Railroad Killers: Angel Maturino Resendiz

Episode Transcript
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(00:38):
Hello and welcome to Murder Dictionary Podcast. I'm Brianna, and that is Courtney.
Hello, Hello, and welcome.Before we get into new yeah,
happy new year everyone. So beforewe get into what case we're going to
talk about tonight, we just wantto remind you that there are links to

(01:00):
the resources that we use to researcheach episode in the show notes every week
if you want to read a littlebit more. There's also links to resources
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(01:22):
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(01:46):
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the show description. So before weget into a new letter in a new

(02:07):
case for tonight, I just wantedto say thank you to the new people
on our Patreon who are Casey,Maddie, Liz Kristen and Angela. Thank
you, so thank you guys.We appreciate you being on our Patreon.
And again, if you wanted tojoin and get some bonus episodes and extra

(02:30):
content, that is patreon dot comslash Murder Dictionary podcast and the link is
in the show notes. So lasttime we did letter Q when we were
talking about quarantine murders and we're goingto move on to letter R and we're
talking about railroad killers now and wewould like to give a little shout out

(02:53):
to listeners Shirley for railroad and thisone home as to why railroad was such
a wonderful choice. And then itjust became so clear. It was like,
how did we not what? Okay? Of course railroad sounds great,
okay, and then there's just sucha wealth of things to choose from when

(03:14):
you get to the railroad. Itwas bizarre. Yeah, it's funny once
someone mentions something, then it becomesabundantly clear, like, oh, why
didn't we think of that? Itmakes so much sense? You know,
yes, I agree, So thankyou so much for sending in suggestions.
If you have suggestions for letters andwhat we should cover, then just let
us know because we're always open tonew subjects and things that we haven't thought

(03:38):
of. So we're going to starta new letter in our alphabet, letter
R for railroad, like I said, and we're going to be talking about
someone that went by a bunch ofdifferent names and aliases, and you'll find
information under a few different variations ofhis name. But his name that we're

(04:00):
going to use is on hell LeoncioReyes Rescindes. He also went by Raphael.
He also did different spellings of hisname, but that's his actual legal
birth name, right. Yes,that's as easy as you could break it
down. But there's all sorts ofvariations of most of these stories that we

(04:24):
cover. There's a lot, especiallywhen you are traveling constantly on the road,
as we'll say, you have alot of aliases. That's part of
the key of how you stay aboveor stay ahead of everybody. And I
got to say, this guy hasmore aliases than I think anybody that I've
really seen. And it's really alsoit's just you know, mother's maiden name,

(04:46):
married name, father's name, cousinsnames, uncle's names. He just
kind of morphs them all together,depending, so it caused a lot of
confusion. Yeah, I mean,it's definitely not unheard of for people to
use different names, especially to evadethe law when they're on the run or
when they know they've committed a crime. But this guy definitely takes it to

(05:08):
the next level. It's more thanI've ever seen. Yes, so An
Hell was born on August first,nineteen sixty in Isucar de Matamoros in Pueblo,
Mexico. His mother, Virginia deMaturino, and his father, Juan
Reyes, a farmer, never married. By all accounts, they had a

(05:32):
pretty strained relationship, and his fatherwas physically abusive towards his mother. He
has full siblings, about six halfsiblings, but only one sister named Manuela
that he was particularly close with.Very hard to find good information on his

(05:56):
family and upbringing that wasn't just likehorrifically tragic, and then no names,
just not happening with names. There'sdefinitely a big lack of information here,
and both of us looked. Ipoked around, and you really couldn't find
anything. It just basically comes downto him having a big family and also

(06:17):
having an abusive father. So forme, that just speaks of a lot
of neglect and maybe seeing a lotof violence around him, you know,
and just having a bunch of kidsrunning around and we don't really know their
names, but there was a tonof full and half siblings that were around,
and various fathers and at least onefather who was abusive. So I

(06:41):
can't even imagine what all these kidssaw in terms of abuse or just lack
of supervision, because you know,once the father leaves, someone has to
make a living. I don't know, you know, how his mother supported
these children. So it's just Ican only assume that there was a lot
of trauma from his childhood. Yeah. Onhell was physically a very small child

(07:09):
and he remained a very small staturefor pretty much his entire life, which
was brought up often by those aroundhim throughout his life, and of course
later on it was dwelled on bythe media. At six years old,
when his mother married a man inthe military named Luis Maturino, on Hell

(07:30):
went to live with his mother's brotherfor six years. And this is just
strange to begin with. Again,this is the reason why it seems like
he was neglected, kind of passedaround and not really able to be cared
for by his parents in the homethat he was born into. Yes,

(07:51):
I agree. It seems like hewasn't really a go along with the planned
kid, and maybe it was difficultand kind of getting into trouble. So
you know, we're going to sendhim to his uncle, Rafael, see
what Rafael can do. Right,Even though we don't have a lot of
concrete information, there's a lot thatyou can infer from the small tidbits that

(08:13):
we do have. I agree.It's reported that he was actually raped by
the uncle and also assaulted by aknown pedophile who lived in the neighborhood.
And this has just talked about totallycasually and in the open, like everybody
knows this. By the way,right, this isn't from police reports.

(08:35):
This is from just firsthand accounts ofpeople saying, oh, yeah, we
knew that was just our community pedophile. Yeah, very nonchalant, like it
was just a known and accepted thing. Later, when his mother is interviewed
by authorities, she admits that herson spent his childhood not in her care,

(08:58):
but with a family that quote lackedproper guidance and homosexuals and Puebla may
have sexually abused him. And ofcourse when you hear something like this and
what especially when it comes up intrue crime, you have to point out
homosexuality is not the same as pedophilia. It is definitely a misconception that she

(09:24):
bought into. Yeah, but Ialso think that this is a mother describing
the abuse that she basically allowed herson to have. Like she doesn't understand,
she doesn't and she can't explain thisin a way that makes sense other
than like at the time, especiallyhomosexuality is wrong. So you're going to

(09:45):
equate it all together, right,because that's what they believe a right time
in this area, in the culture. So like we know that, you
know, it's not the same thing, but this is the only way she
can express herself. These are herwords, even though we know there's a
clear distinction between homosexuality and pedophilia.That's to her knowledge and the time period,

(10:07):
and like you said, the culture, that's what she believed, and
so that's how she stated it.So we're just repeating what she said.
This is also after the fact,and now you know everybody knows that you
sent him to live with this knownright, like this situation right it You
know, she probably has a lotgoing on her own head as well.

(10:28):
Like we normally we're not going todefend these people, you know what I
mean, But this one you canunderstand. You can read between the lines
here. At only eleven years old, after of course suffering through abandonment and
physical abuse and sexual abuse on howdecided to run away. That's so young,

(10:52):
It is really young. Just thinkof any eleven year old, you
know, like can they boil wateron the stove? You know what can
they do independently? That's the endof fifth grade going into sixth grade?
You know, right? Crazy.He lived on the street at only eleven
years old, and he began seekingescape in substances, and he was often

(11:16):
sniffing glue to get a very cheaphigh. Of course, he didn't have
money. He's living on the street. He doesn't have resources or any living
skill sets, so I mean that'sjust kind of what he resorted to.
He had no guidance and no goodinfluences, so he definitely went through some

(11:37):
tough times while he was on thestreet. In nineteen seventy six, at
age sixteen, he was caught tryingto cross the US border into Brownsville,
Texas, and he was deported twomonths later. And this was the first
of many times that on Hell wouldtry to flee Mexico and get caught then

(12:03):
deported back to Mexico. It wasjust a pattern that would continue through the
rest of his life. It seemedlike he had all the time in the
world. He doesn't have a job, he's eleven years old, you know,
it's like, yeah, sure,let's see if I can get there.
Take the risk. Maybe he'll geta reward. If not, he

(12:24):
gets a free ride home. Likewhat's you know, what's the risk,
Sure, go for it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean the first time
he was caught was sixteen. You'vegot to assume he had been doing this
for a little while before he wasactually found and sent back. So,
I mean, he was out onthe street for many years before the deportation

(12:46):
happened. So he's definitely traveling,going back and forth, crossing the border
and just trying to make ends meetI assume, you know, just trying
to get as a teenager, youknow. Yeah, So a month after
the first time this happened, hewas then found in Sterling Heights, Michigan.

(13:11):
Then shortly after he was found againin McAllen, Texas. During this
time, when he was on thestreet and trying to find a way to
get by, he developed a nomadiclifestyle that allowed him to be just constantly
on the move. In order forhim to move across the state and international

(13:35):
borders on how used the tactic ofstowing away on freight trains that took him
very long distances very quickly without anypossibility of detection. So the railroads really
allowed him easier access than a caror going on footwood. He rarely stayed

(13:58):
in one place for long. Ifhe did, he'd always get caught for
a crime and then deported, sohe'd attempt to ride the rails back across
the border again within a couple monthsof being caught. It's really interesting that
he's a terrible criminal. He isa stupid criminal. He belongs on the

(14:20):
show, Like I mean, hefucks up everything all the time. And
so he's caught, you know,like over twenty it's close to or over
twenty times. It's insanity and hejust gets sent back or whatever, and
it's no big deal. And themiles he's able to cover by using like

(14:41):
you said, railroads instead of carsis impressive. Yeah, he's all over
the place. But you're right,he's always caught. I mean, he's
definitely not a good criminal. Imean good in quotes. You know,
he's not successful at having a criminalcareer because he's just constantly getting caught for

(15:03):
just these petty crimes and then theylook into him and he's deported, you
know, so over and over again. It's happening. But he's able to
be all over the US because ofthe railroads. He's got unlimited access to
just all different states. Yep.In nineteen seventy nine, he was given

(15:26):
a twenty year prison sentence in Miami, Florida for auto theft and assault,
but he was paroled and released backto Mexico only six years later in nineteen
eighty five. So by that pointhe's only in his early twenties. Yeah,

(15:50):
he's nineteen. It's crazy, Imean, and he has spent the
last decade alone on the streets,right, I mean, school of hard
knocks, and like you know,he can read people. He's a lifelong
criminal at this point and he's nineteen. Like he's again, he's a terrible

(16:11):
criminal. It's like you think maybehe's gonna get better now, right,
No? Maybe, No, that'snot how this works. Somehow. It's
not like the movies, I guessis what I'm saying. Well, with
any job you have, hopefully youget better at it. But that never
happened for him. He really justfailed every time. You know, you

(16:33):
know what job I would like themto be good at when they get there?
Doctor and surgeon? Can they begood when they get there? Can
we not practice like doctor? Depth? That podcast was crazy. It was
like, wait, you're you're learningby doing, Get the hell out of
here. He's not learning by doing, though. You would think at some
point he's going things are going sohorribly for him that he would just be

(16:56):
like, well maybe I should becomesomething else, you know, yes,
But then it seems like he justsniffs some glue, passes out, wakes
up, and goes, I'm hungry. I'm gonna go beg for food,
and then I'll get on a train. I'll go to another state where I've
been before. I'll go back tothat rail yard and I'll see my homie
him on the rails, and youknow, we'll get something to eat.

(17:18):
I just don't think he thinks thatfar out. Again, he's been doing
drugs since he was like nineteen eleven, so his brain, I mean,
we're not you know, we're notdealing with one hundred percent here. Yeah.
I think he just doesn't see anyother options. You know. This
is just what he was kind ofborn into and then sent around and then

(17:41):
was on the street, and nowit's like, well, now he's just
trying to survive. It's really aboutsurvival. Throughout the nineteen eighties and nineteen
nineties on, Hell was consistently inand out of American prisons for assaults,
auto theft, gun possession, andburglaries. In New Mexico. He was

(18:04):
sentenced to New Mexico again. Iknow, we do so many New Mexico
cases now that that one listener commentedto one time, I'll never forget that
New Mexico. He was sentenced toeighteen months for a burglary conviction, but
again, he paroled in April ofnineteen ninety three. So every time that

(18:29):
he would finish his sentence and bedeported to Mexico, he would just return
to the US and commit another crimeand then begin the process over again.
It's just an endless cycle. Heserved eleven years in prisons and was deported
a total of seventeen times with overthirty aliases, so many it's yeah,

(18:56):
it's just a lot. And youknow, for me year, it's important
to point out that this is uncommon. I feel like there's a lot going
on right now where people are clearlyvery xenophobic and have prejudices. This is
not a typical case. This isnot a typical behavior of someone trying to

(19:18):
get into the US. You know, this is definitely an outlier. He's
a criminal, he's a serial killer. I mean, this is not something
that happens every single day where there'shundreds of thousands of people pouring into the
country after they've just been reported andthey just served a sentence for twenty only
eight years out of their twenty,but they're back and then this this is

(19:40):
not something that happens all the time. And then it's also this person himself
on hell is kind of a greatshape shifter where he can have multiple lives
in a way, but also likebe on the street at eleven, He's
very different than just you know,some random person that's trying to immigrate,
you know, or coming over theborder their kid, you know, This
is not the same, right,It's completely different. Yeah, this is

(20:03):
just shouldn't be used as an example. You know. This is definitely the
outlier. This is the bad apple, you know, so it shouldn't be
taken as context for how other peoplecome to the US. For sure.
Yes, I don't know. Itwas just important for me to say that
because that's a lot that he justkeeps coming back. He's always in prison,

(20:26):
and he's always committing these crimes andgiving different names. But this isn't
the normal immigrant story, you know. No, in the middle of all
this on how actually married a womanin Mexico named Julieta Dominguez Reyes, with
whom he had a daughter named Lyria. She worked as a lab analyst at

(20:52):
the public health clinic in their townof Rodeo, Mexico. And it seems
like, again these are things thatwe don't have a whole bunch of details.
But I don't know how someone likeher ended up with someone like him.
It seems like she's got a goodjob, she's a stable person,

(21:14):
she wants, she's a family person. But he's all over the place,
he's never in their hometown. Imean, I don't know what she was
getting out of this relationship. Youknow, well, I think he's duplicitous.
We know that he can be morethan one person at the same time,
and he was able to kind oflike we see in other cases,

(21:38):
you know, carry on like thisso called normal life, like the Alibi
life, and then have the wildand crazy, you know, psycho murderer
life on the side. And becauseit's in a different country, normally we
joke about how you can go tothe next county, but this is like
another country. But when you're onthe trains, it's you know, it's
all right there. So I thinkthat he was, you know, a

(21:59):
traveling salesman. Whatever the hell hehad to tell her. He trial he
did this. He would send moneyback. Hey, as long as you're
paying for a shit, right andyou're not beating her up when you come
home for like the two months thethree months that you need to lay low
because the heats on in the US. You know, he probably just didn't
tell her a lot, sending hermoney, sending her jewelry. She's just
like, hey, it's cool.I just see him once little while.

(22:22):
I got my daughter, I gota good job. You know, Yeah,
I guess it just well, shealso, I would imagine, has
seen some wild shit with him andjust kind of goes, you know,
oh my god, that was acrazy evening, Like who the hell knows.
I mean, since he was eleven, he's been on drugs off and
on. Right, do not thinkhe was totally normal all the time.

(22:45):
But also he goes out of townfor long periods of time, so I'm
not trapped with the sasshole constantly,so you can kind of work some shit
out. And again he's sending money, he's taking care of the kid in
that regard. The hell, Imean, you're going to tell us right
now, what does he do Briannawhile he's in Mexico. When he's not

(23:07):
in the US, he lived anormal life basically. You know, he
worked as an English teacher at thelocal convent school and it was directly across
the street from the police station.They had ample opportunity to catch him,
right, but he did kind ofpass. You're right, I mean,
there is this sense that he wasliving the ultimate double life. It's confusing

(23:30):
to me that he could keep upa double life so well that she would
marry him and have a kid withhim, and then he would still go
on the road, and you're right, you know, he did have the
kind of excuse of being at workbasically like oh, I've got to travel
to go make money, and he'dbe sending money. But it just part

(23:52):
of me wants to think that,like, how could she not know?
How could she just not see theother side of him. She knew something
was up, yeah, but didn'tknow he was a mass you know,
serial killer, but something was up, right. She just saw what we've
seen up to this point, likemaybe a little bit of petty crime.

(24:12):
And he probably wouldn't even tell herwhen he got arrested that many times.
It was probably just like, oh, I was busy working, I couldn't
call for a month totally. Sohe actually unsuccessfully ran for public office in
the town in nineteen ninety three,And I'm just so confused as to how

(24:33):
the locals didn't know that he wasa criminal or at least see that it
was kind of strange that he wasquote unquote traveling so much and sniffing glue
and stuff like that, Like youwould think there would be signs of this
this instability that would make it kindof ridiculous for him to run for public

(24:56):
office. Oh, yeah, andhe would say that he was, you
know, a migrant farm worker whenhe wasn't teaching English at the convent school.
Which that's a great story, youknow, migrant farm I mean,
shit, it could be blueberries todayand strawberries tomorrow. I gotta be an
inventor this week in Georgia next week. You know, it's like huh.
So. Then there's also the factof I guess and I don't know this

(25:21):
for sure, but I imagine maybein Mexico they don't run background checks on
political candidates, and if they do, maybe they don't run international like an
inner Polly maybe. And I meanthis is crazy. But in the time
period he had not like we're talkingabout twenty twenty one, we're talking about,
you know, the early nineties,a background check probably consisted of like

(25:47):
looking up something in a filing cabinet, you know, yes, yeah,
in Mexico City, it takes threeweeks to call it. Yeah, totally.
It's like you know, long distance, like a tin can and a
string. I mean, like,what the hell you know? Um.
So the other thing is I thinkhe may have had a pretty clean record
in Mexico. Yeah. I thinkhe did a lot of his dirt in
the US and ran back to Mexicobecause he knew that they wouldn't send him

(26:10):
back if he did get caught.That makes sense. Yeah, that's that's
all I can. You know whatever, I definitely be fucking office in the
town. It's just another thing thatcompletely baffles me. Like he's married a
tild again running for office just seemsreally strange that people were so duped by
him. He didn't win, it'snot like he served in public office,

(26:33):
but to not be laughed out ofthe town, you know, you would
think that people would take kind ofone look at this guy and be like,
hey, something's not right. Ifeverything we know to be true is
is true, like his terrible traumaticupbringing and drug use and criminal history,
you would think it would be prettyapparent very quickly. So it's just very

(26:59):
strange to me that he's got thisfamily life and a wife and he's running
for office while he's got this otherlife. Yep. But again, that
just kind of is a testament tothe way that you said that he's a
shape shifter. I think that's agreat description since on how survived primarily by

(27:23):
burglary while traveling, he had ahabit of wandering through neighborhoods, looking into
windows and basically just trying to seewhat opportunities he could take in the moment.
Although it started with burglaries and itdefinitely initially was a means to make
a living, eventually it escalated toviolence. He claims that he entered homes

(27:51):
which quote seemed to radiate evil.He recalls breaking into many homes while the
victims were asleep inside and he didn'tdo anything to them. It sounds very
much like the creepy crawlers with theManson family, just kind of seeing how
quiet and creepy they could be wanderingaround inside the houses, like well,

(28:15):
if I took something, could Iget away with it? Or what can
I get away with without being detected. The first time On How took someone's
life was in nineteen eighty six,when he murdered an unidentified homeless woman and
her boyfriend in Brexer County, Texas. He said that he met them both

(28:40):
in a homeless shelter, then theywent on a motorcycle trip together, and
that they had brought a gun alongfor target practice. According to On,
how the woman had disrespected him,so he shot her with a thirty eight
caliber handgun and left her body inan abandoned farmhouse. Afterwards, he killed

(29:07):
her boyfriend because he claims the boyfriendwas involved in what he referred to as
black magic. Sure, all right, we'll buy it. Yeah, why
not. He then dumped his bodyin a creek between San Antonio and Uvalde,
Texas. And this is the firstthat we're seeing that there's some sort

(29:30):
of fear or distaste or whatever forI wouldn't call it the occult. I
don't know what you would call it. But he definitely has this kind of
aversion to anything that's not straight andnarrow Judeo Christian kind of religious values.
Right. Yeah, he's definitely notinto voodoo, you know, he's like,

(29:52):
he's not about it, into notinto like psychics and all that stuff.
It's Roman Catholicism or the highway.Right. So again and again we'll
see that he is constantly seeing orhearing or getting a sense that something is
evil or cursed or voodoo, blackmagic, all this stuff, and it

(30:15):
is for him used as a motivationto inflict violence on people. Only a
couple of years later, in nineteeneighty eight, at twenty eight years old,
he spent a little while living inSaint Louis, Missouri, where he
actually laid down some solid roots.He got a job working half days for

(30:37):
a temp agency, and he actuallyvoted in two elections under an alias.
But this was the most settled andstable that his life had ever been.
In nineteen ninety one, he leftSaint Louis and headed to Kentucky. While
there, he met thirty three yearold Michael White, who he believed was

(31:02):
gay. Blaming Michael's sexuality on howbeat him to death with a brick quote
because he was homosexual. After themurder, he left Michael's body in the
front yard of an abandoned house.It's so disturbing that he is seeking out

(31:25):
people and preying on them for reasonsthat he's just making up in his head.
You know, we have no ideawhat this person's sexuality actually was,
and then he's using it as areason to murder. You know, this
is a straight up hate crime.Well, I mean, if you ask
him, he may say it's revenge, you know. Yeah, It's just

(31:47):
it's so disturbing, you know,is that I don't think it's too far
to to draw that line that heis a jump to conclusions Matt, Right,
But yeah, to like draw thatline that I'm doing what was done
to me kind of thing, right, and then now I'm just so angry

(32:08):
I'm going to kill you. It'sthat simple, like, you know,
and just this is what you know, you did this to me. Now
I'm going to show it's just revenge. It's just in your mind, you
know, making sense of nonsense.Yeah, and it's again another instance of
people not being able to differentiate.And again, like we said, it's
cultural and the time period, butpeople think that homosexuality and pedophilia is the

(32:31):
same thing. Yeah, and clearlyhe believed that that was the case,
and so he's trying to avenge himselfand his own inner child for the damage
inflicted on him. But he's victimizingsomeone for their sexuality instead of seeking justice
against pedophiles, which is a completelydifferent thing. Yeah. Several years later,

(32:58):
in o'calla, Florida on March twentythird, nineteen ninety seven, on
How I Met and Murdered Another couple, Jesse Howell was beaten to death with
an air hose coupling and left besidethe railroad tracks. His sixteen year old
girlfriend Wendy von Huben was raped,strangled, and then suffocated with duct tape.

(33:25):
Once she was dead, he leftWendy's body in a shallow grave thirty
miles away in Weehope, Florida,where it remained unfound for a very long
time. It seems like he's noteven really doing a lot to cover up
these crimes or hide the bodies either, which is very striking. It just

(33:50):
stands out one is the most hiddenof any right. He just kills them
where they just drops you where youstand and just moves forward. Yeah,
most of them. He just hasno attempt at all to cover his tracks
or anything. Yeah. So Wendy'sgrieving family went on Ricky Lake and they

(34:15):
did various episodes of shows like Datelinebecause they were desperately trying to find out
what happened to their daughter. Theyreally tried to spread awareness. They wanted
to keep the tips flowing in,but really the detectives had no information to
go off of and no solid leads. In late July of nineteen eighty eight,

(34:38):
the police began investigating a series ofhang up calls to the house,
hoping that maybe these would produce somenew leads, but they did not.
In July nineteen ninety seven, inColton, California, an unidentified transient was

(34:59):
bludgeoned death with a piece of plywood. Although this case would actually remain unsolved
on hell is the prime suspect inthis murder? Colton's a train town,
oh is it? Like? Oh? Yeah, It's like if you're,
you know, driving towards Palm Springson your way out to Riverside, you're

(35:22):
going to drive through Colton and there'sjust train tracks as everywhere you go.
There's a little bridge that you gounder this for the trains to go by
and on it is painted Colton,Colton, we have trains, So honestly,
like, yeah, it tracks everythingabout this one, except that,
you know, his fingerprints weren't onthe plywood or whatever. He didn't confess

(35:43):
to this one, but everything saysthis has on Hill's signature on it,
and prime suspect is definitely another wayof saying the only suspect in this case.
Definitely, you know, I mean, it seems like he's the only
one that they're considering. But Ididn't know it was a train toown.
It makes the perfect sense that hewould end up there. Yep. In

(36:07):
Lexington, Kentucky. On August twentyninth, nineteen ninety seven, a twenty
one year old University of Kentucky studentnamed Christopher Meyer and his girlfriend Holly Dunn
were walking along the train tracks nearthe college on Hell was hiding behind an
electrical box when he jumped out toscare the couple and demand that they give

(36:31):
him money. I think this isalso why a lot of the people are
just dead where they stood, isbecause he's really good at you know,
like with the burglaries. He learnedto surveil and to watch people and like
hide and wait until they're not payingattention. So I think he surprises a
lot of people, like he jumpsout and surprises him, kills him,

(36:51):
and then takes the fuck off.Yeah, he catches people off guard.
Definitely opportunity, thank you sorry.And even though opportunity, even though it's
not a ton of premeditation in thesense of a husband planning to kill his
wife for over a year, thisis definitely someone that kind of stakes things
out as much as someone that's nomadiccan and looks for these kind of opportunities

(37:16):
and draws from previous experience to kindof repeat the same patterns that he has,
you know, like, oh,there's this couple, I'm gonna surprise
them. Let me just hide,you know, it works for me to
hide and then attack and then stealand take off. The other thing that
I had been thinking the whole timewas I don't know if you know this,

(37:37):
but railroad tracks don't move. Soif you are constantly riding the rails,
you're constantly going through the same smalltowns. You're going to the same
train stops, train yards, thesame park, you know, nearly grayhound
bus stations, the same neighborhoods,that same area, So you do get
a little bit familiar, and youwould know, for example, there's a

(37:59):
bet bathroom here that a lot ofpeople using the train they stopped there.
It's a good spot to hold peopleup, you know what I mean.
Stuff like that. You just kindof like Golden State Killer used to go
along the washes and like the canalsand the backyards where you can see in
because you're a higher it's like,you know, your predator learns how they
can find their prey. And hewas definitely paying attention and for his like

(38:23):
drugged out and messed up as heis, he's really good at being a
predator. Yeah, he's definitely atthis point, especially even if he keeps
getting caught in many ways. Bythe point that he's murdering people, he's
definitely good at preying on people.Like you said, I mean, yeah,

(38:44):
yeah, he wasn't very good atburglaries and constantly got caught at that,
but he's definitely developed these predatory instincts. So after he jumped out from
behind this electrical box to scare thecouple, he bound Christopher's hands and feet
and gagged him anhill dropped a fiftytwo pound rock onto Christopher to kill him.

(39:13):
Once Christopher was dead, he gaggedHolly with a T shirt and he
raped her all then hit her inthe head with another large rock, and
he just left her for dead.But thankfully, Holly survived this gruesome attack,
despite multiple facial fractures and of courseinjuries sustained during the sexual assault.

(39:38):
Just over a year later, eightyseven year old Leafy Mason was home alone
when someone entered through window and beather to death with an antique iron.
This pisses me the fuck off,man, Like, I just want to
beat him to death with an ironlike this, She's eighty seven. It's

(39:59):
like Betty, you know, likeyou leave her alone. She's a little
old lady. Damn it. Yeah, God, oh they all go after
these just delicate, defenseless, littleold grandmas, and like I understand,
but like it, fuck you pissme off. Yeah, he just is
looking for any victim. I mean, he's just you know, it doesn't
matter. He wants someone to prayon. And he's probably thinking, oh,

(40:22):
she's older, maybe she has moneyhidden under the mattress or something.
These are the kind of power her, right, These are the kind of
opportunities he's looking for. I hatehim. Her front door faced the Kansas
City Southern rail Line tracks, whichwere only fifty yards away. On December

(40:43):
seventeenth, nineteen ninety eight, onHell was only a short walk away from
the train tracks in the upper classHouston, Texas neighborhood of West University Place,
he spotted the home of thirty nineyear old doctor Claudia Benton, a
clinical geneticist at Baylor College. OnHell says that he was drawn to the

(41:06):
house because he could see her quoteethnic artwork through the curtainless windows. He
lurked around the perimeter of the houseuntil he found an unlocked door, and
he snuck in. Once he wasinside, he lurked around the house for
a bit before he ventured upstairs tofind Claudia. On heal, assaulted and

(41:32):
raped Claudia in her bedroom. Thenafterwards he used a kitchen knife to stab
her three times, but she wasstill alive. While on Hell was in
Claudia's home, he noticed a twofoot tall bronze statue, which he said

(41:52):
seemed demonic to him, so hestruck her nineteen times with it and bludgeoned
her her to death. On Hellthen took whatever money he could find in
her home, and he stole Claudia'sjeep Cherokee so he could get back on
the road quickly and go on therun. When the suv was later recovered,

(42:16):
police found fingerprints on the steering columnthat they determined were on Hell's,
but they really had no leads regardinghis whereabouts, even though they had his
identity and her husband. I can'tremember the exact details, but I think
it was something along the lines oflike taking the kid to a friend's house,

(42:39):
or you know you just oh,I'll be back. I got to
run some errands and I'll be backand that's when it happened. It's awesome.
It was like, yeah, hejust it was, you know,
one of those you know, I'llbe back later tonight, this afternoon.
It was something all on those lines. I really should have paid attention,
but it was one of those,you know, just like can happen like

(43:00):
that? You have no idea.That's so terrible, you know, it
always is. On May second,nineteen ninety nine, in Weimar, Texas,
forty six year old Reverend Norman J. Sernik aka Skip and his forty
seven year old wife Karen were asleepin the church parsonage, which is basically

(43:23):
a house on the church grounds.Yes, a hell had wandered off the
railroad tracks to the church where theSernis lived, and he broke into their
home. He bludgeoned Karen and Normanto death with a sledgehammer, and he
sexually assaulted Karen. Afterwards, hestole the couple's red Mazda and he fled

(43:52):
the area. When the car wasfound three weeks later in San Antonio,
Texas and examined by crime scene investigators, the forensic evidence collected matched the evidence
that was found in the killing ofClaudia Benton in Houston. Five months earlier,

(44:13):
on June second, US border patrolpicked up on How near Opasso.
Ion s did a full fingerprint andphoto ID check on him, but there
were no matches found in their system, so they deported him back to Mexico.
This is later called a glitch.Yeah, well, the computer glitch.

(44:37):
It's unbelievable that he just slipped throughtheir fingers. He was right there,
yep. It just is infuriating.Two days after the deportation, on
June fourth, on Hell crossed theborder again into Houston, Texas. After

(44:57):
on Hell got off the railroad train, he broke into an apartment of twenty
six year old school teacher named NoemiDominguez. On How murdered Noemi with a
pickaxe in her apartment. On thesame day as Noemi's murder, in Schulenburg,
Texas, seventy three year old JosephineConvica is murdered in her bed with

(45:23):
the same pickaxe that was used tokill Noemi. After the murder, he
left the pickaxe embedded in Josephine's head. He also left a newspaper article about
his crimes and a toy train whichthe police thought could be a calling card.

(45:46):
He's really just like out of teardow. And he also again just slipped
through their fingers, so he's probablyyeah, he's emboldened more than everving door.
He thinks he can get away withanything and everything, and thus far
he has when it comes to themurders. Even though he was constantly caught

(46:08):
for burglaries and assaults, definitely oncehe started murdering, nobody could catch him.
He probably felt invincible. Josephine's housewas not very far from Wimart,
Texas, where the Reverend Skip andhis wife Karen were also killed. After

(46:28):
the reports of multiple brutal murders,Texans were just extremely terrified that they could
be next, and many of thembegan arming themselves. Bernie Kostler, the
mayor of Wimar, Texas, tolda newspaper that the town was sold out
of pistols, especially if you livein your train tracks, right. People

(46:52):
are really starting to catch on.They know it's a pattern, they know
there's a predator out there, andthey're trying to take appropriate steps to arm
themselves and protect themselves. I imaginea lot of these people already had guns,
but it was definitely a good excuseto go get more. Well,
if you're into guns, which I'mnot a gun person, I don't know.

(47:13):
I mean, if you're into them, I've noticed if you have one,
one's good, but fifteen is better. It seems like these are also
like, for example, Reverend Skipand parishioners in Texas. I'm thinking they're
armed. But you know, Imean, I'm not saying it's a bad
thing. I'm just saying it's likenineties Texas. Yeah, there's a few

(47:37):
guns are out, but it's funnyor whoa, it's interesting funny. No,
I'm just kidding. Sorry, nothing'sfunny anymore. It's interesting that they
sold out after this. You know, once the reports start coming out,
it's like, Okay, well maybeI have my gun collection, but my

(47:58):
wife needs a gun for her purse, and my kid needs one, and
I'm going to get one for thetruck, and you know, like it's
just they started collecting a bunch moreand putting them everywhere because people were pretty
terrified by this point. Seven daysafter the most recent murders, Noam's nineteen
ninety three white Honda Civic was foundat the International Bridge at Del Rio,

(48:22):
Texas on June fifteenth, nineteen ninetynine, eleven days after on Hill committed
two murders. On one day,Ahill had traveled to Gorham, Illinois on
the train. He was lurking arounda mobile home park only a hundred yards
from the railroad track and hiding inthe trees, basically trying to case out

(48:45):
the neighborhood. On Hill had honedin on the home of George Morber Senior,
who was an eighty year old retiredprison worker and Army veteran. While
he was watching the house, Georgesuddenly came out of his home, drove

(49:05):
away in his car, and hewas heading out to get the morning newspaper.
Since on How saw George leave,he broke into the home and he
began snooping around, but he wasstartled when George was only gone a short
while and returned quicker than he hadexpected. You know, he didn't know

(49:30):
that he was just going to geta newspaper, so he thought he had
more time. When George entered thehome, on How tied him to a
recliner with a phone cord, thenshot him in the back of the head
with a shotgun. A few hourslater, George's daughter, Caroline Frederick arrived

(49:52):
at the house. On How usedthe shotgun to bludgeon her, and the
beating was so severe that the shotgunactually broke into two pieces during the attack.
She had survived the beating, soon Hew grabbed a tire iron and
beat her to death with it.Caroline Frederick's murder is specifically horrific, and

(50:17):
she just showed up just to go. Her and her dad lived basically,
you know, big property, separatesides, and she was just coming over
like she did every day, justto check on her dad, and she
just like walked in to the wrongplace at the wrong time. Yeah,
he just was clearly going overboard withher, you know. And he's constantly

(50:39):
finding weapons of opportunity. That's justhis thing. He's a traveler and he's
nomadic, so everything from sledgehammers topick axes and chuck whatever he finds.
But this person, he definitely justkept going with her, and he was
clearly more severe. Even though thebeatings that he gave to other people were

(51:04):
completely horrific, this one was abit of overkill. After the two murders,
on Hell just basically hung out atthe house reading the paper that George
had just bought and he removed familyphotos from the walls, then ate a
bunch of leftover food. He thenstole George's red pickup truck and he drove

(51:28):
about sixty miles away through Cairo,Illinois, where a person spotted the truck
being driven by a man that matchedon Hell's description. Unfortunately, since he
was so transient, it seemed almostimpossible to track him down. But the
crimes were basically similar enough for policeto be fairly certain that they were just

(51:52):
dealing with one perpetrator. Even ata few of the crime scenes where they
hadn't really collected much forensics, theprofilers felt like there was clearly enough similarities
in the murders themselves that they wereprobably all committed by the same person.

(52:19):
The first similarity was that all themurders were within close proximity of railroad tracks.
The killer would also spend hours inthe house just rifling through things,
eating, snooping, taking cash orjewelry, any valuables that he could find,
and it was clear that this killerdidn't flee the scene immediately after the

(52:45):
murders. Another similarity was that mostof the victims were found with a blanket
or something similar, basically covering thebodies, so the killer didn't have to
look at the victim while he wasspending all this time snooping around the house.
It also seems like there was alot of police cooperation with each other,

(53:08):
which doesn't happen a lot, wherethey all kind of went, Okay,
you've got a murder near the railroadtracks, right, I got one
too. He went through the house. Okay, me too, you know,
just checking boxes and just like,oh wait, we got one of
those two. Especially because he istraveling over state lines so constantly and so
easily international travel just whatever, I'lldeported. Cool, we're here now,

(53:30):
We're in Illinois today, Texas tomorrow. Yeah, it definitely is weird because
we see so many cases where,you know, they it's called linkage blindness,
where the police in different towns don'tcommunicate with each other and so they
don't know what's going on, soyou don't see that the cases are linked
because you're not talking to the Texasauthorities when you're in Illinois, you know.

(53:54):
So this is definitely a rare case, especially back in the day.
Now we have so much more technologythat can help link these cases, but
it was incredibly common for different murdersto commit crimes in different states and it
not be seen as perpetrated by thesame person because nobody was communicating and nobody

(54:20):
had the vast resources of information,you know, so this is definitely rare.
Since the police were fairly certain thatthey were looking for one serial killer,
they began to refer to him asthe Railroad Killer, and in nineteen
ninety seven their intense manhunt for himhad truly begun. The FBI's Violent Criminal

(54:47):
Apprehension Program aka VYCAP was used tocompare elements of each murder, and it
was determined that they were indeed allcommitted by the same person. Former FBI
profiler John Douglas described on Hell's mO saying, quote, when he hitches

(55:08):
a ride on the freight train,he doesn't necessarily know where the train is
going, but when he gets off. Having a background as a burglar,
he's able to scope out the area, do a little surveillance, make sure
he breaks into the right house wherethere won't be anyone to give him a
run for his money. He canenter a home complete with cutting glass and

(55:30):
reaching in and undoing the locks.He'll look through the windows and see who's
occupying it. The guy is onlyfive foot seven, very small. In
fact, the early weapons were primarilyblunt force trauma weapons, weapons of opportunity
found at the scene. He hasto case them out, make sure he

(55:52):
can put himself in a win winsituation. He probably started killing somewhere in
his late one He may have killedpeople like himself, initially males transience.
He became angry at the population atlarge. What America represents here is the
wealthy country where he keeps getting kickedout. He just can't make ends meet.

(56:16):
Coupled with these feelings, these inadequacies, fueled by the fact that he's
known to take alcohol, take drugs, lowers his inhibitions to go out and
kill. Yeah, I think that'sa pretty good synopsis and profile of him.
I mean nailed it, like youknow, just especially the part where

(56:42):
he says when he hitches a rideon a freight train, he doesn't necessarily
know where the train is going,and Nat is like, I don't know
why, but it feels really likea big statement. Yes, he's basically
like I said earlier, I thinkI get the feeling that he's just surviving,
you know, And eventually it becomespart of his survival instinct to be

(57:02):
violence. It's no longer about moneyand sustaining his life. It's just about
really seeking out victims. The moneybecomes secondary. What's crazy, too,
is he could at any time justgo back to Rodeo and be with Julietta
and live his life with his daughterand be an English teacher and probably have

(57:25):
a you know, pretty good lifeand you know, fulfilling, and you
have grandkids, you have a relationshipwith you know, it's like you have
a normal life. You're choosing tobe a serial killer. The fuck rights.
That's absolutely just baffling to me.It's just astounding that he's got so

(57:49):
much stability back in his hometown justwaiting for him. He could go at
any time, and he does indeedreturn periodically, but he doesn't stay.
You know. It seems almost likehe's addicted to being on the run and
committing these violent crimes. You know, by this point he's the murderer,

(58:09):
and yeah, you're right, that'sall he knows. He's just got to
keep going. There were also forensicconnections uncovered through fingerprints and DNA which connected
on how to multiple murders across Texas, Illinois, Florida, Kentucky, California,

(58:31):
and Georgia. Police believe that thoughon how did sexually assault some of
his victims, the sex was secondaryto the robbery or murder. Law enforcement
began performing extensive searches at many railyards and box car junctions, taking anyone

(58:53):
inside or around the area in forquestioning. Do you think that they stopped
at h trains and found a boxcar full of children at some point?
Oh man? Because there is anentire series of books called The Box Car
Children that has always just really confusedme, even from childhood, that people

(59:15):
are aware that these this family ofkids live in a box car and they're
just down with this shit. Ineed to revisit that. I have to
be remembering it wrong. That can'tbe real. It sounds talking about it
really sounds familiar to me, butI can't place it. I know there's
a hole. There's a whole seriesof children's books, The box Car Children.

(59:37):
Please someone let Brianna know I'm notinsane? Was it I need to
pay? Like the Little Rascals orsomething? Okay, that's like they're getting
into shenanigans in the box cars.I vaguely remember this being a little more
serious. Really, we'll look intothis. I don't I don't need to
waste everybody's life with this, butI'll waste yours. I will send you
because I just remember being like,how do you wait? Because I think

(01:00:00):
their parents are dead, you know, something like that some fucking runaway abandonment
story. And the kids, likethe oldest one is like a seventeen year
old boy, and then there's likea girl and another boy and a little
girl and like a little one andthey all live it up goad to have
box car. And even as akid, I'm just what that's dark?

(01:00:20):
Where the adults somebody call a grownup, you know, like what's happening?
So anyway, that was all Icould think of, too, was
like can you imagine they're searching thetrains and all of a sudden they open
one and they find all the kidsin the box car. Oh god,
I'm the only one that's thinking thisshit. Trust me, anyway, keep
going. Trains were even being stoppedand searched from end to end in hopes

(01:00:45):
of finding the railroad killer hiding somewhereaboard. Officers were also canvassing various shelters
and known transient hangouts where they identifiedsuspects, questioned individuals, and then release
them. In June of nineteen ninetynine, on Hell was added to the

(01:01:07):
FBI's Top ten most Wanted list,with an initial reward of fifty thousand dollars
that eventually rose to one hundred andtwenty five thousand dollars within days of the
announcement. And again, this isin nineteen ninety nine, so I'm thinking

(01:01:28):
at least double that it's a tonof money. Oh yeah. The authorities
were clearly embarrassed by the fact thation S had on Hell and custody on
June second, but because of quotea computer glitch, they had deported him
back to Mexico and he'd went onto murder two more people in the US

(01:01:50):
just two days later. He wasdescribed as five to seven, one hundred
and forty to one hundred and fiftypounds and having a tattoo of a snake
as well as one of a flower. I can't even imagine being the person
that has to be like, yeah, so we had him, and like

(01:02:12):
we really had him, you know, we had him in cuffs and we
were questioning him. We had him, and then we didn't have him anymore,
and then he killed some people.But it was a computer glitch,
you understand, right, right,like whoa, oh my god. I'm
sure there was a ton of peoplescrambling to not take responsibility for that computer

(01:02:34):
glitch. Quote unquote, yeah exactly. It was said that he may have
been using an alias and working asa day labor or an auto mechanic.
He's got skills, man, It'sjust but now they know he's using a
ton of different names too, Sohe's taking all these different jobs and using

(01:02:59):
different names. It's just he's aghost. He's nowhere to be found.
He's everywhere and nowhere. He doesa lot of you know, side jobs
too, like day labor and stuffis like cash price, you know.
I mean you can't track him.Yeah. On June tenth, a police
officer in Rodeo, Mexico said thathe had seen quote the eccentric English teacher

(01:03:22):
from the Convent School, really funnydescription from the Convent School reading a newspaper
article, then folding up the paper, which had clearly spooked him, before
leaving his food on the table andtaking off in a hurry. When the
officer looked at the paper, itwas clear he'd seen an article about the

(01:03:45):
railroad killer. News of a Hell'smurders had finally reached his hometown, so
he fled in a hurry, realizingthat the alias would at least give him
just a little bit of time toget out of town. But that was
it. He didn't not along.You know what else about this guy,
he never changes his appearance ever.He has like the same when he wears

(01:04:10):
glasses, they're the same glasses.They're really recognizable. He always has this,
you know, he looks like aguy who's been riding trains around.
He kind of that really famous RichardRamirez mug shot that everybody's seeing now because
of the show. He looks likehe could be related to him, Like
they have that same you know,like transient living in the streets kind of
for long periods of time. Look, And he never changes it. He

(01:04:33):
always looks the same. And he'sjust using different names. So I can't
imagine how many times people in townhe gave different names to. But they're
like, wait, that's on Hill, that's on Hell, that's Raphael,
that's Lantacio. What do you mean, Yeah, that's the same guy.
So it's just kind of funny tome. Because he usually, like Ted
Bundy, he would look at youfrom the left and he was Tom,

(01:04:53):
and then from the right he wasSimon. You know, it's like this
guy doesn't try at all. It'scrazy no, And he doesn't have to
because he keeps evading police and slippingthrough the cracks like he's again he's a
ghost, so he doesn't really haveto change his appearance. Nobody really notices
him. On July first, nineteenninety nine, DNA collected inside Josephine's home

(01:05:16):
was found to be no Emmy's,which linked on Hell to both of the
murders and confirmed that he had droveone woman's car to the other's house to
murder her. Tips were coming infrom all over the country that he was
being spotted everywhere. On July seventh, nineteen ninety nine, FBI contacted on

(01:05:40):
Hell's wife, Julietta, in Rodeo, Mexico, and asked her to assist
them in persuading on Hell to surrender. She had reportedly slept very little and
lost a good amount of weight sinceon Hell told her that police may come
looking for him and he had toleave town. She willingly turned over evidence,

(01:06:04):
including ninety three pieces of jewelry thaton hell had mailed to her while
he was abroad. This is whyyou can't tell me she did not know
something was going on. You know, I think she probably thought he was
in a cartel, he was indrugs, he was something like that where

(01:06:25):
he was buying her fancy, prettythings to keep her quiet. You know,
he has all this money from thedrugs after all. Right, That
I think is the way that yourationalize this. How does a man who
is a migrant farm worker, whois not even home, and when he
is, he is an English teacherafford ninety three pieces of jewelry? Some

(01:06:45):
of this jewelry is fancy shit?How did you not know who has come
on? So I think that shejust compartmentalized and like, yeah, he's
into some shit. He's definitely acriminal of some sort, but he's not
a murderer, so I can doit until he's a murderer, right,
Yeah, she must have turned ablind eye to this. I can't believe

(01:07:05):
that she ended up with him inthe first place. Well, of course,
but then secondarily it's baffling that shewouldn't know. She had to know.
He had to be very charismatic somethingintoxicating, right, something. He
must have been a salesman. Idon't know, but he sold her a
line of bullshit. She bought it, and Lydia too, like his little

(01:07:30):
daughter, like what the fuck anyway, Yeah, piss off. So Julietta
had a feeling that that jewelry wastaken from the victims, she said,
and she was right, and atleast thirteen of the pieces belonged to Noemi.
There was also an overwhelming amount offingerprint and DNA evidence, plus additional

(01:07:56):
stolen items recovered from their home thattied him to all of these different murder
cases. Julietta said, quote,We've been living together five years and I
had no idea about this. Henever was violent or sadistic. He was
a gentleman in all the small details. He never failed to open the car

(01:08:19):
door for me. But if hedid what they are saying, his spirit
is rotting and his mind must bedisturbed. My on Hell refused to turn
himself in or to repent and askGod's blessing. He told me it's better
to run. I cannot stand prison. They're pursuing me and there's no alternative.

(01:08:45):
You don't know what is inside aman's head. But we were a
very stable couple, okay, youknow, And I feel bad for her.
She is an additional victim, butthe same time, she had to
know something. And it's just confusingbecause, you know, I feel bad

(01:09:06):
for her in one sense that shegot duped by this criminal, but on
the other hand, she was complicitin some sense because she kept profiting off
of his crimes. And there's noway for her to think that this came
from Legit means that he would besending all this money and jewelry. You

(01:09:27):
know, I feel like you justdescribed Teresa Judais and her husband Joe.
I hate people say, guys,it's judj Okay, fucking Teresa jud and
Joe Judj and their whole relationship.You just described it. That's what I
feel like. You know, shehad an idea, you know, but
she just didn't know what she wassigning, right. Yes, I think

(01:09:47):
it's stuff like that. This isa version. This is a New Jersey
Housewife version of Mexico Housewife Julia DominusRas. So you know, it's something.
I really do think she knew somethingwas up, but I think she
just thought he was a criminal,like really, you know, or had
a friend who fenced jewelry or something. Yeah, at least she's getting something

(01:10:09):
out of it. And you know, whatever he has to do to bring
in the money, she must havejust churned a blind eye. Yep.
She told the police that he wouldonly stay in Rodeo for a month or
two. Then, as he hadalways done since he was sixteen, on
how would cross the border to workas a migrant farmer or on any farm

(01:10:32):
where he could find work. Sometimeshe took others across the border with him
so that he could make about fourhundred dollars per person. Then he would
steal a newer car so he coulddrive it back and sell it for profit
in Mexico. He's got little rackets, you know, He's got little rackets

(01:10:53):
that he does. Yet, Imean, that's what she thinks. When
it was found that the railroad killerwas on Hell, reporters and media descended
on his uncle's house for a statements. And you know, one of the
big reasons for this is that,like you had said, one of his

(01:11:15):
aliases was Raphael. His name wasthe same the now sixty six year old
Raphael, who was suffering from diabetesand eye problems, gave comments to the
media pleading for on Hell to turnhimself in. And another aspect of this
is that again everybody knew it wasjust this like open statement that on Hell

(01:11:39):
had been sexually assaulted and abused byhis uncle as a child when he lived
with him. So I have afeeling that a lot of people descended on
Rafael's house, you know, talkingabout, oh, your deaphe your nephew.
But then they may have been like, hey, by the way,
your sexual predator, you know whatI mean. Like, I have a
feeling he was not so upset overit was his name, but that they

(01:12:00):
were coming and saying some shit hemight not have liked, and they were
bothering this old man in his goldenyears, Right, I think that's more
of what it was. He doesn'tgive a shit, He's just pissed off
that they've all come to his house. Yeah, it finally caught up to
him. Yes. Back in theUS, the man hunt to find the
railroad killer was continuing. A relativelynew Texas ranger named Drew Carter had received

(01:12:27):
a tip that on Hell was currentlyin Mexico and began planning how to bring
him in. Drew contacted on Hell'ssister, Manuela Carkowitz, who was living
in Albuquerque, New Mexico at thetime. Kurkey sorry she initially refused to
cooperate. He pleaded with Manuela tohelp them facilitate a peaceful surrender of her

(01:12:56):
brother, guaranteeing his safety in jail, regular visiting for family, plus psychological
evaluations and treatments. Basically, atthis point, he had committed so many
murders that it seemed like it wouldbe a violent apprehension and this was the
way that she could help her brothercome in safely. Well, this was

(01:13:18):
super easy too, Like it reallysmart on the end of this agent of
this Texas ranger, that's just like, you know what, he doesn't want
to come in, Like, let'sjust bring him to us and maybe we
can just plead, you know,with his family, to plead with him,
and he'll come in. And Imean, shit, we'll take a
shot in the dark. What havewe got to lose. He's on the

(01:13:39):
run, we can't find him.We might as well draw him out,
right. They have to try differentthings and think outside the box because they
haven't been able to catch him thusfar. Yeah, and not only have
they not been able to catch him, but they don't have any leads.
I mean, they have no ideawhere to go, you know, they

(01:14:00):
just have no idea where the railroadhas taken him. Once a deal was
written up, Manuela was able toconvince on How to surrender himself. Ranger
Drew Manuela and her pastor as aspiritual advisor, met on How on the
International bridge connecting El Paso, Texaswith Ciudad Warez, Chihuahua, where he

(01:14:24):
agreed to surrender on July thirteenth,nineteen ninety nine. After he was apprehended,
on How claimed he had killed sevenadditional people in Mexico. I don't
know if they were able to confirmthese additional murders. No, he just

(01:14:45):
said it right. So how muchdoes that say about the authorities in Mexico
that they weren't able to There's alsothe question later about the Mexican authorities trying
to say, you know, justthey really, really really It's very strange.
What is their motivation here, becausethey not only don't pursue seven additional

(01:15:09):
murders in their country that they couldhave jurisdiction over, and we have proof
of him being a murderer in theUS. It's not a question because they
help facilitate, you know, it'slike, okay, so you're talking to
both sides your mouth because then andlater they try to you know, postpone
and say you know that that youcan't kill him and all of this,

(01:15:29):
and that he wasn't even legally tried, and like Mexico really tried to fuck
this up for the US, andlike what is their motivation? It's very
strange. I didn't want to getinto it because I don't know Mexico politics,
government shit like that. I can'tspeak on it, but I'm telling
you just as a human being reading, there's there's some questions here. It

(01:15:50):
just seems like if this were true, that there were seven additional murderers,
that there would be some inkling backin his hometown or in his home country
that this had happened. But itdoesn't seem like the Mexican authorities were trying
at all to catch him for anycrimes. He never really had a record,

(01:16:12):
it seemed like and all they weredoing was trying to keep him out
of trouble in the US. It'sweird. It's very strange. It doesn't
really make a lot of sense unlessyou think, Okay, we're not even
going to bother with the Mexican crimesbecause he's going down in the US.
Yeah. Then if that's the case, why intersert yourself later? It's all

(01:16:35):
or nothing. You can't have itboth ways. Yeah. I mean,
I guess they just kind of gaveup because it's like, oh, well,
you know, he's already being triedfor these murders in America, but
it just seems, I mean,we have no information on these additional seven
people that lost their lives, andhe says he definitely claiming that he did

(01:16:56):
it. Yeah. Yeah, andif there's seven, he has details,
you know, so he could probablydescribe all seven if he can literally say,
oh, there are seven of them, right, he can give closure
to families and he can close thesecases. But Mexico doesn't seem interested in
pursuing this at all. No,it's not so Unheal's defense team attempted to

(01:17:25):
prove insanity, but there was enoughevidence to prove that he had been legally
sane at the time of the murders. Many thought that he demonstrated mental competency
since he'd been coming up with moneymakingschemes in jail, like selling his autographs
and hair clippings, and refusing anythingunder fifty dollars. The prosecution also aimed

(01:17:51):
to prove sanity and premeditation by bringingup that he had used multiple aliases and
had known how to avoid law enforcementwhile he was on the run, and
he did. I mean it clearlydemonstrates all of his actions show that he
knew what he was doing. Thesurviving victim, Holly Dunn, testified against

(01:18:15):
on Hell in the trial. OnMay twenty fourth, two thousand, on
Hell was convicted and sentenced to deathfor Claudia Benton's murder. He was sent
to death row in Livingstone until histransfer to Huntsville. Many Mexican officials tried

(01:18:39):
to stop or stall the execution ofon Hell, as the Mexican government opposed
capital punishment and felt that he wasn'tlegally saying to stand trial, let alone
be executed. I think that's whatthey hung. The son was like,
yes, he did commit seven othermurders, but he's not legally saying to
stand trial. Also, we can'texecute him, so we're not even going

(01:19:01):
to try. So that Mexico,if they were to do anything, it
would just be to put him intosome sort of institution. Yeah, but
yeah, it's just it's more aboutclosure, you know, even if it
is the case, at least youcan give people some answers. Yeah,
the government would actively support his appealsprocess and other opponents of the death penalty

(01:19:26):
who felt that they were fighting forhis life. Mexico hired an attorney named
Jack Zimmerman to review on Hell's case, since they believed that he had been
the victim of unfair treatment at thehands of the States, then you take
him and you try him fairly,right, that's the case. You know,
we're just going to hire an attorneyfor him in another country to make

(01:19:49):
sure that they're doing the right thingbecause we don't believe it. But no,
no, no, no, no, we don't want to handle it.
So you got Yeah, they're reallysticking up for him in a way
that seems very suspicious. Yeah,I mean, and I feel like I
can't I can't say that, LikeI can't speak on that because I don't
know. But from somebody from theoutside just looking at this, I got

(01:20:12):
major questions. Zimmerman claimed that aHell was schizophrenic and not competent to be
executed. According to Anhill's attorney whenhe was evaluated for a competency. He
claimed he would go into suspended animationfor three days, then enter a new
body in the Middle East where hewould battle Israel's enemies. Claudia Benton's husband,

(01:20:41):
George, was the most vocal aboutupholding the death penalty. George made
statements to the press that Mexican governmentshould be ashamed of themselves trying to save
someone who quote looked like a manand walked like a man, but what
lived within the skin was not ahuman being. In two thousand, hoping

(01:21:06):
to speed up his execution, onHow began confessing to murders that hadn't been
connected to him previously. He confessedto the unidentified transient couple's murder and claimed
that he had murdered another male transient. Also, in the case of Wendy

(01:21:26):
von Human, who was still technicallya missing person, he was able to
give the family some closure by drawinga map and taking the police to the
location where he had buried the body. And that's so insane, because again
that family had gone on like RickeyLake and Dateline and like psychics and all
of it, trying to you know, just get some sort of resolve,

(01:21:47):
and he knew all along, andyou know, it sucks that they had
to wait so long, but atleast he didn't, you know, pull
like a dick move and just shutup and not tell him. Yeah,
the opportunity for them to get whatthey were seeking, which is the information
and all you know, the timethat they spent trying to get the tips

(01:22:11):
and find her body and figure outwhat happened. He was finally able to
give that to them. But youknow, he waited so long for It's
just they had to wait forever.You know. He confessed to killing her
boyfriend Jesse Howell first, and Wendyeight hours later. On Hell traveled to

(01:22:35):
his execution at Huntsville, Texas,declining a last meal. His mother,
a brother, and his sister Manuelawere present for his execution. Before his
death, he was allowed to visitwith his now seven year old daughter Lyria,
as well as his mother. Whatdoes that do to you as like

(01:22:57):
a seven year old? I know, I can't even imagine, Jesus,
I don't know. I don't knowas a mom, do you let them
visit with their father who's about tobe executed, or do you just like
no, he's a memory now.Sorry, but like is that good for
a kid? I mean, it'sjust wild. I mean as an adult,
I would have questions of whether I'dwant to do that. You know,

(01:23:20):
it's just bizarre. I don't know. Yeah, that's something that definitely.
I mean, in my position,I'd want to seek the help of
a therapist and see what would affectthe child most. Yeah, you know,
is it better for the child tohave closure and talk to him or
to just that be the end ofthem and not see their father? In

(01:23:41):
that context? You know, hedid say that he was half man,
half avenging angel, and that hecould not be killed. His name was
Angel. That's about it. That'swhere the similarities end. Like that's where
he's going with that. It's like, well, my name's Angel, therefore

(01:24:01):
I'm an avenging angel who will comeback. What shut up. His last
words were to the families of hisvictims who were witnessing the execution. He
said, quote, I want toask if it is in your heart to
forgive me. You don't have to. I know I allowed the devil to
rule my life. I just askyou to forgive me and ask the Lord

(01:24:26):
forgive me for allowing the devil todeceive me. I thank God for having
patience with me. I don't deserveto cause you pain. You did not
deserve this. I deserve what Iam getting. He then said a prayer
in Hebrew as he claimed to beJewish, and one in Spanish as the
injection took effect. He died onJune twenty seventh, two thousand and six.

(01:24:53):
He was forty five years old.Surviving victim, Holly Dunn live in
Indiana and started Holly's House in Evansville, Indiana, which is a center for
victims of violent crime. In Juneof two thousand and six, she received
the Jacqueline Kennedy on Nassas Award forOutstanding Public Service due to her work as

(01:25:15):
an advocate for victims of sexual assaults. So cool. Yeah, these stories
are amazing when someone can take whathappened to them and turn it into just
this beautiful way of helping people,You know, I just I'm in awe
of that strength. She wrote abook called The Sole Survivor that details her

(01:25:42):
experience and rebuilding her life afterwards.George Benton won a forty nine million dollar
wrongful death judgment in the death ofhis wife, doctor Claudia Benton. He
and Claudia's twin daughters planned to donateany money received to Texas Children's Hospital,
where Claudia worked. Wow, atleast we have a couple stories of positivity

(01:26:09):
to end on when there's a longlist of victims like that. I'm grateful
to hear some positivity at the endbecause everything he did for so many years
was so horrific. It's really crazytoo, because it started he was so

(01:26:30):
young. I mean, you know, there's a lot of people that we
say this a lot. You know, you go through hard times and things
happen to you, and you don'tgo around killing people, you know,
and he just we see so manyof these where from the beginning, it's
like, you know, they hadvery little of a chance, and it's

(01:26:54):
just from the get there's issues andyou have parents who, maybe not even
for their own fault, are distracted, let's say, you know, trying
to make a better future, andin the process futures just passing them by,
and the kids are getting older andnow he's eleven, sniffing glue,
running away from home, and we'llstart murdering people shortly after. You know,

(01:27:16):
it's just who's to say, it'sjust it's bizarre. And again,
this is not the normal case.I just can't believe how many times he
was deported too. Yeah, itdoes seem just incredibly tragic his entire life,

(01:27:36):
you know. Yes, he alwayshad the least opportunity. You know,
in every sense, he was justheld back from achieving anything positive.
He came from a really traumatic childhoodand things continued to be traumatic till his
adulthood. But like we always talkabout, of course, that doesn't mean

(01:28:00):
that you're going to end up beinga murderer or a criminal or whatever.
You know, it doesn't really determineyour future. So he really actively,
i think, made a choice thathe wanted to be violent at some point.
And even though he didn't have opportunitiesand he lacked so much in the

(01:28:21):
way of love and healthy upbringing andwhatnot, there was still an opportunity for
him to change that and he chosenot to. You know. The other
thing too, is while you're livingthis life on the rails, right,
just this crazy existence of I don'teven know where the fox trains going and

(01:28:42):
I'm not even old enough to drivea car, right, at some point
he encounters men like the one hewill become. You know that in those
box cars, he was attacked,he was robbed, he was beaten up,
he was probably stabbed and shit,you know, you learn these like
the things he did was learned behaviorof like this is how you survive.

(01:29:05):
So it's also really sad to thinkabout the fact that, like, at
some point little on Hell was comingup against grown, scary people as a
kid, and then of course you'rejust going to formulate your life to this
is how I survive. This iswhat the grown ups do here. You
know, they beat people to deathwith plywood right in front of me.
Crazy shit goes down, you know, and like the drugs and the alcohol,

(01:29:29):
I mean, you know, it'sjust it's a crazy existence. Yeah,
he runs nuts. He really bouncedfrom one trauma to another, you
know, the abandonment of his childhood, seeing the abuse, and then he
goes to his uncle's house and itgets even worse. And then as soon
as he leaves, then there's notelling what he was exposed to. You

(01:29:53):
know, he had no positive influences. It seemed like through his entire life
he was just out there on hisown trying to gather information on what it
was to survive in this world.And what he saw was nothing but negative.
It was nothing but violence and tragedyand really really awful stuff. So

(01:30:17):
yeah, and you're right, youknow, at eleven years old, he's
not equipped to be out there withadults using drugs and traveling on box cars
and who knows what he saw.So it wasn't just his family life,
but it continued into his teens,which probably influenced a lot of his later
behavior. But even though those canbe an influence, like we always say,

(01:30:42):
you know, it just doesn't determinethe future. There's plenty of people
that have gone through horrific things thatdon't do that. And on how as
a person that chose to be violentat the end of the day, Yeah,
well, violence is how you getby in this world. Yeah,
he's learned crazy. The other thingabout this and I don't know why,

(01:31:06):
but like, for example, littleLeafy Mason lives like fifty yards from the
train tracks, right, can youimagine how loud it is every damn time.
All these houses were right on thetrain tracks. It's crazy and it
kind of reminds me. I don'tknow, if you ever used to watch

(01:31:27):
the Intellectual Choice, here comes honey, boo boo. If you're familiar.
They lived on top of a traintrack, and it was the funniest shit
to me. Every time the trainwent by, just in case you didn't
hear it coming, they would allscream train every single damn time, and
it always just cracked me up.And it was like, I guess if
you live that close, you haveto make it like fun and kind of

(01:31:48):
silly, right, because every twentythirty forty minutes there is a locomotive rolling
through your front yard. I mean, that's just insanity. I can't imagine.
I think it's crazy living on abusy street, you know, right,
imagine living in a train yard.I wonder how much of that noise
also could cover up on hell sneakingaround, you know, much of it?

(01:32:13):
Maybe him just lurking around in thefront yard. As soon as he
could hear the train coming down theroad, He's like, oh, it's
a couple of miles away. Ican hear it. It's a mile away,
Okay, cool, let me getready to open the window. You
know, goes by and the wholehouse shakes. Yeah, they'll never notice
a door is open. Exacts theperfect cover for any sort of noise that
he would be making because it's soloud yep. Definitely. Also on a

(01:32:38):
side note, I did have amoment where I looked up if I was
insane, and I wasn't. Apparently. Henry, Jesse, Violet, and
Benny are four recently orphaned siblings.Not wishing to live with their hard hearted
grandfather. They have never met himbecause of his disapproval of their parents' marriage.
The children strike out on their ownand live inside of a box car

(01:33:00):
in the woods. Oh god,Henry works at a nearby town called Silver
City. And yeah, he's likeeighteen. The youngest one is six years
old, Brianna six ten, twelve, And oh, I'm sorry. He
wasn't seventeen. He was fourteen.And he's a natural athlete. Sorry,
and he has a knack for repairingthings. I mean, what the fuck?
I remember being at the time likethis is an option, Like if

(01:33:25):
I don't like I can just moveto the woods and live in a box
car with my best friend and hersister, that we'll take care of crazy
shit. I just it was funny. I just every throughout this whole thing,
I'm just waiting for somebody to mentionthe box car children nobody has yet
but me. So anyway, railroad, it's crazy. You can get away

(01:33:45):
with a lot of shit when you'reriding trains. Yeah, absolutely, It's
just such an easy means of gettingall over And like we said, I
mean, it's so rare for policein various areas to connect murders that are
from other states or whatnot. SoI mean, these railroad killers, it's
just so much easier for them toget away with things for longer because everything

(01:34:09):
is happening so far away and nobodyknows, you know, as soon as
there's heat in one county or onestate, they could just move to the
next place. So yeah, railroadfor our is definitely an interesting one.
Yeah, and we'll dive more intothat next week. Yep. So before
we get out of here, wejust want to remind you if you want

(01:34:31):
to read more about the stories,We've always got links to the resources that
we use to research. We've alsogot links for resources for things like suicide
hotlines, mental health help, domesticviolence resources, substance abuse resources, all
sorts of stuff, and you canget merch on thread lists. You can

(01:34:54):
find us at Murder Dictionary Podcast onFacebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and
you can have access to bonus episodesand perks on Patreon. So just before
we take off tonight, we wantto say thank you to our new patrons
on Patreon, Casey Maddie, LizKristen and Angela, thank you. Thanks

(01:35:23):
a super super weird shit coming yourway on Patreon too, it's coming by
the way. Just as a sidenote, And then with this Richard Ramirez
special, we already discussed how Idon't understand where the outrage is coming from.
I didn't see anything that bad froman Oxygen doc. I'm gonna try

(01:35:43):
to cruise over to some of theseplaces and take pictures of their current state
because it's all nearby. Yeah,I mean really like we he was in
our backyard, so it'll be interesting. So I'll post those in the group
two. Yeah, that's all gotsome idea. But yeah, we got
the Cecil Hotel thing coming too withAlisa Lamb. I think it's like the

(01:36:04):
twenty third or some shit like that. That one will get there. Looking
forward to I'm gonna have to dosome sort of roundup of the television in
the next month because we've got alot coming out. Yeah, we really
should just go to crime screen.We'll figure it out. We'll get there,
we'll figure it out. So anyway, everybody, thank you, Thank
you for your patience with us.Happy New Year. We hope your holidays

(01:36:26):
were wonderful and everyone's healthy. Yeah, stay safe, stay inside, mask
up. We hope you're doing welland we will see you next time.
Bye Bye the cont

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