May 11, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode we chat to crime writer Tariq Ashkanani about his dark new thriller The Midnight King, and a chilling true life crime: The Hinterkaifeck Murders. We also ask: was Sauron really such a bad guy?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Murder Junction everyone. This week on the show,
we are talking to lawyer, podcaster and crime writer Tarik
Ashkenani about his acclaimed new thriller The Midnight King. Tarik,
welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thank you for having me. You guys. Are you guys
got a billion podcasts on the goal? How do you
have the time to do so many podcast episodes?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
We're efficient, we are efficient, we are handsome. We are
just on top of things. Mate, I didn't know you.
Are you a lawyer? You said you're a lot?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Is this straight?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, I don't know. I'm ashamed of it, so I keep.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
It quiet, just as why you're such a good writer.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Then I worked for the for the NJS up in Scotland,
so I don't let you know. But it was nice
people clap for us. It was uh. I stood my
front porch and let everyone clap for me every week.
It was nice.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
I'll be honest. When when I was clapping, I really
did not think if you but in future it would
be another pandemic. I think the NHS lawyers. I will
clap as loudly as anyone for that.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
There was a point after the when COVID was started
and they were doing that everybody. If you're like an
NHS worker, you got like extra hours in the supermarket
and you could get like free stuff and everything. And
and I, as I email didn't say can I get
my discount at like I think it was like Killy
Hanson or some shop. And the email back and they
(01:31):
were like yeah, yeah, he he, here you go, Bobb,
but thank you for you for your service pub And
I felt such a fraud, like I was like, I'm
not on the front line doing anything but home.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
You're basically your Asian genes came to the fore there
didn't it discount?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Is there a potential money.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Off you going for my discount?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
You were on the front line in one respect, you
were at the front of the line in all the
supermarksdging passed. I was pensionings, the ones who fought in
the wall.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's good that there was a queue. And when outside
and I said you eat to nine o'clock.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
I must say, it's not it's not often that my
colleague hits the nail on the head with quite such
a plum.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
But vast I salute you for that comment. That was
very good. That's right. And you ask Nanni I don't.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
I don't know how you sleep. It probably in a
bed you bought at the front of the queue.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yes, so you're so just to paint a picture for
our audience. So Tarrek has currently been banished by his
better half to the loft in this triangular roofed room
Garrett where just to make himself make it look less
of a prison, he's decided to paint one wall bottle green.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I've painted just the wall that camera looks on. If
I would just swing the camera and you would see
like bars and there's a peel full of fish head
site for dinner up here.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
So we just describe it to our listeners. You know,
when the when the Master, for those of you who
watch Doctor, When the Master is trapped in a very
small space for all eternity, And that's what it looks
like Tarik's been trapped in, except he's got one green wall.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Now it's it's a bit smaller than Harry Potters covered
on the stairs.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And a bucket, a bucket for his bucket daily ablutions
and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But it's a nicer color than Harry Potter's room. I
think it's it's it's a lovely color. A Professor Green,
I imagine they have a pipe and a big maggany.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Desk, and you know, and have you got either of
those things?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
No, no, I don't. It's disgusting.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Actually, your whole your whole space is the very hobbit
feel to it if it was ground instead of triangular.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yes, I know, I know what you mean.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
How big are your feet?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Very big and very hairy.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Very big? And here it so you are very good.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Just so that we can place some context for for
those listeners who didn't hear you the last time you
were on this show about six years ago. So tarreg
you right, American set crime and thriller fiction. Yes, I
wrote two books. Your debut was called Welcome to Cooper.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You want to quickly in thirty seconds to describe that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yes, So Thomas Levine, a detective, gets banished to a
small town in Nebraska called Cooper, where he gets embroiled
in his first day with a dead woman whose eyes
have been scooped out by a serial killer. And shortly
after that, his partner Sucker punches him, takes his gun,
(04:37):
shoots the suspect, and he gets caught up in this
mad underworld of organized crime. Zerio Killers and he's kind
of getting framed for something he didn't do, and he
trying to get out underneath it all and prove his
good name and catch the killer at the same time.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Right, And that was a terrific book and put the
crime and thriller writing world on notice.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Now you did it?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Won?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It won the Bloody Scotland Debut Award. Did it not?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It did? Yes? That's right.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yes, there you go, well remembered, which is quite an
amazing feat for our friend here, whose memory, as we know,
has been going as he reaches into his late nineties.
Who were you you did? You did two books in
that series, I believe. So now you're saying that you
after that you have two separate publishers who have failed
(05:27):
got you to sign with Blood on the dotted line?
What are you doing for? These two publishers described that
for us.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So I came to then in my contract my first
two books, and I pitched book three. I pitched it
was itch is called The Midnight King, and I pitched it.
It was the basically kind of another dark crime American
sit thriller where a man comes home for his dad's
funeral and he's going through his dad's wardrobe and he
finds a box of trinkets from dead children, and his
(05:55):
father was a serial killer, and there's a trinket on
the top of a girl who's gone missing just a
few days earlier, and she might still be alive up there,
so he goes to try and track her down. So
I pitched that book to them and they said, oh,
they love the idea of it, but they thought it
was a bit dark for them, and so we kind
of find it's very dark. It's the darkest thing I've written,
and I think it's thirteen strangled children, and so it's
(06:19):
it's not a comedy. And I wrote that one I
went aways. We kind of parted the ways of when
away wrote that one picted it to a viper who
loved it. They bought it. And then at the same
time I was chat with Amas and I bought something
else we could do together, and they loved the idea
of doing a kind of a lighter, procedurally Edinburgh set
(06:42):
crime series, and I said, that sounds great fun. And
obviously I'm from Edinburgh. I live in Edinburgh, kind of
know the city quite well and stuff. That was kind
of quite a fun thing to write something set in
my own hometown. And obviously Ian Rankin has written a
couple of fairly successful Edinburgh set Yeah I think so,
I don't. I don't they've done that well. But I thought,
well as all as I could do better than him.
(07:03):
That's that's the main thing. So yeah, a three book
deal for them as well. So the first beok of
that one's in November time. So yeah, it's all kind
of a bit mad at the moment.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay, So we'll talk about The Midnight King in a second,
because that's your big light release. That's just just kind
of weeks ago. You've given us the story, but we'll
delve into it. The three books with Amazon. The Police Procedurals.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So there is a female private investigator, Calium Monroe. So
I didn't really want to write about police mainly because
I always find when you if you write about police stuff,
I'm always worried about. I'm kind of constrained by like
I have to show procedure staff, and I have to
have like a boss and a check. Especially British set crime,
I feel British set crime and US set crime is
(07:51):
really different in this regard, Like British cop shows love
showing the procedure and stuff and love going into the
DCI and the hierarchy of it one and and people
really like that and expect that, and I don't. That's
not what I like about cops stuff, and ale I
do before the American set stuff, which just tends to
be more fast and loose. But I've got more kind
of leeway to play with things. And so I thought, well,
(08:13):
if I want to do a UK one, I don't
really want to. There's obviously a police in it, and
it's a main as a cop in it who's a
main character, but the main main character is a PI
And I thought, that give you more leeway to kind
of you can break the rules sometimes she doesn't have
to follow the procedures. You can break into someone's house,
which you know, you can do things which you police
can't do. If that'd be a bit more fun, all.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Right, So tell us about Calli Monroe called it?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, So Calli Monroe is a private investigator and looking
into a kind of bog standardy stuff, insurance fraud. And
she's looking into a case about women who's having an
affair and he's hired by the husband and she gets
the evidence and the next day, the woman goes missing
(08:57):
and turns out. So she starts into a bit more
and uncovers evidence that there's a serial killer in the
stock in the streets of Edinburgh called the night Watcher,
which is the name of the book, and so she
kind of gets caught up in this investigation. The police
are kind of not interested in it because a lot
of the victims are can of either prostitutes, or they're
(09:20):
people kind of homeless or not exactly people or their
jobless or not folk who are high members of society.
And she starts to think that there's a link between
the police and the murders and maybe that's maybe there's
like a bit of cover up happening. So when she
starts diving into that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So I was going to ask if this is Agatha
raising territory, but I guess not because that's cozy ish.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, No, it's definitely. It definitely feels like a kind
of American noir Ish type story, but just set in Scotland.
So there's a lot more splaring, a lot more drinking.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Is Kali old young divorce?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
No, she's she's young. She's kind of like outrage Well,
I don't know how old. Are you guys my age? Yeah, yeah, seven,
she's younger. She's a bit younger than you. Then you know,
she's in fact, she's probably older than you, early thirties.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, I'm a I'm a very young I'm a wise
twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Do you look, you look very wise, very wise.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
And so she's to make I have to make up
for a Vicin's lack of wisdom, you see, I have
to be wise for both of us.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
And she's gonna Yeah, so she's young, and she's she
Her backstory is that she basically was abandoned by her
parents as a baby, dumped in this homeless shelter, and
she's never known her parents, and that's part of why
she becomes a p I because she's kind of handing
done what happened to her parents, why she was abandoned.
She grew up in the foster system. So that whole
backstory that's going to run through the series of her
(10:43):
of her parents, where they are, and and and now
she that will kind have I'll sprinkle it in a
little bit. I don't really know where I'm going with
it yet, but I'll work out.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
That's the great thing about writing isn't it over.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
A series because you guys have done seams later, right,
but I've never done done the seas before, so it
was quite fun being like, oh, chuck this guy in,
give him some weird stuff. I don't know what we
do with it, but that's his problem. And that's quite
like that.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
That's a really nice thing to have, right because then
you know, you get to play around on two or three.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Different levels and it's all laired and it's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, brilliant. Yeah. I like it's about.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
Time somebody did something good in Edinburgh, I think, Yeah,
I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Well, yeah, yeah, I mean I love I love Private
Investigator fiction. I especially love American noir in that space. Yeah,
it'll be to the Edinburgh p I noir? Was that
I said it would be very interesting to see Edinburgh
based p Yes, yes, definitely, that's my hope.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And so you're saying, so it's called The Night Watcher, The.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Night Watcher, Yes, that's out in November time, I believe.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
Okay, we look forward to that one. So well, let's
talk about about The Midnight King then.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, so yeah, that's just came out less than a
month ago, just now. So yeah, last last month it
came out. So it's been and it's my first book.
This is the first two with Amazon's. It's the first
book I've had the publisher that obviously poached to found
the Bookshops because Amazon's watch more focus the books and
stuff and was viper much obviously kind of more traditional publisher.
(12:16):
So it's been hard back to releasing bookshops. Was first
I've ever seen a hardback book?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And how do you find it?
Speaker 5 (12:21):
What was that like when you when you when you
held that first hardback in the shop, don't you know
who I am?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
No, it's amazing, No, it was. It was a it
was a real wonderful feeling. Yeah, seeing it kind of
in a shop and both at work popping out and
seeing it and taking photos of it and shelves everywhere
and stuff. And my mum's bought about fifty copies. We
probably can't even find it bookshops in Edinburgh because my
mom's bought a copy of Going Turning.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
The bouty five thousand copies urgh.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
And you want a copy of The Midnight King just
right to Tarik's mom right and your copies?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah two too.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So now with story with the Midnight King. You've told
us the basic premise, So it's the son of a
serial killer who's trying to track down a missing a
girl that his father might have murdered. Yeah, but you've
also got this framing device of a story within a story,
so tell us that about that.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah. So it was when I knew I want to
write about the serial killer. But I want it's it's
hard to do zerial killers. They've been done so many
times and they're so well done, you know, the Red Dragon.
There was a real touchdown for me. That was kind
of the big impact I had on my writing career.
And and so I went, I thought, well, what if
it's if it's kind of after the serial killer has happened,
(13:37):
and it's it's it's a long time later, it's you know,
so opens up in the kind of opening chapter where
you find out the serial killer is dead, and it's
it's the sun looking into things obviously, And so again
I thought, this is great, I'll look at it from
the sun. But was it like growing up the serial killer?
You know, how does he deal with the guilt and
he's kept quiet these years? What did he know? What
did he not know? What did he like to himself
(13:59):
about loads have a play with there. But then I
was like, well, then how do I tell the story
of what the serial killer did? How did I get
that across? And and then that was where the kind
of framing device of the bid Nick King comes in,
which is the manuscript which Nathan finds in his dad's
ward because his dad was an author as well, and
his dad wrote schlocky books through his lifetime. But then
(14:21):
he writes this manuscript called the Midnick King, which is
a kind of fictionalized version of his crimes. And that
was quite a fun way I thought of being able
to kind of tell the serial killer story without just
being a standard telling of it. It's kind of it's
it's almost how he sees himself as opposed to how
(14:42):
reality was. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Was this some serial killer based on Abbit and disappointed
with his career the number of bodies I've had to
bury for Abbit?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
No, he's white, it's it's not it's not based them
at all.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
It's not me, and he's not young, and he's you
didn't say it was a successful author that he said
he was an author?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Actually, yeah, but he's right. I do get to do
the dirty work. He is good at about burying the bodies.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So did you did you go? Because it is set Stateside?
I mean, what's wrong with good old British serial killers?
I don't know. But did you did you go? Go
and do? Where is this set? Did you do?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Set in Nashville, which is summer. I've been a couple
of times and it's it's probably my favorite place, like
on the planet. I love Nashville. It's just it's amazing.
The music or the music is just incredible. Either you
guys been before me.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I want to golle.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's amazing, man. So the music is incredible. It's just
it's so vibrant. It's there's so much stuff happened. You
go down?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Will you take us when you go next time? Will
you take?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Absolutely? Honestly, it's a going with the group of people.
It's the most fun. It's the most fun you can
have with your clothes.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
We should do that. You can carry the bags and
we can have a good time.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Did you buy a guitar while you were there?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I didn't buy guitar. I actually want to learn play guitar,
but I didn't know. It's funny because it was a
TV show in Nashville. That was we started watching the
really cheesy TV show and we got hooked in it.
And my love of country music is a fairly recent thing,
in the last like five ten years.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Really, Oh, who'd you like? Who'd you like listening to
country music?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So Christy Apleton, Little Big Town? I mean justin Timberlake's
latest album Last he's moving into that Americana. He's a
Nashville man, you know, like you.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Got about Brad Paisley, bra.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Like a bit, Brad. You're a country fan.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
I like both taps of music, country and western.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You could have he could have done You could have
done country if he wanted to, good old plaster.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Why you gotta You're never going to meet him, right,
Just leave him? Just leave it.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Vast this Faster Domingo nonsense has to stop, right. You've
got to stop dreaming about him, You've got to stop
writing to him.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
You just got to leave it. You're never going to
meet him. I think he's alive anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Sorry, you're Zach Bryan fan.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Not as much. I'm a big fan. I haven't. I
haven't listened to enough of his ov Do you know
how I got in? Do you know how I got
into country music. Right. So I used to work. I
used to work in Mauritius and.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
There were only two radio stations, and one of them
used to only play sleem deon.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
So I wasn't listening to that.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
And so there was this other radio station and I
was stuck in traffic one day and it was the
Country in Western Hour, and they were playing some fabulous
country hits, including a song called why don't You you
love Me like My Dog does? And it was amazing
guy going on about why his dog was better than
(18:07):
his wife, and it was brilliant and and and that
really was my sort of intro to country and Western.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
You tell these really good stories and stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I think a lot of stories.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I wouldn't tell that story to my wife why my
dog is better than you? I wouldn't. A brave man
is a brave man if he's if he's playing that
loudly to his missus, even.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Have a dog?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
One more question, the one more question. So these characters,
So you've got Nathan, Nathan is the son, Yeah, and
the serial killers named his dad Lucas Lucas So what
inspired what inspired these characters?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I think when I came to write it, I knew
I wanted to write someone dark and kind of quite scaryish.
You know, it's not horder obviously, but it's I guess
it's like it's it's a it's a very dark crime fiction,
kind of moving into that kind of horrory genre perhaps
for some stuff. But and I stt kind of asked
myself the question, what do I find scary? What scares me?
(19:18):
And I think as I get older, I think what
I find scary probably changes. And I think what changed
for me is having kids. I think so of the
first two books I wrote before I had kids, and
this is the first one I've written since I've had kids,
And I guess I was like, well, what what would
I find scary? Probably something happening to my kids is
probably a new big few that I've gotten nowt which
(19:40):
didn't have before, And that I think, I think when
for me, if I'm when am I sitting to write something,
I want to write something quite honest and you know,
not holding anything back and not worry too much about
focus work or go to think when they read this
dark fiction and think that guy has like got psychopathic
thoughts on his head and just put it on the paper,
don't leave in the behind. And so I think I
(20:02):
was I was like, well, someone doing horribles up to kids,
it's quite terrifying to me. So I'm going to lean
into that and just not hold anything back and put
it all on paper.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Okay right now.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I think that's a very strong motivation, and I think
the writing will be all the better for it.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I think. So. I think if you, I think if
you're honest about it. I think if you're honest about
what you're writing and what you want to achieve from it,
and you're not writing for another reason other than trying
to write the best you can do, I think that's
the way to do it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I think, well, I'm going to light in the tone now.
I'm going to light in the town by asking you.
I believe I asked you beforehand to come to this
podcast recording prepared. We want your favorite true crimes.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
This is the first I've heard of this. No, you
did ask me, and I actually I felt it quite
stressful because I was trying to find something good obviously,
and then I was like, if you guys don't like
one hundred episodes of this.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Haven't we have? This is quite new this is quite new.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Is rebrand Yes, this is a sort of rebranding. The
same wants to rebrand. I'm quite happy with.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Okay, so impromise. I see, you're right. Okay, this is
like when Marble change their Spider Man run from issue.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
That's exactly that's exactly what it's.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
With your high numbers. Yeah, okay, yeah, so okay, so
I've picked them. Oh that I feel better because I
mean people maybe haven't childrens when already, but I've gone
for the hinter Kaifak murders. I don't know if you guys.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Want to do that one noight.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Okay say that again.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Hinter katholic kaik. I'm probably saying it wrong. It's a
German word, so the word hinter means behind and Kafakkifak
is a small hamlet in Germany about forty miles north
of Munich. So hinter Kaifak is like behind Munich. It's
a tiny little form and the story takes place on
(22:03):
thirty one March nineteen twenty two, and six inhabitants of
this little farm were murdered in the night by an
unknown person. It's an unsolved crime, never been solved, and
there's six victims. There was the father Andreas, his wife Kazilia,
their daughter Victoria, and Victoria's two daughters one also called Kazilia,
(22:28):
and Joseph, and the maid Maria. He's the six folk
in the barn in the farm. Four of them murdered,
found dead in the barn, blooding to death by an axe.
The other two Maria the maid from dead in the
room and Joseph the little baby from deadness caught. So
they were murdered. You know, so far, so standard. But
(22:48):
what makes it really creepy is that after the murderer
killed or murderers killed them, they stayed and lived in
the farmhouse for days, at least three days afterwards. They
fed the animals in the farm, they cooked food, they
start fires, they lived normally. And as I said, it's
(23:09):
never been never been solved, but there's so many incredible
possibilities about who it could be, and there's so many
it's it's prime for a story to be written about it.
To one it's like a really big story.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Hm.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Well, what I'm hearing firstly is that these murderers were
very conscientious. They they stayed around, they cleaned up, they
cooked meals, et cetera. Just in case some homeless person
wandered by.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
That's it. They kept that they didn't want the animals
to starve.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And when was this.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Just after like the First World War? And and and
and when the investigator that, they said, well, they were
looking for motives. And at first they thought robbery probably,
but nothing. There was still plenty money and gold, et
cetera in the house. Nothing was taken, weren't robbed. People
people came and by will walked past the house. And
(24:04):
later on and they and they and they saw really
suspicious stuff, like someone burning clothes or burning something in
the garden. I mean, they got closed. They held up
a torch a lantern and to blind them so they
had to. So they walked away in the in the
and and and about about six months before the murders happened,
they made had left. She said there was noises in
(24:26):
the attic, that she thought the place was haunted. Days
before it happened, Andrew as the dad, the granddad, he
found a strange newspaper from Munich in the property. You know,
he hadn't bought it, No one in the vicinity had
bought it. Didn't know where it came from. He found
tracks in the fresh snow that led from the forest
to a broken door lock in the farm and there
(24:50):
was noises in the attic, but when they went up
they coudn't find anything. I mean, my my gut feeling
is that someone was living in the in the farmhouse,
in the attic, unknown to the family. And I'm kind
of watching them for potentially weeks, I think, if not months,
and I don't know. And there's there's there's there's there's
(25:11):
things like when when you try to look into motives
about it, he found that the the father, so, the
so the daughter, Victoria, who had two kids. Joseph was
the youngest. He was two years old, and Victoria's husband
(25:32):
had died in the war in World War One before
long years before Joseph was born. To Joseph's father, it
looks like was a victim of was a product of
incest from her dad, who had been raping her or
at least having an a fair with her. They were
convicted of incest, but nothing seems to have happened as
a result of that.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
This is very dark.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's very dark. There's a neighbor who's who's who's the
legal father of the child, but people he would just
put on the birth certificate try and hide the fact
that there was this incession relationship going on. But he
when he was one of the first on the scene,
he had a key to the house that no one
else had. He went in started looking about places. Some
vote wondered if he perhaps murdered the family to try
(26:14):
and not have to pay money in child support to
the to the to the to the to the daughter,
and someone spotted what they said was her actual husband,
who hadn't died in the war, but he'd woken up
in the hospital years later and had found out that
his wife's father had raped her and ed his kid,
and they'd gone back in a murder's rage and killed
(26:35):
the family.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I think that's what my money's on that.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
That's my favorite. Waking up years later, war's over and
you find this and you go back and you burn
it all to the girl and they've never saw it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I like that suspect.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
It was brilliant. We've got so many stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Here's your suspect.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So I've just done a little bit of research into
this kind. And the suspects I like for this are
known as the Gump Brothers. Yes and the older of
the two was Adolph Gump. Now, if that's not the
name of a murderer, I don't know. I don't know
what is. And apparently they had connections to something called
(27:16):
the Frei Corps Oberland, which is some sort of paramilion.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, well that was a fascist organization exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And he Adolph Gump, was already suspected of having participated
in the murder of nine farmers in Uppersilesia during the
nineteen twenty one Polish uprising in that region. He had
a warrant for his arrest issued by the court, So
my money is on him. His brother was called and do.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
You know what I'm really upset here, Tarek, that inspect
of poor Khan here has come up with a better
solution than you, right, and it's your case that we're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
This is this is not right.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Okay, this is not this is not good. I think you're.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Gonna no, but I wanted to you know the fact
that he's come up with Adolph Forrest Gump, which is
a much better suspect than the deadly, alive and out
of a coma, which he didn't even mention to us lawyers.
That's the fin and this is this is a klus
(28:22):
o'can here has done this in two minutes while you
were talking.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
He's gone in Wikipedia it.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
They gave it so so so just I mean, even
this is a very impressives because I think back in
early two thousands, I think they gave it to modern
police force two and seven. They gave it to the
students of a local police academy using modern criminal vitation techniques.
(28:49):
And they went in and they looked all over and
they said, no idea, they coudn't serve it. A lot
of it was bigger, prints weren't really taken. Pop went in,
people moved things around people that the neighbors went in
and we're like, oh god, the everyone's dead. Let's have
a cup of tea, and we're eating food in the
kitchen and stuff, and so the crime scene was completely
(29:10):
mucked about with. It's all very suspicious. That's what I
would do if I had murdered someone, I'd be like,
oh god, because I've spilled this clumsy meat, if touched
this and what we're doing. So it's all very It's
probably impossible to solve, but there's there's so many different
people that could be.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
It's not impossible to solve because I just solved it,
and all I heard from your city store.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
I'm really disappointed in this week's guest. I mean, it
comes on with this half big story, can't pronounce. He
claims that the some police academy film that he watched
as a kid didn't solve it. You've solved it in
two minutes, right.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Even the man who makes the noises solve it.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And those kids that you say that, these modern kids
that were giving all the modern techniques and they couldn't
solve it. It just reinforces my belief young people are useless.
What can you say?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I thought you you're a young person.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I reckon, I'm them we are.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
He is ageless, He's ageless, infinite. He's like you know
how sourn is like infinite and like ageless evil.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
That's what Vast is. But he can.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Wonder whut your image which is a big eye.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Well, let me ask you this, what did Souron do
that was so bad?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Well, other than try and take over the whole Middle Earth?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
What's wrong with that? I mean he helped make the rings.
If they were his rings, technically speaking, people try to
steal his rings. If someone takes steals your rings, you
take over the world to get them back, would you not? No?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
If one person just ran everything, and.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
If a few Hobbits die along the way, well, I mean,
are we really.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
In this day and age, given the state of the world, advocating.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Benevolent reatorship?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I heard so and had hats with MEO on it
for meet Middle Earth great again?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
No dal Earth? Yeah, miagaaga mega Mega.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
I don't think that's going to work because he's not
really you know, he's just an eye with a hat.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Then I think he was misunderstood. I think people didn't
give him due credit. People come into your home, steal
your rings of power that give you dominion over everything,
you're going to be miffed, you know.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
But if he's like this all powerful guy, if he's
that powerful, how do they steal.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
His rings for something?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Sneaky hobbit?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
I thought in a long time since I read the book,
I didn't really like the book very much. It's just
going to sackleg just thing to say.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
But well, you're on a crime, can I can? I?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Well, I've got you can.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
I play a bit of my favorite country song that
I found that this is the one that was talking
about it like my dog.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Let me see if I can play it.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Can't hear anything you've been?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
He never tells me that In Sick Else. He never says,
why don't you get off that chap? You don't knows
mean nothing?
Speaker 5 (32:25):
We want to go?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
I won't you my dog.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
There?
Speaker 5 (32:34):
You are a little snipper of like my dog Billy Crrington.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
That was Billy Crrington. I will look that up and
add that to my country clean lessons.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
But I tell you, probably the worst song I've heard
in a very, very very he sounded very He sounded
very depressed. I have to say, he really sounded Is
he okay, Billy?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I don't know. It depends if he chose his wife
his dog? Really is?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
It's only song? Did you more?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
By very quickly asking Tarek what he's working on next?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So I am currently deep in the edits of my
next book for Viper, which is a standalone novel set
in a made up small town in America where two
kids were going missing ten months ago. What ten months later?
One kid comes back but says he is the other kid?
What's all that about? Weird?
Speaker 3 (33:27):
What?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah? It's like a is he is he going crazy?
Is it a changeling?
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
What's happening here? And now? I'm also starting two of
the Calli mon Roe series as well.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
What's the What's the Missing Kid?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
One called I don't know yet? I did have a
name for it, but I hate it's very good.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's a long it's a long,
a long title. It's gonna be alien thing to some people.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
All right, great?
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Just to answer your question, Billy Billy Carrington has at
least six albums of music around. He has an ubera
of work.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
I should say that brings us to the close, have
yet another fascinating episode. Once again, if you'd liked the show,
can we ask you to leave a review, sign up
for regular podcast episodes using your favorite podcast app.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
And please do spread the word so vas.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
If you decided to become a serial killer, do you
think you would be any good at it?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Right? The only serial that either of us would ever
be able to kill is conflicts?
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Oh my, that dad joke.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
Note we have been your friends, the Red orch the
writers on Murder Junction, Din' Ding d
Welcome to Murder Junction everyone. This week on the show,
we are talking to lawyer, podcaster and crime writer Tarik
Ashkenani about his acclaimed new thriller The Midnight King. Tarik,
welcome back.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Thank you for having me. You guys. Are you guys
got a billion podcasts on the goal? How do you
have the time to do so many podcast episodes?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
We're efficient, we are efficient, we are handsome. We are
just on top of things. Mate, I didn't know you.
Are you a lawyer? You said you're a lot?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Is this straight?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yeah, I don't know. I'm ashamed of it, so I keep.
Speaker 5 (00:37):
It quiet, just as why you're such a good writer.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Then I worked for the for the NJS up in Scotland,
so I don't let you know. But it was nice
people clap for us. It was uh. I stood my
front porch and let everyone clap for me every week.
It was nice.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
I'll be honest. When when I was clapping, I really
did not think if you but in future it would
be another pandemic. I think the NHS lawyers. I will
clap as loudly as anyone for that.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
There was a point after the when COVID was started
and they were doing that everybody. If you're like an
NHS worker, you got like extra hours in the supermarket
and you could get like free stuff and everything. And
and I, as I email didn't say can I get
my discount at like I think it was like Killy
Hanson or some shop. And the email back and they
(01:31):
were like yeah, yeah, he he, here you go, Bobb,
but thank you for you for your service pub And
I felt such a fraud, like I was like, I'm
not on the front line doing anything but home.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
You're basically your Asian genes came to the fore there
didn't it discount?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Is there a potential money.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Off you going for my discount?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
You were on the front line in one respect, you
were at the front of the line in all the
supermarksdging passed. I was pensionings, the ones who fought in
the wall.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
It's good that there was a queue. And when outside
and I said you eat to nine o'clock.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
I must say, it's not it's not often that my
colleague hits the nail on the head with quite such
a plum.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
But vast I salute you for that comment. That was
very good. That's right. And you ask Nanni I don't.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
I don't know how you sleep. It probably in a
bed you bought at the front of the queue.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Yes, so you're so just to paint a picture for
our audience. So Tarrek has currently been banished by his
better half to the loft in this triangular roofed room
Garrett where just to make himself make it look less
of a prison, he's decided to paint one wall bottle green.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I've painted just the wall that camera looks on. If
I would just swing the camera and you would see
like bars and there's a peel full of fish head
site for dinner up here.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
So we just describe it to our listeners. You know,
when the when the Master, for those of you who
watch Doctor, When the Master is trapped in a very
small space for all eternity, And that's what it looks
like Tarik's been trapped in, except he's got one green wall.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Now it's it's a bit smaller than Harry Potters covered
on the stairs.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
And a bucket, a bucket for his bucket daily ablutions
and whatnot.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
But it's a nicer color than Harry Potter's room. I
think it's it's it's a lovely color. A Professor Green,
I imagine they have a pipe and a big maggany.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Desk, and you know, and have you got either of
those things?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
No, no, I don't. It's disgusting.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Actually, your whole your whole space is the very hobbit
feel to it if it was ground instead of triangular.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yes, I know, I know what you mean.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
How big are your feet?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Very big and very hairy.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Very big? And here it so you are very good.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Just so that we can place some context for for
those listeners who didn't hear you the last time you
were on this show about six years ago. So tarreg
you right, American set crime and thriller fiction. Yes, I
wrote two books. Your debut was called Welcome to Cooper.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
You want to quickly in thirty seconds to describe that.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yes, So Thomas Levine, a detective, gets banished to a
small town in Nebraska called Cooper, where he gets embroiled
in his first day with a dead woman whose eyes
have been scooped out by a serial killer. And shortly
after that, his partner Sucker punches him, takes his gun,
(04:37):
shoots the suspect, and he gets caught up in this
mad underworld of organized crime. Zerio Killers and he's kind
of getting framed for something he didn't do, and he
trying to get out underneath it all and prove his
good name and catch the killer at the same time.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Right, And that was a terrific book and put the
crime and thriller writing world on notice.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Now you did it?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Won?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It won the Bloody Scotland Debut Award. Did it not?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
It did? Yes? That's right.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yes, there you go, well remembered, which is quite an
amazing feat for our friend here, whose memory, as we know,
has been going as he reaches into his late nineties.
Who were you you did? You did two books in
that series, I believe. So now you're saying that you
after that you have two separate publishers who have failed
(05:27):
got you to sign with Blood on the dotted line?
What are you doing for? These two publishers described that
for us.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
So I came to then in my contract my first
two books, and I pitched book three. I pitched it
was itch is called The Midnight King, and I pitched it.
It was the basically kind of another dark crime American
sit thriller where a man comes home for his dad's
funeral and he's going through his dad's wardrobe and he
finds a box of trinkets from dead children, and his
(05:55):
father was a serial killer, and there's a trinket on
the top of a girl who's gone missing just a
few days earlier, and she might still be alive up there,
so he goes to try and track her down. So
I pitched that book to them and they said, oh,
they love the idea of it, but they thought it
was a bit dark for them, and so we kind
of find it's very dark. It's the darkest thing I've written,
and I think it's thirteen strangled children, and so it's
(06:19):
it's not a comedy. And I wrote that one I
went aways. We kind of parted the ways of when
away wrote that one picted it to a viper who
loved it. They bought it. And then at the same
time I was chat with Amas and I bought something
else we could do together, and they loved the idea
of doing a kind of a lighter, procedurally Edinburgh set
(06:42):
crime series, and I said, that sounds great fun. And
obviously I'm from Edinburgh. I live in Edinburgh, kind of
know the city quite well and stuff. That was kind
of quite a fun thing to write something set in
my own hometown. And obviously Ian Rankin has written a
couple of fairly successful Edinburgh set Yeah I think so,
I don't. I don't they've done that well. But I thought,
well as all as I could do better than him.
(07:03):
That's that's the main thing. So yeah, a three book
deal for them as well. So the first beok of
that one's in November time. So yeah, it's all kind
of a bit mad at the moment.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay, So we'll talk about The Midnight King in a second,
because that's your big light release. That's just just kind
of weeks ago. You've given us the story, but we'll
delve into it. The three books with Amazon. The Police Procedurals.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
So there is a female private investigator, Calium Monroe. So
I didn't really want to write about police mainly because
I always find when you if you write about police stuff,
I'm always worried about. I'm kind of constrained by like
I have to show procedure staff, and I have to
have like a boss and a check. Especially British set crime,
I feel British set crime and US set crime is
(07:51):
really different in this regard, Like British cop shows love
showing the procedure and stuff and love going into the
DCI and the hierarchy of it one and and people
really like that and expect that, and I don't. That's
not what I like about cops stuff, and ale I
do before the American set stuff, which just tends to
be more fast and loose. But I've got more kind
of leeway to play with things. And so I thought, well,
(08:13):
if I want to do a UK one, I don't
really want to. There's obviously a police in it, and
it's a main as a cop in it who's a
main character, but the main main character is a PI
And I thought, that give you more leeway to kind
of you can break the rules sometimes she doesn't have
to follow the procedures. You can break into someone's house,
which you know, you can do things which you police
can't do. If that'd be a bit more fun, all.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Right, So tell us about Calli Monroe called it?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, So Calli Monroe is a private investigator and looking
into a kind of bog standardy stuff, insurance fraud. And
she's looking into a case about women who's having an
affair and he's hired by the husband and she gets
the evidence and the next day, the woman goes missing
(08:57):
and turns out. So she starts into a bit more
and uncovers evidence that there's a serial killer in the
stock in the streets of Edinburgh called the night Watcher,
which is the name of the book, and so she
kind of gets caught up in this investigation. The police
are kind of not interested in it because a lot
of the victims are can of either prostitutes, or they're
(09:20):
people kind of homeless or not exactly people or their
jobless or not folk who are high members of society.
And she starts to think that there's a link between
the police and the murders and maybe that's maybe there's
like a bit of cover up happening. So when she
starts diving into that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So I was going to ask if this is Agatha
raising territory, but I guess not because that's cozy ish.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, No, it's definitely. It definitely feels like a kind
of American noir Ish type story, but just set in Scotland.
So there's a lot more splaring, a lot more drinking.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Is Kali old young divorce?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
No, she's she's young. She's kind of like outrage Well,
I don't know how old. Are you guys my age? Yeah, yeah, seven,
she's younger. She's a bit younger than you. Then you know,
she's in fact, she's probably older than you, early thirties.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Yeah, I'm a I'm a very young I'm a wise
twenty seven.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Do you look, you look very wise, very wise.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
And so she's to make I have to make up
for a Vicin's lack of wisdom, you see, I have
to be wise for both of us.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
And she's gonna Yeah, so she's young, and she's she
Her backstory is that she basically was abandoned by her
parents as a baby, dumped in this homeless shelter, and
she's never known her parents, and that's part of why
she becomes a p I because she's kind of handing
done what happened to her parents, why she was abandoned.
She grew up in the foster system. So that whole
backstory that's going to run through the series of her
(10:43):
of her parents, where they are, and and and now
she that will kind have I'll sprinkle it in a
little bit. I don't really know where I'm going with
it yet, but I'll work out.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
That's the great thing about writing isn't it over.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
A series because you guys have done seams later, right,
but I've never done done the seas before, so it
was quite fun being like, oh, chuck this guy in,
give him some weird stuff. I don't know what we
do with it, but that's his problem. And that's quite
like that.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
That's a really nice thing to have, right because then
you know, you get to play around on two or three.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
Different levels and it's all laired and it's brilliant.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, brilliant. Yeah. I like it's about.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
Time somebody did something good in Edinburgh, I think, Yeah,
I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Well, yeah, yeah, I mean I love I love Private
Investigator fiction. I especially love American noir in that space. Yeah,
it'll be to the Edinburgh p I noir? Was that
I said it would be very interesting to see Edinburgh
based p Yes, yes, definitely, that's my hope.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And so you're saying, so it's called The Night Watcher, The.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Night Watcher, Yes, that's out in November time, I believe.
Speaker 5 (11:51):
Okay, we look forward to that one. So well, let's
talk about about The Midnight King then.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, so yeah, that's just came out less than a
month ago, just now. So yeah, last last month it
came out. So it's been and it's my first book.
This is the first two with Amazon's. It's the first
book I've had the publisher that obviously poached to found
the Bookshops because Amazon's watch more focus the books and
stuff and was viper much obviously kind of more traditional publisher.
(12:16):
So it's been hard back to releasing bookshops. Was first
I've ever seen a hardback book?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And how do you find it?
Speaker 5 (12:21):
What was that like when you when you when you
held that first hardback in the shop, don't you know
who I am?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
No, it's amazing, No, it was. It was a it
was a real wonderful feeling. Yeah, seeing it kind of
in a shop and both at work popping out and
seeing it and taking photos of it and shelves everywhere
and stuff. And my mum's bought about fifty copies. We
probably can't even find it bookshops in Edinburgh because my
mom's bought a copy of Going Turning.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
The bouty five thousand copies urgh.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
And you want a copy of The Midnight King just
right to Tarik's mom right and your copies?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah two too.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
So now with story with the Midnight King. You've told
us the basic premise, So it's the son of a
serial killer who's trying to track down a missing a
girl that his father might have murdered. Yeah, but you've
also got this framing device of a story within a story,
so tell us that about that.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Yeah. So it was when I knew I want to
write about the serial killer. But I want it's it's
hard to do zerial killers. They've been done so many
times and they're so well done, you know, the Red Dragon.
There was a real touchdown for me. That was kind
of the big impact I had on my writing career.
And and so I went, I thought, well, what if
it's if it's kind of after the serial killer has happened,
(13:37):
and it's it's it's a long time later, it's you know,
so opens up in the kind of opening chapter where
you find out the serial killer is dead, and it's
it's the sun looking into things obviously, And so again
I thought, this is great, I'll look at it from
the sun. But was it like growing up the serial killer?
You know, how does he deal with the guilt and
he's kept quiet these years? What did he know? What
did he not know? What did he like to himself
(13:59):
about loads have a play with there. But then I
was like, well, then how do I tell the story
of what the serial killer did? How did I get
that across? And and then that was where the kind
of framing device of the bid Nick King comes in,
which is the manuscript which Nathan finds in his dad's
ward because his dad was an author as well, and
his dad wrote schlocky books through his lifetime. But then
(14:21):
he writes this manuscript called the Midnick King, which is
a kind of fictionalized version of his crimes. And that
was quite a fun way I thought of being able
to kind of tell the serial killer story without just
being a standard telling of it. It's kind of it's
it's almost how he sees himself as opposed to how
(14:42):
reality was. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Was this some serial killer based on Abbit and disappointed
with his career the number of bodies I've had to
bury for Abbit?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
No, he's white, it's it's not it's not based them
at all.
Speaker 5 (14:59):
It's not me, and he's not young, and he's you
didn't say it was a successful author that he said
he was an author?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Actually, yeah, but he's right. I do get to do
the dirty work. He is good at about burying the bodies.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
So did you did you go? Because it is set Stateside?
I mean, what's wrong with good old British serial killers?
I don't know. But did you did you go? Go
and do? Where is this set? Did you do?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Set in Nashville, which is summer. I've been a couple
of times and it's it's probably my favorite place, like
on the planet. I love Nashville. It's just it's amazing.
The music or the music is just incredible. Either you
guys been before me.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I want to golle.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's amazing, man. So the music is incredible. It's just
it's so vibrant. It's there's so much stuff happened. You
go down?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Will you take us when you go next time? Will
you take?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Absolutely? Honestly, it's a going with the group of people.
It's the most fun. It's the most fun you can
have with your clothes.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
We should do that. You can carry the bags and
we can have a good time.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Did you buy a guitar while you were there?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I didn't buy guitar. I actually want to learn play guitar,
but I didn't know. It's funny because it was a
TV show in Nashville. That was we started watching the
really cheesy TV show and we got hooked in it.
And my love of country music is a fairly recent thing,
in the last like five ten years.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Really, Oh, who'd you like? Who'd you like listening to
country music?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So Christy Apleton, Little Big Town? I mean justin Timberlake's
latest album Last he's moving into that Americana. He's a
Nashville man, you know, like you.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Got about Brad Paisley, bra.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Like a bit, Brad. You're a country fan.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
I like both taps of music, country and western.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You could have he could have done You could have
done country if he wanted to, good old plaster.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
Why you gotta You're never going to meet him, right,
Just leave him? Just leave it.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Vast this Faster Domingo nonsense has to stop, right. You've
got to stop dreaming about him, You've got to stop
writing to him.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
You just got to leave it. You're never going to
meet him. I think he's alive anymore.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Sorry, you're Zach Bryan fan.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Not as much. I'm a big fan. I haven't. I
haven't listened to enough of his ov Do you know
how I got in? Do you know how I got
into country music. Right. So I used to work. I
used to work in Mauritius and.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
There were only two radio stations, and one of them
used to only play sleem deon.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
So I wasn't listening to that.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
And so there was this other radio station and I
was stuck in traffic one day and it was the
Country in Western Hour, and they were playing some fabulous
country hits, including a song called why don't You you
love Me like My Dog does? And it was amazing
guy going on about why his dog was better than
(18:07):
his wife, and it was brilliant and and and that
really was my sort of intro to country and Western.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
You tell these really good stories and stuff.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I think a lot of stories.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yeah, yeah, wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I wouldn't tell that story to my wife why my
dog is better than you? I wouldn't. A brave man
is a brave man if he's if he's playing that
loudly to his missus, even.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Have a dog?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
One more question, the one more question. So these characters,
So you've got Nathan, Nathan is the son, Yeah, and
the serial killers named his dad Lucas Lucas So what
inspired what inspired these characters?
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I think when I came to write it, I knew
I wanted to write someone dark and kind of quite scaryish.
You know, it's not horder obviously, but it's I guess
it's like it's it's a it's a very dark crime fiction,
kind of moving into that kind of horrory genre perhaps
for some stuff. But and I stt kind of asked
myself the question, what do I find scary? What scares me?
(19:18):
And I think as I get older, I think what
I find scary probably changes. And I think what changed
for me is having kids. I think so of the
first two books I wrote before I had kids, and
this is the first one I've written since I've had kids,
And I guess I was like, well, what what would
I find scary? Probably something happening to my kids is
probably a new big few that I've gotten nowt which
(19:40):
didn't have before, And that I think, I think when
for me, if I'm when am I sitting to write something,
I want to write something quite honest and you know,
not holding anything back and not worry too much about
focus work or go to think when they read this
dark fiction and think that guy has like got psychopathic
thoughts on his head and just put it on the paper,
don't leave in the behind. And so I think I
(20:02):
was I was like, well, someone doing horribles up to kids,
it's quite terrifying to me. So I'm going to lean
into that and just not hold anything back and put
it all on paper.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Okay right now.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
I think that's a very strong motivation, and I think
the writing will be all the better for it.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
I think. So. I think if you, I think if
you're honest about it. I think if you're honest about
what you're writing and what you want to achieve from it,
and you're not writing for another reason other than trying
to write the best you can do, I think that's
the way to do it.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I think, well, I'm going to light in the tone now.
I'm going to light in the town by asking you.
I believe I asked you beforehand to come to this
podcast recording prepared. We want your favorite true crimes.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
This is the first I've heard of this. No, you
did ask me, and I actually I felt it quite
stressful because I was trying to find something good obviously,
and then I was like, if you guys don't like
one hundred episodes of this.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Haven't we have? This is quite new this is quite new.
Speaker 5 (21:06):
Is rebrand Yes, this is a sort of rebranding. The
same wants to rebrand. I'm quite happy with.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Okay, so impromise. I see, you're right. Okay, this is
like when Marble change their Spider Man run from issue.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
That's exactly that's exactly what it's.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
With your high numbers. Yeah, okay, yeah, so okay, so
I've picked them. Oh that I feel better because I
mean people maybe haven't childrens when already, but I've gone
for the hinter Kaifak murders. I don't know if you guys.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Want to do that one noight.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Okay say that again.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Hinter katholic kaik. I'm probably saying it wrong. It's a
German word, so the word hinter means behind and Kafakkifak
is a small hamlet in Germany about forty miles north
of Munich. So hinter Kaifak is like behind Munich. It's
a tiny little form and the story takes place on
(22:03):
thirty one March nineteen twenty two, and six inhabitants of
this little farm were murdered in the night by an
unknown person. It's an unsolved crime, never been solved, and
there's six victims. There was the father Andreas, his wife Kazilia,
their daughter Victoria, and Victoria's two daughters one also called Kazilia,
(22:28):
and Joseph, and the maid Maria. He's the six folk
in the barn in the farm. Four of them murdered,
found dead in the barn, blooding to death by an axe.
The other two Maria the maid from dead in the
room and Joseph the little baby from deadness caught. So
they were murdered. You know, so far, so standard. But
(22:48):
what makes it really creepy is that after the murderer
killed or murderers killed them, they stayed and lived in
the farmhouse for days, at least three days afterwards. They
fed the animals in the farm, they cooked food, they
start fires, they lived normally. And as I said, it's
(23:09):
never been never been solved, but there's so many incredible
possibilities about who it could be, and there's so many
it's it's prime for a story to be written about it.
To one it's like a really big story.
Speaker 5 (23:23):
Hm.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Well, what I'm hearing firstly is that these murderers were
very conscientious. They they stayed around, they cleaned up, they
cooked meals, et cetera. Just in case some homeless person
wandered by.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
That's it. They kept that they didn't want the animals
to starve.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And when was this.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Just after like the First World War? And and and
and when the investigator that, they said, well, they were
looking for motives. And at first they thought robbery probably,
but nothing. There was still plenty money and gold, et
cetera in the house. Nothing was taken, weren't robbed. People
people came and by will walked past the house. And
(24:04):
later on and they and they and they saw really
suspicious stuff, like someone burning clothes or burning something in
the garden. I mean, they got closed. They held up
a torch a lantern and to blind them so they
had to. So they walked away in the in the
and and and about about six months before the murders happened,
they made had left. She said there was noises in
(24:26):
the attic, that she thought the place was haunted. Days
before it happened, Andrew as the dad, the granddad, he
found a strange newspaper from Munich in the property. You know,
he hadn't bought it, No one in the vicinity had
bought it. Didn't know where it came from. He found
tracks in the fresh snow that led from the forest
to a broken door lock in the farm and there
(24:50):
was noises in the attic, but when they went up
they coudn't find anything. I mean, my my gut feeling
is that someone was living in the in the farmhouse,
in the attic, unknown to the family. And I'm kind
of watching them for potentially weeks, I think, if not months,
and I don't know. And there's there's there's there's there's
(25:11):
things like when when you try to look into motives
about it, he found that the the father, so, the
so the daughter, Victoria, who had two kids. Joseph was
the youngest. He was two years old, and Victoria's husband
(25:32):
had died in the war in World War One before
long years before Joseph was born. To Joseph's father, it
looks like was a victim of was a product of
incest from her dad, who had been raping her or
at least having an a fair with her. They were
convicted of incest, but nothing seems to have happened as
a result of that.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
This is very dark.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
It's very dark. There's a neighbor who's who's who's the
legal father of the child, but people he would just
put on the birth certificate try and hide the fact
that there was this incession relationship going on. But he
when he was one of the first on the scene,
he had a key to the house that no one
else had. He went in started looking about places. Some
vote wondered if he perhaps murdered the family to try
(26:14):
and not have to pay money in child support to
the to the to the to the to the daughter,
and someone spotted what they said was her actual husband,
who hadn't died in the war, but he'd woken up
in the hospital years later and had found out that
his wife's father had raped her and ed his kid,
and they'd gone back in a murder's rage and killed
(26:35):
the family.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I think that's what my money's on that.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
That's my favorite. Waking up years later, war's over and
you find this and you go back and you burn
it all to the girl and they've never saw it.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I like that suspect.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
It was brilliant. We've got so many stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Here's your suspect.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So I've just done a little bit of research into
this kind. And the suspects I like for this are
known as the Gump Brothers. Yes and the older of
the two was Adolph Gump. Now, if that's not the
name of a murderer, I don't know. I don't know
what is. And apparently they had connections to something called
(27:16):
the Frei Corps Oberland, which is some sort of paramilion.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, well that was a fascist organization exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And he Adolph Gump, was already suspected of having participated
in the murder of nine farmers in Uppersilesia during the
nineteen twenty one Polish uprising in that region. He had
a warrant for his arrest issued by the court, So
my money is on him. His brother was called and do.
Speaker 5 (27:45):
You know what I'm really upset here, Tarek, that inspect
of poor Khan here has come up with a better
solution than you, right, and it's your case that we're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
This is this is not right.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Okay, this is not this is not good. I think you're.
Speaker 5 (28:01):
Gonna no, but I wanted to you know the fact
that he's come up with Adolph Forrest Gump, which is
a much better suspect than the deadly, alive and out
of a coma, which he didn't even mention to us lawyers.
That's the fin and this is this is a klus
(28:22):
o'can here has done this in two minutes while you
were talking.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
He's gone in Wikipedia it.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
They gave it so so so just I mean, even
this is a very impressives because I think back in
early two thousands, I think they gave it to modern
police force two and seven. They gave it to the
students of a local police academy using modern criminal vitation techniques.
(28:49):
And they went in and they looked all over and
they said, no idea, they coudn't serve it. A lot
of it was bigger, prints weren't really taken. Pop went in,
people moved things around people that the neighbors went in
and we're like, oh god, the everyone's dead. Let's have
a cup of tea, and we're eating food in the
kitchen and stuff, and so the crime scene was completely
(29:10):
mucked about with. It's all very suspicious. That's what I
would do if I had murdered someone, I'd be like,
oh god, because I've spilled this clumsy meat, if touched
this and what we're doing. So it's all very It's
probably impossible to solve, but there's there's so many different
people that could be.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
It's not impossible to solve because I just solved it,
and all I heard from your city store.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
I'm really disappointed in this week's guest. I mean, it
comes on with this half big story, can't pronounce. He
claims that the some police academy film that he watched
as a kid didn't solve it. You've solved it in
two minutes, right.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Even the man who makes the noises solve it.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
And those kids that you say that, these modern kids
that were giving all the modern techniques and they couldn't
solve it. It just reinforces my belief young people are useless.
What can you say?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I thought you you're a young person.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I reckon, I'm them we are.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
He is ageless, He's ageless, infinite. He's like you know
how sourn is like infinite and like ageless evil.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
That's what Vast is. But he can.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Wonder whut your image which is a big eye.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Well, let me ask you this, what did Souron do
that was so bad?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Well, other than try and take over the whole Middle Earth?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
What's wrong with that? I mean he helped make the rings.
If they were his rings, technically speaking, people try to
steal his rings. If someone takes steals your rings, you
take over the world to get them back, would you not? No?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
If one person just ran everything, and.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
If a few Hobbits die along the way, well, I mean,
are we really.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
In this day and age, given the state of the world, advocating.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
Benevolent reatorship?
Speaker 2 (30:59):
I heard so and had hats with MEO on it
for meet Middle Earth great again?
Speaker 3 (31:06):
No dal Earth? Yeah, miagaaga mega Mega.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
I don't think that's going to work because he's not
really you know, he's just an eye with a hat.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Then I think he was misunderstood. I think people didn't
give him due credit. People come into your home, steal
your rings of power that give you dominion over everything,
you're going to be miffed, you know.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
But if he's like this all powerful guy, if he's
that powerful, how do they steal.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
His rings for something?
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Sneaky hobbit?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
I thought in a long time since I read the book,
I didn't really like the book very much. It's just
going to sackleg just thing to say.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
But well, you're on a crime, can I can? I?
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Well, I've got you can.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
I play a bit of my favorite country song that
I found that this is the one that was talking
about it like my dog.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
Let me see if I can play it.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Can't hear anything you've been?
Speaker 4 (32:14):
He never tells me that In Sick Else. He never says,
why don't you get off that chap? You don't knows
mean nothing?
Speaker 5 (32:25):
We want to go?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
I won't you my dog.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
There?
Speaker 5 (32:34):
You are a little snipper of like my dog Billy Crrington.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
That was Billy Crrington. I will look that up and
add that to my country clean lessons.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
But I tell you, probably the worst song I've heard
in a very, very very he sounded very He sounded
very depressed. I have to say, he really sounded Is
he okay, Billy?
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I don't know. It depends if he chose his wife
his dog? Really is?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
It's only song? Did you more?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
By very quickly asking Tarek what he's working on next?
Speaker 2 (33:08):
So I am currently deep in the edits of my
next book for Viper, which is a standalone novel set
in a made up small town in America where two
kids were going missing ten months ago. What ten months later?
One kid comes back but says he is the other kid?
What's all that about? Weird?
Speaker 3 (33:27):
What?
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Yeah? It's like a is he is he going crazy?
Is it a changeling?
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Is it?
Speaker 2 (33:32):
What's happening here? And now? I'm also starting two of
the Calli mon Roe series as well.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
What's the What's the Missing Kid?
Speaker 2 (33:41):
One called I don't know yet? I did have a
name for it, but I hate it's very good.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's a long it's a long,
a long title. It's gonna be alien thing to some people.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
All right, great?
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Just to answer your question, Billy Billy Carrington has at
least six albums of music around. He has an ubera
of work.
Speaker 5 (34:02):
I should say that brings us to the close, have
yet another fascinating episode. Once again, if you'd liked the show,
can we ask you to leave a review, sign up
for regular podcast episodes using your favorite podcast app.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
And please do spread the word so vas.
Speaker 5 (34:17):
If you decided to become a serial killer, do you
think you would be any good at it?
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Right? The only serial that either of us would ever
be able to kill is conflicts?
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Oh my, that dad joke.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
Note we have been your friends, the Red orch the
writers on Murder Junction, Din' Ding d
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