Going Postal: Jennifer San Marco

Episode Transcript
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(00:39):
Hello there, and welcome to MurderDictionary Podcast. My name is Brianna and
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(02:28):
and we hope that you enjoy allthat bonus contents. And with that said,
let's move on to our second casefor letter P for going postal.
Tonight, we're talking about Jennifer SanMarco. Yeah, one of the very

(02:49):
few of the women we have.Absolutely Yeah, the percentage of women that
commit workplace violence and by extension,postal service violence is definitely low. So
a little bit of background. Welike last week did a little bit of
info on just the USPS itself.So the United States Postal Service or USPS,

(03:14):
was founded in seventeen seventy five,with Benjamin Franklin serving as the first
Postmaster General, which is something I'mkind of embarrassed. I didn't know.
I'm bad at history. I knewit, but I'd forgotten it. And
I mean, Benjamin Franklin was involvedin everything in seventeen seventy whatever, right,

(03:35):
right, most of the time,and a lot of those things are
a little bit more memorable than being, you know, postmaster general. You
know, yeah, like he wantedthe turkey to be the national bird instead
of the eagle. Yeah, hehad a hand in everything. My favorite
though, is the office episode whenhe comes when they get the Scholastic Speakers

(03:55):
of Scranton and Benjamin Franklin shows upand he's a total tea. Benjamin Franklin's
kind of a creat Boxers a brief. Benjamin's one of my favorite episodes ever.
So yeah, I was totally unawareof that, so I don't know,
I found that really interesting, butit makes a lot of sense.
He's jack of all trades, right. If they needed someone for a position,

(04:18):
it was like, they're a benin there, right. So the
USPS is actually legally obligated to serveall Americans, no matter their geography.
Postage rates have changed as the nationneeded them to be increased, and is
now decided based on whether the itemfits into the sorting machine. If it

(04:44):
doesn't fit, it costs a littlebit more. As of twenty nineteen,
there were four hundred and sixty ninethousand, nine hundred and thirty four career
employees and one hundred and thirty sixthousand, one seventy four on career employees
of course, because COVID, thesenumbers have probably changed in twenty twenty,

(05:06):
but that's the most recent data thathasn't been affected by the pandemic. During
the late eighties and early nineties,there was an undeniable increase in workplace violence,
particularly among postal workers or taking placeat post office locations. From nineteen

(05:29):
eighty six to nineteen ninety eight,there were ten shootings at post offices across
the country. A two thousand andfour study found that of the two hundred
and twenty four workplace murders spanning thirtyyears, the profile of the killer is
most likely a thirty seven year oldsingle male who has been with the company

(05:51):
about four years, and only threepercent of the attackers were women. The
stat often cited about broader workplace violencebeyond just USPS incidents, is that of
the four hundred and fifty workplace murdersusing guns in killings between nineteen seventy six

(06:13):
to two thousand and four, ninetythree percent more men generally men when they
murder it's with guns and women it'syou know, we're sneaky or we're poison
in people, you know, notso up in your face kind of stuff.
Definitely within the true crime community.If you listen to true crime podcast
and watch the shows, you hearthat stated often over and over. You'll

(06:38):
be like, women use poison,men use guns, things like that.
A lot of people know this ascommon knowledge. The term going postal was
coined because of the workplace shootings thatoccurred related to postal workers. USPS started
many different HR department related program sowe're all designed to address stress reduction techniques

(07:03):
for all employees. Each time therewas an incident related to USPS, the
reputation within the general public increasingly kindof swayed towards this opinion that postal workers
are more likely to experience mental healthissues. David Berkowitz, of course,

(07:27):
the famed son of Sam Killer,was working as a mail sorter at the
local USPS office when he was arrestedin New York City. And if you
listen to murder Dictionary often, youknow that we covered Robert Yale Schulman murder
of Long Island, New York sexworkers and his brother Barry, who helped

(07:49):
him dispose of the bodies. Andboth of the Schulmann's were working as overnight
mail sorders at their local post officeat the time at the killings, and
they were career employees that had putin you know, ten years plus.
Yes, today we are talking abouta person who fits into that small three

(08:13):
percent of women postal workers who commitviolence. So Jennifer San Marco was born
on December sixth, nineteen sixty one, in Brooklyn, New York. Most
family members and close friends called herJenny. She had a brother and sister
and a pretty close knit extended familythat were mostly on the East Coast.

(08:41):
Her parents divorced when she was onlyabout five or six years old, and
since it was during the sixties,this was extremely uncommon. So Jenny's family
was very different from that of herclassmates families, and it's safe to assume
there was a little bit of shameand secrecy around it. Classmates say she

(09:05):
didn't talk about her family, andshe spent a lot of time alone.
That's a theme throughout her life.Yes, total isolation and yeah, a
bit of a hermit's. Jenny enjoyedsports like handball. She took business classes

(09:26):
in high school, and she alsojoined drawing club to explore her more creative
artistic side. People that knew herin high school say she was very pretty
well dressed and was friendly and normally, I mean, if you listen to
the show regularly, I don't mentionpeople's looks very often, but it seems

(09:48):
like everybody kept saying the same thing. Oh, she was very pretty,
she was smart, she was verypretty. Every person that described her said
she was pretty. That is acomment a lot with her, So it
was worth including because there was justso many people that use the same wording.
Classmates recalled that she had a prettygood sense of humor and she really

(10:13):
liked to laugh, but she wasactually pretty quiet, so she was really
the one that was making the jokes, but she was always the one participating
and kind of laughing and reacting.When her school districts started bussing in kids
from other neighborhoods, many of thewhite parents and kids began spewing just this

(10:39):
hateful language and speaking negatively about peopleof color. A classmate recalls that Jennifer
was definitely against the bussing, andshe was pretty vocal about her racist views.
She graduated from Edward Murau High Schoolin nineteen seventy eight, then attended

(11:03):
Brooklyn College. She transferred to Rutgersin New Jersey and studied natural resources management
for about three years, but sheactually left school before graduating and never received
a degree. And this kind ofleaving before really completing something is definitely a

(11:26):
theme for Jennifer. Yes, throughoutall of it. Part of me thinks
maybe that she was having some sortof mental episodes and kind of pulling back
from her responsibilities because it came tooverwhelming for her. But that's just kind
of speculation that maybe she'd get toa certain point and three years in she

(11:50):
felt like it was too hard tokind of hold it together, so she
had to step away. Well,there's also I don't know, it's kind
of like she does it for threeyears and then it's like literally on a
dime, she does a one eighty, her focus changes and she's onto something
else. Yes, it's hard forher to stay committed to just doing one
thing and achieving a goal. Definitelyat minimum. In nineteen eighty nine,

(12:16):
twenty eight year old Jennifer moved acrossthe entire country to California because she had
found a job as a guard atthe Chuckwalla Valley State Prison in blythe California,
which is just outside Riverside. Imean one eighty spin other side of
the country. You can't get furtheraway exactly totally. She's a very extreme,

(12:41):
no gray area, black or white, East or West kind of person.
Yes, co workers described Jenny asa good worker, but only two
days before her probationary period was up, she abruptly quit without giving any reason.

(13:01):
And like I said, this incidentwas part of an overall pattern for
Jennifer where she would do this overand over again. She had many different
jobs, some of which were actuallyhighly sought after, really great jobs that
weren't easy to obtain, and thenshe would get the job, work for

(13:24):
a little while, even a matterof months, a very short period of
time, and then abruptly leave.It just makes us wonder why she would
quit. They're all really good jobsthat a lot of people want. I
mean, it's jobs that you know, people you and I know people everyone
knows really have to go through alot to get and then once they get
them, like you're in and youkeep you know, whatever you gotta do,

(13:48):
you got to keep that job,like healthcare everything. Yeah, she's
definitely going out for these jobs whereit's like background checks, evaluations, you've
got to go through, jumping allthese hoops and then to just quit after
going through probably a months long problike the background and the getting into the

(14:09):
job probably took longer than she actuallystayed at the job. On most of
these, Yeah, some of themdefinitely. Jenny relocated to the Santa Barbara
area, and it's believed that sinceshe had a cousin who lived in Montecito,
she got the idea to move there. And I don't know, everybody

(14:33):
in La kind of knows Santa Barbara. It's just a very local, not
too far vacation chill destination. Maybecourt you could kind of explain Santa Barbara.
It's where Oprah and Neverland Ranch are. Okay, so you got there
already, So yeah, it's probablylike an hour and a half two hours

(14:56):
north. It's beach, so it'snot it's like North Beach, so it's
it's cooler. It's never gonna belike you know, over eighty five there.
It's really just the weather's amazing.Um. It's kind of like a
North Palm Springs. Like people,you know, if you want to go
hot, you go Palm Springs.You want to cool off, you go
North. Um. Super like thelittle downtown Historical is really fun. Lots
of bars. Uh, the wineries, there's restaurants, super good hiking that's

(15:20):
like really scenicum, tons of money. Like it's a very affluent area for
sure. Like you said, Oprah'sthere. Neverland Ranch was up there,
Sam laibispo Um, the Markles youknow live up there now. Yeah,
yeah, you go below lives inMontecito. So you know, it's it's

(15:43):
a little little tony, little neighborhood, right, Yeah. A lot of
celebrities go down there. And theother thing is it's a college town.
It's kind of progressive. It's abit of a hippie town very much.
Yeah. And so it's I think, you know, known for the college,
the really nice houses, the beachcommunity, and the money. So

(16:07):
that's Santa Barbara. There you go. Jennifer's landlord said she never had friends
or visitors over and seemed to livea very isolated and lonely life. By
nineteen ninety five, Jenny was athirty four year old police dispatcher for the
Santa Barbara PD, which was ahigh stress job and again something that was

(16:34):
hard to get into if you've gota police background check. I mean,
it probably took her months to getthis job. I mean just finding out
like their hiring go ahead. Howdid you even get this? You know,
lead, It's bizarre. Yeah.The position also required that she passed

(16:55):
a comprehensive background check, including apsych evaluation, but again after only four
months, she quit. In nineteenninety seven, she began working the night
shift as a mail sorting clerk inthe USPS mail handling facility in Goalida,

(17:17):
California, which is a small townjust west of Santa Barbara. So,
Goalida is basically between Santa Barbara andI La Visto, which is just a
little town where you see Santa Barbarais Goaliita has really good little tiny restaurants
for clam chowder and fish, superchill, little beach town. This is

(17:40):
even more like laid back to methan Santa Barbara's Goalida, definitely, if
Santa Barbara is the city, theseare like the little suburbs, if you
could call it that. Yes,she sorted the mail that was too large
to fit into the sorting machines.It was a monotonous, but dependable and

(18:02):
consistent job because as we know quotequotes Newman and says, the mail never
stops. It's true, the mailenever stops like I'll never forget that even
as a kid, Like that episodewhere they specifically discussed the mail stuck with
me. I don't know why,but it never stops. And I I've
always thought that must be a veryhigh stressed job. Your constant deadline is

(18:25):
now, yes, absolutely, becauseof the loud noises in the facility that
all these crazy sorting machines make.Many people who did this job we're hearing
protection or they also could listen tomusic or books on tape, etc.

(18:47):
Just to drown out the sounds ofthese just monstrous loud machines. Jennifer's shift
began at nine pm, and peopledescribe her as an efficient and fast worker.
A colleague says he remembers when shestarted and how he initially thought she

(19:10):
was smart, quiet, and verypretty. Again, yes, they always
say that. One former co workerdescribes her as quote both gregarious and a
loaner. And this is because shecould be perfectly pleasant sometimes and then just

(19:30):
cold and standoffish other times. Iidentify there, you just never knew what
you were going to get. Ever, once she settled into her new job,
people began noticing how quote night anddays she was and they said she
would switch moods very frequently and verysuddenly. After saving up some money,

(19:53):
she was able to buy a condominiumon nearby Overpass Road in nineteen nine eight.
This to me is like she's she'sbuying a condo, she's got her
job. There's behavioral things she doesthat doesn't make sense, but again on

(20:14):
paper, she's got everything going thatyou're supposed to do. You get the
good career job and then you buyyour little place, and she's buy herself.
A single woman, so she buysa condo so she's safe. It's
not too much house for her,you know, Rightnyway, and it's not
an inexpensive area to live lets Ithought the same thing. Yeah, she

(20:34):
had to really work hard for thisgoal, and like you said, to
be on paper achieving these things,it really probably wasn't easy for her,
but she did it. Residence ofher condo complex describe her as difficult and
inflexible when dealing with others. Oneparticular neighbor, a fifty four year old

(21:00):
telephone operator named Beverly Graham, justwanted peace and quiet at her home,
and she told Jennifer that she didn'tappreciate her disregard for her neighbors. They
had heated arguments over Jennifer's singing profanerap lyrics loudly outside and ranting and raving

(21:21):
in front of her building. Now, I don't know if it's like two
Live Crew or the Whisper song.We don't know. I tried so hard.
That was like one thing I wantedto know so bad. It was
like, what was she screaming?Like the lap the rap lyrics specifically,
and then also Santa Barbara is alot of retirees. Forgot about that.
A lot of older people. Youknow, your golden years, you retire,

(21:42):
you can move out town. Alot of people older live in Santa
Barbara, so they're just trying tochill out and be quiet and just live
a laid back life. Absolutely,I think, you know, it is
this weird mix of there's a collegetown, so like there might be a
little bit of partying towards Isla Vista, but outside Santa Barbara, Galita,

(22:03):
Montecito, there's definitely a lot morequiet, chill hippies and older people that
really just want to relax. Sothis is very disruptive to them, this
kind of behavior. Another woman saidquote she was always talking to herself,

(22:26):
but she didn't make any sense.Her sentences weren't structured. I didn't understand
anything she said. She'd be walkingin my direction and I'd cross the street.
I mean, yeah, sound advice. If that's the only interaction you
have with her, Yeah, youjust I mean, it's not like you
knew her before or have any personalconnection. It's a little bit concerning behavior,

(22:49):
and it makes people uncomfortable. Thesituation with her neighbors escalated, and
of course, when talking really didn'thelp the situation, her neighbor Beverly decided
to call the police. She fileda noise complaint, which made Jennifer extremely
angry, and she continued to holda grudge for a long time to come.

(23:17):
In two thousand, she took onworking a second job, being a
high school lunch lady, but afteronly a brief period of time, she
quit. We don't know if sheneeded the money, if there was something
going on where she needed this secondjob. Never hear anything about children related
to her at all. So it'sinteresting to me that she goes to work

(23:38):
at a school, but you know, yeah, I don't know. The
other interesting thing to me was thatshe clearly gravitates to these, you know,
like government city, non private sectorjobs. You don't hear of her
just working a retail or at apet store or in a medical office or

(23:59):
anything like that. It's always forschools, post office, police corrections.
These are all government related jobs.And I find that really fascinating. It's
to me speaks of maybe like aneed for structure or something, or a
belief in the system. I don'tknow what it is. I can't figure

(24:19):
it out. If you guys havetheories, let us know. Oh yeah,
tell us your theories. Meanwhile,at her main job at the USPS,
she became paranoid that her co workerswere talking about her, and she
desperately wanted to know what they weresaying about her. And you know,

(24:41):
it's true that there's no denying thatJennifer experienced delusions and paranoia. We know
this by now. But in truth, she may have been correct that they
might have been actually talking about her. But the reason was they were concerned
that she was exhibiting some strange,odd concerning behavior. Co workers had noticed

(25:10):
that she had begun talking to herselfwhile sorting the mail. They said,
you know, it was fine atfirst, but it seemed like as time
went on, her conversations changed toneand they got increasingly more and more angry.
One colleague recalls her snapping and yellingat him while he was just saying

(25:33):
hello at the beginning of a shift. Another coworker says that one time she
came in with lipstick going straight acrossher mouth area, like she was just
putting on war paints. It's likeRobert Smith, right, Yes, it's

(25:53):
just kind of sloppily put one,or even worse than that. The way
that the person described it was justlike she's holding it in a fist and
just went straight across her face,you know, just like two lines of
lipstick, you know, one forthe upper lip, one for the lower

(26:14):
lip. It was like an equalsign in her general lip region. I
would die if we were both sittingin the break room at work or something
and we saw that and just lookedat each other at the same like you
saw that, right, Like we'renot imagining things, yeah, and then
we had to pretend everything is normaland go back to work. And that's
the thing is just she's definitely havingdelusions, hearing things, talking to imaginary

(26:41):
people, and she's experiencing this deepparanoia, but the paranoia isn't unfounded.
It's based on her behavior. Youknow. It's like this cyclical thing where
she's exhibiting these strange, concerning behaviors. Then people are talking about it,
and she's obsessing about how people aretalking about her and acting a little bit

(27:03):
stranger, and now more people aretalking about her, and then she's kind
of escalating and getting angry and rude, and now people are talking about that.
You know, it's just this cycleor spiral that keeps going kind of
downward, you know. Yes,So they said that she would chant or
sing loudly at her workstation, whichdrew a lot of attention. People also

(27:30):
recall that she began occasionally making racistcomments, but they were not really aimed
at specific co workers, and therewere never any direct threats of violence.
Unfortunately, her racism was minimized bythose around her, who dismissed her comments

(27:51):
as just another component of her beingquote all around weird. It is said
she had a particular hatred that wasdirected at people of Asian descent. Then,
in February two thousand and one,Jennifer made a comment to her coworker

(28:11):
Dexter Shannon that was a big dealenough for him to complain to their supervisor.
Dexter was a dedicated father and grandfatherwho people said was extremely kind.
He had served in the Air Forceand also survived Vietnam. His coworkers say

(28:33):
he never said a bad word aboutanyone, and it must have been a
big deal for him to really speakup about Jennifer. So the conversation with
Dexter was reportedly about a former employeewho had committed suicide, and we don't
really know specifics, but Dexter wasworried by Jennifer's comments, so much so

(28:57):
that he went to a super advisorto just express that he was concerned for
her safety. When the supervisor askedher to come into the office, she
refused then became extremely combative. Thesituation escalated to the point where they actually

(29:21):
called the police. When the copsarrived, Jennifer took off running as soon
as she saw them, so theyhad to actually chase her through the mail
sorting facility. What is the motivationto run from the cops as soon as
you see them, Like, doyou know they're coming for you you just
immediately assume or do you have anissue with police? Maybe after working at

(29:45):
the Dispatch. It's bizarre. Idon't know. I couldn't figure more details
about that. It seems very strange. I mean, we see this,
you know, of all people,you are obsessed with car chases, so
it famine for people to run frompolice. But I think there's just so
much paranoia going on for her.We don't know how the depths of it

(30:11):
in her brain. I don't knowwhat she was scared of, but it
scared her enough to run away.Yeah, and she didn't have any sort
of criminal record that we know of, so it's not like she's like,
oh shit, I have a warrant. You know, she ran just out
of this you know, mental healthissue where she was just scared of them.

(30:33):
It took two officers, one holdingher hands and one holding her feet
to eventually restrain her. They handcuffedher and a mental health professional was called
in to do an assessment. Itwas decided that she should be taken in
on an involuntary hold in a Venturapsychiatric facility for three days. She was

(30:59):
held on a fifty one fifty,during which time she was assessed and diagnosed,
but she refused to admit that shehad any challenges and she denied both
treatment and follow up care. Jennifersimply completed her stay at the facility that
was required, then came out andresumed life as usual, like just nothing

(31:25):
happened. Co workers were shocked whenonly days later she was allowed to return
to work. That would shock meif I looked up and there she was,
just back and nobody said anything.Nothing, you know, no,
not form of discipline, but youknow nothing's going to be done about this,

(31:47):
Like you're letting her back. Ohmy god. Right, Yeah.
It would be different if you knowthere was knowledge that she was going to
get treatment, that she had beguntaking medication. But if she comes back
and first day she's standing at herstation chanting, screaming her little songs,
you know, not talking to people, snapping at someone that says a low

(32:12):
to her, I mean it's clearthat nothing has changed. It would be
different if she took a leave shewas like gone for thirty days, got
on a medication and it started working, and then she comes back and you're
like, Okay, that's great,she's made progress. But clearly after only
a couple of days and not gettingtreatment, you can visibly see and let's

(32:35):
be honest, you can hear thatshe's still in the same place emotionally and
mentally as when she had the breakdown. That's what's the scary concerning part.
Yes, if you have a mentalhealth problem, you know, yes,
you should be coming back to workand be able to get help and get

(32:55):
treatment and get better and move onwith your life, be healthy. But
clearly that's not what happened here,and it was just obvious to everybody around
her that nothing had changed and shewas just back like nothing happened. Her
mental state had become so strained thateventually she didn't speak to anybody at work

(33:21):
at all, just complete silence fromwhat people say. But she still did
her work every day and she wasstill a good worker, so she didn't
get in any trouble. So thingswent okay for a couple of years,
but then in two thousand and three, Jennifer had another mental breakdown at work.

(33:45):
During the incident, she climbed underneatha mail sorting machine and refused to
come out. The police were calledagain, but when they arrived, she
still just date under the machine andrefuse to budge. Eventually, the officers

(34:06):
became impatient and decided that they hadto physically retrieve her and force her out
from under the machine. Jennifer washandcuffed, lifted onto a mail sordering cart,
then wheeled to an ambulance and takeinto the hospital. After this being

(34:28):
the second incident during her six yearten years spent working there, the USPS
determined that she should no longer workas a mail sorder Jennifer was placed on
a retirement disability leave and would receivedisability checks to support herself, and of

(34:50):
course the preference would be that shegets the mental health help. But in
a way, I mean, Ithink that's what they were trying to do.
I think they were assuming the jobis really stressful for her. Maybe
this is exacerbating her mental state andshe just needs the time to be out
of the workplace and take care ofherself. Yeah. I mean, if

(35:13):
she is receiving money every month andshe doesn't have to worry about the work,
then she can focus on herself.But the problem is the person has
to be self aware and understand thatthere's a problem that they want to treat,
right. I think that they hadthe good intention and she just was
resistant to it. And of coursethat's a component of the mental health challenges.

(35:35):
There are a lot of diagnoses wheresomeone thinks that they reach a place
where they're okay because they get onmedication for a while, then they stopped
taking the medication, or that theyjust don't believe that there's an issue at
all, which seems like that's kindof the category she falls into. She
really didn't think she had a problem. She didn't see these challenges as issues,

(36:00):
and so therefore wouldn't get the treatment. But I think the Post Office
was trying to do right by herand say, here's the opportunity for you
to not have to work, notbe stressed, and be able to take
care of yourself. But that justwasn't the emotional place she was in to
actually get the help. It wasdescribed that she was placed on leave more

(36:24):
for the safety of herself, notthat she appeared to be a threat to
others. In two thousand and four, Jennifer decided she would drive back to
New York to see her family onthe East Coast. I don't know if
this was one of those impulse oneeighties or if it was like, Okay,

(36:45):
I've got some free time, I'mgetting my check, you know,
I'll just go see some family.Right now, or if it was just
you know, I'm gonna do thisnow. Yeah, it's really hard to
tell with her because she did haveso many of those impulses. But also
she has this newfound, you know, retirement, She's able to support herself,

(37:06):
so who knows. During her crosscountry road trip, Jennifer's car actually
broke down in Grants, New Mexico, which is about seventy miles west of
Albuquerque. Instead of getting the carfixed and getting back on the road,

(37:27):
Jennifer decided to just stay in NewMexico. Yeah, let's try this on
right. It makes me think,this is how a lot of people,
you know, we see we seethese people that they're not necessarily drug addicts
or alcoholics on the streets. They'rejust they are mentally ill, and they
can drive cars, and they canlive in and out of them, and

(37:50):
you know, they can do allthis, and you're like, how do
they get to these places? Likecross country? You'll see you know,
Tennessee plates and I'll like, You'relike, how the hell did you get
here? Okay, could be assimple as broke down here and now they
live here. And it never occurredto me that like, oh, I'm
stuck here. I'll just stay becauseto me and you, it's like,
oh, I'm stuck here, now, let me continue the journey to get

(38:10):
back where I was going right right, Yes, I think there was nowhere
to go there. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like, I don't know,
just another odd behavior that she wouldbreak down and then just be like,
well, this is my new home, you know, because most people

(38:30):
would not think that way. Theywould be like, all right, gotta
flat tire, Gotta put the spaaron and get to a tire place.
You know, the engine blew up, I gotta find the nearest mechanic.
But she was not in that mindset. She was just like, this is
it. I'm staying, you know, not at all very strange. I

(38:50):
just it really like blew my mindit For a second. I was like,
oh my god, I get whatthis makes like it makes no sense
and it makes perfect sense. Youknow. It seems like I guess there's
a part of me to be perfectlyhonest, and maybe this is just left
field me talking about myself, butthere's a part of me that envies this
kind of attitude. You know thatI could just be living off of a

(39:15):
retirement fund and drive across country firstof all, which is an ultimate dream
of mine. Second of all,break down somewhere and just be like fuck
it all, stay you know,like having that kind of free spirit,
you know, and just going withthe flow. I could never live like
that, but I kind of envyit. But with her, it just

(39:37):
comes with this just deep burden ofmental health challenges. But there is something
that seems kind of like it's partof an indie movie, you know,
yea. And by the way,I think everybody is with you on this,
Like if you didn't have to worryabout paying your rent, making money
every month, and you could justdrive cross country. I mean, of

(40:00):
course, who wouldn't want to dothis, you know, and have no
responsibilities and live this way and justdrive to this beach to this beach across
the country and see what the fuckhappens in between. Right, That's fine,
I get it, But like we'vegot responsibilities and things we have to
handle it. It's like, youknow, this is this is real life
like for us. So then Jennifer, who's just able to do that,

(40:22):
but the mental illness is just alwaysgoing to hinder her because she could like
restart her life and do something differentin New Mexico. But oh, it's
just always a problem. Yeah,absolutely, I call it. It's something
that I talk about and daydream abouta lot. I call it running away
with the circus. It's my littleterm for it is just like, yeah,

(40:45):
just to go to a random town, get a random job at a
dairy queen, and just stay therefor six months, you know, Like
that's my little like, Oh,I'd love to do that, just experience
what it's like. Right. Butfor Jennifer, I mean, she's clearly
struggling and just kind of doesn't haveties anywhere. She doesn't have that responsibility.

(41:07):
She doesn't even really have friends,as we've hearing many people describe.
So it's not like she's close withher family, has friends, a relationship,
there's and a job. There's nothingkeeping her at one place or the
other. So why not just staywherever her car breaks down? Yeah?

(41:32):
She mostly stayed in the town ofMilan and then moved to a yellow,
two story house in unincorporated Saboya County. It was a small town and her
property was described as desolate. Shewas known by the local businesses for strange

(41:54):
behavior that included shouting furiously at herselfwhile in conversation with others, ordering food
at restaurants, then just dashing beforeshe'd pay for it or even eat it.
She would also buy groceries then justkind of walk outside and throw them

(42:14):
in the trash cans in front ofthe store, and people report that she
even sometimes put her money in thetrash. Owner of the local coffee shop,
fifty seven year old Clem Goert,said, quote, nobody wanted to
be here alone with her. Shenever did anything threatening, but her behavior

(42:37):
always left you uncomfortable. She wasseen kneeling and praying in random places,
stripping naked in public, oftentimes parkinglots, screaming racist comments at passers by,
and being generally just kind of menacingto people on the streets. She

(43:00):
deteriorates so fast in New Mexico.I don't know, there's part of me
that believes having a job kind oftethered her to reality. Even yeah,
saying it, but it's like athousand percent. Yeah, So then it's
like, well, I have nothingto lose. I can just let all
these things that are instincts and goingon in my head, I can just

(43:22):
let them out. Yeah, Andthere's no she has no friends like you
said, you know, and itjust becomes clearer and clearer that she there's
no logic and reason that's out thewindow, right. Yeah, she's just
very detached from reality at this point. The guy who delivered propane to her

(43:46):
for two years says she was verypolite and always paid on time, but
she did talk to her imaginary friendsand would argue about who paid the bill
in front of him to someone whojust wasn't there. In July two thousand

(44:07):
and four, she began writing anddistributing her own seven page newsletter full of
her thoughts and ideas. In it, she explained how different religions were linked
and laid out a conspiracy theory thatlinked the US government to David Berkowitz,
the KKK, and the Rocky HorrorPicture Show to martyrs. She paid thirty

(44:35):
five dollars to apply for a businesslicense to distribute and publish her periodical,
what she called the Racist Press.Understandably, the application was denied. It's
so bizarre how the racism, youknow, it goes back to her childhood

(44:55):
definitely, but as her mental stategets worse and worse and worse, it's
like, I mean, it's alwaysthere but it just becomes like she manifests
and becomes just hate like incarnate,and I don't even know like where I
mean, that's just you want tocall it mental illness, But you know

(45:16):
that she was affected prior, andis this how she acts out for attention
because it's something so just vitriol disgustingthat it'll get attention. Like we see
all these people having mental breakdowns,you know, the first thing they go
to is racist and like disgusting comments. Right, But there's just nothing you

(45:37):
can say about this that's like gonnamake sense the weird thing to me.
So she did call it the racistPress. But the thing is, and
I am not denying it at all, that she was racist. She was
racist thousand million percent. But theactual writing that were included on what she

(46:01):
proposed as her release for this littlepaper, the Racist Press, actually didn't
talk about race as much as youwould think, which was really strange because
the people that you got the businesslicense application and got the proposal of the

(46:21):
periodicals that she wanted to put outjust described it as just a continuation of
these incoherent ramblings and it barely mentionedrace. We know from her other behaviors
her words, her actions, andsome of her other writings that she was
definitely racist. However, oddly,this racist press actually didn't have much about

(46:45):
race in it, which is veryconfusing. It's not even like she wants
the attention. It's just something soinflammatory and out there. You know.
I think she was going for inflammatory, flat value exactly. That's the word
I was looking for, getting attention, shock value. She was going for

(47:07):
that. And that's definitely not todownplay that she was racist. I am
not saying that at all. Butthe title itself was clearly just for that.
And you could tell from her otherwritings what her opinions were, and
they're shitty and awful. But thisparticular paper that she was putting out was

(47:29):
just rambling's incoherent thoughts, not relatedto race at all. It was very
strange that she would even title itthat. Around the same time, she'd
also try to register a cat foodbusiness, but due to her location in
Sabola County at the time, itwas denied by the town's business office.

(47:58):
An employee of the Milan Village Hallnamed Sonia Salazar had become a fixation of
Jennifer's. Sonya, says Jennifer initiallycame in just to pay her bill,
but pretty soon she started asking forSonia every time she came in. Then

(48:19):
it escalated to where she began onlydealing with Sonia and she'd actually leave if
Sonia wasn't there. Then Jennifer wouldoften just randomly show up at the office
and ask to see Sonia for noreason at all. This happened so frequently
that it really freaks Sonia out,and she began to hide when Jennifer came

(48:43):
in, or co workers would warnher, you know, Jennifer's on her
way, and she'd run into theback somewhere, which is something completely normal
for like retail workers and a lotof women in the workforce in general were
forced to go sit in the backway, wait for this asshole fucking leave
and now we can come back up. Yeah, there's definitely if you work

(49:05):
the front lines of any sort ofretail or customer service job, you have
people that you avoid. Yeah,Sonia said quote. She would just come
in here and stare at me.We knew she had mental problems and we
felt sorry for her. In Novembertwo thousand and four, a mental health

(49:29):
clinic manager named Darlene Hayes saw Jenniferalone in the parking lot of a post
office and she was kneeling by hercar and talking to herself. When Darlene
asked what she was doing, Jenniferreplied, quote, they pray before they
get in, believing that she waswith her sister and brother who'd be getting

(49:52):
in the car shortly. That's freaky. Yeah. Again, she's clearly experiencing
some auditory and visual hallucinations and delusions. At this point, Darlene called police,
reported that Jennifer was in mental distressand needed an evaluation, but she

(50:15):
left before ensuring the police took herin for treatment. A police lieutenant maintains
that there's no record of this callfrom Darlene. Okay, I don't know
what manager of a mental health clinicby profession stops and sees this and does

(50:37):
all of this to call the policeand try to help, and then doesn't
stay to see it through. Yeah, And there's part of understands that,
and then the other part of meis just like, oh, what is
she going to do? Jump intothe ambulance with her and make sure they
take her to a facility. Youknow, she's there to tell the police
what you know's what's the word.Throughout the process of this episode, I

(51:00):
should preface this whole episode with us, I became extremely like almost protective of
this woman's mental state. It's reallyupsetting to me that there, again,
there were so many times that,you know, something could have been done
or whatever, but she could havejust recounted the police what she was seeing
so that they could call and haveher evaluated. Right, That's like all

(51:22):
I'm saying, But you know,nobody asked. I assumed that she just
stayed till they got there, untilparamedics arrived, and then was just like,
here's what I saw, and thenshe left because now they're in the
hands and the care of other professionals. That's what I assumed was going on,
because there's only so much she coulddo. It's she's not an E

(51:44):
and T. She's not the personthat is supposed to evaluate these things.
So you give your report and youleave. That's what I thought happened,
you know, I suppose, butI'm not sure. I know there was
a woman that was posted on Facebookand a couple of groups in my neighborhood,
and they've been looking for her andshe is, you know, diagnosed

(52:07):
mentally mentally ill. She wanders aroundthe neighborhood with a stroller of babies baby
dolls, and has names for themall and talks about them. And she
had gotten out. I don't hateto say like loose, but she was
missing and I saw her at aBurger King and my mother. I called
my mom and we both sat inthis parking lot. I called a social
worker, I know, I calledsomebody I knew that works in the police

(52:29):
station. And we stayed there forlike two hours until mental health evaluation came
to the burger King and sat withus, and I described what I was
seeing, everything I had heard aboutthis. You know they're going to send
the family. I mean, itwas like, I don't know, I
just she needed help. I hadseen it on the internet. I knew
what was going on and I couldexplain it. And I know that they

(52:50):
did take her for evaluation. Iknow nothing else, but I know I
haven't seen anything posted. And like, if nothing else happened, at least
I was able to try to dosomething because Jennifer needed somebody to do that
for her, right box. Now, okay, you can got this whole
thing anyway. No, I knowexactly what you're saying, I mean,

(53:10):
it's just you don't want to hearthese stories of people giving up on her.
And there's a couple things at playhere. She has denied treatment,
she is evading police a lot,and she clearly doesn't want the help and
doesn't think she has a problem.And at what point can you kind of

(53:30):
force her, you know? ButI think trying to get authorities involved.
I think Darlene was trying to help. And I don't know to what extent
she stayed there, but you're right, I mean, there was more opportunities
by different individuals to do what youdid at Burger King. You know,

(53:51):
there was definitely more people that couldhave stepped in, and the more reports
that they have, it could havebeen argued that she needed to be put
long term into a facility till shecould get normalized and get to a better
place. Hopefully, Yes, butthat never happened, and it is tragic

(54:12):
to think that this was, again, like we always say, just avoidable
by simply being able to get thehelp and the resources that she needed.
On March third, two thousand andfive, Jennifer came to the business office
looking for Sonya yet again, andshe became irate when she wasn't able to

(54:37):
see her. The cops were called, but she fled the scene before they
arrived, and this is a recurringtheme. Definitely. Over the next year,
Jennifer's mental state would deteriorate greatly,and anyone who dealt with her previously
had noticed just this sharp decline.Her appearance changed. She started getting tattoos

(55:04):
and chopped her hair unevenly, sothere were these buzzed patches and then long
chunks hanging off at random, whichwere obviously done by herself with some sort
of knife. Yeah, that's alook you remember, Yeah, And it
is a sign. Just seeing herphysically change, people could see her mental

(55:30):
state was changing as well. It'sprobably unsettling. During this time, Jennifer
had frequent run ins with the policeas a result of her behavior. When
the cops were called, because shewas naked, she would just put her
clothes back on, so by thetime the cops arrived they couldn't really do

(55:51):
anything. The one time the copsdid actually catch her driving naked, they
simply reprimanded her and let her gowith a verbal warning. There's no evidence
of her using drugs or alcohol,so it seems really that her issues that
she struggled with were entirely from untreatedmental illness. Although she clearly suffered from

(56:22):
untreated mental health challenges and most locals, including police, were aware of her
concerning behavior, she was not broughtin to a mental health facility or provided
with psychiatric health so, as faras we know, the only time she
received mental healthcare was during that fiftyone fifty while she was working at the

(56:44):
post office, when she denied treatmentand follow up care. Sometime during her
stay in New Mexico, she beganto believe that she was the target of
a far reaching conspiracy that was hatchedby her former co workers at the Goalita,
California post office. Jennifer detailed herthoughts by writing, rambling scribbles and

(57:09):
notebooks at her home, oftentimes discussingher paranoia that there were people out to
get her. Later, a mechanicwould say that she had told him she
was wronged by the postal service,where she had worked two years prior,
and said that they quote had topay. I wonder if that guy thought

(57:32):
anything about because at this point postgoing postal is considered you know, that's
a normal. It's in the lexiconnow, so I'm wondering if he hears
like this clearly unsettled person talking tohim about he's working with postal service,
they're gonna pay, Like whoa,Okay, keep going like yeah, I

(57:53):
would. I don't want to talkto her, you know. I wonder
if those alarm bells were going offor if he was like, she's just
venting. You know, people justget kind of passionate sometimes, you know,
Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah,it's one of those things we see
a lot where it's like, inhindsight, Oh, I put all these
puzzle pieces together, and this allmakes sense. But you know, this

(58:19):
is a little bit of an extremecase of that. Because she had so
many extreme behaviors, that's a littlebit harder to minimize it and say that
she's venting when she's also exhibiting allthese other behaviors. Yes, she ominously
told him that she was going tobe gone for a while, but she
never specifically said that she planned toexact revenge or kill anyone. Jennifer began

(58:46):
telling people in the area that shehad sold her gondo and would be going
to visit a sister on the Eastcoast. In August two thousand and five,
Jennifer went to eight Pawn and Antiquesin Grants, New Mexico, where
she filled out all the necessary paperworkto purchase a gun. Is there a

(59:08):
police on the paperwork that asks aboutthe hairstyle? Because if someone walks in
and ask for a gun and theyhave knife bald spots on their head,
and you know, I have weirdhair and people stare at me all the
time, but I have never cutmy hair off with a knife. I've

(59:28):
shaved my head. But this isdefinitely from what everyone describes. Her hair
looked like she clearly had mental healthchallenges. She was talking to herself.
How did this person sitting there withher letting her fill out this paperwork think,
yeah, let's give this lady agun. Well, I can think

(59:49):
of somebody else with a bit ofa jagged hairstyle named Joe Exotic who used
to walk into Walmart at the sportinggoods department to that kid who quote said
he he knew that Joe was quotebatshit crazy from our dealings at Walmart because
he would but he would still sellthem tannerite and guns, and he'd limited
them out on Ammo daily, likenever asking a question. And then became

(01:00:13):
his campaign manager when we're in forgovernor. So I mean, we would
love for them to ask questions andsay, hey, your hairstyle is a
little bit questionable, buddy, Butthey don't. That's simple, and I
can say Joe Exotic is definitely enoughfor example of that exact thing that makes
a lot of sense. I'm gladyou brought up Joe for us because I
didn't even think about that. Butit's just like there's no questions that people

(01:00:37):
are asking. I feel like justthe system is so eager to give guns
out to people. It just doesn'tmake sense that we're not protecting our other
citizens by saying, hey, JoeExotic, you're in here every fucking day,
you're clearly a mess. You justwe got to cut you off,
like you send someone home at abar when they're clearly had too much.

(01:01:00):
She put them in a fucking taxi. I mean, what the fuck you
cut him off? This is justoff from Walmart though. That's the problem,
right, And they don't cut youoff clearly at this random ace pawn
in New Mexico where she's walking inexhibiting all this Jennifer San Marco energy,

(01:01:23):
you know, and like I'm crazyshit too, you know, because she
didn't hesitate to say things that justmake no damn sense. So I don't
know, it's just like every ofthese cases that we read where they get
guns, you know, it justdoesn't make sense. There's a lot of
other cases that we talk about whereit's like, yeah, you look at

(01:01:45):
this person and they really didn't exhibitthe kind of behavior that Jennifer did.
But this is just this is overthe top. I really can't believe that
someone approved her and gave her afirearm. So she waited the required two

(01:02:06):
days and then went back to theshop and legally bought a nine millimeter semi
automatic Smith and Wesson pistol for threehundred and twenty five dollars. Jennifer then
purchased the ammunition for it at anotherpond shop in Gallop, New Mexico,
passing yet another background check required forthe sale of ammunition. Because of her

(01:02:31):
forced psychiatric hospital stay, she wouldhave been barred by California's stricter state laws
from buying either a gun or ammofor at least five years. However,
New Mexico goes by federal laws,which are of course somewhat more lax when
it comes to mental health as adeciding factor. So the mental health restrictions

(01:02:58):
did not apply to Jennifer and shewas able to legally buy a gun in
New Mexico. It's wild. Yeah, this also scares me because we do
have these restrictions in the state thatwe live in. But if someone wanted
after getting out of a fifty onefifty hold, they could just go across
state lines and get it. Gune, I just it blows my mind.

(01:03:24):
Yeah, no, I mean,it doesn't seem to be a problem,
and it kind of bugs me thatthe federal law doesn't have that mental health
thing about the five years. Ithink that's just kind of a good broad
law that one should be federal aswell. I believe that should be across
the board that if you just gotoff a fifty and fifty hold, you

(01:03:45):
shouldn't be able to do this.But I'm hoping things have changed a bit.
I hope so, because that justreally bothers me, because you don't
know why someone's on a fifty andfifty eight. You know that we're just
really big advocates for mental health,and I'm open about the things that I
struggle with and the people that Ilove struggle with. It's just I don't

(01:04:06):
judge people for their mental health.But at the same time, like,
I want to make sure that someonewho is maybe put on a hold because
they threatened their significant other and theywant to kill their significant other or they
want to kill themselves doesn't have themeans to complete those violent actions. You

(01:04:27):
know what I mean. If you'reput on hold because you're like, oh,
I want to shoot myself, thenyou can just go across state lines
seventy two hours later. That shouldn'tbe possible. It just shouldn't. It's
just not okay to me. Nope. So, after she obtained the gun
and AMMO, she began practicing shootingin the week prior to her planned attack

(01:04:51):
on the USPS. The day beforeshe planned to attack her former co workers,
she shaved her head, which peoplesaid made her appear different than she
ever had before and left her lookingunrecognizable. Jennifer traveled all the way from

(01:05:15):
New Mexico to Goalia, California,all in one long drive. Receipts showed
that the day before the shooting,she stopped in La to get a car
wash. On January thirtieth, twothousand and six, Jennifer went to the
condo complex in Goalida, where sheused to own a condo and live at

(01:05:42):
the first victim of Jennifer's rampage washer former neighbor, Beverly Graham, who,
as we know, had disputed withher over noise complaints and called the
cops on her. Jennifer climbed afence, then entered beverly condo through an
unlocked sliding glass store. She shotBeverly several times at the foot of the

(01:06:08):
stairs and killed her in her home. Neighbors said that they heard the shots
around seven to fifteen pm, butthey really didn't know what to think of
it, and they didn't call itin. You're in a condo complex where
you share walls with people, soif you hear gunshots, like it's going

(01:06:29):
to be really loud. So Ifind it very bizarre, especially in that
area, that they didn't call thatin. It does seem strange. And
like we said, I mean,this area is just calm, quiet hippies,
no violence, no crime. Imean, it's just I don't know
how someone could hear gunshots and notcall it in. Now I live in

(01:06:53):
Van Eyes, where there's fireworks andgunshots every single day. But I don't
call it in because it's happening allthe time. But if I lived in
Santa Barbara, if I lived inGoalita, if I you know, it
would be like, this doesn't happen. I've never heard this before. I
share a wall with someone that's comingfrom Beverly's condo, I gotta call the

(01:07:16):
police, you know. Yeah,it's it's shocking. I mean, just
like later when that UCSB shooting too, it was like Santa Barbara, like,
what are you talking about? Youknow, it just doesn't make sense.
Yeah, the Elliott Roger crime wasdefinitely his spree really rocked the community
because those things, like they say, they just don't happen in Santa Barbara,

(01:07:41):
you know. Yeah. Again,like right when we started recording,
I was like, I don't knowif we can do this. There is
an asshole on the corner throwing fireworksin the air under my window. So
you know, but that's like aneveryday normal occurrence, and people, oh,
a gunshot's constant. You know,it's like normal for us, but
for their not so common. Yeah, it's just doesn't seem possible that this

(01:08:01):
person that was a neighbor that anybodyin the complex would be desensitized to it
or have it be normalized the waythat you or I would in our areas,
you know, So I just don'tunderstand why it wasn't called in.
After the first murder, Jennifer droveher red Niecean pickup truck to the mail

(01:08:24):
facility in Goalita that she had previouslyworked at. She arrived at the Goliita
facility just before nine pm, whichshe planned because she knew that this was
the time of the shift change.So during a shift change, there would
be double the amount of people thereand there would be an elevated level of

(01:08:46):
activity with all those workers coming andgoing, beginning and ending their shifts.
She pulled up outside the two hundredthousand square foot building where eighty people were
working inside, and waited for heropportunity to enter. I mean, this

(01:09:06):
building, it's worth pointing out,is four and a half football fields,
large giant. Since Jennifer no longerworked at the facility, she wasn't allowed
any access to the entrance gate ofthe large parking lot in front of the
building. In order to get throughthe security gate, she closely tailgated another

(01:09:30):
car that was already passing through theopening gates. Once she was inside the
gate, she parked her truck,got out, and immediately began targeting people
in the parking lot. Jennifer firstwalked right up to thirty seven year old

(01:09:55):
Ze Fairchild and shot her in thehead, killing her instantly. Twenty eight
year old Malika Higgins saw Ze getshot and took off running, but she
was just too close to Jennifer andcouldn't get a safe distance, so Jennifer
shot her in the head. Atthe time of her death, Malika had

(01:10:16):
been back from maternity leave for lessthan a month. It's terrible awful.
Jennifer targeted forty two year old NicolaGrant next, and again fired a shot
at her head. When people walkingthrough the parking lot heard several gunshots and

(01:10:38):
realized what was happening, they beganto just run across the street to the
fire station to request help and safelyshelter from the shooter. Even though the
mail sorting machines were very loud bythis point, people inside the building could
even hear the shots and wonder whatwas going on. Many of them went

(01:11:01):
to the nearest window and looked outto see what was happening. Several of
these people reported that she saw thepeople looking out the windows and she smiled
at them. She's just deranged atthis point. She's just not in touch

(01:11:21):
with reality. Yeah. By thistime, nine on one calls were pouring
in from people both inside and outsidethe building. Jennifer encountered an employee just
outside the building and approached him withher gun raised, then forced him to
let her in using his ID badgefor the door locks. And she actually

(01:11:45):
let this particular employee go unharmed.He's a lucky man. In the entrance
lobby, she saw forty four yearold supervisor named Charlotte Colton at the office.
Although Charlotte had not been her specificsupervisor, she walked right up to
her and shot the mother of threein the head at point blank range.

(01:12:12):
A brave co worker rushed to Charlotteand dragged her into a room, trying
to keep her alive. And therewas one of the co workers that said
Charlotte was just one of the sweetest, most beautiful women. And there was
a lot of people that were reallyupset about Charlotte. So this person jumping
in to help her was clearly justloved Charlotte so much and want to do

(01:12:36):
anything that they could to save her. Yeah. She was mentioned time and
again that like the tragedy of losingCharlotte. Yeah. Sadly, Charlotte would
later die of her wounds at SantaBarbara Cottage Hospital. Jennifer continued walking down
the main aisle, muttering to herself, holding the gun in her hand.

(01:13:00):
She came around a corner and sawa former coworker who recognized her and said,
quote, Jen, what are youdoing? Jen? You don't have
to do this. But Jennifer didn'trespond, and instead she took aim and
pulled the trigger, but the gunactually didn't fire. She reached into her

(01:13:23):
pocket, grabbed another magazine clip andreloaded the gun, but in those few
moments grambling to reload, her intendedvictim was able to run to safety.
Jennifer continued on her path, headingtowards her old workstation, where she saw

(01:13:45):
forty two year old Guadalupe Schwartz tryingto escape. She shot Guadaloupe four times
and she died at the scene.Next, Jennifer sought out fifty seven year
old Dexter Shannon, who had beenthe one to complain to a supervisor about

(01:14:05):
Jennifer. In two thousand and one, an eye witness was about four feet
away from Jennifer when she spotted Dexterand began to approach him. The witness
says Jennifer was so fixated on Dexterthat she never even acknowledged their presence or

(01:14:27):
looked at them. Dexter was sittingat his desk with headphones on, so
between the machine noises and his headphones, he hadn't heard any of the shots,
and he was just completely unaware ofthis devastation that was unfolding around him.
He was also unaware that Jennifer wasjust slowly walking towards him with a

(01:14:54):
gun. He had no idea anythingout of the ordinary going on when Jennifer
suddenly pulled her gun up and shothim in the head at point blank range.
When Dexter fell to the ground,she stood over him and shot him

(01:15:14):
again in the head. After sheknew Dexter was dead, Jennifer put the
gun to her own head and pulledthe trigger and shot herself. Police were
at a local fast food restaurant aboutto fill their cups at the fountain when
the call came in and they hurriedto the postal facility. One cop describes

(01:15:41):
having two cell phones to his earwhile he drove the cruiser with his knee
because in this really small town,this kind of violence just doesn't happen,
and he knew that it was goingto be very bad. As the officers
pulled up, panicked employees were fanticallyfleeing the building on foot. When they

(01:16:02):
asked employees for a description of whothey should be looking for, they received
a ton of conflicting information. Somepeople said it was a woman and some
said it was a man. Somesaid the shooter was wearing jeans. Others
said to look for a red shirt, while some people said the shooter was

(01:16:24):
wearing a blue shirt. Definitely herpoint of shaving her head to be not
recognizable work. There was only oneperson that mentioned knowing who she was,
and it was that one coworker.Everybody else had no clue. They just
thought this was a person, likea random shooting. Yeah. The only
person that put it together was aperson that was face to face with her,

(01:16:45):
saying, Jen, don't do this. You know. Everybody else just
really didn't see any distinct features.They decided to wait for the SWAT team
to arrive before entering the building becausethey had found so many people outside the
building who were either dead or woundedthat they really just didn't know how dangerous

(01:17:10):
it could be inside. When firstresponders finally were able to enter the building,
they were listening for the sounds ofshots so that they could find the
shooter and head towards the noise,but they couldn't hear anything. Jennifer was

(01:17:30):
already dead, but they didn't knowthis, so they were just wandering aimlessly
around the building with the sounds ofthe machines and the screaming people fleeing,
just adding to this tension. Policefinally were able to clear the scene,
and when they found Jennifer's body,she was lying on the ground with the

(01:17:53):
guns still in her hand and herfinger still gripping the trigger. Hours after
the shooting, Beverly Graham's boyfriend EddieBloomfield, found her at the bottom of
the stairs in her condo and calledthe police. Pulled out, hair was

(01:18:15):
scattered around the apartment, and thehome was described as being in disarray.
I imagine, like just how youknow it's got to be like they said,
the scenes in disarray, but findingclumps of hair scattered around really tells
you how brutal and violent this attackwas and the fight that went on.

(01:18:41):
That's the detail that stuck. Youknow, there was definitely a struggle and
possibly that she stuck around and kindof messed with her things afterwards. You
know. Shell casings found at thescene of Beverly Graham's murder matched those from
Jennifer's gun recovered at the USPS scene. There is still dispute over whether Jennifer's

(01:19:09):
victims were carefully selected or shot atrandom. Jennifer often viewed racist vitriol of
people, and there is a theorythat this attack was possibly racially motivated,
since six out of the seven victimswho died were not white. Her home

(01:19:31):
in New Mexico was searched and herwritings were seized that gave some insight to
her mental state at the time.She had over a hundred pages he had
written, listing every single time shefelt that someone had slighted her or mistreated
her, which detailed who did itand how they had harmed her. When

(01:19:56):
police searched her property, they couldtell that she was doing white a bit
of target practice in the backyard.Jennifer's brother expressed that when he heard his
sister was the shooter in the attack. He was quote pretty much in shock.
The cousin that lived in Mounnecito saidthat at the time of the shooting,

(01:20:19):
she hadn't heard from Jennifer in overa year. A spokesperson for the
USPS said, quote, there's noevidence she was mad at her boss.
Could it have been a personal relationshipor that she didn't like some of her
coworkers. You don't know. Fromher own words, it is easy to

(01:20:43):
conclude that although her mental health issueswere undiagnosed, she was extremely paranoid,
hearing voices, experiencing delusions, andhad become really obsessed with retaliating against the
Goalita USPS facility. On the oneyear anniversary of the shooting, six olive

(01:21:04):
trees were planted, and there's aplaque at the Galita Post office in memory
of the victims killed there. Inseveral articles covering this case, it's mentioned
that due to lawsuits related to patients'rights, it's very hard to get someone
into a mental health facility, evenif it is clear that they really need

(01:21:29):
the mental health treatment. Because ofa case that we actually covered out of
New York, that of Andrew Goldstein, who'd been in and out of mental
health facilities for schizophrenia, but hestill pushed a woman named Kendra Webdale in
front of a subway car. Newlaws were drafted in nineteen ninety nine making

(01:21:50):
it somewhat easier to get a psychevaluationor some sort of hold for the person's
safety, and the law is calledKendra's Law. Now forty two states have
some variation of Kendra's Law, butNew Mexico is one that actually does not

(01:22:13):
have it. What are the odds? Right? Yeah, And clearly it's
just such a contributing factor to herslipping through the cracks and being on the
radar of every community member and policeofficer and first responder, yet still not
getting the mental healthcare that she needed, in addition to being in New Mexico

(01:22:35):
where she could actually get a gundespite her mental health history. It is
literally the wild West. Yes,like a literal statement of being. It's
actually the Wild West. And don'tget me wrong, I love New Mexico.

(01:22:57):
It's just one of the most beautifulplaces. My family is from there,
I visited there frequently. I lovea lot of things about New Mexico,
but I just can't help, butdisagree with their handling of gun issues
and mental health. This is justso unbelievable to me that this woman was

(01:23:18):
able to slip through the cracks andthe system failed her. And even though
she denied treatment, and I thinkthere's some responsibility that she has to bear
for that, it still just seemslike there could have been more done for
her. And they failed her,you know, yes, And not only

(01:23:42):
did they fail her, but byextension these victims, it just could have
been avoided. These people just didnot have to be murdered if she was
able to get some sort of helpand treatment and get her mental health challenges
just under control. It really justdoesn't seem like this would have happened.

(01:24:06):
If she would have been well andtaken care of and treated and be able
to live a healthy life, shewould have let go of this resentment against
the USPS. Until the laws onconservatorship can change, there is nothing that
is going to happen, but wewill just see these people dying in the

(01:24:29):
street of their disorders that are justcompletely by the wayside. There's no money
in treatment. It's just really devastating. I see this all the time.
I have a family member who currentlylives in attendant and overpass. There's a
lot. This really really hits mehard, and it's just there's so many
things that have happened that I haveto change in order for any real change

(01:24:54):
to be made to help people.They make it impossible to help them.
Absolutely. There's so many people outthere that make this argument that's just like,
well, there's so many options forthem to get help, and there's
so many services that we the taxpayerspay for, blah blah blah, and
these people clearly don't know how difficultit is to actually access services, how

(01:25:16):
difficult it is to get help,how difficult it is to get better and
get treatments and get medication and justget the mental healthcare that you need.
You know, how many of thesepeople someone is looking for them on the
other side of the country. They'relooking for her and they just can't find

(01:25:36):
her because she's gotten lost in thestreets, she's got lost in the game,
you know, and she's living somewhereshe's probably in a really dangerous situation.
She can't treat herself, she can'ttake care of herself, and somebody,
you know, there's family members outthere all the time trying to find
them and they get lost in likethe rehab shuffle or whatever it is.
You know, they just don't seethe right person, and it's just devastating.

(01:26:02):
And until you know, things changeand laws change, and you know,
it's not a housing crisis, it'sa mental illness and addiction crisis.
And I know that I'm getting verylike political, but it's just these people
are dying and suffering and we aresupposed to be helping them, and it's

(01:26:27):
just there's no help to be seen. No one's coming to save them.
You know. It's just devastating.And so often you see a case like
this, when you see that mentalhealth is a factor, it seems like
mental health is not the issue.It's us and our system failing people who
struggle with their mental health. That'sthe real problem, you know what I

(01:26:48):
mean, Which is why we're alwayslike, look out for your neighbor,
look out for those around you.If you see concerning things, talk to
that person, maybe help them getresources. It's why I put links to
mental health resources in our show notes. There are things out there that can

(01:27:09):
help people. There are services,there are companies that can assist, there's
options to get better. But thesethings are not easy to access, and
mental health is not easy to recoverfrom, and so it's just really really
tragic when you see not only isit a factor in affecting one person's quality

(01:27:34):
of life, someone that could easilyyou know, she's very smart, she's
very capable, she's a hard worker. She could live a very healthy,
normal, productive, really life thatmakes her happy if she got some treatment.
But on top of that, shedidn't have to do something violent.

(01:27:57):
You know, there's not a directlink of mental health equals violence. It's
us failing people, our society,our government failing people that struggle with their
mental health that leads to not beingable to live a healthy life and being
like spiraling down into violent actions.It's not mental health alone, you know.

(01:28:24):
Yeah, And you know it's likewe're not going to carry you along,
like we're gonna help you get We'regonna you know what I mean,
Like we're gonna get you your helpand then you're going to follow your treatment
plan. You're probably you know,we might have some hiccups here and there,
but we'll deal with it when weget there. But you know,
there's also once you get to thepoint where it's like Okay, I'm doing

(01:28:45):
better, I can get the job, I can function now. God helps
those who helps themselves, right,And you have to also be willing to
put that foot forward to you know, the behaviors and then things that you
know are detrimental you've got to beable to stop. But first you have
to get clear headed enough to gettreatment to find out, you know,
Okay, maybe I should see atherapist, maybe I should take some medication.

(01:29:06):
You know, there's a lot ofstuff that goes with it, and
it's not something that can be solvedovernight. And like, yes, us
talking about it. Oh, we'rechanging so many things. But it's just
I think we all get confused andsometimes it's nice to try to have a
conversation where you work yourself, workthrough it a little bit, maybe have
a little understanding on the other side. It's just there's multiple factors here,

(01:29:27):
and you're right, it's just wecan't like involuntarily, you know, just
intervention on someone that has mental healthstruggles and then just fix them overnight.
Yeah, now that happened that way. Even if you want to do it
that way, it's not going towork. And it's clear Jennifer did refuse
treatment. But if we just hadsome more consistency with the system following up

(01:29:50):
with her, with first responders,getting her into the right hands of the
right mental health facilities, and maybethat message would have sunk in after a
few times, she would have maybebeen open to some help. Yep,
we just don't know. But itis really unnecessary for someone to be one

(01:30:15):
just going through this in the firstplace alone untreated, and two for it
to escalate to the point where someonebecomes violent because our system doesn't provide the
resources, the treatments, and ourpolice just don't follow up with them and
let her go with a verbal warning, don't try and get her into a

(01:30:39):
facility. I mean, we reallyneed to be better on the whole us
as regular citizens, you know,all of our government services need to be
better at prioritizing mental health so thiskind of thing doesn't spiral into someone feeling
like violences their only option because itdoesn't start there. This is not where

(01:31:01):
it was in the year two thousand. In the year two thousand and six,
she had escalated to this point,but it didn't start like that.
There's plenty of opportunity in those sixyears for something to have clicked with her
and for her to recover and getthe right talk, therapy, psychiatry,

(01:31:23):
medication, combination of everything to getwell, and that didn't happen, and
it cost seven lives. You know. So that's the story of Jennifer San
Marco. You know, I justrealized. I remember somebody had posted in

(01:31:43):
the Facebook group telling us that Idon't even I didn't even realize this until
just now. We do a lotof New Mexico stories because they had posted
in there too. They were like, I think it's cool you guys did
New Mexico, and you know,I was like, oh, yeah,
we did. And then just nowI'm like, this is New Mexico we're
talking about again. Somehow it comesin. Yeah, it does keep coming

(01:32:04):
up, and every time I'm allhappy because then I'm the person that I
look at the maps because I'm like, how close is this to my family's
hometown, you know, like Ido the same thing. So yeah,
I think that's it for Jennifer SanMarco, our second PE four Going Postal

(01:32:27):
case, and we'll be back nexttime with a third Going Postal story for
you. But before we get outof here, just a reminder that we've
got all of our social media links. You can follow us at Murder Dictionary
Podcast pretty much everywhere. They're linkedin the show notes. If you want
to do some more reading and lookinto this case a little bit more,

(01:32:50):
those links are in our show notes. Like I mentioned, we've got the
links for wellness and mental health inour show notes every single week. If
there's anything that you or loved oneis struggling with, hopefully there's a resource
in there for you. And ifyou have a suggestion of an additional link

(01:33:11):
to add, I'm always open tothat as well. And we've got the
link to our thread lists for merchlike shirts and phonecases, topebags, mugs,
etc. And lastly, before weget out of here, if you
want to join our patreon, getad free episodes, bonus episodes and all

(01:33:33):
the perks, then check out patreondot com slash Murder Dictionary Podcast, which
is linked in the show notes.And we want to thank Chris, Eileen
and Jane who joined our patreon thisweek. Thank you, We love you
so we appreciate you guys, Thankyou so much. We hope you have

(01:33:55):
a wonderful week and we will seeyou next time for another going postal case.
Sounds good. All right, havea good one, see you bye.

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