June 29, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode we talk to broadcaster and crime writer Steph McGovern about her debut thriller Deadline, her engineering chops, and her passion for Irish dancing
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Murder Junction. Everyone. This week on the show,
we are talking to Steph McGovern, broadcaster, journalist, TV presenter
and now thriller writer. Steph, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Thank you. I was really excited about doing this because
I love you too. Remember that night we added now
well we are the best, we are, we are the best.
I mean, you're clearly amazing writers, obviously, but also just
dead forny.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
That is it is true. I am funny and Vasima
is dead well close, We're close to death. That's wonderful. Praise.
Thank you very much. Steps It's lovely to have you on.
Before before we get chatted to you, I want to
ask my dear friend, what have you been up to
this week?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Is there something specific that you are referring to? You've
got that glint in your eye, and I don't mean
your glaucoma. You're referring to the fact that I messaged
you last night asking you how long it takes for
your you're in to emerge?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You did?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Did?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Did text me about that? We'll come back to that,
But no, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring
to your your trophy win in the last week and
your cricket scores. But if you want to talk about
how long it takes you to pee, I'm happy to
discuss that as well.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I'll be honest how long it takes you Toway. I
think it's something significant in life because before we started
this podcast, I had been doing some other work, doing
my financial journalism stuff, and had a gap and thought,
I need a way. I'm going to run and I'm
going to put my water bottle under the tap and
see if I can get to the new and back
before the water bottle was full, and actually, and did
(01:37):
you manage it? I did.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well. This is the only reason I mentioned this because
I admitted you to this podcast and then you vanished
for a few minutes and we wondered where you were
and now we know. Now we know you were doing
three things at the same time, trying to feel a
water bottle, trying to get onto this podcast, and also
to your functions. Did you see.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Ladies and gentlemen?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Then having away?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
The trophy was It was not for having a week.
The trophy was was the Fingerprint Award at the Capital
Crime Festival for winning for the City of Destruction. The
fifth in a Malaba houses, But this isn't about that.
And you were lovely enough to present me with that
award with your with your lovely gown that you were
wearing that evening. But this isn't about me. This is
(02:25):
about Steph.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Let's were you Were you dreaming this? Were you dreaming this?
She wasn't wearing a gown. I know I wasn't yet
unless you're going are you dreaming about getting awards?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Steph?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Is that what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I have a picture of Steph in something red my
mind I associate with a gown because it was an
awards evening.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
It was listen Santa costume fast.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, he was so cute when he came up though,
because you genuinely didn't know you'd won, and you know,
I didn't look like you didn't think you were going
to And then.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, because I'd been nominated for that one before and
not one, so I generally didn't think that I would.
So it was lovely. But anyway, as I said, it's
not about me, Steph. We're going to start. We're going
to start by rewinding history, because we always do this.
We start by asking people where they grew up and
for asking you to lead us through the journey of
your early life towards becoming a crime writer. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So grew up in Middlesbrough, which, as I'm sure you know,
is it's a town in the northeast of England, about
forty minutes from Newcastle to the north, or maybe an
hour from New York to the south. So I think
it's called Middlesbrough because it's where the nuns used to
stop when they were going between the cathedrals or something.
I don't know anyway, And so, yeah, I grew up there,
(03:39):
heavy industry town, and to be honest, it's funny because
my life there was you know, it was all about
science and engineering. Everything I saw around me was chemical
plants and steel works and heavy industry, and that's where
I saw my career. So, you know, when I was
(03:59):
in my kind of means, what I saw were the
job prospects in engineering, and I didn't really think that
I could ever work in the media or in the
arts or anything. It was very much like, I love
science and engineering, that's what and there's money in it,
That's what I'm going to do. It wasn't until later
on that I ended up in the media, but at
(04:20):
the time I was working for Black and Decca in
Durham or Spenny Mier.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
So it was my job to help going ahead of it.
You're a high flyer who won this the art right
engineering scholarship. That sounds northern, didn't it tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, so this was So the school I went to
was quite an interesting school, right because it was sponsored
by industry. It was an experiment school called the City
Technology College. So our school was actually sponsored by British
American Tobacco, so it was a fag company that was
basically funding all of his sources in the school. And
(05:01):
it was a real melting pot of kids from all
kinds of backgrounds and quite you know, quite troubled kids
as well, or certainly you know, from difficult home lives
and things. But we were put together as this experiment
to see whether you know, doing more around the world
of work would actually help us in you know, in
later life and stuff. And it did. I think That's
(05:23):
kind of why I've done as well as I did,
because we were taught about industry and it wasn't just
all about exams. In fact, exams felt less important than
the all the work stuff. So anyway, so yeah, so
this school I went to was all about that. But
because we were this weird experiment school, none of the
other state schools would play us in any sports or
(05:43):
any competitions or anything. So we were always up against
the private schools, which was hilarious because I'd be with
some like pretty tough kids and you could see some
of the private school kids like, oh my god, this
was scary, which we used to our advantage and that
really helped us because I think that mixing of social
groups we realized actually we all got on because fundamentally
(06:05):
the only difference was how much album and dadd So
we're like, we all kind of, you know, this mountain
pot came together. And so then I started applying for
all these different things that the private school kids were
applying for, one of them being in our Right Scholarship,
which is basically like as it's given out to fourteen
fifteen year olds who they think are going to be
(06:26):
leaders and engineering, and they give you a bit of
money to helps about your air levels and stuff like that.
So I just felt this air of confidence around.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, like very modest. You're being very modest because you
actually went on to win more awards and then you say,
as you just referenced that you you did a bit
of a bit of stuff for Black and Decker where
you managed to come up with some some sort of
engineering marvel that saved them one hundred and fifty pounds. Anime,
you're like, how did.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
You do that?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
James, You're like the Geerson of No Shields.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So I basically worked on like this factory I was in.
It was all about lean production. It's all about you know,
just in time production, that type of thing. And I
got trained in the latest techniques around that called six sigma,
So I got like the equivalent of a green belt
it was called, which sounds like a martial art type thing,
but it wasn't. Yeah, so I am. I am in
(07:23):
a brilliant and a fight anyway, that's in a side
And so yes we're in Sterling.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
When we got out in Glasgow, we'll remember that.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yes, I know, I find a great affinity with the
people of Glasgow because they are very much like the
people of Tea Side and Newcastle. So yeah, hard, friendly
and funny and yeah. So I was I was working
working in this kind of making trying to make the
factory more efficient, to increase productivity and so got given
(07:55):
this project with a company that made the fans from
the leaf blowers, and they weren't making them fast enough
to meet demand. So I went in and ran a
big project with them to try and make these fans
faster and it worked. And so that's why seven roads
and money. They could make them faster and then it yeah,
it saved the money and made them more efficient and yeah,
(08:16):
and so that's what won me Young Engineer for Britain,
which was quite quite a moment. It was on the
day of nine to eleven as well, so I won
it the day, I know, so I was meant to
be on News Round that day having won this competition.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
But obviously, well I'm going to pivot now because we'll
come back to your TV career in a bit. But
the bulk of this is about your book and we
want to get a good plug in for that. So
first of all, tell us they give us the elevator
pitch for Deadline, and then tell us how you came
(08:51):
to decide that you were going to write write this book.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, so the elevator pitch is a reporter is live
on air in the middle of an interview with one
of the most powerful people in the country. Millions of
people are watching at home. She's in a factory, a
very super secure place, doing this interview live on Telly,
(09:14):
when all of a sudden, someone tells her in an
earpiece that her child and her wife have been kidnapped
and she has to do everything that they're telling her
to do in this interview in order to keep them safe.
So the book is kind of twenty minutes of this
live television interview, and then as you go through it,
it keeps taking you back to, you know, five years earlier.
(09:37):
What was happening then is you know, stuff around stalking
and grooming and corruption and terrorism and so yeah, in
the premises like why is the hijacker hijacked it? Why
this particular interview and this place and what are they
trying to get out of it? And that's the kind
of thing for it. And it came about because I
just kept thinking what would I do for broadcast got hijacked.
(10:00):
I just used to sit on broadcast. I was on
BBC Breakfast for eight years and was forever sent all
over the country, you know, always in farms and factories
and stuff, always in safety gear. So much so someone
set up a website of Steph in safety gear that
I'd explained to my mom. It's not an official BBC site.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Man, it's like those websites for Tom Cruise running because
he's always in all of his films and his actual
websites dedicated to this.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Now, yeah, yeah, there are people out there and enjoying
all this type of stuff. So yeah, it came from that,
and I just kept thinking about it on broadcasts, and
as you both know, I'm a massive crime fiction fan
read loads, and I just I love that Harlan Corbyn
philosophy of what if what if you're in this ordinary
situation to you that something extraordinary happens in and what
(10:50):
would you do? In Howard cups? I just used to
ask my teams because you work with different teams wherever
you are geographically, and everyone's responses would be different based
on what was going on in their life. And I
just found that fascinating. I was like, and I just thought,
that's what a good premise for a book. Although I
didn't ever think I had a book in me, but
I just started writing stuff down and collecting stuff over
(11:10):
the years.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
So how long did it take you to write this?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Five years?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Look that's good. That's impressive. Has it been read by
any of your colleagues, your TV colleagues.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yet, Yes, it has actually so because it is there's
a lot of like, as I remember Val mcderm would
saying this to me, in your first book, you end
up putting a lot of autobiography in it, and and
did you too, did you do that? Did you feel
like you used a lot of stories from your your
own lives.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Our books have generally set in the past. Yeah, but
you've got your elephant, right, Yeah. Yeah, A lot of.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Book was set in modern modern India where I'd lived
for a decade, and the lead character was a policeman
in his forties. So yeah, actually that's true, that's very true.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And so I think that I did do that, Like
there's a lot of like there's there's this plot a
plot about a stalker in there, and that that actually
is very true to what actually happened to me, and
so things like that. It gave me a way of
really telling about stories of things that have happened in
my TV life that I've never been able to or
(12:18):
haven't spoken about publicly before, but I can write in
a fictional sense, and got her hearts just drama. It's
just fiction.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Aside from being very, very cathartic by the sounds of it,
it's also an incredibly propulsive book. And it's very It
follows in the traditions of of some some really great
Hollywood films where the protagonist has someone in his ear
or someone telling them on the phone what to do.
And I remember a film with Liam Neeson. I think
he was on a train and he's being forced to
(12:45):
do with one wonderful things and and all sorts of
wonderful films like that. Was that a sort of inspiration?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Like I just because I
kept whenever I talked to my career wherever I was
about hijack, it was you know, I was obvious that
it could be physically done in the sense of someone
grabs you around the neck and points says to camera
do as I say, or she gets it. But I
just I love locked room mysteries, and so I wanted
(13:13):
to do her. The reported to be in a really
secure location, and and this in one in particular as
a money printing factory. And I have been to a
money printing factory before, and they are insanely secure, Like
it's unbelievable how secure they are. So I like the
idea of a hijack happening in a place where actually
(13:34):
it's even harder to get in than it normally is.
And so and yet again that it's off the back
of my love of lockerroom mysteries, of various thrillers, of
Harlan Cormanavely. So it's just all all of that really
rulled into one.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Why were you in a money printing factory?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I was broadcasting from there, So I was doing a
story for BBC Breakfast about how money's printed, and I
was in it's the companies called De la Rue and
it's actually up in Newcastle and they have this you know,
you have to go through so many different layers of
security to get in. You're not allowed to got the
toilet on your own, you you're not allowed to show
(14:12):
the faces of the staff there in case, you know,
people find out they work there in blackmail, and like
just all of this stuff. You won't have phones. But
it was fascinating watching like the money roll off the printers,
because it was every currency you could think of, and
also if there was a defect in any of the money,
they wouldn't just be in it. They'd fly someone from
(14:33):
that country's denominated or whatever it is, you know, if
it's a run or whatever. Actually that's a bad example.
Let me say something else. If it was there were
print in reality or any real went I was there.
But so they bring in someone from the country that
the currency is from and get them to watch it
being destroyed so that it isn't You can't just throw
all the sheep of money in the bin, because then
(14:56):
someone nice one I use that as a forgery.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I'm a billionaire in the run.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Rules sound very much like the kind of rules they
have on TV shows about drug drug processing houses. You know,
everyone's got to be in their underwear so they don't
steal stuff. And you know, we have similar rules on
this podcast. There's not allowed to go to the toilet
on his own because he makes a mess and I don't.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I don't know. I have been for seventeen hours.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, I can't show his space for obvious reasons, because.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
This is it. This is that's absolutely right, this is
this is digitized. I don't actually look like this head.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I've alluded to the fact, you've alluded to the fact
that you love crime fiction, and that's why you've written Deadline.
But why why crime fiction out of all the genres
you could have written.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Because I like the I like it for something to
happen that's unexplained and then to get resolved by the
end of it. I just like that as a process.
I have tried other genres in terms of reading, and
I just I tend to lose concentration because I want
I like drama, you know, I think fundamentally, I've spent
(16:05):
most of my career following drama and explaining drama to people.
That's been my job, like as a storyteller, but explaining
what's happening in the global economy or you know, why
Trump's decisions matter. All those things have drama and storytelling
to them, and so this feels like the natural genre
(16:29):
I would love and also want to write in. I
mean it did. It does also make it really intimidating,
because obviously there are so many authors I love who
I didn't. I don't feel like I could ever be
like like I be. Your book The Hunted amazing, you know,
and reading that you're like all of the different elements
in there, all the twists and twists that I didn't
(16:50):
guess and stuff. I just think it's so impressive how
many brilliant authors there are out there writing great stuff.
And I guess I don't know. I just I kind
of love I love reading it and writing.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
We all have that. We all have that at the beginning,
don't we have that? Imposters? We still have imposter syndrome.
But I remember when when Vas and I started, You
remember just being in the same room as people that
Mark Billingham or Val McDermott was just like, oh my gosh.
And now we're lucky enough to count these people as friends,
and it will be I have no doubt it will
be the same for you. I want to ask a
(17:27):
question going back in time again. Right, we've talked about
your stellar academic career, engineering background, your financial and now
analytical skills. We have not mentioned your Irish dancing background.
You are you are an Irish dancing champion? Are you not.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
In that?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Do you know? It's it was simply because the girl
over the road did it, and so I just went
with her to a lesson one day and I really
enjoyed it. Irish family and it was before it was trendy,
so it was before river Dance and all that, it
was just it just looked like a very weird form
of dance, you know, people with their arms still at
the sides and jumping them down, and then haven't had
(18:13):
curly hair for competitions and all that. But I don't know,
I just loved it. And I think I've got Irish
family actually, so it's not so there is that link
as well, and all my Irish family loved the fact
that I was doing Irish dancing, and then obviously River
Dance really made it blow up. And I think what
I loved about it was there weren't that many people
(18:34):
doing it when I did it, and therefore to compete
you often traveled and you'd go to other part you know,
you'd meet other people from other backgrounds, and that I
found that really interesting because fundamentally I am a nosy person,
so I just like meeting people and I like hearing
how they tick and what's going on in their life.
But particularly with this Irish dancing, I never knew what
(18:56):
anyone's parents did or anything like that, so there was
never that sense of like rich or poor or anything
like that. It was it felt like it was a
good leveler because all anyone cared about was whether you
were a good dancer or not, and you know that
type of thing. Not it didn't matter if you had
rich parents, so you didn't. And I quite like that
again that I think that social mixing is so good
(19:19):
for your own confidence when you are someone who comes
from an area which is you know, deprived or whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
You've mentioned that the issue of egalitarianism and confidence a
couple of times. Now, that's something that we need to
improve on, right, I mean, there's so many communities that
are left behind. How do we change things?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, it totally And I think I think my biggest
beef about education without wanting to rant, but I'm going
to do a little mini rant, is we silo people
really early on. We say you're arty or your sciencey.
You can't be both. Apparently, we say you're clever or
you're thick, simply based on whether you can pass exams,
(19:58):
and exams need you to have structure at home to
be able to learn. They need you to have been
able to eat properly. They need things that Actually there's
a lot of families, particularly deprived families, who cannot provide,
often through no fault of their own so we just
I hate the fact that we separate people at such
a you know, and give them a label at such
a young age, and then that kind of sets them
(20:21):
off for their own thinking about themselves. There's so many
amazing entrepreneurs who I meet who will say, oh, I
was thick or you know, I wasn't very good at
school or whatever, and that is the school's fault that well,
not the teachers, but the states society. Yeah, yeah, it
is like it really drives me nuts that we do that,
and we we don't actually think about the fact people
(20:43):
learn differently, and I don't mean every individual getting us
bespoke like lesson planned, but just thinking more holistically about
what do we want our young people to leave school with.
We want them to leave school with the love of
the of learning and to you know, have learned stuff
to be able to help them in life, like financial
literacy and understanding if you are you know, if you're
(21:06):
a writer, how do you make money as a writer
and how does that work? And if you're an artist,
how do you how do you have that as a job.
But we don't. We just leave people to kind of
just figure it out for themselves. And that's impossible.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
You know, do you find, like Abera and I and
many other writers, I know that that these these these
thoughts that you have, these these these takes on society.
Do you find as you were writing. Did you find
as you were writing Deadline that some of those things
crept into the background.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Absolutely, And I think, you know, without giving the plot away,
there's a lot of my I guess beef with the
media and political bubble controlling the lives of everyone else
when they know so little about the lives of everyone else,
The assumptions that I made, the underestimations that I made,
(21:57):
like all of these things. That definitely is a an
unintended theme through the book, because, to be honest, when
I first had this idea about the hijack, I didn't
know why the hijack happened. I just knew I wanted
to do that, and I knew how it would be resolved,
and I knew, like what you know, that this hijack
would happen, But I didn't know why until I was
writing it. And then I started writing the characters, and
(22:19):
then I was like, that's what this is. Why it's
because they're so underestimated, and yeah, more fool the media
and political bubble for that, and then how do we
you know, how do we turn that on its head?
And so yeah, unintentionally it's it's got a got a
lot of my politics, but not party political in there.
(22:41):
Although it was funny because I did an interview with
a with with the press about it and it was
someone who clearly was a like quite a Poshtory who
said to me, you're very anti Tory in it, and
I'm like, no, I'm not. I don't mention at any
point where the political you know who the political party is. Oh,
well you're very anti South. No, I'm not like this,
no point. So again, is it just.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Because you're writing about Yeah, I know that you said
anti South there, but I heard anti sag you know
the spinach that you're getting in the food? Yeah, with
what was your beef with sog?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And I've got no beef with sag?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
So what are you working on next? I mean, you
are so busy. Are you writing another book? Tell us
about that?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yes, I'm writing book two. So obviously I'm still doing
all my broadcast stuff. So fundamentally, I'm mainly talking about
what's going on in the global economy, which is horrendous,
and so doing that doing the podcast I do on that,
And I've been filming various series that are going to
come out which I can't tell you about yet. They're
coming out later in the year, and there's one exciting
(23:51):
one that's kind of linked to writing, but I will
I can't.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I can't tell you steps at this point.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I know because I told my editor about it the
other day and she was like, my book editor, fran
we I've learnt so much about the book world, by
the way. It's it's fascinating, isn't it. Like the process
it's it's so slow, like you finish a book and
then it's like two years later before anyone reads it.
So the second one has a couple of the same
(24:23):
characters from Deadline, but it's a completely different situation, so
it's not a television set or broadcast or anything like that.
And the character from Deadline who's kind of my main character,
Rose the reporter. She's in it, but she's more of
a sidekick narrator type in it rather than someone who's like,
(24:43):
you know, dead involved in the action. But it's it's
hard to tell you what it's about because it kind
of gives the plot away, but it's.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Tell us because we still were looking forward to book one.
Our readers are looking forward to book one.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Get yeah, sorry, working you have a title?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Oh yeah, I do have a working title, The Delivery Girl,
and it will makes sense. Yeah? When is it exactly?
Or is it setting in every van an Amazon parcel vane?
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Are you having We.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
May be waiting a bit longer than two years for.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
It exactly, and then you'll find it behind the back
of the bins.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I don't know what they call you, know you, you're
clearly We've seen you around for a few years now
at crime fiction events and festivals because you are often
called upon to present because of your charm and your
grace and your massive red ball gown. As we've already.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Discussed an existent one.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, are you having fun? Are you having fun? The sharp?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
I think this is going to send you a ballgame
which you're going to have to wear. Now.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, well I can't wait. I mean, if that's if
that's what it takes, I'm happyople to do that. Am
I having fun? Absolutely? The thing that I've loved the
most about this is I have thoroughly enjoyed the writing process.
I've even enjoyed the editing process, which I know can
be quite hard. I mean, I've only read one book
(26:29):
that's been edited, but I've really enjoyed that. But more
than anything, I love the community, you know, the support
that you get from other authors. I work predominantly in
an industry full of bitches and so to you know,
to go into the book world, which feels I don't
(26:50):
get me wrong. There's an element of competition, of course
there is, but there's also a lot of like laughter
and fun and support and quizy is God. The crime
community love a good quiz and so I like that,
and like I felt, I felt welcomed, and I felt
that I've enjoyed it. I think the bit now, the
(27:12):
scary bit now for me is they're going out on
the book too, and all that, Like I my night
terror is about no one turning up is off the scale.
And you know, I'm someone who spent my life in
the public eye for the last twenty odd years, but
I'm really paranoid that I'm just going to be there
on my own.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I do know what that's never going to happen. Do
you remember our first events? Our first event, there was
four people in the room. One was Vas's wife, one
was Vasus publicist, one was my publicist, and the other
person just walked in randomly.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
It was lost. You think the south Bank Center could
of drumming up an audience. So look, how did you.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Get over that? How did you like get through it?
Because I would never have left the house again. I'd
just be so embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
No, we want that guy to buy a thousand books?
I want.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I once did an event. I once did an event
in South London where it was me, two people and
a bottle of wine. And it was a brilliant event
because there was an off license next door. So we've
got three bottles of wine and I can't remember what
we discussed, but it was fantastic. Yeah, so even the
small ones work. I think size isn't everything?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Is it? Fast? Well you should know that better than anyone.
So you have an issue. You're already a household name,
so for you, I think people would Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
But the other thing is, and you'll have an opinion
on this, whether you want to voice it, I don't know.
The other thing is there's a real like beef with
people like me writing books who haven't written them themselves.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
But I have no, we know you.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Have who hasn't who hasn't written their book. It's very
very quickly. The word gets around very quickly. Yeah, well
there was.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
There was There was a book on that list, on
the British Book Award Crime Book of the Year list
that was ghost written that people didn't pick up on. Right,
So there are these things. But you are one of
the good ones. We know that because the effort you've
put in, and so you will be taken to everybody's heart,
whereas there are certain others who haven't written their books
(29:19):
and are in it for the money, and that's not
so nice.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
But as long as you've got people that you because
I've obviously come with a lot of privilege because of
my profile publicly, but for authors, you know, and you
see them all at all these events. You two were
obviously two of the big superstars in the industry, but
you see lots of people, don't you, who are probably
they might have an amazing book in them, but it's
(29:43):
just so hard to get in because it's such a
bunny market. And you think, you like, yeah, and that's.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
The way I look at it. Stuff is very simple.
All of us have previous and other careers before we
enter the industry. It just so happens. At some peop
people have careers that give them big platforms and that
helped them in their book industry. I mean, Bear and
I came from accountancy and management backgrounds, which doesn't really
help sell a load of books. But if we had
(30:12):
had the platforms that you or others broadcasting world had,
of course we would have used them. Why wouldn't we
have so.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I know we would still write our books.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yes, as long as people write their books and are
honest about it. I don't even have an issue with
people who use ghostwriters but are completely open and transparent
about it. Yes, true, the ghostwriter get I.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Don't see the point that I didn't see the point
of that, beast. I can understand if it's a biography.
I can understand it's a biography, But well, it's fiction.
It's just your name on somebody else's work.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I've got a solution to this because I was talking
to my friend about it yesterday. Why can't it be
the author's name and then have inspired by and have
whoever it is are like? You know, I have bought
you know, Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And Luis's business a business to see you stick a
famous person's name.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, but it's still got the famous person's name on.
But it's just also credit in the person.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
You take all of James Patterson's recent outputs, right, most
of them are are co written, as he says, with
his stable of co writers.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Clinton's and everyone else.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, you have his name in massive font at the
top and the other writers at the bottom. So he
does credit the other party, but there are others who don't.
James Patterson is the name that sells and publishers not.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
So it's like Wilbur Smith. Wilburg Smith is still writing
books despite being dead right.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Aggressive, very impressive up and still still churning him up.
All right, stepf we've come to the end of this
amazingly lovely Oh yes, unfortunately literal. You put that red
ball gown on.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I have a I still have a question for you
though before you let me go, and I mentioned this
at the Capitol Crime Awards. What how how are you
are doing the most extreme journey from Newcastle where we're
both appearing at something together and then have to be
in talkie the next morning. I suggested we go together,
but you are literally doing some like epic journey between
(32:13):
the two places.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, it's because I have two weeks worth of events
and I've just my missus decided to come with me.
He didn't trust me away from home for two weeks,
so I'm going to So the best way was for
me to take my car rather than take trains because
from talkie, I have to go to Cornwall for an
event and I have to go to Wales for a
couple of events. I mean, it's just it's lovely, but
it's also going to be very draining.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Can I tell you why his wife doesn't trust him.
It's not what you think, ladies and gentlemen. They just
she just doesn't trust him eating healthily. The minute he
goes on to he eats kebabs and send sends photos
to his wife of other people eating salad. This is
my munching on chips.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I did that once. I'm tak and you and Steph
you know that this man. Every time we go on
a drive together to some festival, he forces me forces
me to stop at a KF.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
You need to get sponsors KFC, you too, You know
what should be in collaboration with.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I'd actually prefer Nando's. I'm going up in the world
now and Nando's no, but I'm not allowed at home,
so I'm am I trying to sneak one.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
And then again, last word, Steph, when when is deadline out?
Just for we know when it's out, but for the
sake of the listeners.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Third of July, So yeah, it's out. Then it's it's
out the same day as like flipping Lisa Jewel and
all sorts of people. So I'm kind of telling everyone
to buy all that books not mine.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Guys. If you love Lisa Jewels stuff, if you love
great thrillers, then Steph McGovern's deadline is the one to buy.
On the third this Thursday, Steph is lovely chatting to you.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Thank you you too lovely to see you. We'll see
you soon.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
And that brings us to the clothes of another episode
once again. If you've liked the show, can we ask
you to leave review, sign up for regular podcast episodes
in your favorite app, and please do spread the word
so vast. Do you think Steph can teach us to
be champion Irish Dancers?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
No, harrogate, that's my challenge.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
We will learn. We will learn.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
After the quiz, You and I and the.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Two of you, we'll say that, and we will learn
Irish dancing as well. And on that rather uplifting note,
we have been your friends. The Red Hot Chilly Writers
on Murder Junction
Welcome to Murder Junction. Everyone. This week on the show,
we are talking to Steph McGovern, broadcaster, journalist, TV presenter
and now thriller writer. Steph, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Thank you. I was really excited about doing this because
I love you too. Remember that night we added now
well we are the best, we are, we are the best.
I mean, you're clearly amazing writers, obviously, but also just
dead forny.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
That is it is true. I am funny and Vasima
is dead well close, We're close to death. That's wonderful. Praise.
Thank you very much. Steps It's lovely to have you on.
Before before we get chatted to you, I want to
ask my dear friend, what have you been up to
this week?
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Is there something specific that you are referring to? You've
got that glint in your eye, and I don't mean
your glaucoma. You're referring to the fact that I messaged
you last night asking you how long it takes for
your you're in to emerge?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
You did?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Did?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Did text me about that? We'll come back to that,
But no, I wasn't referring to that. I was referring
to your your trophy win in the last week and
your cricket scores. But if you want to talk about
how long it takes you to pee, I'm happy to
discuss that as well.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I'll be honest how long it takes you Toway. I
think it's something significant in life because before we started
this podcast, I had been doing some other work, doing
my financial journalism stuff, and had a gap and thought,
I need a way. I'm going to run and I'm
going to put my water bottle under the tap and
see if I can get to the new and back
before the water bottle was full, and actually, and did
(01:37):
you manage it? I did.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well. This is the only reason I mentioned this because
I admitted you to this podcast and then you vanished
for a few minutes and we wondered where you were
and now we know. Now we know you were doing
three things at the same time, trying to feel a
water bottle, trying to get onto this podcast, and also
to your functions. Did you see.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Ladies and gentlemen?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Then having away?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
The trophy was It was not for having a week.
The trophy was was the Fingerprint Award at the Capital
Crime Festival for winning for the City of Destruction. The
fifth in a Malaba houses, But this isn't about that.
And you were lovely enough to present me with that
award with your with your lovely gown that you were
wearing that evening. But this isn't about me. This is
(02:25):
about Steph.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Let's were you Were you dreaming this? Were you dreaming this?
She wasn't wearing a gown. I know I wasn't yet
unless you're going are you dreaming about getting awards?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Steph?
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Is that what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I have a picture of Steph in something red my
mind I associate with a gown because it was an
awards evening.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
It was listen Santa costume fast.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, he was so cute when he came up though,
because you genuinely didn't know you'd won, and you know,
I didn't look like you didn't think you were going
to And then.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yeah, because I'd been nominated for that one before and
not one, so I generally didn't think that I would.
So it was lovely. But anyway, as I said, it's
not about me, Steph. We're going to start. We're going
to start by rewinding history, because we always do this.
We start by asking people where they grew up and
for asking you to lead us through the journey of
your early life towards becoming a crime writer. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
So grew up in Middlesbrough, which, as I'm sure you know,
is it's a town in the northeast of England, about
forty minutes from Newcastle to the north, or maybe an
hour from New York to the south. So I think
it's called Middlesbrough because it's where the nuns used to
stop when they were going between the cathedrals or something.
I don't know anyway, And so, yeah, I grew up there,
(03:39):
heavy industry town, and to be honest, it's funny because
my life there was you know, it was all about
science and engineering. Everything I saw around me was chemical
plants and steel works and heavy industry, and that's where
I saw my career. So, you know, when I was
(03:59):
in my kind of means, what I saw were the
job prospects in engineering, and I didn't really think that
I could ever work in the media or in the
arts or anything. It was very much like, I love
science and engineering, that's what and there's money in it,
That's what I'm going to do. It wasn't until later
on that I ended up in the media, but at
(04:20):
the time I was working for Black and Decca in
Durham or Spenny Mier.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
So it was my job to help going ahead of it.
You're a high flyer who won this the art right
engineering scholarship. That sounds northern, didn't it tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Yeah, so this was So the school I went to
was quite an interesting school, right because it was sponsored
by industry. It was an experiment school called the City
Technology College. So our school was actually sponsored by British
American Tobacco, so it was a fag company that was
basically funding all of his sources in the school. And
(05:01):
it was a real melting pot of kids from all
kinds of backgrounds and quite you know, quite troubled kids
as well, or certainly you know, from difficult home lives
and things. But we were put together as this experiment
to see whether you know, doing more around the world
of work would actually help us in you know, in
later life and stuff. And it did. I think That's
(05:23):
kind of why I've done as well as I did,
because we were taught about industry and it wasn't just
all about exams. In fact, exams felt less important than
the all the work stuff. So anyway, so yeah, so
this school I went to was all about that. But
because we were this weird experiment school, none of the
other state schools would play us in any sports or
(05:43):
any competitions or anything. So we were always up against
the private schools, which was hilarious because I'd be with
some like pretty tough kids and you could see some
of the private school kids like, oh my god, this
was scary, which we used to our advantage and that
really helped us because I think that mixing of social
groups we realized actually we all got on because fundamentally
(06:05):
the only difference was how much album and dadd So
we're like, we all kind of, you know, this mountain
pot came together. And so then I started applying for
all these different things that the private school kids were
applying for, one of them being in our Right Scholarship,
which is basically like as it's given out to fourteen
fifteen year olds who they think are going to be
(06:26):
leaders and engineering, and they give you a bit of
money to helps about your air levels and stuff like that.
So I just felt this air of confidence around.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Yeah, like very modest. You're being very modest because you
actually went on to win more awards and then you say,
as you just referenced that you you did a bit
of a bit of stuff for Black and Decker where
you managed to come up with some some sort of
engineering marvel that saved them one hundred and fifty pounds. Anime,
you're like, how did.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
You do that?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
James, You're like the Geerson of No Shields.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
So I basically worked on like this factory I was in.
It was all about lean production. It's all about you know,
just in time production, that type of thing. And I
got trained in the latest techniques around that called six sigma,
So I got like the equivalent of a green belt
it was called, which sounds like a martial art type thing,
but it wasn't. Yeah, so I am. I am in
(07:23):
a brilliant and a fight anyway, that's in a side
And so yes we're in Sterling.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
When we got out in Glasgow, we'll remember that.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yes, I know, I find a great affinity with the
people of Glasgow because they are very much like the
people of Tea Side and Newcastle. So yeah, hard, friendly
and funny and yeah. So I was I was working
working in this kind of making trying to make the
factory more efficient, to increase productivity and so got given
(07:55):
this project with a company that made the fans from
the leaf blowers, and they weren't making them fast enough
to meet demand. So I went in and ran a
big project with them to try and make these fans
faster and it worked. And so that's why seven roads
and money. They could make them faster and then it yeah,
it saved the money and made them more efficient and yeah,
(08:16):
and so that's what won me Young Engineer for Britain,
which was quite quite a moment. It was on the
day of nine to eleven as well, so I won
it the day, I know, so I was meant to
be on News Round that day having won this competition.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
But obviously, well I'm going to pivot now because we'll
come back to your TV career in a bit. But
the bulk of this is about your book and we
want to get a good plug in for that. So
first of all, tell us they give us the elevator
pitch for Deadline, and then tell us how you came
(08:51):
to decide that you were going to write write this book.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, so the elevator pitch is a reporter is live
on air in the middle of an interview with one
of the most powerful people in the country. Millions of
people are watching at home. She's in a factory, a
very super secure place, doing this interview live on Telly,
(09:14):
when all of a sudden, someone tells her in an
earpiece that her child and her wife have been kidnapped
and she has to do everything that they're telling her
to do in this interview in order to keep them safe.
So the book is kind of twenty minutes of this
live television interview, and then as you go through it,
it keeps taking you back to, you know, five years earlier.
(09:37):
What was happening then is you know, stuff around stalking
and grooming and corruption and terrorism and so yeah, in
the premises like why is the hijacker hijacked it? Why
this particular interview and this place and what are they
trying to get out of it? And that's the kind
of thing for it. And it came about because I
just kept thinking what would I do for broadcast got hijacked.
(10:00):
I just used to sit on broadcast. I was on
BBC Breakfast for eight years and was forever sent all
over the country, you know, always in farms and factories
and stuff, always in safety gear. So much so someone
set up a website of Steph in safety gear that
I'd explained to my mom. It's not an official BBC site.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Man, it's like those websites for Tom Cruise running because
he's always in all of his films and his actual
websites dedicated to this.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Now, yeah, yeah, there are people out there and enjoying
all this type of stuff. So yeah, it came from that,
and I just kept thinking about it on broadcasts, and
as you both know, I'm a massive crime fiction fan
read loads, and I just I love that Harlan Corbyn
philosophy of what if what if you're in this ordinary
situation to you that something extraordinary happens in and what
(10:50):
would you do? In Howard cups? I just used to
ask my teams because you work with different teams wherever
you are geographically, and everyone's responses would be different based
on what was going on in their life. And I
just found that fascinating. I was like, and I just thought,
that's what a good premise for a book. Although I
didn't ever think I had a book in me, but
I just started writing stuff down and collecting stuff over
(11:10):
the years.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
So how long did it take you to write this?
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Five years?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Look that's good. That's impressive. Has it been read by
any of your colleagues, your TV colleagues.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yet, Yes, it has actually so because it is there's
a lot of like, as I remember Val mcderm would
saying this to me, in your first book, you end
up putting a lot of autobiography in it, and and
did you too, did you do that? Did you feel
like you used a lot of stories from your your
own lives.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Our books have generally set in the past. Yeah, but
you've got your elephant, right, Yeah. Yeah, A lot of.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Book was set in modern modern India where I'd lived
for a decade, and the lead character was a policeman
in his forties. So yeah, actually that's true, that's very true.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
And so I think that I did do that, Like
there's a lot of like there's there's this plot a
plot about a stalker in there, and that that actually
is very true to what actually happened to me, and
so things like that. It gave me a way of
really telling about stories of things that have happened in
my TV life that I've never been able to or
(12:18):
haven't spoken about publicly before, but I can write in
a fictional sense, and got her hearts just drama. It's
just fiction.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Aside from being very, very cathartic by the sounds of it,
it's also an incredibly propulsive book. And it's very It
follows in the traditions of of some some really great
Hollywood films where the protagonist has someone in his ear
or someone telling them on the phone what to do.
And I remember a film with Liam Neeson. I think
he was on a train and he's being forced to
(12:45):
do with one wonderful things and and all sorts of
wonderful films like that. Was that a sort of inspiration?
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Like I just because I
kept whenever I talked to my career wherever I was
about hijack, it was you know, I was obvious that
it could be physically done in the sense of someone
grabs you around the neck and points says to camera
do as I say, or she gets it. But I
just I love locked room mysteries, and so I wanted
(13:13):
to do her. The reported to be in a really
secure location, and and this in one in particular as
a money printing factory. And I have been to a
money printing factory before, and they are insanely secure, Like
it's unbelievable how secure they are. So I like the
idea of a hijack happening in a place where actually
(13:34):
it's even harder to get in than it normally is.
And so and yet again that it's off the back
of my love of lockerroom mysteries, of various thrillers, of
Harlan Cormanavely. So it's just all all of that really
rulled into one.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Why were you in a money printing factory?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I was broadcasting from there, So I was doing a
story for BBC Breakfast about how money's printed, and I
was in it's the companies called De la Rue and
it's actually up in Newcastle and they have this you know,
you have to go through so many different layers of
security to get in. You're not allowed to got the
toilet on your own, you you're not allowed to show
(14:12):
the faces of the staff there in case, you know,
people find out they work there in blackmail, and like
just all of this stuff. You won't have phones. But
it was fascinating watching like the money roll off the printers,
because it was every currency you could think of, and
also if there was a defect in any of the money,
they wouldn't just be in it. They'd fly someone from
(14:33):
that country's denominated or whatever it is, you know, if
it's a run or whatever. Actually that's a bad example.
Let me say something else. If it was there were
print in reality or any real went I was there.
But so they bring in someone from the country that
the currency is from and get them to watch it
being destroyed so that it isn't You can't just throw
all the sheep of money in the bin, because then
(14:56):
someone nice one I use that as a forgery.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I'm a billionaire in the run.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Rules sound very much like the kind of rules they
have on TV shows about drug drug processing houses. You know,
everyone's got to be in their underwear so they don't
steal stuff. And you know, we have similar rules on
this podcast. There's not allowed to go to the toilet
on his own because he makes a mess and I don't.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
I don't know. I have been for seventeen hours.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, I can't show his space for obvious reasons, because.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
This is it. This is that's absolutely right, this is
this is digitized. I don't actually look like this head.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I've alluded to the fact, you've alluded to the fact
that you love crime fiction, and that's why you've written Deadline.
But why why crime fiction out of all the genres
you could have written.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Because I like the I like it for something to
happen that's unexplained and then to get resolved by the
end of it. I just like that as a process.
I have tried other genres in terms of reading, and
I just I tend to lose concentration because I want
I like drama, you know, I think fundamentally, I've spent
(16:05):
most of my career following drama and explaining drama to people.
That's been my job, like as a storyteller, but explaining
what's happening in the global economy or you know, why
Trump's decisions matter. All those things have drama and storytelling
to them, and so this feels like the natural genre
(16:29):
I would love and also want to write in. I
mean it did. It does also make it really intimidating,
because obviously there are so many authors I love who
I didn't. I don't feel like I could ever be
like like I be. Your book The Hunted amazing, you know,
and reading that you're like all of the different elements
in there, all the twists and twists that I didn't
(16:50):
guess and stuff. I just think it's so impressive how
many brilliant authors there are out there writing great stuff.
And I guess I don't know. I just I kind
of love I love reading it and writing.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
We all have that. We all have that at the beginning,
don't we have that? Imposters? We still have imposter syndrome.
But I remember when when Vas and I started, You
remember just being in the same room as people that
Mark Billingham or Val McDermott was just like, oh my gosh.
And now we're lucky enough to count these people as friends,
and it will be I have no doubt it will
be the same for you. I want to ask a
(17:27):
question going back in time again. Right, we've talked about
your stellar academic career, engineering background, your financial and now
analytical skills. We have not mentioned your Irish dancing background.
You are you are an Irish dancing champion? Are you not.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
In that?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Do you know? It's it was simply because the girl
over the road did it, and so I just went
with her to a lesson one day and I really
enjoyed it. Irish family and it was before it was trendy,
so it was before river Dance and all that, it
was just it just looked like a very weird form
of dance, you know, people with their arms still at
the sides and jumping them down, and then haven't had
(18:13):
curly hair for competitions and all that. But I don't know,
I just loved it. And I think I've got Irish
family actually, so it's not so there is that link
as well, and all my Irish family loved the fact
that I was doing Irish dancing, and then obviously River
Dance really made it blow up. And I think what
I loved about it was there weren't that many people
(18:34):
doing it when I did it, and therefore to compete
you often traveled and you'd go to other part you know,
you'd meet other people from other backgrounds, and that I
found that really interesting because fundamentally I am a nosy person,
so I just like meeting people and I like hearing
how they tick and what's going on in their life.
But particularly with this Irish dancing, I never knew what
(18:56):
anyone's parents did or anything like that, so there was
never that sense of like rich or poor or anything
like that. It was it felt like it was a
good leveler because all anyone cared about was whether you
were a good dancer or not, and you know that
type of thing. Not it didn't matter if you had
rich parents, so you didn't. And I quite like that
again that I think that social mixing is so good
(19:19):
for your own confidence when you are someone who comes
from an area which is you know, deprived or whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
You've mentioned that the issue of egalitarianism and confidence a
couple of times. Now, that's something that we need to
improve on, right, I mean, there's so many communities that
are left behind. How do we change things?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yeah, it totally And I think I think my biggest
beef about education without wanting to rant, but I'm going
to do a little mini rant, is we silo people
really early on. We say you're arty or your sciencey.
You can't be both. Apparently, we say you're clever or
you're thick, simply based on whether you can pass exams,
(19:58):
and exams need you to have structure at home to
be able to learn. They need you to have been
able to eat properly. They need things that Actually there's
a lot of families, particularly deprived families, who cannot provide,
often through no fault of their own so we just
I hate the fact that we separate people at such
a you know, and give them a label at such
a young age, and then that kind of sets them
(20:21):
off for their own thinking about themselves. There's so many
amazing entrepreneurs who I meet who will say, oh, I
was thick or you know, I wasn't very good at
school or whatever, and that is the school's fault that well,
not the teachers, but the states society. Yeah, yeah, it
is like it really drives me nuts that we do that,
and we we don't actually think about the fact people
(20:43):
learn differently, and I don't mean every individual getting us
bespoke like lesson planned, but just thinking more holistically about
what do we want our young people to leave school with.
We want them to leave school with the love of
the of learning and to you know, have learned stuff
to be able to help them in life, like financial
literacy and understanding if you are you know, if you're
(21:06):
a writer, how do you make money as a writer
and how does that work? And if you're an artist,
how do you how do you have that as a job.
But we don't. We just leave people to kind of
just figure it out for themselves. And that's impossible.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
You know, do you find, like Abera and I and
many other writers, I know that that these these these
thoughts that you have, these these these takes on society.
Do you find as you were writing. Did you find
as you were writing Deadline that some of those things
crept into the background.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Absolutely, And I think, you know, without giving the plot away,
there's a lot of my I guess beef with the
media and political bubble controlling the lives of everyone else
when they know so little about the lives of everyone else,
The assumptions that I made, the underestimations that I made,
(21:57):
like all of these things. That definitely is a an
unintended theme through the book, because, to be honest, when
I first had this idea about the hijack, I didn't
know why the hijack happened. I just knew I wanted
to do that, and I knew how it would be resolved,
and I knew, like what you know, that this hijack
would happen, But I didn't know why until I was
writing it. And then I started writing the characters, and
(22:19):
then I was like, that's what this is. Why it's
because they're so underestimated, and yeah, more fool the media
and political bubble for that, and then how do we
you know, how do we turn that on its head?
And so yeah, unintentionally it's it's got a got a
lot of my politics, but not party political in there.
(22:41):
Although it was funny because I did an interview with
a with with the press about it and it was
someone who clearly was a like quite a Poshtory who
said to me, you're very anti Tory in it, and
I'm like, no, I'm not. I don't mention at any
point where the political you know who the political party is. Oh,
well you're very anti South. No, I'm not like this,
no point. So again, is it just.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Because you're writing about Yeah, I know that you said
anti South there, but I heard anti sag you know
the spinach that you're getting in the food? Yeah, with
what was your beef with sog?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
And I've got no beef with sag?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
So what are you working on next? I mean, you
are so busy. Are you writing another book? Tell us
about that?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yes, I'm writing book two. So obviously I'm still doing
all my broadcast stuff. So fundamentally, I'm mainly talking about
what's going on in the global economy, which is horrendous,
and so doing that doing the podcast I do on that,
And I've been filming various series that are going to
come out which I can't tell you about yet. They're
coming out later in the year, and there's one exciting
(23:51):
one that's kind of linked to writing, but I will
I can't.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
I can't tell you steps at this point.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
I know because I told my editor about it the
other day and she was like, my book editor, fran
we I've learnt so much about the book world, by
the way. It's it's fascinating, isn't it. Like the process
it's it's so slow, like you finish a book and
then it's like two years later before anyone reads it.
So the second one has a couple of the same
(24:23):
characters from Deadline, but it's a completely different situation, so
it's not a television set or broadcast or anything like that.
And the character from Deadline who's kind of my main character,
Rose the reporter. She's in it, but she's more of
a sidekick narrator type in it rather than someone who's like,
(24:43):
you know, dead involved in the action. But it's it's
hard to tell you what it's about because it kind
of gives the plot away, but it's.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Tell us because we still were looking forward to book one.
Our readers are looking forward to book one.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Get yeah, sorry, working you have a title?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Oh yeah, I do have a working title, The Delivery Girl,
and it will makes sense. Yeah? When is it exactly?
Or is it setting in every van an Amazon parcel vane?
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Are you having We.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
May be waiting a bit longer than two years for.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
It exactly, and then you'll find it behind the back
of the bins.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I don't know what they call you, know you, you're
clearly We've seen you around for a few years now
at crime fiction events and festivals because you are often
called upon to present because of your charm and your
grace and your massive red ball gown. As we've already.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Discussed an existent one.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah, are you having fun? Are you having fun? The sharp?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
I think this is going to send you a ballgame
which you're going to have to wear. Now.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, well I can't wait. I mean, if that's if
that's what it takes, I'm happyople to do that. Am
I having fun? Absolutely? The thing that I've loved the
most about this is I have thoroughly enjoyed the writing process.
I've even enjoyed the editing process, which I know can
be quite hard. I mean, I've only read one book
(26:29):
that's been edited, but I've really enjoyed that. But more
than anything, I love the community, you know, the support
that you get from other authors. I work predominantly in
an industry full of bitches and so to you know,
to go into the book world, which feels I don't
(26:50):
get me wrong. There's an element of competition, of course
there is, but there's also a lot of like laughter
and fun and support and quizy is God. The crime
community love a good quiz and so I like that,
and like I felt, I felt welcomed, and I felt
that I've enjoyed it. I think the bit now, the
(27:12):
scary bit now for me is they're going out on
the book too, and all that, Like I my night
terror is about no one turning up is off the scale.
And you know, I'm someone who spent my life in
the public eye for the last twenty odd years, but
I'm really paranoid that I'm just going to be there
on my own.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
I do know what that's never going to happen. Do
you remember our first events? Our first event, there was
four people in the room. One was Vas's wife, one
was Vasus publicist, one was my publicist, and the other
person just walked in randomly.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
It was lost. You think the south Bank Center could
of drumming up an audience. So look, how did you.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Get over that? How did you like get through it?
Because I would never have left the house again. I'd
just be so embarrassed.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
No, we want that guy to buy a thousand books?
I want.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
I once did an event. I once did an event
in South London where it was me, two people and
a bottle of wine. And it was a brilliant event
because there was an off license next door. So we've
got three bottles of wine and I can't remember what
we discussed, but it was fantastic. Yeah, so even the
small ones work. I think size isn't everything?
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Is it? Fast? Well you should know that better than anyone.
So you have an issue. You're already a household name,
so for you, I think people would Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
But the other thing is, and you'll have an opinion
on this, whether you want to voice it, I don't know.
The other thing is there's a real like beef with
people like me writing books who haven't written them themselves.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
But I have no, we know you.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Have who hasn't who hasn't written their book. It's very
very quickly. The word gets around very quickly. Yeah, well
there was.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
There was There was a book on that list, on
the British Book Award Crime Book of the Year list
that was ghost written that people didn't pick up on. Right,
So there are these things. But you are one of
the good ones. We know that because the effort you've
put in, and so you will be taken to everybody's heart,
whereas there are certain others who haven't written their books
(29:19):
and are in it for the money, and that's not
so nice.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
But as long as you've got people that you because
I've obviously come with a lot of privilege because of
my profile publicly, but for authors, you know, and you
see them all at all these events. You two were
obviously two of the big superstars in the industry, but
you see lots of people, don't you, who are probably
they might have an amazing book in them, but it's
(29:43):
just so hard to get in because it's such a
bunny market. And you think, you like, yeah, and that's.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
The way I look at it. Stuff is very simple.
All of us have previous and other careers before we
enter the industry. It just so happens. At some peop
people have careers that give them big platforms and that
helped them in their book industry. I mean, Bear and
I came from accountancy and management backgrounds, which doesn't really
help sell a load of books. But if we had
(30:12):
had the platforms that you or others broadcasting world had,
of course we would have used them. Why wouldn't we
have so.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I know we would still write our books.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yes, as long as people write their books and are
honest about it. I don't even have an issue with
people who use ghostwriters but are completely open and transparent
about it. Yes, true, the ghostwriter get I.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Don't see the point that I didn't see the point
of that, beast. I can understand if it's a biography.
I can understand it's a biography, But well, it's fiction.
It's just your name on somebody else's work.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I've got a solution to this because I was talking
to my friend about it yesterday. Why can't it be
the author's name and then have inspired by and have
whoever it is are like? You know, I have bought
you know, Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
And Luis's business a business to see you stick a
famous person's name.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, but it's still got the famous person's name on.
But it's just also credit in the person.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
You take all of James Patterson's recent outputs, right, most
of them are are co written, as he says, with
his stable of co writers.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Clinton's and everyone else.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, you have his name in massive font at the
top and the other writers at the bottom. So he
does credit the other party, but there are others who don't.
James Patterson is the name that sells and publishers not.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
So it's like Wilbur Smith. Wilburg Smith is still writing
books despite being dead right.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Aggressive, very impressive up and still still churning him up.
All right, stepf we've come to the end of this
amazingly lovely Oh yes, unfortunately literal. You put that red
ball gown on.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I have a I still have a question for you
though before you let me go, and I mentioned this
at the Capitol Crime Awards. What how how are you
are doing the most extreme journey from Newcastle where we're
both appearing at something together and then have to be
in talkie the next morning. I suggested we go together,
but you are literally doing some like epic journey between
(32:13):
the two places.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, it's because I have two weeks worth of events
and I've just my missus decided to come with me.
He didn't trust me away from home for two weeks,
so I'm going to So the best way was for
me to take my car rather than take trains because
from talkie, I have to go to Cornwall for an
event and I have to go to Wales for a
couple of events. I mean, it's just it's lovely, but
it's also going to be very draining.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Can I tell you why his wife doesn't trust him.
It's not what you think, ladies and gentlemen. They just
she just doesn't trust him eating healthily. The minute he
goes on to he eats kebabs and send sends photos
to his wife of other people eating salad. This is
my munching on chips.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
I did that once. I'm tak and you and Steph
you know that this man. Every time we go on
a drive together to some festival, he forces me forces
me to stop at a KF.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
You need to get sponsors KFC, you too, You know
what should be in collaboration with.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
I'd actually prefer Nando's. I'm going up in the world
now and Nando's no, but I'm not allowed at home,
so I'm am I trying to sneak one.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
And then again, last word, Steph, when when is deadline out?
Just for we know when it's out, but for the
sake of the listeners.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Third of July, So yeah, it's out. Then it's it's
out the same day as like flipping Lisa Jewel and
all sorts of people. So I'm kind of telling everyone
to buy all that books not mine.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Guys. If you love Lisa Jewels stuff, if you love
great thrillers, then Steph McGovern's deadline is the one to buy.
On the third this Thursday, Steph is lovely chatting to you.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Thank you you too lovely to see you. We'll see
you soon.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
And that brings us to the clothes of another episode
once again. If you've liked the show, can we ask
you to leave review, sign up for regular podcast episodes
in your favorite app, and please do spread the word
so vast. Do you think Steph can teach us to
be champion Irish Dancers?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
No, harrogate, that's my challenge.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
We will learn. We will learn.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
After the quiz, You and I and the.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Two of you, we'll say that, and we will learn
Irish dancing as well. And on that rather uplifting note,
we have been your friends. The Red Hot Chilly Writers
on Murder Junction
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