Episode 347: Captain Joe Lisi

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're listening to the Mike to Do Even podcast hosted
by media personality and consultant Mike Glow. You know, the

(00:43):
life of a working actor is an interesting one. And
as I'll talk about what tonight's guests will introduce, momentarily,
you grow up and not everybody is a household name,
per se that everybody's a Brad Pitt or a Lindsay Lohan,
Angelina Jolis so on and so forth. But if you know
a working actor, and the beauty of a versatile working
actor that is that you see them in so many

(01:04):
different things across the years. They're never synonymous with one thing,
and you constantly find yourself saying, I know that guy
or I know that girl. That's really the case with
Todan's guess. He's been in Law and Daughter, he's been
in Third Watch. I've seen them in so many other
programs and I'm like, yeah, you know, And finally we
connected on social media not too long ago. There's been
a long time coming to get him on the show.
So I'll introduce him in a moment. And on that note,
we welcome you to episode three hundred and forty seven

(01:27):
Mike and You Haven Podcast to very much appreciate having
all of you tuning in via YouTube, LinkedIn and Facebook
of course if you have not checked out the previous episode.
That was definitely a lot of fun to do. Certainly
glad we did it. And that was with John Fleming.
John Fleming a former detective in the office of specially Narcotics.
A different show, but a nice showing that as I

(01:47):
mentioned the promo for it, we normally don't get a
glimpse at law enforcement agencies like that in the city,
so we may know they're around, but we may not
know their exact function. And John came out. They had
a really good show of explaining what that office does
and his twenty nine year career in that office. So
very good episode with him. I mentioned this on Facebook

(02:09):
and LinkedIn and Instagram as well. And we begin the
show tonight, unfortunately on a very somber note, and I
wanted to pay tribute to my friend who's been on
this show multiple times, was a great guest on the
show and a great friend off the air. That's Myles Son.
You may remember Miles met posts from our mutual friend
Lorenzo Toledo. He retired out of US Customs, came on

(02:30):
a couple of years ago to tell his story about
being in Border Patrol first, and US Customs came back
not too long ago with Alex Alonzo to talk about
a unique undercover narcotics operation they did called Operation Overlord
in the early nineties and Miles, you know, and I
felt this way about him at the time. I'm not
just saying this now because he's sadly gone. He lived
a million lives in one, which is what makes his

(02:52):
sudden death so tragic, in that Border Patrol US Customs
undercover not just here domestically on dangerous assignment and investigations,
but abroad as well. And tragically, Miles died suddenly, like
I said this past weekend, from medical complications. He was
sixty eight. And this was a man who was a
healthy sixty eight year old. He did everything right. This

(03:14):
was a guy who was healthier than some thirty and
forty year olds that you know in the gym every day,
worked out all the time. Ate Wright did everything right,
but experienced medical complications that got his life way way
too short. And as I mentioned it, you know, when
I paid tribute to him on social media, it was
noddor to know him. I was a not or to
hear his stories and not or to be his friend.

(03:35):
He was a good man, always good for a laugh,
always upbeat and positive in this we had literally talked
the day before. He was always sending me funny things
on social media that had me cracking up, and he
was just a good person. And there's people across past
with when you do something like journalism, that really make
me glad that you do it, and he was one
of them. So I'm very sad that he's gone. I

(03:58):
still can't believe it. It hasn't really sunk in that
he's not with us anymore, and that I'm not going
to get a text from him with something funny or
some great photo from the past cases that he worked.
But then I'm not going to get him sending some
funny to me on Instagram. It doesn't feel real. But
I want to send my deepest condolences on not just
my on my behalf, but also Producer Victor's behalf to
Miles's family. He was a great man, as I'm sure

(04:20):
many people have told you, a wonderful man, a wonderful spirit.
He had wonderful positivity and personality, and he will not
be forgotten. And I'm very glad that I got the
chance to know him, and I will miss him very
very much. We'll play a couple of sponsors and we'll
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the Newaben podcast. My next cast had two dual lives.

(06:07):
As I mentioned in the beginning, a police officer for
several years, retired at the rank of captain after twenty
four years, and then working actor during that time. So
for his time until he of course retired in nineteen
ninety two, he was juggling both and I always it's
funny because I always saw him in different law enforcement
procedural dramas, mainly Lawn to Order, where I thought to myself,
he plays a cop really well. Turns out the reason

(06:28):
why he plays a cop so well because he was one,
so he understands exactly how to play one. He lived
it for twenty four years, seventeenth Precinct commanding officer for
a time twelve years, and different narcotic union assignments, of
which you'll tell me about tonight, And of course has
appeared in many different programs including Third Watch and Law
and Order. As we mentioned, you may know him from
other programs as well, and that for this episode three

(06:49):
hundred and forty seven of the Mike Weaping Podcast, Retired
NYPB Captain Joe Lisi, Joe welcome, How are you?

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, very well, Mike, thank you so much for having
me on.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Thanks for being here. Before we get, of course, into
your career at the Law enforcem Decide and later on acting.
You're true New Yorker. Tell me about where you grew
up and what inspired you, if at all, early on
into a career in civil service.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Well, you know, I was born in Brooklyn, raised in
Queens and growing up you know, I love the television
show called Me in Toutomers and the Untouchable star Robert
Stack is elliot Ness, and you know, elliott Ness was
a guy who chased al Capone. Now in my neighborhood,
which was a lower middle class neighborhood, the kids on
the street, all of my friends always wanted to be

(07:33):
al Capone playing Gangsters. I wanted to be Elliot Mess.
So I think that had something to do with with
the reason why I became a top, and also the
exposure that I'd had as a young kid on the
street in the New York City Tops, it was it
was always very positive, even when they were taking out
of gloves and stickball bats because the people were complaining

(07:56):
of us playing stickball in the street. They would tell
us edis roma corner, and we'd go around the corner
at the top and would give us everything back. So
I had You've always had good experiences and I love
people are like the healthy, And that's what I did.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
And you came on in sixty eight, which is interesting
because that's kind of a cross roads for the city.
It was the end of innocence, if you will, for
the city. The city had gone through a really good
fifties and sixties, late sixties into the early seventies. That's
when the pendulum starts to swing the other way. Things
start to go bad, So cops are busy during this time.
You have a lot of assassinations going on because of
the weather underground, the fail and so it's not an

(08:32):
easy time. So coming on then in sixty eight, going
into the seventies, tell me about those early years and
where you first ended up out of the academy.

Speaker 3 (08:40):
Okay, Well, I graduated from high school in June of
nineteen sixty eight. I was seventeen years old and I
had taken the test to become a police training. So
I was hired by the police department in August of
nineteen sixty eight as a police training and I spent
three years as the training prior to getting my FEO
might have done and becoming the tops. So as a

(09:02):
police training you worked in administrative positions, either at a
police station or an officer at headquarters, so you had
all the exposure to the cops, but you didn't actually
go out and the forts the law. I even went
through the police academy as a trainee. You did all
the training exactly as the recruit officers with the excepted

(09:26):
the firearms.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
So we were twenty one.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
We released twenty first birthday to go back to the
academy for two weeks of firearms trainings, and then you
were out into a.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Preaching What's interesting is that it was kind of a
reverse with you. Usually some people have a military career
prior to law enforcement, prior to fire service, then they
go into the academy. You had some training, of course
as a police trainee as you just mentioned, and then
came to the Marine Corps year later at nineteen sixty nine.
So tell me about the decision to.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
Build a care Well, I had to get permiss from
the police commissioner to go on military leaves to join
the Marine Corps.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
And what I did was I listed in the Marine
Corps Reserve.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
And the reason why I did that was because when
I was a young police trainee, there was a guy
who came to work in our office. His name was
John Debayan. He was a civilian, a police administrative aid,
and a long story short, this young man was terrific.
He was a born leader, He never complained about anything.

(10:30):
He worked around the clock.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
He had one way. So what happened was.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
We would see him working around, and of course he was,
you know, he had a prestigious leg, and I knew
that he was a veteran, and then ultimately I found
out he was a marine. And what happened was he
went to Vietnam, and very early on in Vietnam he
lost his leg, and of course he then was medically discharged.
And he was such a believable young man, a born leader,

(11:06):
a team player, a goal oriented person. Didn't complain about,
you know, the fact that he was now really handicapped.
He just was somebody you would looked up to. And
even though I was only a teenager and he was
maybe a year over than me, I looked up to
him and I said, I want to be like that guy.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
I want to be a marine.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
And that's what I did.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Hair silent is no joke. It's the proving rounds. As
anybody that's ever heard about the cores or like the
haircase spin of the core of those they break you
down to build you up, is what I've heard. So
tell me about the mental toughness that you had to
build up undergoing such rigorous training.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Well trained back then, of course, was only eight weeks
long because we were in the middle of the Vietnam year, right,
so they had to condense what was normally twelve weeks
of training into eight weeks of training.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
So, as you say, it was very intensive.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
I remember when I first met my senior drill instructor,
he said to me, got into my face and he said,
you know, there's three things we don't like here New
Yorkers Ialian and Rea Jervis, And of course I was
all free, so he was to say I wanted to.

(12:23):
It was tough, and back then the drill instructors were
a lot more physical than the arts that ain't for
the recruit, so it was it was quite an age.
But once you earned the title marine, it's something you
never give up. You live it for the rest of
your life and looking back out of your glad that
you did it.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
We had Campbell June as well in radio school. Now
for those not familiar with that process, most people know
Campbell June, but the radio school, what exactly did that entail?

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Well, my MOS, which is Military Occupation and specialtyage was
twenty five thirty two, which is a radio relay operator. Now,
of course today is everything being wireless and all that,
the radio systems are much different but back then, a
field radio operator carried a very heavy pat with a

(13:15):
radio and a very long antenna, and his job was
to be next to the platoon leader. He was usually
a lieutenant. So in a combat situation, the first person
they look to shoot is the radio guy and the
guy next to him, who's obviously the lieutenant. So my
job as a radio relay operator was to set up

(13:38):
powers where we would send signals to those radios. And
you're not actually directly on the front line, but you're
pretty close. And the radio school was I think six
or eight weeks in the very famous part of campus
use which at one point was called Montfort Point, which

(13:59):
is where they trained the original African American Marines when
the Corps was still segregated.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Forty two, So it was it was very historic be
somebody that was living in those quarters where those original
Black Marias cads.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Again, it's intensive because in something like this you have
to be tactically sound, you have to be sharp, and
you have to be quick. But I feel like going
through that training that only prepared you well naturally for
that assignment of probably your police career too later on.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Oh without a doubt. Interestingly enough, because my time on
active duty was very short because the reservist obligation is
you do your boot camp and do your military school,
and then by when six months are over, you lead
back your duty and you go your reserve years. So
when I went back to my reserve unit, I went

(14:52):
back and went back on active duty in the police department.
I was sent to the same police duty and I
worked for the same police supervising And I'll never forget
that the solegeant that I worked for told me when
I had gone away. Before I went away, it was
kind of like a wive there not not not too
very disciplined, and he didn't really have a lot of

(15:15):
hope or faith in me. And he said that when
I came back, I was like a different person and
I became more like John the Vine, who I wanted
to emulate, team player, hopefully a leader and things like that.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
So he changedes. It's drastic, it's fast, and it's permanent.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Absolutely. Talking with Joe Lisa here in the Mike and
Maven podcast, retired in my PB cap again, as you
guys know, in the chat, you have a question, submit
it and I'll highlight it at the appropriate time. With
that in mind patrol, how long were you on it?
And once you went through the firearms training, where were
you first started? They did they have NSU in the seventies.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Back then, Okay now they didn't have it. So when
after I did my two weeks at the police gaded
me and I got my qualification to Garry Pyrof, I
was sent to the eighty eighth Precinct, which is in
Fort Greene and the edge of Bedstye. And of course
that was in nineteen seventy one, so those were tough

(16:15):
times back then. And what I remember most about that,
you know, I grew up in a lower middle class
neighborhood and when I was assigned to the precinct, as
a kid who grew up in Queens, the thing that
I noticed the most about that neighborhood was how many

(16:37):
working age adult men were in the street during the
day Because where I grew up, there were very few men.
We didn't see men during the daytime at all because
they were working. The people that I weren't, at least
in Brooklyn back then, a lot of them were not

(16:57):
working for a lot of different reasons, employments, drugs, alcohol,
you know, discrimination on some level. So it was a
different world, so it was it was really kind of
like a culture shock for me, and that was one
of the things I took away from that early on.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
You know, Betstye has a nickname do or Die bets Die,
and that's a very good reason. It's a tough place
to work. A lot of good people working there, with
a lot of tough characters too, and you got to
prove yourself early on because unfortunately, what are these tough
guys looking to do. Oh, they look at a test
early on, and that's where the discipline comes in. Of course,
you had your prior training data to know your background.
But you know your background, but there's that delicate balancing

(17:38):
act that a police officer has to walk between compassion
with the community and knowing when to be firm and
standard ground. So tell me about instances early on where
there were some tough callers and if there were, you know,
any tough confrontations you might have had earlier.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
Now, well, I will tell you this, and I'm glad
you mentioned that what people forget very often is in
those cool, underprivileged neighborhood are so many good, hard working
people that just want to raise a family, protect their children,
provide for them and live a life free of you know, crime.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
They want to live a safe life like everybody.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Else wants to do. So that's of being able to
do that or provide some degree of that in a
neighborhood like where I worked back then, and that was
very satisfying for the top. But the very first assignment
I ever went on, which was the first weekend, they
put you in the car and you're the third man

(18:37):
in a radio car. This is that they didn't have energy,
so they would put you in a car with two
season Tops and it was an eighth or four tour
and we turned out after the roll cold with the
sergeant in me all these finings. We turned out and
we drove to a deli and we got three containers
of coffee and we were part of the priests, had

(18:59):
a some factories. We went by a factory and then
you know, I'm a rookie. Cup. You just sit in
the back and you do what the old Sue Tops
tell you to do. So we're starting to sip the
coffee and over the radio. The first radio assignment I
ever went to, shots fired in the eight in present,
Who's responding? So the two cars the two cops automatically

(19:23):
throw their car, their cups out of the windows of
the car, and the car take saw. Now, I'm a cop,
I got a gun, I got a heel, and I'm
I'm going to a shoot to a gun.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Battle right now.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
But I feel like I'm still a civilian because I
had never done this before.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
And these two guys, they were taking it in stride.

Speaker 3 (19:43):
Anyway, we got there, everything was over, but they had
been a shooting involved. And and you know, that was
the very first radio assignment I ever went on, and
it went downhill from there. I You know, there are
times when you would, if you work in a four
to twelve shift, you would get into your car and

(20:04):
at the beginning of your tour, the radio dispanisher would
tell you that they're holding twenty four jobs just in
your sector.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
That's how busy it was back there that you said to.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
You, you know, you learn to really roll with the punches.
Get a command like that, because at the end of
the day, you're needed. Not only do your fellow officers
need you, but obviously the community as well. When it
comes to comfort level in the neighborhood, it's a culture
shock for a lot of guys, because I mean Tenancis
is not so much because they grew up in around
neighborhoods like that, if not in that same neighborhood, so

(20:35):
they know it well. Other guys are coming in from
different parts of the city, maybe even Long Island or Westchester,
never really been in environments like that before, so it's
tough to assimilate for you, even as a city kid.
Tell me about navigating that and when you first felt
comfortable on the beat and felt that you really had
a stake in the community.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Well, you know, it takes a while to build up
that confidence and to feel like you have a statement
because from.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
The beginning you feel like an outsider and you don't
necessarily belong.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
And then what you also have.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
To do is you have to earn your way into
the brother or brother and sisterhood of the Fraternity of
the Principle. And as a new guy, you are a
new officer today it's a man, a man or woman.
You very often get the unpleasant the science. Okay, So
also in that very first game, I'll give you in

(21:26):
an example, I get called into the police station and
they tell me I have to go to Cumberland Hospital
to take care of a psycho. To watch a psycho. Today,
they call them emotionally disturbed people. In my day they
call them psychos because you know what, that's what they want.
So we go in there, and you know, the cops

(21:48):
once again, it's like the cops that threw the coffee
out of a cup. They're experienced guys. They take everything
and strive. They don't know. I don't know what I'm doing.
So they take me down to Cumberland hospit them and
the two cops are gonna let me go into the
room to see the person that I'm gonna be escorting
from Cumberland Hospital to Brooklyn.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Hospital where they had a bigger cycle.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
So they kind of let me go in the room
by myself, and I could see that they were you know,
I knew they weren't afraid, but I think they were
giving me a little rare So I go in the
room and there's this woman who looked like my grandmother.
He was about I don't know, maybe five feet tall,
and he was in like a hospital down and she

(22:35):
was squatting down and she was urinating and defecating on
the floor of the room. Okay, so she sees me
and now she attacks me. So now I'm hustling with
this four foot nine or five foot young woman in

(22:57):
a hospital down and I'm rolling and in my uniform
and the urine and the feces with her. We're rolling
around and the tops are laughing because you know, they're
not gonna let me get hurt, but they're gonna let
me get it baptis them a fire from So then
I had to take around and old nurse help me.
They helped clean me up, but I still have to

(23:17):
take them with my soiled uniform in King's County Hospital
where the the person's got the help that she needs.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
But that's the kind of stuff the Yeah, and I
tell you they don't pay cops enough to deal with that.
You know, no they don't. It's and that's the thing
I mean oftentimes, and it's a much more complicated discussion
that is for a different day, but oftentimes, for a
variety of reasons, the first point of contact with an
EDP is both police and e M S. I know

(23:48):
a lot of people wonder, well, why are cops handling
and mostly disturb people runs Because oftentimes they're the only
ones available to respond to them. That's right, and it's
not easy. You want the person to get the help
they need, but there's a lot of that has to
go with that process and sometimes it's rolled around stuff
like that.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Then to listen to put this all the perspective do
Back then, when I became a police training, my salary
was four thousand dollars a year, and then I graduated.
When you become a rookie top I believed we were
making maybe eighteen thousand dollars years.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
So it wasn't a lot of money for.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Doing a lot of work, a good job, right, And
that's the thing, And that's not to say it doesn't
exist today. It certainly still does. But guys of your
era back then, they were really doing it for love
at the job. Because if you want to get into
a professional for money, that was not the professional to
get into. You really have to want to do it,
you really want to help people.

Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah, we used to say it was really like a vocation,
you know, because you can't do it for the money.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
It's not worth it. No matter how much they get it,
it's not worth it.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
You really have to do it because you want to
either help people or there's something about you where you
want to be looked.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Up to, I guess or whatever, because you have to.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
Want in your makeup you're the white Knight that is
supposed to be there to help people. And that's the
best part of being a top because you need all
different kinds of people in all different kinds of situations,
and you get to help an awful lot of good
people and then you get to arrest some bad people.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
So it's it's and it's always.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
About, you know, dunting on going to the job with
the sirens and the and the camaraderie and the operational
execution of it. It's just it's a great job. I
hope it's still as you know, they say it's not
as great as it was. The tops that I worked
with were all really wonderful people. Many of them were

(25:45):
military veterans themselves. I mean when I was a rookie,
some of the old guys I've been in World War
Two and they were still on the job. So you know,
these guys that caught on Eojima then are walking a
beat and fed start, you know, So it's it was great.

(26:06):
It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Absolutely. Joe Maliga with the question that chat on that beat,
you ever deliver a baby.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
It did as a matter of fact, right, And as
they told us in the police academy, you had to
be like a just like a center and allow the
baby to come out. And you know, that's all we
could do. And this was in a tenement apartment. It
was a young girl and I guess I don't even

(26:35):
know if she knew she was pregnant. You know, you
hear these stories where they don't know until the time
they're about to get first, and it was just me
and my partner the baby.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Kane put it on the.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Mother's belly with them with a towel, don't touch the
umbilical cord, call for the bus, off to the hot.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
There you go, simple to the point, it's concise, step
by step and all of.

Speaker 3 (26:57):
Us well, yeah, and then go get lunch.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, you know, you get home and your wife ask
you how it has worked. Well, you know, let's go home.
Day at the office. You know, a couple of calls
here and there, delivered a baby. Otherwise nothing stuff.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Well, you know, very often and when tops can't tell
their family really about a lot of what they experienced
because you know, to us, you know, we do it
and we can commiserate with our fellow officers. But you
don't want to bring a lot of the bad stuff
home because you And that's another thing Tops I saw
in the opening credits, you had Jack Cambria on.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
That's one of the things.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
You know. The tops carry a lot of burdens mentally upstairs,
and they need to be very grounded human beings to
be able to handle such a difficult job, because that's
that's part of the job that is very, very taxing.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
And if you can't handle.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
It the way I used to say, it was important
to kind of divorce yourself emotionally from the job. You
can't take things personally when people you know would say
things to you.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
But of course it was different things.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
You could curse me out, you could call me an ms,
you could say whatever you wanted to do. That was fine.
But the minute you touched me, and that when I
say me, I'm talking about any other cop that worked
at the time that I was. You touched me, you
went down. That's it booth no questions that that's the

(28:26):
way it works today, not like that. You saw that
disgrace when they took those two offices and threw the
water over them. Yeah, if I had been to duty
captain that day. I want to suspend it both those times.
I want to.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Suspended both of them for not taking any action.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
And the reason why I want to suspended them was
they made the job of policing more difficult for every
other cop that's still in the city because you can't
allow people to do that for you and not do
anything about it, because that just for ments. Then they
start doing more and more, and eventually they take out

(29:03):
guns when they shoot a car. Get what people get.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Away with him and I'll do you one better, you know,
and he's been on the show. He's a friend as well.
They better be thankful they didn't do that when Louis
animal was still around, because if louisanim Moan was a
duty captain, everybody at that block would have gotten round
it up that day. The whole block would have gotten
shut shut down.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Well, listen, the last one of my last assignments before
I retired was the riots in Crown Heights and Louis
Animo was the was the chief of department back then.
I know him well because I know him from when
he was a lieutenant. He's also in your opening credits.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
I noticed and.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Ray Kelly was the commissioner, and he hand picked a
bunch of captains to go to Crown Heights to augmenting
the police. And in the seventy first preaching we had
a bunch of tough kids, and for whatever reason, they
picked me. I was the one of the captains that
were sent there. And I can remember out in the
street with Louis Animal and Chief Animal, and of course

(30:03):
we were moving people around. And you're right what you said.
We didn't take guff from anybody. We were always respectful,
but we were in charge and we had cleaned the street.
We cleaned the streets, clean it though. Louis was a good.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Breeding, absolutely, and he's still going strong. He's definitely still
going strong. As far as the rank ascension is concerned,
considering where you finished up rank wise, tell me about
the studying aspect. Did you know early on, because some
guys they know early on. Yeah, I'd eventually like to
be a Boston job one day. Other guys, as time progresses,
they're like, you know what, I'll give it a shot.
What was your mentality towards that? When did you start

(30:41):
thinking about We'll start with sergeant.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Well, first of all, I only wanted to be a
good things. It's all I wanted to be was a
defensive and believe it or not, even though I had
eight years in an investigative assignment, I never became a
defensive because back then, with the fiscal crisis and everything,
I went into narcotics. For example, there were seventy five

(31:04):
tops in Manhattan South narcotics and maybe three protectives. The
rest of them were all white shield guys in women.
So I started to study because I wanted to make
more money. And back then, a sergeant, I believe the
detective made fifteen percent more than a cop, a sergeant

(31:24):
made thirty percent more than a cop, a lieutenant made
fifty percent more than a cop, and a captain made
one hundred percent more than the time. So I studied,
and I studied a lot. The first I failed. The
first sergeant says that I took. And when I came
to studying for the second time around, I went to
three promotional schools. I did private duty because I had

(31:46):
a thick head. They got to bang it into me,
you know, And then I was able to get through
and I got promoted. But being a sergeant, I'm going
off on a tangent. But being a sergeant. He's the
most important rank in the police department. And it's because
you are the first line supervisor. And when people ask

(32:07):
me what's it like to be a sergeant, I say, listen,
I can tell you the difference between being a cop
and a sergeant and a couple of sentences, and this
is it. What is funny to the cops, it's not
funny to the sarget when you pull up on it.
I don't know if you get that. But when you
pull up on an incident, whatever's going on very off.

(32:30):
The cops see the humor, but as the sergeant, you
can't see the your money because got to admit sure,
the things takes time. So the cops understand when I
say that, they know exactly what I mean. But the
sergeant sets the tone. He sets the tone for the flatunity.
He's to patrol supervisor or she, and it's such an

(32:50):
important rank. The sergeant has more of an impact on
the cop than the captain, certainly than the chiefs and
the borough commands. And that's why it's so very important
to have good first line supergart But but where a
lot of them go wrong. They want to be the
cops friend and a boss at the same time that

(33:12):
you can't really do. I'm not saying you have to
alienate yourself from the troops, but you have to set
a little bit of a zone, a little bit of
a separation between you and the cops that you work with,
because there's gonna come a time when you're gonna have
to disappoint them or tell them that they can't do something,
and you have to have that separation so that you

(33:36):
can do with a clear conscience and a firm hand labor.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Basement, right, And oftentimes you know the sergeant much like
a lieutenant in a fire department, and the sergeant of
police department is your first point of contact as an
authority figure. Now are there people above him or her, Yes,
as you just mentioned, But like you said, they set
the tone and the sergeant and this is no now
contact bluten it's rather attaptain's both ranks which she held,

(34:02):
and we'll talk about those sbgo because I'm you're still
getting dirty, so to speak, because they're out there on
the streets with the men and women, more so to
the degree than a lieutenant or a captain is. So
therefore there's a better understanding of what they're going through.
But with that better understanding, all the more need, as
you said, to set that tone.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Well, you're absolutely right about that.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
And you also drew a comparison between a police sergeant
and a fire lieutenant. Now, a fire lieutenant is, of
course the first supervisory rank in the fire department. And
while I have tremendous respect for a firefighter, there's a
big difference between tops on patrol and firefighters. And here's
the difference. Tops on patrol operate and make decisions and

(34:45):
have to exercise judgment on their own and then after
they make a decision, and after they exercise judgment, then
they very often have to call the sergeant to the
scene and discuss what happened and what's going on after that.
In the fire departments, the way firefighting is it's a
team thing. But the fire team goes in with the

(35:06):
lieutenant and they don't do anything that the lieutenant doesn't
tell them to do. So the fire department exercise the
fire operations. The fire supervisor says, let's get the hold,
you go this way, do that way. You're told what
to do every step of the way. The big difference
between a cop and a firefighter is a cop has
to exercise their own judgment and they have to make

(35:29):
the decisions without having the supervisor present, and then they
have to stand by those decisions because if they make
the wrong decision, of course, especially in an environment like today,
it could be very costat right.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
I think that's fair. I think it's a good cop
And that's that's why the role of the troll ups
are so tough. It's always been tough, and it's especially
tough these days for those reasons that you mentioned, because
you can't take those decisions back, you know, and the
sergeant can help, and your partner can help, but oftentimes,
even if it's a good decision, it's one that gets
dissected and analyzed over and over and over, especially now

(36:04):
with body can being able to review it. There's a
lot of Monday morning quarterbacking that goes on after the fact.
So that's a that's a pretty fair comparison there, And
I'll ask you in line with that, was there an incident?
I'm sure there was, But was there an incident I'll
ask you anyway early on as a sergeant where you
finally felt Okay, I feel like I'm a boss now.
I think I handled that really.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Well, that's that's just that's a tough question. When I'm
when I made sergeant, I was a I was in
the Narcotics division, and because I was in a h
a very specialized unit, they decided it was better for
the police department to keep me in that unit as

(36:47):
opposed to sending me back to patrol as a first
line supervisor on patrol. So when I made sergeant, I
stayed in a narcotic SED. So the challenge for me
was not only did I stay in the narcotic savision,
I stayed in the same unit that I was had
been assigned to.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Which was called the Special Project Union. We did all
the audio and video surveillance for all the drug operations
and for the FEDS and all that.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
But here's the thing. I went from being the junior
man and the youngest person in the unit to becoming
one of the bosses. So the guys that needs to
be telling me what to do, now I'm not telling
them what to do, but I got to get them
to do what needs to be done. So that was

(37:37):
a bit a bit of a challenge, but I think
I think I was able to handle okay, because what
you learn in the marine corps is it's all about
your marine, so it then becomes all about your cops.
Your job is to take care of your cops, assist
them in any way that you can, to have them
get the job done, and then to be there for

(37:59):
them when they need resources or anything else. You don't
do the job, they do it. You're there to support them.
So whatever the marines need, that's what the marine officers
are there for. Whatever the cops need, that's what the
supervised you do.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Once again, well said, we're talking without Joelsa, retiring my
PD captain of course, a long time actor. Here in
the my Kenwaven podcast, I'll touch on narcotics in the
moment because said it was the bulk of your career
twelve years as a matter of fact. But around this time,
I believe, is when you start to dabble, if you will,
in the acting realm. Tell me about deciding to do that.
I mean, you have a stable career, it's advancing well,

(38:37):
it's going well, and oftentimes in any profession, people aren't
comfortable stepping outside what they know and stepping outside of
their comforting. So you did did you have a prior
background in acting?

Speaker 3 (38:48):
I did not. I did not. There was something though,
that I always wanted to do. The people asked me,
what did you want to do. I said, there's two
things in my life I wanted to do. I wanted
to be a New York City cop and I wanted
to be an actress. Then I tell them, once I
became a marine, and I knew I could do anything.
So I actually took my first acting lesson when I

(39:09):
was twenty nine years old. But at that time I
had already been off patrol and in the narcotics tradition.
So but before I took my acting lesson, when I
was still in the precinct, I was in the anti
crime unit in the eight eighth in Brooklyn. I lived
in Queen's at the time, and I saw in the

(39:30):
local newspaper they were having a community theater group was
having auditions for the play Arsenic and Old Lakes. I
don't know if you know the play at all, but
I decided I wanted to go.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
I didn't even know how to audition, but I wanted to.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
Go, and I went down there and I tried out
to get into its play. Now, the play is it's
an old comedy. But there were two police roles in
the play. Now, I didn't tell the people that I
was auditioning for. I was a top. I just with
somebody from the community that wanted to try out to
be in the place and believe it or not, Lo
and behold, they cast me into play as Officer Broki,

(40:10):
one of the cops Reta. Well. I didn't know how
to work. I didn't know how to I didn't know
anything about action, but I knew I wanted to do
it and I had so much fun that my wife
at the time told me, if you want to be
an actor, go and learn how to be an actor.
But based on that when that's when I began to

(40:30):
study in the first place I studied at was in
Greenwich Village, a place called Eighth Pie Studio, which was
a good place to pick up. Like I guess, it
was called Basic Training and I studied there for three
years before I even tried to get a job. But
then after that I went on and I studied with
Stella Adler, who's a very famous action teacher. And then

(40:50):
I took a two year master's program at the bill
Esper who came from the Neighborhood Playhouse. So and that's
where I met Bruce Alvan who thought about him off
camera about us. But you're a new Hayy guy, and
that's where I met Bruce. So that's how that all
evolved for you.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Anthony Lacy a former sergeant in the NYP of the
Emergency Service Unit Census Regards. He's watched the nice say
shares the same last name as you guys.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Related what do you think of course where we're leaving.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
You know, it's funny. He's technically my cousin's son, but
in the police department he was always my nephew because
it's too you know Italians are. It's still crazy trying
to explain anything. So and I'm so proud of him.
He was such a terrific top and uh, I watched

(41:39):
his career bloom. He's a better cop than me and
his father will ever have been. He was.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
He was the real deal.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
And so happy that that he's that he's even watching
the program. But I have a lot of respect in
his great, terrific top.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Absolutely, he was on the show a number of years
ago from my ESU mini series. Is one of the
first guests I had to that any series some time ago. Man, Yeah,
five truck in emergency. Six truck as well had the
distinction of being a cop and eight boss in emergency service.
So glad to see you, Tony Hope balls well on
your neck to the works these days.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
Of course, I was gonna say I have an affinity
to Truck one because I was involved in the television
show which was called True Blue, which was about Truck one.
And you know, the one thing I would give Anthwery
a hard time about is because you know, you're not
a cop unless you're a top of Manhattan. And I
know that because I worked the first about eight years

(42:32):
in Brooklyn. But then when I was lucky enough to
get from Manhattan, I said.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
I'm never going back to any place for a man.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
And the truck one was it for me when it
And you know, emergency men are unbelievable. They're a breed
of their own anyway, the best of the best. And
but the truck want I have a little affunity.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah, that's that's part of the reason why. There's other
reasons too, but that's part of the reason why truck
wins the Hollywood Truck.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
That's right, you know what happened. But listen, people will
admit this to you nobody in police heats course will
tell you this, but you know, for me, the statue
of limitations is over. Nobody cares really about anything unless
it happens south of fifteen Ice Street in Manhattan. That's
what's important in New York too. Everything else, not that

(43:21):
it's unimportant, but it's just second though. What happens south
of fifty nine Street is what the world is really
all about.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, I mean that's and again, look at the press attention.
If somebody stubs their toe in Central Park, it's all
over the news. You know, that's just the way it is.
And that's what makes that job so unique, especially if
you're working in a place like Truck One, if you're
working even though it's the citywide unit, let's say a
unit like the Bomb Squad, which is based in Manhappy, Definitely,
it's definitely a world in and of itself. I'll continue

(43:51):
talking about your acting career in a moment, but I
did want to touch on narcotics, as I mentioned, and
that is not an easy world to work in because
it feels like it never stops. When you take down
one guy, the next guy sprouts up, and you're trying
to keep track with these operations, both from a procedural
standpoint in students like SNeW building cases. Of course, as
you were doing undercover operations on top of that, and

(44:13):
on top of this in the eighties there was of
course to crack era, which really affected Los Angeles, really
affected New York City. So in regards to that, I
don't know if you were you undercovering some of these
operations or were you directing cops who were going undercover.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Well, I ran the undercover program. I was never technically
an undercovered.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
The only undercovered thing I ever did in Manhattan South
we used to buy Boose joints down on Wall Street.
But you know, anybody could do that, So I was
never an undercover. But I did run the undercover program
for the narcotics divisions when I was part of a
special project Game.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
But even they changed the focus.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Before Snow and Snack and only these other programs when
I went into Nacotist. I think I mentioned earlier there
were seventy five cops in Manhattan South narcotics, but we
didn't do a lot of buying bus. There was one
team in the whole office that did what was called
buying bus. Whether the rest of the team did actual

(45:13):
narcotics investigation. Now, the first buy that I ever covered
a science in Manhattan South narcology took place in Connecticut.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
That's the way it was. We would go wherever it was.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
And when I tell cops, you know, if I ink
to a cop in narcotics today, and I tell them
I was a cop in accartos for two years in
Manhattan South before I became a sergeant, And I would say,
how many arresting you think I made And they'd say, oh,
I don't know, two hundred and three hundred and four hundred.
I said two, because back then we were doing investigation,

(45:49):
and investigations took time, and of course the end of
the investigation would be hopefully a big discot and you know,
a good collar. But when they got into the number's business,
I don't know if it helped. It certainly was better
publicity wise, and maybe the city or the people in

(46:10):
the city thought that it was more effective than actually
going after the people that were moving the drugs and
distributing the drugs. But I didn't do too much of
that long term case.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Poking is important though, because you really and it's tough
when you see these people dealing the poison, sometimes committing
murder in certain instances to further their business. But it's
all going not that those crimes don't matter, They certainly do.
Not that you guys don't care, You certainly do. But
you have to have that patience to build that case
that way. Once you nail them, you know, there's no

(46:43):
getting out of that. They go down if they want
to flip to get a more convenient deal from the government.
Other people go down with them. So there's a good
endgame to it. But it's an exercise and patient which
I'm sure at least early on had to be tough.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Yeah, and you know you mentioned about the crack for them.
I was right in the middle of all of that,
part of the Special Projects Union. We were involved in
the development and training for CRACK and all of that.
The Police Department sent me to Australia. I talked about
cracks that the police down there, and one of the
things when they were writing the law and this is

(47:18):
how things perspective changes. When they were wrote to crack laws,
they made the penalties more severe, especially like in the
area of school and that has done an one hundred
and eighty degree turn where they turn and turned it
to be that they were picking on people rather than
focusing on the people that were selling near the school.

(47:40):
So they wound up having a lot of those cases
turned around or or tossed out or commuted sentences and
things like that. But the intent of that, there was
no racism involved. The intent of that was purely to
get the bad person that was selling the drug, the
man's woman wife. Well, he did not get them more.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Up the street for a long period.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Of time, right, I mean evil, No, there's no color.
You're evil. You're evil. You're doing bad things. You're doing
bad things like you know. That's what ultimately would have
went was down to, you know. And we'll continue with
that discussion in a moment. I'll get, of course, further
into your career, especially as you sent it to the
ten ultimately to captain. But in addition to of course
starring in True Blue as the eighth Priests captain for

(48:24):
a period of time, one of the other roles that
I think was notable for you before Third Watch, which
I'll get to, is New York Undercover. New York Undercover
is a very underrated cop show, and that it wasn't
around too long. It was different. The leads were Michael
de Lorenzo and Malikiova, so it broke them all of
the time because nobody had seen anything like that. Now,
the last season was different. Unfortunately the leak was still there,

(48:47):
but Michael de Lorenzo had a contract dispute with Dick Wolfson.
He had left. But you were there as a chief
of detectives. So playing a role on a show like
that that still so many people that watch the show
in real time still loved this day. What was it
like be on the set with the League and some
of the characters on that program.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
They were great. And the woman who played the lieutenant,
and that was Lauren Veless, she was also terrific. They
were terristic to work with and for me to come
in and you know, because when in the part that
I play, like if I'm the key for the boss
or whatever, it takes eight days to shoot an hour
episode of tell me eight shooting day. Okay, But a

(49:23):
person like me who has a role, even though it's
a recurring role or a regular role where you're in
after every episode because you're not carrying the show, and
because you're not in, you're not working every day. So
I would committed to one or two days to film
the scenes that I was in as the boss, and
it was so great because they made you feel so welcome,

(49:45):
And then of course a lot of them ultimately knew
that I was still a cop, you know, and that
made it even more fun for them than me as well.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, Patty Darbinville, I think get left by that point
as well, that she was previously a nothern lieutenant. But yeah,
Belessen and that It's one of those shows that I
could because I've watched the reruns over the years. I
could see Malik and anything, i could see Lauren Vilessen anything,
but I'm always gonna know Lauren as Detective Nenia Moreno.
The same thing with the Lake. I'm always gonna know
him as the detective of J. C. Williams. So that

(50:15):
was a really really good show for the time that
it existed, and it kind of encapsulated nineties culture perfectly.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
And as you mentioned, Ida need to cut you off
my my foot, that was a dick Wolf show. So
that was before Lauren and all that.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
That was the dig Wild show.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah, that was a Dick Wolf show on Fox Thursday nights.
They were there in nineteen ninety four to nineteen ninety eight.
Now I will ask you in line with that. A
year later comes Third Watch, and that's another show. I
wish that show was still around because it was so good.
What I loved about is it got both. It got
the police side, it got the fireside too, And you
had some guys on that show as side actors, including well,

(50:51):
you had a main role, but there were side actors
on that show that in real life were cops and firement.
Rod Gillis was an e SU sergeant for had a
couple of small parts in that show, and he gave
his life heroically on nine to eleven. So I'll ask you,
playing Lieutenant Swirsky before we even get to his character,
tell me about just auditioning for that role and getting
that role, because even though you had an advantage with
your background, it's still not a given you're gonna get it.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Well, that's that's quite a story because, believe it or not,
I went in to audition seven times. The third one,
I went in and I auditioned for seven roles, including
Lieutenant Johnson, who was the fire lutenant, played wonderfully by
an actual named John Michael Bolgess. So I went in

(51:36):
seven times. So finally the last time I go in,
it's John Wells and and I forgot. I'm getting old,
I'm forgetting the other guy. So I go in and
I auditions right, and I read this thing, and I
think I did agree with God. You know when they
say great, Joe great, they always say christ great, thanky, okay,
thank you. And I get up and I walked and

(52:00):
I get halfway out of the room and I turn
around and I walk back and I sit down and said, well,
I want to tell you guys souch. And I had
a bag with me and I took the bag out
and it had my shield, my real shield, and my decorations.
And I said, you see these I heard VS? Is
it not DS? Okay? So I just that's all I

(52:22):
wanted you guys to know. And I put them back
and I left when they cast me.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
With community, well, let's go oh sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
No, I was gonna say, go figure it seven times.
I went in seven times. But you know, my agent
always we always talked about it. My agent never told
anybody that I was a cop, because it could work
for you or it could work against me, depending on
whoever you were auditioning for so we always thought it
was better never to say anything, but ultimullly, in that case,

(52:53):
I just had it, you know, And they were so
good to me. On Third Watch, they changed the shooting
schedule when I was doing a play in London, and
it was unbelievable to win.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
They eve, but I did go win for seven different.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
Roles on that show.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Ultimately got that one night, and yeah, that's one of
those roles. I'm sure people can't pictureose anything else. And
again I don't know if they. I believe the show
is on Peacock. I hope it's on Peacock because it'd
be great to go back and rewatch. I know they
just put Homicide Life on the Street in its entirety
on Peacock. But I got to see if they did
that for the Third Watch as well, because that was
a program they took off the year way too soon.

(53:30):
It was so good.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
It was politics. I hate to tell you this. It
was a good show. The problem was NBC's didn't own
any of the shows. John Wells and Warner Brothers owned
the show. Okay, so we were in a nine o'clock
all the last season we were in a nine o'clock
time plot on Friday Night, a big, tiny flow and

(53:52):
they wanted it for an NBC show because they make
more money off You can't blame them. That's their job
to make money. Yeah, So that's it wasn't because of
the numbers. We were doing very good numbers when the show.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Was Yeah, And I felt like that kind of helps
the legacy of the show in a sense that it
went out on top. It went out leaving people wanting more.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
And again another time capsule, because it started in nineteen
ninety nine pre nine to eleven, went through that era
into two thousand and five. That kind of a snapshot
of late nineties into early two thousand's post nine to
eleven New York City. Again, if you haven't watched it,
it's it's a very very good show. Holds up really well.
S seventy six, Mic was on the job. He says,
a good portion of the Third Watch was filming in

(54:35):
ninety four. Got to meet that cast multiple times to
off patrol. Short lived, way too short lived. I agree
with that, but a great show.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Well. One of the reasons, I'm sorry mine.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
One of the reasons why Third Watch is such a
great show is because it was created by and written
by a guy named Ed Banero. Ed Banario had been
a cop in Chicago. That's why the show is called
third Watch and not thirty for two New York City.
We have a we have the producers, but that's how
it got the name, the third One. But he was

(55:06):
a cop himself, much like uh, what happened when you
get Old? The guy from one and on the Arena,
Dennis Karen, another guy in the Chicago cop another wonderful.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Guy by the way, who I knew family well before
he left the light.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Told he did. Yeah, he was great. Joe Fontana Detected
Fontana and he, let me tell you, he didn't have
an easy time with it. And that's not his fault
because he had to replace Jerry Orbat and that was
going to be tough for anybody because Jerry Orbot played
Detective Brisco so well everybody loved them. Unfortunately, Jerry was
really sick and dying with prostate cancer at the time.
So but even though he was only on the show

(55:46):
a couple of seasons, he came in under some tough
circumstances and he made it work. I love detecting Fontana.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
I got I have a great Jerry all that story
if we want to hear it, absolutely okay. So I
get I get hired to do uh more on order
and I'm playing an attorney and in this I got
a scene with Jerry Orbak that I'm gonna cross examine
him on the stand. And it's a four paid scene.
Not the people who are not active, they may not

(56:13):
understand that a four page scene is a very long scene.
So I get the scene about, you know, a week
before I was gonna shoot it, and I'm studying and
learning the lines and all that, and I learned the line.
Now comes time to shoot the scene. We get. We
get into the courthouse and then finish another scene that

(56:35):
they're filming and Jerry comes in and I had met
him and I had worked with him before. He's a
wonderful guy. And he says, okay, give me the side now.
The sides are a small miniograph section of the of
the scene they get that the actor can carry in
the pocket to refer to when they're working. Jerry takes
the scene and does like this, they's one and two

(57:00):
the age four. He says, okay, let's go. He's never
looked at the scene before. I studied it for a week. Right,
he didn't miss a word. He knew that whole scene
like he lived it.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Unbelievably. It was so good and so real. That's a
true testament to a real pro Garry o'lives.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Maybe he left. He was the best.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
Thank you for sharing that story. And he was a
Broadway guy too. He's a letting come Broadway.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
Oh you had to hear him sing? Yeah, I remember
when I saw a forty second Street. I'm saying, Jerry Obank,
this guy's a sing you. I had to know that
he melts out this song forget it.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
And he was a guy from the Bronx. He was
just a guy from the Bronx, but he was through.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Now the episode you're talking about is I feel like
I'm a huge Law and Order fan all three so
the show it is not just the original, although I
prefer the original. I love s for you as well
the earlier seasons and criminal Intent? Was this the corruption
episode from season seven where one of his old partners
accused of him of being on the tape.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
Yeah, it was the watching an episode.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Yeah, it was tinety six.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
Yeah, by the way, they called that you so you
know when you're talking to any law and ordering. The
show you're referring to is referred into business as the
mother Ship. It's the original law and Order. Then, of course,
you know came as to you and then and I
was lucky enough to work in those shows.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Yeahs as is documentared of course in your career. For
those of you that haven't seen that episode in a
while or don't really watch long or too much. Great
episode from season seven it was. It was shot in
late nineteen ninety six. One of Lenny's old partners accuses
him of being undertake and him and Ray Curtis, his
partner at the time portrayed by Ben Brad have to
make sure that they helped clear Briscoe's name. So a

(58:41):
really great episode from really a sweet spot in that
show's history. Now getting back to your career on the
police side, the commendations that you mentioned earlier during your
audition two awards for police commendation to be exact, Merritori's
Police Duty got that four times. Excellent Police Dudy got
that fourteen times, and that was part of the credit
ability ultimately that was needed to be the CEO of

(59:02):
the one to seventh. Now for those that may not
be familiar. Where the seventeenth is. Give me the location
of the seventeenth and how much of a joy that
assignment was, because I'm sure you had a lot of
great cops working under there.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
I did, Okay, So the seventeenth Precinct goes on. It's
on the east side of Manhattan. It starts at thirtieth
Street and enter fifty nine Street. It goes from the
East River to Lexington Avenue and in some places the
Madison Avenue. Now it is, among other things, and how
encompasses the un Complex, and it's called the Fashionable East Side.

(59:38):
It's one of the richest congressional districts in the United States.
If you go two miles north to the South Bronx,
that's one of the poorest congressional districts in the United States.
So there's a dichotomy there. The cops I worked with
were outstanding. It wasn't a big precinct. There were less
than two hundred tops there, if I remember correctly. But

(01:00:01):
I had really first rate officers there working for me.
But I used to tell them, we're all in show business.
You know, if you look good and your equipment is good,
and your cause is pleased. That's half the fact. And
I used to encourage them to get out and talk
to people. I said, because you're never going to know
when these people you're gonna need them, and they'll be

(01:00:21):
there for you. So I was so happy that I
was there, but I hated getting out of Sunday because.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I was already working as an actor.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
In nineteen eighty nine, I was a captain in a
narcotics division and I was playing captain in True Glue
at that NBC show. So I had a full time
job as a captain and I also was working as
the captain. And the ironic thing, the irony of life
that in one day is a captain on television. I

(01:00:55):
made more money than all week is a real captain.
Captains don't get all the time. Really, you know, we
didn't get paid all the time. But I will say
this every day as a captain, when I had the
seventeenth freecint A minimum, your work was twelve hours a
day to get it. There's no even though your tour
was eight hours long. You were always in early and

(01:01:17):
always there late, because that's that's that's just the way
they were. So as when I was a lieutenant I
mean when I made sergeants, when I made captains, they
didn't send me out the patrol because I had such
an important This is their position, not money. But I
had such an important job in the police department, was

(01:01:38):
in the head of the Special Project UNI. They kept
me there. Okay. So then one day I get a
call from the lieutenant who was the aide to the
Chief of the department, who at that time was Robert Johnston,
and the lieutenant says, get up here. The chief wants
to see me. So I go up to the chiefs sargeist. Now, mind,

(01:02:00):
I'm a captain in narcotics. I have a car from
Stirling Johnson from the Special Narcotics Prosecutor's Office, what they
call a Category one car that I can take home.
It's like a big deal. And I make my own hours.
If I get to get a movie or something, I
can take the time off to do the work and
I and I'm good. So I go up to see

(01:02:22):
the Chief of the department and he said, Frank Kelly
must like you, because we're gonna give you a precinct.
You're going to become the CEO of the seventeen Priestinct.
Now I was honored. But it was like taking a
knife and sticking it in my heart, because how am
I gonna do this? How am I gonna take on
the responsibilities of a precinct and try to be an

(01:02:44):
actor at the same time. But of course I said, yes, okay, Chief,
I'm so happy, thank you, thank you, thank you, and
I go to the to the seventeen precincts. Now, when
I get the job, the first thing I do, I
got to report in the borough commander, who's a two
star chief. His name was Walsh at the time. Now,

(01:03:06):
the politics of the police department, meaning as they are,
a borough commander wants to take care of the people
at work than it now. Seventeen preconcs is what they
call a promotable command. They usually put people in there
that are going to get promoted to get to the
inspect So instead of him picking the guy to go
a way through seventeen precincts, this I don't know person

(01:03:30):
I'm headquarters, me gets sent for So they tell me
to report to the Chief's office. I sit there. He
makes me wait for forty five minutes, and I'm sitting
outside and I'm waving twittering my thumbs waiting to see
the Chief. I go went to the Chief's office. He says,
sit down, He says, I just want to tell you
one thing. He said, I didn't ask for you to

(01:03:52):
be here, and I didn't even want you here, but
now that you're here, I'm gonna deal with you. And
that because it reminded me of my bill instructor. You know,
New York is Italian's reservists. So I said to him,
I said, Chief, would all due respect, I didn't ask
to come here, and I didn't want to come here,

(01:04:13):
but now that I am here, I'm gonna try to
be the best commanding officer that you have. Okay, So
I went on. Now before I when I had that
little talk with the big Chief to keep of the department,
he told me that Kelly was giving me his job.
He said, I know you're an actor, and I know
sometimes you need time off. He says, if you ever

(01:04:34):
run into a problem, let me know about it. I'll
take care of now. Chief Walsh was a good guy,
but he had his own rules which weren't necessarily aligned
with the department rules. And one of his rules was
that a priest and commander was not allowed to take
more than two weeks lay case at a time. Now,

(01:04:55):
I don't know if you know, Mike, but we get
like five years. They cas, well, I'm in the precinct,
I don't know, almost two years at the time, and
I get a part in the movie. I'm on vacation
and I get a part in the movie. And I
got to go to Pittsburgh to do the movie. And
I'm gonna work in these movies for three weeks, which
means I'm gonna have my two weeks vacation and then

(01:05:18):
I need another three weeks off. Right, So I called
my inspector, a wonderful guy. He just he just passed
away this year. Inspected the Beesta telling the Beast, and
I said, look, I gotta go see the chief. I
have to ask him for extra time off. I said, Now,
I know he doesn't like surprises, so I want you

(01:05:39):
to tell him why I'm coming to see him. And
I need the time off, I said, because if he
doesn't give me the time off, I have to retire
because I can't afford to pass up this job. I'm
making a nice, nice pay day. So he says, okay,
well I'll tell him and i'll call you back. So
I'm waiting in the afternoon. I'm supposed to go down
and see the chief. So he called me at one o'clock.

(01:06:00):
I'm supposed to be to Chiep at three o'clock. He said, well,
what the chief say. He tells me, Well, the Chief said,
maybe he'll give it to you, and maybe he won't.
I said, respect it. That's not good enough. I can't.
I can't, I can't do that. I gotta I gotta
have it. He said, what can I tell you? I said, okay.
So I had to call the big chief in the
department because he told me if I ever had a

(01:06:20):
problem to call me if I talked to the luken As,
I need to speak to Chief help Chief Johnson. I
need to fucking he and I told him, look, I
got this opportunity, boss, and need three weeks extra vacation
otherwise I have to retire. But he screams on the telephone,
get Chief wall Show on the phone. Taught me to

(01:06:41):
his people out for so he said, he hangs up
on me. Next thing I know, the inspector calls me
back and he said, Chief Wolf said, take as much
time off as you want and just come back whenever
you want to come back. I said, okay, now I
go to Pittsburgh. I did a movie. It was a
great movie. I worked with Tony Danzer and Frank Vincent,

(01:07:04):
a bunch of real good guys. It was about the
murder of a DA agent, Gus Varach, who by chance
I knew when I was in Nacote, so I knew
the whole story. So I do the job. I come
back and back. Then a priestly commander got three gake

(01:07:26):
duties a month. As the duty captain, you're responsible for
all the operations during that day, so normally they gave
you three day duties during the month. The first month
I came back, Chief Walked gave me seventeen duties where
I'd be working my job. Then I'd have to come
back and do a late tour, and then I'd have
to do a four to twelve. So I had to

(01:07:47):
do like seventeen extra tours in that one particularly, But
it all worked out because I did the job, I
got the movie, and I was very well.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
And that's again that's a credit to Chief Josh. And
he's still around by the way, he's in his early
nineties now. But I mean, it takes a lot, and
that's when you look out for guys. Look that's that
was over thirty years ago. You've never forgotten it. So
it goes to show when someone looks out for you
goes a long way. People don't forget that he was.
He was a very good guy, and he was very
supportive of the cops. And one day I was a

(01:08:19):
duty captain down in.

Speaker 3 (01:08:21):
The ninth Precinct. They found Mustard Gas, a cannister from
World War One. So I had the duty and they
tell me Chief Johnston's on his way down there. So
I said, oh, that guy. I gotta get down there
before the chief, because that's You're the duty captain. You
better be there before the chief. So I shoot down there.
I get all the intelligence, I have all the reports.

(01:08:41):
What happened, who's got it? What this digision? Everything? It
was fricking cold. I'm waiting outside the Chief's car fulld up.
This was before sub they drove. They drove the Chief
and like a black, big black four. So the car
comes up and the window goes down this much and
I see the figure going like this in Chief Johnson

(01:09:03):
get in the back of the car, like get in
the back of the car. It's rainy snowy. It's not
a nice day. It turns around and I'm ready to
tell him about you know, the mustard gas and found.
He said, so, I saw you on the show last night.
You were absolutely correct. You really did a good job.
I was so happy. He didn't even care about the
muscle games. He wanted to tell me that he had

(01:09:24):
seen me on television. So that's a good man.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
He was a good death there good indeed. Ultimately it's
just the last one on the seventeenth. I think the
UN is in the confines of that precinct too.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Right, it is, yeah, it is, And yeah it's dealing
with the diplomats is and other education in and of itself,
you know, because they, as you know, they have diplomatic immunity,
and they pulled bet into your death. I spent many
times in the diplomatic dining room and the diplomatic lounge,

(01:09:55):
which is in the UN complex themselves. And the.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Describing experience, I mean, the first instance I heard of that.
I don't know if you had him when he was there,
but salth Formica, who later went on to seven Truck
Emergency Service and finished out his career there. That's where
he started his career in about nineteen ninety or so.

Speaker 3 (01:10:14):
Yeah, he worked with me. He's a wonderful guy, terrific Steff.
I went to his restaurant on Long Island. He's another man,
a wonderful guy. He's got a great family, and he
was He's a good example of the cops that I
had that I was lucky enough to work with in
the seventeenth police. He's a guys and men and women

(01:10:35):
by the way, terrific female supervisors in the seventeen and
in narcotics by the way, and sal was very He's
emblematic of the.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Terrific cops that worked in the seventeenth leaguers.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
These were cops that knew how to get the job done,
knew how to take care of the people that they
were there to protect, but also knew how to protect
the department and his reputation. They would trust worthy. They
were very, very shop and how they comported themselves and
how they looked it was. It was.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
It was fun to go to work with absolutely absolutely.
Ken Bowen, another Emaen cop and Sergeant Es who says, Mike, Joe,
great show. Joe had pleasure of working with you on
the twelve to eighths the night of nineteen eighty three,
Sergeant's example, Lieutenant Young, I drove Lieutenant Young and my
friend Jimmy Chicka Telly.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
I think Jimmy Chicka Telly might have been Chief Chicka
Telly's son. So yeah, no, it was great. It was great.
And that's that's an example. You know what the job
has to do because the night of the exam, you know,
they have to give all the cops off so they
can study the next day. So you have bosses and
people who are not taking the test filing in and

(01:11:46):
doing the regular patrols jobs for the city on that
particular field.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
I'll get to you retire it in ninety two in
a moment, but I did want to touch on this
week talk about it briefly off there. Although your time
on the show is if you really got to work
in a very got to work, i should say, with
a very talented actor and James Scandal feeding of course
many roles over the years, an iconic actor of his generation,
somebody who really commanded the screen. What was it like

(01:12:13):
to share the scream with him and interact offscreen with him?
Because everybody describes him as a really wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
Fact well, having been part of the Sopranos, and then
you said I didn't do that many episodes, although my
character ran through the whole stream of the show. Was
probably the best job except for a baby Va on
Broadway because the not that I mean the third Watch

(01:12:38):
was great, and I was on that show for five years,
and I love all those people. But there was something
special and magical about the Sopranos. The best thing about
it was that there were no egos involved. Jimmy Dandelphi,
who was the big star, was just like he treated
an extra who had no lines, with the same indignity

(01:13:01):
in respect as he wanted or he got for himself.
He was the most kind, hardy, gentle, caring human being
that one of the that I knew. He was one
of the best. A sad thing. My wife and I
happened to be in Rome when he died in the room.

(01:13:22):
You know, we weren't there together, we weren't traveling together,
but we happened to be there and and it was
It was shocking. But a lot of people don't know.
In a little inside baseball that show progression. You know,
they got more and more popular and in show business
when when your show is doing well, everybody gets raised.

(01:13:44):
And there was a point where Jim held out his raid,
wouldn't take a new contract until they elevated all the
people that you know, to see him with an all
those scenes, all the main characters. So they got a
very healthy, low, respected, well deserved rating. It was because

(01:14:08):
of Jim that they got that rating, because you know,
they the shows work on a budget. They want to
they want to make money. But dandel PHOENI made sure
that those people were well taken care of. And when
when we weren't shooting and we were just around each
other together, it was enormous fun. He didn't take himself

(01:14:29):
too seriously. He was a great guy. Uh. We laughed,
we told stories, you know, it was it was just
a wonderful, wonderful experience to be by that show. And
besides Jim, all those other people, Michael Eperio, my very
dear friend, Steve Ripa, Vinny fast Story, all those guys

(01:14:50):
I eated to, Doro, David Prowell, all those people, wonderful,
wonderful people. It was, it was, it was, it was
so much fun just to be part of that thing,
the little contribution that I made. Uh, and you know,
what goes on for EV. It goes on for EV. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
I mean the funny thing with Dave is he if
you watch any interview that he does, he played such
a menacing, horrible individual. Yes, on that show, he was.
His character was one of the more scary characters of
that program. But if you watch any interview he does
in real life, he's one of the nicest guys you'll
ever want to find.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
He is, you know, he was. He was one of
the finalists for the Jimmy's role. He was. He was
one of the last few to be considered for Tony Sperm.
David Prober. Uh you know, fortunately the jim they gave it.
But yeah, but yeah, he was scary and a couple
of the scenes I did on the show was they

(01:15:51):
were with David and he was a very scary guy.
But as you said, as scary as he is in
real life, a sweetheart, a wonderful, wonderful guy. And I
just by chance, you know, I have another friend of mine,
David Eigenberg, who I was on Broadway with. He's in
Chicago fire now. He's a marine like me, and I

(01:16:15):
used to visit him out in la and David Probel's
son lived in the house next door in Burbank, so
we used to you see David Belling the great nice.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Nice one last note before I get back to of
course you retired in ninety two, then we'll get to
the rapid fire. I wanted to go back to Third
Watch for a second because, as I mentioned, you guys
were doing that show in the city during and after
nine to eleven, so it was an important show that
had an audience amongst the police and fire of the city.
Some of the guys that were extras on that show

(01:16:47):
as fireman in real life and as police officers I
mentioned Sergeant Tillis earlier, were killed in Why the Duty
was spinding in the trade center that day when the
towers collapsed. Tell me about just doing that show in
the aftermath, and there was a really pointed episode where
you guys weren't in it at all. It was in
their own words. So that two thousand and one, two
thousand and two season, what was that like during that time?

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
Well, actually I actually went into the show just after.

Speaker 3 (01:17:10):
That, so I only got the aftermath of all of that.
But you thought, like I know that Molly Price, she
married one of the fire men who was on the show,
and no, that was so movie because they still talked
about it even after they had done that episode, you know,
and I think Anthony Leasey, Sergeant Leasey, he was involved

(01:17:32):
in that or you might have used for that. So
it was a hot, wretching experience for the for the
cops that played on Third Watch and for the actions
who played the cops on the Third One.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
Right, that was that was definitely an emotional time and
that episode I wish I could find it. It used
to be on YouTube. They took it down for some reason.
I guess copyright racist, but it'd be nice to see
it again. Nineteen ninety two, you leave, and obviously you
had a very urging career outside of that as an actor,
so I can see why. But it's still not easy
to leave because, as every guy tells me, you know

(01:18:07):
the ft side of the TV side. You've missed the clowns,
you don't miss the circus. But it's the guys and
gals you're doing a job with that make it so
fun and make it worth it. So there's I imagine
a little bit of a tug of war, or maybe
there wasn't, But tell me about ninety two ultimately deciding
for as much as I've loved this, it's time to go.

Speaker 3 (01:18:26):
Well, I didn't make that decision on my own.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
The medical usivator.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
For me. What happened was I got hurt and they
put me out. You know, I hurt my knee and
I wound up. I have no I have no finish day,
I have no a cl on my right knee. I
got hurt at the un add A demonstration and open
umbly they put me out. But I tell everybody, I
mean this as much fun as I have as an actor,

(01:18:53):
and I did, you know very well, you know successfully
if you measured just by the amount of money I
was to earn as an actor. There's nothing like being
on the job. There's just something about it. The camaraderie,
the mutual experience that you have with the cops that

(01:19:14):
you work with. It's just nothing compares to that. No
matter what you do. A lot of cops they go
and they become beds afterwards or big time invested in us.
They make millions of dollars. But they'll all tell you
it's just not the same. So I'm in that camp.
It's just it's just not the same.

Speaker 1 (01:19:33):
It's the greatest show on Earth. And I always quote
Fred Mansililo former guests of this show for my tails
from Boom Room Ani series. As you said, the NYPD
is the show. You have a backstage pass, and you
guys are the show all in one, and the things
that you see in twenty five years, however long it is,
whether you're working the After or the PD, you can
never nobody can ever take the stories away. It's really

(01:19:55):
a one of a time place to work.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
Yeah, you make a difference in people's lives. As you
said FBPD, it doesn't matter. You really make a difference
in many, many people's lives, and that's a very rewarding thing.
So you know, they say like when you get when
you when you leave this earth and you go up
to heaven and Saint Peter's there, he lets form the
cops in the fire mean because they did their time

(01:20:20):
with burg Victorian or even they served their time health.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
I'd never heard that line before. That's definitely once. I
remember Joe, this has been amazing. It's now time for
the rapid fire and it's five pitt Run questions for me,
five pitt Run answers. She needed to say, pass if
you want I'll ask you this question, although you answered
it in part, when did you feel that you could well?
You mentioned, of course being a marine helpy with this,
when did you feel you could juggle both being a

(01:20:46):
copy and being an actor? And which do you feel
was the harder of the two.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
It's harder to be it was harder to be an actor.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Which role challenged you the most?

Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
It just did Ale in a movie called Day of
a Fight where I played a taxicab driver interesst fersed
with my character became Joe Peshy and and Joe Pesci
and Michael Pitt.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
That was that was really hard here, Okay, interesting, I
have to check that out. Funniest story from your days
is an actor on set? And funniest story for your
times a count.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Okay, when I was a cop, I was working in
a detective squad in Brooklyn, and an old lady came
into the police station and she started screaming. She was
cursing up the storm, and she said, and I quote,
but I'll leave the profanity out. He told the sergeant.
I told this mfer if he went to sleep, I

(01:21:43):
was going to split his MF and throat. He went
to sleep, so I split his MF and throat.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
So the sergeant, this is a little old late sergeant
looked at me and said Tucket.

Speaker 3 (01:21:53):
The detective. He came over to me and she said,
I told that person about if he slid it, if
he went to sleep, I was gonna slee with his throat.
So he went to sleep by slid his throat. I said,
where do you live? He said eighty eight. Let'sen to them.
This is in Brooklyn. I said, let's go. So my
partner and I we go. We would get ready to
go out, eat and put her in the unlocked car

(01:22:14):
and drive over to the house. I said, give me
the keys, dig me the keys. I said, don't move anywhere.
This was a woman's like in the late seventies, early ages.
Don't move it here, just sit there. I go up
the stairs. I put the key in the front door
and jiggling the door trying to get the door open.
The door opens. There's a guy standing there with a
towel wrapped around with it was her husband. Oh god,

(01:22:37):
she did slid. She slid his throat, but thank god
she didn't cut him deep enough to cut the yards.
So back then there was this was before domestic violence.
So she said, I said, what what do you want
to do? We got to arrested. No, no, I don't
want to arrest it. I don't want to arrest and
she'll be fine. She'll be fine. So we called the ambulance.
They came, took it, we went to eat, and that

(01:22:58):
was it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
I think I remember hearing you tell that story I'm
police off the cuff, oh some time ago when you
were on that show.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Yeah, I probably do.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
It's nice to hear it again because I actually, as
you're telling it, came back to me that I'd forgotten
about that story. So it's nice to hear you tell
that's always it was some of those old couples, man,
they really they really spin your mind with how they are.
But it's a great story to hear. Thank you for
telling it. H Fourth, you mentioned eating after a long
day of being on the job. Where was your favorite
spot to stop in for a bike?

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
Well, in Brooklyn, there wasn't any places to go and
stop there, but you know I used to get invited.
You've heard of Raios, of course, and I used to
go to Rao's almost for a long time. I used
to go almost every Monday, night with a good friend
and a good cop, Sunny Russia. So even when I
was still on the job, you would call me up
on Mondays Day, come on, let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
So that was That was my favorite restaurant back then,
probably still, although I don't go there anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
There's two cops that they're not around anymore, but I
wish I could have talked to them. Had this podcast.
But around then, he's one of the other ones, Joe Coffee.
But sadly both those guys have since died.

Speaker 2 (01:24:08):
And I knew both those guys.

Speaker 3 (01:24:09):
I knew Joe Coffee and Frank Darby was another guy
who was kind of like a partner. Joe was a sergeant,
Frank was a detective, but they kind of worked together.
And I don't know if you know, but Joe Coffee
had a God forgive me. He had a wiretap on
the Vatican back that he said, he just say, yeah,
you don't know this inside more inside baseball they were.

(01:24:31):
They were I believe they were uh kind of laundering
money or something. And anyway, he had he had a
wire that went into the Vatican. Joe Coffee and Sonny
was he was unbelievable. Sonny Brossel. He's the guy that
helped me get into say you know, you know, because

(01:24:51):
he was a producer and he got me my said,
which started it all. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
And I know Joe Coffee is as a primarily as
mafia investigator. He asked so many great stories from that.
Of course he danced with Missus Reagan one time as well,
but I can't knew that's that's inside baseball for sure.
The last question of the rapid fire, advice you'd give
cops coming on the job now, and this is two
part question rookie cops and also since you were a
commanding officer for a long time, advice you'd give new

(01:25:19):
bosses on the job.

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
Well, I think I told you about being the boss.
You've got to be tough, but always be fair. The
cops respect that. You don't understand it. You can't be
a hypocrite, you can't be two pays. But that would
be the advice that I would give to a young supervisors.
Don't try to be their friends. They want you to
be their boss. If your job is to take care

(01:25:42):
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:25:43):
You putect well said, this was a heck of a show.
Well worth the wait to get you on my friend,
Thank you very much. Stick around. We'll talk off there
before I say goodbye to the audience. Any shot out
to anyone or anything. The floor is yours.

Speaker 3 (01:25:55):
Well listen. I want to say thank you you Mike
for having me on the show, but I want to
say everybody will you can give a great thanks to
all the cops and firemen all over the country, actually
all over the world, because when I was in Special Projects,
I used to entertain cops from all over the world,

(01:26:15):
including the Soviet Union. We had cops from Moscow came
to New York and we were trained them too. And
one thing that cops know is no matter where you're
a top, the problems the job is the same all over.
What's different from the NYPG is that they do more
of it, but it's exactly it's basically the same job

(01:26:36):
all over the place. So everybody, when you see a cop,
you go past the firehouse, say hello to the firefighters
they're standing in the doorway. You see a cops, say
good morning, save good afternoon, and that it will go
a long way. And don't forget our people in uniform,
especially my brother and sister Marine, who simplify.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
And as Chris Spten brings hum in a chat. Are
you people too? We don't want to forget ems. I
forgot a MS. I'm sorry about that much.

Speaker 3 (01:27:03):
No, we should not forget them. You're right, one hundred
percent right, my mayor of Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
You sorry, Chris. He was a long time year City
EMS and briefly FDNYEMS two on the merger, so shout
out to them as well. Thanks to everybody that tuned in.
Rather you watch tonight on LinkedIn, YouTube or Facebook, and again,
please continue to keep Miles Sun's family of prayers as
they grievous loss, and a shout out to Miles. He
was a wonderful guy and a wonderful friend and great
to know. Coming up next on the Mike the Numazing Podcast,

(01:27:30):
we got one show left for the year, then we're
done for the year. Working on this one for a
long time. It'll finally come to fruition. In the FDN
Y for twenty five years, seventy nine to four, in
FEMA for a long time too. So he wore two
hats between the federal side emergency response of course, the
fireside of New York City. Former fd and Y Battalian
Chief Phil Park we'll be here for volume sixty five

(01:27:51):
this Monday, after the last show of the year of
the best and bravest interviews with the f and Ys,
and it's looking forward to that again this Monday, six pm.
Phil Park, retired f did live Italian Chief Now for
those of you listening on the audio side tonight. For
tonight's outro song, we once again returned to Warren Zeebon
and his nineteen eighty nine album Transfer City, as this
time he comes your way with long Arm of the Wall.

(01:28:12):
In the meantime, I'll be a half to retired NYPD
captain and actor Joelsi. I am Mike Glone. We we'll
see you next time. To everyone for the great week
and please have safe.

Speaker 3 (01:28:50):
Where I was young times when I got older, wom
first word I ever heard, nobody moved, nobody get hurt.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
It's a la horse, It's a summer home. It's the storm.
It's the love. It's not of the law. It's the
law has farm. It's a straw ho it's the storm,
it's a it's my mom of the law. After the
war in Paraguay.

Speaker 3 (01:29:26):
Back in nineteen.

Speaker 5 (01:29:28):
Ninety nine, I was staying low and fever, working both
sides of the border had it's the law.

Speaker 4 (01:29:38):
It's a it's a straw. It's the farm. It's an
of the law.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
It's the law.

Speaker 4 (01:29:46):
It's the lama.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
It's the straw.

Speaker 3 (01:29:48):
It's the strong.

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
It's gonna.

Speaker 3 (01:29:50):
It's of the law.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
It's on the house.

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
It's the straw. It's the storm.

Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
It's a it's the law.

Speaker 3 (01:30:01):
It's the law.

Speaker 4 (01:30:02):
It's the strong.

Speaker 1 (01:30:04):
It's just it's the storm of the law.

Speaker 4 (01:30:09):
You can do that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:11):
You can't kill.

Speaker 4 (01:30:25):
It's not how I'm not a snog. Oh yeah, it's
the something that's coming out of it. It's the strong man.

Speaker 3 (01:30:37):
It's the law. Now told to test your innocence. Only
the dead get all Scott breathe. When the judge says,
who done it?

Speaker 4 (01:30:55):
You'll be kind, not me, don't Sam study

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