Halloween Shenanigans with Tim Renner From Stange Familiars

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
A little crypt and this is a script. I wanted
to quit against my anemies. Yeah you see, you wanted
to say, and then at little raise you, but I
forget you from the weird.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
And welcome this strange fuzzed monster familiar.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
What are we calling it, familiars, I spose, Yeah, Welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
To our our now annual many years tradition of the
monster fuzz strange Familiars foween episode. How you doing, guys, good?

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, are very good, Very good on yourself, Tim, I'm
doing all right, hanging there.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
It's like it's a four years then, I think, is
it now? Which is I think it might be like,
which is a kind of a mad achievement for a
few reasons I want is that And you're going a
lot longer than all spot, so for both of our
podcasts to be still gone that long, but also to
have this tradition for that long is quite a coold thing.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Actually, it really is cool.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
And and here it is four years and neither one
of us has gotten rich yet.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
No, it's not looking good, looking good.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
I got into this podcast game for the promise of riches.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
We got in literally as the hours fled out as well,
which was the funny part, Like I think it was
like add apocalypse happened in like January, we came into
the April.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
That was no that I am very happy I did.
This is not me complaining for anyone listening. I love
my job and I happen to get in at the
right time, and you know, we're here Ford the love
of the game to him, you know, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry,
we're Hereford the love of the game. There you go exactly,
Oh yeah, No. I absolutely love my job. I love

(01:56):
it like I can't get en up. And times I'm like,
you know, on the editing side, I might get frustrated
or tired or something, but then like you get to
this side of it where you get to just talk
about weird stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
And it's just like, man, I think there's people that
just have a compulsion in them to share stuff, and
whether it be a story, whether it be music. And
you're a musicians well yourself. But I always found, at
least with myself, that there was always something that compelled
me to put stuff out there. And I don't know
why that is. It's not even a thing where necessarily

(02:28):
I want to feedback, even but I just enjoy sharing
things with people, I think a little bit and podcasting
square for that.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, I've come upon this theory lately and people are
going to soon get tired of me saying it, but
it felt revelatory to me, so I find myself saying
it again and again. And not to get religious or anything,
but if you're reading the Bible, we're creating the image
of God.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
I don't know if we look a thing like God,
but I think how we are like God is that
we create, and I think we get something from that,
you know. And and I for me personally, I have
to be creating. Flip into a depression if I'm not creating.
And that can take the form of anything for people.
That could be cooking, it could be raising a family,
it could you know, it doesn't have to be drawing

(03:13):
or making a podcast or painting or whatever. But I
do think it's important, you know. I think it's important
part of the human process.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, and if you think about humans in general, that's
kind of what we do. We just keep creating and
making different versions of the same things we've been making.
Like you've even talking about just getting the iPhone. They're like,
we don't need all the iPhones that we have Bush
It's like it's it's it's in our DNA to just
keep reiterating things and changing things. Like even when you

(03:41):
think about stories, you know, how did they say there's
only like eight stories really in certain terms of templates,
but there's in calculate amounts of stories. Even people just
have stories in their own heads that they like to
play around with without ever writing you know, oh yeah
for sure.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah they say that in like, yeah, big franchises, stuff
like Game of Thrones even one of the biggest, like
a lot of that was reference and just.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Historical wars and things like that.

Speaker 3 (04:06):
It was all very referential for things that have already
stories that have already been told, things that have already occurred.
So yeah, nostra very sure.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Speaking a Game of Thrones, are we taking bets on
if George R or Martin will ever finish that we.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Can do for Halloween? A spooky fright would be if
he was to finish it.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Now I think it's more likely that he doesn't.

Speaker 3 (04:30):
Yeah, I know he probably wants, and to be fair
to him, he much like ourselves, probably loves creating and
he got hit with a big, massive wave of love
and adoration once the show came out, and I think
he just went look at the amount of doors that
have opened for me. There's so many things now that
I can do that I wasn't able to do before.

(04:51):
And he's he's doing video games stories, he's doing other
spin off.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
The lore of that.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
Yes it's not really Eve game, right, Yeah, it's just
like so so I think no Old finished Doll's books,
which is a crying shame.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
It's a great story there, but.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
You know he has gone on to gift us with
a lot of other stuff. So yeah, it's interesting. Have
you got any plans actually him for Halloween? Before we
get into the stories, have you have you got anything
on this year?

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Oh, it's my anniversary, which wasn't all Yeah, we didn't
do that on purpose, and we were meant to get
married on All Saints, but the person who married us
was not available. We like heathens, we married outside, but
whoever's gonna marry us wasn't available at that time and
they were only available in Halloween, so we ended up

(05:42):
doing it on Halloween in hexallow, like why not go
all the way and do it? Do it completely spooky? Uh,
there was just the you don't have to even have
a witness in Pennsylvania, So it was just the person
to performed the ceremony and Alison and myself cold and
in a in a lonely spot in hex. So we'll
probably do something for She likes to give out candy

(06:04):
and see the kids in the costumes, and the neighborhoods
will probably get dinner or something after that.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
How's that looking for you?

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Was over there because like last year, myself and Cara
got like all of the suits and stuff ready, and
we have all the stuff ready for trigger traders, and
no one called really really, yeah, we're in a built
up like we're in a built up straighters, you know.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Funny enough, I'm only up the street from you. But
we had like we're busy, you know.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
Now. What I have heard is and we didn't have
this was that. I think one of the like the
modern folklore things is if you don't have your front
light on your torch, no one will call it to
your house.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Oh we had. Yeah, that's actually not a law here,
but it's kind of like a thing like if nobody
if the light isn't on, don't bother people.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Even see, we didn't know that now.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, yeah, I know what we had, Like the place
laid up. There was ghouls hanging out of the side
of the house and everything. So we all take all
that down this weekend to get it ready, and then
I dressed up his blanket and put on the pa
so like kids were answering the door and they're like, whoa,
which is really fun. There was one I was so cute. Man.
There was one little kid. He couldn't have been older
than three years old. He was tiny, and his mom

(07:15):
was at the end of the drive. So I answered
the door, like you just have the Knox, so you know,
I didn't know who was on the other end. I
just opened the door and I'm there dressed like a
you know, six foot two, green sort of ogre and
the little tiny he was so solid, like he was
just so tidy, and he looked up at me and
he just went, what are you doing? And I gave

(07:38):
him loads of sweets because he was just hilayerus and
his man was kind of giggling in the background. Yeah,
we got loads of people, some of the kids that
were little that probably missed it, maybe because of COVID stuff,
you know, and they're catching up. Soo his kids that
were like maybe just too old, but they were super
well behaved kids, really nice, like we were little assholes
and we were kids. Yeah yeah, oh man, yeah, but

(08:00):
you know these kids were really nice and they were
like they got me really good. They're like, are you
meant to be that green guy out of Street Fighter?
And I was like, oh, yeah, totally. You know, these
kids are maybe like eleven or twelve, and then one
of them goes, yeah, my dad likes that game. Okay, yeah,
all right, see you guys later. Sweets.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
We we always get a group or two of it's
like high school kids basically.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
He's like all right, and I always made I was like,
so some of them, if they if they really try
they have a costume, fine, and then something just show
up in whatever street closing where it's like, you got
to come up with a cost tell me what you are.
At least make something up and I'll give you some candy.
And I've had some good with some kids come up
some pretty funny stuff. It's like, what are you supposed
to be? They'll come up with I can't think of

(08:47):
anything off the top of my head, but they've they've
definitely made me laugh.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Before. That's pretty good. Made me laugh.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
You get candy.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
A kind of I know you Americans call it fall
over there, and I assume it's supposed to leave swallow
of the trees. But al at that point, now we've
in the last week or two now all the leaves
are truly coming off the trees.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Even with I notice, even with the climate change, although
it has cooled off a live here now, but even
when it doesn't, the the native trees no, and I
think they they judge fall by the change in the length.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Of the days.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Right, the native trees will start even not so much,
but it still takes some cold we think ruin, but
they'll start even before it gets really cold. And then
the non native trees are like, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (09:35):
You're right on that one, actually, because I have some
non native trees out in the back and they haven't
started at all, like they're kind of all over the place.
They still think they're on holidays or you know what
I mean. Yeah, but the natives are kind of getting
ready properly.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah, I got one like that. It's kind of really
nice to see as well. It's going that deep red
and parts of the tree or sort of the lighter,
and there's even bits that are twinged with green. But
it's just the one tree. But it's like a lovely
little sort of index of where things are going.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
I told the story on Strange Fermiliers last week, but
I'll do an abbreviated version. I don't know if I
told the last part of it, which is is Halloween
adjacent if not directly related. I saw a UFO. I
was on I walk at night, often by myself, and
I saw UFO with a white globe bigger than a
shooting star, and it didn't have a tail on it

(10:28):
like a shooting star does, but it did move in
a straight line kind of down through the sky. I
don't believe it's a shooting star. It was unlike any
shooting star I've ever seen, so it was really neat.
I was very excited about it, and I was I
was leaving a voice message to my friend Tera at
the time about something I'm related, and while it happens
a real time and goes, oh, Tera, I saw UFO,
and I'm describing at real time, and I'm all excited

(10:50):
and so forth, and I go to hit send on
the voice message and it disappears, Oh, no way, and
it was one of I have probably ten voice messages
I left, or I had two previous to that, and
probably you know, however many four or five, six after that,
whatever it was. But that's the only one that it did.
And it was on Instagram. And if you do a
voice mentioned on Instagram on your phone, the send buttons

(11:13):
on one side that you know, if you don't want
to send it, the trash can or whatever is on
the other side. No way, I hit the wrong you
know what I mean. It's not like I hit the
wrong button. I hit send and it just went poof disappeared.
So that was interesting. And then walked around a bit
and I had weird knocks that seemed to follow me
for about five minutes, Like as I walked through these alleys,

(11:35):
I would hear these little knocks on fences and stuff.
Very strange.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
How fire away with the UFO been, It's.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
So hard to tell. Yeah, it it depends how big
it was.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
You know.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's just a black sky and this white globe in it.
So I yeah, I really can't make a guess, but.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
I need to get out more at nighttime.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
It does.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
One thing I do lack is like I'm not usually
out for all at night, and it's funny because I'm
a night I will bust. I never think to go
I mustard because I said, now, if you're watching the
alle night sky, yeah, that was spooky.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Every time I drive home from your house, I take
a short cut through like one of the industrial states,
and there's barely anyone there, and every night I have
this thought that like a saucer is just gonna abduct me,
and I don't want it to happen. I'm like, no,
I don't because we talk about all this stuff on
the podcast and it seems like the perfect place to
sort of listen, you know what I mean. But yeah, no,

(12:31):
I think I'm it's really interesting. Yeah, I've been listening
a lot to a lot of the all the UAP
stuff and various podcasts about it.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
And yeah, so Chad, my buddy Chad's that next morning
on his way to work, he saw a strange ufil.
But anyway, on on the the rest of my walk,
so I end up I walk to a place it's
like an all place I can get a cup of
coffee PCAF. That's how I reward myself from my I

(12:59):
walked about seven miles or something.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Walk.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Yeah, I reward myself with a you know, when it's cold,
I'll get a nice cuple of decalf And I can't.
I'm old now, guys, I can't handle caffeine anymore.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
Like that. I'm like that too, and I'm going a
bit younger than.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
I like to write the line between having a panic
attack being full of adreines.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
So I drink way too much coffee, So get my
coffee and I'm walking home and it's it's, uh, you know,
just me on the street at this point. It's probably
almost one in the morning something like that, so there's
no one out, and I like, like, I like walking
lonely like that nice. And I hear this weird like

(13:41):
sounds like children's laughter or something in the distance lot,
you know, I'm like, what is that?

Speaker 3 (13:47):
That is eerie?

Speaker 2 (13:48):
And it was real eerie sounding, like oh my gosh,
what is this, like, you know, after the UFO and
the Knox and everything. I'm like whoa. And I get
a little closer and like, wow, that is really creepy sounding.
So I'm I walk about three blocks and I finally
get to it, and the wind was blown pretty well
that night, and these people had this Halloween witch hanging
out front of their house, and every time a branch

(14:10):
from the tree would go in front of it would
trigger the it had a start cackling. Every time I
was hearing this witch is Halloween dark curation cackle from
from streets and streets away, I was like it sounded
so eerie, though, but I was like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
And you know what, I thought, that's it's funny because like,
I actually like stories like that, and I like stories
when it comes down to cryptosipology stuff as well, where
it ends up being something really explainable because it in
some way adds where what would it be veracity to
the claims or something, Because you know a lot of

(14:46):
times when people hear someone's report, you're like, ah, they
could be making it up, whatever, whatever, And then you
read a story where maybe there's a cluster of people
who have sight ins or something, and you're like, are
these people just makeing up? But then you actually get oh, no,
it was this thing and here we've done, we found it.
So those kind of incidents I find always lend weight
to like people reporting stuff that they see. So I

(15:08):
always trying and keep that in mind as well, because
sometimes I'm a bit cynical with stories were crypted stuff
and I'm like, ah, someone just making it up for cloud.
Do I want to be on the pod whatever?

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Whatever.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
But like a lot of times when people say they
see what they see or the hair, what the hair
they are hearing or seeing what they're saying? Do you
know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
You got careful tim because that's like that's the precursor
to the jump scare in a movie. You know, like
it's like, oh, the laugh thing was just the trigger,
but then like the camera pans right and there's an
actual witch or something that jumps, you know, exactly.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
Like one night I was walking and I thought I
saw it like a like a ten foot tall shadow
person and it walked up. It was really strange, and
it walked up behind these sort of apartment buildings that
are on this one of the streets I walk on,
and I was really fascinated with I was like, that's
really unusual. I don't know how that could happen. And
then as I walked further, I saw there was a

(16:03):
guy on the sidewalk and I was like, could that
have been his shadow? And like there's no way because
it looked it literally looked like it walked away from
him and behind this apartment building, and all night I
was kind of thinking about it, and I'm like, man,
I think I saw a shadow person. This was really weird.
And the last thing I did before I went home,
I was like, you know what, I'm gonna walk right
by that building right where that guy did. And I
did it. And it's just the way there was weird lights,

(16:25):
like street lights and people's lights from the houses, just
coming in all directions, and it was enough when I
walked by, my shadow did the same thing. Right, That's
that's all it was. But it like for a long
time like I saw a shadow person. But yeah, that's
all it was. It was just different lights. It just
it was a weird trick of light and shadow.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
That's all it was.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah. Sometimes it can be really convincing as well. Sometimes
you can see or field something and they're like, what
are you ever?

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Really kind of because I find sometimes I see something
and it takes your brain just a millisecond to figure
out what it is. But it's like you don't get
that adrenaline response, like if you saw an actual cryptid,
wouldn't you be like, oh god whatever? But sometimes you
see something that you think looks like something bizarre until
your brain kind of recalibrates. And there's a part of

(17:10):
me that kind of half believes that when you see
something like that, the thing is as you've seen it,
and it just like quickly trans transmogrifies itself to like
be things like, oh no, that's fine, don't already, that's
how you're it.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
In an instance, one of my favorite bigfoot stories from
where the footprints then that we collected is it was like,
I think it was a young kid who was out
he was hunting at it. He was looking through a
scope and he's watching a big foot to a scope
and he's it's kind of just like making its way
slowly down the hill. And then he sees these two
hunters kind of head down the same hill and he

(17:45):
watches the bigfoot, in his words, turn into a tree. Yeah,
And these two hunters walk by, and he said he
could see one of them looked over at it and
jumped as if he saw something like like freaky and
then sort of settle down like like almost like what
you're what you're saying, Aman, Like he jumped, He's like
saw something that he was Oh no, it's just a tree,
you know.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, I like, I'm pretty I'm pretty convinced that that
is just happening all around us all the time, like
all the you know, major physicists, even back as far
as Plato, who obviously wasn't a physicist but he was
a philosopher and a thinker or whatever.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
You know.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
It's all about what we see of reality isn't actually reality,
you know, if we could see nature for how it
truly is, so, you know. But then like there's times
when I'm at home alone and I see something in
the corner of the room and I just quickly remind myself, no, no,
reality is just no normal. Don't worry about it. Everything's fine.
But yeah, no, I do think there's you know, there's

(18:40):
constantly things around us that are morphing and moving and shaping. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Yeah, the the world is alive with strange things.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Absolutely, it would be a good time for them to
step into the light now, because everything else is so
strange and bizarre, it's a great time for us to
accept them.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, Like maybe maybe we could. I don't know,
I don't know. Things are weird.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, how how is it over there for you? Guys.
At the moment, it's odd man.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, it's just an odd you know what. It reminds
me of the pandemic. And during the pandemic, people got
like edgy and like everybody's on edge, and and it
didn't bring out the best in some people. You know.
I think people were easily angered some people. And it
feels like that again, it really feels like that. Just

(19:36):
people are just easily angered. And I think I refuse
to talk politics on the show. I think it's it's pointless,
but I think that, you know, people being divided is
not a good thing, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, no, it never it never really tends to work
in the end, does it.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's h it's tense.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
We'll put it well, hopefully it will all sort itself
out over time. I think sometimes we need things like
this to happen to like for the long term, if
that makes sense. In the moment, it's scary and it's weird,
but maybe in the long term it leads to something better. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, I have general faith in humanity and yeah, in
the general goodness of people, and and to be able
to find common ground with our neighbors, you know, whatever
whatever sign they put out for whatever political otis. I
refuse to hate my neighbor because I put a sign
for a politician I don't like. I absolutely refuse to
do that. So I have confidence that when we get

(20:38):
to know each other and we talk and we share
stories and we share our lives with people, they will
soften and things will be okay. We just need to
need to have that conversation again, and you know, just
people need to sit down and talk to each other.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
For sure. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
All right, now you got all deep. Now, now what
are we going to do? Hit these Halloween stories?

Speaker 1 (21:00):
All right?

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah, let's hit them, man. Yeah, we got some good ones.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, there's some interesting stories. Yes, it was last minute,
and I forgot to say it on the show. We
had talked about it, I don't know how long ago,
and I said, oh yeah, I'll announce it on the
show and asked for it for stories, and I forgot
to and then I put it up on Patreon. So
I got some stories that way. But you know, I
think we would have probably gotten more i'd announced on

(21:23):
the show.

Speaker 3 (21:24):
So yeah, I'm Sam. Yeah, I kind of got away
from us this here. Actually, Halloween's a couple of things
on I said on my podcast as well. On our podcast,
we kind of talked about that it's just a busy
time for me. Notice here in particular, it was with
Halloween we'd be pushing about out a lot more, but
just kind of jumped up on.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Us this year, Oh for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, with the move to spectro vision and everything else,
it's it's just a busy, busy time for me as well.
So the first one comes from Kevin, and I just said,
you know, it's in any Halloween story if it's it
doesn't have to be paranormal. It can be funny, it
could just be a sweet story, whatever you have. Just
you know, we just look for Halloween stories in general.
So Kevin said. Every year, the local boy Scout camp

(22:03):
hosts a Haunted hay Ride event in southeast Wisconsin. Our
troop will be part of the show, scaring folks on
hay wagons as they passed. The boys mostly stick together.
I like to go off a bit to get a
good jump scare. Last year, my son had been following
me and chatting as we scared. I didn't think much
of it when I heard him say Dad, except I
turned around and he wasn't there. I could clearly see

(22:25):
him fifty yards away goofing off. This happened several times
throughout the night, being very distinct and in my son's
voice every time. The camp has no credible reports of haunting,
just some fabricated camp tales. However, on this night and
every year we scare. We bring large speakers and I
blest building. This guy's pandemonium. That's one of my albums

(22:46):
of the dark ambient music all night. It might have
stirred something up. Wow, I would like to believe that I.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Wouldn't, yeah, auditory hallucinations or something. Actually, I'll be honest
with you, they're not something that we've really looked in
thing great depth or even like explored. It's always like
I don't know about you. With him, I suppose you
just do talk about things like knockings and stuff like
that a bit. But like for us, it's generally what
you can see or can't see a lot of the
times what we'd be talking about. But that I went

(23:15):
through a period like probably when I was about thirty,
so I talk about seven years ago now of like
hair and stuff. That's like it almost sounded like some
someone was saying something, but they weren't.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Never forget that were just catching the wind.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
It's like we'd kind of thing, yeah, And I kind
of wonder sometimes, is it kind of like this, is.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
It a fairly universal experience when you're a kid that
like want you know, at least a few times about
your childhood, like for sure, hear your mom and your
dad call you yeah, and and they're like, nah, I
didn't call you. I mean, I feel like that's fairly universal, right.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
For sure. I think some of the some of the
scariest stories I've heard, I think when when when you
were you were off some maybe was when you're in
Japan the year before last, Rob. It was like I
did anything on mimic entities, and it was about people who, like,
you know, they're say they're just about to come inside,
or they're in the sitting room and they hear their
mom saying, oh, come here into the one of the

(24:11):
rooms in the house, and as they're walking down to
the room, the front door opens and it's their mom
and it's this sort of thing like it was there
an entity in their planning something nefarious. But those stories
really freaked me out.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, I think the I think They have a name
for that in the Nordic countries, and I'm probably gonna
pronounce us like for Doageer or something like that. There's
a name for they actually literally have a name for
that for some Basically, it's like a spirit or the
spirit of that person maybe coming home right before they're
supposed to.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Mm hmmm. Yeah. Also, you're right, so it's almost like
a like a time space time thing. Is this? Yeah, Yeah,
I get you. I get you, yeah, because because I
always thought of that the more, you know, like a
mimic entity or a monic kind of a thing, right,
because I know there was there's someone that I'd be
close to. And they had an experience where when their

(25:09):
grandfather would have passed away, they used the Ouiji board
to communicate with them for a while. This is kind
of a it's separate but somewhat similar. They would use
the Wige board to communicate with them for oil, and
it was all very they knew, you know, they assumed
it was their grandfather and that he knew everything about
them that he would have known when they were alive,

(25:30):
and then he just started saying really mean, nasty, horrible things.
And it's that that thing about you know, you like,
it's almost like the collective consciousness of the other realm,
if you like, they know all these things, and so
you can't tell if it's like a malignant entity that's
coming through. And in most cases it seems like that
is what's happening to a lot of these people who

(25:51):
make contact there are that's you.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
Know, I get contacted with people all the time. I
won't why won't even have any a wisha board in
my house with the board is the Board's the board.
There's no problem with the board. It's what's on the
other side of the board that you don't know. And
there are lots of things out there willing to pretend
to be whatever you want, you know. And I think
that's the problem with the excuse me, with ghosts. People

(26:17):
are so ready to believe, like, you know, that's the
ghost is like, oh yeah, but I mean I've collected
a lot of ghost stories that claim to be things
from history that just weren't. And you know, I just
think there's a lot of spirits that are willing to
they want attention, they want whatever, interchange with humans, whatever
they want, you know, however you want to put it.

(26:38):
And I think there's a lot of things out there
that are willing to pretend to be whatever you want
them to be.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
You know, that's a good question for you, actually, Tim,
have you ever used the wage a board. I don't
think we've had this conversation. Yeah, yeah, how did you
find your experience?

Speaker 2 (26:55):
I've had a few times that were nonsense. You know,
It's not something I do anymore. This is when I
was young. But one time I remember.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
It was.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
Early on in no I think Alison and I had
been together for a while, but we were playing we
Too with with my friend Serata, who sings for Stone Breadths,
and Alison asked a question about her mother. I think
it was her mother's middle name. I didn't know, at
least not at the front of my brain right. Maybe
sometime I had heard that in the past and subconsciously

(27:29):
I was able to pull that out. But it spelled
it out, you know, So now was that my subconscious
It could be. It absolutely could have been. I don't know,
but I remember alson and being like WHOA And Alison
has a really interesting wision boards story. I wish he
was here. That they were with some friends, and it
spelled out Dad dead and gave a date one of

(27:51):
the one of the girls she was using the board
with her. Their father died on that day.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Oh wow, Yeah, I have one as well, from a
friend of mine who I trust quite a lot. And
he's the type of ad lectures and there's no m
ship with him, like you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
He's he tells it as it is.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
But so when he was a teenager, like the they
all got together with a wage aboard and it's probably
like three boys, three guards are kind of sitting around
and the girl was doing it and like while she
was in the middle of doing it, like she just
passed out, face down onto the wage aboard. Told these

(28:28):
bookie stuff and they're going, like, what is going on?
There is or some kind of form. Now, you could
always make the argument, you know, she was freaked out
a bit whatever whatever, and you know she just was overcome.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
But still just the fireflying for everyone else, because it's
like something out of the Evil Dub. He just comes
back as the demon or something, you.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Know, you know, comes back up with red eyes.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, my dad has it, and my dad's pretty skeptical,
like he doesn't. My dad's like Scully from X Files,
like the alien. Could he tapping them on the shoulder?
They like, there's no such thing as aliens. It's ridiculous.
But he's had all these weird experiences. He had one
when he was in college. Him and his friend like
shared a place together for the first few months, and

(29:15):
they were playing the Ouiji board. I guess this would
have been about, you know, around the time The Exorcist
was coming out and people were, you know, curious about
all that sort of stuff. But they were doing it
with a wine glass, I think, on a piece of paper.
And the way my dad tells it is that they're
doing this annoying. They both have their finger on the
wine glass. The wine glass shot out and hit the

(29:35):
corner of the room where the ceiling hit meets the wall,
and then fell down to the floor, but the wine
glass didn't break lord and they both just moved wherever
they were living. You know.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Wow, it's a spooky one.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, I did. I did one. I remember did it
when I was a kid as well, and it told
me I was going to die like August twenty eighth
or something. But like we like twenty six August twenty
eighths have passed since then, and the only thing that
got me was I was with my cousin and her
cousin who wasn't like my cousin, but you know, on

(30:12):
the other side of her family. And she had like
really long nails or all like teenagers, but she only
had her nail resting on it was a pound coin
so before the euro so a punt so silver like,
So she had her nail on it, and I had
my finger on it, and I could see like if
she was putting pressure with her nail, I would have
assumed there would have been like do you know when

(30:32):
you put pressure with your finger, your your sort of
thinger goes a little bit. Yeah, just at the point
of course, but she she didn't seem to be and
I wasn't. I know, they call it idiom otor. It's
like you're subconscious is doing this stuff, But it was, yeah,
it was. It was an interesting thing.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
Well, even if it is your subconscious as like like
that's the way of explaining it. But even if it
is you're subconscious, why is your subconscious?

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Well, my mon Street teacher had a good thing about
this city, said to it was he he was pretty
religious and he you know, he was pretty cool, and
that he would talk about various things. You probably know
what I'm talking about. And I remember he said to
us one day, he said, lads, you can do the WIJI.
Body goes. He's like, hardly, no one's going to possess
the pound, and no one's going to possess the board,
and no one's going to possess the you know, whatever

(31:16):
you have. And he just goes, which means the thing
that's that's possessing something is using part of you to
move you. So the part that's being possessed is inside you.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
I'm going to have Alison step in and tell her
stories because I'm like, I told it right, So.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Oh excellent. I feel like this is going to be
way less exciting it's to see Alison.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
Though we thought we were getting to know Alison, you're
running down a ramp like a w W a wrestler
now with a story for.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Us with a steel chair.

Speaker 5 (31:49):
Now, now there's a lot of pressure be.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (31:54):
So when I was in high school, because that is
you know, like the only time fun things happened with
It's like, I've never heard of anybody like in their
thirties or forties or fifties sitting around with their friends going,
let's get the wage aboard out.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:07):
So we were like teenagers and a group of my
friends and I wasn't invited to this portion of the story,
but they had had a night where they were using
the Wijia board and they were so excited and freaked
out about it that they told me, like the next
day when they got back to school, like, so the
wija board said dad die and it gave a date,

(32:28):
and so we were all like, it didn't specify whose
dad would die or anything like that. And then the
date came and went, and I was about to say
something the next day, like after the date had passed,
then it was supposed to something Dad was supposed to die.
I was going to mention that, oh, nobody's dad died,
and then someone else within our friends friend group their

(32:51):
father actually did die on that date.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
And we didn't.

Speaker 5 (32:54):
It was like nonspecific when they had done it, but
they had assumed it was this one girl who didn't
really like her dad. Think maybe that's where the genesis
of it was, But then it really was. It did
turn into a death on the date that they stated,
and because I wasn't there, but they had told me
about it and told me the date like it was.
It wasn't something that somebody faked or made up like

(33:14):
there wasn't you know. They did actually have a weedy
board session that said that someone's dad was going to
die on a specific date, and then someone's dad within
our friend group did die on that date, which I
found it very very creepy and living.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
And like, yeah, even if they even if they had
just made up the story, the probability of that coming
through you know what I mean, it's it's, oh my god,
that's creepy. It also freaks out because it's like, well,
is there some sort of predestination running in the background.
We actually have way less free will than we think, yeah.

Speaker 5 (33:45):
Yeah, or like it did somehow that I mean, because
the person that passed away had it was it was
a self inflicted thing. So I wonder, like, you know,
was it in the air had encouraged telling the story
or something, you know, like, I don't think it was
anything conscious. I don't think you did any on that
date because of that, and by not by a long shot,
but like you know, I think things sort of like

(34:06):
maybe maybe hang in the ether where you're picking things up,
maybe when they're sounds really strange, familiar. I don't know
if I really believe.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
That it's funny, because this is your story and you're like,
usually pretty skeptical.

Speaker 5 (34:20):
Yeah, but I guess what it happens to you, then
you're like, well, maybe for this one instance, else is crazy,
but for the one time that this thing happened to me,
and where I can have a relatable story, I'll let
you guys go back and I will go back to
making some chili.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, get out, yeah, get out of here. Woman. Uh
Bar Doger is a Scandinavian folklore concept of a spirit
precursor that takes the form of a person's footsteps, voice,
or appearance, preceding their physical arrival and causing witnesses to

(34:59):
believe they have seen or heard the actual person, creating
a kind of deja vu in reverse. More than a
simple doppelganger of our dojer is seen as a harbinger
or a messenger, an echo of a person's soul in
a confirmation of their destiny.

Speaker 3 (35:13):
Okay, yeah, it's the thing.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
I almost had the name right, not quite.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
It was like we talked about last week, the body
snatchers as a saying like that and that's I think
then them kind of movies is what kind of that
aspect is what makes them so creepy is that you know,
people can mimic the ones that you love and all that,
and they can they can assimilate with the voice and
the appearance and all that. And I think the Body

(35:39):
Snatchers is why it's a great film actually because of that.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
It's just so creepy.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
I'm sure you've watched that film them Yeah, yeah, yeah,
great grief.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Oh yeah, all right.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
So next week I got a it's a Patreon comment,
but it's relative to Halloween.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
When you guys want to take that, Yeah, sure, I'll
take that. It's from Allison and she says, I don't
have a Halloween story, but as a kid, I was
really scared of Halloween. I remember just hoping I'd get
through the night without seeing a gold star, which no
trick or treat In Lancashire when I was a kid,
we would bob for Apple's. Is this a custom in
the US?

Speaker 2 (36:13):
It is, indeed, and I'm assuming it is there as well.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah yeah, yeah, we we We think I only ever
did it once. Yeah we did on Halloween. Yeah, just once.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
So I think I think for me it was just
once as well.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Yeah, No, I think Ireland isn't a weird place. And
we've perhaps touched on this before. I'm one of our
yearly collapsed for Halloween, where obviously, you know, seven has
a lot of ties with Halloween and all that kind
of stuff, and we've done episodes at length about ourselves
and that both. I think a lot of the what

(36:51):
is modern Halloween in Ireland is directly American influenced. Yeah, yeah,
and we would have gotten it from TV shows and
movies at the times, because I think like if you
go back to say my dad or my mom's generation
and probably yours were the same, like their Halloween would
have looked a lot different, yeah, like, whereas ours was

(37:13):
very what I would say, it's kind of almost americanized.
So I think a lot of the time people were
actually mimicking what was on TV at the time and
stuff like that, you know. But and even nowadays, like
it's gone so much more commercial over here, like it's
you know, like you were talking about earlier about having
decorations after and stuff like that really wasn't the thing

(37:33):
when we were kids.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Nobody do that, No, you were kids, But now I
love like wandering around my street and just seeing the
gardens where the skeletons are coming up through the earth
and stuff like it's really fun to see now. But yeah,
when we were kids, known really really had that.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
So it was very traditional, like it would have looked
a lot like probably tim yours when you were a kid.
Maybe it was. We did. We did have a couple
of parodies. I only really recall maybe one or two,
like we're saying, yeah, maybe, And I bought Bob for
apples one or two times, and I don't know what.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
It's all smaller.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
There's quite gross when you think about it, but like
we used to have apples, but like pound coins. But yeah, yeah,
and you did Bob and you try and bite the found.
There'd be like chocolate apples and stuff like that too,
but the Bob and of apples, Yeah, it was some
of the apples might have money in them.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, no, that's what we used. There's only in the apples,
and then you get your money out and then you
had a fist full of shrapnel and then you go
down and you buy like whatever sweets. But I think
I only did that one time, and after that it
was just around the street. I guess I was young.
I was with some neighbors who used to live in
there's a field behind my house when I was a kid,
which is now like a development or whatever. But yeah,

(38:48):
I remember that was the only time I ever did
the bob frapples and I bought a ton of chewing
gum or something spent.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
I think I asked this last year of you guys
have the like now foot plastic skeletons made their way
there yet.

Speaker 5 (39:04):
At crypt a crypt.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
I think you can get them, but you generally you've
got like the five foot ten plastic skeletons or that
the you don't see a lot of the big, huge ones.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
I find them interesting because and a friend of mine
said this, but I was like, oh, yeah, you're kind
of right. When you look at the skeleton and you
think a big foot sight, and she's like, you give
you a good idea of how big would be like
when you look at these giant skeletons, like, oh wow,
that it would be that big. It's quite large.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
It's and it's when you think about that as well,
because like a terrifying thing for me always has been
just the idea of something really oppressive due to its height,
because I mean, meanwhile, we're like, we're both over six
feet tall, so it's you know, you're generally one of
the taller people in a room or whatever. You don't
think about people and taller than you. But then to

(40:02):
have something that's like three feets above you, like, and
I've heard some stories about like fifteen foot white bigfoots
and stuff like that, and just if you if you
think about that for a second, like twice my height
and some change, that must be terrifying.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
What's the name of that big foot sight that we watched.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
The Marble Mountain?

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Marble Mountain? Have you seen Marble Mountain?

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (40:25):
Yeah, Yeah, that kind of looks like.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
It would be massive.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, And isn't isn't there something? And the skeleton is
a good way to put it as well, because like
skeletons by their nature are lanky because the meat on
the bone. And if you see and that Marble Mountain,
bigfoot looks kind of lanky long hours, they look kind
of thin, and that to me feels creepier than you know,
your big bench press and bigfoot that people are always

(40:51):
seeing with his muscles and stuff.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
Yeah, what do you think of the Marble Mountain, big
Foot tame your what's your stance on it.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
It's been years, I I've s from a disc right.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, it's like it's it's a it's a parent with
some scouts, right, and I think one of his kids
or a couple of his kids may be part of
the scout troop. And there's a couple of parts of
video where they kind of they're hiking, they have a
little scout camp set up, and then there's the footage
then of like them spotting something up.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
On the hill kind of zooming in. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's been some years since I looked at it.
I remember being very interesting. You know, beyond that, you're
never going to get me to weigh in on video
stuff too heavy. I'm just that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
Yeah, Like it does like to be fair, like I
never really found anything against that really too strong, you know.
I think even the nature of how that video was
found was quite interesting. It was found like kind of
long after the fact that I don't think it was
intentionally put out. It was a big Foot sight and
even maybe I might be wrong on that, and the

(41:56):
it just looks it's one of those videos where a
lot of people have kind of brushed it off, and
they said, lot, that was just a guy, and it
was just a weird way that he looked on the
VHS kind of came true, kind of where the desired
to facts around him or something or something like that.
But to me, it looks super convinced. And actually it
was one of the most compelling sort of videos I've
seen of big Foot probably.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, speaking of tall people, I mean, so I'm I'm
six foot now. The world has beat me down. I
used to be six to one, about six foot now,
and during college I was quite a big fella, quite
a lot of weight on that frame. And I went
to a party one time just was you know, a

(42:39):
friend of a friend kind of thing in inviting me there,
and there was this dude there who was massive. I mean,
he looked like a giant Viking, just big, long, red
beard and just just massive. I remember he was wearing overalls.
I don't think he had a shirt on under the overalls.
It's just just this giant of a man. And I'm
thinking he must have been close to seven feet. He's

(43:01):
a great, big guy, and for some reason he took
a liking to me, and we were kind of drinking
together all night and he he just we just hit
it off. And I never saw him after this either.
I wonder where he went where he got up. We
really did get along well that night. We kind of
spent the whole night together just joking and having drinks
and stuff. And at the end of the night, I

(43:22):
was leaving and he picked me up. I was I
mean at the time, I was well over two fifty.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah, he picked me up and hugged me like like
and how I had never been like since I was
a child, I had to be picked up. It was
this odd feeling. I remember thinking, what the heck is it?
Like suddenly there's no ground beneath me, you know, and
this person is like just just holding me in the air.
And I was like wow, like what is this?

Speaker 1 (43:53):
You know?

Speaker 2 (43:53):
And and you think about Bigfoot, like they could toss
us through goldposts, you know, like you know at there.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Fot similaratter that was right there. He should say he
should got to the cannibals as our charges. And for big
Foot simulator, you can dress up in a sasquatch start
following you around the US, knowin.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, yeah, that does sound like a business plan.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Yeah, it's not bad, but I think you're gonna get
the longest one here.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah from from Mary Okay. I'm not one hundred percent
sure that this happened on Halloween. My memories of the
college years are few, and my sense of chronology has
challenged at best thanks to alcohol and ADHD. Retrospectively, I'm
there with your sister.

Speaker 3 (44:34):
I appreciate the person cilarity, but I.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Think it did. I went to school at Saint Mary's College,
which is located in the same area as the first
Catholic settlement in Maryland. Most of my spooky experiences there
happened in the dreamscape, but we did have one incident
that had all of us high tailored from the graveyard
to the dorms. When I was a student at Saint
Mary's nineteen eighty three to nineteen eighty seven, there was

(44:59):
a strong drinking culture, and pretty much every day there
was a reason for drinking. Much like it's just Tuesday, Okay.
On this fall night, a group of us decided to
go down to Church Point and maybe go swimming in
the river. Swimming in the Saint Mary's River at night

(45:20):
when it truly was too cold to be a good idea,
and the participants were too drunk for it to be
a safe decision was a relatively common thing. Yeah, you're
definitely singing my hymns here, lady. On the walk from
the dorm to the point, we took the shortcut through
the graveyard and shared spooky stories, rumors, and urban legends.
One of the rumors was that a group of professors

(45:43):
was involved in a cult that would meet by the
large cross at Church Point and dance around a bonfire.
None of us believed that one, and we laughed it off.
When it felt like someone ran right past us, I
looked up and saw what looked like a shadowy figure
in a dark cloak peeking out from behind the gravestone.

(46:03):
I pivoted on my heel and took off, running in
the opposite direction. As I ran out of the graveyard
and my feet hit the road, I looked over my
shoulder and saw my friends running to meet me. My
friend Vicky called out, did you see it? Did you
see it too? We slowed our pace to a quick
walk and shared notes. Vicky also saw something in what
she described as a brown monk's robe. Steve felt the

(46:26):
rush of movement but didn't see anything, and Roddy didn't see,
peel or hear anything. She just took off running when
we did, because that's what friends do. Was it an
apparition a cult member, someone in costume heading to a
kegar at church point that we didn't know about who knows? Well?
We know it wasn't a cult member, because that was
just a silly rumor. Whatever it was, it was scary

(46:49):
enough that we all chose to exit the area in
the fastest way possible. The things that were particularly particular
and spooky at the college, particularly culiar excuse me, and
spooky at the college where the number of shared nightmares
that people would have. I know, I'm not talking about
your typical school related nightmares, but those didn't happen on Halloween,

(47:10):
so there for another day.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
I wish I wish we could know where they were. Now, Yeah,
a little bit of that's interesting. I don't know what
you're called. Dude in a costume?

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Hm hmm. I mean, if we take all the sort
of supernatural bits out of it, you would go, oh yeah,
maybe dude in a costume or maybe I don't know,
Like I don't think you could have like a group
hallucination of two, right, But.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
I mean I guess you know, so, so the one
thing ran past, right, and then was it a different
thing that was looking behind from behind the tombstone? Was
the same thing?

Speaker 1 (47:50):
I was? I was clear on that. That's that's a
good question.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
It sounds like it's the same thing.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
I think, well, even you know, or maybe not. I
guess there's a few different on it. Like you can
have the one sort of skeptical where you think, ah,
people just you know, they were talking about spooky things.
They greet each other, Yeah, it's Halloween, you're sort of
naturally a bit more, your hair is a bit more
briskly than usual. But then I guess the other side
is could they have manifested this little experience by that

(48:18):
energy and that fear of talking about something?

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (48:21):
And then maybe another one is just there there there
there was some substance maybe behind the rumors, even if
they weren't actively doing this kind of cult stuff, that
actually there's some sort of memory in the area, some
sort of liminal thing that's happened.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
How often you get in ghost stories in the United States,
and I think this might be particular to the United States,
loo get these areas that in the nineteen eighties, they
would say cults met there, and then if you go
back to the nineteen fifties, they would say the KKK

(48:58):
met there, And if you go back before that, they
would often say, like lynching or something like that happened there.
If you still get that weird, you know element to it.
But it's like it's almost like whatever the culture is
either ashamed of or afraid of at that time gets
associated with these certain places and it changes over time.

(49:19):
It's very interesting. So yeah, you know, I wonder what
it's going to be like. It almost seems like we're
sort of entering part to the Satanic panic in a way.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Yeah, I feel that too. I definitely feel like we're
getting back to that swing of things all right for sure.
Actually think I think there's an optic in people being
more spiritual, which ultimately I suppose is a good thing.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Probably, there's also there's a lot of I mean, you
know that corrects itself.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
That's when when there's a lot of people spiritual, there
can also be there's a lot of people. I think
there's a lot more people leaning into religion. I think
times are tougher, and I think people are feeling it's
harder in these streets. There's a lot I think.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
There's a lot of to baking heads. I think as
well that are kind of you know, there's been some
famous ones recently talking about spiritual attacks. They'd be quite famous.
Hollywood broadcasters are used to be Hollywood broadcasters and famous podcasters.
Now it's not rogan or anything like that. Let me,
I won't get into it because there's, like you said
to him, there's political stuff behind it or whatever. It's

(50:21):
it's maybe not the time of the place, but it
you know, it does seem like we're primed for something
like that, and it is interesting, you know what kind
of comes to mind. I don't know if this will
mean anything, but it's probably I'm anticipating this Welcome to
Dairy TV show, the Ish prequel. But isn't that every

(50:41):
twenty seven years that Penny Wise kind of comes back,
or that it like this evil emerges again. And that
was the first thing the kind of resonated with me
as you were talking about the KKK and the lynchings
and the satanic panic or sort of cults stuff.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's very interesting. Fell on from Ireland
and maybe you guys he was talking at a place
outside of Dublin. H Is there is a sort of
an abandoned place, is it like with the Help Help
Fire Club?

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah, and he had some some really interesting experiences there.
But I wonder is there that kind of reputation like
associated with that building.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
It is there had a fire club, has a history
with the sort of the British and the sort of
Protestant ruling class that were in Ireland at the time.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
There was.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
There's actually a lot of stories about that that are
actually super interesting, But one of them was they used
to use that place to purposely scare the locals, the
local Catholic population, because they knew that the Catholics were
more superstitious. So they used to use the Hellfire Club
for these like mock sort of sacrifices and things like

(51:59):
that where they would purposely sort of like bring up
dead animals and did wear robes and they do all
that kind of stuff up there on certain nights, and
they're light, big fighters and and all this stuff, and
it was like the whole the goal of it was
to frighten the Catholic population because they just knew that

(52:22):
like we would have been more very superstitious, very religious,
and yeah, so there's actually great I want to say,
there's a great blind Boy episode about the blind Boy
podcast and I don't know the name of it, but
if you start maybe blind Boy Health you might find that.
And also shameless plug for us aim and did the

(52:42):
video special.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Up in the he documentary up there.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
On our Patreo and he cycled up in Lockdown.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Yeah, I don't I don't think I I don't think
I talked about the history at all. It was like
here we are now, it's not scary nobody. I mean
back like they were meant to be a transgressive is
that were like, like to Rob's point as well, there's
an element of sort of edge lord tricksterism about it,
but there was a satanic element where they were kind

(53:11):
of a rejection I think of of well protestant Ism,
more Catholicism really just the church in general. And yeah,
there's a lot of there's meant to be a lot
of strange sort of I don't know, I've read some
stuff about weird sort of sex stuff or just stuff
like just yeah, just that kind of transgressive stuff because

(53:31):
that was what the nineteenth century. Yeah, I think the
early twentieth.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
Yeah, and as well, it can also be it can
be both things, because it was probably before the Protestants
occupied the spot, it was probably a sort of a
religious area. I'm not quite sure all of the history
prior to that, like because I only that's the only
story that just popping into my head about that Alfare
Club right now. But oftentimes, like this would have been

(53:57):
a pre existent area that was after as large was
a Catholic revered for whatever reason. Yeah, and then it
turned into something different once the ruling class.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
And if you if you were ever to visit it,
like it's a it's a it's a hike to get
up there through the forest, and it's usually quite busy
because it's quite a touristy bit. It's got this beautiful
vista of the whole city that when you actually get
to the health of Oer Glob on a clear day,
you can just straight out to the edge of the island,
you know. But if you can imagine yourself there alone,

(54:32):
it's certainly there's a very it has. It has a
week I think it would have a weird energy if
you were in there by yourself. I've only been there
in the day and it's it's usually packed with tourists
and stuff, and you know, it's it's fun. You don't
take it seriously, but I can't imagine camping there or
something being quite.

Speaker 3 (54:49):
Yeah, there's lots of places like Liminal Island. Yeah, but yeah,
and America too, even like Ause. You know, it's it's
sometimes people might ignorantly sort of look at America and
all kind of assume like the history goes back as
far as when people arrived, but obviously there's there's so
much like indigenous folklore and just so many things that

(55:10):
would have went on and as well, America has such
a rich history after that too, where there was so
many wars and battles held on land that like you'd
almost forget about that happened in America. It is not
the heavy hit Iwans.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
But it is. It is crazy that like you guys
are just going towards your two hundred and fiftieth birthday,
right and like since yeah, state was founded and everything,
and oh my god, you've packed a lot into those years.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
You know, Bolster, you wonder if this so this energy
of of people like literally trying to scare people, and
it comes up a lot and we've had it on
the podcast. I remember we did a story about a
guy run an iron furnace down in Maryland and he
would used to he would dress up his ghosts to

(55:57):
scare his neighbors. But there's also so all these like
serious ghost stories associated with the place, the spring Hill
Jack stuff. There were a lot of people that were
just dressing up to scare other people, but there were
also some really weird, like unexplained things with that. There's
in my upcoming book, The Keystone Hegstone Fairies and other

(56:17):
Liminal Entities in Pennsylvania, there's a I do a whole
chapter on these women in black sightings that were happening
mostly in the coal region, but they came down to
York and some other places. And some of them were
certainly people dressing up and including men just putting on

(56:39):
black dresses to scare people or to rob them or
to assault women, you know, up to no good whatever
it was. But there were some that were absolutely bizarre,
you know, where like this could not have been a
human where there you know, people on horseback are trying
to run or down they can't catch or you know,
and they see it going to a mine and everybody
goes in the mine and there's just nothing in there.
You know. They saw one of them. They saw just

(57:00):
descend into a lake, like just walk out over a
lake and just descending the lake.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
The White Lady is the same. Yeah, if you heard
the White Lady stories, there's one. There's a really famous one.
Herd is tied in with a massive like like an
international kind of murder case that happened.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
There's a very.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Good podcast about a call West Pork and basically it
was a French woman was murdered over her but there
is actually ties to like some locals had just seen
like a white woman at the lake, a lady in
white again.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
She had seen her actually door and it was it
was like a harbinger of your own death. And then
sure enough a couple of days later and she'd reported it.
It's not too dissimilar to what Alison said in a
lot of ways actually and so yeah, so she had
said that to her friend and then I think within
a day or two she and she had passed away.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
And the place that she's seen the woman, I think
it was, had a really rich kind of folklore about that.
There was actually a story, wasn't it about Because there's
a little castle up there. Yeah, we did, so, we
did a long time. But I think it actually ties
in like with the local folklore. Saw there's another example
for you. I think sometimes people like Lampoon the local folklore,

(58:10):
and I think that's probably what you're saying. In some
of these stories, especially like like Spring hil Jack and
stuff like.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
The Brits have a good.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
Sense of humor, so like there was probably an element
of mocking and taking the piss out of people that
you know, they thought that it was. It was a
whole bunch of nothing, and people were making up silly stories.
So then some people dressed up to have the crack.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
But yeah, I think even that the the what is it?
That the drone sightings over New Jersey was it? And
so many people were saying like yeah, like there's definitely
drones and big drones and this and that. But interspersed
with all that is a lot of people reporting extremely
strange sightings that seemed more akin to your I don't know,

(58:54):
did the UAPs moving in very strange g gum geez,
what am I trying to say?

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Geometric?

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Geometrical? Then you're of geometrical ways and you know, so
like it's like what you're saying, Tim in that like
there there are there's there's that weird parrot happening, and
then there's a part that's easily explainable with technology or
people you know, just trying to spook people out or whatever.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Yeah, it's it's like the phenomena loves muddy waters.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yes, And there's a lot of stuff as well about
like there's a lot of stuff about people so that
they're in a haunted house, for example. And this is
maybe more true in the past, although I'm sure it
probably happens now. And these these entities or whatever's happening
in the space, you know, it's creating havoc. It's doing X,
Y and Z, and the people, you know, they'll get

(59:46):
the media or whoever there and they hoax it out
of frustration of the thing not shown up when it's
supposed to. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Yeah, absolutely happens all the time.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
One of my favorite marrying apparition things is garment down Spain,
you know, and people will use this to try to
debunk the everything. At one point, there's the girls there
that were their seers. They were young, young, young girls,
like I think they were between like eleven and fourteen
or something like that. You know, they were fairly young,

(01:00:19):
and at one point they faked it because crowds had
started to come and they didn't want people to be disappointed,
and the town priests could tell they were faking, and
he pulled them aside and said, don't don't.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Ever do that again.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Don't do it, you know, don't don't fake it. I
could tell you were faking. And so people use that,
you know, to sort of debunk the whole thing, which
went on for four years. It's kind of hard to
use one incident to debunk it, in my opinion, but
I understand, you know, and again it's like this, they
just they didn't want people to be disappointed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
You know. It must it must be so frustrating as
well to you know, you've been experiencing this thing that's
very difficult to explain to people, and when you eventually
you get someone there to actually, you know, to tell
your truth basically, which is I'm sure it's quite a
burden in a lot of ways, and then it just
won't happen, and you feel justified in hoaxing something because

(01:01:11):
you know that it's been real.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Yeah, right, I think it has a big Foot guys exactly.
I have really good evidence initially and down the line
they feel so much pressure to keep producing, producing, producing,
and then they get into that state of mind we're like, yeah,
I faked it, but it's okay because I know it's real.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
Perhaps a controversial tech, but I kind of do feel
that way with Patterson gave the film a little bit,
to be honest with I think I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Telling you I over the years, I was always slightly
on the fence, but leaning towards real, and over the
years I'm leaning the other way now, Like, look a
popular place to be in the big foot world.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
No, well, we both have strangeness podcasts and it's it's
not a popular take really like it is what it is.
But I think you have to kind of look at
things like pragmatically as well and kind of just kind
of observe it. And I think, to be honest someone
that you know, I think they wanted to get that

(01:02:13):
big Foot film so much. And there was a history
of Patterson as well, of like we've talked about on
our a million a one time that he had sketched
female big foots before in books and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Like that, and with with hair on their breast and
look back in that film.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Exactly, so it's like it's a bitter munster and who
did the magic trick where he transform a moment into
he said he was involved and blah blah blah. Yeah,
it's it's But again, I think maybe to be fair,
you know, none of us know a hundred percent, Like
the only people who know are the guys that either
saw that or hoax that. So I think maybe if

(01:02:51):
you approach it that way and say, look, I don't know,
but it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Doesn't really change my views on anything much anyway, you know.
I mean, it's it's it's compelling footage and it's caused
so much discussion. But look, even if it was a hawks,
it's brought so many people into this and sparked so
much sort of people like want to find out more,
people are like check out podcast like errors and yours

(01:03:14):
to him, and then ultimately it's for it's for the good.
But I do think personally that there was an element
of that with that footage. I think that Parson that
kind of devoted his life to being the guy that
finds Bigfoot, and I think it was by any means necessary,
And that's just my personal.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
I've been given behind the scenes information from two separate sources. Yeah,
if if it's legit, and who knows, if it's legit,
we may have an answer on that film. I don't
think we'll see. But part of me, the bigger part
of me, says it's always going to remain a mystery
and we're never going to have an answer because that's

(01:03:54):
so emblematic of the phenomena. You never get an answer.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
But what the irony of it is is that, let's
say for a second that it was a hoax. Okay,
let's just pretend we don't know, but that's probably responsible
for manifestations of Bigfoot coming from the other plane more
so than anything else.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Now we're sucking diesel, Yeah, I know that, But it
is like, and that's sure, it's put I mean, that
was the first thing, that was probably the first thing
that I ever seen to do with cryptozoology, and I
was a kid like and and that sparked so much
just of an interest. It's kind of like it's almost

(01:04:36):
like hearing a certain genre of music you like for
the first time, or something like, oh, what's this and
then you're like telling me more and you find out
there's so much. Even when we started this podcast, like
myself and Eamon, we're kind of like, yeah, we knew Bigfoot,
and we Knewtube of Cabra, and we knew this something new,
that Lockness monster and these things. But then you actually
get into it and you're like, Wow, there's so many

(01:04:57):
different names for all these different creatures and spirits and
whatever they may be. That you do, I suppose you
have to at the very least if you're not a
believer in any of them, you do have to group
them together in a category of something that exists.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
I think, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Yeah, Well, speaking of the oddness of the phenomenon, here
we go literally proving Alison wrong which he said a
few months ago about no one outside their teens plays
with WISA boards. This is from Michelle. It's about five
years ago or so. My two friends and I thought
it would be a good idea to take a WISA

(01:05:35):
board into the cemetery up the hill from my parents'
house on Halloween night. We're three later, we're three ladies,
mid to late thirties. There you go Alison with a
goofy stranger things WISA board, sneaking into the cemetery, around
tenp Halloween night. I've been in that cemetery so many
times and never had any strange encounters or felt uneasy.

(01:05:55):
I've also played with wija boards plenty of times, usually
with people I assume are moving plants yet because they're
just that type. So I never really was afraid of
weeds aboards, but I do treat them with respect anyway.
The three of us find a good spot in the
middle of the fairly large cemetery on the walkway between
the graves and set up. We start talking about what

(01:06:15):
to ask, and then I heard leaves crunching to the
left of us. It caught my attention, but I assumed
it was an animal, since the cemetery is up against
the woods. We kept talking quietly and I kept hearing
the noise, and now it sounds like quick steps over
in the dark. Now I'm thinking maybe it's a bigger animal,
maybe a deer. I told my friends and asked if
they heard it too. They did, but weren't worried. I

(01:06:38):
heard the sound again and it sounded closer. I turned
to look and I saw a little black figure running
between the graves. I looked at my friends and I
just said there's someone here. Next thing I know, I'm
running as fast as I can towards the gate, which
was about I half a football field away. All I
could hear was my own footsteps and frightened breathing. I
have no idea if the black figure was following us,

(01:07:00):
because I took off the great friend that I am,
I didn't look back to see where were I finally
got to the gate. My one friend was right behind me,
and we kept running down towards my parents' house. My
other friend, who owned the uisia board, was sure to
say goodbye, package it up nicely, and then run. She
was not about to leave her stuff behind. We got

(01:07:21):
down to the street as my mom was coming home
from work. I think we startled her too. I was
telling her how someone was in the cemetery with us,
and my fear was that it was a flesh and
blood weirdo. The town is full of them. Well, it
turns out in some ways it was. There were two
people in all blacks talking us that night, my husband
and my friend. They knew we were going and decided

(01:07:42):
to give us a scare.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
It worked.

Speaker 2 (01:07:44):
Honestly, I was the most afriend I've ever been in
and I got to give the husband's credit. They got us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
I was proud of them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
I hated them in the moment, but I loved it
a few days later. One mistake they made the should
have had one of them standing at the gate. I
would have seen someone standing there in the dark. I
would have lost it. Okay, maybe they did. That's a
funny story. Run to make sure they don't do that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:04):
And you can see the carry stead though, right, Hollywood tragedy.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
That's I love that kind of story though, because the
feeling and the emulsion is totally authentic. So you're getting
like a really authentic perspective of what some mom would
do when they see something like that or count or
something like that. And the fight or flight kicked in
full folder. But yeah, that would frighten the living ship.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
Yeah, imagine you're just there and I mean, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
No, I'm I'm good for that. It's funny. We were
just before we we logged onto the called him there.
There's a place in Ireland called laught Assaults down in
our city or our town, and it's one of the
more haunted places. There's a whole thing about a devil
going through the roof and breaking the tiles they could
never be fixed and all this sort of stuff. But

(01:09:03):
funnily enough, there's a constellation that is visible on the
thirty first of October, and we were just thinking about
going down, maybe driving down my sister to see if
we could see it, like see you know what the
lay of the land was like. But if there's a
couple of people in like black morphe suits that going
to greet this out, that would I wouldn't enjoy it.

(01:09:23):
I wouldn't enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Yeah, i'd be. I I don't know if i'd do that.
Like I mean, if it's your wife, you can probably
predict maybe how your wife's going to react. My wife
would probably not talk to me for about three weeks
if I did that to her though, So it won't
be doing that, but to just do it to a stranger,
like you know, when fight or flight kicks in, some
people might choose fight, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
Oh yeah, that's that's the thing. You don't know how
people are going to act, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Yeah, yeah, I think that would that would be quite
a risk. I wouldn't be well, that's like people would
I'm I'm through the guy. I don't know. It's probably
five years ago now, but got shot because he was
in the woods and some guys thought he was a bigfoot.
He wasn't dressed as a bigfoot or anything like, because
I thought he was bigfoot and shot him.

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
Well, maybe those podcasts have something to blame for that.
Then you are called.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Probably we might have a couple of years. You know,
you guys got to stop talking about Bigfoot.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
Well that happens. Like, look, you know that your mind
tries to fill in a lot when all as you say,
around his darkness, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
If you're I.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
Suppose spiritually woke, there's a lot more that your mind
can show you or make you aware of. And go
copy of this to a copy that you know, we
go into the woods, we can see everything, the whole
rainbow of cryptos wology and ice ranges.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
When you like, man is a squatch? Yeah, like whoever is?
So don't be here anymore. Like I remember going into
the woods down here during it was during COVID. It
was nighttime, you know, it's like just trying to do
anything to pass the time. And I was listening to
your podcast him and it was one of the brother
Richard episodes, and I had to turn around and just

(01:11:16):
be like I need to get I was so scared
because it was just we were talking about gifting in
the woods and things, and all of a sudden, I
was like, I really shouldn't be here. I need to
be somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Yeah, I mean, and places can change at night too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
I've been.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
There's a certain state park I was walking in and
I can say it's Kudur State Park, and it's it's
not out in the middle of nowhere, it's not you know,
And the sun went down, like I just I tied
my hike wrong, you know. And I was hiking. I
hike around a big lake there, and I'd been I
was halfway around the lake, and all of a sudden,
I was like, oh, I'm not getting out of here

(01:11:55):
before it's dark. I forgot to bring a head lamp.
It's just just me and in my walking stick. And
it really the character of the place really changes at nights.
Like and I generally, you know whatever, you know, there's
some places in the woods that day night it doesn't matter,
but that place in particular, like, Wow, the character really
changes here at.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
Night, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
Yeah, But isn't that funny though, because like that's probably
inspired so many people like way before us, like you know,
people that you know, like the first humans and stuff
like that. Whatever that feeling is that we all feel
like that probably you know, who knows that could have
inspired creativity in the first best even exists that like
filling in the trying to interpret what is going on

(01:12:38):
around you or why you feel the way you feel
and what what it is. But it's a human Edge're
trying to keep you on edge, right because it's it's
trying to say to you, there's probably predators that can
get you right now.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
But yeah, there's definitely a pragmatic side to it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
Yeah, it's like there's going to be because like we
you know, we have always had a rift valley, and
rift Valley had a lot of things that would each
you when something went down. And so I suppose our
lizard brand doesn't really know that we're in like Subarbia.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
That's why they say so many people are afraid of
snakes and rats and spiners because they were, you know,
venomous and if they got it, that could be the
end of you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
And then they say, like when you jerk awake sometimes
at night you feel like you're falling. It's like a
species memory from we used to sleep in trees.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
Yeah, I believe Yeah, I believe it. And it's probably
because I get that semi frequently, that kind of yeah,
kind of it feels like you're a fish out of water.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Like just falling for a split Yeah, falling for a
split second, and then you're like back in.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
There trying to keep you up on your branch. Yeah.
And I was like, there's crocodile and blow, You're going
to get a very big agent.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Like so, no, it is.

Speaker 3 (01:13:47):
It's fascinating stuff. Man, It's uh, yeah, the high strangeness
continues to be strange. But as I was saying that,
Im and we were talking about it kind of last
week or maybe I don't know, I could have been on.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
This week podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
Either it's getting I don't know if you ever feel
this way, but like, are you it's a good question
for you, is that actually because you know, you've been
talking about it as long as we have, Like are
you contented with the amount of like information that we
have on the stuff that we talk about, meaning like
you know, we all get writings, we all have people

(01:14:20):
that said they've seen UFOs. We all get people who
have say said they've seen Big Foight, et cetera, Like
is that enough for you, like or are you on
a quest or would you like to at some point
in time see more? Because sometimes I feel like that,
Like it feels like we're kind of at an apex
where everyone has these stories, everyone has these experiences, and

(01:14:43):
yet we're never getting anything tangible. And then I'm kind
of wondering, is it like is it purely a heigh
strange's liminal kind of thing then, and that's why we're
never seeing anything? Or yeah, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:14:56):
Well as far as like getting answers, I'm I'm very
very comfortable with with not having the Like I don't
I don't think we get we don't get to solve this,
we don't get to put big Foot in a cage.
We don't get to know what the UFOs really are.
I think that's just it. And then and then we
go on to the next world, and you know, I
this sorry, folks, I don't think we get the answers

(01:15:19):
in there either. Just this part of me, just like
I had this this lingering, like nagging thing. I mean
that says like, yeah, we dine, there's probably gonna be
more questions you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Know, yeah, that's very possible.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
And so that part of it, you know, I'm very
comfortable with that because because I have grown to just
love the mystery, and I love the theories, and I
love playing with theories, and like you know, like you know,
this person will come out with this idea and I'm like,
oh yeah, and you know, I might adapt it to
my own or just just hear their idea out or
whatever it is. So I like that part of it

(01:15:51):
as far as like more, I truly think the phenomenon
changes with culture, and it changes with us. It's like
we were saying about how like the Satanic panic thing
and you go back it with you know, KKK meetings
and before that, et cetera, et cetera. I think the
phenomenon changes with the culture. I think, for instance, the
bigfoot phenomena is getting wilder over time as we get

(01:16:14):
further away from nature. So that's why these wild man
reports in the Middle Ages, they were like you know,
wizards of the woods. You know, people would go to
them for advice and stuff. But nowadays, you know, and
over time, like some of the reports I collected from
the eighteen hundred, some of them are wearing like tattered
clothes and even had campfires and stuff, and then you
get to up to our time and they're just very
savage and wild, and I think they're our wild Man

(01:16:37):
is getting wilder, and Brother Richard brilliant man that he
is actually said like took that idea even further and
said dog Man might be the next progressive step of that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
Yeah, now we're losing the human, any human element of
Bigfoot and turning it, you know, into a wolf. You know,
it's getting even wilder. It might be yet the next step.

Speaker 3 (01:16:59):
Yeah, I think we might get I reckon, And I
know it's not popular with a lot of creators especially,
but I actually think that artificial intelligence is going to
be the birth of like some really creepy, insane stuff.
And I actually think the artificial intelligence probably in like
thirty or forty years, the new versions of Monster Fullos

(01:17:20):
and Strange Permitters will probably have a good bank of
like that's really interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
That's a really interesting thought because it is changing the
way we look at things.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
It is, and there's we actually talked a little bit
about law being mini folds from last week, and it's
that's a kind of a cryptid are sort of an
AI cryptid that's kind of a paired but I think
that there's just going to be sold. There's such a
scope for like writing about AI and how it acts

(01:17:51):
and behaves. And then obviously when you get into the
likes of robotics companies, now we're kind of going whole
hot on buying in robotics parts. Apparently there's there's been
companies now that order just like basically looks like they're
getting to a point now where you know, in the
next ten to fifteen years, the concept of buying a

(01:18:15):
house robot for like under one hundred thousand dollars is
going to be possible, And so then that burts a
whole bunch of weird science fiction.

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Those family friendly movies about in house robots never rogue. Yeah,
that's that's the future. It is scary because it's almost
like you're going towards everything that we've ever said is like, oh, yeah,
this ends really badly and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Just startup sky neet, go ahead, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
But it also occupies its own space. Like, so the
artificial intelligence and what it is beyond how we interact
with it, we don't understand really, so like we can
speculate and we can say that, oh, well, you know,
it doesn't do anything on any other level only than
when we plug into and ask it to do stuff
for us or whatever whatever. But there's a whole bunch

(01:19:06):
of room there for fiction and nonfiction things.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
Sure's what's really interesting is it could answer that hard
question of why we're conscious, Like at a certain point is.

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
Are there consciousness drama?

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
Well, if there's so many inputs that it can then
that sort of answers a scientific question that's been unanswerable
to this point, which is pretty interesting. But then the
other side of that is if it's just you know,
a level of information and day that creates consciousness, Well,
then if these AI systems have agency, then the fears

(01:19:42):
like what would they do if they could? Because right
now it just seems more so like someone said, are
really really good. It was something like humans aren't good
at being specific, and they're giving direction to a machine
that will carry out their wishes ruthlessly. We have a
lot of blind spots I think in our inputs. Oh yeah,

(01:20:03):
what that could could look like?

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
Well, that was kind of that was actually something that
was kind of a misconception. It was an idea that
we would have talked about on the podcast as it
was a margin AI and stuff we were talking about.
The likes of the future will have people that they're
prompt engineers. There are people that will know how to
talk to AI better than say the average jaw right,
and they'll be prompt engineers. They can they know what

(01:20:27):
to put in. But funnily enough, AI is a better
prompt engineer than prompt engineer. So now what you can
do is you can actually ask it. You can say,
like you're a prompt engineer and I want the best
prompt for what I want to put in, and I'll
come back and give you and it is better than
prompt engineers most of the time. But no, I think

(01:20:48):
I think that I think the AI think, and like
you're saying, if we're able to revise engineer consciousness or
get to it, Anaco's full circle to the start of
this conversation tonight, theim where we where we talked about
human wanting to create and then if we're able to
create something that create other things that is like it's

(01:21:08):
man made and it's not natural even in a sense
of like it's not conceived by nature. It's made artificially,
I suppose, and I mean it is conceived by.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
Nature and a roundabout way, but.

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
It is very interesting. It opposes a lot of questions.

Speaker 2 (01:21:25):
Uh, and at what point I mean, because you could say,
at what point does AI create something wholly new? As
far as just combining a bunch of things?

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
Then, like the way it does artwork, is it basically
combines a bunch of other people's artwork and then and
then make something.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
But am I not just doing the same thing? Am
I not just combining all of my influences?

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
And that's it? Like subconsciously? Like listen, you know you
play folk music. I love folk music and stuff, But
like the the type of folk music I like is
the type of stuff that I was inspired by zeteenage
or so. It was the likes of Led Zeppelin and
Roy Harpur and stuff. So I was there foggy or
stuff that I like. So if I sit down and
I pick up a guitar and I start just messing around,

(01:22:09):
I'm going to be in the tunings that Jimmy Page
used and I'm going to be playing fingerstyle that Jimmy
Paige used, and so yeah, I'm directly as a matter
of fact, I'm probably more influenced directly than said the
likes of gender the VEI, which is not a popular
opinion by the way, Like I just don't like to
to kind of have that way.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
But I get I say that, and I'm fully suspicious
of AI and I don't know that. I think we're
running into it a little too fast. That's my problem,
is like, like slow it down. We're yeah, for sure,
but but yeah, no, I could, like I totally see that,
you know, I mean, I get like I just made
an argument for a like I said, what am I
but a collection of my influences?

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
You know, Yeah, we all are. I guess. I guess
what's interesting is with with people you can, you know,
get four or five in them in a room and
they all start playing and they're sort of a new
thing that emerges from that, and it's based on these
variables of the things you've litten to and you maybe
you put your own spin on something and it kind
of creates something new. So I'll be really interesting because

(01:23:10):
they've done it with some of the AI models before,
where they'll talk to each other and harmonize together instantaneously,
which is just for anyone who's ever done a harmony
christ they're hired to do. But like, so it'll be
really interesting even when you have different ais from different
companies that sort of merge, and it's gonna be a
very peculiar world. I think in the next twenty.

Speaker 2 (01:23:31):
Years, lots of room for Liminal Rata is a natural
harmony singer.

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
Really. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
So the first time we played together, the three of
the Stone Breath, the three of us Preble and Serrada
and I together, preg Win and Serata had never played together.
And we're literally on the way to the gig and
Prebleen's like, I don't know if this is gonna work
because he crafts harmonies. He will work at it and
he crafts harmonies. And I said, don't worry about It'll
be fine, and he's like, I just we've never played together.

(01:23:57):
I don't know if this is going to work. And
after the gig he was like, that was amazing. You're
totally right. And somehow she just finds it, she finds
her place to be, you know. But she's the only
person I've ever met like that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:09):
It's it's almost like, you know, these savants kids who
just they just know how to play piano, or they
just know how to draw what's in front of them
exactly as it appears. It's so impressive, especially with harmonies,
because the harmony by its nature just sounds so beautiful,
but they're so hard to pinpoint. Yeah, oh that's cool.

(01:24:32):
That's that's really really cool.

Speaker 2 (01:24:33):
Yeah, I got very lucky to have those twos to
tell you that that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:24:37):
Before we goll tim, I'm going to try and thank
your questions on the spot to try at a little
quick fire ones. Would you rather be in Friday the
thirte or Halloween the movie?

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Mm hm, I feel like I'd have a better chance
than Halloween.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
Maybe.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
Yeah. I think Jason's he's too good.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
Would that's right? Yeah? He gave?

Speaker 3 (01:25:02):
Did he? Freddy versus Jesson? Do you give?

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
At the end of it, Jason gets him, but then
he starts talking. Yeah, but Freddy's doing like cross kiss
and room slee stop against Jason Morris. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:18):
I think I think that I think I would rather.
I think i'd probably rather Michael Myers.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
Yeah, I think so. J Justin Morris is a bit.

Speaker 3 (01:25:26):
Ranked like he's a bit ugly looking and all as well,
Like I.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
I don't know to right, He's a lot bigger, but
Michael's Michael's my like Apex fear, Like I have nightmares
about Michael Myers when I'm stressed out, like since I
was a teenager. I think I might And I think
like Jason's a bit more kind of campy, and you know,
we kind of like I feel like you could have
a laugh with Jason. Michael will never know. Michael will

(01:25:51):
never laugh.

Speaker 3 (01:25:54):
Was it rather to him try and survive in Night
of the Living Dead or Invasion of the Body Snatchers?

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
O mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
That's a tricky one, right.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
Yeah, so the original Night of the Living Dead?

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
Yeah, or the kind of cheesy nineties remake which I
did enjoy.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
You know, see, everyone thinks they do well in the
zombie apocalypse, right, Everybody's like, yeah, I could I do
this and I do that? Hmm.

Speaker 3 (01:26:26):
The thing is about Night Living Dead as well. To
consider is you're stuck in the house basically, so it's
a it's a bit different from like any of the
other zombie universes, like a knighted Living Dad in this
little challenge you you have to survive in the gaflic.
Do you know what I mean yeah, yeah, or in
version of the body snatchers, which is very tricky also.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Right, yeah, because there's more.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
I feel there's more like zombies are just sort of
a force of nature. It's just something happens, and that
is more insidious, like yeah, body snatchers, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
Like snatchers like ram and aliens.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:03):
Yeah, I think I'd rather know you live and dead.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
I guess, so yeah, because you know, you kind of know.
I mean, we've never seen a zombie before, but you
feel like you know what you're dealing with.

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
I guess the noise that I'm body snatchers and not
all that is creepy.

Speaker 1 (01:27:15):
Out like they have like I can't remember.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
The name, Yeah, Donald's Land, doesn't him.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Yes, again it's been a long time, but yeah, that's
out a big, mad, weird scream kind of like howl
kind of thing when they get when they get found
out or something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
I think it is. There's like there's a scene where
you like points and it's this mad noise. I can't
even really replicate it though, but it's creepy like.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
And in a way, I guess the zombies are kind
of body snatches because once they sort of join the Horde.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
So that's you're done snatched.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
You're done. You've done being snatched.

Speaker 3 (01:27:51):
Boy, I think you have any others? There's a did
you ever did you watch Saw Back in the Day thing?

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
I've never seen it?

Speaker 3 (01:27:58):
Oh wow, I know that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
I know they just it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:01):
Yeah, you should Saws one now the god flicks.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
I think would you rather put your hand being full
of or would you rather have like a bear trap
on your head? I'll take none. Thanks, check out.

Speaker 3 (01:28:14):
You should check it out because the first film was
made like it's actually a good little story. It was
made on a super low budget, like and it just
the the sort of the gotcha and on the way
the story went and stuff just I mean a capital
did that's like franchise and to be fair like it
was fairly like Gore porny, but like it's that I

(01:28:35):
think it's hard to watch if you're in the horror,
you know, it's not scary though.

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
Trying to really try anythink, is there any.

Speaker 3 (01:28:44):
Because like, okay, I saw a little another quick far
question time, what what movie franchise?

Speaker 1 (01:28:51):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:28:51):
Was there anything that frightened the shy out of you
when you were younger? For for example, in May it
was Aliens was one that the Alien franchise is O kid,
but I seemed them probably way too young, and that
really frightened me. Another one was Tea one thousand or sorry,
yeah it was yeah, yeah, he frightened the sh out
of me. And then General Zombie Resident Evil probably that

(01:29:13):
that video game franchise really kind of kept me up
at night. Did you have anything like that in your
sort of teen years or as a kid?

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
I mean, as a little kid, I was. I was
both fascinated, fascinated and terrified of Bigfoot because I was
real you know. Yeah, so I was, you know, but
at the same time, I roamed the woods like from
a very young age with no problem night and day.
I never thought because I thought it was in California
and in the Oregon, you know what I mean that

(01:29:43):
there have been sightings, you know. I mean, I guess
I was told my one brother told me there was
a sighting somewhat nearby, and I think my other brothers said, nah,
that's all. I hoped it didn't happen or.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
Something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
But in general, I thought I thought it was a
California thing, so I don't think it, you know, it
didn't bothering me enough to keep I love the woods,
and I was all day every day, I was, you know,
if I wasn't working on the farm, I was out
in the woods. So I really wasn't like that scared.
But I do remember, you know what, the dang witch

(01:30:19):
from the Wizard of Oz. Yeah, I can say that,
and the flying monkeys. Me as a little kid, that
that really bothered me. Like I remember being excited and
staying up and watching the Wizard of Oz. And I
remember even like making I had no problem staying up.
I still don't, but I remember as a kid just
being like, oh I'm tired now.

Speaker 3 (01:30:41):
Amount of a lot of mad kind of urban legends
around that film as well, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:30:45):
One of the little people is hanging in the background.

Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
Yeah, there's a bunch of like really strange urban legends
attached stuff and that if you're not aware, obviously definitely
looking and there's a lot of a lot of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:30:59):
Yeah, which is in general kind of like and and
I'm sort of writing something about this now. They they
were a big part of my childhood. Like this this
sort of figure of the witch right right, this is
this archetype of the witch was a big part We
had a tree in the neighborhood that it was a

(01:31:20):
It would just creak and moan every time. So I
lived on Dark Hollow Roads.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
On Dark Hollow Rold got married on Halloween. But yeah,
it couldn't be more spooky.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
It was in my blood. But you would ride your
bike as a kid by this tree and would creak
all the time. And I remember one of the older
kids said, you know, a witch was hanged on that tree,
and and that sounds her souls in the tree, and
that's her her trying to say her spells to get
that's creaking sound was her trying to say her spells
to get out. And its influenced. Like I remember, I
just was so fascinated by that. As a It's about

(01:31:57):
a quarter mile from my house, so there's no way
I could hear it. But I remember, like in the
summer when we had the windows up and just just
laying there at night and trying to listen to see
if I could hear the witch tree. You never could,
but I would, you know. It was like that fascinating
to me. And as an adult, I drove by one
day I was going to the farm for some reason
when my dad still owned it, and that tree fell
and broke apart, and I parked and I walked down

(01:32:21):
to where it was and I picked up that it had.
It's called green stained fungus and it's it turns wood
kind of a greenish blow. It's really pretty. And the
Renaissance they would use it to do inlays and stuff.
I didn't know that at the time. It's just like, wow,
the witch tree is green, right, It's weird green. So
I picked up a piece of it and I brought
it back and my one brother was there. He's like,

(01:32:42):
he's like, what are you doing. I was like, oh,
remember the witch tree? And he barely remembered it. It
was such a huge part of my childhood and he said, oh, yeah,
you would. You were like afraid of that when you
were a kid or something like. That's all he could
recall to me. Like every Halloween, I would try to
get up the nerve to like I wanted to go
up and touch it, like I and that's this is
no tradition. This is something that you know, I guess

(01:33:04):
the tradition I made for myself. Never did it, never
worked up the nerve to do it as a kid,
you know, And when it fell, I realized how important
it was. Like when I saw that, that was like, man,
that was a huge part of my childhood, Like I was,
let me obsessed with that. So yeah, there was that.
It was like I'd had these this recurring dream which
now I think maybe maybe wasn't a dream, maybe tied

(01:33:25):
in with the later abduction quote unquote abduction stuff. I
don't believe I was a duct It never left my bed,
but a recurring dream of witches in the house and
things like that, and it was really like that which
figure that was just huge in my childhood.

Speaker 3 (01:33:38):
Yeah, I had something similar. I don't know if I
ever mentioned that on our collaborative episodes, but I used
to have night tis as a child and probably up
until I was maybe nine or ten maybe, but I
had a figure that used to come to me in
these recurring dreams and I could I could draw them
from memory, like well, it was a real weird looking

(01:33:58):
creature that was probably about like yeah, three or four
foot tall, had like bark like kind of skin, kind
of wardy brownie kind of bark skin.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
Have you either heard you say this or we did
talk about it?

Speaker 3 (01:34:12):
One?

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:34:13):
Yeah, yeah, I had like one really small and one
really big eye. But he used to show up at
the bottom of my bed and stuff. So I used
to have these dreams where I was like just you know,
in my bed and everything was kind of as at war,
and then that you all can throw up at the
butt with the bed and all this stuff, and they
be kind of trying to pull on your legs and
kind of always being like malevolent. But I would have dreams.

(01:34:34):
I will have different dreams where say I could be
walking down like a really nice kind of sort of
like parochial summer's day of town kind of vibe, going
through like the country somewhere, and he would he would
pop out with a ditch or something, and like he'd
just there and the whole dream and take.

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
A whole different times to go south, and you're like,
what the fuck?

Speaker 3 (01:34:58):
So yeah, Also, i' don't get that. I did have
figures that were of my own mind that were equally
as terrifying. I suppose what are you and you were
Michael Myers.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
That was when I was a bit older, and I
was like into horror, but like young, too young to
really be watching any of this stuff. But thankfully it
didn't like, you know, turn me into Michael and Mike.
So it wasn't like that way about.

Speaker 2 (01:35:19):
It just freaked me out. You know, that's just what
Michael Myers would say.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
Yeah, that's totally Yeah, he's very quiet man. Though, he's
a very quiet man stoic. I'm trying to think that
they're When I was a real small kid, I had
this one experience that was just a nightmare, but that
the I suppose, the way it blended into reality was
kind of weird. I had a dream, and I think

(01:35:44):
it was because I was watching them what's the original
the Clash of the Titans, where like they have the
claymation like the Medusa and stuff, is it?

Speaker 3 (01:35:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:35:56):
Yeah, and Jason the Argonauts is the one with the skeletons, right, yeah, yeah,
So I had two one thing they used to Clash Titans.
For some reason, it reminds me of my nanny's like
little house, and I remember watching it there and just
going to bed and freaking out that Medusa was just
going to be on the top of the stairs and
my nanny had like a small council house, Like there

(01:36:16):
was no way Paduca wouldn't be able to get up
the stairs with their snake body or whatever. But I
remember looking at the doorway and just like I just knew.
I was like, she's around here, She's around here, and
weirdly like it was like something just sort of hit
the side of the bed, like where the blanket was.

(01:36:37):
I'm convinced I probably just moved as a kid and
didn't realize because I was tiny, But I was convinced
that that was like Medusa who had done that, so
that that that freaked me out. And then the other
one I had had a weird, really weird nightmare and
this is kind of Jason and the Argonauts, where I
went into a cave and in the cave there was
all these skeleton bones in the dirt, and one of

(01:36:58):
them just like came back to life, so all the
all the bones joined up and blah blah blah, and
I ran out of the cave and I ran in
the cave and the skeleton was behind me. I was
going across this big kind of you know, spooky sort
of earth bridge connected to this cave. And then the
next thing, I was just in my dad's room shouting,
He's gonna get me, And there was no like it

(01:37:19):
just went from that dream straight in so I must
have slept ran or whatever. And my dad, with like
no context for this, was like I'd be grand and
go back to bed, whereas if I had a kid
and they did that, but like who's gonna get you?
What's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
Oh god, who's in the house.

Speaker 1 (01:37:35):
But he was just like, when it's time to die,
it's time to die.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
It might be when when Alison saw flannel Man and
she's she's screaming. I my eyes closed, and I'm just like,
you're okay, You're okay. And I thought later on, don't
do that, like even look around. Maybe there really is
someone in the room.

Speaker 4 (01:37:54):
Yeah, absolutely, I think that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:37:59):
Then for the Halloween, I think we've we've halloweened enough.

Speaker 3 (01:38:05):
We haven't they been It's been good again. It's just
mad that like even as I was saying earlier, it
is at the very least three years, but I'm fairly
sure this is four years. Yeah, that's a great tradition
and love. We're still here podcast and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
We're reconnected Christmas again for sure?

Speaker 1 (01:38:25):
For sure? Yeah, absolutely for sure this time maybe maybe
UFO is it Christmas or something good? And I don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:38:34):
Yeah, I'm gonna need Allison as well. By the I teller,
she's in the ballgar corner if she doesn't come.

Speaker 1 (01:38:38):
Her cameo today made me delighted, and that was great. Yeah,
she had.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
I heard her come home so and we had just
talked about it. I knew I told her. I didn't
tell her.

Speaker 1 (01:38:47):
Story right, It was a good story. Yeah, sure believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:38:52):
They're so.

Speaker 2 (01:38:53):
Yeah. Thanks everybody sending the stories and appreciate it. Happy
Halloween to y'all cross the Atlantic.

Speaker 1 (01:39:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:39:00):
Yeah, likewise, Happy Halloweens allus in the States as well.
Thanks for listening to us.

Speaker 2 (01:39:04):
All right, we'll be back with more soon.

Speaker 1 (01:39:08):
Boats, Bye bye.

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