135. Taking the Luck Out of Growing Your Social Channels (with Johnny Fiacconi of The Dreamboats)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the show that explores the methods and strategies
on rocking the financial side of your music business. With
over forty years combined experience, here are your hosts, Chris
Webb and Dave Tamkin.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Musicians Tip Job, where we talk about musicians
and Mikey where we aim to engage, educate, entertain and repeat.
I'm Chris Webb, joined by my co host who loves
to rally, lather, rinse and repeat, Dave Tampkin.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Thanks for having back, Chris Wept. That's all. It's good
to be here, clean and fresh for you.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I appreciate since now we have this smell division thing
and it's really nice of you. Today we share how
to take the luck out.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
Of growing your social channels.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
We discuss creating a roadmap and fill the role that
is being asked of you all with our guests Johnny Fiaconi.
Today's we had two quotes for me today. One is
from John himself. He said, how badly do you want
something to succeed? What are you willing to sacrifice? These

(01:07):
are excellent questions. The other one came from I brought
up Gary Gary V because he brings him up a
couple times in the interview, and we've certainly listened to
him a bunch too. This quote from Gary v says,
the world cares about people, not about your products or services.

Speaker 3 (01:25):
For our nonprofit Spotlight this week, we want to talk
about building a sustainable music community for the long haul,
and that starts with Music Counts. M USI c ounts.
They are the official music education charity for the Juno
Awards and their work is crucial for every artist listening.
Music Counts puts instruments into the hands of kids in
schools and communities across Canada, ensuring that the next generation

(01:48):
has the chance to fall in love with music, become
dedicated fans, and maybe even become the musicians you collaborate
with in the future. A healthy music scene needs a
constant influx of new talent and passionate listeners, exactly what
Music Counts helps create. Support them in an investment in
the very future of the industry we all work in.
Learn more at Musiccounts dot Ca. If you find this

(02:11):
information useful, please rate and subscribe to the podcast and
also slam that like button through on YouTube so we
can help keep you up on the finance side of
your music business.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Johnny Fiaconi is a Canadian content creator, drummer, and entrepreneur
known for his straight talking insights on band life, the
music industry, and creative discipline. His post have amassed millions
of views on all platforms. As a drummer and the
co founder of The dream Boats, which is a rock
and roll band bringing the energy of the fifties and
sixties to modern audiences, Johnny has built an international career

(02:42):
blending high impact performance with behind the scenes strategy. Through
his content, he pulls back the curtain on what it
really takes to run a band today, offering no fluff
advice to artists, musicians and creatives chasing big goals. His
mission is to fire people up, lead by exampeople improve
that with the right mindset and work ethic, anything is possible.

(03:06):
Whether you're an artist, a band member, or a creative entrepreneur.
Johnny Fiacconi is someone worth watching and listening to, So
please enjoy the rest of this interview with our special guest,
Johnny Fiacconi.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
Let's go.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Can you tell me some of the key challenges and
rewards of not only now managing this thing that's growing,
but now from moving you're also managing a business. Musically,
you're managing and now as friends too. I mean, you
guys have to have a pretty tight friendship there too,

(03:54):
to have boundaries and work that out. I mean, I
give you a lot of credit for that.

Speaker 5 (04:00):
You hit the nail on the head. It's like moving
down to California has added those exact other layers to
the whole operation. Before it was just about like, you know,
we all live on our own, we all show up
to the gigs, so we're all together. But now it's
just like, you know, people are living their lives and
going through life struggles, and then you know we're all

(04:21):
rolling together in the band van and then you know,
just navigating how to be down in the US full time.
We're on a visa that gets renewed every year. It's like,
how do we get the green cart? We got to
build our profile as entertainers and have show extraordinary ability,
and it's just like all these things are on my
mind and I feel responsible for everyone because we're down

(04:41):
here and I'm steering the ship and it's like if
I'm not doing a good job, or like, you know,
even I tell these guys like if someone brings something
to me is like I'm having a problem with this
or this in the show isn't going well. It's like
I have to dress that, you know, I can't not
address it as like someone trying to lead this thing.
I have to, you know, show that I care about

(05:04):
what people are, what their inputs are in the band.
It's just it's a whole level of just managing human relations,
you know, and immigration stuff, and then the band. It's
just like making sure we're all in a good headspace.
Like you wouldn't believe. When we have a show day,
it's like we have a whole schedule that I print

(05:26):
out of like what time we're packing the trailer, and
that's like always an hour before we leave, and it's
posted up outside of the kitchen, and it's posted up
outside of the garage. And then it's like we all
roll up bed and we meet at the trailer. Then
it's like one guy attaches the trailer, and then it's
like we're all scrambling in the kitchen. We call it
doing the tangle because there's like four of us and
two dogs just bumping around trying to pack our lunches.

(05:48):
We pack our lunches because it's like you don't know.
Some of the city gigs we're doing here, they don't
give you anything, but you play to a big audience,
big opportunity. So there's that, and then it's like fighting
for the shower and it's just and I'm thirty eight,
Like did I think I was gonna be? Like I
didn't want to be living with other grown men at
the age of thirty eight, But you know, we had

(06:09):
to make this sacrifice coming down to California. And that's
another thing too, It's like how badly do you want
something to succeed? What are you willing to sacrifice? And
people have sacrificed a lot of people of families back home,
and we're down here. And for that reason, I think
that's even fueled my fire even more because I'm like

(06:30):
to leave like parents and brother. I don't have any kids,
but just to leave family back in Canada. I feel
like I can't justify being down here in California now
full time. If I'm not working as hard as I
can every day. It just I can't lie to myself.
So even just the fact of moving down here has
caused me to be like I got to do more.

(06:51):
I got to start filling out this daily book, Like
what am I doing here?

Speaker 3 (06:55):
You know? And I have to say, at any age,
what you're doing is impressive because where you're supposed to
be in life is someone's opinion of their construct of
your journey, and you are exactly where you're supposed to
be right now.

Speaker 5 (07:08):
And for what we're trying to do work, yeah, yeah,
for what we're trying to do. And it's like, you know,
I'm and that's the thing. It's like, I don't want
to sound like a hypocrite. I'm talking to people and
I'm I'm on my channel and I'm giving advice and stuff.
And then meanwhile it's like I'm living with, you know,
three other guys in a house and I'm sure like
someone could say, oh, that's not something I'm striving towards.

(07:28):
But the thing is, it's like we had a really
successful band in Canada with the dream bo It's like
we were doing like like performing art centers, theaters, making really
good money. When we came to California. That first year
we came, we moved down here with only four gigs booked.
We packed up everything, came in the trailer. We documented
the whole thing online we only had four gigs booked.

(07:50):
The fourth gig was at a casino, kid you not
the fourth gig. The next day after we played that,
we got a call from the agent saying the casino
to lock us in to a residency once a month.
We had played this casino that lasted two years, which
which was crazy. Now we would have been staying down
here anyways. But it was like we were like busking

(08:11):
on the streets. Like imagine going from playing like like
theaters before COVID. We're doing theaters, playing a full crowds,
making good money, living in our own we have our
own places back at home, you know, and then coming
down here and we're like busking and like I someone
dumped water on us. Like the first week gets all.
We documented this all because we were filming it. It

(08:33):
was like it was crazy. It was like the most humbling.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
The music was so hap Yeah, they were worried about
you guys.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
They were worried. They just wanted to dump water on
us in the desert here. But it was just like
that was like a crazy process. Like I said, in
my mid thirties, I did not think I would be,
you know, making a move like that and taking it
back to like bare bones trying to rebuild down here,
and we're still doing it. The reason we live together
is we played so much it makes sense, like it

(09:01):
makes sense to be together. We wake up every day
on Monday to Friday, if it's not a show day,
we're meeting ten thirty at the table, we have a
band meeting. We're like, what's everyone doing today? What do
we gotta do? What needs to get done? We do
ten thirty to four thirty every day and then it's
like you do whatever you want, you know, live your life.
But we put that time and so we're just very

(09:22):
very proactive down here. And yeah, that just that's the story.
That's the reality of moving to a new place with
your band. And I didn't even expect. I expected it
to be hard. I did not expect it to be
like three and a half years in and I'm still
stressing every day, not stressing. I got it under control,
but still being like, Okay, now, I gotta got to

(09:44):
figure out how I can get everyone green cards, you know,
without getting married, like legitimately due to our talents. That's
like the thing on my mind right now. And how
do we start building credit here? It's like we're buying
our band vehicle in cash like out in the Deser,
or it's because we're from Canada. It's like, you know,
but with each hurdle, we're learning like something extremely extremely

(10:08):
valuable here. And I try to be like, all these,
all these hurdles and there's been some very very difficult
ones out here have all been so crucial to the
journey here. You guys have dealt with any kind of hardships,
it's like there's something, there's something to get out of that.
Even this podcast is like all it takes is one
episode to totally crash on you and they're like, Okay,

(10:31):
we gotta we gotta do something different here, Like maybe
that's happened. I don't know, but look at this now,
it's all set up, it's all dialed in. It's like epic.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well when I think about it, like you, like you said,
like sometimes you're just you're always just about what's next,
you know. That's sort of our programming as entrepreneurs. And
at some point there are plenty of moments where it's
like when I go a week and nobody has emailed
me with new inquiries coming, I'm like, what's going on
like is it me? Like why am I not getting

(11:02):
emails all of a sudden? And then all of a sudden,
I'll get like thirty at once, and I'm like, ah,
I can't handle this, Like I'm getting too many, and
then I'm trying to catch up and it's like, no
matter what, there's always there's always a part of it
that's like feeling overwhelming, whether it's fear or it's overwhelmed
from too much.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
And I just think we're we're always trying.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
To find a balance within all of this, you know,
And and for me, it's always that long vision of
what the heck am I doing this for? Keeps me
in line, keeps me patient with all of it.

Speaker 5 (11:34):
Sure, it's yeah, what's that internal goal? Why are you?
You know, like, why are you guys doing this podcast?
Is like to give back? Do you feel good that
you can have a place to you know, collect ideas
from people who have been doing things so that, like
you said, so you can learn so that others can
learn that you leave this legacy. Like I think something

(11:55):
like that is is great. You know, I don't get
the sense that you guys are just doing this. How
we're doing this and gonna make a ton of cash.
It's like, there's there's passion behind this. Although you could
and you should, you know, if that's what you want.

Speaker 4 (12:07):
It's you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
You know, it's funny you say that, and we should
transition this into talking about your channel because as soon
as we started this, which was during COVID two, my
since then five years, my income itself has gone up
like eight times what it was before. And I think
that that has not been the podcast because I'm not
making We're not really making money. Everything we make from

(12:30):
the podcast goes back to the podcast. Sure, but the
knowledge that I'm getting from talking to people like you
is what I'm implementing and causing I think my personal
income to go up.

Speaker 5 (12:41):
That's so key. Yeah, it's I think people see things
so black and white sometimes and it's just like, nah,
you're missing the point, you know what I mean. It's like,
it's not about it's not about that you got something.
It's not about the destination. It's the journey, you know.
And it's it's so true. It's like, yeah, you must
be a wealth of knowledge, just taking it all in,

(13:02):
you know, both of you guys, and just implementing it,
and when you keep hearing things over and over again,
you talk to you know, a bunch of different people
and there's like a common theme. Sometimes you're just like, okay,
like maybe you know someone's onto something.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
When we first started this and we could start seeing
our lives change and what we just talked about, and
especially just with friends and bandmates. I refer to it
as like when you get a new car in your life,
used or whatever, you start to see, say, you know,
you get a Jeep Renegade, you start to see that
Jeep renegade everywhere on the street. You just start to
see it more because you're paying attention to it more

(13:37):
and it's around you. And that's where I think this
stuffs how both of us individually, because you start to
pay attention and how you make decisions change when you're
talking about it week in and week out, and when
we do have our time off, we're just gearing up
for the next season and what can we do and
what can we learn and who can we talk to?
And when we see someone like yourself that you're learning

(13:58):
something from someone sitting in the front of his car
with the you know, soda slurping on it, you're experiencing
all of this stuff and you're learning from your peers
and just like your mentor and other things. So can
you tell us what your Instagram handles are for these
two new handles that that's the way I found you,
and just talk about how you know you wanted to

(14:20):
start this like tour life and behind the scene moments
that could help get back to other musicians.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
Yeah, well, I mean the handle of the main one
is on Instagram is Johnny Fiaconi. You can look that
up there if anyone hasn't seen it, well, uh sure, yeah,
I appreciate the kind words. The goal with that channel
is like I always wanted to start a channel, and
I was just like, you know, I'm a big I
follow a lot of Gary V stuff. I don't know

(14:47):
if you if you follow Gary V. And all I'm
doing with that channel is just implementing exactly what he
says to do, you know, and is just create value
for people. And I was like, well, how can I
create value? There's so many things I'm in city, even
outside of music, But I was just like, I have
a lot of people will come to me and ask
me questions like prior to the channel, and musician friends,

(15:11):
and I've helped a few friends like they were starting bands,
and we end up having these like two hour long
conversations and once again I'm getting all fired up. I'm like, oh,
you guys could do this and yeah, do this theme.
I'm like, oh, and then you could really like start
putting this on stage. And they do this and they're
like yeah, we and we just have these like cool
little sessions and then you know, it'll turn into them
being like hey, Like I have a one buddy who

(15:32):
will message me and be like, hey, I'm getting offer
for a New Year's gig, Like he messaged me yesterday
and he's like, what do you think about this rate?
And I'm like, well, you know, you could hold off,
but then you run the risk of not having a
New Year's you know. And I'm just already having these
chats with people and I'm always whenever I talk to
someone in the business, I'm always asking them a million questions.

(15:54):
So it's just like this is stuff I've picked up
and I'm regurgitating into the world because I feel like
a there's enough room at the top for everyone, and
be like I wish I could hear people tell me
these things because in the past. You know, when I
started the dream Boats, there's been a few conversations with
musicians who were older and more successful than us that

(16:14):
really I took to heart. Like I remember having a
chat with one guy. There's this band, Tim of the
Sound Parade. They used to do live band karaoke at
a venue and it would be packed, and I remember
after the show, We're like, Tim, you know, how do
you get gigs? And he would just be like, do
you guys have a website. I'm like no, He's like,
get a website. He's like, go look at ours, you know,

(16:35):
do this. He's like, do you have a demo reel?
And we're like no, we should get when he's like,
take a look at ours, just copy this, okay, And
then we did that and then it was like boom.
Then we started having the AMMO to send to people,
and I was just like, thank god I had that
chat with Tim. So that's why, like with this channel,
it was just me giving back and it feels good.

(16:55):
I like giving this information of people, like I'm sure
you guys do too. It's like selfishly, it feels good
to feel like I can help like a next generation
and inspire someone and then when people tell me like, yeah,
my band did this, I'm like, excellent, excellent. I'm glad
it worked, you know, it feels good for me. And

(17:16):
that was just yeah, following the Gary V thing, it's like,
you got to create value. You got to give people
what's gonna And then and then you're doing a disservice
if you're creating value and you're not actively trying to think, well,
now how do I get people to actually watch it?
Then that's that's like another layer. So it's you start looking,
I'm like, okay, I need a little hook the coffee thing.
And then it's like my first couple of videos, there's

(17:38):
a lot of just talking, useless talking at the beginning,
and now it's come to the point where I'm like,
take the sip, say the main point of the whole video,
first line, you know what I mean. It's like you
just learn and you analyze, and then you see what
people are commenting and like I'll do a video on that.
Or you get dms the same DM asking the same question,
like do a video on that. So it just starts,

(18:00):
you know, starts building and building, and it's been cool.
It's been a cool process. I'm so glad I've done
the channel, but to tie it all together just with
the book. It's like I told myself, I started a
January first. I know it sounds like a resolution, but
I just picked January first. It's a good time to start.
And I was like, no matter what, I'm going to

(18:20):
release a video every single day, and I haven't missed
one yet because I added to the schedule. And if
I'm out of town or something, I know I'm going
to be out of town. It's like I got a
bank like five videos and I have to plan that
ahead of time. But it's just like, you know, there's
no excuse if you want to be doing that stuff.
If you're an artist and you're like, I got to
be posting more, it's like, you can be posting more.

(18:42):
I just think in general, it's such an exciting time
to be alive. There's so much noise on social media.
But at the same time, if you really put the
time in and start finding niches and navigating and actively
thinking how can I make this better or get people
to stop scrolling? Like, you don't need the help of
any label or any manager or even ad money. You

(19:05):
don't even need it. It's like you can just build it.
And I've seen this happen two times for myself, once
on my drumming channel. That's Johnny g Whiz, that's my name,
my stage name in the dream Boats. But like, I
started filming my drum content and I posted one blooper
video and it ended up well. I'd been posting for
a while, but the one blooper video I did got

(19:26):
millions of views on YouTube, shorts, on TikTok, and on Instagram.
I was like, Okay, people like the bloopers. Then I'm like,
I gotta I gotta try more ambitious things because if
I throw my sticks and catch them, that's a cool video.
But if I miss them, then I got the blooper video.
So I started doing that and that really built and
I was getting like tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands,

(19:49):
and a couple videos that got millions on all the
platforms and I didn't need any ad budget, I didn't
need any sponsor, like I didn't need anything. And then
starting this channel now it was like I'm just gonna
post every day and just try and make the videos,
you know, better, and it's like it's taken off again
now you could argue that I've just been getting lucky,

(20:09):
but I'm actively trying, and it's just like I'm seeing
the growth, what consistency and just a bit of a
will to like constantly improve and constantly think about the
other person. What are they getting? Do they care? Like
should I be saying hi everyone, my name's Johnny, and
welcome to my car. It's like, no, they don't care.
They've scrolled past it already. Get to the goods, then

(20:31):
get into it. So that's my little rants on social media.
But it's like, you don't need anyone. You can really
do things on your own. It's an exciting time to
be alive. Right now.

Speaker 3 (20:42):
I want to bring up some of your posts. I
did a scan and I got the top ten likes
and shared, but then there's it's just like pick three
of them. But I you know, you were just saying,
you know, the next generation. You know, some of the
stuff that you're saying is inspiring people your age, older,

(21:04):
less experience, more experienced. Sometimes it's hard to just start
a conversation about these things. And I kind of went
into it a little bit when I reached out to you.
But then also I'm like, I gotta gotta take it easier.
But shortly after that, you posted this about breaking out
of the bar scene and different things, and we'll post that.

(21:26):
But I wrote this to some of my friends that
are starting new bands, and I'm also starting a different
project too, and I said, let's let's start here. Let's
not do the things that we've already been doing all
our lives and to get out of that, like say,
that five hundred dollar mark is what you were saying before.
So my friend, after listening to your video, said this,

(21:49):
all bands need a gimmick. Stage uniforms is the lowest
hanging fruit. Antics, jokes, boobs, online presence now outweigh the
actual quality of the music. Music is really just the
glue that holds the business together. It really doesn't even
have to be good music anymore. Images everything, and oh
my god, my ears just started boiling. So I'm like, Okay,

(22:12):
this is text. I don't know if he's smiling or
you know, how he's presenting this, And I wrote back,
I have a different perspective. The music has to be
quality first. Otherwise all the things that you referred to
as gimmick means absolutely nothing to the audience that I know,
I want to connect with music gets you in the door.
The other creative ways to express yourself not only introduce

(22:32):
you to like minded audiences, but keep you connecting with
people that consume music differently than you do. There is
nothing wrong with style, stage, presence, entertainment. It only dilutes
the music if you want it to. And he said, well,
that's subjective, and I said, well, music is subjective. Everything
anyone likes or does not like it subjective. And then
we just go into this awesome conversation that have different

(22:56):
perspectives see each other's point of view because of that
one post that you put on your page. So I
think it really does help open a door where maybe
some people might share the same idea as you do,
but not know how to communicate. But you do it
in such an articulate way that it helps people like
come together and talk about things that they need to
because it's easy just to focus on the music.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
Sure' that's a really interesting debate, and I've gone down
that rabbit hole with people before, even right here in
the house. But that's cool. It sounds like, yeah, a
lot of people share my videos in their group chats
with their bands that seems to be like the thing.
I mean, I see a lot of shares, but I
don't necessarily necessarily see them publicly, and a lot of

(23:40):
people are like I share them in my band group.
I'm probably annoying a lot of people out there. So
I get that I didn't. You know, it's not my fault,
but you know, I think it's like, yeah, saying things
that maybe people want to say, or at least giving
people the amo to be like, see this guy's like
this is what I've been saying, and it's like I
can vouch and I'm really trying to come from like

(24:01):
not opinionated like this, this is the way it is.
And it's like when you're talking about you know, stage
antics or music, it's like it's it's a balancing act.
It's like I talk about things that don't look on
look good on stage, like I've had that you know,
we're in the shorts and blah blah blah. Now the
thing is, it's not black and white. It's just like
for most bands, it's not a good look. For most

(24:22):
bands that want to get to like a higher pay range,
it's not a good look. But then people are like, oh,
what about in the you know, the punk scene, or
like what about in metal, it's like they wear shorts.
I'm like, yeah, cool, it's not like black and white
or even people be like, well so and so aware
is a you know, sports jersey, and I'm like, there's
a balance here. It's like if you're writing original music

(24:42):
and it's like so awesome and it's huge and it's
like it's taking over the world. It's like, yeah, the
human form or like what you're wearing doesn't matter as
much because the music is that much more powerful. But
like sometimes it's like people have antics. Now this is
the other spectrums, Like people have antics and the music sucks,
but the antics are more It's almost more of a
circus at that point. And that can be a thing,

(25:04):
like you could argue like is that music or whatever,
but it's like it's its own thing. It's entertainment value
at that point, you know. But it's like you got
to have something, and bands are finding this balance, but
you can't have none, you know what I mean. It's
just and I think a lot of bands are low
on both of those. They don't have the music dialed in,
sounding good, tight, knowing the endings or and or they

(25:27):
don't have a good look on stage. It looks like
they just rolled rolled out of the couch whatever they
were wearing that day, and it's like something's got to
give here. You got to put some effort into it,
you know, if you want to grow. I think that's
that's pretty crucial.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
Well, that post was key differences between amateur bands and
pro bands, and that has more than nineteen thousand likes
and it was posted May fourteenth, So if anyone's interested
in checking that out. Out of the ones that I
listed here, Chris, any of those cut your eyes that
you know you want to get first hand.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
Johnny, I'm big on the time. I'm big on time management.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
I think that a lot of musicians they don't, whether
it's because they don't have the motivation behind it or
whether they just don't know how to delegate what they
need to get done. But the one about the three
mistakes musicians make with their time, I think is really
what stood out.

Speaker 5 (26:19):
Honestly, I can't even remember why, what I know which
ones are those? I say? The thing is I've that
here's the thing I say, like a lot of the
same themes in different videos, like I'm trying to get
the same messages across in different ways, you know what
I mean. So it's it's like, although I'm posting every day,
it's like there's the same kind of messages that are there.

(26:41):
Like I always talk about, you know, having goals. I
talk about always having band meetings, Like if there's an
issue with someone in the band, it's like that means
you're due for a meeting. I talk about always, yeah,
nailing your parts. I talk about just being intentional with
the things that you're doing, be it playing a part
or the way you dress. So I bring up these themes.

(27:02):
So when it comes to like time management, I can't
even remember the exact video, the exact video we're talking about,
but yeah, I mean that's so important. Like I said,
there's I really feel like there's no excuse if you
want to accomplish something big in music. I feel like
everything's possible. And to be honest, I feel like the

(27:25):
fact that most musicians and entertainers don't do things, don't
take action, that means that by you taking action, you
are already like miles beyond your average band, your average performer.
And when it comes to time management, it's like, yeah,
you can accomplish everything. It's like it's the Gary V thing.

(27:45):
He's just like, Okay, you're working a nine to five,
what are you doing from seven to twelve? You know?
Yeahy what are you doing? You know? And it's like
that's a lot of times having eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve,
that's five hours, even if three of those hours you
were just like putting towards like advancing, going to the
next step, dreaming big and charting a course. It's like,

(28:07):
you have the time. And now I'm not one to
talk because I know, you know, people with families, people
with kids. That's I can only imagine. And I understand
that I'm in a different position by having I can
be fully focused here. But it's like I do believe
that there is time. If you really care, you can
make the time to do stuff, even if it's carving
out a little chunk of one day once a week,

(28:30):
just dedicating it, and it makes you feel good, You
feel a sense of accomplishment. I think people forget that
by like setting a goal and actually like working towards it,
the little winds along the way build confidence. It makes
you feel good, It makes life worth living. Like you're
just like, yeah, I got that gig, like I've been
wanting to do that or like it just it it.

(28:53):
It helps so much by having goals and working towards them.
It's it's the key. That's what I think.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
One of my favorite things to say to my students
at the university when they tell me they didn't have
time to do something.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Yeah, I'm always like, if.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Your cat, because half of them have cats, if your
cat got sick, would you have time taking them to
the emergency room? And they're like, well, yeah sure, And
I was like, so you made time. Yeah, we're just
talking about making time like you know, like there's always
a reason not to, there's always way to make time.

Speaker 5 (29:21):
When you make that time for yourself to actually pursue something,
it just feels good. It doesn't feel good at the
in the moment, but once you get in the routine,
it's like you guys said, it's like I bet you
some days you don't feel like doing this stuff. You know,
we're just like, oh, even Saturday, it's like you probably
want to spend it with your family, which is why
I appreciate you being here. But you're like, ah, we're

(29:41):
doing this, this is our thing, and you know, this
is what we do. And some days you're going to
be really fired up, some days you're not. But it's
like just showing up. It's like going to the gym,
you know, we go, our buddies, a personal trainer, and
it's just we're supposed to be going certain days a week.
Sometimes you show up, like yesterday we had a gig
and I went. I went for twenty five minutes, I
did two exercise. I'm like, I showed up. That's all

(30:03):
it matters. I was here. I was here. That goes
a long way. And I think, just in general, taking
it to a broader thing, just a lot of people
are sometimes unhappy with things or feel like their life
isn't going the way they want it to go. And
I really do think that having some kind of goals,
you need to have some kind of direction, something you
can work towards. A carrot dangling in front of you

(30:27):
and then actually doing putting it into action. It just
creates that confidence, and you carry confidence with you everywhere
you go in life, and confidence translates into happiness eventually
because you feel fulfilled.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
Well your two cents like answered, just like the last
four questions I had for you all in one, which
is pretty awesome because no one wants to hear what
another question of you know, what's the twenty twenty five
Johnny would say to twenty ten. I mean you've said
that throughout this interview. You know how how you would
do things. You know fifteen years ago you would never

(31:05):
have saw yourself right here, But that doesn't matter what
you see yourself in the future, as long as you
have a goal and whatever it takes to get there
and kind of let that journey for me as well,
wouldn't you say?

Speaker 5 (31:15):
Sure? And if I had to say something at twenty ten, Johnny,
I would say to just fully submit and commit to
being the guy in the band, you know what I mean?
It was always like, oh, what does everyone think and whatever?
But I was the one, like early on, really dedicating
the time. And I still wanted opinions, but everyone's weight.

(31:37):
Would you know, everyone would hold weight, and but I
was like the one really into it, be like, no,
we can't do that. Because of this, I would tell
myself to really like dive in headfirst, be the guy
put things into action and just get them done, like
try to try to get rid of all the noise.
I think we would have been a lot further along,
a lot quicker. But not that. Not not that I'm

(32:00):
seeing that we weren't. We had a tight unit of
everyone working daily. But I feel like just admitting that
I'm the guy coming to terms with that and really
just diving into it, That's what I would tell myself
in twenty ten.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Chris, I have one more question, but I wanted to
say it because it's very serious. Do you have any
Before I finished my last question.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
One thing that I think we've learned is that a
lot of musicians they get mad at you for being
so positive all the time. Like here we get we
get I almost as much people upset about how positive
we are that you can make it in this industry
as we do the support from others that are like, yeah,
let's go. Is that something that you experienced through your
channel about giving all this wisdom out?

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Oh yeah, I mean people comment all the time. They're
just like, oh, well what about this, or oh you
clearly have never done this, or you've never worked you know,
you've never played a gig in the metal scene or something.
There's always something. But when I hear that and I
see that, I'm just like, this is an excuse. This
is like, it's not a it's like a loser mentality.

(33:02):
I'm not saying that person is a loser, but that's
what it is. It's like accepting defeat. It's feeling like
it's hopeless, and that's just not a good way to
be progressing your band to thinking that, like there's no hope.
What are you doing? There is hope. People are making
money in music, like I've heard from the Horse's Mouth,

(33:24):
and that's why I want to get more into the
interviews with people in the industry, in the field. But
it's just like people are making good money doing music.
I think there's this vision of like being in music.
It's like you write music and you create the art
and then you get the label and then it's all big.
I'm like, no, there's people making six figures a year
playing cover tunes, you know, of music that they like,

(33:48):
having fun playing with their friends in a band that's
all dialed in touring the world. I'm like, I do that.
Then there's people playing original music that aren't like winning Grammys,
but have a huge following, like thousands of fans, and
it's because they blew up on like TikTok you know,
it's like there's there's so many avenues to do that.
If you're a band out there and you're struggling and

(34:10):
you're not getting shows, it's like, try something different. Look
at a band that's in your scene that has made
it and what did they do. Look at bands or
look at artists right now, like who are the top
people on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube shorts and what
are they doing. It's like you gotta you gotta want
to grow or else you're just hoping things are gonna happen.

(34:31):
And like we said, as our mentor said, hope is
not a strategy. It's a waste of time, it's a
waste of mental energy, and you're only letting yourself down.
So yes, I agree, it's good to be positive about music.
I don't care that I'm positive because that's how it is.
It's like, you can make your own destiny. I believe it.
You just got to work on yourself first. You got

(34:52):
to get the systems in place so that you can
start doing and executing on things and have the goals
and just like that's your roadmap, make it happen. You
can do it, and it's not easy. It's not meant
to be easy. If it was, everyone would be doing it.
Cliche to say, but the business is hard. There are barriers,
There are walls that are put up constantly so that

(35:14):
most people can't get in. You got to figure out
how to go around those walls. That is your job
if you want to grow. I believe that everyone can achieve.
There's room for everyone.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Well, we'll probably we'll probably end it on that one
right there.

Speaker 5 (35:27):
Oh yeah, I wanted to hear the serious question.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Okay, me too, How serious can we get here?

Speaker 5 (35:34):
Why worried?

Speaker 3 (35:35):
Why won't my wife, friends and bandmates let me wear
these glasses out into the public? Like what's so bad
about these? Like I don't get it, Like, hey, they
look cool? Are they?

Speaker 5 (35:52):
Are they cool?

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Their prescription? I think they're cool.

Speaker 5 (35:56):
So if they were prescription them to see, No, I
didn't mean that. I'm like, what I'm getting at is
this are you wearing them? Like are you going for
a look? Because I think if they're prescription, you're going
for a look. I'm like, own it because I'm all
about personal brand. I think that's great. I wish I
had some kind of hair so I could do something cool.
I sip on a mug. I think if you if

(36:19):
you dig those and those those connected with you, that
should like be your thing.

Speaker 3 (36:23):
And that's so nice that you're saying, I am going
to play it for my wife Ann after this. But
that's what And I told Chris beforehand. I made the
same joke to him. I'm like, what do you think?
And that's why I got him because I need I
need glasses on stage. But I just thought, Wow, what
if I could walk in the room every time and
then they know that's you know, they know that's me,

(36:43):
say something like.

Speaker 5 (36:44):
That, Yeah, well you're thinking ahead. It's it's a branding thing.
It's just like if someone were to refer to you,
you know, I always remember you know Bacon's bits. He's
like obviously a big inspiration for me. You know, the
guy with the cigar. It's exactly, and he's done videos
on that. It's so meta because that's what helped me.
He's like when you talk about it, it's like, oh,
the guy with the cigar, And it's just like, well,
if someone talks about me, I'm hoping they're going to

(37:05):
see the guy who like drinks slurps the coffee. Like
that's it. So when it comes to that, you're just
you know, to me, you're just thinking about personal brand
and how people can easily recognize you, because you know,
if you're playing a show on a Friday night at
a bar and then you go to a concert for
some big band at the local like arena, and someone
sees those guys and be like, oh, that's the guy
from the band. Yeah, no question, no question. All right,

(37:28):
So I say you do it. I say you do it,
and you own it with full confidence.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
All right. Maybe a little thinner France, but I'm going
for it. I learned a lot of other stuff during
this last hour, but I think that's the only the
one thing I'm going to take with me. It's great,
you know, go with the classes. I think they're great.

Speaker 4 (37:45):
I think they're great.

Speaker 3 (37:46):
I can't thank you enough for your time today and
really appreciate all your posts and just your experience and
thanks just for being open and candid with us. I
really appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (37:57):
Johnny, thank you, thank you, Dave Chris. It's been an
honor being on here. I appreciate what you guys are doing.
I hope this can connect with people out there and
maybe we can do this again some point or even
in even in Colorado, at some point we can we
can connect. That would be an honor.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
It's just super fun. Thank you so much.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
I will appreciate your time.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
This episode starts with challenges of being in a band,
and you know we left off our last episode. I
just have one question about you know, your your girlfriend
starting dating your bandmate and uh living in the next
room that you had. Did you ever play, like any
songs to the walls that used to be close to

(38:53):
you guys, like put the speakers towards the wall, Little journey,
Peter Satara.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
You know how weird things get when you're in those
like circles at a younger age where everyone just gets
to really know each other. I can't really put any
explanation behind all weird that all got besides to say
that it's just a time in life where.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
Things are weird, you know.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
I mean, I don't even know if they were actually dating,
they were just hooking.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Up, which is worse. I don't even know.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
It was brutal. It was brutal. But all those things
write great songs, you.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Know, you know, being in the band, especially in close quarters,
close quarters, it's much about managing human relationships and logistics
as it is about music. And you know, it seems
like this span of the dream Boats really created that structure,
even down from him, like printing a schedule out for

(39:53):
every like mundane task, so you know, hey, lunches at
this time, our meetings at ten, swap girlfriends at two
thirty pm. That would be on your own, that would
have been on your band schedule.

Speaker 4 (40:07):
I do appreciate though, his attention to detail.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
And I you know, he said he was saying at
thirty nine living with roommates, and almost as if that
was a negative thing, And I almost wanted to be like, stop,
you just said to negative in an unintentional way, because
the truth is that like what he's doing, no one
in their twenties is responsible enough to write out a
band sheet for the day of list.

Speaker 4 (40:29):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, we're just not in the headspace.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
We're like, you know, cheating on each other with.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
It's like there is just a time where you just
become more responsible. And so where he's at is exactly
like you said in the interview, where he's supposed to be.
He's doing it excellent, and it just everyone should be
so lucky to have a leader doing those things for
them in their band.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
And the stakes are I think a lot more for
them now too, being older than in their twenties. When
you are sacrificing leaving your families and kids and all
those things to make something like that happen, you have
to make every single day.

Speaker 4 (41:05):
Count totally well.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
And that's that's sort of become my household thing with
my kids now. It's like we have a list of
what's going on that day, and so my wife and
I know who's driving, who where and when, and all
that stuff is a part of my daily life in
the family aspect too, you know. Just scheduling this this morning,
I had I'm leaving again out of town all weekend

(41:29):
to fly out for some shows, and so I had
to make time for my daughter this morning because she
gave me some shit last night that I hadn't been
around and it's rough. It's rough to get that from them,
and so I had to make priorities, and I appreciate
you being a little flexible with the time, just so
I could take her to the arcade a little while
and out to lunch this morning. And that's really made

(41:49):
all the difference, you know, so those and then that's
all on the calendar, like I know now we know
my wife knows who's taking my other kid to the
to his camps and all that. Those kind of things
are really important. They keep everything functioning. I can't imagine
not doing that anymore. I don't know how my band
survived doing zero planning, zero scheduling.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
We would just you know, we would.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
This is why often when you get books someplace, they
tell you to show up three hours early because they're
really concerned you're gonna be that typical type of artist
that shows up way later than you're supposed to and
they're just worried and they're already adjusting for that.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Well, I think doing this, as long as we've been
doing it, we found the two things that are most important.
I would say, A is your health. So for whatever reason,
if can't make it or do whatever, we want each
other to make sure that we're healthy. And the second
thing is to be there for our family, because life
is short and you have to be the you know this, this,

(42:49):
this is not as important as that time with your daughter.
You know this morning totally, and so I think that's
what resonates with me when I hear something like that.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Well, and there was so much to talk about with
their transitioning from Canada coming down to the US. Those
kind of stories are just so wonderful because they just
came down with a lot of faith, right Like, they
had four gigs booked, they had no other plan outside
of that except for that they believed that they could
get more out of this. And sure enough that faith

(43:20):
sometimes is the most important part because it makes you
do better in all of the opportunities you get believing
that they might lead to something else. And it is
always true. Every time you play a show, I always
go at it with that I tell my students is
if you go at it believing that that show should
leave to lead to one or two other shows or
opportunities of some sort, you're gonna perform better, You're gonna

(43:41):
show up better, You're gonna treat everything more importantly because
it is what's gonna lead you to the next thing.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
And the importance of you never know who's listening. Because
the gentleman who believed in them so much to help
them get to California, they had no idea he was
in the audience. You know, and what a huge game
changer that was. So and plus I think they probably
that hot tub had to be a good reason.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
Yeah, I would think it's always in the hot tub.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
You know, in your mind, you were about to make
some jokes and you just held them back.

Speaker 4 (44:13):
I had to.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
I mean he gave Yeah. There was a lot there
that I could not say. Yeah, and I feelink he
would have enjoyed it though.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Yeah, yes, yeah, very easy to talk to and he
really is an open book. Like you said that, he
just wants to help other people do what he's doing
or find ways to succeed with what he's learned and
pass that on. And that is such a that is
a sign of gratitude. That is, that is to me,
what the reason I teach, the reason that we.

Speaker 4 (44:41):
Do this podcast.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
It's all about this desire to make more people feel
what they want is possible, just like we have found
a way right, And that is a really important part
of feeling happy because the music industry is full of
wonderful people, and so then we forget to see that
side of each other because we're always trying to claw

(45:05):
our way up the ladder, right, or whatever the case.
Another thing I really enjoyed that they do is keep
those regular hours and try to create some sort of
standard regular schedule in their lives to help making sure
that they're giving enough time to grow the band and
the business, but also live their own lives those kind
of balances.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
Again, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
I ever had any sort of type of schedule like
that with my bandmates, you know, except for like a
band meeting included like some beers.

Speaker 4 (45:32):
And bongs, you know what I mean. Like it was
not what they're doing.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
No, it was pretty impressive. I'm blown away by it.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Actually, they also face unique challenges because they're not US citizens,
and I think that that is something that we would
like to talk with him more about and learn more
about how they navigate that certainly something we've never had
to deal with.

Speaker 4 (45:55):
Also just kind.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Of gives a little gratitude towards the fact that, you know,
the the US has a market I think that still
is open to everyone, right that it can be a
place where any great musician can come and find their footing.
And I think that's a really important thing as we
are in this society right now that's talking about immigration
so much, that we value diversity in the music industry.

(46:19):
We value perspective from all different cultures and backgrounds, and
I just I love that that they are here to
try to make their stamp on what it is they
want to do, and we've given them in this country
an opportunity to do that.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
I wonder how much has changed for them over the
last few months as far as traveling back and forth,
if it is easier or more difficult for them to
go back and forth.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Well, let's talk about his social channels, because I think
that's been our theme this season, has been really exposing
strategies that are working for people with their social channels.
It's funny because talking to them, he doesn't he doesn't
even really feel that gloating about how good he's doing
on these social channels. He is doing so outstanding, you know,

(47:10):
and he said it might be luck, but he has
these strategies. And I really learned a lot from him
talking about, you know, getting a lot from Gary Vee
and just coming with the approach and then learning and
then readjusting and then trying something else, and just being
consistent with that posting of every day. Those those habits,
they just keep producing results for him.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
A lot of these guests are coming from us talking
about this stuff so much, and then our feed just
being indundated. And that's where I found Johnny where he
just popped up on probably something that you and I
were talking about, and I'm like, this is fantastic, And
then another one and another one, and it's a puts
you in a good mood. B you don't feel alone.

(47:50):
And see if you don't agree with where he's coming from,
there is some piece in there that you can relate
to your own journey. And that's why I was I
don't want to say heated, but my yours we're getting
a little red when he's like people are giving him
shit like you've never been in a metal bands? That
talking about being in a metal band. He's talking about
an experience that you might be able to learn from.

(48:12):
And if you can't learn from that, well, then the
next one you might be able to learn from. So
instead of writing something negative on his feed, maybe come
up with the topic that you want to hear about
or have you had experience, or shut them and start
your own. You know, like, why do you have time
to go post negative shit? I just don't get it well.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
And I think we're seeing that a lot, because I
think people are threatened, well they're threatened that it might
be their own fault.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
That's probably the case. I'll guarantee it for all the
faults I have that you.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Know right well, And we've heard this before, Like what
people's relationship is with social media is what is your
relationship with social media? Because sometimes in the vegan stuff,
like when some people start attacking vegans, the guy has
such a hard time not getting into that like spiral
of emotion, which is totally pointless because just like on

(49:07):
our channel when it comes to us talking about how
possible it is to make a great living in the
music industry today, and we get these people that say
that that's just not true or that we don't know
what we're talking about.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
I mean, the same thing is on every.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Topic out there, whether it's politics or things like veganism
and religion and all of these things. We just love
to go on there and yell at each other and
try to prove ourselves right by yelling at someone else.
And that's really all that he's you know, dealing with,
and what's what we deal with. But the truth is,
I usually think that when you are getting a lot

(49:41):
of feedback whether it's positive negative, you must be making
a difference.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
You must be making an impact.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Yeah, because someone cares enough to shit on it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
And this always comes back to us talking about being
positive with a positive mindset, right, with a growth mindset,
with getting rid of the negativity. Somebody told today that
they've named their mind, and I thought that was really interesting.
Like she said her name of her mind was Nancy.
And so when Nancy starts acting up or Nancy starts
saying negative things, she's like, Nancy, I don't have time

(50:11):
for this today. It's the first evening to being crazy.
But at the same time, it does make sense, because
why do we treat our mind as us, right? Like
why do we our mind is really only its own machine,
and and it's usually trying to help us, But sometimes
that negative stuff really can get out of control.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
So I like the idea is it usually trying to
help us?

Speaker 3 (50:33):
I mean, you've got a pretty good mind, because I
feel mine's the opposite, and I have to constantly remind
myself I am not my thoughts, you know, And let's
turn the ship around totally.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
And that's that's that's why you can name it. You're
just kidding, what do you want to name yours?

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Don't even get me started, stitch, because it's gonna say shithead.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Well, whatever your tactic is, blame the industry, or the scene,
or these people that you're seeing on these threads that
are trying to motivate you are going to be a
waste of your time and energy.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
Right.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
The first step to growth is believing that you can
make some sort of difference with what it is you're
trying to do and what is it you want that
you have to believe it. It starts with you and
ends with you.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
Right, Yeah. Otherwise, you know he was talking about hope
earlier and goal is just a wish without a target.
You know, you need that roadmap and it involves developing
personal systems that in clear goals, creating an actionable plan
so you can say, hey, I can see myself moving
forward and end up where you want to be.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah, And that's creating a roadmap, right, That's creating some
sort of guide for you to follow. And that's really
what he's talking about with that morning list that we
talked about last episode, is that it gives him a guide, right,
It gives him that roadmap to follow and stay on
track despite all the other things that are going to
happen no matter.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
What every day.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
One other thing I wanted to mention that I really
liked about this episode was to be the role you
know you should be if it will help everyone. You know,
how can I bring the most value to this set up?
And own your role? And if you're the only one
driving that vision, keep going forward, but be aware of
the people that don't have that same vision and aren't

(52:22):
doing anything to help move it forward, because they're just
they're just holding you back and they're only going to
complain and bitch about things and leave you stranded when
you're you know, need to put your drums away. You're like,
I got my stuff, I'm out of here. What No,
you know, I can understand if someone standing around, but
as a team you have to act as a team member.

(52:45):
And if you start to see that the people aren't
showing up the way you do, you need to acknowledge it.
Otherwise animosity is going to come up, and that's going
to be a huge problem because all that is is
not saying what you feel for weeks and weeks and
it all just comes out and you know, over spilled
beer or something, or in the.

Speaker 4 (53:03):
Middle of a set.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yes, we've still seen those videos.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
Yeah. I loved hearing that because again felt like I
was not alone. You know, I'm probably both ends to
the probably times I could do more other times that
you know, I wish I had more help well.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
So our action this week is to spend some time
analyzing your goals with your social channels. Particularly, we're talking
about focusing on the goals for your social channels and
face the hard truth of how well you are showing
up for those goals. Do you need to post more often?
Questions like is the quality of your content up to
par with what it is that you are watching of

(53:39):
other people that you want to do it like? Or
do you need to get to the point faster? This
is your call to answer the question and to improve
your roadmap. We know that your time is valuable and
we appreciate you spending this time with us and being
a part of this community. Is our hope that you
feel that sense community here at musicians tip jard and
that you'll help.

Speaker 4 (53:57):
Spread the word to make us all stronger.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
If you'd like to get ahold of us or Johnny,
what's the best way to do that?

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Check out musicians tipjar dot com for tools, resources and
discounts built specifically to help keep you up on the
finance side of your music business. And reach out to
us anytime at musicians tipjar or Gmail. We'd love to
hear your story that this episode resonates with you, Share
it with a friend, leave a review, or hit the
like button if you're watching on YouTube. Helps us grow
this community and support more musicians like you. Check out

(54:24):
Johnny's Instagram page, forward, slash or act to jo h
n n y f i acco n I. Check out
his website, The Dreamboats band dot com.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
As always, thank you for joining us, and remember there
is already enough for everyone, You just need to know
how to get it. Until next time on behalf of
Dave Tamkins and myself Chris.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
Webstay happy, healthy and wealthy.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
The simple key to growing your audience is and always
will be, consistency and authenticity.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
This is Musicians Tipjar.

Speaker 6 (55:02):
Somebody, somebody. Nothing on this show should be considered specific
personal or professional.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
Advice past consultant, appropriate tax, legal, business.

Speaker 6 (55:17):
Or financial professional for individualized advice. Individual results are not guaranteed,
and all discussed strategies the potential profit of US are
operating on behalf of musicians Tips Jar LLLC exclusive claims

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}135. Taking the Luck Out of Growing Your Social Channels (with Johnny Fiacconi of The Dreamboats)

Episode Transcript

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135. Taking the Luck Out of Growing Your Social Channels (with Johnny Fiacconi of The Dreamboats)

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