October 12, 2025 • 30 mins
On this episode we chat to crime writing legend Peter James about his latest novel The Hawk is Dead, discuss royal glove making, and Peter tells us about the 'worst film ever made' - possibly one of his own.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Murder Junction. Everyone. This week on the show
we are talking to writing legend superstar a Prince among men,
an all owner of Lama's, Peter James, creator of the
multi million selling Roy Grace series. Peter, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Thank you guys very much.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's lovely to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Can I just asked Lamas we had five hour packers
called al Pacino, Orto, Skew, Boris and.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Keith Keith we do we run out.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Of the field and a neighbor across the road actually
was called Keith. We didn't name them after him.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We just.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
One look like Boris Johnson, so called him Boris, and
one we just always wanted to have an outpacker called Keith,
and who used to shout Keith and this guy across
the road.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yes, hello, Well, my apology Je's for getting the research wrong.
I had it in my head because you told me
years ago about these these animals and I and for
some reason I just remembered them as Lamas instead of.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You're in the same family. The our packers are part
of a Lama. Well, they're camel lids, so you've got camels.
Then next down a Lama's and then next stopper our packers.
And the nice thing about our packers is Lama's spit
at people, whereas our packers don't.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh that's the difference between me and Abby. It's a spitter.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I hadn't spit once yet. I mean it seemed to
be pretty well behaved.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Give it time.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Then when I'm when I'm when I'm scared, I will
do that and then run away. At least that's what
I tell the scene when I spit at him.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, let's start at the beginning, Peter. For the few
people on earth who don't know who you are, let's
start at the beginning. Where did you grow up and
what did you do before you became an author? Because
that was a that's a whole podcast in itself.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah. I was born and grew up in Brighton, and
I I always wanted to be a writer. I wanted
to write books and I make films, but writing was
my kind of big passion and I when I was fourteen,
I read Graham Green's Brighton Rock, which was a book
(02:17):
that had a massive impact on my life because it
was a book I'd always loved reading crime fiction. At
Agatha Christian kind of doll and a lot of the
Golden Age. But Brighton Rock was a game changer because
it was the first time that I realized you could
(02:38):
actually write a crime thriller rather than a crime police procedural.
And Brighton Rock has this extraordinary opening line, which I
still think is one of the best opening lines ever written,
which was within three hours of arriving in Brighton, Hale
knew they meant to murder him. Who is Hale? Why
(02:59):
is the right? Who's going to kill him? But the
book then also had something which I'd never read before
in a crime novel, which had had a really big
moral dimension. You've got the central character in Brighton Rock
as a seventeen year old boy killer who's a nasty
(03:19):
piece of shit basically played wonderfully by David Attonberniy original movie,
Yeah Pinky, And he's a killer. He's in charge of
a gang of middle aged misfit sort of semi failed criminals,
and he's a killer. And he's a Roman Catholic and
terrified of eternal damnation, wonderfully conflicted. And I put that
(03:44):
book and I just thought, Wow, it's got probably the
darkest psychologically, the darkest ending. I think ever written, and
I put that book down and I just thought, Wow,
one day I want to try and write a novel
that's ten percent as good as this. It just blew
me away.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Looking of eternal damnation. Before you got to writing those brilliant,
brilliant novels, you spent time in the movie industry.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Real damnation. Yeah. I didn't have any confidence as a
kid at all. I never thought anybody would want to
read what I wrote. Lth the one I had one
teacher at school who kind of really encouraged me, and
I won my school poetry prize when I was fifteen,
and that kind of gave me a boost. But I
(04:28):
honestly didn't. And I went in the movie business initially,
I mean literally at the bottom I went. I came
out of school in nineteen seventy and out of film school,
and it was impossible to get a job in England.
So I had an uncling in Toronto and he said,
come out here, it's all happening. So I went out
there and I got a job working as a gopher
(04:49):
on a daily program for preschool children called Polka Dot Door.
And I was literally running a go for a proper go.
I go for this go for that running Eron's getting coffee,
and the producer came in a panic one day and said,
the writer's sick. We don't have a show today. I
just read your CV you won your school purchase price.
(05:09):
Can you write today's show? And I wrote it, and
I ended up getting the gig for the best part
of the year. And then I teamed up with a
guy called Bob Clark who was trying to put together
a horror film called Children Should Play with Dead Things,
and I helped him raise the money on that, and
(05:30):
we ended up kind of making that film, and then
another horror movie called Death Dream. But I always at
that time wanted to do comedy, and we made a
whole bunch of films, but my one goal was to
do comedy. So I wrote and produced a comedy called
Spanish fly which had the legend Terry Thomas in it
and Leslie Phillips. The film came out the same day
(05:54):
as Jaws, and for some unfathomable reason, Jaws get Better,
it wasn't. It wasn't helped by the fact well the
Spanish Flyer was not helped by the fact that Baron
Norman called it the least funny British funny film ever
made and the worst British film since the Second World War.
(06:17):
Finney Enough. I saw him at the Harrogate at Harrogate
about must have been about twelve years ago, because his
wife became a crime writer. And I bumped him in
the bar at the Swan and I said, you busted.
You completely trashed my when I was like twenty five
years old. He said, said, but it wasn't bit ship,
(06:37):
wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I love this story.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I I I'm a huge film buff and I would
watch Barry Norman religiously every week on his little little show.
What an amazing, full circle story that his wife became
a crime writer and was in Harrogate where you know,
me and Abber are there every year and you are
there most years. All right, well, let's well, let's let's
we've got to skate over not because it's not hugely interesting,
(07:02):
but you know, we keep our podcast quite short, so
we've got to move on to the reason that we're
all here, which is to plug your new book. But
let's introduce Detective Inspector Roy Grace, who for listeners who
don't know who he is, well and well you can't
get better promotion than this. He is the favorite fictional
detective of her Majesty, Queen Camilla tell us a bit
(07:27):
about the latest Roy Grace novel, The Hawk Is Dead.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
The Hawkers said, it basically starts where the Queen Killer
is coming to Brighton on the Royal Train as the
start of a two day tour of hospices in the
South Coast, and the Queen and the King and other
men of the Royal family use that train as a
kind of mobile hotel so that rather than had to
(07:55):
go back to Clarence House, they can park it in
the siding and keep on the train. It's got a
bathroom and bedroom's got all kitted up, and Roy Grace
has been alerted that there's a not My King protest
going to take place in Brighton, so police are on
(08:16):
high alert. And as the train goes into a tunnel
five miles north of Brighton, it's derailed badly, and the
Queen is quite heroic and trying to helping people get
off the train and out of the tunnel. And as
they emerged from the tunnel, they climb a steers of
(08:37):
steps up onto a grassy and all above the tunnel
and as they do, she's standing next to a senior
member of the Royal Household and a shot rings out. Basically,
his head explodes. She's spattered with bits of him. Ah
and wow, Roy Grace. There's an immediate conflict because the
(09:04):
Royal Protection Team wants somebody from the met to take
over the investigation. But it's happened on Roy Grace is
tough and he gets himself into immediate controversy because everybody
thinks it's a failed assassination attempt on the Queen. But
Roy Grace says, no, this guy was standing four feet
from her. If the sniper wanted wanted to kill the Queen,
(09:29):
he might have missed by four inches. He's not going
to miss by four feet.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
And from there, Oh wow, all right, I am loving this.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
And has the Queen received a copy of this book
in advance?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yes, I was really nervous because I put a lot
of I have that the Queen and the King as themselves.
I've got the other characters in the Royal Household inside
backing palace. I've used the real rules but fictionalize the characters.
But the Queen and the King are themselves, and I've
got many scenes in the book with them. I mean,
(10:07):
the second chapter in the book is King Charles and
Queen kim Miller having breakfast and she slips a bit
of toasted her dogs under the table and the King frowns.
And then I've got grilling Roy Grace because he's convinced
that this is an assassination attempt on his wife and
he doesn't believe it's Hillbilly copps thesis that it might permiss.
(10:31):
So I've got a lot of scenes with the Camilla.
She actually shows him around the palace at one point,
and I was really nervous and I thought, you know, God,
you know what if she hates the book. So back
in March, when we we've literally got the very first
stage of edit done, my publishers permit, and I asked
(10:54):
them to bind a copy. So they actually bound a proof,
really proved copy, and they marked it one and I
sent it to her and I said, this is the
very first copy in the world. Could you take a
read of it? And if there's anything you want change,
now's the time I can do it. And then I
(11:15):
met her at Clarence's house a week later, and she
came up with a big smile on her face, and
she said absolutely loved it. She said don't I said,
it's anything you want change? She said, not a word.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Wonderful? And did the King read it? Do we know
if the King read it?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I think he doesn't read much fiction. He reads a
lot of nonfiction, so I don't believe he's ready yet.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
But they're not enough trees, not enough trees in your
in your.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Id. What I have heard since is because I've given
all the fictitious names members of the royal household, and
I've heard that the Queen is now calling members of
the household by the name which.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Peter that must be. Do you ever pinch yourself?
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I mean, you were talking about your beginnings and where
you came from, and now you've go into Clarence House
and you're discussing your work with the Queen.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Do you ever think, Wow, how did this happen?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
How did we get here? Do you know? Constantly? I
kind of because when I started my first ever book
was a terrible spy thriller called Dead Letter Drop. I
did not recommend anybody to read it, and it came
out in nineteen eighty one, and I think, probably one
of the best days of my life was the day
(12:26):
that my then agent rang me and said your book
has been accepted. They're offering you a two book deal
to write two spy thrillers. The worst day of my
life was the day Dead Letter Drop was published. Because
I was really excited, as we all are, run around
all the bookstores in Brighton. It wasn't anywhere. I discovered
(12:50):
that they had printed like eighteen hundred copies, of which
fifteen hundred had gone to public libraries. There were literally
three hundred hardback copies throughout the whole UK. And the
book didn't sell, and the second one sold even less,
which is called Assam Bomb Angel, and I sort of
(13:10):
really began to think, you know, I obviously didn't have
what it takes to make any kind of success as
a writer. So having gone from there back in nineteen
eighty one Lady two to this, yeah, I do pinch myself.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I mean, you've had the last laugh twenty what is it?
Twenty one, twenty two Roy Grace successive number one Sunday
Times best sellers. What people might not know about you
is that there is we've been talking about full circles.
There's a sense of a full circle here as well
with this book because you you have a royal connection
(13:45):
your your your mother was the glove maker to Queen
Elizabeth the second tell us a bit about that, because
I find that fascinating.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
She was also my mom was my best salesperson. If
you say, on an aeroplane with my mom or on
a train, by the time you got off, the first
thing you would do was you'd run to the nearest
book store and look for Peter James books. But she
was a my mom's a Jewish refugee. She'd been from Vienna.
She fled the Nazis in nineteen thirty eight, and she'd
(14:18):
been studying glove design at Vianna Art College, and she
literally arrived in Dover with a suitcase of gloving, levers
and the clothes she stood up in. And she spent
the war doing occupational therapy with wounded soldiers, getting them
to move there, ones who had injured hands, getting them
to make gloves just to get the dexterity with their hands.
(14:40):
And in ninety the end of the war, ninety forty
five forty six, she realized there weren't any nice clothes
for women to wear. It was all drab, d mob stuff,
and she died a range of gloves and one hundred
shades of color, and Vogue picked up on it called
her the color Queen of England. And then the next
was the then Princess Elizabeth. Two dressers, Hardy aim As
(15:05):
and Norman Hartnell started getting her to make things, and
when Princess Elizabeth got married in nineteen forty seven, my
mother was asked to make the gloves for the wedding,
the going away dress wedding, and it kind of shot
at her fame and she then became the coin got
(15:26):
the royal warrant as the Queen's glove maker. Later when
she became Queen Elizabeth, I made the gloves for the
Queen all her life and my probably one of my
abiding childhood memories is sitting at home on a Sunday
night watching Sunday Night at Bruce Forsyth on Sunday night
at the London Palladia on Teddy. You guys are too
(15:49):
young to remember it, probably, but only remember we remember
my mom would sit there because the Queen had a
frugal dresser. I can't remember her nd that she was
quite some of stern lady. My mother always called a
miss whatever it was and the queen was always shaking hands,
(16:11):
so the gloves were getting a lot of wear and tear.
And she'd send the gloves back for repair, and my
mother would sit she wouldn't let anybody else and and
and the factually touch them once they came back, and
she would sit there watching Sunday night at the front
of me again doing for the needleand thread, doing this
intricate little.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
What a wonderful, wonderful image that really is I'm going
to take to the Hawk is dead if I remember correctly,
There's there's some maps and stuff at were beginning of
the Is.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
It the palace? Yes, just potentially.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
My question is how much access did you have to
the royals, to the royal residences, how much research? How
did you go about doing the research for the royal
aspects of the book.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, I'm kind of one of the things I love
doing is digging hard in research. And I the extraordinary
thing was that I basically sent when I sort of
planned to write the book, I sent an idea that
(17:24):
I have, which was because I'd read that the Bucking
Palace was in quite a state of chaos, organized chaos,
that there's a huge three hundred and seventy five million
pounds renovation scheme. And there's an organization called the Royal
(17:46):
Trust which looks after all the all the valid all
the artwork, all the ornaments, find furniture in all the palaces.
I mean of a million items, I think in Bucking
and Pass alone, and this stuff is all being moved around.
And I thought this would be a great opportunity for
(18:09):
some crooked members of the royal household to nick some
of these items and flog them on the dark web.
And I sent this to a senior member of the
royal household, saying what do you think about this? And
I got this extraordinary ply saying, you know this happened.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
A footman had been stealing stuff and selling that not
in the dark work, he just been saying on the Internet.
And he got caught because he'd laid this stuff out
on the counterpane of his bed in one of the
dormitory rooms up on the four floor of Bucking and Pass.
But there are several people in the house. I really
(18:51):
kind of liked the idea of the book, and I
had to run it by well, first of all, the
Queen herself, and she said she liked the idea, but
I had to get it signed off by backing palace comms,
and I it was kind of really nervous, and then
(19:15):
I then they came back to me and said, yeah,
it's okay, I'm right, and that then kind of opened
the door to get me a fir amount of access
and I had I've been sort of literally everywhere behind
the scene and something down in the done in the
basement I was based on the Bucking Palaces, like the
(19:36):
basement of any hotel or sort of public buildings, just
all pipes and and probably worse at the moment because
it's all sort of a building. Site went up on
the rooftop, which is quite amazing and quite because I
(19:57):
put my garment on when I the first time I went,
I was getting a big two a round and I
will walk three and a half miles around the corridors. Wow,
it's awesomely big. And I said to this guy, your arm.
He's been there, he's been about fifteen years. I said,
how how do you learn your way around? He said,
(20:18):
just after I joined, he said, I asked Prince Philip
that question. He said, it's very easy. Well, why do
you navigate by the paintings.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Ah ah, whatever, turn light turn right at the petition.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Left past the third.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I like that. I like that a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Let me ask you something about Roy Grace, because you're
twenty plus novels into this character, right, Yeah, why do
you keep coming back to?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Do you know? I love writing him? I mean, I
do write standalones, I've written. I've written a number of
standlons over the years. But I I guess I'm very
lucking on that. Roy Grace is based not physically, but
based career wise on a real life former detective called
(21:08):
David Gaylor, who I first met when he was a
young di I in nineteen ninety seven. We just clicked
and he then rose up through He helped me on
the books. So I was writing back then. I was
writing psychological thrillers, and he sort of became In two
thousand and two he got promoted to detective chief superintendent,
(21:30):
basically head of head of homicide the Sussex Police. And
it was an extraordinary moment. I remember I was standing
in Rome and just outside the Vatican and my agent
rang and said, just had a meeting with Pam McMillan.
They've lost their number one crime writer Peter Robinson. He's
moved to another publishing house. I think as to Harper clients,
(21:53):
they need that. They're looking for a new crime writer
to kind of fill his shoes. Have you ever thought
of creating a detective, as I said character? So I'm
literally standing in Vatican Square. I called David Gayla, I said,
how would you like to be a fictional cop? And
he loved the idea, and so he became my real
life Roy Grace. We've worked closely together on every book
(22:16):
that he reads because research, getting things accurate is really
important to me, and he reads every hundred pages, tells
me how Roy and the other police characters would actually
think an act. And he's opened doors around the world
through him. I've met police in many countries around the world,
and I really enjoy I mean, I love learning, and
(22:39):
I think people who read, everyone who reads is smart,
and I think people like to learn things when they read,
and I like to learn things when I write. So
what Roy Grace enables me to do is to take
subjects that I want to know something about. And obviously
it's been a special privilege with the Hawk is Dead
and learning about the in my workings at the Royal household.
(23:02):
But I work a lot with the police, and for
instance a few years but back in twenty seventeen, Sussex
Police approached me and they said, people in Sussex have
lost over five million in the last twelve months to
Internet romance fraud scanners. If we were to show you
(23:25):
the files, obviously not the names, would you consider writing
a novel Roy Grace, novel that might actually alert people
to the danger's internet romance flaud and I did that.
It became dead at first sight, and I've had that.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Is really interesting.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
That is I mean that so the police are actually
You're being asked to perform a public service by the
police by writing these novels too.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
That's amazing. It's extorting. I had the met Police asked
me to write about super recognizers and I've done that
and they said it's actually helped their they're recruiting for
super recognizers. So I kind of regularly they approach who
wanted me to highlight something rather So I love that
(24:10):
learning that stuff. But also I really, I mean, the
television's going really well, so I've got to write fast
to keep ahead of that. What's the I generally love
writing them. I enjoy the kind. It's almost like a
soap opera. I've created the characters well.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Before I ask you a last question about what you're
writing next. What's the opposite of a super recognizer? Because
that's Abbey. He sometimes doesn't recognize his own reflection.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
No one recognizes me, so I mean it's only fair.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
But Peter, can I ask a question before? See Mass's
last question? You talk about the police and your relationship
with the police. We see where you're sitting now. You're
surrounded by a plethora of police hats and memorabilitia. Tell
us a little bit about your office and where you
are right now.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, my office is at the top of an eighty
foot tower.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You own an eighty foot tower?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Where is this tower in Jersey? As part of a
house that we bought eight years ago?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
How many floors are this in? This eighty feet?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
So I'm now thinking I'm up on the fourth floor.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
It was only these must be very high.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I see it very high seating. It was built in
eighteen fifteen by a cod fisherman who wanted to be
able to see the sea from the top of this
hill in Jersey. I read yates, I loved the Yates
when I was like my teens, and he wrote in
the tower, and I thought that that would be my dream,
if you're write in a tower. So when this house
came up a sell, I said, we have to have it.
(25:49):
Amazing and I collect police memorabilia and it's great because
I've made many friends with police around the world over
the years. And when they retire, seen their badges or
the trunches up there.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I was wondering what those were.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
I thought there were the handles of pots and pans
for a minute, and now we can see their.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Truncheons wonderful with some modern art.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Oh my goodness me. You look at the views, ladies
and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
We have to say we have panoramic views out across
through the windows across Jersey.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Forget forgetting the panoramic views. I can't even see to
the end of Peter's office. Well, obviously, bites a pair
of us over to his island. We're going to have to.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You'll be massively welcome, you guys. There you go.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
You know you know what happened to us, Peter.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
We were invited to the Isle of Wight for a
festival and the vessel apparently the idea of having two
Brown writers in on the island at the same time
was a bit strange, and so we only had one
hotel room that was only thought we were one person,
so we had to share a bed more wise, so
(27:06):
so we have a bigger.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Place ere Isle of white Rock Festival back in nineteen
six and as a film a film school we made
we made a movie there called hey man, You're standing
on my hair.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Well, that's exactly what our bedroom was like that the
next morning.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
So then you should make a very sweet couple, you know,
and then you and then you and then you. Wonder Peter,
why Steven Spielsburg is not really sweating when one of
your films comes out. He should be depending on my head.
So the last question I did have for you is
what are you writing next?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I'm currently writing. I mentioned writing a book on writing,
which is good come out oh twenty seven. Writing the
new Roy Grace at the Moment, which is something a
book was a huge influence on me and I think
it's a great book for any writer to read. It
was called britt My Arthur Hailey back in the sixties,
(28:04):
called Hotel. It's a wonderful book. It's all a hotel
in New Orleans and all these different characters, including a
burglar who's going to rob the rooms, and an aristocratic couple.
Saying it is he was a brilliant at writing research,
and I've always wanted to write reading since reading that,
I wanted to write a novel set in a hotel.
(28:24):
So I've actually the New roy Grace is set in
a pictorious hotel and Brighton Seafront, very much model on
the Grand Hotel, and I did a day there as
a concierge. I was in full uniform and I got
a five pound tip for carrying some luggage out.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Not you wouldn't have got it if Abby had wandered
and he just got no way. He's giving maybe at
the most.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
My own luggage. Thank you very much, but that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Well, before leads us out in an outro, what I
would also like to say and put on record is
that over the years that we've known, you've certainly but
I think it's a general consensus in the industry. You
are one of the nicest and most generous people on
the circuit. You've helped countless other authors as you've gone along.
(29:13):
You really believe in that whole thing of you know, once,
you've made it to not pull up the ladder, but
to help others to on their way up the ladder.
And we've both benefited from your generous generosity. So thank
you very much, Peter.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
That's hugely kind. Thank your grade.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Second, and I say it needs to extend to us
coming to stay at your house as well. Okay, so
don't pull up the ladder before that.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
You're massively, massively welcome. I'd love to see you lovely.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
And that brings us the close of another episode.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Once again, if you've liked the show, can we ask
you to leave a of you sign up for regular
episodes using your favorite podcast app, and please do spread
the word so fast.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Do you think we should invite Queen Camilla on the.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Podcast to talk about Peter's books.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Only if we don't mind being sent to the tower.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And on that revolutionary note, we've been your friends. The
Red Hot Chiley writers on Murder Judge
Welcome to Murder Junction. Everyone. This week on the show
we are talking to writing legend superstar a Prince among men,
an all owner of Lama's, Peter James, creator of the
multi million selling Roy Grace series. Peter, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Thank you guys very much.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's lovely to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Can I just asked Lamas we had five hour packers
called al Pacino, Orto, Skew, Boris and.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Keith Keith we do we run out.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Of the field and a neighbor across the road actually
was called Keith. We didn't name them after him.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
We just.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
One look like Boris Johnson, so called him Boris, and
one we just always wanted to have an outpacker called Keith,
and who used to shout Keith and this guy across
the road.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yes, hello, Well, my apology Je's for getting the research wrong.
I had it in my head because you told me
years ago about these these animals and I and for
some reason I just remembered them as Lamas instead of.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
You're in the same family. The our packers are part
of a Lama. Well, they're camel lids, so you've got camels.
Then next down a Lama's and then next stopper our packers.
And the nice thing about our packers is Lama's spit
at people, whereas our packers don't.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh that's the difference between me and Abby. It's a spitter.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
I hadn't spit once yet. I mean it seemed to
be pretty well behaved.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Give it time.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Then when I'm when I'm when I'm scared, I will
do that and then run away. At least that's what
I tell the scene when I spit at him.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, let's start at the beginning, Peter. For the few
people on earth who don't know who you are, let's
start at the beginning. Where did you grow up and
what did you do before you became an author? Because
that was a that's a whole podcast in itself.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah. I was born and grew up in Brighton, and
I I always wanted to be a writer. I wanted
to write books and I make films, but writing was
my kind of big passion and I when I was fourteen,
I read Graham Green's Brighton Rock, which was a book
(02:17):
that had a massive impact on my life because it
was a book I'd always loved reading crime fiction. At
Agatha Christian kind of doll and a lot of the
Golden Age. But Brighton Rock was a game changer because
it was the first time that I realized you could
(02:38):
actually write a crime thriller rather than a crime police procedural.
And Brighton Rock has this extraordinary opening line, which I
still think is one of the best opening lines ever written,
which was within three hours of arriving in Brighton, Hale
knew they meant to murder him. Who is Hale? Why
(02:59):
is the right? Who's going to kill him? But the
book then also had something which I'd never read before
in a crime novel, which had had a really big
moral dimension. You've got the central character in Brighton Rock
as a seventeen year old boy killer who's a nasty
(03:19):
piece of shit basically played wonderfully by David Attonberniy original movie,
Yeah Pinky, And he's a killer. He's in charge of
a gang of middle aged misfit sort of semi failed criminals,
and he's a killer. And he's a Roman Catholic and
terrified of eternal damnation, wonderfully conflicted. And I put that
(03:44):
book and I just thought, Wow, it's got probably the
darkest psychologically, the darkest ending. I think ever written, and
I put that book down and I just thought, Wow,
one day I want to try and write a novel
that's ten percent as good as this. It just blew
me away.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Looking of eternal damnation. Before you got to writing those brilliant,
brilliant novels, you spent time in the movie industry.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Real damnation. Yeah. I didn't have any confidence as a
kid at all. I never thought anybody would want to
read what I wrote. Lth the one I had one
teacher at school who kind of really encouraged me, and
I won my school poetry prize when I was fifteen,
and that kind of gave me a boost. But I
(04:28):
honestly didn't. And I went in the movie business initially,
I mean literally at the bottom I went. I came
out of school in nineteen seventy and out of film school,
and it was impossible to get a job in England.
So I had an uncling in Toronto and he said,
come out here, it's all happening. So I went out
there and I got a job working as a gopher
(04:49):
on a daily program for preschool children called Polka Dot Door.
And I was literally running a go for a proper go.
I go for this go for that running Eron's getting coffee,
and the producer came in a panic one day and said,
the writer's sick. We don't have a show today. I
just read your CV you won your school purchase price.
(05:09):
Can you write today's show? And I wrote it, and
I ended up getting the gig for the best part
of the year. And then I teamed up with a
guy called Bob Clark who was trying to put together
a horror film called Children Should Play with Dead Things,
and I helped him raise the money on that, and
(05:30):
we ended up kind of making that film, and then
another horror movie called Death Dream. But I always at
that time wanted to do comedy, and we made a
whole bunch of films, but my one goal was to
do comedy. So I wrote and produced a comedy called
Spanish fly which had the legend Terry Thomas in it
and Leslie Phillips. The film came out the same day
(05:54):
as Jaws, and for some unfathomable reason, Jaws get Better,
it wasn't. It wasn't helped by the fact well the
Spanish Flyer was not helped by the fact that Baron
Norman called it the least funny British funny film ever
made and the worst British film since the Second World War.
(06:17):
Finney Enough. I saw him at the Harrogate at Harrogate
about must have been about twelve years ago, because his
wife became a crime writer. And I bumped him in
the bar at the Swan and I said, you busted.
You completely trashed my when I was like twenty five
years old. He said, said, but it wasn't bit ship,
(06:37):
wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
I love this story.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I I I'm a huge film buff and I would
watch Barry Norman religiously every week on his little little show.
What an amazing, full circle story that his wife became
a crime writer and was in Harrogate where you know,
me and Abber are there every year and you are
there most years. All right, well, let's well, let's let's
we've got to skate over not because it's not hugely interesting,
(07:02):
but you know, we keep our podcast quite short, so
we've got to move on to the reason that we're
all here, which is to plug your new book. But
let's introduce Detective Inspector Roy Grace, who for listeners who
don't know who he is, well and well you can't
get better promotion than this. He is the favorite fictional
detective of her Majesty, Queen Camilla tell us a bit
(07:27):
about the latest Roy Grace novel, The Hawk Is Dead.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
The Hawkers said, it basically starts where the Queen Killer
is coming to Brighton on the Royal Train as the
start of a two day tour of hospices in the
South Coast, and the Queen and the King and other
men of the Royal family use that train as a
kind of mobile hotel so that rather than had to
(07:55):
go back to Clarence House, they can park it in
the siding and keep on the train. It's got a
bathroom and bedroom's got all kitted up, and Roy Grace
has been alerted that there's a not My King protest
going to take place in Brighton, so police are on
(08:16):
high alert. And as the train goes into a tunnel
five miles north of Brighton, it's derailed badly, and the
Queen is quite heroic and trying to helping people get
off the train and out of the tunnel. And as
they emerged from the tunnel, they climb a steers of
(08:37):
steps up onto a grassy and all above the tunnel
and as they do, she's standing next to a senior
member of the Royal Household and a shot rings out. Basically,
his head explodes. She's spattered with bits of him. Ah
and wow, Roy Grace. There's an immediate conflict because the
(09:04):
Royal Protection Team wants somebody from the met to take
over the investigation. But it's happened on Roy Grace is
tough and he gets himself into immediate controversy because everybody
thinks it's a failed assassination attempt on the Queen. But
Roy Grace says, no, this guy was standing four feet
from her. If the sniper wanted wanted to kill the Queen,
(09:29):
he might have missed by four inches. He's not going
to miss by four feet.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
And from there, Oh wow, all right, I am loving this.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
And has the Queen received a copy of this book
in advance?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yes, I was really nervous because I put a lot
of I have that the Queen and the King as themselves.
I've got the other characters in the Royal Household inside
backing palace. I've used the real rules but fictionalize the characters.
But the Queen and the King are themselves, and I've
got many scenes in the book with them. I mean,
(10:07):
the second chapter in the book is King Charles and
Queen kim Miller having breakfast and she slips a bit
of toasted her dogs under the table and the King frowns.
And then I've got grilling Roy Grace because he's convinced
that this is an assassination attempt on his wife and
he doesn't believe it's Hillbilly copps thesis that it might permiss.
(10:31):
So I've got a lot of scenes with the Camilla.
She actually shows him around the palace at one point,
and I was really nervous and I thought, you know, God,
you know what if she hates the book. So back
in March, when we we've literally got the very first
stage of edit done, my publishers permit, and I asked
(10:54):
them to bind a copy. So they actually bound a proof,
really proved copy, and they marked it one and I
sent it to her and I said, this is the
very first copy in the world. Could you take a
read of it? And if there's anything you want change,
now's the time I can do it. And then I
(11:15):
met her at Clarence's house a week later, and she
came up with a big smile on her face, and
she said absolutely loved it. She said don't I said,
it's anything you want change? She said, not a word.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Wonderful? And did the King read it? Do we know
if the King read it?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I think he doesn't read much fiction. He reads a
lot of nonfiction, so I don't believe he's ready yet.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
But they're not enough trees, not enough trees in your
in your.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Id. What I have heard since is because I've given
all the fictitious names members of the royal household, and
I've heard that the Queen is now calling members of
the household by the name which.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Peter that must be. Do you ever pinch yourself?
Speaker 4 (11:54):
I mean, you were talking about your beginnings and where
you came from, and now you've go into Clarence House
and you're discussing your work with the Queen.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Do you ever think, Wow, how did this happen?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
How did we get here? Do you know? Constantly? I
kind of because when I started my first ever book
was a terrible spy thriller called Dead Letter Drop. I
did not recommend anybody to read it, and it came
out in nineteen eighty one, and I think, probably one
of the best days of my life was the day
(12:26):
that my then agent rang me and said your book
has been accepted. They're offering you a two book deal
to write two spy thrillers. The worst day of my
life was the day Dead Letter Drop was published. Because
I was really excited, as we all are, run around
all the bookstores in Brighton. It wasn't anywhere. I discovered
(12:50):
that they had printed like eighteen hundred copies, of which
fifteen hundred had gone to public libraries. There were literally
three hundred hardback copies throughout the whole UK. And the
book didn't sell, and the second one sold even less,
which is called Assam Bomb Angel, and I sort of
(13:10):
really began to think, you know, I obviously didn't have
what it takes to make any kind of success as
a writer. So having gone from there back in nineteen
eighty one Lady two to this, yeah, I do pinch myself.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I mean, you've had the last laugh twenty what is it?
Twenty one, twenty two Roy Grace successive number one Sunday
Times best sellers. What people might not know about you
is that there is we've been talking about full circles.
There's a sense of a full circle here as well
with this book because you you have a royal connection
(13:45):
your your your mother was the glove maker to Queen
Elizabeth the second tell us a bit about that, because
I find that fascinating.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
She was also my mom was my best salesperson. If
you say, on an aeroplane with my mom or on
a train, by the time you got off, the first
thing you would do was you'd run to the nearest
book store and look for Peter James books. But she
was a my mom's a Jewish refugee. She'd been from Vienna.
She fled the Nazis in nineteen thirty eight, and she'd
(14:18):
been studying glove design at Vianna Art College, and she
literally arrived in Dover with a suitcase of gloving, levers
and the clothes she stood up in. And she spent
the war doing occupational therapy with wounded soldiers, getting them
to move there, ones who had injured hands, getting them
to make gloves just to get the dexterity with their hands.
(14:40):
And in ninety the end of the war, ninety forty
five forty six, she realized there weren't any nice clothes
for women to wear. It was all drab, d mob stuff,
and she died a range of gloves and one hundred
shades of color, and Vogue picked up on it called
her the color Queen of England. And then the next
was the then Princess Elizabeth. Two dressers, Hardy aim As
(15:05):
and Norman Hartnell started getting her to make things, and
when Princess Elizabeth got married in nineteen forty seven, my
mother was asked to make the gloves for the wedding,
the going away dress wedding, and it kind of shot
at her fame and she then became the coin got
(15:26):
the royal warrant as the Queen's glove maker. Later when
she became Queen Elizabeth, I made the gloves for the
Queen all her life and my probably one of my
abiding childhood memories is sitting at home on a Sunday
night watching Sunday Night at Bruce Forsyth on Sunday night
at the London Palladia on Teddy. You guys are too
(15:49):
young to remember it, probably, but only remember we remember
my mom would sit there because the Queen had a
frugal dresser. I can't remember her nd that she was
quite some of stern lady. My mother always called a
miss whatever it was and the queen was always shaking hands,
(16:11):
so the gloves were getting a lot of wear and tear.
And she'd send the gloves back for repair, and my
mother would sit she wouldn't let anybody else and and
and the factually touch them once they came back, and
she would sit there watching Sunday night at the front
of me again doing for the needleand thread, doing this
intricate little.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
What a wonderful, wonderful image that really is I'm going
to take to the Hawk is dead if I remember correctly,
There's there's some maps and stuff at were beginning of
the Is.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
It the palace? Yes, just potentially.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
My question is how much access did you have to
the royals, to the royal residences, how much research? How
did you go about doing the research for the royal
aspects of the book.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well, I'm kind of one of the things I love
doing is digging hard in research. And I the extraordinary
thing was that I basically sent when I sort of
planned to write the book, I sent an idea that
(17:24):
I have, which was because I'd read that the Bucking
Palace was in quite a state of chaos, organized chaos,
that there's a huge three hundred and seventy five million
pounds renovation scheme. And there's an organization called the Royal
(17:46):
Trust which looks after all the all the valid all
the artwork, all the ornaments, find furniture in all the palaces.
I mean of a million items, I think in Bucking
and Pass alone, and this stuff is all being moved around.
And I thought this would be a great opportunity for
(18:09):
some crooked members of the royal household to nick some
of these items and flog them on the dark web.
And I sent this to a senior member of the
royal household, saying what do you think about this? And
I got this extraordinary ply saying, you know this happened.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
A footman had been stealing stuff and selling that not
in the dark work, he just been saying on the Internet.
And he got caught because he'd laid this stuff out
on the counterpane of his bed in one of the
dormitory rooms up on the four floor of Bucking and Pass.
But there are several people in the house. I really
(18:51):
kind of liked the idea of the book, and I
had to run it by well, first of all, the
Queen herself, and she said she liked the idea, but
I had to get it signed off by backing palace comms,
and I it was kind of really nervous, and then
(19:15):
I then they came back to me and said, yeah,
it's okay, I'm right, and that then kind of opened
the door to get me a fir amount of access
and I had I've been sort of literally everywhere behind
the scene and something down in the done in the
basement I was based on the Bucking Palaces, like the
(19:36):
basement of any hotel or sort of public buildings, just
all pipes and and probably worse at the moment because
it's all sort of a building. Site went up on
the rooftop, which is quite amazing and quite because I
(19:57):
put my garment on when I the first time I went,
I was getting a big two a round and I
will walk three and a half miles around the corridors. Wow,
it's awesomely big. And I said to this guy, your arm.
He's been there, he's been about fifteen years. I said,
how how do you learn your way around? He said,
(20:18):
just after I joined, he said, I asked Prince Philip
that question. He said, it's very easy. Well, why do
you navigate by the paintings.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
Ah ah, whatever, turn light turn right at the petition.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Left past the third.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
I like that. I like that a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Let me ask you something about Roy Grace, because you're
twenty plus novels into this character, right, Yeah, why do
you keep coming back to?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Do you know? I love writing him? I mean, I
do write standalones, I've written. I've written a number of
standlons over the years. But I I guess I'm very
lucking on that. Roy Grace is based not physically, but
based career wise on a real life former detective called
(21:08):
David Gaylor, who I first met when he was a
young di I in nineteen ninety seven. We just clicked
and he then rose up through He helped me on
the books. So I was writing back then. I was
writing psychological thrillers, and he sort of became In two
thousand and two he got promoted to detective chief superintendent,
(21:30):
basically head of head of homicide the Sussex Police. And
it was an extraordinary moment. I remember I was standing
in Rome and just outside the Vatican and my agent
rang and said, just had a meeting with Pam McMillan.
They've lost their number one crime writer Peter Robinson. He's
moved to another publishing house. I think as to Harper clients,
(21:53):
they need that. They're looking for a new crime writer
to kind of fill his shoes. Have you ever thought
of creating a detective, as I said character? So I'm
literally standing in Vatican Square. I called David Gayla, I said,
how would you like to be a fictional cop? And
he loved the idea, and so he became my real
life Roy Grace. We've worked closely together on every book
(22:16):
that he reads because research, getting things accurate is really
important to me, and he reads every hundred pages, tells
me how Roy and the other police characters would actually
think an act. And he's opened doors around the world
through him. I've met police in many countries around the world,
and I really enjoy I mean, I love learning, and
(22:39):
I think people who read, everyone who reads is smart,
and I think people like to learn things when they read,
and I like to learn things when I write. So
what Roy Grace enables me to do is to take
subjects that I want to know something about. And obviously
it's been a special privilege with the Hawk is Dead
and learning about the in my workings at the Royal household.
(23:02):
But I work a lot with the police, and for
instance a few years but back in twenty seventeen, Sussex
Police approached me and they said, people in Sussex have
lost over five million in the last twelve months to
Internet romance fraud scanners. If we were to show you
(23:25):
the files, obviously not the names, would you consider writing
a novel Roy Grace, novel that might actually alert people
to the danger's internet romance flaud and I did that.
It became dead at first sight, and I've had that.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Is really interesting.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
That is I mean that so the police are actually
You're being asked to perform a public service by the
police by writing these novels too.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
That's amazing. It's extorting. I had the met Police asked
me to write about super recognizers and I've done that
and they said it's actually helped their they're recruiting for
super recognizers. So I kind of regularly they approach who
wanted me to highlight something rather So I love that
(24:10):
learning that stuff. But also I really, I mean, the
television's going really well, so I've got to write fast
to keep ahead of that. What's the I generally love
writing them. I enjoy the kind. It's almost like a
soap opera. I've created the characters well.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Before I ask you a last question about what you're
writing next. What's the opposite of a super recognizer? Because
that's Abbey. He sometimes doesn't recognize his own reflection.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
No one recognizes me, so I mean it's only fair.
Speaker 4 (24:44):
But Peter, can I ask a question before? See Mass's
last question? You talk about the police and your relationship
with the police. We see where you're sitting now. You're
surrounded by a plethora of police hats and memorabilitia. Tell
us a little bit about your office and where you
are right now.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, my office is at the top of an eighty
foot tower.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You own an eighty foot tower?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Where is this tower in Jersey? As part of a
house that we bought eight years ago?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
How many floors are this in? This eighty feet?
Speaker 2 (25:20):
So I'm now thinking I'm up on the fourth floor.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
It was only these must be very high.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
I see it very high seating. It was built in
eighteen fifteen by a cod fisherman who wanted to be
able to see the sea from the top of this
hill in Jersey. I read yates, I loved the Yates
when I was like my teens, and he wrote in
the tower, and I thought that that would be my dream,
if you're write in a tower. So when this house
came up a sell, I said, we have to have it.
(25:49):
Amazing and I collect police memorabilia and it's great because
I've made many friends with police around the world over
the years. And when they retire, seen their badges or
the trunches up there.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I was wondering what those were.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
I thought there were the handles of pots and pans
for a minute, and now we can see their.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Truncheons wonderful with some modern art.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Oh my goodness me. You look at the views, ladies
and gentlemen.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
We have to say we have panoramic views out across
through the windows across Jersey.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Forget forgetting the panoramic views. I can't even see to
the end of Peter's office. Well, obviously, bites a pair
of us over to his island. We're going to have to.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You'll be massively welcome, you guys. There you go.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
You know you know what happened to us, Peter.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
We were invited to the Isle of Wight for a
festival and the vessel apparently the idea of having two
Brown writers in on the island at the same time
was a bit strange, and so we only had one
hotel room that was only thought we were one person,
so we had to share a bed more wise, so
(27:06):
so we have a bigger.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Place ere Isle of white Rock Festival back in nineteen
six and as a film a film school we made
we made a movie there called hey man, You're standing
on my hair.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Well, that's exactly what our bedroom was like that the
next morning.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
So then you should make a very sweet couple, you know,
and then you and then you and then you. Wonder Peter,
why Steven Spielsburg is not really sweating when one of
your films comes out. He should be depending on my head.
So the last question I did have for you is
what are you writing next?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
I'm currently writing. I mentioned writing a book on writing,
which is good come out oh twenty seven. Writing the
new Roy Grace at the Moment, which is something a
book was a huge influence on me and I think
it's a great book for any writer to read. It
was called britt My Arthur Hailey back in the sixties,
(28:04):
called Hotel. It's a wonderful book. It's all a hotel
in New Orleans and all these different characters, including a
burglar who's going to rob the rooms, and an aristocratic couple.
Saying it is he was a brilliant at writing research,
and I've always wanted to write reading since reading that,
I wanted to write a novel set in a hotel.
(28:24):
So I've actually the New roy Grace is set in
a pictorious hotel and Brighton Seafront, very much model on
the Grand Hotel, and I did a day there as
a concierge. I was in full uniform and I got
a five pound tip for carrying some luggage out.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Not you wouldn't have got it if Abby had wandered
and he just got no way. He's giving maybe at
the most.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
My own luggage. Thank you very much, but that's impressive.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Well, before leads us out in an outro, what I
would also like to say and put on record is
that over the years that we've known, you've certainly but
I think it's a general consensus in the industry. You
are one of the nicest and most generous people on
the circuit. You've helped countless other authors as you've gone along.
(29:13):
You really believe in that whole thing of you know, once,
you've made it to not pull up the ladder, but
to help others to on their way up the ladder.
And we've both benefited from your generous generosity. So thank
you very much, Peter.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
That's hugely kind. Thank your grade.
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Second, and I say it needs to extend to us
coming to stay at your house as well. Okay, so
don't pull up the ladder before that.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
You're massively, massively welcome. I'd love to see you lovely.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
And that brings us the close of another episode.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Once again, if you've liked the show, can we ask
you to leave a of you sign up for regular
episodes using your favorite podcast app, and please do spread
the word so fast.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Do you think we should invite Queen Camilla on the.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
Podcast to talk about Peter's books.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Only if we don't mind being sent to the tower.
Speaker 4 (30:08):
And on that revolutionary note, we've been your friends. The
Red Hot Chiley writers on Murder Judge
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