Elliott Van Dusen is a retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police Corporal and the Corporate Director of Paranormal Phenomena Research & Investigation (PPRI), Nova Scotia’s oldest registered paranormal society. With over 15 years of experience in law enforcement and decades investigating the unexplained, Elliott brings a rare and credible voice to the study of paranormal phenomena. He has authored multiple books on the intersection of law enforcement and the paranormal and organized national symposiums and public education initiatives on unexplained phenomena. His work blends rigorous investigative methods with scientific inquiry to elevate public understanding of the paranormal.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to Mission Evolution Radio show with Gwildowaka, bringing together
today's leading experts to uncover ever deepening spiritual truths and
the latest scientific developments in support of the evolution of humankind.
For more information on Mission Evolution Radio with Gildawaka, visit
www dot Mission evolution dot org. And now here's the
(00:31):
host of Mission Evolution, Miss Gwildawieka.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to Mission Evolution, where we explore the spiritual and
scientific frontiers of human potential. I'm your host, Guildawyeka, and
today we'll step into the shadows of the unexplained with
Elliott van Duzen, director of the Paranormal Phenomenon Research and
Investigation Organization or ppri I dot net. From forensic investigation
(01:02):
to supernatural inquiry. A retired corporal in the Major Crime
Unit of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Elliott brings a
unique blend of science, logic, open minded exploration to one
of the human's oldest mysteries, life beyond the physical. Together,
we'll examine the fine line between science and supernatural and
(01:24):
look ahead to the twenty twenty five Halfhi's Paranormal Symposium
happening this November. Stay tuned you won't want to miss
a single moment of this enlightening journey into the unknown. Elliott,
thank you for joining us on Mission Evolution.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, thanks for having me back. I missed you last year.
Our schedules didn't allow for us to tee up there together,
but I'm happy to be back on Mission Evolution.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Well, I'm happy to have you here. I so love
your topic and your symposium. I wish I could come
see it myself. So what first drew you to explore
the world of paranormal phenomenon and how did that evolve
into the founding of the Paranormal Phenomena Research and Investigation
PPRII organization.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I get asked quite a bit whether or not
I had an experience that drew me into the paranormal,
But I give it credit to Unsolved Mysteries because I
knew I wanted to be a police officer, and I
knew that I specifically wanted to be a homicide detective.
So Unsolved Mysteries caught my attention with all their really
interesting coal cases. And then every once in a while
(02:30):
they throw in a UFO story or a ghost story,
and that also caught my attention. And then in nineteen
ninety seven, I discovered the television show The X Files,
but it had been on air since nineteen ninety three.
But I thought it was really interesting that you had
two law enforcement officers that were investigating claims of the supernatural,
and so I decided to start my nonprofit organization PPRII.
(02:54):
We started out by collecting local ghost stories and folklore,
which then into investigations. And when I moved to Halifax,
I met my colleague Darryl Walsh and teaching parapsychology courses
at the Nova Scotia Community College. So I enrolled in
those and after that the rest is history. I ended
(03:16):
up taking as many courses in the paranormal that I
could and ppr I now has been running for twenty
eight years doing investigations, research and educational activities.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
How does ppr I differentiate itself from other paranormal research
groups in terms of scientific methodology and professional standards.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, I have high expectations for my team, for sure.
One thing that we don't do is we're not a
proactive organization per se. If we have nothing on the goal,
one of my investigators wants to check out a location,
and I'm open to the idea. But for the most part,
where a react organization, much like law enforcement, would be
(04:03):
where you receive a call for service. We would receive
a call from a family that you know has an inquiry,
usually it's haunting related, and we'll conduct our interviews. We
do either a face to face interview or a video interview,
and you know, with my police training, especially in interviewing,
(04:26):
we look for non verbal cues. We look for, you know,
signs of mental health issues. We have a very thorough
questionnaire that we go forward with and then, depending on
our financial situation at the time, all authorize a full
field investigation because we don't charge our clients for money,
and investigations can be expensive. For example, we did one
(04:48):
this year and it was around two thousand dollars. We're
all volunteers. A lot of my volunteers work full time,
so they're donating their evenings and weekends and away from family.
We do a lot of funds, holding educational events and
selling merchandise. I donate all the proceeds from the sales
of my books back into the organization so that it
doesn't cost the public any money to use our services.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
With your background in law enforcement, how I've investigative and
forensic skills translated into your paranormal work.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Well, besides interviewing, I've also taken a stricter stance on
handling evidence, for example. So normally what we do after
an investigation is everybody will turn in their equipment, whether
that's a camera, memory card, digital recorder, it will go
to one person, usually our professional photographer, to then download, analyze,
(05:44):
and upload all the information to our secure shared drive.
That's certainly one aspect. The other one is certainly I
look at safety issues. I never send any of my
investigators alone. I'll always send at least two for safety reasons.
We actually just created a new policy as well that
(06:07):
when we all go our separate ways from an investigation
or an event, they have to message the lead investigator
to let them know that they've arrived home safely. So
we do take all that very seriously.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
What danger do you expect them to run into?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Well, it could be anything, you know. My wife and
I just traveled to Fredericton and Monkton, New Brunswick to
promote the Halifax perm Rome Symposium. We ended up getting
a flat tire on the way and we're sidelined for
about an hour, so I stayed in touch with Chris
styles UFO researcher that was also going to be presenting. Yeah,
let them know I was still on scheduled to be there,
(06:46):
but I wouldn't have as much prep time as I had,
So you never know, you know, what could happen to
you on the way home, especially a lot of times
we'll leave events very late at night, especially for doing
a public ghost hunt. They usually run from six pm
to ten pm, so lots of wildlife in Nova Scotia
on those highways, you just never know what you'll run into.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Literally. So any view, what constitutes credible evidence of paranormal
activity and how does pp R I ensure that the
investigations remain unbiased and verifiable.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, there's certainly a lot of bias that you have
to worry about. You know. I'm a believer in the paranormal.
I call myself a critical believer because I do try
and look at every explanation before saying that I, you know,
I can't understand this or that this is a true anomaly.
But we do use some scientific equipment, such as electromagnetic
(07:47):
fuel radiation detectors to look for unshielded wires. I always
tell everyone when we're giving an educational event that you know,
it's not a ghost detector like you would see on TV.
There's actually no piece of equipment that can the tech
ghosts or human consciousness, not even medical equipment for for
that reason. But you know, we use things like the
(08:08):
EMF device to check to see if there's unshielded wires
or excessive amounts of radiation coming from an electronic device,
because we know through scientific research and the laboratories, especially
the work of the late doctor Michael Persinger, that when
somebody's temporal lobes are exposed to excessive amounts of EMF
(08:29):
radiation that they can start to feel that like they're
being watched. They can have auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, and
it can mimic symptoms of a haunting. So we do use,
you know, regular tools that would be used by trades
trades people to check for environmental anomalies.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Many many critics dismiss paranormal research as a pseudoscience. How
do you respond to skeptics who claim that the phenomenon
like hauntings or psychic activity can be by psychology or coincidence.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I can see the argument to call parapsychology, which is
the scientific study of extrasensory perception or your psychic abilities.
Mind matter interaction or psychokinesis the ability to manipulate objects
or your environment with your mind. And survival research, which is,
you know, your near death experiences, your ghosts and hauntings.
(09:27):
But parapsychology is actually a social science because we're studying
people's experiences, so it is a soft science. I can understand,
you know, the physicists and biologists, chemistists why why yeah, chemistists,
why they are frustrated with parapsychology because a lot of
(09:49):
it is very spontaneous and it just happens when you
least expect it, and it's very hard to replicate, especially
the type of work that I do in field investigations,
so I totally un understand that we actually try and
replicate stuff as well in haunting situations. Just a quick example,
I had a cast iron pot which is not supposed
(10:09):
to give off electromagnetic radiation. It was sending our EMF
reader absolutely crazy. So the first thing I did, obviously
is look around. There's no outlets, there's no lights near it.
That's causing this to happen. It wouldn't stop. As soon
as I lifted the lid off the cast iron pot,
it stopped, put the lid back on, tried to replicate it.
We couldn't. Not saying that event is paranormal, but that
(10:32):
was certainly an anomaly that we caught in the environment
that we couldn't replicate. That's one small example from an
actual haunting case.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
What are some of the most compelling cases that pp
ri I has investigated that defy conventional explanation.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Well, one of my favorite ones is probably the first
time I think that I ever experienced a paranormal was
way back in two thousand and four, contacted by a
family that had just purchased eighty two year old home
in Kentville, Nova Scotia, and they said that they were
seeing a female apparition walk down their stairwell, They were
having pennies materialize in their home, they saw the ghost
(11:15):
of one of their basset hounds that had passed away,
and they were seeing images show up in photographs. So
certainly had quite a bit of phenomena that they were reporting.
Conducted an interview with them. There was no self disclosed
or notable mental health issues. They seem reliable, so we
sent a small team of four investigators down to the home,
(11:38):
and the first night we did get a strange emf
reading by the stairwell where they would see the apparition
come down. We would later discover on a second investigation
that that was due to unshielded wires, so we did
make the recommendation that they would fix that to avoid
possible electrical fire. But that one night, around five am,
(12:00):
I asked one of my investigators to go check the
videotape and the battery camera. This is back before cell phones,
and you had the big, clunky, you know, video recorder
with the VHS tapes in it. And sure enough, around
five o'clock in the morning when he went to go check,
Penny had appeared by the base of the tripod and
(12:21):
the husband and the two daughters had gone to bed
several hours before. The only way that you could get
into the kitchen was you would have to walk by us,
the investigators. We were all situated in the living room
with the wife, so nobody had walked by us. The
wife hadn't got up and gone into the kitchen. And
like I said, we would check it every hour on
the hour and we couldn't explain that. The second time
(12:45):
we went back to the house, it certainly confirmed that
there was something unusual going on there. One of my
investigators was outside with night vision and could actually see
a shadow moving in one of the upstairs bedroom. So
of course it gets on the radio and asks whether
or not any of us are upstairs, but none of
us were, so he decided to go upstairs and check it.
(13:05):
When he opened the bedroom door, he saw the female
apparition of a little girl standing on the bed. Once
he composed himself, he got on the radio and called
us upstairs to come take a look, But by that
time the apparition had disappeared. There was just a drape
that he said had fluttered from like hanging from the ground,
(13:26):
fluttered up to lay on the bed. And we had
an EMAF reader that was giving off high EMF readings
at that time, again not near any electrical outlets. The
room was ice cold. I had never felt cold like
that until years later when I was on Major Crimes
up in Yellowknife and we got called.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
We're gonna have to We're gonna have to leave a
cliffhanger because it's time for a station break. Elliott and
I will return very shortly, so don't go away. This
is Mission Evolution www dot Mission evolution dot org. How
does paranormal investigation work with us? This hour discussing the
science behind paranormal investigation is Elliot van Dersen, the director
(14:09):
of Paranormal Phenomenon Research and Investigation Organization. Elliot, So that
is the question. Can you walk us through a typical
investigation process from initial contact to final report? And what
safeguards do you use to prevent contamination or bias?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah? Sure, Just to quickly finish that story too before
the break. I never felt cold in that room until
years later when I was on major crimes with the
RCMP and we had to go to none of it
to help none of it RCMP, And it was like
minus fifty out and when you walked outside, your eyes
(14:49):
would instantly freeze and you can actually pull ice off
your eyelashes. So very very unusual experience in that house.
So certainly with the pennies materializing and Adam seeing the apparition, yeah,
that was just something that we couldn't explain as far
as you know, preventing contamination, I think the big thing
(15:14):
is and we always teach people this when we do
public ghost hunts is limiting the number of people that
are there. I just noticed in the last little while
when clients are contacting us and it's the day of
the investigation, they're they're messaging it and we're calling and
they're like, hey, our friends are really interested in this,
(15:34):
like they want to know if they could pop over
and take a look. I always say, well, they can
come over to meet the team like when we get there,
but then after that they have to go. I look
at it the same as like a police would with
the crime scene. You're not going to just invite a
ton of people with the public and the media to
come tramping through your crime scene. It's the same with
(15:54):
with an investigation. The more people that are there, then
the more contamination that can happen, whether that's noise, contamination, biases,
you know, different different things like that. So we do
try and contain the scene. We always let the homeowner
stay there because I understand, you know, you don't want
four or five strangers that you have no idea, you know,
(16:16):
tramping through your home and going through your bedroom and
like all your your personal space. So you know that
makes sense, and certainly knowing how to use your equipment
is important. I always sometimes there's pieces of equipment that
we don't use a whole lot that I'll have to
brush up on the manual before we use it, because
we want to make sure that the settings are correct
(16:39):
and that you're not getting you know, false readings and
things like that that can contaminate your investigation.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
How does technology such as the electromagnetic sensors, infrared cameras
or audio analysis enhance your ability to detect or document anomalies.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah. So one EMAF reader that we use is called
the GQ three ninety and I like that one. It's
a bit of a higher end model, but I do
like it because it'll actually record all the data for
you on the device and then you can plug it
into a laptop later download the data and you'll have
your chart of the recordings all captured for you, rather
(17:20):
than have your notebook and have to you know, write
down master bedroom readings were between this and this. So
certainly technology has advanced ghost investigations. Thermometers. We do have
a flur camera, which is a forward infrared looking camera
thermal camera. Really nice. You know, I always do a
demonstration with the public. I'll show them the wall and
(17:42):
it'll just be cold. I'll put my hand on there
for two seconds and pull it away and then put
the thermal camera on and you'll actually see the heat
from my hands still on the wall. So I got
that because during an investigation and exeter, I saw a
dorknob turned three force of the way on me when
I was in a little boys room and the mom
was downstairs. I opened the door up and there's nobody
(18:04):
behind it, and I thought to myself, Oh, that would
have been so nice to have the thermal camera, you know,
to check and see if there was some sort of
handprint on there. Same with footsteps as well. Because your
shoes are a bit different, it won't leave as much
of a heat signature, but if you're in bare feet,
for sure it'll leave a really good signature. So you
(18:25):
just never know. It's certainly a positive tool to have
in your toolbox. And the last new piece of equipment
that we bought were body cameras because I've heard so
many stories of, like we said earlier, the paranormal so
spontaneous that it can happen at any point in time.
And we were doing an investigation once and a team
(18:45):
before us had been there the night before, and apparently
a phone, old rotary phone that's not plugged in, not
connected to anything, rang on them while they were at
this museum. And I said, oh my god, tell me
that they got it on video or something, and the
curator said, no, we were all in a different room.
We just heard it ring ran in and that's it.
(19:07):
And I thought to myself, I'm like, you know what,
being a former law enforcement officer, I wonder how much
body warn cameras cost. And I went on Amazon, and
you know what, you can get pretty decent ones. The
ones we use are bob Lof Bob Lov and they're
actually not that expensive. They last for about twelve hours,
so almost like a law enforcement shift. And I figure,
(19:29):
you know what, at the start of our investigation, we'll
put it on where for the whole investigation. That way,
if something happens, perhaps maybe you'll just at least catch
the audio. And sure enough, just a couple of weeks ago,
my team were investigating a haunted house in Dartmouth. They
had set up a service bell upstairs and something was
ringing the service bell when there was nobody upstairs, and
(19:51):
they managed to catch that on the body Warren Camera's audio.
So you know it paid off in dividends right there.
So do you.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Believe that paranormal activity is more about energy and consciousness
than disembodied spirits, and if so, what implications does that
have for science and spirituality?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I think it's a mix. I think that. So, you
know what I believe. I subscribe to the survival theory
in parapsychology. So what parapsychologists believe is that when we
die from our physical body, our human consciousness somehow survives.
Doctor Sampirina with New York University has done two different
(20:38):
studies of people that are terminal, and they have permission
to bring those people back. And what he can say
is what we'd like to saying law enforcement is beyond
a reasonable doubt. He can say that the human consciousness
can survive outside the physical body for at least three hours.
And he knows that from the studies that he has
done and from recollections of people that had died been
(21:01):
brought back and have provided accurate information that was corroborated.
But I also know from parapsychology that without a physical body,
the only thing that they have is their consciousness, their
personality or what we call the mind, and it has
to somehow interact with the physical environment on our plane,
(21:24):
so we call that psychokinesis or mind matter interaction. So
they have to use that in order to open doors,
create knocks, different things like that. The movie Ghosts is
a great example of that, when the sleazy coworker was
sitting next to Demi Moore and he was trying to
put some moves on her and Patrick Swayze gets upset
(21:44):
and jumps over the couch and knocks over that picture.
He realizes that he was able to affect the physical environment,
so he goes back to the subway station and talks
to the ghosts. That really knows how to use psychokinesis,
And for that movie, they actually did quite a bit
of research and tried to make it as accurate as possible.
So you know, that's a that's a Hollywood example.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
How does PPR I balance scientific method with the more
intuitive or metaphysical side of paranormal research.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, we do do that because I do have a
medium on my team, Jody Russell, and I've worked with
her on a few different cases and she has provided
information which has really impressed me or wowed me, and
other times we just can't corroborate it. But Jody has
(22:37):
provided some information on some cases that we have been
able to corroborate. An example of that, I just presented
a case to the Society for Scientific Explorations forty third
Annual Conference about one of our investigations up in Amherst.
And one of the things that she had talked about
was where the family's dog was barking and acting very strange.
(23:01):
She felt that there was a male presence that had
died from a heart condition there, that he lived at
the residence. He died at the residence and it was
heart related. About two days later, the family had a
historian in town doing research on their property and they
had found a death record for John William Stevenson that
(23:21):
lived at that address and had died at that address
from a heart condition. And we don't tell Jody any
information before we go to the investigation, so we use
a blind protocol where she has absolutely no information about this.
So she wouldn't have been able to do research on
(23:42):
this beforehand because she didn't know the address, she didn't
know any names involved, you know, So we do try
and balance that out and anything that she gets that
we can't prove, Like that's a really good example of
something we could prove. Then we included in what I
call subjective evidence because we have no way to scientifically
(24:04):
prove it, so we classify that under subjective and we
let other people, you know, decide what they want to believe.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
In your research, how much influence do you believe human
perception has on paranormal experience?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Well, certainly I do. It does play, you know, a
large factor. I also find, you know, if somebody has
been living in a location for a long time and
perhaps it is haunted, they start to get what my
colleague Daryl Walsh is nicknamed the kitchen sink syndrome, where
(24:45):
everything that seems to be happening in the home kind
of gets blamed on the paranormal. We were literally interviewing
a lady at a house once and she thought she
heard a noise and she's like, did you guys hear that?
And there was like four or five of us at
the table, and none of us heard anything. And we
just looked at her and said, no, I didn't hear anything.
And then she's just like, oh, okay, I thought I
(25:07):
heard something. That's an example of where somebody has just
been primed in a location for so long that they
may be biased or jumping to conclusion. So you do
run into that, which you can make your investigation slightly
more difficult if you've got one of those true believer
clients and you're there to try and give that rational
(25:30):
explanation on what's happening.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Do you think fear or expectation can actually manifest certain
phenomenon or alter how we interpret and explained events.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah, I think so, especially the expectation part. I always
talk about the Phillips experiment that occurred in Toronto in
the nineteen seventies. It was a group of paranormal researchers
that would attend their office every day and they wanted
to try and create their own Poultergeist. So they came
up with this fictional character named Philip, and every day
(26:05):
they'd come in they talked to Philip, and eventually they
started to have raps occur on their table to answer
questions that they would ask, so literally they were able
to create their own Poultergeist case. So I do think that,
you know, human expectation can play a role, and fear
(26:26):
as well can play a role. I know a lot
of people will fear the unknown, you know, which makes sense.
Humans are behavioral creatures and when things are uncertain or unknown,
it makes us uneasy. So yeah, certainly I think that
both of those things can affect somebody's perception.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Has there ever been an investigation that fundamentally changed your
personal belief system or understanding of reality.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Well, it would have to be the Exeter case for sure.
That case really right. There was just so much activity
that I had witnessed, a witness that flies materializing out
of nowhere. The home would just be loaded with these
house flies, almost like the movie Amityville Whore. I heard
three distinct footsteps approach me when it was just myself
(27:19):
and the homeowner there. Fire alarms went off on their
own accord and would only be turned off if they
were splashed with holy water. And we checked with Kitty,
the brand that makes the fire alarm, and they couldn't
figure out why that would have happened. There was a
strange message that had appeared on an iPhone and Apple
(27:40):
had no explanation for why the iOS software would have
responded like that. So it was a kind of a
really nasty entity that was picking on the homeowner and
the kids. So I know every time I'd returned to Canada,
I'd go down the Rhode Island for a couple of weeks.
Do the investigation come back to Canada. I know I
ended up starting to go back to church. I come
(28:02):
from a Roman Catholic background, so I started to go
into church there for a little while, and you know,
really thinking things over and really understood why you shouldn't
provoke things, because when I was down there, I was
doing some religious provocation things and getting responses might not
(28:23):
necessarily be right away like in the movies, but at
least twenty four hours later we would guess a response.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And well it's time for time for another station break,
Ellien and I will be right back to continue our discussion,
So please stay right there. This is Mission Evolution www
dot Mission evolution dot org. Ken ghosts make you sick?
This is Mission Evolution, Mission evolution dot org. With this
(28:50):
discussing the observer effect of paranormal investigation is Elliott van
Dusen pp r I dot net. Elliott. Many investigators describe
feeling physically or emotionally drained after an investigation. Have you
experienced any personal effects from long term exposure to this
kind of work.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Oh yeah, the the Exeter case, it had a very
oppressive feeling in the home and there were times where
you felt very lethargic, no energy, almost very like depressed.
And you know, we'd say that to the homeowner, like
(29:32):
let's take a break, you know, let's get out of here,
go for lunch or something, And as soon as you
started to drive away from the home, you immediately felt better.
You were wide awake again and you know, certainly feeling
feeling better. I know, when they brought a medium into
the house once to kind of do a house cleansing
as well, the father had to sit down. He was
(29:54):
sick to his stomach, felt like he was gonna puke. So, sir,
I do believe that it could have some physiological and
psychological effects. You know, through case studies, we know that
there's been people reporting oppression, depression, isolation type behaviors. So yeah,
(30:16):
that's certainly an interesting mystery within a mystery on how
that can happen.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So what's your take on psychic mediums and their role investigations.
Can intuition and evidence coexist in the same field?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, I mean I think I gave a couple of
examples earlier in the show there with Jodie. You know,
I think if you had the right person that knows
how to use their skill set, then it can be
very valuable. Certainly, your job as an investigator is you
have to try and corroborate that information. For example, we
(30:54):
just came back from Ottawa House Museum this past weekend
and there was a lady that was obviously quite intuitive,
and she was asking me how we would get information
if PP or I were to investigate, how do we
get information historical information about this place? And I said, well,
what's your question? And she said, well, I kept sensing
(31:16):
that there was a soldier in this house that had
an injury to his stomach, and he was basically alluding
to her that he had been awarded at this position
and he didn't really deserve the position, and something happened,
whether somebody turned on him and injured him or he
injured himself. And I said, well, I said, we did
(31:38):
ask for a knowledgeable historian to be on staff tonight
to answer questions, so let's go talk to them. And
they didn't have any information about a soldier dying at
the property, but they said that soldiers would stay at
the Ottawa House Museum quite frequently because it would sometimes
be used as like an inn or a stopover. So
(31:59):
it was, you know, was quite possible. So in that
case you couldn't really corroborate it and say, you know,
one way or the other. But then when we looked
at the Amhers case where the gentleman had died of
the heart attack, lived at the property, died at the property,
and then we found the death record that says, yes,
this guy lived at the property and did die at
the property, because they had the location of death on there.
(32:21):
You know, that's that's corroborated. That's that's pretty substantial. So
I do think that it's valuable. Just unfortunately, sometimes you
just can't find that corroborative information. It's not like on
TV where they've given you the name and the date
of birth and check underneath this, you know, this floorboard
and you'll find the body. It's usually not that detailed. Unfortunately,
(32:43):
you've got to do some some work.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
How does pp R I collaborate with other international research
organizations or universities.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yeah, so, well, in Nova Scotia, I reached out to
all of our psychology and sociology departments at the Universe,
and I let them know that we exist because I
know sometimes when people are out there and they need help,
they don't know who to turn to, so sometimes they
do turn to universities, especially the psychology So I have
(33:14):
done that. I've actually reached out to the head of
the Catholic Church for Nova Scotia as well and let
them know that we exist. I did get a response
from them, just thanking them for our letter and letting
him know that we exist. Also with other scientists. For example,
(33:34):
we had one case where I realized that it was
mental health and not so much the paranormal. I mean,
maybe there was paranormal activity happening, but the primary concern
was mental health issues. And I realized that she needed
to speak to a clinical parapsychologist, which is a practicing
(33:55):
psychiatrist or psychologist that has an understanding in parapsychology but
is also licensed to help. So I reached out to
doctor Jim Horan in Texas because our client was in Texas,
and he ended up being able to assist in that investigation.
We were able to provide him with all of our disclosure,
(34:16):
everything that we collected. The statements the photographs, of course,
with the client's consent, and he ended up publishing in
the Frontiers of Psychology, a peer reviewed journal, about our
case and thanked Paranormal Phenomenal Research and Investigation for their
thorough investigative work and contributing to writing that article. So
(34:41):
we do certainly work with other researchers out there and
also local universities and colleges.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You've emphasized ethics and professionalism in the field. Why is
that so vital to maintaining the credibility of paranormal research.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, it's funny. I was actually for part of the
Halifax Paranormal Symposium. I noticed on Facebook my press release
got shared and I was going through the comments and
reading it, and a lot of the comments were from
non believers and and naysayers and stuff like that, and
it's it's funny because obviously the stigma around the paranormal
(35:21):
still exists. I haven't seen it for a while, I guess,
mostly because the people that I hang out with are believers,
I would assume, so even if they're skeptical, I mean
that they're still somewhat open minded. But clearly that shows
that there's still stigma involved with the with the paranormal.
So you know, certainly, we we take everything serious. We
(35:45):
we use the scientific method, We try and corroborate as
much as we can, we use scientific tools. If it's
something is outside of our expertise, then we will contact,
you know, somebody else, like in the case with needing
a clinical parapsychologist. I do have a psychiatrist on my
(36:06):
staff now, doctor Craig Goss. He just joined us about
a year ago actually, so it's really nice to have
him on staff because he's a practicing psychiatrist and any
case that has even a hint of mental health I
usually assign him to. So it's really fascinating. We're actually
going to be doing a study here because he believes
(36:27):
that people that experienced the paranormal are going to score
higher on the association skill. And I always tell people,
you know, when I'm talking you, you're getting bored and
you tune me out. That's a form of dissociation. But
another good example is you know when you leave work
and all of a sudden, you're pulling into your driveway
and you're like, oh my god, how did I get here?
I don't remember driving home for the last half hour.
(36:49):
That's also dissociation. Your minds you know, left so to speak,
and you were operating on autopilot. So it's not necessarily
a bad thing, but it's, you know, something that we're
curious about and doing our own research on.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
In your opinion, what direction does the next generation of
paranormal investigators need to take if this field is ever
to be accepted by mainstream science.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, certainly. I think that education is important, and there's
not a ton of places to get education. I know,
academics are trying to do a lot of citizen scientists programs,
so they're trying to have mentors. Scientists are trying to
mentor amateurs that you know, are interested in this and
(37:38):
teach them best methods and best practices to do investigations
because they do realize that, you know, people are really
interested in the paranormal and they're out there trying to
collect audio clips and photographs, and there's a lot more
amateurs out there than there are professionals doing fieldwork, so
they do realize that, you know, they are collecting valuable data.
(38:01):
So if there's a way that they can teach them
to do it without it being contaminated or that it's
you know, not another phenomena like audio paradolia or visual paradolia.
Then you know certainly that that is bringing credibility to
the field. We operate our Parapsychological Education Center, which is
(38:22):
an online paranormal course place that you can take courses,
and I try and get different experts to teach different courses.
So for example, when we do our investigating UFO course,
I get Chrys Styles. He's been investigating UFOs for over
thirty years. You know, there's no person better to teach
(38:44):
that course than him. Darryl and I usually teach the
parapsychology course. That's all we've done for the last thirty years.
So we try and get experts and even introduction to demonology.
I'll get religious religious experts to come out of the students,
and of course when we do the student feedback, they
all find that very valuable. So there's only a few different,
(39:06):
you know, institutions out there. US the Ryan Education Centers
another valuable asset, and then universities usually do like a
one off course. I've taken like a witchcraft course from
University of Ottawa. So you really have to look look
around for education. But I think educating yourself and knowing
(39:27):
you know what the tools do, having best practices and policies.
I think all that is very, very valuable to the
next generation.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
How is public interest in the paranormal involved in the
last decade and what do you think how what do
you think fuels the current surge and curiosity and media coverage.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Well, I mean, we're always interested in ghosts, even skeptics.
I always always laugh, like if if you run into
somebody that's skeptical, you know, they might not be a believer,
but I notic once you start telling a true ghost story,
they can't help but go quiet and listen. So certainly
even the skeptics are interested in it. So I just
(40:11):
think it's something that we're all fascinated and we all
love a good ghost story or something unexplained. We find
it entertaining. You know, we do a lot of the
public ghost hunts, but we do it a little bit differently.
I bring like an educational aspect to it, so I
can almost I can almost guarantee. I guess I'd have
(40:34):
to take a few other people's you know, public ghost hunts,
but I can almost guarantee Pears is different, just because
we do bring that credibility to it where we explain
to them what the tools are actually for, we talk
about the research that's been done, and they walk away with,
you know, some valuable educational knowledge. So I do think that,
(40:56):
you know, that's certainly one aspect.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
What role do you see media, radio, television and podcasts
playing and either helping or harming legitimate research into the
unexplained phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Well, positives of radio shows and television and you know,
podcast is that you're getting the information out there. You know,
the downside would be whether or not it's a credible
information or not, you know, So, I mean, I guess
it would be up to the podcast hosts or the
producers to do their their background check on who they
(41:33):
have on their show if they are worried about credibility
on the show. But it's certainly a quick way to
get information out there that a lot of people listen
to podcasts. I know it's helped us. We sometimes get
people emailing us saying, hey, I heard you on the
X Zone or you know, I know one year, I
(41:53):
was looking for information about the Weston Hotel. Darryl and
I had always heard it was hot to downtown Halifax,
but nobody had any stories. Daryl didn't have any in
his books, Steve Vernon didn't have any in his ghost books,
Vernon Oukel didn't have any in his even went as
far back as Helen Creighton, the original folklorest that started
(42:15):
the ghost craze in Nova Scotia, and she didn't have
anything there. But after doing some social media posts, we
were getting a few different people that had previously worked
there that were sharing their experiences with us. So certainly,
you know it has a very beneficial aspect to it.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
We're going to have to take another station break. Please
stay with us. Is Elliot and I continue to explore
supernatural inquiry. This is Mission Evolution, Mission evolution dot org.
Where can a person learn about paranormal investigation? This is
Mission Evolution, missionevolution dot org. We're continuing our discussion with
Elliott Vndusen, director of pp ri I dot net. Elliott,
(42:57):
let's talk about the two thousand and five Paranormal Symposium.
What can attendees expect from the event.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yeah, I'm very excited about this. This is our third
annual Halifax Paranormal Symposium. We realize that there's not a
whole lot of paranormal conferences in Canada, and so we
wanted to bring something back to Canada and it had
to be a mix of educational information, academic, but also
(43:29):
entertainment because I've found when things are too academic, you
start to lose the general population. So we've kind of
found a happy medium. I would say, because we're into
our third year, this is so far our best year.
I think we only have like ninety five seats left
at a two hundred, and we still have a month
to go. November first is when the symposium is taking
(43:52):
place on Saturday, November first at the Halifax Tower Hotel
and Conference Center and Beyers Lake, Nova Scotia. It'll be
from nine to six. I have five guest speakers coming.
I have doctor Yanna Greenberg talking to us about ancient
astronauts or aliens. I have Tony Rathman coming to talk
to us about electronic voice phenomena. And then after lunch,
(44:15):
she's actually going to do a live demonstration with his
device that he's developed. It's called Statacom, and he believes
that you can talk to the dead in real time,
and he did a demonstration with myself and doctor Yanna.
We were asking questions about the afterlife. We weren't really
getting any answers that we wanted, But all of a sudden,
(44:36):
I said to Yana, why don't you speak Russian to them,
because she speaks Russian. And when she did, the voices
on the other end started to make fun of Russians
and told her that Russia Russian wasn't a real language,
and it was kind of funny. She kind of upset
Doctor Yanna because she's very proud of her Russian heritage.
But I thought it was interesting because it doesn't use
radio signals or anything like that. So the conversation and
(45:00):
became relevant at that point. So it'll be really interesting
at the symposium. If you buy your general emission ticket,
you'll possibly get picked because in the workshop we're going
to pick people out of the crowd to come up
on stage and talk into Statacom and perhaps you'll get
a message that means something to you. We also have
Brian Baker coming from Toronto. He's a journalist. He's going
(45:21):
to talk to us about his experience with cryptozoology. And
we also have my investigator Pierre Phillitrow is going to
come and talk to us about Wiji boards. And then
we have the CEO of Paraflex, which I call the
Netflix of the paranormal at a streaming service that just
(45:41):
streams paranormal shows. Natalie Jones is going to come talk
to us about awakening your higher self and energy, healing,
positive energy and intentions. So really looking forward to the
lineup this year. I try and change the guest speakers
and the topics every year, so you just never know
what you're going to get.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
What inspired you to create the symposium and how has
it grown since its inception?
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Yeah, it's it's still a one day event. I'm hoping
next year we can move it to a two full
day event. We've also incorporated some workshops this year which
were very popular. We've got a ghost Hunt at Alexander
Keith Brewery which sold out very quickly, and we also
are doing a World Laura Warren Live. She's a medium workshop,
(46:35):
and again we limited that to forty people and that
sold out as well. So I'm hoping next year we
can expand to two full days. So we've certainly almost
grown to that point, which is which is really good
because the first year when I did this, I funded
the entire thing out of my own pocket. We had
(46:55):
a few sponsors that donated cash, but I took a
big risk by funding it out of my own pocket
and you know, out of the nonprofits pocket. So it's
a risk that obviously has has paid off for us
and it's something that we're able to to keep going.
So my main goal was to create awareness, you know,
(47:16):
of these paranormal topics and also provide a safe space
for people to come. Like I said, I you know
saw that social media post a lot of naysayers on
there and making fun of the paranormal. But everyone that
comes to the Paranormal Symposium can't believe. They look around
and there's like over one hundred other people that have,
you know, the same thoughts that they do, and and
(47:37):
they feel like they're part of a community and and
like mindedness. And I love that aspect about the symposium.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Have you ever had any paranormal events happen at a symposium?
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Not yet know the year? Yeah, maybe it is the year.
Uh No. The Halifax Paranormal Symposium is held at the
Halifax Tower Hotel. It's a fairly new hotel. It's only
been an operation i'd say for four years. It's got
sixteen floors, it's beautiful. The owner spared no expense, it's
(48:12):
all like tile and it's just a gorgeous venue. So
as far as I know, they they haven't had any
haunting issues or anything like that, not like some of
the older hotels in Halifax.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Have you found in your investigations that sometimes the expectation
of the people that are investigating actually create a phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
No, you know what, I haven't run into that. I
have run into people though, that have contacted us, and
you know, initially, like we always asked the client, like,
what do you expect out of this investigation? And they always,
you know, say that they're either looking for validation from
a third party that they're not crazy. Some people might
(49:02):
say that they're hoping that the phenomena stops. We always
tell them we can't guarantee that, because nobody can. But no,
for the most part, I think the worst we've run
into is when we've found an explanation that's not paranormal
and we're trying to tell them that and they don't
want to hear that. They were almost hoping that we
(49:23):
would come in and confirm that their place is haunted.
So that obviously is a little bit difficult because you're
dealing with a difficult client.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Do you have provision to clear out a house if
if you do find it haunted.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
I get Jodie to do like house cleansing, so she
uses like sage and and goes around and does you
know a house cleansing. We do have some religious advisors,
not in Nova Scotia. I got two in Ontario, one
in Rhode Island. If it was something more or you
know a Roman Catholic family or Catholic family wanted that
(50:03):
kind of blessing, we do have that capability, but I
always explain to people like, we can't guarantee that to
get rid of the activity. And I always equate it
to my policing days. You know, if you have an
unwanted guest in your house, you can do one of
three things. You can ask them to leave, You can
grab them and throw them out, or you can call
them mounties and we'll come do it for you. But
(50:25):
in the spiritual world, that person doesn't have a physical body,
so you can ask the person to leave, or like
a lady told me this past weekend, they had to
say our master bedroom was off limits. They always felt
like they were being watched in the master bedroom, so
they said, you know, master bedrooms off limits. Go go
(50:46):
elsewhere in the house. And that's it. That's all we
can do is ask because there's no proton packs, there's
no Ghostbusters, there's no containment unit, you know, so all
you can do is ask and try. But ultimately we
just don't have that capability to make the activity stop.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
What is role does the symposium play and bringing credibility,
collaboration and education to the paranormal research community in Canada
and abroad.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Well, certainly we've had we've had some really you know,
good quality guest speakers over the past three years. We've
had John Kruth was one of my favorites. He's the
executive director of the Ryan Research Center, so we had
him last year. He came. He spoke to us about psychokinesis,
(51:39):
particularly electronics. Psychokinesis so people that can affect computer systems.
You know, some people say, oh, computers hate me. All
sit in front of it and I get the blue
screen of death all the time. Well, John's actually done
research and showing that there are some people that give
off energy and photons that do affect electronics. So, you know,
(52:02):
I think bringing in some credible speakers and other really
you know, credible and interesting gentleman that we brought in
was doctor Richard Gallagher, who's a psychiatrist down in the
US that believes in demonic possession. So certainly bringing in
those types of guest speakers that have the background and
(52:23):
the education and the credibility to come to Halifax and
present their work, certainly I think boasts the credibility of
the symposium. My my volunteers all come, my investigators all come.
They volunteer their time for the symposium, and people always
find them so friendly and helpful, and you know, I
(52:45):
try and bring some comedic relief too when I'm there.
I know, our first year, we were having a terrible
time with the sound system and I kept making some
jokes and stuff like that, and on the on our survey,
people were saying, you know, the poor guy, like he
did his best. It wasn't his fault, it's the hotel
sound system. But he was entertaining and wish we would
have heard more from him. He seemed like he had
(53:06):
so much knowledge that he could have shared. So then
for our second year, I decided to speak there so
that I talked about law enforcement and the paranormal. So
we do listen to feedback that we get about the symposium,
and we do try and accommodate that.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
So, finally, what message do you want attendees and the
general public to take away from the twenty twenty five
Halifex Paranormal Symposium about the future of paranormal science and
the evolution of human consciousness?
Speaker 3 (53:37):
You know what, I think the message if somebody attends
there this year and they walk away just to walk
away thinking, you know, with an open mind of what
they just heard, if they're skeptical, to know that they're
not alone, that there, you know, is a community out
there right here in their own neighborhood that has an
(53:58):
interest in this, and to know that, you know, our
organization ppr I is out there doing credible research and
education events and that we're available to assist as well
if them or somebody they know is being affected or
has questions about the supernatural? And one answers.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Do you find that the very existence of someone that's
trying to credibly look at paranormal gives people hope that
they aren't losing their mind if they do have an experience.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
Yeah, oh yeah, for sure, Like a lot of people
that do contact this day, they are just looking for
like validation that you know that they're not crazy and
that something might be going on. Other times too, we
solve the mystery. We had a photograph given to us
by Al eighty. She said her and her friends were
playing with Luigi board one night, and then the next
(54:55):
day she took this photograph and it looked like there
was a face standing in her kitchen. And it wasn't
your typical ghost photo that I see, wasn't just orbs
of light. So anyway, we looked at it and had
my professional photographer examine it, and we noticed the face
wasn't in the kitchen behind the screen. It was on
the screen. And so we did a little science experiment.
(55:17):
I had my wife press her face against our screen.
We had a very similar screen, and sure enough, it
left a very similar face imprint. So I had the
homeowner go and take a photo of the screen again.
So this would have been like about two weeks when
the photo was taken, and you could just faintly see
that the face was still there. But when she sent
(55:38):
us the second picture, in the bottom right hand corner,
you could see that there was a pool and so
I asked her, I said, do you have kids? And
she said yep. And I said do they ever just
scream through the screen door asking for a drink or
a snack? And she goes, oh god, yeah all the time.
So we were able to piece it together based on
everything that you know what, somebody most likely pressed her
face against the screen and left it, and she was
(56:01):
completely happy. She wasn't trying to prank us or help us,
you know, Elliott, just there wasn't something scary in her house.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Unfortunately, we are out of time. Thank you so much
for coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's always
a great time.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Always a great time. Once again, our guest today has
been Elliott van Dusen, director of ppri i dot net
and key organizer of the upcoming twenty twenty five halfex
Paranormal Symposium taking place November twenty first in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
For more information about Elliott, his work, and the symposium,
visit www dot ppri i dot net. Please be sure
(56:42):
to join us again next time. This mission will continue
bringing information, resources and support to our evolving world.
Welcome to Mission Evolution Radio show with Gwildowaka, bringing together
today's leading experts to uncover ever deepening spiritual truths and
the latest scientific developments in support of the evolution of humankind.
For more information on Mission Evolution Radio with Gildawaka, visit
www dot Mission evolution dot org. And now here's the
(00:31):
host of Mission Evolution, Miss Gwildawieka.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to Mission Evolution, where we explore the spiritual and
scientific frontiers of human potential. I'm your host, Guildawyeka, and
today we'll step into the shadows of the unexplained with
Elliott van Duzen, director of the Paranormal Phenomenon Research and
Investigation Organization or ppri I dot net. From forensic investigation
(01:02):
to supernatural inquiry. A retired corporal in the Major Crime
Unit of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Elliott brings a
unique blend of science, logic, open minded exploration to one
of the human's oldest mysteries, life beyond the physical. Together,
we'll examine the fine line between science and supernatural and
(01:24):
look ahead to the twenty twenty five Halfhi's Paranormal Symposium
happening this November. Stay tuned you won't want to miss
a single moment of this enlightening journey into the unknown. Elliott,
thank you for joining us on Mission Evolution.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, thanks for having me back. I missed you last year.
Our schedules didn't allow for us to tee up there together,
but I'm happy to be back on Mission Evolution.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Well, I'm happy to have you here. I so love
your topic and your symposium. I wish I could come
see it myself. So what first drew you to explore
the world of paranormal phenomenon and how did that evolve
into the founding of the Paranormal Phenomena Research and Investigation
PPRII organization.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I get asked quite a bit whether or not
I had an experience that drew me into the paranormal,
But I give it credit to Unsolved Mysteries because I
knew I wanted to be a police officer, and I
knew that I specifically wanted to be a homicide detective.
So Unsolved Mysteries caught my attention with all their really
interesting coal cases. And then every once in a while
(02:30):
they throw in a UFO story or a ghost story,
and that also caught my attention. And then in nineteen
ninety seven, I discovered the television show The X Files,
but it had been on air since nineteen ninety three.
But I thought it was really interesting that you had
two law enforcement officers that were investigating claims of the supernatural,
and so I decided to start my nonprofit organization PPRII.
(02:54):
We started out by collecting local ghost stories and folklore,
which then into investigations. And when I moved to Halifax,
I met my colleague Darryl Walsh and teaching parapsychology courses
at the Nova Scotia Community College. So I enrolled in
those and after that the rest is history. I ended
(03:16):
up taking as many courses in the paranormal that I
could and ppr I now has been running for twenty
eight years doing investigations, research and educational activities.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
How does ppr I differentiate itself from other paranormal research
groups in terms of scientific methodology and professional standards.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, I have high expectations for my team, for sure.
One thing that we don't do is we're not a
proactive organization per se. If we have nothing on the goal,
one of my investigators wants to check out a location,
and I'm open to the idea. But for the most part,
where a react organization, much like law enforcement, would be
(04:03):
where you receive a call for service. We would receive
a call from a family that you know has an inquiry,
usually it's haunting related, and we'll conduct our interviews. We
do either a face to face interview or a video interview,
and you know, with my police training, especially in interviewing,
(04:26):
we look for non verbal cues. We look for, you know,
signs of mental health issues. We have a very thorough
questionnaire that we go forward with and then, depending on
our financial situation at the time, all authorize a full
field investigation because we don't charge our clients for money,
and investigations can be expensive. For example, we did one
(04:48):
this year and it was around two thousand dollars. We're
all volunteers. A lot of my volunteers work full time,
so they're donating their evenings and weekends and away from family.
We do a lot of funds, holding educational events and
selling merchandise. I donate all the proceeds from the sales
of my books back into the organization so that it
doesn't cost the public any money to use our services.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
With your background in law enforcement, how I've investigative and
forensic skills translated into your paranormal work.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Well, besides interviewing, I've also taken a stricter stance on
handling evidence, for example. So normally what we do after
an investigation is everybody will turn in their equipment, whether
that's a camera, memory card, digital recorder, it will go
to one person, usually our professional photographer, to then download, analyze,
(05:44):
and upload all the information to our secure shared drive.
That's certainly one aspect. The other one is certainly I
look at safety issues. I never send any of my
investigators alone. I'll always send at least two for safety reasons.
We actually just created a new policy as well that
(06:07):
when we all go our separate ways from an investigation
or an event, they have to message the lead investigator
to let them know that they've arrived home safely. So
we do take all that very seriously.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
What danger do you expect them to run into?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Well, it could be anything, you know. My wife and
I just traveled to Fredericton and Monkton, New Brunswick to
promote the Halifax perm Rome Symposium. We ended up getting
a flat tire on the way and we're sidelined for
about an hour, so I stayed in touch with Chris
styles UFO researcher that was also going to be presenting. Yeah,
let them know I was still on scheduled to be there,
(06:46):
but I wouldn't have as much prep time as I had,
So you never know, you know, what could happen to
you on the way home, especially a lot of times
we'll leave events very late at night, especially for doing
a public ghost hunt. They usually run from six pm
to ten pm, so lots of wildlife in Nova Scotia
on those highways, you just never know what you'll run into.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Literally. So any view, what constitutes credible evidence of paranormal
activity and how does pp R I ensure that the
investigations remain unbiased and verifiable.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, there's certainly a lot of bias that you have
to worry about. You know. I'm a believer in the paranormal.
I call myself a critical believer because I do try
and look at every explanation before saying that I, you know,
I can't understand this or that this is a true anomaly.
But we do use some scientific equipment, such as electromagnetic
(07:47):
fuel radiation detectors to look for unshielded wires. I always
tell everyone when we're giving an educational event that you know,
it's not a ghost detector like you would see on TV.
There's actually no piece of equipment that can the tech
ghosts or human consciousness, not even medical equipment for for
that reason. But you know, we use things like the
(08:08):
EMF device to check to see if there's unshielded wires
or excessive amounts of radiation coming from an electronic device,
because we know through scientific research and the laboratories, especially
the work of the late doctor Michael Persinger, that when
somebody's temporal lobes are exposed to excessive amounts of EMF
(08:29):
radiation that they can start to feel that like they're
being watched. They can have auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, and
it can mimic symptoms of a haunting. So we do use,
you know, regular tools that would be used by trades
trades people to check for environmental anomalies.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Many many critics dismiss paranormal research as a pseudoscience. How
do you respond to skeptics who claim that the phenomenon
like hauntings or psychic activity can be by psychology or coincidence.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I can see the argument to call parapsychology, which is
the scientific study of extrasensory perception or your psychic abilities.
Mind matter interaction or psychokinesis the ability to manipulate objects
or your environment with your mind. And survival research, which is,
you know, your near death experiences, your ghosts and hauntings.
(09:27):
But parapsychology is actually a social science because we're studying
people's experiences, so it is a soft science. I can understand,
you know, the physicists and biologists, chemistists why why yeah, chemistists,
why they are frustrated with parapsychology because a lot of
(09:49):
it is very spontaneous and it just happens when you
least expect it, and it's very hard to replicate, especially
the type of work that I do in field investigations,
so I totally un understand that we actually try and
replicate stuff as well in haunting situations. Just a quick example,
I had a cast iron pot which is not supposed
(10:09):
to give off electromagnetic radiation. It was sending our EMF
reader absolutely crazy. So the first thing I did, obviously
is look around. There's no outlets, there's no lights near it.
That's causing this to happen. It wouldn't stop. As soon
as I lifted the lid off the cast iron pot,
it stopped, put the lid back on, tried to replicate it.
We couldn't. Not saying that event is paranormal, but that
(10:32):
was certainly an anomaly that we caught in the environment
that we couldn't replicate. That's one small example from an
actual haunting case.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
What are some of the most compelling cases that pp
ri I has investigated that defy conventional explanation.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Well, one of my favorite ones is probably the first
time I think that I ever experienced a paranormal was
way back in two thousand and four, contacted by a
family that had just purchased eighty two year old home
in Kentville, Nova Scotia, and they said that they were
seeing a female apparition walk down their stairwell, They were
having pennies materialize in their home, they saw the ghost
(11:15):
of one of their basset hounds that had passed away,
and they were seeing images show up in photographs. So
certainly had quite a bit of phenomena that they were reporting.
Conducted an interview with them. There was no self disclosed
or notable mental health issues. They seem reliable, so we
sent a small team of four investigators down to the home,
(11:38):
and the first night we did get a strange emf
reading by the stairwell where they would see the apparition
come down. We would later discover on a second investigation
that that was due to unshielded wires, so we did
make the recommendation that they would fix that to avoid
possible electrical fire. But that one night, around five am,
(12:00):
I asked one of my investigators to go check the
videotape and the battery camera. This is back before cell phones,
and you had the big, clunky, you know, video recorder
with the VHS tapes in it. And sure enough, around
five o'clock in the morning when he went to go check,
Penny had appeared by the base of the tripod and
(12:21):
the husband and the two daughters had gone to bed
several hours before. The only way that you could get
into the kitchen was you would have to walk by us,
the investigators. We were all situated in the living room
with the wife, so nobody had walked by us. The
wife hadn't got up and gone into the kitchen. And
like I said, we would check it every hour on
the hour and we couldn't explain that. The second time
(12:45):
we went back to the house, it certainly confirmed that
there was something unusual going on there. One of my
investigators was outside with night vision and could actually see
a shadow moving in one of the upstairs bedroom. So
of course it gets on the radio and asks whether
or not any of us are upstairs, but none of
us were, so he decided to go upstairs and check it.
(13:05):
When he opened the bedroom door, he saw the female
apparition of a little girl standing on the bed. Once
he composed himself, he got on the radio and called
us upstairs to come take a look, But by that
time the apparition had disappeared. There was just a drape
that he said had fluttered from like hanging from the ground,
(13:26):
fluttered up to lay on the bed. And we had
an EMAF reader that was giving off high EMF readings
at that time, again not near any electrical outlets. The
room was ice cold. I had never felt cold like
that until years later when I was on Major Crimes
up in Yellowknife and we got called.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
We're gonna have to We're gonna have to leave a
cliffhanger because it's time for a station break. Elliott and
I will return very shortly, so don't go away. This
is Mission Evolution www dot Mission evolution dot org. How
does paranormal investigation work with us? This hour discussing the
science behind paranormal investigation is Elliot van Dersen, the director
(14:09):
of Paranormal Phenomenon Research and Investigation Organization. Elliot, So that
is the question. Can you walk us through a typical
investigation process from initial contact to final report? And what
safeguards do you use to prevent contamination or bias?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah? Sure, Just to quickly finish that story too before
the break. I never felt cold in that room until
years later when I was on major crimes with the
RCMP and we had to go to none of it
to help none of it RCMP, And it was like
minus fifty out and when you walked outside, your eyes
(14:49):
would instantly freeze and you can actually pull ice off
your eyelashes. So very very unusual experience in that house.
So certainly with the pennies materializing and Adam seeing the apparition, yeah,
that was just something that we couldn't explain as far
as you know, preventing contamination, I think the big thing
(15:14):
is and we always teach people this when we do
public ghost hunts is limiting the number of people that
are there. I just noticed in the last little while
when clients are contacting us and it's the day of
the investigation, they're they're messaging it and we're calling and
they're like, hey, our friends are really interested in this,
(15:34):
like they want to know if they could pop over
and take a look. I always say, well, they can
come over to meet the team like when we get there,
but then after that they have to go. I look
at it the same as like a police would with
the crime scene. You're not going to just invite a
ton of people with the public and the media to
come tramping through your crime scene. It's the same with
(15:54):
with an investigation. The more people that are there, then
the more contamination that can happen, whether that's noise, contamination, biases,
you know, different different things like that. So we do
try and contain the scene. We always let the homeowner
stay there because I understand, you know, you don't want
four or five strangers that you have no idea, you know,
(16:16):
tramping through your home and going through your bedroom and
like all your your personal space. So you know that
makes sense, and certainly knowing how to use your equipment
is important. I always sometimes there's pieces of equipment that
we don't use a whole lot that I'll have to
brush up on the manual before we use it, because
we want to make sure that the settings are correct
(16:39):
and that you're not getting you know, false readings and
things like that that can contaminate your investigation.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
How does technology such as the electromagnetic sensors, infrared cameras
or audio analysis enhance your ability to detect or document anomalies.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah. So one EMAF reader that we use is called
the GQ three ninety and I like that one. It's
a bit of a higher end model, but I do
like it because it'll actually record all the data for
you on the device and then you can plug it
into a laptop later download the data and you'll have
your chart of the recordings all captured for you, rather
(17:20):
than have your notebook and have to you know, write
down master bedroom readings were between this and this. So
certainly technology has advanced ghost investigations. Thermometers. We do have
a flur camera, which is a forward infrared looking camera
thermal camera. Really nice. You know, I always do a
demonstration with the public. I'll show them the wall and
(17:42):
it'll just be cold. I'll put my hand on there
for two seconds and pull it away and then put
the thermal camera on and you'll actually see the heat
from my hands still on the wall. So I got
that because during an investigation and exeter, I saw a
dorknob turned three force of the way on me when
I was in a little boys room and the mom
was downstairs. I opened the door up and there's nobody
(18:04):
behind it, and I thought to myself, Oh, that would
have been so nice to have the thermal camera, you know,
to check and see if there was some sort of
handprint on there. Same with footsteps as well. Because your
shoes are a bit different, it won't leave as much
of a heat signature, but if you're in bare feet,
for sure it'll leave a really good signature. So you
(18:25):
just never know. It's certainly a positive tool to have
in your toolbox. And the last new piece of equipment
that we bought were body cameras because I've heard so
many stories of, like we said earlier, the paranormal so
spontaneous that it can happen at any point in time.
And we were doing an investigation once and a team
(18:45):
before us had been there the night before, and apparently
a phone, old rotary phone that's not plugged in, not
connected to anything, rang on them while they were at
this museum. And I said, oh my god, tell me
that they got it on video or something, and the
curator said, no, we were all in a different room.
We just heard it ring ran in and that's it.
(19:07):
And I thought to myself, I'm like, you know what,
being a former law enforcement officer, I wonder how much
body warn cameras cost. And I went on Amazon, and
you know what, you can get pretty decent ones. The
ones we use are bob Lof Bob Lov and they're
actually not that expensive. They last for about twelve hours,
so almost like a law enforcement shift. And I figure,
(19:29):
you know what, at the start of our investigation, we'll
put it on where for the whole investigation. That way,
if something happens, perhaps maybe you'll just at least catch
the audio. And sure enough, just a couple of weeks ago,
my team were investigating a haunted house in Dartmouth. They
had set up a service bell upstairs and something was
ringing the service bell when there was nobody upstairs, and
(19:51):
they managed to catch that on the body Warren Camera's audio.
So you know it paid off in dividends right there.
So do you.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Believe that paranormal activity is more about energy and consciousness
than disembodied spirits, and if so, what implications does that
have for science and spirituality?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I think it's a mix. I think that. So, you
know what I believe. I subscribe to the survival theory
in parapsychology. So what parapsychologists believe is that when we
die from our physical body, our human consciousness somehow survives.
Doctor Sampirina with New York University has done two different
(20:38):
studies of people that are terminal, and they have permission
to bring those people back. And what he can say
is what we'd like to saying law enforcement is beyond
a reasonable doubt. He can say that the human consciousness
can survive outside the physical body for at least three hours.
And he knows that from the studies that he has
done and from recollections of people that had died been
(21:01):
brought back and have provided accurate information that was corroborated.
But I also know from parapsychology that without a physical body,
the only thing that they have is their consciousness, their
personality or what we call the mind, and it has
to somehow interact with the physical environment on our plane,
(21:24):
so we call that psychokinesis or mind matter interaction. So
they have to use that in order to open doors,
create knocks, different things like that. The movie Ghosts is
a great example of that, when the sleazy coworker was
sitting next to Demi Moore and he was trying to
put some moves on her and Patrick Swayze gets upset
(21:44):
and jumps over the couch and knocks over that picture.
He realizes that he was able to affect the physical environment,
so he goes back to the subway station and talks
to the ghosts. That really knows how to use psychokinesis,
And for that movie, they actually did quite a bit
of research and tried to make it as accurate as possible.
So you know, that's a that's a Hollywood example.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
How does PPR I balance scientific method with the more
intuitive or metaphysical side of paranormal research.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, we do do that because I do have a
medium on my team, Jody Russell, and I've worked with
her on a few different cases and she has provided
information which has really impressed me or wowed me, and
other times we just can't corroborate it. But Jody has
(22:37):
provided some information on some cases that we have been
able to corroborate. An example of that, I just presented
a case to the Society for Scientific Explorations forty third
Annual Conference about one of our investigations up in Amherst.
And one of the things that she had talked about
was where the family's dog was barking and acting very strange.
(23:01):
She felt that there was a male presence that had
died from a heart condition there, that he lived at
the residence. He died at the residence and it was
heart related. About two days later, the family had a
historian in town doing research on their property and they
had found a death record for John William Stevenson that
(23:21):
lived at that address and had died at that address
from a heart condition. And we don't tell Jody any
information before we go to the investigation, so we use
a blind protocol where she has absolutely no information about this.
So she wouldn't have been able to do research on
(23:42):
this beforehand because she didn't know the address, she didn't
know any names involved, you know, So we do try
and balance that out and anything that she gets that
we can't prove, Like that's a really good example of
something we could prove. Then we included in what I
call subjective evidence because we have no way to scientifically
(24:04):
prove it, so we classify that under subjective and we
let other people, you know, decide what they want to believe.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
In your research, how much influence do you believe human
perception has on paranormal experience?
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Well, certainly I do. It does play, you know, a
large factor. I also find, you know, if somebody has
been living in a location for a long time and
perhaps it is haunted, they start to get what my
colleague Daryl Walsh is nicknamed the kitchen sink syndrome, where
(24:45):
everything that seems to be happening in the home kind
of gets blamed on the paranormal. We were literally interviewing
a lady at a house once and she thought she
heard a noise and she's like, did you guys hear that?
And there was like four or five of us at
the table, and none of us heard anything. And we
just looked at her and said, no, I didn't hear anything.
And then she's just like, oh, okay, I thought I
(25:07):
heard something. That's an example of where somebody has just
been primed in a location for so long that they
may be biased or jumping to conclusion. So you do
run into that, which you can make your investigation slightly
more difficult if you've got one of those true believer
clients and you're there to try and give that rational
(25:30):
explanation on what's happening.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Do you think fear or expectation can actually manifest certain
phenomenon or alter how we interpret and explained events.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah, I think so, especially the expectation part. I always
talk about the Phillips experiment that occurred in Toronto in
the nineteen seventies. It was a group of paranormal researchers
that would attend their office every day and they wanted
to try and create their own Poultergeist. So they came
up with this fictional character named Philip, and every day
(26:05):
they'd come in they talked to Philip, and eventually they
started to have raps occur on their table to answer
questions that they would ask, so literally they were able
to create their own Poultergeist case. So I do think that,
you know, human expectation can play a role, and fear
(26:26):
as well can play a role. I know a lot
of people will fear the unknown, you know, which makes sense.
Humans are behavioral creatures and when things are uncertain or unknown,
it makes us uneasy. So yeah, certainly I think that
both of those things can affect somebody's perception.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Has there ever been an investigation that fundamentally changed your
personal belief system or understanding of reality.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Well, it would have to be the Exeter case for sure.
That case really right. There was just so much activity
that I had witnessed, a witness that flies materializing out
of nowhere. The home would just be loaded with these
house flies, almost like the movie Amityville Whore. I heard
three distinct footsteps approach me when it was just myself
(27:19):
and the homeowner there. Fire alarms went off on their
own accord and would only be turned off if they
were splashed with holy water. And we checked with Kitty,
the brand that makes the fire alarm, and they couldn't
figure out why that would have happened. There was a
strange message that had appeared on an iPhone and Apple
(27:40):
had no explanation for why the iOS software would have
responded like that. So it was a kind of a
really nasty entity that was picking on the homeowner and
the kids. So I know every time I'd returned to Canada,
I'd go down the Rhode Island for a couple of weeks.
Do the investigation come back to Canada. I know I
ended up starting to go back to church. I come
(28:02):
from a Roman Catholic background, so I started to go
into church there for a little while, and you know,
really thinking things over and really understood why you shouldn't
provoke things, because when I was down there, I was
doing some religious provocation things and getting responses might not
(28:23):
necessarily be right away like in the movies, but at
least twenty four hours later we would guess a response.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And well it's time for time for another station break,
Ellien and I will be right back to continue our discussion,
So please stay right there. This is Mission Evolution www
dot Mission evolution dot org. Ken ghosts make you sick?
This is Mission Evolution, Mission evolution dot org. With this
(28:50):
discussing the observer effect of paranormal investigation is Elliott van
Dusen pp r I dot net. Elliott. Many investigators describe
feeling physically or emotionally drained after an investigation. Have you
experienced any personal effects from long term exposure to this
kind of work.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Oh yeah, the the Exeter case, it had a very
oppressive feeling in the home and there were times where
you felt very lethargic, no energy, almost very like depressed.
And you know, we'd say that to the homeowner, like
(29:32):
let's take a break, you know, let's get out of here,
go for lunch or something, And as soon as you
started to drive away from the home, you immediately felt better.
You were wide awake again and you know, certainly feeling
feeling better. I know, when they brought a medium into
the house once to kind of do a house cleansing
as well, the father had to sit down. He was
(29:54):
sick to his stomach, felt like he was gonna puke. So, sir,
I do believe that it could have some physiological and
psychological effects. You know, through case studies, we know that
there's been people reporting oppression, depression, isolation type behaviors. So yeah,
(30:16):
that's certainly an interesting mystery within a mystery on how
that can happen.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So what's your take on psychic mediums and their role investigations.
Can intuition and evidence coexist in the same field?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, I mean I think I gave a couple of
examples earlier in the show there with Jodie. You know,
I think if you had the right person that knows
how to use their skill set, then it can be
very valuable. Certainly, your job as an investigator is you
have to try and corroborate that information. For example, we
(30:54):
just came back from Ottawa House Museum this past weekend
and there was a lady that was obviously quite intuitive,
and she was asking me how we would get information
if PP or I were to investigate, how do we
get information historical information about this place? And I said, well,
what's your question? And she said, well, I kept sensing
(31:16):
that there was a soldier in this house that had
an injury to his stomach, and he was basically alluding
to her that he had been awarded at this position
and he didn't really deserve the position, and something happened,
whether somebody turned on him and injured him or he
injured himself. And I said, well, I said, we did
(31:38):
ask for a knowledgeable historian to be on staff tonight
to answer questions, so let's go talk to them. And
they didn't have any information about a soldier dying at
the property, but they said that soldiers would stay at
the Ottawa House Museum quite frequently because it would sometimes
be used as like an inn or a stopover. So
(31:59):
it was, you know, was quite possible. So in that
case you couldn't really corroborate it and say, you know,
one way or the other. But then when we looked
at the Amhers case where the gentleman had died of
the heart attack, lived at the property, died at the property,
and then we found the death record that says, yes,
this guy lived at the property and did die at
the property, because they had the location of death on there.
(32:21):
You know, that's that's corroborated. That's that's pretty substantial. So
I do think that it's valuable. Just unfortunately, sometimes you
just can't find that corroborative information. It's not like on
TV where they've given you the name and the date
of birth and check underneath this, you know, this floorboard
and you'll find the body. It's usually not that detailed. Unfortunately,
(32:43):
you've got to do some some work.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
How does pp R I collaborate with other international research
organizations or universities.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
Yeah, so, well, in Nova Scotia, I reached out to
all of our psychology and sociology departments at the Universe,
and I let them know that we exist because I
know sometimes when people are out there and they need help,
they don't know who to turn to, so sometimes they
do turn to universities, especially the psychology So I have
(33:14):
done that. I've actually reached out to the head of
the Catholic Church for Nova Scotia as well and let
them know that we exist. I did get a response
from them, just thanking them for our letter and letting
him know that we exist. Also with other scientists. For example,
(33:34):
we had one case where I realized that it was
mental health and not so much the paranormal. I mean,
maybe there was paranormal activity happening, but the primary concern
was mental health issues. And I realized that she needed
to speak to a clinical parapsychologist, which is a practicing
(33:55):
psychiatrist or psychologist that has an understanding in parapsychology but
is also licensed to help. So I reached out to
doctor Jim Horan in Texas because our client was in Texas,
and he ended up being able to assist in that investigation.
We were able to provide him with all of our disclosure,
(34:16):
everything that we collected. The statements the photographs, of course,
with the client's consent, and he ended up publishing in
the Frontiers of Psychology, a peer reviewed journal, about our
case and thanked Paranormal Phenomenal Research and Investigation for their
thorough investigative work and contributing to writing that article. So
(34:41):
we do certainly work with other researchers out there and
also local universities and colleges.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You've emphasized ethics and professionalism in the field. Why is
that so vital to maintaining the credibility of paranormal research.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, it's funny. I was actually for part of the
Halifax Paranormal Symposium. I noticed on Facebook my press release
got shared and I was going through the comments and
reading it, and a lot of the comments were from
non believers and and naysayers and stuff like that, and
it's it's funny because obviously the stigma around the paranormal
(35:21):
still exists. I haven't seen it for a while, I guess,
mostly because the people that I hang out with are believers,
I would assume, so even if they're skeptical, I mean
that they're still somewhat open minded. But clearly that shows
that there's still stigma involved with the with the paranormal.
So you know, certainly, we we take everything serious. We
(35:45):
we use the scientific method, We try and corroborate as
much as we can, we use scientific tools. If it's
something is outside of our expertise, then we will contact,
you know, somebody else, like in the case with needing
a clinical parapsychologist. I do have a psychiatrist on my
(36:06):
staff now, doctor Craig Goss. He just joined us about
a year ago actually, so it's really nice to have
him on staff because he's a practicing psychiatrist and any
case that has even a hint of mental health I
usually assign him to. So it's really fascinating. We're actually
going to be doing a study here because he believes
(36:27):
that people that experienced the paranormal are going to score
higher on the association skill. And I always tell people,
you know, when I'm talking you, you're getting bored and
you tune me out. That's a form of dissociation. But
another good example is you know when you leave work
and all of a sudden, you're pulling into your driveway
and you're like, oh my god, how did I get here?
I don't remember driving home for the last half hour.
(36:49):
That's also dissociation. Your minds you know, left so to speak,
and you were operating on autopilot. So it's not necessarily
a bad thing, but it's, you know, something that we're
curious about and doing our own research on.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
In your opinion, what direction does the next generation of
paranormal investigators need to take if this field is ever
to be accepted by mainstream science.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, certainly. I think that education is important, and there's
not a ton of places to get education. I know,
academics are trying to do a lot of citizen scientists programs,
so they're trying to have mentors. Scientists are trying to
mentor amateurs that you know, are interested in this and
(37:38):
teach them best methods and best practices to do investigations
because they do realize that, you know, people are really
interested in the paranormal and they're out there trying to
collect audio clips and photographs, and there's a lot more
amateurs out there than there are professionals doing fieldwork, so
they do realize that, you know, they are collecting valuable data.
(38:01):
So if there's a way that they can teach them
to do it without it being contaminated or that it's
you know, not another phenomena like audio paradolia or visual paradolia.
Then you know certainly that that is bringing credibility to
the field. We operate our Parapsychological Education Center, which is
(38:22):
an online paranormal course place that you can take courses,
and I try and get different experts to teach different courses.
So for example, when we do our investigating UFO course,
I get Chrys Styles. He's been investigating UFOs for over
thirty years. You know, there's no person better to teach
(38:44):
that course than him. Darryl and I usually teach the
parapsychology course. That's all we've done for the last thirty years.
So we try and get experts and even introduction to demonology.
I'll get religious religious experts to come out of the students,
and of course when we do the student feedback, they
all find that very valuable. So there's only a few different,
(39:06):
you know, institutions out there. US the Ryan Education Centers
another valuable asset, and then universities usually do like a
one off course. I've taken like a witchcraft course from
University of Ottawa. So you really have to look look
around for education. But I think educating yourself and knowing
(39:27):
you know what the tools do, having best practices and policies.
I think all that is very, very valuable to the
next generation.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
How is public interest in the paranormal involved in the
last decade and what do you think how what do
you think fuels the current surge and curiosity and media coverage.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
Well, I mean, we're always interested in ghosts, even skeptics.
I always always laugh, like if if you run into
somebody that's skeptical, you know, they might not be a believer,
but I notic once you start telling a true ghost story,
they can't help but go quiet and listen. So certainly
even the skeptics are interested in it. So I just
(40:11):
think it's something that we're all fascinated and we all
love a good ghost story or something unexplained. We find
it entertaining. You know, we do a lot of the
public ghost hunts, but we do it a little bit differently.
I bring like an educational aspect to it, so I
can almost I can almost guarantee. I guess I'd have
(40:34):
to take a few other people's you know, public ghost hunts,
but I can almost guarantee Pears is different, just because
we do bring that credibility to it where we explain
to them what the tools are actually for, we talk
about the research that's been done, and they walk away with,
you know, some valuable educational knowledge. So I do think that,
(40:56):
you know, that's certainly one aspect.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
What role do you see media, radio, television and podcasts
playing and either helping or harming legitimate research into the
unexplained phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
Well, positives of radio shows and television and you know,
podcast is that you're getting the information out there. You know,
the downside would be whether or not it's a credible
information or not, you know, So, I mean, I guess
it would be up to the podcast hosts or the
producers to do their their background check on who they
(41:33):
have on their show if they are worried about credibility
on the show. But it's certainly a quick way to
get information out there that a lot of people listen
to podcasts. I know it's helped us. We sometimes get
people emailing us saying, hey, I heard you on the
X Zone or you know, I know one year, I
(41:53):
was looking for information about the Weston Hotel. Darryl and
I had always heard it was hot to downtown Halifax,
but nobody had any stories. Daryl didn't have any in
his books, Steve Vernon didn't have any in his ghost books,
Vernon Oukel didn't have any in his even went as
far back as Helen Creighton, the original folklorest that started
(42:15):
the ghost craze in Nova Scotia, and she didn't have
anything there. But after doing some social media posts, we
were getting a few different people that had previously worked
there that were sharing their experiences with us. So certainly,
you know it has a very beneficial aspect to it.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
We're going to have to take another station break. Please
stay with us. Is Elliot and I continue to explore
supernatural inquiry. This is Mission Evolution, Mission evolution dot org.
Where can a person learn about paranormal investigation? This is
Mission Evolution, missionevolution dot org. We're continuing our discussion with
Elliott Vndusen, director of pp ri I dot net. Elliott,
(42:57):
let's talk about the two thousand and five Paranormal Symposium.
What can attendees expect from the event.
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yeah, I'm very excited about this. This is our third
annual Halifax Paranormal Symposium. We realize that there's not a
whole lot of paranormal conferences in Canada, and so we
wanted to bring something back to Canada and it had
to be a mix of educational information, academic, but also
(43:29):
entertainment because I've found when things are too academic, you
start to lose the general population. So we've kind of
found a happy medium. I would say, because we're into
our third year, this is so far our best year.
I think we only have like ninety five seats left
at a two hundred, and we still have a month
to go. November first is when the symposium is taking
(43:52):
place on Saturday, November first at the Halifax Tower Hotel
and Conference Center and Beyers Lake, Nova Scotia. It'll be
from nine to six. I have five guest speakers coming.
I have doctor Yanna Greenberg talking to us about ancient
astronauts or aliens. I have Tony Rathman coming to talk
to us about electronic voice phenomena. And then after lunch,
(44:15):
she's actually going to do a live demonstration with his
device that he's developed. It's called Statacom, and he believes
that you can talk to the dead in real time,
and he did a demonstration with myself and doctor Yanna.
We were asking questions about the afterlife. We weren't really
getting any answers that we wanted, But all of a sudden,
(44:36):
I said to Yana, why don't you speak Russian to them,
because she speaks Russian. And when she did, the voices
on the other end started to make fun of Russians
and told her that Russia Russian wasn't a real language,
and it was kind of funny. She kind of upset
Doctor Yanna because she's very proud of her Russian heritage.
But I thought it was interesting because it doesn't use
radio signals or anything like that. So the conversation and
(45:00):
became relevant at that point. So it'll be really interesting
at the symposium. If you buy your general emission ticket,
you'll possibly get picked because in the workshop we're going
to pick people out of the crowd to come up
on stage and talk into Statacom and perhaps you'll get
a message that means something to you. We also have
Brian Baker coming from Toronto. He's a journalist. He's going
(45:21):
to talk to us about his experience with cryptozoology. And
we also have my investigator Pierre Phillitrow is going to
come and talk to us about Wiji boards. And then
we have the CEO of Paraflex, which I call the
Netflix of the paranormal at a streaming service that just
(45:41):
streams paranormal shows. Natalie Jones is going to come talk
to us about awakening your higher self and energy, healing,
positive energy and intentions. So really looking forward to the
lineup this year. I try and change the guest speakers
and the topics every year, so you just never know
what you're going to get.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
What inspired you to create the symposium and how has
it grown since its inception?
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Yeah, it's it's still a one day event. I'm hoping
next year we can move it to a two full
day event. We've also incorporated some workshops this year which
were very popular. We've got a ghost Hunt at Alexander
Keith Brewery which sold out very quickly, and we also
are doing a World Laura Warren Live. She's a medium workshop,
(46:35):
and again we limited that to forty people and that
sold out as well. So I'm hoping next year we
can expand to two full days. So we've certainly almost
grown to that point, which is which is really good
because the first year when I did this, I funded
the entire thing out of my own pocket. We had
(46:55):
a few sponsors that donated cash, but I took a
big risk by funding it out of my own pocket
and you know, out of the nonprofits pocket. So it's
a risk that obviously has has paid off for us
and it's something that we're able to to keep going.
So my main goal was to create awareness, you know,
(47:16):
of these paranormal topics and also provide a safe space
for people to come. Like I said, I you know
saw that social media post a lot of naysayers on
there and making fun of the paranormal. But everyone that
comes to the Paranormal Symposium can't believe. They look around
and there's like over one hundred other people that have,
you know, the same thoughts that they do, and and
(47:37):
they feel like they're part of a community and and
like mindedness. And I love that aspect about the symposium.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
Have you ever had any paranormal events happen at a symposium?
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Not yet know the year? Yeah, maybe it is the year.
Uh No. The Halifax Paranormal Symposium is held at the
Halifax Tower Hotel. It's a fairly new hotel. It's only
been an operation i'd say for four years. It's got
sixteen floors, it's beautiful. The owner spared no expense, it's
(48:12):
all like tile and it's just a gorgeous venue. So
as far as I know, they they haven't had any
haunting issues or anything like that, not like some of
the older hotels in Halifax.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Have you found in your investigations that sometimes the expectation
of the people that are investigating actually create a phenomenon.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
No, you know what, I haven't run into that. I
have run into people though, that have contacted us, and
you know, initially, like we always asked the client, like,
what do you expect out of this investigation? And they always,
you know, say that they're either looking for validation from
a third party that they're not crazy. Some people might
(49:02):
say that they're hoping that the phenomena stops. We always
tell them we can't guarantee that, because nobody can. But no,
for the most part, I think the worst we've run
into is when we've found an explanation that's not paranormal
and we're trying to tell them that and they don't
want to hear that. They were almost hoping that we
(49:23):
would come in and confirm that their place is haunted.
So that obviously is a little bit difficult because you're
dealing with a difficult client.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Do you have provision to clear out a house if
if you do find it haunted.
Speaker 3 (49:39):
I get Jodie to do like house cleansing, so she
uses like sage and and goes around and does you
know a house cleansing. We do have some religious advisors,
not in Nova Scotia. I got two in Ontario, one
in Rhode Island. If it was something more or you
know a Roman Catholic family or Catholic family wanted that
(50:03):
kind of blessing, we do have that capability, but I
always explain to people like, we can't guarantee that to
get rid of the activity. And I always equate it
to my policing days. You know, if you have an
unwanted guest in your house, you can do one of
three things. You can ask them to leave, You can
grab them and throw them out, or you can call
them mounties and we'll come do it for you. But
(50:25):
in the spiritual world, that person doesn't have a physical body,
so you can ask the person to leave, or like
a lady told me this past weekend, they had to
say our master bedroom was off limits. They always felt
like they were being watched in the master bedroom, so
they said, you know, master bedrooms off limits. Go go
(50:46):
elsewhere in the house. And that's it. That's all we
can do is ask because there's no proton packs, there's
no Ghostbusters, there's no containment unit, you know, so all
you can do is ask and try. But ultimately we
just don't have that capability to make the activity stop.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
What is role does the symposium play and bringing credibility,
collaboration and education to the paranormal research community in Canada
and abroad.
Speaker 3 (51:17):
Well, certainly we've had we've had some really you know,
good quality guest speakers over the past three years. We've
had John Kruth was one of my favorites. He's the
executive director of the Ryan Research Center, so we had
him last year. He came. He spoke to us about psychokinesis,
(51:39):
particularly electronics. Psychokinesis so people that can affect computer systems.
You know, some people say, oh, computers hate me. All
sit in front of it and I get the blue
screen of death all the time. Well, John's actually done
research and showing that there are some people that give
off energy and photons that do affect electronics. So, you know,
(52:02):
I think bringing in some credible speakers and other really
you know, credible and interesting gentleman that we brought in
was doctor Richard Gallagher, who's a psychiatrist down in the
US that believes in demonic possession. So certainly bringing in
those types of guest speakers that have the background and
(52:23):
the education and the credibility to come to Halifax and
present their work, certainly I think boasts the credibility of
the symposium. My my volunteers all come, my investigators all come.
They volunteer their time for the symposium, and people always
find them so friendly and helpful, and you know, I
(52:45):
try and bring some comedic relief too when I'm there.
I know, our first year, we were having a terrible
time with the sound system and I kept making some
jokes and stuff like that, and on the on our survey,
people were saying, you know, the poor guy, like he
did his best. It wasn't his fault, it's the hotel
sound system. But he was entertaining and wish we would
have heard more from him. He seemed like he had
(53:06):
so much knowledge that he could have shared. So then
for our second year, I decided to speak there so
that I talked about law enforcement and the paranormal. So
we do listen to feedback that we get about the symposium,
and we do try and accommodate that.
Speaker 2 (53:23):
So, finally, what message do you want attendees and the
general public to take away from the twenty twenty five
Halifex Paranormal Symposium about the future of paranormal science and
the evolution of human consciousness?
Speaker 3 (53:37):
You know what, I think the message if somebody attends
there this year and they walk away just to walk
away thinking, you know, with an open mind of what
they just heard, if they're skeptical, to know that they're
not alone, that there, you know, is a community out
there right here in their own neighborhood that has an
(53:58):
interest in this, and to know that, you know, our
organization ppr I is out there doing credible research and
education events and that we're available to assist as well
if them or somebody they know is being affected or
has questions about the supernatural? And one answers.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Do you find that the very existence of someone that's
trying to credibly look at paranormal gives people hope that
they aren't losing their mind if they do have an experience.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
Yeah, oh yeah, for sure, Like a lot of people
that do contact this day, they are just looking for
like validation that you know that they're not crazy and
that something might be going on. Other times too, we
solve the mystery. We had a photograph given to us
by Al eighty. She said her and her friends were
playing with Luigi board one night, and then the next
(54:55):
day she took this photograph and it looked like there
was a face standing in her kitchen. And it wasn't
your typical ghost photo that I see, wasn't just orbs
of light. So anyway, we looked at it and had
my professional photographer examine it, and we noticed the face
wasn't in the kitchen behind the screen. It was on
the screen. And so we did a little science experiment.
(55:17):
I had my wife press her face against our screen.
We had a very similar screen, and sure enough, it
left a very similar face imprint. So I had the
homeowner go and take a photo of the screen again.
So this would have been like about two weeks when
the photo was taken, and you could just faintly see
that the face was still there. But when she sent
(55:38):
us the second picture, in the bottom right hand corner,
you could see that there was a pool and so
I asked her, I said, do you have kids? And
she said yep. And I said do they ever just
scream through the screen door asking for a drink or
a snack? And she goes, oh god, yeah all the time.
So we were able to piece it together based on
everything that you know what, somebody most likely pressed her
face against the screen and left it, and she was
(56:01):
completely happy. She wasn't trying to prank us or help us,
you know, Elliott, just there wasn't something scary in her house.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Unfortunately, we are out of time. Thank you so much
for coming on the show.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's always
a great time.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Always a great time. Once again, our guest today has
been Elliott van Dusen, director of ppri i dot net
and key organizer of the upcoming twenty twenty five halfex
Paranormal Symposium taking place November twenty first in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
For more information about Elliott, his work, and the symposium,
visit www dot ppri i dot net. Please be sure
(56:42):
to join us again next time. This mission will continue
bringing information, resources and support to our evolving world.
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