and

(29:30):
he's got to go down to the medical block to
be seen. And the captain who's uh can remember his
name now, sat me down and he said, look, you're
new here. If I get you out here and take
you to the hospital, which I think you need to
do because knows my ear was ripped, and he said,

(29:52):
if I take you out of here bringing to the hospital,
it's a draw. You finish your tour tonight on this block.
This is your block. And sure enough until I left
one West with my block man.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
And that sets the tone. That sets the tone right there,
because they're looking to see I mean, these prisoners, they're
in prison for reasons, not because they're nice. Exactly.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
If you've give them weakness, they'll they'll take advantage of it.
It'll open it'll open the door for them to take to.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Take advantage of One of the things I want to
do is I got to get in touch with some
corrections es you guys, because I was having this conversation
down at Floyd Bennett with Joe Whtelder, who I'm trying
to get on the show. By the way, Joe, you
should come on already, I say, great, God yeah, working
two truck primarily during the course of his SU career.
But as he brought out a good point and Brian
Wall mentioned this too, it's hand to hand combat in corrections, ESU,

(30:43):
because those sell extractions are not easy. You're dealing with
some very the epitome of violent, volatile people who obviously
are in prison for a reason. So shout out to
all the corrections es you guys. I don't know how
they do it, the man did they put in the work?

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Oh yeah? And that that that tactic of point in
your face that you used that to poke in the
I first before they hit you come up with the
left or right right here? Orient yeah, disent.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
And who knows what could happen from there. So you
did that for a year, and as you said, it
was a stepping stone. So you go into the NYPD
at nineteen eighty eight, and I always like asking, this
is kind of a staple anytime I get a police
guest down that came on pre merch at that time.
Obviously they would tell you where you were going to go,
either if it was going to be the city housing
a transit. Did you have a preference or did you
not care? As long as you were cop in New

(31:29):
York City?

Speaker 2 (31:30):
I don't think I care. Yeah, I did want to
be in New York City police officer. I Uh, it
was when I decided I wanted to be in law
enforcements a career. I kept channeling my mind that's where
I wanted to be. I was stationed in Pendleton, California,
LA was an option. I was stationed Hawaii HPD. Honolulu

(31:52):
PD would have been great, but I wanted I want
an NYPD if I was going to be a police officer.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
Right, it is the pinnacle and you got there in
nineteen eighty eight. Now going to the academy, it's it's
not a walk in the park. But obviously with your
background having gone through the Marine Corps, it's a lot easier.
And uh they often look for that guys who are
squared away from a prior background and services, which I had.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
I was a company I was a company sergeant and
uh I one one of if I can take a
moment on that. Yeah. Uh there was a an officer
who was uh well, the recruit who was hired by
Transit PD and and uh awa uh he he was

(32:38):
a problem child from the beginning, and I always thought
maybe maybe it was a language barrier. So I asked
one of the other guys, Tony Diaz, as a matter
of fact, a very good officer O. C. C B
and later O C. C B. Uh it was one
of my was it one of my It was with
me in the squad and my platoon and and uh, yeah,

(33:01):
I asked, you know, could you help him out? And
I asked a couple other guys too, and they said,
you know, we've tried, we've tried, and he just won't,
you know. So and he was feeling a lot of courses.
But for some reason they were hanging on to him.
But I think he had a family member on the
job as well. But he was just a big problem.
And my assistant company sergeant, Danny Valenti, I had to run.

(33:24):
As a company sergeant, you run the six ten and
you got to do a lot of administrative stuff and
you know, go up and meet with the big bosses.
And we were at the range one day and I
had to run over to their building, their equivalent of
six ten at the academy, uh for admin stuff. And
when I came back, Danny Valenti he was looking at him.
He's like, why is the ghost? I said, well, what's
the matter and he said, uh, Eric was threatening me

(33:48):
and I said, come on, man, really and yeah, he
threatened me. I said why do you threaten you? He said, well,
I said, hey, everybody's picking up brass. Why don't you help?
And he threatened, So I walked over to Eric and
I said, Eric, listen, listen. You know, we're a team here.
We're a team here, and we're trying to get everybody
through the academy together. So and then he threatened me.

(34:09):
And at that time, I was like, wow, you know,
I'll go back to corrections. I don't you know, you're
not going to threaten me. And we squared we squared away.
And but so when I got when we got from
from the range back to the academy, I uh was
sitting in class and it's it's a busy job being

(34:31):
the company sergeant. So for you know, if there's a
problem with another recruit, sometimes you have to go up
to the six ten with them to see the lieutenant
up there. Well, anyway, I got told I got to
go to six ten see Lieutenant iison Man. So I
went up there and he said, I want you to
get down the hall. You're gonna meet with Transit. I said,
oh transit, Why transit? You just set me down the

(34:54):
hall and I had to stand in front of the
door and a transit and I thought, well, maybe they're
searching me over transit or something I don't know, or
maybe I'm being to sign transit and I stood there
for a bit and they called me in and there
was a sergeant there. Tryed the sergeant and he asked
me about this guy Eric, and I said, I said, well, sir,

(35:15):
you know, I don't I don't think you know, I'm
not in a good position to give advice on this
guy because we've had a problem. And he said, yeah,
you threatened him, and I said, I threatened him. I said, okay,
all right, so I fessed up. I said all right,
and they said we'll deal with it, and I we'll

(35:36):
deal with it. So I went back to Lieutenant Geison.
He said it's a serious problem. I said, yes, sir.
They sent him back to their class. So I didn't
know what was going to happen with the rest of
my my time in the academy. And when I came
in a day or two later, they brought me back
upstairs to transit and they asked me about him again,

(35:59):
and I said, well, so, I you know, I don't
want I'm not rap, but you know I'm not gonna
you know, I just felt like, you know, hey, you know,
I think it was a mutual thing between the two
of us. I thought I settled it well, and we
left it at that, he said, he said, all right,
you're back to your class. And so apparently there was

(36:23):
their last straw because they had interviewed a few other
people in the academy class and uh instructors as well,
and they fired him. The problem was they couldn't find
they couldn't he never turned in his pd ID card.
So a few years later he's gone, it's gone. He's

(36:44):
the only one I think we lost in the academy
class because we were all trying to keep everybody together
and help each other out. And that was that was
the best that I had a great company. You know.
They bought me a gun too. At the end. They
were great guys, great men and women, and many of
them became big bosses. Well. Anyway, so fast forward a

(37:06):
few years later. Uh, after after my first shooting, I
was assigned to the borough command for a bit. And
that's when I was driving Louis anemone and and uh
tymy mallin a few great guys, great bosses, uh and
uh and the phones ring and I picked up the
phone and yeah they I said, you know Ploceficer, Miller,

(37:27):
Throbo Bronx, and it was a news station in Maryland
and it's and and uh. So I I said, oh wow,
I said, you know, and they told me what This
guy claimed to be an nypdu officer identified himself as
an NYPD officer with another guy in the car. The
driver identified himself and he shot and killed. The Maryland

(37:51):
State trooper said, actually before he said that, you know that,
you know? The reporter said, I said, uh, who's the guy?
But you know there was an incident down there? Who's
the guy? And said that? She said the name, and
so I held the phone back and I said, that
name's gonna haunt me the rest of my career. His
name was Eric Torado, okay, And I said that name's

(38:14):
gonna haunt me the rest of the rest of my career.
So I ran down. I said, like I said, cald
d CPI cold d c card. And I hung up
the phone, ran downstairs the Bronx Homicide and there was
a guy down there, Benny Torodo, really great guy, great
detective homicide. So I ran in there, I said, do
you have guys? Have a guy down here by my name,
Eric t Everybody's kind of like sitting back because it

(38:35):
had been a long night for them. They all sit
up in the room and go, how do you know that?
And I said, was this guy ever on the in
the NYPD? And he's how do you know that? How
do you know that? And I said, because when they
interviewed me, when they were firing him, they couldn't find
his ID card and they were going to ask everybody
in the class if anybody's seen the ID card. So anyway, Uh,

(38:59):
it's a long story, but I won't go too far
into it. But he got twenty five to life.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
I think, Oh god, what a shame, What a shame
throws it all talk about throwing it all away? God, yeah, man,
what a jerk man. No sympathy for him, But listen, man,
just at least, and it's not good what happened later,
but at least he was vetted out properly enough to
where he never even got on the job. Because if

(39:24):
that's the hor committed off the job, imagine what he
would have done with the badge and a gun in
an official title. So it's scary to think, but thankfully
he was weeded out before he could even get that far. Now,
transitioning into your time and patrol, before we get to
ESU in ninety three. Time patrol primarily was in the Bronx,
as you said, four to four precinct off the rip.
Now there are precincts to grow up in. There's a

(39:44):
lot of busy commands throughout the city. I won't say
which borough is busier over the other because it all
blends the h well, but you know the Bronx four
to four. Talk about a learning curve, even for someone
like yourself that had the background you did to patrol
those streets during that time in the late eighties, crack
is around. He got dealers left and right. Talk about
a street education. Tell me about those early years and

(40:05):
who helped you grow as you were on top of
the four fourth.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
So, like I said, when I got assigned to the
four four, my first partner was Charlie Charlie Wissell, and
we were in the Marines together, bodyguards together, grew up together,
and UH and patrol in the four to four. It
was very busy house and and UH we'd run neck
and neck with seven five and the three fourth at
the time. And you if you, if you remember that

(40:30):
back then, if you the four four is a small
command and you could take the four to six, the
four to two, the four eight, and maybe even the
four to zer PLoP it right in to the seven
five or the three four, so per square miles. Pretty
busy place, yeah, and it was a good place to
learn to be an officer a cop, right and uh I, uh,

(40:53):
my first day on patrol and we get a call
and I was a guy nam Kevin O'Keeffe and he
was a senior officer riding around with him. This is
before I became partners because with Charlie. Charlie was done
midnights at that time, so but I had to I
had to do my uh don't remember what it was
at the time. So, uh we had a guy on

(41:14):
the thirteenth floor on Concourse Village on the balcony and uh,
you know, we called for issue, but it looked like
he was gonna go A was an elderly man apparently
he was he had cancer, was in bed shape and
and uh so I jumped from the balcony that I
was on to his balcony, hit the ice and slid

(41:36):
across the ice. There was because the winter time, and
they had potted plants on the balcony and I guess water,
you know, it was pretty icy. So when I hit,
I just skidded across. I was able to grab him
by the legs, pant legs and legs, and I just
held on until Kevin jumped and uh nikkiy Demure was
a sergeant at the time. He said, I'm riding that up.
I'm riding that up. And I didn't even know what

(41:58):
a ride up was pretty much at that time, because
you know, other than you know, uh f t you,
I knew it. You know, I knew what it metaled, man,
but you know, you know, it was good to know
what boss was gonna rute up your medal for you.
So anyway, that was that was the first medal I
got in the m I p D.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
First day I'm patrol, and that's the thing that you know,
not to gloss over that it was the first day.
And again there are certain guys on both the f
D and the p D side, or just the magnets
for jobs like that. Seems like you were a magnet
for all the big ones or notable ones throughout your career,
because I mean, oh yeah, we'll look on the positive

(42:35):
side of it. My goodness. The first day, you know,
you know, had gone through the Academy already, and he
had gotten out of the I think by this time
in nineteen eighty eight had they done away with n
s U. Was it more f to you by the day?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
That was f to you, Fie. That was in field
t F nine. That's why I met Steve, Steve Banana
for the first time. I was a young rookie cop.
God bless him, and he was Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
I would have loved to have had him on this show,
my goodness. And it's as you mentioned, the seven five,
and there's a lot of guys that, of course ended
up in the s U from the seven to five.
I have to say that rather unfortunate, but nevertheless funny motto.
You give us twenty two minutes, will give you a homicide.
That's that's how busy it was for them back.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Oh yeah, sometime it's crazy. It was crazy, hoss.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
You know seven truck stopping grounds, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
I flew to seven truck quite a bit in my time.
Oh yeah, great bunch of guys in that truck, really
great bunch of guys, great cops. A lot of them were,
you know, working the seven to five or or Rowdie's
can Park all around that area.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Know, yeah, just not to gloss over before I continue.
Seven five. You think about some of the guys that
have ended up in the SU. Was kind of a
great farm system, if you will, because Mike was a
seven five guy, David was a seven five guy. Joe
seven five guy, yeah, Joe, Yeah. So I think it
was Roddy seven five guy too. Might have been Rodney Griffith.

(43:51):
I think Roddy Rodney Griffin might have been a seven
five guy. I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
I think he was. I think he was. I mean,
you know, a pause from moment, you know, yeah, those
fourteen guys were amazing. But uh, but Mike was an
awesome guy. And when I was a new guy in
the s U, you know, we were in the academy,

(44:15):
you know, at the same time. But you know, he
got the issue before me, and Rodney Gillis as well. Uh,
but they, you know, they welcomed me pretty good. I
got got to know my pretty good. And uh. I
was a packer and waiver for the world the Oklahoma
City bombing and Paul hargro was the sergeant. So I
was a packer and waiver for for them, for the

(44:37):
for the team that FEMA team to go there. So, uh,
I thought I was going because a guy named Chris
Priest was from Truck four, was one of the guys
you know on the Phema team at the time. And
and mccardial told me John another guy, great guy, John mccardal.
Uh he said, he said, listen, nobody comes from Fort Truck.

(44:58):
He might be going, and uh so I was like, wow,
I'm the guy. I ran over to Mike and said, Mike,
I might be going with you. That's awesome. That's awesome.
And packing through the night, I think about four, four
thirty five o'clock in the morning, Chris Peace come walking
in and I was like, oh, you know, and I'm
glad that he got to go.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
This is.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
His to do and ibe I'd get my chance again.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Yeah, and of course those chances would come later on.
I have to tell this Mike Kurtin story really quick
before we continue with your career. That Ronnie Wasson told
me when I had Inspector Washington on the show a
couple of years ago. So Ronnie was I think, also, yeah,
another great guy and who contributed a lot to the unit.
I think he was awesome on the seven five. So
it was New Year's Eve and it was right before midnight.

(45:44):
So an unfortunate tradition in certain parts of the city
is the not so savory characters the neighborhood will fire
guns off into the air as a quote unquote celebration
of the New year. So they were telling all the
cops in the precinct stay inside. We don't want you
getting involved then shootings. So Mike Current stayed out on patrol.
Ronnie was one of the guys that told him stay inside.

(46:06):
Mike was a patrol coup at the time. Is before
he got to ESU and he gets sure enough, he
gets into a shooting and Ronnie Watson pulls up and
as he told me, Mike had a way about him
that you couldn't stay mad at him. And he just
looked at him like I thought, I told you to
stay in the precinct, and Mike.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Was just like.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
So.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Mike Kurrt another magnet for big jobs. And there's a
great story. We don't have time to highlight it here,
but for those of you that want to look it up,
just type in Mike curt and Oklahoma City. Great story
about a recovery he was involved in while out there
in the aftermath of that tragic bombing. So you know,
getting back to of course your career working the four
to four. Besides all the big calls and some of
the more notable calls, there is the aspect of getting

(46:44):
to know the community, which is one of the favorite
things of any officer that is actively engaged in the community.
So in an area like that, you had a lot
of good people too, They're trying to make a living,
trying to raise their families. What did your most enjoy
about interacting with them?

Speaker 2 (46:56):
Well, if I can, if I can back it up
just a little bit. You nine, I made a caller
and I went to Central Booking, and you know, it
was either take the grat sled or or the bus
back and the FQ nine we turned out of the
five to two. So it was a big bus ride
up at the concourse. But uh, but it's you know,
I enjoyed it, you know. And uh, you know, and

(47:18):
at that time, young officers were supposed to stand on
the bus and I was supposed to sit down. So
I was standing. There wasn't a lot of people on
the bus, but and I could have grabbed the seat,
but I was standing, and I looked down and it
was this kid sitting on the bus on the ride
and we were going and going up the Grand Concourse,
most of it at that time. And I looked down
and I said, hey, hey, why are you in school?
And he goes, I quit school. And I looked down

(47:41):
and said, you quit school why? And you know, he
gave me reason why, and I said, that's not a
good reason. I don't remember who it was at the time,
but but you know, I said, you know, I told
him what happened to me. You know, I had a
you know what, my dad died when I was a kid,
and you know, I was running the wrong directions and
the military was my step and stoning ago and uh

(48:02):
I thought, you know, hey listened, you know blind it
is maybe you know, he wasn't listening, you know, And
and uh So I got off the bus one hundred
and niney fourth Street, walked down to the precinct. A
few weeks later, I was out front waiting to catch
the bus to go to band Post three Anthony Avenue.
Reason why I remember that because I did that. I
did that post a lot. But I remembered, you know

(48:24):
that because of the connection to this and and uh,
I'm standing out there and a bunch of guys from
my ft U Joey Zallo, a bunch of a bunch
of guys good friends. Later on, Yeah, and uh, this
guy comes up to me, young guy, little guy. He
was short. He was short, so that's why I thought
he was a little kid. And he and and uh

(48:46):
he goes orsa miller and I look yeah, and he goes, uh,
I said, he goes, yeah, he goes, I want I
want you to meet my mom, my mother, my mother.
And I'm looking at him like I don't quite quite
put it all together yet. And I'm looking at him,
and he says something to her in Spanish. But as
he's talking to her, I go, oh, oh, wow, okay,
and and he and he says, he goes. He comes

(49:08):
up to me and she she took my hands and
hold my hands tight and and uh, you know, she
says something in Spanish. Dad and and he goes, he goes,
I joined the military, what because they're gonna help me
get my g ed. I said, oh ah, great, that's coral.
It's like wow and and uh and she was like

(49:31):
like you know, you know, like you know, very happy,
you know, very happy. You know, thank you thanking me,
and uh so I'm looking at her. I said, wow,
that's great, that's great. And and the other guy's looking
on and he and I said, what branch of the service,
you know, and then here's the army, called the army.
I said, that's great, that's great. Any branch of the

(49:52):
service is a great stepping stone, I feel. So, you know,
I you know, I said goodbye. And they went down
the street and in there, and I think it was
Kevin had said, uh, I said, you know, I said this,
he goes, You're not gonna cry on us. I'm looking
at I said no. I said, look because they could
look at me, looking very sincere, and I said no.

(50:14):
I said, if I don't do anything the rest of
my career, I got one kid off the street, just one. Yeah,
that's what matters.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Yeah, that's and that's that's police work right there.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
It was it was the same kid on the bus, right.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
So yeah, there's the collars, you know. Of course, there's
the collars, of course, and that's a big component of it.
There's obviously the community enforcement, the community relations, but at
the end of the day, it's the one on one
you know, that's just as much a part of the
job as anything else. That's that's real policing. I feel
like some of that sometimes these days, with the way
the job has changed over the years, with technology and

(50:49):
other factors too, that gets lost. So it's always great
to hear stories like that, you know, we I do
want to highlight and it's amazing because you've had such
an extensive career. We will get to the ESU portion
of it, but these are some things I did want
to touch on with you. First, you had a gun
arrest obviously before during your days as a military police officer,
but there was your first shooting on the job as well,

(51:09):
which is a test of any officers medal. It doesn't
matter what background you have. It's a position you don't
want to be in. But obviously in the back of
your mind, no matter where you're a cop, you know
there's potential and it could happen, and it didn't happen here.
So for those not familiar with the story, what was
the background of you first shooting, Richard?

Speaker 2 (51:26):
I could take some time as.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Much as you want to share it something to you.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
So we got to call eleven Avenue a man banging
on doors with a knife, and so TROI and I
pulled up and I think we were full for Charlie.
They were, and then we heard full four David on
the back. So you don't want to you don't want
your backup to beat you there. So we got there

(51:52):
pretty quickly. We were in munch time, one hundred and
seventy first Street having tea. It was two o'clock in
the morning, So to your coffee if you knew, Charlie's
had to have his team. So so we shoot over
there and we got there around the same time as
Joe Plast and Basil Fisher, uh from David.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
And.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
We heard loud music on the street. Now it's April
and it's chili night, but you know it's loud music
get heard on the street. So we're like, so they
said they're seeing they were seeing you guys. To me,
Charlie howready had a year on the job before I
got on actually, and uh so I'm gonna follow them
whatever they think. And uh so loud music, Okay, So

(52:34):
we going and I go from the stairs and they
hit the elevator. One of them at the elevator, come
on and I and we took the elevator and got
off the elevators. Loud, loud music coming out around the hallway.
So we walked down the hallway towards six. Charlie is
the apartment of I think, and uh, just as Charlie

(52:56):
goes to knock on the door, I said, wait, wait, wait,
and you kind of looked had me funny, and Basil
Fisher and I went up the stairs. I wanted to
check the roof landing to make sure it was locked.
I was working, you know, move but that's a smart move.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
So I was coming downstairs and Charlie started knocking on
the door, and the door opened up and the guy
came out with a knife, came right across Charlie's chest.
He went down Joel plas another offic and he went
down and I actually took vasil fishing and pushed him
out of the way and took out my thirty eight

(53:32):
and I ran up and put it to his head
and started yelling and dropped the knie, dropped the knife,
and he was backing up. I dropped the knie, dropped
the knife right into the apartment at the threshold. The
appartment didn't go all the way in, but you're yelling
in Spanish and just yelling swinge, knife, left hand, back
and forth, back and forth. So so I looked as

(53:52):
at that time Joel Plaz grabbed my leg and he's
trying to climb up, and he looked like like a
scare rabbit. He's like his eyes were like huge, and
I'm looking down at him and I looked back and
he came back at me, said bom fired one shot,
center mass and he backed up, slammed the door shut.
Charlie's on the floor and says, Richie, did you get him?
I said, I don't know, but I pissed him off

(54:14):
and I started trying to kick the door, and that's
when he called They called for the issue. Somebody called
for the issue U Joe Supervisor, duty captain and the issue.
So they took me out of there, and when full
full Crime got there, they said, come on, we're gonna
take you to the hospital. My ears were ringing. I
think the other guys here that were ringing. It's the
hallway and uh. Anyway, I went to Columbia Press with

(54:38):
them and I was waiting there and I guess it
took a while for E issued again, and they weren't
sure when they popped the people where he was, and they,
I guess they were looking looking look in they had
I think they had somebody outside of the fire escape
looking looking at and they couldn't figure out where he
was banging on the door. And then when they finally
made entry, they didn't realize he sat down up against

(55:00):
the door when they made entry, that's where he was.
And he died there. Uh so I at the hospital.
I didn't know he was dead at that time. I
was at the hospital and sitting in the room they
had us in and after we've been checked by the doctors,
waiting to be checked by the doctors, and uh, a

(55:20):
guy came in. I think he was from the trauma unit.
And this was written about in one of the newspapers
year a year later, and and uh the reporter actually
wanted to write a book about it. Then that's another story.
So you know, they they guy from the trauma unit
asked everybody to leave the room, and Charlie stayed by
the by the door, and the guy got right up

(55:41):
in my face and I was like, what's going on?
You know? And and uh, he goes, how do you feel?
I said, I'm all right? Why and uh, here you
know here. I'm all right, why and he goes, well,
you know, the guy he's dead, but you know he's
He goes, you know, he's dead, and I look at him.
I think you've got turned white. I don't even know,

(56:03):
you know, just let the blood, you know, un out.
And I'm looking at him and he's dead, okay, And
Charlie goes. Charlie goes, hey, guy, get out and yanks
him out of the room. So get out of here, right,
And that's when one of the other bosses came in
and said, you know, you don't have to talk to
those guys, not right now, so you know that. I

(56:23):
think that was their way of handling trauma. Then I
don't know. But well, anyway, when I got back to
the full four, of course, you know, get your rights
right to you and and then you know, I was
still on patrol. They didn't take my gun and shield
a way, okay because it was a purp job.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Right.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
So about a week later, I'm still on patrol and
we get another job of a robbery on eleven twenty
just Tarli and I pull up and we get out
of the car. Guys on the sidewalk goes the officer.
The kid who's playing playing with the gun. I said, oh,
he thanks, thanks. So go to the house and there's
kids running around and uh, there was a robbery to

(57:06):
you know. Two two guys were robbed. They were brothers,
and the mother's there and we're talking to mother and
I see a portrait of a marine on the wall
and I wow, I said, you know what, I said,
you know, listen, you know your son's marine. I said,
who's that? And I said, my son, one of the sons,
was a marine. So that broke the ice to have

(57:28):
a conversation with the mother because they were being very
evasive on everything, and we wanted to know, you know,
where the gun was, because we found out that one
of the brothers had gone was playing with in the
yard and that's where the gun. The shots were fired
and so and an accident and uh accidently accidentally shot himself.
Oh so their their version was they got robbed, right.

(57:50):
So anyway, Charlie and I grabbed, you know, one of
one of the brothers, the brother didn't shoot himself, came
back from the hospit he goes, he's dead, he's dead,
he's dead, and we go I'm not take a ride
with us. What hospital? Not to take a ride with us?
You don't want to, So go in. We tell the
mother we just want the gun. We want the gun,

(58:10):
you know, and and uh she said it's not here.
I said, okay, all right, So we take the brother
taking to the hospital out of the hospital, Lincoln Hospitals
the hospital. We go there and uh we we We
asked the doctor if we could talk to the guy.
He's on a guardy with you tubes in him, right and.

Speaker 4 (58:31):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
I said to the doctor, I said, you know, what
are his injuries? And he says, entrance woman, exit woman.
So when he put the gun in his waist, he
shot across and shot himself, right. So I said, okay,
so can we talk to him? Yeah? Sure. Charlie had
the other brother and and uh out in the hallway.
So I leaned down and I said, hey, how's it going?

(58:53):
And I started asking questions. You know, I'm the recorder,
you're taking info and uh get all his information? I said,
give me a description. The guy gave different than the
brothers description. You know, I didn't tell him that. So
they said, okay, I got another question, just one more question.
What did you do with your gun? He goes Michael
and his eyes lit up. He got mad. He started

(59:14):
pulling things out and jumping. He was like an e DP.
Mostly started running around in your mercury room. The doctor's
mad at me, and Charlie goes, come on, we're out
of here now. Now this a week after the shooting.
So we get back to the full four and uh
got all my paperwork and uh the sergeant John Walsh

(59:35):
was his name, Sergeant John wallsh He goes, hey, Richie,
you got a phone call the Burrows on the line.
He said, all right. I picked up the phone and
right away I'm saying, hey, it's not a robbery, because
I'm thinking it's rip ripped it robbery writ you know,
Bron's robbery. And uh, I goes, who is this? I said?
After Miller, he goes, what the effort you doing on

(59:55):
the street? And I'm like, I said, excuse me, what
are you doing on the street? I said again, I'm
in full fort. Charlie, where am I supposed to be, sir?
And he goes, I said, who's this? And he goes
Inspector Gonzales. Emon Gonzalez a great guy, great guy, you know,
he was a for marine too, and uh uh so

(01:00:17):
anyway get me in chewing and they slammed the phone down. Okay,
well you know, and then there are other guys on
the desk. They could hear him screaming through the phone
at me, you know, Walsh goes man it was. I said,
there was some inspector. You don't know why I was
on the street, you know, So anyway, do what I
had to do. The next day I go in, we
go out of patrol again. Well you call back into
the house and I walk in and they said, well,

(01:00:38):
you're going to the borough. And I go all right.
I think I'm doing a mail run to the borough.
And I go all right, what do you want me
to get? You know, and then anybody kneed anything from
the borrow, right, and they were like, no, you're going
to the borough. So so week later I was taken
out of the command. They didn't want to be on
patrol and they never took my gun shield bay and

(01:00:59):
they reclassified the job as a man with a knife
e DP with a knife. And at that time was
like three years after all on our bumpers, so they
were still there's still rehab, you know, reinventing, you know,
the procedures to hand handle emotions to our people. And uh, anyway,
am I going on too much about this?

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
No, Like I said, my job is to let you
tell your story. You talk as much as you want it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
All right, So so anyway, Uh, it turned out it
was Rob Johnson and d Johnson's first home side by
cup And I was a young Robert Johnson. I was young.
I was a young rookie police officer. Right. So, and
it took four months to go to Grand Jordan. It
wasn't easy. It was a long wait. I went. I

(01:01:48):
felt like I went from here over zero overnight, right
And uh, and I gotta tell you that it wasn't
the stress of the shooting itself. It was the stress
of how I was being you know, by by the city,
not not not the guys I worked with, because in
my royal lockers at that time, nine guys were involved
in shooting, serious shootings, and each one of them would

(01:02:09):
come up to me and for that week, the first
week I was after shooting and say, hey, you needn't
to talk to you, you know, to talk to you know,
and great support, great bunch of guys. You know, it
was a great command. And uh, well, anyway. Uh uh
so here I am this borough command, and they didn't
know what to do with me. So for like the

(01:02:30):
first two weeks, I kind of sat in the corner
and Lieutenant Redmond was the admin. Lieutenant said, you know,
don't talk to anybody. Don't let and I'll make sure
nobody talks to you. Just go ahead and get a
paper or something. So like two weeks I had a
bunch of papers. I read papers and do anything. I
come back over to Lieutenant with me help out with
phones or something something. I feel like I'm useless, right

(01:02:52):
and uh so, uh he Lieutenant kylie of the lieutenant,
we'll figure something out for him. And so they uh
they sergeant making, Sergeant making, uh Ray Redman. They finally said, okay,
we got something for you. You want to do something,
Now you work the wheel. I'm like, what the heck

(01:03:13):
is a wheel? So that's the phones, all right. So
that's how I was able to take that call about
the shooting down in Maryland. So anyway, uh, at that time,
they were doing operation all out. So for me, I
was able to take all the old timers Operation all out.

(01:03:34):
And my my post at that time for almost three
years was Post twenty three on UH one hundred and
eighty seventh Street from Belmont to law Lord. I knew
everybody and the Little Lily of Bronx as the on
that post. I would do that and Tremont I think
it was post three on Tremont. Uh for the old
you know, for the old times. I didn't want to

(01:03:55):
do patrol and you do mine my job here and
I'll go out and do you patrol day. And that's
how it was. And Animal went seeing me going out
and he goes, where are you going? I said, going out,
I got to go on control sir, and uh, he goes,
come on, you drive me. Because he was a new
inspector in the Bronze at the time, he wasn't familiar
with Brons So I drove him for that. I drove

(01:04:16):
him for Rikers Island riots, I drove him for Crown
Heights riots and uh I had good time with him.
He was a great man in the Little Animal well anyway,
And then the following year I actually drove Tommy Mullen
who took anim own spot man got promoted from from
Crown Heights. That was his rising stock. He did a

(01:04:38):
great job and uh, I'd like to say I helped him,
you know, because I was on foot with him quite
a bit. First meeting at Crown Heights. Uh when ray
Kelly in the meeting, uh, Commission Brown was was was
not in town. So ray Kelly was, Yeah, I wasn't
gonna say that, but uh, you know, I basically said

(01:05:02):
that meaning you know, and and listened to what was
going on, and they gave they gave moving home, the
marching orders, take back the streets. So we go out
outside and go to the car and he goes get
your helmet on and get a nice stick and grab
you by the chin strap and he said, nobody lays
a hand on you, yes, sir, And uh, yeah, it was.

(01:05:23):
It was. The was a lot more that story with
all might say it for another day.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
I guess we gotta do a whole show on that
because I've had Chief Animal on the program a couple
of times, and he's a friend and he is he is,
and that he was. That's so d chief actually for
a little bit before he continued on up to Chief Patrol,
that chief of department. But that, yeah, you're right, that
was kind of the seminal moment in his career. He
was a three two guy in Harlem for a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's that's why he wasn't so familiar
with the Bronx. And and and uh you know, a
great guy, a great boss. But yeah, so on our
way out there, I'm driving and uh and through Eastern
Parkway and out to uh to where the temporary headquarters
was and uh running down the street as a kid

(01:06:12):
and and and he goes, get that stop that guy.
Get that guy. Because if you were chief aim inspector
on the mon so, he was not afraid to step
out of the car and make a collar, you know.
So uh So anyway, I uh, I jumped out of
the car and I chased this kid for about two
or three blocks. I chased this kid, tackle him and

(01:06:37):
inspected him. And pulls up in the car, slams out
of brakes, jumps out of the car right and that
shop owner comes up and he comes running up and
that's him, that's him, right, So I go, what does
he what do you do? I ain't got him in
cuffs now, So he goes, he goes, uh, he's stole
an orange. I look at the guy orange, and I
look at inspector at the morning. He goes put him

(01:06:57):
in the car, put him the car, him trying to say, inspector, inspector, wait,
expect to wait a minute, because we got to go
to Crown Heights, you know, we gotta go, right, So, uh,
we take the guy into the seven to one. He's
in my cuffs and I'm standing there in front of
the desk. And it's a madhouse because the Crown Heights.
Oh yeah, going on, it's a mad house. Right, So

(01:07:18):
I'm standing out, I got a collar. What am I doing?
I'm now I'm not his driver. Now we just got
out of here, and and uh, he goes, get rid
of this, I said, expected, I can't. He's got my
cuffs on him. So and I'm waiting for this sergeant,
you know. And uh so anyway he goes. He goes officer,

(01:07:40):
he points to some officer who with his hat some
bat and going out to Crown Heights, you know, join
everybody else, right, And he goes, officer, comere, this is
your collar. I'm like, I'm gonna sign it to you.
And I'm like, okay, well that's great, you know. So
I get we switched cuffs, right, and he goes, what
do you do? I said, he's stolen orange. And the

(01:08:03):
guy looks at me. He's a seven to one cop, right,
he's an orange. He said, three forty three. Do whatever
you got to do with it. I got to go
with the inspector, take care, and out the door we went.
So that first night, we eighty three collars were made.
Eighty seven college were made. Eighty three of those collars.
Inspector that the moment put his hands on it, assigning college,

(01:08:25):
grabbing a guy saying here, this is yours, this is yours,
this is yours. Because guys weren't making college because it's
been going on for three days, you know, and they
you know, and they really didn't. They wanted them to vent,
to get it out, and that was the instructions. Let
them vent. So cops were like okay, And a lot
of these cops were out of borrow guys, you know,
and especially the group that we had that inspected. They

(01:08:46):
were assigned to inspector on them all, you know. So
we were like a rapid mobilization team to take back
and get rid of the crowd.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
So, so it was he was he was frustrated, annoyed,
and on the way back to the Bronx after it
was over with, you know, or maybe it was the
next morning. Trying to remember now, so you know, we're yeah,
it might have been the next morning. On our way out,
well anyway, Uh, we're driving and he goes, I don't

(01:09:13):
know what's going on with these cops why they want
put their hands on them. And I said, well, inspector,
you remember that guy I grabbed with the orange. He said,
you know, I was stuck with a collar out here. Now,
being stuck with a collar out here in the seven
to one, I got to figure out. I got to
take this guy to Central book And where do I go?
I know the Bronx, I mean calling the Bronx. I'm going.

(01:09:35):
I'm a young rookie cop. I know where I'm going.
I still know where I'm going. I'm going to Bronx,
Central Booking, krim A Court. I know how to get
back from there. But as a young cop, I make
a collar out in Brooklyn. I don't want to make
a collar out there. So it was frustrating until until
he come up with the idea, uh, signing collars and

(01:09:58):
having a having a grab. We grab him and we
have other guys process grab him, the process, give it
to a guy to process, and we took the bite
out of that crowd quick with that, Bill Bratton. Bill
Braddon gave gave the transit mobile processing buses and the

(01:10:22):
mobile arrest center. Yeah. Yeah, so and that's that's how
you took the bite of the crowd. So a year later,
I'm still you know, I wanted to go out on patrol.
Washing Heights is kicked up, and I wanted to go
out on patrol, and the TV was on and I
was watching and and uh, Tommy Mullen comes running down,
all getting ready and he goes, you rich, come here.

(01:10:45):
You do for me what you did for louke in
a moll. I said, yes, I'm going going. So I
drove Tommy Mullen for Washington Heights riots and there's some
funny stories there, but you know, unfortunately, you know, there's
a lot of damage that was done and they had
to settle in.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Yeah, those were two back to back situations in the
city where tensions were high. Tension were very high, and
it was different incidents. One was a shooting Mike O'Keefe,
who's a friend of the program. I'll try to get
Mike Michael Keith. Yeah, good guy, I wrote a lot
of books. Shoots Keiko Garcia justifiable because Kiko told tried
to shoot him. Kiko lost that battle, and I believe well,

(01:11:24):
there was tensions between the Jewish community and the Black
community in the case of the government Washington Knights in
nineteen ninety two, which there is a great for those
of you who are Law and Order fans, a great
episode season four, Briscoe and Logan investigate the case. In
that particular episode it's called Sanctuary. It's one of the
greatest episodes in the history of the series. So I
had to throw a little anecdote which is based on

(01:11:46):
the Washington Knights riots of nineteen ninety two. So that
brings us to ninety three and going to E s U,
which kind of seems like a natural fit at this
point because you've done a lot. Obviously, going back to
the Cores, you had the bodyguard experience, you were busy
copound patrol es. He was usually looking for busy cops,
and cops that of course have a good reputation. In addition,
with enough time on patrol, that is, you've got to

(01:12:07):
have at least five years of patrol before you could
apply for emergency service. So getting into unit like that,
you know a lot of guys after going through the STS,
of course, a lot of guys to learn from, a
lot of things to learn just about the special operations
compellent of the NYPD. So tell me about first putting
in the application, what your STS was like in the
first truck you were assigned to.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Well, originally, when I first got on the NYPD, I
wanted to go to Intel because when I was a
bodyguarden with the Royal family when we came into into Manhattan,
not only did we have Secret Service, I mean State
Department handling the upper echelon of the family. Okay, we

(01:12:51):
were the private contractors that handled it, you know, through
the security company that had the project we handling. But
we would work side by side with the guys from
Intel in the motorcades and whatnot. And I got to uh, uh,
Benny Clone it was his name. He worked in the

(01:13:12):
Marya's office. I got to know him pretty good, you know,
doing that deep doing that that job. So and he
said you were coming on the ny p D. You know,
he looked me up. He gave me his card and
I hung on to that. So, uh, after my first shooting,
you know, you know, I I was looking maybe go
to Intel, you know, and and uh I reached out

(01:13:33):
to Benny Clone and told who I was and how
and he goes, yeah, yeah, and hey, yeah this is
a route to go. This is great. It's a great job,
you know. And uh. Well, Anyway, as time went on, though,
you know, after being in the four to four, I
started looking at esues an option that I was that
I really liked, you know that that I just saw

(01:13:53):
how professionally guys were and how you know, the type
of work they did, and I felt like that was
up my alley and U so I applied, ah my
fourth year on the job, because they told me to
take about a year, and by my fifth year I

(01:14:13):
was in the class March of ninety three. And uh I,
I guess that's it. The history. I got into the
show right aftery're doing the shotgun you know, of course
the swim test, ah, and uh you know, you know
what we had to do back then to get in.

Speaker 1 (01:14:34):
Yeah, this was a sweet spot, I think, as I've
highlighted before in the history of emergency service, right before
that merger. So this is as the covered before, right
before you get all the guys from Transit Rescue who
knew the subways really well. How's you Rescue was just
starting up around this time too, wasn't around you. But
those guys they knew the projects very well from their
time as Housing which included Steve Stefanakis by the way,

(01:14:57):
So it was at great guy and like we said,
still getting it done. The last guy that's still on
the job from Housing Rescue, so when he retires in
the year three thousand, that will end that chapter officially.

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Yeah, I just seen Steve. I just seen Steve an
Tonio Taro's winning.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
Tony got married. I didn't know Tony got married.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
I don't know if I was supposed to say that's
that's okay, congratulations.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
I'll have to text Tony. I love him. He's a
good dude and been in he SU quite a long
time as well.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
But but.

Speaker 1 (01:15:31):
And by the way, a shout out to missus Miller,
who has been key in organizing this podcast. You hear
her in the background, Teresa Miller. Of course, he's done
a great job helping me put all this together, getting
me riches timeline. So behind every great man is a
great woman in that it is certainly the case for
missus Teresa Miller A big shoutout to so with that
in mind, within a year, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
From the record.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
It's live. Yeah, Okay, that's okay, it's okay, it's all good.
Orry about it. But within the first year before I
get to some of the jobs that you had in
that ninety four ninety five period. Which truck did you
go to? Out of the sts? Where were you signed?
Initially Truck four okay, Rox, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Yeah, I picked to go to Truck four. Yeah. I
wound up there in second squad. There's a great bunch
of guys there.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
It was just who was your chargeant originally?

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Originally Sergeant Larry Kolora.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Okay, I've heard that name. Yeah, good things about him.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Tommy Flannery a great guy. Yeah, Richie Grosso, Jimmy Edelstein,
Rob Johnson, yep, Joe Bridges. Very knowledgeable guy, Joe, yeah,

(01:16:51):
very knowledgeable.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
A lot to learn from four Trucks That and four
Trucks area is unique because you have not only in
the northern end of the Bronx, but if need be,
because you're so close to Yonkers. Sometimes if Yonkers Police
needs you on a mutual aid, there's instances where if
the job's right at the border, you can kind of
help them out if it's a particularly big job like
an MBA or something, because they have their own emergency

(01:17:12):
service unit as well. But you know sometimes they'll need
you guys too. So you got an interesting slice up there.
And that's not to say that three truck doesn't have
their hands full. Obviously working in the South Bronx, you're
going to but a lot of people sleep on four truck,
but no, four truck is just as busy. And within
that first year you did two things. Now one of
them as actually answers the question in the chat. So
Joe Maliga, who's a friend of the program and a

(01:17:35):
very loyal view or he's a retired directional officer. He
always asks anytime I have a police or fire guest
on did they ever deliver a baby? Well, Joe, we
don't have to wonder if that was the case, because
before I get to the jumper job, delivered a baby
in the Bronx during a parole officer meeting.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Yeah, Joe, and I who was my partner, my first
partner in the issue, and we respond to a job
one hundred and sixty First Street the parole officer was
on the ninth floor. It was an issue with the
elevator too, so it was it was kind of hit
and miss if the elevator was gonna work. And got
up to the ninth floor, and uh they said that

(01:18:13):
this lady's gonna have a baby. And she was a
big woman and her husband's like maybe five two five three. Sure,
she was probably about five nine five ten, but she
she was, she was big. And uh so, anyway, Joe
and I were like, you know, I think we brought

(01:18:34):
the backboard up and the em T kit and and
uh she's she's saying, oh oh oh. And she had
another one with her too, but I don't know what
it was. But she was like, oh oh oh. And
Joe and I go, holy cow, water broke. Oh god,
So what do we do? You know, this is you know,
we know what we're supposed to do, but you know,

(01:18:55):
both of us, it's our first right. So and at
that time we were expecting I think my my my
daughter Christy at the time. And uh so, anyway, we
help her to the floor and I'm asking her a
lot of questions. I'm the recorder, Joe's the driver, right
and chauffeur, and here I am right and you know,
paying my I'm asking her questions and finally get to

(01:19:16):
the question as your first baby. Yes, yes, my first baby.
So I said, okay, all right, I got all my paperwork,
get her legs up, all right, and it's coming, baby's coming,
crowning everything, So get ready, like a football in my hands.
I played football and that that baby came out so fast.
It was much we had to do. There was the

(01:19:36):
babies in my arms and Joe and I, you know,
we you know, at that time the empts from EMS
come in and we're like, thank god, you guys are here.
So we you know, we I got to cut the cord,
you know anyway now that it's there responsibility now, and
then we're gonna help them bring her down. And if
there's an issue with the elevator, you know, we may

(01:19:57):
have to carry her all over down. So so Joe
and I and T were uh M s was ums was.
I keep saying mts. We were empts but e M
S was. You know, we're getting were able to get
her on the elevator, but the elevator kept missing the floor,
like have you know some up some down?

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
So it doesn't help.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Unfortunately, that security officer that was helping us, uh two
weeks later at his head cut off by that elevator.
Oh yeah, tragic story. Yeah, you know, we told him
you got you know. Anyway, we got him and got
her on, got her on the elevator, got her down
the ground floor. We're getting her in the bus and
now MS is asking their questions, right, and the husband there,

(01:20:39):
I think he was the husband, but he was, he
was the father and and uh so we're standing around
the bus getting loaded her in. The MS is asking
their questions and I you know, so she the UMS
worker says, so the first baby.

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
She goes.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
She goes, no, it's my seventh baby. And I go no, no,
she goes I said, she goes, no, it's my first baby.
You know, so I said, you know, she said seventh baby.
My wife because she's heard the story a few times.

Speaker 5 (01:21:11):
So she's like, so I go seven and she I thought,
you said it was your first baby, and she goes,
it's my first baby with him and Joe and I
stood there like wow, that's why I came out.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
I guess like a football and uh so anyway, yea,
so now she's she's asking what our names are, and I,
you know, I said, my name is Rich Rich. And
she asked the other two E M S guys their names,
and she didn't like their names, and uh so she
asked Joe, story said Joe, Joe. You know, Joe's not

(01:21:48):
answering her. So I said Joe, and she's looking at
me Joe, and I said Joseph, and she goes, Oh,
I like that name. So we load her in the bus.
We get into the R E P. And Joe gives
your hard time. Why why why did you? I said,
what's the matter, Joe. Then he goes, because I want
my son to be Yeah, she said, so you know,

(01:22:12):
what was I gonna do? Joe sounds like a nice name,
you know, And so anyway, I just had to be
there and Joe's I said, but Joe, there's plenty of
Joe's in the world, and now young.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
Joe inspired directly by that particular Joe. And I say
this with love because of course I love my mother
very much. But when I see, especially now as I
try to carve out her a career and the emergency
response field myself, what women would have to go through
with pregnancy in that particular final process. I am very glad.
I'm not a woman because I could never handle that,

(01:22:47):
and I don't know how they do. And my friend
Nicole Work, who's a loyal viewer of this program. You know, Nicole,
you have a son, so you went through that process yourself.
Hats off to you. Into my mother who will watch
this later. I'm sorry about that, because good Lord, is
sound painful. Nine months and then that process is having
to actually, no, no, you have to come out now.
Oh boy, shout out to all the mothers out there

(01:23:09):
who've had to do that. Now, this is an interesting question.
I'll go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
No, I gotta say I was. I was blessed to
have that opportunity, right, you know, because of the stream, right,
and I actually cut the cord for all three of
my children, so you know.

Speaker 1 (01:23:24):
There, Yes, it's a blessing, It certainly is. And amen
to that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:28):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
This is an interesting question that Steve Virado and the
chat brings up, and it's good to see Steve as always,
and it's something that I guess we can go back
to to not gloss over it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
It came into.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Emergency service right after the World Trade Center bombing in
nineteen ninety three. So obviously ESU was always an alert
as it is, especially when it comes to landmarks within
the Five boroughs. But after a major incident like this,
you know, I wonder what was it like for you
early on being in SUS directly after a job that
changed the way ESU would operate forever.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
Well, honestly, UH say that for the nineteen ninety three
World Trade Center bomb, I was actually coming back from
Brooklyn driving Tom Chief Thomas Gallagher, great great man, and
uh when when it happened, he said go, and we
went and and we didn't do much, but you know,
being there just you know whatever we could, you know,

(01:24:20):
stand around pretty much. But but and uh uh we
you know, help some people across the street and about it.
That's about the most of it, right, And uh but
I watched what was going on with the s U
and and guys that were working that day, and uh,
I was really impressed that I was soon to be
going there. And uh, I just I gotta tell you

(01:24:43):
that I was blessed with a great career, but I
was also blessed to work with such great men and
women from that unit. And uh that that was a
great I say inspiration before I went into the unity
to see them in that kind of work, absolutely emotion
in motion. Obviously I didn't down in where they they

(01:25:05):
but just just see them in motion, you know, with
the determination to get in there.

Speaker 1 (01:25:09):
I know, Yeah, did a great job under some very
difficult circumstances. Shout out to them Transit Rescue which responded.
I know that from talking with Joe Santem Franco Veraducci
and also of Porto Thorny Police Emergency Service here. I'm
not sure if they existed around that time, but the
Porto Thorny Police nevertheless did a great job in particular
with that operation as well. Now, jumper jobs are not

(01:25:30):
and I do want to get to Freddy's Fashion mar
in nineteen ninety five, which happened in two trucks areas
at a moment, But jumper jobs are not easy to
deal with just because of the precariousness of it, especially
if you're up on a bridge or any kind of
high point, and obviously you're walking into a volatile situation where,
no matter what it is, something has pushed that person
to the edge. It is your job, literally and figuratively,

(01:25:50):
is your job to bring them back Now in this instance,
it's especially challenging because this person is deaf. Now, unless
in general you're a sign language expert, it's very difficult
dudicate with this person. So tell me about this job
and ultimately how you were able to end it peaceably.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
You and my wife did your homework, right. Uh, that's
that job, right. Uh actually uh, uh, Well, we got
a call man on the roof and he was deaf
and uh it was just off of Third Avenue and
the down on the four to two top of one
of the housing projects, the right and uh my p

(01:26:30):
S A well yeah, p s A seven I think
it was, you know often that was on the roof
for us was there and uh she was having making
you know, headway with it for a little bit. And
and Doug Bertram was my basically I would say Doug
was like a TPO training over there.

Speaker 6 (01:26:49):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
You know, he was a great man, very knowledgeable. He
left early from the NYPD. You go upstate and work
for a department there and uh, but he was a
great man to learn from. And Doug eyed me in
and I got close to approach and and uh to
engage and try to engage in conversation and I was
making it nowhere. I was I'm getting nowhere and uh

(01:27:12):
I what I didn't know was there was actually Fox
News was trying to set up on another roof somewhere
up to watch and uh so so uh I had
an idea and uh and hi, I rode on my

(01:27:33):
hand all I want to help, you know, so you know,
and so I kind of broke the ice and that
was the best I could do. Spit on my hand,
wife and try again, you know, and and uh uh
to get closer. But I kept writing smaller, and as
I got closer, it was right small. He kept leaning

(01:27:54):
back to read where I was going, and I was
able to make the grab right. Apparently Fox liked what happened,
and the next day, well, that night we got a
phone call at home and Doug called me and says,
are we going to go? I said, we're going to go.
I don't know what do we do? And I said, well,
Desk is telling us. You know, we got to be
at Fox five studios early in the morning with Lynn White.

(01:28:16):
And I was like, really, and if you watched Fox
News back then with Lynn White, and it's very pretty woman,
you know, and she wore short skirts but I. Uh
So we were told we've got to be We've got
to be down there and and uh so they were
actually going to send a car up the fortruck to
pick us up, but we said we'd go down. We're

(01:28:38):
gonna be in be in uniform. So we drove down
to the R. E. P. And uh yuh So we
get at the studio and uh they put us in
the green room and very little prep. We're just we've
got to be out there. When we get called out there,
and there was a uh a famous aerobics woman what

(01:29:00):
was her name anyway, with another woman there, and they
were gonna they were gonna be on before us, right, oh,
no after us. They were gonna be on after us.
And we're in the green room talking to them, and
the guy comes in to get us to bring us
out there. But we're doing a robust with her in
the green room, the other me and me and Doug.
They come in, what are you doing? The us into

(01:29:24):
the into the studio and and uh and we're kind
of like elbowing each other. Who's gonna sit next to
Lynn White? And and I was kind of like dumbstruck
or in awe, here I am right and Doug sat
between me and Lynn White and and Uh, anyway, she

(01:29:46):
was interviewing Doug, and Doug very professionally explained what we
do and and and uh asked me a couple of
questions here and there, and then but then she goes,
but I was really quiet and and nervous. But I
was looking around and when you said then you and
you you you were having you were you were talking
to him doing sign language. And looked at her like,

(01:30:07):
uh no, not really, I said, I was preying on
my hand and spitting on my hand, my wife and
it you should seeing the jaw drop on her and
probably everybody else. That's how we made communication. It's funny story.
But then she said, how how does a guy you know,
you know, when you know what makes you, what compels

(01:30:28):
you to do that? And I said, well, compassion overcomes
the fear. And when I said that, I looked at
the camera. I couldn't believe I said that, because I
got quite a riven from a lot of the guys
in the sue about compassion overcomes the fear. But that's
the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
It is, it is, and it's seques perfectly into what
Steve wrote in the chat. He says, we are blessed brother,
and indeed, and such is the case, you know, especially
with some of the jobs like that that turn out well,
the tricky situations. But thankfully they didn't turn into tragic situations.
And it's definitely an uplifting job and enough uplifting story,
and thank you for sharing that. Nineteen ninety five. Now,

(01:31:03):
Sam Katz wrote two books on the su The second
one is more pictuory in it, or the first one
is more pictorian, I should say. The second one. He
makes a reference to this because he had spent nineteen
ninety seven with two truck but he did a callback
of one of the chapters to nineteen ninety five. Now
for context, and Billy Ryan's in the Chatty. He was
a detective in Nurson explosion at the time, and he

(01:31:24):
remembers his case very well. There had been racial tensions
in the area. You know, I'm not gonna go down
the rabbit hole, but it was racial tensions in the area.
There's been a lot of really very charged rhetoric that
was being said in the lead ups to this. So
there's always the chance that someone who's already unstable and
off kilter as it is, is going to take it

(01:31:44):
a step or five overboard, And that's exactly what happened
when an individual went into Freddy's Fashion Mark started shooting
and in addition to started the shooting in that store,
lit it up on fire. So this happened in two
trucks area. One truck came down assists at the time.
This was really an all hands job. FD was there
because there's fire involved. Numerous people were killed. It was.

(01:32:07):
This was in December of ninety five. Really just a
wild and very tragic job. So I never knew you
were there, and I've had a few guys on who
were there when it went down. I think Sethguard told
the story about it too. So that day from your
perspective December, Seth was very good. What from your vantage point,
what happened that day of Freddy's.

Speaker 2 (01:32:27):
So my partner Joe and I we were somewhere near
Fordham Road, I think it was the five two four six,
right on the border there around that area. When we
heard Seth on the radio, you know, putting it over.
Couldn't make out exactly what he had said where it
was at at at that time, So Joe and I
shot down one one down the dig into one five

(01:32:49):
five UH and took one five to five in because
we knew it was south of where we were at
for some reason until we can clarify exactly where it
was at. But we could have gotten anywhere in two
truck in the center of two trucks area of responsibility,
So it made sense to shoot for that and get
in and then once we clarified where we're at, where

(01:33:09):
we had to go. We were I think we were
like one of the first r EPs outside of two
truck area to be there, and Joe and I as
a bunker team. I had a shotgun and Joe had
the bunker. We're on one side of the store, while
Set and Henry Henry mcginner were on the other side
of the store, and we knew that uh Ann and

(01:33:30):
Pete were in the back with other people, you know,
to help get people out. But he was still shooting
and h FD was there and they had a charge line,
and so the fire lieutenant said, we're gonna work. He goes,
We're gonna make entry, and we were kind of holding
him back a bit because we were still shots fired

(01:33:50):
at the time, and uh and I couldn't make out
where they were coming from. I had the shotgun up
and and.

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
Uh he.

Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
Said, uh uh, the fire lieutenant said, we're gonna go,
We're gonna go. I said, I said, then I'm going
with you, because with have was that he the perpetrator.
He he had lit the lit the front of the
building on fire. And it was a clothing store. There
were a lot of back then. They remember the old
puffy jackets and the ny line. Yeah, so they actually

(01:34:24):
that was when the fire started. It actually just took
off like a like fuel. And maybe Seth can explain
it better, but uh, but uh, the ten says we're going,
So I and I said, I'm going with you, because well,
then make sure my guys don't get shot. So we
were their protection to go in and start putting out
the fire. But by that time, well he the fire

(01:34:47):
lieutenant said, uh, nobody can survive this right now up
up here unless the people downstairs. But so pushed forward.
But and you know, Pete and they did a great
job in the back helping getting people out. But I
believe it was like six people including the died that fire. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
Yeah, And that was one of the jobs where again
a certain individual by the name of mister Sharpton were
now going into the details of it was involved in
that with some of the things that he was saying
at the time, And it's just the sad part is
most of the victims in that job died from smoke
in elation with a combination of the shots too. But
some of these victims were killed not even by the

(01:35:31):
gun or by the flames. Some of them were in
the back and they died of smoke. So just a
very avoidable tragedy. And I remember, and I know this
from interviewing both enough PD and FT guys. It's interesting.
Safer was kind of who ended up becoming the police
commissioner a few months after this. He was kind of
ticked off, if I remember the time, because he was
wondering why ESU had tanker truck and not a big

(01:35:53):
tanker truck. Put some truck with water in it, or
wanted a truck with water in it for future emergencies
like this, because the thing he was, if there's a
situation where you have a purp in there who's shooting,
we're not trying to be the fire department where we
can at least dowseit with water, take care of two
problems at once. That way, when FD does make entry,
it's safer for them and they don't get hurt. So
they requested that Commissioner Safer, who was fire commission at

(01:36:15):
the time, was not too happy about it. But I
think once he became police commissioner, which he did a
great job, as you know, he began to at least
understand a little bit better. So definitely a job that
changed things as well. And it gets forgott about because
a lot of other things that happened in the nineties,
but that was a big one. Freddy's Faster Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:33):
God Russell saw the opportunity to spend time with his
wife Carol, Teresa and I. But yeah, yeah, he had
I remember mentioning that job before you'd take it over.

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
Yeah, he's a lovely guy. I had the chance to
have him on the show as well. What a great
guy and again a heck of a police commissioner and
fire commissioner did both very well. Nineteen ninety six, a
few months after this March, Michael Fry is a police
officer at east Chester and gets a her response to
a call. I believe it was a shots fire call,
and he had not even gotten out of his patrol car.

(01:37:08):
A sniper opened fire and killed him. Uh, we're just
partnering killed him a standoff and sued. I believe this
was right by Queen's.

Speaker 2 (01:37:17):
No east Chester. Yeah, it was beneath Chester and Westchester County.
Originally when the job came over, we were change the tour,
so Tommy and the other guys were pretty much changed
in going out the door and I and I was
still I had to come back from a fly, I think.
So I was still you know, in uniform. And uh

(01:37:40):
Dave Smith, uh from truck four, uh another squad. Uh,
he was there and and uh so I said, Dave,
I'll go with you. And we ran downstairs. And at
that time we had in the merge we had other
r EPs from the other uh departments. Uh we had

(01:38:02):
a transit r E P which was pretty fast and
uh faster than our rps that we had. I think
it was gas. And anyway, Uh, we shot up because
Dave grew up into east Chester, so prettyouce knew the area.
So we were coming towards Marbledale Avenue in Eastchester, and

(01:38:24):
I didn't know the area that well. I remember, you know,
young being down in east Chester I played football against Eastchester,
so I, you know, I kind of remember being certain
areas of Eastchester, so I knew I had an idea
where it might have been. And yeah, we're going down
the road and Dave says, no, it's not here the
street where the house was, and he was right. It

(01:38:44):
was set up on a hill. But we're kind of
he's kind of like trying to figure it out. And
I said, Dave, I don't know where it's at, but
there's a bunch of guys behind cars down the road here,
and that was Marbledale Avenue. So we made our way
down there and uh and Purple apparently Michael Fry was
still in the car and he was he was he
wasn't apparent he was still in the car and he

(01:39:05):
had been shot. And a guy named rich Morrissey, uh
was the officer from east Chester, was shot in the head,
laying by the side of the car. But you can
ask those guys Jim Carmony and Keith Broderick. I think
we're we're up on top when they got there with
the peacekeeper, so they would know. So anyway, we got

(01:39:28):
got our r EP in position. Now we didn't have
heavy weapons and so we had to make our way up. Well, first,
you know, we hunkered down with the Tuckaho cops because
Tuckaho and Eastchester right and right on the border there
was a Tuckho sergeant. He'd said shots coming from the
window up there in that house. So he and sure
enough some shots came out again, and so I said Dave.

(01:39:53):
David was the driver. So we had a bunker and
very little gear in that r P. So I said
to Dave, I said, you know, I heard that the
truck is here. And an officer, Mike Watts, was the
show for that day for truck four, and the truck
was up on the hillside. So there's I ran up there.
I said to Mike, Uh, I said what do you got?

(01:40:15):
And he said what do you What do you guys need?
And I said, well, Dave wants an empty five, which
is fine, but I said I'll take a Mini because
where we're at we were down below where the house
was set up on a hill and and uh uh,
so I grabbed a Mini and went went and as
I was going there there was a neighbor he grabbed me.
And there's actually a picture in uh my wife has

(01:40:38):
it in an album somewhere. Uh me's standing with the
mini and the helt and my chin strap dangling John Wayne.
I felt so guilty of that because it didn't to me,
it didn't look good. So I'm standing with a mini
in the and the neighbor was telling me how to
get to the back of the house the best way.
So when I got back down to Dave, I gave
him the MP five and and uh we we kind

(01:41:00):
of hunkered down there until Brian Wall came. He was
the sergeant. Well, actually no, we didn't hunker down yet.
We got there and the Tucko sergeant told me, you know,
you know where he was firing from. So I said
to Dave. He said, Dave, cover me. I'm going to
go up on the if you're facing the house up
on the hill, there was a a warehouse on the right.

(01:41:22):
I said, I'm going to go alongside the warehouse and
try to make my way along the back of the
house next door that had an eight foot fence. So
I managed to get up there and get her get
get an eyeball on the back of the house, but
it wasn't a good position to be in, so I
made my way back down. I think he threw a
few more shots down and H. At that point, I

(01:41:42):
was just trying to get to a good safe spot again.
Got hunkered down with Dave again and I said, Dave,
you know, cover me again. I'm going to make my
way up to H the left side of the house,
you know, And that's where the neighbor had told me
we originally go. And uh so, but I didn't think
it was safe enough because it was more open. It

(01:42:04):
wasn't open tory because it was tree lined. There was
some trees scattered about. But I used the trees to
get my way up there, and uh got to the
back of the house and I could see the window,
you know, the open window, and uh, I caught a
glimpse of moving around that room, so I knew he
was still there, but I couldn't get a shot at him,
and obviously didn't take a shot at me, so I

(01:42:26):
didn't turn fire or anything. So I hunkered there for
a bit until Brian Wall got there. And Brian Wall
showed up with a couple of guys from truck three.
And then now this is right after the merge and
and uh one of the guys was Rodell Glover.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
I get him on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
Yeah, a great guy, Rodell, and uh that was the
first time I met Rodell. And so anyway, I ran
back down the hill and said to Brian, you know,
sergeant I saw Sergeant Wall. I said, I know how
to get back up there. If I know. I told
him I was going to go back up there, I said,
because there's nobody covering the back of the house. Everybody's

(01:43:04):
on the front end. And the peacekeeper was coming in
with Jim Carmy and those guys, and uh, well, anyway,
uh he said, you know, take somebody with you. And
I looked around and if you knew Rodell, he was
it was in great shape. And uh. And so we

(01:43:25):
made our way up, little by little, We're making our
way up. But at that time, Rodell had a plate
face for face protection. I think it was, uh anyway,
I think it was. I might have been level three.
I'm not sure, a level three face protection. And uh,
I think he I'm trying to remember because he didn't

(01:43:48):
he didn't have a radio with him because it was
short on radios and I had a radio, and I
was trying to talk to him to tell him to
move his way back up to me. As I got
into a better position, and I'll cover him so he
could come up to me, and and and we couldn't
talk to each other too easy, and I think the
face play was hard to talk through, so I didn't
understand what he was saying. Finally we were able to

(01:44:08):
get close enough to talk, and I said, I'm gonna
get to the deck under the deck of the house,
you know, and and that's what we want. And actually
I'm sorry. Prior to that being up at the back
of the house was when they went to move Michael
Fray Oh get Rich Morrisey out of it from behind
the car. I knew Rich Morrisey through his family. That's

(01:44:31):
how I remember it was him. I was there, and
so when they made their move, I had said to
Captain Wargo. He was saying, is there anybody behind the house,
And that's when I answered up on the radio to
Captain Warbo, I said, I'm behind the house. And I
can't remember saying Lieutenant Green and I'm at I'm at

(01:44:52):
six o'clock on the house. And they're like, because they're
on the other side, and they're thinking six o'clock would
be the front of the house if you're looking at
it as a clock, So it was got a little
confusion at first, and I had to say, okay, I'm
at twelve o'clock. And that's when they said they were
going to move up and get Morsey out, I think,
or maybe it was when Frey was being moved out.
One of them was going to be moved out, and

(01:45:14):
they lit up the house and I was below ground,
on ground level because of the basement, and I remember
just crunching down and hearing the shots. I was like, okay,
all right, you know it's gonna be friendly fire. Now
maybe that's his house. But it was a pretty wild
well night. But then I was able to go back

(01:45:34):
down and get Rodell and come up, and that's most
of that night, me and Rodell, and then eventually West
just the County Pete had some guys and we covered
that house from We covered the back of that house
from that position mostly night.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
Definitely a tragic job. But one of the things that
it does highlight, as I was reading a little bit
further information Officer Fray, is that ESU can really go
anywhere within the immediate area if it costs for it.
Like the first time I remember hearing about that is
Bob Masucci was on a number of years ago from
one truck another very solid guy. Yeah, you know when

(01:46:13):
I've heard stories like that, Scott Sinks another one he
told me about, you know, when they went mutual aid
to New Jersey after a particularly bad hurricane in nineteen
ninety nine, Bob Masuci had a building collapse in Jersey.
Truck one Lenny was one of the guys that was
leading the rescues in Jersey. And then here you are
down in east Chester. It's outside your jurisdiction. But listen,
I can say this comfortably. The old saying is when

(01:46:34):
the people need help, they call the police. When the
police need help, they call the Emergency Service Unit. When
they mean police, they don't just mean New York City police.
It could be police anywhere. When the police need help
in ESU can help, ESU will be there, doesn't matter
if it's NYPD, poor Authornity police in this case east Chester,
ESU will be there. And that's one of the many
things I love about the unit. You know, I always

(01:46:56):
like asking this to guys that gained some time and
eventually got to a sweet spot in their career at
least within the unit, to where you were again tried
and tested by this point quite a bit with your background,
just what you did on patrol even before you got
your emergency, and obviously everything else before that. But being
an email is different because you're basically a jack of

(01:47:17):
so many different trades. What was the point in your
career an emergency where obviously you never feel like you
know everything. If you feel like that, you got to
get yourself around to check. But was there what was
the point where you felt finally, Okay, you know, I'm
comfortable here, I feel like I belong here.

Speaker 2 (01:47:33):
I had a great bunch of guys in Trump four,
you know, and all the squads over there, and when
whenever you if you had an issue with something, you
know someone was quick to help you, no matter what
right and if well, I guess about the five year mark,

(01:47:54):
is it normally like when you're feeling really feel like
you know you've earned enough time to open your mouth up,
say what you need to say, and if you know,
if you had if you felt you had the right answer.
But I'd say, you know, most guys, you know, if
you had the right answer and you felt you the

(01:48:16):
right answer and you raised yancy, it was they listened,
you know, but you know the first year, it's best
to keep your mouth shut and your eyes and ears
open and absorb what the senior guys are around the
table are talking about or on a job, you know,
whatever they need to get it done for them. You know,
that's that's a good practice.

Speaker 1 (01:48:37):
Oh yeah, oh yeah. I mean to be a fly
on the wall in the RP really any era, but
especially that era, you know, especially at the city was
making it turn around during that mid late nineties period
heading into the new millennium. I like asking this to
any cop who was in the s U and either
three and four truck or nine and ten truck, the
details if there was one to Yankee Stadium, especially during

(01:48:58):
that period. There's a lot of big playoff games going
on the day Yankees dur in the middle of a
Dynasty four championship in five years. Any stories from any
Yankee playoff games during that era or not, really we
got detailed there as much.

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
I was before nine to eleven. I was on the
six sixty team. It's a show range, you know, you know,
the rifle was not the long range team. And most
of the time my partner was Vinnie Dan's and he
was a met fan. I was a Yankee fan, so
we we had a lot of chatter back and forth,
especially on Subway series. Vinnie was a great guy. And
there's a picture of Vinnie up up on top of

(01:49:31):
Shay Stadium with his radio on his side. I took
that picture, and somewhere along the way the picture he
took of me is lost. But yeah, I always remember
that picture. Every time I see it reminds me that
days would be up on both stadiums.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
It was fun during that period too, because both teams
were very good. There was a legitimate already back then
between nineteen ninety seven and two thousand, especially in nineteen
ninety nine two thousand, of who was the better team,
which was alto settled in two thousand where the right
team won in that meticular matchup for the World Series.
A couple of comments in the chat, John Scravani says,
Heist is looking good, Rich great stories from the legend.

(01:50:12):
John was not a little while ago. John, I love
talking with him.

Speaker 2 (01:50:16):
Prior to nine eleven, I fractured my skull and uh,
you know it was on an elevated job. Tommy Flannery
is my partner, so uh it knocked the sense out
of me for a while, and I thought it was
gonna put me off the job, you know, going through
the MRIs and whatnot, and they were leaning towards getting
off the job. But nine to eleven happened, all hands
on deck, and I got to work with great guys

(01:50:37):
like John Scravanni when he came back as a solegeant.
And uh yeah, also that that was just a reminder
to me. Yeah, sometimes being hitting ahead reminds you too.

Speaker 1 (01:50:48):
I think we've all had always like that. And Steph
says it takes two years to learn how to fly
the Space Shuttle, in five years to learn to be
a good man. I think that happened, and he would know.
Steph would certainly know. You know, the day itself is
of course the story in and of itself. But I
think what was interesting is just the day before September tenth,

(01:51:09):
two thousand and one, being with these guys, you know,
not knowing that for those guys to be, you know,
right before their last day, their last normal day, you know.
And again we know as well, as often is the
case with jobs, or with these jobs, I should say,
FD and PD, we know how these gentlemen died. But
one of the things that this program likes to focus

(01:51:30):
on is how they lived. You had the chance to
work with a lot of these guys, all fourteen of them,
uploads and personal. I'm sure some of the Port Authority
Police CSU guys as well, but just fourteen from the
NYPD side. You know, tell me about your favorite memories
of each of the guys that you had the chance
to work with, especially guys in four truck like Stephen John.

Speaker 2 (01:51:47):
Yeah, you know, god man, I tell you awesome guys.
But also you know, guys from FDNY, from the team
when I was on the FAMO team.

Speaker 1 (01:51:55):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:51:56):
Yeah, so I knew you know, Chris Blackwells. It's so
many guys. But but back to our guys, you know,
fourteen guys. Man. I say, the day before I was
in def tech training, UH distraction device training. We had
to get recertified on it. And you know, Rodney was there.
Rodney was my boss as a sergeant. I knew him
when he was a cop, you know and uh and U.

(01:52:19):
But he was my boss as a sergeant and truck
four for about a year, you know, before we went
down to eight and uh, awesome guy. So and Rodney
was excited because Third Watch was playing that night and
he had his first speaking spot and he was all
excited about that, and uh, you know, there was you know,

(01:52:41):
it's I happened to do a day tour that day,
uh you know, and and do that class. We're a
lot of the guys in that class were on a
day tour in that class. We're going to be doing
day tours the next day. And I didn't know that well,
but so I you know, I knew a lot of
guys in that class that day.

Speaker 3 (01:53:03):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:53:04):
But when I came back from that class, I got
back to Truck four and I had to go down
for an event down in Lower Manhattan with Patty McGee
from one truck, and I had to meet up with
Tommy Sellon started to sell them from six and a
guy named uh, oh boy, what's his name? He was
from Bronx Homicide. It'll come to me it might be

(01:53:26):
the fracture skull thing. Uh. Well, anyway, so I when
I got back to four. John Coglin, who was a great,
great guy, awesome guy for Marine he had given me
when I broke my hand, uh year or two before
John gave me the book, Well, he kept on me.

(01:53:46):
He got to read the book Flags of Our Father.
He knew how much I cared about the flag, he
knew how much I was dedicated to our country and
getting you know, being being a marine. And uh so
he was on me and we were working opposite squads.
He was a sergeant for Squad three and I was
in second squad. So I and when I got got back, well,
when I broke my hand, he shoved the book my hand.

(01:54:08):
When I came into the health services down the hall
in the five zero from truck four, and he says,
now you got time to read it? Read it? And
I did. It was an awesome book, right what those
marines went through. I'm you Regima, and you know. Well anyway,
uh I sat with John for a bit and he says, hey, hey,
you want to do date day too tomorrow? You know,

(01:54:30):
because I switched squads, you know, and I love to
work with those guys, you know, I wanted to. And
I and the reason why I wasn't was I was
doing it die. I couldn't make the change. So I
was doing a dive refresher courts and I had to
be at fourteen hundred hours out of Floyd Bennerfield. I
would have loved to have gotten out of it. Okay, Uh,

(01:54:50):
because it took from where I lived up in Bruceter,
New York. It was a tough ride to get out
to Floyd Bennerfield. But the reason why I had something
to do that night, I knew that, you know, you
know that if I went for the dive refresher and
by the time I got out, I would be able
to make what I had to do. And uh so
John was army. He says, I can make it. I
can make it work. I said, John, I better or not.

(01:55:13):
You know, I kind of blew it off another time
and I'll just I'll stay with it, you know. And
uh uh that was the last time I saw John.
And that night We'll going back to Steve. Steve had
a boat, and I lived up in the Brewster area
and he lived over and uh Lake Carmel and uh

(01:55:36):
and he had a boat and he loved his boat
and he had it on Canawood Lake. And he called
me up about two weeks before nine eleven, maybe it
was a week or so. Franco Barroducci would know because
he bought the boat, right So, Uh, anyway, Steve called
me up. He says, come on, come on, come on
a boat, Come on the boat. And uh, I, I

(01:55:56):
swear to god, I wish I had been on that
boat that day with uh. He was just an awesome guy.
We had a lot of fun times together and I
but anyway, anyway, so a lot of guys that day
that I had seen, and one of them was a
young new guy in the Issue. And when I came

(01:56:18):
back from the event I had to go to with
Tommy Sullivan, we parked our cars at one truck, were
over to pub Uglies for a little while. Came back
to one truck and Brian McDonald was out sweeping the
ramp and we started talking to him, and we're an awesome,
awesome young man, you know. And and that was the
first time I got to really know him and understand him.

(01:56:39):
And he was so dedicated and so happy to be
in the Issue. And the other thing was that, you know,
he was in the Second Airborne, so you know, so
proud of me. Yeah, yeah, and uh, and I knew
a lot of guys that were in the military and
a Second airborhen we talked about it a lot, and
and uh, yeah, it was you know, unfortunately, the last
time I saw Brian too, and Paul Tulty. I met

(01:57:01):
him a couple of times, and and he was John
English's cousin, so uh and John English another awesome guy.

Speaker 1 (01:57:08):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:57:09):
Yeah, I was proud to be on John's team apprehension
team and be picked for his team right after nine
to eleven. It's you know, the first fourteen days I
was on Lankin's John Lankin's team, Yeah, you know, doing recovery,
you know, looking for actually rescue you know, well, we
weren't really rescue on anybody, but you know, we go

(01:57:30):
into the breaches down below. Uh. And the first day
we were sent down below. John one White was a
sergeant on the team too, and uh uh, Richie Hartigan,
Kevin Donahue and Franco Mareducci. Uh, they were on that

(01:57:53):
team as well. I don't know if you want me
to go into that, but you know about the because
I'd like to finish.

Speaker 1 (01:58:01):
Up with the guys, whatever you want to do.

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
It's a solemn time every year, you know, when you
think about those guys, because they were just some awesome,
awesome guys. Of course, of course, and uh, Mike Curtin
after the shooting in Brooklyn, I was. I was at
the you in General Assembly that right after that the

(01:58:28):
Brooklyn shooting in two thousand and Mike grab me and
he goes, hey, hey, hey, listen, I know you know,
I know you're thinking about switching trucks and going down
to working Jimmy Spratts squad in second squad. But he goes,
you gotta work with me, you gotta work, you gotta
come and and he goes, I want you to partner
up with Vig. I said, oh, Mike, man, well, I

(01:58:49):
actually almost have me convinced, you know, but uh, I
had an issue at home. It was going to work
out that well for me to go to the third
squad for the for the days off, you know. So
so I called Mike and I said, like, you know,
I said, I'd love to I'd really love to work
with Vidge any day, right, I said, But the thing is,
you know, Mike, you want to pull back the leash

(01:59:11):
on on on Joe, You'll have to pull back the
leash on both of us, because when you said us
both of lost truck area, we're gonna have a blast together.
And I wish I had that chance. Yeah, I wish
I had that chance.

Speaker 1 (01:59:25):
When you mentioned Steve Driscoll earlier. A lot of people
don't know this, but Steve Driscoll was actually a street
crime guy before you.

Speaker 2 (01:59:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:59:31):
Yeah, he's in street crime for a bit. A lot
of people don't know that street street crime which SENSE
is defunct, that went out in two thousand and two
and Commission Kelly disbanded it. UH was part of SOD
so you could stay within the Special Operations Division, going
from street crime which was a citywide unit, to emergency service,
which is something that Steve did. He joined the s U.

Speaker 2 (01:59:53):
A lot of awesome guys, A lot of awesome guys
came in a street and Steve was definitely so awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:00:00):
No, I've heard a lot of great stories about him.
There's a John Coughlan story that Franco told me, and
I've heard a lot between yourself and a lot of
other guys who work with him, Steve Lenos and many
other guys too. But Franco tells a great story, and
I'm paraphrasing. You can go back for all of those
of you in the audience and check out the story.
And from my interview with him last year where John

(02:00:20):
Coughlin kept asking Franco for jars of his mother's sauce,
and Franco just kept forgetting because you know, people get busy,
life's happening, you get a lot of stuff going on
day to day. Franco would always forget, which annoyed Sergeant
Coglin to no end. So there's an DP job where
Franko I believe, is the lead bunker and the guy
had a big knife, but he had thrown something on

(02:00:42):
the floor. I think he threw water on the floor.
Whatever comes in and Franco as he's going in to
get the guy slips on whatever the liquid was and
goes down. So the DP actually I think he has
two knives. As I remember Franko telling me he is
coming down stab and stab and stabbing. He's thankfully stabbing
the bunker and not Franco. John Cocklin, who was for
those of you that don't know, John Convict was an
amby strong man. You know. John, using his tools and

(02:01:05):
also his natural strength, was able to corral the guy
without incident. Nobody was hurt, thank god, not even the purple.
So the next day, to express his gratitude, Franco brings
in the sauce finally, and Sergeant Cogla just looks up
and goes, Geef, Franco, is this what it took from
me to finally get some jars of sauce? So I've
always remember that story's actually a very very cute story

(02:01:26):
that Franco, amongst many great ones about all those guys
and the you know when you mentioned two truck. Vigiano
of course shot three times in the line of duty,
one of the more decorated guys in the departments had
there's John de Lara as well, and John Delara, you
know again, another guy that there was plenty of great
stories about. If you look at the operations of the

(02:01:47):
r m I, you kind of have to trace it
back to both Sergeant Hargrove and John Delara. Originally was
al Baker's invention, but in the early nineties De Lara
decided Demanuel had to be rewritten, so him and Sargant
Hargrove sat down and rewrote it. And I think a
lot of what they included in that manual. I'm sure
it's been altered since in the course with the times,

(02:02:08):
but a lot of what they originally wrote in the
nineties is still in operation today. And for those of
you that are familiar with the NYPB Cops episodes from
nineteen ninety four. When they're doing the Bad Boys introduction,
you can see John the back of him. It's not
the front, but he's wearing the E two are my best.
He's actually driving at the opening. So that was his baby.
That was, you know, one of his proudest things.

Speaker 2 (02:02:28):
So Mississippi months with John up at Camp Smith.

Speaker 1 (02:02:32):
Yeah, just yeah, a lot of funny stories I've heard
about it. I would have loved to have had him
on the show. I know I would have had a
lot of Yeah, yeah, for sure on that one. Before
I continue with nine to eleven, you do you did
mention that shooting in August of two thousand. It's another
job that people kind of for, not those who were there,
but because of what happened the next year. It gets

(02:02:53):
lost in the shuffle of it sometimes, but this was
August twelfth, two thousand. If I'm not mistaken. There was
a guy in his forties, his parents, he had a
history of emotional problems. This was just a day where
as I told both Joe's Gara and Dolan, nobody won here.
Everybody lost in the end. It was just a tough day,
but he was he was having emotional problems in his
mid forties. His parents had trouble controlling him, called the police.

(02:03:16):
I believe he had a shotgun on him. A shooting
and shootout I should say, ensued where multiple officers were
hit and finally the purp was shot and killed, which
is something that ESU prides itself on not doing. It's
always the last resort, but just being there that day,
and if you don't want to tell the whole story,
that's fine, it's just anecdotes from that day in your perspective.

Speaker 2 (02:03:35):
Well, very quickly, very quickly, I'll say this. I'm trying
to get this quickly. Several times I've been asked to
write a book and peg teer who was the who
was the reporter who did a three page article on
my shooting? A year after the shooting for Shooting Newsday
reporter did a phenomenal three page article. Shouldn't get everything

(02:03:58):
right when people write about that, They normally don't right
unless you write it yourself. After nine to eleven, h
Robin Moore had taken me out uh to dinner. And
he's a great author who wrote Green Berets French Connection,
A happy Hook and whatnot and became movies. And he'd

(02:04:22):
offered me to write a book about my career at
the time, and and uh and I I turned him down,
but uh, and a lot of people like you turned
He wrote The Green Beridge became a movie, The French
Connection became a movie. And when we became very good friends,

(02:04:42):
and my wife and I actually we went to his
funeral in two thousand and nine and it was and
and uh his wife Helen, who was very good friends
with both Trichy and I. Uh, you know, let me
say this. So so there were other books that were
written that I didn't that I didn't participate in, and

(02:05:06):
my name was mentioned, and they may not have gotten
it right what was going on, right, But when Bravehearts
was being written, Cynthia Brown, I wasn't supposed to be
in the book. Ray Kelly had assigned me to help
her with the book and pick the guys at men
and women for that book, awesome men and women that

(02:05:27):
I had worked with in my career at some point. Right.
And then when I came back from Haiti, ray Kelly
and Cynthia wanted me in the book. And they told
Teresa had convinced me to be one of the chapters
in the book, and that's why I'm in that book.
But I shared some things about my life with Cynthia,

(02:05:48):
But when it came to the shooting on August twelfth
in two thousand, most of that she got from the
forty nine that was written past forty nine written. Uh,
Chief Fox said, I was great man. Chief Fox wanted
putting me in for the metal of Honor. I would

(02:06:10):
I had gotten the Combat Cross for that shooting. And
and uh, I know how that job ended, okay. And
I know, and I've been told by guys like Seth
Garr and bobby's Ajak, who was the bunker team outside
inside the house, we're able to see the end of
that shooting. And Patty McGee and Greg Welch were in

(02:06:35):
the backyard with me. I actually I ran past them
when I jumped off the porch the deck from above.
When you want me to go into a little.

Speaker 1 (02:06:45):
Bit, yeah, as much as you want to me.

Speaker 2 (02:06:49):
So I originally went out there with Joe A. Cassio
and I had my six sixty rifle. I was put
on the roof with John Lambkin. Joe Mantazo reached out
and if I would come down and ground my rifle
and be a bunker to make entry on the house.
And he said, who you with And I said, uh,
I'm here with a cassio. He was not because I'm

(02:07:12):
putting with somebody else and and uh so I said,
you know all right, he said. I said, I'll go
get a bunker, but I don't have a glock with
a light. So I went to seven Truck and the
show for that day, Danny Mullay, a phenomenal guy, went
to sts with I asked Danny for a clock with
a light, and when I got back to Malta, he said,

(02:07:37):
your job is to get is deep into the house
as you can, to get to the basement door and cover.
That's what we think he is now. He had he
had many fourteen. He bought a brand new Mini fourteen,
and when we made entry in that house, that many
fourteen in style a house, so we knew if he
wasn't in there, he didn't have that many anymore, but
he had he had a handful of guns and knives

(02:07:57):
and swords down in the basement when we finally made
entry on there. But he wasn't in the house anymore.
When we made entry. So after we cleared the house,
after I went down to the baseball player and I
went out the back to the backyard and I was
hanging out there and Joe and I met up together
again because I came down with him and he had

(02:08:17):
the Mini. He had a Mini fourteen and uh, I
think he was put at the back of the stack
on that entry, I think. But anyway, uh so I'm
standing in the backyard with Joe Uh Keller Her who
was the acting commissioner.

Speaker 1 (02:08:36):
Right right, saf just retired, Yeah, right, he was.

Speaker 2 (02:08:40):
He was looking for another job, I think. I think
he was still the commissioner, but but Keller was filling
in as the acting commissioner. Joe Dunn who was chief
at department that time, and Jack Scanley who was Chief
patrol and he was my CEO with my first shooting
before four, and he introduced me to Keller Her and
when we were talking as one of his guys and
Chief Joe Dunn, and then we heard the shots. They

(02:09:04):
went out to the street side. I said, Joe, come
with me, and we went to the back of yard
where the fence was, and I still heard the shots,
and then I heard somebody you. Oh no, I heard
the shots right the next volley, I think it was,
And I climbed over the fence and I ran through

(02:09:26):
and there were tomato plants. There were two dogs, and
it happened to be the purpse dogs. One was a
pit bull and one was a Golden Retriever. They both
jumped on me. They ran up on me, and I
shot one through the you know one first, and pushed
the other one away and and uh with with the

(02:09:46):
bunker and just shot one of the dogs and they
both ran away. Unfortunately, I shot the Golden Retriever through
the stomach. It survived, I found out later on. And
I felt bad because I think the pickbull was the
aggressive one. That Golden Tree was probably trying to lick me.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:10:04):
You almost broke my heart there, but thankfully.

Speaker 2 (02:10:06):
Right right right, I love gold Tree was great dogs,
old dogs. Anyway, I got up on the back of
the back deck and it turned out to be the
house next door that he had shot Joe Pacossia, I
mean Joe Guerian and I wasn't with that team. And
there's the story because later on at the hospital, Joe

(02:10:27):
Joe Dolan tried to hand me. A many fourteen says
here you dropped this, and I said, I didn't have
a mini. I don't know who had a mini. I
know you know, you know Joe had him, anybody I
know he didn't drop it. Well anyway, so I was up.
If I'm saying too much, you know, if I'm talking
too much, it's time you have left. But well, anyway, uh,

(02:10:50):
I got up on the deck. I was by myself
at first, and I heard some of the yell He's
going away, He's going away, He's going away. So I'm looking.
I camped at the bunker to my left, and I'm
looking out, and I had a smith on my as
my side arm, and I'm el a smith. But I'm
looking out because I wanted the glock light because it
was just starting to get dark before we went into
the house, and I knew it was going to be dark,

(02:11:12):
so that's why I asked Danny for a clock with
a light on it. And so I'm looking, looking, looking,
and all of a sudden, boom, the first blast from
the shotgun came from my left and I could see
through the port to flash the muzzlefly boom when it
went off, and I went ah, there you are. And
so I started to engage him and I got a

(02:11:32):
few shots off with the with the glock and it's
stove I think it's stove piped on me. They don't
really know. I know, I don't remember if they ever
figured it out. But it was a stove pipe though,
and it jammed. At that point, Joe came up alongside
my right and Billy Fisher wasn't there yet, but Joe

(02:11:54):
came up alongside my right put the mini up. Well,
I yelled at I said, I'm out, I'm out. And
that that's when I went back to Chris Christ and
Burke and Brent with the with the tactics instructors. I
told him later on, and I don't like that idea
anymore because every time I said it was out, the
guy would fire the shot at me. Anyway, I took.
I took the glock that jammed right, and when I

(02:12:18):
realized it was it was a stovepipe, I threw it down.
And then I started engaging with the other smith, my smith,
and uh. After I completed going, we were lobbying back
and forth, right and and uh and so with with
with my smith. Now, I kept trying to engage him,

(02:12:39):
and then I yelled, I'm out, and I dumped the magazine.
I thought I was out when the stovepiped on the
glock the first time. That's why I said I'm out
the first time. And he fired up at us and
and I I took the glock to think I had
to do it. Uh, you know, magazine change, but I didn't.
That was the old style too, was to put the
handgun and and uh, while you're holding the holding the bunker,

(02:13:03):
put in here holding your thumb. And if you dumped
the mag and slamming the one in right, well anyway, Uh,
I went back to engage on the first lobby with
the the with the smith, and I saw him and
I said, hit him. Joe hit him because I yelled first. First,
I yelled I'm out, and I dumped the mag and

(02:13:24):
I go to change over again and I'm looking through
the port and I'm yelling hit him, Joe hit him. Joe,
and Joe lining the mini up and fired down at him. Okay,
didn't hit him. Okay, but that that he I don't.
I don't even know if Joe got that round off
at that point. I know that men he kept going
off on both sides of my head. Because eventually Billy

(02:13:44):
Fisher adminds they were both going off like this. Uh uh.
When I look when that shot shot came up, when
Joe leaned up on my bunker, when that shot came off,
my bunker went flying, okay, and Joe went his ants
went up like that, and that's when he got hit

(02:14:05):
in the thumb. I think the first time he got hit. Okay,
he stayed in the battle. Joe stayed in the battle
after he got hit first time, right, and uh so
I continue to engage without the bunker, and they continued
to shoot. By that time, Billy Fisher was up on us.
You know, we were trying to engage him. And anyway,

(02:14:28):
Billy tried to push me against the wall, and I
said the second time I said it was out. I
dumped the magazine. I yelled him out right, and he
and he to another shot up at us. Okay, I I.
Billy tried to push me against the wall, yelling get cover,
get cover, get cover. But I lined up on him
because by that time he was starting to one feed

(02:14:51):
the shot on one at a time. He didn't have
time to load up and fill the shot and up right.
So he was doing one at a time. So he
his crouched down in the in the in the stairwell,
uh three foot uh retainer wall stairwell.

Speaker 3 (02:15:07):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:15:07):
And he had it was perfect, perfect point for as
a marine fields of fire. He sat in a three
foot high stairway outside basement door, okay, and he had
the whole backyard and to our to his right was
a chain link fence and us on the deck. We
had a high point on him. But that was his
weakest point. But his left side, his his weak side

(02:15:31):
was if you were a left handed, right handed shooter,
his weak side was an eight foot fence. So he
you know, he had plenty of cover that way, he
had top cover right and uh, but he had us
to engage now right. But so when he was trying
to load, he was kind of crouched in and I

(02:15:51):
was like, wait, wait, wait, I lined up, I lined
my gun up and boom. I got one shot off
and hit him in the back. That's that's the around.
It went through his back and he rolled and went
ah and and uh, and he got in tight. So
I I got him. I got so by that I
think he got one more shot off and then by

(02:16:13):
that time, I think Joe had got hitting a leg
and Billy had helped him back and had gotten him back.
And I was up on the deck by myself at
that point, so I realized, I'm in my last magazine.
I got into something, so you know, I yelled, yeah,
we need, we need, not we need, we need. This
was I'm sorry. Before I went into I was in
my second magazine. We need, we needed stunned distraction device.

(02:16:38):
We need a distraction device, you know, yell and screaming.
And apparently Greg Welch heard me, right and threw a
distraction device at him. And I was hoping it would
get into the wheel into the well with him when
it would go off, and was scared and to stand
up right. Well it didn't. It hit a bike and
I'm looking down at the bike when it hit the
bike and bounced back and it went off. It blinded

(02:17:00):
at first, you know, because boom it went off, and
I like kind of you know, frazzled a bit because
because of the bright flash, right, and he was the
part was sitting up against the door laughing, and I said,
this bitch is great. I'm sorry, this son of a gun,
This son of a gun is crazy, and of course
he was. But but uh so, but he realized, Okay,

(02:17:21):
sitting up nice sees me because I must have thought
I got blown off or something. I don't know. So
you know, I started shooting down and I'm with my
second bag. But when I yelled him out on the
third one, and and uh, that's when you know those
guys at that point around that times when Joe got
shot in the leg. I think because I swear every
time I yelled out him out reload, he was fire shot.

(02:17:43):
So that's what I'm pretty sure that's when Joe got
shot a leg. But Joe would be able to tell you.
I think you might go. I don't know, but if
you spoke to Joe, you have you know, have you
ever spoken the Joe.

Speaker 1 (02:17:56):
Gas I've had on too. Yeah, he's been on the show.

Speaker 2 (02:17:59):
I heard it. I didn't think I heard it, you know.
So anyway, I realized I'm in my last magazine. I
jumped down on it. I took maybe one or two
steps off that porch, that deck to the to the backyard.
I think I think I would have made not one
step because when I jumped, I think I just caught
one step and then got my traction going. I ran

(02:18:21):
past Patty McGee and Greg Welch were running well. Patty
was running towards me, and I wrote, you know, you
can't get the cell from here. So I went up
to the fence, went up over the chain link fence.
And John Cogan is the one that said this first.
He said, it was like Rudie Murphy. You did a
you flanked him. What that was? I went when I
got when I got into his yard, I went to

(02:18:42):
the other side of the yard fast as I could.
I played football in high school and I played lacrosse,
but and I ran a four to six. I think
I did a four to six with that heavy invest
in helmet on it. So I got to the other
side of that yard. And because I knew those guys
were there now that Greg was there and and and
uh Patty were under the deck that I was on,

(02:19:03):
so he was he was looking at them, and he
might have been trying to reload it as he was
looking at them. I came. I flanked him from that
other side of that yard and went right at him.
And when he turned to looked at me, it looked
like deer in the headlights. I had him and I
got about five or six shots. Yeah, I think there
was seven nine millimeters rounds covered, you know, from the

(02:19:25):
forty nine. And I was told this by uh, I
think inspections whoever, the firearms team whatever it was, you know,
the firearms investigation team. Well anyway, uh yeah, I think
I hit him straight on. I got like five or
six in the chest, I think, and he just kind

(02:19:47):
of crumpled over. I uh, I climbed down into that
well that will well, I mean the retainer wal well
and I checked for a pulse and that's when he
was laying there flat over on his side and and
I believe it was a mini round and went through
his cheek and came out boom. I was checking his
pulse and I was just getting up after checking his
pulse and it was so close boom. And then I

(02:20:10):
jumped back and put my hand thinking it was gonna
help me, my hand behind my neck. And that's when
some rounds went off against the house because you know,
they must have thought, other guys must have thought part
was still alive shooting. But I yelled out, he's dead.
He's dead. He's dead, you know, And that was the end.

Speaker 3 (02:20:25):
Of that job.

Speaker 2 (02:20:26):
And I stand up and everybody came from everywhere, everywhere.
The cavalry came everywhere else and uh, and I said,
I think I think trying to remember, I think it
was the Greve welch and I dropped the glock because
it jammed on me and Dave I held up my
held up the clock and he goes, I got it,

(02:20:47):
and I said, god, I gotta give that back to
day in the leg.

Speaker 1 (02:20:51):
But uh, that's how it's go ahead.

Speaker 2 (02:20:57):
Now, that's how that job and you know it's uh.
And then we were rushed off to the hospital and
that's when I I saw Joe in there and we
couldn't see Joe Guerre because he was in surgery. And
it was it was bad. It was a bad day,
but bad day all around, sure.

Speaker 1 (02:21:16):
But thankfully, you know, all of them are still with us,
Joe Gerras, who suffered very serious injuries this show. It's
a miracle, quite frankly, that Joe Gerra is still with us,
and we're certainly glad.

Speaker 2 (02:21:26):
To Oh yeah, I just saw him a couple of
weeks ago. And you know, we're a guy. He's a
good guy. Yeah, great heart too, man, We're a great heart. Yeah.
I was a rescue that he was in truckt I
was with that day before we got called out there.

(02:21:47):
Joe Cosak and I were in the same r e
P as a fly guys, so for in truck Trump
three that day and I worked with Joe that day
too Guerre and we had a barricade just before that,
and the captain actually put herself in the middle. And
when the apartment, we had a captain barricade in the
apartment the perp that was another story, but it was
quickly resolved. But but on our way back is when

(02:22:09):
it went off that job and and you know the desk,
you know, I got all of the desk and they
wanted me to go out with my six sixty rifle.
That's hype originally got involved for that job from the Bronx.

Speaker 1 (02:22:21):
I didn't like, I said, I didn't want to skip
over it. We were talking about nine to eleven. But
I'm like, you know what, as we said off there,
we would I did want to touch on the job
with you as well, because as those of you know
of the email interviews we've done previously, Vinnie Manko talked
about it. Both Joe's well, three Joes the Costio, Dolan
and Garrett talked about it. I knew you were there.
I didn't want to skip over your perspective either. But

(02:22:42):
getting getting back to September eleventh, before we move on
to a couple of other things, I wanted to talk
to you about for the rapid fire, you know, let
you take it from here. When exactly did you get
down to the trade center that day? I know you
had to go in later in the day originally before.

Speaker 2 (02:22:58):
Yeah, So when I I got home rather late that night,
and I was gonna try to sleep in because I
didn't get up. You know, I could sleep in because
I was doing a fourteen hundred uh start out at
Floyd Benfield and uh, my my ex wife at the time,
she yelled turned on the TV. And it was my
my youngest daughter was going off the nurse from school

(02:23:19):
and uh and she was getting her ready and and
uh and turned on the TV. I turned on the
TV and I saw the first plane crash. I thought
it was an accident at first, but I knew, okay,
the extent of that was going to be in all
hands and they'll probably need more people. And so I
was getting dressed, and then I saw the second plane hit,

(02:23:41):
you know, and I knew it was gonna it was bad,
right it was. We were being attacked. And I went
downstairs and and uh and I kissed, kissed him goodbye.
I kissed my little daughter goodbye before you know, and
and uh my wife gave me her lunch for me
to bring them. And it wasn't until a few days

(02:24:02):
later I saw the lunch sitting on the passer's seat
in my car, not realizing I never ate it, but
I shot into the bronze. I got to truck four
and it was on TV, and I believe we were
getting ready. I was waiting for Tommy. My partner was
Tommy Flattery before nine to eleven. It was my last

(02:24:24):
partner in truck four. And uh uh anyway, I I was.
I got dressed very quickly, and I think we watched
the second UH tower tower to come down first, but
it was the second UH tower that was hit and
they had come down, and I went downstairs to go

(02:24:47):
down to the trade center with John McCullough UH from
Truck four. He was he worked midnights and he was
loading up the pickup truck. UH truck truck for was
pickup truck with supplies and and Uh him and I
jumped in the truck and he drove. We went down
the west Side Highway and when we got down past

(02:25:07):
Chelsea is when the North Tower came down. Well we
got driving right into it. There was like the sea
party and people running. They were just moving out of
the way as as John drove in. And we made
our way into uh uh the marina, the North Coved Marina,
I think it's called. And we made our way on

(02:25:28):
the sidewalk there and that's when we saw Tony Johnson
with the late UH with one of our trucks by himself.
He was trying to wave guys who were at the
park and all that. And I ran up to the
front of the of the line and we were stacked
up because we were stacking up in that area, uh
on the sidewalk side uh east side of the marina.

(02:25:53):
And I ran up to the car and in the
car was at that time Captain Captain Y and Uh
and his driver was was Mike Hanson, and they were
in shot. They you know, they they you know, they
they were there when it all came down, you know,
and and Uh they were just kind of like sitting
there and and so I said, we we got vehicles

(02:26:17):
stacking up, and they're and they're still and there, they're
still coming. So we had to do something. So I
ran down to the side of marina, Uh, to the riverside,
uh on the west side of the marina there, uh
southwest side, and and there was all these benches there
and and I looked it was it was almost like
a clearing. Uh. We could put more vehicles in there.

(02:26:39):
So I ran back to Captain and said, listen to
the marina. We can we can move all the vehicles.
Start stacking them in there. And and so Mike got
the idea too, and I ran down in front of
them until we got to that point and uh he
said that Uh the benches, the benches, you know, and

(02:26:59):
you what, they were bolted down to the ground. And
I ran over and just started sliding them across the
brick uh facade the sidewalk kept sliding, the sliding, and
then I ran ran their car was there? Their vehicles there.
And I ran down towards Tony and said, Tony, come on,
you know and and uh and then we started stacking
vehicles and I thought that was gonna be our first

(02:27:21):
Temper headquarters, but then then they moved us to uh
Starves in High School. So most of the day we
were in and out from Stuyves and Tommy and I
I was with other guys before Tommy I met up
with Tommy, you know, you know, back and forth into
building six and back out and and and then then

(02:27:42):
at some point I married up with my partner Tommy
and UH and UH, so we were together in the
into the evening. We would go out to some areas
and do some move some vehicles and stuff so other vehicles,
bigger vehicles could get in and and then we went
back to Staves in High School for the rest of

(02:28:02):
the night, we thought, until we were told to go
back to Trump for we're gonna get more equipment, get
some rest. But we didn't want. We didn't want to rest,
neither one of us, one of the rest, none of us.
And that's when Sergeant John Spervani. And that night we
laid our heads down for the night in the gym,

(02:28:23):
a few of us, but I I had to come
back early with to be with the there was already
picked to go on to Lampkin's team and to start
early searches down down below where uh sergeant Portthoor sergeant
not con Forigure his name, yeah, where the here was

(02:28:45):
from covered Yeah yeah, Uh no, sergeant from Portathori recovered alive. Well,
they had survivors there, the two Portathorio officers that were there,
They sent us in below to go search below if
they figured, I get if there were survivors there, it
must be survivors down below. So we went down below
and uh, Richie and I were Richie Hardig and I

(02:29:08):
were tag team partners and we were we were carabbean
it together and you know we would get in try
to dig and move around. And uh we were down
on the sub level I think sub level four. Uh
where where Port Authority garages were the poor Thority p
D cards. I remember opening up one of their vehicles

(02:29:30):
and it scared me was the key was still in
the ignition and it and when I opened it up
if car started you know, you know when you opened
up a car door and it being being and uh, well, anyway,
so we did our searches down there, and they said
we can have a break, and Richie and I we
didn't want to take a break. But one one said,

(02:29:50):
Sergeant Wan White said now we're out of break. We'll
be in order to take a break. This was sometime
middle late morning or early in the afternoon, I can't
remember times then. And uh so we said, you know,
we know where we came from. What if we just
go out and try go out this way, we'll be
on our break. So one said, okay, okay, and we

(02:30:11):
made our way out to it. We found it opening,
and it was bright, lightly like the light of God,
you know, And and we crawled out there and we
were actually in the crater where both buildings had collapsed.
We made our way up the hill there and uh,
Richie and I and but prior to that, through the
night until we were sent to four, I kept looking

(02:30:33):
at the flag up on the stage s Don Stuyvesant
High School and just thinking, look what happened to our country,
you know, you know, and insignificant. Well, let'll get back
this up a bit. When we found out who was missing,
I'm saying, you know, these guys, they're still alive. They're

(02:30:54):
still alive. Mike Mike Curtain would hold the building up.
John Coddlin would hold the building up. If any dance
farm marine hold the building up. You know, these guys,
are you know then he was a steel worker, of course,
you know, you know, right. So when we got got
out of there, we came up the hillside there, I
mean the crater side, and and uh, I said to Richie,

(02:31:18):
I said, look the sphere it made it. It's still there,
the sphere the center was you know, that was the
center of ground zero, the sphere, right, he sat between
the two buildings. I remember that from the kid growing up.
You know, I'm doing class trips there, right, And uh
so the firefighter goes, yeah, and that's the antenna off
the north tower. So I looked at Richie, I said,

(02:31:38):
we're putting a flag up from Mike and the guys.
I went Mike to see a flag. And I want
those guys to see a flag because most of them
were military guys. Brian, not most of them, but you
know a lot of military guys. Brian McDonald the night
before Mike Curtain was a sergeant and uh and significant
to Mike. Mike when recovered the marine's body out in Oklahoma,
he wrapped that marine and an American flag, right, and

(02:32:01):
that was significant to why we were taking her. Uh
are are our guys out right? And then the controversy was,
you know why you know, but but I knew how
important the flag went was to Mike and John, you know,
so I wanted to see a flag. So I went
to one White said yeah, you know, we're gonna go.
We're gonna go get a flag. And he goes, well,

(02:32:22):
where are you gonna get one? I said, I don't know,
you know, And Richie and I went out on the Broadway.
We're looking at you know, buildings had their flags up there,
twenty four to seven with lights on them. I didn't
want to take a flag down. I was already up.
But I ran back to one with with Richie and
I said, uh, hey, we're gonna get a flag. We

(02:32:42):
think we don't we know where well stives high school
stage and I remember once said don't get don't get
in trouble. He was my sergeant on the eighteen for
a while too. Anyway, Richie and I ran back to
Staves in high school and not only back, Uh Tommy,
chief Portel. He goes, where are you guys going? So

(02:33:02):
I went over to Chief Hotel and I said to him,
I said, Chief, you know, he didn't stop us. We
were going to go get a flag. You know, and
uh from Mike and Mike and the boys. And he
looked at me and and he said, where are you
gonna get flat? I said, Stives in high school stage.
You go get that flag. And so I went to

(02:33:23):
Stives in High School and it was it was busy
because on the on the stage, that's where they had
all the maps, and they had engineers, and they had
you know, big boss I think, uh Pasketball was there.
I think I'm trying to remember all the big bosses
that were there. Well, anyway, but mccardo was standing there

(02:33:43):
and John. I know John a long time. I knew
him back when he was in the four four No
you know, and uh, and well anyway, John, Richie goes.
We better not. I said, no, just follow me. Follow me.
So I like a marine. I kind of marched up
the stairs, marched out down down across the stage towards

(02:34:05):
where the flag was, and it's in uh, in the stanchion,
and I grabbed the guide iron, and and Riccardo looked
at me, like, what the hell are you doing. I
lifted the flag up like I was supposed to do it,
and marched down and over to where Richie was and
we rolled up the flag because we didn't want to
make this wasn't a spectacle. We don't want to do

(02:34:26):
it for respective. We want to get a flag up
for those guys. And and uh we wrapped it in
a blanket. And as we were going out of Stives
and petelling his entourage are coming in and he and
he goes unfurl that flag. And I said, all right,
all right. I knew the reporters were down on a
corner there by Stives, So when we came out, I

(02:34:46):
don't want to keep it down low. I didn't want that.
And you know, I don't want anyway. I saw Sue
Scott and she had a pickup truck and and uh,
I said, Sue, can you give us a ride over
to uh uh church and day and and uh and
she said sure sure. So, because we had run all either,

(02:35:06):
we didn't want to run all the way back and
we didn't have a lot of time. So we were
back over there and uh into the checkpoint there. Now
they had checkpoints around. It was a frozen area around.
They tried to freeze it up and there was no
press allowed inside that frozen area. So when I got
out of the back of the pickup truck with Richie.
I said, Uh, I said to myself, I said, I'm

(02:35:29):
going to carry this flag with pride. So I unfurled
it and put it over my shoulder, loosely over my shoulder,
kind of held the bottom of it, I think. And
I walked in between building four and five, right towards
the sphear bless you and and uh so on the
way in a uh what I and this is another

(02:35:51):
thing but I didn't know is somebody about a few
years later had me up a CD UH called what
we Saw with Dan Rather and it says, and you
can see the back at me going in, but you
can't make out NYPD too much on my shirt because
my harness and everything. And uh they said, firemen bring
in the first flag of ground zero somewhere I had

(02:36:11):
that CD but but uh still but uh, I didn't
care where the fire PDD, I didn't care who it was.
The flag had to go out, right. So I walked
up and Richard tell you there was a battalion fire
chief there at the checkpoint, and uh, and he saw me.
He was looking at me, and I said, chief, if
if you don't if you don't mind, if you can

(02:36:32):
get me to fire me. We're gonna put with the ladder.
We're gonna put a flag up for our guys here,
because I knew firefighters that were on military too, and
four Marines, and uh so, you know, I wanted everybody
to see that flag, and I want everybody to lift
their heads up because we're gonna beat this, you know.
Well that's how I felt, you know. So we got

(02:36:52):
to the next portion where you had to walk across
a beam to where this poll was and uh ah,
and I was waiting there and with Richie, and when
these two firemen were bringing the ladder across that beam.
And if you if you fell off that beam, went
one floor down this side. If you fell aside, you

(02:37:14):
went two floors down. So I was curious to go through.
And you know, and you remember, it was a really
beautiful day outside the ground zero, but it was smoky
and went on hot and sweaty. So I fell bad
for these guys. And when they put the ladder up,
I almost handed the flag to a fireman to the fireman,
but Richie goes get up there, and I went out

(02:37:35):
there and as I uh went to put my put
the flag out, I'm saying what am I gonna do
when I get up here. But as I saw that
the pipe up up the cross section of it, it
was hollow. I tried to push it into there, but
it wouldn't fit. But as I did that, unbeknownst to me.
Now unbeknownt me, I didn't know anybody was taking pictures, okay,

(02:37:58):
but from what I from what I know is that
TARU was every one's assigned to help the FBI with pictures,
so they were the only ones allowed to have cameras,
and if you call with the camera, they would take
it away confiscated. So at that point Bill McNulty from
TARU was taking pictures and he quickly realized what was
going on and he told Andy Finn from TARU, hey, look,

(02:38:22):
and he was the videographer and he captured it on video, okay,
And at that time the Fire Battalion TV led out
Breeze at Arms and it's an awesome video. It's finally
released by the NYPD officially in twenty seventeen, but not
a lot of people have seen it out there, but
it's an awesome you know, you know, it just sends

(02:38:44):
a chill to you when all those guys saluting. You know,
it was everybody. They were firefighters, there were police officers,
there were sanitation Port Authority and NYPD and volunteer firemen
and construction workers, all of them saluting. I guess most
a lot of more military because they had some pretty
good salutes on them.

Speaker 6 (02:39:04):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:39:05):
Well, anyway, Uh we got the flag up and and
uh Bill McNulty told me a while back, not long
after nine to eleven, but he says, you know, I
was going to get you guys to see if you
guys would you know, get your names. And he goes,
I saw you guys going and they would bring blow

(02:39:26):
a whistle, fire whistle or they you know, they would
blow a horn three times. Man, everybody out of the site.
Something was coming down. So as we were he said,
he goes, he goes, I ran because they went off
three times when we had to get out of it.
But you guys just kept on going into you know,
to where we had to go and meet up with

(02:39:46):
our other guys. And said that because we had a
job to do. We knew liberty when liberty wasn't coming down,
we knew all that, and we felt that we just
wanted to get back to work and that was pretty
much for I think that was the story you were
looking for.

Speaker 1 (02:40:03):
Right, Yes, and I'm Steve Stephan ocus I'm gonna try
to display for my phone here, so I apologize the
qualities and that that I'm gonna try to get it
into the frame.

Speaker 2 (02:40:10):
This is the picture now that picture can I if
you got a few minutes, Yeah, that picture is not
me in that picture. Okay, I'll tell you a story
behind that. So so thank you Steph.

Speaker 1 (02:40:26):
Yes, thank you, Steff. I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (02:40:28):
Thank you, Steve. So A few weeks later, you know,
you know, the next few days, we start seeing flags
on me and Richie would wow, look at that. Look
at the flags. And I got up on the roof.
You know, we lowered the flag as little military guys.
We'll go up on the name of the building is.
But that big, long, big flag that draped down the
side of the building. I was a part of that,
but you know I stood back and just stood an

(02:40:50):
attention and it was lowered. I think Jimmy McKenny had
something to do with that, and another great guy. Right well, anyway,
a few weeks later, Richie and I I think we're
in the bottom of building six uh, sub basements like
six or six or seventh floor down there, pretty far down,
and we get a radio transmission Miller Hartigan up top,

(02:41:12):
you know, and uh, Richie and I look at each other.

Speaker 3 (02:41:16):
Like what did we do?

Speaker 2 (02:41:17):
You know? And I think Richie was like, what did
you do?

Speaker 1 (02:41:22):
Not men anything?

Speaker 2 (02:41:24):
Richie, I didn't do anything. Anyway, we get up top
and there were two suburbans there from the Commission's office,
like and then he's like, what did you do? Like
and I'm like, look what did you do? Because I
know I didn't do anything. I don't think. So anyway,
we get in the in the suburban, one of the suburbans,
and they bring us over to one PP and then
they bring us in and I didn't even as much

(02:41:47):
a many times I've been in one PP with chiefs
that I drove down there for a meeting or whatever.
I didn't know there was another elevator just for the commissioner, right,
but they brought us into that elevator, brough us up
to the floor and and uh so anyway, and we're
both looking at each other like one of us really
messed up. They they're doing especially just just for us.

(02:42:11):
So we get there and we get get up to
the floor and came out and who comes running up
was uh. I was gonna say chief done, but uh
first Deputy Commissioner Joe Dunn, right, and and uh and
he goes, rich come here, because he remembers me from
the year before, you know, from shooting and all and whatnot.
So he goes, come here, come here, come here, and
brings me over to this table. And on the table

(02:42:32):
is this instelling the commissions? Ie, I believe is that
picture blown up in a frame? And I look at Richie.
I go, Richie, look, somebody got a picture off flag.
That's cool, that's that's great, and and you know, and
uh done walks off.

Speaker 6 (02:42:50):
And uh.

Speaker 2 (02:42:52):
So we're standing there and uh and we're all excited.
Somebody got a picture our flag. And a guy named
John Body, I think about our body. You're trying to
remember how you see his name? But U he was
a He was a photographer for Carrock's book, Commissioner Krrot's book.
He was assigned from Taru to work on that book.

(02:43:12):
And I think some guys were a little displeased with him.
But he went looking for for the picture for the picture,
so he didn't think anybody had got a picture, but
the commissioner knew that Richie Hardingan and rich Miller put
up a flag. We put it up with a bunch
of people, but the commission knew was Richie Hargan rich Miller.
That's it right there.

Speaker 1 (02:43:32):
This is from Pizza Gready.

Speaker 2 (02:43:34):
Pete's right, thanks, Pete, thank you. So that's that day
right there. That's September twelfth, the next day.

Speaker 1 (02:43:44):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:43:45):
So so we're looking at the picture and he says,
sign the picture, and I said why And he goes
Commissioner character to put it in his book. And I
looked at Richards Ritchie man is going to put that
our flag in his book. I thought that was cool, right,
So he says to me, he goes, so sign the
picture and I said, uh, I mean me and Richie

(02:44:07):
were like we both looked at each other. We were like, no, no,
wait a minute, We'll get the guys that are in
the picture to sign up for you. And he goes, no,
that that's you guys. And we were like, I beg
to differ with you, guy, that ain't us. I mean
there was a lot of people around firefighters, sanitational guys.
There were you know, port authority cops, you know, that's

(02:44:28):
not us, and he was adamant it was us, and
I don't know what his motive was, right, but it
was going in Carrick's book. And I met with Carrid
just before he went he went away at his house.
I want, you know, to talk to him about where
that flag was at because it was missing. But that's

(02:44:49):
another story another day, I think. So anyway, uh, Dune
comes back over and he goes, what do you think,
what do you think? You know? Commissions gon to put
it in his book. I said, yeah, I heard that.
I just heard it from this guy here, and uh,
he goes, you got He goes, you guys are gonna
sign that and he said, well, you know what will
I don't know if it was rich your eye, but

(02:45:10):
we said, you know, well, I think we both said,
but we'll get the guys that are in the picture.
And he goes, what do you mean He said, well,
that's not us. He goes, what do you mean it's
not you guys? Is that the flag? I said, yeah,
that's our flag and he looked at body and he says,
I won't go into those words. But I don't think
he was too happy. And when I found out when

(02:45:33):
I found out later on mission Kerrick wasn't too happy
about that either. That wasn't the original forber but the
book already went to print.

Speaker 1 (02:45:41):
Mhmm, was this the lost son? I think that he
was working on at the time.

Speaker 2 (02:45:49):
I know he signed he signed the book to me.
I think it is.

Speaker 1 (02:45:53):
Yeah, yeah, pretty Carrick of course, former former forty Mission,
the NYPD party that he was Corrections Mission or too.

Speaker 2 (02:46:01):
So you know, we we weren't. Yeah, we weren't talking
about it. You know, Listen, putting up their flag didn't
make as heroes, so you know, and I didn't want
I didn't. I didn't feel like to be a spectacle
about it, either a dog and pony show about it
either or anything like that. That flag went up for
a reason for Mic and those guys, and that's why

(02:46:24):
I wanted to put the flag up, and and I
didn't do it along there was a bunch of other
people involved that didn't that flag up. And uh so anyway,
so about a year later, ah well, sometime along the way,
uh I got to see the video of the flag raising,

(02:46:46):
and it's awesome, I think, and just the terms of
chill for you when the that battalion chievals our present arms.
But about a year later, christianer Kelly is now the Commissioner,
and word came down from the Commission's office that d
CPI wanted me to speak to the press, and uh said,

(02:47:08):
I said, all right. So I did do a few reporters,
and I said, if you go negative about the fire Department,
I'm gonna shut the interview down. I'm not doing it,
because at that time they were calling them hooligans and whatnot.
And they you know, you know that they went through.
They was four three and four to three guys, and
I knew a lot of those guys. I knew not
a lot of us. I knew some of those guys.
And and uh I said, I'm not gonna go I'm

(02:47:28):
not going to go there. So you know, it kind
of rushed off the interviews because they were looking for
a story. All right. I don't care if the flag
I put up was first, second, third, fourth, or one
thousand later. I know why the flag went up. And
uh so a reporter came to my house invited because

(02:47:50):
she couldn't uh I, I didn't want to do it
over the phone anymore. And and uh but I said
to it right away, as said, you know, if you
go negative, and she brought her daughter with her. I said,
if you go negative on the fire department, I'm going
to shut the interview down. And we had a nice,
pleasant conversation. And uh so after my ex wife at

(02:48:14):
the time, she was making dinner. So she made dinner
and I said, stay for dinner, and so we talked,
and after dinner was over, she started asking, well, you
gotta have some remorse that or something like that, you
know that after you got credit for putting up a flag.
And I said, I went, that's it. That's it. I said,
that's it. I'm done. I'm done on the interview. And
that's what I told. I said, I'm gonna tell you,

(02:48:36):
and that's what I said to her. I said, I
don't care what's first, second, third, fourth, one thousand later.
If they put a flag up, that's great, you know.
And if we put a flag up and that inspired
their flag to go up later on the day, if
that was the case, I'm glad that we were able
to lift our heads up and get lifted heads up
everybody that was around there when the flag went up.

(02:48:56):
And if that flag lifted the heads up for other people.
That's all that mattered.

Speaker 1 (02:49:01):
So I think we have the video here. This was
from the NYPD Heroes video from the end of two
thousand and one, which is kind of pointed because James
Earl Jernales died today, who narrates of course those nypds.
You may remember him hero as always Heroes.

Speaker 2 (02:49:17):
I don't I don't think. I don't think it's in
that video because NYPD for a long time wouldn't release
that video from Taru. It wasn't until Little Boy Mark
Nell when Mark Nell was in was in d c
p I and I was contacted because PBR was doing

(02:49:41):
a one year recruitment drive for for the Border Patrol
and they were honoring Border Patrol agents and they wanted
to do a video on on a song of the
video called Never Forgotten. It's done by Ryan Weaver and
Ryan Weaver. It was a country music singer who was

(02:50:04):
a two star goal Star family. He lost his brother
in Iraq in two thousand and three in a helicopter
and when he was there as a helicopter pilot and
before his brother got out a helicopter, the last time
he seen him, his brother told him that you should
be following your career as a country music singer. Well, anyway,
his brother died in two thousand and three, and then
in twenty and thirteen, his brother in law was killed

(02:50:27):
in a helicopter in Afghanistan. So you know, two gold
star family right. And Ryan wrote a song called Never Forgotten.
You can google it. It's so they Ryan and PBR
wanted FDNY and a family from fdn Y and family
from NYPD. So they asked for our help, my wife

(02:50:49):
and I. My wife did most of the work on it,
and we got a friend of ours well, a fire
department family. And the other family I chose was Vinnie.
Dan's family has three girls. I wanted to know about
Vinnie and be honored with Vinnie with this video, okay.
And then we reached out to Angela and Kevin and

(02:51:11):
see what was okay, and they agreed, and it's an
awesome video and the song is awesome to have Never
Forgotten by Ryan Weaver.

Speaker 1 (02:51:20):
I have to check it out later. Let me know though,
because we'll play briefly. If it isn't, then it isn't.
But let me know if this is it. By chance,
we'll see if it is sure it's coming up right now.

Speaker 2 (02:51:34):
Oh yeah, that is it. That was in two thousand
and one.

Speaker 1 (02:51:38):
Yep, the day after No, no, no, that that video done.

Speaker 2 (02:51:43):
I know that. I know that's the video from the
day after that. That's us. Was that an NYPD Department
video though? Yes, yeah, so yeah, it wasn't released in
the journal. We were we were in New York City.
Oh no, no, wait a minute. This is this is
from the song.

Speaker 1 (02:52:01):
Yeah, this is this is the NYPD Heroes video. It
says from from well guess from the end of the
year from two thousand and one, because earlier in the video,
which shows the crime statistics for the year and so
on and so forth.

Speaker 3 (02:52:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:52:11):
That but that that that NYPD got back from p
BR because.

Speaker 1 (02:52:16):
P BR BR it was originally PVR.

Speaker 2 (02:52:18):
Yeah yeah, okay, so yeah, because that's the first time
I ever did an interview, all right, first time I
spoke on camera about it. Uh yeah, and and I
so so originally I wasn't supposed to be in that video.
And and uh but the producer for the video, okay,

(02:52:43):
he'd taken Esa and I out to dinner in Manhattan,
and uh and because we you know, we help with something.
My wife helped with some of it, okay, and uh,
he said, hey, look can I enter view? And I said,

(02:53:03):
he goes, it's for Ryan and and and PBR and uh,
and I said, I have to think about it. I
have to think about it. And and they got the approval.
Mark Nell got the approval, you know, to be done
at three. At truck three, h to the commissioner and
so I I said, I'd have to think about it.

(02:53:23):
And uh, but I said, you know, I'll come down
at truck three because I wanted to see Angela and
the girls, you know. Unfortunately got there just after they
because they were going to do a filming and they
didn't want an interruption to that. So at truck three,
and it was the first time the girls ever saw
the inside of Vin's locker and and I think first

(02:53:44):
time Angela held his helmet too. So it was pretty touching.
It was it was heart brenching, actually it was, but
it was just awesome that that they were, you know.
So so anyway, and Greg Dance and Vinny's brother was
there as well. So so I said, I, you know,
I wanted to come down and see Andrew, but we

(02:54:04):
had just missed him because angel had to get to work,
and the girls had one had school and that whatnot.
And so I was there and his name was Kelly,
I think, and he said, we're ready to go if
you want to you want to do this, and I said,
only if the other guys can be around, great flood,
because he was around nine to eleven. I asked for

(02:54:27):
the guys that were still working if they could be around,
and the other guys too, but most of the guys
that were around on nine to eleven, so that you know,
I want to get it right. And if for anything
I don't say that's right, just let me know or
give me a nod or tell me to you know,
cut it. You know, let's talk about that again. So
so anyway, it was the first time I was interviewed,

(02:54:50):
and they were supposed to hold that video. And then
right before went out to the general public. Ryan, Ryan,
who's become a great friend of mine, uh called me up,
called Teresa first, because you know, you got to go
through Teresa. Half the time, I don't even know where
my phone is. I leave it on a rock out

(02:55:11):
in the yard on the trail on the back, or
I'll be doing, you know something around the house. And
where's your phone. I don't know. You can try to
get a hold of you. Well then call it there
it is. Well anyway, uh they you know, Ryan said, listen, Teresa,
start up your computer. And then they called for me

(02:55:34):
and I saw it for the first time and I'm
along the way because I hope I did them justice.
Really do mental love?

Speaker 1 (02:55:46):
I think I think it did. Let you see what
you sent me, Eddie. Eddie lets in the chat as well.
He says, good man, Eddie, Eddie waite for you to
come on the show. I'm trying to get I'm trying
to get you on the show, Eddie. Let me see
what Eddie said to uh my email here so I
could display it here, and he says, it's another angle
at the screenshot he took. So this is this is
one of the screenshots and thanks for sharing.

Speaker 2 (02:56:07):
So that that right there, that picture right there was
taken by Bobby Steinman's brother from I understand from Nassau County,
and he did it very quickly and abruptly because he
was afraid his camera was gonna get taken away. And
I didn't see that picture to maybe oh, actually Bobby
Steman gave it to me at John Colgan's funeral a
year later.

Speaker 1 (02:56:27):
That's an interesting angle. He's right behind you, guys.

Speaker 2 (02:56:30):
I love that picture because it's like, you don't know
who it is first of all, and you see the
back NYPD right where you can see you can tell
us to NYPD guys, right, and you just see our
backs in the flag and you can see liberty won.

Speaker 1 (02:56:44):
There by the trade center.

Speaker 2 (02:56:48):
Yeah, yeah, and I really liked that picture. He did it,
and he didn't get his camera taken away.

Speaker 1 (02:56:54):
You know, at least, and I think he did certainly
do them justice. And and man, there are so many
stories in the time that even after all these years later,
still aren't known, or if there's somewhat known, they aren't
that well known until you really go into the nooks
and crannies of them. So I'm glad he went into
that and deciphered that because you know, it is a
part of history. It wasn't a moment in time, and

(02:57:15):
Steve has to have all that wherewithal in the middle
of the insanity is historic. And that's true because people
forget how much of the chaotic thing it was at
the time.

Speaker 2 (02:57:23):
I was just on the phone. Today's this afternoon on
a project that Jim Letner. He wrote the book My
U My Shield just just came out, just came out.
Jim was a lieutenant in Black Hawk Down. He was
the lieutenant on the ground that was his his guys, okay,

(02:57:44):
and so he eventually he wrote his own book and well, anyway,
awesome guy, and we talked about you know, books and
you know, no, of course black Oak Down. He was
that lieutenant, right, and he's mentioned in that book in

(02:58:05):
the movie. Everybody knows the movie, right, But he said,
you know, there were there were things that just didn't
fit right, and he wanted to be documented historically about
certain things, you know, about what was going on, not
just because of Black Oak Down, but what was going
on in the country at the time. I believe in
what was going on, and he later became privy to so, uh, anyway,

(02:58:26):
I'm hoping he sent me a sign copy. I want
to sign copy of your book to you.

Speaker 1 (02:58:30):
Will get that. I will send you one. Gladly you
say the word I'll take care that.

Speaker 2 (02:58:34):
No, thanks, thanks, so let me know. I'll send me
a check. All right.

Speaker 1 (02:58:39):
Listen for you, my friend. Listen, no money needed, no
money needs.

Speaker 2 (02:58:43):
That I could take you to lunch when I pick
it up, because now we're here in Connecticut right exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:58:47):
They're both in the same state. So that works for
me that you say the word and we'll get I
got lunch, then sounds good. Let me get you know
if you're night owt either way, I like to eat
for all I care, so that it should be. We'll
definitely have to arrange that suit. And I'm sticking back
when you mentioned Vinnie A and E. Doesn't I wish

(02:59:08):
A and he would post the documentary because they're the
ones that aired it, but the one that came out
on us, he would like nineteen ninety nine, two thousand,
Joe Garas in it. Quite a few guys are in it,
and they they went around a different trucks in the city,
which I like they started I made, I.

Speaker 2 (02:59:22):
Don't I made the grab on the guy in his underwear.

Speaker 1 (02:59:27):
That was because it was you and Vinnie in there right.

Speaker 2 (02:59:31):
At him, and I were on the way the counterweight,
and that Vinnie, Vinnie and Henry were on the ladder,
well in the ladder, I mean that walk away and
I remember McGowan and he was running around with McGowan host.

Speaker 1 (02:59:46):
For hostage yep, yep, Human Gowan was on that job.

Speaker 2 (02:59:50):
Yeah. Yeah, so so, uh we kind of got that
job done all with pretty quickly cooked out. We kind
of getting dragged out once H and T started helping
with the negotiations. And and uh so they we they said,
we're gonna he wants a phone to talk to his mother.
We got a phone from him, so they send up

(03:00:11):
a phone. It was a fireman's phone. Okay, and and
and uh I see Pete just just sa I know
that is that from Pizza Gretty.

Speaker 1 (03:00:21):
That's for Pizza Gretty.

Speaker 2 (03:00:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we we went down in the Stokes
Vinnie and I repelled down with would would Pete? Pete
was crazy enough to be what connected to the Stokes
basket to keep an eye on the patient, right right, Pete?
That's uh anyway? Oh so yeah so so uh yeah

(03:00:47):
you want me to I can't mention that this was
great great teamwork. Was great teamwork though, that.

Speaker 1 (03:00:52):
Was a great job because I just to go back
to that documentary's Pete says he was in good hands.
So for context for those of you that never used
to be on YouTube, they took it down sadly, but
I wish somebody would put it back up, but they
get called out. It's like the first job you see
in the episode where it's a guy I forget which bridge,
but he ends up kind of shutting down traffic on
the bridge and he's in his own he's only wearing

(03:01:14):
white underwear, he's wearing nothing else. He's barefoot everything, and
he's running back and forth like yesper quickly on the
on one of the trams with the bridges, and as
it turns out, he's on weed and coke at the
same time. Oh yeah, so he's he's on drugs and
you see Vinnie, I didn't realize it was you there
as well, and Pete Vinnie's waiting him out. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (03:01:34):
Yeah, so they so they sent up a phone. Yeah,
and we get it to him, right, I think, I
think I want to go see a guy to him
and uh so I was approached to make a gram,
thinking all right, if he goes to the phone, I'll
make my grab. Right. I had to jump from the
dumb waiter of that bridge, okay, on top of that
a few feet over to the catwalk, so you know,

(03:01:57):
but I you know, I was tied in. I had
good blade man, and I asked for I have I
asked for a good amount of blade and uh so, anyway,
that didn't work. So he's on the phone with his
mother in Puerto Rico. He gets it for a while
and he gets into an argument with his mother, and
then he and Peter tell you he hoisted the phone

(03:02:20):
out into the Harlem River. The river he went out
into the water, so we just watched the sail out anyway,
and he wanted a cigarette. Later on, of course, he
kind of stalled us for a while. He said, we
could have made a good grab the phone anyway, so
they didn't want us to make the grab because they

(03:02:40):
wanted to have that phone handy for you know, I
think I don't remember correctly, but it stalled. But well, anyway,
uh uh, he wanted a cigarette, so Vinnie kept getting
up out of the ladder well to get to him,
and but he'd get pissed and Vinny would go back
down a little bit. But make a little extra, make

(03:03:03):
a little less, make a little extra, make a little less.
And I I was just and so I think it
was war on, Garcia said. Serge Garcia said, you know,
Vinnie pushed him towards us because when he goes up
the ladder well. The guy comes back towards us, but
not too close, but you know, he comes towards us, right,
and and one knew I was ready to make make

(03:03:25):
my make my grab, so and he gave me the
not it was okay, you know, so so uh, and
Vinnie had come up, and but Vinnie was like kind
of like this far up I had a ladder well
and chest high a little little more than chest high,
not high enough to you know, to get up and

(03:03:45):
get moving. But well, anyway, so he was facing he
was facing me first, and then he turned to see
what Vinnie was doing. And that's what I knew. I went.
I jumped to the catwalk, ran down the catwalk, hoping
I had enough line on him to make it, you know,
to make it to the end where if if he
went off the end, you know, maybe still be able

(03:04:06):
to make a grab. But but he would have to
jump over vinniecause Vinie was still getting up out of
that ladder well. And there we are, we come all
from crashing down. Vinnie got on top of him, and
Henriette thank you, and uh yeah. Then then it was
the idea of now, how are we gonna get him
down right, and so we got a Stokes basket and
we got him all loaded up. And Pete will tell
you we got him all loaded up, and he goes,

(03:04:27):
just don't don't drop me and Vinnie. Vinnie gave him
hell for that, like, you know, what do you mean
on jobs you wanted to jump? So and uh yeah,
and Pete was lowered down, attached the Stokes basket, me
and Vinnie repelled now alongside. That was an awesome job.

Speaker 1 (03:04:44):
It was, it was, and it's it's archived in that
documentary to recite. Did get your abil Thank you very
much for sending That's what I was looking at just now.
But so it makes sense that because I think two
truck was or I thought all these years. Now you
just confirmed that tu truck was there because they panned
to John Delire at some point during that job just
looking up like today would be nice. You know, he's

(03:05:05):
got the funniest look on it. He's like, okay, you know,
but yeah, that's that's that's a great documentary. Like I said,
I really wish to an you have to check if
they have put it back up, because they did that.
Bill Curtis narrated it all those years ago, ninety nine
to two thousand round there. So that brings us to
the end segment, which is a rabid fire. We have
been talking for three hours, but it doesn't feel like it. Honestly,
it's flowing by no, I don't know. I mean, listen.

(03:05:29):
It depends on it depends on the guest. So and
I was happy, more than happy to have you tell
your stories. And you'll have to come back for a
part too, my friend, because we got some other stuff
we have to get to. But we'll go to the
rabid fire. And it's five hit and run questions from me,
five hit and run answers from me. If you don't
have an answer in the moment, you could say, past's fine.
First things first, I mean one of them you already answered.
I'm not going to ask your most uplifting call, because

(03:05:51):
helping the jumper and delivering the baby's pretty uplifting. So
we'll start with the first one, which is funniest call.

Speaker 2 (03:05:57):
Funniest call, Oh wow, Oh, it would be with Hot
Lunch with the with Ray Newman from a Street was
my partner.

Speaker 1 (03:06:08):
That was a gun cor So it was just what
was the story with hot Latch? That is one of
the things I was gonna ask you about.

Speaker 3 (03:06:14):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (03:06:15):
Ray was my partner for a while on the A
team and then at three truck and what a great guy,
awesome guy, you know. And uh, well, anyway, so we
get a uh we're riding around an r P up
in the four seven and and uh, you know, we're
helping out as a response vehicle up there to keep
an eye, you know, help you know, help around patrolling
the neighborhoods up there, would be ready for whenever they

(03:06:37):
need us right away. And uh so Race is a
car with a violation and says, I'm gonna pull him over.
And the car is moving pretty good. So so it
wasn't a great neighborhood at that at that time, and
and uh picked a good spot and apparently the car
got jammed up with another car in front of it.

(03:06:59):
So we Ray, Ray was going post the walls right
but to get the car, and and got up on
him and he had nowhere to go. So we pull
up and righty, we get out and and Ray goes
up to the driver's side and gets in the step
out of the car, and he was very fidgety, very fidgety.

(03:07:19):
So he said something about he had to get something
out of the trunk well to get his ideal license
or something like that, and uh so I think it
was more for a distraction of us. And I'm looking
at the buildings around, you know, keeping an eye up,
you know, everybody throw something down on us or whatever,
and trying to keep an eye on, right. But then

(03:07:40):
it happened real quick and Ray goes hot lunch. I said, no,
that's okay, I'm just kidding. But he had to cut
down into the trunk, you know, going for his gun
in the pocket, and he's on hot lunch. Hot lunch,
grab him and the three of us go tumbling to
the ground and rolled around for a bit trying to
keep him from getting his gun because he wanted it,
and and uh eventually we got him to not get

(03:08:03):
his gun and get him handcuffed him. That was it was.
We laughed about it so much about the hot lunch.
That's now I wanted soup with it. That's that's what
took me so long. I was going to order the soup.
You had to be there, yeah for me, you know.

Speaker 3 (03:08:24):
That.

Speaker 1 (03:08:25):
That's one of those, uh, that's one of those you
have to be there moments. But again, those codeses. That's
what makes and I understand why they use the coach.
Some of the codes are so absurd in a goofy
I say that loved me in a goofy way, and
it just adds to the story, if you will. So,
like I said, I won't ask you bostht uplifting call
because he answered that pretty well earlier. We'll skip to
ahead to the third question. Best advice either about life
or about the job that you've ever been given?

Speaker 2 (03:08:47):
Uh, you know, I think like I you know, I
stopped in from time to time at the trucks us
the guys, and and uh, just you know, best advice
for the new guys is like I said earlier, I think,
just you know, keep your eyes and ears open, you know,
at least for the first year, I understand what what's

(03:09:10):
ahead of you. You're in a great unit on a
great job, right and and uh a lot of responsibility
comes your way, especially when you have the situation cap on,
you know, And and uh you'll you'll learn a lot
that first year from those guys that are sharing around
the table are on a job just you know, Uh,

(03:09:31):
a lot of talent in the issue. And the more
you get seasoned in the issue, the more talent you have,
so if you're a new guy, you know obsorbed the
talent of the older guys.

Speaker 1 (03:09:41):
And and you know, with a lot of respect of
course good advice. You answered both the thirty and the
fifth question of rabbit fire there, so you got you
got two answers in one. They're well done, my friend,
and that I'll so the last one. I'll ask you then,
since he had covered the other one, the other two
pretty well, I should say, is favorite meal to eat
in the truck, either ordering out or somebody that's real.

Speaker 2 (03:10:00):
That's real tough because a lot of times we ate
off the dashboard, right you know that come to was
like that. But you know, but uh, I would say, uh,
you know, steaks from Roger Savage or dirt bolts and
chauffeurs when my truck three h third squad, when when

(03:10:21):
it was time to have dinner, they made a nice
meal and uh, you know, when you had time to
sit down and at least the steak could be quickly.
You know, if you if you came in late, it's
still had a steak available. You know, Roger and Dirk
were great chauffers and amazing guys.

Speaker 1 (03:10:38):
Too well done. This was quite the show, my friend.
Quite a way to come back from the summer hiatus.
So thank you very much. Before we say our goodbye
to the audience, to stick around, we'll talk off here.
Rich any shoutouts to anyone or anything that you would
like to give, Oh.

Speaker 2 (03:10:54):
God, a shout out. There's so many. There's just so
many great guys. You know. Wilson and Ramblers was his
company sergeant. Yeah, very very great friend, very great friend.
And uh, you know Tonio Taro, Richie Gunndacker and some
of the guys that are very you know, reached out this.

(03:11:16):
There is so many. But but I got to say,
you know, Steve Driscoll and you know those guys that
we lost that day and the guys that we've continued
to lose. You know, there's something that you know, I
know we mentioned some of them. But Ronnie Clover, you know,
Santo's just Ronnie wanted me because I was a cross player.
I was a goalie, so he said, we need a goalie,

(03:11:36):
we need a goal He ran it.

Speaker 1 (03:11:37):
I forgot. He ran to the cross team for the
ny P.

Speaker 2 (03:11:39):
Yeah, but I don't want to drive all off long
Island however, lived I lived upstate. But yeah, uh, you know,
it's just in Rodney Gillis. You know, we're great boys,
and just you know, Wally Weaver. You know, Jerome Tamengez.
There's a picture of jerme up at Camp Smith stand

(03:12:02):
next to the helicopter. He took a picture of all
of us as a group. And I believe I was
when I took that picture of him for his camera.
It was his camera, you know, and uh, he took
a picture of the whole group and he wasn't in it.
So so I mean, god, I'm gonna tell you. I mean,
just so you know, you know, and Steve Banano, Barry Delfano,

(03:12:26):
their losses, you know, And I gotta say, you know,
I you know, for a while, you know, a friend
of mine was a Vietnam veterans. Just don't don't say
you put your head in the sand, but I think
I did. When my old part of Charlie Wastle and
Pete Segretti was Charlie. You know, we worked in the
four four together. He was just an awesome guy. I
was by his bedside for most of the time he

(03:12:48):
was sick, and and and we had a pack and
he tried to hold me to that pack at the
very end, and I said to him, you know, he
was in bed shape, and uh, you know he kicked
three s out of the room and and and his
wife and said, we had a pack. We had a pack, brother,
we had a pack. And I said to him, I said, yeah,

(03:13:10):
we had a pack, which I thought I was going first.
You know, it hurt to watch him pass Steve, of
course Barry. And then when my wife lost their father
in the plane crash in twenty sixteen. He was killed
in the P fifty one with Jeff Pino, the Foreign Presidents.
Of course, they were killed together. And he was like

(03:13:31):
the dad I never had. You know, I lost my
dad when I was a kid. I had a stepfather.
But you know, but yeah, so you know, I for
a while, I kind of went went low like a submarine,
you know. And I guess for the twentieth anniversary, when
my wife and I dedicated our grotto here at our

(03:13:53):
property to nine to eleven, the twentieth anniversary, we invited
Wilson was up and guy, some truck trucks will come
up and and uh Tonio or Taro, you know, and uh,
you know Ray and you know Bobby Bobby Downs. You know,
we had a bunch of guys up here, and uh

(03:14:16):
it was Mayor Pete from New Milford's largest town in Connecticut,
and he said, you know, we have a nine live
memorial and you know, would you come speak? That was
the first time I spoke other than that PBR thing,
But you know, in public like that for in a
long time, I didn't. And I said to my wife
and she was surprised I was gonna speak. And I said,
you know, I guess it's twenty years later. And I

(03:14:37):
didn't think I'd make it this long. You know, I
go to Mounts and I and my other doctors, and
you know, I said, you know, I I I didn't
think I'd make it this far, you know, And and
the rest is gravy. Now it's gravy. So I've gotten
out there more. And uh we did a nice event
with Equos Effect. It's with horses up here in Sharon, Connecticut,

(03:14:59):
with the Guardian Revival. It's run by Navy Seal to
help guys, you know, men and women in law enforcement
and veterans you know, suffer from PTSD and you know
the elments. But you know, so we got we did
that on Saturday, and so I'm getting out more, you know,
especially for events like that. We've gotten involved with Heart

(03:15:19):
nine to eleven and the Smart program that's run by
Yale and Harvard and stress management and resiliency training. We've
got involved with that. So we're out there to try
to help as much as we can. You know, I
didn't walk away from the help of helping others, but
I just kind of just kind of pushed back on

(03:15:42):
a few things, you know, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (03:15:46):
Yeah, Listen, everybody processes grief differently, you know, no matter
what we've been through. I know when I it's much
different than some of the experiences that you've had. When
I lost my grandfather last year is one of the things,
you know, I just I gravitated towards people I've always
and taught. I'm like, listen, even though it's easier said
than done, when you're going through some deep stuff, you know,
if you if you, if you isolate yourself, it doesn't

(03:16:07):
make it any better. And I say that, thank you.
You know, he led a good life. He was eighty
six years old, wonderful man. But you know, that was
one of the things that helped me that and using
the same humor he did. But just being around people,
you know, lest some people can really for as much
as people some people may stink, there's a lot of
great people out there too that can really lift you up.
And I've seen that in my life. I know you've

(03:16:29):
seen that in yours. But Rich just was go ahead, no, I.

Speaker 2 (03:16:33):
Was just gonna say, you know, you know, I lost
my mom this year too.

Speaker 1 (03:16:37):
I'm sorry, brother, ye just a few months ago.

Speaker 2 (03:16:39):
And my dad, my stepdad, year and a half ago.
So the loss, you know, it just it posed you sometimes, right,
And so I'm so sorry to hear about your grandfather,
you know. And I remember hearing hearing about you losing
your grandfather.

Speaker 1 (03:16:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's been some time now.

Speaker 2 (03:16:57):
You know.

Speaker 1 (03:16:58):
I was blessed to have him for as long as
they did.

Speaker 2 (03:17:01):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (03:17:02):
And yeah, you know, he left by quite the legacy.
Hilarious guy, took nothing seriously, which is what part of
his charm, said the darkest things that you probably shouldn't say,
but that was also part of the time. But yeah,
just uh And Steph says, a great job, Rich, love you, sir,
and yes, you did do a great job. And like
I said, this was the perfect show to come back
from the sun. Yeah, thank you to everybody that tuned

(03:17:25):
in tonight. Like I said, thank you for having.

Speaker 2 (03:17:28):
Me all right. Well, I can't believe it. Three hours.

Speaker 1 (03:17:32):
Wow, that's all right, that's all right. Doesn't feel like
it's been that long. A show is flown right by.
I mean, I didn't notice the time until I looked over.
I'm like, oh wow, we've been talking for that long.
So this was great. Like I said, stick around, we'll
talk off here. I'm just gonna say goodbye to the
audience real quick. Want to thank you guys for tuning in.
Thank you to everybody who watched tonight. Eddie Lutz, I'm
waiting for you to come on the show, brother, same

(03:17:53):
thing to you, Piztez. Ready, I'm waiting for you guys.
Want to talk to you guys too. And for those
of you rather you be from FD or PD, I
know this is a tough time year for you all.
So just thinking about all you guys, and I'll be
keeping in my prayers for of course this Wednesday. And
thank you for all you did twenty three years ago,
and thank you for all you're continuing to do now.
Retired or active, and thank you to everybody else that

(03:18:13):
tuned in. Coming up next to the Mike the New
Aven podcast. He currently is the special Operation she for
the North Hudson, New Jersey Regional Fire Rescue. He himself
is awesome in the military for a while. I believe
he was awsome marine before he went into the fire service.
It's going to be Chief al Pratz that I'll be
volume four of the Best of the Bravest Nationwide edition
and next Monday. I've been trying to get this interview
for a while, so I finally did. She was and

(03:18:35):
she's still active in the space and investigative reporter for years.
If you watch pix you saw her all the time.
Finally I got Mary Murphy to come on the show.
So I'm really excited about that. That's next Monday, six pm.
And like we say, we got Best the Bravest nation
Wide Volume four this Friday, also at six pm. In
the meantime on behalf of retired NYPD Emergency Service Unit

(03:18:56):
Detective Rich Miller and producer Victor and also Teresa Miller,
who also was critical as I mentioned earlier, setting up
this interview. Mike Coloone will see you next time and
as the Emi like I said, anytime, baby, take care,
good night, say if word. We'll see you Friday.

Speaker 3 (03:19:38):
Mama told me.

Speaker 4 (03:19:42):
When I was shown, you sit beside me my only son,
just supposedly to what I'll say, did it do this?

Speaker 3 (03:20:04):
It a'll help some Sunday. We'll take your time. Don't

(03:20:31):
live too fast. Troubles will come, they will past.

Speaker 6 (03:20:42):
We'll find a warm.

Speaker 3 (03:20:46):
And you'll find love. Don't both get the sun. There
is something more uble and then seller got Booby something

(03:21:10):
you love a us stay by it be simmer Charny
want you or the sun. If you can't.

Speaker 4 (03:21:38):
Get your last.

Speaker 3 (03:21:43):
Rich Man's school, don't let you need it's in your soul.
You can lose if you try.

Speaker 4 (03:22:02):
That.

Speaker 3 (03:22:03):
I want for your massairs, please.

Speaker 6 (03:22:07):
Said Starr. Si Ok Sunday.

Speaker 4 (03:22:21):
You love.

Speaker 6 (03:22:26):
Lobe s.

Speaker 3 (03:22:34):
But bis all the sun maybe came.

Speaker 1 (03:22:40):
So just st.

Speaker 3 (03:23:35):
Why don't you worry? You find yourself, bollow your heart
and nothing is You can do this, Moby. If you try.

Speaker 4 (03:23:58):
Do that, I won't Ooh you my sons be SASTI.

Speaker 3 (03:24:06):
Then Simon can Booby son.

Speaker 6 (03:24:17):
You love not say rebb Persimmon? Can we want to
do this before the sun? Good became.

Speaker 3 (03:24:37):
Rather besm Persia by S.

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