127. From Passion to Pro: How Music Mentorship & Networking Grow Your Career Fast

In this episode of Musicians Tip Jar, we break down the 5 most powerful ways to get personalized help in your music career:

🎯 Mentorship
🤝 Accountability partners
🎤 Music community
📚 Formal instruction

📖 Self-guided learning Learn how to find a music mentor, build a strong network, stay motivated, and grow both creatively and financially as a musician. Whether you're just starting out or hitting a plateau, these tools will accelerate your success. 📈 Real stats, actionable steps, and resources included!

💡 Featuring non-profit spotlights like Women in Music and practical tools to level up your skills. 👉 Subscribe for more musician-focused financial tips and career tools!

📬 Visit: https://www.musicianstipjar.com

🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more. #musicians #musicmentor #musiccareer #networking #artistdevelopment #musicbusiness #diyartist #musicianstipjar

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/musicians-tip-jar--4698023/support.

Visit MusiciansTipJar.com for more resources and tools to empower your financial journey.

Intro & Outro Music Donated by: The Magi https://www.themagimusic.com 

Intro Read by: David “DJ” Lee of The Magi

https://soundcloud.com/rockababyrock 

Pictures by: Kit Chalberg https://kitchalberg.com/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies
on rocking the financial side of your music business. With
over forty years combined experience, here are your hosts, Chris
Webb and Dave Tamkin.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Musicians Tip Jar, where we talk about musicians
and money. As we get older, we remember all the
people we lost along the way, which also reminds us
why being hiking guides was probably a bad choice. I'm
Chris Webb, joined by my co host and my personal
dad joke guide, Dave Tamkin.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Thanks for having me back, Chris, It's good to be here.
Looking forward to this very in depth review of how
You Keep Me in line all these podcasts.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
In today's episode, we dive into all the key ways
you can get personalized help to grow your music business
and your career because no one makes it alone in
this industry. Today's quote comes from Denzel Washing. Show me
a successful individual, and I'll show you someone who had
real positive influences in their life A mentor.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Was that inspiring for you, because it's the only one
that I added to this one, So just don't be
expecting any more inspiring quotes. That's what I'm saying this
ex non profit is Women in Music the industry is
leading nonprofit dedicated to education, support, empowerment, and recognition for musicians.

(01:30):
Founded in nineteen eighty five, WIM now has chapters worldwide
and offers memberships and mentorship programs, seminars, and a supportive community,
especially for women in the music industry. Nonprofits like WIM
and others such as Grammy Foundations Initiatives are invaluable resources
where you can find mentors, networking events, and workshops, often

(01:50):
at a low or no cost. They exist to empower
artists like you, so consider exploring the programs as you
see guidance in your career. Learn more at Women in Music.
If you find this information newsful, everyone please rate and
subscribe to the podcast and also slam that like button
on YouTube so we can help keep you up on
the finance side of your business.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Today we explore how you, as a musician, can find
personal guides to boost your career and income. We'll break
down the five major support paths, which are mentorship, accountability partners, community,
formal instruction, and DIY resources. By the end of this
you'll know how each of these can accelerate your artistic
growth and financial empowerment. We'll have real examples, inspiring quotes,

(02:36):
and practical tips for accessing these supports.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Let's go, Chris, why are we discussing this today?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Oh, to count the ways?

Speaker 4 (02:57):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
It's funny because we're we're always trying to figure out
the best way to get to where we want to
go to the fastest possible right, and so often that
means put your head down and do the work. But
there's also this other aspect that we forget. How much
more we can accomplish together or with the influence of

(03:20):
other people. And as you become the successful person, this
is something you're going to crave to want to give back,
to give other people a quicker start. A lot of
times when you're looking at courses and all the stuff
that we'll talk about, it's because people wanted to give
other people a quicker chance to get to where they
got to. Right. It feels really good to give back.

(03:41):
So why are we discussing this? Because you're going to
spend a lot more time doing this alone if you
don't get help. Just within the earning potential. I found
a study from the Wharton School of Business where they
found that mentees earned twenty five thousand dollars more annually
on avage than those that didn't have a mentor. And

(04:02):
that's just in general business. I think in the music
industry this would probably be way higher because it's also
about the connections they provide.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well. I found in LinkedIn Learning in twenty twenty one
because once I heard you were doing research, I did
research too. Mentees report a forty percent increase in soft
skills such as communication, leadership, and emotional intelligence.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Those are big because communication and leadership I don't think
they come naturally for most people. And those are things
that you can't really understand what good examples of them
look like until you've had a mentor that's good at it.
It's just something that most of us don't instinctively understand.
I had another one too, from the actual from the

(04:43):
US Small Business Administration, which we all call the SBA.
Probably had to deal with them before. If you're a
music business.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Do you do you just call them the SBA? Yeah,
you're that familiar with them.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yes, you haven't had to send them stuff, especially during
COVID My god.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Anyways, this is my example of survival. Seventy percent of
small businesses that receive mentorings survive more than five years,
and as we know that five years is a big
marker for the odds of your business succeeding long term.
So that's double the survival rate of non mentored businesses.
The biggest thing for me about that is that there

(05:26):
are statistics that show the difference of survival clearly is
way better for people who have mentors versus those that don't.
So what we're talking about here is trying to give
you that odd that those odds that increase seventy percent
just by making deliberate choices to get some support in

(05:48):
these areas that we're going to talk about. So let's
start with the first one, unlocking your potential, the power
of the music mentorship. So what is a music mentor.
A music mentor is typically an experienced individual in the
music industry. Can be a season a musician, a producer,
a manager, a sound engineer, even successful songwriters are great

(06:13):
mentors to have, all depending on what it is you're
trying to do. They will offer you knowledge and insights,
lessons that they've learned along the way, things that can
shortcut your journey and help guide develop your yourself as
an artist or as as a musician. Their roles extend
beyond just giving you advice, though of course they provide

(06:33):
a personalized roadmap. They help you identify your strengths and
refine your craft and navigate the challenges of the industry.
They can also tell you things that you're wasting your
time on that you may not realize you're wasting your
time with.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Just think of ten thousand hours as a musician, how
long you've practiced to get that time in and they
say that's what three hours a day on average. Is
someone you know that works to get those ten thousand
hours and all the information you have from a producer,
a manager that have already put in those ten thousand
hours that you can lean on for information that you
would never have that time in your life to know

(07:10):
about those things to get an edge.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
The impact of mentorship has been shown over and over again.
There's a reason that most businesses that people that are
rising to the top of traditional business part of the
journey is expected to have mentors and include some sort
of mentorship program. In one Berkeley College of Music survey,
they found ninety two percent of musicians said said mentorship

(07:35):
positively affected their careers, making them happier with their trajectory
and even leading to higher earnings than those without the mentorship.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
I mean, imagine having someone there that you don't have
to bang your head against the wall to figure out
problems that they've already solved so many years ago and
have seen people repeatedly make these mistakes that they you
can avoid that now because of their expertise.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Legends like doctor dre guided M and M and his ascent.
I mean, yes, they're providing them opportunity, but they're also
guiding their choices. David Bowie influenced lou Reid. I never
tell you I met lou Reid once.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
No, couldn't you start from the beginning and now.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
I know I'll give the short story though. I was
working as a caterer for just a small catering company
and we got catered to do a funeral. And at
the funeral, this was in Saint Charles, Illinois. This was
not in a place where you would think this is
gonna occur. And at the at the house where the funerals,

(08:40):
it's just like an after party. You know, that's probably
not what you call after a funeral. What do they
call that? The wake. Yeah, during that time, I heard
some music playing in one of the bedrooms. I literally
was like walking around with a dish full of you know,
or derbs, and I heard people playing guitar and singing,

(09:01):
and I like, you know, as a musician, and was
in my teens, like late teens. I opened the door
and sitting on the bed is lou Reid and like
four other people playing guitars, just hanging out in the room.
It was like, what is going on here? Like? So
it turns out that he was his white it was
his wife's family member, so he was there for that.

(09:26):
So yeah, I got to sit there and listen to
them just play some songs. They didn't mind. They were
super nice about it. I mean, kind of an amazing
experience for me. I know, I was trying to be
somber with the occasion, but they weren't being somber. They
were having a good time, so whatever. But it was
that was my lou Reed experience.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
Well, much better than opening up with the casket and
seeing lou Reid.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
That's true. It wasn't that long after that.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
That twenty thirteen he passed.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, anyways, back to this point of finding those strong
mentors can be a catalyst to trajectory on your music journey.
For a lot of people, this is a massive shortcut,
a massive shortcut. So by actively seeking and fostering these relationships,
you can gain a significant advantage in building and fulfilling

(10:14):
your music career. So that being said, how do you
find a mentor? Now? We wanted to give these to
you because we don't want you just to be like, oh,
I need a mentor and then just kind of and there, right,
or just kind of go for the low hanging fruit.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Your neighbor Frank.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
So freak I was like, you play guitar, right, So
what we want to do is give you some places
where you might actually find some quality options for this.
And you know, the other thing about this is doesn't
need to be too formal. A mentor doesn't need to
sign a contract, right, So what we're trying to do
is give you places where you might attract the right

(10:58):
fit for you. But don't think of this as being
like you need to bring up a proposal. It's a
marriage or something. So the first place that you can
go is to these music workshops or to these courses.
Enrolling in some sort of workshop or specialized music courses
was where somebody is already offering their mentorship option to you, right,

(11:19):
so you're going to pay for it. But a lot
of times you're going to pay for the great mentors anyways,
no matter what. So instructionals or music courses can be
a really good place to start with this. And yes,
these are mentorships because these are experienced people giving you
their knowledge in a shortcut way. Another one is organizations
that offer structured programs, for instance, the Grammy, you by

(11:43):
the Recording Academy, or they compare you with emerging artists
and industry veterans, especially if you're in places where there's
a mecca of this stuff like LA or New York.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
You have to check out musician Guidance as well. They
connect indie artists to experience, producers, managers, even Grammy winners
for one on one mentoring. But it's like alac Hart,
it's pretty awesome. I'll put a link in the website
for everyone to check out.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
And then another one. No matter where you are, you
can look for networking events and the tend music conferences
that are you know, anywhere around the world, but the
closer to you, the easier. These are, but sometimes you
do got to travel to find these things local songwriter
meetups or another option industry panels. Even in your city
or the city closest to you, they'll have industry panels

(12:33):
a lot of times, like the city will put them
on and you know, offer kind of like a free
boost to their local community with having these industry panels.
And so a mentor relationship often starts with just a
simple conversation of meeting these people at these events and.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Don't be afraid to reach out directly, send a polite
professional email or social media message requesting a short meeting
or advice to any like local artists or producer that
you might know or admire. Many veterans, many veterans, many
it is a Memorial Day weekend, many veterans. Not these
kinds of veterans are happy to pay it forward, which

(13:11):
is what we talked about earlier before we got on
this phone call. But you utilize those professional platforms to
search them out, but don't be afraid just to send
an email. And that's something that even now when we're
looking for guests, I learned. I would say two thousand
and eight, I had a friend that we were starting

(13:31):
the business together, and he was fearless as far as
calling anyone famous. Didn't care. And me, I see someone famous,
even sides, I was a little like, oh my god,
she's on our podcast. But Martin Sexton met him and
I get all weirded out for whatever reason. But he
had no problem calling people. And now I got to

(13:51):
that point where I just called someone. Last week I
read a great post about him helping musicians. He has
a great website, and I hope to bring him on.
He had a phone number right there at the end.
I just pick up the phone and calls right there,
left the message saying we're wonderful website, wonderful podcast. We're
doing the same thing. Love to connect, set me text,

(14:13):
best voicemail I got all day. And sometimes it's just
that easy. And now you know, going back and forth,
and he has a podcast like ours, and hopefully I'll
get to learn something from him because he's been doing
it a lot longer than us.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
That's cool. It's sometimes it's in our head that it's
so hard to reach them, right, Like the barrier is
so thick. But when you look a little harder, you're like, oh,
there's a phone number. You know, another example of that
too is at the university, we just had Gregor Yellen
Isaacov come in and sit with the students and just
kind of chat with him, which is another advantage of

(14:48):
being in a community as a school like that, and
it was incredible. But while we were sitting there, the
other thing that I found out was that one of
the other long term professor's storm we've had on our
show season one. Yeah, he teaches a lot of business
courses and in one of his courses, he had brought
in Gregory's or one of his managers to just kind

(15:10):
of talk a guest lecture and during that, one of
the students reached out to the guest the manager and
was you know, offered to be to be involved and
just asked for some help. And now she's been one
of his long term tour managers for the last teen

(15:32):
years since then. So those kind of things too, it's
like you just you're just asking for opportunity, but you're
also ready, you know, you're you're also ready to do
the work, and those can lead to the most unexpected
ways to great opportunities and careers. And you don't have
to be in person to do this. You can also do,
and most of this stuff online. There's a lot of

(15:54):
forums and groups. Reddit has got a plethora of these.
But also anytime you join an of these courses, they're
often combined with forums that are especially created for those members,
and it can really be a great resource to just
throw ideas out there and keep each other in check.

(16:16):
Which we'll talk about accountabilities here in a second, but
this can easily become both of those things. You can
find mentors, You can also find accountability partners.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Definitely ask other musicians, leverage your existing network. You can
have a mentor that you've been hanging out with for
years and just not know that they can have this
experience and maybe a little bit ahead of you in
their career that you can learn from. And I'm sure
there's something you can offer them as well too, or
place in their career that maybe you might be ahead of.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
That's a really good point that you don't need to
find somebody that's at the top, right. We often forget
that just leaning into our community in a way that like, well,
you did something that I want to be able to do.
That's enough, right to just get some to sit down
for coffee for a you know, a thirty minute conversation

(17:05):
and by just buying them coffee, you can find out
some shortcuts just to that one thing that you're trying
to do.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
I know you had a mentor with your finances in
real estate. Can you tell us a little bit about
that and how it even started.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Well, you know what, I've actually had two, one more
for business and one for real estate, and both of
them organically happened. One was just my real estate agent
and we just started hanging out and he was he
was into the same kind of concepts of like, you know,
a lot of real estate agents are like minded, you know,
to do music industry professionals because we're trying to grow

(17:43):
this and build this. And so he was hosting just
mastermind groups and so he invited me to come to those,
and I would just start coming and we would do
he was like the whole thing, Like we would build
you know, cup stacks and like just funny things that
you do to kind of like talk about the way
you approach stuff, and and you know, we would just

(18:06):
spend time talking about how each of us did what
we said we were going to do a month ago
when we last met those. That was really cool and
that that taught me that you are really just absorbing
the energy sometimes of other people that are as dedicated
to this as you. But he also taught me a
lot about the real estate industry and understanding some of

(18:28):
those ins and outs that you would have spent so
many hours on a book trying to learn some of
these basic things. Sometimes just somebody just showing it to
you is so much easier, at least from the way
I learn to grasp it quicker. My other mentor was
a student that I was teaching guitar to, and he's
just a very successful business person and he still is

(18:51):
a mentor to me. I've been working with him for
over a decade. I've basically now exchanged my time helping
him as it to teach him how to play the
guitar and sing and write songs in exchange for his
continued mentorship of helping me structure my business and make
better choices when I'm trying to make business choices, and

(19:13):
helping me focus on things that I really wasn't focused on,
how to multiply my time as a business owner, and
all these things that don't come as instinctively when you're
the brand. You know that kind of removal from that
concept has been all because of him. So those things
have been invaluable to me. And it was never formally

(19:34):
like I'll be your mentor, you know, it was never formal.
So I just want to reiterate that because it's important
to know that sometimes these organic situations occur and you
understand that they're mentoring you. They understand that they're mentoring you,
but you're never really making it such like a formal thing.
You're just allowing it to occur.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
How awesome is that when you're getting together, you're getting
together with someone you respect, became friends with your real
estate agent, so now you have this emotional connection too
when you're learning, So that helps you learn easier too,
when you could put those memories with something that you
really enjoyed doing. And then your other mentor you're playing

(20:14):
music with, so that too, you have that connection where
you're going back and forth lifting each other up.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Mm hmm. Yeah, And that's important that there's there's a chemistry,
right no matter any of these that you go with,
If you guys don't feel naturally comfortable, it's probably not
going to last long. I mean, it's just going to
be harder to work.

Speaker 3 (20:37):
Well, that's a good transition to accountability partners as well.
And you just said that you know you were checking
in with him too. Did we do everything we said
we were going to do last month. So let's move
on to the second one. Because this is what a
good accountability partner does. They know that you haven't seen
your wife in two weeks, that she's going to fly

(20:58):
in to Milwaukee, drive an hour and a half home,
get home about midnight, and that you might be up
to two three thirty in the morning having drinks, buy
a fire and you still get up at a thirty
in the morning to clear your throat, take a shower,
and get ready for musicians tip Jar podcast because Chris
web said, let's do this, stay committed. I don't care

(21:22):
if you haven't seen your wife. Priorities, Dave priorities, and
I said, you're right, An could take a back seat
since tip Jar Chris, I hope she listens to this podcast.
But the Gunda billion partners usually just, you know, appear
someone at a similar stage whom you agree to exchange
mutual support and hold other each other accountable for your goals.

(21:45):
So having that mutual respect to equals checking in pushing
one another to stay motivated and celebrate progress at now
ten o'clock in the morning on a Saturday, after staying
up till three thirty. What does that matter, Chris? Why
does it matter?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Well? Actually, the main thing that I just took away
from what you said was that accountability partners have a
magic power to make time right. We always talk about
we all struggle with time and this concept of do
I have enough time to do all these things that
I need and want? And what I just did for

(22:27):
you was made time, you know what I mean. And
we sometimes will excuse It's a lot of times it's
our own excuse. I'm going to sleep in because of
all the things you just said, and not that they're
not valid, and not that they're not important, but truthfully,
you made them work and you still have time right.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
I will add to that that I was taking the
dogs for a walk yesterday and my neighbor Steve said,
there's a new farmer's market up the road. They had
this cheesy bread and scoms. Do you want to go?
I go? What time? He's like, I can pick you
up at eight? I said, do you think we could
be back by eight thirty? No? Problem eight o'clock, right
out in front. I got up, got coffee with them

(23:08):
and got some fresh air, which would have never happened
if I wasn't preparing for this, which is so easier,
so much easier to say yes to him, and I
didn't miss out on a great morning.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, so welcome.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yeah I knew that was coming. But you know, it
adds a bit of friendly pressure. But I think you
and I also have this thing that we care about
so much and we want to show up. No one
is making us show up for it. And as much
as you're offering your time, we also know that that

(23:43):
time is valuable for each other too. We know how
I know how hard you work. So if we're going,
especially into a weekend, like a holiday weekend, this means
something for us to get up and do it. And
it is nice to have someone to help you push
like that. And if you do it with social medium marketing,
if you can do it with learning a new song

(24:03):
every week, it's harder to hit snooze when your friend
is like, come on, let's get up and get going.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Totally well, and and let's just offer this maybe as
us being mentors anybody listening right now, is that things
are never going to be convenient when it comes to
making all of this work. If you want to get
this kind of stuff done, I mean, this is how
it works. You're you're you're you're making time. That's what
you're constantly doing. And last night, I mean, I was

(24:33):
playing show till late too, and I had a hard
time going to sleep after that and then got up early.
I'm leaving on an international flight here in hours. And
you know, you're making time because these things are important
and that is the only way that they get done.
So if I was to say anything out there to anyone,
if you're around people that don't make time, it's time

(24:55):
to move on this. This is there's an opposite end
of this. There. There is something to remember that if
your accountability partners, because the people around you are influencing you,
maybe they're not accountability in the way that you want.
Maybe their accountability is, hey, let's play video games for
the next six hours and then totally blow off the
thing that we said we were so going to do tomorrow.

(25:16):
Make sure your accountability partners are accountability in a positive way, right,
make sure that they're actually helping push you towards what
it is that you want out of all.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
This because we do such a good job. We can
and week out for not only showing enough to talk
to each other, but as far as our deadlines are concerned, editing,
doing graphics. I also found that I am much more
relaxed when you or I have to cancel on something
because we know how much we like doing this. So

(25:46):
if there is a reason to like move things, which
we both had to do in the past. There's also
almost a piece to it for me, like it's never
a letdown feeling because I know you'd want to be
there and I know you know I want to be there.
So something has come up. Let's make this work.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah, it's a trust. Yeah, it's a trust. And that
is what you build with with accountability partners, is that
if something's really occurring, you trust that that's because it's
something that's worth the issue, you know. And again like
that if that was you from last night getting up,
staying up till three, and then blowing this off because

(26:24):
you slept through it, that would be a different conversation,
right like, and you would never do that. And that's
that's the trust. And I think that you build that
with certain people and you see their true colors with
certain people that they're just not in the place to
do that. They may not be able to survive this
industry because their priorities still are not going to help them,

(26:45):
you know. And I think we both were in phases
of that in our career as well. So there's empathy
there if someone's in that phase, because it may be
just where they're at and you don't need to abandon
them completely, but I would not put them as your
accountability partner, right, So, how do you find good accountability

(27:05):
partners personally? I think the first thing to do is
look for the ones that are working harder than you.
I like to look for people in my circles of
musicians that are, you know, active, posting a lot, releasing
a lot of music, engaging in the community in a
lot of ways, and helping other people. When you see
musicians that are giving to other people in your community,

(27:27):
those are the ones I want to attract myself towards.
It could be someone else in your band. Sometimes, if
you have people in your band that are not accountability partners,
you're in trouble. But it can be other people that
you're meeting at open mics. Or if you're going to
those kind of connections or those online music groups and forums,
you don't have to dismiss any of this. Those are
all potential ways. I met my bass player on Craigslist, really, yes, yes,

(27:55):
And I don't know if that's really the way to
go anymore, because I met a lot of people that
would not be good fits on Craigslist. But I got lucky.
I guess with that one experience. But you just don't know.
You just don't know, but you'll know when you know, right.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
And finding that accountability partner, the way they hold you
accountable matters as well. I have two accountability partners, Chad
and Brad. Chad is the kind loving you can do this, Dave,
Let's do it. Let's do it one more time. You
got this? You know, hit that note, learn that solo
we got all the time we're playing music, Dave, and

(28:33):
we got Brad. Why don't you know this? I know,
I can't prepared. I know all my shit. Your name
is on this band. Shouldn't you know it more than
I know it? Yes? Brad? Yes, Brad, Well, don't waste
my time. I won't waste yours. Yes, Brad, Yes, Brad.

(28:53):
But they're both right. You know.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
It's like you got a good cop bad cop partnership
at your band. If you ever had a fourth member,
I'm not sure what they would their role would be.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
No, I'd be afraid.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Maybe the one that takes out the trash.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah. Another accountability partner, and she does this for so
many musicians is Mecan Burt with her monthly song writing
group that het at her house the last Sunday of
every month, and so many great musicians show up and
they continue every month to write a new song. And
that's the thing. You have to write something that's new.

(29:29):
And I've gone once or twice, and I'm scared to
share lists of that group because such a good job
of I've and writing a song and that's why they
show up, and I don't.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
You can agree that when you go to those places,
you feel excited. And that's something that I wanted everyone
to take away from this. Is what I've seen, is
that when you feel the adrenaline rush, the true excitement,
you know, that excitement that can get lost over the
years of trying to pursue this kind of thing, those

(30:01):
are the real places that you want to put your
energy and time into because it's about staying in that place.
It's about staying motivated and excited and nervous. Excitement is good, right,
being Like I mentioned a couple episodes ago, I'm always
feeling like if I'm not reaching out and making myself

(30:21):
nervous in these potential opportunities, then I'm a little disappointed
to myself. And I've learned that over the years because
when you step away, it's very easy to step away
into this safe place that doesn't feel exciting. I mean,
it doesn't feel threatening, but it then also of course
doesn't feel exciting. So you really need to find ways

(30:43):
to stay in those kind of environments. And that's what
we're saying with these partners is you want a part
of that makes you feel motivated and excited and challenged
and a little nervous and a little overwhelmed. And all
of those things are actually the way you grow, right.
In order to grow muscle, you have to rip it
apart first. You have to do these things in order

(31:05):
to progress.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
About being comfortable and just relating to this story. And
I haven't seen her for two weeks because she's been
in Nashville training for this new job in the sales role.
So she's been in Colorado at the same practice for
ten years and when she went to the surgeon to
say she was quitting, he was championing her. Did I

(31:31):
say that right? Championing?

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Champion championing? Oh yeah, what is that right? Well, know
what you mean?

Speaker 3 (31:39):
He was rooting for her. By the end, he was like,
this is what you need to do. This is a
new frontier. I'm going to put you in front of
all these different people, all these different doctors, these surgeons,
and I'm sure she was scared shitless, but that drive
wasn't It didn't compare to the ten year of being comfortable.

(32:01):
And now there's a new opportunity and she had to
go for it, how to take a risk and really
proud of her and just to see her glow because
of it. But again a mentor and the surgeon's wife
called her too and said you're going to do great
at this because they've been friends for ten years. But
and she does the same thing that Anne's going to
do now.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
So well, I think once you find these partners too,
and you agree that you're going to do this, because
this is something where I versus a mentor, where it
doesn't need to be stated necessarily as clearly that you're
often is, but it doesn't have to be stated that
you're going to be a mentee with them. The accountability,

(32:41):
I do think is worth communicative effort, you know, being
clear that you two are holding each other accountable, let's
do this, let's help each other, you know, and some
of this will happen organically, but it's I think more
beneficial to be more communicative about what it is you're
going to try to hold each other accountable with. So
set very specific goals can be useful. If it's just

(33:04):
something like writing a new song every month like Megan does,
or it can be practicing a certain amount of hours
per week showing each other the new or setting like
little videos of each other's new licks that you learned
on your instrument. It could be that you kind of use.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
It's just look a weird turn.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Too early, or just you know, getting together once a
month to go through these things. Whatever it is that
you're setting your goals for. But making time and clear
objectives with that is really important in order to get
the most out of what an accountability partner can offer.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Keep track of that I mentioned I think last week.
I used streaks. Good with streaks, but a Google sheet.
It's really makes a difference when you can look back
and see all you've done, and even if it's that
one percent better every time that you have somewhere to
document that. So make a Google spreadsheet that you both

(34:04):
can share ad notes as we do that with notes
and who are going to reach out to, who gets
what done? It's just nice to see that progress is
being made.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
The next one that we wanted to highlight is community.
This is about finding your tribe and your network. We
talk a lot about this in so many episodes because
this is one of those ones where if you aren't
a part of a community, you're isolated. Right, the opposite
of community is isolation, and no musician will ever succeed

(34:36):
in isolation. And even if they are in isolation, the
rest of the community knows they're in isolation, so they're
still a part of the community. I think of like Bonavert, right,
like he went and wrote that album while letting everyone
know he was out by himself writing that album, so
it was like not the same. Right, Isolation in this

(34:58):
context means that you're not connecting with people, that you're
not trying to put anything into the community or into
the environment of the music industry in your area, and
that isolation will only result in dead ends. So finding
your tribe, finding a network isn't just about making friends.
It's about actually developing opportunity for everyone. Right, So a

(35:24):
music community is all the other musicians and the producers,
the engineers, the venue owners, right, anybody that's talking about
the industry or involved in any way to support that industry.
Those folks around you. Those can be in the government,
they can be in your local music shops, they can
be all of those things. They can also be online,

(35:45):
so you really can look in so many different areas,
but they all are part of this overall community. So
it provides broad support and knowledge that you can share
and opportunities that are occurring. You just won't know about
them unless you're tapped into these networks. So it's a
whole bunch of different ways that this all provides benefit

(36:07):
to you.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
And it could be hard later to in life to
if you're not at the bars all the time, or
if you're not at all these shows, to be a
part of that music community. So you know, look up songwriter,
associate songwriter, Association got that out okay, in Madison, in Boulder,
in Chicago, wherever you are, musician unions, meeting groups, open

(36:31):
mic nights. I went to an open mic two weeks
ago in like Geneva, Wisconsin. Lake Geneva Music Hall packed
and everyone greeted each other when they came in Frank,
good to see you, Cindy, how are you? It was
just who cares? What they sounded like. It was just
a bunch of people getting together to play songs for
each other. It was awesome. You could dive into communities

(36:55):
like subreddits. We have the music makers Facebook groups. If
you're over for I found great meetups in Colorado for
the cold Plunges. There's plenty for musicians as well. Everyone
shows up like minded to share ideas. So don't be
a wallflower. Show up, look for your community, because they're

(37:17):
already looking for you. You just need to say, hey,
I'm over here.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah. And let's add one more thing about the community
that I think is important to know is that you
have to make it work for you. And so, as
you said, it depends on where you're at in life
how that is going to work. If you're a full
time performer, it can be really hard to go show

(37:42):
up for everyone else's shows. It is the hardest part
for me. I just had to sell my Coldplay tickets
because I got booked for an event up in Veil,
and it was heartbreaking to do that, but it was
the right call because it's a lot of money. It's
good for my business. Right So again I'm missing out
on something that was, you know, really something I was
looking forward to. But when it comes to local shows

(38:03):
that it happens NonStop with my students. They all have
these shows and they want me to come, and I
really want to be there, but I'm booked two. It's
a very challenging part. So for me, and I think
a lot of people that are like that, it's I
have to be texting everyone a lot, I have to
be sending emails. I have to make coffee dates during
the day with people and do that type of heavier

(38:25):
lifting so that it compensates for the fact that I
can't be there for their show. A lot of times
I'll have people video their show so that I can
watch it later, so that I can still feel like
I'm helping or being supportive, you know, in my own way.
So wherever you're at like these young groups. I think
about like what Seattle must have been like in the nineties,

(38:45):
where they all were at each other's shows non stop.
They were all in each other's bands NonStop. Right, The
community experience for them at that age group is easier
to do. So wherever you're at, just understand that there
are different parameters you're gonna be work with.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
And after everything you said, this is what I got
from that. Sometimes it's hard to go see my friends
play shows. I just had to sell my coplay tickets.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, Chris is not going to be happy and moving
on from that though. Another opportunity for us all to
be progressing, as with mentorships or guides, is formal instructions.
This one I think everyone should have one or two
in their pocket at all times. This is just my
opinion on that, but I think that if you have

(39:32):
at least one or two to be this could be classes,
it could be workshops, it could be other programs that
are offered in your community groups, but some sort of
structured learning opportunities. One or two of these, especially if
they're not time sensitive, so that you could just continue
down another course whatever you have the time. I think

(39:53):
is very useful because then you're always learning. For me,
I'm always reading a book, I'm always having one or
two courses existing in my you know, but not more
than that. Once you started trying to go too many,
like you won't get anything done. So somewhere in there's
a sweet spot for everyone, depending on how you tend
to be do the delegating your time, but finding some

(40:13):
sort of ways to get these curriculums involved in learning
things that you want to learn from these courses that
other people have created. It saves you a lot of
time and energy and loads the information into your brain
like a quick upload.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
I highly recommend for guitarists out there looking for something
that will always show up and always get better have
new musicians to learn from. Is pickupmusic dot com. It
is my guitar Bible lately. I show up every day
because I know there's something new. I can keep track
of where I was, and it's just that little win.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Learning the business and the marketing side of things throughout
workshops and courses can even give you a ton of
extra cash because you might be making small choices that
help earn a lot more. Sometimes we're just leaking money
out of our pockets because we're making bad choices that
we don't even know we're doing, especially in the tax
world and the licensing world. So it's really it's about

(41:11):
making efforts to prevent the leakage of extra money, right.
And then also just a couple like I always say,
with these books that I read, sometimes you just get
through all these hours of reading, but one thing just
jumps out at you, and that one thing was waiting
for you and needed you to be aware of it
so that everything else can have its trajectory be changed.

Speaker 3 (41:34):
And it again goes back to where you are in
your life. So what you might get out of the
book today might be something different in a year from
now if you go back, because there's so much information
in all of those books.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
I didn't start reading until I was in my mid thirties,
and I just want to say that so that people
understand that, like I didn't, this wasn't like a lifelong
thing for me.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
Did you get held back in school?

Speaker 2 (42:00):
I did in first grade.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
No reading until I was thirty. Accomplished quite a bit.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I mean, my childhood was full of a lot of challenges,
that's for sure, but that's not really why I didn't
start reading. I just I never felt good at it,
and because of that, I never wanted to be near it.
You know, there's a weird thing that that happens, but
I don't know, Like all of a sudden around in

(42:31):
my thirties, I started realizing how much I enjoyed learning itself,
you know, And so when I started doing audiobooks, that
helped an immense amount because I didn't have to feel
like I was a slow reader. And what's weird is
that as I did more audiobooks, I became a faster

(42:51):
reader when I actually read books too. So I don't
know how that works, but I just wanted to state
that wherever you're at, you might some of these might
come easier to you than others, and you might have
to find ways for yourself to absorb these resources that
fits you best with where you're at. But I wish
I could tell myself back in my twenties that you

(43:12):
should spend more time reading. Just find something that you enjoy,
and even if that's audiobooks, like find something because the
farther you can push yourself when you're not quite ready,
because you know it's worth it. I think will benefit
you immensely as you progress.

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Do you have some ideas for options that people could
go look for online courses or webinars music schools.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Yeah, though you don't need to go far to find
a course online anymore. There is a course for every
little thing in the music industry. We are on you
demi with ours and that's a good place to go. Yeah,
just to look. You can just easily search into these
demi type platforms and look for very specific That's what
I would also recommend is when you're looking for these

(44:00):
types of courses, this type of access into formal instruction,
The more specific, the better.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
Coursera.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Coursera is another good one that has tons. Then there's
also universities. A lot of universities are always promoting their
programs by giving out intro courses for their university. And
the one that comes to the mind most probably everyone
here listening has had an ad come to them with

(44:30):
is Berkeley College of Music. They're always giving out like
an intro course for this or that. Those aren't going
to be as I don't think useful personally, because I
don't think they're as specific as we should be looking.
Those are more like do I like this way that
this school presents stuff and do I want to go there?
And you know, a school like Berkeley is very very expensive,

(44:52):
so they're doing a lot to try to sell you
on that. But there's other places to find. Masterclass is
another one that we've been members of, and I think
the way they prevent present stuff is incredibly well put together.
And it can be very specific there too, actually, and
it can be in little niches like how to write

(45:13):
better scripts and for writing books and for writing poetry.
They have all these different specifics.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
So Masterclass has a huge library for musicians, huge hours
and hours well.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
And the other benefit of that is like you're learning
from like Michelle Obama Orbie Hancock. Yeah, I mean, how
amazing is that to hear from them? And that's why
those kind of places are so incredible. And that can
be also the specific part too. It can be like
I want to learn from blank, and can I go
look and find something they've done, and that Masterclass is

(45:49):
the best place to look for very high profile people
that have given their time to help other people learn
how to do what they did.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
What do you get if you take the l out
of learning? Ooh, I guess earned it earning sorry, you
were going to answer that, and I just stole your thunder.
So these morning episodes, I tell you, well, you know,
we're talking about music quite a bit in this, but
also about finances and every skill piece of knowledge that

(46:17):
you get to pick up from formal instruction can directly
impact your bank account. Learning to produce your own music
saves you money, create new income streams as well. If
you're learning about contracts and publishing can prevent costly mistakes.
But every bit of education is like money in the bank,
so gaining interest in your entire career. Master of many,

(46:42):
not a master of one.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
What is it you think, after how many times we've
talked about it, you'd haven't memorized. A lot of effort
is a lot of none. No, no no. A master
of juggling, no no.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
A jack of all trades is a master of none,
but oftentimes better than a master of one.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
And it is true that we aren't trying and again
we're not trying to do one thing. You can't be
in this industry and do one thing. And that's really
what we're dancing around with the way that you look
for one of these mentorships or one of these types
of influencers for your career is you need to figure

(47:26):
out which ones you can fit into what you need
and what you have time for right now.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
And also make you more empowered to know your business.
Then someone to steal from you. You know, you don't
have to hire someone to play better than you.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, or maybe that's what you need absolutely.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
And they become a mentor you know, yes, or a
mentor tells you you can't do this. You need someone
who has more of a guitar vocabulary than you do. Well.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
So our last one is resources and self study. And
we've talked about this now a little bit, dancing around
it with the others, but just to kind of give
it its own little specific highlight DIY resources that you can
tap into anytime. Things like the books and the blogs
and the podcasts like this and the video series is
and the websites that you can just get free content from.

(48:24):
Those are easy ways to get some resources and self study.
These are always at your fingertips, right and you sometimes
can can consume these and passive ways. And I think
that that's also good because it keeps you just kind
of moving around dancing with new information and again keeps
you in an inspired place. Sometimes we get those those

(48:44):
eblasts from sides and her stuff is just so simple
and inspiring, and that's sometimes what you need just to
get going, you know. So these are little like kicks
in the butt, right, Self education stuff, consuming things at
your pace are really valuable to do. And as we've
talked about already, that can be just an audiobook that
gets popped down every time you get into your car

(49:06):
for your commute to your show.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Also, great podcasts like the DIY Musician podcast, Music Business
worldwide podcasts don't keep your day job creative juice. Rick
Pattle's awesome on YouTube. I don't know if you follow
him at all, but he's got a lot of great stuff.
And what's that musicians Tip Jar, Chris Webb and Dap Damnkin.

(49:28):
I mean, hopefully that's at the top of your list.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
You need to be using these resources effectively. We all
know that we can get into that YouTube whole and
not get out of it for a couple hours. And
you started looking and researching about how to put your
pedal board together in a smarter way, and you ended
up watching YouTube videos about people jumping off cliffs in
you know, in MAUI or something. So it's really important

(49:53):
that you're using these resources effectively and staying focused with them,
and so target your learning and try to stick to
that when you're doing this. Also take actionable steps from these.
Don't try to consume a bunch of stuff and do
nothing with it. You need to know what actionable things
you can get out of this stuff, and that takes
a little skill. I think sometimes is recognizing. I mean,

(50:13):
YouTube has taught me a lot about home care. Like
I've learned a lot about how to fix things in
my house that I would have had to pay someone
else to do. And I think I just took that
extra time to learn those things. And I think that
by getting the one goal going into it, like oh
I need to learn how to replace this one little diode,
I'm going to learn how to do that on YouTube
and fix that one thing. If we can do that

(50:35):
with our music career, I think it's very useful in
this aspect of finding resources, is knowing what it is
you're trying to get specifically out of it before you
go into it.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Sides said that every post she makes, how does this
get me one step closer to my goal? This is
the niche that I'm It's not about food, it's about music.
So if we can say, hey, this is what we're
going to focus on YouTube to get the floors done
with equipment I don't own yet and I have to

(51:08):
go to home depot, I'm going to focus on that.
So it's throughout your day, just kind of having that
practice to switch your focus on what you want to accomplish,
and those little little active, consuming knowledge habits they start
to form and it's easier and easier to do.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
All right, So with all this, let's try to give
you some action step. What we'd like you to do
is put one area where you feel like you need
the most or some guidance on, and then take a
concrete step today to get that personal help. I think
a lot of us we already know that some of
these things are happening. So maybe by talking about this

(51:49):
it helps you clarify what those types are that you're
getting your resources through and maybe also identifying one that
you don't have yet and that might be the reason
to pick it. Thing with this, though, is that you
do take action, that you do something towards getting a
correct mentor or program that helps get you pushed forward,

(52:09):
So take immediate action on this. Don't sit on this
and then let it fade away like so many other
pieces of information that come flow into you. Make action
and then you'll get results. So choose your path getting
the personal guidance and then make the call, make that link,
send that email, do what you need to do to

(52:30):
connect to that opportunity. Just get the ball rolling. We
know your time is valuable and we appreciate you spending
this time with us and being a part of this community.
Is our hope that you feel that sense of community
here at musicians tip jar and that you'll help spread
the word to make us all stronger. If you'd like
to get a hold of us, what's the best way
to do that.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
Musicians tip jar Gmail and musicians tipjar dot com, where
you can check out all the resources and discounts we
have collected for you. Check out all our episodes now
on YouTube. If you find this information use full Please
rate and subscribe to the podcast and slam that like
button so we can help keep you up on the
finance side of your music business. And as always, we'd
love to hear from you. What did you do with

(53:12):
today's tips? Did you reach out to a mentor do
you start a new accountability partnership? Let us know. Please
share this episode if you found it useful.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
It helps us when we move a community if we
all share with each other what we're learning, and I
really think that that also can be useful. What we
want to do is build a community here where we
all can lean on each other. And it only works
the more people we get, right, The more people we get,
the better it works. Is how I should say that.
So please don't hesitate to send this to someone else

(53:41):
who might also be in the same boat as you
in looking for a way to rise the tide as always,
thank you for joining us, and remember there is already
enough for everyone. You just need to know how to
get it. Until next time on behalf of Dave Hampkin
and myself Chris Webb, Stay happy, healthy and wealthy. Every
small step towards knowledge and connection is a step towards

(54:04):
financial freedom. This is musicianship chat.

Speaker 5 (54:18):
Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal professional advice.
Please consult at appropriate time legal, business or financial professionals
for individualized advice. Individual results are not guaranteed, and all
discussed strategies have the potential for property class. The hosts
operating on half of musicians tape jar LC exclusive play