April 10, 2020 • 45 mins
In part two of Columbine Killers, Kyle and I discuss the first ten minutes of when the shooting began. It's amazing how much can happen in such a short amount of time. We also talk about how Columbine changed how we approach things today and the zero-tolerance policy that schools have adopted.
Music used:
"Lightless Dawn"
"Pamgaea"
Kevin MacLeod
(incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Music used:
"Lightless Dawn"
"Pamgaea"
Kevin MacLeod
(incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This show may contain adult language andthemes. Listener discretion is advised. With
that out of the way, let'sstart the show. Now. You're listening
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to the Murder is My Sign podcast, the only true crime astrology podcast,
and I'm your host, Jordi Death, here to let your way through the
true crime astrology storm and in studiowith me again as always, I guess
is the last couple episodes at leastis mister Kyle, Hey, how are
you doing? So glad that you'reable to join us yet again? I
mean, at this point, it'salmost like you're become my co host,
(01:00):
which is pretty freaking cool. Iat least I think, Yeah, I'm
digging it. Yeah, I'm too, especially it's it's definitely helping at least
me get through this particular batch ofepisodes with Columbine. And I know we're
kind of talking about this before westarted recording, but I've personally been kind
of struggling getting through this because Idon't know, I think I'm over identifying
(01:23):
with it a little too much ofI'm being honest, but then also I
think it's just so over identifying withwhat with having been so young and living
through that and then also experiencing itmyself as far as being out lockdown and
being and like in active shooting situationsand things like that. And then also
these kids were like around our age. I mean, okay, yeah,
(01:44):
this took place in nineteen ninety nine, but it means it's within our times,
band, It's it's within the realmof possibility of actually helping happening to
us. Whereas like you know,when we're when we were covering um Hillside
Stranglers, that was like in theseventies, and that makes perfect completely like
different. And also that was likea serial killer where it was just like
(02:05):
over the course of time, andwhereas it's just I mean, we're gonna
get into this a little bit toowith part two of the series. But
like reading reading Dylan's journal and readingEric's website, it's just I can I
personally empathize a lot more with Dylanbecause he was way more depressed and stuff,
(02:27):
and like, I'm a person whoalso writes in her journal all the
time. Eric was just a fuckingpsychotic, hateful bastard. But I don't
know, it's just it's it's it'sit's always, it's just it's just hard
and plus with everything else that's goingon in the fucking world, it's just
been you know, a shitty,shitty stress stress or stress show and a
(02:51):
fucking snow today. It's it's Aprilthe goddamn ninth, and it fucking snowed
a little bit today. Wisconsin,Jesus, it's like mother Nature's on.
You just have the reset that timeto take me to that whisco disco.
I've never heard that before. That'sfunny. Bubbles Wisconsin Discotheque. Nice,
take me to that whisco disco.That's awesome, man. You know,
(03:15):
I still have to see that yougave me and I listened to them like
whenever they pop up, and they'rereally good. So Bubbles Ronica people,
if you haven't heard them, golook them up. All right, So
last episode in part one, wekind of talked about, you know,
our memories of the event of whenCalumbine happened, and then also what kind
(03:38):
of I guess prompted Eric and Dylanand who they were and stuff like that.
Now, Eric was definitely the mastermindof that was I distinctly remember that
not being clear. Yeah, manyfor quite a long time after. I
mean, obviously there was a lotof informations. Yeah, that came out
(04:01):
later, but just at the time, I distinctly remember that it was just
two kids who were fed up withlight, fed up with life and the
people around them. Right. Butit's only after time that you started to
realize that it was clear. Itwas clearly there was one kid who I
think he was more suicidal than homicidal, right, and that was Dylan,
(04:23):
and he was following somebody who hada magnanimous like not magnanimous, but just
a huge personality and somebody he couldlatch onto. Yeah, I'm so glad
that you brought that up, becauseI actually just finished reading Dave Collin's book
at Columbine and I took a bunchof notes here, and one of them
(04:47):
he talked about how Dylan's personality andEric's personally fed into each other. And
I know we'll probably talk about thisin the next episode, like when we
get into the compatibility astrologically speeding.But um, there's a lot of us,
like one person's the one person's thealpha, and the other person's sort
of like the followers kind of,wasn't it Lake and the Lake and ing
(05:13):
two. We'll be getting into thoseguys. I think next month, Oh,
you're actually doing them. Yeah,I have a The calendar behind me
has all the people we're doing thishere, so but you have to go
back month five months. But yeah, they're definitely on my list. I
don't know when we're gonna get them. It really will depend on if I
can get like their complete natal chartinformation. That means the British couple with
the kids, oh wests, wasn'tit rose maryn Fred west One was more
(05:36):
like the followers than well. Imean that's that you're you're going to find
that in everything, right, theinstigator and then the propellant. So in
David Cohen's book, he talks aboutthe dinads. I think that's how you
pronoun diad d y a d.So there are murderous pairs who feed off
each other. They account for onlya fraction of mass murderers. Partnerships time
(06:00):
to be asymmetrical. You have anangry, erratic depressive and a sadistic psychopath
that make a combustible pair. Thepsychopath is in control and the hot headed
sidekick can sustain the excitement leading upto the kill. So in the book
it goes pretty in depth about psychopathsand how Eric Harris with a true blue
(06:23):
psychopath. He ticked off everything flyingcolors. It's weird though, because even
for somebody who's almost eighteen, Idon't know he was eighteen. He was
eighteen, so yes, he wasvery young. They really, at least
from the training I've had, it'sabout a decade at date now, but
I new know they don't like tolabel that like that early, even though
(06:43):
some of the signs you see themgoing back like in early childhood. Yeah.
Yeah, And and Dave Colin evenlike talks about that about how I
feel like this is going to bemore like a book review. But seriously,
guys, if you're interested in Columbineand you really want the in depth
scoop all means, please go pickup a copy of Columbine. Came out
ten years after the event, andit is the end all be all.
(07:08):
I think I gotta say, I'veI've read a little bit here and there,
and even though when we're done withthis, I'm probably it's going to
go on my list of books toread. Yeah, because it was staggering
to me how much like I wasjust looking for general information. Yeah,
I just kept right right. Andthen I think That's why I was like
so kind of like frustrated in likethe first episode because I was just trying
(07:30):
to skim through it. But like, it's not a book you can skim
through. It's a book that's goingto suck you in. And the way
it's structured, yeah, it doesn'tgo in chronological order, so to speak.
It jumps around. It's very butit jumps around in a way that
makes sense because it's kind of likea time machine where it goes forwards and
backwards, but it's it's topical,I suppose. And he just released a
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new book on I don't know ifit was on Sandy Hook or Marjorie Stoneman
Douglas. I'm not familiar with thesecond person. Marjorie Stoneman Douglas was the
twenty seventeen Florida shooting oh at thehigh school. Yeah, yeah, seventeen
kids died in that one. Yeah, but the no because everyone calls its
(08:13):
Stoneman Douglass or whatever, um,but in that one, they actually captured
the shooter. He did not killhimself. So kind of going back to
what we're talking about, about,like the psychopathist, Dylan was obviously the
depressive here. He was very unhappywith his life. And it's interesting because
in all of his journals up untillike the like the month or so leading
(08:35):
up to the attack, he waswriting about love, about how he loved
the idea of love. He wantedlove, he wanted someone to love him
back, and he was becoming veryobsessive about this girl in school called Harriet.
And I don't know if that itwas her actual name or if they
assigned her a different name in thebook. I don't remember that. But
Dylan was all about love, likethe unrecointed love, very much a poetic
(08:58):
so I feel, whereas Eric wasall about the hate. Oh yeah,
he fucking hated everything and everyone.He thought he was owed the world and
if you crossed him, you wereon his list and he was going to
fucking kill you. And it's crazytoo because, like, so this was
in nineteen ninety nine, so likein ninety seven and ninety eight, the
(09:18):
Internet was still fairly new. Peopleall had like their AOL addresses, their
ims and things like that. Ithink mine was like punk Demon forty eight
back in the day. But atleast you're consistent love, yeah, pretty
much. It wasn't until I wasin high school that everything became Jordy death.
Eric was very vocal about his hatredand his lists and stuff, and
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there is this person to keep bringingup Brooks Brown and the Brown family,
and originally Brooks and Dylan were prettyclose, and then he did something to
really piss off Eric, and Ericjust fucking flipped to the point where he
started in Brooks and putting on hislist, like he actually wrote this on
(10:03):
his website like I'm going to killyou, I hate you, blah blah
blah. And someone saw this andreported it to the police, and they
wrote it down and they printed offthe pages. I think I read that
in a Soup Cleveland book because Iwas I skimmed that one too, not
as I'm probably not gonna go backand read that one, you know what,
(10:24):
compared to this one. But Iremember her like she was describing the
bomb squad and the SWAT team aregoing through her house and they're standing in
the drive away her and her eldestson. Another lady in the neighborhood was
like, oh, you know,and something about oh you know, this
(10:45):
hair is kid his website and shegoes, why why didn't you tell me
he had a violent website, solike people, and the people knew it
wasn't like this came completely out ofthem, right at least the anger on
his part right well in the hairis too like the Harris family to this
day have not spoken, have notsaid anything, have not given any interviews,
(11:07):
whereas the Kleiboldt's have been very forthcoming, very honest. And I mean
I started skimming Sue Kleiboldt's book aswell, but I think after reading all
of Columbine, I really don't feela need to read that, which might
be a little shitty, but atthis point in time, it's like I've
gotten what I need to. Istill understand, and you know, my
(11:30):
heart still goes out to her andTom and as well as Kathy and Wayne
Harris, you know, to haveto live with this because this is a
big thing they talked about in thebook too, is that now that Eric
and Dillon were dead, the parentswere the next one line to get blamed.
Yeah, and you know what,this might be a rational but to
some extent they're not to blame becauseat the end of the day, what
(11:56):
people do or their own decisions,right, But you gotta wonder about some
of the stuff right, Well,because like Wayne Harris who was ex military,
right he was named Air Force.Yeah, well, I don't really
know if it matters what branch youhave. I mean, they were all
taking very active parts in their kids'lives and stuff, even like when they
were going through like the whole dayVersion program, Like they showed up in
(12:16):
front of the judge with their sons, and the judge actually made a point
to point out that, like,this is the first time I've seen dads
with their sons here. Eric wassuch a brilliant liar and such a complete
socio psychopath. He pulled the woolover everyone's eyes. You know. I'm
thinking that's why, rightly or wrongly, the Klebolds have reasons to talk publicly,
(12:39):
because I think even a lay personthat he does a tiny little bit
of investigation could see, yeah,he was there, but he was not
the primer, right if honestly,if anyone's to blame it any of this,
it is Jeff co Sheriff Department.They fucked the pooch on this.
(13:01):
They did a whole cover up becausewhen Eric's website was reported, that was
like the first instance that he wasactually written down and in records, and
then he and Dylan gotten in trouble. They stole like car parts and things
like that from a van, yeah, and which got them into the diversion
program and stuff like that. Andthen Eric was getting guns and getting all
(13:24):
the stuff her pipe bombs, andthe Brown family kept calling the cops on
Eric Harris all the fucking time forevery little threat and things like that.
And there's just like one instance whereI think Eric was getting to like a
snowball fight, like just like akind of fun like little you know,
squal fight between kids and Judy BrownBrooks. Brown's mom comes and picks up
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Brooks and says something to Eric saying, you know, I'm going over to
your house to talk to your motherbecause he threw a snowball at her car
or something, and he fucking flipsand screams and then runs after the car
like is holding onto the car whileshe's driving, and she's like freaking the
fuck out, and then she's tryingto talk to Kathy Harris about what's going
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on, and it's just like Idon't I mean, I'm not a parent,
but at what point do you justsay, like do you just like
shove your kid off to like aboot camp or something. You know,
do you think they were like indenial? Um, well, I'm not
as educated on his family because Ijust haven't done that much research. There's
hardly any research. But it's like, you, you know, if he
(14:33):
was as good a liar as everybodysays he was, how do you know
he wasn't snow and his family toowell, And it's like, Mom,
she's crazy. I would never dosomething like that, which is exactly like
what he did. He even admitsus in his journals about how he was
close to getting caught on various occasionsand then he just had to like lie
(14:54):
through his teeth and like he evencomplimented himself as to the fact that he
was such a good liar. Andyou know, we we briefly talked about
the basement tapes, and in theday of the shooting, Eric was actually
sleeping over at Dylan's house and thenthey videotaped their goodbye. They each said,
like, don't hold her parents accountable. They gave us a slife.
But where the day of the shooting. They day of the shooting, they
(15:16):
woke up early and they each recorded, or maybe it was the night before
because The only reason I asked isbecause we're not. I really did start
reading the first chunk of Sue Klebold'sbook, and she said she heard Dylan
get up, and um, youknow, she walked downstairs to see him
and like norm She's like, normallyI had to get him out of bed
(15:37):
for a class, but he wasalready to go, and he was walking
out the back door or the frontwhatever door, and he was like,
he didn't tell me his day,and all he said was bye, like
in a super sarcastic like yeah,yeah, no, that's exactly what he
did. Yeah. Yeah, Ericwas just sleeping over or they didn't really
even sleep. I don't think.I think they stayed up all night,
just kind of juicing each other up. But the big thing is like in
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their like last video, they weresaying that, you know, people are
going to blame their parents, andthey're not to blame. They gave them
this life, but them being Ericand Dillon, were the ones responsible for
what they did with it. Andyou know what, though they said and
did a lot of shit, obviously, like there was a lot of bullshit,
but I have at the end ofthe day, they made their choices.
(16:19):
Yeah, absolutely you know, anyinkling of what the parents may or
may not have known is irrelevant becauseat the end of the day, they
made their decision and they did whatthey chose to do, and there's nobody
nobody's at fault but those two kids. Right, Remember last episode, we're
talking about how Eric was put onZoloft and then eventually on lux of,
(16:41):
but we weren't sure what lux of? Was it lavoxamine? Lavox I don't
know if for sure, if it'sa lot of vox meane, I'm sure
it is um but it's actually anantidepressant that also suppresses anger. Okay,
so that was also in the book. Okay, let's I guess just kind
of start talking about the day ofthe event. I suppose. So Eric
and Dylan woke up really early early. I believe Eric was staying over at
(17:04):
Dylan's house, and I don't eventhink they slept that night. I think
they just stayed up the entire night. But by five thirty Dylan was out
of the house and like he hadsaid, he said bye to his mom.
Now by the time they pull up, so from now until about eleven
o'clock when they pull up to theschool, they're running in doing things like
they're filling up their pain tanks andthese like big Duffel bags, getting things
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ready, and they pull up intothe parking lot. I can't remember what
side they parked on, but someoneparked in the junior side of the parking
lot on one side of the buildingbecause they did as like a sign,
which is weird for a high schoolif they had a signed parking. Yeah,
with how big this high school sounds. Yeah, like I went to
a pretty big high school. Butwe didn't have a signed parking. You
(17:47):
parked wherever you could, right,I mean we had like different lots like
junior lot and senior lot, butwe just had one big lot. Oh
nice. So Eric parked on oneside. Oh no, I'm sorry,
that's what I'm saying. Holidays.So they had a signed spots and one
of the other students I remember shenoticed that one like there's three spots for
like three people. She knew onecar was there, and then Harrison Klebold's
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cars were because I believe it wasEric, Zach and Dylan all had their
cars together assigned, and Zach wasthere, but Dylan and Eric's were not.
And Dylan I think was parked inthe junior side and Eric was parked
in the senior side. So bylike eleven o'clock, they roll up and
this part I was just kind ofrereading in the book Columbine, and I
(18:32):
don't I don't know like when thescript flipped, but I'll just kind of
read this part. Brooks Brown walkedout for a cigarette and spotted Eric in
the parking lot, in the wronglot. Brooks charged up to confront him
about the test. By the timehe got there, Eric had stepped out
and was pulling out a big,hulking duffel bag. What's the matter with
you, Brooks yelled, we hada test in psychology. Eric was calm
(18:56):
but insistent. It doesn't matter anymore, he said Brooks, like you now,
get out of here, go home. Brooks thought that was strange,
but he shook his head and walkedon away from the school. He goes
from like just fucking hating this dudeto all of a sudden, you know,
here's your opportunity to shoot him,and you're gonna tell him to maybe
by I'm playing god. Absolutely.You know I could kill you right now
(19:18):
if I wanted to, but I'mgonna let you live. I mean,
that's all supposition on my part,but who knows. But you know what
I mean, it fits into thenarrative because when we get to the library,
he didn't kill everyone in the library. I mean, even that's where
most of the people died. Ialso thought was that things were not in
place yet as far as like thebombs and things like that, so I
figured, like if he started shootingthem now, it would just kind of
(19:41):
like ruin the surprise, I suppose, because he had it down to like
a science, like to the minuteof like when the most amount of people
would be in the cafeteria because hethought his bomb was going to go off.
He thought his car bombs were goingto go off. But he was
not very good at making bombs,which is probably a blessing. I remember
he was doing anarchist cookbook stuff,right, Yeah, if you've ever seen
(20:03):
those, I've heard of it.But it's they've they've republished it in the
sense where it's like, I don'twant to say, it's like misleading information,
but it's not the original original fromthe seventies. Yeah, it's like
the softcore that the government will allowyou to have, at least in America.
(20:25):
Some countries, you can get arrestedfor having that book. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't even think i'veever seen that, like a book like
that come in at work. I'mcurious if that would be something that we
would be allowed to resell. There'sthere's a lot of stuff like that which
I imagine places like your place avoid, like the Turner Diaries and shit like
that. If you're familiar with that, I'm not. It's a white supremacy
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story, like it was what's hisname from? Timothy McVeigh had a copy
of it was written by the dudewho's the one of the white zeitgeist assholes
that's like a white supremacist guy.Yeah, okay. So between eleven fourteen
and eleven twenty two, Eric andDylan leave the cars and walk into the
school's cafeteria and they're each carrying verylarge Duffel bags that contain enough explosives to
(21:14):
kill the majority of the people shouldthey go off. At eleven fourteen,
the school custodian goes into the videoroom to change the surveillance videotape. At
eleven seventeen, after placing the twotwenty pound pro Paine tanks, like those
fuckers are heavy. Eric and Dylango back out to student parking lot into
(21:34):
their respective cars and wait for thebombs to explode. Okay, so from
the cars they have a clear viewof the cafeteria area. Based on comments
Eric and Dylan made in their homemadevideotapes, the investigation determined the two plan
to shoot any surviving students able toescape from the cafeteria. This is actually
(21:55):
from Yeah, this is from CNAabout eleven nineteen, So a lunch is
already in progress. Both six hundredstudents are in the cafeteria having sat down
gotten their lunch, and at aroundeleven nineteen, witnesses here one of the
suspects say go, go go,and then Eric and Dylan pull out their
(22:15):
shotguns and then they begin shooting semiautomatic weapons. From that they were hitting
in their trench coats because they werewearing their long trench coats because they were
part of the trench coat mafia.When't really they weren't, but the media
would totally latch onto that. Yeah, on the head of Tech nine right
(22:37):
or carbing. Yeah. The firstgun shots were fired toward the west doors.
They kill Rachel Scott and injure RichardCastillo, who are students. Rachel
and Richard had been sitting on thegrass eating their lunch outside the school's west
upper entrence, near the north sideof the library. So there's like five
(23:00):
students outside that got hurt. SoRachel and Danny were both killed outside.
So Danny M. Burrow was killed. We apologize for butchering people's names.
Yeah, I am so sorry,guys. So students Danny Roebar Roe Burrow,
Sean Graves, and Lance kirkland Umwere just outside the door in the
(23:21):
school cafeteria on their way to thesmoker's pit at at Clement Park and they
were hit by gunfire. And atfirst it's like I remember reading in Columbine
and I don't know if it wasthese two or if it was like two
other people, but like they thoughtit, like everyone thought that this was
a joke. They always feel likepaintball paintball guns. Like there's a teacher
(23:41):
that's like, oh, they're shootinga video or something. It's kids pointing
a baby gun at me. Andshe only realized that was a real gun
when she looked and saw the holein the glass. Yeah, how oblivious,
yea. But yeah, during thiswhole time. It took a very
long time before people realized like whatwas actually going on. And so with
also with this being like the firstmajor televised massacre, huge amounts of misinformation.
(24:10):
Danny shot and killed practically instantly.Sean Graves. He does live.
Yeah, Um, he gets shotin the back, but he will end
up regaining his ability to walk.No where. The janitor pulled him near
the door and told him yeah,and someone students stepped on him yeah yeah,
(24:32):
and then with sorry, yeah yeah. I remember reading that yeah with
Lance Kirkland, though his is justfucking tragic too. He got shot like
five times, and he gets shotand then he sees someone he's laying there,
and then he says someone and he'slike can you help me? Yeah,
and then he's like, yeah,I'll help you, and it's fucking
(24:55):
Dylan with his shotgun. He shootshim in the face and ants ends up
surviving, and he like his wholelike left side, like ear, that
whole portion got kind of shot off. And when you see him today,
he looks like you can tell thathe went through something tragic. But I
don't think he would ever know thathe had a shotgun go off in his
(25:18):
face, Like, I haven't lookedup any of the as adults the kids
have lived. Yeah, it's crazy. With last year being the twentieth anniversary,
they did like a lot of twentyyear anniversary documentaries and things like that,
which we're really just interesting to listento and watch and kind of see
and hear how everyone's doing. Sothose were the people that were outside.
(25:42):
Now, Okay, so already wehave Rachel Scott who's dead, and then
Danny Roeber who's also outside dead.Now unfortunately, their bodies will remain outside
for twenty eight hours. And whenthe images were so it took about thirty
minutes from when the first shot happenedto the police being notified for the police
(26:04):
coming there, for the media tofinally come and do that or to be
there, So it took about thirtyminutes. And then the media gets there.
Now the media has like helicopters andeverything going around eventually, and then
when you see like a body onthe sidewalk, that's Danny and they it
was really hard to read how whenthe swat teams the EMTs try to go
(26:29):
in to like get Lance and getSewan out. As soon as they realized
that Rachel, Like they even pickedup Rachel, but as soon as they
realized that she was dead, theyleft her on the grass. And then
as soon as they realized that Dannywas dead, they just left him.
And they were outside for twenty eighthours. That is pretty horrendous. But
at the same time, you gottaimagine they're like, well, we can't
(26:52):
help them. We gotta move,like, we gotta we gotta find we
gotta look for people that are alot right. I understand like the whole
triosh, but I get that,but it is inexcusable to keep bodies outside
in the elements for twenty hours andnot even cover them up. They didn't
even cover them up. This wholething was a complete fucking shit show.
(27:17):
And like, I mean, I'mnot even a parent, but if I
was a parent, I would befucking pissed. So the five students are
on the grass west of the stairsand they're shot at and they begin to
run from the gunfire. Michael Johnsonsuffers gunshot wounds but is able to reach
the outdoor athletic storage shed, wherehe takes cover with others. Mark Taylor
(27:40):
suffers a debilitating gunshot wound and fallsto the ground. Unable to flee with
the others, Dylan goes back inside, down the stairs to an area outside
the cafeteria and shoots Danny again atclose range, killing him instantly. He
also shoots Lance Kirkland again, thistime at close strange, but Lance survives.
(28:02):
Dylan briefly enters the side entrance tothe cafeteria and stands just inside the
doorway trying to figure out maybe whythe bombs haven't exploded, because by this
time, like the two big bombsshould have gone off, and so finally
they're like, well, what thefuck's going on? Then Eric shoots down
the stairwall stairways, hitting Anne Mariewhole caulter. So Anne Marie is shot
(28:29):
multiple times and she ends up becomingparalyzed, and actually her mother ends up
committing suicide about six months after theevents, but to say she was diagnosed
by polar Her mother was dealing withthe depression for many years. But this
was obviously I think a big trippingfactor. And then this is when witnesses
(28:51):
here, one of the gunmen shout, this is what we always wanted to
do. This is awesome. Soall the shooting that happened outside with the
five being shot, Rachel and Dannydying, and then Amrie and Mark Taylor
being shot and paralyzed. That happenedwithin the span of five minutes, so
(29:11):
twenty four after twenty five after hewas shooting it, they were shooting with
sheriff's deputy. Yeah, Jefferson CountySheriff's Deputy. Neil Gardner was the community
resource officer at Columbine High School.He has just finished his lunch while sitting
in his patrol car at the student'ssmoker's pit when he receives a call from
(29:32):
the school custodian on the school radioand he's needed back at the back lot
of the school. So this isat eleven twenty two nine one one call
from the Columbine School student reports agirl injured in the south lower parking lot
of the high school. I thinkshe's paralyzed, the caller tells the dispatch,
And that's at eleven twenty three.And that's actually one of the sub
(29:53):
chapters in the book, is afemale down. Deputy Major is on his
way. Major that has that's amotorcycle cop yes, yes, So when
the call goes out, all thesecars, all these local municipalities just spring
forward and come forward. So likethe response time was really good, but
(30:14):
they didn't go inside. They didn'tgo inside for three hours. It's one
of those things with cops where it'slike like it's it's one of those things
where it's like, I'm one ofpreface this by saying cops have a very
dangerous job. Yes, absolutely,it's one of those things where I sometimes
they don't always get their respect that'sdue. But there's a lot of reasons
(30:36):
for that. So the main fuckup here, if I'm gonna if I'm
gonna say there's a fuck up,it was the sheriff, the county sheriff,
because he was the one that wasquote unquote in charge. And he's
not a cop, he's an electedofficial. And once the Metro Police found
out that Sheriff Stone was going tobe in charge, they're like, are
(30:57):
you fucking kidding me? So he'sa big proponent, And imagine him,
folks as Donald Trump. He is. Yeah. When you read if you
go through and you read Columbine,he's the person who is talking to the
media when he should not be talkingto the media. He's giving people,
he's giving false information saying that therewas three shooters and that there's like twenty
(31:19):
five killed and like all this crazyfucking information that he had no basis to
be giving. So he is thatDonald Trump of this whole fucking operation.
He and his under person both electedofficials, neither one of them actual cops.
But like what I was saying before, Yeah, going back, is
that, like, you know,you hear about these situations where like was
(31:41):
it Sandy Hook I think, orwas it the Parkland school shooting where the
cops didn't go inside. The copsshowed up and they waited for other people
to come to before they went.And it's like I think people have sued
various police departments and like there's beenlost. There's been like court rulings that
say police are not obligated to protect, like to help you the fuck.
(32:05):
Yes, Like they're like they're notThey're not under obligation to put their lives
on the line to save somebody.Yeah, this is after the Parkland shooting.
Um. This is from the SouthFlorida Sun Sentinel. A federal judge
says Broward Schools and Sheriff's office hadno legal duty to protect students during the
shooting at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School. US District Judge Beth Bloom dismissed a
(32:31):
suit filed by fifteen students who claimedthey were traumatized by the crisis in February.
The suit names six defendants, includingthe Broward School District and the Bards
County Sheriff's Office, including that copyou know there was like six weeks from
retirement, you know nothing, Bloom. The judge Bloom ruled that the two
(32:51):
agencies had no constitutional duty to protectstudents who are not in custody Jesus Christ.
The claim arises from the actions ofshooter Nicholas Cruz, third party and
not a state actor. Thus thecritical question of the court analyzes. Thus,
the critical question the court analyzes iswhether defendants had a constitutional duty to
protect plaintiffs from the actions of crews. As previously stated, for such a
(33:15):
duty to exist on the part ofthe defendants, plaintiffs would have to be
considered in custody, for example,prisoners or patients of a mental ward.
So because they hadn't arrested him yet, they were under no obligation to protect
the students from it's shooting them.Well, it sounds like the way I
took that is that the students themselveswould have to have been arrested by the
(33:37):
police in order to get their protection. But you gotta remember too, this
is a newspaper article, and theyprobably are trying to, oh for sure,
trying to push up a story thatlooks big but bottom line, and
Parkland is one of the more recentones that I remember. But that's not
the first time I've heard that thatpolice are not under any legal obligation to
protect people, like to put theirlives at risk now people, But the
(34:00):
whole like protect and serve thing though, Like it's just oh god, that's
this is a that's for a wholefucking other episode. Well that's why.
It's like it's a very touchy subject. No matter how you look at it,
it's not it's it's not black andwhite. It's definitely a great topic,
right, Okay, So I rememberI wrote down some thoughts while I
was reading this, and so oneof the things that I found interesting is
(34:23):
that there is a difference between hostagesituations and non hostage situations. So when
the events of Columbine were first unraveling, people were saying that it was a
hostage situation and to the normal person, you would think that humans held at
gunpoint equals hostages, but that's apparentlynot true. In a hostage situation,
(34:50):
the takers know that they can onlyachieve their goal if they keep the hostages
alive, so they will act rationallyright, whereas non hostage gunmen do not.
They don't act rational. They tendto act in an emotional and other
an often self destructive way, andwill typically not issue a demand. In
(35:15):
these situations, the murder suicide outcomeis incredibly high. So it's how these
two situations are handled that makes itvery important for the FBI to know what
they're dealing with. When you havehostages, the police force is highly visible
and they make the gunmen work foreverything, whereas in a non hostage situation,
(35:37):
the police keep a very low profileand avoid the implications that anyone but
the gunmen is in control. Withhostages, the goal is to lower expectations.
Non hostage crisis is to lower emotions. What's interesting is that when this
happened, there is a very notableFBI agent who is infinite for his hostage
(36:00):
negotiations. Like he worked in Waco, he did a lot of other things,
and he was actually living in Coloradoand he had a son who was
going to Columbine. So when thiswhole thing happened, he drove up and
he offered his services. And becausea lot of times, I guess the
local police officers don't usually like whenthe FBI gets involved, so he like
offered his services, like, doyou want my assistance here? And then
(36:22):
they were like, yes, absolutelyso Agent Fuseler. He was the FBI
agent. Who oh fusel Okay,yes, fusel Okay. It's so funny.
You've been looking for the stupid name. You fucking knew it, And
as soon as you said it,I'm like, wait, no, that's
not right, ridiculous? Is that? Well, at least you you knewho
I was talking about, because it'sinteresting because we talked briefly about Waco last
(36:45):
episode, and he was the hostagenegotiation for Waco, and we know how
well that ended. Oh but butwhat that ended. They did not intend
for what happened, right, Idon't think anybody could see. I mean,
that's a whole difference. Yeah,that's a whole different right, boy,
(37:05):
We've already been talking for damn nearover half an hour now and we're
only within like the first ten minutes. It's pretty ridiculous how much when you
start looking into such a brief periodof time, right, Well, I
mean we're talking about it twenty years, twenty years a year and it's you
know, forty five minutes that impactedmillions of people and still does to this
(37:28):
day. Absolutely were like, Imean, because we're talking about what happened
around eleven twenty five in the morning, right, Yeah, I means we've
only been we've we're talking about thelast hour, whatever half hour, we've
been talking about ten minutes worth ofsomebody's day. Right, It's just crazy,
which I think is why we're gonnabe doing a part one and part
two on this. Oh so Ithink we're going to be probably wrapping this
(37:49):
one up because what I want todo in the next part is talk about
the end tail of it and thenthe library, and then when the SWAT
finally goes in, Yeah, whichis going to be you know, it's
like, unfortunately, we're just likebuilding, building, building, and forward
to Yeah. I guess, yeah, So, I guess just to briefly
recap, within the first five minutesof Eric and Dylan actually firing and opening
(38:15):
up their guns, at their school. They've shot and killed two people and
wounded about five others. At thispoint, the fire alarms I don't believe
have gone off yet. There havemaybe been one or two pipe bombs,
but none of the biggest, bigexplosions have happened. It's crazy to think
for me to think that they threwa couple of their pipe bombs and that
(38:37):
most of the kids in the schoolwere just sitting in class right like that.
I don't you know what I mean, There's just something about that that
I can't wrap my head away.It blows our mind because of because of
what happened and the reaction that thekids had and how it was handled.
This is why Columbine is considered thegold standard for house schools and people respond
to the stuff. Now, Yeah, schools across the nation have a zero
(38:59):
tolerance policy. I think that's probablya good place to wrap up, don't
you think? You know what?I agree, But you got to admit
there's really no good place to wrapthis. No, no, And you
know it's one of those We're talkingabout this because of the impact on us
personally. But I would like tosay to the people that have been affected
(39:19):
by this, you know what Imean, this there's really enough like what
do you say? There's nothing tosay, and that's that's It's like,
that's why it's one of those Thisis a conversation that's not a comfortable conversation,
no, but it is one thatI think is worth having. Well,
it just goes with death and tobegin with like it's they're uncomfortable conversations
because like, no one wants toNo one wants to talk about someone's dead
(39:43):
loved one, right because they feellike it's gonna by bringing them up,
it's gonna cause pain, when inreality, most often it does not.
I mean, yes, they're gonnacry, they're gonna be emotional, but
that's to be expected. But ifanything, that makes people uncomfortable exactly because
we don't know how to process thatand we just grew up in that society
where emotions for the most part arenot Like I hate to go back to
(40:06):
coronavirus, but one of my coworkers, his seventy one year old uncle
died and his twenty two year oldcousin, who he said was on his
way to the NFL, both diedof this within the last twenty two year
old two year old really, Ohmy god. I don't think he's from
Wisconsin. I think he's from downsouth. But but it's like, just
you know what I mean, it'sjust it's just one of those things where
(40:29):
it's just the next few months Ithink are going to at least I think
this has really brought people back toreality in certain ways. Yeah, Like
we just kind of find things tooccupy our time and look for things to
be outraged about, and it's likepeople are dying. It's I don't know,
it's not good. But if there'sa silver lining in it, I
(40:51):
hope that it's how people engage oneanother. I hope so too. I
mean I find myself being furloughed andbasically just staying at home with the exception
of you know, going to thegrocery store to your place. I don't
watch the news so much. Imean I occasionally want check in, you
know, around five o'clock or sixo'clock to get like an update, but
I feel so detached from like what'sgoing on that almost doesn't seem like like
(41:15):
this is actually happening, right,So this is this weird thing, But
I think this is where we're gonnaI know, heavy sigh, Yes,
very much. So. This isa very task mentally task, which is
exactly why I just want to likeget this down and over with I can.
I don't know. I do notblame you. And it's so weird
because I feel like we've talked aboutso much in regards to Columbine, but
(41:37):
I feel like we haven't talked aboutanything. Well, it's one of those
words, I mean, like thehillside straight. I mean there's a few
name when you say something right,like it puts a image in your head,
right, Jeffrey Dahmer, Right,Marilyn Manson, right, or Marilyn
Charles Manson. Well, remind mewe got to talk about Marilyn Manson in
the next one. Yeah, Columbinenine to eleven. O. J.
(42:00):
Simpson. Right. There's when youlike, you know, there's just thoughts
and feelings behind it. When yousay the hillstrides, hillside stranglers, you're
like, I've heard that before,right, and you have a thing about
it. But this is different,right, some of it because of the
just the media coverage for years andyears later. Right. Well, I
(42:21):
think this is so different too,And I know I keep bringing this up,
but this is like the first thingthat you and I have covered,
that we've both lived through, weboth remember where we were. AnyWho U
So, yeah, guys, Ithink this is where we're gonna stop for
today. Let me know what youguys are thinking about so much about the
series so far, I realized thisisn't This has been very different from a
(42:43):
lot of the things you've done inthe past. Yeah, but it's just
it feels different very much, so, which is why I think I'm a
little I don't want to say I'mtight, but I think this is why
I'm getting so like emotional about itand so stressed out about it because I'm
not in control because I don't havethe scripts, and you get you and
(43:04):
I are going back and forth,so it's just a whole bunch of things
that are going on. I'm reallyhoping that from next month in May,
it's going to be a lot easier. Um, it's definitely. I feel
like it's gonna be a lot morescripted going forward next month, just because
there will be more concise things forme to write about, Whereas there's just
so much information here about Columbine,especially twenty years after the fact, like
(43:29):
the reports themselves, like after thereport was finally released. It was like
close to one hundred thousand pages,like ninety thousand things, yeah I can
imagine or like Oklahoma City bombing.So but yeah, Thank you guys so
much for listening. Really appreciate allall of you guys, you know,
just taking the time to listen.Please continue to share Murders my Sign with
(43:52):
your friends any way they can besure to share Murders my Sign with anyone
you can any way that you can. You can find murder is my Sign
on your favorite podcasting platforms or yourfavorite podcasting app. You can always connect
with me on social media Twitter,Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook all at
Jordi Death That's jo R. Doyou want death? Or you can always
(44:15):
email the show directly at Murder ismy Sign podcast at gmail dot com.
If you want to go above andbeyond and enjoying the boneyard, you can
do so about patreon dot com factsslash Murders my Sign. You can become
a bone Yard Backer or a Deathheadjust like my fabulous patrons Jake, Holly,
Michelle and Crystal. Thank you guysagain so much for your continue to
(44:35):
support. It really means a lotto me, other than that again.
You know I say it for thelast couple of episodes. Please make sure
you're taking care of yourself. You'restaying home if you can, washing your
hands, don't be nice to washyour hands. And career of cough A
lot good stuff. But until nexttime, guys, take care of yourself,
(45:00):
each other, and rest in peace.
This show may contain adult language andthemes. Listener discretion is advised. With
that out of the way, let'sstart the show. Now. You're listening
(00:38):
to the Murder is My Sign podcast, the only true crime astrology podcast,
and I'm your host, Jordi Death, here to let your way through the
true crime astrology storm and in studiowith me again as always, I guess
is the last couple episodes at leastis mister Kyle, Hey, how are
you doing? So glad that you'reable to join us yet again? I
mean, at this point, it'salmost like you're become my co host,
(01:00):
which is pretty freaking cool. Iat least I think, Yeah, I'm
digging it. Yeah, I'm too, especially it's it's definitely helping at least
me get through this particular batch ofepisodes with Columbine. And I know we're
kind of talking about this before westarted recording, but I've personally been kind
of struggling getting through this because Idon't know, I think I'm over identifying
(01:23):
with it a little too much ofI'm being honest, but then also I
think it's just so over identifying withwhat with having been so young and living
through that and then also experiencing itmyself as far as being out lockdown and
being and like in active shooting situationsand things like that. And then also
these kids were like around our age. I mean, okay, yeah,
(01:44):
this took place in nineteen ninety nine, but it means it's within our times,
band, It's it's within the realmof possibility of actually helping happening to
us. Whereas like you know,when we're when we were covering um Hillside
Stranglers, that was like in theseventies, and that makes perfect completely like
different. And also that was likea serial killer where it was just like
(02:05):
over the course of time, andwhereas it's just I mean, we're gonna
get into this a little bit toowith part two of the series. But
like reading reading Dylan's journal and readingEric's website, it's just I can I
personally empathize a lot more with Dylanbecause he was way more depressed and stuff,
(02:27):
and like, I'm a person whoalso writes in her journal all the
time. Eric was just a fuckingpsychotic, hateful bastard. But I don't
know, it's just it's it's it'sit's always, it's just it's just hard
and plus with everything else that's goingon in the fucking world, it's just
been you know, a shitty,shitty stress stress or stress show and a
(02:51):
fucking snow today. It's it's Aprilthe goddamn ninth, and it fucking snowed
a little bit today. Wisconsin,Jesus, it's like mother Nature's on.
You just have the reset that timeto take me to that whisco disco.
I've never heard that before. That'sfunny. Bubbles Wisconsin Discotheque. Nice,
take me to that whisco disco.That's awesome, man. You know,
(03:15):
I still have to see that yougave me and I listened to them like
whenever they pop up, and they'rereally good. So Bubbles Ronica people,
if you haven't heard them, golook them up. All right, So
last episode in part one, wekind of talked about, you know,
our memories of the event of whenCalumbine happened, and then also what kind
(03:38):
of I guess prompted Eric and Dylanand who they were and stuff like that.
Now, Eric was definitely the mastermindof that was I distinctly remember that
not being clear. Yeah, manyfor quite a long time after. I
mean, obviously there was a lotof informations. Yeah, that came out
(04:01):
later, but just at the time, I distinctly remember that it was just
two kids who were fed up withlight, fed up with life and the
people around them. Right. Butit's only after time that you started to
realize that it was clear. Itwas clearly there was one kid who I
think he was more suicidal than homicidal, right, and that was Dylan,
(04:23):
and he was following somebody who hada magnanimous like not magnanimous, but just
a huge personality and somebody he couldlatch onto. Yeah, I'm so glad
that you brought that up, becauseI actually just finished reading Dave Collin's book
at Columbine and I took a bunchof notes here, and one of them
(04:47):
he talked about how Dylan's personality andEric's personally fed into each other. And
I know we'll probably talk about thisin the next episode, like when we
get into the compatibility astrologically speeding.But um, there's a lot of us,
like one person's the one person's thealpha, and the other person's sort
of like the followers kind of,wasn't it Lake and the Lake and ing
(05:13):
two. We'll be getting into thoseguys. I think next month, Oh,
you're actually doing them. Yeah,I have a The calendar behind me
has all the people we're doing thishere, so but you have to go
back month five months. But yeah, they're definitely on my list. I
don't know when we're gonna get them. It really will depend on if I
can get like their complete natal chartinformation. That means the British couple with
the kids, oh wests, wasn'tit rose maryn Fred west One was more
(05:36):
like the followers than well. Imean that's that you're you're going to find
that in everything, right, theinstigator and then the propellant. So in
David Cohen's book, he talks aboutthe dinads. I think that's how you
pronoun diad d y a d.So there are murderous pairs who feed off
each other. They account for onlya fraction of mass murderers. Partnerships time
(06:00):
to be asymmetrical. You have anangry, erratic depressive and a sadistic psychopath
that make a combustible pair. Thepsychopath is in control and the hot headed
sidekick can sustain the excitement leading upto the kill. So in the book
it goes pretty in depth about psychopathsand how Eric Harris with a true blue
(06:23):
psychopath. He ticked off everything flyingcolors. It's weird though, because even
for somebody who's almost eighteen, Idon't know he was eighteen. He was
eighteen, so yes, he wasvery young. They really, at least
from the training I've had, it'sabout a decade at date now, but
I new know they don't like tolabel that like that early, even though
(06:43):
some of the signs you see themgoing back like in early childhood. Yeah.
Yeah, And and Dave Colin evenlike talks about that about how I
feel like this is going to bemore like a book review. But seriously,
guys, if you're interested in Columbineand you really want the in depth
scoop all means, please go pickup a copy of Columbine. Came out
ten years after the event, andit is the end all be all.
(07:08):
I think I gotta say, I'veI've read a little bit here and there,
and even though when we're done withthis, I'm probably it's going to
go on my list of books toread. Yeah, because it was staggering
to me how much like I wasjust looking for general information. Yeah,
I just kept right right. Andthen I think That's why I was like
so kind of like frustrated in likethe first episode because I was just trying
(07:30):
to skim through it. But like, it's not a book you can skim
through. It's a book that's goingto suck you in. And the way
it's structured, yeah, it doesn'tgo in chronological order, so to speak.
It jumps around. It's very butit jumps around in a way that
makes sense because it's kind of likea time machine where it goes forwards and
backwards, but it's it's topical,I suppose. And he just released a
(07:53):
new book on I don't know ifit was on Sandy Hook or Marjorie Stoneman
Douglas. I'm not familiar with thesecond person. Marjorie Stoneman Douglas was the
twenty seventeen Florida shooting oh at thehigh school. Yeah, yeah, seventeen
kids died in that one. Yeah, but the no because everyone calls its
(08:13):
Stoneman Douglass or whatever, um,but in that one, they actually captured
the shooter. He did not killhimself. So kind of going back to
what we're talking about, about,like the psychopathist, Dylan was obviously the
depressive here. He was very unhappywith his life. And it's interesting because
in all of his journals up untillike the like the month or so leading
(08:35):
up to the attack, he waswriting about love, about how he loved
the idea of love. He wantedlove, he wanted someone to love him
back, and he was becoming veryobsessive about this girl in school called Harriet.
And I don't know if that itwas her actual name or if they
assigned her a different name in thebook. I don't remember that. But
Dylan was all about love, likethe unrecointed love, very much a poetic
(08:58):
so I feel, whereas Eric wasall about the hate. Oh yeah,
he fucking hated everything and everyone.He thought he was owed the world and
if you crossed him, you wereon his list and he was going to
fucking kill you. And it's crazytoo because, like, so this was
in nineteen ninety nine, so likein ninety seven and ninety eight, the
(09:18):
Internet was still fairly new. Peopleall had like their AOL addresses, their
ims and things like that. Ithink mine was like punk Demon forty eight
back in the day. But atleast you're consistent love, yeah, pretty
much. It wasn't until I wasin high school that everything became Jordy death.
Eric was very vocal about his hatredand his lists and stuff, and
(09:43):
there is this person to keep bringingup Brooks Brown and the Brown family,
and originally Brooks and Dylan were prettyclose, and then he did something to
really piss off Eric, and Ericjust fucking flipped to the point where he
started in Brooks and putting on hislist, like he actually wrote this on
(10:03):
his website like I'm going to killyou, I hate you, blah blah
blah. And someone saw this andreported it to the police, and they
wrote it down and they printed offthe pages. I think I read that
in a Soup Cleveland book because Iwas I skimmed that one too, not
as I'm probably not gonna go backand read that one, you know what,
(10:24):
compared to this one. But Iremember her like she was describing the
bomb squad and the SWAT team aregoing through her house and they're standing in
the drive away her and her eldestson. Another lady in the neighborhood was
like, oh, you know,and something about oh you know, this
(10:45):
hair is kid his website and shegoes, why why didn't you tell me
he had a violent website, solike people, and the people knew it
wasn't like this came completely out ofthem, right at least the anger on
his part right well in the hairis too like the Harris family to this
day have not spoken, have notsaid anything, have not given any interviews,
(11:07):
whereas the Kleiboldt's have been very forthcoming, very honest. And I mean
I started skimming Sue Kleiboldt's book aswell, but I think after reading all
of Columbine, I really don't feela need to read that, which might
be a little shitty, but atthis point in time, it's like I've
gotten what I need to. Istill understand, and you know, my
(11:30):
heart still goes out to her andTom and as well as Kathy and Wayne
Harris, you know, to haveto live with this because this is a
big thing they talked about in thebook too, is that now that Eric
and Dillon were dead, the parentswere the next one line to get blamed.
Yeah, and you know what,this might be a rational but to
some extent they're not to blame becauseat the end of the day, what
(11:56):
people do or their own decisions,right, But you gotta wonder about some
of the stuff right, Well,because like Wayne Harris who was ex military,
right he was named Air Force.Yeah, well, I don't really
know if it matters what branch youhave. I mean, they were all
taking very active parts in their kids'lives and stuff, even like when they
were going through like the whole dayVersion program, Like they showed up in
(12:16):
front of the judge with their sons, and the judge actually made a point
to point out that, like,this is the first time I've seen dads
with their sons here. Eric wassuch a brilliant liar and such a complete
socio psychopath. He pulled the woolover everyone's eyes. You know. I'm
thinking that's why, rightly or wrongly, the Klebolds have reasons to talk publicly,
(12:39):
because I think even a lay personthat he does a tiny little bit
of investigation could see, yeah,he was there, but he was not
the primer, right if honestly,if anyone's to blame it any of this,
it is Jeff co Sheriff Department.They fucked the pooch on this.
(13:01):
They did a whole cover up becausewhen Eric's website was reported, that was
like the first instance that he wasactually written down and in records, and
then he and Dylan gotten in trouble. They stole like car parts and things
like that from a van, yeah, and which got them into the diversion
program and stuff like that. Andthen Eric was getting guns and getting all
(13:24):
the stuff her pipe bombs, andthe Brown family kept calling the cops on
Eric Harris all the fucking time forevery little threat and things like that.
And there's just like one instance whereI think Eric was getting to like a
snowball fight, like just like akind of fun like little you know,
squal fight between kids and Judy BrownBrooks. Brown's mom comes and picks up
(13:48):
Brooks and says something to Eric saying, you know, I'm going over to
your house to talk to your motherbecause he threw a snowball at her car
or something, and he fucking flipsand screams and then runs after the car
like is holding onto the car whileshe's driving, and she's like freaking the
fuck out, and then she's tryingto talk to Kathy Harris about what's going
(14:09):
on, and it's just like Idon't I mean, I'm not a parent,
but at what point do you justsay, like do you just like
shove your kid off to like aboot camp or something. You know,
do you think they were like indenial? Um, well, I'm not
as educated on his family because Ijust haven't done that much research. There's
hardly any research. But it's like, you, you know, if he
(14:33):
was as good a liar as everybodysays he was, how do you know
he wasn't snow and his family toowell, And it's like, Mom,
she's crazy. I would never dosomething like that, which is exactly like
what he did. He even admitsus in his journals about how he was
close to getting caught on various occasionsand then he just had to like lie
(14:54):
through his teeth and like he evencomplimented himself as to the fact that he
was such a good liar. Andyou know, we we briefly talked about
the basement tapes, and in theday of the shooting, Eric was actually
sleeping over at Dylan's house and thenthey videotaped their goodbye. They each said,
like, don't hold her parents accountable. They gave us a slife.
But where the day of the shooting. They day of the shooting, they
(15:16):
woke up early and they each recorded, or maybe it was the night before
because The only reason I asked isbecause we're not. I really did start
reading the first chunk of Sue Klebold'sbook, and she said she heard Dylan
get up, and um, youknow, she walked downstairs to see him
and like norm She's like, normallyI had to get him out of bed
(15:37):
for a class, but he wasalready to go, and he was walking
out the back door or the frontwhatever door, and he was like,
he didn't tell me his day,and all he said was bye, like
in a super sarcastic like yeah,yeah, no, that's exactly what he
did. Yeah. Yeah, Ericwas just sleeping over or they didn't really
even sleep. I don't think.I think they stayed up all night,
just kind of juicing each other up. But the big thing is like in
(15:58):
their like last video, they weresaying that, you know, people are
going to blame their parents, andthey're not to blame. They gave them
this life, but them being Ericand Dillon, were the ones responsible for
what they did with it. Andyou know what, though they said and
did a lot of shit, obviously, like there was a lot of bullshit,
but I have at the end ofthe day, they made their choices.
(16:19):
Yeah, absolutely you know, anyinkling of what the parents may or
may not have known is irrelevant becauseat the end of the day, they
made their decision and they did whatthey chose to do, and there's nobody
nobody's at fault but those two kids. Right, Remember last episode, we're
talking about how Eric was put onZoloft and then eventually on lux of,
(16:41):
but we weren't sure what lux of? Was it lavoxamine? Lavox I don't
know if for sure, if it'sa lot of vox meane, I'm sure
it is um but it's actually anantidepressant that also suppresses anger. Okay,
so that was also in the book. Okay, let's I guess just kind
of start talking about the day ofthe event. I suppose. So Eric
and Dylan woke up really early early. I believe Eric was staying over at
(17:04):
Dylan's house, and I don't eventhink they slept that night. I think
they just stayed up the entire night. But by five thirty Dylan was out
of the house and like he hadsaid, he said bye to his mom.
Now by the time they pull up, so from now until about eleven
o'clock when they pull up to theschool, they're running in doing things like
they're filling up their pain tanks andthese like big Duffel bags, getting things
(17:26):
ready, and they pull up intothe parking lot. I can't remember what
side they parked on, but someoneparked in the junior side of the parking
lot on one side of the buildingbecause they did as like a sign,
which is weird for a high schoolif they had a signed parking. Yeah,
with how big this high school sounds. Yeah, like I went to
a pretty big high school. Butwe didn't have a signed parking. You
(17:47):
parked wherever you could, right,I mean we had like different lots like
junior lot and senior lot, butwe just had one big lot. Oh
nice. So Eric parked on oneside. Oh no, I'm sorry,
that's what I'm saying. Holidays.So they had a signed spots and one
of the other students I remember shenoticed that one like there's three spots for
like three people. She knew onecar was there, and then Harrison Klebold's
(18:11):
cars were because I believe it wasEric, Zach and Dylan all had their
cars together assigned, and Zach wasthere, but Dylan and Eric's were not.
And Dylan I think was parked inthe junior side and Eric was parked
in the senior side. So bylike eleven o'clock, they roll up and
this part I was just kind ofrereading in the book Columbine, and I
(18:32):
don't I don't know like when thescript flipped, but I'll just kind of
read this part. Brooks Brown walkedout for a cigarette and spotted Eric in
the parking lot, in the wronglot. Brooks charged up to confront him
about the test. By the timehe got there, Eric had stepped out
and was pulling out a big,hulking duffel bag. What's the matter with
you, Brooks yelled, we hada test in psychology. Eric was calm
(18:56):
but insistent. It doesn't matter anymore, he said Brooks, like you now,
get out of here, go home. Brooks thought that was strange,
but he shook his head and walkedon away from the school. He goes
from like just fucking hating this dudeto all of a sudden, you know,
here's your opportunity to shoot him,and you're gonna tell him to maybe
by I'm playing god. Absolutely.You know I could kill you right now
(19:18):
if I wanted to, but I'mgonna let you live. I mean,
that's all supposition on my part,but who knows. But you know what
I mean, it fits into thenarrative because when we get to the library,
he didn't kill everyone in the library. I mean, even that's where
most of the people died. Ialso thought was that things were not in
place yet as far as like thebombs and things like that, so I
figured, like if he started shootingthem now, it would just kind of
(19:41):
like ruin the surprise, I suppose, because he had it down to like
a science, like to the minuteof like when the most amount of people
would be in the cafeteria because hethought his bomb was going to go off.
He thought his car bombs were goingto go off. But he was
not very good at making bombs,which is probably a blessing. I remember
he was doing anarchist cookbook stuff,right, Yeah, if you've ever seen
(20:03):
those, I've heard of it.But it's they've they've republished it in the
sense where it's like, I don'twant to say, it's like misleading information,
but it's not the original original fromthe seventies. Yeah, it's like
the softcore that the government will allowyou to have, at least in America.
(20:25):
Some countries, you can get arrestedfor having that book. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't even think i'veever seen that, like a book like
that come in at work. I'mcurious if that would be something that we
would be allowed to resell. There'sthere's a lot of stuff like that which
I imagine places like your place avoid, like the Turner Diaries and shit like
that. If you're familiar with that, I'm not. It's a white supremacy
(20:48):
story, like it was what's hisname from? Timothy McVeigh had a copy
of it was written by the dudewho's the one of the white zeitgeist assholes
that's like a white supremacist guy.Yeah, okay. So between eleven fourteen
and eleven twenty two, Eric andDylan leave the cars and walk into the
school's cafeteria and they're each carrying verylarge Duffel bags that contain enough explosives to
(21:14):
kill the majority of the people shouldthey go off. At eleven fourteen,
the school custodian goes into the videoroom to change the surveillance videotape. At
eleven seventeen, after placing the twotwenty pound pro Paine tanks, like those
fuckers are heavy. Eric and Dylango back out to student parking lot into
(21:34):
their respective cars and wait for thebombs to explode. Okay, so from
the cars they have a clear viewof the cafeteria area. Based on comments
Eric and Dylan made in their homemadevideotapes, the investigation determined the two plan
to shoot any surviving students able toescape from the cafeteria. This is actually
(21:55):
from Yeah, this is from CNAabout eleven nineteen, So a lunch is
already in progress. Both six hundredstudents are in the cafeteria having sat down
gotten their lunch, and at aroundeleven nineteen, witnesses here one of the
suspects say go, go go,and then Eric and Dylan pull out their
(22:15):
shotguns and then they begin shooting semiautomatic weapons. From that they were hitting
in their trench coats because they werewearing their long trench coats because they were
part of the trench coat mafia.When't really they weren't, but the media
would totally latch onto that. Yeah, on the head of Tech nine right
(22:37):
or carbing. Yeah. The firstgun shots were fired toward the west doors.
They kill Rachel Scott and injure RichardCastillo, who are students. Rachel
and Richard had been sitting on thegrass eating their lunch outside the school's west
upper entrence, near the north sideof the library. So there's like five
(23:00):
students outside that got hurt. SoRachel and Danny were both killed outside.
So Danny M. Burrow was killed. We apologize for butchering people's names.
Yeah, I am so sorry,guys. So students Danny Roebar Roe Burrow,
Sean Graves, and Lance kirkland Umwere just outside the door in the
(23:21):
school cafeteria on their way to thesmoker's pit at at Clement Park and they
were hit by gunfire. And atfirst it's like I remember reading in Columbine
and I don't know if it wasthese two or if it was like two
other people, but like they thoughtit, like everyone thought that this was
a joke. They always feel likepaintball paintball guns. Like there's a teacher
(23:41):
that's like, oh, they're shootinga video or something. It's kids pointing
a baby gun at me. Andshe only realized that was a real gun
when she looked and saw the holein the glass. Yeah, how oblivious,
yea. But yeah, during thiswhole time. It took a very
long time before people realized like whatwas actually going on. And so with
also with this being like the firstmajor televised massacre, huge amounts of misinformation.
(24:10):
Danny shot and killed practically instantly.Sean Graves. He does live.
Yeah, Um, he gets shotin the back, but he will end
up regaining his ability to walk.No where. The janitor pulled him near
the door and told him yeah,and someone students stepped on him yeah yeah,
(24:32):
and then with sorry, yeah yeah. I remember reading that yeah with
Lance Kirkland, though his is justfucking tragic too. He got shot like
five times, and he gets shotand then he sees someone he's laying there,
and then he says someone and he'slike can you help me? Yeah,
and then he's like, yeah,I'll help you, and it's fucking
(24:55):
Dylan with his shotgun. He shootshim in the face and ants ends up
surviving, and he like his wholelike left side, like ear, that
whole portion got kind of shot off. And when you see him today,
he looks like you can tell thathe went through something tragic. But I
don't think he would ever know thathe had a shotgun go off in his
(25:18):
face, Like, I haven't lookedup any of the as adults the kids
have lived. Yeah, it's crazy. With last year being the twentieth anniversary,
they did like a lot of twentyyear anniversary documentaries and things like that,
which we're really just interesting to listento and watch and kind of see
and hear how everyone's doing. Sothose were the people that were outside.
(25:42):
Now, Okay, so already wehave Rachel Scott who's dead, and then
Danny Roeber who's also outside dead.Now unfortunately, their bodies will remain outside
for twenty eight hours. And whenthe images were so it took about thirty
minutes from when the first shot happenedto the police being notified for the police
(26:04):
coming there, for the media tofinally come and do that or to be
there, So it took about thirtyminutes. And then the media gets there.
Now the media has like helicopters andeverything going around eventually, and then
when you see like a body onthe sidewalk, that's Danny and they it
was really hard to read how whenthe swat teams the EMTs try to go
(26:29):
in to like get Lance and getSewan out. As soon as they realized
that Rachel, Like they even pickedup Rachel, but as soon as they
realized that she was dead, theyleft her on the grass. And then
as soon as they realized that Dannywas dead, they just left him.
And they were outside for twenty eighthours. That is pretty horrendous. But
at the same time, you gottaimagine they're like, well, we can't
(26:52):
help them. We gotta move,like, we gotta we gotta find we
gotta look for people that are alot right. I understand like the whole
triosh, but I get that,but it is inexcusable to keep bodies outside
in the elements for twenty hours andnot even cover them up. They didn't
even cover them up. This wholething was a complete fucking shit show.
(27:17):
And like, I mean, I'mnot even a parent, but if I
was a parent, I would befucking pissed. So the five students are
on the grass west of the stairsand they're shot at and they begin to
run from the gunfire. Michael Johnsonsuffers gunshot wounds but is able to reach
the outdoor athletic storage shed, wherehe takes cover with others. Mark Taylor
(27:40):
suffers a debilitating gunshot wound and fallsto the ground. Unable to flee with
the others, Dylan goes back inside, down the stairs to an area outside
the cafeteria and shoots Danny again atclose range, killing him instantly. He
also shoots Lance Kirkland again, thistime at close strange, but Lance survives.
(28:02):
Dylan briefly enters the side entrance tothe cafeteria and stands just inside the
doorway trying to figure out maybe whythe bombs haven't exploded, because by this
time, like the two big bombsshould have gone off, and so finally
they're like, well, what thefuck's going on? Then Eric shoots down
the stairwall stairways, hitting Anne Mariewhole caulter. So Anne Marie is shot
(28:29):
multiple times and she ends up becomingparalyzed, and actually her mother ends up
committing suicide about six months after theevents, but to say she was diagnosed
by polar Her mother was dealing withthe depression for many years. But this
was obviously I think a big trippingfactor. And then this is when witnesses
(28:51):
here, one of the gunmen shout, this is what we always wanted to
do. This is awesome. Soall the shooting that happened outside with the
five being shot, Rachel and Dannydying, and then Amrie and Mark Taylor
being shot and paralyzed. That happenedwithin the span of five minutes, so
(29:11):
twenty four after twenty five after hewas shooting it, they were shooting with
sheriff's deputy. Yeah, Jefferson CountySheriff's Deputy. Neil Gardner was the community
resource officer at Columbine High School.He has just finished his lunch while sitting
in his patrol car at the student'ssmoker's pit when he receives a call from
(29:32):
the school custodian on the school radioand he's needed back at the back lot
of the school. So this isat eleven twenty two nine one one call
from the Columbine School student reports agirl injured in the south lower parking lot
of the high school. I thinkshe's paralyzed, the caller tells the dispatch,
And that's at eleven twenty three.And that's actually one of the sub
(29:53):
chapters in the book, is afemale down. Deputy Major is on his
way. Major that has that's amotorcycle cop yes, yes, So when
the call goes out, all thesecars, all these local municipalities just spring
forward and come forward. So likethe response time was really good, but
(30:14):
they didn't go inside. They didn'tgo inside for three hours. It's one
of those things with cops where it'slike like it's it's one of those things
where it's like, I'm one ofpreface this by saying cops have a very
dangerous job. Yes, absolutely,it's one of those things where I sometimes
they don't always get their respect that'sdue. But there's a lot of reasons
(30:36):
for that. So the main fuckup here, if I'm gonna if I'm
gonna say there's a fuck up,it was the sheriff, the county sheriff,
because he was the one that wasquote unquote in charge. And he's
not a cop, he's an electedofficial. And once the Metro Police found
out that Sheriff Stone was going tobe in charge, they're like, are
(30:57):
you fucking kidding me? So he'sa big proponent, And imagine him,
folks as Donald Trump. He is. Yeah. When you read if you
go through and you read Columbine,he's the person who is talking to the
media when he should not be talkingto the media. He's giving people,
he's giving false information saying that therewas three shooters and that there's like twenty
(31:19):
five killed and like all this crazyfucking information that he had no basis to
be giving. So he is thatDonald Trump of this whole fucking operation.
He and his under person both electedofficials, neither one of them actual cops.
But like what I was saying before, Yeah, going back, is
that, like, you know,you hear about these situations where like was
(31:41):
it Sandy Hook I think, orwas it the Parkland school shooting where the
cops didn't go inside. The copsshowed up and they waited for other people
to come to before they went.And it's like I think people have sued
various police departments and like there's beenlost. There's been like court rulings that
say police are not obligated to protect, like to help you the fuck.
(32:05):
Yes, Like they're like they're notThey're not under obligation to put their lives
on the line to save somebody.Yeah, this is after the Parkland shooting.
Um. This is from the SouthFlorida Sun Sentinel. A federal judge
says Broward Schools and Sheriff's office hadno legal duty to protect students during the
shooting at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School. US District Judge Beth Bloom dismissed a
(32:31):
suit filed by fifteen students who claimedthey were traumatized by the crisis in February.
The suit names six defendants, includingthe Broward School District and the Bards
County Sheriff's Office, including that copyou know there was like six weeks from
retirement, you know nothing, Bloom. The judge Bloom ruled that the two
(32:51):
agencies had no constitutional duty to protectstudents who are not in custody Jesus Christ.
The claim arises from the actions ofshooter Nicholas Cruz, third party and
not a state actor. Thus thecritical question of the court analyzes. Thus,
the critical question the court analyzes iswhether defendants had a constitutional duty to
protect plaintiffs from the actions of crews. As previously stated, for such a
(33:15):
duty to exist on the part ofthe defendants, plaintiffs would have to be
considered in custody, for example,prisoners or patients of a mental ward.
So because they hadn't arrested him yet, they were under no obligation to protect
the students from it's shooting them.Well, it sounds like the way I
took that is that the students themselveswould have to have been arrested by the
(33:37):
police in order to get their protection. But you gotta remember too, this
is a newspaper article, and theyprobably are trying to, oh for sure,
trying to push up a story thatlooks big but bottom line, and
Parkland is one of the more recentones that I remember. But that's not
the first time I've heard that thatpolice are not under any legal obligation to
protect people, like to put theirlives at risk now people, But the
(34:00):
whole like protect and serve thing though, Like it's just oh god, that's
this is a that's for a wholefucking other episode. Well that's why.
It's like it's a very touchy subject. No matter how you look at it,
it's not it's it's not black andwhite. It's definitely a great topic,
right, Okay, So I rememberI wrote down some thoughts while I
was reading this, and so oneof the things that I found interesting is
(34:23):
that there is a difference between hostagesituations and non hostage situations. So when
the events of Columbine were first unraveling, people were saying that it was a
hostage situation and to the normal person, you would think that humans held at
gunpoint equals hostages, but that's apparentlynot true. In a hostage situation,
(34:50):
the takers know that they can onlyachieve their goal if they keep the hostages
alive, so they will act rationallyright, whereas non hostage gunmen do not.
They don't act rational. They tendto act in an emotional and other
an often self destructive way, andwill typically not issue a demand. In
(35:15):
these situations, the murder suicide outcomeis incredibly high. So it's how these
two situations are handled that makes itvery important for the FBI to know what
they're dealing with. When you havehostages, the police force is highly visible
and they make the gunmen work foreverything, whereas in a non hostage situation,
(35:37):
the police keep a very low profileand avoid the implications that anyone but
the gunmen is in control. Withhostages, the goal is to lower expectations.
Non hostage crisis is to lower emotions. What's interesting is that when this
happened, there is a very notableFBI agent who is infinite for his hostage
(36:00):
negotiations. Like he worked in Waco, he did a lot of other things,
and he was actually living in Coloradoand he had a son who was
going to Columbine. So when thiswhole thing happened, he drove up and
he offered his services. And becausea lot of times, I guess the
local police officers don't usually like whenthe FBI gets involved, so he like
offered his services, like, doyou want my assistance here? And then
(36:22):
they were like, yes, absolutelyso Agent Fuseler. He was the FBI
agent. Who oh fusel Okay,yes, fusel Okay. It's so funny.
You've been looking for the stupid name. You fucking knew it, And
as soon as you said it,I'm like, wait, no, that's
not right, ridiculous? Is that? Well, at least you you knewho
I was talking about, because it'sinteresting because we talked briefly about Waco last
(36:45):
episode, and he was the hostagenegotiation for Waco, and we know how
well that ended. Oh but butwhat that ended. They did not intend
for what happened, right, Idon't think anybody could see. I mean,
that's a whole difference. Yeah,that's a whole different right, boy,
(37:05):
We've already been talking for damn nearover half an hour now and we're
only within like the first ten minutes. It's pretty ridiculous how much when you
start looking into such a brief periodof time, right, Well, I
mean we're talking about it twenty years, twenty years a year and it's you
know, forty five minutes that impactedmillions of people and still does to this
(37:28):
day. Absolutely were like, Imean, because we're talking about what happened
around eleven twenty five in the morning, right, Yeah, I means we've
only been we've we're talking about thelast hour, whatever half hour, we've
been talking about ten minutes worth ofsomebody's day. Right, It's just crazy,
which I think is why we're gonnabe doing a part one and part
two on this. Oh so Ithink we're going to be probably wrapping this
(37:49):
one up because what I want todo in the next part is talk about
the end tail of it and thenthe library, and then when the SWAT
finally goes in, Yeah, whichis going to be you know, it's
like, unfortunately, we're just likebuilding, building, building, and forward
to Yeah. I guess, yeah, So, I guess just to briefly
recap, within the first five minutesof Eric and Dylan actually firing and opening
(38:15):
up their guns, at their school. They've shot and killed two people and
wounded about five others. At thispoint, the fire alarms I don't believe
have gone off yet. There havemaybe been one or two pipe bombs,
but none of the biggest, bigexplosions have happened. It's crazy to think
for me to think that they threwa couple of their pipe bombs and that
(38:37):
most of the kids in the schoolwere just sitting in class right like that.
I don't you know what I mean, There's just something about that that
I can't wrap my head away.It blows our mind because of because of
what happened and the reaction that thekids had and how it was handled.
This is why Columbine is considered thegold standard for house schools and people respond
to the stuff. Now, Yeah, schools across the nation have a zero
(38:59):
tolerance policy. I think that's probablya good place to wrap up, don't
you think? You know what?I agree, But you got to admit
there's really no good place to wrapthis. No, no, And you
know it's one of those We're talkingabout this because of the impact on us
personally. But I would like tosay to the people that have been affected
(39:19):
by this, you know what Imean, this there's really enough like what
do you say? There's nothing tosay, and that's that's It's like,
that's why it's one of those Thisis a conversation that's not a comfortable conversation,
no, but it is one thatI think is worth having. Well,
it just goes with death and tobegin with like it's they're uncomfortable conversations
because like, no one wants toNo one wants to talk about someone's dead
(39:43):
loved one, right because they feellike it's gonna by bringing them up,
it's gonna cause pain, when inreality, most often it does not.
I mean, yes, they're gonnacry, they're gonna be emotional, but
that's to be expected. But ifanything, that makes people uncomfortable exactly because
we don't know how to process thatand we just grew up in that society
where emotions for the most part arenot Like I hate to go back to
(40:06):
coronavirus, but one of my coworkers, his seventy one year old uncle
died and his twenty two year oldcousin, who he said was on his
way to the NFL, both diedof this within the last twenty two year
old two year old really, Ohmy god. I don't think he's from
Wisconsin. I think he's from downsouth. But but it's like, just
you know what I mean, it'sjust it's just one of those things where
(40:29):
it's just the next few months Ithink are going to at least I think
this has really brought people back toreality in certain ways. Yeah, Like
we just kind of find things tooccupy our time and look for things to
be outraged about, and it's likepeople are dying. It's I don't know,
it's not good. But if there'sa silver lining in it, I
(40:51):
hope that it's how people engage oneanother. I hope so too. I
mean I find myself being furloughed andbasically just staying at home with the exception
of you know, going to thegrocery store to your place. I don't
watch the news so much. Imean I occasionally want check in, you
know, around five o'clock or sixo'clock to get like an update, but
I feel so detached from like what'sgoing on that almost doesn't seem like like
(41:15):
this is actually happening, right,So this is this weird thing, But
I think this is where we're gonnaI know, heavy sigh, Yes,
very much. So. This isa very task mentally task, which is
exactly why I just want to likeget this down and over with I can.
I don't know. I do notblame you. And it's so weird
because I feel like we've talked aboutso much in regards to Columbine, but
(41:37):
I feel like we haven't talked aboutanything. Well, it's one of those
words, I mean, like thehillside straight. I mean there's a few
name when you say something right,like it puts a image in your head,
right, Jeffrey Dahmer, Right,Marilyn Manson, right, or Marilyn
Charles Manson. Well, remind mewe got to talk about Marilyn Manson in
the next one. Yeah, Columbinenine to eleven. O. J.
(42:00):
Simpson. Right. There's when youlike, you know, there's just thoughts
and feelings behind it. When yousay the hillstrides, hillside stranglers, you're
like, I've heard that before,right, and you have a thing about
it. But this is different,right, some of it because of the
just the media coverage for years andyears later. Right. Well, I
(42:21):
think this is so different too,And I know I keep bringing this up,
but this is like the first thingthat you and I have covered,
that we've both lived through, weboth remember where we were. AnyWho U
So, yeah, guys, Ithink this is where we're gonna stop for
today. Let me know what youguys are thinking about so much about the
series so far, I realized thisisn't This has been very different from a
(42:43):
lot of the things you've done inthe past. Yeah, but it's just
it feels different very much, so, which is why I think I'm a
little I don't want to say I'mtight, but I think this is why
I'm getting so like emotional about itand so stressed out about it because I'm
not in control because I don't havethe scripts, and you get you and
(43:04):
I are going back and forth,so it's just a whole bunch of things
that are going on. I'm reallyhoping that from next month in May,
it's going to be a lot easier. Um, it's definitely. I feel
like it's gonna be a lot morescripted going forward next month, just because
there will be more concise things forme to write about, Whereas there's just
so much information here about Columbine,especially twenty years after the fact, like
(43:29):
the reports themselves, like after thereport was finally released. It was like
close to one hundred thousand pages,like ninety thousand things, yeah I can
imagine or like Oklahoma City bombing.So but yeah, Thank you guys so
much for listening. Really appreciate allall of you guys, you know,
just taking the time to listen.Please continue to share Murders my Sign with
(43:52):
your friends any way they can besure to share Murders my Sign with anyone
you can any way that you can. You can find murder is my Sign
on your favorite podcasting platforms or yourfavorite podcasting app. You can always connect
with me on social media Twitter,Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook all at
Jordi Death That's jo R. Doyou want death? Or you can always
(44:15):
email the show directly at Murder ismy Sign podcast at gmail dot com.
If you want to go above andbeyond and enjoying the boneyard, you can
do so about patreon dot com factsslash Murders my Sign. You can become
a bone Yard Backer or a Deathheadjust like my fabulous patrons Jake, Holly,
Michelle and Crystal. Thank you guysagain so much for your continue to
(44:35):
support. It really means a lotto me, other than that again.
You know I say it for thelast couple of episodes. Please make sure
you're taking care of yourself. You'restaying home if you can, washing your
hands, don't be nice to washyour hands. And career of cough A
lot good stuff. But until nexttime, guys, take care of yourself,
(45:00):
each other, and rest in peace.
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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Dateline NBC
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