Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Live across the Great Lake State. You're connected to Michigan's
most engaging and influential radio and television program, Michigan's Big
Show starring Michael Patrick Shields, presented by Blue Cross, Blue
Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm producer and creative director Tony Cuthberts.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now in the shadow of the Capitol Dome and Lansing.
He's heard from the beaches of Lake Michigan, to the
halls of power and behind closed doors. Here's Michigan's Michael
Patrick Shields.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Raise your right hand.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Do you sell me swetertot total to the truth? Huh?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Do you sell them me sweltertosh hold to that other's truth?
Are you trying to give me the double talk?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Michael Patrick Shields is.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
On the air, Good Morning World.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Well Counselor Andrew Abood is on our AT and T line.
We don't have to swear him in because we know
he's gonna tell us the truth and give us the
straight skinny all the time. And he is based in
the East Lansing area, but has intriguing business all around
the states, high profile cases, and all around the country.
In fact, from time to time welcome back to the airwaves, sir.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Thanks for having me on. Michael, you have.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Had the opportunity, as I understand it, to argue or
present cases in front of the Michigan Supreme Court recently.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
What's that like, Well, I mean there's often a lot
at stake, and there was in this these two cases
that I had, one was argued in October, the other
one was December, and we just got the second opinion.
The first opinion was issued in February, and both of
them are in our favor. So we're grateful for that.
(01:50):
But it's it's, you know, it's a lot of preparation
for twenty minutes argument.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You have to summarize the entire case in twenty minutes.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Have to put you know, you want to whatever points
you're trying to make. You're hoping that they're doubles in triples.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, your record in front of the Michigan Supreme Court,
then right now are you and the people who worked
on the cases with you two and zero two.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And oh for the last you know, the last two cases.
I had a case previously years ago that we lost
and you know, for me, I still think they got
it wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
But is it I mean, that's how it works with
the Supreme Court. You can have a complicated case and
you get twenty minutes, and you're either you know, the
I don't say combatant, but the defendant or plaintiff or
whatever it might be, also gets twenty minutes and then
(02:47):
they consider it and make a ruling.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Fifteen usually is what you get, but they often, they
often it goes over if they ask questions, and they
may give you some extra time summarise. And if you're
the if you're the party that argues first, which we were,
you get some time for rebuttal. So if it's you know,
if it's fifteen minutes, you want to save three minutes
(03:12):
for rebuttal. So it goes quicker than you think.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
You know what. This inspires me, and it's the time
of year when it could come in handy. I would
like to have a limit. When I meet with my friends,
let's say it sidebar, and they're coming off the golf
course and they're going to tell me about their round.
I say, all right, you get fifteen minutes, not a
second more to tell me about around. Wouldn't that be useful?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Usually? What I say when I said talking about the
round and they sat getting hole by hole and I say, listen,
I know exactly how you shoot eighty five.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
You missed the puff for eighty four.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
That's not interesting. You know, I asked you what you shot.
I don't need to know that. You know you were
playing really good and then you hit three out about
I mean, yeah, before.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Is it? Is it easy? In the in the seconds
that we have here or minutes that could you summarize
both of the cases what they were about even well?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
The first one was a class action lawsuit against the
City of East Lansing and violation of the Headly Amendment.
So we looked at I mean it was I'm grateful
that they ruled in our favor and we're going to
get some money back to the East Lansing residence for
an illegal tax. And the second one involved a contract
issue in which the Court of Appeals got it dead wrong.
(04:36):
And my friends A Christiates and Michelle Rick, and when
I run into him or Court of Appeals that is,
I'm going to point the case to him and say, hey,
you know you got this wrong. I'm like, I'm like
al Patino, I take everything personal.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
It's not personal, it's only business. But in this case,
it is personal and the listeners.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And a small town like Lancing, everything is personal.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
And in a town like Harbor Springs and Boeing City,
for what it's worth, also is very visible and public
and personal when it's your friend involved as well too.
And it's a eigeh profile, a well known case if
anyone wants to wants to delve into it. But we're
heard on WMKT in northern Michigan where that particular issue
(05:30):
was fought for for years. Now now you are now
a radio host slash podcaster, and I see you've had
some very high profile people, not including Tim Stout. But
how's it going.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, it's a lot harder than it looks. And you
do such a masterful job. And that's sort of my
goals to be like you. Oh gosh in that regard,
and I know when I listen, I need to get better.
But I think I think for me, I find them interesting.
We've had Jeremy Fears on there and he's got one
(06:07):
whole of the story, and of course it's timely right now.
And Red Savage who was captain of the hockey team,
and asked in mccullor, who was captain of the golf team,
and all those teams are doing great. And then we
have some lawyers and I'm hoping to get Joyce the
young on there out of the DL school at Michigan State.
Several other prominent names Chris tim Stout, and Ron DeLeon
(06:30):
and Mike Nicholas, one of my true friends for over
thirty years.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I like your style and what I've seen because it's
very conversational and you must be tempted to slip into
kind of an examination slash cross examination, since you've done
that in court so much, but you don't. You approach
it in a sort of a conversational way.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
It seems to me, well, it's more direct exam and
direct exam, which I've done, is harder than cross But
you're really.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Not You're really not making it about you, but following
the person on the other side to tell their stories.
So you try and ask opening good questions, and I've
tried to limit my input about any of their commentary
and just to allow them to talk, you tell their story.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I think that's interesting. I never would have known that
that the direct exam is easier than the cross Why
is that.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Now the direct exam when you're doing a direct exam.
It's always harder. You've got to be better at cross,
but harder because it's your witness, and you know, you
know the case as a lawyer, sometimes you know it
better than your client. And doing direct exam, you know
you can. You can lose your case on direct because
(07:57):
you've asked an open ended question and sometimes a client
doesn't understand where they're going and they give the wrong
answer or the witness and you can't, you know. But
in this particular case, there's no cases to be lost.
It's just the guest telling the story and they just
(08:18):
want to make sure that makes them look good.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
How can we see and listen to the Andrew Boode podcast.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
It's on Spotify and it's on YouTube and it's the
A List Hour with the Andrew A Boot And you
should if you google that, you should be able to
pull up several hours of different guests.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Congratulations on your two recent victories in front of the
Michigan Supreme Court and the really admirable skill at interviewing
in the podcasts the direct exam. One day we're going
to get a cross on there. It'll be really fun too.
Thank you. Michael Patrick Shields here inviting you to join
me October twenty fourth as we journey to iconic Italy
(09:05):
and the lovely Mouthy Coast with Collette. Experience breathtaking views throughout.
Spend three nights in Rome five on the amazing Amalfi Coast,
Classical Rome, the legendary Coliseum, the ruins of Pompeii, seaside
towns of Positano and Sorrento with pastel colored houses and
pebbly beaches.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
A family run.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Farm will teach us how they make mozzarella cheese by hand,
and we'll savor the famous food and wine every step
of the way, including lunch at the foot of Mount Vesuvius.
Call it makes travel easy, flights, meals, hotels, local experiences.
Your only job is to have the time of your life.
Call our friends at Cruise Planners two six nine nine
two zero nine zero one or visit Spotlightmedia Studios dot
(09:45):
com to learn more. Two six nine nine A two
zero nine zero one.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Soon come away with me.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
To a top ten state is only as strong as
our strength of commitment. It's time to compete to win
when we do better by our kids, invest in people,
accelerate our economy, and get the fundamentals right, we will
feel a powerful win in our sales that will move
Michigan over. That's a top ten state Business Leaders for
(10:20):
Michigan is the state's Business Roundtable. We're committed to make
Michigan more competitive. Time to be bold, Michigan. It's time
to compete to win.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Looking for your next sunny getaway, whether it's to your
favorite theme park, relaxing beach time, a golf trip, or
just feeling the sun on your face. Breeze Airways as
you covered, with convenient non stop flights from Lansing's Capital
Region International Airport to sunny Orlando and Fort Myers. Travel
with these by visiting flybreeze dot com or by downloading
(10:53):
the Breeze app Fly Lancing on Breeze Airways seriously nice.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
M
Live across the Great Lake State. You're connected to Michigan's
most engaging and influential radio and television program, Michigan's Big
Show starring Michael Patrick Shields, presented by Blue Cross, Blue
Shield of Michigan and Blue Care Network.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm producer and creative director Tony Cuthberts.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now in the shadow of the Capitol Dome and Lansing.
He's heard from the beaches of Lake Michigan, to the
halls of power and behind closed doors. Here's Michigan's Michael
Patrick Shields.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Raise your right hand.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Do you sell me swetertot total to the truth? Huh?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Do you sell them me sweltertosh hold to that other's truth?
Are you trying to give me the double talk?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Michael Patrick Shields is.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
On the air, Good Morning World.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Well Counselor Andrew Abood is on our AT and T line.
We don't have to swear him in because we know
he's gonna tell us the truth and give us the
straight skinny all the time. And he is based in
the East Lansing area, but has intriguing business all around
the states, high profile cases, and all around the country.
In fact, from time to time welcome back to the airwaves, sir.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Thanks for having me on. Michael, you have.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Had the opportunity, as I understand it, to argue or
present cases in front of the Michigan Supreme Court recently.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
What's that like, Well, I mean there's often a lot
at stake, and there was in this these two cases
that I had, one was argued in October, the other
one was December, and we just got the second opinion.
The first opinion was issued in February, and both of
them are in our favor. So we're grateful for that.
(01:50):
But it's it's, you know, it's a lot of preparation
for twenty minutes argument.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You have to summarize the entire case in twenty minutes.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Have to put you know, you want to whatever points
you're trying to make. You're hoping that they're doubles in triples.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, your record in front of the Michigan Supreme Court,
then right now are you and the people who worked
on the cases with you two and zero two.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And oh for the last you know, the last two cases.
I had a case previously years ago that we lost
and you know, for me, I still think they got
it wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
But is it I mean, that's how it works with
the Supreme Court. You can have a complicated case and
you get twenty minutes, and you're either you know, the
I don't say combatant, but the defendant or plaintiff or
whatever it might be, also gets twenty minutes and then
(02:47):
they consider it and make a ruling.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Fifteen usually is what you get, but they often, they
often it goes over if they ask questions, and they
may give you some extra time summarise. And if you're
the if you're the party that argues first, which we were,
you get some time for rebuttal. So if it's you know,
if it's fifteen minutes, you want to save three minutes
(03:12):
for rebuttal. So it goes quicker than you think.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
You know what. This inspires me, and it's the time
of year when it could come in handy. I would
like to have a limit. When I meet with my friends,
let's say it sidebar, and they're coming off the golf
course and they're going to tell me about their round.
I say, all right, you get fifteen minutes, not a
second more to tell me about around. Wouldn't that be useful?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Usually? What I say when I said talking about the
round and they sat getting hole by hole and I say, listen,
I know exactly how you shoot eighty five.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
You missed the puff for eighty four.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
That's not interesting. You know, I asked you what you shot.
I don't need to know that. You know you were
playing really good and then you hit three out about
I mean, yeah, before.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Is it? Is it easy? In the in the seconds
that we have here or minutes that could you summarize
both of the cases what they were about even well?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
The first one was a class action lawsuit against the
City of East Lansing and violation of the Headly Amendment.
So we looked at I mean it was I'm grateful
that they ruled in our favor and we're going to
get some money back to the East Lansing residence for
an illegal tax. And the second one involved a contract
issue in which the Court of Appeals got it dead wrong.
(04:36):
And my friends A Christiates and Michelle Rick, and when
I run into him or Court of Appeals that is,
I'm going to point the case to him and say, hey,
you know you got this wrong. I'm like, I'm like
al Patino, I take everything personal.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
It's not personal, it's only business. But in this case,
it is personal and the listeners.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
And a small town like Lancing, everything is personal.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
And in a town like Harbor Springs and Boeing City,
for what it's worth, also is very visible and public
and personal when it's your friend involved as well too.
And it's a eigeh profile, a well known case if
anyone wants to wants to delve into it. But we're
heard on WMKT in northern Michigan where that particular issue
(05:30):
was fought for for years. Now now you are now
a radio host slash podcaster, and I see you've had
some very high profile people, not including Tim Stout. But
how's it going.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Well, it's a lot harder than it looks. And you
do such a masterful job. And that's sort of my
goals to be like you. Oh gosh in that regard,
and I know when I listen, I need to get better.
But I think I think for me, I find them interesting.
We've had Jeremy Fears on there and he's got one
(06:07):
whole of the story, and of course it's timely right now.
And Red Savage who was captain of the hockey team,
and asked in mccullor, who was captain of the golf team,
and all those teams are doing great. And then we
have some lawyers and I'm hoping to get Joyce the
young on there out of the DL school at Michigan State.
Several other prominent names Chris tim Stout, and Ron DeLeon
(06:30):
and Mike Nicholas, one of my true friends for over
thirty years.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I like your style and what I've seen because it's
very conversational and you must be tempted to slip into
kind of an examination slash cross examination, since you've done
that in court so much, but you don't. You approach
it in a sort of a conversational way.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
It seems to me, well, it's more direct exam and
direct exam, which I've done, is harder than cross But
you're really.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Not You're really not making it about you, but following
the person on the other side to tell their stories.
So you try and ask opening good questions, and I've
tried to limit my input about any of their commentary
and just to allow them to talk, you tell their story.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I think that's interesting. I never would have known that
that the direct exam is easier than the cross Why
is that.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Now the direct exam when you're doing a direct exam.
It's always harder. You've got to be better at cross,
but harder because it's your witness, and you know, you
know the case as a lawyer, sometimes you know it
better than your client. And doing direct exam, you know
you can. You can lose your case on direct because
(07:57):
you've asked an open ended question and sometimes a client
doesn't understand where they're going and they give the wrong
answer or the witness and you can't, you know. But
in this particular case, there's no cases to be lost.
It's just the guest telling the story and they just
(08:18):
want to make sure that makes them look good.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
How can we see and listen to the Andrew Boode podcast.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
It's on Spotify and it's on YouTube and it's the
A List Hour with the Andrew A Boot And you
should if you google that, you should be able to
pull up several hours of different guests.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Congratulations on your two recent victories in front of the
Michigan Supreme Court and the really admirable skill at interviewing
in the podcasts the direct exam. One day we're going
to get a cross on there. It'll be really fun too.
Thank you. Michael Patrick Shields here inviting you to join
me October twenty fourth as we journey to iconic Italy
(09:05):
and the lovely Mouthy Coast with Collette. Experience breathtaking views throughout.
Spend three nights in Rome five on the amazing Amalfi Coast,
Classical Rome, the legendary Coliseum, the ruins of Pompeii, seaside
towns of Positano and Sorrento with pastel colored houses and
pebbly beaches.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
A family run.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Farm will teach us how they make mozzarella cheese by hand,
and we'll savor the famous food and wine every step
of the way, including lunch at the foot of Mount Vesuvius.
Call it makes travel easy, flights, meals, hotels, local experiences.
Your only job is to have the time of your life.
Call our friends at Cruise Planners two six nine nine
two zero nine zero one or visit Spotlightmedia Studios dot
(09:45):
com to learn more. Two six nine nine A two
zero nine zero one.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Soon come away with me.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
To a top ten state is only as strong as
our strength of commitment. It's time to compete to win
when we do better by our kids, invest in people,
accelerate our economy, and get the fundamentals right, we will
feel a powerful win in our sales that will move
Michigan over. That's a top ten state Business Leaders for
(10:20):
Michigan is the state's Business Roundtable. We're committed to make
Michigan more competitive. Time to be bold, Michigan. It's time
to compete to win.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
Looking for your next sunny getaway, whether it's to your
favorite theme park, relaxing beach time, a golf trip, or
just feeling the sun on your face. Breeze Airways as
you covered, with convenient non stop flights from Lansing's Capital
Region International Airport to sunny Orlando and Fort Myers. Travel
with these by visiting flybreeze dot com or by downloading
(10:53):
the Breeze app Fly Lancing on Breeze Airways seriously nice.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
M
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