Episode 366: NYPD Assistant Commissioner Kevin O’Connor

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're listening to the Bike to Do Even podcast hosted
by media personality and consultant Mike Globe. We're not out

(00:43):
there fighting anything other than crime.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
We see stuff that nobody should.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Have to you know.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
You know George.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Thirty one, he wreck it out.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Didn't make your car.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
You're listening to the Beat Profiles of police nationwide. You know,
even though it's a nationwide series. Uh, you know, listen
when you're involved this high up in the NYPD, as
tonight's guest was, you know, you kind of deal with
nationwide tactics. You talk to police departments all over the country,
liaison sometimes all over the world. So I thought it'd
be fitting to put that under the Beat banner. And

(01:32):
on that note, ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you to
this episode three hundred and sixty six of the Mike
the New Haven Podcast, and we're going to be talking
tonight with NYPD Assistant Commissioner Kevin O'Connor, who will introduce momentarily.
If you haven't checked out the previous episode, which was
a fun one to record. That was episode three hundred
and sixty five, which I was able to do with

(01:52):
former FBI special agent it's part of beat. Joe Valacat
Joe Balcatt for a long time was not only a
special agent in the Bureau, who is also of course
a member of the FBID York Office as a spokesman
from nineteen eighty four nineteen eighty one until his retirement
in two thousand and five worked for WNBC for a while,
so he was definitely a fun person to chat with.

(02:14):
As tonight's guest will be by now you know the deal.
If you have any questions, fire away in the chat,
I'll highlight them at the appropriate time. And of course
for those of you that may want to contribute to
the super Chat as well, you're more than welcome to
do that. Before we begin, as always, a word from
Billy Ryan and then Ryan Investigator Group. The Mike thing
you have in podcast is proudly sponsored and supported by

(02:35):
the Ryan Investigative Group. If you need an elite PI,
look no further than the Elite Ryan Investigative Group, which
is run by retired NYP Detective Bill Ryan, a twenty
year veteran of the Department who served a majority of
his career in the Detective Bureau, most notably in the
arson and explosion squad. So if you need a PI
to handle anything from fraud, legal services, and anything else

(02:55):
that you might require, contact Bill at three four seven
four one seven sixteen again three four seven four one
seven sixteen ten. Reach him at his website or the
email that you see here. Again, if you need a PI,
look no further than Bill Ryan and the Ryan Investigative,
who a proud supporter and sponsor of the Mike and
New Haven podcast. Hopefully I should be having some new

(03:16):
sponsors added to the program pretty soon. I've been working
diligently behind the scenes on that, so looking forward to
getting more ads and incorporating the program to keep Billy company.
Billy's been loyal, uh and he's been my rider die
sponsorship wise, so it's about time we add some company
to the Ryan Investigative group mix. And I see Billy
in the chat already. Hello to John Costello as well
as John Latanzio, retired Emergency Service Unit Officer three in

(03:39):
the ROX vacationing currently in Italy, so he's watching me internationally.
And for that, John, I say, enjoy your vacation, thank
you very much. My next guest is a thirty five
year veteran of the NYPD, whose career span patrol investigations,
internal affairs, and executive leadership. From his time walking and
beat in Hell's Kitchen to overseeing youth strategies and social
media investigations city wide, he combined front line experience be

(04:01):
forward thinking innovation, rising through the ranks to become an
Assistant commission in the New York City Police Department. He
played a key role in shaping out of the NYPD
connects with young people and the community it serves, and that,
of course, is for this episode three hundred and sixty
six of the Mike the NWAVN podcast is retired NYPD
Assistant Commissioner of the aforementioned Kevin O'Connor. Welcome, How are you, sir?

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Hi Mike, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Thanks for being here. Was very much looking forward to
having you on a lot of people, particularly on LinkedIn
when I put out the promo mentioning you were coming on.
We're very excited about that. So we'll be having a
lot of people, I'm sure in the chat tonight. But
as I ask every guest, before we get into your
career and where you worked and things you accomplished, where
did you grow up and did you always know you
wanted to be a cop.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
So majority my childhood was in Middle Village Queens, didn't
want to be a cop. My dad was a cop.
He's a police officer in at thirteenth. I'm actually full
generation Nypday one is actually fifth generation Nypday.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
So it took me.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Until I retired to find out the exact date my
family got on the job. And it was my uncle,
my great uncle, William Carwin, who got on.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
June twenty fifth, nineteen thirteen.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
And we've been running consecutively since. So very proud of
the legacy of my family has in the Nypday and
it's continuing today.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
As you should be. And you mentioned at thirteenth precinct.
That warms my heart because your father worked right next
door to my friend's over in Truck one of the
Emergency Service Unit, so that precinct is near and dear
to me for that reason. And hell out everybody from
Truck one who may be tuning in tonight, especially my
buddy Greg Welch. So you mentioned you didn't want to
be a cop before I get to you eventually taking
a test and getting on the job, what did you

(05:45):
originally want to do?

Speaker 3 (05:47):
So I wound up going to college. I went to
Manhattan College in the Bronx, and I was studying to
be an electrical engineer. Loved maths, loved science, but police
war wasn't something that just jumped off the page. When
I was sixteen, my father said, you're taking the test.

(06:08):
So I took the test along with sixty thousand other people.
A lot of people took that test. I still remember
the list. It was forty sixty one was my list. Wow,
And I was too young to take the job when
I got called the first time. I was too young
to take the job the second time. And it was
nineteen eighty seven when the stock market crashed, not like

(06:30):
we see it today, up down, left, right, this was
the real crash of eighty seven. I was going into
my junior year and I got a call from the
police department that this would be the only last chance,
my third chance to get in off that list. Otherwise
set up to take the test again. Now, I only
turned twenty in nineteen eighty seven, so I'm giving up

(06:51):
my age. And they said, don't worry about that. If
you want to go in, we're putting a January class in.
So I realized that with the market crashing, my cousin
was one of only one of six female engineering students
in Manhattan College, and she was running a four point
zero and got one job offer on two hundred resumes submitted. Well,

(07:15):
so I was in big trouble. So I said, maybe
Dad was right, Maybe I'll try Plan B. I can
always go back to school. So I took the chance,
and I wound up going into police department in January
of eighty eight. I was twenty years five months old
when I got in, so I wasn't even twenty one.
So my father said, it's kind of weird because technically

(07:36):
he's supposed to be twenty one to get to have
a license to have a gun. So he said to me,
something's up. You know, the police department doesn't do anything
for anybody. So his pessimism came out. And he was
a delegate for many years in the thirteenth so he
knew the ins and outs. So I got into the class,
and sure enough he was right. When I got out,

(07:57):
I got assigned to Midtown and they had back then
the Mayor's Midtown Enforcement Unit. It was a multi agency unit,
and sure enough, there were six of us that weren't
twenty one yet, so guess what we were doing? Underage
drinking operations. So we could legally walk around carrying guns,

(08:17):
but we weren't legally allowed to drink, and that's why
they were willing to accept us. They immediately off the
bat used us for two three months, depending on when
your birthday was, to do underage drinking in Midtown, which
was a very different place back then. I mean, the
times welled de deuce. It was nothing like you see today,

(08:39):
and a lot of people can't even fathom what it
was like back then.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
You see videos, and the great thing about the Internet
is that it's time capsules. So you go on YouTube
or whatnot, or even just on Instagram and people have
videos of late eighties, early nineties Times Square. You see
X rated theaters, you see you know people ladies of
the night, shall we say, walking around and it was listen.
That's just how it was back then. It was the
status quo. So even now when New York City is,

(09:03):
as we'll talk about a little bit later, experiencing a
little bit of a problem with crime rising up again,
compare it to that age and it's nothing nothing. It
was disnified and that would come, of course during the
Giuliana years. It's nothing like it was back then. It
was the Wow Wow West back then.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
And what's ironic is we were solo foot.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Posts rookies, right yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
I had the front of the Port Authority from forty
to forty second, pretty steady, you know, and they.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Were Port Authority offices all over the place.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
But we were basically told, I don't want to catch
you by the sogeant or the lieutenant standing with another post.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
That's your post.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
If you link up for a minute or two, and
it's fine on the corners, but that's your post. So
and now they work double everything. I don't think it's
any more dangerous now than it was then. In fact,
I think it's less. I think I love NS very
early on, how to take care of myself, how to
protect myself, how to use tactics, much better.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Than most right away.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
As did you know there were probably forty five to
fifty of us in that rookie unit back then. We
called it FTU, and we turned out of Midtown South,
so we were covering mostly if they avenue posts back then.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
And I'm glad you mentioned the port Athority because I
was going to say, you know, the port Athority Police
does play a hand in assisting NYPD guys. There's a
good working relationship there across the board, which has always
been a positive. But you know, and I always talk
about this, it doesn't matter, you know, going through the
academy pre merger back then, which department ended up in
rather be transit, rather it be housing, or rather in
your case, the city as it was referred to. You know,

(10:46):
there was there was a lot of turbulence, a lot
of turbulence. The city was in an uphill battle. It
was a violent time to be a police officer, much
like it is now, although in a different context. It
was a dangerous time to be a police officer. And
they were you know, you guys were being at target
back then for sure. And if you go again, I
always say this, if you go on the officer down
memorial page across the board, because since the merger of

(11:07):
the departments in nineteen ninety five, they count the housing
line of duty deaths as well as a transit. There's
a lot of names back to back to back during
that time period who were getting killed. So, you know,
being a young cop around that time, of course, you
did have guidance. Even if you were alone on a post,
you weren't truly alone. Just tell me about again, and
you kind of referred to it. Just now learning the street,
learning how to talk to people, and before Bill Bratton

(11:28):
came along and coined verbal judo, using verbal judo when
you needed it.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
So one of the differences I saw then too is
our bosses, the sergeants. I mean, we had Jack Burton,
he was a forty year veteran. He was a lieutenant
in charge, fortye veteran running the FTU. We had three
or four sergeants. I remember Sergeant Henry who wound up
becoming Lieutenant Henry. He ran the police room at one
hundred Centistry for many years as a lieutenant.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
So I saw when I made a callar I'd stopped
in to see him. Bobby A.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
Cappelli and me Ahearn. These were fifteen twenty year veterans
sergeants that were training rookies and it was it was
a different time and you really learned how to take
care of yourself and you would do the patrol car
with another rookie and these guys were a wealth of knowledge.
But just watching how they did things taught you the footposts.

(12:22):
One of the things my dad always stresses and I
always I used to tell this story to the rookies
all the time. You never know who your friend is
on the street, so you treat everybody with respect. There's
no reason to not the drunk, the drug addict until
you have to do what you have to do. So
I remember my first gun callar was October of nineteen

(12:45):
eighty eight, right in front of Porto Dark. It was
pouring rain. I had my dad's old rubber raincoat on
with the corduroy collar. We didn't have radio carriers on
our belts. We had these giant radios. We had use
a quarter to get the battery out of the back
of the radio and swap it out. They would look

(13:05):
like a brick. So you carried the radio, usually in
the inside pocket of your duty jacket. So it's pooring
that night, and I have the raincoat on the radios
inside the duty jacket, and I literally came walking out
of the front of the port Atarity building. You have
to catch him take a break, and there's this young
man and his girlfriend standing there, and there's ten guys

(13:29):
standing in front of him, and ten guys are facing me.
I'm walking up behind the guy and the girl, and
he's screaming and carson at them, and I'm like, why
are why are they killing this guy? I mean the
way he's talking to them and didn't put two and
two together and experienced. And I literally walk up to
the side of him, come up from behind him, and
he's standing there pointing a gun at the ten guys.

(13:52):
No time to react, simply reached out, grabbed the top
of a revolver and held on for the deal life.
Now I get the gun out of his hand, and
I'm standing there like an idiot, looking in my hand,
going holy crap. And all of a sudden, I hearbo
yelling he went that way, he went that way.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
I look up.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
The ten guys are gone, the girl is gone, the
guy is gone. And I'm running down the side of
the porta Darty, which is just a straight up brick
face on on fortieth Street. There was nothing there. The
only thing that was there was the Parole Building from
Manhattan in the center of the block between eighth and
ninth the avenue. No hotels, Now you should go down
to his three hotels on the block. Completely desolate, probably

(14:31):
eleven o'clock at night, and I'm twenty years old, best
shape of my life, and I chase this kid down.
I put the gun in my pocket, so I grab
him from behind. I get him. He's gonna roll over and.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
Let me cover him. No dam right in the face.
Let's be square than.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
Those seeing stars. Realize I got my gun, I got
his gun. We carried revolvers back. Then he's punching. I'm punching. Finally,
I get to a point where I just hit him
down onto the ground, hot enough that he hit his
head on the sidewalk, and I'm holding him and all
of a sudden, out of nowhere, I'm about to get

(15:10):
the radio out. I get an eighty five or ten
thirteen over the radio. You hit the sirens. I'm just
holding onto him until somebody gets there. I get hit
over the back of the head with a two by
four by his girlfriend. Where did she get a two
by four in the middle of Times Square? I don't know,
but we happen to be in the middle of the block,

(15:31):
directly opposite parole, which was closed usually closed at six
o'clock at night. This is ten to eleven o'clock at night.
There is no one on his block at all. So
at this point I'm ready to just let him go
because I got his gun. I'm in trouble. I'm bleeding
from the back of the head, and all of a
sudden I see out of this desolate, dark parking lot

(15:53):
of Parole. The kid's in trouble. It's all these drugs
stumbling out from the Pearole parking lot. And they chased
the guy off of me just enough that the troops arrived.
He runs down to night the Avenue head South, not
knowing he's running right towards Midtown South Precinct and everybody's
running up the Avenue to fortieth Street because it's only

(16:16):
five blocks up, and he runs right into the cavalry,
so the cops will show up. They see all these drugs.
I mean, most of these guys were form of vets.
All they did was drink. They had a horrible drinking habit.
And the whole reason I had that block is there
was a liquor store on that corner, and my job

(16:37):
was to keep them from harassing all the young women
going on to the bus after work. That was the
main function. It's just keep the corner clear on fortieth
and eighth. So I used to tell him Pearol's clothes
go down to Pearl and they used to say, oh, conn,
if we're still there in the morning, they're going to
beat the crap out of us. So I said, nobody's
gonna beat the crap at it. I get off at
two am. Before I leave, I'll come and wake you

(16:59):
out to chase you. And I said, by then you
could do whatever you want to do. These were the
guys that came out and took care of me again.
Never know who your friends are. So my dad looks
at me. He says, so, what are you going to
do now? I said, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (17:15):
He goes, you owe them?

Speaker 3 (17:17):
I said what he says, tomorrow, find out who was
there and take them to that liquor store and buy
them a bottle. So I'm figuring this is going to
cost me a fortune. I find three or four guys.
Hey you okay, we heard about last night. I said,
were you there?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
No, he was there. I was there.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
You're not going to make us go to coross No,
I'm not taking a go follow me. I walk them
into the liquor store and I tell the guy behind
the counter, whatever they want, so I'm waiting for the bill.
They all picked two dollars bottles of tea Bird, which
is just pure rot cut, so it cost me like
six bucks. I said, you know what, give them two
bottles a piece. And that was the way that story ended.

(17:57):
But again, they saved my life that night, and from
that day on, you learned be careful when you walk
up on something.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
You don't know what's going to be there.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
So we're not even twenty minutes into the show, we
already have the highlight of the show. That's that I'm
putting out tomorrow. We're not even twenty minutes in. That's
already I already got a great highlight to put out
the bard. So thank you just made my job a
hell of a lot easier. We're talking with retired in
MyBB Assistant Commissioner Kevin O'Connor here in the mike the
DWAPM podcast. I got to come clean and ran the
wrong intro earlier. I forgot to switch it up. I
didn't mean for it to be a beat intro, but whatever,

(18:27):
you guys get the point. The beat's coming up on Monday.
I'll get to that later. And that brings us into well,
you stayed in Midtown, not the NSU because NSUS were
going away at this point into FTUS, like you said,
And you spent six years well as a cop, that
is before you got promoted in Midtown North from eighty
nine to ninety five. And that's really a sweet spot
because again we talked about the city cleaning up. You
were there for the worst of the worst. Nineteen ninety

(18:49):
was the Crescento. We had over two thousand homicides in
the city. By the time you got promoted to sergeant
in nineteen ninety five, the city was really starting to
turn around. So those sixty years there's there on patrol
again being a part of the community policing initiative that
didn't get started, and Kelly and its first a as
PC continued seeing the cleanup, dealing with kids too, which
would play into your role later as we'll talk about

(19:10):
its Assistant commissioner. Those six years, I imagine were quite
the education.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah, and Midtown was a very unique place because if
you were west of Eighth Avenue, it was one community.
If you were between Fifth and eighth Avenue was the
Broadway Theater, Times Square area, and then the precinct went
all the way over to Lex, so you had a
little different world over there. I probably spent ninety percent
of my time in midtown, north west of Eighth Avenue,

(19:38):
which was then called Hell's Kitchen. Now it's Clinton. It's
not even Hells Kitchen. But there was drugs everywhere. Heroin
was huge. On Ninth Avenue. There was prostitution galoral of
Eleventh Avenue by the UPS Factory of UPS Building, there
was a diner down there. I mean we had you

(19:58):
had three different kinds of institutes running around. You had crackheads,
you had the regular coll girls, and then you had
the what we called the Heshi's. You know, it was
a different world on each block, and it was amazing.
When we made a sweep one night, we made the
mistake of putting two different blocks in the back of
the paddywagon. You have to grabbing a whole bunch of people,

(20:20):
and next thing you know, we had a fight in
the back of the paddywagon because we put a couple
of the Heshies in the back with a couple of
the regular girls.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Said they didn't appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
So we had a little riot at the back of
the paddywagon for a little bit, but it was Hell's
Kitchen was where I really loved being a cop, and
I had the opportunity to pick up a post. You know,
when you're two years on a job, you're doing all
the flying and the doas and all the fixed post
type stuff.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
There was a cop, Greg Mac, big, big man. He
had Jerry Curls.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
It was dark as night. His head was gigantic. I
think I had a big but Greg was a big
man and he would He had Park West High School
was his post and his fiftieth and between ten to eleventh,
and he was going to Mount It.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
He got an opportunity to go to Mount It.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Oh. I believe the connection froze with Commissioner O'Connor. Oh,
so we lost commission O'Connor temporarily. We'll wait for him
and you get back. In the meantime, let me say
hello to all of you in the chat again. I
mentioned John Costello, John Latanzio earlier. Okay, commissioners back now,
Commissioner you mentioned Greg Mac. Now before you continue for
thinking of the same Greg Mac. Did he have a

(21:40):
brother named Roger who was in the su and land
at the bob splot yep, same guy.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
One of the same quite a pair. Yeah, great, great guys, yep. Greg.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Greg was a mentor to me. He's a couple of
years on the job more than me. And I said, Greg,
should I take this post? And he said absolutely. He says,
you're the only thing keeping half these kids from getting hurt.
He says, but you got to own it. So I
took it, and I was just what they called the

(22:12):
Park West Portable at the time, and community policing Seapop
was just really getting going. So I realized that a
lot of the conditions that the school did graphic arts
of the old New York school printing was literally a
block away. On the front door was on forty nine Street,
but the back was on fiftieth, So he had about
five thousand kids traveling to the trains up on Broadway
and Eighth Avenue from the schools. So I talked to

(22:36):
the CEO at the time was Charlie Doonan, Deputy inspected
Charlie Doonan, and I said, I want to carve a
SEAPOP beat in this area because the beats that had
either side didn't want to deal with the schools, so
they carved a SEAPOP beat forty nine to fifty first
from Broadway to Twelfth Avenue, and that was my beat
and it basically covered everything that the schools dealt with.

(22:59):
I had Sacred Heart Church on fifty first Street with
the school, I had Saint Clair's Hospital, but I also
had all the conditions all the way up to Broadway,
so what was nice in the summer. I spent more
time up towards the Broadway sign side when the schools
were closed. But it was a full year type post,
but five thousand kids, and this was before constat, you know,

(23:22):
Bill Bratton's merger happened a couple of years into it.
The precincts had a list the top five problems in
the command at the time in order. The schools were
number one at the time because robberies and gangs. You know,
back then we were talking about the DDPS, the Dominicans
don't play. We had Latin Kings, and then we had

(23:42):
a group called the Decepticons, which came out of housing
development in northern Brooklyn in the eight fort Sand Street
York Street that area, and they would come in and
they would prey on these kids and they'd rob sometimes
by nine point sometimes with a hammer being a solo post.
I relied on the sectors and guys that had Sector

(24:04):
IDA was Steve o'hagen and Johnny Rhoda, both great guys,
good team. So if I needed something, they'd hear me
on the air and I'd have these guys absolutely on
point every time I needed them. And what people don't
understand is there was another group of people that were
my backup every single day, school safety agents in each

(24:26):
of the schools, and this is pre NYPD taking them over.
I had some great people there. The level threes were
like the sergeants of the schools and they had probably
half a dozen to ten agents working in each school.
That's ninety percent of the help I needed was from them.
And these are on armed guards and they were fantastic.

(24:48):
They were like parents to these kids, and anytime we
had a problem, they had my back. If I needed
something a little bit more though, it was going to
get a little hectic with some weapons, that's when the
precinct would the sector would be there. So a lot
of guns in the schools. I mean, you talk about
Bill Bratton. At the time we set up a Safe

(25:09):
Carter worldwide. Plaza was brand new at the time, but
the old Garden used to be, and the condominiums they
built on the ninth Avenue side. Richie o'donnella retired lieutenant
at of Midtown South, was the head of security.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
He let me.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Use the empty apartments on Night Avenue facing west towards
the school, and I used to sit up there in
the morning and i'd watch some of the kids, especially
when we had the random scanning, and I'd see a
kid drop a gun into a garbage can. Now I
want to make sure you make a collar with it,
so i'd have a school radio. I'd go down, retrieve

(25:41):
the weapon out of garbage can, put it over the
school radio, and say Code red, walking in the door,
I have the gun. And they would grabbed this kid
with no issue, no harm, nothing, And we had quite
a few of those incidents. But we also had kids
that were really good. You know, they walk up to
you and they'd see you on a con every day.
I was on forty ninth to ninth like a statue.

(26:03):
They knew where to find me, and the kids would
come up and say, oh, kind of I forgot I
had this on me. I work in a supermarket, you know.
Give me the whole spiel. Now, these kids are coming
out of East New York and bed Styck in the
late eighties early nineties. So I'd say give me what
you got, and they give me a box cutter or
a knife or something. I said you owe me, and
they go okay, okay, and they'd be oh happy because

(26:24):
they were going to school, no problems and just you know,
get rid of the weapon at the time. And one
of those kids came back one day he says, oh,
kind it is a kid in a Chicago bulls jacket.
He's got a shotgun. And I'm like, okay, whatever, you're
talking nineties, full length, three quarter length Chicago bulls down jacket,

(26:47):
and we're looking for it. And I'm in a three
wheel scooter. I was scooter qualified, so I used a
scooter be able to zip around the schools and get
up and back to the train station. And sure enough,
on fifty first Street there's the guy in this cargo
bulls jacket with a sort of shotgun hanging from a
shoulder strap.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
Sixteen years old.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
But the kids got to trust you, and that's when
I realized how that was my career path right there,
the kids I was I took to heart that they
would get dismissal would run out of those buildings to
get to the trains before.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
The massive crowds because they were scared to death. That's
a horrible thing to see. You know.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
Kids shouldn't feel like that running coming out of school.
They should be able to go home in peace. But
it was a tough time, you know, the Scepticons, gangs, weapons,
so I really enjoyed it. And the Hell's Kitchen community fantastic,
you know. We were we were at the long clock
in the morning, the four or five West Side posts.
When we came out to post, you saw I drug

(27:47):
dealers leave, prostitutes would leave, the pimps would leave. Hey guys,
that's it, you know. We were we were the clock.
Time to go home, nights over, the kids are coming
out and we were clear the West Side probably with
the thirty minutes.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
That was a different time and the neighborhood's changing. As
you mentioned, it's Heal's Kitchen. At least in the early
eighties that was West East Territory, you know, and they
were violent. You know, it was a predominantly Irish neighborhood
with the you know, the Irish version of the mafia
running it. And day. I remember a line from a
Law and doder episode, season one, Mike Logan and Max
Greevy where in regards to the West East, I think

(28:23):
it was Sergeant Greevy was quoted as saying, they slit
your throat while they do the sign of the Cross.
So you went from that to, as you said, a
more diversified neighborhood, and sometimes not in the best of ways,
that you factor in the gangs. And it was a
tough time. But I love the trust factor mentioned there
because as someone that experienced it myself with security guards
and also SROs. If you know, again, if the SRO

(28:45):
does his or her job right, that's a very unique
and special bond for a kid to have. And you know,
who's to say those kids weren't inspired to become cops
down the road themselves because of dealing with you and
the way you treated them.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
And I had the building for the Westies. It was
seven four forty seven tenth Avenue was on a corner
of fifty first and tenth Avenue, big apartment building, yep.
So when they got rid of when they forced all
the people out of the tenement buildings, they put them
in seven forty seventh tenth Avenue and six ninety eleventh Avenue,
which was on fifty fifth and eleven, and those buildings

(29:19):
stayed vacant for years, and it was all drug infested,
no windows in most of those buildings, and it was
a lawsuit keeping them from ripping them down. Twenty years later,
they finally won the lawsuit where the city couldn't rip
them down and people bought them up for nothing thirty
thousand dollars in they're worth millions now. But I had

(29:39):
the kids of the Westiest. The Westias were taken down
pretty much in the mid eighties, so I had the kids,
and the kids were trying to be their parents, and
it was a really wild time. When I'm standing on
a corner of fifty first and tenth one day, middle
of the summer, nice Friday night, the top apartment built
of partment into that building. An old man had died naturally,

(30:04):
so he was in the apartment for quite a while.
The apartment stunk, so the management left the door open
of the slider on the balcony, so the kids jumped
off the roof onto the balcony and they got into
the apartment, and they had not full size refrigerators, but
they weren't tiny.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Probably about four feet high.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
They got into the apartment and I'm standing on the
corner and there was a big marijuana trade right on
the corner fifty first and tent. They took the refrigerator
and pushed it off the balcony thirty stories up right
into tenth Avenue. Well, I'm standing on the corner and
it hit nobody. How it didn't hit a car, I
don't know, but it shattered everywhere, big lab boom. Little

(30:46):
hispanic gentleman, probably in his sixties, walks by Angelos Canfield.
That was meant for you, kid, and just keeps walking
like no big deal, just keeps walking. I'm like, oh, okay.
Next thing you know, they're calling death threats into the precinct.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
I have cell phones at the time.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
I get a call the base ten one, So I
called the base and then where are you? They sent
the car out to pick me up and brought me
back to the base. I'm like, what's going on? Somebody
called the death threat. They're going to try to kill
you because you're wrong. I said, its because I'm doing
my job. So I said, no, I'm not changing posts.
Were the police I said, I got a plan. Now
I'm the beat officer, now maybe for two months. I

(31:24):
start writing down in my memo book all violations I see.
Read it loud radio playing Jane Walking, every little violation
I can see going on all week. The next Friday,
I tell my boss I need some help. They put
a one in eight in the area and a paddy
wig and I took everybody off the corner that night,
probably twenty of them for violations, and we put them

(31:47):
in the system. And I didn't see them till month.
They weren't out till monday. How that you know, back then,
that's how it worked. Sometimes take you fifteen hours to
process them. Did it again the second week. They're all yelling,
sticking up their fingers the street at me. And then
finally one of them decides to come over. And I
won't say the name, but he's the son of a
Westy and he says, you're gonna do this every weekend.

(32:07):
He says, as long as it takes. And he says,
all right. I said, when I'm out here, there's no dealing.
There's a church right there, Sacred Heart. The school's here
when I'm here. That doesn't happen. I don't care what
you do any other time. And it worked, and it
was pretty pretty wild. But I had my taste at O.
West's brother Adams ran to school, and father neland ran

(32:29):
the church. And one of the Westy's kept parking his
flatbed tow trucks in front of school every single night.
So in the morning when the school buses came, these
two giant tow trucks were there. He says, Kevin, I
need some help. So every day write a tag on
each one of them. And I said, eventually he's gonna scotflow.
The head of the DOT, which also wasn't part of

(32:51):
p D back then, was literally down the block on
eleventh Davene the office, so I went down to see
it was a retired captain that was now working for DOT.
So I said, home, how hard is it to get
a heavy toe? He says, what do you got? So
I tell him. He says, here's my personal number to
this office, call me when you need it. So that
morning I'm tagging the car. Kids are walking into school

(33:12):
with their parents. These are old elementary school kids, and
there's the guy that owns the truck and he's cursing
and yelling and me, go ahead, write me a ticket,
call me all sorts of names. He sees me walking
back to the three will scooter and he's calling me
more names in front of all these kids and parents.
Brother Adams is there and he knew what I was
going to do, and he made the kids stay outside
and watch. I was walking over to the scooter to

(33:35):
grab my nightstick head of the scooter and at the
same time on the radio, and all of a sudden,
you hear whoop, whoop, woop woop coming from every direction.
It's early in the morning. It's like eight o'clock. Four
sectors show up and he's looking at me. I go, now,
you're ready to talk.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Click click. He's cuffed in.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
Front of all the kids. Brother Adams is using it
as a learning moment and he says, that's why you
don't talk to police officers that way. At the same
time he's sitting in the back of the RMP, two
heavy trucks show up, tow trucks from DT and in
front of the entire neighborhood, they towed his trucks out
off the block. It's great, you know, but again message sent.

(34:16):
He never made it out of jail when they found
out he was picked up. It turned out there was
a big, major case going on with this guy, and
they decided that was the time they were going to
drop it. Now he was going he was going into
the Bronx, smacking a window, a dent in the door
on high end cars and walking into precincts in the
Bronx with fake toe sheets. Wasn't real that he was

(34:42):
told sent there to pick up these cars. Here's the
tow sheets.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
So if he got pulled over, he had a toe
sheet in his hand, signed by the precinct desk officer.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Like, so apparently he was stealing cars left and right
out of the Bronx. Nobody ever saw this guy ever again,
So I had the benefit that the entire neighborhood.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I thought I got rid of this guy.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Well, like, there was write some tickets that have his
trucks towed, but he never repeated again.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
The Fed stuck them and he was done.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
He probably flipped on a whole bunch of other people
and that was the end of the story. But it
was a really wild place to work.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
It was a domino effect and I love that. I
mean back then something like that, you know again, I
go back to a line that Terry Tonic, the late
Terry Tonic said, and it's a shame he's not with
us anymore, but he always has this quote that we
remember it by never forget we are the police. And
that was the moment where it's like, no, wait a minute,
and I love what you said earlier. This is my post,
this is my block. I'm not gonna let them scare
me away. And that's an important principle that even now

(35:37):
police officers should remember. That is your post, that is
your sector, that is your beat, and you got to
own it, and you did own it. And I think
those lessons and you also had examples and great supervisors,
I'm sure even and we don't have to get into it,
you had examples and what not to do. But that
molds you for what would come in nineteen ninety five
and making sergeant and going to the fighting nights. So

(35:57):
was boss something that you had on your mind in
the early days of your career or was that something
that asked time progressed? He said, you know what, let
me give this a shot.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Now. That was dead.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
Going back to dad again, So my father was a
police officer for twenty years twenty and out union delegate
probably for fourteen fifteen years, did his first year in
a four to roh in the late sixties and then
wound up finishing in the mid eighties in the thirteenth
after nineteen years in at thirteen and he said, if
you're going to take the job, you got to make boss.

(36:28):
He says, at least lieutenant. His brother John was a
lieutenant in the four row. He did thirty four years
on a job. So my uncle John, they called him JJ,
was six', six involved in a couple of shootings WHILE
i was up. There spent probably most of his career
in the flour roh and retired eventually out of a
one fifteen in his last. Year but he said you

(36:51):
got to make boss because he was working three jobs
just to. Survive even back then at four kids well
close in. Age we Were irish twins a year and
a half. PART i was the oldest of, four So
dad was the one who convinced me to. Study SO
i did and made sogeant at nineteen ninety.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Five there you, go LIKE i, said and THAT'S i
feel like again looking back at the history of the,
city not anything against your previous. Time you had a
great time. There nineteen ninety five to nineteen ninety eight
is probably the sweet spot in your. Career you had
a lot of, them as we'll talk about, tonight but
that was a heck of a time to be in
The East. Village the city is really turning, around and
we'll get. So of, course going to The bronx che

(37:29):
An Ole Crime squad at ninety eight a little bit
by the time you left it ninety, eight compared to
where you were starting out In Midtown north in eighty,
nine there had to be some part of you, saying damn,
man we really cleaned this place.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Up SO i saw A midtown. Change it was just
when the lawsuit came, back people started buying the. Buildings
and then when it got to the ninth it was
the same. Thing the cut off line WHEN i got
to the ninth Was. Avenue that was where you went
from okay To you're crazy being east Of. Abonuey you're
in alphabet different.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
World.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
Yeah even my rookie, YEAR i was in the Topic
Good square park. Ride it's like everybody else in The Manhattan.
South So i'm, Like i'm going to the. Ninth i'm
supposed to go to the. THIRTEENTH i wanted to go
back to the command my dad left BECAUSE i had
sentimentalized AND i wounded up getting to the ninth and
it was A the exo To barrow at the time

(38:21):
Was Mike. Fox Mike fox was a cop nineteen years
in the ninth person before he made. Sargeant so my
Cousin warreen was the head of the policewomen In Downan's
association at the, time and she was a sergeant in the.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Thirteenth so she calls him up SAYING i Want kevin
to come to the.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
Thirteenth so next THING i, KNOW i get a phone
call and he, goes It's Mike. Fox, Kevin i'm like,
chief and he, goes your cousin's breaking My you gotta
do something about.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
It what do you want to?

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Do see he, GOES i, said weren't you a cop
in the Ninth he, says best place you'll ever work
stayed in the ninth best THING i ever. Did it
was the best HOUSE i ever worked. In like you,
said it's sort of. Changed my first week, There Keith
prunty gets.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
SHOT i was there for three.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
Days they get a job of a robbery in, Progress
AVENUE c And east Third, street a. Bodega it turned
out it was drug deal Was robin drug, dealers and
him and his partner got caught in the middle of. It,
yeah And keith gets hitting the shoulder and gets paralyzed
in the waist.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Down very tight.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
HOUSE i was also there When Scotty, kniff who was
the anti crime sergeant at the, time got broadsided by
a drunk driver coming in for the Inauguration JULIANI'S i
think second.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Inauguration, Yeah New Year's day ninety, eight.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Yep and it was right around the. Corner it was
On east Fifth street And Second, avenue so very tight.
House everybody was in the hospital that.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Night it was.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Amazing almost every cop from the ninth was At bellevue
And scotty wound up living quite a while twenty. Years
the seal at the time Was Michael, vises who had
quite a reputation on the.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
Job it was a tough, nut but he loved.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Workers he was a good, boss probably the best BOSS
i ever worked. For and he was The Ninth PRECINCT
ceo and he kept that place. Together The Priescinct club
actually nominated him twice For man of the year because
he took care of his. Cops and he did that
even With scotty twenty years.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
Later he kept up With. Keith he kept up With.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Scotty he never forgot his, people and that was WHAT
i really. Liked and every event we had at the,
ninth the alumni Were Aaron, droves you, know they were
you Know Donni modoon WHO i didn't work, with famous
name from the. Ninth they all would come out for
these events and support the. Cops my Cousin billy was
a cop in the ninth when my dad was in the.
Thirteenth he wound up dying in the ninth active died,

(40:50):
Cancer so a lot of ties to the. PRECINCT i
ran the conditions, unit which they now called The quality
Of life, teams and we just did everything that you.
Know this new team would go in on Thirteenth street
and At First, avenue make thereby their raids and grab
the dealers and the sellers and we would have clean

(41:10):
up to go in and get the rest of the.
Pieces so it was a tag. Team and the guy
who ran that new team was a guy Named jimmy
Shay dermocha's. Brother jimmy wanted to retire from the job
as a deputy. Chief so had some really good. Experiences
had a great. Team George, Krant Lisa anders whounded up
becoming a, Captain Ray, Casablanca Seawan. GORDON i, mean these

(41:32):
guys were fantastic and we took care of the business
and it was just a really good. Experience we made
a difference with quality of life and in. Prease Tompkins
Square park was one of our main. Things so when
there would be a shooting or a serious, Incident Audie,
monaghan the squad, commander, Goes, KEVIN i need to debrief some,
people so we don't do quality of life, enforcement and

(41:53):
we bring people in and they would do their questioning
and you, know cut them loose and they get.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Information that's how we used to do it old.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Days the street was the where you got your information,
from but we were a big part of. That one
of the things we had About Tompkins Square park was
they had the drunk sitting on the park bench every,
morning so if we'd have to go in writ some
summon just cleared them out every once in a. While
and there was one woman who we called The French.

(42:21):
Maid she was probably sixty years, Old she wore A
french made outfit every single day that she could if
it wasn't twenty degrees and they were always different, colors,
Right so we used to take everybody had to throw
a dollar into the kitty every day and guess what

(42:42):
color is she wearing?

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Today and that was one.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Of our first stops every, day was to drive through
the park and see what The french maid was wearing
before we went out and did some. Enforcement BUT i
loved that place so much that WHEN i, retired that's
where my, walkout my final sign out was was The
Ninth RECINCT.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Yep in that old NINETIES r AND. P i saw
the pictures online the end what the OLD nypd police
blue and white ones they used in the mid, nineties
AND i feel, like you, know you could. Again advancement is,
good and we'll talk about. That you could probably spend
the rest of your career there if you wanted to.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Easily, AGAIN i was still the juvenile. Guy So oviz
was the exo Mid midtown WHEN i was there as
the school, cop and they had just as many youth
problems in The lower East side as they did In.
Midtown so he, SAYS i want you to do something
in my youth. Program so IMMEDIATELY i took over the
three youth officers or three school, cops and we took

(43:37):
it over and we killed. It you, know we got
rid of a lot of the. Problems it wasn't a
major issue. Anymore we had we had it down pat
and a lieutenant got wind of what we, did not
only WHAT i did In, midtown but he got wind
of WHAT i did in The Ninth he was THE
ceo of the juvenile crime squads on Their Future Enforcement.

(43:59):
Division SO i get a call from him asking me
IF i wanted a. Job SO i went to the
CE oh and he said he got to be crazy
not to you, know it's a detective.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Bureau take.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
It and next THING i, know In september of ninety,
EIGHT i was heading up to The bronx and took
over a squad which.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Will transition to. MOMENTARY i just want to go. Back
i'm glad you Mentioned scotti CONDIF i knew about his.
Story he died in twenty, fifteen seventeen years after the.
ACCIDENT i didn't know he was A Ninth precinct. Guy
so thanks for bringing them, up because, yead that was
a very sad. Story you. Know it was just, that
literally just after midnight On New Year's, day when that
drunk broadsided him and he hung on for quite a,
while but his life was never the same after that.

(44:40):
Accident Keith, punty you, know to your, Point i'm glad
you mentioned him, too because again on the heels of his,
shooting you have to go back a year to ninety.
Four sean McDonald got killed in The bronx interrupting a.
Robbery Ray cannon got killed In brooklyn interrupting a. Robbery
so that was something besides the camaraderie of the house
that was again very close to, home considering the two
line of duty that's the year prior and the circumstances

(45:02):
under which Both sean And ray got. Killed So i'm
glad you mentioned both those, guys and what they did
is not.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
Forgotten BUT i would be remiss IF i didn't bring
up WHEN i was In, midtown AND i like to
Thank Jerry, kane WHO i always see on.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
LinkedIn He lewis brings it.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Up Tony dwyer pushed off the roof for the McDonald's
WHEN i was In, midtown AND i had a little
connection With tony that not only with seeing him In
Midtown south or in the.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
PRECINCT i was a. COACH i ran a cyo in my,
parish which.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
Was not You dame In New High park at the,
time and he was a coach in his neighborhood In,
almont so a little bit of a connection. THERE i
didn't Know tony that, well you, know but that was
a big piece of who we were In. Midtown everybody
came together with. That BUT i got to Remember.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Tony, yeah, absolutely his anniversary is coming up In. October
and during that time, too even though it wasn't in your,
command it was over in the Thirteenth Tony sanchez gets
killed in ninety seven on the. Robbery so we don't
forget either of those, guys and it's good to always
speak their names here in the. PROGRAM i will. SAY i,
mean even though juvenile was your beat and you're still
staying in that when you went over in nineteen ninety
eight The bronx Versus, manhattan you had spent that to that,

(46:11):
point the entirety of your career In. MANHATTAN i always
talk about this with THE fd AND y. Guys There's
manhattan firefighting and There's brooklyn firefighting and There's bronx. Firefighting
is it kind of the same thing at least philosophy
wise and approach, Wise burrow To burrow in THE, pd
how you do things In manhattan's different than how you
do things in The, bronx so on and so.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
FORTH i have to, say based on my, EXPERIENCE i
was never A brooklyn. Cops i'm not going to criticize
or say anything bad About. Brooklyn right The bronx cops
with the best COPS i ever worked with in my entire,
career hands down. Unbelievable the volume of stuff they had

(46:50):
to deal, with the violence they had to deal, with
even what was seeing going on this week up. There
but back then off the hook and they took it
in strike and they did what they needed to. Do
so it was an eye. OPENER i was really GLAD i.
DID i got to the squad up, there you, know
and this was like THE da squad For Court council
and sixteen seventeen year olds are still adults at the.

(47:12):
Time but we worked right out Of Family court and
we had two main, functions enhancing juvenile delinquent arrests made
by patrol and juvenile. Warrants now get we averaged seven
hundred to eight hundred warrants.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
A year in The. Bronx my. SQUAD i had five.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Detectors you, KNOW i was the baby of the squad.
TOO i had seventeen eighteen year veterans in the. Squad
they could find. Anybody this is before social, media before,
computers and you gotta, remember these are kids doing, robberies gunpoint,
shootings gun. Possessions they would get bench, warrants they scorned

(47:52):
from juvenile locations and running around The bronx somewhere to
find these guys was an amazing thing to. See TALENT
i had using post, offices, superintendent speaking to people on the,
blocks we found just about anybody we needed. To you,
Know i've said seven hundred. Warrants we cleared ninety six

(48:13):
percent of the warrants a, year and a lot of
them were knock on the, door leave a. Card mom
would make sure that kid got back to. Court but
we were physically apprehending close to four hundred kids a.
Year that's a lot of, kids and we did. THAT
i did that for four. Years not a single kid got,
Hurt none of my detectives got. Hurt, yeah we had
a couple of roll arounds a couple of, times but

(48:34):
nobody got. Hurt tactics was huge because for, kids their
immediate instinct is to fight or. Run that's what they,
did so we were prepared for. IT i was the
fire escape guy because my detectives were scanted that at
the fire.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
ESCAPES i don't blame, THEM i don't blame.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Them SO i took the fire. Escape so we usually
had two, guys two. GIRLS i Had, Janice Mary, Beth
andy Al perry And herbie you, know came along later,
on and two guys would hit the door and be
me and somebody else on the back side of the.
Building and as soon as they hit the, door you'd

(49:14):
hear the window go and the'd the head pop, out
go back and open the door, sunshine and most of
the time they. Did every once in a while we
had to get an issue over. There and what was
great is when they heard it was a, warrant they
would come and you'd hear the big truck going man
loud as, anything six o'clock in the, morning waking up

(49:36):
the whole. Neighborhood before they even got out of the,
truck you'd hear the key gun the door go click,
click because the person inside.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Knew it was coming to.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
Them and that gets to Where i'm going with this
is we had a building right off The Sheridan expressway
when you get off The Bronch River, parkway you go
on two or three streets before it becomes The Sharon.
Expressway there was a huge apartment building there they built
back in the day where you walked into the lobby
and it went up two sets of, stairs one to the,

(50:04):
left one to. Right so we get a warrant for a,
kid for a rob one and it's just me And
almi evis my partner at the, time so we run the,
Building we run the apartment and dad has AN a
one drug fell and he. Warrant so this isn't your
typical go get a kid. Warrant this is we got
to be really careful. Here so we get the four

(50:27):
eight over. There two kids show up from the midnight
AND i take, One al takes the. Other so we
each got one of the kids with us AND i
get on a fire. Escape al goes to the door
with the other. Guy bang bang, bang the window goes.
Up he pokes his head. Out i'm sitting right above,
him go open the. Door ducks back. In he's not

(50:51):
opening the. Door we are not crawling into a bathroom
window on the fifth floor and the fire. Escape call
truck right. Here they come and still don't open the.
Door out Comes Sergeant John. Coglin, Yes John coglin gets.
OUT i tell the kid watch the. WINDOW i come

(51:13):
down the fire. Escape i'm talking With johnny, goes are
you sure he's in? There and he's breaking my, chops
AND i, go he's in.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
There there's no.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Way the other side of the building is straight. Down
there's not a ledge on, it there's not a fire.
Escape my guys are still up at the. Door the
kids in the back on the fire.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Escape we never left. It he, goes he's not in.
There you're buying me.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Lunch So i'm, like, yeah, okay WHATEVER i. Said if
he isn't, there you're buying me. Lunch he, goes, no
you're gonna get a. Body so they suit up BECAUSE
i tell him dad's got a drug a one drug felony.
Warrant and these guys have to lug it up five
flights of stairs and they take the, door break. It you,
know pneumatic drill or whatever they. Used and they get

(51:57):
in AND i, Go i'm still in the fire. Escape got, There,
yeah come on in some. Figuring he's laying there and
cuffs and come. Up he ain't in. Here there's nobody
in the. Apartment i'm, like there's no, way so me
And i'll go in because these kids could hide. Anywhere
AND i keep it looking for it's five, ten one
hundred and eighty. Pounds this is not a little. Kid

(52:18):
he's a. Man he's, sixteen seventeen years. Old went checking
every crack and crevice, cabinet you. Know sometimes we found
him in, cabinets on the top of the, closet you.
Know everybody always hitting the. Bathtubs it's not. There So john,
GOES i want a chicken palm sandwich from The pines.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Restaurant SO i, said, Nope i'm gonna. Fight he's here he,
Was he, GOES i, said all, right he's not. Here
he goes.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Down he's getting, undressed he's putting the helmet, in getting the.
Truck they drive down the block And i'm, like, oh
how the hell did he get?

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Out it's this little.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Kids standing across the. Street it's eight o'clock in the.
Morning but now we're there for an hour and a
half or any and he's on the way to school
and he, says high, offices are you looking for the bad?

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Guy so my eyes light. Up.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Yeah SO i go over and talk to him and
he says he ran back in the. BUILDING i, said
what he came down the? WIRE i saw. Him he
slid all the way down the. Wire it was A
tv cable. Wire, jeez BLACK tv cable. Wire he might
he had a lot of faith in the cable vision
guy and he slid down this wire from the fifth

(53:30):
floor and ran right back into the, building into the
lobby underneath the. Staircase so we go back, Inside me And,
al and we hear. Crying he's under the. Stairs both
his palms right down to the. Bone, singed no bleeding
because it's. Burnt he literally slid down his cable wire with.

(53:50):
Hands SO i argued With. JOHN i said he was still.
Here SEE i told you. This he, says you still
owe me. Lunch years, later his daughters got on the.
Job one was a civilian AND. Dcpi one was a.
Cop aaron worked for me for a brief period of,
time AND i told them the, story AND i, SAID
i never got to buy your dad lunch because.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
Nine to eleven.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Happened, yeah SO i bought her lunch and her sister.
Lunch BUT i gave them a story and they laughed
and they you, know they. Hit we had a good memory.
There but the Juvenile squad was a wild. Unit we
saved a lot of. Kids when these kids were get in,
trouble you, know.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Whether it's they after care or. Probation they were the,
Bark we were a, bite we were. Dts they would
come get.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
You and we made sure that we took that to
heart because if we got these kids back, quickly they
weren't getting multiple.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Charges and the judges back then.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
Would actually hold these kids for a couple of days
and get them back into. Programs we didn't see the
recidivism you see. Today you, know one or two, warrants
they got a second. War they were helped for six,
months you, know because they were already found guilty of
whatever their charges. Were, Right but we were finding, kids you,
know we had them until they turned twenty.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
One but down the.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
EVES i bring him up directly directly because we that
was the. SQUAD i had nine to eleven hit AND
i was. HOME i was doing probably a two to
ten that. Day we flipped flopped AND i get the
call they were looking at THE. TV i turned on
and there's the first building on. Fire and literally jumped
in the car and raced to The bronx one hundred

(55:27):
and Sixty First, street where we were in the courthouse
was a free for.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
All people were running.

Speaker 3 (55:33):
Everywhere we got suited, up gotten to our onmock car
and we drove down the. Drive we made it from
The bronx down To Gold, street which is where our.
Headquartered so at three Hundred Gold street and probably six,
minutes seven, minutes there wasn't a soul on the. Road
everybody was ready out of the, way cars were. Gone

(55:55):
they shut down all the. Roads and then we got
assigned to The Brooklyn bridge at first to evacuate people
over bridge because we were out Of Gold. Street and
then we got sent over to the thirteenth and we
stood on the front on the, block and probably seven
o'clock that, night truck one came back covered in. Debris
now everything by then seven o'clock at, night the second,

(56:17):
building the boat buildings, down the other building building.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Seven the world to come down like at, Five, yeah so.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
No, traffic no civilians, anywhere and there's two Hundred Detective
bureau personnel expecting to go to the morgue that night
to start doing detective, work crime scene. Stuff we were
going to be deployed in that. Aspect, yeah it never.
CAME a couple of guys try to go over and
help the, truck one guys and they wouldn't even talk to,

(56:49):
anybody and they told.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Us don't touch the. Truck they were just in the.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Zone so the next day we wound up over at
the armory On lexington and we were we were taking
missing person's reports for the next three days in ninety degree,
heat horrible. Locations but on The EVAs wound up dying
a nine to eleven cancer many years.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
Later didn't even know he had.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
It so but we were assigned to the morgue and
to the site many many nights in the first, month
probably the site more than, anything and then we were
in the morgue until the Following.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
May but it was a good group of.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
People probably the only reason most of us got through
it is who we were with now being the. Sergeant
there were two teams assigned to the morgue each night
and we'd probably get it three nights a, week and
they were our sister, unit whether it's The Bronx Juvenile
squad with The brooklyn or The queens of The. Manhattan
two of those teams FROM fed were in the. Morgue

(57:47):
one would get the security perimeter top of w men's.
Shelter the other one would be assigned to the table
to assist the emmy if anything came, in and a
couple of knights were really Bit BUT i was on
the table the day they found the firemen under the
ramp the Following, APRIL i think at the, date but

(58:08):
they found like eleven firemen, completely almost completely, intact under
the last bit of debris when they started dismantling the,
ramp and they were coming up one at.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
A time every hour on the. Hour we sat on
the when our shift ended at seven. O'clock we did
twelve hour. Shifts we couldn't go. Home we were a.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
Mess we were a complete. Mess so they actually took
a couple of us home In. Carse we left our
cause there and they just drove us home that. Night
but that was a good group of PEOPLE i worked.
With we wound up going To columbia for a couple
of weeks after that for, help you, know gets just talking.
Out they offered the, job got some help for members of,

(58:50):
service AND i said to my, gosh you're home going To,
columbia and they, go so are, you you, know basically
taking care of. Them but they wound up, saying we're
not going to list you're going and we all. Going
so but, yeah but we we did something to do
with the, morgue with the Detective bureau or the site,
security which is probably where al got sick from all

(59:12):
the dust because we were right in the heart Of building.
Seven that was where we got. Assigned ninety percent of
the time the dust kicking. Up we were covered in
dust every single, night and that's probably where he got.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Sick, yeah and guys are still. Dying, YEAH Nypd captain's just,
died and here we. Are it's gonna be twenty four.
Years twenty four. Years there's more firemen and this is
crazy to me that died have died of nine to
eleven cancer than the ones that got killed that day
when the towers. Collapsed there's. More, now three hundred and

(59:44):
forty three died that. Day for, context everybody knows that.
Number more have died of, illinus you, know and forget
THE nypd. Numbers twenty three cops died that, day Including
Sergent coughlin Or coglin rather and, unfortunately you, know it's
been tripled in the year. Since And i'm glad you
mentioned him because before we, continue anybody who Knew sergeant

(01:00:05):
The coglin And i've heard a lot of great stories
on this program about. HIM i know his daughter's and
his widow very. Well it's part of THE esu mini.
Series many guys that have been on the show worked with.
Him he's a big. Guy, ever there was ever a
guy that you did not want to get into it
with if you were a, suspect it Was Sergeant. Coglan
i've heard somebody describe him as strong as an. Ox
so that was the last guy you want to tustle.

(01:00:26):
With and he was quick from WHAT i heard.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Too oh he was also. Hungry he'd liked to.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Eat so.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Call it a ready. Lad.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Yeah but one of the things about the nine to,
eleven WHICH i, uh it took me a long time
to deal, with not THAT i was you, know every,
anniversary even to this, DAY i do not go to
sleep before midnight.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Of the next.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
DAY i don't care how TIRED i. Am my body
cannot turn off until. MIDNIGHT a couple of years, ago
probably around the, EIGHTEENTHNNIVERSARY i FIGURED i was going to
just take the car and drive to every location THAT
i dealt. With Brooklyn, bridge The, armory the site itself

(01:01:11):
where the Old Saint john's used to be down, there
that's where we used to. Eat it's gone. Now On,
chambers and then to The, morque because every DAY i
drove up THE fdr. Drive WHEN i got to Thirtieth,
STREET i could smell The. MORKUE i can't explain. It
it was all in, here BUT i just couldn't get

(01:01:33):
that out of my. Head didn't matter IF i was
going uptown to, downtown that smell would hit me just
from the site of WHERE i. Was AFTER i did
that AND i went AND i took. PICTURES i hadn't
been back to Thirtieth street since two thousand and. TWO
i took pictures and walked the. Block it was a different.
Place it was like where the site is. Now once

(01:01:54):
the buildings went, up things were. Different BUT i took
pictures AND i ended the day In Longae city to
see the two blue lights coming out of the sight
AND i drove. HOME i never had that smell ever.
Again it was like a relief off my shoulder BECAUSE
i got to see it when it was, now and

(01:02:16):
it helped me to not remember what it was every
single TIME i drove by.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
It so it was really. Wild it took eighteen years
though to do.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
That i'm glad you were able to do. That And,
GOD i mean you mentioned one truck And i'm thinking
when they said don't touch the, Truck brian McDonald was
on that. Truck brian McDonald did not come home that,
day you, know and he was a newie man. Too
he had just gotten there the previous.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Year you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Know Said Bobby fazio from the thirteenth didn't come and
mour And. Maura bobby was my, Cousin maureen's steady driver
for ten.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Years.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Wow So maureen's, BROTHER i, Mentioned billy died of cancer
in the Ninth maureen was an active sergeant with twenty
eight years on the. Job she was getting tested every,
year blood tests just to make, sure and nineteen ninety
nine she gets a bad blood test and she wound
up dying of cancer in six.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Weeks from diagnosis.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
While active in the Thirteenth Bobby fazzio was at her
side eight hours of the day on the job and
then stayed eight hours on his own time every single
day until she. Died in, fact one day he prohibited
me from going in because my cousin had gotten joined
this and he, Says, kevin she doesn't want to see.
ANYBODY i, Said, Bobby i'm a. Cousin, kevin you're not going.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
In AND i looked at. Him he says to, me
fav you're not going into. That come.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
Tomorrow i'll tell you here And i'll find out what she.
Says the next DAY i did go see, her and
she died a couple of days. Later she was over AT.
Nyu But bobby was that kind of, guy you, know a,
loyal good. Cop just you used to see him every
day when you came, in sitting at the security desk
of the police.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Academy there he, is and there he.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Is that's one of the final photos and this is
pointing Of bobby on nine, eleven and you know he.
Again him And Morris smith were two of the first
police officers and are among the first police officers to
go down there that. Day morris saw the plane. Hit
she put it over the. Radio you can hear that transmission.
Online when THE nypd has a video discussing the women

(01:04:17):
who played a role on the response to nine to,
eleven you can hear her. Transmissions bobby was with. Her
and look at that. Photo it's obvious what he's looking.
At he's looking at The World Trade. Center it would
have been easy to, say you know, What i'm not going.
Back i'll just stay out here and help anybody who's coming. Out,
no and there's there's a great, story And i'm gonna find,
it And i'll take a moment. Here this is live, podcasting,
folks so bear with. Me but there's a story THAT

(01:04:37):
i have to. Share IF i could stop sharing the
screen real, quick that somebody Wrote Officer Fazio's officer down
memorial page bio And i'm going to read it here
because this highlights the type of copy was until the
end and see here and, again give me a moment
UNTIL i find. It but it spoke about a rescue

(01:04:58):
that he made someone who's been able to really live
a great life since. Then and AGAIN i Highlight bobby,
too And i'll find that WHEN i find that. Story
i'll be sure to bring it up and read it
because and AGAIN i mentioned this before in a previous,
episode not diminishing what they, did but the fourteen Emergency
service officers who died that, day Including Sergeant coglan And brian,
McDonald they were in, there As Chief anamone put it

(01:05:20):
in a, book because they were set in. There that
was their role to assist with the. Rescues they were
a rescue. Unit of, course it doesn't diminish their sacrifice
was heroic until the, end but that was part of
what they. Did it was part of the scope of
their duties as emergency service, officers which is what makes
them so. Great but what Makes bobby more so, Compelling
James leahy from the sixth so, Compelling Claude richards from

(01:05:40):
the bomb, Squat John, perry who was retiring that day
for crying out louds so. Compelling those other nine cops
of the twenty three they didn't have to go in,
There they had no reason to go in. There they
did because whatever unit they were assigned, to it had
nothing to do with their. Assignment they were police officers that,
day and they weren't ntil the very end And i'm
glad you Bring bobby up because that picture encapsulates the
type of, copy the type of person he.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
WAS i try to put that picture up every anniversary
because what you do special. People.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Yeah absolutely. Absolutely you end up making lieutenant in two
thousand and, two AND i will before this episode is
over find That Bobby fazio. Story we're not going to
finish this episode without reading. That you go over To,
queens go over the, story and then later on Iab
but then, again this is kind of the part of
your career whe you're bouncing, around which is. Good you
get a variety Man hattan for many, Years bronx for

(01:06:29):
a little. Bit now you're In queen's so as a platoon,
commander which is different than what you were doing with
juveniles of, course and the work you did with the,
youth although that would come brown later with assistant. Commissioner
what was it like to be able to just work?

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Patrol so what was?

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Wild is you mentioned earlier about the differences And. Borrows,
Yeah I'm, manhattan The bronx Now queens WHEN i got,
there and, Again dad was a good teacher for, me
and he, says you, know the best thing you can
do is go in and watch for the first couple of.
Weeks when you're the new, boss he, says all the
fakers will display their fakeness within the first two. Weeks

(01:07:06):
SO i went in and you, know everybody was doing their,
thing being on their best behavior the first two. Weeks
i'm the new platoon, commander AND i had the dayto
a platoon because the one that doesn't pay, anything you,
know no night differ or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Else so that's the. One everybody jumps off. First And.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
I'm, watching and sure, Enough i'm watching guys holding, jobs
not answering the, radio.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
And it's the.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
Veterans the kids will want to run, around and you
know they're still going. Home BUT i had a couple
of veterans that were play in the. Game we get
a job dropped call three o'clock in the, afternoon and
these two veterans pick up the job because it's a
block from the station house and they go three twenty

(01:07:53):
five NINETY x. Central SO i hear it all, Right
i'm heading back to the command to send the. Tour
all of a, SUDDEN i get a call on radio
from another. Sector another sector gets flagged down by civilians
on that. Block four residents have lived there for twenty
five thirty, years and the mailman who's their regular, mailman

(01:08:17):
and they tell the two cops something's, wrong and then
we find out that's the same location where the drop call. Is,
well needless to, say the kids call. ME i get over,
there AND i, said where's the. Landlord, oh it's some
woman that lives In Great. NECK i, said, okay we're not.
Waiting we took a crowbar and we popped the door
and there's the lady laying on the, floor drooling from

(01:08:40):
her mouth phone off the hook going because it's been
off the hook. Forever the son had called and asked
us to check and the lady had a.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
Stroke So.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
I'm the platoon commander, now so we had to deal with,
this and it was a much different way to deal
with it. Then most people probably, think oh they got
ib charging the. Specs now they got assigned to The
Tarborough bridge and the Con Head plants terrorism posts for
the next six months with no, vehicle no, meal good.
Luck and sure Enough union guys come in and the

(01:09:16):
complain and THEN i tell them what. HAPPENED i, said
so two guys did the wrong, thing then two kids
did the right, thing and we have a woman still
alive because they did the right. Thing do you really
want to go down this?

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
PATH i.

Speaker 2 (01:09:28):
Said my father was a delegate, too SO i, Said
i'll go whatever way you want to.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Go but as of, now that's how it, stands and
that's HOW i dealt with a lot of. Issues you
dealt with it in. House but those two kids saved
that woman's life just because of laziness of two. Others
so it was even though it was there a brief,
time it was things like that that happened very. Quickly
nobody carried a stick In queens we had the largest

(01:09:57):
housing developments in the. Country but he had a stick
in their. Car so, again letting it go three, weeks four,
weeks letting the sergeants run the row, call and Then
january second. HIT i became a Lieutenant november Late november
twenty two thousand and, two right After New Year's that's
WHEN i started making my. Point AND i walked in

(01:10:19):
AND i, said all, right we're going to fall in for.
Inspection you THOUGHT i hit them with a ton of.
Bricks they didn't even know what to do because they
didn't do that out, there and they didn't know how
to line. UP a couple of guys didn't have hats
at row, call a couple of guys didn't have. Sticks
AND i looked at the sergeant after he inspected because
he didn't know how to, inspect and he, said no, violations,

(01:10:39):
Sir SO i, said, okay Now i'm going to. Inspect
by the time we got, done we had twenty eight.
Violations SO i, said put yourself down for one two
sage and put it in the. Book just minor, violations NO.
CDs but the message was getting, Sent so everybody go
get a, stick you. KNOW i told the midnight platoon,
commander who's a good, Guy, jerry AND i, said you

(01:11:02):
keep your guys out until late. O'clock we were conducting
training this morning for the first. Hour so they kept
the midnight out till ten to, eight and everybody got
the sticks and we went. Out the next, day a
riot breaks out in these story houses at like eight
o'clock in the, morning like forty. People god knows what
it was, allver but literally the five cars shoot down

(01:11:24):
the avenue straight from the precinct and they get right
down to a story houses, quickly and everybody's getting out
of the car with a stick in the.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
Hand you had to see the. Crowd their eyes were,
like never, mind it almost stopped. Immediately it was.

Speaker 3 (01:11:41):
Amazing it was absolutely, amazing all because they got out
of the car with sticks in the.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Hand they looked like they meant. Business nobody got, hit
nobody got.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
Whack but it was the presence that that got established
that day and then the next day at the boots
and we talked about. IT i, said if you look
like you're going to be able to take care of,
business you usually don't have. To so it was definitely
a little bit different In queens THAN i had. SEEN
i love the, cops they just needed a little more.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Guidance AND.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
I got an offer to take over the juvenile Crime
squad as A. Ceo the lieutenant a had recruited me
was retiring and he reached out to me and THE
ceo OF fed did at the, time and he, Said,
kevin we want you to apply for the, job but you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
Got to go through the.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Interview SO i had to go through the detective iab
narchaic interview where everybody's in the, loop and sure ENOUGH
i don't get the. JOB i get sucked INTO iav
for two, years and that's HOW i wound up in
internal fetse trying to get back to the Detective.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Bureau so i'll you, know BEFORE i did find the
five yeos, Story i'm gonna read it temporarily earn a, moment,
RATHER i should, say but just as a, sidebar it
goes back. Again it's full circle to when you were
on the post as a midtown cop at the, time
and that was your, beat and you own that. Beat
same thing here here you, are, lieutenant all these years

(01:12:57):
later and instilling those same lessons in your. Constant wait a,
minute doesn't mean you have to go out there and
take care of business, preferably you don't have. To but
it's your, post it's your. Neighborhood you own. It the
community's part of, it, yes but it's your job to
keep it clean and. Orderly and that night it was kept.
Orderly job well. Done so here's The fazzio. Story i'm
gonna try to read this quickly SO i don't choke

(01:13:17):
up on the podcast, here but this is from a
one Name. Melanie she wrote this on the officer down memorial.
Page september, ninth twenty. ELEVEN a couple days before the tenth,
anniversary she, says thank you for saving my husband on that.
Day you pulled them from the, concourse got him, out
and put him into an ambulance before you ran back
in to save more. LIVES i didn't even know him,
then but your selflessness and extreme courage this day is

(01:13:41):
changing the course of. Lives please know that the man
you saved is doing great things as a foster parent
the children in, need that he rescues animals as. Well
he is a wonderful father to these. Children your legacy
lives on in him and in, them and in everything
they and their children and their children's children will. Do
they will know about. You you will never ever be.

(01:14:02):
Forgotten when Name, melanie spouse of the man That Officer fazio,
Saved september, ninth twenty. Eleven great, story great, story and
LIKE i, said we were not going to conclude this
episode without reading that. Story Officer, fazzio you are, remembered my.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Friend i'll thank you for that BECAUSE i never heard that.
STORY i never saw, that AND i really appreciate.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
That no. Problem that's on the officer down memorial, page archived.
Forever just one of the many great things that he
did over the course of his seventeen years in the.
JOB i talked about this a couple of weeks ago
With john, McCarey who you know of the finest on
filter because he was IN iav for a little bit,
too and as well With Commissioner, harrison who was on
a little while ago. Too it's not a fun. Assignment
it's described as the necessary evil of law. Enforcement you

(01:14:44):
do need, it and it's unfortunate you need it because
certain people can't do their job correctly and follow the
oath that they took and think it's just a. Joke but,
nevertheless it's not. Fun nobody wants to go in there
and bust fellow. Cops you'd rather this all be bull
crap and it's a false accusation they didn't do anything. Wrong,
unfortunately sometimes that is the. Case sometimes the cop didn't
do anything wrong and they get. Cleared sometimes it's, not

(01:15:04):
and you got to bring down some dirty cops and
keep THE nypd. Clean it wasn't, long AND i imagine
wasn't that, Enjoyable but how did you make it?

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
Work so ironically being involved with the, Schools so one
of the THINGS i did WHEN i was In Midtown
north is just a rehash real. Quick in nineteen ninety,
FIVE i got called By Wilbert, chapmans who was The
Chief control at the TIME, yes to testify at The
Mayor's commission On School. Safety so it was a huge
commission That julianni had put together to discuss THE nypd

(01:15:35):
taking over. SCHOOLS i was on the front page of
The New York times with then MY Ceo Diana, pizzuti
telling the story about a meat cleaver in a kid's
head and the DIFFICULTY i had with a principal who
wanted to remove the meat cleaver from the kid's head
AND i had a threaten to arrest him if he.
Did and that was the story on the front Page

(01:15:55):
New York. Times but that led to WHEN i made
WHEN i got INTO, IB i guess they look at your,
background what you've. DONE i wound up going To group fifty,
three which is school. SAFETY i didn't ask to go,
there wound up getting. It Timmy carr was THE ceo
at the. Time it was a, captain dynamite, man really good,

(01:16:20):
guy and he basically, explained, listen this is a necessary.
Evil the job needs do your job and you'll get through.
This most of the cases with school safety were something
to do with child, abuse sex abuse with, students or
drugs again. Allegations BUT i had two, cases one in

(01:16:43):
particular where an agent was accused of having sex with
a fifteen year old, girl and.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
We did our.

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
INVESTIGATION i was the team. LEAD i had two sojeants
with me and we proved that case and he was
charged with sodomy and went to. Jail we had another
case where an agent his mother had. DIED i felt
bad for this guy who lived In queensland one thirteen
and he fell in love with a woman and she
wound up getting pregnant and she had a, baby and

(01:17:14):
as soon as the baby was born she told HIM
i don't love you. ANYMORE i want you out of my.
Life the guy went into a deep depression and he wound.
Up he was probably fifty years old at the time
and he was probably on the job over twenty five.
Years he wound up getting caught up with his cousins
who were drug dealers out Of, brooklyn and they his
mother had passed, away and his mother had left him a,

(01:17:34):
house mortgage, free beautiful house In, jamaica and the cousins
had him take out a mortgage and buy new, cars
and they basically ran up his credit and got him
hooked on. Crack and when he didn't show off for
he was able for four or five, days we had
to find. Him you, know we're looking for a member of,
service and me and my team found the drug dealer

(01:17:56):
cousin driving His chrysler three hundred Through East york and
when we pulled the guy, over we arrested him for
stolen vehicle and it was a half a key of
coke in the trunk and we wound up finding him
in an.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Sro In bushwick smoking. Crack but he was.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
Dismissed but so that's what kind of cases we were dealing.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
With so it was.

Speaker 2 (01:18:20):
Inexperience you learned how to do internal.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
Investigations don't regret the CASES i, had BECAUSE i think
we did a fair. Job but we probably cleared eighty
five ninety percent of the agents that were accused of.
Things so in that, sense it was a really good
thing because agent's careers were in the balance and most
of them were doing their. Jobs but it's tough to dealing.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
With, Kids, yeah, YEAH i mean in, us and we
can't forget too around this. Time Warville williams had a
heart attack breaking up two fights back in ninety, nine
a little bit before you got. There and AND i
think that same year five right before you ended up
going over special, Projects Vivian samuels got assault that she
got hit over the head trying to break up a
fight and. Die so you, know their, job it's a

(01:19:05):
little bit of a different, job but it's it's. DANGEROUS
i MEAN i dealt with it to a lestri extent
here In. Connecticut not THAT i was ever AN, sro
BUT i was in a pretty rough middle school here
In New haven where we had some kids from some
neighborhoods that weren't the best and they don't care, man
some of. Them some of them were all, right but
some of them were very. Violent and you, know they
didn't care who you, were and especially if you were
a figure of, authority a, teacher a police, officer security,

(01:19:27):
guard they were more than willing to go at. It
and that's a scary kid to deal. With svery criminal,
period the one that doesn't have anything to.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Lose so HOW i get?

Speaker 3 (01:19:38):
Out IV i did my two years to the. Day
most people that usually get stuck until the paperwork's. Done
two and a half three years from a chief In
MANHATTAN r, saying we have a youth. Problem we need your.
Help do you want a? Job So i'm saying there going,
yeah But i'm IN iv for at least three or four.
Months he, Says, lieutenant do you want the job and

(01:19:59):
not need somebody to come fix our youth problem In Manhattan?
North SO i said The Great das was the borough
commander at the. Time SO i, said, Okay i'll see
you in a couple of. Months that, afternoon the phone
call came, Down you're. Transferred tell, Me CARL lexevii, goes
who did?

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
You CAUSE i didn't call. Anybody somebody called.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
Me but NOW i got to travel.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
From Eastern Long island all the way to the west
side Of. Manhattan SO i don't know how good this
is gonna. Be And Jimmy cecreto at the, time was
the head of school. Safety great guy Took. Jimmy BUT
i wound up in the borough Of Manhattan north AND
i was, told we need you to fix this youth.
Problem you're gonna oversee the, Schools you're gonna oversee anything

(01:20:43):
in the parks the, kids and you, KNOW i had
school sergeants in every. Command we did truancy, operations but
we did them practically and really had a finger to
the pulse with the. Gangs AND i started realizing what
gang was calling a, gang whether it's blood's they weren't getting.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
The bigger picture on a local.

Speaker 3 (01:21:03):
Level these were we WERE i think back in the,
day we used to call them, cruise you, know on Fortieth,
street hundred Forty Seth, street it was the Forty wolves
and you Know East army out of the projects on
in the two, three and we were getting down to
the nitty gritty and figuring out this wasn't narcotics.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
Fighting, uh this was. Territory this is you live.

Speaker 3 (01:21:23):
HERE i lived, there and we got that's where our beef.
Was THE ceo of P S a six Was Kevin
catalina and now The Suffolk County Police. Commissioner SO i
get a case and again going back to Juvenile. SQUAD
i knew the system inside and out with officer, children Family,
services with, warrants, probation all the agencies that dealt with

(01:21:45):
these kids out of the, courthouse AND i get a
call that they have a homicide. Case in the two
there's a robbery case where the kid had a gun
and on the school bag there was also a graffiti on.
It AND i was pretty good at reading this, stuff you.
Know Louis savelli was one of my initial gang. GUYS
i learned from seven too When seapop was. Started his,

(01:22:08):
Partner Steve harris was the squad commander of the two.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
Six So i'm looking at the.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
Bag the gang captain O'Toole calls me And terry O'Toole
and he, says do you know anything about? It AND i, said,
YEAH i know what that. Is Opportunity Charter schools on
one hundred and Thirteenth, street, Right SO i reach out
to the. Principal he's. Charged he's locked up with a
gun in this school, bag and his name Was. Edward
he's seventeen years. Old SO i get the guides counsel

(01:22:34):
AND i, said, Well i'm just kind of. Concerned, Meanwhile
i'm really just trying to get some. Information i'm kind
of concerned who he hung out, with because he got
caught with a gun walking towards the school by the gang.
Division uh do you Know? Edward she, goes, well if
you Know, edward then you got to Know Dave. Sean
they're like attached to the. Hit So i'm, like, oh,
okay who's Day. Shan she gives me the, name.

Speaker 2 (01:22:56):
SO i run Day.

Speaker 3 (01:22:56):
Sean it turns out he's got an office children family
services warrant in The bronx to one of the, people
one of the caseworkers WHO i knew for many years up,
there SO i reached out to. Her first name was As,
easy SO i call It easy and she, goes, yeah
he's on the way to the. Office now we're going
to violate. HIM i, said, well do you mind IF
i pick him? Up SO i pick him. UP i
get him in the back of the car AND i

(01:23:17):
stopped talking to this kid on the way to the
squad AND i, said you, Know edward got. Caught i'm
using his real first, name but his street, name and
he says. YEAH i, said you know he got caught
with the, hammer, right that's what they called the gun back,
Then and he says. YEAH i, said did you have
a hold of the? Hammer he says. Yeah so SO
i transport him to the two six squad because they're
looking at these two kids for the murder of a

(01:23:38):
forty year old man who they stole a cell phone,
from and multiple other. Robberies SO i drop them off
With Steve harris at the. SQUAD i, said here you,
go hand, delivered AND i. Leave later that, NIGHT i
get a call From. Steve where do you want to have?
Dinner he, says you want to go To Peter Lugas
AND i said. Why he, says he just confessed to
the homicide and three gunpoint, robberies including one where they

(01:24:02):
shot a kid and paralyzed them, Cheetz and he, says
how did you find out about these? GUYS i, said,
Well i'm looking at them on social media on a
site called, sconex which still stood For School. Network it
was like the first social media for high school. Kids
AND i, said they got the list of all the.
Names there's thirty five names on this list of the whole,

(01:24:22):
crew and they're all out of The Saint Nick. Houses
SO i start identifying government names off this list by
taking the pictures off the social media and looking through,
photos AND i start building a book of The Get money.
Boys so AFTER i get done with, THAT i started
identifying the crew out Of Drew Hamilton houses and a
couple other housing devotas IN psa, six And cataline is

(01:24:46):
s thrilled to death Because i'm giving him all this
information nice neat set. Books he becomes THE ceo of
the three two precinct and he, says could you do
the same thing in the three? Two look at all
the crews, THERE i, SAID i, said BUT i need
you to convince your other fellow. CEOs i, Said i'm
just a. Lieutenant next thing you, know we have thirty

(01:25:08):
two thirty three crews identified In Manhattan north And i'm
even starting to dwell into The South bronx because we
went from sconex to My, space which was a treasure
trove of a, intel To. Facebook My space is where
we really got. Started and the borough commander Is Phil,

(01:25:29):
banks who sees not only WAS i identifying this, stuff
BUT i was giving presentations to community groups about what
the kids in the neighborhood were doing on social media
and this is why this group is doing robberies and
this is where your kids fighting with this. School so
he sees, it and after doing all this work of

(01:25:49):
Identifying Manhattan north, cruise he gets me down To Ray
kelly at ONE pp AND i have to give this
presentation to the POLICE. Commissi on the way, Down i'm
throwing up on the side of the. ROAD i have
the flu, full not nervous or. Anything i'm literally sick

(01:26:11):
with the. Flu i'm with two chiefs in the car
that they're telling, me suck it, up get down, there
you gotta do. This i'm purple by the TIME i
get the. Headquarters if they're throwing up on THE fdi
drive three or four, TIMES i finally get. SETTLED i
get up, there And i'm in the room And i'm
giving the full presentation to probably a dozen. Executives and

(01:26:32):
he's sitting there and, he from WHAT i heard from the,
chief he likes to look at his phone if he's
bored at a. Presentation he, listens but he's looking at his.
Phone he look at his phone. Once SO i, said
after the, THING i got to get me out of.
Here threw up a couple more times way back to the,
burrow And i'm being told the next, day you hit
a grand.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
SLAM i.

Speaker 3 (01:26:52):
Said he, Says, kevin is supposed to be a ten minute.
Presentation you were in there for forty. Minutes he, says
you hit a grand. Slam, Okay i'll take your word for.
It i'll see you a couple of days WHEN i get.
Back almost a full year goes.

Speaker 2 (01:27:04):
BY i hear.

Speaker 3 (01:27:05):
NOTHING i, said, yes so much for the home Run Grand,
slamm NOT, lsa not special As.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Simon.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
Nothing phone call comes in from Then commission Of farrell
and says report the headquarters tomorrow and truss. Uniform So
i'm like, okay AND i go down there and he,
says The commission is going to offer you a. Position
SO i don't know what this. Says and next thing you,
know he SAID i had twenty four years on the
job at the. Time he, says did you take the captain's?

(01:27:32):
Test they said, NO i want to be a. Captain
i've already been divorced once AND i like this. Wife
i'm still married to, him by the. Way so he's
laughing AND i, said oh that's. SERIOUS i, SAID i
don't want to be a captain in an excel for
the next four to five years working god knows what,
hours which shifts what. Days i'm twenty four years lieutenant
in the. Borough i'm god right. Now it's a great.

Speaker 2 (01:27:51):
JOB i have my own. WORLD i have the entire
borough to. Oversee all the kid and. Gangster so he's.
Laughing he, says why don't captains tell me? THIS i,
SAID i don't.

Speaker 3 (01:27:59):
Know he, goes, well can you do what you're doing
In Manhattan north city? WIDE i, said, Well i'll probably
have most of the bronx mapped out. Already and he
looks at me AND i, Said i'm. Serious he, says
who's doing? YOU i, SAID i have one cop with.
Me the name Is Andy. DUNTON i, said this, KID
i took him under my wing after he had an,
incident and he's worth his weight in.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
Gold he's helping me.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
Out so he, says, well you can't do this as a,
Lieutenant SO i guess we're gonna have to.

Speaker 2 (01:28:26):
Make you a.

Speaker 3 (01:28:26):
Civilian and right there on the, spot you offer me assistant.
Commissioner and that's how that came about from doing the
work up In Manhattan.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
North and that was the next dozen years of your,
career which i'll dive into from the social media. Standpoint you.
Saw they will, wait, well we'll wait for the connection
to come. Back hold on just a, second let's put
up in the backstage while that gets sorted. Out we
lost him, temporarily but again appreciate all you guys tuning in.
Tonight this is right, Now episode three hundred and sixty
six of the podcast with retired in MY Bd Assistant

(01:28:56):
Commissioner kevin. O'Connor mister O'Connor ultimately did just about thirty
five years in THE. Nypd has n't back now we
have him back, NOW i should. Say, so WHAT i
was gonna mention is you saw the transformation in terms
of policing when it comes to social. Media when you came,
on nobody. Had that wasn't even a. Thought you were
copping the, eighties you were copping the. Nineties we had
all chat rooms in the, nineties but that was about

(01:29:17):
the extent of. It then around five oh, Six MySpace later,
on which will Become, Facebook twitter starts, Up we Get
instagram towards the end of the two. Thousands now forget about.
It you, know there's whole dedicated social media units for
police departments large enough across the, country not just THE.
Nypd so as this is starting to sprout. Up in
those twelve, years you were an assistant commissioner under quite

(01:29:39):
a variety of Different New York City police. Commissioners just
tell me about, again really Prowling, instagram Prowling, twitter sometimes
prowling these networks which are. Private snapchat it goes away
after twenty four. Hours kick was a very private WHICH
i used for a time WHEN i was a. Teenager Text.
Chat there's even an app where you could hide the
chat behind the. Calculator so tell me about staying up
to date with these. Trends more apps come out and

(01:30:01):
kids get more and more wise sometimes two wise for
their own.

Speaker 3 (01:30:03):
Good so the thing about gang members is they want
to Break that is. True they did twenty years, ago
they did ten years, ago and they still do.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
Today.

Speaker 3 (01:30:13):
Yep so what we got very good at is they'll
put something up and then they'll take it down or
it's on a site that will remove. It we found
ways to capture that information before it was, gone so
if there was an, incident we knew Exactly we knew
social media accounts for every gang member that we. Had
we had identified nine thousand gang members that were not

(01:30:33):
in the database at the time through social. Media and
that's when they got rid of the OLD IDs system
and created what they have now IN, ecms the Case Management. System,
yes because THIS IDs system was so, obsolete it was
it had members that we're forty fifty years, old how
is we the finger on the pulse trigger? Pulls and

(01:30:55):
the documentation we were able to. Use we had a
software at the time which was Called, palatine which is
a famous. Company they're into everything, now but it was
a military type software that enabled us to do link
analysis and put all this information that we were pulling.
Together but we also set the case law In New
york getting subpoena's warrants on social media pages to get

(01:31:20):
the private messages and what wasn't showing. Publicly we had
to go into judges and prove that we had probable
cause to get this. Information AND i had a couple of.
Detectives Brian moore was a KID i took out a
three to two god And brian wanted to go in
To hawaii for to be a cop for a while
after he made detective with, us and now he's not
even in law. Enforcement But brian just had this knack

(01:31:43):
of obtaining, information and what my job. WAS i got
to a point WHERE i, Said, BRIAN i don't need
any more. INFORMATION i needed to get it across the
finish line because he was just going in every direction
is it an unlimited amount of, information but we had
to bring it down a little. Bit so Finally brian
took the bron case and really did a bang up,
job and he went after the six four yds and

(01:32:06):
a couple of other, groups and we were getting to
the finish line with convictions in court through a ton
of warrants to social media subpoenas capturing the. Sites the
first CASE i did was With Andy. Dunton andy was
able to take Down he was familiar with The East
side Of. Manhattan he worked out OF a two five
for many. Years but he took down three crews in

(01:32:29):
the Taff johnson And lemanaus sixty four, members sixty three,
members all social media, conversations, captured thousands upon thousands pages of,
warrants all done, legitimately no. Entrapments when the case broke
And Gang Manhattan gang came in and did the arrest

(01:32:50):
warrants and.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
We picked up the sixty.

Speaker 3 (01:32:52):
Three there WERE i believe three homicides tied in and
thirty three non.

Speaker 2 (01:32:56):
Fatal shootings to this. Case there were zero. Trials there
was so much.

Speaker 3 (01:33:03):
Information the only thing defense attorneys could go after us
for is did we obtain the information, legally and we absolutely.
Did we dotted the eyes across the t's got old.
Lawrence everything was, there and the judges would rule in
off favor on each case brought about the evidence that
after maybe ten or twelve, cases they really had no

(01:33:24):
choice but to take plea barkings and those cases led
to four years to twenty two years in jail for
the sixty three. Members and that was the first real
social media. Case so we were trendsettents when it came
to the case law with that. Stuff but the work
kept growing and. Growing every squad started calling us about
it every incident that was. Serious so WHEN i, left

(01:33:45):
we had over five thousand cases that we were part
of with the social media, unit and it had grown
from just being a kid, thing a crew gang, thing
to every, homicide every. SHOOTING i remember sitting in the,
Hospital Saint Barnabas hospital in The bronx On july, fifth
the morning After july, fourth When Officer familiar was shot

(01:34:08):
and killed in THE thhv and we were able to
find that perp on social media while sitting in the.
Hospital the same thing happened WHEN i was down In
Walt Disney world on vacation with my family for my.
Daughter my daughter has a very serious genetic disorder called

(01:34:30):
Sam felipo. Syndrome we got to make a wish trip
out of, it SO i wasn't taking the job. Phone
this is about her and my kids and my family
because we're dealing with what is a term of illness
And Malcolm. Wood she's twenty years old and still with.
Us BUT i get the call that two cops were
just executed In, Brooklyn. Raymonds my, guys and this is

(01:34:53):
three o'clock in the. Afternoon i'm getting a call because
my phone is my personal phone is. Ringing only a
few people had that and. Enough It's andy and another,
Guy Brian didawn and they're already on A, SATURDAY i
believe were in the office working on at capturing everything
they could find on this guy and anybody associated with.
Him so you, know we went from a simple gang

(01:35:15):
thing to worsted or dealing with cop killers and memorializing.
Information but it's very powerful tool social. Media and the
thing that they had to be realized is the venue constantly.
Changed the techniques are still the. Same it doesn't matter
if it, snapchat, TikTok, whatever timely capture of information is what's.

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
Key hence the name The Smart, Unit Social Media analytics
and research. Team we're talking with retired IN Ypd Assistant
Commissioner kevin. O'Connor you, know the reason WHY i went
Oh god earlier is BECAUSE i, thought for a, moment
Different Brian. MOORE i thought you were talking About Detective Brian,
moore who was killed in a lot of duty and
queens different officer who's under your, purview and glad to
see that he excelled even though he's in a different
career field. Now at least he was able to work

(01:35:57):
out for a. While and the thing too that you
saw him like the common theme too about besides them
being bracket, doocious most criminals you find and it's the
thing that keeps policefe and business across the, country across the.
World they're pretty stupid because with the drill rap thing,
too you're seeing these guys. LITERALLY. Mf, doom The Late GREAT. Mf,
doom had a song Called Rap sniches where the point

(01:36:18):
of the song that he raps about is guys are
quite literally telling on. Themselves you, know back then they
would do, this try to hide naturally until they were.
Caught now they're on video with guns in the, video
some of them, fake some of them, real talking about
and NAMING i did, THIS i did. That and sometimes you, say, okay,
yeah some of these rappers are just posed in trying
to make themselves look, tough but they're not in real,

(01:36:39):
life they're not doing any of, that and they'll tell you.
Themselves some of these guys are actually committing these crimes
and then bragging about it in the. Video you, know
it's the easiest court case you could possibly put. Together
and by the, way before you answered, That Paul, rodgers
who's been on this show as part of MY fdny
mini Series best at The bravest he was a cop
at The Thirteenth, precinct, says, Hey, KEVIN i work with
you And Bobby fozzio in the. Thirteenth so he said his.
Regards i'm, like it's, like how stupid can? You that's

(01:37:01):
Why Bobby schmurder went To jill for all those, years
he told himself in his own.

Speaker 3 (01:37:04):
Songs and that was one of our. Cases THE gs
nine case was with the guys in My brooklyn. Team
we worked on that case with the, gang and you,
know we are not doing this by. Ourselves we were
the intel, gatherers and then you had, teams squad, detectives
and gang units that would take the information and be
able to push it over that line and make the.

(01:37:25):
Apprehensions we were just a piece of that big. Puzzle
but it was an honor to work with all these.
Squads the amount of work that they put into these
takedowns and cases, fantastic you, know it was very. Rewarding
but we did a lot of good work just using
that social media networking and the COPS i took these

(01:37:46):
weren't first grade. Detectives they weren't computer. GEEKS i needed
street cops that could understand the. Language like you talked
about about the drill, wrapping can make sense out of.
It these guys could put everything. Together they knew the
beefs and the nuances of what was going on in the.
Neighborhood that if we had a shooting in the seven,
nine my guys can simply plug into a couple of

(01:38:07):
the guys they knew were from each of those crews
and see who's.

Speaker 2 (01:38:10):
Talking it was.

Speaker 3 (01:38:11):
Amazing our news feeds were built to the point that
we were embedded in so many of these groups THAT
i could read a news feed and tell you what
a violence was in the city Of New york that
day just by reading news. Feeds the credibility we had
too was. Great LIKE i, SAID i believed in giving
information to. Community so when the gang would come in
to take down one hundred gang members in one, shot

(01:38:34):
it wasn't just a shot can or on the whole.
Community we were laying the groundwork showing community. Groups we
would get invited by community affairs or preset community councils
to show what was going on with these kids on
social media and put actual pictures up on a.

Speaker 2 (01:38:47):
Screen this is what they're doing over. Here this is
what they're doing over. Here we don't do that.

Speaker 3 (01:38:53):
Anymore you have to lay that groundwork so community understands
why there's such a big enforcement out. There and when
you do, that you have buy in from the. Community you,
KNOW i mentioned the three, homicides thirty three non. Fatals
we went almost two years without any violence in that
neighborhood after that take. Down you, know we didn't lock
up every single person in a. Gang we took the
twenty top people into three gangs and it. Worked but

(01:39:16):
the groundwork was laid way ahead of, time but very
rewarding unit to work.

Speaker 1 (01:39:21):
WITH i go back to Something Richie teams Brom my
dear friend who was retired out of The Bomb Squad.
No two passed away from nine to eleven cancer last.
Year when he would teach FOR dhs and after he,
retired he would always talk about the kiss, method to
keep it simple, Stupid AND i always go back to
that With richie because the REASON i mentioned is to your,
point the tools are right, there especially in today's day and,

(01:39:42):
age if you're going to run a unit like, that
or just policing in. GENERAL i get. It you don't
want to betray the gut. Feel you don't want to
betray the gut. Instinct and obviously with the naked eye
can see that's important. Too but with how much we
have at our disposal technologically, speaking and how stupid these
criminals are and how omnipresent they are on social, media
it's almost a ground. Ball so we don't have to

(01:40:03):
complicate the. Formula here the, formula as you, said the
groundwork's been, laid the formula's been, there it's proven to,
work it's not. Broke and here's the NYPD's problem now
amongst many other things that we don't have to get.
Into it's not, broke don't fix. It they're trying to
fix something that isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:40:16):
Broken they kept trying to sell us all sorts of
software to do. This the social media units are the.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
Software it's in that where they have the algorithms we
just used found a way to manipulate that information to
build criminal. Cases and you, know you talk about stupid
as a stupid. Does WHILE i was still a, LIEUTENANT
i had the schools one hundred and thirty Fifth street In,
harlem very busy. Place you have three main schools on
the drag on the top of the. Hill you had

(01:40:46):
a school up By City college trying to think of Ap,
randolph and you Have bred And roses right On bradhurst
and one hundred thirty fifth down And brock from the
precinct Third Good marshall was on the corner of the block.

Speaker 2 (01:40:57):
For the thirty.

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):
Seconds so you had all these kids. Traveling SO i
was out there a lot in uniform AND i hear
pop pop. Pop i'm, like oh my, god this kid's.
Everywhere Virginia, valerie a, grandmother was laying in the middle
of the intersection right in front of Hallm hospital with
a bullet and a leg just like the woman that
was just. Shot and he stolen, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:41:16):
Right in the. Face, yeah SO i.

Speaker 3 (01:41:20):
HADN'T i have a very good knack of keeping things
in my. Head don't ask me my kids teachers. NAMES
i can't tell, you BUT i can remember purpose and.
Faces and all of a, SUDDEN i see one of
my gang members running AND i stopp. HIM i, said
where are you? Going and he goes, WELL i, said
who's shooting at THE ygs or three five seven at the,

(01:41:40):
time that was the name of his. Crow and he, says,
oh oh, why which was a crew out of a
THREE H SO i knew exactly WHAT i was talking.
About two detectives that stopped WHEN i. Stopped they saw
me get out of cross so they stopped make SURE
i was. Okay they, said what the hell is he?
SAYING i, SAID i know exactly what he's. Saying SO i,
said get your butt, home get around the, corner get
home fort come and find your.

Speaker 2 (01:42:01):
Mother he didn't know me from a hole in the.
Wall he never saw me.

Speaker 3 (01:42:04):
Before he just KNEW i was using language that only
someone that knew him would the woman goes into the.

Speaker 2 (01:42:10):
HOSPITAL i go to a. SQUAD i tell the squad,
commander this is three five seven IN.

Speaker 3 (01:42:15):
Oyg how do you? KNOW i FIND oyg videos all
over YouTube and it's still up, today.

Speaker 2 (01:42:24):
Fifteen years. Later it's still on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (01:42:27):
Today the whole IVERY oig crew mobbing Through Times square
thirty forty d bragging how tough they. Are you see
The New York times building in the. Background they go
down all of a, sudden you, go, oh they, scrambled
probably because they see uniform In Times, square and they
run down into the hole and they're in a subway
and they're still filming, live and they start showing each other's.

(01:42:49):
Faces and there's one of the main guys and He's
joseph and he's holding a, gun pointing it at his
hand like he's a real.

Speaker 1 (01:42:56):
Badass so.

Speaker 3 (01:43:00):
Right next to him is the guy that was described
as the, shooter who was A Rice high school student
at the, time no criminal, record so he had no.
Photos but NOW i got him on. YouTube i find
his MySpace. PAGE i make simple cards with his picture on,
it AND i give it to the three to Zero
Anti crime because that's where he. Resides they get, him

(01:43:21):
and they get him in the car and he's arrested
in charge with shooting this, woman and he makes. STATEMENTS
i was in the squad when they did, it AND
i got to talk to. Him his dad didn't want
anybody talking to the. Cops AND i walked in AND
i showed his father the video From Times square subway,
station because he kept.

Speaker 2 (01:43:38):
Saying not my, son not my.

Speaker 3 (01:43:39):
Son he worked for the, city he was a good,
man his wife's Good his son just got caught up
in her own. Crowd and WHEN i show him the,
video he looked at his. Son he, says you better
tell the truth Or i'm out of. HERE i broke
the man's heart showing him in the video of his
son acting like a complete. Perp and they had taken
over a candy store downstairs and just from a everything they,

(01:44:00):
wanted the whole. Crow what's this guy on a dough
to forty? Kids the kid, SAID i, SAID i have
one question for. You why did you shoot the? Lady
and he looked at me and he, SAYS i wasn't
shooting at. HER i was shooting AT. O whe done we, finished.

Speaker 2 (01:44:15):
AND i was that's all we.

Speaker 3 (01:44:16):
Needed and he wound up getting four years in. Jail,
ironically ten years later he's dropped off at the, hospital
never get arrested, again left the, city was living In
New jersey. Somewhere they get a call of a man's
stab being brought it To Hallam. Hospital guess, Who, Okay
so he shoots a woman in front Of Halem hospital
and ten years later he's brought in with a, knife

(01:44:38):
wounds and dies on the table In Hallam.

Speaker 2 (01:44:41):
Hospital, yep goes, around comes.

Speaker 1 (01:44:44):
Around, hey you took the words right out of my.
Mouth that's literally WHAT i was about to. Say and
it's like the thing that annoys me is, well you
shouldn't be firing, guns, Period but if you're gonna. Shoot
this is the thing that pisses me off with these.
Shootings and it happens here and you have it. Too
if you're going to shoot, someone can you at least
hit the right. Target i'm not advocating shooting shooting as
bad as we, know and it sounds funny to say,

(01:45:05):
that but they never ever hit the person they're trying to.
Shoot it's like. Clockwork somebody who has nothing to do
with the. Shooting sometimes it's a. Child, YESTERDAY i was
a poor sixty nine year old woman with a walker
who was simply walking through her. Neighborhood god forbid they
actually hit the person they're trying to. Shoot it's always somebody.
Innocent and did that woman that got shot in the

(01:45:26):
leg at least did she? Live?

Speaker 3 (01:45:27):
Yes, okay, good at least she'd. Live she was sixty.
Six it's coming into my head. Down she was sixty
six years old when she got. It this is three
o'clock and you haveternoon with.

Speaker 1 (01:45:37):
Kids down the street at. School it's just you know.

Speaker 3 (01:45:40):
Again but the REASON i know about these, guys like you,
said we have the technology that first CASE i talked
About edwin And, DASHAWAN i would make SURE i had
an alert that if they got moved Into crimina in
the jail, SYSTEM i would know about, it SO i
know when these guys get. Out nice to get an
alert from E courts And jayshaun gets out and sure
ENOUGH i find him still using the same exact social

(01:46:04):
media sites that he had when he went, in and
he's driving around The bronx doing gunpoint. Robberies we notify The,
bronx send them the, pictures and he gets apprehended doing gunpoint.

Speaker 2 (01:46:17):
Robberies he's back in jail. Today he's still in. Jail
he should.

Speaker 3 (01:46:22):
Be but again this they don't care that we know
that we're doing. This they just assume we're not doing.
It and it's up TO us law enforcement to make
sure we are doing.

Speaker 1 (01:46:31):
It you know what. Too on top of, that that's
majority of the crime rate In New York. City it's.
Recidivist you address your, recidivist you keep your recidivist locked.
Up it's a miracle how much that does to drive
the crime right, now it's domino. Effect you take care
of those guys like you did earlier with the top.
Twenty as you were talking about everything, else you, know
it levels out and NOW i will, say technologically, speaking

(01:46:52):
charges to keeping up with these. MISCREANTS. Jagbt now that's
another tool that everybody's. USING i use it all the.
Time you, know THE nypd using. It you, know talk
about another ground. Ball they use it. Correctly there's another
way to keep taking these guys and break them down
as soon as they get out of. Line.

Speaker 3 (01:47:07):
Yep so after, that When Dermott shay became he was
chief of detectives WHILE i was doing all the smart. Work,
yeah he becomes the police, commissioner AND i had stayed on.
TOP i was the youth expert through the job with
everything because of the juvenile. SQUAD i knew everything about.
It when they needed, INFORMATION i could get it Through
Office Children Family, services if the kid had a, warrant

(01:47:30):
just different tools to bring to the. Table so when
he became the police, commissioner smart was running. Smooth we
had won a unit, citation multiple. Awards we won THE.
IACP i think we were the ONLY nypd unit to
win THE Iacp First prize For Investigative techniques in twenty.
Thirteen we won. That that was a great honor that we.

(01:47:51):
Got we went down In. Philly of course the year we.

Speaker 2 (01:47:54):
Went it's In. Philly it's not In San. Diego it's
not In. Florida it's In. Philly so the offense To.

Speaker 1 (01:47:59):
Philly But i've been To, Billy San, Diego, Philly San.

Speaker 3 (01:48:03):
Diego BUT i had taken that as far AS i
THOUGHT i could take, it AND i wanted to get
back to the kids BECAUSE i saw such a lack
and it raised the age was killing. Us SO i
asked to go back and do. Something And shay, said
what do you want to. Do so he made that his,
platform and of COURSE covid hits three months into. It

(01:48:25):
so we did the best we, could but we created
the Whole watcheo program really got into dealing with the
youth recidivism to counter to raise the. Age we knew
who the bad kids. Were to this, Day i'm still
posting stuff On LinkedIn about this raise the age. Stuff
WHEN i left my recidivius top recidivist had eighty eight

(01:48:47):
arrests by his eighteenth. Birthday seventy four of them were for.
Robbery so people didn't believe me WHEN i told them.
THAT i, said, well your top ten recidivus of juveniles
that are still juveniles according to the new, law have
over four.

Speaker 2 (01:49:02):
Hundred and fifty arrests between. THEM i, said so imagine.

Speaker 3 (01:49:06):
This we stopped this kid by his fourth, arrest there
would be four hundred less victims in this city Of New,
york some of our last felony. Crimes not to, mention
most of those victims are other. Kids, yeah it's, disgusting it,
is you, Know AND i post stuff recently about what's
going on with the. Kids you have fourteen year old

(01:49:27):
kids stepped to death In Williamsburg, Oval Williams Bridge oval
in The bronx three weeks, ago didn't even hear about.
IT a couple of days, later you get four kids
shot outside of. School don't even hear about. It and
this is all within the last three or four.

Speaker 2 (01:49:40):
Weeks you.

Speaker 3 (01:49:41):
Know it's the problem is the media doesn't like to any,
administrations including the police, department doesn't like to talk about
this stuff because when it comes to, kids it's hard
to talk about violence for. Kids you, know we see
the ascension school thing going on right, now but that's
every day In New. York you have to keep on
top of, us but it gets no traction. Whatsoever it's

(01:50:03):
a shame and youth crimes up seventy percent in the
last five, years you, know talking thousands of kids being,
robbed causing more gang members because they need their own,
protection so they join gangs to protect. Themselves and the
cycle just keeps repeating and it's just getting worse by the.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
Day so it's it's.

Speaker 3 (01:50:22):
Disheartening but that's WHERE i left, it AND i tried
to train the next group of cops on how to
deal with juveniles and, kids and it was at LEAST
i was able to do WHAT i wanted to do
the WAY i, STARTED i finished at the.

Speaker 1 (01:50:36):
End and the thing that makes our particular conversation that
we're having tonight unique is that you're not out that.
Long you're only out two, years you, Know so your
finger on the. PULSE i, MEAN i know the gripe
that some now What i'm not going to, name and
we know Who i'm talking, about have that are currently
higher up in the department have with retired members As,

(01:50:56):
oh they've been gone a, while so how can they
know what's going? On? Now do you really want to
challenge a guy who was as heavily involved as you,
Were and it's only gone to two, Years it's really not, much,
unfortunately has changed in those two, years you. Know so
when you see, IT i, mean as you, said you've
hit it on the. Head it's.

Speaker 3 (01:51:11):
Disheartening, well my biggest beef for the department is the
lack of leadership in taking care of the. Personnel that
is the number one. Problem we are burning people at
both ends of the. STICK i, mean this weekend is
the worst weekend of the. Year there are guys that

(01:51:32):
are going to be working twenty thirty forty hours with
juve The Labor day. Parade that's not leadership of. Management
you can't work people like. That cops need a quality of.
Life you need to be able to see your. Kids
you need to be able to Say i'm off. Tomorrow
it can't just be. NonStop we're going to surge a

(01:51:52):
thousand cops to the bronx where you are getting them.
From there's only thirty three thousand. Cops every time they
put a class in and it barely makes up what
they lost in the previous six. Months they have to
start understanding that because they're just burning people. Out there
are still plenty of people that want to do the.
Job we just saw. It a thousand kids just went
into the. Academy they want to join.

Speaker 2 (01:52:15):
For the right.

Speaker 3 (01:52:15):
Reason it's the. Jobs it's suicides in the police. Department
don't even get me started with. Those they don't even
talk about. Them you, Know, oh we have help for. You,
no you're causing a lot of the. Stress the stress
of the street was always the stress of the. Street
the stress of the bad guy was always the stress
of the bad. Guy the stress from the job should

(01:52:37):
not be where it is right now and where it's
been the last couple of.

Speaker 2 (01:52:40):
Years and that's the. Killer that's why they can't retain.
Cops guys make it two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
a year because of all the. Overtime that can't sustain
that financially or. Physically they can't do. That it's just not.

Speaker 3 (01:52:57):
Fair and that gets back to me with my dad
and being a. Cop family on the. Job generations were
burning the people. Out you, know you see executives leaving
because they just want a. Life they take other careers
when a lot of. US i left on my own.
Terms and LIKE i, SAID i got. ON i was
twenty years, OLD i had thirty five years and a.

(01:53:18):
DAY i took an extra day just to SAY i
had one extra. Day BUT i was fifty five years
old WHEN i. LEFT i still had plenty of time to,
stay and it was in a civilian title like because
stayed even. Longer look at The, deletori he's in his
mid sixties and he's still. There resnick like that, act you,
know and you talk about Investigators Joe resnick And sean,

(01:53:38):
O'Toole anything ever, happened those are the two People i'd
want to do.

Speaker 2 (01:53:42):
It consummate professionals.

Speaker 1 (01:53:44):
And investigators here's your, walkout.

Speaker 3 (01:53:47):
Yep AND i had a great compliment from, it still,
active three star. Chief he, Said, kevin you had the
most unusual Walkout i've ever been to in my. Career
AND i, said what do you? Mean he, said you
had more community there than you had. Cops AND i
had a lot of cops, there, boss BUT i had
haull of mothers save the group of parents who've lost

(01:54:08):
kids or young their sons and daughters to gun. Violence
jackie Row adams coach degree FROM Mo Better football was.
THERE i had community groups from all over the. Place
that was the best COMPLIMENT i had this WHEN i
saw the community THAT i worked for come out and
that's my.

Speaker 2 (01:54:25):
Granddaughter that's.

Speaker 1 (01:54:27):
Good this is my favorite photo of your walk to
keep very cute one.

Speaker 3 (01:54:31):
And from From, headquarters which was not my last. Stop
we all took a caravan to the Ninth precinct and
that's where it left.

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
A good place to end. It i'm gonna get into
the rabbid fire. On you, know this has been again
a heck of a. Conversation we're almost at two, hours
so we covered a lot of ground. TONIGHT i appreciate
because you've had a career worth talking about for two.
HOURS i ALREADY i don't even want to ask because
this was the first, question a rabbit. Fire BUT i
feel like he kind of answered, it So i'm gonna.
Skip it was gonna be both rewarding ro you, had
but you pretty much answered that very, articularly So i'll

(01:55:03):
skip over that one besides that one second, question the rabbit.
Fire so we'll make it four questions. Tonight one moment
that defines your career if you had to pick.

Speaker 3 (01:55:11):
One with the kids cop In Midtown north forty ninth
and fiftieth and, ninth eight thirty in the, MORNING i
hear his kids screaming at the top of the lungs a,
baby like somebody's beating a. CHILD i look up and
there's this little three year old crawling out a window
onto a fire.

Speaker 2 (01:55:27):
ESCAPE.

Speaker 3 (01:55:28):
O so those two GUYS i talked, About steve, O'hagen Johnny.
RHODA i get on the, RADIO i can't get in
the front. Door they lift me up to get to the.
FIRESCAPE i was a lot lighter THAN i am, now
and trust me UP i get onto the. Fireescape probably
WHY i got fire escape in The bronx jewvenile squad
AND i go climbing. Up they finally get in the

(01:55:49):
door and they break the door down from inside As
i'm grabbing the child as she you know how a
fire escape, is the ladder is on an, angle and
there she's falling through the whole As i'm going out
with the, ladder and by the grace Of, GOD i
reached out and grabbed the body ankle falling through the
hole on the fourth, floor holding onto a fire escape

(01:56:11):
that's now coming off the. Building and there's my two
partners in the, window grabbing the fire escape and pulling,
it and we get the baby in and we find
out the mother had a heroin addiction and had locked
the padlock on the outside of the door and forgot
to close the. Window left the baby, home but, kids
kids of my defining moment with the. JOB i got

(01:56:35):
cards from that girl's grandmother and her for many, years
AND i just sawt of obituary that the grandmother passed
away last year this Year. May, so you, know even
thirty years, LATER i still remember that incident like.

Speaker 1 (01:56:49):
Yesterday wherever that girl, Is should you ever see this young,
WOMAN i hope you're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:56:54):
Well and her name Is.

Speaker 3 (01:56:56):
Christina SO i still remember her, name BUT i, said
that's Why god wanted me to be a. Copy that
little girl's alive today because of.

Speaker 1 (01:57:04):
That very. Nice another another highlight of this. Program, again
we talked about the programs that you've been able to
impact young. People you've been able to Impact you've answered
that pretty. Well So i'll switch the. Question you worked
in a lot of cool. Assignments you worked in a
lot of cool. Units if there was one unit you
didn't work in over the course of your career that
you would have liked to looking back at, it what's
one unit you could have seen yourself being in and really.

Speaker 3 (01:57:24):
SUCCEEDING i THINK i didn't take The captain's, Test LIKE i,
said way my life was. GOING i was happy being a. Lieutenant,
YEAH i would love to have been a priest and.
COMMANDER i REALLY i just loved the. PATROL i love
the men and women in the precincts and the PSAs
and the. Districts BUT i would have loved to at

(01:57:45):
least had that. CHANCE i never took the chance because
my career took me somewhere. Else BUT i would have
loved to have been a priest and commander WHEN i
was on. Patrol loved that opportunity BECAUSE i think that's
one of the toughest jobs in The City.

Speaker 1 (01:58:00):
York, yeah that would have BEEN i could. SEE i,
mean you had a, platoon SO i step up from.
That it would have been very. GOOD i could see.
It i'm not just saying that because you're sitting here
judging by the career you had to. Respect so many
people have for. You AS i mentioned earlier with the
PROMO i put, OUT i could see you being successful
with that best advice back when you were starting now
eighty eight eighty nine that you got as a, rookie.

Speaker 3 (01:58:21):
Probably from my, dad about knowing that you don't know
who your friends are going to, be and that applied
not only to that incident with the, gun but even
walking a. Beat you, Know i'd have people on the
wall spread. Out we don't do that, anymore you, know
by myself on, foot drug dealing going, on and you'd
stop somebody and do a pat, down and all of
a sudden you'd hear the sirens and one of the

(01:58:43):
neighbors called nine one, one.

Speaker 2 (01:58:44):
So that cop needs. Help we didn't have cell, phones you,
Know but then.

Speaker 3 (01:58:47):
You realize you go, Now i'm, Fine, central BUT sector
would still take a ride by to make sure you were.
Okay so is make it knowing who your friends really
are could be somebody in a window and kept me
safe for thirty five.

Speaker 1 (01:58:59):
Years amen to. That and then the last, Question LIKE i,
said it's only four, tonight because you covered the first
one pretty. Well you know it's only been a couple of. Years,
nevertheless you had a hell of a run for those
thirty five, years and a day should be At what
do you miss most about the job when you look back.

Speaker 3 (01:59:14):
The stuff going on in The bronx right, NOW i
would be neck deep in, it whether it's the gang,
angle the kid, angle the shooting, angle the investigative with
the social.

Speaker 2 (01:59:23):
MEDIA i miss.

Speaker 3 (01:59:24):
THAT i do miss that getting into the thick of,
it LITTLE, PTSD i guess over many, years but WHEN
i KNOW i can bring something to the, table.

Speaker 2 (01:59:36):
It's hard to watch. That but it's somebody else's turn right.
Now so BUT i do miss.

Speaker 1 (01:59:40):
THAT i can. Understand this has been again a heck
of a. CONVERSATION i really enjoyed. It stick, around we'll
talk off. There i'm just going to say goodbye to the.
Audience but BEFORE i do AS i always. Do you
know by, now at the end of the, show if
the guest has any shoutouts the floors. There so if
you got any, shoutouts fire away, Commission.

Speaker 3 (01:59:56):
So shout out to every single cop that's out there
wearing the any. Uniform keep doing what you're.

Speaker 2 (02:00:02):
Doing we need.

Speaker 3 (02:00:03):
You it's a good. Job make it your. Job don't
make it my. Job make it your, job and look
at the brighter side of. Things you're gonna see and
do things that nobody else in this world can. Do
the opportunity is there every single. Day it's a matter
whether you want to take it or. Not but the
job can be very rewarding if you want it.

Speaker 2 (02:00:21):
Today and thank. You stay.

Speaker 1 (02:00:23):
Safe, YES i couldn't say that any better myself IF i,
tried so thank you very. Much LIKE i, said we'll
talk off. Here i'm really glad we got the chance
to link up on the show and. Talk thanks to.
Everybody as, always you know the drill by, NOW i
appreciate all of you who tuned in rather you watched on, YouTube,
LinkedIn facebook or x, Slash, twitter whatever it is and
you may call. It and those of you that'll listen
later on coming up next to The Mikey New mey. Podcast,

(02:00:45):
accidentally LIKE i, SAID i mistakenly rolled The beat introduction.
Tonight this wasn't a beat. Show it's more of a generalized.
Interview but you will get The beat profiles of police
nationwide This monday for what'll be volume. Nineteen, peterstrowski who
is a customs agent back When customs was up it
from border patrol in the eighties and, nineties investigated a
lot of narcotics cases both here at, home domestically and

(02:01:06):
of course abroad as. Well thirty one years in law. Enforcement,
ultimately so very much looking forward to that conversation and
Next friday for what will be another volume of the,
best the bravest interviews with the fdn ys. Elite he
had a big hand back when THE fd AND y
And New York city ems merged in the spring of
nineteen ninety six in that transition because he was involved
in the transition. Team So i'm gonna get the layout

(02:01:27):
a merger that turns thirty years old next spring on
what exactly went down behind the scenes with that From
Bill gross who will join me for that volume. Again
strowsky This monday at, Six Bill gross Next friday at
six as, well barring anything. Unforeseen, now for those of
you listening on the audio, side they originally recorded this
when they were Writing My generation album back in nineteen sixty.
Five they didn't put out this song until nineteen sixty,

(02:01:49):
eight and that is the Who tonight coming your way
with Magic bus in the, meantime on behalf of RETIRED
Nypd Assistant Commissioner kevin, O'Connor i Am Mike, cologne and
we will see you next. Time to care every have
a great seacat and stay.

Speaker 4 (02:02:01):
Safe every DAY i get a cute to get on the,

(02:02:29):
bus it takes me to.

Speaker 2 (02:02:30):
YOU i, Mean i'm so gr aside just sitting and.
Smile i've been bought the. House she's only another.

Speaker 4 (02:02:40):
MILE i thank You tom for getting me.

Speaker 2 (02:02:45):
HERE i didn't want to be an inspect to have no.

Speaker 1 (02:02:50):
FEAR i.

Speaker 2 (02:02:54):
Don't want to come us.

Speaker 4 (02:02:57):
And didn't wal but cannot buy your magic.

Speaker 2 (02:03:01):
FUSS i don't.

Speaker 4 (02:03:20):
Care i'm not. BATHE i JUST i won't start my
first to my. Baby each, DAY.

Speaker 3 (02:03:28):
I want. IT i won, IT i won.

Speaker 4 (02:03:39):
IT i want, WANT i want, IT i want, IT
i won't. IT i want.

Speaker 1 (02:03:44):
IT i want drunk sixpence every day.

Speaker 2 (02:03:51):
Just to drive to my baby.

Speaker 4 (02:03:52):
Base drum say sixpence each. Day that got my baby
ever with you NOW i, GOT.

Speaker 2 (02:04:39):
I got my may.

Speaker 4 (02:04:50):
Different WAYS.

Speaker 1 (02:05:00):
I, WANT i.

Speaker 2 (02:05:02):
Want i'll sell you any, game, work.

Speaker 4 (02:05:08):
Work about beating another First black

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 366: NYPD Assistant Commissioner Kevin O’Connor

Episode Transcript

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Episode 366: NYPD Assistant Commissioner Kevin O’Connor

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