Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Live across the Great Lake State. You're connected to Michigan's
most engaging and influential radio and television program, Michigan's Big
Show starring Michael Patrick Shields, presented by Blue Cross, Blue
Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm producer and creative director Tony Cuthberts.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now in the shadow of the Capitol Dome and Lansing.
He's heard from the beaches of Lake Michigan, to the
halls of power and behind closed doors. Here's Michigan's Michael
Patrick Shields.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
The only thing at the end of the day that
you're going to regret are not the mistakes you make,
because you can make your peace with them and move on.
You're going to regret the moments that you did not take.
And this is your moment.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Michael Patrick Shields is on their.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Good Morning World.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Quite a moment in Washington, d C. Yesterday as a
gathering of world leaders joined Vlodemar Zelenski, the Ukraine's president,
and Donald Trump, the President of the United States, and
they I got on the phone with Vladimir Putin after
they met and Alan Sanders is a former senior writer
for Time Magazine. He was born in Paris. He's highly
(01:13):
educated Princeton and Columbia and now he himself is professor
emeritus of political science at Saint Peter's University in Jersey City,
New Jersey. And he's on our radio stage, our at
and T line. Rate this moment. Welcome back to the program.
It's good to talk to you again.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
A pleasure of Michael, pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
Peter Doocey threw kind of a haymaker at Blodemore Zelensky
yesterday in the White House and it sounded like this, Nick.
Speaker 6 (01:40):
Lensky, are you prepared to keep sending Ukrainian troops to
their death for another couple of years.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Or are you going to agree to redraw the maps?
Speaker 5 (01:50):
So when you say, professor, redraw the maps, that makes
it sound simple, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
It sure does. And that was the subject that was
mostly avoided at the meeting yesterday in Washington. It was
mostly focused on providing security for Ukraine, and the assurances
were there, but they were rather vague. But it mostly
focused on how do we provide security. The territorial issue
was pretty much skipped over because that's a very difficult
(02:16):
question for mister Zelenski.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
The idea of security going forward. I'm no expert. You are.
That's why I'm asking is not going to be in NATO,
but therefore provided by who.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Well exactly it's supposed to be security guarantees that would
involve the United States. President Trump said, yes, the US
would be involved, but mostly it would be the Europeans
who would be in charge. And in fact, today the
Europeans are having yet another virtual meeting among themselves to
determine what would be possible, what kind of security it
(02:53):
would be. Would it be troops, Would it be a
large number of troops capable of defending Ukraine. Would it
be a trigger amount of true to just be a
trigger in case Russia decided to continue the war or
to resume the war. We don't really know. And that's
pretty much where we stand. Everybody's agreed Ukraine needs to
(03:14):
have security. Everybody agrees that there will be land swaps,
but I think we should understand landswaps as being concessions
on behalf of Ukraine in terms of what territory, if any,
they would be willing to give up to Russia. So
things are moving, but moving very slowly, and it's very
difficult to foresee how they're going to proceed. However they proceed, however,
(03:36):
it will take a long time.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
You were a senior writer at Time magazine. Somebody asked
the President yesterday and that gaggle about whether or not
US troops would be going in potentially to defend Ukraine
if need be, and he sort of said, well, we'll see.
I'll tell you more about that later. They got riled
up about that. But isn't it just true that why
(04:00):
would you reveal something like that when you're in the
middle of a negotiation.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Well, it's true that you wouldn't want to reveal that.
But you know, the Europeans came on Moss to back
President z Olynski because they were worried about President Trump's resolve. Basically,
they were there to back mister Zelinsky and to essentially
manage Donald Trump. They know that he's mercurial. They know
(04:24):
that he went into the meeting with President Putin a
few days before saying that he would be pressing for
a ceasefire and if none occurred as a result of
the negotiations, he would take strong measures against Russia. Well,
of course, Donald trum didn't do that at all. He
basically agreed that the war could go on and that
we should move to permanent negotiations, not just the ceasefire.
(04:46):
So the Europeans were very concerned about really trusting Donald Trump,
and that's why they were there now in terms of
the actual security guarantees. They were there to impress upon
him the need for the United States to involve. They
didn't really discuss details because they were there really to
tell him, Look, you got to back mister Zelensky because
(05:07):
we don't trust Putin and we want to be sure
that you're on board on our side of the negotiations
and not on mister Putin's side.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Alan Sanders, Professor, Saint Peter's University in New Jersey. If
you were back at Time magazine, or maybe you were
in that room yesterday, and you could ask one question
to Vladimir Putin, Zelensky and Donald Trump, each of them,
maybe a different question for each. What would your questions be, Well,
my question.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Would be to each one of them, are you in
favor of it independent Ukraine that is capable of making
its own sovereign decisions about whatever it wants to decide
in terms of security and in terms of alliances, and
in terms of orientation.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Well, we know how two of them are going to
answer that question, right, we.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Do, And based on that those answers, I would understand
how difficult it would be to reach an agreement. This
is not an easy conflict. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is
fighting for its survival. The Europeans are concerned about what
Putin has in terms of intention beyond Ukraine. Many of
(06:11):
them have borders, many of the European states have borders
with Russia itself, and so they're concerned about their own
security and they see what's happening in Ukraine as a
harbinger of things that might come if the Ukrainian situation
is not results satisfactorily. So this is a question not
just about Ukraine, is a question about European security. And
for the United States, European security is crucial. There are
(06:32):
our most important allies, and if they're not backed up,
and if the sphere of influence of Russia expands as
a result of this situation, one has to wonder what
friends the United States might have in Europe. And so
it's a really of global concern.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
What did you make of the surfacing yesterday in the
middle of all that of the idea that the president
wants to do away with mail in voting.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Well, this has been something that he's hard on four
years now. There's no evidence that mail in voting increases
fraud or produces fraud on its own. For many people,
it's very important. The President himself said he uses mail
in voting, so it's hard to understand why he would
want to take that away from others. Many people need
(07:18):
mail in voting, of course, the elderly, the sick, the infirm.
And there's no reason to not make voting more convenient.
We're all in favor of voting. I think I would
hope so, and so why not make it easier instead
of making it more difficult.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
I think his example was that one apartment could get
you four or five ballots because the voter rules aren't
cleared out, and somebody can send them in without ID
or put them in the drop box or whatever. And
I don't know, maybe that's a compelling case.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Well that's what he shaid. But of course, all the
evidence that we've had in election after election for years
and years has shown that there's very little fraud. There's
always fraud in anything that happens in this world. But
in terms of meaningful fraud or deception in elections, that
hasn't been proven that the president hasn't provided any real
evidence to back that up.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Where can any of us go? And where do you go?
For unbiased news coverage?
Speaker 4 (08:17):
You have to read a whole lot of news sources.
So read not just the ones that agree with you
politically to make you feel good, read some of the
ones that you disagree with, not just to feel bad,
but to understand that each news source will provide different
details about what happened regarding a particular event, and if
(08:37):
you want to make an unbiased judgment, you have to
understand all the points of view and all the facts
that are brought out by various new sources. So I
would say read widely. Use the Internet. Most people have
access to Internet news sources. To read as widely as
you can.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
And listen to Alan Sanders on this show Saint Peter's University.
Thank You.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
It's a magical month of winning at fire Keepers with
our Sweet sixteenth anniversary. Celebrate with a Mustang Magic giveaway
on Saturday, August thirtieth, and you could win thousands in
cash and Red Hot credits plus one of two Smoking
Hot twenty twenty five Mustangs Drawings start at two pm
(09:20):
with four winners of four thousand in Red Hot credits.
At four pm, two winners each get eight thousand in
Red Hot credits. At six pm, one winner score sixteen
thousand cash, and at eight pm we're giving away a
Mustang Ego Boost. Then at ten pm it's the Grand
Prize drawing for a stunning sixtieth anniversary Mustang gt Aaron
(09:42):
entries daily plus our double entries every Wednesday now through
August thirtieth for the Mustang Magic Giveaway. The best giveaways,
the biggest guaranteed prizes only at fire Keepers. Get your
vegas on at fire Keepers Casino Hotel on ninety four
to What's at one of feign Battle Creek Management reserves
all rights.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Dean Transportation is looking for compassionate people to join our
team of school bus drivers and attendants. Visit Dean jobs
dot com to see all openings. Dean Transportation provides paid
training to obtain a commercial driver's license, Increased starting pay,
comprehensive benefits, and flexible schedules with no weekend shifts, no
(10:20):
experience needed. Apply today at Dean jobs dot com and
train for back to school season. That's da n jobs
dot Com.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Whether they're dough boys, comments, or even gremlins, every public
school in Michigan is proud to be known for something,
and at the Michigan Lottery, we're proud to be known
for something too. Education. I'm Lottery Commissioner Susanna Shcrelli, and
one hundred percent of our profits go to support the
state School Aid Fund. Last year, the lottery contributed over
one billion dollars. So whatever hometown school you're from, we're
(10:52):
rooting for all of them. Michigan Lottery for fun for schools.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
Knowing your limits is always the best back
Live across the Great Lake State. You're connected to Michigan's
most engaging and influential radio and television program, Michigan's Big
Show starring Michael Patrick Shields, presented by Blue Cross, Blue
Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm producer and creative director Tony Cuthberts.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now in the shadow of the Capitol Dome and Lansing.
He's heard from the beaches of Lake Michigan, to the
halls of power and behind closed doors. Here's Michigan's Michael
Patrick Shields.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
The only thing at the end of the day that
you're going to regret are not the mistakes you make,
because you can make your peace with them and move on.
You're going to regret the moments that you did not take.
And this is your moment.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
Michael Patrick Shields is on their.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Good Morning World.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Quite a moment in Washington, d C. Yesterday as a
gathering of world leaders joined Vlodemar Zelenski, the Ukraine's president,
and Donald Trump, the President of the United States, and
they I got on the phone with Vladimir Putin after
they met and Alan Sanders is a former senior writer
for Time Magazine. He was born in Paris. He's highly
(01:13):
educated Princeton and Columbia and now he himself is professor
emeritus of political science at Saint Peter's University in Jersey City,
New Jersey. And he's on our radio stage, our at
and T line. Rate this moment. Welcome back to the program.
It's good to talk to you again.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
A pleasure of Michael, pleasure to be with you.
Speaker 5 (01:33):
Peter Doocey threw kind of a haymaker at Blodemore Zelensky
yesterday in the White House and it sounded like this, Nick.
Speaker 6 (01:40):
Lensky, are you prepared to keep sending Ukrainian troops to
their death for another couple of years.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Or are you going to agree to redraw the maps?
Speaker 5 (01:50):
So when you say, professor, redraw the maps, that makes
it sound simple, doesn't it.
Speaker 4 (01:56):
It sure does. And that was the subject that was
mostly avoided at the meeting yesterday in Washington. It was
mostly focused on providing security for Ukraine, and the assurances
were there, but they were rather vague. But it mostly
focused on how do we provide security. The territorial issue
was pretty much skipped over because that's a very difficult
(02:16):
question for mister Zelenski.
Speaker 5 (02:20):
The idea of security going forward. I'm no expert. You are.
That's why I'm asking is not going to be in NATO,
but therefore provided by who.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Well exactly it's supposed to be security guarantees that would
involve the United States. President Trump said, yes, the US
would be involved, but mostly it would be the Europeans
who would be in charge. And in fact, today the
Europeans are having yet another virtual meeting among themselves to
determine what would be possible, what kind of security it
(02:53):
would be. Would it be troops, Would it be a
large number of troops capable of defending Ukraine. Would it
be a trigger amount of true to just be a
trigger in case Russia decided to continue the war or
to resume the war. We don't really know. And that's
pretty much where we stand. Everybody's agreed Ukraine needs to
(03:14):
have security. Everybody agrees that there will be land swaps,
but I think we should understand landswaps as being concessions
on behalf of Ukraine in terms of what territory, if any,
they would be willing to give up to Russia. So
things are moving, but moving very slowly, and it's very
difficult to foresee how they're going to proceed. However they proceed, however,
(03:36):
it will take a long time.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
You were a senior writer at Time magazine. Somebody asked
the President yesterday and that gaggle about whether or not
US troops would be going in potentially to defend Ukraine
if need be, and he sort of said, well, we'll see.
I'll tell you more about that later. They got riled
up about that. But isn't it just true that why
(04:00):
would you reveal something like that when you're in the
middle of a negotiation.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Well, it's true that you wouldn't want to reveal that.
But you know, the Europeans came on Moss to back
President z Olynski because they were worried about President Trump's resolve. Basically,
they were there to back mister Zelinsky and to essentially
manage Donald Trump. They know that he's mercurial. They know
(04:24):
that he went into the meeting with President Putin a
few days before saying that he would be pressing for
a ceasefire and if none occurred as a result of
the negotiations, he would take strong measures against Russia. Well,
of course, Donald trum didn't do that at all. He
basically agreed that the war could go on and that
we should move to permanent negotiations, not just the ceasefire.
(04:46):
So the Europeans were very concerned about really trusting Donald Trump,
and that's why they were there now in terms of
the actual security guarantees. They were there to impress upon
him the need for the United States to involve. They
didn't really discuss details because they were there really to
tell him, Look, you got to back mister Zelensky because
(05:07):
we don't trust Putin and we want to be sure
that you're on board on our side of the negotiations
and not on mister Putin's side.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Alan Sanders, Professor, Saint Peter's University in New Jersey. If
you were back at Time magazine, or maybe you were
in that room yesterday, and you could ask one question
to Vladimir Putin, Zelensky and Donald Trump, each of them,
maybe a different question for each. What would your questions be, Well,
my question.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Would be to each one of them, are you in
favor of it independent Ukraine that is capable of making
its own sovereign decisions about whatever it wants to decide
in terms of security and in terms of alliances, and
in terms of orientation.
Speaker 5 (05:46):
Well, we know how two of them are going to
answer that question, right, we.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Do, And based on that those answers, I would understand
how difficult it would be to reach an agreement. This
is not an easy conflict. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is
fighting for its survival. The Europeans are concerned about what
Putin has in terms of intention beyond Ukraine. Many of
(06:11):
them have borders, many of the European states have borders
with Russia itself, and so they're concerned about their own
security and they see what's happening in Ukraine as a
harbinger of things that might come if the Ukrainian situation
is not results satisfactorily. So this is a question not
just about Ukraine, is a question about European security. And
for the United States, European security is crucial. There are
(06:32):
our most important allies, and if they're not backed up,
and if the sphere of influence of Russia expands as
a result of this situation, one has to wonder what
friends the United States might have in Europe. And so
it's a really of global concern.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
What did you make of the surfacing yesterday in the
middle of all that of the idea that the president
wants to do away with mail in voting.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Well, this has been something that he's hard on four
years now. There's no evidence that mail in voting increases
fraud or produces fraud on its own. For many people,
it's very important. The President himself said he uses mail
in voting, so it's hard to understand why he would
want to take that away from others. Many people need
(07:18):
mail in voting, of course, the elderly, the sick, the infirm.
And there's no reason to not make voting more convenient.
We're all in favor of voting. I think I would
hope so, and so why not make it easier instead
of making it more difficult.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
I think his example was that one apartment could get
you four or five ballots because the voter rules aren't
cleared out, and somebody can send them in without ID
or put them in the drop box or whatever. And
I don't know, maybe that's a compelling case.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Well that's what he shaid. But of course, all the
evidence that we've had in election after election for years
and years has shown that there's very little fraud. There's
always fraud in anything that happens in this world. But
in terms of meaningful fraud or deception in elections, that
hasn't been proven that the president hasn't provided any real
evidence to back that up.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
Where can any of us go? And where do you go?
For unbiased news coverage?
Speaker 4 (08:17):
You have to read a whole lot of news sources.
So read not just the ones that agree with you
politically to make you feel good, read some of the
ones that you disagree with, not just to feel bad,
but to understand that each news source will provide different
details about what happened regarding a particular event, and if
(08:37):
you want to make an unbiased judgment, you have to
understand all the points of view and all the facts
that are brought out by various new sources. So I
would say read widely. Use the Internet. Most people have
access to Internet news sources. To read as widely as
you can.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
And listen to Alan Sanders on this show Saint Peter's University.
Thank You.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
It's a magical month of winning at fire Keepers with
our Sweet sixteenth anniversary. Celebrate with a Mustang Magic giveaway
on Saturday, August thirtieth, and you could win thousands in
cash and Red Hot credits plus one of two Smoking
Hot twenty twenty five Mustangs Drawings start at two pm
(09:20):
with four winners of four thousand in Red Hot credits.
At four pm, two winners each get eight thousand in
Red Hot credits. At six pm, one winner score sixteen
thousand cash, and at eight pm we're giving away a
Mustang Ego Boost. Then at ten pm it's the Grand
Prize drawing for a stunning sixtieth anniversary Mustang gt Aaron
(09:42):
entries daily plus our double entries every Wednesday now through
August thirtieth for the Mustang Magic Giveaway. The best giveaways,
the biggest guaranteed prizes only at fire Keepers. Get your
vegas on at fire Keepers Casino Hotel on ninety four
to What's at one of feign Battle Creek Management reserves
all rights.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Dean Transportation is looking for compassionate people to join our
team of school bus drivers and attendants. Visit Dean jobs
dot com to see all openings. Dean Transportation provides paid
training to obtain a commercial driver's license, Increased starting pay,
comprehensive benefits, and flexible schedules with no weekend shifts, no
(10:20):
experience needed. Apply today at Dean jobs dot com and
train for back to school season. That's da n jobs
dot Com.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Whether they're dough boys, comments, or even gremlins, every public
school in Michigan is proud to be known for something,
and at the Michigan Lottery, we're proud to be known
for something too. Education. I'm Lottery Commissioner Susanna Shcrelli, and
one hundred percent of our profits go to support the
state School Aid Fund. Last year, the lottery contributed over
one billion dollars. So whatever hometown school you're from, we're
(10:52):
rooting for all of them. Michigan Lottery for fun for schools.
Speaker 6 (10:56):
Knowing your limits is always the best back
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