James Wong

The Millennium Group Sessions Redux returns with writer, director and producer James Wong!

You will know James from his work on Millennium and The X-files. He also worked on series such as  The Lone Gunmen, American Horror Story and the Commish. He also co-created the cult series Space: Above & Beyond with then partner Glen Morgan. 

Hosts - Troy L. Foreman & James McLean

Special guest - James Wong

Follow us on Twitter - @tiwwamm

Website - www.thetimeisnowmm.com

Podcast Intro - Lance Henriksen

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
After a decade, the time isnow, the wave is becoming title.
Join us in the campaign for thereturn of FBI criminal profiler Frank Black and
Millennium. This is the back toFrank Black Millennium group sessions. My friends,

(00:26):
this is who we are. Andgood afternoon from myself mister James Saucy
McLain and I will wish you aIt is a good afternoon for you at
the moment, isn't it. You'rejust hitting afternoon now? Is it about
lunchtime? It's almost noon. It'salmost noon, so it's still morning.

(00:49):
So good morning to my associate Troy. What should we give you? Well?
I love you, I was Ithought another word that would have been
perfect for our converse this afternoon,but I thought it might be a bit
too risque, so we'll call youTroy Lucky Foreman. Good day people,
Good morning, good evening. Thisis the first in a sense of a

(01:11):
brand new set of podcasts. Eventhough it's the first of a new set.
In our new set of podcasts,we had a technical issue the other
week where there's a minor issue whereall our podcasts were deleted, and that
was nothing to do with me orTroy very frustrating for the time, but
some good has come out of it, because you know, you always got

(01:32):
to be positive about these things andfind some good and a bad situation.
We're re releasing those podcasts which havebeen deleted, and we're starting ones like
this podcast which haven't been heard beforeas well, and we're storing them in
a different place, and it's allgoing to be rather exciting, isn't it,
mister Foreman. Very exciting, Lucky, Yeah, very exciting. It

(01:53):
is very exciting. What is thebonus of this is one, it's a
very secure place. Two, we'reobviously wor before because our podcasts were all
sitting on Graham Smith's server for thisis who we are dot there and we
didn't really want to keep eating uphis space with our podcast, so we
were a little worried about that,and Graham was understandably a little worried about

(02:14):
that. So it removes that issue. And thirdly, we've got we're going
to have a special app that comeswith this as well, and some of
you may actually be listening to thisvia that app, that iPhone app,
which will help people who are onthe move or just feel like they want
to be technologically superior to everyone elseto download any of these episodes and listen

(02:37):
to them on their iPhone, sothat would be wonderful. And while that
there will be some special features occasionallywallpapers. We're still in the process of
making the app, so it willbe out shortly, but we're very excited
about that, very excited, veryexciting indeed, And just to quick thank
you to Lance as well, whowas a lot of helping us sorting out
this new this new approach to ourpodcasts. Yes, thank you so much.

(03:00):
And speaking of the podcast, today, we have the long, long
rumored It talked about James Wong interviewGod, the amount of times I put
on the podcas on the blogs,and things coming soon James Wong. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. The thing aboutit is like, you know,
we had the way to get Iwanted James to hear the podcast first before

(03:21):
we put anything up, and he'sso busy with his new show, Tower
prep and a couple of other thingsgoing on that he finally got around and
listening to it and gave us theokay. So we are now happy to
bring you James Wong on the podcastNothing. The following program was recorded on
an earlier date for presentation that thistime, at the start of this year,

(03:45):
I said to my esteemed, ifbarely sober colleague, the utterly horrid
Troy L Foreman, the sooner we'llbe running out of guests for these Millennium
Millennium podcasts. He laughed in myface, and I laughed back at his
And I might have sent out abuy aflyer campaign naming and shaming his mother
just to make the point. Ijust didn't think we had topped the last
year's names. We had Lance Henrickson, Chris Carter, Megan Gallagher, Frank

(04:08):
Spotnitz Well, who's laughing? Now? This year we've had some wonderful guests.
One in particular, I never thoughtwe'd get to speak about millennium,
and now I could up that numberto two. Yes, two very particular
guests I thought we would never getto speak about millennium, who have been
so bloody wonderful to come and talkto us about millennium this very year.
The first of these was the wonderfulGlenn Morgan, But enough about him,

(04:30):
we're here to praise today's guests.His credits include Final Destination, Space Above
and Beyond, the others the exfiles and of course many many more.
A writer, a producer and arather spiffingly wonderful man is a thrill to
meet and greet. Jim Wong.Well, I mean, I think I
would like to jump straight in withMillennium because I think a lot of people
listening to this would like to hearyour you know, your standpoint on Millennium

(04:55):
because obviously you've been you and Glennhaven't really spoken about it for a long
time. When we spoke to Glenn, Glenn said that when you when you
two took over Millennium in season two, you had very you took quite different
roles in how you worked on seasontwo. What was your role really but
within the duo of you and Glenn, and how did they differ? Well,

(05:15):
I remember, I think every littleEarly in the season two we decided
to uh sort of each ship thatconcentrate on particular like we keep the episode
and one of us one stating oneand the other one like the other one.
And then well there were whoever wasdoing that episode had the responsibility about

(05:43):
to Vancouver, producing it, preppingit, and editing afterwards. So there
were a lot of shows that Istarted didn't know very much about it.
And I'm sure showed that he didn't. He wanted to involved this, so
we'll go with that was our ofworking in that we would get over UHL

(06:05):
the next episodes that one of uswould clock of Bate were on on the
other and h I thought, youknow, it was an interesting it was
a show that I think for usit was it was a way to uh
you're left, yeah, sort ofhelping each other with uh working if you're

(06:31):
not working situations, so that wewould have more time with family or something.
Right, they gave it for achance to be with you know,
we thought we didn't we were soinvolved with right is that is that in
contrast to how you're working in spaceabove and beyond? Yeah, those that

(06:51):
the well very it was our firstshow that we created, so we were
there. I think, oh,it's pub informed by that because I think
we were there every day, thecataclock at night and they and it was
really stressful although fun, and soit was probably you know, came out

(07:13):
of that that we did that killer. So you know, we were you
know, alternate concentrating and I mean, but we're going to going to space
above and beyond. It's just touchingon that how did how did you feel?
I mean, I mean when wespoke to Glenn, Glenn was obviously
he still carries a lot of alot of pain about the loss of that

(07:38):
series. How do you feel aboutit now? And how did you feel
about it when you went into Millennium? I mean, was you know,
was the issues that were obviously havingwhich were coloring with space above and beyond?
Did that affect you a tour whenyou were doing season two of Millennium.
I'm not sure for me, youknow, it's space, It's great

(07:59):
a lot. Uh, I thoughtwe need you know, particularly towards the
end of the end of the season, I thought, I how we made
a really into shows. H andI thought we had a chance to really
uh I think if the show founditself finally and uh so I was really

(08:22):
happy with the shows that we wereproducing. And then I think Fox moved
it. We'll be the Kyle Flatat one point, and the ratings started
dropping precipitously, and you know,I think, you know, I I
tended to sort of blame that ifthat really it's all like the fan base

(08:43):
was really the fans really really luckystuff. We really started to look at
Joe, and we felt we wereall that back. So after that,
I think we did uh it pulledmy Lennium. We did another pilot called
The Notorious Seven, but its coloredNotorious at first, and then some clothing

(09:03):
line had had that name and soit was at the seat until but that
wasn't another you know that. Ireally loved that pilot and it was an
interesting I thought it would have beenmade a very interesting show. It was
basically, h you know, youtake Michael Coleon, so the Godfather,

(09:24):
he comes home and he's prayed forhis for the Godfather's death, and now
at uh his family, I meanhe had seventh family city that barrier,
uh sort of mob boxes and sothe character that Michael's family Michael, but

(09:46):
he would basically he was at thejail, and in the jail he was
sort of mentured by this guy whowho showed him. And this guy was
Michael character. The Southern character wasreally the magic so he was guide himself
and kind of go undercover into outfrom the bottom of each family, cry
family and destroyed destroy the fail someway then, so that part of looked

(10:11):
made and I think it was.It was sort of on the edge of
the time Peter Occos the President Fox, and I think it was on the
verge of being picked up and thenneed of that they use that to get
us to agree to run Millennium withsome something weird like that were were they

(10:33):
were going, well, we'll pickyou up maybe for my season, maybe
you know, just for a shortolder and then they watch you do Millennium
instead, And there was something likethat. It was fing crazy where there
was the kind of character and thedangled at the same time they were sort
of quashing all the next show,and then they gave us a lot of

(10:56):
money. It was something like that, We're gonna go walk a lot of
light and then on your pain,like so they'll do that something like that.
So for me, it wasn't asmuch as the reaction to Space being
canceled that it was. There wasother circumstances involved. The first episode you

(11:18):
wrote for Millennium season one, correctme if I'm wrong, was Dead Letters,
right right. What were your thoughtson that very first episode when you
saw it actually air. Well,I felt like we didn't do the superb
you know, I got theven onewith flog and someble airing, and you

(11:39):
know, we didn't really cut theretoo much of it. We had to
write two episodes, I think,and that uh you know, it really
was sort of to me and alot of the lot of serial killing sort
of it was pretty sake forward,you know, and that and that regard

(12:00):
so well, we can't now Ifelt we did, you know, we
did? Okay, Yeah, thatwe there weren't something we really have a
graph of what the show cause ofor what we do with it. It's
just kind of following the lead,you know, here's here's like Latin can

(12:20):
sort of lash out the images andand we think when we're often we went
to this is a crazy places inl a incober City. It was called
the Museum of Giraffic Technology. Youheard of it, yeah, I have.
Anyway, so we were we wentthere and we were just walking around
and uh, I think that's deadleaves the idea of some of the dead

(12:43):
letters and he's really tiny images thatthe serial killer was leaving behind was flatted
by an even e Libit was anorder was cropping on a grain of light,
and he thought the lighting methic casewhat I think it was either call

(13:03):
him on a grain of life.So we thought that was really cool and
you know, and that's how thatthat particular killer was lean Ole see that
that that fascinates me. We weretalking to Frank Spotanetz and I asked Glynnis
as well, it is like,how do you come up with your ideas?
And the fact that you came upwith the dead letters idea because of

(13:26):
that is just it's fascinating to me. Yeah, I mean there's you know,
I think we've doubled up from.Uh ideas came from a lot of
different and some shows crazy like that. For instance, a lot excels,

(13:50):
uh what so they hit the HANDIrelates the German faith. But that idea
came from we were talking at HowardGordon at the time. Don't know we
fit you know, how you reallyshould do his show where snake eat the
guy and what snake as he's theguy and we look, that's that's like

(14:13):
the end of back three. That'sthat goal, you know, and our
never used it and he's he's probablywe're creating which would word uh so,
but when we're thinking about the lastepisode, he thought, hey, the
snaky the guy's always there. That'salways the cool image. And so he
came up with all that story problem, that image going, well, how

(14:35):
do we get doing snake eating theguy? Uh? So that's how that
came about it. But it's interestingthat we, you know, we started
with like a scene that ends thatthree and then he spilt the story around
it. I think that in seasonone, you know, you guys had
written like the best episodes from seasonone. I thought a lot of season

(14:58):
one was great, but I thinkthat the episod Woul and we just talked
to Tom about this, it standsout to me as the thin white line.
Yeah. I remember writing that.Yeah, when we talked to Glenn
and he was like, well,you need to talk to James about that,
because he pretty much wrote the episodehimself. I was just pretty much
on the sidelines on that one.It's so funny because Glenn told me about
your website and then I, really, people are watching a show. And

(15:20):
then so he said, yeah,they had a podcast and had a podcast
that's got him about your show.Uh, And I said what And I
had to go on completely really trueuh that episode and and then I listened
to the podcast and I thought,hang it up pretty good. Well,

(15:43):
thank you, so I thought,uh, and I remember a little bit
about it. I just remember Iremember reading Normalillers uh writing about here that
circle that he and he led outhe got it was a guy he helped

(16:04):
get out. Yeah, well Iknow exactly what you're talking about though,
Yeah, in print about Gerry Gilmore. Yeah, I remember exactly. Now.
Anyway, I was reading a bookabout that and that. Yeah,
I think I came up with,uh, I think like a fight like

(16:27):
that. It's one of those episodesthat that James and I and once of
us were talking about season one andwe were like, we're all like thin
white line, and we watched itagain. We're like, we totally forgot
how great this episode was. Remember, James, Yeah, did you get
those funny episodes which you really reallyenjoy? And yeah, when you're talking

(16:49):
about shows, so many I don'tknow get slip under the Carpet and that's
one of them, because I rememberwatching it at the time and thinking it
was brilliant from so many angles.I mean, the way the story was
juxtapost was great. The contrast betweenthe scenes, the very stark scenes in
the prison to the to the veryuh, very deep textural ones in the

(17:10):
in in the old warehouse, andthen as I say, You've got Lance's
acting in that is brilliant, andthe way he plays his two age Gore's
so much going on in there,and if we were we're totally forgotten about
it. But yes, that isone of the best ones of season one.
It's no doubt about it. Yeah, yeah, you know, I
wish I remember were I actually gotthe I never I never even got the

(17:34):
first season the DVD until I heardthe podcast next to one. I should,
I should watch that again. Solike that the that I actually still
have Feeni because I gave it tomy daughter to look at because she's really
her a fan, the horror horrorfan, and lake Will really had show,

(17:57):
so she got the TV. Well, I think you just made it
that. I'm sorry, go ahead, I think that you haven't given them
back to me yet. I wasgoing to say, I think you made
the gentleman that participated in the podcastvery happy that I don't you listen to
it that you liked it? Ohyeah, yeah, I've got here just

(18:22):
to while you were just speaking.Now, I just see if I could
pull up details I got from thisis Who We Are dot uh. The
conversation between Frank Black and Rich AllenHans, which provides what the episode's highlights,
was directly inspired by FBI profiler RobertWrestler's interview with serial killer Edmund Kemper.
Does that ring a pealty? Idefinitely. I remember well I first

(18:48):
started when they said, okay,you got when millennium, did you know?
I remember doing a lot of weshared right away because we was startling,
working high behind a lady bapping feet, And remember reading a lot of
uh Jiged Douglass books and and thinkit just just it was just a lot

(19:11):
of research on serial killers and allthat and people look cool, you know,
do horrible things. And I rememberreading all that stuff and it was
really late into the night as II, okay, you know, threw
myself at it. And I remembergoing to bed at three o'clock in the

(19:33):
morning and crawling at a bit mywife and thinking to my son, okay,
tomorrow, I mut's get it.Gotten so freaked out by every you
know, all these people, howthey couldn't call it victims and what Yeah,
who come into your house if yourhouse to unlock this because out an
identification coming to kill you? Uh? I. I came to my set

(19:56):
the next morning after good Night's Sleep. That's the fact that I, you
know Millennium and the research I hadto go into. They came on and
we had a mean, I mean, there's a place. It was a
very dark shollow and in order toget there you have to you have to
sort wallow in the darkness, darknessyou know yourself when you're letting a show

(20:22):
like that. Later, later,much later, we did a part of
her show time and uh, theydidn't get picked up. And really they
liked to work. And it wasa Bob Greenbold who worked with that box
at the World they Feed at Dexterthe book. That's even me why I
actually like that the series and Idon't we tell like what I'm saying,

(20:44):
You know what, what do youreally want to go there and get Wow,
that's a great show too. Yeah, it is a great show.
But you know, for me atthat quiet at least, I wasn't prepared
a little bit ready to and wevisit dark. It's funny to have you
say that because when we talked toFrank Spott and as he said the exact
same thing. After doing all theresearch and reading about the horrible things these

(21:07):
people did, He's like it justaffected him, you know, in his
personal life a little bit like goingto that dark place. Yeah, I
mean, well, you compare XClouds to the Millennium X clouds. You
can always do something fun even thoughit's creepy and scary or you know,
there's Dolly's funny. You always dosomething quirky and at the end they always

(21:33):
have to be sorry. Ellpic thingthing that look with milmennay Am you have
to go much darker. Yeah,so it's hard to get into it.
I mean it's hard I need toget into, but it's hard to get

(21:55):
out of. Right. It's kindof funny how actually powerlel was the whole
point to the central character who ishaving to keep going into a dark world
that he doesn't particularly want to gointo, but he does it because he
has to because it's his job,which is sociely funny. How the people
who actually sort of make this charactercome to life of exactly the same problem
doing what he's doing and creating creatinghis show. Yeah, I think that's

(22:19):
the eything that Frank you know,has had the power that oh no,
I think often I'm not sure whatyou know you can really, but it
had has sort of ruined its life, you know, you think about you

(22:41):
know, even if afraid that hisdaughter would have the same powers. You
know, we had we had alittle bit about it and uh, Megan
was you know the napp and it'sjust on a crazy great I have to
say something I noticed as well,we see some one. I mean,
I'm still going to go through everyepisode that you worked on, but uh,

(23:03):
kaboom the five, two, two, six, sixty six again a
bit like every time you wrote onein season one, As you were saying
about the serial killer angle, whilethe serial calory, serial serial killer angle
is present in each one, thevery very different episodes, aren't that.
I mean, Kaboom's another one Idon't think we've really ever talked about,
which I've always really enjoyed or he'sfound it's got a good pace to it.

(23:26):
And there's that again another great,very simple dialogue moment in the back
of the van where he's trying tocommunicate on the phone. So there's a
lovely bit of tension there and thatthat's that first series. The ones that
you that you worked on were veryvery different from each other, and we're
very explorative of the serial killer,which is a shame really, because I
remember the show was getting at thattime a lot of it's just a serial

(23:48):
killer of the week, but youwere putting a lot of diversity there.
Well, I mean, you know, I think that's our attempt to know
just a thing. Oh, Ithink everyone realized that season at least if
we at least we felt that peopleyou could follow the same path, it
gets you sort of led out ofit, you know, interesting things to

(24:11):
say. So I think that's whatit got, you know, I think
that's what a lot of sun isdoing because we had it's interesting that we
had it's sort of a very differentangle on it, and that they were
will even trying. I mean,I think people, you know, when

(24:33):
we think about uh, I thinkit was sort of a courageous for a
Fox to try it, you know, mm hmm. I get that had
nothing they like. But here's thefirst see here's the first year this we
are changing now after picking out theworld and a big change as well too.

(24:59):
Yeah, because it's interesting because Imean, I think one of the
reasons in in you know, inone way that millennium has endured to the
point where it's talked about by somany fans now is the fact that the
three seasons they came through was sovery inherently different from each other. And
you do wonder if season if youhadn't taken your approach in season two to
to shift the goalposts a little,whether it has still whether it have carried

(25:23):
that memorability that it has now.Yeah, I don't know. I mean
I think I think, you know, I'm very proud of although I carry
knew it too much of it,And I must have been very proud of
what we did in seating two becauseyou know, it was really I felt
like a stretching down to the reputshow. Yeah, I really, you

(25:52):
know, I loved the fact thatwe can do and act with Christian and
fectically of music video of her goingcrazy, and that people, you know,
allowed it to do it. Imean, I think it's much harder.
I mean, I believe I haven'tworking eb for a while, for
a long time into this that I'mabout to go back into it, and

(26:15):
I believe I think that changed alot. Well, we'll see, uh
that that name travels with they whatbut uh, you know, we were
giving up traded to do something withsome crazy stuff and they led us to
it to which I don't see trythat little happy that they give it.

(26:37):
Now. Were you and okay,we're not trying to draw up any kind
of you know, stuff from thepast, but were you aware of any
of the Uh? I don't know. How can I put this The issues
that maybe some people not liking thedirection season two was going in, Well,
I wasn't as aware of it untilafter next year, you think too,

(26:59):
uh So, I mean, Iguess you know, you just plit
Blackers the way you're doing it.I started, we did some good work,
and I thought some of those thatthe preactor were world amazing. Uh
particularly Darren's episodes. Oh yeah,there was just you know, I said
they were fantastic and any not toomany shows could have done lets and done

(27:26):
it so well. I thought,like like black was terrific. I don't
know, we just did some greatsteps, So I was. I was
surprised that said, well, youknow, at least while we're doing I
didn't feel like the older Oh peopleweren't happy with it. But afterwards,

(27:51):
I guess people felt they stay toofar from all right, the Oracles are
learning it and we were leaving again. So you know, I think it's
air you know, meaning they're happythey do something everything. I mean,
I'm not happy to say that thewell, let's put it back. It's

(28:17):
interesting that I mean, I Idon't know, it's funny because when we've
talked to a lot of fans aboutthis, and if you look on the
internet forums these days, I meanthere's a couple of very nice internet forums
where the fans are are you know, intelligently put out their points across Unlike
that the general belief of what peopleon the internet are like, Uh,
it's a I always find that.I always used to say that I used

(28:41):
to like season one the best,and yeah, when it comes down to
actually looking at episodes, there isso there's a there's a lot more complexity
to season two. It's there's alot more layers in there. I mean,
there's a lot more ambiguity. Imean, was that something that you
wanted to introduce into the show,because I mean serious one, it's very
clear, pretty clear cut on alot of it by serious too. Perhaps

(29:02):
Again, why is the show's carriedon so long in the fans' memories is
there's so much to talk about inthat I mean, did you realize that
who people would find so much depthto those shows. Was that intentional to
have something that had a little longevityin there or was that just part of
getting that episode out? No,that looked pretty intentional, like I think

(29:23):
everyone felt. You know, it'sinteresting everyone everyone said after seeing them,
when we can't keep on doing Jericho. So when we said, well here's
two don't show so we came inwith the bad yea of what we did
did too, and you know,so it's kind of h inspiriting the Milayium

(29:48):
group euro horridly, you're wow,are you really good? Good? People?
Really know? What? Did theytalk? Well? Why why are
they doing all that stuff? Andso you know it was intentional to put
all the stuff in. And thenof course, uh, once you finished

(30:14):
or watch you do it, andthen someplace looks like, hey, how
come you think you know you didn'tstick to what? Well, yeah,
the show anyway, but you knowyou can always go back and and creut
it that. You know afterwards,everyone agreed to every everyone agreed on on
the pack of the take before wetook it war, you wanted they weren't

(30:38):
just going in there and said we'regonna change everything and nowhere and you know,
I tell you what we wanna doing. So they agreed. Everyone said,
oh yeah, it's this sounds good. Let's do it. Before we
did it, you know, there'sonly afterwards to me then, you know,
and then people felt like they wenttoo far and I don't know,

(31:00):
brilliant, Yeah, I got yourpoint where oh and all really it can
I don't really listen to that becausewell, I think everyone has which entails
it right and would like the time, you know, a a degree or
yeah. So I can't. Ican't give into it. I was going

(31:22):
to say, I must get frustrating, that wasn't it, because you get
so many I mean, I knowa lot of people. I remember having
minor chats about people debates over this, and you get people a very simplistic
views on television who don't actually understandhow it works. And there's a sort
of notion going along room. Butsome people would have that g Glenn and
Jim who came on board, andbecause Chris wasn't there, he didn't realize

(31:44):
what they were doing to his showsort of attitude, which to me strikes
struck me as being a very simplisticview of how you actually produce a TV
show. So I sort of seewhy you sort of distance yourself because that
must get very frustrating when you knowyour job and you know that there's people
out there who will talk about howyou're doing your job. You don't know
how the job works. So doyou actually do you keep away from fandoms

(32:09):
on general? Generally? For thosethat I'm not saying you do, I
don't know. I'm just saying,do you prefer to keep a distance from
for as a general rule when youdo any of your work, be it
final destination or space up and beyond, to keep yourself away from frustration?
I actually do keep away from frombad and more so than planning actually,

(32:30):
because I felt like there wasn't thatfustration. You're right that well, people
really don't know how it works.And nope, you know when you do
whether the TV show atone be youdon't Julian of Akil, there's all kinds

(32:50):
of negatives and all these people andyou will commu and but at the end
of the day, you're you know, picked like come play. Uh,
you know nobody knows that that namethat said, hey you guys, do
people as I's be happy to doit and then it will be will very
well actually you know, well,you know, I have really no choice.

(33:15):
I mean I had to do itthat way some times. Conerhaps,
yeah, we do stuff so youknow, we make a mistakes. Her
Oh wow, I didn't work atall. That the work, you know,
I didn't work, but I yeah, I after I guess the whole
thing that you and you take therethere's accolade of people, of random people.

(33:39):
Then you have to take the criticismof land and people. So I
found it easier to not to lookat need and to go out of my
dude, oh because you know,uh, it's yes, but I take
responsiblity for that. My hey,and if not as simple ad every one

(34:04):
seems, well, I think wecan sit here and safely tell you that
it's in the past. Over instance, has been over ten years since Millenniums
on the air, I think,and James let me know if I'm wrong.
Season two is pretty much the holygrail of the Millennium series. What
do you think fans loving with seasonthe feet? I don't. I think
it's funny because I think I thinkfans sort of split, don't. I

(34:25):
mean a lot of there's just thesplit between season one season two. I
think season three loses a bit oflove. But I know, I mean
you are you are the staunch leaderof the season three brigade, which I
can understand. It's a lot ofgreat stuff in season three. But I
always find that when people sort ofsay the season one or season two,
but it comes down to it theconversations that end up sort of going round

(34:47):
and round in circles, the onesthat keep the show alive are normally,
Oh, it's the ones from seasontwo, because there there's a lot more
questions in there. And do youthink, Jim, do you think that?
Are you happy from what you canremember of season two? Are you
do you do feel that you fulfilledyou as a creative person? Did you

(35:08):
get everything you wanted to get outof Millennium out into that season? Did
it? Did it satisfy you asa whole? Yeah? I remember being
very up, very proud of someof what they did. They know that
they in a season. If thosenot every episode, O, you know

(35:32):
you get best. But it isthe huge train working down the back towards
they were the speedular, the studiorcollvision. You could have never stops.
You try to start, you know, ahead of time, doing some Still

(35:52):
it's saying that by the time itgets to the middle of the Choice mid
Pirates the first third season, youknow, we're really we're just coming and
gathlet do all this work and sometimeswere you know, the stories that sort
of change the script as wonderful asthey could be. And so there's you

(36:20):
know, not every show out ofthinking place, but I think we did.
I mean, I'm pretty happy withany crowd of what we did.
I thought we well put some reallyinteresting ideas out there, uh and and
told stories and different ways. Uhso that so that we you know,

(36:43):
following them and the procedural you know, there's will happen. There's a little
scary thing and teaser and you knowthat I really feel like we was uh
expect ranking with the form as wellas the context. So yeah, I

(37:04):
noticed as well. I mean,I think it's quite interesting between season one
and season two. From that veryfirst, very first episode the beginning in
the end, you feel there's araid. There's a very different change in
not just the where the show's going, but in the way it's written.
It does start to feel like ashow which is just saying here, we're
doing something new and we're not goingto be we're not We're not embarrassed about

(37:29):
that. We're not trying to besubtly driving you in a different direction.
We're going to show you a differentdirection. And perhaps that confidence is what's
made it made it last. Plusas I say, I mean, I
know people still talk about Luminary wantingto know I want still trying to grasp
the end of Luminary, or youknow the significance of hand of Saint Sebastian,

(37:51):
or you know, there's so muchgoing on there. Monster is the
girl relevant to the Evil Legions sortof thing in season one and Owls and
Roosters did did did? Did thewhole break? Did the whole that whole
fight in the Millennium group end upcreating the situation which was the big apocalypse
at the end of the season.There's so much going on there, which

(38:14):
I think is really does keep thatseries going, don't you agree to Troy.
I mean, there's a lot ofones there. We always seem to
be going to season two for episodesto talk about. So of course now
you think about I think about Blomonairing Chip a Chip show, right,
Yeah, Chips reading Dester, Oh, yes, nice to know the okay,

(38:42):
right, now I forget it.The COBALT's running and I have over
that show that the end was avery kind of a I mean I only
remember with the feeling. I rememberit was very good. I mean,
Chips will winning to get on becauseI think the most ambiguous episodes and the

(39:02):
whole show rows Chips Chips, theones where I think anot of fans always
left going, you know, whatthe hell? What what? What?
What? What happened there at theend? That's crazy. So yeah,
we need to we need to.We need to try and get you need
to help us get Chip here,and my operats are going to be a
dog page I walk out. Oh, that would be awesome. I have

(39:29):
to ask you because we forgot toask Glenn when we were talking to him,
uh with the end of season twowith the Marlborough virus, Glenn had
mentioned that if you guys had comeback for season three, that you hadn't
out for season for season three,would you care to elaborate or you're still

(39:50):
going to keep out a secret fearof it? He you can't. You
can't break that bond, Troy.You can't have you did have out for
season three, if you had tocome back Yeah, we had we had
out. Uh it wasn't be nicedream either. Yeah, don't don't do

(40:15):
us? What is it saint tous? Where where it was a kid
in a snow globe the entire seriesor whatever? That should be a cut,
James to think what the outs werefor season three. We had some
fans write in some questions for you, Uh, Jim. One of the

(40:35):
first ones I want to ask isfrom Nicholas Henneman, and that I hope
I pronounced his name right, heasked. Morgan and Wong episodes always incorporate
songs in a very memorable way,songs like horses in the Millennium episode the
Time is Now or Wonderful Wonderful whenthe X Files episode Home. The choice
of songs for season two was decidedlymore retro than the music that played in
season one. How did you choosethe songs? Did you write the episode

(40:59):
and then pick appropriate songs or didyou write scenes specifically for certain songs?
Yeah, depends, I think forthe X File, like for for I
think what we did was we alsofound that after the waterful waterfall happened,
Uh, that we love that,we love the effect of that. So

(41:21):
it was it was not only aposition of the you know, so that
the standard e potion of it wasall like that with the contract, I
guess we'll go for it, andso sometimes cheat a because you know the

(41:44):
effect that you want to the thingalthority there and there and kind all right,
you know, we go out,I need something here that would sometimes
you couldn't you can't get the solved, you know. Uh, and then
so you definitely kind of go first. Mm hmm. Thank you. I

(42:05):
believe that at the time really feltlike the multi that contact the contract to
drain the thong and the energy istruly I was just having a look.
I mean, because Nixus shows afew questions that he would like to city.

(42:25):
He had quite a few. Actually, well, I actually I have
another question. And one of myfavorite X Files episodes from from You and
Glenn is a home with the PeacockFamily. And Glad had mentioned that you
guys were thinking about doing it up, bringing the Peacock family to the Millennium
world. Yeah, yeah, ifyou were working on it, you actually

(42:45):
had written it or were starting towrite an episode, and Fox said,
I don't think so. Yeah.Well now yeah, they said, oh
this has been great. You know, Halloween Weeks episode and then uh,
I think it's free a lot.Oh no, no, no, no,
no, you can't do that.We will promise never to show that
X File and the exile again.One of the reasons why we have to

(43:07):
beat chip this is you know that. Oh yeah, yeah, we got
big trouble for that. Oh yeah, I remember, okay, we had
we had it was really quite controversial, even though we didn't think that at
the time. We get that we'vehad we had four ipn for e X

(43:30):
File. Well, actually we were. We were We're obligated to do four
episodes, and so we came upwith foy P. We thought, well,
what should we do first? Andwe thought, well, we should
do Homegause that's the most kind ofshape forward and uh, you know,
kind of down the middle episode.And I remember coming up with a sure

(43:55):
Actually I think I was in Hawaiiand I was I was sitting by the
pools like Jarblett. He was adedicate and he told me the story about
this guy. It's why its patientwho came in to his uh you know
why it's patient and came in andthe patient he was old and but here

(44:19):
but head black. Well he lookedkind of blackened and patient that, uh,
you know, you don't have todo anything. Noah came, no,
no, Nobah came for me.I don't need anything that you know.
He he always patients some kinds ofoutcome that to say okay and start
to work on a patient and prettysitting the guy that said, oh you

(44:40):
know what, I changed my lifeand have a fem memory. But nip
case he said this gentleman. Literallyhe went through. He went through a
very very painful procedure that would normallywould have a person squirming. And see
even with no he came in thenext case that's camelin, you know,
didn't kill anything. Comes back threemonths later, got a tailor and the

(45:07):
Dennis realized that it's patient. Well, one of the few people who literally
that you couldn't feel any pain andthat and though usually those sills, those
people you know, so diegannic becausethey get injured. They you know,
you know that they're injured. Sofrom that, uh, we got one

(45:30):
of the so they that should besold full that the Peacocks family said they
feel it out pain. And thenfrom the book from Charlie Chaplain Bill plaint
and conscribes the it's a biography,but it's facts. Going to the town
and he's befriended by his family whoyou know, gave a meal at home

(45:52):
and they liked them so much,so they were to show him a very
special family member. And he wentto room and split the hid out a
lot of lads underneath the thould wowthere about things just like no lakes and
no arms. They stood up andsay it starts, so we clapping get

(46:14):
with the kind of it was ourgeneration, and so that that that became
the peacocks mom and so you know, all those kind of different stories.
And then that's there's a book Ithink Blend that was reading about nature how
cruel and and uh the district sothat nature could they uh you give you

(46:39):
give it so that that nature isnot that you know, you know,
we live in the world and soso all those kind of forces to come
by to make that that shallow.That's just assassinating episode to me. Love

(47:00):
that episode. Yeah, it looksyou know, we we did it and
we thought, well, you know, pretty uh straightforward. And then we
started getting calls like their kids saying, you guys are sick, So what
do you what's wrong with you whatwas the latter we have incests show.

(47:21):
They you know, it's like,you know, oh wow, I guess
that that is character. But Iwas, you know, I found it
the cool. But they never actuallyuntil they needed it became such a kind
of controversial show that they ran itwith something out on Halloween. I number

(47:44):
they actually you know, sort ofadvertype it that showed I was never rerun
before, you know, and theydidn't. They didn't rerun that show for
a couple of years, never started. There was a mass we did.
I'm sure Glenn told you. Wedid a Morgan and Wall theme week not
too And one of the girls,her name is Tiffany Deval. She works

(48:04):
with a campaign called x xfn ortrying to get a third X Files movie
mate. She wrote a great synopsisof the episode of Home. I'll send
you the link so you can readit. It's really really good. She's
a huge, huge X Files fanand she loved that episode, so I
have to send it to you soyou can read it. It's really really
good. So I think, becausedo you do you find that that sort

(48:28):
of does that s to sour youto television when you get that sort of
creative Floodgate, especially when, especiallywhen you're actually on a show. I
mean, obviously when you were doingMillennium and you sort of brought up the
idea of the Peacocks is a showwhich has been predominantly about serial killers beforehand
and the worst parts of humanity,you'd think that that was the right sort

(48:50):
of thing for the resume, nodoubt. No, So you know,
it's kind of crazy. I mean, does that you know? I mean
that seems to be obviously a problemmore with television than often seems with filmed.
Do you do you find that doyou do you find that television can
still be frustrating in that stor ofway creatively? Or is there any change
in it because we've seen obviously,I mean, Dexter is quite a dark

(49:10):
idea in itself. Really, yeah, it's very good. I think it's
changed quite a bit. I meanI haven't I haven't worked in college it
truly came. But I'm watching it, you know, and I'm thinking,
oh my god, they could canthey say that first? You know?

(49:31):
Pretty? I mean the image isthat they showed now I remember, uh,
the broad help going through a factthat black eyed graduate Millennium annex file
there's so many things that we couldcut out and we actually out of states
and bother and beyond. It isa lie, a gag. Wang needed

(49:57):
the word testicle and you know,and they wanted to cut it out and
we refuse to cut it out,and they actually cut cut They cut themselves
in the show. Pretty amazing.It was the test of wills and they

(50:21):
get they get it. I'm not, We're not doing it. So you
know that was then and now I'mjust shocked the show and say and then
and then also a mission when youknow a lot of actually I remember there's
such episode. I think they bea bad partner. I think David not

(50:43):
uh that to it. There's athere's a shot where I think it flip
band clutter something like that. Anyway, there's a shot where I think they're
in the gloge or something and jacklinewas poured all the place and they that
might have match and the things thatthat you know, the lads up being

(51:06):
played and they managed cut out thedot were the match uh lacked the match
night by you know when you strikeit again, because that was that was
shoot demost because I guess they feltlike, well we all show how they
actually light a match then maybe kid, do want to know how to Actually

(51:29):
I don't know. Mm hmm.That's the sort of thing that you know
they had, Uh, that wasthe sort of thing they refused to let
the show back. Then we'll flashforward down. You know, Cracy,
clearly I played right. I thinkyou have channels or yeah, channels like

(51:52):
f X and Showtime and HBO.With the series that definitely pushed the envelope.
It's making the uh the regular works, NBC, ABC, CBS start
to rethink, you know, weneed to loosen up a little bit on
what we allow on television because SXis just wow. I co agree.
I think those things, you know, it made the Blackcat that work.

(52:15):
You've got a cat chat, Ilike being left way behind. How how
stringent is it when it comes tofilms? I mean like obviously, I
mean you're had obviously a very biginvolvement with the Final Destination. I mean,
do you do you have any anysort of that sort of fear coming

(52:36):
from studios when it comes to makingfilms? Obviously obviously not to that extent,
but you know we're gladden mate,Willard. Uh, that was the
big you know, I forgot whatthe movie came out. That movie came
out, that was Theft Sets andit's not playing weekend and it had a
peachy It was just by a feware with me. There was a period

(52:58):
where they finally started making our moviesfor teenagers, and he started to go
for the PG thirteen Ratta ailating andwhy you know you But after making File
Destination, they wanted violent. Wellit was right in the first place that
it should be all right, probablydid so. And back then the Black

(53:22):
Chanaley studio thinking, which was thatit didn't matter people, you know,
there was no uh h Peters wereletting teenagers into our movies. It wasn't
so strictly enforced the rules. Andthen I think Columby happened if something I
think it's call him done happened andsuddenly the entire United States said, hey,

(53:49):
violent, they get violent. Youknow we can't. So there's this
big craft down on media viol andI don't know, you remember then friendly
Peterricks started saying, no, youhave to shoop, you know, you
have to be seven. Yeah,they really started forcing those rules and so
I forget what but literally came out, but it was the PG thirteen hard

(54:14):
movie. You know back then whenthey thought of theformation, you made a
horror movie about its gad to anythingless than are people's ballots two yeah,
you you put out you know,so it's too samitars right right anati to
show. So it was actually astigma. The PG. Thirty pole horrible.

(54:35):
So you cut your fast forward toyou, I'll be your best to
happen. The movie comes down Pg. Thirteen wanding that Girls and Deputy type
harm movies. It's really great andGlenn's coming out with Willard and the studios
that we got back at PG.Thirteen. We had to open the art,
you know, open up to theaudi ages and demand is cut all

(55:00):
this spot in Willard to make it, which would have shot at the rated
movie and buildings, cut all thatstuff in order to make it Pg.
Thirteen. Like le Ermie exam thedialogue your tail thirteen movies, you can
only say fuck what they just wantand can't be you know, I want

(55:24):
to fuck you right, yeah,fuck you, but you get that watch
so in that regard, Yeah,depending on what rating they are, the
change just a live what what canshow like Dragon Ball the latter make it

(55:45):
futures nightmare, but uh, theywant to not they don't. They don't
want to PG thirteen, They wantto pe g mm hmmm. They wouldn't
even allow PG thirteen. So Idid cut all this stuff out, but
that would enganger the PG. Uhengage you the PG. So you can,

(56:07):
you know, so ending on whatthe studio want, how they want
to market it, and what theymake it. Hell could, there's a
lot of the stricture that put iton it. I must also be very
frustrating, especially things like dragon Ball, where where you hear, you know,
where there's a big fan base anyway, and inevitably whatever this is you

(56:30):
said before, and then whatever executivesays what I mean just looking at IMDb
now, you know, not wantingto depress you, but one of the
message board things at the end andthe top one is why blame one for
dragon Ball in your profile? Andit's sort of like people automatically go for
the big name and they become thetarget for any problems that occur with the

(56:51):
movie when it doesn't. Yeah,dragon Ball, I mean dragon Ball.
Yeah, you know, I thinkwe spaching you n need. But in
my defense, Fox, I meanmy script for dragon Balls. There's so
much it's so different than the moviethat came out. I mean when you

(57:14):
have the feel they you know,fighting the Yah dragon Ball. You look
at the cartoon, elegant lay basicallyno clue and there's a lot to fight,
you know, a lot of fightingfire, the main emphasis on fighting.

(57:37):
M that's how you know, trainingfighting stuff. And in my script
they had cost out every almost everyfight action fight and then which the words
boring on the side of the cerealsfelt that coming through fighting which should pick

(57:59):
a court the oh you should beyeah, it's boring, so honey.
And the fact that they want tomake it a p movie and the fact
that you know, it's just somany things when it gets it and you
know, it was just a disaster. It was a disaster, and I
feel a really bad for a fanthat loved it that you know, it's

(58:22):
amazing. People really don't know whatgoes on behind the scenes when it comes
to stuff like this. They justthink, write a script and you shoot
it the way you want it.Well, you're lucky for get to shoot
it the way you want it.You know. Yeah, it's very Uh.
I would they with Exceptional file Destinationand and I thought that they should

(58:43):
three uh, you know, yourlife was very very supportive. I like
have that. Yeah, you knowthose movies literally we did jut into that.
We watched it other movies there.It's very difficult to get out of
thinking. Why we consider amount ofpeople who want to tell you what to

(59:07):
do? It is the is theindustry? It is more sympathetic than the
fans in the sense that you know, safe for instance, you have an
issue like dragon Ball, which doesn'tgo down well with you know, with
perhaps the market that they are abedfor, some of the market they're aiming
for, or you know, forwhatever reasons. Is the industry the people
within it? You know obviously you'regetting work from. Are they more sympathetic

(59:30):
to to to failure? You know? Well, I'm not saying it's a
failure. I don't actually know howwell dragon Ball did. But do you
know what I mean? Where whenthings aren't going smoothly, the fans will
point at James Wong or Josh Weedonor whatever, but they won't point anywhere
else. But does the industry alittle more aware of itself? I think
it's what I'm asking should be reallya gat I mean, and I am

(59:51):
not, but they hadn't. Butthey if but the industry don't think the
industry doesn't really care about just right, but the fans so much. They
just care about the box office.So if it's hintyball that they all the
fans hated it and me a lotof money, they wouldn't They wouldn't care

(01:00:14):
all they would they Yeah, Imean so if drank Ball had made a
lot of I wouldn't be affected inany way. But the fact the truth
is that dragon Ball was not adebt and box let the pike it better
Indasia episode out, so it hadit had because yeahs not making it.

(01:00:43):
They don't care about critical It's allabout money. They're afraid of the fan
base. They don't watch it toendanger the fan base that take if you
know, it could ultimately if thatwas the money. I was just wondering,
and I'm I was sort of hopinganyway that the industry, you know,

(01:01:04):
if there is a box office,you know, one that doesn't work
so well at the box office,regardless of what the fans say, that
they can look and see, youknow, who did who who wrote or
who did the screenplay, who directedit, and if they see something like
as complicated as dragon Ball, theywon't actually say, oh god, you
know, that's all Jim Wong's fault, as perhaps the fans would do that,
they would perhaps see that there's obviouslya more complicated, uh situation.

(01:01:30):
I think That's what I'm trying tosay is is that does the industry?
Does the industry? Is the industryas finger pointing when it comes to box
office failures with with with writers anddirectors, Well you know that. I
think I think you do get ridof by it because they, you know,
the nective and not can blame thetrue Oh you know, I'm not

(01:01:54):
bigness that animal. They're playing incular. That's interesting. They're not gonna blame
himself. Oh we gave him allthe leagu way he wanted with Dragon Ball,
we didn't really say anything. Yeah, well we told him to do
what he wanted. Hey, youknow, then then they're gonna say,
oh wow, we fuck that up. Get up. We made him cut

(01:02:16):
forty five minutes from the movie.But that's not our fault. Do you
prefer directing or writing? Jim said, was it fifty to fifty? Or
you like both of them the sameor I like both of them for different
people. H Uh? Writing Ireally. I like because you Pip,

(01:02:36):
you're tied at home and with myfamily. Wow, and that when we're
lighting, I want any anything ispossible. And then directing, you know,
you find that not everything possible mousethe restriction of the the world come
in. Yeah, but that's alsoa challenge at the same time that you

(01:03:00):
know that the puzzled and soul ina different way, and it's exciting in
that way and a direct one witha lot of people. I like that
offso of me, you know,right great in different way. Yeah.

(01:03:21):
Right, the fact that you can'tright by yourself anywhere great, can't time.
It can be really frustratble role totake through it and it's not go
while I take this. Yeah.But and you know when you're collecting,
you with a lot of people andso it's fun, it's social, you're

(01:03:43):
getting treated by its with other people. So that's publically great, but it's
all the pressure too, and you'reyou're very deliberited time and and money just
you know, pouring out every momentthat they work and kind of film and
sons pressure. So yeah, Ithink that both the book, we're gonna

(01:04:06):
say jam on on on that note, it's a little more uplifting than the
depressing state of executives in the inl A and the surrounding entertained industry.
It might be a good good placeto wrap up. It's gone over an
hour. I have to ask youa question, a hypothetical question. If

(01:04:29):
the powers of it it Fox cameto you and said we're interested in you
writing you and Glenn writing a millenniummovie, would you be interested? Well,
see there was any other studio.Yes, that's a good answer.

(01:04:50):
Yeah, we're having our little issuestrying to get in touch with some people
at Fox, but we're still working. Well good luck to you back after
the challenging but yeah, we're findingthat out as well as Lance, who
is uh, who's trying this hardestto get some people to notice what we're

(01:05:12):
trying to do here. So yougot to you've got to really kept this
flame round. Let uh there goothat Uh, there's the the attack and
we're focused on you know, yougot heart. You know we really have
to be we have to be honest. It's Uh. There's a form called

(01:05:34):
this is Who We Are which isrun by a guy by the name of
Graham Smith, and uh, it'spretty much where a lot of us met,
isn't it James? And that's howthat's how we started the ball rolling
with this campaign thing. We prettymuch he has like we call it the
Ultimate Millennium Site. It's just insanethe information that's on this site. I
have to send you the link becauseit's just it's crazy with Steve, this

(01:05:57):
is who we are. Yeah,yeah, I'll send you the sudden your
link and you have to take alook at it because the most comprehensive website
I've ever seen about a television show. Right, it's gonna blow you away
all the information on that site.It is. But that's pretty much where
a bunch of us met in hisforum section, we started talking about,

(01:06:17):
uh, you know, let's notjust sit around and you know, just
talk about it. Let's just dosomething about it. So two years later,
Audible boy and I got it.At the time, it seemed a
bit of a lalla. Two yearslater, here we are still going.

(01:06:38):
Didn't quite think we'd be carrying onlike this, but yeah, you know,
some people were like, uh,uh didn't millennium wasn't millennium over like
twenty years ago? Or are youguys crazy? Or I'm like, you
know it was a fantastic show.There's a lot of really rabid fans for
the show, and and one ofthe things we'd like to let the people
know who worked on the show isthat your work was appreciated, is appreciated.

(01:07:01):
We love that if if Nate's beenyou know, fifteen, just that
little thing, I think that you'vegone and I appreciate it. Thank you,
You're welcome and thank you, thankyou, thank you. Yes,
I mean, as I said inthe in the rather from an intro,
that it was a surprise to getboth you, both yourself and Glenn to

(01:07:24):
talk to us as y're not becausewe thought that you would hate us,
but just because you'd obviously been busyand you were doing other things these days.
So it's been great to actually geta bit of feedback from your time,
especially because without you two saying anything, it's meant there's been a lot
of fans. I think you havedecided to speak on your behalf as such.
So it's nice to actually have youable to come out and just sort

(01:07:45):
of explain your you know, howit went for you, and I think
that's important. It's good for thehistory books. All right. Well,
thank you, Gay and we're backfor the second time since I screwed up
the first tempt at saying we're back. I hope you all enjoyed it.
Do you enjoy it? Try?It was a good interview that was a
while ago. Yeah, I thinkone of the cool things that I that

(01:08:08):
I really liked. I'm a bigfan of Dexter, so to find out
that they were approached originally to rateDexter was like a big, big thing
to me. That would have beenawesome. I love that show. I
mean, as we said before,what's nice as well is that, you
know, we obviously consider James andGlenn's almost synonymous. That you like together
in the mind of Millennium fans isalways Glen Morgan and James Wall, But

(01:08:30):
when you actually speak to them individually, they give very different perspectives and they're
a very different approach to talking aboutMillennium and their associated stuff. So yeah,
that makes it good. It's notlike a Glen Morgan interview mark too,
it's a James Wall interview Mark.Yeah, so we like Again,
we hope you guys enjoyed that.Be on the lookout very soon for the

(01:08:50):
back to fright Black iPhone app Well, we'll post something obviously let you know
when it's official, but you know, stay tuned for that. That's gonna
be cool and be very cool.And we have we still got Tom Wright
to come up with a Wait,that's another very good podcast. That was
a great fun talking to him.So please look that we've got Tim right.
We also have Jeff Yeger in thecare Yes, Jeff as well.

(01:09:13):
There is wonderful. He is greatso little tales well worth listening to him.
Yeah, and definitely make sure yougo to the blog as always.
The back to Frank Black Facebook pageand also the new official Lance Henderson Facebook
page is now I've been running.Yes, yes, then it is the
official one. I know some peopleget very tentative about whether these things are

(01:09:38):
official, but it is official,and we done our best to make sure
that you know that everyone's aware isofficial. I mean he's even spoken on
it, hasn't he This anslipt fromhim and everything there is from him.
So do go and go and supporthim because he's looking to touch the fans
through the official Lance Henrickson one.And also I know you guys are waiting

(01:09:58):
patiently, but we will be announcingthe winners of the Millennium movie poster contest.
We want to do a very specialannouncement, so hopefully we'll have that
done here in a week or so. And do you think special diver Cabaseas
he said, it's just taking usa little longer than we hoped to what
we do know who the winners are. Yes, yes, yes, it's
all sorted. It's all in thecan and prizes of deal with. So
it's all done. It's just alittle bit of a we want to do

(01:10:20):
something special. Yeah, we wantsome of the specially announced the winners,
just hold on just a little bitlonger. And we can also say you
that we have some very very coolprojects coming up. Again, I know
you guys are tired of us saying, oh, yeah, they have something
to come up, but they won'ttell us. We can't tell you.
We want to, but we can't. But trust me, there are some

(01:10:42):
very cool, cool projects we havecoming up. Yep, some very cool
projects. Yeah, and I hope, I know. I know sometimes they
don't know it's come to fruition,but these are coming to fruition, I
think, so, you know.I mean, it's just a nature of
doing these sort of things sometimes.I know we will say that it's cool
things coming up, and then suddenlywe don't talk about it really again,
like obviously that we'll be honest aboutthis, like the writing thing we mentioned

(01:11:05):
in February, but still saying thatwe're still talking about writing. It's still
it's still on the back burner.Don't still the back burner. It's not
ignored or just it's just some things, you know, they take, they
evolve, and some I'll go onas you say, the back burner.
Yeah, we appreciate you guys hangingin there with us. Like I said,
there's a lot to look forward to. We have that coming up,

(01:11:26):
so yeah, I think that's important, just very quickly to say that.
It's just that, I mean,each year we do this, I mean,
now this is really our third year. In a way, we look
back and we always say, God, how are we going to top the
next year? And I felt atthe beginning of this year. But we
have got stuff which is even closerthan we were before. And I think
that's important, especially at this timewhere people start thinking, oh God,

(01:11:46):
it's never going to happen. Butthings are far closer than they ever have
been. So don't give up onthat. I mean we've got. We're
the people who we've got involved inthis now are far bigger and far more
in it than ever has been before. The chances are increasing by that involvement
if nothing else, so stick withus is not a dream, it's something

(01:12:08):
that's worth fighting for. And withthat being said, we want to thank
you for tuning in and stay tunedfor our next episode and hopefully the iPhone
out. Yes, yes, I'mexcited to see what. No. No,
no, I'm not excited. Ihaven't got an iPhone that would help?
That would help. Yes, I'mwith your rivals all right, See

(01:12:30):
you guys next time. If youwould like to join the back to Frank
Black campaign or have any questions orcomments, go to back to frank Black
dot com or contact us at infoat back to frank Black dot com.
Remember we are all shepherds