Episode 354: The Beat: NYPD Chief & Suffolk Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison (Volume 16)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
We're not out there fighting anything other than crime.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
We see stuff that nobody should have to.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
You know, George thirty one erect now.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Didn't make your car.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
You're listening to the beat profiles of police nationwide. He
had his entire career in New York State, and of
course the chapters are still being written in his career.
It's been a long time coming to get tonight's guest done.
And that note, we welcome you to the Friday night
edition of Mike the New Haven, first live show that
we've done since late January. I was away for a while,

(00:55):
you know, of course, during my endeavors in Fire Academy
and back now. Of course, we previously had a show
with Dave Riley for volume fifty one of the emat
Inside the NYPD's Emergency Service Unit, and of course our
interview with Roger Clements, two time World Series Champion, one
of the best pictures in MLB history, which thank you
for all the support on that one. That one did
very well and we're sure tonight's interview will do very

(01:16):
well as well. So we appreciate that. It's good to
be back live. We missed all of you and we
look forward to interacting with you over the course of
the program. Rather you'd be watching tonight on YouTube, Facebook
or LinkedIn. Of course, Producer Victor on the Ones and
Tuesday Night in the Corner. I've been begging him to
show his face, so now you'll get to see him
going forward down there in the corner, guiding things along

(01:37):
very smoothly as he always does. You won't waste too
much time or run this ad live for the first
time January as well. Our friend the Great Billy Ryan.
The Mike Thing to Have In podcast is proudly sponsored
and supported by the Ryan Investigative Group. If you need
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(01:58):
a twenty year veteran of the Department who served the
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seven four one seven sixteen ten Again three four seven
four one seven sixteen ten, reach him at his website
or the email that you see here. Again, if you

(02:19):
need a PI, look no further than Bill Ryan and
the Ryan Investigative GROO. A proud supporter and sponsor of
the Mike Den Newhaven podcast. Billy Still He's been retired
for over twenty years now, but he's still a detective
at art. Every time I talk to him, he's always
on the go. My next guest has built an extraordinary
career in law enforcement, rising from police cadet to ultimately
the highest rank and uniformed officer in the New York

(02:40):
City Police Department. Its leadership is shaped major policing strategies,
from overseeing citywide investigations as Chief of Detectives to managing
all operational bureaus as ultimately the Chief of Department, and
of course, beyond his time with the NPD, upon his
retirement from the agency in twenty twenty one, he served
as Police Commissioner of Suffolk County, playing a pivotal role
in several high profile cases, including a course which we

(03:03):
will discuss in depth tonight, the Gilgo Beach serial killer investigation.
Currently in the private sector, he's thetreat chief, excuse me,
Strategy Officer at Patrol and Risk and that for this
volume sixteen of the beat profiles of police nationwide. We're
happy to welcome retire NYPD Chief of Department and retired
Suffolk County Police Commissioner Bobby Harrison, Commissioner. Welcome, how are you.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
I'm blessed and thank you for having me on your show.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Thank you for making the time for us. We appreciate it.
Long time coming to get you on. Before we get
into anything involving your journey in policing, just take me
through where you grew up.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
So I grew up in a co op called the
Rosdelle Village which is in Jamaica, Queens. I actually got
bussed out to Bayside and I went to Benjamin Cardoza
High School in Bayside, but I lived in Rochestelle Building
sixteen for twenty three years. Actually my parents still live

(03:56):
over in Building sixteen. Then I met my lovely bride.
We got our own apartment in Circle two in Rochdale
and we had a winding bedroom apartment and Rochelle's you
know as a great place to uh to live and
unless you have two kids in a single bedroom apartment.
So it was time for us to venture out east

(04:17):
and we moved out to Baldwin, New York and we
have been living out there for the last I want
to say, twenty years now, so it's been a big,
a great run. But I'm very familiar with the with
the New York area as well as the Long Island
based upon how I grew up there.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
So did you know from an early age that you
wanted to be a police officer at least have some
involvement in civil service?

Speaker 2 (04:45):
No, unfortunately I did not. My father was a bus driver.
He rose to the rank of being a chief of
labor relations. My mother was a nurse. But unfortunately, growing
up in Rochdale and Jamaica Queens, I had negative interactions

(05:06):
with law enforcement, be it rify So or just being
at the wrong place at the wrong time. These bad
interactions put me in a place to be a little
bit of a little sour towards law enforcement NYPD as
well as the perception of wanted to go into that

(05:28):
type of work at that time wasn't the cool thing
to do, So in essence, I didn't grow up I
wanted to do that. One of the things that I
did do is I ended up going to Springfield College
in Massachusetts. I played freshman basketball my first two years
I brought home I think it was a one point
nine and the two point oh GPA. I realized that

(05:52):
I wasn't going to be going to the NBA or
playing for the Knicks, so I stopped playing ball after that,
and I pursued my major in physical education with the
aspirations of becoming an athletic director. This is actually a
very good story in my I had to do one
more year because my grades was so bad in my

(06:13):
first year or so, and my father gave me an
ultimatum which kind of changed my trajectory in life, which was, listen,
I'm not paying for your last year's school. You can
either go into the military. You could either get a job,
or you could drive this Cadet Corps program where it
would pay for your last year's school, and then you

(06:34):
can either pay the loan back or go into the
police department. And that's a whole nother story after that,
after that adventure, and.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Who would have thought right from something like that to
where you ultimately ended up. We're talking with the retired
County Police Commissioner and retired NYPD Chief Department Rodney Harrison
here in the Mike the New Haven Podcast. It's volume
sixteen of the beat. Like I said, if you have
any questions in the chat, fire away and we'll make
to highlight them at the appropriate times. So the cadet
program being what it was back then, you were in

(07:05):
it for a year, what exactly did it consist of,
and how did it ultimately shape what was previously a
negative perception of law enforcement into a positive form.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's a great question. And the answer
is you saw the human side of the police officers.
You know, I was assigned to do administrative work, but
yet at the same time helped out with community events.
And one of the I believe if I remember it

(07:33):
was a community FIAS officer or a seapop cop put
together a cops and kids basketball game. And because I
was a cadet and they knew that I played basketball
because we sauld you know, kind of do a pickup
games during their all duty time, they asked me to
come play and we played with a group of kids

(07:54):
from from Bayside. Because I was a cadet in the
one to eleven precinct, and during that engagement, I had
an opportunity to talk about the pros and the cons
of you know, how you're growing up in certain parts
of the city, and how to kind of stay out

(08:16):
of trouble and stay away from certain people because these
individuals could put you in a very, very difficult position.
And I'll circle back with that in a.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Second, but you know, just being able to have that
engagement with the youth and really at halftime, just being
able to see how the cops were engaging and mentoring
and molding and providing.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Some type of mentorship was the game changer for me.
That put me in a place to say, this is
something I want to do for the rest of my life. So,
you know, my negative interactions which I didn't talk about
one time it was actually falsely arrested.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Then I ended up going to the Cadet Corps and
seeing the great work and the community engagement was really
something that you can't explain how something from a negative
goes to such a positive. And I really cherished my
time frame as cadet, and you know, that allowed me

(09:18):
an opportunity to say, this is something I want to do.
And I went into the nineteen ninety two class in
June into the police Academy.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Police academy is pretty rigorous, especially back then, you know,
any academy that you do rather be fire or police
is not going to be easy, and instructors want to
see and I learned that firsthand in my experience. Who's
going to break early on and who has the proper
mold the mentality to do the job. So just take
me through your academy experience what that consisted of, and
just gradually building the mental toughness needed to be an

(09:51):
effective police officer, especially in a place like New York City.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah. So, you know, one of the things that with
I was sounding self absorbed. I was always in pretty
good shape, so the physical fitness part was something that
came somewhat natural for me. Now, mind you, I'm twenty
three years old. I'm still a little bit of a knucklehead.
And I actually struggled in first with the classes, but

(10:18):
then I put my mindset in a better place. I
started focusing all my study on the classes. I knocked
it out the ballpark. I actually did very well in
a lot of the classes, which were police science and
social science. When it came to the quarterly test, which
is extremely important in order for you to be a
successful police officer. But one thing that people don't know

(10:41):
about me is. I actually met my wife in the
police Academy. I was in Company ninety two thirty six.
She was in Company ninety two thirty five. And you know,
we went from a place from you know, just becoming
friends to a situation where we started commuting in back
and forth to ended up becoming a boyfriend and girlfriend.

(11:02):
And then once we got the academy, we got an
apartment in Rochesdale, and then the rest was history.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
That's an awesome story. And there's many stories like that,
of course, that I've heard. I'm unfortunate to hear on
this show, both on the fireside and the police side alike.
So once you got out of the academy back then,
of course three different police departments, you ended up going city.
You weren't a sign a transit, you were not assign
the housing. That's what's the case. Back then, you didn't
know where you were going to go until they told you.
But with that being said, what was your first command

(11:32):
out of the academy, because we at this point the
NSUS had gone away. I think it was ftu's at
this point, wasn't it.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yes, it was. I so funny. Another funny story I'm
which I'm gonna pubbly say that quite often to that's fine.
My father knew one of the police commissioners drivers I
think it was been bored, I believe it was, and

(11:57):
he asks, you know, where where did I want to go?
So he said, you know, give me three commands that
you'd be interested in. So three commands that I chose.
And I didn't want to go somewhere too busy, but
I didn't want to go somewhere slow. But I did
want to go somewhere where I could definitely learn the job,
but yet the same time not be overwhelmed. So I
chose I think it was the one fourteen, the one

(12:17):
fifteen and another command in Queens and forever reason. I
ended up going to the one fourteen and it was
really a great experience and I met cops there that
were true professional at their craft. I started off doing midnights, well,

(12:38):
we started off doing FTU, of course, then I ended
up doing midnights with my partner Neil Consela. We actually
had sector idea which was Queensbridge Projects, which is I
think the first or the second biggest development in the city.
But you know, PSA nine was sometimes overwhelmed, so anytime
something happened. You know, that was pretty much a job

(12:59):
that we had to hand though, and I learned a lot,
you know, just based upon you know that sector integrity
and making sure we handled the jobs correctly, and it
just you know, it really was a great learning experience
of patrol. But I will also say this was very
short lived. And what I mean by that was as
much as I liked the patrol part, as much as

(13:21):
I enjoyed my partner, and the men and women in
the one fourteen precinct really really really incredible incredible police officers.
And I could I could name a whole bunch of
the Midi Kievan Barta and Artunian, Jose Bravo, Miguel Iglesias,
some really really incredible cop Mike Walker, Cory Bygheese, I mean,

(13:41):
some really good cops that really became successful in the NYPD.
But I always wanted to be an undercover and that
was something that I took a liking to When I
saw a television show with Mali Yoba and Malik Yoba
was undercover and this I think the show was called

(14:02):
New York Undercover YEP, and I was kind of like
fascinated with his position and you know, doing the undercover work.
And I said, you know, that's something that I would
like to do, is you know, be an undercover and
see where that could that could lead me in my career.
So as much as I liked the patrol thing, I
really had my eye on being an undercover. And you

(14:25):
know that opportunity came afterwards.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
I didn't get the chance to see the show in
real time when it was on the air in the nineties,
but I've gotten to see the reruns over the years.
That was a great show, Ali Gio, but Michael di
Lorenzo laurd Villez. That was a really really good show.
For those of you that haven't seen it, it's on
Amazon Prime. Go watch the reruns. That was it was
ahead of its time. It was really ahead of its time.
So undercover work back then, I mean, it's never been
a joke, you know, but especially back then, there was

(14:51):
a real effort. First during Ray Kelly's first Tennis police commissioner.
That of course, when Bratton came in in ninety four
to take the streets back. The city was coming off
of its worst crime Surgey had a couple of years prior,
with homicides reaching record highs. So the initiatives there, and
part of that involves the undercover work. But before we
get into the work itself, tell me about just getting there.
You know, you got to at least get your foot

(15:13):
in the door first. You got to be an active
street cop. Tell me about just how the opportunity came
about to finally live that dream he had.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah, you know, you know what's funny is and I
was always I want to consider myself an active cop,
but I was also young in a job. I had
maybe a year and a half on patrol. Once again,
I was doing midnights, made some pretty good arrests, but
it wasn't a long stint on patrol where there was

(15:41):
such a thing where you had to be some long
time proactive cop. I think there was a shortage of
undercovers and at that time was kind of like right
around the crack epidemic that was really poison in the city.
So they were looking to pick up anybody that would
be looking to do this dangerous this dangerous type of work. So,

(16:04):
uh I I applied for it. I was interviewed. Uh
the like what they heard. They asked me where I
would be interested in. I kind of knew a little
bit of the makeup of of how it would work.
I knew I couldn't have success in Queens because you know,
I was from Queens and you know, being undercovered, the

(16:26):
chances of me went into somebody was was probably very likely.
I didn't want to go to the Bronx for a
couple of reason. Morent there's a travel Number two is
the Bronx in Manhattan North for my undercovers that you know,
maybe listening is uh. You had to buy inside, and
you know anytime, anytime you had to buy drugs inside

(16:47):
and they locked the doors behind you. You know, a
lot of things go wrong, and unfortunately we've lost a
lot of great undercovers for doing such brave work in
those boroughs. But you know, it's something where it's very
it comes with a with a life of danger. So
I chose to go to Brooklyn and I went to

(17:07):
Brooklyn North. I was turning out the Navy Yard. I
was on the condoor team, and the investigators were incredible.
I had some great undercovers that worked for me, Mark Amos, Nevillson,
Nelvis Centino, Mike Stoney h And we went out there
and kick butt and we really did a great job of,

(17:27):
you know, really identifying those drug dealers and buying into
them and placing them under arrest, which you know a
lot of people may not understand the difficulty of being undercover.
Anybody could buy drugs, but you have to be able
to buy drugs with the mindset of that person being

(17:48):
placed in the arrest. So and no, it's even harder
when you're trying to retrieve pre recorded by money and
trying to recover the stash and holds of other things,
and very very difficult, difficult job. I have the utmost
respect for anybody that does the undercover work, and not
just any NYPD anywhere, because to me, it's the most

(18:11):
dangerous job in law enforcement. And you know, I'll get
into incident that happened with me and my partner shortly,
but yeah, it was a really great opportunity for me
to go to Brookly North and take on this new
line of work of being undercover and going after the
worst of the worst that we're poisoning on a city.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
And around this time, like you said, to your point
of the danger, it's still raw because Louis Lopez had
only gotten killed two years prior in nineteen ninety three,
similar situation undercover buy and bus where I think he
was buying inside when he was shot on that buying bus.
So you know, listen, it is very dangerous work. Sean
Carrington's name comes up a lot on the show as well,
for the same situation in nineteen ninety eight. And I

(18:57):
always like asking this to undercovers. Rather they operate on
the police side or the federal law enforcement side, there's
a credibility aspect. You know, these guys have always said
with most criminals, some of them are just dumb. But
some of them, it's not that they're necessarily dumb people.
They're smart guys and girls making really dumb choices in life.
So they know how to spot the nark per se

(19:18):
versus someone who is a legit buyer. And you got
to peel through that facade of suspiciousness that they have.
So tell me about trying to craft that identity as
an undercover where you're able to break them down, gain
that trust and get them to relax.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, you know, it's funny. I don't know if you're
you know, you've spoken to people about, you know, my career,
but you're hitting some very good points here and when
I first got to Brooklyn North and I was looking
to buy, I struggled. I was trying too hard to
portray myself as a as a crackhead, and once again

(19:52):
I was in patient shape. I tried to dirty myself up,
you know, anything from getting my hair braided, to be
putting a go tooth in my mouth, you know, you know,
dressing down like like a like a scale. And I
really really struggled my first I'll even I'll even say
a couple of weeks being an undercover, and then I think,

(20:15):
actually I think it was Mark Amos. I'll give him credit.
Mark was just like, yo, bro, just just be yourself.
And I would dress up like a mechanic. I would,
you know, act like, you know, this is not necessary
for me. It's a girlfriend or somebody else, or you know,
I only do a little bit of it. And I
you know, I had to write conversational points to to

(20:38):
get people to buy trusting to me. You know, you know,
guys would say say, yeah, listen, you don't look like
a drug dealer. I mean, excuse me. So many use
the drugs and I would come up with a quick
response and say, hey, listen, this is for a girl
that I'm messing with or something else that allowed me
to get over. And after that I was I was
killing and booking North and we really did a lot

(20:58):
of great work. And it's all about having the right
people around you to mentor you to make sure they
help you through difficult times. And I always got to
thank the men and women that were undercovers in Brooklyn
North because I did struggle, and maybe Strove was for me.
I got my niche, and then after that I was
killing it in Brooklyn North, and I think at one

(21:20):
point I was leading the Brooklyn North in boys. So
it really became a skill set.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Just being myself, that's a key, obviously. And we'll continue
with this conversation with Commissioner Harrison. Just a moment a
shout out to our friends tuning in tonight. Callum Beardsney
Beardsney rather Terry mcnaine is in the chat. Steve Slavsky,
Bill Ryves who I mentioned earlier, Steve stephan achis who
still get that done. In Truck ten of the Emergency
Service units watching, he says, hey, Chief, looking great as always,
and Jim Hernandez is watching via Facebook and he says hello,

(21:52):
good man. As well to your commissioners. So no, that's important.
And this was a good time for the New York
City Police Department, like we said, and was there he
was a forward thinking Commissioner Safer came in. It was
more of the same underneath the lake Commissioner Safer. And
you know what, you're putting a dent in some really
bad business. It generates a lot of revenue, but not
the kind of revenue you want or need. It destroys families,

(22:14):
destroys communities, and you had to have, i imagine listened.
It's an effort city wide, but you had to have
looked at certain neighborhoods, saw the improvement, and there has
to be a moment where obviously when you're in the
key of the moment doing the work, you can't but
once you're done with a certain case saying wow, we're
really cleaning this place up.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, So I'm going to share a quick story with you.
September of nineteen ninety five, there was a big gang
war going on in Bedside, Brooklyn and it was encompassed
in seven ninety eighty one. And you know they did

(22:53):
send the borough Crime or at the time, scouting the
street crime guys over in an area, but they also
acts the narcotics team to do their work over there
as well, And you know, it's it's it's it's funny
because it was such a long time ago, but I
remember like it was like it was yesterday that the leaders,

(23:14):
the investigators of our team were dead against us working
in the area where there's a lot of shootings. Like
you know, if you want to the dress shootings, you
send the street crime with guys over. You have a
drug problem, you send the narcotics guys. That's the way
we're supposed to work. But anyway, whoever the leadership was
chose to, you know, change our tours to midnight and

(23:37):
tell us to go into this problematic area where these
games were having these these issues. So the first night
after we got this directive, Marcus Garvey and Van Buren
that intersection which is actually right in the corner of
the seven ninety eighty one, the first set we went to,

(24:01):
My partner Michael Sonny got shot. He was ghost to me.
After I approached a couple of what I thought were
drug dealers, supposed we were known for selling crack at
that corner. I engaged a couple guys. And now mind
you this, think about this. This was like during a
midnight timeframe. I think it was about probably about twelve o'clock,
a little bit after twelve, so not to me, people

(24:24):
were out there at that time frame. Approached a group
of dudes on the corner. They told me to get
out of here. They don't sell drugs. There went a
couple of blocks down, see if anybody else was hustling.
Came back. Of course, Michael Stoney, who was my ghost,
had to trail me. You know, I'm now walking back
to the car, and these guys got raised up and

(24:44):
just started shooting at my partner, Michael, and he got
shot in his left arm and they went through his
arm and into his chest. Then me and the assailant
started shooting. We were probably about forty five feet away.
I had my I didn't get my my semonto Matta yet.
Michael had a browning. I had my smith and Western

(25:06):
thirty eight. Me and his guy shooting at one each other.
Bolts are flying passed my head. I'm trying to catch him.
I fired four times, miss him. He runs off. Michael
Stoney while he's down in the middle of the street,
pulls out his gun shoots at the guy as well,
So now we're both shooting at our at our perpetrator,

(25:27):
and uh, you know, one thing led to another. Ten
thirteen's put over. The investigators came in, scooped that Michael
Stoney took him to a trauma hospital and we waited
later on that that night, maybe very very shortly after
that night, recover the gun and we were able to
identify Leandre Hart who was the perpetrator. Went to jail

(25:48):
for a very long time, but a very very scary
time frame. You know. You know, the bullet still is
in Michael Stoney's back. Unfortunately, the doctor felt it would
be dangerous for them to go in and do surgery.
But you know, I have a tough time talking about

(26:12):
it because it still hurts knowing that I almost lost
somebody who I love in Michael Stoney, who was really
not just a coworker, but a very good friend of mine.
He also lived in Rochdale. His wife and my wife
are very good friends. Ironically enough that we're having this conversation.
My wife is actually down in Virginia right now with Maria.
But it was something that kind of changed my mindset

(26:37):
regarding okay, well, I need to go up and rank
and see if I could make changes in the police apartment,
because I was very unhappy that we were kind of
throwing into the fire of going out there where there's
a lot of guns and things of that type of violence,
and my partner being shot on the first set. So

(27:00):
once again he survived. He's doing well. You got three
quarters off the job, we got the combat Cross, we
got promoted to detectives, like right after, right after, like
within we had ten or eleven months on the job.
And it was something that really opened my eyes regarding
the struggles and the violence that New York City has

(27:22):
to deal with, and the work of so many great
men and women in the NYPD regarding how they're really
trying to do what they can do and put their
life on a line to make the city safer. And
I guess I see the formation of how the city

(27:45):
has changed, and it's really we've we've come such a
long way since since nineteen ninety five.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Oh, of course thirty years since then. And it played
perfectly into what I was originally going to ask you,
which is, listen, you're not superman. You have emotions, you
have feelings, an experience like that. I was going to
ask you be answered it, well, there was how does
that change you emotionally, not just as a police officer,
but as a person, And that was something that ultimately
inspired you to want to go up and rank you. Look,

(28:14):
I mean not that you weren't aware of the mortal
dangers of policing before. Every police officer is aware of
at the moment they step out the door to begin
the tour, but after having lived it now, it was,
for lack of a better way to word, it was real.
And I guess that was what made you at least
want to start studying. For sergeant, I imagine.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
It was I don't want to sit here and point
fingers and blame the leadership in NYPD for putting us
at risk. But I will say after that incident, I
had a mindset of listen, I would love to one

(28:52):
day be the chief of OCCB. And everybody knows that,
you know OCCB when she got this into the detective Bureau.
But that was something that was on my mindset of
focus of you know, study hard, work hard, you know,

(29:14):
you know, be the best you can be in anything
is possible. So that incident really pushed me through the
doors to really study hard and put the time in
and invest in trying to go up and rank. And
I had a really blessed career being mentored by so

(29:35):
many different people.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Of course, and it showed. It showed how far you
got and of course the reputation you were able to
build along the way. So making sergeant in the spring
slash early summer of two thousand a pivotal moment for you.
Now the mentality shifts to another aspect where it's not
just making sure you look out for your own safety
or that of a partner who's riding in a sector
car with you. Now you have a group, and now

(29:57):
you have different personalities to manage, and now you want
to get a field not only on these individuals, but
also you want to build that trust. It's not easy
to do no matter how much training you have. You
don't really get to do it until you're in the
command and you're able to work with them. So tell
me where after you got out of I think BMCK
was a thing at the time, was it not for
new sergeants? After you got out of b mock and

(30:17):
you got that training, where was your command? And tell
me about just trying to build your reputation as a
boss that these officers could trust.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
So there's a couple different ways I'm going to respond.
And the first thing I want to share is I
wanted to go to a busy house, and I don't
think it gets any busier than the Seventh three. Seventh
three is one point two square miles, a lot of
different developments, a lot of violence. It's probably one A

(30:49):
or one B when it comes to shootings every year.
And I said, this is something that that's the command
I want to go to, which was a seventh three
or the seven five, just to kind of be in
the mix of having to deal with violence. That's that
was the first thing which I ended up going to
the seventh three, which was which is an incredible, incredible

(31:13):
place to work, and the legacy of people that have
come out of seventh three, the names are, the names
are endless. Uh So I get to seven three and
I found myself going to midnights. Now midnight's actually worked
out for me because I'm still a what we call
a coach's dad, which I at the time, I have

(31:35):
two daughters. They're into sports. I coached them in soccer
and basketball, so I could do all the things with
them after school, try to get a couple hours of sleep,
and then going for the midnights and do what I
have to do as a supervisor. The next thing that
you know, people need to understand is anytime you get

(31:56):
promoted to sergeant, you're gonna be challenged. Listen comes with
the territory. It's not just as necessary as seven three.
It's can be any command that you that you go to.
Where now they're going to look into who you are,
where you came from. Are you somebody who could be
trusted or you somebody who can lead us? Have you
been in the trenches? And you know, I think that

(32:17):
the sar You know, my proactive work, even though it
was a short window in one fourteen, the work that
I was involved in in narcotics, and by the way,
I also got flipped to an under investigator during my
time frame in narcotics, and then I also went to
the seven one squad for three years, so you know,

(32:39):
being in the seven one squad, I was worked with
some really impressive investigators there. Pete Margrave, Josh Santiago, Jim
McCaffrey from Brooklyn South Homicide Byron McLain, Darryl Went, Dal Grant,
went for Justice, Adam Krum. I mean, the NICHO list

(32:59):
goes on and on and on and on about the
investigators that worked in a seven one that showed me
how to do investigation, especially Jimmy McCaffrey. I want to
make sure I give them the appropriate shoutout, so you know,
when you go into the seventh three, these see what
type of person you are and be welcoming because they
saw that I was somebody who was in the trenches

(33:21):
involved in the shooting, solved a couple of homicides and
a seven one squad. And the most important thing that
I want to share for my newly promoted sergeants is
you can learn from your cops. It's okay, like you're
not going to walk into a new Pereston and know
it all. And it's a good thing to have that

(33:42):
relationship with your cops and learn from them and let
them show you certain things as well as you show
them certain things from your whatever your experience may be.
But the worst thing you could do as a frontline
supervisor is be the know it all person. Work together,
make sure you work as a team, get their ideas,
pick their brain become a sponge, and that there will

(34:06):
make you a stronger supervisor. The worst thing you could
do is go in there and act like you know
it all and just be a boss and be hardheaded
and not want to listen to the people that are
out there grinding every single day. So you know, the
Seventh three had some impressive cops, especially on the midnight
I had the A two squad and listen, if anybody

(34:28):
doesn't know about the seven three in the early two thousands,
I think we were tops in the city and shootings.
It seems like every time I came to work, there
was a shooting that he either happened the night before
or during the day. It was just a very, very
violent time. But we did a lot of great police work,
and you know, we were able to take some really

(34:50):
bad people off the streets.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
That's the most important thing. Of course, you got to
get your hands dirty, especially in neighborhoods like that where
the majority of the people And we've had this conversation before,
especially when I've had former housing cops on the show, Jordan,
of the people living in these neighborhoods are good people.
It's really ninety percent of them. Are excellent people, they're hardworking,
they're honest. You just got that ten percent that's ruined
it for them. And that's where the NYPD steps in.
Back in the old days, the New York City Housing

(35:14):
Police as well puts a stop to it, or at
least puts a dent in it. And you had this
role for five years, you were primarily on the midnights.
When did you feel and maybe it was a combination
of moments, or maybe it was a specific moment where
you felt you finally settled in and felt comfortable as
a boss.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
So I apologize, I don't want to correct you, but
I wasn't primarily on midnights. I did a little time
of midnights. The position I did my most of my
time there was the anti crime sergeant.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Yes, keep you better play close?

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah. Oh and really, you know between Dave Sentino, Jimmy McGarry,
jse A Ortiz, Rudy Hall, Brandon Bursch, Mike Cool Jello,
you know Mike Losco who was the other sergeant, the
other team, Brian Levitt. I don't think people realize how
many guns we got off the streets. I mean, we

(36:08):
were just competing against each other. You know, putting our
hands on very very violent people. There was one incident
that I could share where I was a crime sergeant
and we you know, technically as a crime team, you're
not supposed to respond to gun runs. But we were
right around the corner and we jump out the car

(36:31):
and young ladies out front. She has like a swollen eye,
she's crying and she's says that her boyfriend just put
a gun in her mouth. And he's inside that building
and me and my team go running in. I'm not
happy with the tactics that I that I did that day.
And as soon as we ran in the building and
we were going up the landing, which is probably about

(36:54):
twelve steps, the same individuals at the top of the
steps pulled out a gun from around the anister and
pulled the trigger. For whatever reason, by the grace of God,
the gun jammed, he took off. We were able to
chase him up the flat as is. He jumped out
of a window called over thirteen. He was in the backyard,

(37:17):
locked him up and got the gun. But the moral
of that story is the dangers that come with what
we do every single day, and you never know what's
going to be around that corner, and how do you
take that situation and make sure you not only you

(37:39):
personally learn from it, but now you're teaching other young
cops to make sure that if you do get a
situation like this, take cover, get as much information as possible,
and other things from that. So there are learning curves
as being a frontline supervisor and you're going to make mistakes.
They're going to be situations where you know you're going

(38:00):
to be driving home like, yeah, no, I f that
one up. I could have did better. I got to
make sure that you know, going forward, I don't make
that mistake again. And I think that's one of the
things that comes with being a proactive police officer is
you're going to make a mistake. It is what it is.
The key thing is, don't make that mistake again. And

(38:21):
once you learn, be it how to put your hands
on somebody and put your hands in a certain situation
where you could recover some type of contraband or you know,
how you're engaging with a victim, or how you're chasing
after a perpetrator. Tactics are so instrumental in fighting crime,

(38:44):
and that's why the police academies and the intact training
are very very important for us to capitalize and make
sure the men and women of the Greateschoote Department of
the world are doing that they do to make sure
they go home at the end of the day.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
And I'm sure you remember it, and I'm sure else
a lot of lockers of current MOS still have it
on their lockers, that sticker that says, proper tactics save lives.
And it's true. The slightest mistake or on the flip
side of that coin, the slightest thing that you got right,
the slightest detail that was done well in the moment,
can be the difference between going home and going to
the grave or going to the hospital. So it's important,

(39:24):
especially where split second encounters like that happen. You're chasing
after him, he's got the gun, you know. Tactics like
that are key to making sure, thankfully, as you said,
did Jam, everybody goes home at the end of the day,
you know. And I'm sure that was at the forefront
of your mind even before you got promoted, and it
stayed at the forefront of your mind over the course
of your career. So that brings us into two thousand
and five another promotion, this time to lieutenant. Same question

(39:45):
as before. Another rank. Now you're a little bit more
settled into the roles of boss. He had five years
to really hone that in the seventh three, especially in
the place like anti crime. As lieutenant, now a bit
of an easier transition, I imagine, are still some things
to learn.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
So always always things to learn. I will say this,
the transition out of all of the ranks, sergeant to
lieutenant might have been the easiest. It wasn't easy, but
the easiest. Going from cop to sergeant, it is extremely
difficult lieutenant. The captain is is really anvil on your

(40:24):
shoulders because of the level of responsibility. But the sergeant
to lieutenant was probably one of the easier rink transitions
that I went through. I you know, just another I'm
going to once again I apologize. Another funny story. I
initially got notified when I got promoted that I was

(40:44):
going to the nine to four, and I was so
unhappy that I was going to the nine corporate and
not a not to the nine four. You know, listen,
there's some great cops in the nine four. I just
wanted to go somewhere where there was a lot of
violence and people that were committing criminal acts. And I

(41:08):
made another phone call to the lieutenant over at Brooken
North Good I say, a good friend, but the person
that I knew, and he switched me from the nine
to four to the seventy nine and I went there
to go work with Phil Banks. I also worked with
a bunch of really great lieutenants, Michael Petrie, Tony Raguanella,

(41:32):
p Fiorello, p Fiorello. People don't know. Maybe one of
the best gun guys on the job, Kevin Williams. He
just retired as the borough commander for Queen South and
Phil Banks, and listen, Phil Banks used to put his
foot in our behind every single day. But with that

(41:53):
talk about a guy who molded his supervisors to do
things correctly. So he he he ruled with will say
an iron fist, but he also made every single one
of us and somebody could tell you something different, I
call bs. We all walked away being better supervisors under

(42:16):
his leadership.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
I am glad you mentioned Tony Raganella. He's a friend
of mine. He's been on the show before. Tony ended
up retiring ast an inspector. He's a good guy. He's
very he's real police, as they say, So I didn't
know you guys cross paths, So that's nice to hear.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Yeah, yeah, Me and Tony still stay in contact. You know,
he's doing a lot of good things, especially with his
experience and the sort of control h And you know,
I'm still friends with all these guys. I'm so friends
with mine. I'm still friends with Kevin, Tony, Pete, every everybody,
and and even even now Chief Banks, I'm still acquaints

(42:53):
with him as well. So we had a tight knit
crew in a very very difficult, difficult uh presint In
the seven nine another small prest but a lot of
violence that occurs there, but we did some great work
making sure the cops protected themselves and went out there

(43:13):
and got bad people up the streets.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
It's such a comparing contrast, and that's why I was
laughing earlier when you mentioned the ninety four, because take
it the seven to three right in tense command. The
seven nine, same thing the seven to five. You though
you weren't there. I mean, what was the motto in
the seven to five? You give us twenty two minutes,
will give you a homicide.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
It's one of the.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
More violent precincts in the city for a long long time.
Even in good crime years for the city, it still
led the top categories for violent crimes. And then you
go to Green Point the ninety four, which is it
might as well be the other side of the world.
I mean not to say things don't happen over there,
but compared to the commands that you were at before,
that had to be quite the change, or at least,
you know, at least the reputation is quite the change.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, And I got to be very careful here because
the cops in ninety four. Yeah, really they have a
difficult job as well. Uh that that community over there
is turned over, a new leaf of different people moving in,
but they still have that that element of violence or

(44:14):
crimes that I should say this property crimes, burgaries, loss
in these that still plague that that area. So their
work should not be overshadowed. But I just was a
big buff into going to places where there were gang members,
shooting incidents, people carrying guns and things.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Of that nature, of course. And that's again no knock
to anybody passed in President out of the nine for
Mike Sileo was previously on the show. He ended up
in aviation. Out of the nine four he had his
first eleven years of his career. I believe in the
in the ninth forth. So shout out to all the
great men and women working in that precinct. So that
brings us into you weren't a lieutenant very long. It
was only about about two years or so before you

(44:57):
got the next promotion. That's capped. He talked about that earlier,
and I thought that was an interesting characterization. We can
expand on that here. A couple of different roles as
a captain, primarily in the two years you had that,
but the four to seven talk about a busy command again.
Now it's the Bronx. You'd spend the majority of your
career in Brooklyn at this point. Now you're going into
a role, of course, as a captain in a borough

(45:19):
like the Bronx. Was it I mean, both boroughs are
very busy, Both boroughs have that gritty reputation. Was it
a seamless transition or was it a bit of a
culture shock to see how they do things in Brooklyn,
or at least how you did things versus how things
are done in the Bronx. See, even though it's the
same police department. Every borough is not the same in
terms of how it's operated.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Yeah, I'm going to break that down for you in
a second. I also want to I don't want to
leave out I actually left the seven nine and I
became the FIO coordinator for Brooklyn and Staten Island and
Brooklyn North, Brooklyn South and Staten Island. And you know,

(45:57):
I had some FiOS that I can't come up with
the right words of how incredible they were knocking down doors,
doing search warrants, reverse buys with cis, getting information or
intel that really helped provide information to a lot of

(46:20):
different units and a different prestincts. So I did that
for a year or so. Then I went out to
Manhattan North and Manhattan South as the FIO coordinator. And
the reason why I don't want to skip over that
that time as an FIO coordinator, once again, I'm learning
from FiOS and FIO assistants on some of the great
work and research and things that they did in order

(46:45):
to help me out during my executive time frame in
law enforcement. So you're going to hear me throughout this
interview acknowledge the people that I worked with, because all
these people will be the FiOS in Brooklyn and Manhattan,
to the individuals that I worked with in crime in

(47:08):
the seven three, to the cops in the seven nine,
to you know, my time in narcotics. It molded me.
And listen, it's it's great to learn from the top,
but it's even better to learn from the people that
are doing the work every single day. And that was
one of my passions, is to be a sponge. But
let's let's go back to me going to be a

(47:32):
captain in the Bronx. So I get promoted and I
happened to have a go take a picture with jos Zito,
who I think is the goat of the NYBD. And
one of his drivers was a guy by name of
Eddie Velasquez who was a undercover with me in Brooklyn,
North White. Shame for me not mentioning him earlier, but

(47:55):
he was really he was like a big case bye guy.
So he was like so much above us.

Speaker 5 (48:01):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
He was really a rock suff for some of the
great work he did with his cases and some of
the problematic drug gangs in East New York. But I
you know, they asked me where I wanted to go,
and I, like you said, I did a lot of
time in Brooklyn. Uh you know what, I you know,
did some time in Queens. I said, I want to

(48:24):
try a different borough where I know there's going to
be something similar to my Brooklyn law timeframe. And I told,
I told, I told the chief. I said, Chief goes Rodney.
You know you know, Eddie's my guy. Do you where
do you want to go? Said was listening. I want
to go to the Bronx. He goes, where do you live?
I live in Long Island. He goes, he goes, what

(48:45):
the hell's wrong with you? I said, listen, I want
to I just want to try something different. And at
that time frame, we didn't have a take on car.
We didn't have an easy pass, so it was, you know,
going to be a little bit of a burden on
me financially in so many other ways. By the way,
because I was doing forty five hours as the FI
coordinated with it take on car. Now I lose a car,

(49:06):
not doing any overtime, I have to pay for toll.
But the one thing I will say is going to
the Bronx. Really another's another layer that has sculpted my
law enforcement career because the Bronx is the Bronx like
the the the action never stops. And you know, being

(49:29):
the opportunity to be in the four to seven to
four seven is very similar to the six seven in
East flat Bush saying community a lot of violence. You know,
you got eating wall projects, you got white plains road.
I worked with some pretty great commanding officers and Timmy
Hardeman and Paul Deetremont, some incredible, incredible police officers that

(49:51):
you know, I'm so proud of them that moved up
in the rank and now are either executives somewhere or
commanding officers. Uh So, the force some of them was
a really great experience, and me trekking it out there
every single day showed me a different side of New
York City that I was able to see how to

(50:13):
police and engage. And being the duty captain all the time,
and you know, having the run of the borough and
seeing a lot of great police work. It was a
great you know, two years as the X owner four seven.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
And it paved a way for what would come, of
course in two thousand and nine, and these five years
of your career from two thousand and nine twenty fourteen
saw you in the inspector's role both as a di
I then later on as a full out inspector. And
now you're going for the Bronx to Manhattan two eight
and the three to two, and the three two is
notable in that, and we'll talk about the two way.
I'm not going to gloss over that the three two

(50:49):
has the most line of duty deaths. I believe in
many New York City Police precinct and of course recently
a few years ago Rivera and Mora. I believe there's
thirteen plaques on that wall when you walk in, So
it's so to think about, and it's a reminder of
the mortal perils that come with the job. But going
back to the two eight, there was of course Brooklyn policing.
There's Bronx policing, and that was a great experience for you.

(51:10):
Now there's Manhattan, So going in there as an executive
officer at this time, tell me about what you most
enjoyed about, not necessarily working in the hustle and bust
of a midtown or people think of the Times Square Command,
but you know, a moving, busy, diverse neighborhood like Harlem.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Let me tell you something. The one word politics, The politics.
The politics in Harlem was a monster. And this is
one of those precincts two eight three two where you
had to have that engagement with the community. If not,

(51:50):
they would eat you up alive. You know. There have
been multiple multiple times where I was at community meetings
and people had their forks and their knives and hand
ready to to chop me up, and I was able
to engage him and build a level of trust based
upon our engagement. Funny, I talk about stories when I

(52:13):
was actually in the three two. When I was in
a three to two, there was an incident where five
people were shot. There was a gang called the good
Fellas and they were shooting at a crew over in
Satan St. Nicholas project called to Get Money Boys, and
my predecessor over there, Kevin Catalina, he did a real
good job of doing a lot of gang takedowns him

(52:36):
working with Rich Zacharice, which his name will come up
later on with my partnership with him in Suffolk County.
But these gangs just continue to rise its ugly head.
And there was one gang shot this other gang and
through our FIO, we found out that they were going

(52:56):
to come back and shoot up one to ninth Street,
and they didn't care who was out there. And it
was a very very scary time as a CEO knowing
that the retaliation was coming because five gang members were shot.
Actually five people were shot, a couple of them with
gang members, a couple of them were just innocent people

(53:16):
on the basketball court, and the gang from Saint Nick
we're coming back with revenge. And this was what I
call a credible threat. And you know, listen, you could
put posts over there, you could have anti crime cops
come by. You know, these guys would do what they

(53:38):
had to do to shoot, and you could have thirty
forty cops in that vicinity between say seventh down to
Fifth Avenue were one to nine, it wouldn't matter. They
would shoot with the cops were out there. It was
just it was what it was. And I came up
with a strategy and I talked about politics, and I'm
gonna explain this in a second, where I actually shut

(54:00):
down the street. This is something that they did in
Watching the Heights one time, where the Tiberias shut down
the streets and said nobody's allowed to come down this
block unless you're living there or whoever you're going to
visit comes and get you and brings you in and
you have to show your idea. And the first couple
of days it was fine. Then another day went by,

(54:24):
my phone started ringing, Harrison, what are you doing with
this street closed? These are politicians calling me? And then
another day goes by and more politicians are calling me,
and the next thing you know, it turned into a
monster level of frustration from the politicians that were getting
it from the residence on one two ninth Street, like

(54:46):
what is this guy Harrison doing and who do you
think he is to cut to shut down the street.
So the politicians demanded that we have a meeting there
were use me the outlets there, and let me tell you,
some of these politicians, who I thought were my friends,

(55:07):
called me every name under the sun. During this meeting.
I was looking at people like I thought we were friends,
and they were very, very frustrated at me because of
the flat that they were getting from their constituents. So
it was my turn to talk and I was able

(55:27):
to explain to them something that they did not know,
and I told them about you know, the gang from
Saint Nicholas is going to be coming back and they're
saying they're going to shoot up everybody. Yeah, I could
have told you, but this is something that I wanted
to make sure we were able to investigate, you know,
without causing a lot of hysteria, and everybody in the

(55:49):
room and quiet when I when I broke it down
that I'm doing this for you, I'm protecting your block.
And even if I use somewhat of a an orthodox
way of doing it, the most important thing is I
need for everybody to go home at the end of
the day, and the room was dead silent, and people

(56:11):
looked at me like I get it. I got it,
and I am very very happy to say with the strategy,
with the teamwork, with the supervisors involved with the cops
of ball we didn't have a shooting. We were able
to make an arrest with the great work from the
men and women from the three two squad, and we

(56:31):
were able to stop any shooting incidents from happening in
that area after that shooting incident. So compliments go to
the supervisory team that brought into this kind of quirky

(56:51):
way of policing that I wanted to bring. But at
the end of the day, my goal was to make
sure that nobody gutshot during that time frame, and we've
got the job done.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
A prevention is the name of the game because in
that situation, to your point, it's damned if you do,
damned if you don't. And ultimately explaining it was the key.
What would you rather have? To put it bluntly, would
you rather have these frustrations temporarily with the street closure
or would you rather have mass bloodshed where you could
boost your life, where you can lose someone close to you.
I think the answer is quite clear. The answer is
quite clear. So and it worked out well, and as

(57:25):
you said, and arrest was made again. Every rank is
an education, Every chapter in your career is in education.
Now you become a chief. And twenty fourteen to fifteen
is an interesting time because there's IAB Staten Island, and
I want to I'll touch on Staten Island in a second,
but people IAB is interesting because I know people look
at IB and they kind of sco off at it
to a degree, and that debate is going to go

(57:45):
on to the end of time. But you know, there
is a need for IAB, and it isn't until you
work in a place like IB where you get a
good understanding some of the department's best leaders have worked there.
I think of Pat kellerher who I keep in touch
with on a semi regular basis. He spent a bulk
of his career there, for example, and you spent that
not a long time. It was about eight months or so,
less than a calendar year. But tell me about that experience.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
So I'm gonna start you off from how I got
to I AV So let's let me. Let me share
this this story with you. I was sitting down with
an executive in leadership and he there wasna There was
a mass amount of changes that were coming down the pipe.
A lot of different executives were being moved, and this

(58:31):
executive asked me, you know, where did I want to go?
And for anybody that's listening, to make sure you pay
attention to all the stories I'm want to share with you,
this is when you got to listen to the most.
So he asked me where did I want to go?
And I said, listen, boss, I'll go wherever you need me.
I'm a team player, you know. Now, talk about somebody

(58:56):
that has experience in the detective bureau h I was
in the seventy to one squad. I was in the
seven to three detective Squad as a sergeant. I was
in narcotics as undercovering, as investigator. I was in Intel
as a as a FIO coordinator. You know, I'm thinking
to myself, they're going to put me in a place
where I can continue to oversee and combat crime preaching

(59:21):
commander and two commands to having any commands. Uh. And
then I got the phone call that I was going
to I a b and not not a knock not
a knock on IB and it is no doubt about it.
And I'm gonna talk about in a second necessary evil.
I just don't think that I was that person that
should that should be going there based upon my my

(59:44):
career so far. So I went home. I took my
frustration and started cursing my wife, talking about I was
going to retire. I said, I'm not going to allow
them to just dump me over here after all the
you know things that I've done within this apartment. I

(01:00:04):
was very very frustrated. My phone was blown up from
multiple people regarding you know, why are you going to
IB this any other? And I couldn't understand it either. Uh.
And I received the phone call from from a from
a friend who told me that listen, you know, don't

(01:00:27):
be so discouraged. You're going into a position where it's
a it's a chief position, and you're going to get promoted.
And I shouldn't sit here and say getting promoted it
would kind of make me stay or go. But I said, well,
I'll give it a chance, I'll see how long it's
going to take, and then I'll go from there. Sure enough,

(01:00:50):
within a couple of months, I was promoted to deputy
chief in IVY. So that's that's the first story about
how how I got to I got to IVY. The
second part of the story is I had a couple
of really interesting units which were Group one, which the

(01:01:11):
investigate people in ib or executives, Group twenty five that
works with the with the with with defense, and my
biggest thing during my time frame there was what are
we doing to train executives from getting jammed up? And

(01:01:33):
I put a team together Stephanie Brinkley, Lori Pollock, and
we would do presentations in different patrol boroughs and talk
about what are the common denominate is why executives are
getting Janna be it, how they use the department car

(01:01:54):
be it, you know, some type of sexual harassment, and
I made sure I hit every single burrow, going through
the different complaints that they were getting and making sure
I provided these executives on listen, these are the things
you have to do to make sure you don't get
yoursel jammed up. And that to me was extremely extremely

(01:02:18):
rewarding being able to take my time frame and my
experience and be able to see the complaints that were
coming in to make sure I was protecting the executives
and I did. We had a whole presentation and Lori
and Stephanie were both eloquent speakers, and you know, they
were there for some time frame and we really did

(01:02:39):
some good work engaging the patrol executives on how to
make sure they don't find themselves being in my office
being gailed. And you know it was it was a
good eight or nine months whatever my my time frame
was there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Thank you for going into it, because again, I know
the reputation is a controversial one, but as you said,
it isn't necessary evil you don't want to have to
use it, but unfortunately, sometimes it is a unit that
is required to be utilized depending on what the circumstances
are of a given case or investigation, helps keep the
department clean, helps enforce the professionalism and integrity any department

(01:03:18):
needs to be successful, and that brings us over to
Staten Island. You'd been in Staten Island before, you talked
about that earlier, so it was an unfamiliar territory. But
at this point in time, from twenty fourteen to about
twenty sixteen up until you became an assistant chief, you
move in between Staten Island and also Brooklyn North, first
the Patrol Borough and then later on a detective Bureau.
But just to start in Staten Island, it has reputation,

(01:03:40):
at least amongst other boroughs. Sometimes I feel like it
gets overlooked. People look at Staten Island so ah, nothing
happens over there. You've probably heard that they refer to
as the Richmond County Sheriff's Office. But I've had a
lot of Staten Island guys on the show. It's not true.
It's busy out there. It may not have the glitz
and glamor of Manhattan or the reputation of the Bronx
and Brooklyn, but it's active and you got to be
there again briefly in the Patrol Borough for a little while,

(01:04:03):
tell me about that experience and getting to work with
the great cops out there, who I personally feel are
oftentimes very unsung.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
So you know, let me take you back to that timeframe,
which was the reason why I was transferred out there,
was after the Eric Gardner incident. Yes, yes, and you know,
Frank Vego was out there, and Frank was the EXO
for Ed Delatory, and I think Frank got promoted or

(01:04:32):
something like that, made something with something that NTL forgot,
but he got moved to a different assignment. So they
wanted somebody that had that skill set of engagement with
people of color, mainly people in north Shore because they
were rioting and protesting and a host of other things.

(01:04:52):
And you know, Ed Delatory really did a I thought,
just sitting sitting next to him a great job, you know,
engaging with the different electeds out there, religious leaders, and
I just really wrote his coattail and saw how he

(01:05:14):
was able to work on bringing the temperature down and
when he wasn't around then I really kind of took
the helm of making sure we're doing types of different
types of engagement in so many of the north Shore
communities and talked about their frustrations and allowed them to

(01:05:37):
talk about, you know, their unhappiness with some of the
things that he might have seen, not just with the
Eric Gardner, but with other situations from cops mainly in
the One Too and the cops in the One Too
by the way, which is a heavy hitting house by

(01:05:57):
the way, it's a big house. You have a lot
of violent areas over there, a lot of great police
work being done, but at this time frame they were
handcuffed and it was hard to do any type of
police work knowing that everything that they did had to
be with a level of sensitivity and uh, you know,

(01:06:21):
we go to a job and to be a domestic
and a situation where arrest may be automatically. These cops
were uh guilty as charged by the people, uh in
the in the community. Meanwhile they're they're rescuing and holding
somebody accountable for some type of incident that they committed.

(01:06:42):
But uh uh, the level of resiliency by the one
two oh cops was really incredible through such a difficult,
difficult time. That's the first thing I want to tell
about that now. The second thing is justin Di Miko
and Danny Pantaleo. Yeah, I had an opportunity to engage

(01:07:04):
with them because they were temporarily assigned. Uh, actually it
was long term assigned to the burrough And uh, they
really got a bum rap. I really felt their their pain,
you know. Uh, you know it's it's it's being portrayed

(01:07:27):
that they walked out the car the day saying that
they were going to kill Eric Gardner. And there's a
lot more behind the curtain what happened that day. I
don't want to really necessarily get into it in this
this interview, but you know, Danny Pantaleo was an anti
crime cop, like he was the guy going after guns,
this and the other. Justin Diamiko was the conditions cop,

(01:07:51):
and he asked Danny to come take a ride with
him because they were getting pressure on this individual that
was locked up numerous times over there for minor violations.
And uh, this wasn't their first engagement for Justin Dimiko.

Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
They tried to just ask be literally trying to chew
them away, and he resisted, and one thing led to another,
and you know, it turned into an absolute tragedy. I
also met when when uh Carr, who was Gardener's mother.
She was a fantastic woman. Uh, and she went to
make sure that our police apartment, you know, had things

(01:08:32):
in place to make sure this doesn't this this type
of incident doesn't happen again. So you know, there's just
two sides to the story.

Speaker 5 (01:08:40):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
You know, the officers Dimico and Pantaleo should not be
demonized for what happened that day. But yet at the
same time, there is a woman that lost her son,
and we also have to be understanding to her as well,
So learning experience, trying to bring the temperature down, working

(01:09:10):
with Ed and a host of other community folks out there.
I want to believe we got stan Allen into a
better place post my time frame there with it. There
was a lot of frustration and we really strengthen those
relationships after my time friends stand.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
Of course, and all I'll say on that, as we said,
we won't get into it in this particular interview. It's
a different story for a different days. In any of
these situations, nine times out of ten, it's important to
remember and a lot of people missed this. There's nuance involved.
You kind of alluded to it, and there's more to
the story. There's more context to be covered than often
is covered. And that's a crystal clear example. Asked that,

(01:09:53):
and thank you for going into that. I know that's
not necessarily an easy thing to discuss, and that came
up spontaneously. We didn't talk about that beforehand, but nevertheless,
I appreciate you kind of giving the backstory as much
as you could on that. I'm moving ahead a little
bit because I still we still have to get to
your time as Suffol Commissioner, and I don't want to
keep you too long, and especially with the Gilgo.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
Beach message, we got a long way to go.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
Yeah, yeah, well we'll speed it ahead a little bit.
Of course, you were a deputy chief around this time.
You went back to Brooklyn for a little while working
with the Patrol Borough worked in the Detective Bureau, and
that paved the way, not to gloss over that time
to what would come later on as Chief Control. Now,
a lot of people who've gone on to further ranks
in the NYPD. I think of Chief Animal, for example,
he was Chief Patrol shortly before he became Chief of Department.

(01:10:36):
And we're not talking patrol for just one burrow city wise,
and listen, even some of the greatest cops that have
achieved a lot in different units within the NYPD. Everybody
starts at patrol. It's the most important function. And those
the guys that are the real grunts, and I say
that lovingly in the department because they never know what
they're walking into, but they walk into it anyway, and

(01:10:57):
it's tremendous work that they do. So even though it
was only a year, tell me about getting to that role,
overseeing what patrol was at that time and the personal
changes you wanted to make to make the job for
the guys in gals on the street an easier one.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
So actually it was two years as a chief of patrol,
and that was during the timeframe of neighborhood policing where
we created naval policing. We created naval coordination officers, steady sectors,
build a block, meetings, social media posts. I mean, you
have to take a look at twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen.

(01:11:32):
We had crime down in record lows and the reason
why we got crime down in record lows is because
we were working with the communities that we were assigned to,
and those relationships really get people to come forward. If
you have a bad relationship with your community, they're not
going to come forward. They're not going to tell you

(01:11:53):
about incidents. They're not gonna call nine to one. They're
going to be terrified or intimidated by the local police
and cops. This here gave people a cop that they
knew on a regular basis, and if they saw something
or had an idea on how something should be fixed,
they can provide that information. And that's what we have

(01:12:15):
to do in law law enforcement, Like we can't do
it by ourselves, Like we can't be Hey, we're the
cops and everybody else's the robbers. That has to be
a level of partnership in community policing. Excuse me. Neighborhood
policing really flipped over our relationships with the multiple communities
in New York City, and you know, it's never easy

(01:12:39):
to implement a new strategy and it met with a
lot of resistance under be honest with you, when I
was in brook the North as the chief Detectives, I
was like, what is this neighborhood police and nonsense like
this is this is bs like whatever the case may be.
And I've always been somebody that has dived into community
work with the community made me become a plice officer,

(01:13:01):
But I kind of was skeptical when I first heard
it as well, once I got into the chair, when
I was the exo chier patrol on the Terrence Mont
hand and then became a chief patrol, I saw a
lot of magic happening. I saw a lot of people
coming forward. I saw a lot of people working with us,
and we were providing information. Listen, we became heroes again.

(01:13:22):
You know, there was one point where people had a
disdain towards law enforcement. Neighborhood policing allowed us to be
on the top list of heroes in New York City,
and it really really was a great opportunity to cheap
patrol implementing neighborhood policing, seeing the great work with NCOs,

(01:13:42):
how to stay sectors were working and using that off
radio time and trying to get to know people, and
you know, unfortunately in a lot of different police departments
there's always like that. We're told that community police officer,
that community face cop. And the philosophy here was it
just can't be certain cops that are doing that engagement.

(01:14:07):
Everybody has to have that engagement. And when we have
neighborhood Coordination officers, we have city sectors and everybody's like, yo, listen.
If you can just provide some type of engagement, be
it off radio, build a block, meetings, and a host
of other things, people will work with us and we
could put a lot of people behind bars with that cooperation.

Speaker 1 (01:14:29):
And it's so true, and you did have it from
January twenty eighteen, I believed to December twenty nineteenth, So
just as you said in that to your time frame,
it's so true to what you said too, because it's
important for people in the community, no matter where that
community is New York City. I'm in New Haven, Connecticut.
It's the same thing for people to see their public
servants in a non emergency context. If someone's always showing

(01:14:51):
up for what is essentially the worst moment of the
day or in some cases, the worst moment of someone's life,
even if they're not the one that perpetrated the moment,
you don't want to see them because they usually associated with, oh,
something bad is happening. But if you could see them
in a relaxed setting like a basketball game or a
community meeting, or just to sit down at a picnic,
whatever the case may be, it builds that trust and
it humanizes the public servant in question. It's so important

(01:15:14):
to happen. Absolutely, Yeah, talk of Rodney Harrison here on
the Mike di nuavel podcast, former NYPD Chief of Department
and also former Suffolk County Police Commissioner, and that brings us,
of course, moving ahead the Chief of Detectives. You had
that for about two years and change as well, and
again another prestigious moment, another prestigious rank. And I'd have
to imagine that was full circle for you. You were

(01:15:36):
a detective for a while in the mid nineties heading
into two thousand before you made sergeant. Now you bat
you'd been involved in the bureau as a higher up,
but now you're the Chief of Detectives. So when that
promotion came along, tell me about your emotions and realizing
you were going to spearhead that bureau, which I think
is the greatest Bureau of detectives in the world. And
that's the moniker. And of course, again much like I

(01:15:56):
asked you previously with Chief Patrol, changes you wanted to
implement and what you ultimately were able to implement.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Yeah, so I was at a little bit of a
crossroad at that time frame. I was finishing up my
time frame as a chief patrol. There was a big
change in the leadership with Jimmy O'Neill stepping down and
they they being built of Blasio choosing to make Jeremy

(01:16:25):
Shay the Chief of Detectives. But also at that same time,
I was asked to go through the process of being
police commissioner in Philadelphia, and you know, I went to
the first interview. The interview went quite well. The mayor
out there was an absolute gentleman, his staff was very nice.

(01:16:47):
And then I had another interview with a group of
community leaders and they had their levels of concern about,
you know, community trusts with the Philadelphia Police Apartment, and
I kind of chopped it up regarding neighborhood policing, this
is what we're doing NYPD and the success we've seen
this any other And I was on my way back
for a second view, not staying here saying I would

(01:17:08):
have gotten it, but I was on my way for
a second interview, and there came a point where they
were going to choose somebody and I'll actually share his name,
Falstero Charter, who I think the world of to be
the next Chief of Detectives. Now, Foster was my XO

(01:17:29):
as the chief Patrol. He also rolled out neighborhood policing
with me. He did a lot of engagement, also a
priest's commander in the three three and the four to three.
Good Street Cop. Really intelligent guides me as a rock star.
The only little hiccup there was Folsom never worked in

(01:17:50):
the detective bureau, and if anybody knows anything about the
detective bureau, if you'd never really been in those shoes,
you know there could be some challenges. So I actually
shared with Chief Monahan, who was the chief of department
at the time, you know, why don't you make falsehood
chief of patrol and I could become the chief of

(01:18:11):
detectives because of my detective experiences, to an the other.
So I got a knock on the door. Jeremy Jay
came in and said, well, listen, I don't know which
positions more prominent, being Chief of Detectives or chief patrol,
but which one would you be interested in? Here I
go again with the same response, which was Willison, whatever

(01:18:31):
whatever's best for the team, And they later shared that
they would like for me to be the chief of Detectives,
and there was a great opportunity and really really helped
me in so many different ways, because when you're in

(01:18:52):
that seat, all you're doing every single day is just
seeing great investigative police work. I mean, I wish I
could regurgitate some of the investigations that I've seen, but
every day I'm just seeing the greatest attectives in the world,
solving cases using technology, uh whatever resources they can get

(01:19:15):
to get problem calls on somebody and and be able
to bring him into bring him into custody. So really
great experience. Unfortunately, during that time frame, the sky fell
and COVID hit the city, and then right after that,
or not right after, but then we had the the
funded police movement where there were rights and protests throughout

(01:19:39):
the city. It was an absolute so we were shorthanded
in in a lot of our units because of COVID,
and you know, rightfully so, because you know, the guys
got sick and they had to you know, they didn't
want to take things home to their family, so we
had to shut down squads and tell people not to
go out this and the other. And then we had
the fun the police movement and the city blew up

(01:20:02):
with violence. I mean everybody was wearing masks and committing
acts of violence and it was extremely, extremely difficult, difficult time.
But once again, NYPDIA detective's greatest tensives in the world
still found a way to do deep dive investigations. It
might have been took things a little bit longer, but
still we're able to close out a lot of different

(01:20:23):
shooting incidents, a lot of different murder cases, and a
lot of other acts of violence that were germaining towards their.

Speaker 1 (01:20:34):
Squads even without the movement. Let's just focus on the
pandemic for a second. I mean, this was a situation
that nobody in your shoes had ever faced before and
hopefully nobody in your shoes ever has to face again.
Circumstances that are well beyond your control. You're talking about
working with limited resources and talk about putting your thinking
cap on when things started to really snowball out of

(01:20:55):
control and these measures are being put in place and
we still don't know what this is. How you get
it how contagious it is. Take me through that time
frame in the early stages of just trying to keep
yourself safe those around you safe, but also trying to
work with what you have, and then later on, like
eventual guys getting sick what you no longer had.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
Yeah, it was a it was a juggling act. And
one of the difficult things is we lost a lot
of we lost a lot of members of service, but
we lost I believe it was six people to in
the Detective Bureau to UH to COVID, And yeah, my
priority were the investigators and making sure that their families

(01:21:37):
don't get affected. And you know, listen, as much as
you know we have to do a job, we have
to do, uh, there's there's a balancing act here, and
make sure that the cops had the appropriate ppe within
their squads to still go out and talk to people.
And if I had to shut down a squad and
have another squad cover, then then so be it. But

(01:22:01):
my my priority was the lives of the men and
men and women of the Detective Bureau. And you know, uh,
you know, we had some people that got sick that
it really uh broke our hearts and uh once once
they passed, and we had to kind of figure out
how do we out of those officers. But ye, at

(01:22:25):
the same time, try to continue to grind and uh
and investigate some of these horrific crimes that were happening.
In New York City during that time frame. So, uh balance,
I had some great people around me, between mcgell and Glaciers,
Joe Kenny, Mike Baldasano, Jerry O'Sullivan, I had. I had

(01:22:49):
some really really good guys that uh stepped up, stepp
up to the plate, helped out with making sure we
were moving people around, making sure that we gave people
time off when they needed it, made sure we had
to prioritize. All right, listen, we don't need to do
vice this week, but we'll just do narcotics or maybe
we'll put some teams together just because we have to

(01:23:11):
still do some police work. I mean, the everyday briefings
that we had to go through and to make sure
we were still getting the job done was extremely, extremely difficult.
I can't put in words, but thank god I had
a rock star team around me that really John Russo,
I can't came with me from again, John Russo. John

(01:23:32):
russ is like the Nucleus and the Detective Bureau. I
really have some good guys that helped us get through
that difficult time. And then I allow you to ask
about the fund of the police movement, which was another mess.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
Well, I wasn't going to get into that. We'll leave
that for another day as well. I was going to
segue at the chief of department. That one's been covered
in depth and we're on the other side of it now.
But a couple of people in the chat I wanted
to highlight their saying hello to you. The first one
is the Chief, Rob blue Cash. He's been on the
show before. He d Chief. I had him featured on
here for my emergency Service. You would have many series. He says, Hey, Robbie,
great to see you. Always the true gentleman. He did

(01:24:05):
great and K. P. Johnson also says, so it was
a salute to PC Harrison is second suff a County
Police Department, second precincton Master. We miss you, Roger.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
So those two gentlemen are are setting their regards to
you this evening people. Yeah, yeah, like Chief blue Cash,
I know very well and as you said, very very
good man.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
Uh. I know Bobby very well. We were re engineering
together and uh I had the almost respect for for
for Rob, and uh i'd almost expect for Rob, and
I want to believe I was able to help him
further his career in the n y p D. Because
he was such a talented guy and uh really really

(01:24:47):
down in earth person and a good family man as well.
Uh really really great to see him shouting. Give me
a shout out.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
Yeah no, I that was one of my easier interviews
because I just asked one question. He took it over
the rest of the I just I spit my U.
I'm like, all right, And that was one of my
get to see a chief in the chat and get
to see you as well, Ken Johnson, so touched before
we get the suffolk. Of course, your last position, arguably
in the NYPD was the most prominent one here, the

(01:25:15):
highest ranking uniformed officer. And it's talk about a full
circle moment. Chief from someone that originally had negative interactions
with the police department, originally did not want to pursue
a path in law enforcement, someone who's father recommended the
cadet program. Fast forward thirty years later, and now you're
the highest ranking uniformed officer in the New York City
Police Department. You know, talk about a pinchbe moment. Again.

(01:25:37):
You think about the people who came before you. Joe
Esposito held that position. Joe Dunn, another highly regarded leader,
held that position. Lou Animoe, who I mentioned earlier, same thing,
and now you're holding the same rank as them. Talk
about again, how surreal was that for you and how emotion.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
I want to use the words surreal because it was
such a grind and every single day, you know, it
wasn't one of those positions where you could sit back
and look around and appreciate you being in that chair
every day I came in. It was something where we

(01:26:16):
had to figure out what we were going to do
to protect the city, and you know, everything from running
contact with my co pilot and Michael Petrie, you know,
to you know, some of the other people in the
leadership that were on that days during constat. I want
to believe we were able to get New York City

(01:26:38):
back on its feet because of the work that we
did regarding overseeing the department, coming up with different ideas
and strategies, different initiatives, you know, making sure we were
protecting the police officers, but yet the same time acknowledging
the great police work. You know. One of the things
that I'm very proud of is that I brought back

(01:27:00):
the comp Set Award, which Joe Esposito used to do.
That I learned from him, and I think it's very,
very important that the cops in law enforcement don't get
the patent in the back of that they deserve we
all know, but not going to curse, but they don't
get paid enough, let alone get their recognition that they deserve.
And I want to believe during my time frame the

(01:27:21):
chief of Department, I took a time frame of coming
up with Cop of the Week, we were doing the
Compset award that I mentioned earlier, and just making sure
that the cops realized that we appreciate them, and that
was one of my number one goals because it's such
a difficult time frame. They went through with COVID, did

(01:27:45):
defund the police movement and a host of other things
that really had people scratching head. You know, why am
I doing this job? So it was a great, great time,
but wasn't something where I was sitting here, uh you know,
kind of looking around and saying, hey, this is great
to be here. It was an absolute, absolute rhyme. There's

(01:28:07):
multiple times in the middle of the night I had
to be be called out of my house to do
a press conference for one of our police officers saving
somebody's lives, stopping somebody that had a weapon or something
like that, and then I had to talk about the
great police work. I mean, it was just NonStop. But

(01:28:28):
if it wasn't for h my partnership with the executive
staff Jeremy Chay, who was really uh quarterback in the team,
and give me an opportunity to achieve a department, I'm
not sure if we would have we would have covered
as a city. So kudos to the the men and

(01:28:51):
women for you know, getting through such a difficult time,
and then compliments to the leadership under Germany Chay to
make sure we continue to fight crime and hold people accountable.

Speaker 1 (01:29:08):
Of course, it wasn't easy to do back then coming
out of COVID, but it was done. It was done,
and a lot of credit to him and you for that.
So you retire in twenty twenty one, he closed lit
on a great run in the NYPD. But you're not
done yet at this time. You venture on over to
Suffolk County and we'll get into Gilgo Beach momentarily. But
just to kind of bring it back to when you

(01:29:29):
were told, or at least the process of when you
first told, hey, there's no opening in Suffolk County, would
you be interested. I don't know if that's how it went.
Just tell me about how that came to be to
ultimately landing the job.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
Yeah, so just you know, we'll talk about the writing
on the wall. Listen. At the end of the day,
the incoming mayor, I knew he was going to, you know,
make some changes. And my youngest daughter, for you know,
people who may not know this, was playing basketballt Wake

(01:30:00):
Forest University, which is the ACC which is argably one
of the toughest basketball conferences in the country. And she
was the starting point guard for Wake Forest. This was actually,
you know, we could talk about my lawful scrip, my
my greatest accomplishment in my eyes was having a daughter
play in the highest level of sports and seeing her

(01:30:23):
play there's no there's no better feeling. And so it
was kind of like perfect timing. I knew that I
was going to probably be asked to leave no hard feelings, uh,
And I moved down to North Carolina and I'm sorry,
I was headed down to North Carolina, me and my
wife looking for apartments to get ready to watch my

(01:30:43):
daughter's last three years of college basketball, with the aspirations
of possible going to the w n B a and
I received a phone call from a deputy county executive.
Uh they were doing a nationwide search the time regarding
their police commissioner, and he asked me if I would

(01:31:06):
be interested. I think somebody kind of put in his
head that you know, Harrison's leaving, and they reached out
to me, and I spoke to the wife and she said, well, listen,
just go through the motion and see what they say,
see if it's something that you may be interested in.
I really didn't necessarily necessarily want to do it because

(01:31:27):
I was so focused on, you know, being in North
Carolina at the time frame. But I kind of threw
my hat and rings said, yeah, sure, I'll be interested.
I'll go through the process. And they asked me to
do an interview with multiple people from Suffolk County, a
bunch of community leaders, some elected officials, some of the

(01:31:51):
deputy county executives, and you know, I came back, flew back,
did the interview and some of the questions that they
asked me, and I got it. This is very important
for everybody to understand. This is one of the questions.
A lot of the questions he asked me, we already
implemented an NYPD. So we talk about the reform we

(01:32:12):
implemented reform in the NYPD. We talk about how we
deal with overdoses, the things that we did in the NYPD.
We talk about how we deal with drag racing up
at Harlem. It was something that I doubled all so
there wasn't a question that they could ask me where
they was thought me because of my NYPD experience, everything

(01:32:32):
from investigations to patrol to quality of life. They had
a lot of questions, and I want to believe I
was able to answer those questions quite well because of
my NYPD education playing So it is what it is.
So that with a combination of me having the investigative background,

(01:32:56):
and this is where I got to give Steve Blune credit.
You know, his mind was set on I need to
get somebody in here to solve or take a deeper
dive into this Gilgal Beach case. Not necessarily solved, because
if people think that homicides can be snabbed the snap
of a finger, that's the furthest from the truth.

Speaker 1 (01:33:12):
They watched too much Long Daughter, and that's why that
they watched too much Long Daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
We watched thousand percent. Uh, you know for my investigators
that are on this call. God bless you. I know
it's not easy, but you know, sometimes people think that
homicides can always be solved furtherest from the truth. But
one thing that I was able to do was rejuvenate
the investigation. And I think one of the hiccups that

(01:33:38):
were going on out in Suffolk County is everybody knew everybody,
and everybody was friends with everybody, and nobody can necessarily
push somebody to the to the next level to to
to uh take on the task in hand. When I
went out to Suffolk County, I kind of like a loan,

(01:34:01):
like I didn't know anybody. I didn't have any allegiance
or alliances with anybody, so I could kind of do
things without that situation where people could get it would
be offended or if they did get offended, Honestly, I
didn't care. But if you know the people that were
in Suffolk before, I think there might have been a

(01:34:21):
little bit of reluctancy to kind of nudge certain people
to dive deeper into the investigation. And I got to
be very careful how that comes out, because there was
some great investigative work that was done prior to me
getting out there. Let's make sure that it's very clear.
I actually use this phrase quite often, which is, you know,

(01:34:44):
the investigation got down to we'll even say the forty
yard line. I was able to get it to the
red zone, and then working with my partner Ray Tranny,
we were able to get into the end zone. But
getting back to your initial question, I was focusing on
my daughter. I went through multiple interviews with a lot

(01:35:08):
of the county executives, reform people that he had in place,
and then I had to be interviewed by the legislators
out in Suffolk County, which each legislator, each one has
their own concern within their jurisdiction. Once again, NYPD education
allowed me a chance to answer the question to I

(01:35:30):
believe to this satisfaction which allowed me to be unanimously
voted in.

Speaker 1 (01:35:36):
And there you go, and it led to a great
two years that you had there. And I'll get back
to Gilgo in a moment. But just overall, being able
to oversee an operation smaller police department, but not necessarily
a police department we're talking about with only ten officers
like we see in some parts of the country, is
still pretty expansive and a sizable part of Long Island.
It's a good agency. It's one that a lot of

(01:35:56):
people test for, besides the NYPD or even the Port
Authority Police some condition of course Nassau. And we'll get
to some of the other stuff momentarily. But what did
you enjoy most about working out there for the two
years you had the chance to spend out there?

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
You know? You know it's funny is Number one is
this Suffer County has twenty five hundred uniform members of
service out there, which is like, which is like the
twelfth largest police department in the country, believe it, believe
it or not. But one of the things that I saw,
so let me just rewind for one second. You know,
going out to Suffern County, a lot of people were

(01:36:31):
sharing do not go out there. It's corrupt, It's this
Jimmy Burke blah blah blah blah blahs and so forth.
It's it's all these negative things. When I got out there,
I really kind of crack the whip regarding updates, and
every morning I would get an update. There was some

(01:36:52):
type of heroic act by these Suffolk County cops that
it was. It was absolutely incredible. People think Suffoc County
is this suburban police apartment where nothing happens. That is
absolutely false. You know, I remember there was one story
where these cops, I think it was from either the
first or the third priests that I apologize if I

(01:37:14):
get this wrong, but they were pursuing. They weren't in pursuing.
They were following a car. The car takes off. You
gotta think about this Wednesday. I'm gonna break this whole
thing down for you. They're following a car, the car
takes off. They're now not necessarily pursuing, but they're engaged
in the car. The car speeding, swerves out of control, fishtails,
crashes into a tree. The vehicle turns upside down explodes

(01:37:40):
right in front of the CoP's size. They try to
pull the car over, the car takes off, The car
flips over and explodes. What are these cops doing souff
Ac County. They go in and drag these people out
of the car. They dragged them out of the car
while the car is engulfed in flames. And as they
pull them out, they also pulled the bag. And guess

(01:38:00):
what was in the bag. A couple of guns and
some ambulation of course, I mean like it was like
these are the things that I was being briefed on
every single morning from my chief of department, chief of
detective excuse me, John Roman, who I'm a big fan of.
He did a lot of a lot of great work
out there. But it's just, you know, they don't get

(01:38:23):
the credit that they deserve regarding how the full crime
in so many different neighborhoods and communities out in Suffolk County,
and uh, just you know, another quick story if if
you don't mind, one of the cops out there, there
was a robbery the day before and the cops were
kind of like on the outskirts of where the identified

(01:38:46):
perpetrator was. The cop is by himself and stuffing kind
of the they patrol by themselves, and uh, he sees
the individual, He pursues him, gets off the car, chases
and the purp turns around shoots him in his Even
after he's shot in the life, he still continues to
pursue him, puts over the radio, the tract is perpetrated down.

(01:39:06):
We're able to place him in the rest. But the
adrenaline for this cop to continue to be in the
fight after he was shot once again is this the
crime fighting in Suffolk County should not go underrated or underappreciated.
That was one of my biggest things when I was
out there, is to make sure I post on social

(01:39:30):
media platforms or even call a press conference and make
sure that the cops that were out there being recognized
for the great work that they were doing protecting that county.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
Of course, and I'm glad that you recognize them here
on this platform, because again they do deserve it. It's
not an easy job anywhere you go, but rather it
be especially out of Long Island where sometimes people think, god, suburbia,
it's rich people are not necessarily I mean, even if
it's in the shadow of New York City, it's as
you said, it's twelfth largest police department in the nation.
Anything looks small compared to New York City, but this

(01:40:02):
is by no means a small operation. I just wanted
to go back briefly to Gilgo Beach, and you covered
most of it. But of course investigators did a great
job moving from the forty yard line, as you said,
to the red zone ultimately to the end zone, painting
a picture aque to who these victims were first and
finally who their alleged killer. Was so the moment you
find out, Okay, we have some DNA matches, we're moving

(01:40:24):
in on a suspect, we have a name, and ultimately
we have an arrest. You'd been a part of some
big cases during your time in the NYPD. This is
a case that fascinated not just to New York area
but the nation for a long time. It doesn't bring
these individuals back, unfortunately, but to at least get an
arrest and find out at least that your detectives were
going to make it arrest. How fulfilling the moment was

(01:40:45):
that at the very memory.

Speaker 2 (01:40:48):
So I mean, let me even take you back even further.
And I got to make sure right knowwledge the homicide
technical Lieutenant Kevin Buyer, who I could be very honest
with everybody on his call like I was. I came
in with the mindset of getting rid of him, and
I wasn't sure if he was the right person for

(01:41:08):
the job. And I was briefed by him like the
first couple of weeks there, and I asked him every
single investigative question I could possibly think of based upon
my NYP education, and this guy knew it was incredible
how much he knew about this case. He knew the names,

(01:41:28):
he knew locations, he knew family members, he knew you know,
which ones had DNA, how the bodies were discovered. I mean,
I was like, all right, this is my guy. I
just got to make sure that he has the right
resources around him. So me and him developed a very

(01:41:48):
very good relationship, really sharp guy, photographic memory. I had
to write people around him. But I also don't want
to walk away from this interview and not talk about
the investigator from the state Police that you know, went
through the case file, took a look at one of
the victims and somebody that she was engaging that was

(01:42:13):
a big, big guy, six six, fuzzy head, glasses, jove,
a green avalanche, and she did a TLO check that
was able to get us to an individual by the
name of Rex Sherman. And that teamwork, that partnership, to
me was very very rewarding, making sure that we were

(01:42:37):
all working together. The satisfaction of identifying a suspect and
then being able to put the pieces of the puzzle
together through subpoenas and a wholet of other things that
there was gratifying because you know, I'm a big fan
of teamwork. I'm a big fan of partnerships. I'm a

(01:42:59):
big fan of everybody, are you working together? And then
making sure we all celebrate in the situation we bring
an animal to justice. And that's exactly what happened in
Southern County. It was great work by the people of
the task force, having all weekly meetings, making sure we

(01:43:20):
were shooting different ideas in the room and coming up
with suggestions what should be next, what should we do here,
said so and so forth. I mean, it was very,
very intricate in regards to a lot of different decisions
that were made, but just being able to get to
a point where we were looking at getting him pre

(01:43:42):
indicted was one of the highlights of my law enforcement career.

Speaker 1 (01:43:48):
Understandably, it puts a face to evil and evil that
had acted out over such a prolonged period of time,
and again, does it bring these victims back, No, but
it at least provides some accountability that has long been missing.
And thank you for acknowledging the investigators who are involved
in that. They deserve a lot of credit for what
they do or what they did in that case and
what they continue to do since then. That was something
I definitely want to dive into with you as well.

(01:44:10):
So you retire ultimately at the end of twenty twenty
three from Suffolk County. They're now in the private sector.
And before I get to the concluding segment, now you
have an opportunity, assuming you don't go back into law enforcement,
to look back at your career between New York City
and Suffolk. If you have to define it in a
sentence looking back, as there was a lot you did
and saw, how would you define such a whirlwind of

(01:44:31):
a career?

Speaker 2 (01:44:32):
Yeah, what world wind is an understatement, but I will
say this. I came on a job very immature, not
even sure if I wanted to do this type of work,
and I was able to walk away having the highest
level of people in law enforcement. And people don't understand

(01:44:56):
if you're not in this line of work, if you're
or the outside and you want to kind of challenge
or play Monday morning quarterback towards some of the work
that's being done, shame on you. These individuals, these men
and women that put these uniform not just NYP, not
just Suffoco. I'll just talking about the whole the whole country.

(01:45:20):
They're putting the lives online for people that they don't know.
And coming from an individual like myself who had my
displeasures with law enforcement to now I'm actually able to
be part of this program and talk about such a
noble profession. It's really very very humbling and rewarding. If

(01:45:46):
you don't know, I also have two daughters that are
on the NYPD as well, ones in the one thirteenth Squad,
the other ones in the sixty three squad. They're following
their dad's footsteps being investigators, you know. Being a seOne
squad arguably was one of the premier positions that I
was able to be in. But the level of underappreciation

(01:46:12):
for my law enforcement family is very, very frustrating. Anytime
I have an opportunity to pound my chest and talk
about police work and the dangers that come with it,
be it your partner being shot in Bestue of Brooklyn
to anything to being involved with a serial killer case,

(01:46:36):
one of the biggest serial killer cases in the state
of New York. It's always good to talk about the
great police work that I've seen over my thir two
years career in law enforcement.

Speaker 1 (01:46:49):
I'm glad you came on tonight to discuss it with
us in depth, and we certainly appreciate your time, both myself,
Producer Bick and them. Everybody you tuned in tonight via Facebook, LinkedIn,
and YouTube. That brings us into the rapid fire. Now
I went easy on you. Now it's grabbing fire coming.
Five hit and running questions for me, five right answers
from you again, They're fun questions, I kid. The first

(01:47:10):
one is if time machines exist and you can go
back in time like you do with the movies, right,
and you can go back there, you go, there, you go?

Speaker 2 (01:47:17):
All right?

Speaker 1 (01:47:17):
That covers it, all right. Second, it's late at night,
you're hungry, you want to stop into any restaurant in
the city. What is Commissioner Harrison grabbing after a late night?
O Patroller working undercover?

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
Johnny Walker Blue and Rosarious Age?

Speaker 1 (01:47:32):
All right, not a bad combination at all. Third, funniest
colleague or colleagues you ever worked with?

Speaker 2 (01:47:39):
Colleagues?

Speaker 1 (01:47:40):
Colleague or if one name comes to mindor colleagues you
could gain multiple It's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:47:47):
I apologize, I worked with tons of colleagues.

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
Is it in particular or that doesn't matter. Whoever you
thought was the funniest.

Speaker 2 (01:47:55):
Or my wife you know, I met my wife and academy,
and the thing that attracted me to her, to her
the most was her sense of human So and if
I don't give that answer, I'm probably get punched in
the mouth later. So let's let's stay with my wife,
all right.

Speaker 1 (01:48:11):
Is this kind of in line with the food question
I asked you earlier favorite bar or restaurant in New
York City rather you were on patrol grabbing a late
night bite or not.

Speaker 2 (01:48:20):
I'm a simple guy. I'm very honest with you. I
don't have a favorite bar or whatever. So it's a
t g Ifs or an Applebee's or whatever case will be.
As long as there serving drinks, I'll walk into any
bar and have a cocktail. So I don't have a
specific location that I always I always go to. But
I do belong to a cigar spot over in Eisenhower

(01:48:45):
Park called the General. That's probably my go to spot
where I go in here and have a cocktail and
have a nice smoke with the fellas there, which is,
by the way, a lot of cops hang out there too,
which is a good It's a good hangout spot.

Speaker 1 (01:48:57):
Gotcha. And the last question, of course, you kind of
shutting your daughters on the job now, so you got
the chance to mentor them and give advice to them.
But just to cross the board, let's say we got
young members of the service or aspiring members of the
service listening and watch it tonight. What advice would you
give them based on your thirty two years in law enforcement.

Speaker 2 (01:49:14):
So regarding my daughters, I feel bad for them because
I constant them over their investigation cases. So nobody has
it harder regarding the you know, getting their chops broken
than the Harrison girls, because I'm always asking about their investigations,
making sure they're.

Speaker 5 (01:49:29):
Doing it right.

Speaker 2 (01:49:30):
But regarding young people coming in a job, listen that
it was always work for me. Listen to your senior people,
and if you happen to move up, listen to the
people that are your subordinates as well, because as long
as you're listen and welcoming and opening to ideas and suggestion,

(01:49:53):
you'll be better. And not just the law enforce, but
any skill set that you're happen to go into.

Speaker 1 (01:49:58):
Awesome. Thank you very much Toick Aroun we'll talk off here.
Thank you to producer Victor on the Ones and Tuesday
Night as always, and for all of you who tuned
in tonight via YouTube, linked or Facebook, and those of
you who will tune in on the audio side when
we publish it up there later on coming up next
to the Mike the New Haven Podcast. We don't know
if we'll have a show Monday, probably not, but if
we do book a guest, we'll let you know, of course.

(01:50:19):
But we do have someone for next Friday, and this
will be a pre recorded interview that will be airing
next Friday. He was referred to as the godfather of
homicide a lot of investigations he did over the course
of his career and the NYPD and the Detective Bureau.
And that is Vernon Jebberth, who I believe taught the
homicide course for a while down for NYPD detectives who
were newly promoted or wanted to take that course. I

(01:50:40):
look forward to profiling him. That should be a good interview.
We spoke earlier today and again we'll let you know
about Monday. For those of you listening on the audio side,
this song has been stuck in my head and I've
had it on repeat for the last few weeks, so
you're gonna hear it tonight. On the outro for those
of you listening on Spotify, Apple, so on and so
forth from his nineteen eighty eight album The Great Adventures
of Slick Rickets Other than Slick Rick coming your way

(01:51:01):
with children's story in the meantime on behalf of retired
NYPD Chief of Department and Suffolk County Police Commissioner Roddy Harrison,
and producer Victor and all of you in the audience.
I am Michael Ohne. This has been volume sixteen of
the Beat Profiles the Police Stationwide, and we will see
you next time on a great weekend. And Stiff.

Speaker 6 (01:51:29):
Bayle All right, two kids, get it, bet I get
the story on.

Speaker 2 (01:51:40):
You all tucked in.

Speaker 7 (01:51:43):
Here, there you go on.

Speaker 6 (01:51:46):
Was upon a time, not long ago, people wore madamins
and leve lifes, love will oaws were stern and justice
to have people will behind me like they oughts are good.
They live the little boy who was misled by a
lovely little boy.

Speaker 2 (01:51:58):
And this is what he's say.

Speaker 6 (01:52:00):
You timing on to make some cash, robbing old folks
and making the day they did the job. Money came
with ease, but one couldn't stop. It's like he had
a disease. He robbed a number and another, and my
sister and her brother tried to rob a man and
wasn't easy on the cover. The cop grabbed his army
started act heras he said keep still, punched him in
his belly, and he gave him a slap her. Little

(01:52:21):
did he know the little boy he was strapped. The
kid pulled out a gun.

Speaker 7 (01:52:24):
He said, why did you hit me?

Speaker 6 (01:52:25):
The bottle said straight for the CoP's kidney. The cop
got scared. The kid he starts two figure two years
if I pulled this trick. So he cold dashed and
ran around the block cop radios into another lady cop.
He ran by a tree. There he saw his sister
shot for the head. He shot back when he missed her,
looked round, gooding from expectations. He decided he hit for
the subway stations, but she was coming and he made

(01:52:48):
her left. He was running top speed till he was
out of breath. Knocked an old man down and swore
he killed him. Then he made his book to an
abandoned building, ran up the stairs up to the top floor,
opened up a door.

Speaker 7 (01:52:59):
There.

Speaker 6 (01:52:59):
Guess who he saw, Dave the dope be shoot and
dope who don't know the meaning of wards.

Speaker 2 (01:53:04):
I know it's soap, he said, I need bullets.

Speaker 6 (01:53:06):
Hurry up, brun the dope.

Speaker 7 (01:53:08):
He brought back a spanking shot.

Speaker 2 (01:53:09):
Done.

Speaker 6 (01:53:10):
He went outside, but there was cops sol over and
he dipped into a car a stolen over, raced up
the block doing eighty three, crashed into a Trenare University.
Escaped alive, though the car was battered right at tad
sattered and all the cops scattered, ran out of bullets,
and he still head starting grat the pregnant lady. I
will got the automatic pointed out ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:53:29):
He said.

Speaker 6 (01:53:29):
The gun was pulling lady tole the cops back off.

Speaker 7 (01:53:32):
For honey, here is dead.

Speaker 6 (01:53:33):
Deep in his heart he knew he was wrong. So
we let the lady go, and he starts to run
on siren sounded. He seemed astounded, and before long the
little boy got around it.

Speaker 1 (01:53:42):
He dropped his gun.

Speaker 7 (01:53:44):
So went the glory. And this is the way I
have to end this story.

Speaker 6 (01:53:47):
He was only one team in a madman's dream. The
cops shot the kid to still hear him scream this
same funny, So don't you dare laugh? Just another case
about the wrong path, straight and arrow A your Soldiers
cast good Night, talk about.

Speaker 7 (01:54:02):
The Box, talk about talk about the box, talcout.

Speaker 5 (01:54:15):
Dot nuck doc dc knock doc nock doc doc no
no nnock about the box, talk about the box, talk
about talk about the box.

Speaker 7 (01:54:28):
Talk about Donock doc.

Speaker 5 (01:54:30):
Doc d n nuck doc d doc Donock doc doc
do knock d knock doc doc do no do.

Speaker 7 (01:54:41):
No n doc doc nuck doc doc.

Speaker 5 (01:54:45):
Doc doc don donnal about the box.

Speaker 2 (01:54:49):
He dun

Speaker 6 (01:54:51):
Vance bride, break the ruder presentation, Tack the crumbs, Tack

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