Gwilda Wiyaka Interviews - DR. JOEL FUHRMAN - Hidden Risks of Plant-Based Food

Joel Fuhrman, M.D. is a board-certified family physician, seven-time New York Times best-selling author and internationally recognized expert on nutrition and natural healing. He specializes in preventing and reversing disease through nutritional methods. Dr. Fuhrman’s latest book is “Eat for Life.”

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Mission Evolution Radio show with Guildawaka, bringing together
today's leading experts to uncover ever deepening spiritual truths and
the latest scientific developments in support of the evolution of humankind.
For more information on Mission Evolution Radio with Gildawaka, visit
www dot Mission evolution dot org and now here's the

(00:31):
host of Mission Evolution, Miss Gwildawiaka.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Medical doctors and nutritionalists, alongside a sea of untrained individuals,
all offer copious dietary advice, often with clashing viewpoints and
varying levels of credibility. A large number advocate for strictly
plant based diets, but are there hidden nutritional risks or
potential health concerns associated with a vegan diet. Mission Evolution

(01:04):
Radio TV show is coming to you around the world
on the x on TV channel EXEDBN excuse me x
ZTV dot CA. With this cis hour to delve into
possible health risks of a vegan diet is Doctor Joel Furman.
Doctor Furman is a Board certified family physician and seven
times New York Times best selling author. His latest book

(01:26):
is Eat for Life. An internationally recognized expert on nutrition
and natural healing, He specializes in preventing and reversing disease
through nutritional methods. His website doctor Furman dot com. Doctor Furman,
thanks for joining us once again on Mission Evolution.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thank you great to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
It's just always wonderful to work with you. So you're
a family physician. How much education on nutrition did you
get in medical school?

Speaker 3 (01:52):
You know, I went to medical school was specific intent
of being a physician specializing in nutrition, So I made
up my personal vendetta, you know, to really be an
expert in this. But in medical school itself, they don't
really it's not their interests. You're really learning about drugs, surgery,
and a lot about physiology and pathout physiology and the
process of disease. But doctors really don't have the skills

(02:16):
to motivate, train and change people's behaviors and get them
to eat healthfully. So, you know, it's a growing part
of medicine today, and the American College of the Life
Stole Medicine has brought this mainstream where doctors are being
certified in this field now, usually in their postgraduate training,
and there's more than eight thousand doctors now who are
certified as a Board certified and from the American College

(02:38):
of the Life stile Medicine. There's also in the New
York City hospitals. There's a lifestyle medicine office in most
of the hospitals there, including Harvard and GW. You know,
I was watching university. So it's a growing field, I
should say, But no, we didn't get it in medical school.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well I'm glad it's growing because you know, the old
adage you are what you eat, I think has a
lot more truth than one might think. Yeah, so your
bio says your internationally recognized expert on nutrition and natural healing.
How did you get there? What was your course like
your trajectory to get there?

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Well, you know, I'm president of the Nutritional Research Foundation,
which is a nonprofit. We're specializing and doing studies to
ascertain how we can use nutritional interventions to treat and
reverse disease. But yes, it's kind of been my passion,
my love that to say that, you know, people don't
have to have diabetes, they don't have to have heart
attacks or strokes, that nutritional science has made such incredible

(03:35):
advances that we can stop more than eighty five percent
of all cancers. Don't have to occur, and so we
really can extend you in lifespan, and the average lifespan
of humans could be closer to one hundred years old,
not the eighty year old lifespan we're seeing most for
most average Americans. So we have tremendous upside not from
high technology medicine, but from low technology nutritional excellence. So

(03:57):
that's where So that led me to be to have
being critical of the medical profession which just focuses on drugs,
where people continue to abuse their bodies with disease causing
for substances. So I developed this specialty. And of course
you and I know, I've had five successful PBS television shows.
I've have seven New York Times best selling books. They've

(04:17):
raised over seventy million dollars for public television, and you know,
so I've gotten a lot of opportunity. I've been very
blessed to reach a huge reach of millions of people
with a message of eating better and taking care of
their health. And because of that, I've produced a lot
of studies and gotten lots of people who've changed their
life trajectory and reversed heart disease, got rid of their

(04:38):
high blood pressure, reverse their diabetes, got rid of their
autoimmune disease like lupus and scleroderma and psoriasis went away.
And so what I'm saying here nutrition is a powerful intervention,
therapeutic intervention. And that's really what I've devoted my research
and my interest in learning and studying and applying with
the patients over the last four decades.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Pretty impressive, sir. So you talked about eating right. It
can create longevity, but can it literally does it prevent
disease or can it literally reverse disease once it's already
set in.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying that the same
diet style that's designed to maximize human longevity, slow aging,
and protect against cancer, and that means including foods with
the most powerful anti cancer compounds in them, which I
call g bonds, greens and beans and onions and mushrooms
and berries and seeds like flax seeds and gia seeds,

(05:39):
that we can pick these foods out include them in
our diet to have incredible anti cancer effects. And the
same diet style and the same dietary portfolio that enables
humans to prevent cancer and age slow under the long time,
can be therapeutical effected people to reverse disease. The diet,
they lose weight, their diabetes goes away, they lose the
visceral at and their blood vessels become more elastistic, elastic, elastic,

(06:03):
and their blood pressure goes to normal, and their chest
pains go away. And if they have skin diseases, their
exemer phariasis goes away. If they have headaches, and headaches
go away. So so the satisfaction and tremendous reward I've
gotten over the last three decades is working with people
and being able to advocate with authority and predictability that yes,
you can get well if you don't have to take

(06:25):
drugs the rest of your life, and you don't have
to suffer with type two diabetes, you don't have to
have high blood pressure forever. If you follow this, if
you really want to get great health, you can do it,
and you can reverse your disease, and you can even
get better from asthma and chronic headaches and even lupus
and rumat autithritis. That's how effective this is. And I've
obviously not only involved with clinical my own clinical practice,

(06:47):
but also research studies to show that this is effective.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
What kind of research studies are they.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
Well. For example, in my book Eat for Life, which
is one of my most recent books I've written in
the twelve books, but I have more than two thousand
scientific references in that book, and so written for lay people.
But with two thousand signific references, you want every paragraph
or every statement you're making to be well supported by
numerous amounts of research, and the credence of the research

(07:20):
is more supported when you have studies that show the
same findings, when one study corroborates another study, when a
short term study is corroboratly at a long term study
where people followed it for thirty years and show a
better outcome. First, it's just for example, if you took
a cholesterol lowering drug and it lowered you LDO cholesterol, Well,
that's great, and that's effective to lowering cholesterol. But does

(07:42):
that translate into a longer lifespan or might it be
that lowering cholesterol with the drug increases the risk of
cancer and the increased or diabetes and they increase diabetic
or cancer deaths orfset the benefits to heart disease. So
do we have a study going on for thirty years
forty years, tracking people to the end of life and
looking at a hard endpoints to corroborate the benefits to
the cholesterol and drugs. So I'm saying you get more

(08:04):
credence when you have a long term study corroborating a
short term study which is a soft endpoint. The long
term study is showing a hard endpoint like age of
death or cause of death. So yes, we have an
incredible large number of studies corroborating the fact that eating
salads with raw onion and cooked mushrooms and beans and
lots of green vegetables. We have literally thousands of studies

(08:27):
shown that eating a wide variety of colorful plant foods
extends human lifespan and prevent cancers. And that is it
should not be controversial because it's an overwhelming amount of
data that almost all research scientists and physicians specializing in
nutrition agree with. So we have true as far as

(08:48):
the lay person thinking that so much disagreements and so
many people so much different a view, and who do
we believe that's really not that accurate because ninety eight
percent of people in the field of nutritional research and
nutritional science agree with each other on the type of
inclusionary foods we need to put in our dietary protocol
to prevent cancer and extending my lifespan.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
So what do you think is the most important findings
in nutritional research science over the last five years.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
The most important findings believe it or not, that people
were going to be shocked by, is that as we
rev up more animal protein in our diet, more animal
proteinsho percent of total calories, we see lifespan go down
in a dosematinic relationship from all cause mortality, both cardiovascua
death and cancer death. More animal products or animal protein

(09:36):
shorter lifespan, and in the converse is true which surprised people,
and that was as people increase the amount of plant
derived protein in their diet, they lived longer and had
longer lifespans. So we're leading to the thing more plant protein,
less animal products, less animal protein. And I think that's
not only because these foods are rich in plant proteins,

(09:59):
it's what they also contain. In other words, the prime
proteins are not as biologically complete, so they don't raise
IGF one excessively high they can promote cancer. But the
plant proteins that are company with lots of phytochemicals that
act as antioxidants and homeoetic relationship with a cell, meaning

(10:19):
that the cells aren't wasting energy and producing as many toxins,
and the digestive tract gets fueled with beneficial bacteria that
don't produce pro inflammatory compounds either. Like when you eat
more animal products, you produce more TMAO trimethylamine oxide, which
inflames the lining of the blood vessels, increasing deposition of atherosclerosis,

(10:42):
and you develop more heart disease. It's not just the
cholesterol and saturated fat in the animal product, it's also
the animal protein itself, leading from more gram negative organisms
to be growing and you digest the tract. So what
I'm saying is that this recent findings are that this
huge that the increased variety of plant substances in the
diet WI gives us this opportunity to you know, have

(11:05):
a longer lifespan. And people with the healthiest, most anti
inflammatory microbiome are people eat the widest variety of natural
plant foods.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
So the speaking of microbiome, there's a lot of things
that have interfered with our microbiome. Antibiotics safe for instance,
and they didn't know that at first, So people of
my of my area, my era ended up having a
lot of really strong antibiotic therapy and it seems to
have affected the gut. Then can if that is that

(11:38):
the case, and if so, is that playing part in
us not being able to absorb the nutrients that are available.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Well, it's true that the overuse of antibiotics, being prescribed
inappropriately for viral indications and when a're not needed, leads
to certain problems in people's lives. And the use of
antibiotics for a young person could increase the risk of
eggzima or even cancer. The number of antibiotic times you've
taken an antibotic for urnitrac infection can significantly increase risk

(12:09):
of getting breast cancer in later life for example. So yes,
the answer is over use of antibiotics and inappropriate use
of antibiotics does have serious potential effects. And when you
live in such a healthy manner, your chance of getting
infection is much lower. And so now we try to
live healthily to avoid the need from getting infected, and
also just being fin any healthy keeps you thinner, increases

(12:33):
your immune function to get not be sick with bacterial infections.
So for example, being significantly overweight doubles your risk of
death from pneumonia. And we sort that during COVID when
people who didn't need healthy and were overweight had much
higher risk of serious morbidity and mortality when they got
COVID infections. So yes, we want to reduce the exposure
to drugs if possible. So does the.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Is the immune system impact acted then by the same
things that make us fat, Yes.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
That's correct. In other words, our diet were a green
vegetable dependent animal, particularly the cruciferous greens like broccoli and
cabbage that have isothiocyanides, which support the immune function and
enable immune surveillance, the ability ability of the body to
seek out and destroy abnormal cells that become cancerous. So yes,
we're trying to And these same substances that build the

(13:28):
immune system's ability to recognize abnormal cells and fight cancer
help build the the intra epithelial lymphocytes that surround the
digestive track, and these are the one of defenders the
gates of the castle of the body, so they can.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Knock out We're gonna have to talk about the castle
on the other side of a station break, Doctor Furman
and I will return very shortly, so don't go away.
This is Mission Evolution. Mission evolution dot org is Protein Overrated.
With this hour discussing the complex issue of animal protein
versus plant protein is doctor Joel furman Is website doctor

(14:07):
furmin dot com. Before we get onto the protein issue,
we were talking about how things that cause obesity also
cause some other very wide and varied disorders, including immune deficiency.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Would you continue, that's correct. When you're overweight, the fat cells,
of course qw out pro inflammatory compounds and make the
body which suppress immune function and also raise estrogen levels
in the body, which can increase risk of prostate and
breast cancer. And it's called insulin resistance, which means the
fat cells prevent insulin molecule from bringing glucose out of

(14:44):
the blood into the use utilized by our tissues. So
in some resistance means more glucose, more sugar, stays in
the blood longer, and the body has to make more insulin.
So when you're overweight, you're getting more insulin, more estrogen,
and of course you're having reduced immune function. So the
same way people fast foods, processed foods, fried foods overeat
calories they're going to suppress their immune function, they're going

(15:06):
to decrease the nutrient density and their tissues, they're going
to increase the toxic level in their tissues, and of
course they're going to raise hormones to cancer promoting levels.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
So protein is cited as a major issue in plant
based diets. What foods are the highest in plant proteins.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
That's exactly the point of this of the people, which
should leave here with is that the same foods that
are high in plant protein seems to have the most
of power to make people live longer. And those foods
are three foods green vegetables, beans, lagoons, and nuts and seeds.
So those are there's five plant foods in all right,

(15:45):
natural plant foods. There's fruits, vegetables, beans, nuts and seeds,
and intactile grains. They're the only one low in protein
is fruit. So plant foods have an adequate protein unless
you're eating too much fruit, like more than half your
diet was fruit, it could be too low in protein.
But if you're putting oil on your food instead of
nuts and seeds as a source of fat, then you
could be taking protein out of your diet as well

(16:05):
and making a diet predominantly plant food be low in protein.
But if you're eating enough green vegetables and nuts and
seeds and beans, then we can build up to easily
get the protein needs met with. You know, I don't
know seventy to ninety grams of protein for fifteen hundred calories.
You know you can build up. You can In other words,
you can design a diet that gives you a robust
amount of protein if you eat a healthy, well designed

(16:27):
plant based diet, not eat jump food, not eating fried foods,
junk foods, oils, because you can eat plant foods and
non animal products. You know, plant foods that are junk
food and don't have good protein, sugar, maple syrup, oils.
You know, we could eat processed foods, but if you're
eating natural, whole foods. And what I'm saying is that
these studies, the greens, the beans, the nuts and seeds

(16:49):
have these spidronutrients, bioflavonoids, resistant starches, lignins, you know, all
types of sterols, stanols, all types of chemicals that make
us live longer, that lower estrogen, that exten humin lifespan,
and improve immune function. So the same plant fods that
are rich in protein also contain a host of beneficial

(17:11):
nutrients that benefit our longevity.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
I know some years ago, quite a few years ago,
there was this big hoopla about a complete protein and
that you had to add a meal, combine grain with
sabines and that sort of thing. Is that valid or
do we have to eat it all at once to
create a complete protein to replace meat.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
We do not have to eat it all at once.
But it's good to have a variety of plant fruits
in your diet, so you are getting all the complementary
eminum acids over the twenty four hour period, but you
don't have to eat it all at one meal. Plus
the fact that don't forget the body is able to
produce the level of meino acids needed for normal function
if you're eating enough calories, and their health from healthy

(17:53):
calories because your body can digest some of the bacteria
and the gut and the sloughed off epithelial cells and
the digest track lining are digested for the meal, and
we have stored proteins in the epithelial line on the
interstitial lining of the digester track, so the body can
take can adjust things accordingly to make the protein it
needs to make the hormones it needs at the levels
for good health. But the problem is is when we

(18:16):
eat animal protein, especially too much animal protein, we can't
stop too much amino acids from entering the bloodstream in
a complete form. And because those excess calories protein calories
can't be as efficiently burned for energy or for fat,
they're more if they're not burned for energy, they're stored
as they turned into hormones that promote growth, the growth

(18:37):
of muscle and the growth of fat, and the growth
of tumors. So the excessive growth promoting high biological proteins
are what we're careful of, so they don't promote tissues
that shouldn't be growing like tumors when we're an adult.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
So what are the advantage of plant based protein versus
animal We've been talking about a lot of them.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Right right, So yeah, that's the I think that's the
message of modern nutritional science because we've people have been
drummed into their head the importance of protein. We need
the protein to put it pro muscle, for muscles from
bone strength with aging, and also for immune function and
brain function with aging. So we need these proteins. But
I think the message that they've been droned into their
heads is we get our protein from animal products. And

(19:18):
now this new message is, no, we get our proteins
the same way the chimpanzees and the hippopotamus and the
giraffe and the elephant get the proteins. We get it
from green vegetables. And humans eating beans and nuts and
seeds with green vegetables doesn't only give us adequate protein,
it radically extends human lifespan radically. We're talking about ending
ten or twenty years to humans lives when they're actually

(19:40):
switching out reducing animal protein, needing more high protein plant fruits.
Americans don't eat nuts and seeds for fat. They eat
animal fats and oils. Then are eating walnuts and almonds
and sesame seeds, and right, they're not really eating nuts.
This is a major source of their calories. But all
the studies done on this subject, more than fifty of them,
show that as you include nuts and seeds in a
daily the diet, your risk of cardiovasca death goes down

(20:02):
by forty percent forty percent a meta analysis, and means
that the corroborative findings all these studies are like, one
study doesn't show ten percent, another studies was fifty percent,
another study shows five percent. No, they all show about
thirty eight to forty percent reduction in cardiovasca death from
the inclusion of at least an ouncid nuts and seeds

(20:23):
a day. But preferably we recommend the minimum of an
ounce and a half a day. Because the Seventh Day
Adventist Health Study two a dventist health study two have
done in this country been going on for years and years.
They're studying a population of Americans that generally live inde
healthy than most other Americans do. And when they showed

(20:43):
people on this healthier cohort that have less than a
half announced nuts a day to more than announced and
a half a day, the difference on total mortality was
thirty percent difference and in cardiovasca mortality was forty percent different.
In other words, we get tremendous increase in lifespan from
utilizing and seeds as a source of fat and protein
instead of using oils and animal fats.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
So what about like olive oil, that sort of thing.
Is that not as beneficial as they've been crowing about.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
That's correct, it's not as beneficial as they've been crowing.
Let me give you an example, because as you put
more oil in the diet, obviously if you have used
walnuts or almonds or olives instead of the oil, you
would have gotten the fat in a form that is
digested more slowly, and it wouldn't be it wouldn't be
rushed into the bloodstream with such a light pemic load.
So much fat at one time that drives appet as

(21:37):
an appetite stingul that drives fat stored and drives people
to overeat. So olive oil is fattening, whereas the olive
or the nut or seed or the walnut would not
have been fattening. Also that we need fatten our diets
for absorption of the anti cancer phatochemicals, so some fat
is good for us. So like the prevabient study, for example,
done in Europe, so that people who used extra virgin

(21:59):
olive oil as a source of fat instead of butter
and other fats reduced their cardiovascu death rate by fifteen percent.
That's a huge amount of the reduction of rates. So
we're showing here that olive oil is beneficial compared to
other sources of fat. But when they compared the olive
oil group to the people eating nuts and seeds like
walnuts and almonds. They reduced their cardiovascuar death rates more

(22:20):
than fifty percent and the longest with people in the
prevamid study. The longest of the cohort were those people
eating nuts and seeds at baseline that were then randomized
to stay eating nuts and seeds. That was the group
that lived alongest. So even though olive oil is better
is a source of fat than other sources of fat,
it's still not as good as probably eating walnuts and
avocado and sesame seeds. You know, still good, but not

(22:42):
the best.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
So, you know, sometimes we need to cook with you know,
you were doing a stir fry. We need some kind
of fat in there. Is olive oil still the best
for that.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, we do stir friyes, like we stir fry in
water or tomato juice and pineapple, and we stir fry
and we put a to Once we stir fry the food,
then we put a Thai curry sauce on it. And
the Kai curry sauce could have had heavy seeds and
cashews and curkdumin and lemon, grass and dates in there,
so we could make a We make all these delicious
sauces and dressings a different way of cooking, utilizing nuts

(23:17):
and seeds which have life span promoting effects to get
great flavor and great texture. Even if we can make
an icing on a bean on a chocolate bean brownie,
we can make an avocado chocolate ice cream. So when
you convention the rescue would call for butter or oil,
we can turn it and blend the nuts and seeds
into a cream sauce and make something tasting just as
good with nuts and seeds.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Gotcha. So the longevity of the seeds and that sort
of thing, is that why people advocate like.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Quinois quene's a grain.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
I think it's a seed, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
Well, it's a starchy. I consider it the grain field,
you know, entire tall grain field, like you know steel
cut oats or groats and quen w and theft and
I don't know if it's you know, but it's not
a traditional seed like sesame seeds and flax seeds and
shaga seeds and sunflowers and punkin seeds are kind of
a fatty protein mix, where keen was more of a

(24:12):
carbohydrate type type. So yeah, yeah, So in any case,
I think it's it's it's still good for you, but
it doesn't contain me. It's not in the same category
as getting our fats from these whole foods. Because keep
in mind that low glacing the carbohydrates go into the bloodstream.
Sugar goes in the bloodstream slowly, high glacing to carbohydrates

(24:35):
like white flour and white rice and white bread and
go into the bloodstream the glucose and the bloodstream rapidly.
And the rapid heighted glucose in the blood stream stresses
the body out and promotes disease. The same thing with fat,
nuts and seeds go in through the bloodstream the like
pemic load after the meal one or two calories a minute,
the body can preferentially burn those calories for energy, like

(24:57):
pemic load from oil or animal fats. You spike a
lot of fat in the blood at one time, which
then can stimulate athoscrosis and stimulate the brain, the apostat
and the central nervous system and make and also be
so many calories in the blood at one time can
be like an addictive can can promote addictive cravings to
want to over eat food.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
So when we go back to the fat issue, right.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
And then we go back for the body fat issue.
So it's really better that you use whole foods because
it's more satiating and it doesn't trigger the brain to
be to want to overeat calories.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
So where do you stand on grains? We've been talking
a lot about the seeds and then that's the you know,
but do grains do we need? Do we eat too
many grains? And is it not just about what grains
we eat but what kind?

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Well, certainly we should eat intact grains that are not
refined into flour. I always make the you know, I
always say the white of the bread the sooner you're dead,
because white flowers are sugar equivalent. It's and as the
body is sugar, you know, and so it's you know.
So we're getting the problem with grains is we're getting
most of our grain from processed grains like and white
flower products, and those are dangerous foods. And intact grain

(26:03):
means you use the whole wheatberry, or use the whole
oak roat, or use the whole keene wie, use the
whole teft or amarinth, you know. So four grains as
a healthy food. But for people with a lower CLOrk
window who don't need as many calories, they have to
cut back on the grains appropriately to be able to
include the inadequate amount of all the nuts and seeds

(26:26):
and greens and beans in their diet. So beans are
more longevity promoting anti cancer food compared to grains. They
have more bioflavonoids, they have more polyphenols. The beans are
even better than grains. So if you can't have enough
room in your appetite, both you better off the beans
and eating less grain or skipping the grain. But grains
are okay.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
You know by beans, do you mean lagomes.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yes, lagomes correct, you're.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Not talking about the green ones. Okay. So if we're
going to start cutting back on grains in order to
drop our overall caloric intake, it's better to just kind
of stay away from them, and particularly if you have them,
make sure their whole grains.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
Right, that's correct. Like I might have for breakfast, I
might have a tablespoon of flax seeds and a tablespoon
of chia seeds, a cup of blueberries and cherries, and
maybe I'll have a third of a cup of oat groats.
In there. You know, I'm not using that. I'm not
filling my whole bowl up with groats because I wouldn't
have room for the berries and the nuts in there

(27:30):
and the plant, you know what I mean. So I
want to have enough rooms and all the other things.
Maybe I'll put a table sit of wa term in
there or something too, you know, I want to have
enough room to heat everything in.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Well, it's time for us to take another station break,
Doctor Furman, and I will be right back to continue
our discussion. Stay right there. This is Mission Evolution, Mission
evolution dot org. What did the Adventists have to do
with health? This is Mission Evolution, Mission Evolution dot org.
With this discussing diet and health is doctor Joe Furman

(27:59):
his website dot com. Doctor Furman, you briefly mentioned the
study that was done with the Adventists there religious group,
I believe. Would you tell us a little bit about
that and why it's important findings for our health today.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
Well, the Adventus Health Study has been going on for
decades in the United States, and it's one of the
foundational studies in human nutrition that such a the information
we'd gleaned from those studies have been so important in
the history of nutritional science, and the reason for that
is that adventists as a whole are encouraged to live healthfully.
They generally don't smoke, they exercise regularly, and they don't

(28:40):
drink a lot of alcohol, so they're encouraged to eat
healthier in general. So when you're comparing a vegan who
adventist who's eating some animal products or meat or eggs
compared to one who's not, you're not confusing the y.
You're not getting more confounding variables with smoking, drinking, or
eating unhealthily in the stent, and the person who's eating
meat compared to the one who's eating vegetables, they're both
eating pretty healthy on both sides. So we're able to

(29:03):
look at people based on sex, age, race, and with
other parameters being relatively similar similar so we're able to
compare vegans to vegetarians, to non vegans, to people who
meet more or less. So we're able to get a
lot of data out of the EVENTUS Health Study two,
and they have a large number of researchers and a

(29:24):
large number of participants. There's over like nine one hundred
thousand person year follow up in the event is Health
Study two. So we're talking about now. So in other words,
we have a huge amount of data, a huge amount
of researchers. It's going on for decades, and every year
they publish new data on new subjects from the same
cohort they've been studying for decades.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Oh. Interesting, So it's it's a more control than just
working with the general populace for all the reasons you mentioned.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yes, it's very it's very controlled. In the data we
have is very important. Like I said earlier, advent is
to eat nuts and seeds in the highest quinto have
forty percent cardiovasca death compared to eat the venticey eat
the lowest nuts and seeds. So we're comparing similar diet,
similar healthy people, one eating nuts, one not eating nuts.
What happens differently, and we see, Wow, you eat nuts,

(30:15):
you live so much longer, you get so much rollers
apart disease. It's amazing, you know.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
So what is the most surprising thing that has come
from those studies?

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Well, I think surprisingly we find that three or four things.
Number one, the lowest rate of cardiovascuer death and cancer
deaths was in the vegan vegetarians, the people who were
not eating animal products in that study, then people eating
wheat leat, they tested whether maybe animal products just once

(30:46):
or twice a week, what about people weight meat once
a week? Is there a significant increase in cardiovasca death?
And the answer is yes, there was. But the flexitarians
who eight nuts and seeds had lower risk of death
than the vegans who did not eat nuts and seeds.
So even though meat was a risk factor, not eating

(31:07):
nuts was a bigger risk factor. Okay. Then then they saw, okay,
since the vegans have lower risk of cardiovasca deaths, what
diseases were increased risk in the vegans is the cause
of death and this is what they found in the
recent study. And I have the study right here in
front of me. It's published in October twenty twenty four.
You know, here's the study of people just want to

(31:27):
see the name of this study, but in any case,
it's from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. And what
it found was that the vegan vegetarians, the people who
were more that were not eating any animal products, had
a seventeen percent increased risk of stroke and a thirteen
percent increased risk of dementia and a thirty seven percent
increased risk of Parkinson's disease compared to the people who

(31:50):
worrieding animal products in the day. So that's even though.
So even though they were clear about being lower rates
of cancer, there were increased risk of neurologic deficits in
later life. And we now are understanding the reasons for that.
And that's what we're here to discuss, is that as
people move to a plant based eye and start to
exclude all animal products, there's three nutrients that three or

(32:13):
four nutrients become important here to make sure they don't
have increased neurologic deficit in later life. One is dha epa,
particularly dha which which people commonly know as fish oil.
It's the long chain omega three fatty acid we get
from fish. Apparently, the studies are showing that when people's
Omega three index gets excessively low from not exposure to

(32:36):
the omega three fatty acids, then the ability of the
body to detoxify and remove neurologic toxins goes down. And
one study, for example, showed that the malandi aldehyde, a
toxin increased by fifty percent in people who omega three
index was low. So low Mega three deficiencies more exposure

(32:57):
to toxins and poisons that could damage the brain and
cause let's say Parkinson's disease. We know that living near
a golf course increases risk of Parkinson's disease. We know
the dry cleaning your clothing increases risk of parkins and disease.
The exposure to chemicals on the farm increases risk of
parkings and disease. And now we know that the chemicals
that could induce Parkinson's disease, the toxicity to those chemicals

(33:17):
and is enhanced if our Omega three index is too low.
So if we're on a vegan diet and we're not
eating any seafood with omega three or small animals like
frogs or spam whips or salamanders or whatever, then you
should be taking a plant based omega three or official
based Omega three. So you can get a plant based
or algae derived omega three and you could adjust the

(33:39):
dose so that have most favored Omega three index to
prolong life span and neurologic deficits. And that's what the
studies show. The meta analysis of forty eight studies show
the most protection occurred against later life diseases, neurolargic deficits
with both shrinkers of the brain from dementia and for
pretention of Parkinson's when the dose was adjusted on the

(33:59):
end vidual basis to a person's needs based on a
blood test, so the omega three index and adjusting your
level to be the about favorite range so the bettest
long term outcomes. So we're talking here about vitamin B twelve.
Most people know vitamin bechweve vegans need to take vitamin
beachreve it's present mostly in outur products, but many people
on plant based diets or vegan diets aren't aware of

(34:21):
their need to particularly be aware of their omega three
index and the DHA they're consuming. And the third most
important nutrients. Third nutrient you don't get idea levels on
a plant based diet that could impact later life health
is zinc because plant foods, buying zinc and taking extra
zinc has been shown to reduce risk of dementia and

(34:41):
reduce the risk of pneumonia and reduce the risk of
cancer in later life. So it's dha EPA, zinc, and
B twelve that could reduce these neurologic issues seen in
vegans and the other The third thing we're talking about
is salt less nutrient is salt Because I said that
these vegans it's had a seventeen percent entrease risk of stroke. Now,

(35:05):
there are two types of strokes. There's hemorrhagic stroke and
there's schemic stroke. Right, So the hemorrhagic stroke is when
a fragile vessel in the brain breaks open and you
bleed into the brain. That's the type of stroke we
see in Asian countries we eat a lot of salt,
where they don't eat a lot of hamburgers and bacon
and cheese like we do in America. In the United States,

(35:27):
we see more a schemic stroke caused by clots or
embalon or embali in Asian countries beat more hemorrhagic strokes
ten times the risk of hemorrhagic strokes. In Asian countries
because the air LDL cholesterol is lower, they have less
heart attacked and lesser schemic strokes and more hemorrhagic strokes. Well,
that's what we're seeing in the vegans. We're seeing more
risk of hemorrhagic stroke because having a higher LDL cholesterol

(35:51):
and eating more meat and bacon and cheeseburgers that causes
heart disease, creates makes thickens the interior and the externally
walled blood vessels in the brain, and makes a thickened
blood vessel with plaque on it is more resistant to
the effects of hemorrhaging when you have exposed salt exposure
throughout your life. So what I'm saying here is that

(36:13):
salt doesn't just raise blood pressure. The salt exposure through
life weakens the interior lining of blood vessels. Over time,
it causes damage. It causes more fragility and aging of
the blood vessel, making it a higher propensity to break open.
So when a person's on a vegan diet and their
diets and their vessels are normally thin and not thickened

(36:35):
with plaque, then not eating salt becomes more important because
otherwise a vegan otherwise eating a super healthy diet, could
be a high risk of a stroke if they still
salt their food but use considerably salt on their food.
So the vegan diet does not protect you against the
hemorrhagic stroke. It only protects you against the schemic stroke.
And if you're still salting your food a lot on
a vegan diet, you could still have a haemorrhagic stroke,

(36:56):
and the risk of haemoragic stroke could be so high
it could be higher than a person need meat. And
that's what we saw, a seventeen percent increased risk of
stroke in vegans compared to meat uses.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
So with all this, with all this in mind, what
is the best diet?

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Well, you know that's a controversial question. My viewpoints are
that I think a diet that's vegan, that's supplemented intelligently
is the best diet. Supplement smartly and intelligently is the
best diet. Or a diet with a little bit of
seafood to get omega three, zinc and d and beach well.
But the problem is the inland lakes or you could

(37:37):
say too much nitrogen and toxic runoff leading to algae
overgrowth and the BM A toxin in the lakes and
coastal waterways dumping of garbage and plastics. So the seafood
has become too contaminated with potential neurologic causing chemicals, and
we're seeing increased risk of als and parkings disease, and
people in Chesapeake Bay and living around inland lakes eating
seafood or the ocean fronts where they're dumping gart which

(38:01):
so it's leading to many of us in the field
of lifestyle medicine to be advocating people move to vegan
diets and then use the and then to supplement their
diet of zinc, DHA, and B twelve to the levels
that would be better achieved if you had me eaten
sea from your diet. So, even though this is a
controversial question and people have different viewpoints, my viewpoint is

(38:23):
we're seeing tremendous extension of human lifespan with people following
plant based or plant predominant diets where we reduce animal
products to low levels, which then requires the use of
certain supplements.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
So basically, the sign of our times is also changing
what's the best diet? Because what was best before the
oceans and the lakes became so polluted was probably a
different animal so to speak. Then what's best now?

Speaker 3 (38:51):
I think that's true. I think if we were living
one hundred years ago having it, because then you wouldn't
have all the supplemental science there, then eating a small
amounting some seafood mixed in with a predominantly plant based
diet would have given you the most comprehensive exposure to
all the nutrients humans that we needed. I think that
would be the best quality diet if we took out,
if we took pollution and contamination the waterways out of that,

(39:13):
then a diet that probably had a small out of
seafood with a lot of plants would be the best.
And now that the waterways are contaminated so much, it's
probably better to move all the way and avoid and
to just get more of take the omega three fatty
acid supplements it would get from normally get some fish
or seafood.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
So what about farm raised to fish.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
They're most likely even more polluted, you know, because they
have to give them antibiotics that are living in close
proximity to each other and still raised off the coastal
waterways of the continental shelf. There are ways right right
at the where the land ends. That's where they have
the pens. And there's still tremendous contamination of continental shelf
and the most dangerous seafood by the way, with the
highest rates of the toxin b m A that cause

(39:52):
PDS Parkinson's dementia syndrome and als or bivalance, which used
to be the healthiest foods. The DHA and zinc. We're
talking about oysters, clams, scallops, and mussels because they're bottom
feeders and they filter the most water through them, they
create the most BMA toxin. And then shellfish like lobster
and crab because their bottom feeders get the most plastics

(40:14):
and toxic compounds in them. That used to be my
go to most favorite thing on a special occasion would
be to eat something like a lobster, But now I
know I wouldn't touch stuff because it's too contaminated. Better
off getting a tropical if you're gonna eat seafood, you're
better off being in Polynesia, you know, or Hawaii where
you're getting a wildfish that's not a farm race fish,
a while not a commercially race fish out of the

(40:36):
wild ocean.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
You know. Do you have to be mindful of the
you know what you ate ate? Okay? In other words,
the larger the animal, the more carnivorous, the more smaller
animals they eat, are they more toxic?

Speaker 3 (40:51):
That's true, And we always thought that that the carnivorous
larger fish like tune is in sharks and barracudas have
more mercury in them and more toxic metals and more PCBs,
so we do avoid those more more. But use that
led to the thinking that sardines and minnows were better
sources of Mega three because they're small. But the problem

(41:11):
with that is when you eat the small fish using
the digesta tract with the fish, and the Jester tract
is full of plastic microplastic particles and microplastic particles kind
of endocrine disruptors can increase risks of certain cancers like
breast cancer and direct as well. So if you're gonna
get so it's better for a mid range fish, a
mid size fish, not the big giant, but not the

(41:31):
tiny fish. We eat the whole digester track.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
We're gonna have to We're gonna have to take a
station break. I'm sorry. This is Mission Evolution www dot
Mission evolution dot org. Can food cure what ails you?
This is Mission Evolution, Mission evolution dot org. We're continuing
our discussion with the author of Eat for Life, doctor
Joel Furman. Doctor Furman, we talked about healing with foods.

(41:57):
But if you're correcting, I view, illness is imbalanced somewhere right,
If you're correcting a particular illness, are there particular prescription
foods that you.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
Use, I would say, so, I mean that's you know,
my most prescriptive food is eating raw green, cruciferous vegetables
and sprouts. Those are most prescriptives. And people can grow
sprouts in their own home and put it on their
broccoli sprouts and a foul for sprouts, and mung bean sprouts,

(42:27):
and garugula sprouts and radish spouts. You can grow into
a glass container, put the sprouts in, change the water
once or twice a day, and they grow. So I
give people One of my mantras is to say this
make the salad the main dish at one meal, because
raw vegetables have the most consistent and powerful association with
the reduction of cancers of all types. And you mix

(42:49):
in the in the salad, you're mixing lettuce, which green
lettuce is a superfood. It has the richest source of
soulful quinivos to support the growth of healthy bacteria in
the gut as well as it's all calcium is bioavailable
because there's no oxalic acid in lettuce. So we have
the lettuce mixed with the cruciferous green like arugula or
baby boxhoy or kale or something or cabbage. So we

(43:10):
have the we have those two mixed, and then the
third most important ingredient is onion or scallion raw because
when you chew the cruciferus vegetable and you chew the
scalon or onion in your mouth, the enzymes create these
anti cancer compounds in the mouth in proportional to how
well you chew. The nutrient that's shown to have the
most powerful effects on cancer and longevity in green vegetables

(43:34):
are called itcs, which stands for isothiocyanates, and they're not
in the vegetable until you chew it. So you break
open the bronch, you chew the brocolly, you choot the kale,
you show the erubuna. The itcs are formed in the
mouth from the chemical reaction that's occurring in your mouth
as you crush the cell wall and liberate the mirosnace enzyme.
The mirosis enzyme catalyzes the reaction, and the itcs are

(43:55):
formed in the mouth. The same thing people know when
they cut an onion. They cut an onion, your eescatera
from phoenic acid, forming these anti cancer sulfur based compounds,
so the anti cancer comosot form them when they're cut
or when they're chewed. If you had cooked it first,
you would deactivate the compounds. If you had cooked it
and then showed it, you wouldn't you deactivate the enzyme.
If you cook the overcooked the brocolia of the kale,
and then you chew it, you can deactivate the end compound.

(44:18):
So chewing it raw gives you the most benefits. That's
why urinary and blood isothio cyanates itcs show the best
correlation with lower rates of cancer compared to cruciferus vegetables
in the diet. You get more when you measure urinary itcs.
Then you're measuring to depersonate the cruciferus vegetables raw. And
did they chew it really well enough to increase the

(44:40):
levels of itcs in the body to the level high
enough to get the maxim anti cancer effects. The person
just like swallowing their salad with no attention to chewing
it well, or eating the broccoli or cabbage overly cooked,
is not going to have the same ITC level as
the person who's who's eating them raw or part or
conservatively cooked and chewing them real well, So yes, prescriptive

(45:02):
are the salad that were then putting a nut based
dressing on because of the nuts and seeds giving the
fat and the sterols to absorb the anti cancer phytochemicals
forty times as much compared to having the salad without
a fatty dressing on it. So it's yes, it's like
a prescriptive salad. And then are you having enough tables
when of ground flaxias a cheese seeds every day for

(45:23):
your source of these anti cancer ligninds that control esrogen
and pogesterone and proprote us to your production of steroids
in other words, and hormones. So yes, we prescriptive say that,
are you using the tables from the ground flaxies and
ground geesus sees or tea spoon at least in your diet? Actually,
you know, here's a study that showed it was so fascinating.
They took women with breast cancer and they followed it

(45:44):
for ten years, and they found that women who had
a third of a milligram of lignin in their diet,
their risk of death over the ten year period with
the ligand compared to not with it was seventy one
percent less to death from a third of a milligram
of Now, guess how many lignins are in a tea
spoon of ground flax seeds.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Quite a few.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
It sounds like seven milligrams. Seven the study, the women
who would reduce the risk of death only had a
third of one milligram average. We're talking about seven milligrams
and a tea stone. So we're saying that you'd be
crazy not to eat a teaspoon of flax seeds and
your salad and your soup and your morning breakfast cereal.
It's just so incredibly perfective or protective. See that the
diet I recommend, the nutritarian diet is extremely precisionally, it's

(46:30):
precision nutrition that's prescriptive with a salad every day. Are
you eating some berries or cherries every day? Right? Are
you eating? You are eat? Are you eating some beans
every day at least a half a cup of beans
a day? Are you eating at least an ounce and
a half of nuts of seeds a day? Are you
eating some scrub? Are you eating some cooked mushrooms every day?

(46:51):
Are you eating some nuar scalion every day? So these
prescriptive elements in the diet are more important whether you
had a little bit of animal product or not. That
wouldn't be as important whether you had the full gamut
of these powerful anti cancer foods. Right.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
So, you know, there's this real popular thing going on
right now. It's called green shakes. So they take all
this wonderful raw greens, but then you're not chewing them,
so you're losing a lot of the benefits. Is that accurate?

Speaker 3 (47:16):
No, Because when you chew it, if you put the
raw greens in the shake, the blender blades are going
to break open the cell wall and the chemical reaction
forming the itcs and the sulfur compounds from the onion
could take place in the blender instead of your mouth.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
Okay, So that they aren't They aren't going to be defunct.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Correct if you cooked it, If you cooked it too
much and then you blended it, you blow it. You
blow it's overcooking it. So when we make our soups,
for example, we'll take our kale or our collars and
we'll blend it in the blender raw all les a
little soup liquid in there, so we get a creamy
green puree and get the it ses in there, and
then we'll couart it the soup to cook because the
heat of the soup won't destroy the itcs. But if

(47:55):
I heat it up and then I blended it, they
weren't deformed. Orf I heat it up and then showed it,
I would have the activated the enzymes. So as long
as you blend it before you heat it, you keep
the enzymes in the anti cancer compounds intact.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Gotcha. So let's talk a little bit about food addictions,
because I'm sure a lot of our audience listening to
they're going back, okay, because it is not the it's
not the normal diet that we've all grown used to
that's killing all of us. So is there such a
thing as food addictions? And if so, what do you
do about them?

Speaker 3 (48:26):
You're absolutely one hundred percent correct that people are addicted
to the diet they're eating, and their brain gets neurologically
wired to like those foods and they don't want to
give anything up that a person listening to me speak
to you today could say, oh, this sounds scientific and
even interesting, but it's not for me. I could never
change the way I eat anyway. I like the way.
I'd rather die younger and just enjoy my life is

(48:48):
what they're going to say themselves. You know what I mean,
because that's the way the mind works, that the addict
comes up with rationalizations and excuses to continue self distructive behaviors.
And so the answer is, yes, we can design healthy
food to taste great. The recipes, the garlic, the all
the all the flavorings we're using, you know, to make
delicious things taste delicious. Yes, but there's a period of

(49:10):
adjustment where people have to learn to prefer healthy food
by just eating it, even if they don't like it
as much at the beginning, because you take it takes time.
We're talking about months for a person's taste preferences to change.
So it takes months to learn new recipes and to
have different and to retrain your taste buds. But also
the brain's desire to overeat. You know, we want people

(49:30):
to eat what they feel like eating. We want them
to instinctually feel comfortable with eating the right amount of food.
But when they're become an addict, they're craving excess amount
of food and excess hyperpalatable and excess stimulation, extra sugar
and extra salt and extra you know, they're just craving
all these things that they don't. They feel empty like
they could eat. They could have lunch with me and
have a big salad, a bowl of vegetable bean soup,

(49:53):
and a mango for dessert, and I'll feel wow, I
just had a great lunch. And they'll be saying, I
want to go eat. I can eat something a piece
of pieza.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Now I'm starving, yes, So where's the main course?

Speaker 3 (50:02):
Where's the bit? Where am I going to eat? The
brain didn't get anything, The brain didn't get enough stimulation.
That's when people come to our retreat. They stay here
for a couple for a month or two, when then
they realize over time they become satisfied and they like eating,
but at the beginning they're not satisfied with eating healthy.
It takes time to beat an addiction, any kind of addiction,
takes time to get over it.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
So that was going to be my next question. Is
when you're trying to get over a real serious addiction,
usually the best is to get away from your old
environment and go on a retreat or go into a
detoc center or whatever to get that started so that
you aren't fighting this the brain telling you no it's okay,

(50:39):
you know, you know, we're we need to eat this
because it tastes good or whatever the brain does. So
what do you suggest or what do you offer for
people that really want to get out of that junk
food addiction and eat more healthy and live longer, but
they're just caught in the loop. What do you have
to offer?

Speaker 3 (50:57):
I know, I know, I do have a retreat here
in San Diego and people come and stay here from
a month or two or three, So we do have that,
but I know most people can't afford that. They can't
take the time out of their life. So we do
have courses and motivational series of teaching modules on the website,
and we have coaches that can work with them, and
we have tough discussions and forums. People discuss with each

(51:20):
other and they can ask me questions through the web
and get my feedback. So we try to connect with people,
get them so they can connect with each other to
talk to and get more important motivation and information. In
their own homes, they can clean their house out, throw
away the junk, join us for our three day detops
where they need healthy for three weeks and see the
can get you jump started onto a healthy lifestyle. So yeah,

(51:40):
we're doing that and we try to do our best.
It doesn't work in every case. And for people that
need our help and more intensive, they can come out
and stay here too.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
I'm so glad you're offering that because you know, I
think food addiction is probably a larger problem than alcohol
at this point.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
It is. It's just we map people, so many people
getting more cancer rates, more cancer and young people and more.
You know, we're seeing that food is driving explosion of disease,
of tragedies, human tragedies.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Yeah, I know that I personally have experienced, and I've
never been much of a junk food person, but I've
personally experienced when I really pay attention to my diet,
surprising things happen. I mean, funny little symptoms that I
had will disappear, and the energy level goes up, and
what I thought was normal aging is not normal. So

(52:28):
what do you see as people can look forward to
if they do clean up their diet and go with
the recommended vegan plus the supplementation.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
You know, it's amazing that so many people who've done
this have reported that their brain fog lifted and they
not only have more energy, but they're able to think
more clearly and more creatively. So the interesting thing is
that people age and they don't realize as they're aging
their body and getting overweight and eating unhealthy, it's aging
the brain and they're losing their memory, creativity and passion

(52:58):
for living. So what I see come back is the excitement,
passion for life, their enjoyment of life and be able
to have creative goodwill for other people, and their connectiveness
and social aspects of having enjoying their life more so
as you would think people would say, oh, I'm just
going to eat recreational and I'd rather just don't care
what happens to me down the road, we're seeing the
opposite occurs. People get much more enjoyment and pleasure out

(53:20):
of their life when they take better care of their health.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
So is the brain fog from brain inflammation from the toxins?

Speaker 3 (53:28):
Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Man, killing yourself right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
And taking drugs too and legally prescribe medication you know
gives you. It affects brain function negatively.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
Well, it's almost time for us to call it good.
And I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you, doctor Herman,
what's your mission.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
My mission has always been because you can see I'm
so passionate excited about this. Is so everybody in the
United States knows that they don't have to be sick.
They don't have to have a heart attack, and don't
have to have a stroke, and don't have to get care.
Answer they can do what they want, but they should
at least know that there's a way they can get
their health back if they want to, and they want
them to know the power of nutritional excellence.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Well, that's a beautiful mission and so very much needed
right now. I just don't think we have with all
the pollution present and chemicals and this, and that we
have leslie way to indulge in less than healthy eating,
I would expect.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Well, unfortunately we are out of time, Doctor Furman, thank
you so much for coming on the show again, my pleasure.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
There's a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Our guest this hour has been doctor Joel Furman. Doctor
Furman is an internationally recognized expert on nutrition and natural
healing and the author of Eat for Life. If he'd
like to find out more about doctor Furman and all
the considerable things he has to offer, visit his website.
Doctor Furman dot com. This has been Mission Evolution with

(54:54):
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