August 11, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode we chat to crime writer Heidi Amsinck about her Copenhagen-set crime novel Out of the Dark and life in the UK for a Danish-born journalist
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Murder Junction. Everyone. This week on the show,
we are talking to Heidi. I'm SYNC award winning Danish
born journalist turned crime writer Hidi. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hello Heidi, how are you?
Speaker 4 (00:18):
I'm very well, Thank you, Aber, And I feel like
I'm not worthy of this session. I'm two with two
kind of crime writing, you know, members of the Royalty.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I thought you were going to say two crime writing idiots,
but thank you idiot would be more app because what's
happening now to dear listeners. You can't see. This is
Abber from his on his basement dungeon in Woking, and
I'm bearing in mind, I'm sitting in East London. Abber
is pointing a laser pointer at the camp at your face.
(00:51):
He doesn't seem to realize that a laser pointer does
have to be within the vicinity of the person that
you're pointing it at for it to have any effect whatsoever.
But he can't help it.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I must say hide if you don't mind, Do you
not think Vassine looks like he's just stepped out of surgery,
like as a doctor, not as a patient. For a change,
He's sort addressed in like what looks like surgical scrubs.
He looks a mess. It's just come on here, as
if he's just done open heart surgery.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Is that what you've I don't think he.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Looks a mess at all. I think he looks very authoritative.
He's got that kind of you know, bearing about him.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Well, thank you, thank you. Heidi.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
He really doesn't, Hidi, he really doesn't. And you know,
growling crawling up to Vassim might get you places in
the industry. I agree, But on this, on this podcast,
it gets you nowhere.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It got it onto the podcast in the first place.
You go ahead, gladly will get you. Gladly will get
you everywhere. Let's start with an intro from you. Tell
us a little bit about where you grew up, because
it is quite exotic for us Brits.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Not all that it's only an hour's flight the way
that I was born in Copenhagen. I lived there the
first six years of my life, and then my dad
got a job in another part of Denmark, a town
called Annas. I did spend twelve years there and I
actually had work experience with the police in my local town.
(02:16):
So sixty thousand people slightly faded glory former sort of
industrial power that has sort of gone downhill a bit.
That's where I grew up. It was just your kind
of average town. There was a bit of problems with
sort of drugs and criminality, but I didn't really see
that side of it then. So this is all based
(02:37):
on stuff I've learnt since I live in Subark in
the middle of London, quite close to the river. But
I did live in Guildford for many years, So basically
I came here in my when I'd graduated from university.
I came straight here a week after my graduation and
I kind of never left. But I've lived in North
(02:58):
London for many years. I lived in Guildford for many
years and now I live in SOUTHWK.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Lovely Guildford. Lovely Guildford. I always thought you lived Gotland
for some reason. I don't know why I thought that.
I assumed you were a Scottish then what brought you
to the UK?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So I was.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
On my degrees in journalism.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I studied history first and then journalism and my editor
was from the same sorry, the editor of the newspaper
I trained with was from the same city in Denmark,
Ranas and He liked people who came from that city,
so when they lost their correspondent in London, he knew
I loved London, so he sent me there. So I
(03:44):
went out as a foreign correspondent a week after my
graduation and started covering British news. My English wasn't very
good then, and I came It was kind of before
it was when we had sort of dialogue modems and
things like that, so being a foreign.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Correspondent was a little bit front.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
And I came with a very small kind of predecessor
to the MacBook, a Tandy two hundred. I don't know
if that says anything to you. We had this very
complicated arrangement with you know, dialing in, dialing in your
your stories and so on. We still had fax machines.
And I came over and I started covering financial news,
(04:21):
and so it was Denmark's financial newspaper, so I covered
the city and so on.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Well that's pretty cool. Straight out of university and a
couple of weeks later you're the London financial correspondent for.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, that's right. It was.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Actually it's called Berson. It's like Burston's titling in Germany.
But it's a person in Denmark, and it's just a fine,
you know, kind of pink financial newspaper. But and then
later on I went on to work for the broadsheet.
But I didn't know I mean, I remember I didn't
know the words for commodities, equity bonds. I didn't know
(05:00):
these words. I basically had to learn them the kind
of baptism by fire. Let me get but it was
always really fun.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But let me get this right. They put you in
charge of the financial beat even though you didn't know
what any of these financial instruments were. I knew what
they were, but.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I didn't know the English words for them. So, yeah,
I've always been interested in business and finance.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And were you you were working with another were you
working on list of thrown in at the deep end?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
I was just thrown in at the deep end, but
I did because Denmark is very small, so it's sort
of nearly six round six million people. But I basically
clubbed together with my Swedish and Finnish and Norwegian colleague
and we presented ourselves as Scandinavia and we went out
and we did get quite a few interviews like that,
(05:52):
just kind of coming out as a group because I
knew nobody would give me an interview as a danger.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I just kind of, you know, youthful confidence.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
I knew a lot more than I do now, got
I knew everything, and I just kind of threw myself
into it. But I loved London. I always have loved London.
So that was the major bonus for me. And then
there was kind of Nick Leeson and the Bearings Bank.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
There were so many, so many stories during those years.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
And you moved here permanently, aged how long have you
been living here permanently?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
So I've lived here. So I came aged twenty four
in ninety two, so I'll let you work out my
age A long time ago, a long time ago. But yeah,
I was twenty four. And then, you know, you never
really decide to in Europe at that time when you
(06:51):
were a member of the European Union over here, you know,
you didn't have to decide to immigrate, you just decided
to live in this kind So twenty sixteen the vote
was a you know, that was a big shock to
the system. And I became a British citizen at that
time because I I knew I didn't want to leave,
(07:12):
and I didn't want anybody to have an excuse to
kick me out.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
But even after so many years.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I had to go through jump through a lot of
hoops to become a British citizen. And yeah two and
I now I you know, never say never, but I
dare say I won't be returning to Denmark maybe in
my old age when I want some proper welfare states.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Well might we might all join you?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
We might. You're talking to two guys who have accountancy
degrees from LS so we are completely incapable of doing
the simple mass to work out your from what you've
told us. So let's just gloss over that and go
into your right career. Let's talk about your debut novel.
My name is Jensen or Jensen. I'm not sure how
(07:58):
to Jensen.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yes, I'm going to say, is that very good? At beer?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Very very good? And this was written during lockdown? Is
that correct?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
So I've written short stories kind of all my life,
and about twenty years ago I took Creative writing masters
from bok Big College.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It was I was in the first cohort of that.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Master's and because I kind of knew that I couldn't
if I wasn't going to return to Denmark. Writing in
Danish would be no good, so I kind of had
to I had to start writing in English. And then
at the same time I started getting stories on radio
from from Denmark, sort of slightly gothic, kind of spooky
(08:45):
stories from Copenhagen. I just don't ask me why it
had to be that way. And then in Lockdown, I
guess in twenty eighteen, I started thinking maybe I should
just keep writing. I read an interview with who wrote
Lincoln in the Bardo? Was that George Saunders?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
George Saunders, George Saunders.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Yeah, And I read an interview with him in The
Guardian where he said that, yeah, I think he was
a short story writer. And he said, it's actually the same.
If you know how to write a short story, you
know how to write a novel. It's just it's it's
still a tent. It's just got more tent poles and
more canvas. And I really liked that idea. And in
Lockdown and I've got to try the house because.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I basically.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
In twenty ten I started working for a bank in
the city as a sort of communications head of content.
And though I was working full time, so getting the
time to do. It came with lockdown when nobody could
go into the office, and I was kind of stuck
here in this flat and I just moved in and
(09:50):
I had furniture.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, you've got to tell us the plot. You've got
to tell us, you've got to sell this book. My
name is Jensen, tell us the plot.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
My name, My name is Jenson, and it is basically
it's not that far from reality. So basically it's a correspondent,
London correspondent who has returned home to Copenhagen. I thought
that was the easiest way to get to tell you
all about the city, because if you're Danish and you're
(10:18):
immersed in the city, there's no reason to point out
the strange things that Danish people do that this person
coming back might see things as a stranger. And so
she's kind of living a little bit on the periphery
of the city. But she works at a newspaper that
has a lot in common with an actual newspaper, but
it's not called the same, but that has its main
(10:40):
head office on the Central Square and Copenhagen. She's walking
to work one morning, dragging her pushing her bike through
the snow, and she comes across the body of a
young man who has kind of been buried in the snow.
There's been a blizzard overnight, and he sits in the
snow and starts this kind of rolling. The police immediately
(11:01):
thinks that he's a migrant and homeless, but they kind
of make some assumptions that she challenges, and then we
start this thing, which has been a recurrent story through
the four books now five books very soon to be
five books, where she has a former boyfriend in the police.
(11:23):
I kind of had to invent him because I couldn't
get close enough to the investigation without it. So these
two he works for the police, she works for the newspaper,
and they have very different methods, but together they, you know,
they kind of solved the crime. And she also has
an apprentice, a seventeen year old called Gostar, who is
(11:44):
a bit of light relief. I think for myself as
much as anything. As I was writing it and my son,
who was at a university at the time and everybody
got sent home, so he was with me here in
flat and I used to write a chapter for him,
and then id of invented this character because you know,
he was there and I've actually enjoyed that boy more
(12:06):
than anything in the books.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I like this apprentice.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Well, it was a very successful book. I mean, and
I read it and as you know, and I really
enjoyed it. But it also won the Danish Criminal Academy's
Debut Award, quite an honor for a first novel. I
mean amazing. And Ian Rankin said when I quote Dark
Deed and Deep Secret about in Heidi Unsink's Copenhagen a
(12:33):
white knuckle ride into Hell, I know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That was incredible.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
I mean, Ian Rankin, is there a nicer prime writer
out there? Is there a kinder person, more generous person
with his time? I'm not the only one.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
The do you know?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Why? Is that why you're coughing?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Just said? Is lovely? Of course he is, but there
may be others in the room or in the vicinity.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You are, of course also known for your kindness.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
But as you know, it's a very it's a very
welcoming community. Bear you actually with my third book, you
actually gave me a jacket quote grateful for.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
So you thank you.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It's it's very rare that that people will say no
if you ask nicely, And at this time of my career,
I can't offer a lot back. I'm just an amateur
compared to you two, with all your books and all
your accolades.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Not at all. I know she is. I know she's
really recording the kettle black.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I think I think you are considered a younger than me.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
No, I don't think there's any such thing. I think
what it is is people who have some grasp of
the craft of writing. And I think a lot of
journalists come into writing novels with at least that basic,
basic grasp of the skills needed to put together, you know,
reasonably polished, polished pros, and then it's just a matter of.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Unlike celebrities like ballroom dancers or TV judges that sort
of things, that what you mean, Fast.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I did not say that, do you put words in
my mouth?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I was just asking. I was just I was just
asking fast.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I mean, I mean, yes, the typical ballroom dancers probably
is not as polished, but then that's why they have
polished writers just helped them.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
What I actually think it's it's not that straightforward. I
felt I felt like I had.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
To teach myself how to do it, and it was hard.
There's no no one can kind of tell you how
to do it, because essentially it has to.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Be your own story. I found it really hard because
in journalism.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I would never you know, I just I wrote the
headline first head and then I roll up the article
and I basically keep going.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
And at the end you have.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
The least important things, because the editor might just cut
off your article after a hunder words and as it
and that's not the way at all to do it.
In crime writing, you have to deliberately kind of prevent
people from understanding what's happening is I think it's really
different to journalism, and I think you have to really
learn I guess the love of language. Maybe is there
(15:28):
the heart, but you have to kind of learn it
all over again.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I do like that comparison.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I try to do this. I try to write it down,
but there's so many layers of the story. There's what
actually happened in the crime novel. I usually start by
writing that down. Then that's not the story you can
put in the book. So then you have to say
in what speed and at what point do people in
do the characters know what is happening in the story.
(15:54):
That's another layer, and then you have your red herrings.
That's another layer.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, you know, I find it hard.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
But of course the best way to learn how to
write a crime novel is to read a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So I do that. I read a lot, and what.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I write in English, I write in English, and then
I get I basically get translated back into Danish by
a very nice lady who's very very good at that
and much better than me. So I write in English. Yeah,
I can't do it the other way around. Now. I
think it's because writing a novel is essentially like sitting
(16:36):
around a campfire telling somebody a story.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And if the people sitting.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Around the campfire are speaking a certain language, you wouldn't
start speaking another language to them.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And that's what I think I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
So my friends and family are here, my children are here,
so if I want to tell them about something that's
happening back home, I'll do it in their language, in
their using your idioms, your And that's the only way
I can explain it.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But it's not it's not a conscious choice. It's just
that's just the way it is.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Now.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
That's what works.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Abbe writes in Glaswegian Scotch and then has to translated
to English and all the swearing has to come out.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
There is there is, There is a lot of swearing.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
You wanted to know what I've been up to, I've
been I'll tell you what. Let me tell you about this.
This is intriguing. So I was sent a handwritten I.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Asked that question fifteen minutes ago. Is it just registered
in your head?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yes? I'm old? What can I say?
Speaker 4 (17:31):
So?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I was sent a handwritten letter this week by one
of my readers, and she'd read everything I'd ever written.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
A sease and desist.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
It was, it absolutely was. She was absolutely livid with
me because she just read The Girl in sir La,
which you know is my first psychological thriller written in
a different style. And she took me to task because
she'd encountered a swear word which I'd never used in
any of my previous ten ten books. And she said,
(18:01):
I didn't do you actually know any swear words? Clearly
I do enough to get this lady, What.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Did you say? Did you say, oh, fudge? Is that
what you said? Fudge?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Something along those lines? Was she was? She said that
you have destroyed my hope in writing. You have completely
ruined all of your previous books for me because I
never thought that you were the type of person to
use such a word, such a profan and she's not
even left put her address on. So I even write
back to her to say that I'm very quite.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Right, you can swearing to you going to get some
more of you're swearing quite terrible, man.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I felt quite upset. I mean, I didn't know that
people could get so irate about the use of a
swear word. You can kill.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
People, you can get people, but you can't swear.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That. How did you, I mean, how did you write?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
How did you find writing that book which was such
a departure from your other books? Because do you know
what I'm saying when I say that you have to
teach us.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
How this one's quite good?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, that's quite good when you've had the same experience it,
you know, having to write outside of outside of our well,
not comfort zone, because nothing is ever comfortable in this industry,
but writing a series which of a of an environment
that we know so well, and then trying to take
our meager skills and transplant them to America and a
(19:28):
different kind of genre. It's not easy. And that's why
I think your.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
One to a long time yeah, my.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
One took me well over two years, so not easy,
is the answer. But anyway, the right or.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I was going to ask you about this actually today
because I'm thinking, when do you when is it safe
to let go of the area in which you have
some natural authority? So I know Copenhagen really well, so
I'm in my comfort zone when so I'm I'm going
to write my next book is a standalone and I
was thinking, I have to set this in Denmark, And
(20:05):
then I thought why do I have to sit it
in Denmark? And I when do you become When? When
is it okay to story and just write you know,
whatever you want?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But do you know what I'm saying, it's.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Been Yeah, it's okay. When you can convince your editors
that it's okay. That's the minute it becomes okay. You know,
they'll they'll want you to do the same thing again
and again because they know it works. But when you
can convince them that you want to write something else,
or you can write something else in fast and my case,
we fooled them, well, didn't we, Vass.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
The only thing I'd add to that is you've got
to convince yourself as well, because You've got to feel
ready and able to do that, and then if you
can get someone to pay you to do it, that's
the That's the perfect scenario, right because you can always
go off book and write it on spec and hope
for the best, but it's always better if you're if,
as Aba says, you can convince your editorial team or
(20:58):
another editorial team to a pay for it and be
help you through that that process to find a new
voice and a new location and all the rest of
it that comes with writing.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Did you say it took you two years to write
Girl and Sealo did?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
It did because not just because it was a genre
I hadn't covered psychological thrillers, but also because I had
to read a ton of them. I mean, I'd always
liked them, but I had to, you know, double up
on that reading to try and get a feel for
what's working and what's not. And then I'd written one
hundred thousand words and then I realized that it didn't
quite work, and that the reason is because I needed
(21:32):
to change it from third person to first person and
past tense to present tens, as most of the books
in that place in that genre are written. So that's
why it took so what do you what are you
thinking of? Where are you moving to?
Speaker 4 (21:49):
So I was thinking, so, I'm going to write something
sort of more Gothic next, because I loved Gothic and
I thought I really loved to I'd really love to
set it on a remote Scottish island because it's very,
very difficult to get remote in my country. We have
(22:09):
I think two hundred and forty islands or so, but
there's so near land and I really yearned to write
something set in an isolated environment where you can't just
get away. And yeah, I'm just really attracted to that
kind of you know set. I love setting, and I
(22:32):
thought why not?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I mean I was in Butte, the Lovely Butte last
weekend for but Noir.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
We missed you there, and I was just thinking, why
why can't I said it?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Here?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Is it? You know?
Speaker 4 (22:47):
It's about It's that sort of authenticity. It's both something
to do with external factors, but also about your own
confidence in writing about something that's far away from your
from your own world. I mean a beer with hunted.
I guess there were some themes that you are familiar with,
more familiar with, or some of the characters were more
(23:11):
recognizable from some of your other books. But I thought
it was well, yeah, I don't want to phone, but
I thought it was. I loved it though. It was
such a page turner and very credible, authentic story. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I mean it did take an awful long time, but
three years, and as you say, some of the characters,
the characters that I'm familiar with. America I think is
slightly easier than a lot of places because we are
so aware of American culture, an American life. We see
it in all its forms, well in many of its forms,
every day and every night on our TVs and on
(23:48):
the internet. So America, even though it's a foreign culture,
is one that I think we're all immersed in. Writing
a book in about a culture or set in a
place that you're not familiar with, I think is harder.
But Butte is Britain. You know, a Scottish island is
still Britain. There are elements there that you can draw on.
(24:08):
There's enough commonality for you for you to do. I
would suggest a couple of weeks or a month's holiday
up there and that will give you, that will immerse
you in the in the culture of the place, the
humor of a place. I always find the humor of
a place is very important for setting exactly when you
can understand what makes people laugh, you understand a lot
(24:29):
about them and what makes you laugh.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, I'm looking at him right now. But a but.
And the other thing to remember, of course, is that
research trips of this nature are all tax deductible. Right
time is ticking id so as we finish, I want
to ask you about the latest. So give give us
a good plug, give us the pitch for my book
of the Dark.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
But out of the dark we have pregnant.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
She's pregnant and she is running around Copenhagen trying to
find a missing child.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So I mentioned Peter Files before.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I worked with a unit in the Danish police that
spent their time investigating child sexual abuse material online and
that sort of got me thinking and I wanted to
really I wanted to write a book about the work
of that unit. So I transferred it to Copenhagen from
(25:33):
the other part of Denmark and I basically we have
a story about a child who goes missing in Copenhagen
from a playground in the middle of the city just
before Christmas, and eventually the investigator. The lead investigator is
this guy Jensen has a relationship with called Henrik Henrik
(25:54):
Jungers and DII Henrik Jungerson. Then he starts remembering a
previous case and some pictures emerge that have a similar origin,
and gradually they sort of begin to find out that
these cases are related. But so it's basically a missing
child mystery, but it's linked to a pedophile ring investigation. However,
(26:19):
I should stress that my books are very much focused
on the investigation and the investigators, and the environment and
the victims of crime, sorry, the relatives and victims, rather
than I don't really go inside the head of the perpetrators,
and I don't spend a lot of time describing the crimes.
(26:40):
So people are a bit worried about it being explicit.
It isn't because it's not really. It's not an easy
subject matter. It's an incredibly difficult book to write for
that reason. But I really wanted to because I was
kind of driven by anger as well, and I think
journalism and writing has something in common.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is that passion that drives you.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
To watch to tell a story was basically my my
kind of frustration with the proliferation of this kind of crime,
you know, it's it's just it's massive. It's a massive,
global industry and it's it's absolutely horrific. So I wanted
to write an investigation where actually they managed to get
to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
And this is Out of the Dog and it's out
when Out of the Doubt.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Was out in April, so has been out for a while.
And my next book, so number five, is coming out
next April, and it's called A Woman in the Wall
and it's a continuation but more of a sort of
an origin story. And you might even get Jensen's first
name in the next book.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
We don't know that.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, So okay, so well we we know what you're
writing next because you've just told us, and we know
what you're after that as well, which is your Pandelonia
Gothic Gothic epic set in the Outer Hebrides.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I might go back to Denmark.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I might just invent an island.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
But yeah, you call it. I don't know, the Mukage
corn Land. It's been absolutely lovely having you, having you
on the show, and before my my colleague leads us
out with the outro, thank you for coming and spending
spending half an hour or so with us.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Thank you so much, Heidi. That was great fun, you know.
Also it meant the team didn't do very much talking.
All we learned from him this week was that his
one fan has left them. That's what you're going to
do now, you're going to swear a bit more.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Well, I've got two fans. I've got your mom and
this lady.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
My mom out of this. Oh my word, do you
know what it's true? Actually she's got more of your
books than she has of mine, which I find quite upsetting.
She keeps claiming that she's giving mine to her friends,
but she doesn't give yours to her friends, which I
can understand. I mean, she likes her friends. But anyway,
on that bombshell, that brings us to the end of
(29:08):
another episode. Once again, if you've liked the show, can
we ask you to leave reviews, sign up for regular
episodes using your favorite podcast app, and please do spread
the word. But see, if we were to set a
book in Scandinavia, which country would we set it in
and why oh what would the crime be?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Well, it would be with the Cweden obviously, It'd be
in Sweden and it would be in the forest that
will Deane lives in. Yes, that's good. We've got an invite.
We've got a standing invite.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Let's go and murder will do good idea.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
It writes it.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
We are ladies and gentlemen. If you're up for that,
please you know we'll set up some crowdfunder app for
the crowdfunder group, and you can fund our trip to Sweden,
where we may or may not hurt the handsomest man
in crime fiction, wil Den. And on that note, ladies
and gentlemen, we have been your friends. The Red Hot
(30:07):
Chili writers on Murder Junction see you next time.
Welcome to Murder Junction. Everyone. This week on the show,
we are talking to Heidi. I'm SYNC award winning Danish
born journalist turned crime writer Hidi. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hello Heidi, how are you?
Speaker 4 (00:18):
I'm very well, Thank you, Aber, And I feel like
I'm not worthy of this session. I'm two with two
kind of crime writing, you know, members of the Royalty.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I thought you were going to say two crime writing idiots,
but thank you idiot would be more app because what's
happening now to dear listeners. You can't see. This is
Abber from his on his basement dungeon in Woking, and
I'm bearing in mind, I'm sitting in East London. Abber
is pointing a laser pointer at the camp at your face.
(00:51):
He doesn't seem to realize that a laser pointer does
have to be within the vicinity of the person that
you're pointing it at for it to have any effect whatsoever.
But he can't help it.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I must say hide if you don't mind, Do you
not think Vassine looks like he's just stepped out of surgery,
like as a doctor, not as a patient. For a change,
He's sort addressed in like what looks like surgical scrubs.
He looks a mess. It's just come on here, as
if he's just done open heart surgery.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Is that what you've I don't think he.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Looks a mess at all. I think he looks very authoritative.
He's got that kind of you know, bearing about him.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Well, thank you, thank you. Heidi.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
He really doesn't, Hidi, he really doesn't. And you know,
growling crawling up to Vassim might get you places in
the industry. I agree, But on this, on this podcast,
it gets you nowhere.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
It got it onto the podcast in the first place.
You go ahead, gladly will get you. Gladly will get
you everywhere. Let's start with an intro from you. Tell
us a little bit about where you grew up, because
it is quite exotic for us Brits.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Not all that it's only an hour's flight the way
that I was born in Copenhagen. I lived there the
first six years of my life, and then my dad
got a job in another part of Denmark, a town
called Annas. I did spend twelve years there and I
actually had work experience with the police in my local town.
(02:16):
So sixty thousand people slightly faded glory former sort of
industrial power that has sort of gone downhill a bit.
That's where I grew up. It was just your kind
of average town. There was a bit of problems with
sort of drugs and criminality, but I didn't really see
that side of it then. So this is all based
(02:37):
on stuff I've learnt since I live in Subark in
the middle of London, quite close to the river. But
I did live in Guildford for many years, So basically
I came here in my when I'd graduated from university.
I came straight here a week after my graduation and
I kind of never left. But I've lived in North
(02:58):
London for many years. I lived in Guildford for many
years and now I live in SOUTHWK.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Lovely Guildford. Lovely Guildford. I always thought you lived Gotland
for some reason. I don't know why I thought that.
I assumed you were a Scottish then what brought you
to the UK?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
So I was.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
On my degrees in journalism.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
I studied history first and then journalism and my editor
was from the same sorry, the editor of the newspaper
I trained with was from the same city in Denmark,
Ranas and He liked people who came from that city,
so when they lost their correspondent in London, he knew
I loved London, so he sent me there. So I
(03:44):
went out as a foreign correspondent a week after my
graduation and started covering British news. My English wasn't very
good then, and I came It was kind of before
it was when we had sort of dialogue modems and
things like that, so being a foreign.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Correspondent was a little bit front.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
And I came with a very small kind of predecessor
to the MacBook, a Tandy two hundred. I don't know
if that says anything to you. We had this very
complicated arrangement with you know, dialing in, dialing in your
your stories and so on. We still had fax machines.
And I came over and I started covering financial news,
(04:21):
and so it was Denmark's financial newspaper, so I covered
the city and so on.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Well that's pretty cool. Straight out of university and a
couple of weeks later you're the London financial correspondent for.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, that's right. It was.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Actually it's called Berson. It's like Burston's titling in Germany.
But it's a person in Denmark, and it's just a fine,
you know, kind of pink financial newspaper. But and then
later on I went on to work for the broadsheet.
But I didn't know I mean, I remember I didn't
know the words for commodities, equity bonds. I didn't know
(05:00):
these words. I basically had to learn them the kind
of baptism by fire. Let me get but it was
always really fun.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
But let me get this right. They put you in
charge of the financial beat even though you didn't know
what any of these financial instruments were. I knew what
they were, but.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I didn't know the English words for them. So, yeah,
I've always been interested in business and finance.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
And were you you were working with another were you
working on list of thrown in at the deep end?
Speaker 4 (05:30):
I was just thrown in at the deep end, but
I did because Denmark is very small, so it's sort
of nearly six round six million people. But I basically
clubbed together with my Swedish and Finnish and Norwegian colleague
and we presented ourselves as Scandinavia and we went out
and we did get quite a few interviews like that,
(05:52):
just kind of coming out as a group because I
knew nobody would give me an interview as a danger.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I just kind of, you know, youthful confidence.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
I knew a lot more than I do now, got
I knew everything, and I just kind of threw myself
into it. But I loved London. I always have loved London.
So that was the major bonus for me. And then
there was kind of Nick Leeson and the Bearings Bank.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
There were so many, so many stories during those years.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
And you moved here permanently, aged how long have you
been living here permanently?
Speaker 4 (06:29):
So I've lived here. So I came aged twenty four
in ninety two, so I'll let you work out my
age A long time ago, a long time ago. But yeah,
I was twenty four. And then, you know, you never
really decide to in Europe at that time when you
(06:51):
were a member of the European Union over here, you know,
you didn't have to decide to immigrate, you just decided
to live in this kind So twenty sixteen the vote
was a you know, that was a big shock to
the system. And I became a British citizen at that
time because I I knew I didn't want to leave,
(07:12):
and I didn't want anybody to have an excuse to
kick me out.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
But even after so many years.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
I had to go through jump through a lot of
hoops to become a British citizen. And yeah two and
I now I you know, never say never, but I
dare say I won't be returning to Denmark maybe in
my old age when I want some proper welfare states.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Well might we might all join you?
Speaker 1 (07:37):
We might. You're talking to two guys who have accountancy
degrees from LS so we are completely incapable of doing
the simple mass to work out your from what you've
told us. So let's just gloss over that and go
into your right career. Let's talk about your debut novel.
My name is Jensen or Jensen. I'm not sure how
(07:58):
to Jensen.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yes, I'm going to say, is that very good? At beer?
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Very very good? And this was written during lockdown? Is
that correct?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:09):
So I've written short stories kind of all my life,
and about twenty years ago I took Creative writing masters
from bok Big College.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
It was I was in the first cohort of that.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Master's and because I kind of knew that I couldn't
if I wasn't going to return to Denmark. Writing in
Danish would be no good, so I kind of had
to I had to start writing in English. And then
at the same time I started getting stories on radio
from from Denmark, sort of slightly gothic, kind of spooky
(08:45):
stories from Copenhagen. I just don't ask me why it
had to be that way. And then in Lockdown, I
guess in twenty eighteen, I started thinking maybe I should
just keep writing. I read an interview with who wrote
Lincoln in the Bardo? Was that George Saunders?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
George Saunders, George Saunders.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
Yeah, And I read an interview with him in The
Guardian where he said that, yeah, I think he was
a short story writer. And he said, it's actually the same.
If you know how to write a short story, you
know how to write a novel. It's just it's it's
still a tent. It's just got more tent poles and
more canvas. And I really liked that idea. And in
Lockdown and I've got to try the house because.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
I basically.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
In twenty ten I started working for a bank in
the city as a sort of communications head of content.
And though I was working full time, so getting the
time to do. It came with lockdown when nobody could
go into the office, and I was kind of stuck
here in this flat and I just moved in and
(09:50):
I had furniture.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Yeah, you've got to tell us the plot. You've got
to tell us, you've got to sell this book. My
name is Jensen, tell us the plot.
Speaker 4 (09:58):
My name, My name is Jenson, and it is basically
it's not that far from reality. So basically it's a correspondent,
London correspondent who has returned home to Copenhagen. I thought
that was the easiest way to get to tell you
all about the city, because if you're Danish and you're
(10:18):
immersed in the city, there's no reason to point out
the strange things that Danish people do that this person
coming back might see things as a stranger. And so
she's kind of living a little bit on the periphery
of the city. But she works at a newspaper that
has a lot in common with an actual newspaper, but
it's not called the same, but that has its main
(10:40):
head office on the Central Square and Copenhagen. She's walking
to work one morning, dragging her pushing her bike through
the snow, and she comes across the body of a
young man who has kind of been buried in the snow.
There's been a blizzard overnight, and he sits in the
snow and starts this kind of rolling. The police immediately
(11:01):
thinks that he's a migrant and homeless, but they kind
of make some assumptions that she challenges, and then we
start this thing, which has been a recurrent story through
the four books now five books very soon to be
five books, where she has a former boyfriend in the police.
(11:23):
I kind of had to invent him because I couldn't
get close enough to the investigation without it. So these
two he works for the police, she works for the newspaper,
and they have very different methods, but together they, you know,
they kind of solved the crime. And she also has
an apprentice, a seventeen year old called Gostar, who is
(11:44):
a bit of light relief. I think for myself as
much as anything. As I was writing it and my son,
who was at a university at the time and everybody
got sent home, so he was with me here in
flat and I used to write a chapter for him,
and then id of invented this character because you know,
he was there and I've actually enjoyed that boy more
(12:06):
than anything in the books.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I like this apprentice.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Well, it was a very successful book. I mean, and
I read it and as you know, and I really
enjoyed it. But it also won the Danish Criminal Academy's
Debut Award, quite an honor for a first novel. I
mean amazing. And Ian Rankin said when I quote Dark
Deed and Deep Secret about in Heidi Unsink's Copenhagen a
(12:33):
white knuckle ride into Hell, I know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
That was incredible.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
I mean, Ian Rankin, is there a nicer prime writer
out there? Is there a kinder person, more generous person
with his time? I'm not the only one.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
The do you know?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Why? Is that why you're coughing?
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Just said? Is lovely? Of course he is, but there
may be others in the room or in the vicinity.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You are, of course also known for your kindness.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
But as you know, it's a very it's a very
welcoming community. Bear you actually with my third book, you
actually gave me a jacket quote grateful for.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
So you thank you.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It's it's very rare that that people will say no
if you ask nicely, And at this time of my career,
I can't offer a lot back. I'm just an amateur
compared to you two, with all your books and all
your accolades.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Not at all. I know she is. I know she's
really recording the kettle black.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
I think I think you are considered a younger than me.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
No, I don't think there's any such thing. I think
what it is is people who have some grasp of
the craft of writing. And I think a lot of
journalists come into writing novels with at least that basic,
basic grasp of the skills needed to put together, you know,
reasonably polished, polished pros, and then it's just a matter of.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Unlike celebrities like ballroom dancers or TV judges that sort
of things, that what you mean, Fast.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
I did not say that, do you put words in
my mouth?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I was just asking. I was just I was just
asking fast.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
I mean, I mean, yes, the typical ballroom dancers probably
is not as polished, but then that's why they have
polished writers just helped them.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
What I actually think it's it's not that straightforward. I
felt I felt like I had.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
To teach myself how to do it, and it was hard.
There's no no one can kind of tell you how
to do it, because essentially it has to.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Be your own story. I found it really hard because
in journalism.
Speaker 4 (14:55):
I would never you know, I just I wrote the
headline first head and then I roll up the article
and I basically keep going.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
And at the end you have.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
The least important things, because the editor might just cut
off your article after a hunder words and as it
and that's not the way at all to do it.
In crime writing, you have to deliberately kind of prevent
people from understanding what's happening is I think it's really
different to journalism, and I think you have to really
learn I guess the love of language. Maybe is there
(15:28):
the heart, but you have to kind of learn it
all over again.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
I do like that comparison.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
I try to do this. I try to write it down,
but there's so many layers of the story. There's what
actually happened in the crime novel. I usually start by
writing that down. Then that's not the story you can
put in the book. So then you have to say
in what speed and at what point do people in
do the characters know what is happening in the story.
(15:54):
That's another layer, and then you have your red herrings.
That's another layer.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, you know, I find it hard.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
But of course the best way to learn how to
write a crime novel is to read a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
So I do that. I read a lot, and what.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
I write in English, I write in English, and then
I get I basically get translated back into Danish by
a very nice lady who's very very good at that
and much better than me. So I write in English. Yeah,
I can't do it the other way around. Now. I
think it's because writing a novel is essentially like sitting
(16:36):
around a campfire telling somebody a story.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And if the people sitting.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Around the campfire are speaking a certain language, you wouldn't
start speaking another language to them.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
And that's what I think I'm doing.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
So my friends and family are here, my children are here,
so if I want to tell them about something that's
happening back home, I'll do it in their language, in
their using your idioms, your And that's the only way
I can explain it.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But it's not it's not a conscious choice. It's just
that's just the way it is.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Now.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
That's what works.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Abbe writes in Glaswegian Scotch and then has to translated
to English and all the swearing has to come out.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
There is there is, There is a lot of swearing.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
You wanted to know what I've been up to, I've
been I'll tell you what. Let me tell you about this.
This is intriguing. So I was sent a handwritten I.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Asked that question fifteen minutes ago. Is it just registered
in your head?
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yes? I'm old? What can I say?
Speaker 4 (17:31):
So?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
I was sent a handwritten letter this week by one
of my readers, and she'd read everything I'd ever written.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
A sease and desist.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
It was, it absolutely was. She was absolutely livid with
me because she just read The Girl in sir La,
which you know is my first psychological thriller written in
a different style. And she took me to task because
she'd encountered a swear word which I'd never used in
any of my previous ten ten books. And she said,
(18:01):
I didn't do you actually know any swear words? Clearly
I do enough to get this lady, What.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Did you say? Did you say, oh, fudge? Is that
what you said? Fudge?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Something along those lines? Was she was? She said that
you have destroyed my hope in writing. You have completely
ruined all of your previous books for me because I
never thought that you were the type of person to
use such a word, such a profan and she's not
even left put her address on. So I even write
back to her to say that I'm very quite.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Right, you can swearing to you going to get some
more of you're swearing quite terrible, man.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I felt quite upset. I mean, I didn't know that
people could get so irate about the use of a
swear word. You can kill.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
People, you can get people, but you can't swear.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
That. How did you, I mean, how did you write?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
How did you find writing that book which was such
a departure from your other books? Because do you know
what I'm saying when I say that you have to
teach us.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
How this one's quite good?
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, that's quite good when you've had the same experience it,
you know, having to write outside of outside of our well,
not comfort zone, because nothing is ever comfortable in this industry,
but writing a series which of a of an environment
that we know so well, and then trying to take
our meager skills and transplant them to America and a
(19:28):
different kind of genre. It's not easy. And that's why
I think your.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
One to a long time yeah, my.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
One took me well over two years, so not easy,
is the answer. But anyway, the right or.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
I was going to ask you about this actually today
because I'm thinking, when do you when is it safe
to let go of the area in which you have
some natural authority? So I know Copenhagen really well, so
I'm in my comfort zone when so I'm I'm going
to write my next book is a standalone and I
was thinking, I have to set this in Denmark, And
(20:05):
then I thought why do I have to sit it
in Denmark? And I when do you become When? When
is it okay to story and just write you know,
whatever you want?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But do you know what I'm saying, it's.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Been Yeah, it's okay. When you can convince your editors
that it's okay. That's the minute it becomes okay. You know,
they'll they'll want you to do the same thing again
and again because they know it works. But when you
can convince them that you want to write something else,
or you can write something else in fast and my case,
we fooled them, well, didn't we, Vass.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
The only thing I'd add to that is you've got
to convince yourself as well, because You've got to feel
ready and able to do that, and then if you
can get someone to pay you to do it, that's
the That's the perfect scenario, right because you can always
go off book and write it on spec and hope
for the best, but it's always better if you're if,
as Aba says, you can convince your editorial team or
(20:58):
another editorial team to a pay for it and be
help you through that that process to find a new
voice and a new location and all the rest of
it that comes with writing.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Did you say it took you two years to write
Girl and Sealo did?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
It did because not just because it was a genre
I hadn't covered psychological thrillers, but also because I had
to read a ton of them. I mean, I'd always
liked them, but I had to, you know, double up
on that reading to try and get a feel for
what's working and what's not. And then I'd written one
hundred thousand words and then I realized that it didn't
quite work, and that the reason is because I needed
(21:32):
to change it from third person to first person and
past tense to present tens, as most of the books
in that place in that genre are written. So that's
why it took so what do you what are you
thinking of? Where are you moving to?
Speaker 4 (21:49):
So I was thinking, so, I'm going to write something
sort of more Gothic next, because I loved Gothic and
I thought I really loved to I'd really love to
set it on a remote Scottish island because it's very,
very difficult to get remote in my country. We have
(22:09):
I think two hundred and forty islands or so, but
there's so near land and I really yearned to write
something set in an isolated environment where you can't just
get away. And yeah, I'm just really attracted to that
kind of you know set. I love setting, and I
(22:32):
thought why not?
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I mean I was in Butte, the Lovely Butte last
weekend for but Noir.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
We missed you there, and I was just thinking, why
why can't I said it?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Here?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Is it? You know?
Speaker 4 (22:47):
It's about It's that sort of authenticity. It's both something
to do with external factors, but also about your own
confidence in writing about something that's far away from your
from your own world. I mean a beer with hunted.
I guess there were some themes that you are familiar with,
more familiar with, or some of the characters were more
(23:11):
recognizable from some of your other books. But I thought
it was well, yeah, I don't want to phone, but
I thought it was. I loved it though. It was
such a page turner and very credible, authentic story. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
I mean it did take an awful long time, but
three years, and as you say, some of the characters,
the characters that I'm familiar with. America I think is
slightly easier than a lot of places because we are
so aware of American culture, an American life. We see
it in all its forms, well in many of its forms,
every day and every night on our TVs and on
(23:48):
the internet. So America, even though it's a foreign culture,
is one that I think we're all immersed in. Writing
a book in about a culture or set in a
place that you're not familiar with, I think is harder.
But Butte is Britain. You know, a Scottish island is
still Britain. There are elements there that you can draw on.
(24:08):
There's enough commonality for you for you to do. I
would suggest a couple of weeks or a month's holiday
up there and that will give you, that will immerse
you in the in the culture of the place, the
humor of a place. I always find the humor of
a place is very important for setting exactly when you
can understand what makes people laugh, you understand a lot
(24:29):
about them and what makes you laugh.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, I'm looking at him right now. But a but.
And the other thing to remember, of course, is that
research trips of this nature are all tax deductible. Right
time is ticking id so as we finish, I want
to ask you about the latest. So give give us
a good plug, give us the pitch for my book
of the Dark.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
But out of the dark we have pregnant.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
She's pregnant and she is running around Copenhagen trying to
find a missing child.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
So I mentioned Peter Files before.
Speaker 4 (25:11):
I worked with a unit in the Danish police that
spent their time investigating child sexual abuse material online and
that sort of got me thinking and I wanted to
really I wanted to write a book about the work
of that unit. So I transferred it to Copenhagen from
(25:33):
the other part of Denmark and I basically we have
a story about a child who goes missing in Copenhagen
from a playground in the middle of the city just
before Christmas, and eventually the investigator. The lead investigator is
this guy Jensen has a relationship with called Henrik Henrik
(25:54):
Jungers and DII Henrik Jungerson. Then he starts remembering a
previous case and some pictures emerge that have a similar origin,
and gradually they sort of begin to find out that
these cases are related. But so it's basically a missing
child mystery, but it's linked to a pedophile ring investigation. However,
(26:19):
I should stress that my books are very much focused
on the investigation and the investigators, and the environment and
the victims of crime, sorry, the relatives and victims, rather
than I don't really go inside the head of the perpetrators,
and I don't spend a lot of time describing the crimes.
(26:40):
So people are a bit worried about it being explicit.
It isn't because it's not really. It's not an easy
subject matter. It's an incredibly difficult book to write for
that reason. But I really wanted to because I was
kind of driven by anger as well, and I think
journalism and writing has something in common.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is that passion that drives you.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
To watch to tell a story was basically my my
kind of frustration with the proliferation of this kind of crime,
you know, it's it's just it's massive. It's a massive,
global industry and it's it's absolutely horrific. So I wanted
to write an investigation where actually they managed to get
to the bottom of this.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
And this is Out of the Dog and it's out
when Out of the Doubt.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
Was out in April, so has been out for a while.
And my next book, so number five, is coming out
next April, and it's called A Woman in the Wall
and it's a continuation but more of a sort of
an origin story. And you might even get Jensen's first
name in the next book.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
We don't know that.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Yeah, So okay, so well we we know what you're
writing next because you've just told us, and we know
what you're after that as well, which is your Pandelonia
Gothic Gothic epic set in the Outer Hebrides.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I might go back to Denmark.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I might just invent an island.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
But yeah, you call it. I don't know, the Mukage
corn Land. It's been absolutely lovely having you, having you
on the show, and before my my colleague leads us
out with the outro, thank you for coming and spending
spending half an hour or so with us.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
Thank you so much, Heidi. That was great fun, you know.
Also it meant the team didn't do very much talking.
All we learned from him this week was that his
one fan has left them. That's what you're going to
do now, you're going to swear a bit more.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Well, I've got two fans. I've got your mom and
this lady.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
My mom out of this. Oh my word, do you
know what it's true? Actually she's got more of your
books than she has of mine, which I find quite upsetting.
She keeps claiming that she's giving mine to her friends,
but she doesn't give yours to her friends, which I
can understand. I mean, she likes her friends. But anyway,
on that bombshell, that brings us to the end of
(29:08):
another episode. Once again, if you've liked the show, can
we ask you to leave reviews, sign up for regular
episodes using your favorite podcast app, and please do spread
the word. But see, if we were to set a
book in Scandinavia, which country would we set it in
and why oh what would the crime be?
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Well, it would be with the Cweden obviously, It'd be
in Sweden and it would be in the forest that
will Deane lives in. Yes, that's good. We've got an invite.
We've got a standing invite.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Let's go and murder will do good idea.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
It writes it.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
We are ladies and gentlemen. If you're up for that,
please you know we'll set up some crowdfunder app for
the crowdfunder group, and you can fund our trip to Sweden,
where we may or may not hurt the handsomest man
in crime fiction, wil Den. And on that note, ladies
and gentlemen, we have been your friends. The Red Hot
(30:07):
Chili writers on Murder Junction see you next time.
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