September 1, 2023 • 57 mins
Joining me is Mindy Tautfest, Dean of MUFON University, and author of DYING TO MEET THEM. Mindy is a near death experiencer who’s heartbreaking experience led to an upheaval of her religious and spiritual beliefs, while confirming for her that consciousness indeed continues after death. Mindy Tautfest is a published author, speaker, television personality, and the curator of the Hayden C. Hewes International UFO Bureau (IUFOB).
Mindy has worked as an ICU Nurse with ACLS certification on assignments across the nation and has volunteered her time to Disaster Relief efforts including the Colorado Black Forest Fires, Hurricane Katrina, and the devastating May 3,1999 Moore Tornado. In 2016, Tautfest suffered a dissected brain aneurysm resulting in a Near Death Experience where she found herself in a place known as the Void. Mindy’s personal encounter with the Near Death phenomenon combined with years of investigations into UFO encounters, places her in a unique position to understand the underlying connections and after effects seen as a result of these enigmatic events. https://www.mindytautfest.com/
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Mindy has worked as an ICU Nurse with ACLS certification on assignments across the nation and has volunteered her time to Disaster Relief efforts including the Colorado Black Forest Fires, Hurricane Katrina, and the devastating May 3,1999 Moore Tornado. In 2016, Tautfest suffered a dissected brain aneurysm resulting in a Near Death Experience where she found herself in a place known as the Void. Mindy’s personal encounter with the Near Death phenomenon combined with years of investigations into UFO encounters, places her in a unique position to understand the underlying connections and after effects seen as a result of these enigmatic events. https://www.mindytautfest.com/
PLEASE HELP THE CHANNEL GROW ☕️🛸 SUBSCRIBE, like, comment, and click the Notification Bell so you don’t miss a show. Thank you! https://www.youtube.com/mysticlounge
Please leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts.
LINK TREE: https://linktr.ee/CoffeeandUFOs
HALF LIGHT documentary: https://tubitv.com/movies/678744/half-light
Check out other fantastic Un-X shows at https://www.unxnetwork.com/shows
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
You're listening to Mystic Lounge with AlanB. Smith, rebroadcast on the on
X Network Thursdays at eleven pm Pacific, Fridays at two a m. Eastern.
(00:32):
However you are and whenever you are, Welcome, good souls to Mystic
Lounge. This is Alan B.Smith, your most grateful host. We
are back live. I know it'sbeen intermittent between Mystic Lounge live streams,
but here we are, so thankyou all for joining us tonight. I
have a really really great guest,Mindy Toutfest. She is the author of
(00:57):
the book Dying to Meet Them,which we will talk about in depth tonight.
There's a great read. She's alsothe dean of Moufon University and just
really exciting news actually regarding the futureof Moufon, which I'm excited to share
for all of you who are UFOenthusiasts and investigators. I'm sure you'll appreciate
that. As usual, if youcould please subscribe comment down below, like
(01:21):
all of that really helps to supportthe channel, and click the notification bell
so you don't miss live streams likethis and the occasional pop up live stream
that we have as well, andof course coffee and UFOs. Next week
on Coffee and UFOs, same time, same place, Richard Dolan will be
joining me for a conversation about thehistory of uphology, the future disclosure,
(01:42):
and a new term that we're hearinglately, exposure. So we'll dig down
into that. I've been thinking aboutthis for a little while. Back in
the old days when Mystic Lounge usedto be called Paranormal Now, we used
to have call in lines where you, the listener, could call in live
and ask guests, question and commenton whatever the topic is. Most reactions
(02:08):
have been positive. When I asked, Hey, would you guys want to
have that back again, I've gota couple of people who said, you
know, we just like the morepodcast form, but I am really thinking
about bringing that back. So everyonein a comment tonight if you can just
let me know what you think.Do you want to see those open lines
again? Do you want to beable to call in and talk to the
guests? I really appreciate that Imiss it. You know, I come
(02:32):
from a background of improvisation and youknow, and being on stage, and
I enjoy the kind of thrill ofthe moment and just never knowing where a
conversations going and when you're live,there's no going back, there's no editing.
It just is what it is.I've always loved that format, and
yeah, I'm really tempted to bringthat back. So we'll see, and
(02:53):
I really want to hear what youhave to say regarding that. Okay,
so let's bring on our f tabguest. It's Mindy taut Fest, Dean
of Muffon University. Mindy is anear death experiencer whose heartbreaking experience led to
an up eval of her religious andspiritual beliefs while confirming for her that consciousness
(03:15):
indeed continues after death. Mindy Tautfestis a published author, speaker, television
personality, and curator of the HaydencyHughes International UFO Bureau. Mindy has worked
as an ICU nurse with ACLS certificationon assignments across the nation and has volunteered
her time to disaster relief efforts,including the Colorado Black Forest Fires, Hurricane
(03:40):
Katrina, and the devastating May third, nineteen ninety nine more Tornado. In
twenty sixteen, taut Fest suffered adissected brain aneurysm, resulting in a near
death experience. And that's what we'llbe talking about tonight. If you want
to find out more, Here isMindy that best Mindy. Welcome to Mystic
(04:02):
Lounge. How are you? Thankyou, Alan, I'm great. It's
good to see you. You too. Yeah, we had a nice chat.
I guess was it about a weekago? A couple weeks ago.
I know we end up talking forlike two hours. We did. We
were gonna do a show. ButI hadn't read your book yet, and
I really much prefer to read thematerial if I can. So I did
(04:23):
read Dying to Meet Them, andI want to say it's a great book,
but the truth is, is therea lot of hardship and tragedy in
the book. So if you canjust take us on that journey, because
really it's an expedited journey I wouldsay, of your harrowing experience to where
you are now. Yeah, well, I'm glad you got a chance to
(04:46):
read it. And I've been hearingfrom people that have read through it so
far. It was released what aboutthree weeks ago, and everyone I'm hearing
from is I can't put it down. I couldn't have put it down,
you know, I got right throughthrough it. So that's wonderful to hear
that people are actually identifying with someof the things that are in there.
So to back up what happened tome was in twenty sixteen, I was
(05:11):
living out on a three hundred acrewheat farm with my husband, and we
had moved back out there to kindof help my father in law. He's
up in his seventies and was havingtrouble, you know, taking care of
everything out there on the farm.So he was happy to have my husband
back. And so I was thereby myself that day. It was actually
the day of the presidential election betweenHillary and Trump. Excuse me, my
(05:36):
voice is still tired from the symposiumthis weekend. So I was home by
myself that day. My husband andkids had gone to school. My husband
was a Southern Baptist minister at thetime, but he was also pulling double
duty working as a teacher and coachat the local school, and so he
drove the school bus and took mykids to school with him and brought him
(05:59):
back. And so it was probablyearly afternoon, round four ish four thirty
whenever I came out to the couch, and I was looking to see if
there were any early exit polls onmy phone, and that's when I heard
this loud explosion inside my head.And my first instinct was to think that
I had been shot, because therehad been coyote hunters all around just in
(06:24):
the weeks prior, and I thought, okay, they've shot through the wall
and shot me. But I wastrying, you know, as an ICU
nurse, so I'm trying to assessthe situation, and I don't feel any
blood, and that's when I realizedthis has got to be a brain aneurism.
And I knew that I was atrisk for them because of an underlying
(06:44):
condition I had, but they didn'tthink that I had the type that caused
aneurisms. And so whenever I startedrealizing, Okay, this is really bad,
that's whenever I felt what I describedas an electrical avalanche. It started
at the top of my head andit just felt like appealing away, like
a rolling away from me from myhead to my toes, and it was
(07:08):
excruciating. And that's that's the momentI realized I'm not going to survive this.
There's no way. And I'm sittingthere looking on was sitting on my
couch, looking at my front doorwith the door wide open, waiting for
the kids to come in and givemommy hugs and kisses and tell me about
their day, and my heart justsank and I started praying, God,
(07:31):
do not let my kids find mybody. At the time, they were
five and seven years old, andI just I didn't want to be the
worst thing that ever happened to them, and so I was in deep,
remorseful prayer, you know, justthat this was happening and that may be
the ones to find me. Andas I was praying deeply, I started
(07:57):
kind of looking around. I kindof stopped and I just looked, and
I realized I was in darkness.And I didn't even realize at that point
that I was dead. My firstinstinct was like, huh, I'm not
hurting, okay. I was tryingto assess if it was dark or if
(08:18):
there was nothing around me. SoI put my hand out in front of
me, and that's what you seeon the cover of the book is the
hand and the darkness sticking out there. Because that was my first instact.
Let me look at my hand,And when I couldn't see it, I
thought, okay, well, letme try to clap my hands. Do
I have hands, and so Istarted trying to clap, and when I
did that, I realized That's whenI realized I have no form, I
(08:43):
am dead, and my heart justsunk. I started waiting at that point,
you know, Okay, well whatcomes next? You know, there
should be this tunnel of light showingup, and I'm waiting for my loved
ones to greet me. I'm waitingfor Jesus to show up. And the
more time I waited, the moreI started getting more fearful because nothing was
(09:07):
happening. And so I started going, Okay, you know, I turned
back to my Christian teaching, andI'm like, what's next. You know,
I guess I'm waiting on judgment.You know, I'm either going to
heaven or hell. And you areyou were more fundamental, right, fundamentalist?
Absolutely? Yeah. My husband wasa Southern Baptist minister and we had
traveled all over the state of Oklahomapreaching the gospel, and I was very
(09:31):
fundamental in my belief. So Iwas waiting for the Christian narrative to unfold.
And I'm waiting, you know,and I'm fearful because I'm I don't
know if I'm going to heaven orHell, because I'm not getting the tunnel
of light. I'm not you know, I'm not getting any any greeting here.
And so I start praying again,and I'm in deep prayer, asking
(09:52):
Jesus to be my righteousness and tostand in my place. I can't get
into heaven without you. And I'mfor my husband and kids. I'm wondering
if they found my body yet.And you know, I'm devastated because I've
just lost them, and I'm tryingto deal with that, and I'm trying
to deal with my eternity. I'mtrying to figure out, you know,
(10:16):
what's unfolding here. And as moretime passed, it felt like an eternity
over there. I felt like Iwas there so long, and I started
kind of filling out the area andI realized that, Okay, I felt
like I was almost an invisible boxthat was separating me from everything, and
(10:37):
I could feel God surrounding me.I mean, he was this force that
was everywhere around me, and hecontained everything, all of creation from all
time, you know, as farback you know, from creation until now.
You say, you say he,But in your book you also talk
about there being a separate male entitypresence. Are those one of the same
(11:03):
thing or separate? No, thesetwo were separate. What I call God
or the Source was this force thatjust surrounded and encompassed everything. And me
being separate from that is part ofwhat just crushed me spiritually, because I
was not allowed to be part ofeverything in existence, and there was no
(11:26):
remedy for my soul there because Iwas just my feelings. I was just
my thoughts, and there was nothing. I couldn't turn on the TV.
I couldn't even twiddle my thumbs.I couldn't do anything to take my mind
off of what was happening there.And so I started reflecting on myself.
You know, what have I done? Why am I cast out into this
(11:48):
darkness by myself. I didn't expectingthe white light and the you know,
family and friends are greeting you fromfrom their past, and that wasn't there.
I guess it must have just feltutterly lonely. It was incredibly and
fearful. I mean, I wasin a place that I had no knowledge
(12:09):
of. You know, I expectedto either be in heaven or hell,
and I was caught somewhere in between. And I describe it more later in
the book about my feelings on it. But while I was there and kind
of I didn't have a life review. I kind of more just assessed myself
(12:30):
and said, what's wrong with me? Why am I not good enough for
you? God? And I've trieddoing everything for you. You know,
I've preached your gospel, I've I'veloved you, I've done everything I can.
And it came to me that Ineeded to learn to love myself.
And as soon as that happened,that's when that mail presence showed up behind
(12:50):
me, and I couldn't see him, I sensed him there, and I
describe in the book it was almostlike a hesitant kindness that he showed to
me, like he was breaking arule to even contact to me there.
But I think my suffering was atsuch a point that he intervened and he
told me, You're not going tobe here forever. And once he did,
(13:13):
I mean instantly I was relieved becauseI knew someone was there and I
knew I wasn't going to be thereforever. And as soon as he did
that, that's when we started sailingoff to the left, and I noticed
a purple glow in the distance,and as we continued getting closer and closer
to it. It had these pinkintersecting lines in it, and where they
(13:35):
met up they glowed bright yellow.And just the closer I got, the
more love just radiated off of it. And I thought, wow, And
he said, that's the fabric ofhumanity. So that fabric of humanity you're
seeing in the void. So isthe void a negative a bad place?
(14:00):
Is it an e place? OrI don't believe so. And that's one
of the things that I had toresearch. And this was years after I
spent two years, you know,and you read through all the suffering and
what I really went through just tosurvive physically. And after that, after
I finally I spoke to my husbandabout it, we started looking at some
(14:22):
of the other religions and what theythought about places of darkness and whatnot.
I really don't believe I was inpurgatory. I wasn't under any kind of
judgment. The void held no illwill towards me. It was almost like
a place for me to purge,and it was a place just of neutrality.
(14:46):
I almost believe, mainly with whatthe Tibetan Book of the Dead says,
which is that where I was wasat the highest heaven, I was
bare in front of the God thatcreated everything. And so it it completely
changed my faith. I'm not nota Christian now that I don't have to
(15:09):
have faith. I know that Godexists, I have no doubt. Well,
so, according to many traditions,which you talk about in the book,
that in the beginning, there wasessentially a void, a nothingness or
or at best, you know,waters and no light. Right there's and
in the face of God flying overthe water and you know, bringing life
(15:33):
life and all that. And thenother traditions also have similar creation stories.
So if if the void, andI'm thinking of this because Ufie and Chat
had commented here, if the voidis a representation of what was or the
absolute sub straight like the the deepestsystems of the software, you know,
(16:00):
that's that sounds like what it soundslike the void is because you're seeing this
intersection of these lines, these energylines that are occurring there. That to
my mind, that sounds just trulyneutral and not inherently good or evil.
Right in any way? Does thatmean that heaven as people imagine heaven to
(16:23):
be or what they expected to be, is a creation itself that came from
the void. I believe so that, and I get into that in the
later chapters, and that was reallywhat kind of was impressed on my spirit,
was that I was operating outside ofany kind of construct, whether it
(16:45):
be here on this earth, whetherit be Heaven, whether it be Hell.
I was, and I say inthere, I was literally with the
great and powerful laws. I sawbehind the curtain where all of this came
from. And you bring up theother traditions where there was like none or
chaos, and all of these haveeverything springing out of nothing, out of
(17:07):
this dark void, and I believethat that's exactly where I was. And
the frightening aspect of it is.I mean, you think about people in
the Bible that fell down and worshipedangels because they were terrified, and angels
are like, don't worship me,Get up. I mean, to be
laid completely bare in front of thecreator of everything is a terrifying experience in
(17:34):
itself. But like I said,the void did not hold any ill will
towards me. I was terrified becauseI didn't know where I was, and
I didn't know how to process whatwas happening to me. What was the
drawback? How did you find yourselfbeing pulled back to consciousness. Well,
after I was shown the fabric ofhumanity, I really wanted to go to
(17:57):
it, and he had into kdid no, it's not for you,
and I believe it wasn't for me. Well, there's that's a parallel right
there, because even sometimes people whohave neared experiences where they see, you
know, a luminous white light,all encompassing white light, or a tunnel,
they're drawn to it. Right So, even though yours is the void
(18:19):
and you're seeing kind of an emptiness, a lack of light, but you
do see something and you're drawn tothat something, and that's very similar.
I almost wonder if he showed thatto me so that I would always have
that hope, because I think ifI had left there with just the darkness,
I don't know. I thank himfor what he had, the kindness
(18:42):
that he showed to me to stepforward and to comfort me and to show
me what he did. But afterhe showed that to me, immediately bam,
I was back in my body andI restarted, almost like a computer
booting up. I mean it wasa move and I was back and I
(19:02):
had when I came to I wasslumped over on the couch. I had
had a stroke. My right armwasn't working, my speech was slurred,
and I had had the aneurysm.And the actual term for what I had
is a vertebral artery dissection. Soit wasn't like a vain, you know,
ballooned out in my brain. Thiswas an artery leading up into my
(19:26):
brain that ripped in two places,that two large chunks blew out of it,
And so it was a very serioussituation. Most people do not survive
the initial dissection like I did,and you survived a long time without getting
properly diagnosed as well. Yeah,And I go into that in the book
(19:48):
where it was two years. Rightafter I came to I was able to
find my phone and I called myfather in law and he came over and
sat with me for a few fewminutes until my husband got home. And
where we lived, we were thirtymiles away from the closest hospital, and
this was a little community hospital thatwas close the closest to us, And
(20:11):
so they got me loaded up inthe car and drove me up there and
they did one scan and said,well, maybe your next shifted, and
they sent me home and I said, you've got to be kidding me.
Something really bad happened, and Ireturned to the ear the next day.
(20:32):
I went up there several more timesand they would call my neurologists, and
neurologists would say, you know,you have this type of migraine that looks
like a stroke and quit coming upto the er. And so we finally
had enough of it. We soldour house and then moved back to Oklahoma
City, where within a week Iwas in with a good doctor who did
(20:52):
the scans and said, I can'tbelieve you are alive, with your with
your background as a nurse. Whywhat was it the p BO we're ignoring?
Why wouldn't they listen to you whenyou were telling them, hey,
something's wrong here. I don't Idon't know if it's it's part of your
your case at all. I don'twant to, you know, put the
overlay that on you. But Ido know that statistically, women tend to
(21:15):
be less believed than men when they'rein hospitals when they express pain. So
I'll let you answer that, butI think we should add something to your
backstory which people didn't don't may notreally understand you growing up because you had
what's the genetic condition where you're it'scalled yeah, Ellers Dandlers syndrome, Okay,
(21:37):
eller Sdandler syndom, so that youknow, creates constantly cam pain that
you've had to deal with your entirelife. So your threshold of pain is
probably higher intolerance, not literally higher, but higher intolerance and ability to function
right the person. So when yousay I'm feeling pain, they're looking at
you, going, she doesn't looklike she's in pain. You can't hop
(21:59):
pretty much. And that's exactly it. And I even talk about that in
the book. Is you know,if I had any fault at all,
I wasn't sitting there acting like anidiot. You know, I wasn't freaking
out and screaming or anything. Iwas very calmly saying something happened. I'm
in a lot of pain. AndI had what's known as occipital neuralgia,
(22:21):
and it's actually known as the suicidedisease because it basically fried every nerve in
my skull and it felt like lavawas flowing through my skull. For two
years. It was horrific, horrificpain. And I would sit there and
just calmly tell them I'm in horrificpain, calmly, so maybe you should
(22:45):
have screamed. Yeah. Well,and part of eller stand loos having that
underlying condition. It causes chronic dislocation. So I'll wake up and my arms
dislocated and I just go about myday and I'm still back. You mean,
you know, it's part of mylife, and so I am.
I do have a high pain tolerancebecause of it, and I think that
(23:10):
that played into why they did notlisten to me. But I sat and
cried for an hour or so inthis doctor's office here at Oklahoma City,
and she told me, you know, this is an extremely rare condition that
you're talking about, you know,to have a vertebral artery dissection. And
I said, I know it happened, and thankfully she listened, and like
(23:33):
I said, she sent me infor the testing. And within a week,
I mean that I was in therefor the test and the radiologist.
The picture in the back of thebook is actually from the radiologists personal cell
phone. He took a picture ofit because he couldn't believe that I was
sitting there talking to him. Soyou had to start working now on your
(23:55):
health or a couple of years ago. Bay, it's a struggle for your
family. Excuse me. You wentto go live with some friends too,
to alleviate some of that stress fromyour family. Right, I did well,
And that was before we moved toOklahoma City. That was right after
the dissection had happened, and Iwas so terrified to be home. I
(24:17):
was passing out every day. Iwas having multiple strokes that I was told
to sit in the bathtub and justyou know, you know, just just
relax. They're not there's nothing wrong. Well, they said they were migraines.
Right, They told me it wasa migraine, and they told me
I had anxiety and to take anice warm bath. And I was having
(24:37):
multiple strokes because it was clotting off. And that's what was saving my life,
was that clotting off so I wouldn'tbleed out. But you know,
that's why I ended up moving inwith some friends and they were from church.
I had only met this family maybetwice, and we hadn't lived there
(24:59):
on the farm long, so Ididn't know him all that well. And
I called him and said, youknow, I'm terrified. And my friend
Laurie, she just said, whydon't you just stay with us. I'm
home during the day, and youknow, bless her, bless her.
I mean she invited me in.I end up standing with them for over
a month, and I mean shesat by my bedside. I was having
(25:23):
nightmares. I don't even remember shesaid I was talking about the void at
that time. I didn't think Ihad talked about it for two years,
but I guess in whatever state Iwas in, I was telling her things
because I wasn't able to fall asleep. I was so terrified at that point
because I was I say in thebook, I didn't feel like there was
(25:44):
any place for me between heaven andearth. You know, I was scared
to go back to the void.I was scared to keep living here.
I was in such terrible pain.There was no rest. We'll talk,
We'll talk about you if it wasin just a minute. But I do
want to ask sk So, howdid this affect your spiritual belief system?
(26:07):
You know, you everything you believedin was built around, you know,
your Christian belief right, what happenedto that Christian belief? Did it change?
Did you do you believe in somethingelse completely? Well? And I'm
glad you asked me that, I'lltell you. At this symposium, I
actually got kind of verbally accosted bya preacher there who was quoting scripture at
(26:32):
me and you know, casting thingsat me. And you know, I
feel sorry for people like that becauseI used to be people like that and
my as far as my beliefs now, I have such a greater love for
everybody. I have such a greaterrespect for everybody. I don't have to
(26:55):
have a belief in God because Imet him. He exists. I have
no doubt. You sink God,you think God, he, But then
you also refer to a source.Is it a masculine energy or you just
using those those words and pronounced justfrom that's from from the Bible. Yeah,
I believe more just from the Bible. And it was more just a
(27:15):
force immense that permeated everything. AndI guess to personify it, I would
put it as a he. ButI haven't lost my Christian faith, and
I still have questions about Jesus whyhe didn't show up. But I think
what was done to me there andwhat I went through there was a divine
(27:40):
appointment. I believe it was everythingthat I needed for my spirit personally to
experience to get on track to whereI needed to be. And I don't
see it as a judgment. Idon't feel like I was harshly judged or
anything like that. In fact,I was treated quite nicely there. Or
you know, but yeah, atleast you had you had a sort of
(28:03):
concierge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. And you know,
people think of like darker experiences asyou know, being negative, and that's
not necessarily the truth. It wasfrightening for me, yes, but I
see the wisdom in it too,because it was everything that I needed,
(28:25):
and I'm thankful for it today becauseI know how far it has brought my
spirit. Sorry, my voice iscutting out from the symposium still, but
I know how far it's brought myspirit to where I am today. And
I've made such wonderful friends now onthis other side of things that probably never
(28:45):
would have talked to before because Ihad such staunch beliefs against you know,
mingling with anybody different or you know, anything like that. So, well,
how did your family, how didJohn and your kids just to that?
Because oftentimes in these situations, onceone person goes through an extreme life
(29:07):
altering event, they change and therest of the people around them can't adapt
to that, or can't change withthem, can't or can't accept that at
all. So how did your familydeal with with your evolution? Well,
and that's another great question. Ican quote in the book what eight eighty
five percent of marriages end after anear death experience, and a great majority
(29:30):
of near death experiences are positive ones. People go straight to heaven. And
so how much harder for a pastor'swife to say I didn't go to heaven,
you know, and for me tofinally confront him with that. It
took two years for me to finallytell him, Look, this is what
happened, and I've got to beupfront with you. And I was scared
(29:55):
to tell him, but I knowwhat a wonder full man I'm married too.
That's why I married him. Andhe said, we'll figure this out
together. And he did. Imean, he held my hand through the
whole thing. He found Ian's,which is the International Association for Near Death
Studies, and he signed us upfor our first meeting, and we read
(30:18):
together, we grew together, andwe walked through this whole thing together.
He did never, he never leftmy side. And let me just you
know, Wallow and my sadness orfear alone. You know, he sat
by me night after night, andwe made it through together. And I
wish that everybody had that experience tohave a spouse that completely believed them.
(30:45):
But my husband knew me. Heknows I'm not a liar, he knows
I'm not one to tell tall tales, And for me to say something like
this, he knew that it wasbased in truth and that there was something
more for us to learn out ofthis together. Do you still feel like
you're learning? Absolutely? Where?I never stop? Yeah, where are
(31:07):
you in that? In that process? Like if you just look at yourself
right now spiritually, where where areyou? I just think that I've grown
to a more open acceptance. AndI know that that might be hard for
like a Christian to hear. Youknow, if I could hear if I
heard myself today, you know,if I heard myself back then what I'm
(31:29):
saying today, I'd be like,oh, she's going down the wrong road,
you know. But I know whatI've experienced now, and I just
think that I've learned more acceptance andopenness and appreciation for everything that God has
created and everyone that God has created. So I see the purpose in everybody,
(31:49):
right, and the gratitude for thethings that aren't messed up right,
like right, because there's plenty ofthat that is messed up. Right.
Well, that's true, because youknow, Dark Knight of the Soul and
all that. But you know it'sI do come often from an atheistic point
(32:12):
of view, which is which isn'tto say that I don't believe that there's
a super consciousness. I do believethat. I don't know for a fact
that's what I believe, But youknow, I do wonder if there is
a singular consciousness in the way thatwe think as like an individual human.
That's where I have a problem withtrying to understand like all the pain that
(32:32):
that's caused. You know, LikeI can accept that pain and suffering is
a part of life and it canmake you a better person, it can
help you grow, it can makeyou stronger. I accept those truths,
but I don't know if I canaccept that someone designed it so that I
have to, you know, suffer. You know that that children have to
(32:55):
suffer, that there's cancers and diseases. That's where I get a little where
are you with that? Well?I still absolutely believe in free will,
and I think that that's integral inwhat we are doing here. We have
choices to make, and sometimes people'schoices affect us negatively. Is sometimes our
choices affect others negatively? Is itfair? Absolutely not? But I think
(33:21):
that that's part of our learning processand I think that it does. It
serves purpose in helping us grow.And I speak that from you know,
literally dying and going through that pain, and I see purpose in it.
I can't imagine what you went through. That's it's difficult to conceive. But
(33:44):
in some of your descriptions of whatyou were talking about during the book reminded
me of some of my own psychedelicexperiences as well. This is a comment
from UFI. Some perceive the quotecreator God as a consciousness that is present
at all points in time, space, to mention, etc. Yeah,
(34:04):
well is that how you perceived it? I do to some degree. And
in chapter nine I talk about theabsolute and that comes from the Gateway process
that the government was doing back inthe nineteen eighties. And whenever I read
about that, I said, ohmy gosh, this is exactly this is
describing exactly where I was and whatI went through. That's what I had
(34:27):
come back with and was trying toformulate into you know, words, because
I'm not a quantum physicist. Idon't know you know what I mean that
that's way over my head, andso a lot of Chapter nine is way
over my head. That was thingsthat were impressed on my soul while I
was over there, that that wasoperating in the absolute outside of time and
(34:52):
space, where it was just thebeginning basically speaking of all these programs in
the past, and the government experimentedwith not just that government, other governments
as well, with psychic abilities andsuch. If they were so effective,
why don't they continue those programs?Now it used to say they're not.
(35:16):
It's right, all right. Ithink they were highly successful, especially with
training psychic spies and everything, andwith the Gateway process. What they were
doing. They were using the hymnissincprocess from the Monroe Institute, and they
were utilizing different frequencies which they wouldaim on each side of your brain and
(35:38):
it would synchronize into you know,put you into delta waves or theta waves
or something like that, and theywere training the soldiers how to then utilize
that and to enter into other dimensionsto contact entities there and get information from
(35:59):
them and bring it back here.And so that's exactly a good description of
what I experienced over there. IfI wanted to go back psychically and visit
the void, I could contact thatmil entity that was there with me and
get information from him and bring itback. It's exactly what our government was
(36:19):
doing. But way back in thenineteen eighties, that would be have you
tried that? You have you actuallytried maybe contacting I started going through you
can find the gateway process online andso I went through about half of it,
and then the pandemic happened and wesold our house and moved and everything.
So I never picked it back up. But I kind of started thinking
(36:42):
on that track, what if Idid? You know, I know that
with meditation, I'm very easily ableto send my consciousness back over there.
I think that it's still entangled withthe void to some degree, right,
and speaking to Ufi's and earlier,and what you just said this when you
(37:04):
were in the void and you wereseeing this kind of like nexus point,
it seems like, or origin pointor whatever it is. If time truly
according to you know, physics ortheoretical physics, I should say, if
time really isn't linear, right,it's all existing simultaneously, but it just
(37:25):
kind of hard for our human brainsto wrap around. But if that's true,
then is it possible when you werein the void, that you were
actually in the beginning absolutely of creationitself? Absolutely, and that that's what
I was getting at. It created, what encompassed that, that spirit there,
(37:50):
the source was everything throughout all time. I believe I was at the
beginning and the end. I wasin the presence of it all, and
that's what I was saying. Iwas laid bare in front of the Alpha
and Omega. I was there infront of all of it. And while
you're over there time, I mean, there's a progression of events in a
(38:15):
linear fashion, but you're operating outsideof that as well. It's almost like
you can see everything around you,you can feel everything around you all at
once. Everything is in that momentand it's everything. It's it's hard to
put into human words, really,So let's talk about UFOs, right because
(38:36):
we Okay, that's something we definitelycan say. We haven't a comment because
I haven't had a near death experience. Knock on, would how did this
lead to your I mean, youwent all in right, like it wasn't
just a little by little graduate likeyou like, it's amazing what you've accomplished.
(38:57):
So tell us that that point.Yeah. Yeah. And well,
after a couple of years, youknow, I had told my husband about
the near death experience and everything.After we'd moved back here to Oklahoma City,
I ended up having another tear inmy artery and I ended up back
in the hospital. I was inthe neuro step down for a few days,
and my blood pressure was hovering fortyover twenty. I mean, I
(39:21):
was not doing well. And sowe started making my funeral arrangements. I
was telling him, Mom has aburial plot over here, and you know,
I want this person to step inand be a female presence in our
children's lives, and you know,just making all of the terrible arrangements you
never want to do when you're inyour thirties. And out of that,
(39:45):
he said, well, let's let'splan something fun. You know, what's
on the bucket list. What doyou want to do? And I said,
I want to go to Roswell.So he said okay, So he
planned it out and that summer wewent to the Roswell Festival. It was
twenty nineteen, and we took thekids and we had a great time.
And out of that I met KathleenMartin and she had started the experience or
(40:08):
resource team from mouf On and youknow, just driving home, I was
like, you know, wouldn't itbe so cool to like sit in on
mouf on meetings and hear what theytalk about. And so I called headquarters
and they put me in touch withDoug Wilson, who was the director of
investigations at the time, and Italked to Doug. He was so patient
(40:32):
with me. He talked to mefor over two hours, and I said,
Doug, you know, I reallyreally want to investigate and he said,
we need people in Oklahoma. AndI was like, well, I'm
not in the best help. I'mstill passing out and I'm in out of
the hospital. And he was like, well, if you really want to,
we'll give you what you can handle. Get most of it's online when
you first start. And I said, okay, you know, this is
(40:55):
a dream come true. I've alwayswanted to do this. So I did.
I jumped in both feet and andyou know, became an investigator and
within a year I was state director, and then within another couple of years,
here I'm working on mouf On Universityand heading up training worldwide. So
I mean I really jumped in andit really kind of served as a catalyst
(41:19):
to my healing. I mean Ineeded something to grab onto, and I
was so excited to be a partof move On and to have that opportunity.
It really drove me. Each morningI woke up excited ready to see
what new cases came in. Andyou know, why do you think there's
such a crossover between your more mysticalexperience, right and the subject like you
(41:45):
uphology. We see a lot ofpeople who have a duel or multi disciplined
interest paranormal, UFO metaphysics. Well, well even see that with Bigelow.
Now Bigelow went from being out atSkinwalker Ranch and now he's throwing all of
his money behind near death research.So you know, obviously he's found some
(42:08):
kind of connection there's right. Yeah, Yeah, But that came along as
I started working cases, and themore I got in the higher level cases
I was doing. When I gotto category three and was talking with adductees,
I started going, Holy cow,these people sound like me. These
(42:29):
people have had a spiritually transformative eventout of their contact encounter, and so
I started taking note of it,and I thought, okay, am I
just making a connection with there isnone, But I just wanted to keep
an eye and I decided to readCommunion by Whitley Strieber, and that's what
(42:49):
sealed the deal for me. Hehad talked about a night when he came
back from walking around town and hewas really wrestling with what had been going
on, and he talked about thisforce that kind of consumed him and it
circled him, and it knew himthroughout all of his time, and he
ends it was saying, are wejust on a stage? And I thought,
(43:12):
oh my god, this is exactlywhat I got out of my near
death experience. And how can hesound so much like me being an abductee?
And so I started looking. Isaid, Okay, if I'm noticing
this, someone else's smarter than mehas noticed this before. And that's when
I found doctor Kenneth Ring and theOmega Project where he had carried out this
(43:35):
battery of questions back in the earlynineties through the University of Connecticut, and
he was comparing near death experiencers toUFO experiencers, and he ended up identifying
what he called the encounter prone personalityand then also a set of after effects
which he saw in both types ofexperiencers. And so it really kind of
(44:00):
solidified that there is something running alongsideboth of these types of experiencers. I
wanted to ask you about that becauseyou talk about that in the book.
How do the experience or prone personalityif no one knew anything else? It
just sounds like a psychological descriptive,like an experience that someone has psychologically,
(44:25):
So how do we know that it'snot a psychological purely a psychological or current
currents within one's own mind versus somethingelse other, an outside. Yeah,
that's one of the things that doctorRing really wanted to rule out, was
is this someone that is fantasy prone? And some of the questions he asked
(44:49):
served to rule that out. Sothese people weren't people that were outside battling
dragons or you know, you know, imagining things. And and you know,
I am not an imaginative person.I can't come up with a story,
you know, to save my life. But you can write though,
you can definitely write, well,thank you, I can I can write
(45:10):
about what I've experienced. But I'mand I even talk about that in the
book, where you know, myhusband would have to tell my kids bedtime
stories because I literally just I'd belike Mindy and Juan went to the grocery
store. Come on, mom,a little color in the voice, I
know. So, I mean,you're just as a natural person speaking and
(45:32):
talking. You've got you know,great energy and cadence and and and all
that. So I think that maybe, yeah, you don't. You're not
going to write the next trilogy ofLord of the Rings, but but you
are a good messenger, I thinkfor I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah,
And while and I'm so excited aboutdoctor Ring allowing me to share some
(45:55):
of his research in the book,because he really he was a trailblazer back
then. I mean, he laida foundation that I think people are just
starting to catch on too. Withall of these similarities. And you were
asking about the encounter prone personality.One of the things that he identified was
that these people as children learn howto dissociate. And it wasn't that they
(46:20):
just associated, but they dissociated tothe exclusion of everything in their environment.
So they were fully immersed within theirmind. Almost in a meditative state where
they were contacting entities in other realms. It displayed very differently from people that
are extremely imaginative, so he wasable to rule out that this was an
(46:45):
imaginative thing and that this was moresomething to do with how our brains operate
to be able to put over there. Just like someone that's naturally inclined to
be psychic, they have something,you know, different, They're not imagining
things, they're actually contacting some kindof information out there. And it's much
(47:07):
the same thing with the encounter pronepersonality. So that that leads into why
some people die and they don't havenear death experiences. They don't necessarily have
that encounter prone personality to be ableto bring that back. Have you ever
investigated on your own a UFO reportthat reminded you of, you know,
(47:30):
some kind of consciousness altering experience thatwould be a parallel and near death experience,
or a psychedelic experience, or ora mystical dream spontaneous dream state.
Well, there was one moof oncase that I investigated, and it was
(47:50):
an art case and I can't revealeverything about it since it is very secretive.
But this woman I just want to. I just want to reframe that
and not secretive, but people peopleasked to be information anonymous. Yes I
yes, yes, but yes,I'm not going to reveal anything about her,
(48:14):
but she she she became one ofmy favorite people to talk to after
investigating her case because she was transformedevery bit as much as I was from
an encounter that she had with acraft and the things that she went through.
(48:34):
She was a completely different person comingout of that. And I just
saw the transformation that she encountered.She told me about how she was before
and who I was talking to todaywas not the same person. And so
I again, that was one ofthe cases that really solidified to me that
(48:55):
there is something here underlying that ischanging people. And doctor Ring actually came
to the conclusion that he believed itwas a new Omega prototype where it was
almost like a shamanistic journey and it'susing, you know, being used whether
through et contact or through near deathexperiences, that this is being used to
(49:16):
almost evolve the human race and tomake us more open and more loving and
more accepting of each other. We'vegot to quit fighting each other. We've
got to quit we don't have anyhope so I guess the idea here is
is that if they just come down, let's say they're extraterrestrials or interdimensionals,
(49:37):
whatever, if they just kind ofimpose themselves obviously directly into our affairs,
the thinking here is that wouldn't actuallyhelp us evolve, because if that were
the case, they would just doit right, right. I mean,
maybe maybe they don't want to comevisit us, but I mean we're one.
(50:00):
We're talking of these entities from otherplaces. There are so many outlets
where we could be seeing them comingfrom. I believe a lot of them
are interdimensional. I think there's agood good basis for maybe thinking that some
of them are coming from Inner Earth, and then there is good evidence for
(50:20):
them coming from off planet. Sowe may be seeing a mixture of some
of these things. And not everybody'sfriendly, so we you know, there's
a lot to wage through. It'snot just one thing that's coming here.
Yeah, there's a lot to uncoverwith it, right, and everyone has
researchers have their own perspectives, LikeDavid Jacobs has a much more dire perspective,
(50:43):
and then you have other other researcherswho are like, that's generally pretty
benign in your investigations. Do youwhat is your best guess as to what
these UFOUAP encounters are or maybe theirorigin, best best guest, best guests.
(51:05):
Well, that's the million dollar questionhere. I like I said,
I think that it's no money onthe table, no money on the table.
But if you just had to throwone idea out there, yeah,
Well, and I'm very big onthe interdimensional hypothesis. I mean, because
I encountered an interdimensional being and Iwas able to come back, I see
(51:29):
very good evidence for why they wouldbe able to come over here and pop
into our existence. I think thatthat's some of the advanced technology that we're
seeing. It's almost like being ina video game, code something in and
there. It's popped into that reality. And again that's what I get into
(51:50):
in chapter nine, where I literallycame back feeling like I had entered the
matrix. And so I think thata lot of this is simulation. We
can pop things in and out,and I believe that they're utilizing some of
that. But that's not to saythat's the only thing that we're seeing.
Did you get to see Avey Loebespeak at the symposium? I didn't get
(52:13):
to see anybody speak at the Iplan on going back and watching all of
them this next week. Yeah.Where where are we with the training program
in mouf On because I know thatyou are making some updates, some upgrades.
Yes, yeah, and this lastyear we've been plugging away. Mouf
(52:37):
On University was the brain child ofKin Saint John about fifteen years ago and
it was built and it was leftstagnant basically, and that's what all of
our field investigators have been going throughthe training on there. Well, about
a year ago I got with oneof our board of directors, Terry Lynkhill,
who's one of my very very bestfriends within, and I said,
(53:00):
why can't we film something and stickit up there, you know that's kind
of more updated. And that turnedinto a year long process where we've now
completely revamped it. We've gone overto a whole new platform and we have
built there are videos for every aspectof the investigation. So we're looking at
(53:22):
we're showing people how to investigate theastronomical objects. We're showing people how to
investigate flight radar, and how tolook at the media reports and you know,
just every aspect of what we doto be able to rule out the
false positives and misidentifications, and sothere's hours and hours of instruction on there
(53:44):
and here. Within the next twothree weeks, it'll be launched in tandem
with our new investigation form. Sonormally for thirty is what we work our
investigations on. That's been completely revampedand updated to our newest capabilities, and
so it'll go hand in hand withthe new training. And the training will
(54:07):
be only for field investigators. Soif someone's interested in neufology and they're wanting
to get involved, they can alwaysgo join move On and talk to the
State director and become a field investigator, go through the exam, and once
they pass that exam, then they'llbe able to go on to move On
University and get all of that wonderfultraining that we've been working on so hard
(54:30):
for the last year. So Iwas able to give a little preview of
it there at the State director meetingat the symposium, and it was overwhelming.
The state directors received it just withopen arms. They're so excited about
it, and so that got mereally excited to see them so happy about
what we've done. Because we've workedour tails off and I'm really hoping it'll
(54:53):
set a new standard within move Onand just within ufology as a whole.
That's awesome because it really is neededneeds needless to say it was dated,
you know to a degree, willsay it was it was, and and
now I get to go through itagain, which is kind of cool.
And so brush up on some informationand I'm sure there'll be some new information.
(55:15):
But yeah, I mean having havingyou know, more up to date
and you know, video technology fortraining. I think it's fantastic. Yes,
So I encourage anyone who's just interestedto go check out move On for
sure. Mindy your website is Mindytoutfest dot com. You can get her
book there. If you could leaveus with any thought, any thought,
(55:38):
any thought, what would it be? Oh my goodness that that's a wide
open question there, alan on thespot, just just not any thought.
Yeah, I you know, Iwant I want to say, you know,
the Miss America answer, you know, and let's have peace and love
each other. And you know that'sreally what it boiled down too. Let's
(56:00):
let's just learn to get along andlove each other and then maybe one day
we'll you know, actually get somekind of visit from the others and they
won't be so scared to show upon the scene. I really truly hope
that we can achieve that, andI hope that that is the case that
we will be invited to the Cosmictable when right, MINDI thank you so
(56:23):
much for joining tonight. I reallyappreciate it. Well, thank you Alan,
I appreciate you having me all rightawesome, and thank you all for
joining us tonight. Thank you foreveryone and chat, great questions, great
comments. This podcast is a rebroadcasttonight on the UNEX Network at two a
m. Eastern Standard time eleven pmPacific time. And I want a special
(56:44):
thank send us special thanks to RaceHobbs and Margie k because those two are
doing a phenomenal job with building thenetwork. Uh kun x dB. It's
growing so fast. It's going tobe two two years this October thirty first,
So if any of y'all want tojoin that two year celebration, they're
(57:06):
doing it on Halloween a night,so just jump over to that YouTube channel
and join in the chat, becauseI'll definitely be popping in that night for
sure. So thanks again everyone,Peace and love to you all. End
until next time, Live in themystery
You're listening to Mystic Lounge with AlanB. Smith, rebroadcast on the on
X Network Thursdays at eleven pm Pacific, Fridays at two a m. Eastern.
(00:32):
However you are and whenever you are, Welcome, good souls to Mystic
Lounge. This is Alan B.Smith, your most grateful host. We
are back live. I know it'sbeen intermittent between Mystic Lounge live streams,
but here we are, so thankyou all for joining us tonight. I
have a really really great guest,Mindy Toutfest. She is the author of
(00:57):
the book Dying to Meet Them,which we will talk about in depth tonight.
There's a great read. She's alsothe dean of Moufon University and just
really exciting news actually regarding the futureof Moufon, which I'm excited to share
for all of you who are UFOenthusiasts and investigators. I'm sure you'll appreciate
that. As usual, if youcould please subscribe comment down below, like
(01:21):
all of that really helps to supportthe channel, and click the notification bell
so you don't miss live streams likethis and the occasional pop up live stream
that we have as well, andof course coffee and UFOs. Next week
on Coffee and UFOs, same time, same place, Richard Dolan will be
joining me for a conversation about thehistory of uphology, the future disclosure,
(01:42):
and a new term that we're hearinglately, exposure. So we'll dig down
into that. I've been thinking aboutthis for a little while. Back in
the old days when Mystic Lounge usedto be called Paranormal Now, we used
to have call in lines where you, the listener, could call in live
and ask guests, question and commenton whatever the topic is. Most reactions
(02:08):
have been positive. When I asked, Hey, would you guys want to
have that back again, I've gota couple of people who said, you
know, we just like the morepodcast form, but I am really thinking
about bringing that back. So everyonein a comment tonight if you can just
let me know what you think.Do you want to see those open lines
again? Do you want to beable to call in and talk to the
guests? I really appreciate that Imiss it. You know, I come
(02:32):
from a background of improvisation and youknow, and being on stage, and
I enjoy the kind of thrill ofthe moment and just never knowing where a
conversations going and when you're live,there's no going back, there's no editing.
It just is what it is.I've always loved that format, and
yeah, I'm really tempted to bringthat back. So we'll see, and
(02:53):
I really want to hear what youhave to say regarding that. Okay,
so let's bring on our f tabguest. It's Mindy taut Fest, Dean
of Muffon University. Mindy is anear death experiencer whose heartbreaking experience led to
an up eval of her religious andspiritual beliefs while confirming for her that consciousness
(03:15):
indeed continues after death. Mindy Tautfestis a published author, speaker, television
personality, and curator of the HaydencyHughes International UFO Bureau. Mindy has worked
as an ICU nurse with ACLS certificationon assignments across the nation and has volunteered
her time to disaster relief efforts,including the Colorado Black Forest Fires, Hurricane
(03:40):
Katrina, and the devastating May third, nineteen ninety nine more Tornado. In
twenty sixteen, taut Fest suffered adissected brain aneurysm, resulting in a near
death experience. And that's what we'llbe talking about tonight. If you want
to find out more, Here isMindy that best Mindy. Welcome to Mystic
(04:02):
Lounge. How are you? Thankyou, Alan, I'm great. It's
good to see you. You too. Yeah, we had a nice chat.
I guess was it about a weekago? A couple weeks ago.
I know we end up talking forlike two hours. We did. We
were gonna do a show. ButI hadn't read your book yet, and
I really much prefer to read thematerial if I can. So I did
(04:23):
read Dying to Meet Them, andI want to say it's a great book,
but the truth is, is therea lot of hardship and tragedy in
the book. So if you canjust take us on that journey, because
really it's an expedited journey I wouldsay, of your harrowing experience to where
you are now. Yeah, well, I'm glad you got a chance to
(04:46):
read it. And I've been hearingfrom people that have read through it so
far. It was released what aboutthree weeks ago, and everyone I'm hearing
from is I can't put it down. I couldn't have put it down,
you know, I got right throughthrough it. So that's wonderful to hear
that people are actually identifying with someof the things that are in there.
So to back up what happened tome was in twenty sixteen, I was
(05:11):
living out on a three hundred acrewheat farm with my husband, and we
had moved back out there to kindof help my father in law. He's
up in his seventies and was havingtrouble, you know, taking care of
everything out there on the farm.So he was happy to have my husband
back. And so I was thereby myself that day. It was actually
the day of the presidential election betweenHillary and Trump. Excuse me, my
(05:36):
voice is still tired from the symposiumthis weekend. So I was home by
myself that day. My husband andkids had gone to school. My husband
was a Southern Baptist minister at thetime, but he was also pulling double
duty working as a teacher and coachat the local school, and so he
drove the school bus and took mykids to school with him and brought him
(05:59):
back. And so it was probablyearly afternoon, round four ish four thirty
whenever I came out to the couch, and I was looking to see if
there were any early exit polls onmy phone, and that's when I heard
this loud explosion inside my head.And my first instinct was to think that
I had been shot, because therehad been coyote hunters all around just in
(06:24):
the weeks prior, and I thought, okay, they've shot through the wall
and shot me. But I wastrying, you know, as an ICU
nurse, so I'm trying to assessthe situation, and I don't feel any
blood, and that's when I realizedthis has got to be a brain aneurism.
And I knew that I was atrisk for them because of an underlying
(06:44):
condition I had, but they didn'tthink that I had the type that caused
aneurisms. And so whenever I startedrealizing, Okay, this is really bad,
that's whenever I felt what I describedas an electrical avalanche. It started
at the top of my head andit just felt like appealing away, like
a rolling away from me from myhead to my toes, and it was
(07:08):
excruciating. And that's that's the momentI realized I'm not going to survive this.
There's no way. And I'm sittingthere looking on was sitting on my
couch, looking at my front doorwith the door wide open, waiting for
the kids to come in and givemommy hugs and kisses and tell me about
their day, and my heart justsank and I started praying, God,
(07:31):
do not let my kids find mybody. At the time, they were
five and seven years old, andI just I didn't want to be the
worst thing that ever happened to them, and so I was in deep,
remorseful prayer, you know, justthat this was happening and that may be
the ones to find me. Andas I was praying deeply, I started
(07:57):
kind of looking around. I kindof stopped and I just looked, and
I realized I was in darkness.And I didn't even realize at that point
that I was dead. My firstinstinct was like, huh, I'm not
hurting, okay. I was tryingto assess if it was dark or if
(08:18):
there was nothing around me. SoI put my hand out in front of
me, and that's what you seeon the cover of the book is the
hand and the darkness sticking out there. Because that was my first instact.
Let me look at my hand,And when I couldn't see it, I
thought, okay, well, letme try to clap my hands. Do
I have hands, and so Istarted trying to clap, and when I
did that, I realized That's whenI realized I have no form, I
(08:43):
am dead, and my heart justsunk. I started waiting at that point,
you know, Okay, well whatcomes next? You know, there
should be this tunnel of light showingup, and I'm waiting for my loved
ones to greet me. I'm waitingfor Jesus to show up. And the
more time I waited, the moreI started getting more fearful because nothing was
(09:07):
happening. And so I started going, Okay, you know, I turned
back to my Christian teaching, andI'm like, what's next. You know,
I guess I'm waiting on judgment.You know, I'm either going to
heaven or hell. And you areyou were more fundamental, right, fundamentalist?
Absolutely? Yeah. My husband wasa Southern Baptist minister and we had
traveled all over the state of Oklahomapreaching the gospel, and I was very
(09:31):
fundamental in my belief. So Iwas waiting for the Christian narrative to unfold.
And I'm waiting, you know,and I'm fearful because I'm I don't
know if I'm going to heaven orHell, because I'm not getting the tunnel
of light. I'm not you know, I'm not getting any any greeting here.
And so I start praying again,and I'm in deep prayer, asking
(09:52):
Jesus to be my righteousness and tostand in my place. I can't get
into heaven without you. And I'mfor my husband and kids. I'm wondering
if they found my body yet.And you know, I'm devastated because I've
just lost them, and I'm tryingto deal with that, and I'm trying
to deal with my eternity. I'mtrying to figure out, you know,
(10:16):
what's unfolding here. And as moretime passed, it felt like an eternity
over there. I felt like Iwas there so long, and I started
kind of filling out the area andI realized that, Okay, I felt
like I was almost an invisible boxthat was separating me from everything, and
(10:37):
I could feel God surrounding me.I mean, he was this force that
was everywhere around me, and hecontained everything, all of creation from all
time, you know, as farback you know, from creation until now.
You say, you say he,But in your book you also talk
about there being a separate male entitypresence. Are those one of the same
(11:03):
thing or separate? No, thesetwo were separate. What I call God
or the Source was this force thatjust surrounded and encompassed everything. And me
being separate from that is part ofwhat just crushed me spiritually, because I
was not allowed to be part ofeverything in existence, and there was no
(11:26):
remedy for my soul there because Iwas just my feelings. I was just
my thoughts, and there was nothing. I couldn't turn on the TV.
I couldn't even twiddle my thumbs.I couldn't do anything to take my mind
off of what was happening there.And so I started reflecting on myself.
You know, what have I done? Why am I cast out into this
(11:48):
darkness by myself. I didn't expectingthe white light and the you know,
family and friends are greeting you fromfrom their past, and that wasn't there.
I guess it must have just feltutterly lonely. It was incredibly and
fearful. I mean, I wasin a place that I had no knowledge
(12:09):
of. You know, I expectedto either be in heaven or hell,
and I was caught somewhere in between. And I describe it more later in
the book about my feelings on it. But while I was there and kind
of I didn't have a life review. I kind of more just assessed myself
(12:30):
and said, what's wrong with me? Why am I not good enough for
you? God? And I've trieddoing everything for you. You know,
I've preached your gospel, I've I'veloved you, I've done everything I can.
And it came to me that Ineeded to learn to love myself.
And as soon as that happened,that's when that mail presence showed up behind
(12:50):
me, and I couldn't see him, I sensed him there, and I
describe in the book it was almostlike a hesitant kindness that he showed to
me, like he was breaking arule to even contact to me there.
But I think my suffering was atsuch a point that he intervened and he
told me, You're not going tobe here forever. And once he did,
(13:13):
I mean instantly I was relieved becauseI knew someone was there and I
knew I wasn't going to be thereforever. And as soon as he did
that, that's when we started sailingoff to the left, and I noticed
a purple glow in the distance,and as we continued getting closer and closer
to it. It had these pinkintersecting lines in it, and where they
(13:35):
met up they glowed bright yellow.And just the closer I got, the
more love just radiated off of it. And I thought, wow, And
he said, that's the fabric ofhumanity. So that fabric of humanity you're
seeing in the void. So isthe void a negative a bad place?
(14:00):
Is it an e place? OrI don't believe so. And that's one
of the things that I had toresearch. And this was years after I
spent two years, you know,and you read through all the suffering and
what I really went through just tosurvive physically. And after that, after
I finally I spoke to my husbandabout it, we started looking at some
(14:22):
of the other religions and what theythought about places of darkness and whatnot.
I really don't believe I was inpurgatory. I wasn't under any kind of
judgment. The void held no illwill towards me. It was almost like
a place for me to purge,and it was a place just of neutrality.
(14:46):
I almost believe, mainly with whatthe Tibetan Book of the Dead says,
which is that where I was wasat the highest heaven, I was
bare in front of the God thatcreated everything. And so it it completely
changed my faith. I'm not nota Christian now that I don't have to
(15:09):
have faith. I know that Godexists, I have no doubt. Well,
so, according to many traditions,which you talk about in the book,
that in the beginning, there wasessentially a void, a nothingness or
or at best, you know,waters and no light. Right there's and
in the face of God flying overthe water and you know, bringing life
(15:33):
life and all that. And thenother traditions also have similar creation stories.
So if if the void, andI'm thinking of this because Ufie and Chat
had commented here, if the voidis a representation of what was or the
absolute sub straight like the the deepestsystems of the software, you know,
(16:00):
that's that sounds like what it soundslike the void is because you're seeing this
intersection of these lines, these energylines that are occurring there. That to
my mind, that sounds just trulyneutral and not inherently good or evil.
Right in any way? Does thatmean that heaven as people imagine heaven to
(16:23):
be or what they expected to be, is a creation itself that came from
the void. I believe so that, and I get into that in the
later chapters, and that was reallywhat kind of was impressed on my spirit,
was that I was operating outside ofany kind of construct, whether it
(16:45):
be here on this earth, whetherit be Heaven, whether it be Hell.
I was, and I say inthere, I was literally with the
great and powerful laws. I sawbehind the curtain where all of this came
from. And you bring up theother traditions where there was like none or
chaos, and all of these haveeverything springing out of nothing, out of
(17:07):
this dark void, and I believethat that's exactly where I was. And
the frightening aspect of it is.I mean, you think about people in
the Bible that fell down and worshipedangels because they were terrified, and angels
are like, don't worship me,Get up. I mean, to be
laid completely bare in front of thecreator of everything is a terrifying experience in
(17:34):
itself. But like I said,the void did not hold any ill will
towards me. I was terrified becauseI didn't know where I was, and
I didn't know how to process whatwas happening to me. What was the
drawback? How did you find yourselfbeing pulled back to consciousness. Well,
after I was shown the fabric ofhumanity, I really wanted to go to
(17:57):
it, and he had into kdid no, it's not for you,
and I believe it wasn't for me. Well, there's that's a parallel right
there, because even sometimes people whohave neared experiences where they see, you
know, a luminous white light,all encompassing white light, or a tunnel,
they're drawn to it. Right So, even though yours is the void
(18:19):
and you're seeing kind of an emptiness, a lack of light, but you
do see something and you're drawn tothat something, and that's very similar.
I almost wonder if he showed thatto me so that I would always have
that hope, because I think ifI had left there with just the darkness,
I don't know. I thank himfor what he had, the kindness
(18:42):
that he showed to me to stepforward and to comfort me and to show
me what he did. But afterhe showed that to me, immediately bam,
I was back in my body andI restarted, almost like a computer
booting up. I mean it wasa move and I was back and I
(19:02):
had when I came to I wasslumped over on the couch. I had
had a stroke. My right armwasn't working, my speech was slurred,
and I had had the aneurysm.And the actual term for what I had
is a vertebral artery dissection. Soit wasn't like a vain, you know,
ballooned out in my brain. Thiswas an artery leading up into my
(19:26):
brain that ripped in two places,that two large chunks blew out of it,
And so it was a very serioussituation. Most people do not survive
the initial dissection like I did,and you survived a long time without getting
properly diagnosed as well. Yeah,And I go into that in the book
(19:48):
where it was two years. Rightafter I came to I was able to
find my phone and I called myfather in law and he came over and
sat with me for a few fewminutes until my husband got home. And
where we lived, we were thirtymiles away from the closest hospital, and
this was a little community hospital thatwas close the closest to us, And
(20:11):
so they got me loaded up inthe car and drove me up there and
they did one scan and said,well, maybe your next shifted, and
they sent me home and I said, you've got to be kidding me.
Something really bad happened, and Ireturned to the ear the next day.
(20:32):
I went up there several more timesand they would call my neurologists, and
neurologists would say, you know,you have this type of migraine that looks
like a stroke and quit coming upto the er. And so we finally
had enough of it. We soldour house and then moved back to Oklahoma
City, where within a week Iwas in with a good doctor who did
(20:52):
the scans and said, I can'tbelieve you are alive, with your with
your background as a nurse. Whywhat was it the p BO we're ignoring?
Why wouldn't they listen to you whenyou were telling them, hey,
something's wrong here. I don't Idon't know if it's it's part of your
your case at all. I don'twant to, you know, put the
overlay that on you. But Ido know that statistically, women tend to
(21:15):
be less believed than men when they'rein hospitals when they express pain. So
I'll let you answer that, butI think we should add something to your
backstory which people didn't don't may notreally understand you growing up because you had
what's the genetic condition where you're it'scalled yeah, Ellers Dandlers syndrome, Okay,
(21:37):
eller Sdandler syndom, so that youknow, creates constantly cam pain that
you've had to deal with your entirelife. So your threshold of pain is
probably higher intolerance, not literally higher, but higher intolerance and ability to function
right the person. So when yousay I'm feeling pain, they're looking at
you, going, she doesn't looklike she's in pain. You can't hop
(21:59):
pretty much. And that's exactly it. And I even talk about that in
the book. Is you know,if I had any fault at all,
I wasn't sitting there acting like anidiot. You know, I wasn't freaking
out and screaming or anything. Iwas very calmly saying something happened. I'm
in a lot of pain. AndI had what's known as occipital neuralgia,
(22:21):
and it's actually known as the suicidedisease because it basically fried every nerve in
my skull and it felt like lavawas flowing through my skull. For two
years. It was horrific, horrificpain. And I would sit there and
just calmly tell them I'm in horrificpain, calmly, so maybe you should
(22:45):
have screamed. Yeah. Well,and part of eller stand loos having that
underlying condition. It causes chronic dislocation. So I'll wake up and my arms
dislocated and I just go about myday and I'm still back. You mean,
you know, it's part of mylife, and so I am.
I do have a high pain tolerancebecause of it, and I think that
(23:10):
that played into why they did notlisten to me. But I sat and
cried for an hour or so inthis doctor's office here at Oklahoma City,
and she told me, you know, this is an extremely rare condition that
you're talking about, you know,to have a vertebral artery dissection. And
I said, I know it happened, and thankfully she listened, and like
(23:33):
I said, she sent me infor the testing. And within a week,
I mean that I was in therefor the test and the radiologist.
The picture in the back of thebook is actually from the radiologists personal cell
phone. He took a picture ofit because he couldn't believe that I was
sitting there talking to him. Soyou had to start working now on your
(23:55):
health or a couple of years ago. Bay, it's a struggle for your
family. Excuse me. You wentto go live with some friends too,
to alleviate some of that stress fromyour family. Right, I did well,
And that was before we moved toOklahoma City. That was right after
the dissection had happened, and Iwas so terrified to be home. I
(24:17):
was passing out every day. Iwas having multiple strokes that I was told
to sit in the bathtub and justyou know, you know, just just
relax. They're not there's nothing wrong. Well, they said they were migraines.
Right, They told me it wasa migraine, and they told me
I had anxiety and to take anice warm bath. And I was having
(24:37):
multiple strokes because it was clotting off. And that's what was saving my life,
was that clotting off so I wouldn'tbleed out. But you know,
that's why I ended up moving inwith some friends and they were from church.
I had only met this family maybetwice, and we hadn't lived there
(24:59):
on the farm long, so Ididn't know him all that well. And
I called him and said, youknow, I'm terrified. And my friend
Laurie, she just said, whydon't you just stay with us. I'm
home during the day, and youknow, bless her, bless her.
I mean she invited me in.I end up standing with them for over
a month, and I mean shesat by my bedside. I was having
(25:23):
nightmares. I don't even remember shesaid I was talking about the void at
that time. I didn't think Ihad talked about it for two years,
but I guess in whatever state Iwas in, I was telling her things
because I wasn't able to fall asleep. I was so terrified at that point
because I was I say in thebook, I didn't feel like there was
(25:44):
any place for me between heaven andearth. You know, I was scared
to go back to the void.I was scared to keep living here.
I was in such terrible pain.There was no rest. We'll talk,
We'll talk about you if it wasin just a minute. But I do
want to ask sk So, howdid this affect your spiritual belief system?
(26:07):
You know, you everything you believedin was built around, you know,
your Christian belief right, what happenedto that Christian belief? Did it change?
Did you do you believe in somethingelse completely? Well? And I'm
glad you asked me that, I'lltell you. At this symposium, I
actually got kind of verbally accosted bya preacher there who was quoting scripture at
(26:32):
me and you know, casting thingsat me. And you know, I
feel sorry for people like that becauseI used to be people like that and
my as far as my beliefs now, I have such a greater love for
everybody. I have such a greaterrespect for everybody. I don't have to
(26:55):
have a belief in God because Imet him. He exists. I have
no doubt. You sink God,you think God, he, But then
you also refer to a source.Is it a masculine energy or you just
using those those words and pronounced justfrom that's from from the Bible. Yeah,
I believe more just from the Bible. And it was more just a
(27:15):
force immense that permeated everything. AndI guess to personify it, I would
put it as a he. ButI haven't lost my Christian faith, and
I still have questions about Jesus whyhe didn't show up. But I think
what was done to me there andwhat I went through there was a divine
(27:40):
appointment. I believe it was everythingthat I needed for my spirit personally to
experience to get on track to whereI needed to be. And I don't
see it as a judgment. Idon't feel like I was harshly judged or
anything like that. In fact,I was treated quite nicely there. Or
you know, but yeah, atleast you had you had a sort of
(28:03):
concierge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. And you know,
people think of like darker experiences asyou know, being negative, and that's
not necessarily the truth. It wasfrightening for me, yes, but I
see the wisdom in it too,because it was everything that I needed,
(28:25):
and I'm thankful for it today becauseI know how far it has brought my
spirit. Sorry, my voice iscutting out from the symposium still, but
I know how far it's brought myspirit to where I am today. And
I've made such wonderful friends now onthis other side of things that probably never
(28:45):
would have talked to before because Ihad such staunch beliefs against you know,
mingling with anybody different or you know, anything like that. So, well,
how did your family, how didJohn and your kids just to that?
Because oftentimes in these situations, onceone person goes through an extreme life
(29:07):
altering event, they change and therest of the people around them can't adapt
to that, or can't change withthem, can't or can't accept that at
all. So how did your familydeal with with your evolution? Well,
and that's another great question. Ican quote in the book what eight eighty
five percent of marriages end after anear death experience, and a great majority
(29:30):
of near death experiences are positive ones. People go straight to heaven. And
so how much harder for a pastor'swife to say I didn't go to heaven,
you know, and for me tofinally confront him with that. It
took two years for me to finallytell him, Look, this is what
happened, and I've got to beupfront with you. And I was scared
(29:55):
to tell him, but I knowwhat a wonder full man I'm married too.
That's why I married him. Andhe said, we'll figure this out
together. And he did. Imean, he held my hand through the
whole thing. He found Ian's,which is the International Association for Near Death
Studies, and he signed us upfor our first meeting, and we read
(30:18):
together, we grew together, andwe walked through this whole thing together.
He did never, he never leftmy side. And let me just you
know, Wallow and my sadness orfear alone. You know, he sat
by me night after night, andwe made it through together. And I
wish that everybody had that experience tohave a spouse that completely believed them.
(30:45):
But my husband knew me. Heknows I'm not a liar, he knows
I'm not one to tell tall tales, And for me to say something like
this, he knew that it wasbased in truth and that there was something
more for us to learn out ofthis together. Do you still feel like
you're learning? Absolutely? Where?I never stop? Yeah, where are
(31:07):
you in that? In that process? Like if you just look at yourself
right now spiritually, where where areyou? I just think that I've grown
to a more open acceptance. AndI know that that might be hard for
like a Christian to hear. Youknow, if I could hear if I
heard myself today, you know,if I heard myself back then what I'm
(31:29):
saying today, I'd be like,oh, she's going down the wrong road,
you know. But I know whatI've experienced now, and I just
think that I've learned more acceptance andopenness and appreciation for everything that God has
created and everyone that God has created. So I see the purpose in everybody,
(31:49):
right, and the gratitude for thethings that aren't messed up right,
like right, because there's plenty ofthat that is messed up. Right.
Well, that's true, because youknow, Dark Knight of the Soul and
all that. But you know it'sI do come often from an atheistic point
(32:12):
of view, which is which isn'tto say that I don't believe that there's
a super consciousness. I do believethat. I don't know for a fact
that's what I believe, But youknow, I do wonder if there is
a singular consciousness in the way thatwe think as like an individual human.
That's where I have a problem withtrying to understand like all the pain that
(32:32):
that's caused. You know, LikeI can accept that pain and suffering is
a part of life and it canmake you a better person, it can
help you grow, it can makeyou stronger. I accept those truths,
but I don't know if I canaccept that someone designed it so that I
have to, you know, suffer. You know that that children have to
(32:55):
suffer, that there's cancers and diseases. That's where I get a little where
are you with that? Well?I still absolutely believe in free will,
and I think that that's integral inwhat we are doing here. We have
choices to make, and sometimes people'schoices affect us negatively. Is sometimes our
choices affect others negatively? Is itfair? Absolutely not? But I think
(33:21):
that that's part of our learning processand I think that it does. It
serves purpose in helping us grow.And I speak that from you know,
literally dying and going through that pain, and I see purpose in it.
I can't imagine what you went through. That's it's difficult to conceive. But
(33:44):
in some of your descriptions of whatyou were talking about during the book reminded
me of some of my own psychedelicexperiences as well. This is a comment
from UFI. Some perceive the quotecreator God as a consciousness that is present
at all points in time, space, to mention, etc. Yeah,
(34:04):
well is that how you perceived it? I do to some degree. And
in chapter nine I talk about theabsolute and that comes from the Gateway process
that the government was doing back inthe nineteen eighties. And whenever I read
about that, I said, ohmy gosh, this is exactly this is
describing exactly where I was and whatI went through. That's what I had
(34:27):
come back with and was trying toformulate into you know, words, because
I'm not a quantum physicist. Idon't know you know what I mean that
that's way over my head, andso a lot of Chapter nine is way
over my head. That was thingsthat were impressed on my soul while I
was over there, that that wasoperating in the absolute outside of time and
(34:52):
space, where it was just thebeginning basically speaking of all these programs in
the past, and the government experimentedwith not just that government, other governments
as well, with psychic abilities andsuch. If they were so effective,
why don't they continue those programs?Now it used to say they're not.
(35:16):
It's right, all right. Ithink they were highly successful, especially with
training psychic spies and everything, andwith the Gateway process. What they were
doing. They were using the hymnissincprocess from the Monroe Institute, and they
were utilizing different frequencies which they wouldaim on each side of your brain and
(35:38):
it would synchronize into you know,put you into delta waves or theta waves
or something like that, and theywere training the soldiers how to then utilize
that and to enter into other dimensionsto contact entities there and get information from
(35:59):
them and bring it back here.And so that's exactly a good description of
what I experienced over there. IfI wanted to go back psychically and visit
the void, I could contact thatmil entity that was there with me and
get information from him and bring itback. It's exactly what our government was
(36:19):
doing. But way back in thenineteen eighties, that would be have you
tried that? You have you actuallytried maybe contacting I started going through you
can find the gateway process online andso I went through about half of it,
and then the pandemic happened and wesold our house and moved and everything.
So I never picked it back up. But I kind of started thinking
(36:42):
on that track, what if Idid? You know, I know that
with meditation, I'm very easily ableto send my consciousness back over there.
I think that it's still entangled withthe void to some degree, right,
and speaking to Ufi's and earlier,and what you just said this when you
(37:04):
were in the void and you wereseeing this kind of like nexus point,
it seems like, or origin pointor whatever it is. If time truly
according to you know, physics ortheoretical physics, I should say, if
time really isn't linear, right,it's all existing simultaneously, but it just
(37:25):
kind of hard for our human brainsto wrap around. But if that's true,
then is it possible when you werein the void, that you were
actually in the beginning absolutely of creationitself? Absolutely, and that that's what
I was getting at. It created, what encompassed that, that spirit there,
(37:50):
the source was everything throughout all time. I believe I was at the
beginning and the end. I wasin the presence of it all, and
that's what I was saying. Iwas laid bare in front of the Alpha
and Omega. I was there infront of all of it. And while
you're over there time, I mean, there's a progression of events in a
(38:15):
linear fashion, but you're operating outsideof that as well. It's almost like
you can see everything around you,you can feel everything around you all at
once. Everything is in that momentand it's everything. It's it's hard to
put into human words, really,So let's talk about UFOs, right because
(38:36):
we Okay, that's something we definitelycan say. We haven't a comment because
I haven't had a near death experience. Knock on, would how did this
lead to your I mean, youwent all in right, like it wasn't
just a little by little graduate likeyou like, it's amazing what you've accomplished.
(38:57):
So tell us that that point.Yeah. Yeah. And well,
after a couple of years, youknow, I had told my husband about
the near death experience and everything.After we'd moved back here to Oklahoma City,
I ended up having another tear inmy artery and I ended up back
in the hospital. I was inthe neuro step down for a few days,
and my blood pressure was hovering fortyover twenty. I mean, I
(39:21):
was not doing well. And sowe started making my funeral arrangements. I
was telling him, Mom has aburial plot over here, and you know,
I want this person to step inand be a female presence in our
children's lives, and you know,just making all of the terrible arrangements you
never want to do when you're inyour thirties. And out of that,
(39:45):
he said, well, let's let'splan something fun. You know, what's
on the bucket list. What doyou want to do? And I said,
I want to go to Roswell.So he said okay, So he
planned it out and that summer wewent to the Roswell Festival. It was
twenty nineteen, and we took thekids and we had a great time.
And out of that I met KathleenMartin and she had started the experience or
(40:08):
resource team from mouf On and youknow, just driving home, I was
like, you know, wouldn't itbe so cool to like sit in on
mouf on meetings and hear what theytalk about. And so I called headquarters
and they put me in touch withDoug Wilson, who was the director of
investigations at the time, and Italked to Doug. He was so patient
(40:32):
with me. He talked to mefor over two hours, and I said,
Doug, you know, I reallyreally want to investigate and he said,
we need people in Oklahoma. AndI was like, well, I'm
not in the best help. I'mstill passing out and I'm in out of
the hospital. And he was like, well, if you really want to,
we'll give you what you can handle. Get most of it's online when
you first start. And I said, okay, you know, this is
(40:55):
a dream come true. I've alwayswanted to do this. So I did.
I jumped in both feet and andyou know, became an investigator and
within a year I was state director, and then within another couple of years,
here I'm working on mouf On Universityand heading up training worldwide. So
I mean I really jumped in andit really kind of served as a catalyst
(41:19):
to my healing. I mean Ineeded something to grab onto, and I
was so excited to be a partof move On and to have that opportunity.
It really drove me. Each morningI woke up excited ready to see
what new cases came in. Andyou know, why do you think there's
such a crossover between your more mysticalexperience, right and the subject like you
(41:45):
uphology. We see a lot ofpeople who have a duel or multi disciplined
interest paranormal, UFO metaphysics. Well, well even see that with Bigelow.
Now Bigelow went from being out atSkinwalker Ranch and now he's throwing all of
his money behind near death research.So you know, obviously he's found some
(42:08):
kind of connection there's right. Yeah, Yeah, But that came along as
I started working cases, and themore I got in the higher level cases
I was doing. When I gotto category three and was talking with adductees,
I started going, Holy cow,these people sound like me. These
(42:29):
people have had a spiritually transformative eventout of their contact encounter, and so
I started taking note of it,and I thought, okay, am I
just making a connection with there isnone, But I just wanted to keep
an eye and I decided to readCommunion by Whitley Strieber, and that's what
(42:49):
sealed the deal for me. Hehad talked about a night when he came
back from walking around town and hewas really wrestling with what had been going
on, and he talked about thisforce that kind of consumed him and it
circled him, and it knew himthroughout all of his time, and he
ends it was saying, are wejust on a stage? And I thought,
(43:12):
oh my god, this is exactlywhat I got out of my near
death experience. And how can hesound so much like me being an abductee?
And so I started looking. Isaid, Okay, if I'm noticing
this, someone else's smarter than mehas noticed this before. And that's when
I found doctor Kenneth Ring and theOmega Project where he had carried out this
(43:35):
battery of questions back in the earlynineties through the University of Connecticut, and
he was comparing near death experiencers toUFO experiencers, and he ended up identifying
what he called the encounter prone personalityand then also a set of after effects
which he saw in both types ofexperiencers. And so it really kind of
(44:00):
solidified that there is something running alongsideboth of these types of experiencers. I
wanted to ask you about that becauseyou talk about that in the book.
How do the experience or prone personalityif no one knew anything else? It
just sounds like a psychological descriptive,like an experience that someone has psychologically,
(44:25):
So how do we know that it'snot a psychological purely a psychological or current
currents within one's own mind versus somethingelse other, an outside. Yeah,
that's one of the things that doctorRing really wanted to rule out, was
is this someone that is fantasy prone? And some of the questions he asked
(44:49):
served to rule that out. Sothese people weren't people that were outside battling
dragons or you know, you know, imagining things. And and you know,
I am not an imaginative person.I can't come up with a story,
you know, to save my life. But you can write though,
you can definitely write, well,thank you, I can I can write
(45:10):
about what I've experienced. But I'mand I even talk about that in the
book, where you know, myhusband would have to tell my kids bedtime
stories because I literally just I'd belike Mindy and Juan went to the grocery
store. Come on, mom,a little color in the voice, I
know. So, I mean,you're just as a natural person speaking and
(45:32):
talking. You've got you know,great energy and cadence and and and all
that. So I think that maybe, yeah, you don't. You're not
going to write the next trilogy ofLord of the Rings, but but you
are a good messenger, I thinkfor I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah,
And while and I'm so excited aboutdoctor Ring allowing me to share some
(45:55):
of his research in the book,because he really he was a trailblazer back
then. I mean, he laida foundation that I think people are just
starting to catch on too. Withall of these similarities. And you were
asking about the encounter prone personality.One of the things that he identified was
that these people as children learn howto dissociate. And it wasn't that they
(46:20):
just associated, but they dissociated tothe exclusion of everything in their environment.
So they were fully immersed within theirmind. Almost in a meditative state where
they were contacting entities in other realms. It displayed very differently from people that
are extremely imaginative, so he wasable to rule out that this was an
(46:45):
imaginative thing and that this was moresomething to do with how our brains operate
to be able to put over there. Just like someone that's naturally inclined to
be psychic, they have something,you know, different, They're not imagining
things, they're actually contacting some kindof information out there. And it's much
(47:07):
the same thing with the encounter pronepersonality. So that that leads into why
some people die and they don't havenear death experiences. They don't necessarily have
that encounter prone personality to be ableto bring that back. Have you ever
investigated on your own a UFO reportthat reminded you of, you know,
(47:30):
some kind of consciousness altering experience thatwould be a parallel and near death experience,
or a psychedelic experience, or ora mystical dream spontaneous dream state.
Well, there was one moof oncase that I investigated, and it was
(47:50):
an art case and I can't revealeverything about it since it is very secretive.
But this woman I just want to. I just want to reframe that
and not secretive, but people peopleasked to be information anonymous. Yes I
yes, yes, but yes,I'm not going to reveal anything about her,
(48:14):
but she she she became one ofmy favorite people to talk to after
investigating her case because she was transformedevery bit as much as I was from
an encounter that she had with acraft and the things that she went through.
(48:34):
She was a completely different person comingout of that. And I just
saw the transformation that she encountered.She told me about how she was before
and who I was talking to todaywas not the same person. And so
I again, that was one ofthe cases that really solidified to me that
(48:55):
there is something here underlying that ischanging people. And doctor Ring actually came
to the conclusion that he believed itwas a new Omega prototype where it was
almost like a shamanistic journey and it'susing, you know, being used whether
through et contact or through near deathexperiences, that this is being used to
(49:16):
almost evolve the human race and tomake us more open and more loving and
more accepting of each other. We'vegot to quit fighting each other. We've
got to quit we don't have anyhope so I guess the idea here is
is that if they just come down, let's say they're extraterrestrials or interdimensionals,
(49:37):
whatever, if they just kind ofimpose themselves obviously directly into our affairs,
the thinking here is that wouldn't actuallyhelp us evolve, because if that were
the case, they would just doit right, right. I mean,
maybe maybe they don't want to comevisit us, but I mean we're one.
(50:00):
We're talking of these entities from otherplaces. There are so many outlets
where we could be seeing them comingfrom. I believe a lot of them
are interdimensional. I think there's agood good basis for maybe thinking that some
of them are coming from Inner Earth, and then there is good evidence for
(50:20):
them coming from off planet. Sowe may be seeing a mixture of some
of these things. And not everybody'sfriendly, so we you know, there's
a lot to wage through. It'snot just one thing that's coming here.
Yeah, there's a lot to uncoverwith it, right, and everyone has
researchers have their own perspectives, LikeDavid Jacobs has a much more dire perspective,
(50:43):
and then you have other other researcherswho are like, that's generally pretty
benign in your investigations. Do youwhat is your best guess as to what
these UFOUAP encounters are or maybe theirorigin, best best guest, best guests.
(51:05):
Well, that's the million dollar questionhere. I like I said,
I think that it's no money onthe table, no money on the table.
But if you just had to throwone idea out there, yeah,
Well, and I'm very big onthe interdimensional hypothesis. I mean, because
I encountered an interdimensional being and Iwas able to come back, I see
(51:29):
very good evidence for why they wouldbe able to come over here and pop
into our existence. I think thatthat's some of the advanced technology that we're
seeing. It's almost like being ina video game, code something in and
there. It's popped into that reality. And again that's what I get into
(51:50):
in chapter nine, where I literallycame back feeling like I had entered the
matrix. And so I think thata lot of this is simulation. We
can pop things in and out,and I believe that they're utilizing some of
that. But that's not to saythat's the only thing that we're seeing.
Did you get to see Avey Loebespeak at the symposium? I didn't get
(52:13):
to see anybody speak at the Iplan on going back and watching all of
them this next week. Yeah.Where where are we with the training program
in mouf On because I know thatyou are making some updates, some upgrades.
Yes, yeah, and this lastyear we've been plugging away. Mouf
(52:37):
On University was the brain child ofKin Saint John about fifteen years ago and
it was built and it was leftstagnant basically, and that's what all of
our field investigators have been going throughthe training on there. Well, about
a year ago I got with oneof our board of directors, Terry Lynkhill,
who's one of my very very bestfriends within, and I said,
(53:00):
why can't we film something and stickit up there, you know that's kind
of more updated. And that turnedinto a year long process where we've now
completely revamped it. We've gone overto a whole new platform and we have
built there are videos for every aspectof the investigation. So we're looking at
(53:22):
we're showing people how to investigate theastronomical objects. We're showing people how to
investigate flight radar, and how tolook at the media reports and you know,
just every aspect of what we doto be able to rule out the
false positives and misidentifications, and sothere's hours and hours of instruction on there
(53:44):
and here. Within the next twothree weeks, it'll be launched in tandem
with our new investigation form. Sonormally for thirty is what we work our
investigations on. That's been completely revampedand updated to our newest capabilities, and
so it'll go hand in hand withthe new training. And the training will
(54:07):
be only for field investigators. Soif someone's interested in neufology and they're wanting
to get involved, they can alwaysgo join move On and talk to the
State director and become a field investigator, go through the exam, and once
they pass that exam, then they'llbe able to go on to move On
University and get all of that wonderfultraining that we've been working on so hard
(54:30):
for the last year. So Iwas able to give a little preview of
it there at the State director meetingat the symposium, and it was overwhelming.
The state directors received it just withopen arms. They're so excited about
it, and so that got mereally excited to see them so happy about
what we've done. Because we've workedour tails off and I'm really hoping it'll
(54:53):
set a new standard within move Onand just within ufology as a whole.
That's awesome because it really is neededneeds needless to say it was dated,
you know to a degree, willsay it was it was, and and
now I get to go through itagain, which is kind of cool.
And so brush up on some informationand I'm sure there'll be some new information.
(55:15):
But yeah, I mean having havingyou know, more up to date
and you know, video technology fortraining. I think it's fantastic. Yes,
So I encourage anyone who's just interestedto go check out move On for
sure. Mindy your website is Mindytoutfest dot com. You can get her
book there. If you could leaveus with any thought, any thought,
(55:38):
any thought, what would it be? Oh my goodness that that's a wide
open question there, alan on thespot, just just not any thought.
Yeah, I you know, Iwant I want to say, you know,
the Miss America answer, you know, and let's have peace and love
each other. And you know that'sreally what it boiled down too. Let's
(56:00):
let's just learn to get along andlove each other and then maybe one day
we'll you know, actually get somekind of visit from the others and they
won't be so scared to show upon the scene. I really truly hope
that we can achieve that, andI hope that that is the case that
we will be invited to the Cosmictable when right, MINDI thank you so
(56:23):
much for joining tonight. I reallyappreciate it. Well, thank you Alan,
I appreciate you having me all rightawesome, and thank you all for
joining us tonight. Thank you foreveryone and chat, great questions, great
comments. This podcast is a rebroadcasttonight on the UNEX Network at two a
m. Eastern Standard time eleven pmPacific time. And I want a special
(56:44):
thank send us special thanks to RaceHobbs and Margie k because those two are
doing a phenomenal job with building thenetwork. Uh kun x dB. It's
growing so fast. It's going tobe two two years this October thirty first,
So if any of y'all want tojoin that two year celebration, they're
(57:06):
doing it on Halloween a night,so just jump over to that YouTube channel
and join in the chat, becauseI'll definitely be popping in that night for
sure. So thanks again everyone,Peace and love to you all. End
until next time, Live in themystery
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