Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome back to Michigan's Big Show starring Michael Patrick Shields.
Chicago is being named the best city in the country
for the ninth year in a row by Conde Nass
Travelers Readers Choice Award. Chicago was also named the friendliest
city in the World. I think some people might disagree
with those rankings if you're in the wrong parts of Chicago.
(00:33):
But if you're in the right parts of Chicago, it's
a great city, very walk well, very fun, pretty windy.
Could be a little cold, but congratulations to that city. Well,
here in Michigan, we've got several issues going on with
the state budget having just been passed. And join us
(00:54):
here to talk about how this impacts small businesses. Is
the president and see the Small Business Association of Michigan,
and he is a former Lieutenant governor. Brian Kelly, Good morning,
How you doing, Brian?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Good morning, Kyle. Thanks for having me on the Big Show.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Hey glad that you could join us. You get a
run in yet today or not?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
No, I'm not an early morning runner. I like to
do it after work.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Oh really, gosh, I can't do it after work. I've
got two I don't I never know when my afterwork
is it could be like midnight, it could be nine,
it could be eight. I have no idea what I'm
going to end, so I got to do it first.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Wizards of your profession, I'm afraid absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I saw that you wrote a column for the that
showed up what was in the Detroit News here on
small businesses and the FED.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That's right. The Center Reserve has really been strangely aloof
to what is happening on the ground with small businesses.
And this has been going on for years now, where
they ignored inflationary pressures and then had to really slam
on the brakes with higher interest rates and tighter fiscal policy.
If they have recognized the inflation and listened to small
(02:03):
businesses earlier, they could have eased into that type of
fiscal policy. And then on the other end of the cycle,
when the labor market was clearly softening, if you listen
to small businesses, they ignored it. They were pretending as
though the jobs market was remarkably strong in two thousand,
twenty twenty three, in twenty twenty four, when these recent
(02:26):
downward revisions show that no, actually they weren't strong. And
if you had listened to small businesses back then, you
would have known that ahead of time. So today they're
resisting reducing interest rates, which is clearly culled to where
you look at the data. For some reason, they want
to be you know, they want to appear as though
they're a political and independent from the political system. But
(02:50):
the problem is they're making the wrong decisions and it
makes them look more political because of this theater they
I think the best protection from them looking political is
to make the right decisions, to make prudent decisions, and
right now, clearly the prudent decision is to continue to
reduce interest rates because a softer economy is a bigger
(03:13):
threat than high inflation.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Have you seen a fad that is as I don't
know if responsive is the right word, but seems like
under the thumb of a president as this one.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
This particular Federal Reserve and the president beefing the way
that they are is unusual. And you know, I think
the best thing that the chair of the Federal Reserve
Boarder Directors could do, Jerome Powell, would be to just
not worry about what the president is saying and do
the right thing, which is reduced interest rates. He seems
(03:46):
to be so concerned that Trump wants him to reduce
interest rates that he's resistant to doing it, even though
take Trump out of the picture, just look at the data,
it's obvious that he should be. He's been way late
and very slow. And that's why I think the best
protection against all the political back and forth and this
(04:08):
public few that the two of them are having, the
best protection is to just make the right decision based
on the data and ignore the politics. But he seems
to be willing to make the wrong decision to appear
to look like he is. He's not under the thumb
if Viele of the president. I think he would be
hailed and respected if he just were to ignore all
(04:31):
that and let the information that is obvious at this point.
Interest rates are too high. It is constricting the economy,
it is hurting the job market. Market, don't screw it
up any further. We had a strong job market. It
seems to have been kind of squandered by the Federal
Reserve and their slowness, and it is time for them
(04:51):
to act.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well, we'll see what happens on that front. I don't
know if you saw this or not, but yesterday House
Speaker Matt Hall had one of his press conferences kind
of recaping the budget, and he suggested during it that
he's willing to work with the governor on a program
that she announced that at the beginning of the year,
this higher Michigan legislation, which looks like it's very similar
(05:15):
to something that was done under the Governor Rick Snyder's
administration called Good Jobs for Michigan. Have you taken a
look at this and is there similarities?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
What I'll say, Kyle, is that there's nothing to take
a look at other than comments that were made in
the press conference. So I don't know, I've heard that characterization.
I read the same reports that you did, in the
same statements that were made, and so that's the inference
that has been shared. But there really isn't a proposal
on the table for anybody to review. But I think
(05:51):
if where to go back, I think if you're really
interested in an effective economic development, it would be a
good place to start is to couple with the federal
tax system. There's really strong incentives that were that were
added into the federal tax code which are being disallowed
here in Michigan, and I think that would be a
(06:13):
good place to start if you want to charge the
Michigan's Michigan's economy up especially. There's one part of it,
it's called one Section one seventy nine depreciation. It's the
one most often used by small businesses. And the state
has decoupled from the small Business Accelerated Depreciation system. That
(06:34):
that's a big mistake. You know, these are for companies
that are making modest sized investments in rewarding that is,
I think is a smart move and it doesn't cost
the state hardly anything. It was maybe thirty two million
dollars in total costs for Section one seventy nine depreciation.
(06:55):
You know how many companies utilized, tens of thousands of
small businesses every year utilize it. That's a lot of
bang for your buck, you know, in these economic development
programs sometimes are you know, multi billion dollar endeavors, you know,
thirty two million dollars to help thirty or forty thousand
small businesses, but that you get a lot from it.
(07:18):
And I hope that in this broader decision on economic
development and sending the state in a better direction economically
will include recoupling at least with Section one seventy nine depreciation.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
We're talking with Brian Kelly from the Small Business Association.
You know, so would argue, you know, they've never had
this tax right off before, so decoupling from the federal government,
they're not really losing out on anything, So it's not.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Really big of Kyle. Yeah, no, it's a big deal.
In fact, it's a huge deal. First is complexity. Everybody's
going to pay more, well at least to those who
are making investments and equipment, are going to pay more
in terms of just compliance with the tax system. It
takes a very simple, straightforward system, it makes it much
more complex. So that's just an added cost both for
(08:10):
the government and for the tax payer that gets added on.
But also you have to think about the fact that
the borders, the people that are operating inside the border
of the state of Michigan now are separated from their
competition in a bad way from the rest of the country.
So you can say, hey, you're no worse oft than
last year, but yes, you are worse oft than last
(08:31):
year because your competition is getting a tax break and
you're not because you're in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Well, thank you for joining us on the show today.
Brian Kelly, President and CEO of the Small Business Association
of Michigan, member of the board of Trustees for Oakland University,
and the former Lieutenant Governor of Michigan. You're listen of
Michigan's Big Show starring Michael Patrick Shields. We'll be back
after the short break.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Have you ever wondered why health insurance costs seem to
keep going up? I was doing some research online and
I stumbled upon some surprising information on Blue Cross Blue
Shield of Michigan's websitemibluedaily dot com slash affordability. I was
surprised to learn that the cost Blue Cross pays for
prescription drugs rose by a staggering fifteen percent last year.
(09:21):
Fifteen percent. That's five times higher than inflation. It's no
wonder healthcare costs or a concern for so many of us.
That's why Blue Cross, Blue Shield of Michigan is working
hard to help all of us better understand the factors
driving up healthcare costs and sharing what they are doing
is a business to address it. Because Blue Cross knows
that healthcare is personal, it needs to work for everyone,
(09:42):
and affordability matters. So I encourage you to take a
minute and check OUTMI Blue Daily dot com, slash affordability
and get informed. You'll be glad you did. It's eye
opening information that can help everyone better understand the complexities
of the healthcare system and its impact on your health
insurance costs. Michael Patrick Shields here. As you all know,
(10:03):
I have fuzzy math and I'm at Dusty Cellar for
my October six for sixty six dollars wine club. And
there's a surprise. It's seven for sixty six dollars. Matt Rhodes.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
As a thank you to all our Loyer Wine Club
members and anyone who'd like to join, We're offering a
seventh bonus bottle with the club packs.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Do I get to choose the seventh bottle.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We'll have a number of option for you to choose,
from being red white or a sparkling wine.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
I'm in for that. The club is still the same,
no cost to join, no commitments, and discounts on all
the beer and wine purchases.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
That's right, all the same benefits, just as you mentioned.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
As long as I'm here, I think I'm going to
get a gift card for a client. How can those
be used at Dusty's Matt.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Nice thing about gift cards they can redeemed here in
the cellar for any retail purchase and also with the
tap room your local neighborhood Club.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Seven for sixty six in October. For the wine club,
it's Dusty Cellar on Grand River and Okamus online too
at dustysellar dot com.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Cheers, Michael Patrick
Welcome back to Michigan's Big Show starring Michael Patrick Shields.
Chicago is being named the best city in the country
for the ninth year in a row by Conde Nass
Travelers Readers Choice Award. Chicago was also named the friendliest
city in the World. I think some people might disagree
with those rankings if you're in the wrong parts of Chicago.
(00:33):
But if you're in the right parts of Chicago, it's
a great city, very walk well, very fun, pretty windy.
Could be a little cold, but congratulations to that city. Well,
here in Michigan, we've got several issues going on with
the state budget having just been passed. And join us
(00:54):
here to talk about how this impacts small businesses. Is
the president and see the Small Business Association of Michigan,
and he is a former Lieutenant governor. Brian Kelly, Good morning,
How you doing, Brian?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Good morning, Kyle. Thanks for having me on the Big Show.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Hey glad that you could join us. You get a
run in yet today or not?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
No, I'm not an early morning runner. I like to
do it after work.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Oh really, gosh, I can't do it after work. I've
got two I don't I never know when my afterwork
is it could be like midnight, it could be nine,
it could be eight. I have no idea what I'm
going to end, so I got to do it first.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Wizards of your profession, I'm afraid absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I saw that you wrote a column for the that
showed up what was in the Detroit News here on
small businesses and the FED.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That's right. The Center Reserve has really been strangely aloof
to what is happening on the ground with small businesses.
And this has been going on for years now, where
they ignored inflationary pressures and then had to really slam
on the brakes with higher interest rates and tighter fiscal policy.
If they have recognized the inflation and listened to small
(02:03):
businesses earlier, they could have eased into that type of
fiscal policy. And then on the other end of the cycle,
when the labor market was clearly softening, if you listen
to small businesses, they ignored it. They were pretending as
though the jobs market was remarkably strong in two thousand,
twenty twenty three, in twenty twenty four, when these recent
(02:26):
downward revisions show that no, actually they weren't strong. And
if you had listened to small businesses back then, you
would have known that ahead of time. So today they're
resisting reducing interest rates, which is clearly culled to where
you look at the data. For some reason, they want
to be you know, they want to appear as though
they're a political and independent from the political system. But
(02:50):
the problem is they're making the wrong decisions and it
makes them look more political because of this theater they
I think the best protection from them looking political is
to make the right decisions, to make prudent decisions, and
right now, clearly the prudent decision is to continue to
reduce interest rates because a softer economy is a bigger
(03:13):
threat than high inflation.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Have you seen a fad that is as I don't
know if responsive is the right word, but seems like
under the thumb of a president as this one.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
This particular Federal Reserve and the president beefing the way
that they are is unusual. And you know, I think
the best thing that the chair of the Federal Reserve
Boarder Directors could do, Jerome Powell, would be to just
not worry about what the president is saying and do
the right thing, which is reduced interest rates. He seems
(03:46):
to be so concerned that Trump wants him to reduce
interest rates that he's resistant to doing it, even though
take Trump out of the picture, just look at the data,
it's obvious that he should be. He's been way late
and very slow. And that's why I think the best
protection against all the political back and forth and this
(04:08):
public few that the two of them are having, the
best protection is to just make the right decision based
on the data and ignore the politics. But he seems
to be willing to make the wrong decision to appear
to look like he is. He's not under the thumb
if Viele of the president. I think he would be
hailed and respected if he just were to ignore all
(04:31):
that and let the information that is obvious at this point.
Interest rates are too high. It is constricting the economy,
it is hurting the job market. Market, don't screw it
up any further. We had a strong job market. It
seems to have been kind of squandered by the Federal
Reserve and their slowness, and it is time for them
(04:51):
to act.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Well, we'll see what happens on that front. I don't
know if you saw this or not, but yesterday House
Speaker Matt Hall had one of his press conferences kind
of recaping the budget, and he suggested during it that
he's willing to work with the governor on a program
that she announced that at the beginning of the year,
this higher Michigan legislation, which looks like it's very similar
(05:15):
to something that was done under the Governor Rick Snyder's
administration called Good Jobs for Michigan. Have you taken a
look at this and is there similarities?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
What I'll say, Kyle, is that there's nothing to take
a look at other than comments that were made in
the press conference. So I don't know, I've heard that characterization.
I read the same reports that you did, in the
same statements that were made, and so that's the inference
that has been shared. But there really isn't a proposal
on the table for anybody to review. But I think
(05:51):
if where to go back, I think if you're really
interested in an effective economic development, it would be a
good place to start is to couple with the federal
tax system. There's really strong incentives that were that were
added into the federal tax code which are being disallowed
here in Michigan, and I think that would be a
(06:13):
good place to start if you want to charge the
Michigan's Michigan's economy up especially. There's one part of it,
it's called one Section one seventy nine depreciation. It's the
one most often used by small businesses. And the state
has decoupled from the small Business Accelerated Depreciation system. That
(06:34):
that's a big mistake. You know, these are for companies
that are making modest sized investments in rewarding that is,
I think is a smart move and it doesn't cost
the state hardly anything. It was maybe thirty two million
dollars in total costs for Section one seventy nine depreciation.
(06:55):
You know how many companies utilized, tens of thousands of
small businesses every year utilize it. That's a lot of
bang for your buck, you know, in these economic development
programs sometimes are you know, multi billion dollar endeavors, you know,
thirty two million dollars to help thirty or forty thousand
small businesses, but that you get a lot from it.
(07:18):
And I hope that in this broader decision on economic
development and sending the state in a better direction economically
will include recoupling at least with Section one seventy nine depreciation.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
We're talking with Brian Kelly from the Small Business Association.
You know, so would argue, you know, they've never had
this tax right off before, so decoupling from the federal government,
they're not really losing out on anything, So it's not.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Really big of Kyle. Yeah, no, it's a big deal.
In fact, it's a huge deal. First is complexity. Everybody's
going to pay more, well at least to those who
are making investments and equipment, are going to pay more
in terms of just compliance with the tax system. It
takes a very simple, straightforward system, it makes it much
more complex. So that's just an added cost both for
(08:10):
the government and for the tax payer that gets added on.
But also you have to think about the fact that
the borders, the people that are operating inside the border
of the state of Michigan now are separated from their
competition in a bad way from the rest of the country.
So you can say, hey, you're no worse oft than
last year, but yes, you are worse oft than last
(08:31):
year because your competition is getting a tax break and
you're not because you're in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I got you.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Well, thank you for joining us on the show today.
Brian Kelly, President and CEO of the Small Business Association
of Michigan, member of the board of Trustees for Oakland University,
and the former Lieutenant Governor of Michigan. You're listen of
Michigan's Big Show starring Michael Patrick Shields. We'll be back
after the short break.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Have you ever wondered why health insurance costs seem to
keep going up? I was doing some research online and
I stumbled upon some surprising information on Blue Cross Blue
Shield of Michigan's websitemibluedaily dot com slash affordability. I was
surprised to learn that the cost Blue Cross pays for
prescription drugs rose by a staggering fifteen percent last year.
(09:21):
Fifteen percent. That's five times higher than inflation. It's no
wonder healthcare costs or a concern for so many of us.
That's why Blue Cross, Blue Shield of Michigan is working
hard to help all of us better understand the factors
driving up healthcare costs and sharing what they are doing
is a business to address it. Because Blue Cross knows
that healthcare is personal, it needs to work for everyone,
(09:42):
and affordability matters. So I encourage you to take a
minute and check OUTMI Blue Daily dot com, slash affordability
and get informed. You'll be glad you did. It's eye
opening information that can help everyone better understand the complexities
of the healthcare system and its impact on your health
insurance costs. Michael Patrick Shields here. As you all know,
(10:03):
I have fuzzy math and I'm at Dusty Cellar for
my October six for sixty six dollars wine club. And
there's a surprise. It's seven for sixty six dollars. Matt Rhodes.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
As a thank you to all our Loyer Wine Club
members and anyone who'd like to join, We're offering a
seventh bonus bottle with the club packs.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Do I get to choose the seventh bottle.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
We'll have a number of option for you to choose,
from being red white or a sparkling wine.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
I'm in for that. The club is still the same,
no cost to join, no commitments, and discounts on all
the beer and wine purchases.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
That's right, all the same benefits, just as you mentioned.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
As long as I'm here, I think I'm going to
get a gift card for a client. How can those
be used at Dusty's Matt.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
Nice thing about gift cards they can redeemed here in
the cellar for any retail purchase and also with the
tap room your local neighborhood Club.
Speaker 4 (10:49):
Seven for sixty six in October. For the wine club,
it's Dusty Cellar on Grand River and Okamus online too
at dustysellar dot com.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Cheers, Michael Patrick
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