132. 10 Ways to Communicate Like a Pro in the Music Industry

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies
on rocking the financial side of your music business. With
over forty years combined experience, here are your hosts, Chris
Webb and Dave Tamkin.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Musicians Tip Jar, where we talk about musicians
and money. We always judge how good looking emails are
by their subject lines. I'm Chris web joined by my
co host and the guy who's always messing with his
junk box, Dave Tampkin.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Another inappropriate intro. Chris, thank you very much for that, though,
I have to say the last time you saw my inbox,
I think I was that maybe two thousand unread emails,
and I'm at about four hundred and fifty right now.
He'd be very proud. Yeah. I'm on this new mission

(00:50):
for July dry. July, uh make my inbox dry?

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Yeah, not to be confused with it.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yes, yes, no, I will be celebrating all through July,
although I haven't you know, I haven't had a drink yet.
There you go is July second.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Everybody, Well, today we get specific with how to effectively
and successfully communicate in the music business. We discussed best
practices for specific situations you may deal with and answer
the most common questions asked about how to deal with
being professional and securing more success by following these proven approaches.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Do you know the difference between specific and pacific? There's
a notion of a difference.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Christ I thought it had something to do with the notion.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
I yes.

Speaker 2 (01:40):
Today's quote comes from Taylor Swift. She said clear communication
is key to building trust and success in the music industry.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
This week's nonprofit is Madison Folk Music Society also called
Mad Folk. Don't foc around with them, Chris. It's a
nonprofit society dedicated to fostering foe acoustic music in the
greater Madison, Wisconsin area. Revenues are derived solely from membership
and concert ticket sales, plus special guests from members and others.
They create opportunities for folk musicians to play festivals, venues,

(02:12):
and house concerts all over Madison, Wisconsin. To learn more,
check out Madfolk dot com. If you like this information
and you find it useful, please rate, subscribe to the podcast,
and also slam that like button if you're on YouTube,
so it can help keep you up on the finance
side of your music business.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
We have condensed to list and techniques that we consider
to be best practices in the music industry for effective communication.
When implemented consistently, these healthy communication habits will bring you
more money and hire opportunity to contract conversion no matter
what area of the music business you're focused on. Let's

(02:50):
do this, let's go.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Out of all these best practices were going to be
going over, I noticed that we forgot to cover. If
you could only just read my mind, things would be
a lot easier. I think we should put that on
number eleven because I often say that to you because
I'm not as clear as I should be in some
of our communications and I end up just asking you

(03:34):
to please read my mind, and we would have solved
this earlier.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, it's I think a lot of artists do think
they're clairvoyant. That's true, and it also is true that
I think that's a common issue. I think a lot
of times we are more running our communication through our
head and we don't realize that some of the information
wasn't actually verbally communicated, and so we're not really aware

(03:58):
sometimes that we aren't being clear about some of the
details or some of the parts of what we're saying.
So that's why we talk about these things, because part
of this is always going to come back to that
reality that this is a practice and that all of
these things will help you. But unless you're actually trying
harder to or at least putting effort towards effectively communicating

(04:19):
using these tools, it's not going to improve. And part
of that is being aware how fast you're talking, being
aware of what you're saying, and maybe being more aware
of what you're leaving.

Speaker 3 (04:29):
Out and who you're speaking with because oftentimes, again something
I do is I assume that you know what I'm
talking about or someone else does, and maybe we don't
have the same history with what we're talking about. You
definitely with sinc me having no clue what I'm talking about.
With sync licensing, that might be an issue where you

(04:50):
might think that I know what you're talking about because
you're in it a lot more than I am, and
I fake it a lot more than you do. Off
So that that's what we're doing.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
So that actually transitions really nicely into our first of
our main best practices here. We got ten of them.
Number one is be clear and direct. This is about
avoiding ambiguity.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
Nice job, be.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Specific about expectations, timelines, roles and deliverables. Ambiguity kills trust,
so vague communication slows down decisions, causes misaligned expectation and
leads to lost money, miss deadlines, and unnecessary conflict. In

(05:40):
music where so much is informal and emotionally driven, clarity
is your secret weapon. The main thing to take away
about being clear and direct is that you're being specific
with your expectations. And we're going to spend the last
half of this podcast giving you specific examples on some
of these techniques, but just to kind of give you

(06:01):
the broad idea, we'll give you just a few as
we go. So to be specific would be something like,
don't say let's do a track together, right, but you
would say, instead, let's write it and record one song.
You handle the production and all right, the top line,
we can split it fifty to fifty and the ownership
and you know, those kind of communications are very direct

(06:24):
and clear, right, And you could say something that can
we aim for three weeks, we'll get this done. That's
a very big difference between let's do a track together. Right.
That's why those things never amount to anything, and.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
You don't know what people are working on, so say
maybe I'm expecting you know, you to send stems by Tuesday,
and I'm just saying, hey, send those over to me
and I'll get right on it. And for you that
might mean the following Tuesday or two tuesdays from now,
so you can clearly say, hey, I have time this

(06:57):
weekend or after Tuesday, can you get them to me
by tuesday and I'll have them done to you by Friday.
Constantly setting deadlines and making sure those are.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Clear always as sign dates, even if they're tentative, something
like I'll get you those vocal stems by next Friday.
Then you give yourself a little bit of a window,
but you still know when it has to be done
by Let's review that mix by Tuesday, right Like, let's
take whatever, do it on your schedule, but let's plan
on tuesdays when we come back together with that. So

(07:27):
those are ways that we can get more specific with
that and less ambiguous about when we expect things to
be moving forward. Another end of this is to be
in contracts and written agreements. When we're talking about splits
and we're talking about royalties, and we're talking about negotiations
for contracts and performances, they have to be very specific.
They have to have a very clear outline of expectations.

(07:50):
Verbal agreements often lead to misunderstandings, and we just talked
about this in our I don't know what an episode
recently where the only performances head that didn't have contracts
smacked me back in the face for that exact reason.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
Yeah, did you turn the other cheek?

Speaker 2 (08:08):
I turned it around. They got two more cheeks.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
But so common mistakes to avoid don't assume someone remembers
what you said right last time you had a phone call,
last time I had a discussion. Another mistake is avoiding
written communication because if you don't have it written down somewhere,
whether it's a recap on that conversation or in writing,

(08:35):
who knows what people remember or how they think you
said something. And then also avoid over promising because you
just want to sound agreeable and easy to get along with.
Make sure that when you do communicate, your communicating within
the band of what you said you can do.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Second on our best practices list here is maintain professionalism
at all times. Be respectful and courteous. Music is emotional,
but business should stay professional.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
It's so hard to say, I think as a musician
who is used to only working on the performance side
of things and then going into the business side of
things and not putting their heart on their sleeve. I
know I really had a hard time with that when
I started working in affiliate marketing and working with different companies,

(09:27):
knowing that the last how many years that I did
any business whatsoever, it was with my closest friends. And
then you move on to a bunch of pretty much
strangers in that way as far as emotionally, but yet
you're working with them every day to then have to
communicate differently because there is no reason to put your
heart on your sleeve.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
And the truth is that you're not always gonna connect
with people that you're working with in the business, but
you still have to. You have to effectively communicate with them.
And part of that is getting along and not losing
your sh Yeah, because there's gonna be a lot of
times where you just want to you want to let
out some aggression in that next email, or you know,

(10:08):
you want to say something that would pull you down
on your professional level to a lower level, and and
that that can be that can be just a part
of this situation. And I'm sure this is all business.
Everyone doesn't love their coworkers, right, Like, there's always going
to be somebody that you don't get along with, but
you still have to. And so being professional at all

(10:28):
times means at all times talent will gets you in
the room. This is somebody always said talent gets you
in the room, but professionalism keeps you there.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Who said that? Do you remember? Recently? I don't know,
Vince Pipa squeally. You were on a roll, so that's
why that's probably why you said, you know, hey, you
you know, people always say that because he was saying
that no matter how much school he had under his belt,
that that could the paperwork would get him in the room,

(10:56):
but how he acted and how pro he was in
the room kept him there.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
And creative disagreements are gonna happen, Payments were gonna get delayed,
or things will get confused. You're gonna have bad shows, right,
You're gonna end up with situations that are very much
testing your ability to stay professional. And part of this
goes back to number one. All these work together right,
and being clear with your expectations and good with your

(11:22):
communication in that regard is going to help reduce the
odds of these situations getting out of hand. But truthfully,
no matter how hard you try, they come up. Things happen,
and this business is small.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Don't burn bridges. That kind of reputation gets around fast
if you're not pro to work with or difficult to work.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yep, and reputation is everything. Right, breaking down this professionalism
at all times into a subcategory, I think another one
to talk about is separate the art from the business.
This is something that can be very hard to do sometimes.
We've talked about when you're writing a you have to
be in an artistic space to really tap into that

(12:03):
part of you, right into that muse. But when you're
dealing with contracts or you're dealing with anything where it
comes down to the business end of things, you have
to switch over into that mindset, and part of that
is turning off that emotional side of you in order
to focus on being professional in the business aspect.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Definitely during text too, don't get hyper or upset from
any text received or send rage texts at two in
the morning or eleven in the morning for that matter.
You never know what the other person is going through
or how they meant something to So let's say, stay
off that phone as much as possible.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
And it is true that it's hard to read somebody's
inflections in a text. I mean we don't even realize
it sometimes, but when someone's texting us, we are putting
their personality or our perception of their personality behind everything
that they send. If you and somebody got off a
little bit on the wrong foot last time you hung out,
and now you're following up with texts, they're putting that

(13:07):
lens on all of that text of the last time
they felt about you. So that's another reason why a
text isn't very effective, or even social media messaging isn't
very effective in these professional situations.

Speaker 3 (13:23):
Is that why before you send me a text, it's
always a picture of you and your ice tub, so
I know you're just you're cool and calm.

Speaker 2 (13:32):
This is this is my mindset, right this is my
mood right now. Now I'm going to communicate. Yeah, that's
probably how you avoid it.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
If something doesn't work out, or the conversation doesn't go
the way you wanted to and you didn't exit gracefully,
something's you. You could hide that ego, you could put
it away and actually probably have more of an ego
by actually just handling it like an adult and say
thanks for the opportunity. This isn't right, but I wish

(13:59):
you the best. I don't think this is the right
fit for us, but I appreciate the invite. So I
think coming at any conversation with family, friends, business from
that angle will always set you up for opportunities in
the future to go your way. And you're going to

(14:20):
run into these musicians at venues all over the city,
all over the country, so might as well just keep
your head up and handle things like an adult, because
common mistakes that you should avoid is arguing in group
chats or public threads, bad mouthing collaborators or venues on

(14:41):
social media. I see that a lot have no idea
why any musician would start bad mouthing other venues. If
you think you're protecting your peers, you're not protecting your
peers by doing it that way. And then, you know,
stop ghosting. After you receive an offer or payment or
an opportunity, show up, let them know how you feel

(15:01):
if this is going to work or if this isn't
going to go, But don't ghost anyone during these conversations
when you're trying to be a pro You.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Know, I read a lot of stuff about neurological effects,
and there was an article talking about how it's now
been proven. And this wasn't that it was recently or anything.
But I don't know that common of knowledge that when
you bad mouth anybody else or anybody that's being gossipy,

(15:29):
there's an actual physical effect that the person you're telling
that to actually holds that image about you. And that's
the strangest thing because what it ends up doing is
the more that you become the gossiper about bad things
about other people. Whatever it is that you're saying about
as other people, the person that you're telling it to
actually starts to hold those views about you. And it's neurological.

(15:50):
It's not that we're like emotionally reacting on the surface
level where it's subconscious that that happens. So you got
to watch out that you don't want to be known
as the gossiper who's actually doing the things that you're
complaining about other people doing.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Absolutely, and if you're building relationships with new people, how
are they going to think you're talking about them behind
they're back. Professionalism isn't a vibe, it's a practice. So
show up, be prepared, communicate with respect, handle disappointment with maturity.
If people enjoy working with you, they'll keep calling you.
And that's even when others might be more talented.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
And so number three on our list of best practices
is respond promptly, which goes directly after Once you start
getting these opportunities, you have to continue to maintain that
image and your professionalism in order for them to keep
flowing towards you. Time is money in music. Late replies
can cost you a gig that happens all the time

(16:46):
if you aren't responding quickly, can also lose opportunities in
sink because sinc happens even faster than a gig. Opportunities
these days, and so those being promptly responded to can
make the difference between whether you can take those opportunities
or they just get washed away. People's i'm sure are
the same way that they're not going to sit around
waiting for you to reply to them when they reach out.

(17:08):
So I think in almost every circumstance, we want to
be in a place where we can respond within I say,
twenty four hours.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
Vince was even talking about this with Engineering last week
when he said, you know, you need to be skilled
and fast at what you do. But there's other things
in music that speed signals professionalism. Opportunities move fast, so
gigs get booked fast, songs get placed fast, budgets get
spent fast. A slower pie often means you know you

(17:39):
have a miss chance and an opportunity. I remember when,
again just bringing back to the corporate world, when I
first started working with these guys, that I would get
a text for a gig and I'd have to excuse
myself and they'd be like, can't that wait? No, no,
it can't wait, because I know there's ten other musicians
behind me wanting to gig. So if I'm not fast

(18:02):
on this, I might lose it. And for no other
reason than just hey, I just didn't respond.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Quick responses show that you're organized too, and that you're serious.
People really really appreciate that in the music business. I
actually people will actually say it all the time. I
get a lot of reflection from people about, oh, I
appreciate how quickly you got that done. I appreciate how
quickly you got back to me. They really do notice,
and I do think it makes a big difference in

(18:29):
your reputation.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
It doesn't even have to be the answer they're looking for, right,
so you can just acknowledge that you received it. Can
I give you? Can you give me twelve hours to
reply to this? Can you give me twenty four hours?
So then at least they know, and if there's other
people waiting in the wings, they can say, hey, I
have a hold on this. But it's nice to have
a response rather than nothing at all.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
And it also helps you know that you've started that
communication so that if you do need time to get
something together, which does happen sometimes like oh I would
love that opportunity. I just need a day to be
able to get those files, those stems bounced so that
they're ready for you, just by saying that they're like, Okay,
they got my request, they're interested. I can expect another

(19:12):
request or response in twenty four hours or whatever it
is that you set them up with those clear expectations
with email.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
If you don't have a Chris Web in your life,
to shame you for having a full inbox and not
be as AI driven as Chris, as he doesn't even
need aid to clean out his inbox. I'm in there
sometimes and I just I'm like, there's nothing, there's nothing
that's not responding to in here. But you can use

(19:41):
email filters, labels for like urgent booking. These are the
collabs I'm working for. You can even have auto replies
if you don't think you can get back that day. Hey,
thanks for reaching out. I'm on tour. I'm on the
road today. I'll get back to you within twenty four hours.
And now you can even now have templates and replies.
Here's my ePK ready to go, here's my availability, get

(20:05):
back to you in twenty four hours.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
And that all takes that prep work and you learn
those things as you go, like knowing withever whatever, your
little corner of this industry is. Knowing what things need
to be at the ready is a part of your
development in professionalism, so that once you do get those requests,
those things, like you said, are ready to go, and
that it can be so much less stressful if you've
just got those things ready to go and you know

(20:29):
that they're up to date, that they you know, their
best pictures, that you have one for each of the
kind of types of requests that you get. All that
kind of stuff really goes a long way.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
What folder do you put your ice bath pictures OnlyFans Fans.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Number four on our list is use the right channels.
This is important because things get lost, things get overlooked
when you send one hundred different gifts and short memes
of cats and then in there somewhere you were like, Oh,

(21:05):
are you available, blah blah blah to do blah blah blah.
It's just gonna get lost. This just happened recently with
my brother. My brother was coming back into the country.
He lives out of the country, and he wanted to
get together and he had scent it somewhere in the
mix of all these stupid memes that we send each other,
and then was mad at me for not responding, And

(21:25):
I really didn't know that it had been put in there.
It just got washed through because I don't use that
stuff as communication for any actual plans or any of that.
And I think everyone should be in that habit of
you shouldn't get used to using Messenger or Instagram dms
as a way of communicating anything that's about scheduling, anything
that's about professional planning for your business. It shouldn't be

(21:47):
done in there. It should be done in the correct channels.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Or something you want a paper trail for because text
is not great for that either.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
And nor should it. Does anybody like being canceled down
their gig via group text?

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Has that ever happened to you?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
I'm not sure about it.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
It doesn't sound like.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
It everything works out. I'm not saying it didn't, but
I am saying that that it's unprofessional. It felt unprofessional. Yeah, well,
it's like what what?

Speaker 3 (22:17):
What's in that case too? Because knowing the person who
did that, we have formed a bond and a connection
and a friendship over the years. So even then you,
although for that person, might feel like, oh, no problem,
I can do a group text, but sometimes you expect
even more professionalism sometimes when it happens with friends.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
So email's best. Email is always going to be best
and that isn't going to change anytime soon. Or the
second best way to do it is direct communication with contracts,
because the problem with direct communication is there's no real
record of it. You're not recording your vocal your conversations. Right,
email still is the best method of communication.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
You can always ask too, thanks for connecting with me.
What is the best email to send this to you at?
If that's the way you prefer or what's the best
way to move forward communicating on this. Let's move to
email so we can track everything. Let's use a shared
document so we can track this collab and do dates
and anything else you might need.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
I think sometimes people feel like there's too many options
on how to do that stuff now, Like what app
should I we be using for our business? You know,
what tools should we be using? And the answer is
just Google everything. Google, just go that direction. Look just
making it easier for you. It's the best of the
options and it's still mostly free, and it works with

(23:46):
everything else is the way to go. So I'm just
simplifying that for you. And here comes the hate mail
about people that use Outlook instead. Next one on our list,
number five of best practices is know your audience, tailor
your communication based on who you are speaking to. I
think this one's an easy example in the sense that

(24:07):
we wouldn't be getting on stage in front of a
family audience and telling the dirty jokes, right, That's an
easy one. But obviously when we're talking to different people.
Everyone has different experiences in life, they're in a different
walk of life, they have different cultural backgrounds, different beliefs,
different values. You need to be sensitive to those things,
whether you agree with how they think or not. It's

(24:29):
not a part. Professionalism is above that, right, and if
they're below it, then they're not being professional. But it
doesn't mean that you need to go down there too, right,
So tailor your communication based on who you're speaking to.
This can also work in the context of are you
talking to an A and R rep right. Part of
that is not ever seeming too desperate. I don't know
how else to say that, but being confident in yourself,

(24:51):
being confident in what you have to offer who you
are as an artist is a part of representing yourself
well in your communication because it's obvious when someone isn't
confident because they're gonna talk with the fast. They're gonna
talk really fast, they're gonna be like this, they're gonna
say wait wit, they're gonna start asking for things all
the time. Again on professional right, anytime I go to
these sink conferences and people come in and their heart

(25:14):
is on their sleeve, you know they really want this,
but they feel so desperate at the same time, like
as soon as they think someone's going to be able
to give them that magic opportunity, that's going to shoot
them to the top. They leach on to them and
they just start asking for things and it's very unprofessional,
but it's it's it's a naivete, right. They aren't trying
to be rude. They just want it so bad that

(25:35):
they haven't quite gotten that handle on balancing your professionalism
and understanding how that etiquette works with that audience.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Recently, I reached out to a friend that opened a
new venue in Rockford, beautiful place, and I thought, when
I write this email, I was just gonna reach out
as a friend saying, Hey, I'm in this town. Whatever
does it state work? Instead of like, hello this guy

(26:03):
and team, my name is Dave Tamkin. I have built
a reputation in this city, and went on and on.
He wrote back August first works.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
That was it.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
And then I saw him the next weekend at this
festival he was playing, and I was like, so good
to see you. He's like, how do you like that email? Easy? Right,
It's easy and make it easy. And I was like, yes,
you made it so easy. So it was weird scene.
From my side of things, how I wanted to be professional.
I wanted to be concise, have results focused. This is

(26:36):
who I can bring to the gig. This is my bio,
these are the videos I want. He knows all these things,
but I wanted to approach it professionally, and the way
he was looking at back was like, how can I
be as concise to make sure that you get the information?
August first works great? So I mean include all those
things with booking venues, your ePK, your links, your availability,

(26:59):
no matter who is, just be precise on it.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Number six center of this is practice active listening.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
Do you hear that it's silence? This is something I
definitely need to work on.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
I wasn't gonna say silence, it's us listening.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Yeah, well, I mean my puns get so bad sometimes
as soon as it comes across when I'm talking to
someone and I find that that could be funny, I
it's it's it could get sad. I think it's a
something that happens with me where I just am maybe
nervous in a new situation, or I want to show

(27:34):
that I'm lighthearted and a huh, this is funny. But
really I stop listening as soon as I hear that pun,
and it is something that I have to work on
because I'm waiting for them to stop talking so I
could try to make them laugh, and then they're pretty
much like, I'm done with this conversation because I can't
get anywhere with you.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Well, there's delicate balance there between actually actively listening and
being in your personality that you want to you want
to convey. We don't just wait to talk though. We
hear people out right. We want to look at what
they're trying to say in their music and their creativity
and the business. You know, egos will collide. People have

(28:14):
their own personality and their own charisma about themselves, and
sometimes they will not connect what they will rub wrong
with you, right, they are going to be see right there,
you thought of something and now you're not listening the
rest of this time. Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (28:28):
No, I'm okay.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
As soon as I said rub wrong, you're like, oh,
I can't wait for him to shut up so I
can throw.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
This one out there, not on this podcast.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Preventing conflict is a part of that active listening because
you can hear their concerns right in sales. We used
to do this all the time, where you're listening for
their objectives, right, you're listening for their pain points, the
things that are stopping them from saying yes, and we're
almost always doing that. It doesn't need to be as
deliberate as a sale, but it can be in the

(29:00):
sense that you're listening to find out what objectives you
need to help address in order to make them feel
confident in whatever this context is that you're discussing. Confirming
that you understand things by repeating them is another way
of validating what other people are saying and that you
are listening. So if someone else is saying something about
next Friday and how they're going to do that, you

(29:21):
repeat back a couple facts about what they just said.
It validates what they said, and it also acknowledges that
you are a good active listener.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Something for a trigger to put yourself in a mindset
for that is put the phone down. Don't put it
down in front of you with the screen up or
even the screen down. Put it in your pocket or
in your bag when you're going to be talking business
so they know that they have your full attention. Don't
multitask while you're doing it. These are all problems that

(29:50):
I have had that I've had to work on, and
I'm telling you that phone thing has really helped a
lot that I'm able to put that away so I
can be present, And like you said, saying it back
is something that also helped me get out of my
pun thing because the more I'm listening, the more I
can say, this is what you want from me, so
I can deliver the goods I guess I should say,

(30:12):
and then ask follow up questions how they feel about
what this project is going to be? What do they
How else can I make your day easier? Is another
thing that I say that I can kind of change
the focus from my crazy brain to make sure I deliver.

Speaker 2 (30:27):
Another thing that I think is a good practice within
active listening is eye contact. I think really people feel
validated when you're looking at them and some people and
I think I struggled with this for a while too,
because the eyes are the is the window to the soul, right,
and the moment that you start looking at somebody else
in their eyes, you can get distracted by other senses

(30:50):
that you start picking up on. Oh they got distracted
that second there. Oh they you know, they feel a
little fear about this. Oh you know, Oh they're looking
at me about something that I have on my face.
You know, whatever it is, like you all of a
sudden there's so much more communication going on when you're
making eye contact, and in some ways you're like trying
to turn off the other senses and focus on their words,

(31:12):
but make eye contact. So I think it takes them
getting used to and it's okay to look away every
once in a while just to reset and then come back.
But it's an important part of good communication is making
icon So.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Many jokes, I didn't hear a word you said. Number seven.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Number seven is follow up and follow through.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
In music, everyone's busy And I hate this excuse too
when I hear it, because I'm busy too, So don't
tell me you're busy. I'm busy. Everyone's busy, everyone's distracted.
But once you could manage these things that we're going
through and follow up with your shows and the way
you communicate and be there for people, that's when they

(31:54):
know you're serious. Follow Through shows that you're trustworthy. If
you want people to who invest in you, you need
to They need to see that you're investing in them
and also that you're investing in yourself. And that's something
that a loop that keeps on giving back and taking
and giving back to the people that you surround yourself
with and you don't end up leaving people hanging. So

(32:16):
I think this is number seven is a favorite of mine.
Follow up and follow through.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
One way that I do that consistently is sending emails
to confirm things as they've come up, as they get close.
Ever with events, you know, like I'm actually playing a
wedding at Red Rocks on Saturday, and I always do
this with weddings. I've already sent them all the lyrics
of the parts of the songs that I'm going to
sing during their ceremony, because it used to be that

(32:44):
like I didn't communicate that, and it happened once where
I played the song and they were like, why did
you play that part of the song And I was like, well,
that's that was the part of the song that was
the most loving. I thought that that would make the
most sense, but I didn't follow through with making sure
that they agreed with me, and they had another verse
of that song that was important to them for another reason,

(33:04):
which I would never have picked. So now I always
send all the lyrics of those parts of the songs
that I'm going to sing, just to get approval and
to make sure that everyone knows it's the right song,
because that's also what happened once before. They gave me
the song and the version that they wanted was by
somebody else. It wasn't the original, but nobody told me that,
and so it ended up I played the wrong version

(33:27):
of the song. During their first dance. They kept looking
at me. I was like, what's going on here? Giving
me the eye? Yeah, I thought you wanted the Metallica version. Yeah.
So anyways, sending those recaps, sending those summarizations of what's
expected and what's happening, and just again touching base right
before the event or when whatever it is is occurring.

(33:50):
It just gives everybody peace of mind and it makes
a lots It takes the likelihood of anything going wrong
down to a much lower percentage.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
I think what you're saying too is sending that information
up it had sets them up for success. Hey, just
set the stems. Let me know if everything came out clean,
so then you have some feedback. You're following up with
a question that's not something I used still learn in
sales as well. Just checking in anything else you need
for me before I close this project up. Pros don't

(34:19):
just make good impressions, they follow up, fall through and
close that loop. If people know they can count on
you to finish what you start, they're going to invite
you to handle bigger and higher stake gigs and opportunities
because they know that they could trust you.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Well. That kind of leads into the next next one.
Number eight is be honest and transparent. Trust moves faster
than talent, especially in the world of reputation in business,
a business that's built on relationships, being upfront, and especially
when things go wrong, Earning that respect is about finding
ways to solve those problems without creating new ones. Right,

(34:56):
and things that happen, whether it's delays or issues that
come up, there's always a way to solve them by
being honest and transparent without letting your ego or your
emotions take over in those situations.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Especially with money. And I know I've told this story
quite a bit on this podcast, but I learned at
a very young age. If I hired a friend of
mine not thinking I was hiring them because I thought, hey,
I got a gig for us. You know, it'll pay
us this much, and then that money falling through where
either the venue or you know, whoever didn't pay. My

(35:36):
friend was like, well, I didn't book this. You did.
So this is how I make my living. I booked
it through you, and at that time I didn't understand it.
I was young and dumb, and I just like we're saying,
we had a different relationship with the connections of our friends.
But one thing over the years I have learned is
you promise someone something in business, and in money, you

(36:00):
pay them. That's it. No matter what happens. You could
be honest and transparent and let them know you didn't
get paid, but here's what I promised you, or you
can just take that right out of the gates altogether.
You can handle your business and the only thing they
need to see is that you follow through with what
you promise them. And that's a lesson that I think

(36:21):
I've brought over to multiple business aspects to the companies
I've had over the years.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Well, and there's always new situations coming up where you
have to be clear and professional in discussing things like money.
I think a lot of times when you start negotiating,
we start getting really uncomfortable, and then we just start
getting a little sensitive because we're uncomfortable, and so all
of that leads to them being less communicative and a

(36:47):
little bit more ego driven in our responses. So this,
I think is one of those things that takes It
takes a little time for a lot of us to
kind of get comfortable in the in the circumstances of negotiation,
things like when someone offers you a rate that's below
what you're used to, but you really want the gig.
Maybe there's or the event or the opportunity for whatever
the thing is, it's worth it for you. You can say

(37:10):
something like this is outside of my usual rate, but
I'm open to working something out with you. Let's talk
about the options. Just because then you're making clear that
you are usually getting paid more than that opportunity is
bringing you, but you value the opportunity. It just takes
away that that intensity about oh this doesn't feel fair anymore,

(37:33):
because now we're all clear that this is something that
you want to take despite the fact that the rate
might be lower, And.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
If you take the gig and don't have that conversation,
then shut the hell up about it. When you get
paid what the person told you that they were going
to pay you.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Right, But that the problem is that people like hold
that in the whole time and it becomes part of
the performance. They're like, this isn't I'm not happy, you know, And.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
I am completely with you on that. I'm just saying,
if you don't, if you make the mistake not to
what you just said, just acknowledge the fact that it
was on you that took the gig too. I'm just
kind of playing Devil's advocate for don't you know have
that animosity towards the person you took the gig when
it is lower than what you normally get paid and

(38:17):
you didn't tell them that, and you didn't explain those things,
you know, because I think in those situations, and again
I've been there where it's easier always to blame someone else,
and you have to take those responsibilities on yourself. If
you can't be verbal and in a way stick up
for yourself or at least acknowledge the fact that you

(38:38):
might get paid more somewhere else, but you really like
this project and can't wait to do it, then it's
on you for not doing those things.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Yeah, I think I learned that liston the hard way.
One time, you know, somebody was asking me to come
plain an event. It was a fundraiser. But I let
my ego get involved when he told me what the
rate was and I told him I don't even come
out of my house for that, which was such a
smart ass remark.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
And it's not what you told me. You said, you
don't even get out of bed for that.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
But and the way I was being honest, like I
would never take a gig for that. But that was
not effective communication, you know.

Speaker 3 (39:14):
Good story.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
It was an ego driven response because I was in
a mood, and that was gonna be the thing I
was gonna say about this is when we're we have
to make sure we're in the right mindset when we
make this communicative. Sometimes when someone says something to me
or emails me something that I don't it doesn't make
me feel good, makes me happy, doesn't make me happy,
it makes me upset. I will take a certain amount
of time before I respond, just for the sake of

(39:39):
letting go of that emotion. So it's not in my response,
you know. And that's something I've learned over the years,
is like it's better to take a little time then
respond right away in those circumstances, because you'll respond with
a more even keeled head. And you'll actually let go
of that whatever that negative negativity before you've made that response,

(40:00):
and it will help solve the problem. Number nine on
our list is respect, cultural and industry diversity. We put
these on here because the music business is global and
multi genre and deeply collaborative. If you don't respect the
cultural or creative or communicative differences within it, you're gonna

(40:21):
hit You're limiting how much you can reach, and you're
going to lose opportunities before they even begin. Respect is
about building bridges, and ignorance always burns them down right
away quickly. The music business is definitely global, and right
now our listenership is now global, and I love that
so much. It means so much to me. I love

(40:43):
that this information is useful enough to everyone no matter
where they are, because there's so much of it that
resonates no matter what and how we conduct our business
right Certainly, communication is one of those things. As soon
as you feel like you've been insulted, it's really hard
to let that go, you know, So think about how
that must feel to someone else when you just throw

(41:04):
out something that is just completely not respecting their cultural
or their even they're just their choices. Even if it's
just the way that they're throwing their you know, outfit
on for the stage and you've got a smart ass
something in there, you know immediately you've destroyed a relationship
because it's hard for them to let that go.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
I think with collaborating with people too, it's so easy
to feel disrespected if you're not getting the credit for
something that you might have put your heart and soul
in many hours of your time in. So songwriters, producers, engineers,
guitar players, drummers always have clarity who did what and

(41:48):
how they should be credited for any piece of work.
But like you said on stage, celebrate everybody on that
stage as much as you can because you're sharing it
together and it's all it's nice to feel appreciated.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
But as I show the other night, where at the
end of the show, they had their crew come up
and play their last song for them, and I thought
that was so cool because it's a respect thing. You know,
they knew that their crew is full of talented artists
that are just doing this job because they're good at
that too. You know, they're a part of their journey,
and that was such a respectful way to pull like
that that acknowledgement on is let the crew come up

(42:24):
and play the last song.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I think art also shows itself in many different ways,
and someone who does light, or does some or does
sound is also an artist. And they're showing up just
the way you are to that gig. They're there to
make you sound the best that you could possibly sound,
so treat them as such. Even the person who is,
you know, signing the paperwork at the end of the

(42:46):
night and opens and closes the curtain, that's their job.
They showed up there, they want to do something, So
don't assume that someone's status or skill is based on
something greater or less than the way you perceive yourself.
They're all there to share the evening and the art together.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
And that brings us to number ten and our final
of these best practices, which is protect your intellectual property.
Your music is your business. If you don't protect your work,
your songs, your recordings, your beats, your ideas, your building
on shaky ground and in today's fast moving, content heavy world,

(43:29):
assuming everyone's cool is not a good plan. The pros
protect themselves before things go sideways, things like don't share
unreleased work without having an NBA when necessary, making sure
that you have saved copies to prove that you've created
things and that you have them copyrighted at least at

(43:50):
some level before they've gotten out into the world. There
is a really critical part of protecting yourself.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
Always clarify ownership of the splits and the usage writes
early the conversation. If you assumed everything was fifty to
fifty and they did not, you're in a bunch of
hell later trying to figure out splits.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
And that can be such a simple solved problem because
you just need I have a sheet. I can share
it with anybody if you ever want it. It's just
a simple documentation that just says your names and basic
information about the fact that it's split and how it's split,
and you both sign it. You should just do that
at the beginning of a song, right, you just do it.
It's just a part of the process. It makes that
so non issue.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Can we give that sheet away?

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Yeah, let's put this. I'll do a post on a
recap of this podcast, so then everyone can just go
to this podcast or go to the show notes on
it under tips, and then we'll have a link out
where you can grab Chris's split sheet.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Great, just protected yourself in a way that maybe we
weren't doing before.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
I mean, it's just a sheet you never knew about.
You know, sometimes you just have to put a sheet
in front of someone else, you know, just gonna just
split your sheet.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Up, give my sheet to everyone else. Yeah, all right,
So let's talk about how we we just give a
couple examples that maybe didn't get covered there about how
to handle certain circumstances, right, because these come up a
lot with students that when we're talking about like what's
the best practice in responses and how long to wait
and how to word things. So let's just give some

(45:24):
examples that maybe we didn't cover.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Something we didn't cover working with a photographer or videographer,
how would you go about that?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
So they're an artist to you, So we're going to
go at the approach that you are working with somebody
that inspires you. Right, if you don't inspire you, if I
shouldn't be working with them. It's not about the money, right,
It's about whether or not you have a vision that
you both understand. And so that's where I always say
we start is, let's let's identify in a line on
this vision, this identity that we're creating, and what are

(45:56):
the deliverables that are going to come out of this?
Things that I recommend with that kind of stuff, or
to share mood boards and sample images maybe examples that
other people have done that you really like help them
identify your brand. Then that can come down to every
part of who you are, like with the way you
dress and the way that you want your color scheme
to be, like all those things. They're gonna know those things,

(46:18):
but they're gonna go at it the way they think
they want to do it unless you communicate with them
clearly about how you see it. And then clarification on
the ownership, who can post what and when? And how
do you make sure that everyone gets recognized when things
get released? Those are really important conversations to have.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
Would I show my Pinterest tattoo board in this conversation?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Would you recommend that if you're gonna make your video
about tattoos the lack.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Of tattoos I have, but I want I see, I
see if you're going with this.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
It's gonna be on. You're gonna put them on your tombstone.
Someday tombstone is gonna be all tatted up with the
stuff you never did.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
I know, better get on it. Thanks us bringing this
podcast down.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Here's what I would say though, to somebody, is to say,
I'd love to mix. I'd love a mix of your
editorial and candid behind the scenes shots for my press
and social you know, social posts. That would be a
really useful thing. Can you confirm how many edits, how
many edited photos are included in the timeline, and how
much you're gonna how you're gonna be able to deliver
those and when right. Those are the kind of things

(47:24):
you just want to be specific, like we said at
the beginning, and make sure that everyone is clear on
those expectations, because a lot of times when you work
with these guys, they're real busy and they're gonna end
up getting it put into the timeline based on importance.
So if you don't set an expectation in some ways
a deadline, then it's going to be harder for that
to follow through. Almost every time I swear that it's

(47:44):
always going to take longer if you don't set that deadline.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
One thing that happened this week was my good friend
Brian sansm his son had his first band practice, and
he is twelve years old and he plays like a
nineteen twenty one jazz monster. He's awesome, and he has
these two kids sitting next to him, and I just
started thinking about, like how I would redo collaborating with

(48:09):
other artists at the beginning of that. And it's so
different back then, when it's you know, just the world
is your oyster and you're like, oh, I can't wait
to play the Pepsi Center one day and all those things.
But as we get older, you have to pay attention
to make sure you're building chemistry with these musicians that
you're going to spend at least seventy five percent of

(48:30):
the time hanging out with and twenty five percent playing
music with. But what makes that easier is learn how
to set expectations and also define roles with your friends
when it comes to being in a band together, talk
about things like we brought up songwriting, credits, distribution, how
are you going to promote the record? Who's going to
do what? I mean? There's so many different aspects than

(48:51):
it is when it's so innocent when you're twelve and
just getting in a room to play music with the
group people to record it for people to hear here,
which is the foundation of why all of us show
up to the world anyway as a musician. So I
think the better you can communicate those things, the better

(49:12):
and easier your life will be. With the musicians you
have an honor of sharing a room with.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
So you might say something like, I'm really excited to
work together with my fellow twelve year olds. We should
all split this song about roadblocks and blowing everything up
fifty to fifty, right, I.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Would agree, because if your parents come in and you're
ratting out the other twelve year olds, that's it's not cool,
not cool. You know, you gotta go. You gotta have
to be grounded just as long as they are to
practice Tom Sawyer and YYZ until your fingers bleed.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
I'm glad those songs still have a place.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
Another place that comes up a lot. Another conversation that
I have often with students is about pitching for labels
in our and this also kind of applies to SYNC
when you submit stuff. These are communicative expectations within this
specific area of the business. Never ever, ever, ever send
an attachment with your email. Do not attach your songs

(50:11):
to the email. Again, I'll say this again because it's
worth repeating. Do not send an attachment of your song
in your email. They will not ever respond to you
and probably never will want to talk to you again
because sometimes it shuts down their entire system. It's a
very bizarre reaction, but it is a thing that they
talk about all the time. So if you are going

(50:31):
to send your initial email, or you're going to send
your songs to somebody as an n R or a
label or in the sync world, you have to create
something that holds the music and then can share the link, right,
So that can be something like Dropbox. Once you find
an app or a program that you like best to

(50:53):
house your music, then you attach it on a private
link that they can Then you can make these into
great playlist so that it's very specific and curated to
that specific person you're sending this to. Then you might
send that with a short email that might say something like, Hey,
my name is blah blah blah. I'm an artist and
I'm a bilingual pop artist from Miami blending reggaeton with synthpop.

(51:17):
Just an example, my latest release has fifty thousand streams
organically in the last two weeks. That would be excellent.
Here's a link to my unreleased EP. I'd love to
get your thoughts or I noticed that you were If
it was for sync, you might say something I noticed
the last couple episodes that you did on this X,
Y and Z show you used bands like Blank and

(51:40):
Blank or artists like Blank and Blank. I am a
great fit for you. Can't wait to hear your thoughts
something like that. It's short, it's concise. It shows them
how you they are going to be. You're going to
help them. It shows you how they need you, which
is what you're really trying to do in these emails
is how quickly can I show them that I'm here
to help them because they're always in a very fast

(52:01):
paced world, in the sink world in particular, and they're
looking for stuff that needed yesterday. You know that's how
they say it. So once you've shown that, then you
just wait, right because they get so many emails. Their
inboxism is always full. It's ridiculous and it would give
me so much anxiety, as you know who my personality is.
But then if you haven't heard, I usually say within

(52:23):
one week, I would say for sinc I would then
follow up and say, hey, just put this at the
top of your inbox. Here's the link again. Can't wait
to hear what your thoughts are or something something simple.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
One week for sink, one week for sink.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
And then I would do it again a week later,
and I would do it again one more week later.
I'd probably send three emails again, no ego involved. You
have to remember that they're super busy. It is not personal,
and as soon as we let our emotions guide our
communicative efforts in a professional email, it gets diluted in
whatever negativity we're feeling. So it's really important that you

(52:57):
remember it isn't personal, it is business.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Well, I think the LA that's great to say for
maybe the last conversation we can go through before we
go on to action steps. But managing conflict, I think
a lot of it happens with creative differences and just
conflicts in general when you take it personal, and it
doesn't always have to be that way. Be honest but respectful,

(53:22):
Avoid blaming the other person because they're coming from a
different point of view that you might be coming from
and not even realize you're feeling the way you feel,
Nor can they even handle a situation if they don't
even know it's a situation. So give them that, because
you can't fix the things that you don't know aren't broke. Say,
I respect your vision, but I'm feeling that what we're

(53:44):
doing now doesn't match the vibe that we agreed upon.
Can we visit the original idea and see what compromises
we can make, Whether it be because they're playing only
for money, because you're playing because you just want to
be artistically present and don't care about the money. Everyone
has a different reason. Some people want to show up

(54:06):
just so they can solo the whole time on stage,
but everyone has a different reason for being there, and
I think putting yourself in someone else's shoes first is
a great way of managing that conflict.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Okay, so for your action step this week, what I'd
like you to do is to pick the one of
these top ten best practices that you need or think
that would be most effective in where you are in business.
I'm just gonna list them real quick so that you
can kind of decide which area may be the best
fit for you. Again. Number one was to be clear
and direct. Number two maintain professional at all times. Number

(54:41):
three respond I know so many people in my head
that just popped up and said, Oh, that's the one.
Number three, respond promptly. Number four. Use the right channels
when communicating. Number five. Know your audience. Number six, practice
active listening number seven. Number six, number seven, follow up

(55:08):
and follow through. Number eight, Be honest and transparent. Number
nine respect cultural and industry diversity, and finally, number ten,
protect your intellectual property. Our goal here is that one
of those areas needs your help, needs your attention, needs
your efforts to improve on. And when you do one
thing at a time, you see results. So just pick

(55:31):
the one that you think is going to best improve
your situation and practice what we preach. We know your
time is valuable. We appreciate you spending this time with
us and being a part of this community. It's our
hope that you feel that sense of community here at
musicians tip Jar and that will help spread the word
to make us all stronger. If you'd like to get
a hold of us, what's the best way to do that?

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Send us an email at musicians tipjar at gmail, at
musicians tiptar dot com, where you can check out all
the resources and discounts we have collected just for you
and check out all our episodes now on the YouTube
channel where you can like that button or subscribe. We
really appreciate it so we can help keep you up
on the financial side of your music business.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
As always, thank you for joining us. Remember there is
already enough for everyone, you just need to know how
to get it. Until next time on behalf of Dave
Tamkin and myself Chris Webb, stay happy, healthy, and wealthy.
Successful artists are those who can communicate clearly and authentically,
both in music and in business. This is musicians Tip.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Jary, Somebody, Somebody.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}132. 10 Ways to Communicate Like a Pro in the Music Industry

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

132. 10 Ways to Communicate Like a Pro in the Music Industry

On Purpose with Jay Shetty