Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello, you're listening to Michael Patrick Shields. A University of
Michigan regent, spoke out Thursday against the university's decision to
end gender affirming care for miners at its hospital system.
(00:28):
They had a board meeting, and at that board meeting
it was Paul Brown, who is, by the way, running
for re election for regents. He's a Lavonia Democrat, and
he raised the issue after the parent of a transgender
child called the decision cowardly during the public comment portion
of the meeting. They held a meeting in Flint and
(00:49):
a Brown says he has a family member who also
is a transgender child and frustrated with the decision. He
thinks that it's embarrassing, a horrible and dangerous press to
set that we would capitulate to politics. There are people
who think at that age it's a permanent change and
(01:11):
people will come to regret it. Other people say it's
being driven by bad science. Doctor Heather Zak is a
psychologist in the East Lansing area. I read the story
and I was very curious to hear her thoughts on
the concept of gender changing care for minors. What is your.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Reaction to that?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Good morning, Good morning, well, I don't want to come
about it from a science perspective or a political perspective,
but I will share that I have had throughout my
years of practice different individuals who have wanted to seek
I guess support for gender change, be it medical and
(02:00):
or hormonally, and it's been an interesting it's been an
interesting to watch because there are a lot of psychologic
dynamics to it, and there's a lot of physiologic dynamics
to it, which is why one of the courses of
actions that I have often recommended as using kind of
a comprehensive team approach. That being said, it is interesting
(02:25):
because for my patients, and I can only speak to
my patients, I had a couple of situations where people
in the end were glad they didn't end up making
changes because as they evolved in their brain development and
their homeowned development, and this was into their twenties, they
began to have different experiences than they had had when
(02:46):
they were youthful, and we're glad to not have made
some permanent changes. So I can only speak to it.
Like I said, from my vantage point that I think
it's a very unique, very talking about and also one
that doesn't necessarily take automatic. We ought to handle things one, two,
(03:08):
three always in this particular fashion. And again my experience,
a couple of my experiences have been pretty unique, I think,
in that folks ended up really reaffirming some different dynamics
as they grew older, realizing that they were not as
(03:29):
comfortable in the skin that they were thinking they were
going to choose.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Is it too simplistic to add, too simplistic to ask
if someone at that age is capable of making such
a major decision? I mean medically, and you know with surgically.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Well, you know, I had an emergency call last night
as an example. And we know that our brains aren't
fully developed until between the ages of twenty four to
twenty six. That doesn't mean that people don't have their
own feelings, their own awarenesses, their own thoughts, that they
know their needs and want. We give people the right
(04:08):
to vote at eighteen, right, So what we want to
understand is hormonally, our bodies are still going through growth changes. Neurologically,
our bodies are going through growth changes. And so it's
very interesting if you ever talk to somebody who's it's
like almost more anyway. Twenty six, twenty seven twenty eight
for people then to say, Wow, I see the necessity
(04:33):
in allowing ourselves to move through that. And yet the
controversy is that those are also very formative years and
years of a lot of growth within one's life experience.
And if we think we're supposed to wait until twenty
four to twenty six brain hormone development to occur then
(04:53):
to be able to have life experience, that also doesn't work.
So there is a fine line in there, but we
want to take that into consideration when we're making those
kind of decisions in a family system.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
On another matter, Jennifer Lopez j Low has been interviewed
on a radio show with Howard Stern and she's been
engaged six times and married four times. Someone you're talking
to has similar statistics, by the way, so I'm not
passing any judgment. But here's how she answered Howard Stern
(05:28):
when she asked about that romantic record. No, no, And
do you think you really have experienced loving someone?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yes, you have, and when you can't get that love back.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
What I learned it's not that I'm not lovable, is
that they're not capable.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
They can't love, they don't have it in them. They
need to appreciate the little person inside of them.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
They need to give themips.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And they gave me what they had, but they gave
you all of it every time.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
But this much, all the rings, all the.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Things I could ever want, right, I'm trying to give
me the houses, the rings, the marriage, all of it.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
But they didn't love you. They didn't and didn't know you,
and I didn't love myself.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Doctor zach If j Loo are on your couch talking
like that, what would you say?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Oh, my goodness, that's a big question. Michael. Let's just
say this. I don't understand it because I can only
hear this one linear side of it. I think what
I would speak to is love is hard, right, Love
is hard. Relationships are hard. We need to know ourselves enough.
We need to love ourselves enough. There needs to be
(06:37):
a lot of support in our lives so that we
are not looking for one person to love us, but
we're also knowing how to ask the one person that
we're in the relationship to love us. And can they
do that? Are they willing to try? All that being said,
I wrote down this week. You know, men and women,
the differences men men don't think to ask men don't
(06:57):
think to notice, women don't think to ask. We are
such different humans that it's fascinating how we have all
joined together. It takes work, both from the individual perspective
and from really the partnership perspective. But what she's identifying
(07:18):
is right on in that for her, she probably also
didn't know what she wanted and what she needed, and
she's also evolved over time in her six or marriages,
six whatever that was, six engagements, six engagements, she's evolved
to understand her own needs and her own wants, which,
(07:39):
similar to the initial topic, is also part of what
we do in life. Right. As we evolve, we go
through different awarenesses and come to different understandings that we
couldn't have come to earlier only through life experience. So
there isn't always a you know, a right or a
wrong in relationships, but there is a learning curve. I
(07:59):
also think we're in a different time zone at this point,
not literally figuratively finding huh, in that what we're looking
for and what we need and what we want is
so different today than what a lot of the research
has been based on. We have a whole different societal expectation,
a whole different bandwidth for what people care about, what's
(08:22):
important to people. We're in a different time and I
don't think we understand it yet in terms of love
and longevity and the dynamics of what it takes to
be in this world that we live in today's world
per relationships.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Do you think should get married?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You know, I don't ever like to answer those kinds
of questions like that, but do I think ideally?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Now?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Go live your life?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
See big decisions made at an early age and in
my case, at a late age.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
People can't have access to quality medical care without affordable
health insurance. At Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, we
understand increasing health insurance costs are becoming more of a
strain on the budgets of the businesses and people we serve.
Affordability matters. It affects real families, real decisions, and real care.
That's why at Blue Cross were dedicated to finding solutions
(09:22):
to learn about this critical issue in our efforts to
make healthcare affordable for all. VISITMI blue Daily dot com
slash affordability today.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
Whether they're dough boys, comments or even gremlins. Every public
school in Michigan is proud to be known for something,
and at the Michigan Lottery, we're proud to be known
for something too. Education. I'm Lottery Commissioner Susannah Screlli, and
one hundred percent of our profits go to support the
state School Aid Fund. Last year, the lottery contributed over
one billion dollars. So whatever hometown school you're from, we're
(09:52):
rooting for all of them at Michigan Lottery for fun
for schools.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Knowing your limits as always the best BacT. Dean Transportation
is looking for compassionate people to join our team of
school bus drivers and attendants. Visit deanjobs dot com to
see all openings. Dean Transportation provides paid training to obtain
a commercial driver's license, increased starting pay, comprehensive benefits, and
(10:17):
flexible schedules with no weekend shifts, no experience needed. Apply
today at Dean jobs dot com and train for back
to school season. That's da n jobs dot com.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Change is bright. It's a clean energy future fueled by
fields of solar. It's led lighting in every home, and
Consumers Energy is making it happen with their industry leading
clean energy plan. This year, They're going all in on
their commitment to protecting the planet. While serving nearly seven
(10:52):
million Michigan neighbors. Learn more and join the movement at
consumers Energy dot com. Slash clean Energy
Hello, you're listening to Michael Patrick Shields. A University of
Michigan regent, spoke out Thursday against the university's decision to
end gender affirming care for miners at its hospital system.
(00:28):
They had a board meeting, and at that board meeting
it was Paul Brown, who is, by the way, running
for re election for regents. He's a Lavonia Democrat, and
he raised the issue after the parent of a transgender
child called the decision cowardly during the public comment portion
of the meeting. They held a meeting in Flint and
(00:49):
a Brown says he has a family member who also
is a transgender child and frustrated with the decision. He
thinks that it's embarrassing, a horrible and dangerous press to
set that we would capitulate to politics. There are people
who think at that age it's a permanent change and
(01:11):
people will come to regret it. Other people say it's
being driven by bad science. Doctor Heather Zak is a
psychologist in the East Lansing area. I read the story
and I was very curious to hear her thoughts on
the concept of gender changing care for minors. What is your.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Reaction to that?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Good morning, Good morning, well, I don't want to come
about it from a science perspective or a political perspective,
but I will share that I have had throughout my
years of practice different individuals who have wanted to seek
I guess support for gender change, be it medical and
(02:00):
or hormonally, and it's been an interesting it's been an
interesting to watch because there are a lot of psychologic
dynamics to it, and there's a lot of physiologic dynamics
to it, which is why one of the courses of
actions that I have often recommended as using kind of
a comprehensive team approach. That being said, it is interesting
(02:25):
because for my patients, and I can only speak to
my patients, I had a couple of situations where people
in the end were glad they didn't end up making
changes because as they evolved in their brain development and
their homeowned development, and this was into their twenties, they
began to have different experiences than they had had when
(02:46):
they were youthful, and we're glad to not have made
some permanent changes. So I can only speak to it.
Like I said, from my vantage point that I think
it's a very unique, very talking about and also one
that doesn't necessarily take automatic. We ought to handle things one, two,
(03:08):
three always in this particular fashion. And again my experience,
a couple of my experiences have been pretty unique, I think,
in that folks ended up really reaffirming some different dynamics
as they grew older, realizing that they were not as
(03:29):
comfortable in the skin that they were thinking they were
going to choose.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Is it too simplistic to add, too simplistic to ask
if someone at that age is capable of making such
a major decision? I mean medically, and you know with surgically.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Well, you know, I had an emergency call last night
as an example. And we know that our brains aren't
fully developed until between the ages of twenty four to
twenty six. That doesn't mean that people don't have their
own feelings, their own awarenesses, their own thoughts, that they
know their needs and want. We give people the right
(04:08):
to vote at eighteen, right, So what we want to
understand is hormonally, our bodies are still going through growth changes. Neurologically,
our bodies are going through growth changes. And so it's
very interesting if you ever talk to somebody who's it's
like almost more anyway. Twenty six, twenty seven twenty eight
for people then to say, Wow, I see the necessity
(04:33):
in allowing ourselves to move through that. And yet the
controversy is that those are also very formative years and
years of a lot of growth within one's life experience.
And if we think we're supposed to wait until twenty
four to twenty six brain hormone development to occur then
(04:53):
to be able to have life experience, that also doesn't work.
So there is a fine line in there, but we
want to take that into consideration when we're making those
kind of decisions in a family system.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
On another matter, Jennifer Lopez j Low has been interviewed
on a radio show with Howard Stern and she's been
engaged six times and married four times. Someone you're talking
to has similar statistics, by the way, so I'm not
passing any judgment. But here's how she answered Howard Stern
(05:28):
when she asked about that romantic record. No, no, And
do you think you really have experienced loving someone?
Speaker 4 (05:36):
Yes, you have, and when you can't get that love back.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
What I learned it's not that I'm not lovable, is
that they're not capable.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
They can't love, they don't have it in them. They
need to appreciate the little person inside of them.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
They need to give themips.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
And they gave me what they had, but they gave
you all of it every time.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
But this much, all the rings, all the.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Things I could ever want, right, I'm trying to give
me the houses, the rings, the marriage, all of it.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
But they didn't love you. They didn't and didn't know you,
and I didn't love myself.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Doctor zach If j Loo are on your couch talking
like that, what would you say?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Oh, my goodness, that's a big question. Michael. Let's just
say this. I don't understand it because I can only
hear this one linear side of it. I think what
I would speak to is love is hard, right, Love
is hard. Relationships are hard. We need to know ourselves enough.
We need to love ourselves enough. There needs to be
(06:37):
a lot of support in our lives so that we
are not looking for one person to love us, but
we're also knowing how to ask the one person that
we're in the relationship to love us. And can they
do that? Are they willing to try? All that being said,
I wrote down this week. You know, men and women,
the differences men men don't think to ask men don't
(06:57):
think to notice, women don't think to ask. We are
such different humans that it's fascinating how we have all
joined together. It takes work, both from the individual perspective
and from really the partnership perspective. But what she's identifying
(07:18):
is right on in that for her, she probably also
didn't know what she wanted and what she needed, and
she's also evolved over time in her six or marriages,
six whatever that was, six engagements, six engagements, she's evolved
to understand her own needs and her own wants, which,
(07:39):
similar to the initial topic, is also part of what
we do in life. Right. As we evolve, we go
through different awarenesses and come to different understandings that we
couldn't have come to earlier only through life experience. So
there isn't always a you know, a right or a
wrong in relationships, but there is a learning curve. I
(07:59):
also think we're in a different time zone at this point,
not literally figuratively finding huh, in that what we're looking
for and what we need and what we want is
so different today than what a lot of the research
has been based on. We have a whole different societal expectation,
a whole different bandwidth for what people care about, what's
(08:22):
important to people. We're in a different time and I
don't think we understand it yet in terms of love
and longevity and the dynamics of what it takes to
be in this world that we live in today's world
per relationships.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Do you think should get married?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
You know, I don't ever like to answer those kinds
of questions like that, but do I think ideally?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
Now?
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Go live your life?
Speaker 1 (08:51):
See big decisions made at an early age and in
my case, at a late age.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
People can't have access to quality medical care without affordable
health insurance. At Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, we
understand increasing health insurance costs are becoming more of a
strain on the budgets of the businesses and people we serve.
Affordability matters. It affects real families, real decisions, and real care.
That's why at Blue Cross were dedicated to finding solutions
(09:22):
to learn about this critical issue in our efforts to
make healthcare affordable for all. VISITMI blue Daily dot com
slash affordability today.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
Whether they're dough boys, comments or even gremlins. Every public
school in Michigan is proud to be known for something,
and at the Michigan Lottery, we're proud to be known
for something too. Education. I'm Lottery Commissioner Susannah Screlli, and
one hundred percent of our profits go to support the
state School Aid Fund. Last year, the lottery contributed over
one billion dollars. So whatever hometown school you're from, we're
(09:52):
rooting for all of them at Michigan Lottery for fun
for schools.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Knowing your limits as always the best BacT. Dean Transportation
is looking for compassionate people to join our team of
school bus drivers and attendants. Visit deanjobs dot com to
see all openings. Dean Transportation provides paid training to obtain
a commercial driver's license, increased starting pay, comprehensive benefits, and
(10:17):
flexible schedules with no weekend shifts, no experience needed. Apply
today at Dean jobs dot com and train for back
to school season. That's da n jobs dot com.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Change is bright. It's a clean energy future fueled by
fields of solar. It's led lighting in every home, and
Consumers Energy is making it happen with their industry leading
clean energy plan. This year, They're going all in on
their commitment to protecting the planet. While serving nearly seven
(10:52):
million Michigan neighbors. Learn more and join the movement at
consumers Energy dot com. Slash clean Energy
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