Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're listening to The Mike the New Avent Podcast, hosted
by media personality and consultant Mike Cologne. Back to the
(00:42):
PD side on the Mike the New Avent Podcast. Welcome back,
of course, to what is episode three hundred and sixty.
We've been on a two week stretch of doing straight
FD andy shows, which was fun. The previous episode was
the Milestone volume seventy of the Best and the Bravest,
featuring former FD and Y paramedic Mark Pat who works
in New York City EMS pre merger with the FT
and Y in nineteen ninety six and also post merger
(01:03):
until he retired in two thousand and five. So a
lot of fun shows lately. But we're getting back to
our PD roots. So because we haven't done a PD
show in a bit, we got a great guest for
that tonight. As always, for those of you tuning in
on YouTube, LinkedIn and Facebook, if you had a question,
fire away. The super Chat's there for you on YouTube.
And really looking forward to this one as we try
to grow the show and the march to four hundred begins.
(01:24):
We are forty episodes away from that milestone number. I
won't keep our guests waiting too long. Of course, I
got one half of the finance and filtered on last
year when I had the great conversation with Lieutenant Eric
dimm The other half of that podcast will be coming
up shortly, but as always, you know by now Billy
Ryan and the Ryan Investigative Group let's roll, They're at
the Mike Thing Newhapen podcast is proudly sponsored and supported
(01:47):
by the Ryan Investigative Group. If you need an elite PI,
look no further than the elite Ryan Investigative Group, which
is run by retired NYP Detective Bill Ryan, a twenty
year veteran of the Department who served a majority of
his career in the Day Active Bureau, most notably in
the Arson explosion squad. So if you need a PI
to handle anything from fraud, legal services, and anything else
(02:07):
that you might require, contact Bill at three four seven
four one seven sixteen ten Again three four seven four
one seven sixteen ten. Reach him at his website or
the email that you see here. Again, if you need
a PI, look no further than Bill Ryan and the
Ryan Investigative Through. A proud supporter and sponsor of the
Mike de New Haven Podcast, proud supporter. Indeed love that guy.
(02:28):
He's one of the best, one of the best. For
short and just a quick note before I introduce my guest. Momentarily,
should you be interested in sponsoring the program and you
want to reach out and discuss it by all means,
My contact information is in the description of this episode.
Reach out out, let's see if we can get something going,
especially if your business is in the New York City area.
All right, on that note, my next guest is a
retired NYPD lieutenant whose career saw him rise from street
(02:51):
level patrol work to eternal commander roles responsible for integrity control,
field operations, as well as citywide coordination. With nearly two
decades of experience in police seeing from anti crime and
field intelligence work to supervising and handling internal investigations, he's
built a reputation for leadership and a deep understanding of
the systems involved with policing. He is, of course, also
one half of the very popular Finest Unfiltered podcast, hosted
(03:15):
by retired NYPD Lieutenant Eric did and tonight's guest, who
we introduced now retired NFPD Lieutenant John McCarry. John, Welcome,
how are you all right?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Mike, thanks for having me. Pleasure to be.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
On, Oh, pleasure to have you. So before we get
into anything involving your career, you're in New York City, kid,
and you've talked about that of the show before. Take
me through where you grew up.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I grew up in benson Hurst, Brooklyn. I grew up
on sixty eighth Street between twenty and twenty first I
grew I was born in nineteen eighty, so you know,
it was a great upbringing. I moved in my early teens.
I moved to Staten Island, and then I stayed in
Staten Island for you know, the majority of my life,
you know, and I recently moved away, moved down to Florida.
(03:54):
You know, I'm forty five now, but I spent first
forty two years of my life in New York City,
Brooklyn out So.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
If I remember correctly, your first generation PD. Now, I've
talked about this before with the FTMPD guys. Usually somebody
in the family or friend of the family says, hey, listen, kid,
go take the test. You don't have to take the job.
And take the test. It's a good job, and you
know you're gonna get a pension out of it. So
did somebody tell you, you know, hey, listen, why don't
you take the test for sanitation FDPD? Or did you
just always want to be a cop?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
You know, I definitely never wanted to be a cop.
I was. I was kind of a bad kid when
I When I was growing up, my mother was a
school crossing guard, So I did have a lot of
interactions with cops with like the school crossing guard Cord
and I would go to the six eight priest and
with her, excuse me, the sixty second prison with her
when she would pick up a check. And you know,
so I was familiar with cops and being a kid.
(04:43):
I remember saying to my mother like, oh, I'm gonna
be a cop when I get older. And she's like,
You're never taken that job. That job's too dangerous. I
want you to do something else, you know. And uh,
So I'd gotten in trouble in my teen years. I've
gotten arrested twice. I've gotten numerous summonses, things like that.
You know, it was dooring, the Rudy Giuliani, uh the
broken windows theory of policing, whereas a real crackdown, you know,
(05:04):
New York city was a city of crime, and I
watched it transform into like this safe metropolis. And during
that time, I grew up. I matured. I was working,
and I just got a letter in the mailbox one
day to take the police exam. And my older sister, uh,
you know, she was she was dating a cop. And
(05:24):
so I called my sister and I said, you know what. Uh,
I was like, the police department just sends you the
invite to go take the test. She's like, no, I
signed you up, just go take it. So I was like,
all right. So I was like, you know what, I was,
I was working. I was like, you know what, I
could probably do that job. It sounds like fun. Then
I started thinking about it. I'm like, you know, it's
a scary job. But I sign up. I take the test,
(05:44):
I go through the motions. You know, I'm honest with
them during the whole promo, all through the whole process
and my history and all that, and and next thing
I know, about six months later, I'm a police officer.
I'm getting accepted into the police academy.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
So take me through this because it's interesting time. We'll
get onto you, and we'll get to you getting onto
the street momentarily, But police academy, I don't know how
it's run now, but back then I know it was
no joke. So getting on, I mean a little bit
of the classroom you're getting because you have to learn
police science, but there's also the PT and there's also
heavy amounts of training involved to be physically capable to
do that job. Take me through what that academy experience
(06:19):
was like. Was it intense? Was it a mixture of
that too? What do you remember most about it?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
You know, I was always like a physical kid. I
was always working out, I was always playing sports. So
like going to the academy for me was hysterical. I
felt like I was getting paid to be back in
high school. Cause it was just I was like, Wow,
I'm getting paid to work out and learn and be educated,
you know, and I'm there with a bunch of clowns
and you know, having a good time like all kids
(06:45):
like me, you know, kind of like no direction. The
next thing we know with cops and with kids from
my neighborhood. There were kids from the other neighborhoods or
kids from Brooklyn that I knew. So it was like
it was a really good experience. Was the training and tense. Absolutely,
it was intense. Absolutely, it was something that I think
anybody could get through, but you had to be dedicated
(07:08):
to get through it. You know. I was always at
a little higher level of athleticism than most people, so
it didn't really it wasn't I wasn't really different from
my normal life. I would go from the academy, running,
doing push ups, doing all that. I would leave the academy,
I'd go work out. I'd go to the gym, so like,
you know, like and there were a lot of people
like that, but I witnessed during that time a lot
(07:29):
of people come in that really didn't have that same
type of knowledge of working out, learn how to work
out and actually transform going from the overweight to skinny.
And I really saw people transform physically mentally, And I
think that the part of the academy that stuck out
to me. And I liked it because I'm humble. I
stayed humble, you know, and like the yelling, the screaming,
(07:51):
the desensitizing of you, and I just I took it well.
I never like, I always laughed about it, you know.
I kept a straight face while it was happening, but
I would laugh about it after, you know, and I
really enjoyed the Academy experience. I thought it was great.
I was like, this is awesome, man, I'm getting paid
to like study and work out. I couldn't ask for
a better job to start with.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
You know, oh, one hundred and ten percent. And it's
kind of like, you know, it's funny hearing that because
it's the opposite for me as you know, as you've
probably heard about I'm trying to be a fireman. You
don't get mad at me. I know, we don't talk
about fireman when we were talking to cops. But nevertheless,
you know, it's the opposite because I'm trying to bulk up.
Usually people are slipping down, but I'm trying to bulke up.
And at least, you know, with Academy, it's one hundred
and ten percent true in that regard your instructors. I mean,
(08:34):
early on, they're trying to break you from the standpoint,
they're trying to see who's weak, who's going to crack.
But then again, you get to know your instructors after
a while, and it's almost like you're talking to two
different people. You know, it's only meant to I mean again,
You've heard it set a million times before. And Eric
can relate to this because he went through it both
with the PD Academy and the military breaking down and
build you up.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah. No, I mean, like, you know, my gym instructor,
he swore he knew me from the neighborhood. But I
didn't know this guy from a hole in the well.
He thought I was somebody that I wasn't. And so,
you know, he gave a speech in front of the
academy one time and he's like, you know, you're not
going to be out there and there you're a cop. Now,
you're not gonna be out there on the street. And
eighteenth day when you get into fights and balls like
macarry over here, and I'm like, what the hell is
(09:15):
a good classroom filled with a hundred cops? And I'm like,
I'm like, who does this guy think I am? And
then he would just always drop me to carry drop
give me a hundred right, And then one time he
kept me in parade rest. I don't even know how
long it was, but it was a long. It was
to the point that I was like shivering and shaking
and I was just had a pool of sweat and
I didn't want to break. And he was like, look
(09:35):
at you, Look at you. You're not as tough as
you look. And I was like, oh, thank you, sir,
you know, thank you sir. And he's like, oh yeah,
and he just kept me there forever. And you know,
like most I think a lot of people would have
would have felt like at that adversity and been mad
about it. But I honestly appreciated him and we never
really had that connection. He was always riding me the
(09:57):
whole time. But afterwards, you know, he was great, and
you know, we hugged it out and I thought I
thought it was great. I enjoyed the entire experience, you know,
but he definitely rode me. And I was like, you
know what I was, I was willing to do it.
I was like, you know what, he thinks, I'm somebody,
I'm not. What am I gonna do? I can't change
his mind. Let me just let me just stay shut
up and do what I will do what he tells
me to do.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah, I mean, internally, he's probably thinking, yes, this guy,
this guy is gonna be good once he hits the streets.
Because even though they're trying to break in that moment,
internally that kind of response, that's exactly what they want.
That's exactly what they want, and so you get out
And what's interesting is I really enjoy talking to people
because it's always fascinating on this program those that got
onto the NYPD or African y Post nine to eleven
(10:38):
in this instance, NYPD two thousand and four, three years
after the tragedy. This is Ray Kelly's NYPD. He's back
for a second go around. And what is also interesting
about his second status commissioner is he's single handedly turned
the NYPD into a world class counter terrorism operations. So
the NYPD can do both. They can fight urban crime,
crimes really going down at this time, continuing the trend
(10:59):
from the nineties, and you can also fight counter terrorism
matters as well keep the city safe on that front.
So getting out there and starting out in the one, two,
three and Staten Island at oh four, tell me about
the makeup of the neighborhood and what the concept was
at that time, because it's not quite broken windows something different,
but the concept in terms of driving crime down, it's
still the same.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Well, but at that time we were still broken windows.
So originally post academy, you know, we get like a
dream sheet and they ask you where you want to
go or whatever, and uh, the guy that my sister
was dating is now my brother in law, right, and
he's like, hey, dude, you don't want to you don't
want to work on Staten Island, Like you don't want
to live where you work? You know, he goes, you
want to work in Brooklyn. So they give me a
(11:38):
dream sheet. I pick Old Brooklyn and sure enough I
get sent to the one too oh. I go to
the one two oh precinct and when I get there,
they give you two options. They're like, do you want
to go to field training or do you want to
go to Impact or we're going to teach you how
to summons people and arrest people. I volunteer. It was
the last time I volunteered for anything because what I
(11:59):
came to find out that I belonged to the borough.
But what so what I did was I went into
Operation Impact. And what Operation Impact was is you go
into the high crime neighborhoods, right and you're out there,
and you know, it wasn't the best format because we
didn't have a lot of seasoned guys overseeing us. But
what happened was. While we were there, there was a
(12:20):
couple of anti crime guys that got a little jammed up,
and so they wanted to humble them a little, so
they took them out of anti crime and they made
them our field training officers. So it was honestly, I
we really my class in particular, got like really great
training from really great cops. And what we would do
is go out there and enforce minor crimes. We were
(12:40):
operating under the broken windows of policing. We were taught
on how to know who the criminals are, how to
study patterns, how to understand what the patterns are, and
go after those criminal patterns, whether it's burglary, robbery, shootings,
by using minor crimes like people drinking, people smoking marijuana,
people literally people loitering. And it was a great experience.
(13:03):
So I did that for about a year and they
sent me to the one two three one two three.
Completely different ballgame, right, But I had that knowledge of
proactive police work and broken windows style of policing. Same
thing that I hated when I was a kid when
it was the point on me, but I understood it
better as an adult. I watched what happened to forty
second Street. I watched what happened to Red Hook, Brooklyn.
(13:26):
I watched what happened to all these parts of the city,
and I'm like, this is why, this is why the
city is cleaning up, This is why business is coming
in here. This is why I could walk around Manhattan
at three o'clock in the morning and not worry about
a thing and a group of girls and not worry
about anything. Take the train. So I did that, and
I brought that knowledge that I learned in the one
(13:47):
two over to the one two three. They send me
to the one two three. I'm doing midnights, very hard.
Schedule never worked for me, it was it It like,
it wasn't good for me physically. Yeah, but there was
a lot of seasoned guys on there. There's a lot
of older guys on there, really towards the end of
their career, and they kind of taught me how to
be a well rounded police officer, you know, not just
(14:10):
this guy that's going to go out there and put
his hands on people, search people and lock people up.
They taught me the value of communication, working as a team, tactics.
A lot of that I learned from older guys in
the one two three that had experience in the seven
to five and the seven to three and then went
there more towards the end of their career. And the
good thing about midnights at that time was one two three.
(14:33):
I mean, most of the neighborhoods that are there now
weren't even built, right. It was very low crime at
the time, but they were still crying there. They still
had burglary patterns, they still had robbery patterns, they still
had grand lossity patterns. They didn't get that violent street
crime like you would get in a houses like the
one two zero or the seven to five. But that
being on midnights gave me the ability to actually drive
(14:55):
around and hunt as if I was in anti crime.
The only difference was I in a car in uniform
and and but I had the time not answering all
the radio runs like I would have in the one
two oh or any of the busier preasints. So it
was a great learning experience. And obviously, you know, I
moved into anti crime pretty quick from that point on.
(15:17):
You know, I did midnights about a year or two,
and then you know, I was off for a couple
of different spots, but I I ultimately that's what I
wanted to do from the moment I walked in the
police department. It's like, that's what I want to do.
I want to do plain close policing, and I want
to go after the bad guys and I want to
do I want to I wanna hunt people that are
doing bad things.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
And it's interesting noting what I meant to say, and
I misspoke earlier. I believe the concept was still broken windows.
They tried to word it as zero tower the time,
but it's still the same overall principle from the nineties.
And reason why Commissioner Kelly was so adamant about it
is because, of course it's decades long feud with the
Commissioner Bratton. He wanted the credit for the crime Shop.
It kind of started under him when he was first
commission in ninety two ninety three. He wanted to kind
(15:58):
of put a stamp back on it when he came
back in two thousand and two. And this is when
anti crime was really anti crime. You can change the
names of it a million times over. It's still at
its core the anti crime team and that was real
back then, playing close policing where even if people in
the neighborhood knew who you were. You were trying to
blend in, but even if they could spot you out.
That was the cat and mouse skin. The NYPD was
(16:21):
winning during that era because it kept criminals on their
toes and they were constantly looking over their shoulder for
you guys, and you know, when the time was right,
you could bust them. Because here's the thing. When somebody's
on the corner loitering, this isn't always the case, but
majority of the time it is. Chances are they may
have a gun on them, Chances are they may have
drugs on them. Even if none of that is on them,
you stop your questioning them again an id run it back. Oh,
they got an outstanding warrant for crime insert crime here.
(16:43):
That was something that you know again, It targeted the recidivius.
It targeted those who were routinely out there as bad actors,
and as a result, they kept those who needed to
be on their toes on their toes. And it allowed
exactly for, like you said, the innocent residents of the
city to be able to enjoy the city, which they
should be able to do. If you live there and
work there, why not enjoy it?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
No Yeah, it was a I mean, honestly, to me,
it was like it was the biggest privilege in the world. Like,
you know, I kind of like, I'm kind of glad
that I got sent to Staten Island after a while,
because I was like, you know what, it did stink
a little bit, like being a cop. But I was
always used to adversity as a kid, so it wasn't
really a big deal like seeing guy I locked up
in the mall the next night, or going out to
(17:26):
a bar and seeing somebody that I locked up or
had stopped. So I was always used to adversity. But
I really felt it was a privilege being in my
neighborhood and then really being able to help people in
my neighborhood, right like somebody's breaking into your car or
somebody's breaking into houses. I had a real vested interest
in getting these people, not because I wanted a medal
(17:47):
or I wanted my name out there or anything like that.
I just felt like it was it was honestly, it
was like it was like a vocation. It was like
a calling. I was like, you know what, I have
the privilege and the opportunity to do this. Uh, you
know what, what I I expect what would I expect
the police officers to do in my shoes? And that's
what I did. You know, I didn't really have the
knowledge of what being a police officer really is, you know,
(18:12):
and so I kind of learned it through watching other cops,
through watching sergeants and you know, and then really just
just going in, you know, head over tolls into the profession,
you know.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Of course. And what I will ask you about plain clothes.
And we're talking with John McCay, retired and YPD lieutenant,
one half of the finest and filtered podcast here at
the Mike new Haven Podcast is tell me about again,
because again you got to know your area. These are
high crime areas for the most part, these are impact areas.
Tell me about I guess, blending in where you don't
want to make too obvious, even if they could kind
of spotch out, they know who the usual players are.
(18:44):
Being able to blend in and maintain that element of
surprise that made anti crime and before that street crime
is so effective back in the day.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So listen, being a streak kid, I was always able
to point out, like who's in plain clothes?
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Right?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
We used to call them gnogs or under cover whatever.
I was always able to spot out who was a
cop and who was not. Right, It's it's pretty obvious,
right you see the guy in Camlo shorts and jersey.
I don't know what they wear today, but like you
would be able to point them out. They're driving a
big boat car Crown vic or Chevy and Paula at
the time, and so I was very cognizant of that
(19:19):
as as a plain clothes officer. At one point in
my career, we were driving around in the maroon Crown Victoria.
Everyone and their mother knew who we were. We worked
at nights though, so like how did how did?
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Like?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
We we blend around driving around. We would do the
stunt and probably annoys people. And I'm sorry if it's
ever happened to you, but we would put the brights on.
We would drive around with the brights on, so you
couldn't make out the shape of the car. You couldn't
make out the shape of the headlights. So and then
on top of that, we got out of the car
a lot. So if I saw you hanging out, I'd
(19:51):
go park four or five blocks away, walk up. I'd
be behind and behind cars watching seeing what you're doing.
Are you breaking into cars? Are you using drug us?
And there was a lot of like there was a
lot of deception to to watch and observe what was happening.
You know, we've caught in like like my specialty was
(20:12):
like I caught kids breaking into cars. I can't tell
you how many times. And and it was that's and
that's basically how we did it. Like we solved many
like city wide and burrow patterns. That's exactly how we
did it. It wasn't through being in the car. You know,
when we drove around. Sometimes we were in the car.
We had those brights on to confuse people. But the
(20:32):
minute we saw somebody that didn't look right, you got
to think, Now, I'm in Staten Island. It's two o'clock
in the morning. Nobody's out right, so it's us in
the purpse, right, so they know where out there. They
hear your engine two blocks away, they're run it. You
know it has that significant engine, a Crown Vic or
even even even the Uh, even the the Impala. And
(20:54):
there's been plenty of times I've stopped kids and tried
to do them the favor. I'm like, listen, I know
what you're doing, get out of here, like, don't do
what you're about to do. And then you know, and
then and then I went around the block observed them,
and I watched them either break into cars, tend to
break into house, rob somebody, whatever it is. And and
you know that was through that type of work, but
(21:16):
also driving around, you know, knowing what crimes are happening
and what they're taking in the precinct, like what's your
main problem, Like, well, you know what happened over the
weekend when you weren't there, what happened to night prior
when you weren't there, And knowing all right, I had
a cluster of burglaries in this area, What am I
gonna do? First thing I do when I get into work,
(21:36):
I'm gonna start observing those locations where those burglaries are.
I'm gonna see if there's any identifying if there's any
cameras or anything that could lead me or any type
of witness information that could lead me to who could
possibly be doing this. And you know, just just a
quick example of that is like I came in over
the weekend and I did every what I would do
every day. I would run all of the complaint reports.
(21:57):
We called them sixty ones in the NYPD, I would
run all the complaint reports. What for the two days
I was out and we had a cluster of burerries
and so watching the cluster of burglaries, they were all
in a very tight knit radius. So I was like,
all right, let's go to the first house that that
happened to. When I go there, I see out of
the side apartment this kid walking out of the side
(22:18):
apartment and two kids in a car, and I'm like,
do I watch them or do I just take them?
Did this kid just break into the side house where
the house was already broken into? And I stopped them immediately.
I stop all the kids immediately. As the kid gets
into he's about to get into the driver's side, they're
parked on the wrong side of the street. Face it,
(22:39):
they're double parked on the wrong side of the street,
facing the wrong way right, So I have them for
double parking at that point. Now, when I roll up
on them, they're they're nervous, but not that nervous. But
when I look in the center console, there's gold coins
and there's jewelry, and there's all this other stuff right
in the center console. Now, one of the complaint reports
that I had read is they stole, is that gold
(23:02):
coins and jewelry were missing, like these significant gold coins.
So I immediately get on the horn with the detective squad,
and detective Squad's like, you should have stayed out of there.
I'm texting them the photos. They're like, that's not the coins,
you idiot. Why are you? Why are you in our area?
Like you shouldn't have been there. What are you doing?
And now I'm like, oh man, I got this kid. Stop.
(23:23):
I got all these kids. Stop. They have all this
jewelry on them and I don't know where it's from.
And I'm like, you know, I have them all separated,
and I'm like, bro, where's jewelry? Fum. He's like, and
the kids like, I just broke up with my girlfriend.
I just took it back from huh, like totally lying
but not shaking, not nervous or anything. And just luckily
as I'm sitting there, nine one one call comes over
and uh and you know it was a garage door
(23:45):
was broken into, like right around the block from where
we were, and and so and then winded up, you know,
the kid winded up confessing and we closed that whole
pattern of burglaries over the weekend. And that's kind of
the work that I enjoyed doing. Like that was my
favorite time in policing. Is like doing anti crime, I mean,
because you really do see an impact and you know,
(24:06):
on the other end of it, you get people back
there things right, like a woman a wedding ring her grandma,
this wedding ring, and I'm able to give that to them,
and you know, and and like that that's impactful, you
know what I mean? That like that sticks with me,
not stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Of course, I mean, and I say that the following
I say this lovingly. The guys that are working plane
clothes and even the guys in uniform that are active
and get out there, like Sal Greco, who we've interviewed
on the show before and talked about his career. Those
are the grunts. Usually grunts has a negative connotation, not
in this instance, the grunts of the NYPD. Those are
the ones that are really holding the city together. Because
without those guys and gals being as active as they are,
(24:41):
what do you have when you have a city in disarray?
And again it takes listen. They often say you need
more guts than brains to be a police officer. I
guess I say it's true with the fire Service, but
in this instance, you know, listen brains helps because even
if it wasn't those specific kids, look at that. A
pattern was closed right then and there you knew something
was up, even if it was out of your area.
Even if it wasn't the coins, something was up. You
(25:03):
weren't gonna let them go until you found out what
that something was. And look what came out of it
quality arrest.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, no, I mean, and that's you know, and that's
something that like, you know, I think, you know, kind
of got demonized that work. It got demonized unfairly.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
And it had a lot to do with with the
missy the and proper use of stop questioning risk. But
that's not something I really ever partook in because again
I worked in in the one two three precint and
like the misnow mir that's always around is that, oh,
you guys only used broken windows dairy and black and
brown neighborhoods. And I'm like, really should have grow up
in Benson harrist and you should grow up in stin
(25:38):
Is with me, because I got broken windows deployed on
me every day, if the sun, if the sun came
down and I was playing basketball, we were all getting
tossed in the middle of a basketball game, get up
against the fence, you know. So I'm like that it's
not it's it's it's it's it's it's a lie that
the police department only utilized those tactics in certain neighborhoods.
They used them in all neighborhoods, and then they took
(25:59):
it overboard to continuously use UF two fifties, which is
a stop question for form as a number, right, because
everything in the police department's numbers driven how many touches
do you have, how many stops do you have, how
many arrests did you make, how many summons is did
you write? And so that type of work got demonized
to always, oh, it's you guys are just trying to
(26:20):
make your quota. And I never really played ball with
it because again, like when you're looking at a stop
question frisk, you're looking at someone that's committing a violent
felony or a violent robbery or a really one of
the seven majors, right, And I'm like, I work in
the one, two three, we get about six robberies here,
a year. I'm like, I'm not gonna There's no way
that I could possibly drive around and think that twenty
(26:42):
guys are committing a robbery. It's just not possible. If
I think someone's committing a robbery, I have no problem,
and I stopped doing I put my hands on you.
I have no problem documenting your name. So I never
played in that game, and I never really got much
crap for it because I was so active and I
did bring in quality arrest and I go after those patterns,
so I never really got bothered for it. Where other
(27:04):
guys did, they would get like a lot, a lot
more pressure than I received to meet numbers. But again
it was because I was active and I always brought
in a lot of a lot of arrests. And the
majority of the arrest I brought in had nothing to
do with the nine one on radio. Had everything to
do with knowing what's going on and then going after
that and figuring out who's doing it, and then obtaining
(27:27):
probable calls and arresting them.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
And that's the thing I've talked about with a lot
of plane clothes guys on the show, yourself included. I mean, obviously,
if it's something like a ten thirteen something extreme and
you're on the radio and you hear it. Yeah, all
hands on deck.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
You go.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
The key to being a plane closed cop, at least
back then, whether it was in the old days of
street crime or with anti crime. You're not on the
radio a lot. You're not really in because you said earlier,
you're not in the car a lot. It's all by feel,
it's all by instinct in what you're observing. It's all
a matter of the naked eye and obviously the trading
that comes in when you first get to plane clothes
(28:00):
veteran guys and gals that are leading you and building
you up. So that I mean, like I said, not
to say that you can't be in a sector car,
listen to the radio and pick up on things and act.
That's important too, But that's really the core. That's why
I love plain close so much. That's the core of
policing right there, because it's not what you hear, it's
what you see. And that's really again, any any plain
(28:21):
close cop that has a great understanding of that is
always going to be a success.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
And you certainly were, Yeah, I mean I think you
know it's really someone that's observant. It's gonna be a
great if you're an observant person, if you're a curious person,
and you're a conscientious person, you're gonna be a good cop.
Like it doesn't matter if you do plane clothes or
if you do patrol. You know, I watched a lot
of guys on patrol that were great cops that want
(28:47):
nothing to do with being plain close police officers. That's fun.
They liked their tour, they liked what they did. They
were good cops and and you know, and they had
good careers. And I learned a lot from guys like that.
And then I watch guys like come through patrol that
they wanted like me, they wanted to be in plain clothes.
And you know, I always help those guys to groom them,
to teach them what to do and how to act,
(29:10):
and what arrest you want to make and how to
make those arrests, and you know, and a lot of
case law and what we can do, what we can't do.
You know what I mean, Keep yourself safe, not get
yourself jammed up and run around like an idiot and
just make an arrest for an arrest, you know what
I mean? Because I always I always hated that, you know,
because again I had it deployed on me. So I
was like, I never really I never really bought into
(29:32):
that whole numbers for numbers game. I was always like
quality over quantity. And you know, if you're out there,
if you're out there every night and you know your stuff,
you're gonna get lucky and you're gonna find stuff. And
even as a sergeant I did, I did the same thing,
you know, like a sergeant, I did plain clothes work.
I remember one night we were up on Eighth Avenue
in Brooklyn and we had like a cab. It was
(29:53):
a Chevy Apollo, but we dressed it up like a
Mexican cab because we were on the border of like
Sunset and Borough Park on a yeah Avenue, predominantly Chinese neighborhood,
and we had a pattern of Hispanic males coming down.
They were Hispanic males seventeen to thirty two like around there.
Like we just had some grainy videos at the time
because remember video wasn't that prevalent most of my career.
(30:15):
They know, the cell phone video, the cell phone photo,
they were just invented when I became a cop and
they were real grainy and they weren't that good. But
we had an idea that it was Hispanic males robbing
Chinese women of their purses. Right, they would either it
either be a grand loss any snatch or if she
fell or if she fought, it would turn into a robbery.
So it was up on ad Avenue. One night. I
(30:37):
had a younger kid with me. I was training him
on how to do plain clothes work, and we were
just sitting in the cab with it all. It was
pitch black. We had tints on the car and we
were just sitting in there, watching, observing, and we would
buy a location where there were no stores in the area.
There were no stores, there were no trains, there were
no buses, and you know, we observed three Hispanic males
and the three males were casing women as they were by.
(31:00):
Who's not paying attention and nobody's noticing them except for me,
And I'm like, oh, these are the guys. They're gonna
they're gonna run, They're gonna rob a woman when she
comes by. And sure enough, you know, women comes by unsuspecting.
She got like a nice Versaci bag. She's coming walking
down the block and she's on her cell phone and
as she's walking, she's walking this way on eighth Avenue,
a patrol car starts coming in the opposite direction. So
(31:23):
immediately upon that, these kids were walking towards her, they
see the patrol car, they turn around, they walk back right. So,
I'm like, one hundred percent these kids are gonna rob somebody, right,
So I was like, listen, you know when when they
do it, we have to grab them because of mind you,
I need probable cause. If I stopped them right there,
I have no arrest there's nothing. I can't arrest them
for anything. Oh you look like you were going to
(31:43):
arrest them. I could stop them and identify them. But
is that really what we want to do? Or do
we want to solve the pattern?
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Right?
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Do we want to solve what it is? I want?
I want to I want probable calls on them so
that I could bring them in. I could question them,
I could close out the rest of the robberies that happened, right, So,
and I would have brought them in for anything. If
they would have smoked weed, if they would have littered,
I would arrested them and brought them in. But they
didn't do any of that. They were just standing there
and then another female comes walking down the block, and
(32:12):
this time they're gonna do it. No nobody's come in,
there's no patrol car come in the opposite direction, and
nobody's really around anymore because all the businesses are closed
and we're more towards like the industrial part of it.
And you know, they start to run up on her
and the kid. The went's new throws the car and
drive hm. They hear the engine, they turn around and
now I'm like, stop them, So we stop them. They
(32:34):
have nothing on them. I'm like, what are you guys doing.
They're like, you know, I totally do a frisk on
them because I'm like, I'm not getting shot my face tonight.
I don't know that these kids don't have a gun
or they don't have a knife. First them. They have
nothing on them, right, I'm not searching them for a
bag of weed in their pocket. I don't care. I
could care less about that. And and you know it's
not although I, like I said, I would lock them
up something like that because I know what they're doing.
(32:57):
I know what they're doing. They're not there to smoke
a joint. Then night there they had to rob people.
So when I question them, they don't even know where
they are. I'm like, what are you doing here? Oh,
I'm waiting for my friends? And I'm like, where's your
friend live? I'm like, where are you right now? Don't know?
Kids live in Harlem, you know. I'm like, listen, I
know what you're doing here. They start, they break down,
they're crying. I take their names down, give it to
(33:18):
the squad. At that point, do a UF two fifty
on them, which is a stop question first form. I
let them go, but aid who possibly has been doing
these robberies? Right? And like, that's plain clothes work, right,
That's what it is. You're identifying who's out there doing
bad things, who the players are. But you have to know,
you have to study. If you're not reading every day,
(33:41):
and and you know an FYI, the police Department's not
going to give you time to do this. So I
would do this all on my own time. I'd come
in early to work every day, read all the sixty ones,
read all the complaint reports, know what they're doing. And
that's how I was effective in those jobs.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
And Taylor made you for what would come next as
a sergeant. That twelve because I mean, you're having a ball.
It's it's I could see it even it's it's been
so many years since those cases and since those arrests,
but you're still recalling it with the same excitement I
imagine you had at the time. So you could have
stayed in this role your whole career, and I imagine
you would have been just as content, But you end
up getting promoted and you end up going to the
(34:17):
six six originally in twenty twelve. So I'll ask you,
what made you want to study for the sergeants test?
What made you originally want to be a boss?
Speaker 2 (34:25):
So you know, you got you gotta think, like the
politics in New York City has never been great to
be a police officer. So you know, I'm making a
lot of arrests, and my team's making a lot of arrests,
and every time I go down to the District Attorney's office,
it's a problem, like literally every time, so like I
have to call the borough chief to get them to
(34:46):
draw out my cases, right, and and it was like
getting ridiculous, and and you know, the sergeants and the priests,
like it's always you John, nobody else has a problem.
It's always you and I'm like, but I make these
these crazy arrests that these people don't make, Like I
make a lot of different arrests than people make. And
it's always like, you're not a detective, why are you
(35:06):
making this arrest? I'm like, what does that matter? I
feel I did all the steps, I got you all
of the evidence. What do you want to do? So
one instance in particular that I was like, I'm done, Like,
I'm not, I can't do this anymore. I have to
become a sergeant, Like I've just reached the pinnacle of
being a cop. I had gotten an interview for detective Squad,
(35:26):
but I was young, and you know, I did well
on the interview. They really liked me because of my arrest.
And the guy's like, listen, I'm just gonna be honest
with you. You're way too young. You're not getting it. I
got a lot of guys waiting, they've been doing anti
crime and he's like, and honestly, he goes, if you
want Ganga Knarco, I'll give it to you right now.
And this is after that situation, and I was already
going to be a sergeant. I was like, listen, I'm
going to be a sergeant. I'm not really looking to
move anymore at this point, but I want the investigative experience.
(35:48):
That's why I'm here. But the instance that drove me
to want to be a sergeant is this is a
nine to one one call. We're driving and just out
of luck, we happened to be right where there's a
home invasion. Cale Mail does a push, Right Mail does
a push and robbery. I don't know why. We were
(36:08):
literally right there, and so when it came over nine
one one, I'm like, oh, excuse me. We're like, oh,
oh crap, you know, and we I'm was like a
patrol car was also right there. So they they pull
up to the front of this this monstrous house in
the one two three right off of the expressway. So
I'm like, go around the back. We drive around the back,
(36:29):
and as we come around the back, kids coming over
the fence. It's coming over the fence. We take him down.
He's got a girl book bag on, he's got all
the property on him. And what happened was is so
I talked to the girl that was home. She was
home by herself. She was like a fourteen fifteen year
old girl summer break, parents will work, parents are doctors.
She's like, I got a knock on the door, and
(36:50):
the guy told me that he had a car accident.
Wanted to use the phone, and I said no, and
he grabbed me and pushed me down. Now she was
a big girl, she was actually a little bit taller
than me. She fought him off and ran, and as
she ran, she still had a phone in the hand
because she was on the phone when he when he
came in, so she called nine to one one. We
just happened to be right there. So anyway, he goes
(37:13):
upstairs when she runs away, and starts to grab jewelry
out of the mother's room, puts it in a bag,
grab some stuff out of her room. And now he's
running because he is he hears the cops come and
here's the sirens like, and so we grabbed him coming
over the fence. So now I had remembered that the
girl said. He said he crashed his car. So I'm like,
do me a favor, go drive back around on the expressway.
(37:36):
So we drive back down on the expressway and there's
a Volkswagen Beetle, like a newer one at the time,
smashed up a below where we're right below where this
girl's house is. She's on the top of the expressway,
and so I go there. He there's the key for
the bug he had in for the Volkswagen bug he
had in his pocket. Put it in. Boom, it's the
(37:57):
car right. Car doesn't start, but I could get in
the from it. So I was like, all right, this
is the car. So run the plate plate comes back
to a woman's house. Go to her house. She's not home.
Neighbor comes out. I'm like, hey, listen. He's like, is
everything okay? He sees two plain, two burly plain close
guys and looking around knocking on the door. I was like,
(38:19):
do you know where your neighbor is? And he's like,
is everything all right? I said, you know, I think
I have her car. I have a false wagon bug
and I'm pretty sure I have a car, and I
want to see if she gave it permission to anyone
or if it's stolen. And he's like, well, she works
at the South Beach Psychiatric Center. So now I got
to drive over the South Beach Psychiatric Center. I drive
all the way over the other side of the stan
Isle and I go there and I get in contact
(38:41):
with a woman and she's like, is everything okay? And
I was like, uh, do you have permission? Does anyonna
have permission to have your car? She's like, no, my
car's in the parking lot. I was like, yeah, no,
it's not so. So now I have him on I
have him on a home invasion, I have him on
a robbery, I have him on assault, I have him
on Grand lost pettit lost me him on GLA. Right.
(39:02):
So I go to draw that case up. That case
should be in no brainer, right. I go to draw
it up. There's no GLA on there. There's no one
authorized use of the vehicle on this. So I was like, what,
let me ask you something. Why is there no one authorizes? Oh,
we can't prove that. He had to call and let
me back let me let me back up one second
with this. So everybody I ever arrested, I would always
(39:23):
do the same thing. I would say, listen, he is
your opportunity to tell the judge what you want to
tell them, if you're truly sorry. Now, this kid had
ten robberies. He knows he's going to jail. Like he's
going to jail. Most people don't go to jail in
New York City. This kid knows he's going to jail,
you know what I mean. He might not if it
was his first or second or third time, he might
not have went to jail for that either. But this
is about his ten time doing things. He's right, this
(39:46):
kid's going to jail. Like it doesn't matter. This is
pre Floyd, this is pre all these criminal justice reformed.
He knows he's got a problem. So I would always
say the same thing. You know you gotta you know you,
this is your opportunity to tell the judge. I'd read
them the rights. I'd read them Miranda. I'd have them
sign off on Miranda, and I'd give him a pen
and paper, and he writes the whole thing. My mother
sent me to rehab. You know I went instead of
(40:09):
going to rehab, I smoked angel dust. I walked around
the parking lot. I found this one car open. I
found the key inside the car. I stole the car.
He admits to the GLA. So I'm like, I have
a confession. Now. The bureau chief for the DA's office
is like, how do I know that you didn't put
a gun to his head to get him to confess
to that, And I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Man.
(40:31):
I was like, this is ridiculous. I was like, you're
drawing the gla up. He's like, I'm not drawing it up.
I was like, you're drawing it up. He's like, I
promise you I'm not. I was like, I promise you are.
And this was like constantly what I would deal with.
So like I would deal with this every time I
made an arrest. And so you know, end of the day,
they wind up drawing it up. But it was like
it was a constant fight. And even that day I
(40:53):
had like a I had drugs on him. He had
all this stuff. I'm in the middle, in the middle
of vouchering everything, right, I have a ton of stuff.
And every time I would ever go up to the desk,
like I would do search warrants, get drugs. I was
proficient in vouchering drugs, like very proficient. And as a sergeant,
(41:13):
I was a stickler for vouchering drugs because I was like,
I understood that prisoners and property will get you jammed up.
On this job. You have to be it has to
be perfect, yeah, right, So I understood how to vouch
your drugs because I did it every single day, even
the days I didn't make arrest, I would vouch your drugs,
and every day I would bring it up to the desk.
(41:34):
The desk officer would be scared to sign off on
my drugs, my crime. My anti crime sergeant was a
great guy, but he was always in the wind, so
we would always leave me. He was supposed to be
there to sign all my stuff, but he was always
out gallivanted around and I was always left to deal
with like the younger sergeants who are on the desk,
and they would never know how to sign on is
(41:54):
this right? Is that I don't think this is right?
And then looking and then that one day I was
just so fed up. I was like, I can't take
this anymore. I have to study. I have to be
a sergeant. There was a test already announced and I
just that was it. I just studied every day after work,
about four hours a day plus. I attended two different classes.
And then even at break at work, all I did
(42:17):
was like flip flip cards. And I was like, I
have to be a sergeant, not one for the money,
but two because I'm I can't. I just I've grown
past this.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
I just can't do this anymore right now, and I
don't blame it. Real quick, I'm happy to see him
in the chat. I haven't seen him in chat a
little bit. Scott Wagner retired and MYPD detective originally the
New York City Housing Police, was also a member of
hostas negotiation. Good to see if my friend makes my
heart happy to see I hope well as well. We'll
have to catch up soon. But no, I don't blame
you for that frustration, because it's like, listen, I remember
something Billy Kennedy told me. He was a sergeant the
(42:47):
NYPD Emergency Service suit against same concept. You're tired of
dealing with it, you might as well become it. Not
because you're going to imitate the same pattern of behavior,
but because, listen, you know what aggravates the hard working cops.
You want to put yourself in a issu as someone
who could relate to them, were as the boss. Since
you know what ticked you off, now you won't do it.
Now you'll be able to have a greater control over
(43:07):
these things and be able to help the cops and
have the same philosophy as you and operate the same
way you do. And I imagine even if you were
a stickler, your cops loved you for that.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
No. Yeah, I mean my everybody I ever worked with,
even the guys that didn't love me at first, always
you know till today, they still love me. You know,
because like when I did come in, I brought that
same mentality when I went to Brooklyn. Now you know,
everyone's like, oh, you have a rabbi, that's how you
got to the six sixth person. I don't know anybody
on this job. I didn't know anybody on this job.
I knew the people that I worked with in the
(43:37):
one two oh, and I knew the people that I
worked with in the one two three, and a lot
of people that I worked with or worked around during
that time, like me. They took a liking to me, Like,
all right, this guy's a hard work of Somebody in
Narco was having a problem in the one two three,
they called me. If somebody in the one two I
was having a problem the one to three, they called me.
So I was like the go to guy. So but
like being a sergeant, same thing, you pick, but I
(43:58):
think this time you picked butts. I don't know if
I picked presints. But six six definitely was never on
the list because I didn't even even though I lived
in the six two, which boarded the six sticks, I
didn't even remember that that presint. I didn't know anything
about it. I think the precinct closest that I picked
in in Brooklyn was seven two, the seven two precint Sunset,
where my grandmother lived, and I spent a lot of time,
(44:19):
so I was very familiar with the area. And I
was like, Oh, that'd be cool. It's right over the bridge,
you know. And and I wind up getting the sixty
sixth precint, and and you know, coming from Staten Island.
Now I'm like, you know, I'm probably gonna have to
learn a lot because I never really was dealing with this.
I was in the one two three and a slower precinct.
And and what I found out is and you know,
and and being in the one two three, I moved
(44:41):
from anti crime to field intelligence. I was doing field intelligence,
search warrants, uh, signing up cis, doing stuff like that.
So but what I learned is I still thought that
I was going to be back because now I'm going
to Brooklyn, you know, and so and you know, it's
just the the the unknown. And when I get there,
I'm like, wow, I I know more than only sergeants
(45:01):
like you know, and it's not a knock on any
of the guys, but like as far as like proactive
police work, I understood how to get things done. And
then I took that into being a patrol sergeant right away.
I was on four to twelves again for a very
short time. I was given a conditions team and I
was basically given the run of the mill to do that.
(45:21):
You know, we operate as an anti crime team and
playing clothes. I was able to pick my own guys,
and I operated on that scene on that same wavelength
that I did as a cop. I wanted to keep
my commanding officer looking in the good graces of the
entire police department. I wanted whatever issue he was having,
that was my issue. If somebody, if somebody was breaking
(45:43):
into cars, breaking into houses, if somebody was robbing people,
somebody was doing anything, I'm going to be the guy
that's going to figure that out and go out there.
Me and my guys are going to go out there.
And so, I mean, you know, it really was it
really was a great time to be a cop man.
It just it just really was.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
And what's interesting about the sixty six two is that
it's Borough Park, but not just the community in Borough Park.
You got so many religious institutions there, you know, which
is difficult to manage because again crimes against houses, a warship,
factors such as that. But it really teaches you. If
there was you talked earlier about the politics at York
City Police Department, if there was ever a time where
you were taught how to mingle with different clergy heads
(46:20):
or different political figures involved in that particular section of
the city, the six six is a heck of a
polace to learn.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
Oh yeah, man, like the political like I didn't know how.
Like literally my first day there, there's an old desgeant
Dad and he's like, hey, you pick up the phone, kid,
you know, he had like thirty years on. I pick
up the phone. It's Chief Asposito, you know, and I'm like, holy,
what the hell's going on here? Like you know what
I mean? And it's like that's how politically connected that
preason is. But for me, like I I you know,
(46:47):
I grew up pretty humble. I grew up in humble means,
and like you know, my father was a Vietnam vet,
you know, had a hard time like holding down jobs.
My mother was a school cross in guard. So we
never had much money. And my mother would always like
make this line about all the wise guys in the neighborhood.
You would always say, oh, yeah, look at him in
his fancy rolex. That and the dollar fifty, He'll get
you on the bus whatever the price was at the time.
(47:09):
So and I always had that in my head that
I was never better than anybody, and nobody is better
than anybody. So like I met like head rabbi and
head this, and the mayor and this guy, but I
always treated everybody the same. Like that was my ethos
in life. I took that into policing. Like I said,
I always acted on the whim of how would I
(47:31):
want my mother to be treated, how would I expect
a police officer to handle himself in this situation. So
you know, I never really gave in. And again I
didn't ask to go there, So it wasn't like you
were dangling me being in the six six over my head.
I really didn't care. I was like and I had
issues with people at times, and I didn't fold and
sometimes I thought I was going to get transferred, and
(47:52):
I didn't because I always took from a righteous standpoint,
you know what I mean. I'm like, I'm trying to
do the right thing here. I'm a cop. I don't
care who you are or who you know. And I'm
not going to be intimidated by that call whoever the
hell you want to call, and I'll gladly talk to them,
you know. And and I and I did that, and
I was like, you know, listen, I'm not being a
hard ass. This is what this is what happened. This
(48:13):
guy's on their arrest, and and that's it. I respect you,
I respect your position, but you know, you have to
respect me. I'm not putting my cops in arms way,
and I'm not there's no favor that could be done here,
you know what I mean. And and like I kind
of hardline that way, and you know, and and the
community really embraced me for that, everybody, like all all
of the highly connected political figures, because you know why,
(48:35):
they knew that when they had a problem in the community,
when somebody was robbing somebody, when someone was breaking into cars,
breaking in the houses, they knew that I was out
there hunting for them, So you know, I might not
be their cup of tea, where you know I'm going
to fold to you and pull my pants down and
bend over, but I'm also going to be the guy
you call when you have a problem, and and so
(48:56):
you know, I did pretty well there. But it was
definitely a learning situation, and it was definitely a politically motivated,
politically driven presint and I navigated those waters I thought flawlessly, honestly,
not to pap myself on the back, but you know, I.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Think I think that prepared you too for something even
more of a melting pot of iab and I go
back to the interview I had a couple weeks ago
Commissioner Harrison, which, by the way, thank you to you two,
meaning you and Eric, because you guys mentioned that interview.
I got a lot of views on that. So as
soon as I saw the jump, I'm like, thanks to
the finest unfiltered baby. But you know, he called it
a necessary evil because it's not the desired assignment, but
(49:31):
again because of how charged the environment it is. Listen,
you want some veteran cops in there, then understand the
workings of the NYPD and also understand. Listen, if a
guy didn't do it, he didn't do it, let's not
jam him up. But if a guy did it or
a gal did it, well, listen, there's prices today because
there's integrity to keep two years there from fifteen to seventeen,
when you first got a signed there, you know, was
your reaction in adverse one or were you like, listen,
(49:53):
you know what, it may not be what I had
in mind, but listen, let's do it. Let's let's be
full on one hundred percent again.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
Like I didn't know anybody, like really, Like I had
known the CEOs I had worked for at the time,
and I've known like a couple of people, but they
really weren't high ranking, so like I would have never
I was just like, it is what it is. Like
you try to get to where you want to go
and it doesn't work out, and I'm there and I'm like,
you know what it is, what it is. Maybe it's
a good thing, you know, maybe it's a good thing
for me. It'll be a learning experience. I'll learn something
(50:21):
I didn't know. I feared internal affairs as a cop
and even as a sergeant, Like you know, I didn't
want to get in trouble by them. You know. I
was like, you know, I had some interactions with them,
and and you know, and and and and in my instances,
they helped me more than they hurt me. I had
a lot of like frivolous nonsense happened, and a lot
(50:41):
of frivolous claims that they cleared up for me. And
I was like wow, but I was like scared. I
was like, wow, that this person is saying that I
burned them on a radiator, like crazy stuff. And you know,
IB went out immediately did this call. And I realized
that they helped me because if it wasn't for IB,
and I was in some like small hick town, who
gets that call that I burned somebody on an oven,
(51:03):
Like that's going right to the DA's office and with
no investigation being done from anyone who understands who I'm
dealing with, or how policing works or what they're even saying,
you know. And so like I was like, you know what,
they cleared up a lot of stuff for me. So
I didn't really have a dislike of them, But it
wasn't it wasn't like a desired position. It wasn't something
I would have thought, but I was like, hey, I'll
(51:24):
make the best of it. It's when I got there
that I hated it. It's when I got there. So
what happens is I don't go into an IB group again.
Everything on the NYPD is like, who you know? I
don't know anybody in IB. I don't know anybody at
the time, And so people go become investigators, right, And
(51:44):
so they go to groups and they don't have half
of the policing experience or amount of arrest I do.
They send them to be investigators, and they send me
to like be the supervisor to oversee the command center.
And the command center's basically like this huge hub call
center that's complete understaffed, and they get a few hundred
allegations against cops or anything. We even get. They even
(52:07):
get calls about the fire department, they get calls about
the mayor, they get you know, they get some lunatics
that call thirty times a day, you know, and like
it's just this and what you're doing is you have
to do the intake, and you have to make sure
that a report's taken, an early initial investigations taken. And
so I get transferred there I get sent for my
(52:27):
first drug test immediately, where they basically shave half my
leg and I'm like, oh, this is great. And then
they send me to Manhattan. Nobody would tell me where
I'm assigned. I eventually get to Manhattan. I get there
and I have no idea what I'm doing. First time.
I walk into the command center, right, and I walk
in there and there's a girl sitting there, sergeant, and
she's like, oh, you just got a signed here. I'm like, yeah,
(52:47):
what do I do? She's like, just stay here, and
she gets up and leaves right. And so I'm sitting
at this desk, the phone's ring in, There's people all
over the place. Some detective comes over to me. He's like, hey, boss,
I take lost time. I'm like, well, I don't even
know who you are. I just got here. Get away
from me. Get away from me. Like, don't do that,
like you know. And he's like looking at me. I'm like, yeah,
(53:08):
don't do that. Get away from me, right, and and
and and so he goes sits down and this like
tall screwny guy comes like walking in the command center
screaming what do you do? When he's screaming directly at me,
and I'm like, this guy's got to be pretty high rank.
Everybody in here is petrified, right, And so I'm like,
I'm getting screened that I'm starving. I haven't eaten anything.
(53:29):
I just got my leg shaved. I have no idea
where I am or what's going on. I'm like, why
is this guy yelling at me? And my whole thing
is like I'm just not gonna stop looking at him
until he stops, right Like, so, I'm just looking him
in the face. He's screaming at me, why are these
phone calls not being answer? Blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah. And he just goes on this
tirade and I'm just staring at him the whole time.
And then when he finishes, I'm like, hey, how you doing,
(53:50):
Soger McCarry next to me, I just got a sign
to you, and he shakes his head, he turns around,
he walks away. So I'm like, who the who the
F was that? And They're like, oh, that was a
chief and I was a right whatever, so you know.
And then anyway, I learned the lay of the land
in there, and it was a pretty like it was
a pretty frustrating time. I was like, I definitely had
an ego about who I was and about who my
(54:11):
career was with the direction my career should go in
or where I thought I should be at by that
point in my career. But it was a humbling experience.
But it taught me a lot of like computer stuff,
a lot of like how to how to generate reports better,
how to write better. So I learned a lot, and
I learned how to manage this like weird, unique animal,
(54:34):
and I actually made it a lot better than it
was when I first walked in the door. So from
that point they made me like I had a million
different titles in there. I was like, I was in
charge of assessment, so I would assess all of the
complaints that would come in and I would say where
they should go, like what groups should get them. If
(54:55):
the investigator didn't investigate properly, I'd send it back to
them to I want to know this, I want to
know that, I want to know this. I also was
in charge of ib records, and I was the CCRB liaison.
There's only one in the NYPD, and it was me,
And my job at the time was to ensure that
CCRB only got what they were entitled to get. And
(55:16):
I held that line. I held that line like there
was a lot of times the mayor had my name
on his desk, or the Police commission I had my
name on his desk, or the Chief of Internal Affairs
had my name on that desk. But I held that line.
And I always got at a boy for that because
I didn't back down, you know. I was like, I'm no,
this is what you're entitled to get. This is weekend
call whoever you got to call. Yeah, No, I don't, Yeah,
have them call me, you know. And and I held
(55:36):
that line, and I did pretty well with that as well.
I made sure that they got in a timely fashion
what they were entitled to get. And at the same
time I also made when they were trying to overreach,
I was like, Nope, you're not gotting that. So I
learned a lot there. I couldn't wait to get out
of there. I won't lie, but I learned a lot there.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
But yeah, and you know, even though it was a
two years stretch only, it was two years that certainly
taught you a lot.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
Know.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Again, It's as Commissioner Harrison said, and then we kind
of elaborate it on here in this conversation. It isn't
necessarily evil, you know why it's there. I mean, there's
been jokes about it, even on television. I can remember
an episode of Long Order from nineteen ninety six where
the opening scene refers to IAB as the Red Squad,
you know, So it has that kind of reputation. But
I like having guys on the show who've worked there,
(56:20):
because again, it gives you a glimpse into what they
do and why they do it. And just as important
as nabbing somebody who did something wrong, like you said earlier,
is clearing somebody who didn't do anything wrong. And that's
another part of the reason why IB is there, and
it's important to remember that. So you talked about learning
computers kind of segues perfectly into twenty seventeen Bureau of
Management Services, because now again you're taking into account everything
(56:41):
citywide operations, the fleet. You know, of course, how many
personnel you have assigned to a given unit. If there's
a special detail going on, how many personnel do we
want deployed there. It's really kind of I liken it
to a bird on a roof as a view of
the whole city. That's when I think of what I
think about the Bureau of Management Services. So again, you know,
I don't know it was something you necessarily desired. I
know you were eager to leave IAB, and you did,
(57:04):
But was it the same thing where in terms of
you got there, it wasn't desirable at first, but you
turned it into something good like you did with IAB.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
So what happens is, you know, I'm in IAB. I
had kept in close contact with one of my sergeants
in the one, two three, right, and he was a
great guy. He was the intel sergeant. I was his assistant, right,
So I had put together a lot of stuff for him,
right like I would put together you know, who the
perps were in the command, I would put together the
crime patterns. I would do all this before the NYPD
(57:32):
was kind of generating this stuff, you know what I mean.
I would I would run all these leads online checks.
I had like all system and I set up all
these different charts and all these different things and able
to see, like give a bird's eye view of the
crimes we were taking at that time. So now I'm
in IB. You have to do two year commitment in IB.
And so the day that my two years hits, it's
(57:56):
the weirdest thing, Like he doesn't know that it's my
two years, but he calls me. I'm late at work
again because I have piles and piles of work on
my desk, you know. And my old sergeant calls me.
He's like, John, do you want to come to build
a maintenance? They just made me the commanding officer. It's
a complete disaster. I don't know where anything is. I
(58:16):
need your help. I'll get you out of IB. And
I'm like, yeah, get me out because I can't get out.
I don't know how to get out. I don't know
anybody like you know what I mean. And I'm like,
where do how do I get out of IB? It's
like a whole nother thing. You need a deputy commissioner
to sign off on that. So I'm like, yeah, get
me out. I'll come over that, you know. I'm like,
what do you need me to do? He's like, I
need you to do everything. He's like, I just need
(58:37):
you here. Would you come? I said yeah, and he goes,
there's a ton of overtime you got to take home.
Speaker 3 (58:42):
Car.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
I was like okay, you know, so I go. I go, literally,
I hang up the phone. I go into my chief's office.
I was like, uh, you know, chief, today's my two years.
How do I get out? He's like, you're not getting out.
I put you in for the money. We're going to
give you the SDS money. I was like, I appreciate it,
I don't want it. I know I want to go
work with my body over there and I'm going to
(59:03):
be a lieutenant. And he's like, the test didn't even
come out yet. I'm like, when it comes out, I'm
going to pass it. I said, you know, I said
it's it hasn't come out yet, but when it does,
I'm going to pass it. I'm going to go there
for a little while and help him out. And I
was like, honestly, I really don't want to be a
career IB guy, no offense to you. I said, I
did everything you guys asked me. I think I did
a great job here, and and I you know, I
would appreciate it. I'd like to go, you know, I'd
(59:23):
like to go. I'd like to leave now. And and
basically I got screwed for about eight months until I
got out and they sent me to every detail, changed
my tool every day, but I just sucked it up.
I was like, listen, this is what I got to
deal with. I got to deal with. And I eventually
get over to building maintenance, and again another huge learning
experience for me. I have to learn the contracts. I
have to learn about building. I have to learn like
(59:45):
I you know, I look pretty handy, so I know things,
but I don't know everything right. And so now I'm
dealing with every different trade union across the city, the
Carpenter's union, the Plumber's union, you know, and and now
is instead imagining just cops, I'm also so managing a
lot of civilians, you know. And I'm overseeing some big
projects like the little police hub and Times Square. I was,
(01:00:08):
I was. I was a key part of that. I
oversaw the changes and all the police ranges and a
lot of different projects that, you know, construction projects that
the NYPD was involved in, the new precints they were building.
I was in the early phases of it. I was
in a lot of the later phases of those buildings
I just mentioned because I had just got there and
they were already in development. But like the one sixteen
(01:00:28):
and all the stuff that are just unrolling out now.
I was involved in the initial planning and all of
that of those that stuff. So it was a great,
great experience. Again, I was making a lot of money.
It was a demanding job. You know. People think that
that job's easy. That's one of the hardest jobs I
ever had. You're on call all the time, you know. So,
like I would go home, I would get home. It
(01:00:50):
was far from my house. It was all the way
in Woodside, Queens. I would get home, and I wasn't
allowed to keep the car in my house. I had
to keep the car by a priests in which was
a little far from my house. Good thing I lived
in the city, but it was still a ride. And
there would be times I'm home two, two, three in
the morning. Hey the heat's off. I need somebody here.
I got to run out, you know, something exploded in
the precinct. I got to run out, you know. And
(01:01:11):
so like, it's a demanding job. So I'm overseeing a
few hundred facilities, lease facilities and owned facilities, and I'm
ensuring that they all operate on a twenty four to
seven basis while overseeing all the contracts putting them in
and when I got to IAB, when I excuse me,
when I got to building maintenance, they didn't know how
many projects they were working on. So I was like,
(01:01:34):
wait a minute, time out, how many projects does each
person have? And they couldn't help me. So I'm like,
where's the central hub for where all the projects are?
They're like, there is none. I'm like, are you kidding me?
So what I did there was I helped build this
system where not only could you put in a work
order if you were at a precint and the toilet
(01:01:55):
bowl clogged or you needed bulbs or whatever the hell
you did, I also built a system where every single
project manager would put their projects in there and it
would and their expenses, so you knew up to date
where the project was, and they basically wrote in there
like ECMS, like the Enterprise Case Management System like detectives
(01:02:15):
work in, or like ib investigators work in, where they
detail their day out like by doing like DD fives
like reports on what I did, so it'd be like,
all right, I went to this construction meeting and I
just labeled it out the same way that I had
seen it in the ECMS when I was in a
field intelligence and the same way I had seen it
in IAB overseeing all of that stuff. So I basically
(01:02:38):
mirrrored that system for buildings so that in the moment's
notice you got, you know, the deputy commissioner management budget
or the police commissioners going to a hearing with city council.
They know exactly what's happening, how it's happening, how what's
the timeline and up to date info on anything that's
happening that's relevant because again a lot of these projects
stem from city council. What's going on with this, what's
(01:03:01):
going on with that? So you know I had I
was right in the midst of that when I did
like I told the chief I was going to do,
I passed the lieutenant's test and I got called for lieutenant.
But I also got called right or in the height
of cold.
Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Yeah, that was that was That was an interesting point
in your career. But I will ask before I segue
into that. I mean, again, it is a learning experience.
You're doing a lot. You're understanding a different component of
the operations of the NYPD from IAB into this. But
you loved the street previously. You had a great time
in the street was there ever a desire. I know,
you promised your buddy you'd help them out. Was there
(01:03:37):
ever a desire to go back to the street or
were you just passed that, you know, emotion in your career.
Were you onto something else?
Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Man? No, I mean that's that was the basis of
me studying. I was like, I knew I didn't know anybody.
I had made whatever connections I made, and so I
was like, all right, I want to move up in
my career. My ultimate goal was to be a priest
and commander and then rise from there. So I wanted
to get back to the street because things were bypassing me.
Because when I left the street, we weren't wearing body cameras.
(01:04:06):
When when and now I want to get back to
the street. They wearing body cameras. They're doing reports that
I never did. And so I'm the kind of guy
and I'm and mind you, I'm going to detail so
and I stay in contact with everybody, so I know
what's happening, but I have to do things myself to
understand them. You can't tell me you're cand be the
best teacher in the world. I'm not learning it. I
have to do it. Myself. So I'm like, I want
(01:04:28):
to get back out there. I learn these different functions,
I learned these different phases. I'm good out there. I'm
real I'm good in here, but I'm awesome out there,
and I love it out there, and and and I
wanna and I want to. So that was like the
basis of me studying was to get back out onto
the street, get out there as a lieutenant so that
when I make cap and I have a full wide
(01:04:50):
range of experience, and I'm gonna I'm gonna institute all
the knowledge I have to get myself to be a
commanding officer of whatever priestant in the city, I'll I'll
be privileged enough to get.
Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
And again, you know, it's kind of like you don't
want to be the dinosaur of the job either, you know,
because again, whispers happen in general. I'll look at that
old timer, why doesn't he go he doesn't get it
or she doesn't get it? Your type of got you,
And I'm the same exact way. I need It's one
thing to see it. I am partially a visual learner.
I need to get repeated reps at it. And when
I don't get those repeated reps. I get very frustrated
because I don't have a good chance to really learn it.
(01:05:24):
So you know, I understand that one hundred and ten percent.
But unfortunately for you and for everybody around this time
in the New York City Police Department, everything's on hold.
I mean, granted you're out on the street, a lot
is happening. It's first the you know, the quarantine, then
the riots. So it's really one of the worst years
the NYPD has had this century. I think the only
worst year the NYPD has had is two thousand and
(01:05:45):
one because of nine to eleven, but this one is
a very close to number two. But when I say
everything's on hold, I mean goals for people's careers where
they want to advance to, maybe for promotions. So you're
trying to juggle that. You're trying to juggle your own health.
You have a fan to worry about at this point.
How much was you know, I talked about this with Eric,
I'll talk about it with you. I know it was
(01:06:05):
a world win year for him. How much of a
world win was that for you? It had to be frustrating,
Oh it was.
Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
It was a mess man. So you know, COVID hits
right around March March twenty twenty, and I get promoted
to lieutenant April twenty twenty, so I'm the first class,
Like they need lieutenants out there, right, So so what
happens is now I go, I go, I go back
into I don't even go to Bemock. I don't even
(01:06:34):
like bemck is like it's like the management training. It's
like where for sergeants and lieutenant for sergeants and lieutenants? Right,
So I don't even go to be Mock. They just
asked me like, oh, where do you want to go?
And I'm like Staten Island or Brooklyn South. Next thing,
I know where am I going? I'm going to the
one two three prison I had and now buying you.
By this time, I know everybody in the job. Like,
(01:06:56):
by this time, I know a lot of people. I
got a call from the seven to COO the time,
do you want to come here? I said, please, don't
ask for me. I'm going to do a year in
the street and I'm going to try to get the
detective squad and I'm going to study for captain. Don't
ask for me. I don't want to owe anybody favors.
Let me just fall where I fall. I had seven
to two six eight TD one Transit District thirty two,
(01:07:19):
like all of these great commands, commands, great commands one
two two, Where where I lived? Everybody one two? Oh,
I'm like, nobody call for me. I'm like, and I'm
like literally sitting there on the phone like for hours,
and my wife's like, what's the matter. And I was like,
I was like, I think I'm destroying my career. I said.
Every place I've ever wanted to work is calling me
(01:07:39):
right now and asking me if I could come there.
I said, but I really, I just don't want to
owe anybody a favor, Like I just don't want I
just want to I just want to go out do
what I gotta do, and I want to put in
I want to do a year back on patrol. I
want to learn patrol again, and I want to try
to get to that squad like I want to try
to get that investigative experience. And then I'm studying for
captain and I want I want so now I'll have
touch every piece of the police department other than the
(01:08:02):
su right, but I'll have a well rounded knowledge of
the job. The entire job, right like and for like
to be an executive, you know, on the job. And
so I just get the one two three and I'm
all excited and the CEO calls me and everybody calls me,
and he's like basically telling me I'm going to be
the special Operations lieutenant. And I'm all excited because now
(01:08:23):
I'm like, Wow, that's how's that for full circle? Right?
I was crime guy there, I was a field intelligence officer,
and now I'm the sol you know, and homecoming and
the CEO of bill de Maintenance at the time of
that call pulled me over, is now the CEO of
Facilities Management, who's like the overseeing like one PP. And
he calls me and he's like, well, where'd you get?
(01:08:43):
And I was like, I'm going to the one two three, Bro,
I'm bringing all my stuff to my locker. He's like, no, no, no, no,
you're not going there. I was like, yeah, no, I'm
going there, dude. He's like, no, no, no, you're not. Bro.
He's like, we we retained you. I was like, now
I have the orders, bro, I'm going right now. And
he's like, nah, you're not. He's like, trust me, you're
not going there. He's like, I'm just giving you the
heads up you're not going there. And I was like,
I was like all right, He's like the UK. I
(01:09:03):
was like no. I was like, you know, I was like, well,
it is what it is what I you know, I
was like, what's mad. He's like, you know, we're in
the middle of building this thing. It's COVID the inventory.
He's like, I need you, we need you. We can't
lose you. And he's like he's like, as a matter
of fact, I coming to one police plaza. He's like,
I'm gonna put you there as the ICO, but I
really need you to do all this other stuff. So
I'm like okay. So I'm driving into one, two three.
(01:09:24):
I'm still disregarding him because I have the orders, and
I get to my locker and all this stuff, and
then Operations calls me and like, hey, listen, you've just
been transferred back to uh You've been transferred to facility's matchment.
So you know, I was like trying to get out there,
and I'm like, you know, it is what it is.
It's a weird time in the city. It is what
it is. How could I cry about getting as much
over time as I want, making my own hours and
(01:09:45):
having a take home car. How can I cry about that?
Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Got bad?
Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
You know? So I'm like, it is what it is.
I'm like, you know, I you know, I'm like, okay, Nick,
the best of it. And I go and I basically
finished building out that that system that they use today,
and you know, and that's where I was so was
it was?
Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
It?
Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Where all those things a hard adjustment. I think everything
on the job is a hard adjustment. I think any
time you change of anything that you're doing, the littlest
stupidest thing. I went from doing anti crime to I
went from being the field intelligence officer, or I went
from being on daytour cop to a midnight cop to
a four to twelve cop. It's always as little anxiety
(01:10:24):
because you don't know things. There's always going to be
a stress factor. But you know, I think cops are
well rounded people and you have the ability to learn anything.
And I think everything is short lived on the job
and you should experience as much as you can and
not get pigeonholed into one thing. And you know, I mean,
I really have nothing bad to say about the New
(01:10:45):
York City Police Department. Uh, it was. It afforded me
a great opportunity. It took me from someone who is
on the lower spectrum of as far as money is concerned.
Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
Too.
Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
You know, I live like I live a very nice
life thanks to the New York City Police, and it
really made a man out of me. And it gave
me these skills that I literally feel I could transition
into any field, into any aspect of business. And it
also gave me the ability. I was always a good
communicator growing up in Brooklyn and growing up in Staten
(01:11:16):
Island and just being around with such diverse communities in
New York City. But it really gave me the ability
to become such an effective, great communicator that I could
speak to the janitor the same way I could speak
to the President of the United States and be respectful
and calm and get my point across in a respectful manner.
Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
I'll never forget what Fred Manzilila, who's on the show
a while ago from My Mom Squad miniseries, told me,
and he retired on ours explosion as a sergeant in
O five. He said, you know, as you've heard many
times before, the NYPD is the greatest show on earth.
You know, that's the thing they always say, welcome to
the greatest show on Earth. But the thing that he
added to that is the NYPD is the show. You know.
(01:11:59):
You don't just have a back stage past. You are
the show, you know, and you were a part of
that up close in you know, front and center for
all those years. It taught you a lot. It gave
you a lot, and you know you mentioned it taught
you the ability to have the speaking or it gave
you the speaking ability rather to talk to just about anybody,
which leads us into the finest un filtered. A lot
went down during COVID. You and Eric get talked about
it on the show, and unfortunately you were were forced
(01:12:21):
into retirement sooner that you would.
Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Have liked to be.
Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
But at least on the flip side that we have
the finest and filtered, which has given us again true
to its name, a look at the NYPD like we've
never seen it before. You know, there's some people who
appreciate that, like myself. There are others that it's well
documented who who don't. But nevertheless, starting it originally it
was just you. Eric came on to explain his career
not too long after he ended up retiring, and the
two of you teamed up to create what's become very dynamic.
(01:12:46):
Now Sal's involved, now Marlon Beth was involved. But starting
with just you, what made you want to get in
front of the microphone in the first place.
Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
So I eventually, you know, COVID transitions, You know, I
get sick. I get really sick during COVID. I get pneumonia.
I almost go out of the picture. Get when I
get back to work. I rushed back to work. I
go see the district surgeon. You know, they're the ones
that will put you back full duty. The first time
in my career, I was ever out like long term.
(01:13:15):
I was out almost a month, and I was really bad.
You know. I went from boxing five minute rounds to
I couldn't even carry the groceries in my house. I
couldn't go up and down the stairs. So like, my
breathing capacity and my lung capacity had diminished greatly. During
that time, I sat with pneumonia for seven days. The
hospital protocols were horrific in New York, so I couldn't
(01:13:35):
get any treatment. I eventually did. I healed myself and
I wanted to get back to work quick because my
lung function was so bad that I was like, I
can't sit in this house. I'm gonna die. I have
to get back to doing my routine. I have to
get back to walking, I have to get back to
going up and downstairs. I have to get back to
myself because I was very vulnerable after that time. You know,
(01:13:57):
I was always a strong guy. I was always physical.
I always felt safe walking around anywhere I did. But
at that time, I really felt like, wow, I don't
think I could protect my family. And it was a
real humbling experience. So but I wanted to get back
and so I was like I'm not I'm not gonna
let this hold me down, you know what I mean.
I'm gonna get back to I'm gonna get back to myself.
And so I rushed back to work. And when I
(01:14:19):
get back to work, I go see the district surgeon
and they're like, listen, we got to keep you out.
You're not You're not good. And I was like yeah,
They're like you got to go for all these tests.
I'm like, okay, whatever, and they tell me at that time, listen,
this vaccine just came out, don't take it. And I
was like why and they're like, cause, you know, They're like,
you know, you had chicken box. I'm like yeah, They're like,
you didn't take the vaccine, right, And I'm like no,
They're like why not. I was like, I don't know.
(01:14:40):
They're like, because you had an antibodies and you have no
need for it. They're like, we're telling you not to
take it because you just had this really bad more
than likely you will have an adverse side effect if
you take this, and I'm like okay. I was like,
makes sense to me, you know. And then next thing,
I know, a few weeks later, I'm being told that
if I don't take it in seven days, I'm gonna
get fired. For the first time in my career, I
(01:15:01):
went from being a good soldier to saying, wait, you
got to answer this question for me because you just
told me all these other things and they couldn't. It
basically forced me out of my career, right, So I
instead of being fired and terminated, I just said, you
know what, I'm going to take an eighteen year retirement.
It stinks. Wasn't what I planned it to be, you know,
and I basically, you know, I moved my family down
(01:15:23):
to Florida at the time, and I started a transportation
business to feed my family because of my pension check
wasn't going to kick in for two years and it's
greatly diminished. So all my plans, my hopes and dreams
went up and flames in about seven days. But it
is what it is. So, you know, a weird thing,
you know, Like, so I'm home that the first day
when I retired from the police department, literally in shock,
(01:15:46):
and my phone rings and it's Fox News and I'm like,
what's up. And they're like, Hey, do you want to
come on talk about why I retired? And I'm like,
I don't think so, you know. And then I sit
there and I think about it, and I'm like, wow,
that's like thousands of people in my profession and across
the city that will never be given this opportunity. And
I'm going to be a coward and not say anything.
(01:16:08):
So I called him back. I was like, you know what,
I want to do it. But I had known. You know,
it's well known in the police department. If you ever
speak out, you know, that's it. You're ostracized. So I
knew that I was basically black balling myself from the
police department. But I'm like, you know, I already lost
my career, and you know, I have a lot of
faith in God, and and you know, and and I pray.
(01:16:29):
I pray the Psalm twenty three every day. And there's
a line in there where it says, you know, he
prepares a table before me in the presence of my enemies.
And I'm like, talking about preparing the table, you know.
And and so, you know, so I go on Fox
News and I speak my truth. I speak what happened.
I tell what happened. You know. I tell that it's
discriminatory what they did and why I lost my career,
(01:16:50):
and so and then Fox News kept calling me, and
you know, I was good to go on there. I
talk about Alvin Bragg and all this stuff. But when
the exodus, the height of the exodus comes, when people
like Marlon Beth will get terminated and tell Detective gets
terminated for not taking something that he also had the
antibodies for, never given due process. They want me to
talk about the exodus, but they don't want me to
(01:17:11):
bring up the mandate. And the mandate at that time
is the number one reason for the exodus. We're losing
fifteen sixteen hundred cops, you know, of all ranks, cops, detective, sergeants, lieutenants,
even some inspectors, even some people like big up there.
But they stayed quiet about it. And I did it,
and I was like, well, I'm not coming on. I'm like,
I'm not coming on and not talking about it. So
(01:17:32):
either you're gonna have me on and I'm gonna tell
what's happening. We'll call somebody else. And they called somebody
else and I vocalized that and I'm not going to
smash him here again, but you know, they called someone
else and he went on and he never mentioned all
the people that were being forced out of their careers
and terminated over this mandate, which was the initial part
of the exodus, and at that time that was the
(01:17:55):
main So I was like wow. I was like, I
can't even tell I can't even speak to anybody. Like
we're literally I'm being demonized by the New York City
Police Department. They're telling everyone I'm a conspiracy thereist because
I asked a question and I pointed out that they're
violating New York State human rights law. I violated out
that I basically labeled out how they're violating their own
(01:18:16):
policy and how they're violating the First Amendment and the
Civil Rights Act in nineteen sixty four. And I know
that specifically because I was a lieutenant and I had
to deal with these religious accommodations and I needed to
know the law. I was in a very unique position
where I had about seven eight hundred people underneath me,
and I had to know all of this law, this
case law, and what we would do and the procedures.
(01:18:37):
And I knew it all. I knew it better than
the people that they had approving or disapproving it. So
I spoke that out and I'm being painted as like
I'm a tinfoil hat maniac, and I'm like, wait, I'm
this anti vaccine nut and I'm like everything I'm saying
is factual, and I'm asking questions that you won't answer.
And now even the people that I believe aligned with me,
(01:18:57):
which is Fox News, I'm like, wow, trying to silence
me as well. So I'm like this isn't right. So
I just was like, you know what, I'm gonna start
a podcast. I had done a couple of podcasts, and
a couple of times I went on the host of
the show was like, dude, should really start a podcast?
Pretty good? Like I enjoyed listening to you, enjoyed this one,
you know, and I'm like, all right, and so now
(01:19:19):
I figure it out. I'm like, all right, how do
I start a podcast? I just Google, I figure it out.
I put it together, and you know, the basis of
the podcast was I started out with, like priore to
Eric coming in, was I said, you know, came up
with the whole logo New York's Finance retire Unfiltered podcast,
the Finance Unfiltered and like that just was like it
just came out of nowhere, really, and so I came
(01:19:40):
out with this whole idea. And my idea was not
to talk about the politics of New York City, or
not to talk about the politics of the NYPD, but
I wanted to give a voice to the voiceless. I
wanted people to understand that cops are humans and they're
a lot more nuanced than how they're painted in the media.
You got to remember, I'm coming off twenty twenty, coming
off the Floyd riots. I'm coming off that we're all racists,
(01:20:03):
we hate people, where we violate people's rights, and I'm like,
I know, that that's not true. I know, it's such
a diverse group of humans, the police, and I'm like,
and these people are such great people, like you know,
and I'm like, I really want to highlight people as
they retire. I don't want them to be like me. So,
you know, I had people that were active, like I
don't want to come on. I'm like, you can't come on,
you know, because right away it was very popular. First
(01:20:25):
episode thousands of views, like you know, and it was
very popular right off the gate. And so that's how
it started. And then I had gotten to Eric. It'd
spoken to Eric pretty early on because I had been
on social media even prior to doing the podcast, but
he had called me after I started the podcast, and
he's like, listen, he told me what was going on
with him. I had known Eric, we were rookies together
(01:20:47):
in the one two OHO. So I said, listen, take
care of yourself first. If they fire you, then you
could come on. If you could get out, get out
and retire, and when you retire, you could come on
and you can tell your story. And so you know,
we did that. We did a two part episode of
that that went pretty viral. His episode a lot of
(01:21:08):
media write ups about it, a lot of a lot
of you know, reports all over the city, papers and stuff,
and that kind of went national around the country. So
that episode did really well, and we had a really
good dynamic, and Eric's like, you know, maybe we could
talk about police things like these other cop guys are doing,
and I'm like, yeah, all right, let's do it. You know.
I was like, let's do it. And so it kind
(01:21:28):
of morphed into like we started analyzing the politics of
the job and the politics of the city. And I'm
pretty vocal person. I've always been. I'm a respectful person,
but I you know, I say a lot of things
that you know, it smacks some people in the face
because it's harsh, but it's the truth. And Eric's the
same way. And so we started doing that, and you
(01:21:50):
know a lot of pushback from the unions, a lot
of pushback from you know, the upper rechelant of the NYPD,
a lot of pushback from the progressive politicians in New
York City and even some of the Republicans. Because I
don't pull any punches when it comes to who you
ligne with politically. If I see that you're doing something wrong,
I make mention to it, you know, especially when it
comes around policing, and it just it just kind of
(01:22:11):
really involved. It just it just transformed and it just
keeps getting bigger, and it really empowered cops and it
helped a lot of cops mentally helped a lot of
cops cope with what they're dealing with on the job.
And you know, I think that the biggest thing I
get from cops constantly every day long. It it reminds
them that they're not insane, and there's people that understand
(01:22:33):
what they're going through and see what's happening and that care.
Speaker 1 (01:22:37):
Of course, and that's really all you need. Especially again,
and I was gonna say, if you really want to know,
I'm not just saying this because John's sitting here, It's
true if you want to know what's going on in
New York City just on a soup to nuts level
NYPD and everything else. In all this, John just saluted
to the finest and Filter is really one of the
main places to go because are their popular NYPD oriented
podcast out there. Yes, Minds is partially NYPD oriented, so
(01:23:00):
other there's mine, but I don't cover the events like
John does and police off the Cuff for those of
you out there. They cover a lot of true crime
and they're great at what they do. I love Bill
and Phil, but same thing. As far as the current
day to day and the NYPD data, neither of us,
neither myself nor Bill and fill it off the cuff
cover it John and Eric is now as well as
now Sal and Marlin do. So I mean with that
(01:23:20):
there comes a lot of flak. But you've managed it well.
You've grown a large audience and also it's produced spinoffs.
Sal's got his show, You've got Inspector Layson on the
show now with his own programming along with a chief Blucash,
who I've had the good fortune interview on this program.
And now you've got Pete Forcelly involved as well as
Tom Joyce. So it's a nice network within a network
(01:23:40):
that you guys have been able to build. So I'll
tell you could have never envisioned this. What are the
goals you have going forward for it?
Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
Well, so now we're a little we're transforming. Like I
watched the New York Media eat off of our podcast.
Like if you watch the podcast, you hear things three
four weeks before the New York Post puts it out.
Oh yeah, for sure. No, like you know, you know
what's happening, like the Minutia, and you know, anything that
the media won't cover obviously, like the cops give it
(01:24:07):
to us or people on the inside give it to
us to get out there, because that we're going to
force the handle the media to cover it. We get
zero credit for that, right, I personally think we're a
media company. I think where I think, you know, as
far as like media, we're spitting. We're spitting a lot
of the honest opinions that you're never gonna hear on
legacy mainstream media. You know, I still get calls to
(01:24:27):
today to go to mainstream media, and I just I
just don't like it. I don't like the thirty seconds.
I don't like the twenty seconds. I don't like the
done seconds. It's not enough time to say what I
got to say and give nuanced opinions. So I turned
them down a lot. Now I really don't like to
do them anymore. So, But I'm watching the Post and
(01:24:47):
the Daily News take all of the stories that we
put out, we tweeted about, and we we spoke about
on the podcast, and then they write articles and they
never credit that it came out from us weeks ago
and that we, you know, broke the store or we
And the other thing is we give a lot of opinions,
and I think we've predicted basically everything that has nothing
to do with inside information or anything else. And and
(01:25:09):
and so what we're doing now is we're focusing on
We're changing our website up, We're building our website, and
we're gonna move the Finance Unfiltered to not only be
audio video podcasts and shows, but we're also going to
do print media where the financifilter dot com is you're
gonna you know, if you want to guess right on there,
you could feel free to guess right you send us
(01:25:30):
an article. You know, obviously you know, if there's people anonymous,
we're not just gonna put garbage out there, but things
that are factual, things that are opinion will put out there.
So if you know, if guys want to write opinionated articles,
and we're gonna write articles ourselves, and we're gonna put
that on there. And that's going to couple in with
the whole social media and podcasting sphere. So we're changing
(01:25:51):
it into a complete media network. And then at that time,
you know, I mean, we're basically going to force the
papers in New York City and the media in New
York City to acknowledge the work that we've been doing,
because you know, they're making a ton of money off
of our stuff, and it's it's not right. You know,
(01:26:12):
it's just it's to me, it's like it's it's something
that needs to be rectified, and we're going to do it.
So you know, find us on Filtered News is going
to be coming out real soon.
Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Look, I'm eager to see that as someone that watches
and listens to the podcast on a regular basis and
enjoys the podcast very much, because and again I'm not
knocking them at all, but think about it, Katie, Katie
Honan knows who you are. You know, Tina Moore knows
who you are. Maria Kramer, who had the good fortune
to have on this program a little while.
Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
If you listen to it every day.
Speaker 1 (01:26:40):
Exactly, they know every day. Minds you they're in one Please,
I think the Shacks still exists. Even if they moved
it somewhere else, some version of the Shack still exists
at one PP. You're just as plugged in as they are,
and you're nowhere near one pp Eric's traveling the country.
Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
You're in Florida. Yeah, well, you know the thing is like,
and they're all great rapports. And I love Katie. I
would hate her if I was the mayor, But I
but I but I think she performs a vital service
to uh, you know, to everybody, to the citizens of
the city. And I commend her for that. And and
but you know, the thing is, they're not part of
(01:27:15):
the culture, right, They're not part of the police culture
like Tinamore, Like, yeah, she's been around a long time.
She's not part of the culture like me, Eric, Sally.
We were in it. We know everybody. We were part
of the culture, we went through it. We know everybody.
We're in on the inside. So again are we we're
there's things that we know that we've never put out,
(01:27:36):
you know what I mean, because we're like, we're not
telling anybody that, and you're not telling anybody that, right,
you know. And and so I think that's the difference
between us, and the other difference is like we don't
have an editor, like you know, like if anybody I'm
the editor, like you know what I mean? And and like,
you know, we give our opinions, like nobody's gonna hold back,
(01:27:58):
Like you're not gonna say, oh, you can't have this
person on the show. Oh we have a political narrative
to spin. You know, you could say that each of
us have a narrative, but it's from our heart. I mean,
everybody's got some type of narrative, right, but I think
you know, it's it's a free flowing media platform. And
the other thing about the platform that I really don't
think it gets enough credit for is like, we don't
(01:28:21):
beat up anybody. We let everybody come on. We had
Zohran Mondani come on, we have every We had cop
Watch come on, who chased Derek around for about a decade,
sued him a million times, dropped a million complaints against them.
And you know, we give you the floor. We give
you the floor, say what you got to say. You know,
we asked questions. We do in a respectful manner. And
and I think I think the world needs more of it.
(01:28:43):
And I think it's a vital service that's being provided
not only to the men and women of the NYPD,
but honestly to the residents of New York City. I
still consider this a form of serving. I mean, I've
gotten nothing but flack for it. If I was black
bulled originally from the NYPD a bond, but now forget
about it. I'm black bolled nationally in law enforcement. I mean.
(01:29:04):
And the shame of it is is like everywhere I
go people love me. I'm like, I like, you know,
I get so much hate, but never in the street.
Like when I'm in New York City, everybody loves me.
When I run into cops, people love me. When I write, dude,
I'm in I could be in South Carolina, people come
up to me. I'm in Florida. People come up to me,
and I'm like, we really are still serving in aspect,
(01:29:26):
And you know, and I'm not saying that I'm right
about things. I'm not. But I just give my opinion
on things. And that doesn't mean that they can't change
over time. But you know, I give my honest, hardcore
opinion of it. I'm not trying to make waves. I'm
not trying to make anybody, man, I'm just saying what
I think. And it's like it's it's been this revolutionary
thing and I still try to grasp what the hell happened,
(01:29:47):
you know.
Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
No, And I go back to something Reggie Jackson said
about visiting players coming into Yankee Stadium. He used to say,
they don't boot nobody's. If you got booed and Yankee Stadium,
that meant you were some body worth booing that met.
You were somebody you know, that was to watch out
for as a pitcher or as a hitter. You were
one of the best that they were booing you with
a sign of respect. Same thing really with the finest
(01:30:09):
unfiltered if they're trying to come after you, which they
have hardcore and we know who they are, and if
you watch the show you know who they are, that
means something you're doing something right.
Speaker 2 (01:30:18):
Yeah, and again, like you know, like like I said,
like on the face of it, when people look from
the outside that like all these guys get so much hate, right,
but it's it's not the reality. Like the reality is,
you know, the the overwhelming majority of people that listen
to the show. You know, we have our heads and
we appreciate them. Hey listen, you know, thanks thanks for
those views, you know, but like the majority of people
(01:30:41):
that listen to the show love us, Like you know
what I mean, nothing but support and and you know,
in return, we try to do the things that like
the job can't help support them, like help push their fundraisers,
help get their stories out there, you know, and and
and do stuff like that. Try to help sick cops, kids,
people with sick kids. We help even people. We help
people that aren't and even cops, you know. And so
(01:31:01):
we use our platform for good. And I think, you know,
I always say like I'm like, you know, I might
have took a big hit financially, but I always say
like God promoted me, man, because I was just a
lieutenant in the police department, and every police commission across
this country, and even the big wigs they all know
who I am. They all watch the show, and you know,
(01:31:21):
and and so I got promoted a lot of runnings
past lieutenant might not have got a big salary for
it or anything, but you know, everything's relative in life,
and I got no regrets, man, I'm living a great life.
And uh yeah, I'm excited to see what the finance
unfiltered brings in the future because we're growing at ginormous rates, man.
Speaker 1 (01:31:40):
Yeah, and absolutely and memorializing careers too. I had Tony
Ragganella on the show a while ago. It was great
seeing him pop up in the channel. Corey Pegee was
on a few days ago. I haven't had him on
it yet, but that was a great interview because it
gives you a chance to get to know someone other
than what you've heard, and I kind of relate when
I had commission the late Commissioner Safer on the show.
There's people who loved Commissioner Safer, there's people who didn't.
(01:32:00):
I'm like, you know what, let me talk to the
guy glad I did, got to do him. What a
great guy. Same thing. You kind of get a different
glimpse of somebody when they're talking in an open form
like that and can explain what you know who they are.
I'd heard a lot about the Geese. I got a
better understanding from that interview, and that was that alone.
That's one example, the heck of the conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:32:18):
No, Yeah, I loved having him on. Man. I heard
about this guy, like this notorious drug dealer who became
a cop, and I'm like, oh, the kid grew up poor,
didn't have a pot to piss and made some mistakes
as a kid, got to the police department, did everything right.
Rose to the rank of deputy inspector. I heard all
these stories about him on the police department. We asked
them about all those stories. You know. I thought it
(01:32:39):
was a great interview. I mean, people enjoyed it. But
we got a lot of hate for that too. Don't
you have him on I'm unfollowing. I was like, bye,
you know, I you know, I'm not asking anybody to
do anything. You know, don't do you know something's not
for you, then don't listen to it. It's no big deal.
If you don't like me, don't don't follow me. Like
I don't ask people to do anything. I just I'm
just out here, like you know, I'm just having fun. Man.
(01:33:01):
I just feel like, you know, I feel blessed. I
feel like I had a great career. I feel like again,
I don't even like to use the term in the
presence of my enemies, but like, yeah, God has prepared
a table before me, not only in the presence of
my enemies, but in the presence of a lot of
hearts and minds of people. And and I you know,
(01:33:21):
and I don't I don't take it lightly. Like I
don't take it lightly for a second. And I try
to do good with it. I'm not trying to even
if I'm like saying something about the police commissioner or anybody,
the chief of department or anything, or even the politicians,
even the leftist politicians that I don't agree with. I'm
never doing it from a place of hate. I'm doing
(01:33:41):
it because I'm telling you how I feel what I see.
And more often than none, there's a lot of people
like me thinking and saying the same things. They're just
not doing it publicly.
Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
He done in publicly. You've got a great job with it.
There's been a heck of a conversation. The hour and
a half slown by. I'm gonna end as I always do,
with the rabbit fire, five hit run questions for me,
five hit run answers from you, and you could say
pass if you want so. Besides anti crime, you can't
say anti crime. Favorite assignment you ever.
Speaker 2 (01:34:09):
Had, I'd say impact, doing impact as rookies with a
bunch of rookies out on the street. That was That
was fun, man, I had a ton of fun.
Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Of course, you mentioned some earlier. You could expand out here.
If there's another one that sticks out, an arrest or
case that stayed with you, for a good reason.
Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Oh man. You know people always ask me that, like
what's your what's your favorite arrest? And and honestly, I
gotta be honest, man, it's it was always the little
things for me. Like I've won you know, I've won
Cop of the Month so many times, I've been up
put up for Cop of the Year a lot. I've
had many of my arrests and put in the papers.
I've been on so many like impactful jobs that are
(01:34:47):
horrible and I don't want to take hours to go
into those jobs. But it was always the little things
that stuck with me, and and and and who I was,
and I just like, like, like just for an example,
like when I was when I was a sergeant, I
did time square and I would always get for some reason,
I would always get the same post forty second and
(01:35:08):
eighth Street, right, so I'm doing times square. I think
I was in I yeah, I was in IB at
the time. I was in IB at the time. And
you know, if you know that that post is the
worst post in the city. I got about seven times.
I got as a cop, I got a sergeant, and
I got a lieutenant. Like I always got that post.
And you know, a million people coming at you. Everybody
wants to get down to the ball and and this
(01:35:28):
guy comes up and he's like, hey, I just lost
my autistic son. He doesn't speak, he's non verbal. I'm like,
where'd you lose him? He's like, I don't know. So
I'm like I'm like, oh, he's like and I was
like what. I was like, where'd you come from? And
he tells me and I was like, what did you
do with the cops? And he's like, I was like,
you didn't tell anybody, Like what the hell? I was like,
give me, give me a description. I start trying to
backpedal his steps and he's like I told all the
other cops. They don't care. I'm like what, So now
(01:35:50):
I'm furious. I put over the radio the description of
the kid, and I'm like, come with me, Come with me.
And I'm now walking him on Eighth Avenue in forty
second Street in Times Square. We're walking against traffic in
the middle of the street. I'm trying to get back
to where he last saw his son and uh, and
I'm handling the radar. I'm putting that over and you know,
(01:36:12):
and I'm like, I'm like, I want I want to
pass out because I'm like, if we don't get this
kid right now, it's freezing, he's gonna die. Yeah, he's
gonna die. I'm like, and and so my heart's pumping
through my chest and and you know, I'm running down
the block. And sure enough, the kid just stayed right
at the last s body season. So we get the kid.
The guy's crying, hugging, kissing me, And I was like,
(01:36:33):
it was the things like that that always mattered more
to me than the arrests. You know. It was always
the things like I'd be in a supermarket later on
with my kids and some lady like, hey, I just
want to thank you. Somebody broke in my house, and
I'm like, I wouldn't even know who they are. Somebody
broke in my house and you got to all my
property back. I just want to thank you. Oh you
help my daughter, Oh you did that. And those are
the things that I'll never forget. It's like the interactions
(01:36:55):
with the people other than the arrests, because it was
it was always work ethic. If you came to me
with a problem, and still today, if you come to
me with a problem, I'm gonna help you solve like
you know, and that's just what you know. Those are
the things that stick with me the most.
Speaker 1 (01:37:10):
Oh yeah, listen, you can take the man out of
the police department. You can't take the police department out
of the man, because it's scary enough if there's a
lost child, But at least if it's a child that
you know, they're relatively they're not special needs, they can
kind of advocate for themselves even if they're crying. Hey,
I last saw my mommy here, my daddy was there.
They can speak. A special needs child can't speak, you know.
So it's all the more heartbreaking and dangerous. But I'm
(01:37:31):
so glad this one had an uplifting outcome. That's a
good one. Thank you for sharing that. Third question of
rapid fire hardest lesson learned in the command role.
Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
You have to put your head on the pillow at night.
You are the boss. That's it. I don't care if
you're a one day sergeant or not. You mind if
I give a quick rundown on this one.
Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
So I'm a sergeant very early on, right, I'm a sergeant.
I'm a rookie sergeant. I get to the desk my
first night on patrol other sergeants there. There's one guy
that has six months on me, and there's another kid
that came out of the academy with that I worked
in the one two zero with and he's got about
three years in rank right on me. Well not that much,
but whatever. He's got a little bit more time you're
in a hiff. Whatever. And so there's a spot on
(01:38:16):
the roll call. I only have three cars that night,
So there's three sergeants, three cars. Right, I would handle
patrols my first night out. I want to learn this job, right,
But there's a spot on the roll call that says
that I need a guy at nineteen thirty, which is
seven thirty hours at this corner. There's no details on it.
(01:38:36):
I go to the chain sheet where it would say
why that person's posted there nothing on there, so it
doesn't say anything. It's a Saturday night, nobody's around. So
I go to the Special Operations office. Nobody knows, Community
Fares office, nobody knows. So I tell the other two sergeants.
I'm like, uh, we got to cover this post at
seven thirty. We only got three cars, Like, what the
hell to do? They're like, don't worry about it. Just
(01:38:57):
cross it out, line it out. And I'm like, yeah,
it doesn't seem right though. They're like, nah, it's nothing,
just line it out, bro, And I'm like, I don't know, man.
I was like, is that anybody could call? Now? Mind you?
I don't know anybody. I know these two guys. I
don't know anybody else. I'm like, I was like, that
doesn't seem right to me. That line like that doesn't
like that seems like it needs to be there for
a reason, right, And and they're like no, no, no, no,
(01:39:20):
it is what it is anyway. Long story short, they're like, John,
stop shaking out. This is what they tell me. Stop
shaking out. Just line it out. It's on me if anything,
don't worry about it. They both say it to me
like okay, okay. I was like, maybe I am freaking out.
So I line it out. Night starts off crazy, get
a barricaded DP right off the god. Then I get
like a suicide. I get all these very big involved
(01:39:41):
jobs that I have to do forty nine I gotta
notify everybody, and then we make it through. Halfway through
the night, I forget about that thing. At seven thirty,
so I get the call from the desk. Now, yo, John, uh,
that's so well called. He wants to know why that
guy isn't there on the post. And I was like,
and let me guess. You said you don't know, and
(01:40:03):
he goes yeah. I was like, oh, so the big
tough guy, don't worry about it's on me. All this
stuff you folded like a cheap suit. I was like,
no problem, give me his not about quom no na
na nah, screw him, don't call him, screw him. And
I'm like, bro, I was like, just give me the
guy's number. I was like, I don't care. I was like,
I'm not scared. I'll take responsibility for it. Don't worry
about it. You know, it is what it is. I
messed up. I'll get somebody over there. So now I
(01:40:24):
break up the I break up like I think I
only had like one car out. I break the car up.
I have the other sergeant. I call the other sergeant.
I'm like, yeah, you got to you gotta do your
job tonight. You gotta work now you know. Now I'm
taking command of the older sergeants too. I'm like, now
you got to be a sector like I was on
that I gotta get somebody over there. So he's like,
I screw him, screw that. Meanwhile, this guy was probably
(01:40:45):
out of eating all night or whatever and driving around
wasting a body having a drive or driving him around.
I'm running around like a chicken one out of head.
But it's my first night, and I know I gotta
take my lumps because I'm the rookie sergeant. But now
I'm a little annoyed. Right, So now the yes calls him.
So now he calls me, and he's like, John, he's
freaking out, Bro, he wants to know who did the
(01:41:06):
line out. I was like, oh, let me guess. Just
like the other coward, you you don't know who did it, right?
You told him you don't know, right. I was like,
give me the guy's number. I'll call him. I was like,
don't worry about it, bro, I won't even say you
guys had anything to do with it. Just give me
his number. I was like, you two aren't men. I said,
from this day forward, from this point on, I run
this store. Anything that you guys say doesn't matter. I'm
(01:41:27):
the sogynty here now from now on. Right, So true story.
So I called the sol I called lieutenant. I was like, hey, Lou,
how you doing now. I think he had a couple.
I think it was a couple of sheets to the
wind that night. Great guy. I don't know him at
the point, and he's pissed, right, And I was like, hey, listen,
it's my fault. I just want to let you know
I heard that you were mad about the line out.
I line that guy out totally apologized, totally my fault.
(01:41:49):
I didn't mean to do it. He's cursing me out.
He's yelling at me, you're a rookie. Who do you
think you are? Blah blah blah blah blah. And I
was like, look, I just want to let you know
it wasn't intentional. Whatever you gotta do, I totally understand,
but I'm just letting you know, man to man, I
did not make that line out to screw you, like
you're taking it way too personal. And he's like, screw you.
(01:42:10):
You're getting a CD. You're standing on the foot poles.
So he puts me on the foot polest right, So
I'm like, okay. I was like whatever. So first day
out as a sergeant, I'm on the footballs, you know,
and and so I'm like, wow, look at this show.
And now one of the solgeists comes by and he's like,
screw him, bro. I'm like, bro, I'm enough of taking
advice from you. I already told the other guy we're
(01:42:33):
done here. This is my tool from now on and whatever.
I run into the lieutenant A couple of days later.
Now I get patrol. The next few nights, I run
patrol the whole time. I don't ever want to do
the desk. And I run into the lieutenant like like
the next week, and I was like, hey, I was like,
now I introduced myself to him, and I was like,
(01:42:53):
he winds out, He's like, listen, I'm not going to
give you a CD apologize for the other night. I
didn't really have a full grasp of what happened. But
now I kind of understand what happened. And at least
you're a man about it. At least you were a
man about it, unlike the other two. And so I said,
and so whatever. We kind of were cool after that,
and then I get called into the CEO's office for
like a supervisors meeting, and so I had the rest
(01:43:16):
of the week. Now, after my first day, I had
ran patrol the way I wanted to run. I was like,
I'm not listening to these two guys. I'm doing everything
I think that needs to be done. And at that
CEO's meeting, he was like, you know how every sogeant
in this priest should be just like this kid McCarry
right here, you know, And I was like, all right.
I was like, ad, I'm doing it right here. And
(01:43:37):
so that's my thing. You're a supervisor, you're the boss.
Whatever decisions you make, you better be able to hang
your head on the hat. You be able to sit
there and tell God, I did this because of that.
And it doesn't matter who you're talking to or who's
putting pressure on you to do something else. Go with
your gut, go with your heart, go what you know
(01:43:58):
is right, because at the end of the day, when
you're holding that bag, nobody's gonna be that way.
Speaker 1 (01:44:04):
And that's the highlight of the show.
Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
Sorry for that problem.
Speaker 1 (01:44:07):
No, that's fine, that's fine. Listen. That's that's the highlight
when I put out and you know, because you watch
the show, when I put out highlight clips the next day,
that's the story I'm picking. That was a great story.
I'm glad you went into it and yeah, you know,
there's again a lot of people that are coming up
and maybe want to take the starge' discess or newer
sergeants are going to bedfit for that story. So don't apologize.
You did great. Fourth question of rabbid fire again kind
(01:44:27):
of in line with the third question that I asked you.
You know, even before you got promoted. Best advice you
received coming up.
Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
Be humble, Be humble, treat people how you want to
be treated. Treat people like there, your cousin, there, your mother, there,
your child there, You be humble, excellent.
Speaker 1 (01:44:48):
And fifth and finally, what do you miss most about
the job?
Speaker 2 (01:44:52):
I miss? I miss everything about it, man, I'll be
honest with you. I'm I even missed the bull crop.
I miss it. I missed the camaraderie, I missed the jokes.
I miss uh, you know I miss but you know,
but and but that's like the finance unfiltered. If though,
those of you guys that don't know, like that's how
I started my day off. I would going to work early,
I'd have coffee, I'd be uh and looking up all
(01:45:13):
the reports, seeing what happened the night before, running through
all the gossip from the night before, and that's kind
of what we do now, so you know, and that's
like kind of how I stay attached to it. Yeah,
so that's that's that's what I missed. I missed. I
missed the people the most, you know, I I even
miss like you know, they say, like I don't miss
the circus and I don't miss I miss a lot
(01:45:33):
of the structure of it. I do, And I miss
I missed the people. I even missed the crazy people
that didn't like me or like had it had something
against me. I I miss it because it was so
I have, dude, I have so many stories bro that Like,
if I wrote a book about my police experience, it
would be in the fiction section. Bro, Like I'm telling you,
(01:45:53):
people would be like, that's not real and that never happened,
and and and I you know, I wouldn't change it
for the world. I would. I I wish I got
more time to stay, but I didn't. And everything happens
for a reason, of course. You know.
Speaker 1 (01:46:04):
That's the same way I'm looking at certain things going
on in my life right now. There is one question
from the chat from del Ray f D Three's basically asking,
let's say the circumstances changed and you were allowed to
come back and resume your time with the NYPD to
finish your full twenty years. Would you come back?
Speaker 2 (01:46:18):
I didn't sell my house and stand out for a reason.
If something changes, I will one hundred percent fee back.
You know. I love New York City. It's my home.
I felt like I was forced out of it. The
only reason I even left is because I didn't have
a salary coming in and I was like, I need
to make money and I couldn't work in New York City.
So I was like, oh man, what the hell do
(01:46:39):
I do? So I left. I was like where could
I go to? Where could I go to work? So
I was like, I could come to Florida and join
law enforcement. And when I started to go through that process,
I really got like. I was like, I got offered
a job from the FDLA, the Florida Division of Law Enforcement,
(01:47:00):
which like oversees all the sheriff's offices, and it was
basically gonna be me like doing ib work or like
what I did in facilities, where I was going to
oversee all these budgets and all this stuff. And it
was a really high level job and it was a
cool job, but it wasn't what I wanted to do.
And I'm like, you know, And I was like, I
always thought, like the thing that made me such a
(01:47:21):
good cop is I knew the areas, I knew the streets,
I knew the people, I knew everyone, Like, you know,
nobody asked me where I'm from, wherever I travel in
the world, you know, like, oh, well, we'll pardon me.
Wait wait, you live in New York. I'm like, oh,
I don't, like, you know, like everyone knows. So I'm
like I was a good cop because I was a
product of that environment. I don't know Florida, man. I
(01:47:41):
was like, I just don't know it. And I'm not
knocking any other agency, and I'm not knocking any other
state or how you work or where you work. But
I really feel like I played for the Yankees, and
I just I don't know that I could go play
for a farm team. And I'm not trying to knock
you guys like you don't do real work. I'm just
trying to say how it is, like I p I
(01:48:02):
policed in the heart of the world for the largest
police organization in the world, and I was damn good
at it. And I just as much as I love it,
I love doing it there, I don't I don't, you know,
I kind of like I kind of like being in
bliss in Florida and not knowing what the hell's going on.
Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
It's got a bad life. And the last question from
Steve Irado, what rank did you like better? And it's
a combination of a question he's asking along with del
Ray police officer, sergeant, which rank that you prefer?
Speaker 2 (01:48:33):
You know? So I never really got to go back
out as a lieutenant, So I don't know, but I
will tell you I love being a sergeant. I love
being able to mentor young guys. It was a hard job,
I think, I think, you know. I think the motto
for the SBA is accurate as it completely accurate. It's
the it's the toughest job in the world. It one
hundred percent is, But it's also the most rewarding job
(01:48:55):
in the world. You might only be at the first
level of supervision, but that's told early on. I learned
right away that I still am the boss and at
the end of the day, that CEO is not around
when those job hits. The lieutenant's not around when those
job hits. You're in charge, right, And I learned how
(01:49:16):
to firsthand be a supervisor, and I learned how to
mentor people. And I was out there still. I was
just like like I was still just one of the guys,
which I was just controlling the moves. That was it.
I was still out there. And I loved being a sergeant.
It was a demanding job. That's not something that I
think I could do the way I did it for
a very long time, do it for twenty years. I
(01:49:37):
think I dropped right after it because I'm very conscientious.
I'm very radio conscience. But I loved being a sergeant.
And then when you go to a detail as a sergeant,
whatever it is, detective, squad, anti crime, whatever you do,
even if you go inside, I mean, it's still a
rewarding job. And you were able to help people, right,
people come to you with problems all day. That doesn't
(01:49:59):
mean you shouldet PI picked on, doesn't mean that you
should be a pushover, uh, But you're able to help
people that need out, you know, and and and you
really might not be able to do that as a cop.
So I I my personal favorite is is is UH
is a sergeant, but you make a lot more money
as lieutenant.
Speaker 1 (01:50:16):
So yeah, A bad, a bad. Like I said, this
was fantastic. Before I say goodbye to the audience, and
I thank you Mensali for your time. John, besides the
finess some filtered any other shout outs to anybody or
anything that you want to give the floors yours my friend.
Speaker 2 (01:50:30):
Now listen. I appreciate your audience, I appreciate everybody and
he honestly, I appreciate you. I think you you influenced
us a lot early on. You give us a lot
of criticism about about our vocals, about the equipment that
we were using, and I honestly, I you know, you
made the show a lot, a much better show. And
I appreciate, uh, you know, I appreciate the the brotherhood honestly,
(01:50:53):
and and and I apologize for any time you ever
got flack for people thinking that we we put you
up to something or anything like that, you know, because
it's so not the truth, you know what I mean.
You know, Mike had written an article that got a
lot of flak from people in the upper echelon on
the NYPD, and we were completely out of that nothing
(01:51:13):
to do with us. You know, we we talk from
time to time. But it's never about that. It's always
about like podcasting or shows or sponsors, you know, And
so I appreciate you. I appreciate what you do and
and you know, you know, I didn't I didn't know
about your show when I started the podcast, but but
that is like your show is what my original idea was,
(01:51:36):
was like to highlight these people. And it's a great job.
And I enjoy it and keep doing it, my friend,
and I love it, you know, I thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (01:51:43):
That means a lot. Excuse me, you know, again, I
appreciate it. I always wonder, you know, But again, when
I get the comments from all my FD friends and
PD friends, I realize why I'm doing this, the significance
behind it, and it keeps me moving because you always
wonder who you're reaching, right, you know. You talk about
staying humble. I don't like to get too big for
my bridges. I'm bigger than what I am. When I
hear this feedback, it reminds me of why I'm doing
it and the joy involved in doing it. It's for
(01:52:05):
guys like you, It's for all the guys on the
FD side as well, active and retired. You know, I
love y'all. I appreciate y'all on the show is not
what it is without you. Of course, again a shout
out to everybody involved with the Finest and Filter. It's
a great show. If you're not subscribed, please do And
most of your audience is my audience, so most of
them are. But if you're not, go right over to
the Finest and Filter. I have everything linked for them
in the description of this episode. Believe me, it's well
(01:52:26):
worth your time. John stick around, we'll talk off air again.
Thanks to all of you who tuned in tonight rather
you watched on YouTube, LinkedIn or Facebook. And for those
of you who will watch and listen to this later
coming up next on the MIC the New Even Podcast.
Like I said, CIA Operations from nineteen ninety one until
two thousand and two, she was involved with a lot
as an intelligence analyst. Kim Woodward will be here this
Friday for a very special edition of The Beat Profiles
(01:52:48):
Police Nationwide and next Monday. It's an important show for us.
You remember our friend Miles Son who was a longtime
inspector with Customs, a member of the FDL. We lost
them last year to a blood clock. Complications of that
paying tribute to him next Monday with a returning guest
Bob Starkman and Alex Alonzo to a surprise guest that
they didn't want me to know about. But we're gonna
look back at miles of some incredible life and career
(01:53:09):
in law enforcement and just pay tribute to one of
the kind guys. So very much. Looking forward to those
two shows again as always Eastern Standard time six p m.
And please tune in for that. For those of you
listening on the audio side for tonight's outro song from
their nineteen ninety three album Enter the Stage, Black Moon
is back on the mike to new Aden podcast with
welcome down in the meantime on behalf of retired NYPD
(01:53:30):
Lieutenant John McCary and producer Victor and all of you
in the audience. I am Mike Clone and we will
see you next time. Everybody, Take care, stay safe?
Speaker 3 (01:53:40):
Yeah Dan, what up?
Speaker 1 (01:53:44):
Welcome to flight Black Home. We are about to take
you on and journey.
Speaker 2 (01:53:49):
Yeah. Whether us looking.
Speaker 3 (01:53:52):
Mash fine everything listening to school, I'm the captain box Shot,
our co pile is wee jays?
Speaker 1 (01:53:58):
Will we.
Speaker 3 (01:54:00):
Have us to definitely ve be on that at abouna
take you about freight one thousand feet into the air.
He uh, he plods any smooth appetite. So it's a
buckle up. Enjoy your flight.
Speaker 2 (01:54:23):
Till the week where we you'll welcome down world.
Speaker 3 (01:54:25):
Life, each and every individual insight. Let my man juwel
keep the staff for your card. Man, I can covers
and take a look at me God, your God. Here
the brothers with the first real quick he show him
how you represent the boot can Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:54:38):
You know what they say y.
Speaker 3 (01:54:39):
About brothers to school face upstaky, they be getting lacy
world life.
Speaker 1 (01:54:43):
I ain't gonna ball aks.
Speaker 4 (01:54:44):
My man brother b on the street, see what's helf
flocked up?
Speaker 2 (01:54:47):
And he was sweet stuff kid, it's.
Speaker 4 (01:54:49):
Hot work tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (01:54:49):
Do and get the loop from the man that night
from Manimberland Bruckle at the shot that I've ain't where
the hanging with gang, hanging with the double leged hanger
who can't play breaking your lord. If your fake me
go go a cat matter of fact like get George,
I'm gonna bring it to get chest, like when having
to fill your lungs up with all the.
Speaker 2 (01:55:06):
Bull you have with fend me, but I'm gonna put
the backs to Paul Lake. So if the week getting
walk down over.
Speaker 4 (01:55:11):
You every day, walk m down, walk him down, fuck
'em down, yea welcome down, fulcome down, you know, bugle
me down, welcome down, flucome down, blugle me down, fucome.
Speaker 3 (01:55:32):
Yeah, they tell me sure where I get get a
little living s wicked. It's all about the last how
they get. How should somebody getting the bull with the
slug me but white jouk a lover a fish.
Speaker 2 (01:55:42):
Black drunk.
Speaker 4 (01:55:42):
You're gonna tell me underworld the mother.
Speaker 3 (01:55:44):
When I was.
Speaker 2 (01:55:45):
Fifteen running around.
Speaker 3 (01:55:46):
There was a real street over on uk on the
house shooting the dice, slaking up yet and nice talking
about the heights to shoot you with and up to
one two five b ship on a shorty looking ive
on the prod and get de doominated. And I was in, Okay,
now you gonna be buck so you when the puck
wuk so, yeah, I knew your X amount of thoughts,
but they're.
Speaker 4 (01:56:04):
Gonna be buck shot because I take.
Speaker 3 (01:56:06):
No shorts word children shove around my chest, becup to
all of myself rule boy poject. So when you see
your weak brother, speak to that last of that I'm
gonna hit them up with the blast is broke.
Speaker 4 (01:56:17):
Ya welcome, yeah, fulcome, damn fulcome welcome Yeah, fuck him,
welcome yeah, muck him, damn welcome, damn welcome, yeah, fuckome.
Speaker 3 (01:56:37):
When I was in school, I was the mac buck
westrat where the hell liver cool contact knapsack field with
the giddad a gee and then they'll go back a yes, indeed.
Speaker 1 (01:56:47):
A man little brother running up on the.
Speaker 3 (01:56:49):
Ball flyers hell, hit the ball, play the ball, and
all the older people saying, showed these a badass. But
you was the smart little brother, so you're going to
last then at the time then le Viron where they
hit your in the least four years, So why can't
the Leger in the ninth board. It's all about the board.
Ninety five ninety six boot Camp Click gu said get over.
In nineteen ninety eight, I couldn't wait to get all
(01:57:09):
my brothers and new shows from the state this date. No,
I'm the other vaginal head given destructions, nothing with the brothers,
beat minus on productions. Welcome the box down, USA, but
the week you get this every day.
Speaker 4 (01:57:23):
Welcome down, Welcome down, Welcome down. What welcome Yeah, welcome,
welcome Welcome, bothering, down Welcome, Down, Bucko Welcome, Welcome,