May 2, 2023 • 26 mins
We start minute 112 with more crashing and ends with a dedication to Thade.
The “Planet of the Apes” is kicked off in only the way Tim Burton can kick off a franchise, by adding Dirk Diggler to the world of apes!
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http://moviesbyminutes.com/
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“Antibody” by Chris Williams (shorturl.at/ctNY4)
The “Planet of the Apes” is kicked off in only the way Tim Burton can kick off a franchise, by adding Dirk Diggler to the world of apes!
Facebook @MinuteOfTheApes
Twitter @MinuteOfTheApes (Shows post but no interaction here because Elon Musk sucks)
Email: podcast@minuteoftheapes.com
Website: https://www.minuteoftheapes.com/
http://moviesbyminutes.com/
https://www.zeuscomics.com/
http://divebarboombox.com/
“Antibody” by Chris Williams (shorturl.at/ctNY4)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Bunch. Today's Minute of the Apes. Oh shit, y'all, it's Ape
Lincoln drinking hello and welcome to Mindof the Apes, the daily podcast where
(00:49):
we break down every minute of theplenty of the eight movies, one minute
at a time. I'm todd thatwas Richard off the top with the beautiful
Ape pun and Sean sitting silently,which I do believe maybe the first time
I've ever said that about Sean.I'm add We're into it, I talked,
So here we are at minute onetwelve. Do we have any housekeeping
needs to happen? Or can wejump right into this very very something moment?
(01:14):
I don't know. I was goingto call it juicy, but at
the same time penultimate, well,I mean not including CREDI credidit my penultimate
CREDI mins not including credits actually ultimate. By the way, you were searching
for domain names, I think youneed to go search that. You can
get that too, and we canlink all benut of the apes back to
the Dirty Desktops is available to anybodyelse registered Dirty Desktops. I know have
(01:40):
to look up crediments. I wentto the bank this week and they wouldn't
give me alone I had bad CREDImins there it is is also available,
all right. Letn't know if there'sa type of incrediments. No, nope,
nope, it all right, Sominute one twelve, Sean tell us
what's going on? All right,We're gonna start at minute one twelve with
more crashing and then with a dedicationto Thede. Harry come minute one twelve,
(02:02):
Tim Burton, Marky Mark and Thedeon the credit minute of the Apes.
(03:12):
As a minute one twelve, wehave a no brons worth of apes
and humans to displace, pods worthof humans and apes, so many wild
humans and apes that he minco ofgrillas and a piece among humans and apes.
Visually we see and so the capsuleis. Leo braces for impact,
smashes into the reflecting pond. Someparticles fly forward to the lens. Then
the pod goes tumbling, tumbling,tumbling up the steps of what we know
(03:34):
as the Lincoln Memorial. We lingeron the outside of the pod for a
long time as a shit ton ofsparks go off inside and Leo's not burned
yet. Then, as it explodesout and shoots the front glass area the
pot away, Leo emerges and it'sstill sparkling inside. He is very bloodied.
Now I think, okay, sohe's head a crash. I can
understand the bloody. Now he startsstammering up the steps. Everything is conveniently
(03:59):
backlit so that we see all thesmoke. We then go to and over
the shoulder of what we would thinkis the Lincoln Memorial in the exact same
but camera movement as we get inthe first film, except that it's going
right to left instead of left orright. But it is the same thing.
And as we see it, wesee the Washington Memorial off in the
(04:19):
distance. We see this side ofwhat looks like Lincoln, and they did
a great job with at least fromthe back, making that still look like
Lincoln. So it comes across Leahlooks up and then but bomb, and
we get the any percussionist who heardit that gone? You're warming it up,
(04:39):
you do this to get it going, and then you slide something metallic
across it, so it goes.It is the biggest trope in the whole
world that you know somebody has justgiving you something. Oh, oh my
god. And that's when we seeFade Fade sitting there. Now, let's
talk before we get We'll get tothe point that the sculpt of that statue
(05:00):
beautiful. They did a great job. If you're going to evoke Lincoln and
put him within it, there area lot of great things right there.
It does an axial cut where wejump right in on the same axis.
She had a tighter shot of hisface. It then pans up and I'm
going to read these words. Weget a shot that says, in this
temple, as in the hearts ofthe Apes, for whom he saved the
planet, whom he saved the planet, the memory of General Thade is enshrined
(05:26):
forever. So the memory of himis enshrined forever. And that is basically
it for this episode. So wecan start with the crash landing. Sean,
you had something you wanted to sayabout the landing gear quick, okay,
yeah, it said in the previousminute that there was a malfunctioned with
the landing gear. It's on thescreen itself. But if you notice when
(05:49):
he crashes at like seven minutes orseven seconds in the landing gear works just
perfectly enough, so it'll prop upthe front so that it can pop off
and you can see when though gearcome out and say and now boom,
landing gear works. And then thatfront dome it's so weightless when it pops
(06:10):
off and spins around and falls down. I want a dome that has weight
to protect me from the rigors ofouter space. That just looks like a
pizza plastic That is he even alive? How's he alive after that crash?
And then within the sparks and saidthat as fire, Yeah, the smoke
in there, he should he's notsuffering. Yeah, at least get out
(06:30):
and be putting up fires on yourclothes and shit, it's just like okay.
And also it's a really bad compositeof him crashing in the water,
and the water it kind of remindsme of have you seen the clip of
Air Force one where the Air Forcethe actual plane crashes into the water and
it looks so horrible. No,oh my god. Well, we have
(06:51):
to remember this is also pre modernspecial effects. They were probably right on
the precipice of being able to goover to much more computer generated imagery,
and so you still had those compositivetype of things. That's how bad that
is. That that's what the crashreminded me of. Yeah, that that
bad compositing. I mean they're well, yeah, I mean, look that
(07:14):
that's what looked like right there,but that's flipping over the airplane. That's
how it looked to me, crashingand bad Waterson. I don't know why
the crash had to be so dramatic, No, why he did, why
it just the only thing I canthink is they're trying to ruin the ship
so they can't use it again forpotential future movie. So he's trapped here
on this earth lord. You knowagain, Leo doesn't know how to fly.
(07:36):
Just ending wrote them into. Thisis one of those This is one
of those things where and Daredevil wouldn'tBen dis finished his run, he dropped
it off for and you're in prisonand now somebody else gotta figure it out.
And then who who was Edward Bicker? Yeah, and Edward did the
exact same thing at the end ofhis I'm gonna drop us here, and
then the rider after that, whowas Andy Diggle had to come and figure
(07:56):
how to get him out of that. Yeah, this great. This ending
is one of those things like hereyou go figure this one out. Well,
well, let's let's finish noticing detailsin the minute and then I think
at the end, let's talk aboutwhat this minute does, not only for
the end of this film, butwhat they're obviously trying to set up,
because you're absolutely right, it isvery much up here. You go.
(08:18):
What are you doing with us now? And especially so the moment at about
thirty six seconds when we get theactual reveal of Fade sitting upon that chair.
I didn't know a state at first. I was I'm glad to put
the words up there that you're you'reright. But at the same time,
I think that the sculpture itself isvery well done, with that foot forward
the way it is. Well,let's let's step back to a second.
(08:39):
You crash. Why do you gointo the Lincoln Memorial at all to begin?
Why do you not walk down,sit down, compose yourself? You
crash, get out of the pod. Oh the first thing I'm gonna do
go sight seeing. No, you'regonna sit down, compose yourself. Why
is there nobody at at in Washington, DC, at the Lincoln Memorial at
(09:01):
all? He crashes and there isnobody? Is its emptiness? What's going
on here? Also? Is Iknow what's going on here? They're setting
up for the next minute. Andif it's bullshit, and if this is
that Thede has come along and changedEarth, how did he go into pass
well? And then also why isit called Washington, d C. At
that point he would there would havebeen no Washington. This is so convenient
(09:24):
that they're they're evoking the Washington Memorial, the Lincoln Memorial and these things that
he would he would have erected hisown. Yeah, it would. You're
trying so fucking hard for the statueof liberty moment that you're saying, Oh,
he comes and he just changes everythingand he puts himself on that chick.
How this going to pass too?He would have to not go into
(09:46):
now like where where Davidson is,He'd have to go into hundreds of years
ago, if not thousands of yearsago too. But let's also the elephant
in the room, is we theewe left the He was locked in that
fucking command capsule. He somehow somehowgot into another escape pod and got ahead
(10:07):
of Leo so he wouldn't even faster, and went back further and got to
Earth and changed Earth's entire history andapparently has died because this is in the
memory of memory and he does sayplanet. It does say planet. He
saved the planet. Now again,the last time stamp we had from Leo
and the rocketship is twenty one sixtyeight, So they just only has to
(10:28):
go back two y. I meanthe human race can't exist at this particular
point. I don't, right,he just has to go back before.
He just has to go back afterLeo takes off. But then he has
one hundred and sixty eight years.I don't know. I'm just saying,
I'm saying, no, Richard,you're explaining all this, explained it all.
(10:50):
He has a heart. He hasto go back in time with apes,
with apes, with apes and arrivesomewhere between when Leo leaves in two
thousand, in two thousand and oneand no what Leo left in twenty twenty
two knows. There's there's at leastabout one hundred year period that Thede could
have come back and conquered the planet. Yeah, but he's got to now,
(11:11):
Okay, we talk about a sequel. It could have been interesting to
explain how they got out, howthey got there, and how did he
go to the zoos and somehow youknow, lead yeah, and teach them
how to be intelligent. He wouldhave to like bring the entire planet that
he's on now back to Earth.Maybe he learned how to launch the that's
(11:33):
what I'm saying. He learned howto launch the obrauts something. But I
mean, that's a possibility. Hepossibility. It was so crash he learned,
but we don't know how. Imean the The only other thing that
I have a problem with is thefact that theyde Thede's entire species would have
to have a technological advanced, crazytechnological advancement in order to get the Oberon
(11:54):
going, get it going, goback in time. They can't get the
conquer planet. If you remember,Davidson uses all the fuel on that one
glass, so there's no fuel.He had jumper cables. I could give
you that theyde travels back in timeand conquers the Earth. I could and
does it in between one hundred andsixty eight years between Leo and where he
comes across now, and then heremakes the Lincoln Memorial to look like himself
(12:18):
because that's what he wants because he'snow that he conquers the planet, he
comes with apes, who are thepeople we then see or the Ape presidency
or anyway, Um, I justdon't understand how they would make such a
technological jumps make that. That's theonly thing I haven't read. And apparently
though, they completely have the worstpoets or whatever to inscribe their their memorials,
(12:41):
because this is actually what is writtenon the Lincoln memorial. Is it
really in this temple as in theHearts of the People for whom he saved
the Union? The memory of AbrahamLincoln? Somehow that reads better. I
think, I don't know why that'sin this temple as in the Hearts of
the Apes, for whom he savedthe planet. I think that's where it
jumps, and it's like, thisdoesn't the apes, So he saved the
(13:03):
planet from what? How did hesave the planet for for in this temple?
Is in the hearts of the Apesfor whom he freed? That would
have made sense. That kind oftold me something. But he saved the
planet. I look at that andI'm like, they're just trying to ape
the save the Union. They are, but it's too much. And again
that's where I'm jumping to this ideathat they conquered them. What would have
(13:24):
been interesting he saved it from humansthat's why I'm thinking, that's why they're
there, the planet as opposed toan evolutionary thing that we're supposed to somehow
plausibly think that a time Washington buthere doing have made better in your theory
is if you saw a broken offhead of Abraham Lincoln on the bottom and
you agree with that, and yousaw like crossed out and then rechiseled,
(13:46):
you know, instead of Union,you saw planet instead of Lincoln, you
saw thede so that you saw maybethey know that Actually, actually I like
that other than just kind of droppingit here. Maybe it's something they would
have explored in the second second filmor when they were doing here that that
actually happened. But yeah, thatwould have been a lot more dramatic to
see that moment instead where we're leftwith this on our minds are having to
(14:09):
tumble through why that's the problem.So here's the simplicity of the first film
is it's Earth future. Yeah,and we but even the things that we
see and we get are very quicklyyou go, oh shit, you can
imagine what happened, right You seethe decimated vision of the Statue of Liberty.
(14:30):
It is now somehow landlocked. Itis not not an island in the
middle of the water beach. Youhave completely changed the topography of everything about
this planet, and here it is. And when he says you did it,
that's also you're you're living in thetime when people were paranoid about those
kind of astractions. You're right,of these kind of things with the atomic
race and all this that makes sense. This has there's almost no sensical way
(14:56):
you can explain what has happened,because again weep the last time we left
that he's locked in a capsule,and we've established they were not on Earth
at all, right, and sohow did they get from that capsule to
this place in enough time to completelyeradicate and change the history of yet somehow
keep it's eerily similar to that ofmankind. It is just a fucking mess.
(15:18):
I will say, see the pictureof Lincoln there, Yeah, picture
of Lincoln there. I do likehow they kept it very similar, especially
the bare foot that's it, Andthat's I've said that before too. I
was like, I think that it'sa great it's a great visual avocation of
that statue that you look at itand it's it's very spot on. But
(15:41):
it's too spot on. If whenwas the memorial erected. It's a really
it's a really interesting idea, itis, but it's not thought through.
But it's not thought through. It'sthe we're going for the shock of viter.
That's just glear nscope walk around theright. The groundbreaking was February twelfth,
(16:02):
nineteen fourteen, fourteen, so hehad to come back prior to nineteen
fourteen, so that at least,Okay, that's great, that's one hundred
years. But I'm saying I'm sayingLeo had to take off in two thousand.
So either he changed went back andLeo's now an anomaly from nineteen fourteen.
I got you, yeah, orhe came back after Leo had taken
(16:22):
off and change time changel and it'sthere are too many questions. There's no
answer too, because they didn't makean answer. They just wanted to say,
here's our twist. Now. Thisis something I looked up and we
may talk about a little more inthe credit minutes. But I tried to
find critical consensus, audience consensus,and a lot of the things that kept
(16:44):
coming back was the twist was atwist for twist's sake, and Tim Burton
said, Look, it's a timetravel movie. It is supposed to you're
not supposed to entirely understand it.My problem with that is is that probably
please disagree with me if you canthink of something. But potentially one of
the best time travel films or seriesof films are the back to Future films.
(17:07):
Though they have plotholes and you canpoint out it part to it,
but it does explain itself and youunderstand because it is about time travel from
the very beginning. This film isnot about time travel at the very beginning.
It is about exploration, saving anape, going to a planet where
it's all intelligent apes, and thensuddenly it becomes this wonky time travel shit
(17:30):
that that's why it doesn't work.You've not explained to me how and why
this is happening. We never explained. I told you in the script it
talked about the cloud that was causingblackouts on Earth. We've never explained any
of that. They dropped it completelyright, and again, had they prefaced
it with something like some anomalous force, right, you know that was a
mystical effecting Earth could help us explainsome of this here. I know I've
(17:53):
told this story before, but Beforethis came out, Kevin Smith had written
a common book, a Clerk's comicbook that took place between clerks and and
uh, Dogma, I think andDogma one of I can't remember which one
of the movies, but they endup within a Rang and Tang and they're
running around with a ring and tangand this is like how they met it.
(18:14):
And then part of the movie theydo a plan of the apes Riff,
I mean part of the comic bookthey do a plan of the h
Riff and they go to the LincolnMemorial and it's a ape there instead and
all this stuff. And then thismovie comes out and they have the Lincoln
Memorial and ape there, and KevinSmith said, you know, it's I
can't believe that Tim Burton did this, and it's like he's ripping off my
comic. And then somebody went overto Tim Burton said Kevin Smith said,
(18:38):
you're like you're ripping off his comicputting this inning in there. He goes,
well, you know, I didn'tread Kevin Smith comics. I don't
read comics. And then Kevin Smithreplied that I know you don't read comics.
I saw Batman. Oh um,let's they get like, you know,
we're kind of left trying to explainwhy Ape Lincoln exists, typically fade,
(19:00):
how they would do this, howthe planet would transform. Where we're
not in an era where the movieaudiences can understand multiple dimensions. We're not
at that point now where it canyou know, just kind of allowed us
to do that now. And thisis a birth. This is the birth
of the internet when this comes out. So it's not like you're going to
IMDb or a form and discussing thiswith other people. I just remember seeing
(19:26):
it in the theater and at theend of it. It Initially I was
excited. I thought, Okay,that's cool, but I remember I can
remember almost the moment of walking outinto that that that that area just beyond
the concession standing you're talking to friends, and my mind starts going, what
(19:47):
how? How you have to beas the filmmaker, the person that's asking
that question, you have to lookat this and go but how And if
you've not done something, all theyhave to do is to your point,
that cloud could have been We've sentChinese weather balloons into it and they they
vanished, and they show up ayear later and showing no signs of deterioration
(20:08):
or something like that that says thatNebula is a time travel port. And
we see we see that, wesee the Bermuda Trial of the Nebula.
As he travels through we see somethingusual, but make that your mystery.
At the first of the films tomake it, we see a cow flaning
in space and there's a which funthere. You go, no, no,
no, no, but the Ithink you know he's uh, Burton's
(20:30):
probably trying to go for how doI put an ape image on something known
to the public, like what otherI just find it so funny that the
one thing that they glean on wherethey're trying to ape on the original is
to have this twist that somehow theapes and the earth surprise he didn't have
him crash in New York City andthen just over his shoulder you see the
(20:52):
statue Libertian's got an ape face instead. That would have I would have actually
done like that better. They mighthave thought that was too close. I
mean, but he crash lands inEurope. It's a sphinx with an ape
face. Yeah. Man, let'slet's let's I wish we had the budget
to actually create all these alternate endingsand pump pump, But I'm trying to
imagine what what if he lands inGreece and the museum and it's the statue
(21:12):
of David with an ape face andhe finds the Mona Lisa and it's an
ape face. It's ari. Imean, that's basically what he's trying to
figure out. He's trying to figureout, how can I take the statue
of liberty and iconic imagery? Whatis a big national monument that we have,
and then how do I personify that? And this makes the most sense.
It's where, Okay, Sean maybe able to find a plot hole
(21:33):
in these new films, but atleast the new films said, let's let's
be very respectful of these films,but let's forge your own path. And
there will be moments and I thinkpotentially in the first one is a little
more ham fisted when it comes tosome of the hrod nods to the original
films. Yeah, and they getaway from that a little bit as it
goes on. Yeah, but it'snever this. I will at least assure
(21:55):
you and I will not spoil asingle fucking thing for you about these Richard,
because Richard is the one who's notseen any of them. It is
never this there's even though you maygo, oh there it is, you
will never have the Ape Lincoln moment. I guarantee you that. Yeah,
And I think that's where this onegoes really a straight. As they were,
they're trying both so hard to avoidretelling that story, yet also trying
(22:21):
so hard to to somehow evoke thefeelings and the thoughts that we have from
it. And you can't do it. You can't. You can't mix this
without setting it up. And it'sjust this Ape Lincoln is the perfect name
for it. It is. Itis the worst moment of this film in
mynd people. And it's it's noteven it's not even that we're at this
touch of the sorry the link memorialand it's an ape face. It's the
fact that it's also specifically fade fadeand just you know, yeah, we
(22:48):
needed that moment, you know,the cliff fingers, the villain still alive,
or you know, if they putlike Cornelius or Caesar or somebody else's
name on there would have been sothat would have been fascinating. I would
have loved you go wait who isthis it? They were going so hard
to avoid a name some original films, to throw an original name film,
and here'd be fantastic. Let's goback to your idea with the MCU giving
(23:11):
us multiple dimensions and whatnot. Iwould have rather that Leo took that pod
blasted off from the planet and there'sthe Obern. Oh my god, it's
safe. And he lands on Obronand he's running the fucking Obrin that I
could have almost bought, because thensomehow he got the Obern off and you
know, and that's when he safelylands on the space station that's hovering over
something. It's not the Obern,it's a different place. Yeah, And
(23:32):
all of a sudden he gets in. He realizes that the nurses that are
taking care from all apes. Yeah, that'd be freaky. I mean that
that but that seems more plausible.But again, you're trying to evoke,
trying to avoid the original film asmuch as possible while putting something iconic.
We are running from the original film. Yeah, we're trying to make the
original film. Yeah, we areconcluding reference, not just a reference.
(23:52):
Are concluding reference. I think thatwe've all dreaded this moment and I think
when you get to it, andespecially if you're going to look critically at
it, it is so it leftfield doesn't even constitute where this comes from.
It I don't know where the fuckit comes from. I think I
remember walking out of the theater andI remember said I didn't think it was
that bad when I watched it originally. I think I remember walking to go,
(24:14):
huh okay, Yeah. I thinkI was going with it because I
thought, so too cool, that'sinteresting. And then I just dropped it
like it was popcorn film. Ijust let it go. I didn't actually
like digest what it actually happened.But I'm trying to remember I had a
conversation with friends about what happened.Because it's been a while, so you
can have popcorn films. Star Warsis a popcorn film, the original New
Hope, but it still had somethingto say, you know, trusting yourself
(24:37):
and not in technology. What thefuck is this film about? I mean,
if we're if we're referencing it,was it guns. We're talking about
guns, We're talking about religion,we're talking we're talk talking about politics,
we're talking about slavery. I meanthat maybe that's the callback here maybe,
but I just don't think that,you know, the slave Okay, if
(25:00):
you're going to put Ape Lincoln here, it would have been interesting to really
push the idea of slavery more withinthe planet so that these two would tie
together. Right they don't, Butthey don't. They didn't do enough with
that. In fact, again,all the humans are very clean, treated,
you know, as house servants morethan zos and everything. They can
speak, they can talk, andthey have families. And when we last
(25:21):
left, Lee left the planet.They're all getting exactly I mean, the
first movie had a message. Ithad a you know, Rod Serving writing
a script for it, so youcan't go wrong with it. Not saying
they weren't trying to make money.Obviously they were trying to make money.
That's what you do with a movie, but this one just felt like they
were going, hey, we havea title and we can get money off
(25:44):
that, and we can get goodmakeup, modern day makeup. Yeahs.
Anybody google to see what some ofthe other previously attached people wanted to.
I've been trying to get Ai todo Mona Lisa as an ape, and
that's the closest I can get.There's Apelisa Mona least, it doesn't look
that far from the Apish look asa point. So I think that that's
pretty much gets us to the endof that. We've got one more minute
(26:07):
of action, if I'm correct,correct before this is our last minute of
action. So let's do this,Let's wrap this up. Let's come in
and go out tomorrow and see whatwe can figure out and see if it
makes itself any more clear. Allright, all right, So for Richard
Sean, I am Todd. We'releaving Ape Lincoln in the past, and
everyone have a great day. Byebye, everybody.
Bunch. Today's Minute of the Apes. Oh shit, y'all, it's Ape
Lincoln drinking hello and welcome to Mindof the Apes, the daily podcast where
(00:49):
we break down every minute of theplenty of the eight movies, one minute
at a time. I'm todd thatwas Richard off the top with the beautiful
Ape pun and Sean sitting silently,which I do believe maybe the first time
I've ever said that about Sean.I'm add We're into it, I talked,
So here we are at minute onetwelve. Do we have any housekeeping
needs to happen? Or can wejump right into this very very something moment?
(01:14):
I don't know. I was goingto call it juicy, but at
the same time penultimate, well,I mean not including CREDI credidit my penultimate
CREDI mins not including credits actually ultimate. By the way, you were searching
for domain names, I think youneed to go search that. You can
get that too, and we canlink all benut of the apes back to
the Dirty Desktops is available to anybodyelse registered Dirty Desktops. I know have
(01:40):
to look up crediments. I wentto the bank this week and they wouldn't
give me alone I had bad CREDImins there it is is also available,
all right. Letn't know if there'sa type of incrediments. No, nope,
nope, it all right, Sominute one twelve, Sean tell us
what's going on? All right,We're gonna start at minute one twelve with
more crashing and then with a dedicationto Thede. Harry come minute one twelve,
(02:02):
Tim Burton, Marky Mark and Thedeon the credit minute of the Apes.
(03:12):
As a minute one twelve, wehave a no brons worth of apes
and humans to displace, pods worthof humans and apes, so many wild
humans and apes that he minco ofgrillas and a piece among humans and apes.
Visually we see and so the capsuleis. Leo braces for impact,
smashes into the reflecting pond. Someparticles fly forward to the lens. Then
the pod goes tumbling, tumbling,tumbling up the steps of what we know
(03:34):
as the Lincoln Memorial. We lingeron the outside of the pod for a
long time as a shit ton ofsparks go off inside and Leo's not burned
yet. Then, as it explodesout and shoots the front glass area the
pot away, Leo emerges and it'sstill sparkling inside. He is very bloodied.
Now I think, okay, sohe's head a crash. I can
understand the bloody. Now he startsstammering up the steps. Everything is conveniently
(03:59):
backlit so that we see all thesmoke. We then go to and over
the shoulder of what we would thinkis the Lincoln Memorial in the exact same
but camera movement as we get inthe first film, except that it's going
right to left instead of left orright. But it is the same thing.
And as we see it, wesee the Washington Memorial off in the
(04:19):
distance. We see this side ofwhat looks like Lincoln, and they did
a great job with at least fromthe back, making that still look like
Lincoln. So it comes across Leahlooks up and then but bomb, and
we get the any percussionist who heardit that gone? You're warming it up,
(04:39):
you do this to get it going, and then you slide something metallic
across it, so it goes.It is the biggest trope in the whole
world that you know somebody has justgiving you something. Oh, oh my
god. And that's when we seeFade Fade sitting there. Now, let's
talk before we get We'll get tothe point that the sculpt of that statue
(05:00):
beautiful. They did a great job. If you're going to evoke Lincoln and
put him within it, there area lot of great things right there.
It does an axial cut where wejump right in on the same axis.
She had a tighter shot of hisface. It then pans up and I'm
going to read these words. Weget a shot that says, in this
temple, as in the hearts ofthe Apes, for whom he saved the
planet, whom he saved the planet, the memory of General Thade is enshrined
(05:26):
forever. So the memory of himis enshrined forever. And that is basically
it for this episode. So wecan start with the crash landing. Sean,
you had something you wanted to sayabout the landing gear quick, okay,
yeah, it said in the previousminute that there was a malfunctioned with
the landing gear. It's on thescreen itself. But if you notice when
(05:49):
he crashes at like seven minutes orseven seconds in the landing gear works just
perfectly enough, so it'll prop upthe front so that it can pop off
and you can see when though gearcome out and say and now boom,
landing gear works. And then thatfront dome it's so weightless when it pops
(06:10):
off and spins around and falls down. I want a dome that has weight
to protect me from the rigors ofouter space. That just looks like a
pizza plastic That is he even alive? How's he alive after that crash?
And then within the sparks and saidthat as fire, Yeah, the smoke
in there, he should he's notsuffering. Yeah, at least get out
(06:30):
and be putting up fires on yourclothes and shit, it's just like okay.
And also it's a really bad compositeof him crashing in the water,
and the water it kind of remindsme of have you seen the clip of
Air Force one where the Air Forcethe actual plane crashes into the water and
it looks so horrible. No,oh my god. Well, we have
(06:51):
to remember this is also pre modernspecial effects. They were probably right on
the precipice of being able to goover to much more computer generated imagery,
and so you still had those compositivetype of things. That's how bad that
is. That that's what the crashreminded me of. Yeah, that that
bad compositing. I mean they're well, yeah, I mean, look that
(07:14):
that's what looked like right there,but that's flipping over the airplane. That's
how it looked to me, crashingand bad Waterson. I don't know why
the crash had to be so dramatic, No, why he did, why
it just the only thing I canthink is they're trying to ruin the ship
so they can't use it again forpotential future movie. So he's trapped here
on this earth lord. You knowagain, Leo doesn't know how to fly.
(07:36):
Just ending wrote them into. Thisis one of those This is one
of those things where and Daredevil wouldn'tBen dis finished his run, he dropped
it off for and you're in prisonand now somebody else gotta figure it out.
And then who who was Edward Bicker? Yeah, and Edward did the
exact same thing at the end ofhis I'm gonna drop us here, and
then the rider after that, whowas Andy Diggle had to come and figure
(07:56):
how to get him out of that. Yeah, this great. This ending
is one of those things like hereyou go figure this one out. Well,
well, let's let's finish noticing detailsin the minute and then I think
at the end, let's talk aboutwhat this minute does, not only for
the end of this film, butwhat they're obviously trying to set up,
because you're absolutely right, it isvery much up here. You go.
(08:18):
What are you doing with us now? And especially so the moment at about
thirty six seconds when we get theactual reveal of Fade sitting upon that chair.
I didn't know a state at first. I was I'm glad to put
the words up there that you're you'reright. But at the same time,
I think that the sculpture itself isvery well done, with that foot forward
the way it is. Well,let's let's step back to a second.
(08:39):
You crash. Why do you gointo the Lincoln Memorial at all to begin?
Why do you not walk down,sit down, compose yourself? You
crash, get out of the pod. Oh the first thing I'm gonna do
go sight seeing. No, you'regonna sit down, compose yourself. Why
is there nobody at at in Washington, DC, at the Lincoln Memorial at
(09:01):
all? He crashes and there isnobody? Is its emptiness? What's going
on here? Also? Is Iknow what's going on here? They're setting
up for the next minute. Andif it's bullshit, and if this is
that Thede has come along and changedEarth, how did he go into pass
well? And then also why isit called Washington, d C. At
that point he would there would havebeen no Washington. This is so convenient
(09:24):
that they're they're evoking the Washington Memorial, the Lincoln Memorial and these things that
he would he would have erected hisown. Yeah, it would. You're
trying so fucking hard for the statueof liberty moment that you're saying, Oh,
he comes and he just changes everythingand he puts himself on that chick.
How this going to pass too?He would have to not go into
(09:46):
now like where where Davidson is,He'd have to go into hundreds of years
ago, if not thousands of yearsago too. But let's also the elephant
in the room, is we theewe left the He was locked in that
fucking command capsule. He somehow somehowgot into another escape pod and got ahead
(10:07):
of Leo so he wouldn't even faster, and went back further and got to
Earth and changed Earth's entire history andapparently has died because this is in the
memory of memory and he does sayplanet. It does say planet. He
saved the planet. Now again,the last time stamp we had from Leo
and the rocketship is twenty one sixtyeight, So they just only has to
(10:28):
go back two y. I meanthe human race can't exist at this particular
point. I don't, right,he just has to go back before.
He just has to go back afterLeo takes off. But then he has
one hundred and sixty eight years.I don't know. I'm just saying,
I'm saying, no, Richard,you're explaining all this, explained it all.
(10:50):
He has a heart. He hasto go back in time with apes,
with apes, with apes and arrivesomewhere between when Leo leaves in two
thousand, in two thousand and oneand no what Leo left in twenty twenty
two knows. There's there's at leastabout one hundred year period that Thede could
have come back and conquered the planet. Yeah, but he's got to now,
(11:11):
Okay, we talk about a sequel. It could have been interesting to
explain how they got out, howthey got there, and how did he
go to the zoos and somehow youknow, lead yeah, and teach them
how to be intelligent. He wouldhave to like bring the entire planet that
he's on now back to Earth.Maybe he learned how to launch the that's
(11:33):
what I'm saying. He learned howto launch the obrauts something. But I
mean, that's a possibility. Hepossibility. It was so crash he learned,
but we don't know how. Imean the The only other thing that
I have a problem with is thefact that theyde Thede's entire species would have
to have a technological advanced, crazytechnological advancement in order to get the Oberon
(11:54):
going, get it going, goback in time. They can't get the
conquer planet. If you remember,Davidson uses all the fuel on that one
glass, so there's no fuel.He had jumper cables. I could give
you that theyde travels back in timeand conquers the Earth. I could and
does it in between one hundred andsixty eight years between Leo and where he
comes across now, and then heremakes the Lincoln Memorial to look like himself
(12:18):
because that's what he wants because he'snow that he conquers the planet, he
comes with apes, who are thepeople we then see or the Ape presidency
or anyway, Um, I justdon't understand how they would make such a
technological jumps make that. That's theonly thing I haven't read. And apparently
though, they completely have the worstpoets or whatever to inscribe their their memorials,
(12:41):
because this is actually what is writtenon the Lincoln memorial. Is it
really in this temple as in theHearts of the People for whom he saved
the Union? The memory of AbrahamLincoln? Somehow that reads better. I
think, I don't know why that'sin this temple as in the Hearts of
the Apes, for whom he savedthe planet. I think that's where it
jumps, and it's like, thisdoesn't the apes, So he saved the
(13:03):
planet from what? How did hesave the planet for for in this temple?
Is in the hearts of the Apesfor whom he freed? That would
have made sense. That kind oftold me something. But he saved the
planet. I look at that andI'm like, they're just trying to ape
the save the Union. They are, but it's too much. And again
that's where I'm jumping to this ideathat they conquered them. What would have
(13:24):
been interesting he saved it from humansthat's why I'm thinking, that's why they're
there, the planet as opposed toan evolutionary thing that we're supposed to somehow
plausibly think that a time Washington buthere doing have made better in your theory
is if you saw a broken offhead of Abraham Lincoln on the bottom and
you agree with that, and yousaw like crossed out and then rechiseled,
(13:46):
you know, instead of Union,you saw planet instead of Lincoln, you
saw thede so that you saw maybethey know that Actually, actually I like
that other than just kind of droppingit here. Maybe it's something they would
have explored in the second second filmor when they were doing here that that
actually happened. But yeah, thatwould have been a lot more dramatic to
see that moment instead where we're leftwith this on our minds are having to
(14:09):
tumble through why that's the problem.So here's the simplicity of the first film
is it's Earth future. Yeah,and we but even the things that we
see and we get are very quicklyyou go, oh shit, you can
imagine what happened, right You seethe decimated vision of the Statue of Liberty.
(14:30):
It is now somehow landlocked. Itis not not an island in the
middle of the water beach. Youhave completely changed the topography of everything about
this planet, and here it is. And when he says you did it,
that's also you're you're living in thetime when people were paranoid about those
kind of astractions. You're right,of these kind of things with the atomic
race and all this that makes sense. This has there's almost no sensical way
(14:56):
you can explain what has happened,because again weep the last time we left
that he's locked in a capsule,and we've established they were not on Earth
at all, right, and sohow did they get from that capsule to
this place in enough time to completelyeradicate and change the history of yet somehow
keep it's eerily similar to that ofmankind. It is just a fucking mess.
(15:18):
I will say, see the pictureof Lincoln there, Yeah, picture
of Lincoln there. I do likehow they kept it very similar, especially
the bare foot that's it, Andthat's I've said that before too. I
was like, I think that it'sa great it's a great visual avocation of
that statue that you look at itand it's it's very spot on. But
(15:41):
it's too spot on. If whenwas the memorial erected. It's a really
it's a really interesting idea, itis, but it's not thought through.
But it's not thought through. It'sthe we're going for the shock of viter.
That's just glear nscope walk around theright. The groundbreaking was February twelfth,
(16:02):
nineteen fourteen, fourteen, so hehad to come back prior to nineteen
fourteen, so that at least,Okay, that's great, that's one hundred
years. But I'm saying I'm sayingLeo had to take off in two thousand.
So either he changed went back andLeo's now an anomaly from nineteen fourteen.
I got you, yeah, orhe came back after Leo had taken
(16:22):
off and change time changel and it'sthere are too many questions. There's no
answer too, because they didn't makean answer. They just wanted to say,
here's our twist. Now. Thisis something I looked up and we
may talk about a little more inthe credit minutes. But I tried to
find critical consensus, audience consensus,and a lot of the things that kept
(16:44):
coming back was the twist was atwist for twist's sake, and Tim Burton
said, Look, it's a timetravel movie. It is supposed to you're
not supposed to entirely understand it.My problem with that is is that probably
please disagree with me if you canthink of something. But potentially one of
the best time travel films or seriesof films are the back to Future films.
(17:07):
Though they have plotholes and you canpoint out it part to it,
but it does explain itself and youunderstand because it is about time travel from
the very beginning. This film isnot about time travel at the very beginning.
It is about exploration, saving anape, going to a planet where
it's all intelligent apes, and thensuddenly it becomes this wonky time travel shit
(17:30):
that that's why it doesn't work.You've not explained to me how and why
this is happening. We never explained. I told you in the script it
talked about the cloud that was causingblackouts on Earth. We've never explained any
of that. They dropped it completelyright, and again, had they prefaced
it with something like some anomalous force, right, you know that was a
mystical effecting Earth could help us explainsome of this here. I know I've
(17:53):
told this story before, but Beforethis came out, Kevin Smith had written
a common book, a Clerk's comicbook that took place between clerks and and
uh, Dogma, I think andDogma one of I can't remember which one
of the movies, but they endup within a Rang and Tang and they're
running around with a ring and tangand this is like how they met it.
(18:14):
And then part of the movie theydo a plan of the apes Riff,
I mean part of the comic bookthey do a plan of the h
Riff and they go to the LincolnMemorial and it's a ape there instead and
all this stuff. And then thismovie comes out and they have the Lincoln
Memorial and ape there, and KevinSmith said, you know, it's I
can't believe that Tim Burton did this, and it's like he's ripping off my
comic. And then somebody went overto Tim Burton said Kevin Smith said,
(18:38):
you're like you're ripping off his comicputting this inning in there. He goes,
well, you know, I didn'tread Kevin Smith comics. I don't
read comics. And then Kevin Smithreplied that I know you don't read comics.
I saw Batman. Oh um,let's they get like, you know,
we're kind of left trying to explainwhy Ape Lincoln exists, typically fade,
(19:00):
how they would do this, howthe planet would transform. Where we're
not in an era where the movieaudiences can understand multiple dimensions. We're not
at that point now where it canyou know, just kind of allowed us
to do that now. And thisis a birth. This is the birth
of the internet when this comes out. So it's not like you're going to
IMDb or a form and discussing thiswith other people. I just remember seeing
(19:26):
it in the theater and at theend of it. It Initially I was
excited. I thought, Okay,that's cool, but I remember I can
remember almost the moment of walking outinto that that that that area just beyond
the concession standing you're talking to friends, and my mind starts going, what
(19:47):
how? How you have to beas the filmmaker, the person that's asking
that question, you have to lookat this and go but how And if
you've not done something, all theyhave to do is to your point,
that cloud could have been We've sentChinese weather balloons into it and they they
vanished, and they show up ayear later and showing no signs of deterioration
(20:08):
or something like that that says thatNebula is a time travel port. And
we see we see that, wesee the Bermuda Trial of the Nebula.
As he travels through we see somethingusual, but make that your mystery.
At the first of the films tomake it, we see a cow flaning
in space and there's a which funthere. You go, no, no,
no, no, but the Ithink you know he's uh, Burton's
(20:30):
probably trying to go for how doI put an ape image on something known
to the public, like what otherI just find it so funny that the
one thing that they glean on wherethey're trying to ape on the original is
to have this twist that somehow theapes and the earth surprise he didn't have
him crash in New York City andthen just over his shoulder you see the
(20:52):
statue Libertian's got an ape face instead. That would have I would have actually
done like that better. They mighthave thought that was too close. I
mean, but he crash lands inEurope. It's a sphinx with an ape
face. Yeah. Man, let'slet's let's I wish we had the budget
to actually create all these alternate endingsand pump pump, But I'm trying to
imagine what what if he lands inGreece and the museum and it's the statue
(21:12):
of David with an ape face andhe finds the Mona Lisa and it's an
ape face. It's ari. Imean, that's basically what he's trying to
figure out. He's trying to figureout, how can I take the statue
of liberty and iconic imagery? Whatis a big national monument that we have,
and then how do I personify that? And this makes the most sense.
It's where, Okay, Sean maybe able to find a plot hole
(21:33):
in these new films, but atleast the new films said, let's let's
be very respectful of these films,but let's forge your own path. And
there will be moments and I thinkpotentially in the first one is a little
more ham fisted when it comes tosome of the hrod nods to the original
films. Yeah, and they getaway from that a little bit as it
goes on. Yeah, but it'snever this. I will at least assure
(21:55):
you and I will not spoil asingle fucking thing for you about these Richard,
because Richard is the one who's notseen any of them. It is
never this there's even though you maygo, oh there it is, you
will never have the Ape Lincoln moment. I guarantee you that. Yeah,
And I think that's where this onegoes really a straight. As they were,
they're trying both so hard to avoidretelling that story, yet also trying
(22:21):
so hard to to somehow evoke thefeelings and the thoughts that we have from
it. And you can't do it. You can't. You can't mix this
without setting it up. And it'sjust this Ape Lincoln is the perfect name
for it. It is. Itis the worst moment of this film in
mynd people. And it's it's noteven it's not even that we're at this
touch of the sorry the link memorialand it's an ape face. It's the
fact that it's also specifically fade fadeand just you know, yeah, we
(22:48):
needed that moment, you know,the cliff fingers, the villain still alive,
or you know, if they putlike Cornelius or Caesar or somebody else's
name on there would have been sothat would have been fascinating. I would
have loved you go wait who isthis it? They were going so hard
to avoid a name some original films, to throw an original name film,
and here'd be fantastic. Let's goback to your idea with the MCU giving
(23:11):
us multiple dimensions and whatnot. Iwould have rather that Leo took that pod
blasted off from the planet and there'sthe Obern. Oh my god, it's
safe. And he lands on Obronand he's running the fucking Obrin that I
could have almost bought, because thensomehow he got the Obern off and you
know, and that's when he safelylands on the space station that's hovering over
something. It's not the Obern,it's a different place. Yeah, And
(23:32):
all of a sudden he gets in. He realizes that the nurses that are
taking care from all apes. Yeah, that'd be freaky. I mean that
that but that seems more plausible.But again, you're trying to evoke,
trying to avoid the original film asmuch as possible while putting something iconic.
We are running from the original film. Yeah, we're trying to make the
original film. Yeah, we areconcluding reference, not just a reference.
(23:52):
Are concluding reference. I think thatwe've all dreaded this moment and I think
when you get to it, andespecially if you're going to look critically at
it, it is so it leftfield doesn't even constitute where this comes from.
It I don't know where the fuckit comes from. I think I
remember walking out of the theater andI remember said I didn't think it was
that bad when I watched it originally. I think I remember walking to go,
(24:14):
huh okay, Yeah. I thinkI was going with it because I
thought, so too cool, that'sinteresting. And then I just dropped it
like it was popcorn film. Ijust let it go. I didn't actually
like digest what it actually happened.But I'm trying to remember I had a
conversation with friends about what happened.Because it's been a while, so you
can have popcorn films. Star Warsis a popcorn film, the original New
Hope, but it still had somethingto say, you know, trusting yourself
(24:37):
and not in technology. What thefuck is this film about? I mean,
if we're if we're referencing it,was it guns. We're talking about
guns, We're talking about religion,we're talking we're talk talking about politics,
we're talking about slavery. I meanthat maybe that's the callback here maybe,
but I just don't think that,you know, the slave Okay, if
(25:00):
you're going to put Ape Lincoln here, it would have been interesting to really
push the idea of slavery more withinthe planet so that these two would tie
together. Right they don't, Butthey don't. They didn't do enough with
that. In fact, again,all the humans are very clean, treated,
you know, as house servants morethan zos and everything. They can
speak, they can talk, andthey have families. And when we last
(25:21):
left, Lee left the planet.They're all getting exactly I mean, the
first movie had a message. Ithad a you know, Rod Serving writing
a script for it, so youcan't go wrong with it. Not saying
they weren't trying to make money.Obviously they were trying to make money.
That's what you do with a movie, but this one just felt like they
were going, hey, we havea title and we can get money off
(25:44):
that, and we can get goodmakeup, modern day makeup. Yeahs.
Anybody google to see what some ofthe other previously attached people wanted to.
I've been trying to get Ai todo Mona Lisa as an ape, and
that's the closest I can get.There's Apelisa Mona least, it doesn't look
that far from the Apish look asa point. So I think that that's
pretty much gets us to the endof that. We've got one more minute
(26:07):
of action, if I'm correct,correct before this is our last minute of
action. So let's do this,Let's wrap this up. Let's come in
and go out tomorrow and see whatwe can figure out and see if it
makes itself any more clear. Allright, all right, So for Richard
Sean, I am Todd. We'releaving Ape Lincoln in the past, and
everyone have a great day. Byebye, everybody.
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