The Loch Ness Monster Pt 3: What is the Loch Ness Monster?

In modern times, over 1,000 people claim they’ve seen the Loch Ness Monster. Descriptions vary. Some say the creature resembles a salamander; others say a whale, or a seal. In today’s episode we attempt to sort the wheat from the chaff, and decide what the most likely culprit for all the sightings is. 

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Episode Transcript

(00:02):
A crypt and this is a script. I wanted to quick against my enemies.
Yeah, you see, you wantedto say and then attle raison,
but appleget you? What is goingon? Everyone? I am Rob and

(00:32):
oh damn son, it is monsterful. I'm the last part of Lockness.
Yep, we're coming on to thelast part of our Lockness Bonanza three episode
won't be the last time we talkedabout the Lockness Monster, I'm sure,

(00:52):
but we needed three parts to ensurethat we did a full concise run through
of this to make sure that ritualwas complete or going to lockneck exactly,
yeah, exactly. And anyone thatwas there with us, they'll be listening
to this just as as we've doneour mate up and we've done all those
bits, which is nice too.And if you weren't there, you get

(01:12):
a bit of a flavor of what'sgoing on. You know, you're joined
the Locknet's monster. Yeah. Goodnew as far as all ghosts next week.
So if you fed up a descriptedship, we're under the ghost next
we all we all fed up withthis scrypted ship. Yeah. So before
we get into this episode, it'sa fun one. We've got a lot
of we've got a rundown of whatwe think is the most to least likely

(01:34):
kind of it's a bit of everythingreally is not in a sequential order.
But we've kind of tried to lookat things as objectively as we can and
sort of go right what our lad'ssaying at Lockness is a wave, is
an a pleasa sort is a plankton, is a whole number of different things

(01:56):
or whatever. So so in thismoment, we were just going to get
through all of that and really tryand come up with our own conclusion aim
and at the end of this episodeand say this is what we think it
is, this is what we're hangingour hat on, And there's some interesting
theories here for those of you interestedin something a bit more abstract. But
before we get into this episode,we would like to remind everyone that Patreon
is the best beat. To supportus. It helps us to continue to

(02:19):
make these episodes, this whole studiothanks to Patreon, this Locknest trip,
thanks to Patreon, everything is becauseof our patrons. Without them, there
would be no Monster Fuzz. Youget stuff in return. If you support
us, you get your add threeepisodes, you get a Patreon exclusive episode
and in you would have got alot of Scotland stuff and you get access
to our discord where you can hangout and chat shit with us and lots

(02:40):
more. You can pay early aswell if you don't like the subscription model
EM. If they have any cryptedexperiences, maybe they've said Blackness. Yes,
have you seen Lockness Monster? Thisis the third time we've asked that
question and as of yet nothing havewe seen the Lockness Monster. The weekend
just gone in the future. Weput it on back to the future.
Who's to know. But if youdo have any interesting stories where whether they

(03:04):
be spooky tales of synchronicity came uprecently they were very cool, I send
them to Monsterphus podcast at gmail dotcom and as always we will read these
out on a mini bank dushed emand we have a quickly intro here if
you want to take all about fromme. In modern times, over a
thousand people claim that they've seen theLockness Monster. Descriptions vary. Some say

(03:28):
the creature resembles a salamander. YourFacebook name is still salamander, Mickey cool
just jacking. Others say a whaleor a seal. In today's episode,
we attempt to sort the wheel fromthe chaff and decide what the most likely
culprit for all these sightings are.Yep, so basically over a thousand people

(03:51):
em and I have said of seeinglocklans monsters just quite mad? Is it
like way over a thousand because there'sa certain amount of sightings a year,
and as we've been going, itstarted in like the late nineteen so well
before that, even the eighteen hundred, so i'd imagine yeah, yeah,
it would be a good bit northof it. Yeah. Yeah. So
the first one we're going to askis and this is the most famous one,

(04:14):
and if you've listened to the firsttwo episodes you'll have a fair idea
on the answer. But the firstquestion is is NeSSI or the lackness monster
applesiosaur. Well I've done a bitmore research on that, so yeah,
dinosaurs went extinct sixty five millionaires agothe end of the Cretaceous period, Unleester
McCallum amba, by the way,which is still there after living on the

(04:34):
art for about one hundred and sixtyfive millionaires. This is here some cool
dinof acts for you. Yeah,if all of earth time from the very
beginning of dinosaurs to today, werecompressed into three hundred and sixty five days
one calendar year. The dinosaurs appearedJanuary first and became extinct the third week
of September. Using this same timescale, the art would have been formed

(04:58):
approximately eighty zero point five years earlier. Using the same scale, people Homo
sapiens have been on the Earth onlysince December thirty first, which was New
Year's Eve. The dinosaurs long periodof dominance certainly makes them unqualified successes in
the history of life on Earth,which the enormity of like how long the

(05:21):
dinosaurs actually lasted when you think aboutit, because if you look at the
history of humanity you're talking about already, we have these crisises like global warming,
you have these things like collapses ofecosystems, all this type of thing,
right, this would have likely allhave happened during the time of dinosaurs
as well, in different flavors,different styles of different things, different plagues,

(05:43):
different viruses, and they outlasted allof that to quite quite air farts
cause, because I imagine that's badmeeting going into the atmosphere, how much
cow farts was a Tyrannosaurus rex fart, it would have been crazy, a
good question, So they mind haveeven produced me then that we don't know
who knows, who could know we'rebreathing the same oxygen that a t rexpres

(06:09):
that it's kind of cool when youget a glass of water, you're just
like, this is the same waterthe dinosaurs drink, and then you go
cool. But then also that's whatmight me drink water as a child because
they didn't have coke cola back onthe dinosaurs were own dinosaur maybe, but
they definitely didn't have coke cola.So it all went down. They were
knocked out by a big, badleasteroid. So we're just going to talk

(06:30):
about that really quickly. During thatimpact, around seventy five percent of ours
animals, including dinosaurs, died outat the same point in time. So
how was this global mass extinction causedby a rock hurtling into the cost of
Central America. This guy explains thatthis is one of the text I found
on the internet. Here he saidthat the asteroid hit at a high philosophy

(06:50):
and effectively vaporized and made a hugecreator creator And so in the immediate area
there was told devastation, blast,weave and heat wave through a uncho material
into the atmosphere, it said suchtraveling all around the world. It didn't
completely block out the sun, butit reduced the amount of light that reached
their surface, so it had animpact on plant growth. So this was

(07:11):
like in the matrix where we scorchedthe sun. Would that have been kindo
like I suppose, Yeah, itwould have been. Then the lads get
over it that one time when yousee the clouds in the sun and you
go It would have been very similar. The reason't, of course, why
we're talking about this fox, isjust so that we have a sort of
a baseline for the likelihood of ampleasiasare actually still hanging around. But anyway,

(07:32):
like Domino's, this trailed up thefood chain, causing the ecosystem to
collapse. The reduction and plant lifehad a huge impact on harbivore's ability to
survive, of course, which inturn meant that carnivores couldn't have food either
because they were eating the harbor exactly, So breeding seasons would have been shorter
and conditions harder. All living thingswould have been affected in some way,

(07:54):
both on land and in the ocean. There was a lot of discusson about
how long the lasted I'll spare allthe details about that, but basically the
casualty list is long. Ammonites,microscopic planting, and large marine reptiles all
died out. And this is importantbecause Nessie would have been one of these
reptiles, as we mentioned earlier inthe earlier episodes, Nessie's please you,

(08:18):
Yeah, it would have been outcompeted by massasors anyway, you were saying,
yeah, so it's not looking great. We also mentioned that the lock
has frozen solid at least once inhistory, and this is another one that
I learned, which we should havebrought up in earlier episodes. But it's
only ten thousand years old, apparently, lockness really Yeah, so the actual
lake areas like ten k years old. It was probably formed by a glacier

(08:41):
that tad out after the last Okay, yeah, makes sense. So lots
of other bits about pleasersers and theirhabitats and their habits. They lived in
water, but they breathed air,so you would have seen them surfacing often.
Okay. Yeah, so if itwas pleasy sores in the lake,
you would see like you'd see aseal. Yeah, basically, and Emo
actually asked an interesting question if theLocke had enough food to support monsters.

(09:05):
And I did actually find an emailin an article here and saw the emails
from Sofia Fernandez. It was amarine biologist from Chile, Chile, and
raises the possibility that the lock couldactually support a small population of small monsters.
So that's interesting and okay, thepaper she mentions is She says you

(09:26):
should read the paper about the subject, although I think it is rather difficult
for you to find that. It'scalled the Population Density of Monsters in Locknett.
It's a very on the nose name. Yes, it's spread that people
were actually writing these things. Sobasically it's a production study of the lake
and according to the calculations of primaryalgae and secondary fish production obtained by the

(09:46):
authors, Lockneest is able to supportthe population of ten to twenty monsters of
approximately one point five tons. That'sclass now they did the math. The
smaller the monsters, the denser thepopulation can be. If the population of
migrating fish is taken on account,the possible standing stock of monsters could be
even higher. M It's very interestingand it is scientific too. It may

(10:09):
be a little complex, but theconclusion is clear. Lockness could support the
small population of monsters that could begenetically viable. Well, that was it.
I hope with some help that's last. So they did the match.
But it can't be a pleasias orchances are it just doesn't make sense.
But the good news is their legacylives on. If you want to find

(10:31):
plesiosaurs, lizards and turtles, tellme this, right, you said they
would have been now competed by themasasaur. Did the masasaur have to come
up to the surface for air aswell? Do you know? I because
if it was a masasaur there,well, the mansar didn't have the long
name as we've seen it. Yeah. I was just thinking could there be
a misidentification there? Yees? Soprobably not. I think massasars are closer

(10:52):
related to whales, right, Ithink non expert on that, but I
think they're close related to mammals.Where is the pleasy Saurs are close related
to like the lizards and turtles.And that's the other thing is policy sores
would have been it's cold blooded,right, so that would survive and the
lock nest. Can you make yourbest way of the sound. I don't

(11:16):
know what about it sounds like that'sreally good though. That's why you asked
me. That's what I started doingwhen you were in like this fucking nerds
like you were just you were justgoing was like you have a like I

(11:39):
was hot whales, the start ofthank You, the song, the warmth,
the warmed. I should bring itback to board batters because you you
were. I love when you talkabout monsters because I can see you see
that. Nor to rush me,now me just tell you. The interest

(12:01):
is there because you're writing papers onit. Right, So if you want
to make noise as well, meansright, doesn't the paper on the habits
of please I've been alright dressed,you've been You've been told anyway, and
that's the crack. That's it wasover anyway. But when you started making
the noises, look we were doingit. You're just having yours, having

(12:24):
too much fun with you. Forgetwhat this podcast it was all about.
What. I just want to askabout your making them. Yeah, it's
not please you. Sorry, it'snot please you. No, it's just
not. Probably not mas sare thenit can't be either of them, but

(12:45):
could it be a giant deal?It can't be, well, but it
could be. We'll check it out, where's mickey, where's mickey? Could
but it might be a giant lemand so that actually one of our listeners
just to the just today as Iwas right, well I yesterday, but
he was like, it could begiant eels, right, sore we go.

(13:07):
Eels are native to the area,and they can grow big, well
meter big. They can move asdescribed by some witnesses, and can they
be a good candidate for this?So yeah, so you're talking about eels
on the surface, you're talking aboutlike that trying, yeah, meandering,
Yeah, like reptilian, like adinosaur. In the nineteen seventies, a

(13:31):
sample of European eels was collected fromLockness with baited drafts. The distribution of
just thinking about whale. Check outthis noise is good noise. That's more
of a jungly noise. More butthe whale noise we were jungle like drum

(13:56):
and bass noise or drum based lives. That's the drama based. Our listeners
are delighted there with that. Theylove this scream. They love the assault
of my broadcasting, legendary broadcaster.So in the nineteen back to History Mysteries

(14:20):
in the nineteen seventies, a sampleof European eels was collected from Lockness with
maz drafts. Very interesting that thedistribution of eel masses was skewed, which
led biologists to conclude that large eelsmay exist in the Lock. Eel body
structure and functions are characterized by anelongated body form, a single pair of

(14:43):
pectoral fins, strong muscula chart likemyself and high amplitude winding movement, and
a durable intergument. We have thickepidermis and dark chromatophore chromatophors. I have
a thick epidermis, can't guess troudragon like epidermis too hired and environmental DNA
study conducted at the lock in twentyeighteen detected extraordinary amounts of mitochondrial and nuclear

(15:09):
DNA from eels from sky flippers Eilenheimer, prompting authors to further suggest the possibility
of large eels in the Loch.Fox and analyzed catch data from Lockness and
other freshwater bodies in Europe to predictthe likelihood of observing eels as large as
previous estimates of the Lockness monsters size, so the chances of encountering a one

(15:35):
meter long eel in Lockness, accordingto the results, are about one in
fifty thousand, which could explain somesightings of the smaller unknown creatures, which
is fair enough. The probability offinding much larger eels, however, is
virtually zero, which debunks the theorythat giant eels account for sightings of these
larger animals. In this new work, a much need did level of scientific

(16:00):
rigor and data are brought to atopic that is otherwise slippery. Isn't sugar?
Yes, look, it's probably noteels. I got a lot of
excited when I was doing the researchand I was like, yeah, maybe
giant eels. That's how big isa giant eel? Like Kunger eels I
think get really yeah, they're prettypretty hefty, like you would say,

(16:22):
at least probably my body length,i'd imagine, you know, like I
think they can get that big.I think, I think, And there's
something eels well like nicol search surgeon, but it's more of a sturgeon.
But actually all sturgeons in Lockness,really it was I met. We'll talk
about that later on. All sturgeonand zero because sturgeons are sort of eel

(16:48):
like as well. In a waylike you knows, like monster that's true?
Yeah, serpent serpent esk Yeah.Yeah. In the early I posted
a video on our Instagram of likegiant sturgeon and some like in America and
it looked like a leg monster.You were just like, oh, yeah,
that that looks like if I seeingthat, I would be like,

(17:10):
yeah, that's some kind of monster, right, Metallica style? But some
kind of monsters? Is that?Thinking about that just kind of derailed me
totally, Just like what's your firstthought when you think of some kind of
monster? Bob Rock? Bob Rockis pretty good one. Yeah, Mine
is like when car Camick goes itwas I'm staying on Joe Organ the recently

(17:32):
he loves Yeah, he brings uplike smoking hash back in the day,
and I was just laughed because rememberwe used to Jered, he used to
smoke ashles. Why don't we smokefrom It's bad for Hasha? Do you
ever hear Laide s daily making funof him. He does like there's some

(17:53):
lady has and it's like ninety twoor ninety three, And anytime the camera
cuts the Laide from interview, hejust sings like Dave mistained for like five
seconds. I like that he's agood guy. He seems like a nice
guy. I like it should likehe's in some kind of monsters this camera,
he's all like, he's like whatyou're going through now ours I'm dealing
with for twenty years house feel plasmamistake. He fell asleep and just got

(18:19):
nerve damages handled come like guitarre forsomething like he was on a lot of
speed. But at the time Ithink he drove to the hospital. I
goll be getting this opening few.I think it was something like, you
know, he fell asleep in thewaiting room and was on his arm in
such a way that he likes trappedhis nerves and then he was like putting
shred no more. I think itwas well to be fair, I think

(18:41):
he is. He was battling cancerand I think he's clear. But now
man em slippery is an as theman. But could it be a heel,
oh there's another fantastic musician. Heyeah. So this was interesting because
this is a little letter that isfrom or was published by Jeffrey Bless in

(19:06):
June of nineteen thirty four. Theletter is from I think Lieutenant Commander Ortie
Gould Okay. What's interesting about thisis that at a point in time this
is much the same as the sasquatchand big foodstuff. There's people that are
like legitimately approaching this, like thereis something in the lake. Let's find

(19:26):
out what it is. So hesays, finally, I come to the
most plausible theory of all, oneof which at present holds the field.
That is that the Lackness Monster belongsto the Pinnipedia and is in all likelihood
a large gray seal. The leadingexponent of this view is mister MS Hinton,

(19:48):
Deputy Keeper of Zoology at the NaturalHistory Museum, South Kensington. Other
authorities such as doctor C. H. Townsend, who is the director of
the New York Aquarium, Mister orElmhurst who is a superintendent or whatever,
and mister T sp who is Secretaryof the Scottish Geological Society, have also
expressed the same conclusion. Furthermore,since the return of the Daily Mail mission

(20:14):
that the paper has until recently lostno reasonable opportunity of advocating the sealed hery.
While the short note in Nature regardsthe mystery as finally being explained on
this basis, so it is undoubtedlytrue that there are many points in favor
of the supposition that X is somespecies of seal, presumably a gray seal,
since the latter just type known tooccur on the Scottish coast. Although

(20:38):
such seals have never been seen hithertoin Lockmots, there is no question that
one could find its way thither overland if necessary. Yeah, it's true.
Actually, yeah, then motherfucker's apparentlycan cross like a lot of land.
Yeah, yeah, like Milesley,I don't believe that, but the

(21:00):
man says it. It says itlike I did a bit of research and
lads were like, yeah, youfind them out on mountains. It's in
this bild. I think here soand so unusual an event might easily postpone
it's identification. A gray seal hasa long and surprisingly extensible neck, It
swims with a paddling action. Thecolor fits the bill, and there is

(21:21):
nothing surprising in its being seen onthe shore of the lock or crossing a
road where the man on the motorbikebeat beep. But like that would have
had to have been a fairly bigseal. But it was the middle of
the night, an the motorcyclist.If you think about it on ash if

(21:44):
you're driving, if you're driving ona motorbike and you see even a quarter
of a seal snake it into thegrass, that could look like the Lockness
monster. That's fair. And thenthey probably would have been a ripple by
the time he got to the lake, as the seal would have descended into
the as the moonlight cascaded on theripples. Oh yeah, very nice.

(22:04):
If I not reeds that seal havebeen encountered in the most unlikely places,
you believe. Some years ago onewas found halfway up a Scottish mountain,
serious miles from the sea. That'sgray seals have made thirty mile journeys over
rough country. There's some rageing though, like when thee realizes it's going the
wrong way from where the water isand they're fifteen miles in. That must

(22:27):
be some revelation. I don't knowif I believe that, but a dark
epiphany. But then there are rememberwe did very early days that the party
think was like like by cattle wasthere, there's this population of seals there
I can't remember, just there's thatwas that that that's that Russian leg with
the kind of oh by cat.Yeah, that had all the the aliens

(22:47):
were shooting, and so there's apopulation of seals there, I believe and
have also been there, and alsothey got there. I think seals are
funny like that, Like as longas they can keep eating fish, they
don't need to be in the water. They're just really garbage on land,
right, Yeah, they can justkeep flopping about like they're probably get a
bit of eggs amount or some dermatitis. You all have a bit, like
you have a bit of dermatitis herethere, Like I have a thing here

(23:11):
that's just him a few years ago. I can't really say. It's time
too long. Man. I triedto go back down into the salty,
riny waters of Tremore, but theyrejected me and my ilk. So something
like that. Man, that's like, that's right there. Sharks, Yeah,
you love water. I like water. I love water. I love

(23:33):
sharks. But never the twain shallmeet when I'm in there. That's what
I don't want to happen. Myworst fear is being savaged by a fish.
I know the word for shark inone hundred and ninety languages. I'll
never be caught unawares well, actuallyjust know in Portuguese and English. But
the point is that to brown.But the point is, can you imagine
what it feels like a shark's teethso serrated, so sharp that you don't

(23:56):
even feel your leg being beaten offyou? That's garbage that happens on land
too. I mean I was tellingyou that story of the gard again by
your own excel bullies and the polararm. You see the thing about the
but like the thing about that andthat, don't get me wrong, horrible
story, Like you can kind ofmitigate the risk of that by not having

(24:17):
excel bodies. Yeah, that does. It's like having a swimmer pool put
an alligator in. It's like,no, it's all about how you raise.
It's like I don't know, man, so yeah, I don't know.
But yeah, sharks for me,like that's that's scary. And that
part as well, because that's abig enough, a hefty enough shark.
And to me it looked like maybea bull, Yeah hammerhead maybe you know,

(24:41):
hammerhead. I take on a hammerhead. Won't be afraid of a hammerhead
bull shark. And it could evenbe a tiger, could even be a
tiger man. It's hard to knowwith the but the thing is, look
at how many people are there inthe Yeah, so that just for reference
or listeners, I said them anda clip was a crazy clip. Actually
dark swimming like in the shallows aroundpeople as they're swimming. It's one of

(25:03):
those I suppose it's one of thosebeaches where like the water gets deep quitequick.
But it's not like like there waspeople standing a good bit away.
It's probably sambar people where I wantto get maybe yeah, yeah, or
its just like that the land juststays kind of level. You know,
sharks are literally he may as well. He's worried about aliens of shark stocks.
If you stay out of the water, you're never going to make the

(25:23):
counts, right m m so likebut whatever, you're not going to go
into outer space. No, that'strue. You don't swim, so you'll
never you'll if you know, tobe fair, the president of Yeah,
it was a porch somewhere. It'syears ago, like the nineteen twenties or

(25:44):
whatever. He fell off a bridgeand got eaten by a shark. I
wouldn't even mind that. If ifI if and square they get you like
first off, yeah, I've cometo terms. And if I gone down
into the water, I'm dead right, But then if I land in the
water and a shark comes at me, I'm like, I'm supposed to die
here, fucking shock, You're supposedto die like that's supposed to happen,
Like he he has another purpose somewhereelse. Yeah, that's like no,

(26:08):
that is like literally, like youknow, do you think it's like things
like that that are so unlikely thatwhen they have it kind of it was
explained destiny. It's like he wasdestined to be savage by a fish after
falling off because it's so ridiculous.I think right at the moment, Rob
didn't the bridge Africa A fucking no, Like imagine I fell off Wexford Bridge

(26:30):
and a great white shark that hasnever been in Wexford ever or off the
course at me. Yeah, Liketo be fair, you probably weren't surviving
falling off Wexfort Bridge anyway, Iwould, do you think? So I
jumped back up? Yeah, offthe floor. You would fall into the
river right you go in and thena shark would be flung out onto the

(26:52):
road because you have seen it backthere, but you're giant muscles back of
super Mario. Wexford was his secondfavorite place after the mushroom Kingdom. Apparently
it was Yeah, I've seen himchasing some fireflies then round the time once
or twice a right after the stores. So yeah. So back to the
seals and their bizarre journeys. Soninetety five in October, an adult and

(27:18):
a four month old the uncommon sealseen together at Dockford where and near fires,
which was identified from photographs. Secondby mister John Bailey just told us
about eight seals sighted in fifteen years, an average of one seal entering Lockness
every two years. Two seals togetherwere seen on two occasions. The number

(27:41):
of seals reported by individual fishermen variedgreatly. One man had seen six seals
during the period. Some men havenever seen a seal. Seals and loacknetts
live, have good health and they'reusually seen around the mouth of the river
Marriston, although the present seel wasnot seen there. Seals lived in Locknesse

(28:02):
for up to seven months, soyeah, so basically they're just hanging around
there. You can see him swimmingdown the river nests sometimes so as possible.
We might see now seal frolicking around, yep, but it seems that
more seals that under lockness gets shot, all right, but a few there

(28:22):
just I don't know, I don'tknow, that's what it says in this
on. I'd say some of thefishermen down and kill Moore would love to
have that option. Yeah, theyget angry at the seeds from eating their
fish. I like seals, man, See, it's my favorite. So

(28:44):
this is like, this is we'regoing to get into kind of how they
could be misconstrued. I suppose asa lackness monster. So seals making successive
jumps, especially if seen silhouetted againstthe setting sun, et cetera, could
well look like a hunted serpent ora monster. Perhaps a proportion of sightings
of this lockness monster and other seaserpents maybe sightings of jumping seals. So

(29:07):
there's four seals at once, orthree or even just one kind of you
know, he's causing the waves.So seal jumps equal length jumps in fast,
close spaced rhythm, whereas the dolphinjumps and the jumps are space further
apart. Yeah, there there wasa lot of data here to suggest this,

(29:30):
and it goes through the likelihood ofit. It seems to be quite
likely. What do you think aboutseals in the lock aim and what do
you think about him much? Ireckon, I actually think I'm going to

(29:52):
go on on wax, as theysay, and I'm going to say that
I think that seals are probably themost like candidate for being the locknest man,
probably very likely in a place whereyou know the lockness monster is or
where sorry, where everyone says thelockness monster is Lockness. Now, you
don't be swimming very often, noattacks, but I would swim quite regularly

(30:15):
right in Saint Helen's oftentimes when yougo out there, there'd be a seal.
So my man would have swam outand like was out in the water
that had down right, and therewas like a seal, a fucking seal
right in front of her. Shefreaked out and she was like, oh,
Philip, my dad. He doesn'tswim. He was firing. I'd

(30:37):
be more gin. He drinks hiredliquor. He can operate perfectly normal and
light beer. So but what Iwould say is, you see the little
heads of the seals pretty regularly whenyou go out there. I would never
mistake them for an aquatic sort ofmonster personally, But like not to say

(31:00):
you wouldn't. But obviously I've neverseen them jumping up and down the lock
like that. To me, itseems a bit strange that the pictures we
see of the humps, right,I don't know what are they saying that
that's just the way that the wateris going, because like it seemed to
me like they were saying that's theway the seal would look at at a

(31:22):
part certain point of jumping in oryeah, just moving through out the water
to kind of bob up and downin the water to make it look like
when it's doing that active, Yeah, the waves would just go up and
ground. Yeah, maybe because onthe back itself of the way, but
then you have to have so that'swhat I was saying. There would have
to be like three of them,not necessarily because like if you're watching something

(31:42):
bobbing up and down in the water. Sorry, I'm I was thinking more
about taking an image of something.So this is more sighting because yeah,
the image you'd imagine where there's alot of humps that there's a few humpy
you know, there's not humpbacks actuallyyeah, probably not like they don't look

(32:08):
not like what we have at Blacknessem and and this is the truth of
us. It's almost as if we'vedone three episodes what we have and the
best of what we have we coveredin last week the speedy thing that's the
best. Yeah, that's the best. That's definitely not a sealing, that'd
be fair to say, no,that's yeah. But any of the footage

(32:30):
that we have, Yeah, oneis a hawks, which is the sergeants
photograph. The most famous one isa massive Hawks. Then all the rest
of them are that which them looklike they just could be anything waves.
So really, what you're going onat this point is written sightings and witness

(32:51):
accounts, which is totally fine,by the way, and I totally think
all of them are valid, whichis why, which is why we're doing
this, And that's what I'm saying. Like I would say the seal is
like in terms offocation, Yeah,for sure, Like that's that's the thing
I think to me, that's themost plausible because like they would look weird,
and like a seal would look weirdthan a lake. If okay,

(33:15):
we have a leg up in thequarry that Carryfoile Leg quarry, Yeah,
if there's a fucking ceiling there,that would look weird as fuck. I
think part of the reason is becausemost times when you see a seal,
there's not as much distance, sothere's not a mile of lake, Whereas
if you're at a certain point yousee looking with the binoculars or something like

(33:37):
that, you can see how youwould misconstrue that, Whereas any times I've
seen a seal, they haven't beenmuch further than say, to the war
maybe twice. And Gracias gray seelsright, they're they do look like some
of the accounts of Nessie where they'retalking about like a whitish grayish belly and
they usually have those kind of lalots of splatchy and their tail like like

(34:01):
I put a clip in in inour notes of just someone swimming with a
grass seel and like when you watchthat, you're like, oh, yeah,
do you know what, Like youcould see how someone maybe would think
it's something that's not supposed to bein the length. They do have their
little flippers as well. Yeah,yeah, Like so the shape of a

(34:22):
seal, like if you were toput the pleasosaurs this, if you were
to put a plesiosaur's head on topof a seal's body, it would look
kind of right, you know,like it wouldn't be that much of a
mismatch to where you're like, thisis some kind of weird monster. It
would look like a pleasius or almostlike their their form is very similar.
Yeah, since most of the signingshead coming out of the water. Yeah,

(34:45):
yeah, no, that's fair becauselike most sightings that we see and
we hear are like I seen disturbancein the water, I see like some
kind of like blobby whatever. Sothat to me so far after doing these
notes a grass seel fair as well. It's like there's obviously reports of them
being there, They've been found there, they've been found in the lock.
They blow them up with shotguns forsome reason when they do go in there.

(35:09):
So yeah, Okham's razor would suggestthat it would like, so we're
gonna get weird them. And thiswas one that you liked the sounds of,
and so I'll talk a bit aboutafter your readers. There's there's a
couple of interesting theories with this,but this is basically Alistair Crowley, who,
as we and all is very falsenearby in Bleskin or lived nearby in

(35:29):
Bleskin House at the time, sotake it away. So during his life
Alistair Crowley purchased a property known asthe Bowl Skin bowl Less Skin House and
so the Bowl of Skin House.Crowley claimed he sought isolation to practice the
rituals of the Book of Sacred Magicof Abra Abramelin the Mage Thank You.

(35:50):
During this period, it is believedthat he successfully summoned an ancient demon,
which some speculate is the Lockness Monster. An al BBC document entry mentions that
Crowley confessed to a friend and fellowoccultist that he had summoned twelve kings and
dukes of Hell, but did notbut had not had the chance to dispel
them before leaving for Paris, sopoor time management on Alistair's part. This

(36:15):
unfinished business purportedly left a portal open, allowing whatever entities Crowley had summoned to
linger in Lockness and its surroundings.In summary, the theory suggests that Crowley
conjured the Lockness Monster during his timeat Bowla's Skin House and died before dispelling
the demon or any others he hadsummoned during the period. There's a lot
of stuff surrounding. Magic in thelock sadly involves the original photo hookers,

(36:39):
Doc Shields and Patrick Kelly and so, as Rob said, it is of
cack reliability. Yes, so there'sa lot of really fucking cool shit.
And I was really annoyed when Irealized that was the original hawksers. There
was like cool ass fucking stories aboutlike was it like a con shell and

(36:59):
like something like a Chinese dragon beingsummoned and that's why it looks like,
you know, in the water,And there was a whole bunch of really
cool shit about it. But whenyou realize that it was all part of
that like original kind of Daily MailHawks, you're like, fuck, Like
it's really annoying because it was cool, it was substantial. There's a lot

(37:21):
to it, and you're like,nice, Now that's not a takeaway from
the Alistra Crowley stuff. So likethe Crowley stuff, you know, like
Crowdley is a very fascinating character.Will definitely do an episode on him,
or maybe even a few, becausehe's that much of a sort of a
he's intertwined with a lot of thingsthat we've talked about talked about on the

(37:42):
pod, including like paranormal stuff andall that. But and he's just an
interesting day to talk about anyway.But have you been have you ever heard
Grand Marson, who wrote Arkham Asylum. No, have you ever heard him
talk about conjuring up entities? It'smad fascinating. Ye yeah, he's he

(38:04):
does like that sort of stuff,and he says about he's conjured up giant
face of John Lennon and all thatsort of stuff. But it's really interesting
because Alister Crowley is sort of soshrouded. Maybe not as much to you
because your dad was something to him, but I was like, it's like
a big witchy thing, which seemedvery fantastical. But when Grant Marrison talks
about his like read like most ofhis Batman stuff, and so when I'm

(38:28):
listening to him, I'm like,this dude, like he believes what he's
saying and maybe he is doing ityea. And so when you listen to
that, well he's like not amodern day Aleister Crowley, but he's a
very but he's a very smart guyas well. When he listened to him
talk the depth he goes into aboutcomic books and like what they represent in

(38:49):
society. I think he wrote abook called Superheroes and it's like all about
what the myth ask But the fellowwho wrote this is also conjuring up into
the which is interesting. It is, yeah, because if you read like
any sort of you know, anysort of like Booker diary of someone that
like practices magic, like, yeah, I do believe exactly what they're saying,

(39:13):
but much the same as how youwould believe a Christian would believe what
they're saying, or you know,Muslim mode or whatever. It's it's that
kind of belief level where it's like, yep, you know, So do
you think that they're just kind oflike so enraptured and caught up in it
that they're sort of No, Idon't, I don't, I don't know.
I actually have no idea, tobe honest. Like, so that's

(39:36):
what I'm saying about Alistir Crowley islike, at the very least, Alistair
Crowley was like almost like a trustfund lunatic. Yeah. Yeah, he
was like mad eccentric, had alot of money at his disposal, and
was just a headen has two,had a good crack, like created a
bunch of fucking lunatic shit stories andall that. And that's at the very

(40:00):
least. But then if there's anymore to it, you're like all ship,
like, Okay, there's a lot. He was kind of like,
and not that he did anything massivelyillegal to the extent that Charles Manson did,
but he's almost like that kind ofa yeah yeah, he kind of
yeah, yeah, like just superhippy, very interesting, just an interesting

(40:20):
guy. He's one of them there. It was just like, yeah,
very interesting to talk. Apparently heregretted a lot of it at the end
of his life. He wanted hewas like, my life is a bit
like I'm just old. Never Yeah, he spent too much of his life
trying. It was like a mountainair and all. He was big at
the Hiker. It was in likea lot of fucking sketch situations when he
was honest. But it's the waythey're all hedonistic lives end where you realize

(40:43):
that you've had nothing of substance.And now he probably has sometimes but sometimes
I sometimes, but also other timeshe's just got I don't regret. Yeah,
there's very little of the dumb stuffI did when I look back and
I go, I wish I hadn'tdone that, Like, yeah, that
was pretty awesome. I mean,if it's hating us had about for Crowley
is probably fucking writing a Lord ofOnes and all them. Didn't he have
a thing where like he would makepeople hand job them. And he was

(41:07):
like, don't stop, I don'tknow no matter what. And he said
that like when someone has a climax, there as in tune with the universe
as you possibly can be. Andthat's the time where you like, well
I don't shoot out here the great. Yeah there's something. There probably is
something to that. There's probably sexmagic. Yeah, yeah, there probably
is something to live with that,because like you're creating potentially in from the

(41:30):
possibility. I suppose That's why wheneverI climax, I always always in that
regard. I mean, like whatyou're actually barthing or cold? Absolutely,
it's possibilities, right, Like you'reshooting possibilities into creations. Yeah. Creation
home is a kind of a universe. So right, if you believe that

(41:52):
a Crowley conjured up the Blackness Master, that is probably the most interesting terry
we have. Another one we havehere is is it just waves. So
the interesting thing about this is AdrianShine, who was dedicated to the last
twenty five years of study in NeSSI. Drian Chine's a good Laddie's done a
lot of good work. Were LocknessI'm not sure if he's still actually at
the Lockness Center and stuff like that. I think that's in drum the dracket,

(42:15):
right, but I'm not sure ifhe's still at it, but definitely
at it for a long time.He says. The most of the sidings
that of a card can be attributedto giant sub surface water movements, some
of them as large as one hundredand thirty one feet. Shine told ABC
he believes that friction between different layersof water create these unusual tidal patterns which

(42:36):
have led people to believe they havespotted a monster, and this could explain
many of the sightings. He said, he's not sure what he believes really.
Shine says that, yeah, heruns the last Lockness project. Everer
says the underwater waves could be attributedto Loachness's location on flat line. Yeah,
so Lockness actually runs on a faultline, which is quite interesting,
okay, as well as his positionfacing winds to the southwest. Another theory

(43:02):
is bubbles and bubbles, So onthis fault line there's obviously gases and so
you do get like an efforts.Yeah, yeah, that makes sense,
that makes sense. So even thatis mysterious. You see a bunch of
fucking bubbles on a leg. Itkind of inspires you able to think,

(43:23):
like what the fuck is that?Like, what's going on there? Or
so. Shine has also sought toprove that the Blackness Master could be a
hoax before. In nineteen ninety three, in an effort to convince the locals
that Nessie maybe a little more thana big fish, he grew a Baltic
sturgeon in a pandaz there we go, right, So the experiment was designed

(43:44):
to show that large fish could surviveand grow in an environment like Blackness,
which provides meager nutrients for fish.His sturgeon still lives in the ponte,
says, so that sturgeon is likeable to live on not a whole lot.
My uncle has a sturgeon in hislike little pond. Yeah, I
wonder, I wonder our sturgeon's kindof then one of them creatures where like

(44:07):
like they can be as big oras small as the body of water or
in kind of thing, Yeah,like that kind of dwarf ism. Yeah,
yeah, they just keep going andgoing. So that the other the
other thing to note about Blacknet's whichI didn't actually realize going into doing this
whole episode is that they've analyzed theDNA from samples of the water to just

(44:28):
taken water and look for the NA. Obviously they've never found a plais or
sadly as much as I loved loveto, but they also found no catfish
and catfish can get quite big.So catfish, like that was a theory.
People were like, it's a bigass catfish and their catfish can get
sucking huge. No catfish, nosturgeon. So those were the too likely

(44:51):
candidate stuff people, which means thatseal obviously it's probably and like seals are
rare, so like the it's notlike they're there all the time, and
so like if they are something that'sjust visited for a time and they're gone
again, yeahs would make sense.Yeah, so I don't know, like
what what what do you think?Like we've kind of that those are the

(45:13):
best theories really, So that's whatyou've got there is the main things,
Like as you said in the lastepisode, it's it's connected to the open
sea. Yeah, so like thatwould mean that it's possible that maybe things
that shouldn't be there can be there. So even when we talked about whales,

(45:35):
like dolphins maybe yeah, yeah,well dolphins would be another one,
and they swim in pods, solike that's possible. But even the way
the whales and that the head ofthe Luckness Monster looks a bit like the
fallst during the season. Yes,yes, so I think all of those
things are possibilities. Seals are definitelylike probable because they're like, yeah,

(45:57):
we found them there before they're there. They do this, the fault lines
that makes sense as well. Ithink all of those things make sense.
The whale probably less or so,well, definitely less or so, but
still it's more probable than a pleaseus or in the lock But I would
like to believe. I would liketo believe that there is an ancient beast
lurking in lockness if it was upto me to make the decision, and

(46:20):
not probability, That's what I wouldlike to say. Without the Lockness Monster,
I would go as far as tosaid that this podcast probably wouldn't exist.
It's the same as Bigfoot. It'sfor me. It was one of
those things that I heard as achild, and we mentioned in the first
part of this episode. I wouldhave, you know, seen it in
the sun and all those rags whenI was younger. I'm pretty sure we
heard about Lockness before Bigfoot, eventhat book that monster. Yeah, so

(46:50):
so without that, like, that'swhy it's so important, which is why
it was fun to do like athree part because you want to trade it
with because like on this orface,lot of people would just go ay as
a hawks or whatever, but it'snot because there's been thousands of sightings and
that's the reality. And and thepeople that like, there's no way that
it's a thousand bullshitter that set ofscene there, they're like, as there

(47:13):
could be one hundred. But therehave been hoaxes. There's also been legitimate
people thinking they've seen something, andthen there's been historical accounts. Yeah,
story accounts. The monk that obviouslyupended the Blackness Monster. But even like
you said, that video that showssomething moving very quickly through the lock that's

(47:34):
pretty interesting. Yeah. No,look, I think, uh, mysterious
lake monsters are always very interesting,and something like Nessie is the King,
It's motherfucking thing and legs. Yeah, NeSSI has like family movies about us.
Yeah, like none of the othermonster, none the other lake monsters
have that. No, And yeah, I think especially if you're in the

(47:58):
UK UK right, Ireland. Iwould say that Nessie was probably your intro
into cryptozoology, so we definitely wantedto give it like the respect that desire.
There's no more famous cryptid in WesternEurope, and the Lockness Monster that's

(48:19):
like the most famous. And that'sthe thing. So like, even though
to me Lockness Monster is less plausiblethan even like a big Foot, I
still think, like if I everhear sightings going forward, I would still
give them the full time of daysimply because there has been that amount of
noise made around the lake that likeit's always worth to investigate. It could

(48:43):
be something interesting there as well.We can use it for content, which
is and I've never I never reallymentioned it in these episodes, but like
there's been fucking countless TV shows abouttrying to find the Lockness Monster, and
like all of the meuse like likeso on our huge nets. Like people
if you like, literally calmed thatleg as best as they can now they

(49:06):
might be able to get down asdeep as they can do. But like
it's probably one of the moss argelegs in the world, if not the
massage leg, and you would thinkthat they would they have something, and
that's what makes it a bit differentfrom like big Foot is like Lockness Master
has no or the heights unless likeyou're talking about sea caves or it gets

(49:27):
down and then look, you getinto that whole idea when we started about
liminal space, trying to get intothe madness. So maybe it's that the
lockness you see a representation of theother world, but it comes through as
the Lockness Monster because that's what youassociate with it, which is more fucking
bizarre than a pleating in the proup there don as mad for the magic?

(49:50):
Maybe did he? Stuff like thatcan't happen up there, two people.
It is a pretty cool idea thatlike dozens of demonic entities, just
like Ray Scotland. That's like theplot to Garago. Yeah, yeah,
no, man, I think it'sall It's still while we I think have
more or less kind of posed mostof the answers that you could get out

(50:14):
of a Lackness episode, I dothink it's still interesting. There's probably still
a bit of room for thoughts.We'll be curious to hear what you people
think. Right in, let usknow what do you think the Lackness Monster
is? Do you think it's orlyof a comment actually in YouTube. Do
you think it's there's more to itor do you think it's literally a hoax.

(50:34):
The thing to remember always is there'sbeen a lot of signs. So
what we've worked to do here isI suppose give an answer to some of
those signs. But maybe there's acouple of signs you've heard that you think
are more like a you know,a good wedge of Scottish listeners. Do
you know anyone or like did yourgranda say I'd like to hear some little

(50:54):
colloquial stories of what was going onthere? Yes, all I think to
believe it there for this three partor this bumper episode, it was something
kind of new. We haven't donelike a series together like that. Really
three episodes? No, no,not ye. So yeah, I hope

(51:15):
you guys enjoyed that chain. It'llbe fun for us to change topic as
well, because like, decrypted stuffis fantastic, but it's always like what
happens with decrypted stuff is like ifyou're trying to actually prove that it's a
crypti, you never end up withan answer, so you're whereas with ghost
stuff and alien stuff, it's abit more open decrypted stuff. You're like,

(51:37):
yeah, there's not a lot oflike there is to be fair in
the next ghost when there is,unfortunately, it's a bit of misidentification,
like so it's almost the luckness ofa highway in America. But you know,
but look, it's a What Ilike about those is you've got this.
It's kind of it's similar enough tothis sort of stuff, but the
tone is different, a more ghostlyand ethereal, and it's less beastly and

(52:00):
monstrous. Yeah, but when Iwas at the time, the listeners have
heard that we have been to theLockness, have we been eating? We
will be the legendary broad the legendarybroadcasters who perished searching for the Lockness.
As a matter of fact, thatas people are listening to us, if
you're listening to it on the dayof release, will probably be driving around
Lockness, which is quite interesting.But I hope you've enjoyed this episode,

(52:23):
folks. I've been robbed. I'mbeen ming Lockness, Monster Don and Dush
Song. Bye Bye.