Joining me is Doug Hajicek, producer of SASQUATCH: LEGEND MEETS SCIENCE. Doug is a wildlife researcher, technology inventor, and producer of MONSTER QUEST. Doug tells the story of his own encounters with a suspected Bigfoot; and speaks on the compelling evidence that exists today.
Doug Hajicek has had a very successful national television career spanning over 30 years. His accomplishments are also many in the scientific world. His firsts even include building the camera system that filmed the first free swimming giant squid well over 54' feet long living in its natural habitat. https://hangar1publishing.com/products/legend-meets-science-ii
He has also designed many hidden cameras to spy on bears and other mammals. He is also the Producer for the hit long running TV series "MonsterQuest" for the History Channel. Before this he produced many documentaries and other TV series for Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, Discovery Health, TLC, OLN, NBC, CBS, PBS. He recently co-authored a scientific paper July 2020 in the journal of Animals on the birth of black bears and their care.
PLEASE HELP THE CHANNEL GROW • SUBSCRIBE, like, comment, and click the Notification Bell so you don’t miss a show.
Thank you! https://www.youtube.com/mysticlounge
LINK TREE: https://linktr.ee/CoffeeandUFOs
HALF LIGHT documentary: https://tubitv.com/movies/678744/half-light
Check out other fantastic Un-X shows at https://www.unxnetwork.com/shows
Doug Hajicek has had a very successful national television career spanning over 30 years. His accomplishments are also many in the scientific world. His firsts even include building the camera system that filmed the first free swimming giant squid well over 54' feet long living in its natural habitat. https://hangar1publishing.com/products/legend-meets-science-ii
He has also designed many hidden cameras to spy on bears and other mammals. He is also the Producer for the hit long running TV series "MonsterQuest" for the History Channel. Before this he produced many documentaries and other TV series for Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, Discovery Health, TLC, OLN, NBC, CBS, PBS. He recently co-authored a scientific paper July 2020 in the journal of Animals on the birth of black bears and their care.
PLEASE HELP THE CHANNEL GROW • SUBSCRIBE, like, comment, and click the Notification Bell so you don’t miss a show.
Thank you! https://www.youtube.com/mysticlounge
LINK TREE: https://linktr.ee/CoffeeandUFOs
HALF LIGHT documentary: https://tubitv.com/movies/678744/half-light
Check out other fantastic Un-X shows at https://www.unxnetwork.com/shows
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
You're listening to Mystic Lounge with AlanB. Smith, rebroadcast on the on
X Network Thursdays at eleven pm PacificFridays at two a m. Eastern.
(00:31):
However you are, and whenever youare, Welcome, good souls to Mystic
Lounge. Is Alan B. Smith, your most grateful host live with you
here on the Mystic Lounge YouTube channel. If you're a fan of this show
and of the other podcast on thischannel, which is Coffee and UFOs,
please subscribe, like comment down belowand share. And if you listen to
(00:51):
these podcasts on your podcast platform,please rate and review them there. I'd
really appreciate that. Tonight, wehave a very cool guest. His name
is Doug Hagesk. He's a producerof Monster Quest and his latest documentary Sasquatch
Legend Meets Science two. We'll getto Doug in just a moment. If
(01:11):
you like this show, you canfind many other fascinating paranormal and uphological cryptozoological
shows on the UNEX networked It's unexnetworkdot com. And yeah, Race Hobbs
Margie k who the two of them, you know, working side by side,
really got that thing up and runningand it's impressive. It's growing so
(01:33):
fast, so please go check themout as well. And yeah, if
you're a YouTube follower, please subscribeand click the notification bell because we don't
want to miss any pop up episodeslike tonight because it is a Tuesday night
and normally the show is on Thursdaynight. So thank you so much for
jumping in on this random show,all right. Doug is a wildlife researcher,
(01:57):
technology inventor with a very successful televisioncareer spanning over thirty years. His
scientific accomplishments include building the camera systemthat filmed the first free swimming giant squid,
well over fifty four feet long,living in its natural habitat. He
also is one of the originators ofreality television with Mysterious Encounters. He has
(02:21):
also designed many hidden carameers to spyon bears and other mammals. He is
also the producer for the hitlong runningTV series and Monster Quest for the History
Channel. Before this, he producedmany other documentaries and other TV series for
Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, TLC, and more. Doug is now working
(02:42):
in preproduction on Sasquatch Legend Meets Scienceto Doug, Welcome to Mystic Lounge.
How are you hey, how areyou doing here? Hellen? Oh good,
thanks so very much for coming on. Yeah, yeah, So what's
my pleasure? Right? So we'regonna have to just, I think,
go back in time. It's awhile since I've done a Bigfoot episode or
you know, crypto. It's beenat least a couple of months. So
(03:06):
what got you interested in cryptozoology inthe first place. Well, um,
I was interested in it from thefirst time I saw a Boy's Life magazine
in our elementary school library had astill picture of the Paterson Gimblin creature Patty,
and I saw that and I justlooked at the you know, the
(03:29):
photos inside, and I went threesecond rule, that thing looks real.
I'm eight years old. Flash forward, excuse me, I'm gonna drink a
water. Flash forward, I'm deerhunting. I'm in a deer stand and
all of a sudden, I meanstill dark, I have this overwhelming stink
(03:50):
that just overpowers me. And Iremember, you know, covering my face
and I can't breathe, it's sobad. I'm in the forest, you
know, there as fresh as secondsearlier. And then all of a sudden,
I hear chess beating and I alreadyyou know, I knew it wasn't
a grouse because the ground shook,even my tree stands shook from this chess
(04:12):
beating. And that was really interestingand went away just as quick as it
came. But we're got really interesting. I went back to camp to meet
my uncle and my cousins and mybest friend. Every one of them had
the same story, and we wereall about a quarter of a mile apart,
(04:33):
so they all heard the same chessbeating to stink everything. And the
vibration that's actually almost the most impressiveto mecause it just as a human,
if we pound our chest, Idon't expect you to feel it very far.
Wow. So so that was justa gray basket experience, right,
(04:53):
but you know, it goes inthe ear subconscious and it just kind of,
oh, maybe these things are real, you know, and you live
in Minnesota because it was my cousinMark, that my cousin Scott that goes.
I think that was a big footAnd I didn't even know, you
know, there's like big foots,and you know, Minnesota thought it was
a California thing. So then flashforward, I'm up in the Arctic.
(05:16):
I'm doing Wilife Research, and wewere trying to get footage of these giants,
hundred and hundred and fifty year oldlake trout that can get up to
like six feet long seventy two incheslong. And I had seen one right
on a previous trip, and soI was up there and we had to
(05:39):
take a peabreak because it was reallykind of whinny this one day. Pull
up to the sand Esker, kindof a sandy area. It was just
beautiful, almost like the Caribbean.We pull up and here there are tracks
coming out of the water, right, because there were islands all over in
the water was quite shallow. They'revery clear and very shallow. You can
(06:00):
almost picture the Caribbean. I mean, that's exactly what it looked like.
But you're, you know, you'reway up in Northwest Territories, right.
So we follow these footprints and theylook human but they're huge. And then
you can see the clearly the toesin the sand and then they go up
into the pea gravel quite deep,and we couldn't even dent it, you
know, because we tested it rightaway because it literally was raining that day.
(06:24):
It was just drizzling, you know, so the ground was moist.
We should have been able to dentit had that been any kind of human.
And so we just kept following.The tracks go up into the into
the moss, and then the littlestand of stunted black spruce trees and on.
They're like seven foot eight foot sixfoot tall, but they're maybe a
(06:46):
hundred years old. But it's socold up there that you know, the
growing season is very very short.So, um, here's where it got
me, Allan. There's the footprintsled up to this tree trunk. There
was a footprint right in front ofthe tree trunk three inches away, and
there was one directly behind it.That means that whatever it was stepped over
(07:11):
the tree. And that's where mybuddy who was with and he was a
journalist, he says to me,we need to go now. Yeah,
I'd be feeling the same, yeahexactly, And I'm like, I want
to see where these tracks go.So we talked everybody into going through this
little steaming little forest came out poppedout. Now it's miles of tundra,
(07:36):
you know, just moss, andyou can see those indents in the moss
going off into the horizon. Sonot many people would follow the tracks.
Why did you feel the desire,that the impulse to do that. Well,
I mean I was curious, youknow, because of my previous experience.
(07:57):
You know, once again I'd neverthought a bigfoot being in the Arctic.
But then you know, I getback. Oh, by the way,
we did ask a floodplane pilot totake up because I thought, well,
if there's a creature walking and there'sno tree cover, we should be
able to find it, follow thetracks, find it and film it because
(08:18):
I had, you know, broadcastquality cameras with me, and the guy
thought we were playing a hoax onhim, a camp owner, and we
you know, it was a tentcamp. We go in, we go
in his tent, and we triedto explain this story, which sounds crazy.
He thought we were playing a camptrick on him, hoax I could
(08:39):
pull out of him. Yeah,I mean I could imagine him thinking that
because if if that's his camp andhe's never seen a big foot, suddenly
you guys happened to see one.I can understand that. Sure. So
he threw his clipboard against the sidewall. It was like, okay, that's
our cue to get out. Andso that was the end of it,
I mean, you know, andI had filmed on the tracks. I
(09:00):
had a RICTUUS stand up that didrun on the local news when I got
home. U And of course Ididn't know they're going to recycle the tapes,
you know, I just I hadnever really thought about that. It
was kind of green. But theyrecycled those tapes and they didn't even save
it. Yeah, so it's ona beta beta SP tape and they just
(09:22):
recycled them. It's the news tothem, It's just a news package,
a bunch of BS. So thefootage is gone. But how come why
does this happen, Doug? Whywhy is there so many fotages that have
gone gone? I don't know,you know, And I just, um,
I remember, I did make aVHS copy and I of the beta,
(09:43):
the BETASP tape, and I sentit to Peter Byrne. And so
if anybody has a copy of thattape, it's Peter still unless Peter throw
it away or recycled the VHS tape. But he got back to me and
he said, yeah, there's beenreports that far north. You know,
he was sighting some sightings back inthe eighteen hundreds, and a little more
(10:05):
research Eventually I got a hold ofMatt Moneymaker. Matt was super nice and
just I could, you know,sit there on the phone for hours with
him. He answered all my questionsand I went, this information needs to
be on TV. I didn't knowthey were everywhere, woods, water,
nails and their sightings all over thecountry, and you know, he was
just spouting all these I guess databased on you know, his database that
(10:31):
he was collecting. And so nextyou know, mean mattered becoming good friends.
Matt flies up and we started workingon on dock and we ended up
pitching it getting turned down, andfinally John four and over at Discovery Channel
said hey, I want this.I'll take it, and then I but
he goes, he goes, canyou do this? I want this on
(10:52):
thirty five millimeter film? So Ihad to shoot this dock on thirty five
millimeter film, which has a wholenother or layer of you know, the
negatives and getting them developed and notknowing whether he actually got anything, you
know, and all these interviews andshoots that you're going all over too.
So anyhow, in the end itturned out great. We didn't have any
(11:13):
footage that even got left. Iused every damn inch of footage because I
had everything really planned out. Andthen um, about two or three days
before it was gonna run, Allenhe calls and he goes, well,
it's too bad. We can't runyour dock. And I'm like why,
and he goes, well, thathironymous thing, you know, that guy
(11:33):
that came forward and said that hewas behind the whole hoax. It's all
solved now, so we can't runyour dock. And I'm like, what
do you know what I mean?And I educated him, you know,
and he's like, oh, oh, oh, okay. But that's how
many people just bought that story,just hook line and saying the whole Bickwood
(11:54):
mystery was just explained. So hewas gonna throw away a science comentary out
full of evidence and full of youknow, scientists conclusion saying this is real
based on the evidence that we hadpresented. He's gonna throw that out based
on some guy and it just saidI was the guy in the suit.
Well, so we know that that'swhat hoaxers do. And uh, the
(12:18):
bunkers jump on that, and andbecause of it it puts a stain on
the subject. Then the scientists areare afraid to come back to, especially
journalists, and uh, you know, I'm starting to see a little bit
of that now with the uap UM, but it hasn't hasn't permeated yet back
into the mainstream news. We're talkingabout the backtracking. Yes, yeah,
(12:41):
yeah, so you know right right, Um, So I'm I'm happy that
uap you slash UFO has has sustainedsome credibility, which is pretty impressive.
How do how do we get Bigfoot? How do we get it decrypted to
really sustained credibility? Well, Ithink that, um, based on all
of the evidence that I've collected,based on the scientists that I know are
(13:05):
going to be analyzing. In thetypes of evidence, many types are brand
new, never before looked at,thought about, or seen. You know,
I don't know if you're familiar.For instance, there's a thing I
call elba Vernix that was named elbaVernix by Shelley Covington, Montana. And
(13:28):
we put our heads together because allof a sudden it hit me all these
handprints oliver on car windows, camperswindows, sliding glass windows that have been
being collected to photo photography. Holyall these years. It wasn't dust.
It's actually a substance that they're leavingbehind, and I thought, oh,
(13:54):
maybe the chemical compounds can be analyzed. Oh and then I did a little
research. Next thing, you know, I find out the gorillas have been
done, the rangon tangs have beendone, chims have been done, blah
blah blah, and they all havea very unique signature, every one of
them. So if we can getthe Sasquatch see them done and it has
(14:18):
a very unique signature, it's prettyhard to fake chemical evidence, especially when
you can submit numbers of samples.But here's the beautiful part. I can
instruct any scientists to get their ownevidence, probably within a month. Twelve
by twelve plexiglass shiny glossy plexiglass leftin the woods in a bigfoot known area.
(14:45):
If they see it, they're goingto touch it because they have this.
I believe they have a They're verytactile. They like to touch glass,
smooth paint on cars. It's justsomething I've noticed, you know,
just kind of like, well,how can we full of these things.
They're tough and they're very intelligent,but they can't seem to resist touching things
purely they think that's okay, goahead, Yeah, Well it's almost like
(15:07):
a child, right, like touchingsmooth surfaces like that you don't find in
the woods. Right, that's exactlyokay, So you're you just connected your
own dots before I said anything.So that was your own connection. And
now you know exactly what was goingthrough mind is exactly what I did,
and I went, oh, thisstuff's not available. You're curious because to
(15:31):
them they might look like water ifthey're gonna just because they seem to love
water. So I'm thinking they eitherthink it's water and they're just really curious,
like how can they rewater? Standingupright? And so they see that
and they could probably maybe see theirreflection in it, which could be you
know, a curiosity factor. Butthere's nothing smooth in the forest. And
(15:54):
so there you go, right right, Like I had a little kid over
here the other day, you know, a nephew, and he's touching the
carpet and touching because it's not hishouse, right, carpet's different, furniture
is different. He's touching everything justbecause he wants to feel the material.
It's kind of an inboard. Youknow. This is something primates do,
(16:15):
right, So does that mean it'sa juvenile or do you think this is
a common behavior? No, no, no, no, I think it's
just a common adulce. Jews are, you know, all the way up
because they seem to have some curiosity, which is their only the only weakness
I can find, and they havea lot of fear. I think,
(16:37):
I think they live their life basedon fear. And I really mum like
to do a comparative with black bears. Black bears evolved with the like sabertooth
tiger, and so they evolved byby being afraid of everything. You know,
black bears generally are. They're afraidof their own shadow. You know,
I've worked really close with them,and I know, you know,
(17:00):
there's a few situations where we've evengrabbed the cubs right from the mothers,
wild mothers, and they won't evendefend their own cubs because they're too afraid
to that. That's see, now, I would never risk that. Well
I didn't, and you know it'sit's it's in fact, I think we
got the first time I was everdone on TV. I filmed it m
(17:22):
I worked with doctor Lynn Rogers andhe was like, well do we do
it? And I'm like, yeah, let's do it. So he just
greach it and just grabbed him awayfrom the mom, and she just kind
of looked a little nervous, butshe didn't do anything, never lunched,
never attacked. And he had hadsimilar experiences trying to tag, you know,
bears, and he just kind ofnoticed that they would never defend their
(17:47):
cubs. Yeah. So um,but I think Bigfoot's kind of evolved in
a very similar way of being afraidof humans. Like bears are afraid of
almost everything, I think bigfoots areafraid of almost everything too. I think
they operate on fear. And peopledon't get the wall. They're a giant
down ten foot eight foot ape,giant muscles. Why would they operate on
(18:07):
fear? White the black bears.A black bear can just tear me apart
in a second, but yet they'reafraid of me. I don't know.
That was definitely a Steve Irwin momentfor sure. Not many people would do
that either. So we also justgive an example of all bears are very
(18:27):
a timid um. We've radio coloredbears and once again we've filmed the first
time I've ever been done wild blackbear gave her a little distraction of a
little food, just a distractor andput a leather radio collar on her and
bolted it on and wrenched it andbolted it on while she just ate this
(18:48):
food. Now, this was awild black bear, and I filmed it
for Animal Planet, and they couldn'tcome. They couldn't believe it. They
just could not believe it. Andso we you knows, I filmed it
and they gave us the show rightaway that I wanted to do based on
um doing research on trust um.And so that's kind of how I've evolved
(19:10):
into my ways of thinking a littlebit. It's through wildlife research and understanding.
You know, big predators can bevery afraid. Yeah, I mean
that makes sense. It's a sensibleconnection. There. Have you ever endeavored
to in the put a camera onsome other wild animal and the hope that
the animal itself would run up againsta big foot or Yeah? In fact,
(19:37):
it's it's in our in our fieldresearch. We're planning on putting a
basically a cardboard caller that will getwet and fall off very quickly. You'll
stay on maybe for a week,and we're gonna we're gonna put it on
one, two, three, orfour coyotes that live in a big Foot
area that I know, there's there'sthese creatures around based you know, so
(20:00):
many sightings, and I believe there'sa symbiotic relationship, whether it's a planned
one or an unintentional symbiotic relationship,like for instance, ravens help wolves.
You know, they fly around adeer that's maybe injured or diners just died,
and then the wolves go in andfinish it off, and they'll literally
(20:23):
back off and let the ravens feedonce they get the carcass open. Yeah,
so it's kind of an unint youknow, maybe unintentional, but through
revolution they're working together. And Ibelieve big Foot's work with a number of
creatures ravens, burdens, wolves andcoyotes and even flying squirrels. Yeah,
(20:44):
I mean that that would absolutely makesense because then they would know in advance
if there's a human right, theremight be some other notable behavior by some
other species and they go, oh, I'm gonna stay away from that area.
Well, what we're planning on doingAlan is even just guising the camera.
So we're gonna put coyote fur onthe actual caller. Yea, so
(21:06):
it's really blends. We're gonna actuallyhave real coyote fur. It's gonna be
scented, and it's gonna be sowe're not gonna just try to put this
thing. And once again what Ilearned when we did our squid. You
know, we put this camera systemon a bigger squid and to hopefully he
would go down to the depths wherethe big squid would be you know,
(21:29):
which I felt were just cannibals.They never went up and down the water
column. They just stayed down andate the smaller dudes that would climb up
and down the vertical art column feedingbringing nutrients down to the bottom. But
here's where it was interesting. Theother squid were feeling that cameras he was
diving down. All these squid werecoming up checking out that camera. They
(21:51):
were seeing it, and I wishedI would have disguised it. So now
I wished, I really, youknow, would have made a big effort
to disguise it. Um. Butso we want to disguise the camera on
the coyote coyotes, um, anduh, with a little luck or a
lot of luck or you know,god win the lottery luck, maybe we
(22:18):
could get the best footage ever,you know, close up clear intimate footage
of a big foot, and thatmight raise the bar good if you do.
Let's let's say that happens with threeD rendering, special effects, artificial
intelligence rendering. There's just do youthink you still be able to convince?
(22:41):
Is there a way to present rawdata in a way that it's you can
say this is purely uncorrupted? Yeah? Oh, absolutely absolutely, um ai
um cgi. It's still full ofholes. But I mean, let's just
imagine five years from now it's thatgood. Well are you will you still
(23:02):
be able to go? This ishow I can prove that my footage is
real and not artificial. Well thatthat can be done with my sebum test,
because you can't fake chemically, can'tfake complex chemical signatures. Yeah,
and in that complex chemical signature shouldbe enough skin cells to get nuclear DNA.
(23:26):
If the photography is done right,of the handprints and fingerprints, you've
got very detailed, latent details.If you get down into a close up
scale, you'll see the skin pores. Um. It's tough to fake three
D evidence. You've got to supportit three ways. Okay, so do
(23:47):
you have you actually collected a chemicalcompound that is truly anomalous yes, and
yeah, number of of samples,yes, you know, aside from those
who already have an interest in Bigfoot, like Jeff Meldrum, do you I've
shown this to other scientists and theygo, oh, that's a trig Well
yeah, of course, yeah,I talked to sciences. That's what I
do home all week, all month, That's what I've been doing for twenty
(24:11):
years. And yes, scientists knowabout this, and we're very excited to
get going on it and get atest. It took money, which was
why the Kickstarter campaign to fund someof these tests. And ultimately, I
know this project's gonna gonna clean mysavings out because there's no way the budget
(24:33):
that we raised is going to coverackdoing this dock. What's gonna help?
You know? It at least givesus a start, you know, when
we've put up another fundraising so peoplecan still contribute, you know, under
a little less pressure. Last onewas like a thirty day. This one
will be up till that the thingthing comes out. Yeah, I'm with
you that we I think we madea mistake too. Years ago when we
(24:55):
did our fundraiser Kickstarter for our MoreEqual documentary, we put that time limit
on there, and I regret that. I mean I wish we would have
kept kept it open longer. Yeah, well, we we made our goal,
so that's you know, that's thatwas nice. Way had a goal
of eighteen. We went up toI think eighty four thousand. So we've
got more than enough to get goingand get a lot of these scientific tests
(25:17):
done, start shooting sequences, getget those in the bag. Well,
knowing your your history and your productionvalue that you bring to it, if
indeed you you have some really interestingevidence to present, I'm sure it'll do
well. Yeah it should. Youknow, Um, I've gotten if I
get ten letters a week to bringback monster quests, you know I do.
(25:41):
I mean it's this constant you know, people want but they want more,
more of the work that we did. Only because here's why it stands
out. I am not a producer. I never set out to be a
producer. I was a guy thatwith a bunch of questions. I was
a while. I've researcher the producersstuff. I mean, I enjoy doing
(26:03):
it, but that's not I'm notjust like some guys today. I think
it would be really popular to doa Bigfoot show. It would be really
popular. No, I was drivenby curiosity, So I was behind every
Monster Quest episode. Everything was justget my curiosity satisfied. And that's why
they people like the shows, becauseyou know they're no more serious. Yeah,
(26:27):
but curiosity is contagious though, That'sthe thing, you know, and
when when it's sincere and when it'svoracious. I mean, people love that
Monster Quest. I like. Ilike the change of subject, you know,
from episode to episode of what isthere a reality where Monster Quest comes
back? Or some other iteration ofit. Sure, sure it could happen.
(26:48):
Yeah, we're the whole door isstill open on that. The problem
is I did a good job onMonster Request and it's still holding water.
So it's still running all over theworld right now, competing against herself right
in some ways, And that's kindof what you know, my executive producers
have said, well, geez,it's doing really good still. You know,
it's like, well, we've gotseventy episodes, what do we need
(27:11):
more? Well, Jingis come inchat has a suggestion called it cryptid Quests.
Yeah, do my own so well? Okay, so I bring up
he brings up a good point I'venever done. I've put off and been
just terrified to do any fundraising.One you're terrified of failing. Yeah.
(27:33):
Two, I've never I'm not usedto having to beg for money because it's
usually I'm backed up by a network, right, so when the budgets are
always really good, but in theend, they own the property. So
finally, you know, because ofCOVID that delayed it, and there were
some there was some discussions with somenetworks and even Imax on doing this in
(27:55):
an Imax, and when all thatstuff kind of caves in, we ended
up in the Kickstarter. But I'llbe honest, I was afraid it would
fail and end up in the Kickstartergraveyard. And that's the last place you
want to be, right Alan.Oh yeah, you start getting nervous if
you don't getting there quick enough.So but you can imagine me. You
know, I have a thirty fivethirty five year film and television career failing.
(28:21):
So now I'm on my own.I'm doing it but this but if
this is somewhat successful, then youknow, my team knows how to do
this. So maybe we can funda Monster Quest type show. And yeah,
changing the name to whatever we'll haveAllen, Allen can name it you'll
come up with the name Ellen,and we'll name it that, and then
we'll just go ahead and do it. We'll do it on our own.
(28:44):
That's cool. I love it.Yeah, I mean, hey, I
mean, Doug, if you can, if you can get even just a
little bit of activity in the mainstreamcoverage, that would be phenomenal. Yeah,
you know, I'm you know,I'm not. I'm honest with myself.
I don't think it would be uapUFO level, not at least in
the next few years. But whoknows. I mean, he never knows.
(29:07):
I mean really, Okay, soif we end up really getting a
full nuclear DNA, the entire genomecould happen because I am working with companies
at that level right now, andI'm very lucky. And these people just
kind of fell into the lab becauselike my neighbor's brother works at the you
know he's and so I'm kind ofkeep falling into those weird situations. It's
(29:32):
almost like the universe steps up andhelp you. For instance, I was
a lunch today and a man callsme about publishing a book for a friend
and find out he's like one ofthe best acoustical experts in the entire world.
But he didn't call me about that. He called me about my publishing
(29:52):
company, about getting a book publisher'sbuddy. But see, then we ended
up having two calls already. Soand he's already going to work building some
aquinili Literally he was grabbing equipment offhis shelf, acoustical equipment. Yes,
we need it, rare stuff.Yeah, that we need it. He
say, I should have one ofmy storage And while we're on the phone
(30:14):
with them, with all my myaudio people, he's pulling the stuff off
the shelf and sending photos. Youknow that. That's great. I'm glad
that you have him on board.Sometimes you'll see a video pop up and
they'll be someone listening to, youknow, an alleged or or speculated bigfoot,
you know y'all or whatever, andthen they'll say, oh, no,
(30:36):
that's a you know whatever other animal. Um. You know, are
there recordings out there that you cansay if somebody is saying that about that
recording, that they are either inknowledgeable or mistaken or or purposely misleading.
(30:56):
Well, we've got eighty five dand recordings right to pick from for Legimide
Science. We've picked out some ofthe best and the best, and there
are things there's actually math and thefundamentals on the spectrograms that are very consistent
with the bigfoot stuff where humans,even if they're a voice and you know,
(31:22):
imitator, they cannot do these theycannot remove these fundamentals. There's some
dual tonal stuff. There's a wholegroup of fundamentals missing. We are not
only going to have some of thebest audio people looking at it, but
we're going to explain it to theaudience so they all get it and so
(31:45):
they can then take you any recordingin the future and use legimiad science as
a reference to compare their You know, we're really going to go deep into
this stuff, but we're going todo it in a in a light bulb
light bulb going off way, youknow, so dual tone like like a
harmonic coming from the same source somewhere, yeah, somewhere in the throat singing.
(32:09):
If you've heard throat singing, yea, yeah, like Mongolian, yeah
right, and you kind of wonderwhy did throat singing start. And of
course one theory is they heard itin bigfoot calls because they're all from the
all these areas that throats singing originatedare all in Bigfoot areas or Yetti areas
(32:31):
or whatever you're interesting. And somaybe they heard these dual tonal calls and
they were trying to mimic them.Then wouldn't they're mimicking, whether in song
or otherwise today, wouldn't that bea call to to the the Bigfoot or
(32:52):
Yetti? Would would they not respondto that? I don't. I don't
even know. See, here's thething, the throats singing people they don't
want to talk about it. Sowe're we're working on that whole end right
now because there is going to besome throat singers in this For instance,
UM, there's a man, he'sone of the he's got the lowest voice
(33:14):
in the world right He's in theGuinness World Book of Records. He's like
one of the only humans in theworld that can do UM sound into the
infrasound range and even way below,way below twenty hurts. He can get
down to like you know, pointthree hurts. And that's been proven and
documented. UM. And so we'regoing to even for him. He's agreeing
(33:36):
to let us do it. Iwas on the phone with him today.
We're gonna put a camera through hissinuses and we're going to see how he's
creating infrasound. Okay, yeah,okay, so this right, so this
has this has been done before withhim ever, No, no, no,
And he agreed to do it,and I said, I said,
(33:57):
I go, Tim, why areyou willing to let us do this kind
of painful? Because I let himdo it to me, right um,
I went to an the NDNM doit to me and to find somebody who
would do it to him, andI've got somebody lined up, okay,
And he did it. It wasone of the most painful, nasty things
I've ever experienced, having this camerasnake through your sinuses, through your skull,
(34:19):
and then down into your throat,through the back of your throat.
It's just horrid. I mean,it's like right out of like being abducted
from it by aliens type terrible,you know what I mean. So anyhow,
I asked, I said to him, where are you willing to go
through with this? And he goesbecause I saw a big foot and I'm
(34:42):
like, oh my god, noway, that's the thing, right yeah,
god no, I was just gonnasay he was not only they see
when him and his buddy got towatch it for quite a while because it
was catching fish. They were ona railroad trestle and they were you know,
they had walked all the stressle andsat down quietly, not wanted to
spook the fish. Here it comesa big foot. It's catching fish below
(35:07):
them, So they got to watchit do all this stuff without you know
it knowing about them. And sohe's like totally into this, right,
right, So there you go,and once against that universe kind of steps
up to help you sometimes, doyou know what though You're You're right though,
Ian and the things You kind ofhave to be open to it because
sometimes the universe isn't working for you, and that might that might be a
(35:30):
sign in and of itself. Right, you weren't right, But I got
a call already. Um last timeI didn't legend me since when I got
a call about some really unique footagebecause the creature was completely out the open,
running across the mountain. That wasthe Memile Day footage. No one
had ever seen it. It wasbrand new, and I'm like, oh
crap. Because I kept analyzing lookingat it, and all of a sudden
(35:52):
the end there's a baby that likedarts up on its own on the back,
and I thought, oh, andthere's no way the hands are at
this side. As it walked rightinto the woodline. It this thing just
pops up on his own. Andum, so I thought, well,
I'm gonna map the whole mountain forlegimide science to get the speed of the
(36:13):
creature, the height. And soI hired all this lighter people to you
know, basically map um this uhmountain. And it was complex, but
it was you know, it's agreat sequence in the in the film.
It's entertaining. I hired an Olympicrunner to run the same exact course this
(36:34):
creature ran. Who can win?Then? Right, you put the footage
side by side and you see who'swinning the race. So there you go.
Very cool. Have you ever heardof the Bulgarian voices? No,
I haven't listen. I'm definitely listening. Nollen. Yeah, go go check
it out. It's okay, holdon, I'm gonna write it down.
Bulgaria Mystery voices. Yeah, it'svery enchanting. Um, it's almost like
(37:00):
the opposite end of the mongolian Um. Chance. Well, here's here's why
why you just gotta I just gottachill, because the natives talk about these
mystery voices too, and they callit UM. I'm gonna give you the
English interpretation, but basically, syllablewhispering is the English interpretation of the natives.
(37:22):
Like um, like the hoop onthe year rock, they would call
it syllable whispering. They would hearthem. They would be at a you
know, a fire whatever, talkingand all of a sudden they would hear
whatever mimic them on the forest.Okay, is this similar to that kind
of a uh No, No,it's it's much more vocal, much more
(37:43):
um. In fact, when youhear it, and you'll you'll you'll recognize
that you've probably heard it in moviesin part of background music UM or orchestral
music. I really really beautiful.It's just very enchanting. UM. So
yeah, I just wondered if ifindeed the throat singers UM, you know,
are inspired by by Bigfoot. Imean, some of the awls we've
(38:07):
heard are on a much um higherpitch as well. Yeah, they see
you have a very big range.Yeah that's that's amazing. But no matter
what the range is, there's thismissing fundamental and UM, like the Olympic
Project has gone so far into hiringvoice actors to try to duplicate certain things.
(38:28):
They can't. It shows up human. So David's got David Ellis has
got me trained. I can justlook at a spectrogram, goll that's human,
just like that. Bam. Youknow it's really easy to tell what's
human or not that what's big foot? Right, it's a it's a it's
a signature. Yeah, it's definitelya certain exact thing. And the idea
is to make it very calm andvery easy to understand. And did not
(38:51):
only get the guy interested in it'slight bulb to go off and how to
do it and understand it, butthe skeptic to get them to go h
Maybe I should reconsider this because skeptics, you know, some of them can't
be convinced no matter what you do. You could PLoP a body right in
front of them, they wouldn't believeit. Or um, there's ile'd say
(39:14):
a pretty good percentage of them thatare still willing to be swayed. You
know, they're open minded skeptics.Well, I mean, Jane goodall for
goodness sake is open open minded today, right, I mean that's and this
is someone who lived close quarters likeunderstands yea in uh apes And well even
(39:35):
that bringsis to this question. Sowhere where do you stand with the theory
of what a big foot is?I would say that I'm open to any
damn thing. But I do knowthey leave here. Um, they leave
fingerprints. Um, you can recordtheir audio. So that's kind of where
I just have to just, youknow, just accept that. And if
(39:59):
you know so, but he thinksthey're metaphysical, doesn't interfere with what I'm
doing. Um, if somebody thinksthey're spirits, well maybe I have no
hope. But yet, how doyou explain footprint casts you know that are
very legitimate? Um? So Iyou know, I tend to just go
with the you know, some typeof a very humanized primate, maybe even
(40:22):
smarter than we are. We don't. I don't know. So I'm just
open minded. Ellen, I don't. I don't have a clue. I
know less, not a less nowthan I ever than I ever knew.
I think you're more confident when youstart out, But every time I seem
to get an opinion, I gethumbled. You know, I've been outsmarted
by these things in some of themost obvious ways where they've come and tested
(40:45):
a trap of mine just to tripit, and they knew what they were
doing, and they did things toscare people away from the area while they
tested the trap, and these thingslike that over and over and over,
and just like, oh, man, you guys are smart. Yeah,
and Doug, I think you justmade a kind of a good point when
(41:07):
you first came to investigating this.Like so many other people in the power
normal cryptanziological world, there's this ideathat maybe if I give it a crack,
maybe if I try to do somethinga little bit different, I can
I can solve this and it doesn'tnecessarily have to be out of ego,
just pure enth enthusiasm and a desireto do it. And then you find
out, oh, this is notgoing to be as easy as I thought.
(41:29):
And I think that that's probably whathappens to a lot of scientists.
I think probably scientists or skeptics cometo this and they're like, I don't
know, I can't. They justdon't want to commit to that long term
study, right, Yeah, No, it's true, and they you know,
they don't want to be laughed at, and they don't want to be
lose their job or their status,and certainly everybody's afraid of be laughed at.
(41:51):
Yeah, but I think also justfrustration, like like I don't know
what to do with this thing.Have you heard of zoo Book? Uh?
No, I don't think. Okay, zoo book. I'll beginning together
this Thursday with zoo book. Andzoo book is a whole bunch of scientists,
zookeepers, animal biologists, researchers toyou know, these are not bigfoot
(42:15):
people. Is it a website?No? No, no, no no?
What is a secret meaning that happensevery other Thursday? Oh well,
that's why I don't know of anonymousscientists that are interested in the topic but
not willing to go public yet.And the group is growing and growing and
(42:37):
growing. I just brought two newscientists in last week, for instance,
into this group of all different disciplines, and it's just wonderful to sit there
in this Now we're all anonymous,right, and we can all discuss the
science of bigfoot and then you know, the ups and the downs and this
(42:59):
and then just see everything and it'sjust really cool. And we do it
on a zoom meeting, And dude, is it just bigfoot. Yeah,
just bigfoot, bigfoot. That kindof simplifies it. That make that makes
sense? Um, well that's exciting. Do you see do you see a
future where some of these scientists willpeel off and oh I know, so
I've already got a couple to peeloff. Okay, yeah, yeah,
(43:22):
that'll that'll be It'll be in LEGImeansime be interviewed, you know on camel
nice Okay, yeah, yeah.And you mentioned intelligence too, So I
don't think intelligence is is this astrict necessarily a strict linear measurement of level
level another of another. I thinkthere are different types of intelligences. Like
(43:43):
dolphins are extraordinarily intelligent. Their braindevelops particularly in one sort of way.
So it to me that would explainif we get about line, well can
you can you or I make asonar and create three D images and sonar?
No, they have a super abilityand their brains. Yes, they
(44:04):
have a huge brain. So abigfoot, I believe, has got a
number of superabilities like a dolphin,and it's far more intelligent than we are
in the woods. In the woodsright. No, they're not going to
run your Mac computer. It's adifferent you know, we all possess our
own That's where everybody needs to respecteach other because we all have our own
gifts. We all have our owntalents. You know, you're you have
(44:28):
your talents. Somebody else might bea great painter, or somebody might have
all sorts of talents, and somebodymight just have, you know, one
that's they don't even know about.But the point is bigfoots have got certain
talents and we have to respect thoseum and and feel humbled as they humble
me over and over and show methese woods wise talents that they have.
(44:52):
That doesn't mean that they're you know, they're gonna be you know, assembling
a car. You know, it'sit's a very very specific superability um talent
um. I think they have asuperability. One of them's strength, just
great strength. That's a superability.Right now? Are they how much more
(45:14):
intelligent do you think they are thanthan a gorilla? Let's say, because
they can evade our technology, havean awareness there, yep um. I
think gorillas are extremely intelligent. Theyjust have a very Gorillas are a little
bit more in the laid back,you know, they're they they aren't roam
where big foots I believe Rome quitea bit. Is certainly in a you
(45:36):
know, depending on where they liveagain in the Pacific Northwest. I don't
think they roam very far because it'skind of warm and temperate there all the
time, up the mountain, downthe mountain. That's maybe yet Minnesota.
The ones that come here probably traveledup the Saint Croy Valley the Mississippi River
Valley to get here, probably followingripinging favorite foods and things. And so
(45:59):
there are central bandfoot and now Idon't remember your question, Allen, so
well, no, just about intelligence? Oh yeah, how much more intelligent
are they? Oh, compared toguerrillas? Well, I'm sure they're right
in there. I think that they'reprobably more so, only because I think
(46:19):
we've we've proven we can we canhabituate guerrillas. We've proven that. But
although there hasn't been really any effort, I wouldn't say there's been much effort
in the US or North America tohabituate bigfoots um. I think that's you
know, certainly a next step.And I have talked to scientists that mainstream
(46:40):
scientists about doing it, and they'vepretty much the ones I've talked to said,
if you can get me fund andI'll do it for a year.
And these are people who have alreadybeen like worked under Diane Foss, they
have got habituation training. Then theywould do it if I can just get
them the fund. So there's gonnabe some new kickstarters probably happening. But
(47:06):
it's really cool when a mainstream afield biologists like that can go I'll do
it. Yeah, I'll live inthe forest for a year as long as
my bills get paid back home.That's impressive. I mean that would be
quite the fun ryal though, ofcourse yeah well yeah, yeah, no,
and I think it's quite doable.But so I want to just prove
(47:28):
myself with this project to get everybody'sconfidence level. Yeah, I think it
is good because it's because a monsterrequest, but still, you know,
get everybody's confidence level that I cando some good things with the money and
then maybe, um we'll do anotherfilm or a series and maybe at the
same time, I can you know, work on getting a really credible field
(47:50):
scientist fund into um you know,just to live in the middle of nowhere
and see if they can get thetrust. You do. You have hair
samples with you that you just arewaiting to get tested lots. Yeah,
what about those those um the samplesthat have been tested in the past and
we heard something like, oh,we only have um mitochondrial or yeah,
(48:14):
so what's the deal with that?Why is that somewhat inconclusive? Well,
because, um, yeah, thefirst the first go to is the mitochondrial
because you know, um, bigfoothairs don't have a lot of them madala,
which is where most of the DNAis. So hair really works,
but they generally just get a realshort sequence of the mitochondria. Mitochondrial could
(48:37):
be great, tell a big story, but you need a big sequence of
it. So what they do isthey just get that human part of it
and they see that and they go, well, it's human. I had
a Freeman, you know, PaulFreeman. One of his hairs he collected
now under a microscope, those hair. It's got a tapered end. Never
(48:58):
been it's never been cut ever,Right, Okay, So once you cut
your hair, I don't care ifthirty years agoes by, it's gonna have
that blunt end not been cuts.A little more whispeed, it's got probably
less scaling human scaling, but lessscales around the outside Nomadola from Paul Freeman.
It's coupled with the footage, right, so it's you know, it's
(49:22):
a little more credible. Um.And I get it tested and I expect
it to come back human. Um. I gave it to Uma Scott Walt
for America on Earth. They testedit, you know that show on History
Channel. So he tested Scott Waltercame took it from me, and it
(49:45):
came back. And Scott thought,well, I got dog go it's human.
It's what I That's what I expectedit to be. But what kind
of human has hair that long thatyou find out in the forest that's never
been cut as nomadola? Right,and it's got a little bit of moss
(50:05):
growing on it? You follow me? Yeah, Now you know that's interesting.
Is there is there a way todetect some kind of biochemical um,
I don't know, artifact when youhave a different types of let's say hair
(50:25):
in this case right, reacting tomoss or some other outside you know,
natural agent. Is there any kindof biochemical biproduct that you could look at
and say, oh, if itwas human hair, it wouldn't react in
this way or vice versas. Yeah, there's there's one experiment that they didn't.
(50:47):
I thought it was complete BS,right, they seem real confident about
it. I thought it was BS. And that was a hair that I
collected up at the snow Grove Lakeyhabbin not if you're familiar with that.
The cabin got attacked several times whenI was there and other people were there.
Jeff Meldron was there. It happened, well, well there was it's
(51:10):
it's in Sasquatch attack two. Therewas a rod case thrown at the cabin.
Very We woke everybody up through thepicnic table, which you know,
two men can harmly left and wecollected it snagged down his zip tie one
hair once again wavy, very thin, tapered and no mandala. The morphology
(51:34):
Sasquatch all day long, right,I bet my life on it. Get
it and tested it. And theythought they could do this test um chemical
you know, so they thought,well, human hair um would absorb bleach
or not not bleach blueing some bluedye if it had been like shampoos and
(52:00):
processing, you know what I mean. More, it's gonna be more a
porous. It's been a long time. Sorry, it's gonna absorb blue dye.
So they put it in blue dye. Well, they wreck the freaking
hair for stuff, and of coursean absorb blue guy. Well I'm sorry,
(52:20):
grab some blue and take any hair. I don't care who it is
on the planet, a newborn baby, even then it's gonna absorb blue dye.
Oh yeah, I mean you candie anything. All hair is porus,
right, exactly. Yeah, it'snot like yeah, I mean not
dealing with like solution dyed nylon versusyou know, pain or something, um
um. So they came to theconclusion it's human here based on that.
(52:45):
Well, really, did you lookat the morphology of their No, they
never do. Yeah, even thoughyou tell them to, or they'll promise
they're going to, in most casesthey won't. But I've got a little
different relationship this time. I'm we'regonna it's gonna be a bigger deal.
Yeah, so we'll see. Itdoesn't mean I will get let down in
our audience will get let down.But we're not just testing one here at
(53:08):
one lab. Okay, it's gonnabe a whole bunch of stuff, and
it's all you know, the stuffI'm testing has all been vetted by me
and not poly Heart. The intimatepolyester by the way. Oh yeah,
but all right, So is thereany anything out there that stands right now
that you would point to and golike this is the best, whether it
(53:29):
be audio or a video or anyother kind of evidence. Um to me,
I still think it's the sebum samplesthat we've collected. Yeah, I
think it's gonna offer the most interestand hope because there should be there should
be skin cells to get nuclear DNA, not not mitochonderal, but nuclear which
is from the father um. Andwe should be able to get the entire
(53:52):
sequence. We should because the genbanks are so good now, not early
humans on people and everything should justcome together. We're on Praine, you
know. Jingis says maybe someone inZoo Book will help with the hair.
Yes, yes, and no,I've already got kind of commitments. And
(54:14):
I don't think we have any geneticistsin there. There's people that do it
like they may be like a marinebiologist, right and they do their marine
genetic testing. But yeah, that'sactually you know, I'll tell you what
I'll do in my next meeting,which is this Thursday. I Am going
to ask everybody in Zoo Book.Sometimes on everybody attends so you never know
(54:36):
whether you're getting a you know,full answer me. Yeah, it's a
good idea. I guess I haven'tdone that, all right. Cool,
And so we're at the end ofthe show. You can leave us with
one thought, Doug, what wouldit be? Monsters are real? I
think that's the thought that dominates hermind, isn't it. Yeah, Yeah,
monsters are real. Monsters are real. So all monsters, I mean,
(54:59):
what what we are? Dragons?All monsters, All monsters are real.
I kind of believe that, Okay, I feel you. I kind
of do, because do people reallyreport things they don't see on a regular
basis? That's the thing, right, because what is there to gain.
There's nothing to gain. People aren'treporting unicorns. And that's why when you
(55:23):
hear these accounts of Bigfoot with metaphysicalattributes, it it makes it curious.
Yeah, that could have been bothsomething physical and you know, well,
think to think of the most,think of the amazing universe we live in
and just our earthier. It isso amazing the amount of creatures. I
(55:44):
keep seeing new creatures every day I'venever seen and I research this stuff.
Yeah again, it's just like wehave like what um one point eight million
we know about. We're like halfwaythere, yeah, and other two million
creatures to discover yet, right,how many what's the number of number of
(56:04):
discoveries we have? I think itis one point eight million that we know
about every creatures. No, no, no, not even you're total total.
But you know, every year theydiscover more mammals, more creatures,
more insects, more plants. Imean, we live in an amazing complex
world, amazing complex universe. I'veseen things that you know, um,
(56:28):
kind of humbled me and I'm like, yeah, monsters are really Yeah,
I'm talking about the ones that arereported on a regular basis. Well,
you know, after you do thisnext documentary, Yeah, sasquatch, that
legend meets science too. Do youthink you are dip your toe in Homo
floresiensis Yeah, I mean that wouldbe really cool because you do something like
(56:52):
that. Yeah, there's there's someeven people you know that have been seeing
the little hobbits and yeah up untilpretty recent times. Yeah, yeah,
I gotta be a fun documentary todo. I'm really curious about it.
Um you know, um yeah,I think it'd be very challenging, super
challenging, and I can tell youone thing, I'm not living in the
(57:14):
jungles won't be me. I'll goout there for all ten days is my
living. I'm coming home. That'swhy you're the producer. I'll leave like
Adam Davies, there there for acouple of months. Awesome, Doug,
thank you so much for joining usto night. I really really appreciate it.
Everyone listening. If you want tofind out more about Doug, go
to Hanger one Publishing dot com,Slash Products, Slash Legend, Dash Meat
(57:38):
Stash Signs too, or just goto Hanger one Publishing dot com and you'll
find the documentary there. Wow.What a great conversation. Thanks so much
for joining Doug again, I reallyappreciate it, and thank you all for
hanging out on this specialistic lounge episodeTuesday night rather than a Thursday night.
I do have another Coffee in UFOsepisode coming soon, and just to let
everybody know, the next several months, episodes will be spread out much further.
(58:04):
Part just got a lot of stuffgoing on in personal life and then
also working on another project, andyou know, we'll see how that comes
to fruition. I'll keep you updated. So peace and loves you all Thanks
so much everyone for joining the chatand I love you guys and until next
time, everyone special thanks to RaceHobbs and Margie Kay on Next Network and
I'll catch you on the flip sidelive in the Mystery
You're listening to Mystic Lounge with AlanB. Smith, rebroadcast on the on
X Network Thursdays at eleven pm PacificFridays at two a m. Eastern.
(00:31):
However you are, and whenever youare, Welcome, good souls to Mystic
Lounge. Is Alan B. Smith, your most grateful host live with you
here on the Mystic Lounge YouTube channel. If you're a fan of this show
and of the other podcast on thischannel, which is Coffee and UFOs,
please subscribe, like comment down belowand share. And if you listen to
(00:51):
these podcasts on your podcast platform,please rate and review them there. I'd
really appreciate that. Tonight, wehave a very cool guest. His name
is Doug Hagesk. He's a producerof Monster Quest and his latest documentary Sasquatch
Legend Meets Science two. We'll getto Doug in just a moment. If
(01:11):
you like this show, you canfind many other fascinating paranormal and uphological cryptozoological
shows on the UNEX networked It's unexnetworkdot com. And yeah, Race Hobbs
Margie k who the two of them, you know, working side by side,
really got that thing up and runningand it's impressive. It's growing so
(01:33):
fast, so please go check themout as well. And yeah, if
you're a YouTube follower, please subscribeand click the notification bell because we don't
want to miss any pop up episodeslike tonight because it is a Tuesday night
and normally the show is on Thursdaynight. So thank you so much for
jumping in on this random show,all right. Doug is a wildlife researcher,
(01:57):
technology inventor with a very successful televisioncareer spanning over thirty years. His
scientific accomplishments include building the camera systemthat filmed the first free swimming giant squid,
well over fifty four feet long,living in its natural habitat. He
also is one of the originators ofreality television with Mysterious Encounters. He has
(02:21):
also designed many hidden carameers to spyon bears and other mammals. He is
also the producer for the hitlong runningTV series and Monster Quest for the History
Channel. Before this, he producedmany other documentaries and other TV series for
Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, TLC, and more. Doug is now working
(02:42):
in preproduction on Sasquatch Legend Meets Scienceto Doug, Welcome to Mystic Lounge.
How are you hey, how areyou doing here? Hellen? Oh good,
thanks so very much for coming on. Yeah, yeah, So what's
my pleasure? Right? So we'regonna have to just, I think,
go back in time. It's awhile since I've done a Bigfoot episode or
you know, crypto. It's beenat least a couple of months. So
(03:06):
what got you interested in cryptozoology inthe first place. Well, um,
I was interested in it from thefirst time I saw a Boy's Life magazine
in our elementary school library had astill picture of the Paterson Gimblin creature Patty,
and I saw that and I justlooked at the you know, the
(03:29):
photos inside, and I went threesecond rule, that thing looks real.
I'm eight years old. Flash forward, excuse me, I'm gonna drink a
water. Flash forward, I'm deerhunting. I'm in a deer stand and
all of a sudden, I meanstill dark, I have this overwhelming stink
(03:50):
that just overpowers me. And Iremember, you know, covering my face
and I can't breathe, it's sobad. I'm in the forest, you
know, there as fresh as secondsearlier. And then all of a sudden,
I hear chess beating and I alreadyyou know, I knew it wasn't
a grouse because the ground shook,even my tree stands shook from this chess
(04:12):
beating. And that was really interestingand went away just as quick as it
came. But we're got really interesting. I went back to camp to meet
my uncle and my cousins and mybest friend. Every one of them had
the same story, and we wereall about a quarter of a mile apart,
(04:33):
so they all heard the same chessbeating to stink everything. And the
vibration that's actually almost the most impressiveto mecause it just as a human,
if we pound our chest, Idon't expect you to feel it very far.
Wow. So so that was justa gray basket experience, right,
(04:53):
but you know, it goes inthe ear subconscious and it just kind of,
oh, maybe these things are real, you know, and you live
in Minnesota because it was my cousinMark, that my cousin Scott that goes.
I think that was a big footAnd I didn't even know, you
know, there's like big foots,and you know, Minnesota thought it was
a California thing. So then flashforward, I'm up in the Arctic.
(05:16):
I'm doing Wilife Research, and wewere trying to get footage of these giants,
hundred and hundred and fifty year oldlake trout that can get up to
like six feet long seventy two incheslong. And I had seen one right
on a previous trip, and soI was up there and we had to
(05:39):
take a peabreak because it was reallykind of whinny this one day. Pull
up to the sand Esker, kindof a sandy area. It was just
beautiful, almost like the Caribbean.We pull up and here there are tracks
coming out of the water, right, because there were islands all over in
the water was quite shallow. They'revery clear and very shallow. You can
(06:00):
almost picture the Caribbean. I mean, that's exactly what it looked like.
But you're, you know, you'reway up in Northwest Territories, right.
So we follow these footprints and theylook human but they're huge. And then
you can see the clearly the toesin the sand and then they go up
into the pea gravel quite deep,and we couldn't even dent it, you
know, because we tested it rightaway because it literally was raining that day.
(06:24):
It was just drizzling, you know, so the ground was moist.
We should have been able to dentit had that been any kind of human.
And so we just kept following.The tracks go up into the into
the moss, and then the littlestand of stunted black spruce trees and on.
They're like seven foot eight foot sixfoot tall, but they're maybe a
(06:46):
hundred years old. But it's socold up there that you know, the
growing season is very very short.So, um, here's where it got
me, Allan. There's the footprintsled up to this tree trunk. There
was a footprint right in front ofthe tree trunk three inches away, and
there was one directly behind it.That means that whatever it was stepped over
(07:11):
the tree. And that's where mybuddy who was with and he was a
journalist, he says to me,we need to go now. Yeah,
I'd be feeling the same, yeahexactly, And I'm like, I want
to see where these tracks go.So we talked everybody into going through this
little steaming little forest came out poppedout. Now it's miles of tundra,
(07:36):
you know, just moss, andyou can see those indents in the moss
going off into the horizon. Sonot many people would follow the tracks.
Why did you feel the desire,that the impulse to do that. Well,
I mean I was curious, youknow, because of my previous experience.
(07:57):
You know, once again I'd neverthought a bigfoot being in the Arctic.
But then you know, I getback. Oh, by the way,
we did ask a floodplane pilot totake up because I thought, well,
if there's a creature walking and there'sno tree cover, we should be
able to find it, follow thetracks, find it and film it because
(08:18):
I had, you know, broadcastquality cameras with me, and the guy
thought we were playing a hoax onhim, a camp owner, and we
you know, it was a tentcamp. We go in, we go
in his tent, and we triedto explain this story, which sounds crazy.
He thought we were playing a camptrick on him, hoax I could
(08:39):
pull out of him. Yeah,I mean I could imagine him thinking that
because if if that's his camp andhe's never seen a big foot, suddenly
you guys happened to see one.I can understand that. Sure. So
he threw his clipboard against the sidewall. It was like, okay, that's
our cue to get out. Andso that was the end of it,
I mean, you know, andI had filmed on the tracks. I
(09:00):
had a RICTUUS stand up that didrun on the local news when I got
home. U And of course Ididn't know they're going to recycle the tapes,
you know, I just I hadnever really thought about that. It
was kind of green. But theyrecycled those tapes and they didn't even save
it. Yeah, so it's ona beta beta SP tape and they just
(09:22):
recycled them. It's the news tothem, It's just a news package,
a bunch of BS. So thefootage is gone. But how come why
does this happen, Doug? Whywhy is there so many fotages that have
gone gone? I don't know,you know, And I just, um,
I remember, I did make aVHS copy and I of the beta,
(09:43):
the BETASP tape, and I sentit to Peter Byrne. And so
if anybody has a copy of thattape, it's Peter still unless Peter throw
it away or recycled the VHS tape. But he got back to me and
he said, yeah, there's beenreports that far north. You know,
he was sighting some sightings back inthe eighteen hundreds, and a little more
(10:05):
research Eventually I got a hold ofMatt Moneymaker. Matt was super nice and
just I could, you know,sit there on the phone for hours with
him. He answered all my questionsand I went, this information needs to
be on TV. I didn't knowthey were everywhere, woods, water,
nails and their sightings all over thecountry, and you know, he was
just spouting all these I guess databased on you know, his database that
(10:31):
he was collecting. And so nextyou know, mean mattered becoming good friends.
Matt flies up and we started workingon on dock and we ended up
pitching it getting turned down, andfinally John four and over at Discovery Channel
said hey, I want this.I'll take it, and then I but
he goes, he goes, canyou do this? I want this on
(10:52):
thirty five millimeter film? So Ihad to shoot this dock on thirty five
millimeter film, which has a wholenother or layer of you know, the
negatives and getting them developed and notknowing whether he actually got anything, you
know, and all these interviews andshoots that you're going all over too.
So anyhow, in the end itturned out great. We didn't have any
(11:13):
footage that even got left. Iused every damn inch of footage because I
had everything really planned out. Andthen um, about two or three days
before it was gonna run, Allenhe calls and he goes, well,
it's too bad. We can't runyour dock. And I'm like why,
and he goes, well, thathironymous thing, you know, that guy
(11:33):
that came forward and said that hewas behind the whole hoax. It's all
solved now, so we can't runyour dock. And I'm like, what
do you know what I mean?And I educated him, you know,
and he's like, oh, oh, oh, okay. But that's how
many people just bought that story,just hook line and saying the whole Bickwood
(11:54):
mystery was just explained. So hewas gonna throw away a science comentary out
full of evidence and full of youknow, scientists conclusion saying this is real
based on the evidence that we hadpresented. He's gonna throw that out based
on some guy and it just saidI was the guy in the suit.
Well, so we know that that'swhat hoaxers do. And uh, the
(12:18):
bunkers jump on that, and andbecause of it it puts a stain on
the subject. Then the scientists areare afraid to come back to, especially
journalists, and uh, you know, I'm starting to see a little bit
of that now with the uap UM, but it hasn't hasn't permeated yet back
into the mainstream news. We're talkingabout the backtracking. Yes, yeah,
(12:41):
yeah, so you know right right, Um, So I'm I'm happy that
uap you slash UFO has has sustainedsome credibility, which is pretty impressive.
How do how do we get Bigfoot? How do we get it decrypted to
really sustained credibility? Well, Ithink that, um, based on all
of the evidence that I've collected,based on the scientists that I know are
(13:05):
going to be analyzing. In thetypes of evidence, many types are brand
new, never before looked at,thought about, or seen. You know,
I don't know if you're familiar.For instance, there's a thing I
call elba Vernix that was named elbaVernix by Shelley Covington, Montana. And
(13:28):
we put our heads together because allof a sudden it hit me all these
handprints oliver on car windows, camperswindows, sliding glass windows that have been
being collected to photo photography. Holyall these years. It wasn't dust.
It's actually a substance that they're leavingbehind, and I thought, oh,
(13:54):
maybe the chemical compounds can be analyzed. Oh and then I did a little
research. Next thing, you know, I find out the gorillas have been
done, the rangon tangs have beendone, chims have been done, blah
blah blah, and they all havea very unique signature, every one of
them. So if we can getthe Sasquatch see them done and it has
(14:18):
a very unique signature, it's prettyhard to fake chemical evidence, especially when
you can submit numbers of samples.But here's the beautiful part. I can
instruct any scientists to get their ownevidence, probably within a month. Twelve
by twelve plexiglass shiny glossy plexiglass leftin the woods in a bigfoot known area.
(14:45):
If they see it, they're goingto touch it because they have this.
I believe they have a They're verytactile. They like to touch glass,
smooth paint on cars. It's justsomething I've noticed, you know,
just kind of like, well,how can we full of these things.
They're tough and they're very intelligent,but they can't seem to resist touching things
purely they think that's okay, goahead, Yeah, Well it's almost like
(15:07):
a child, right, like touchingsmooth surfaces like that you don't find in
the woods. Right, that's exactlyokay, So you're you just connected your
own dots before I said anything.So that was your own connection. And
now you know exactly what was goingthrough mind is exactly what I did,
and I went, oh, thisstuff's not available. You're curious because to
(15:31):
them they might look like water ifthey're gonna just because they seem to love
water. So I'm thinking they eitherthink it's water and they're just really curious,
like how can they rewater? Standingupright? And so they see that
and they could probably maybe see theirreflection in it, which could be you
know, a curiosity factor. Butthere's nothing smooth in the forest. And
(15:54):
so there you go, right right, Like I had a little kid over
here the other day, you know, a nephew, and he's touching the
carpet and touching because it's not hishouse, right, carpet's different, furniture
is different. He's touching everything justbecause he wants to feel the material.
It's kind of an inboard. Youknow. This is something primates do,
(16:15):
right, So does that mean it'sa juvenile or do you think this is
a common behavior? No, no, no, no, I think it's
just a common adulce. Jews are, you know, all the way up
because they seem to have some curiosity, which is their only the only weakness
I can find, and they havea lot of fear. I think,
(16:37):
I think they live their life basedon fear. And I really mum like
to do a comparative with black bears. Black bears evolved with the like sabertooth
tiger, and so they evolved byby being afraid of everything. You know,
black bears generally are. They're afraidof their own shadow. You know,
I've worked really close with them,and I know, you know,
(17:00):
there's a few situations where we've evengrabbed the cubs right from the mothers,
wild mothers, and they won't evendefend their own cubs because they're too afraid
to that. That's see, now, I would never risk that. Well
I didn't, and you know it'sit's it's in fact, I think we
got the first time I was everdone on TV. I filmed it m
(17:22):
I worked with doctor Lynn Rogers andhe was like, well do we do
it? And I'm like, yeah, let's do it. So he just
greach it and just grabbed him awayfrom the mom, and she just kind
of looked a little nervous, butshe didn't do anything, never lunched,
never attacked. And he had hadsimilar experiences trying to tag, you know,
bears, and he just kind ofnoticed that they would never defend their
(17:47):
cubs. Yeah. So um,but I think Bigfoot's kind of evolved in
a very similar way of being afraidof humans. Like bears are afraid of
almost everything, I think bigfoots areafraid of almost everything too. I think
they operate on fear. And peopledon't get the wall. They're a giant
down ten foot eight foot ape,giant muscles. Why would they operate on
(18:07):
fear? White the black bears.A black bear can just tear me apart
in a second, but yet they'reafraid of me. I don't know.
That was definitely a Steve Irwin momentfor sure. Not many people would do
that either. So we also justgive an example of all bears are very
(18:27):
a timid um. We've radio coloredbears and once again we've filmed the first
time I've ever been done wild blackbear gave her a little distraction of a
little food, just a distractor andput a leather radio collar on her and
bolted it on and wrenched it andbolted it on while she just ate this
(18:48):
food. Now, this was awild black bear, and I filmed it
for Animal Planet, and they couldn'tcome. They couldn't believe it. They
just could not believe it. Andso we you knows, I filmed it
and they gave us the show rightaway that I wanted to do based on
um doing research on trust um.And so that's kind of how I've evolved
(19:10):
into my ways of thinking a littlebit. It's through wildlife research and understanding.
You know, big predators can bevery afraid. Yeah, I mean
that makes sense. It's a sensibleconnection. There. Have you ever endeavored
to in the put a camera onsome other wild animal and the hope that
the animal itself would run up againsta big foot or Yeah? In fact,
(19:37):
it's it's in our in our fieldresearch. We're planning on putting a
basically a cardboard caller that will getwet and fall off very quickly. You'll
stay on maybe for a week,and we're gonna we're gonna put it on
one, two, three, orfour coyotes that live in a big Foot
area that I know, there's there'sthese creatures around based you know, so
(20:00):
many sightings, and I believe there'sa symbiotic relationship, whether it's a planned
one or an unintentional symbiotic relationship,like for instance, ravens help wolves.
You know, they fly around adeer that's maybe injured or diners just died,
and then the wolves go in andfinish it off, and they'll literally
(20:23):
back off and let the ravens feedonce they get the carcass open. Yeah,
so it's kind of an unint youknow, maybe unintentional, but through
revolution they're working together. And Ibelieve big Foot's work with a number of
creatures ravens, burdens, wolves andcoyotes and even flying squirrels. Yeah,
(20:44):
I mean that that would absolutely makesense because then they would know in advance
if there's a human right, theremight be some other notable behavior by some
other species and they go, oh, I'm gonna stay away from that area.
Well, what we're planning on doingAlan is even just guising the camera.
So we're gonna put coyote fur onthe actual caller. Yea, so
(21:06):
it's really blends. We're gonna actuallyhave real coyote fur. It's gonna be
scented, and it's gonna be sowe're not gonna just try to put this
thing. And once again what Ilearned when we did our squid. You
know, we put this camera systemon a bigger squid and to hopefully he
would go down to the depths wherethe big squid would be you know,
(21:29):
which I felt were just cannibals.They never went up and down the water
column. They just stayed down andate the smaller dudes that would climb up
and down the vertical art column feedingbringing nutrients down to the bottom. But
here's where it was interesting. Theother squid were feeling that cameras he was
diving down. All these squid werecoming up checking out that camera. They
(21:51):
were seeing it, and I wishedI would have disguised it. So now
I wished, I really, youknow, would have made a big effort
to disguise it. Um. Butso we want to disguise the camera on
the coyote coyotes, um, anduh, with a little luck or a
lot of luck or you know,god win the lottery luck, maybe we
(22:18):
could get the best footage ever,you know, close up clear intimate footage
of a big foot, and thatmight raise the bar good if you do.
Let's let's say that happens with threeD rendering, special effects, artificial
intelligence rendering. There's just do youthink you still be able to convince?
(22:41):
Is there a way to present rawdata in a way that it's you can
say this is purely uncorrupted? Yeah? Oh, absolutely absolutely, um ai
um cgi. It's still full ofholes. But I mean, let's just
imagine five years from now it's thatgood. Well are you will you still
(23:02):
be able to go? This ishow I can prove that my footage is
real and not artificial. Well thatthat can be done with my sebum test,
because you can't fake chemically, can'tfake complex chemical signatures. Yeah,
and in that complex chemical signature shouldbe enough skin cells to get nuclear DNA.
(23:26):
If the photography is done right,of the handprints and fingerprints, you've
got very detailed, latent details.If you get down into a close up
scale, you'll see the skin pores. Um. It's tough to fake three
D evidence. You've got to supportit three ways. Okay, so do
(23:47):
you have you actually collected a chemicalcompound that is truly anomalous yes, and
yeah, number of of samples,yes, you know, aside from those
who already have an interest in Bigfoot, like Jeff Meldrum, do you I've
shown this to other scientists and theygo, oh, that's a trig Well
yeah, of course, yeah,I talked to sciences. That's what I
do home all week, all month, That's what I've been doing for twenty
(24:11):
years. And yes, scientists knowabout this, and we're very excited to
get going on it and get atest. It took money, which was
why the Kickstarter campaign to fund someof these tests. And ultimately, I
know this project's gonna gonna clean mysavings out because there's no way the budget
(24:33):
that we raised is going to coverackdoing this dock. What's gonna help?
You know? It at least givesus a start, you know, when
we've put up another fundraising so peoplecan still contribute, you know, under
a little less pressure. Last onewas like a thirty day. This one
will be up till that the thingthing comes out. Yeah, I'm with
you that we I think we madea mistake too. Years ago when we
(24:55):
did our fundraiser Kickstarter for our MoreEqual documentary, we put that time limit
on there, and I regret that. I mean I wish we would have
kept kept it open longer. Yeah, well, we we made our goal,
so that's you know, that's thatwas nice. Way had a goal
of eighteen. We went up toI think eighty four thousand. So we've
got more than enough to get goingand get a lot of these scientific tests
(25:17):
done, start shooting sequences, getget those in the bag. Well,
knowing your your history and your productionvalue that you bring to it, if
indeed you you have some really interestingevidence to present, I'm sure it'll do
well. Yeah it should. Youknow, Um, I've gotten if I
get ten letters a week to bringback monster quests, you know I do.
(25:41):
I mean it's this constant you know, people want but they want more,
more of the work that we did. Only because here's why it stands
out. I am not a producer. I never set out to be a
producer. I was a guy thatwith a bunch of questions. I was
a while. I've researcher the producersstuff. I mean, I enjoy doing
(26:03):
it, but that's not I'm notjust like some guys today. I think
it would be really popular to doa Bigfoot show. It would be really
popular. No, I was drivenby curiosity, So I was behind every
Monster Quest episode. Everything was justget my curiosity satisfied. And that's why
they people like the shows, becauseyou know they're no more serious. Yeah,
(26:27):
but curiosity is contagious though, That'sthe thing, you know, and
when when it's sincere and when it'svoracious. I mean, people love that
Monster Quest. I like. Ilike the change of subject, you know,
from episode to episode of what isthere a reality where Monster Quest comes
back? Or some other iteration ofit. Sure, sure it could happen.
(26:48):
Yeah, we're the whole door isstill open on that. The problem
is I did a good job onMonster Request and it's still holding water.
So it's still running all over theworld right now, competing against herself right
in some ways, And that's kindof what you know, my executive producers
have said, well, geez,it's doing really good still. You know,
it's like, well, we've gotseventy episodes, what do we need
(27:11):
more? Well, Jingis come inchat has a suggestion called it cryptid Quests.
Yeah, do my own so well? Okay, so I bring up
he brings up a good point I'venever done. I've put off and been
just terrified to do any fundraising.One you're terrified of failing. Yeah.
(27:33):
Two, I've never I'm not usedto having to beg for money because it's
usually I'm backed up by a network, right, so when the budgets are
always really good, but in theend, they own the property. So
finally, you know, because ofCOVID that delayed it, and there were
some there was some discussions with somenetworks and even Imax on doing this in
(27:55):
an Imax, and when all thatstuff kind of caves in, we ended
up in the Kickstarter. But I'llbe honest, I was afraid it would
fail and end up in the Kickstartergraveyard. And that's the last place you
want to be, right Alan.Oh yeah, you start getting nervous if
you don't getting there quick enough.So but you can imagine me. You
know, I have a thirty fivethirty five year film and television career failing.
(28:21):
So now I'm on my own.I'm doing it but this but if
this is somewhat successful, then youknow, my team knows how to do
this. So maybe we can funda Monster Quest type show. And yeah,
changing the name to whatever we'll haveAllen, Allen can name it you'll
come up with the name Ellen,and we'll name it that, and then
we'll just go ahead and do it. We'll do it on our own.
(28:44):
That's cool. I love it.Yeah, I mean, hey, I
mean, Doug, if you can, if you can get even just a
little bit of activity in the mainstreamcoverage, that would be phenomenal. Yeah,
you know, I'm you know,I'm not. I'm honest with myself.
I don't think it would be uapUFO level, not at least in
the next few years. But whoknows. I mean, he never knows.
(29:07):
I mean really, Okay, soif we end up really getting a
full nuclear DNA, the entire genomecould happen because I am working with companies
at that level right now, andI'm very lucky. And these people just
kind of fell into the lab becauselike my neighbor's brother works at the you
know he's and so I'm kind ofkeep falling into those weird situations. It's
(29:32):
almost like the universe steps up andhelp you. For instance, I was
a lunch today and a man callsme about publishing a book for a friend
and find out he's like one ofthe best acoustical experts in the entire world.
But he didn't call me about that. He called me about my publishing
(29:52):
company, about getting a book publisher'sbuddy. But see, then we ended
up having two calls already. Soand he's already going to work building some
aquinili Literally he was grabbing equipment offhis shelf, acoustical equipment. Yes,
we need it, rare stuff.Yeah, that we need it. He
say, I should have one ofmy storage And while we're on the phone
(30:14):
with them, with all my myaudio people, he's pulling the stuff off
the shelf and sending photos. Youknow that. That's great. I'm glad
that you have him on board.Sometimes you'll see a video pop up and
they'll be someone listening to, youknow, an alleged or or speculated bigfoot,
you know y'all or whatever, andthen they'll say, oh, no,
(30:36):
that's a you know whatever other animal. Um. You know, are
there recordings out there that you cansay if somebody is saying that about that
recording, that they are either inknowledgeable or mistaken or or purposely misleading.
(30:56):
Well, we've got eighty five dand recordings right to pick from for Legimide
Science. We've picked out some ofthe best and the best, and there
are things there's actually math and thefundamentals on the spectrograms that are very consistent
with the bigfoot stuff where humans,even if they're a voice and you know,
(31:22):
imitator, they cannot do these theycannot remove these fundamentals. There's some
dual tonal stuff. There's a wholegroup of fundamentals missing. We are not
only going to have some of thebest audio people looking at it, but
we're going to explain it to theaudience so they all get it and so
(31:45):
they can then take you any recordingin the future and use legimiad science as
a reference to compare their You know, we're really going to go deep into
this stuff, but we're going todo it in a in a light bulb
light bulb going off way, youknow, so dual tone like like a
harmonic coming from the same source somewhere, yeah, somewhere in the throat singing.
(32:09):
If you've heard throat singing, yea, yeah, like Mongolian, yeah
right, and you kind of wonderwhy did throat singing start. And of
course one theory is they heard itin bigfoot calls because they're all from the
all these areas that throats singing originatedare all in Bigfoot areas or Yetti areas
(32:31):
or whatever you're interesting. And somaybe they heard these dual tonal calls and
they were trying to mimic them.Then wouldn't they're mimicking, whether in song
or otherwise today, wouldn't that bea call to to the the Bigfoot or
(32:52):
Yetti? Would would they not respondto that? I don't. I don't
even know. See, here's thething, the throats singing people they don't
want to talk about it. Sowe're we're working on that whole end right
now because there is going to besome throat singers in this For instance,
UM, there's a man, he'sone of the he's got the lowest voice
(33:14):
in the world right He's in theGuinness World Book of Records. He's like
one of the only humans in theworld that can do UM sound into the
infrasound range and even way below,way below twenty hurts. He can get
down to like you know, pointthree hurts. And that's been proven and
documented. UM. And so we'regoing to even for him. He's agreeing
(33:36):
to let us do it. Iwas on the phone with him today.
We're gonna put a camera through hissinuses and we're going to see how he's
creating infrasound. Okay, yeah,okay, so this right, so this
has this has been done before withhim ever, No, no, no,
And he agreed to do it,and I said, I said,
(33:57):
I go, Tim, why areyou willing to let us do this kind
of painful? Because I let himdo it to me, right um,
I went to an the NDNM doit to me and to find somebody who
would do it to him, andI've got somebody lined up, okay,
And he did it. It wasone of the most painful, nasty things
I've ever experienced, having this camerasnake through your sinuses, through your skull,
(34:19):
and then down into your throat,through the back of your throat.
It's just horrid. I mean,it's like right out of like being abducted
from it by aliens type terrible,you know what I mean. So anyhow,
I asked, I said to him, where are you willing to go
through with this? And he goesbecause I saw a big foot and I'm
(34:42):
like, oh my god, noway, that's the thing, right yeah,
god no, I was just gonnasay he was not only they see
when him and his buddy got towatch it for quite a while because it
was catching fish. They were ona railroad trestle and they were you know,
they had walked all the stressle andsat down quietly, not wanted to
spook the fish. Here it comesa big foot. It's catching fish below
(35:07):
them, So they got to watchit do all this stuff without you know
it knowing about them. And sohe's like totally into this, right,
right, So there you go,and once against that universe kind of steps
up to help you sometimes, doyou know what though You're You're right though,
Ian and the things You kind ofhave to be open to it because
sometimes the universe isn't working for you, and that might that might be a
(35:30):
sign in and of itself. Right, you weren't right, But I got
a call already. Um last timeI didn't legend me since when I got
a call about some really unique footagebecause the creature was completely out the open,
running across the mountain. That wasthe Memile Day footage. No one
had ever seen it. It wasbrand new, and I'm like, oh
crap. Because I kept analyzing lookingat it, and all of a sudden
(35:52):
the end there's a baby that likedarts up on its own on the back,
and I thought, oh, andthere's no way the hands are at
this side. As it walked rightinto the woodline. It this thing just
pops up on his own. Andum, so I thought, well,
I'm gonna map the whole mountain forlegimide science to get the speed of the
(36:13):
creature, the height. And soI hired all this lighter people to you
know, basically map um this uhmountain. And it was complex, but
it was you know, it's agreat sequence in the in the film.
It's entertaining. I hired an Olympicrunner to run the same exact course this
(36:34):
creature ran. Who can win?Then? Right, you put the footage
side by side and you see who'swinning the race. So there you go.
Very cool. Have you ever heardof the Bulgarian voices? No,
I haven't listen. I'm definitely listening. Nollen. Yeah, go go check
it out. It's okay, holdon, I'm gonna write it down.
Bulgaria Mystery voices. Yeah, it'svery enchanting. Um, it's almost like
(37:00):
the opposite end of the mongolian Um. Chance. Well, here's here's why
why you just gotta I just gottachill, because the natives talk about these
mystery voices too, and they callit UM. I'm gonna give you the
English interpretation, but basically, syllablewhispering is the English interpretation of the natives.
(37:22):
Like um, like the hoop onthe year rock, they would call
it syllable whispering. They would hearthem. They would be at a you
know, a fire whatever, talkingand all of a sudden they would hear
whatever mimic them on the forest.Okay, is this similar to that kind
of a uh No, No,it's it's much more vocal, much more
(37:43):
um. In fact, when youhear it, and you'll you'll you'll recognize
that you've probably heard it in moviesin part of background music UM or orchestral
music. I really really beautiful.It's just very enchanting. UM. So
yeah, I just wondered if ifindeed the throat singers UM, you know,
are inspired by by Bigfoot. Imean, some of the awls we've
(38:07):
heard are on a much um higherpitch as well. Yeah, they see
you have a very big range.Yeah that's that's amazing. But no matter
what the range is, there's thismissing fundamental and UM, like the Olympic
Project has gone so far into hiringvoice actors to try to duplicate certain things.
(38:28):
They can't. It shows up human. So David's got David Ellis has
got me trained. I can justlook at a spectrogram, goll that's human,
just like that. Bam. Youknow it's really easy to tell what's
human or not that what's big foot? Right, it's a it's a it's
a signature. Yeah, it's definitelya certain exact thing. And the idea
is to make it very calm andvery easy to understand. And did not
(38:51):
only get the guy interested in it'slight bulb to go off and how to
do it and understand it, butthe skeptic to get them to go h
Maybe I should reconsider this because skeptics, you know, some of them can't
be convinced no matter what you do. You could PLoP a body right in
front of them, they wouldn't believeit. Or um, there's ile'd say
(39:14):
a pretty good percentage of them thatare still willing to be swayed. You
know, they're open minded skeptics.Well, I mean, Jane goodall for
goodness sake is open open minded today, right, I mean that's and this
is someone who lived close quarters likeunderstands yea in uh apes And well even
(39:35):
that bringsis to this question. Sowhere where do you stand with the theory
of what a big foot is?I would say that I'm open to any
damn thing. But I do knowthey leave here. Um, they leave
fingerprints. Um, you can recordtheir audio. So that's kind of where
I just have to just, youknow, just accept that. And if
(39:59):
you know so, but he thinksthey're metaphysical, doesn't interfere with what I'm
doing. Um, if somebody thinksthey're spirits, well maybe I have no
hope. But yet, how doyou explain footprint casts you know that are
very legitimate? Um? So Iyou know, I tend to just go
with the you know, some typeof a very humanized primate, maybe even
(40:22):
smarter than we are. We don't. I don't know. So I'm just
open minded. Ellen, I don't. I don't have a clue. I
know less, not a less nowthan I ever than I ever knew.
I think you're more confident when youstart out, But every time I seem
to get an opinion, I gethumbled. You know, I've been outsmarted
by these things in some of themost obvious ways where they've come and tested
(40:45):
a trap of mine just to tripit, and they knew what they were
doing, and they did things toscare people away from the area while they
tested the trap, and these thingslike that over and over and over,
and just like, oh, man, you guys are smart. Yeah,
and Doug, I think you justmade a kind of a good point when
(41:07):
you first came to investigating this.Like so many other people in the power
normal cryptanziological world, there's this ideathat maybe if I give it a crack,
maybe if I try to do somethinga little bit different, I can
I can solve this and it doesn'tnecessarily have to be out of ego,
just pure enth enthusiasm and a desireto do it. And then you find
out, oh, this is notgoing to be as easy as I thought.
(41:29):
And I think that that's probably whathappens to a lot of scientists.
I think probably scientists or skeptics cometo this and they're like, I don't
know, I can't. They justdon't want to commit to that long term
study, right, Yeah, No, it's true, and they you know,
they don't want to be laughed at, and they don't want to be
lose their job or their status,and certainly everybody's afraid of be laughed at.
(41:51):
Yeah, but I think also justfrustration, like like I don't know
what to do with this thing.Have you heard of zoo Book? Uh?
No, I don't think. Okay, zoo book. I'll beginning together
this Thursday with zoo book. Andzoo book is a whole bunch of scientists,
zookeepers, animal biologists, researchers toyou know, these are not bigfoot
(42:15):
people. Is it a website?No? No, no, no no?
What is a secret meaning that happensevery other Thursday? Oh well,
that's why I don't know of anonymousscientists that are interested in the topic but
not willing to go public yet.And the group is growing and growing and
(42:37):
growing. I just brought two newscientists in last week, for instance,
into this group of all different disciplines, and it's just wonderful to sit there
in this Now we're all anonymous,right, and we can all discuss the
science of bigfoot and then you know, the ups and the downs and this
(42:59):
and then just see everything and it'sjust really cool. And we do it
on a zoom meeting, And dude, is it just bigfoot. Yeah,
just bigfoot, bigfoot. That kindof simplifies it. That make that makes
sense? Um, well that's exciting. Do you see do you see a
future where some of these scientists willpeel off and oh I know, so
I've already got a couple to peeloff. Okay, yeah, yeah,
(43:22):
that'll that'll be It'll be in LEGImeansime be interviewed, you know on camel
nice Okay, yeah, yeah.And you mentioned intelligence too, So I
don't think intelligence is is this astrict necessarily a strict linear measurement of level
level another of another. I thinkthere are different types of intelligences. Like
(43:43):
dolphins are extraordinarily intelligent. Their braindevelops particularly in one sort of way.
So it to me that would explainif we get about line, well can
you can you or I make asonar and create three D images and sonar?
No, they have a super abilityand their brains. Yes, they
(44:04):
have a huge brain. So abigfoot, I believe, has got a
number of superabilities like a dolphin,and it's far more intelligent than we are
in the woods. In the woodsright. No, they're not going to
run your Mac computer. It's adifferent you know, we all possess our
own That's where everybody needs to respecteach other because we all have our own
gifts. We all have our owntalents. You know, you're you have
(44:28):
your talents. Somebody else might bea great painter, or somebody might have
all sorts of talents, and somebodymight just have, you know, one
that's they don't even know about.But the point is bigfoots have got certain
talents and we have to respect thoseum and and feel humbled as they humble
me over and over and show methese woods wise talents that they have.
(44:52):
That doesn't mean that they're you know, they're gonna be you know, assembling
a car. You know, it'sit's a very very specific superability um talent
um. I think they have asuperability. One of them's strength, just
great strength. That's a superability.Right now? Are they how much more
(45:14):
intelligent do you think they are thanthan a gorilla? Let's say, because
they can evade our technology, havean awareness there, yep um. I
think gorillas are extremely intelligent. Theyjust have a very Gorillas are a little
bit more in the laid back,you know, they're they they aren't roam
where big foots I believe Rome quitea bit. Is certainly in a you
(45:36):
know, depending on where they liveagain in the Pacific Northwest. I don't
think they roam very far because it'skind of warm and temperate there all the
time, up the mountain, downthe mountain. That's maybe yet Minnesota.
The ones that come here probably traveledup the Saint Croy Valley the Mississippi River
Valley to get here, probably followingripinging favorite foods and things. And so
(45:59):
there are central bandfoot and now Idon't remember your question, Allen, so
well, no, just about intelligence? Oh yeah, how much more intelligent
are they? Oh, compared toguerrillas? Well, I'm sure they're right
in there. I think that they'reprobably more so, only because I think
(46:19):
we've we've proven we can we canhabituate guerrillas. We've proven that. But
although there hasn't been really any effort, I wouldn't say there's been much effort
in the US or North America tohabituate bigfoots um. I think that's you
know, certainly a next step.And I have talked to scientists that mainstream
(46:40):
scientists about doing it, and they'vepretty much the ones I've talked to said,
if you can get me fund andI'll do it for a year.
And these are people who have alreadybeen like worked under Diane Foss, they
have got habituation training. Then theywould do it if I can just get
them the fund. So there's gonnabe some new kickstarters probably happening. But
(47:06):
it's really cool when a mainstream afield biologists like that can go I'll do
it. Yeah, I'll live inthe forest for a year as long as
my bills get paid back home.That's impressive. I mean that would be
quite the fun ryal though, ofcourse yeah well yeah, yeah, no,
and I think it's quite doable.But so I want to just prove
(47:28):
myself with this project to get everybody'sconfidence level. Yeah, I think it
is good because it's because a monsterrequest, but still, you know,
get everybody's confidence level that I cando some good things with the money and
then maybe, um we'll do anotherfilm or a series and maybe at the
same time, I can you know, work on getting a really credible field
(47:50):
scientist fund into um you know,just to live in the middle of nowhere
and see if they can get thetrust. You do. You have hair
samples with you that you just arewaiting to get tested lots. Yeah,
what about those those um the samplesthat have been tested in the past and
we heard something like, oh,we only have um mitochondrial or yeah,
(48:14):
so what's the deal with that?Why is that somewhat inconclusive? Well,
because, um, yeah, thefirst the first go to is the mitochondrial
because you know, um, bigfoothairs don't have a lot of them madala,
which is where most of the DNAis. So hair really works,
but they generally just get a realshort sequence of the mitochondria. Mitochondrial could
(48:37):
be great, tell a big story, but you need a big sequence of
it. So what they do isthey just get that human part of it
and they see that and they go, well, it's human. I had
a Freeman, you know, PaulFreeman. One of his hairs he collected
now under a microscope, those hair. It's got a tapered end. Never
(48:58):
been it's never been cut ever,Right, Okay, So once you cut
your hair, I don't care ifthirty years agoes by, it's gonna have
that blunt end not been cuts.A little more whispeed, it's got probably
less scaling human scaling, but lessscales around the outside Nomadola from Paul Freeman.
It's coupled with the footage, right, so it's you know, it's
(49:22):
a little more credible. Um.And I get it tested and I expect
it to come back human. Um. I gave it to Uma Scott Walt
for America on Earth. They testedit, you know that show on History
Channel. So he tested Scott Waltercame took it from me, and it
(49:45):
came back. And Scott thought,well, I got dog go it's human.
It's what I That's what I expectedit to be. But what kind
of human has hair that long thatyou find out in the forest that's never
been cut as nomadola? Right,and it's got a little bit of moss
(50:05):
growing on it? You follow me? Yeah, Now you know that's interesting.
Is there is there a way todetect some kind of biochemical um,
I don't know, artifact when youhave a different types of let's say hair
(50:25):
in this case right, reacting tomoss or some other outside you know,
natural agent. Is there any kindof biochemical biproduct that you could look at
and say, oh, if itwas human hair, it wouldn't react in
this way or vice versas. Yeah, there's there's one experiment that they didn't.
(50:47):
I thought it was complete BS,right, they seem real confident about
it. I thought it was BS. And that was a hair that I
collected up at the snow Grove Lakeyhabbin not if you're familiar with that.
The cabin got attacked several times whenI was there and other people were there.
Jeff Meldron was there. It happened, well, well there was it's
(51:10):
it's in Sasquatch attack two. Therewas a rod case thrown at the cabin.
Very We woke everybody up through thepicnic table, which you know,
two men can harmly left and wecollected it snagged down his zip tie one
hair once again wavy, very thin, tapered and no mandala. The morphology
(51:34):
Sasquatch all day long, right,I bet my life on it. Get
it and tested it. And theythought they could do this test um chemical
you know, so they thought,well, human hair um would absorb bleach
or not not bleach blueing some bluedye if it had been like shampoos and
(52:00):
processing, you know what I mean. More, it's gonna be more a
porous. It's been a long time. Sorry, it's gonna absorb blue dye.
So they put it in blue dye. Well, they wreck the freaking
hair for stuff, and of coursean absorb blue guy. Well I'm sorry,
(52:20):
grab some blue and take any hair. I don't care who it is
on the planet, a newborn baby, even then it's gonna absorb blue dye.
Oh yeah, I mean you candie anything. All hair is porus,
right, exactly. Yeah, it'snot like yeah, I mean not
dealing with like solution dyed nylon versusyou know, pain or something, um
um. So they came to theconclusion it's human here based on that.
(52:45):
Well, really, did you lookat the morphology of their No, they
never do. Yeah, even thoughyou tell them to, or they'll promise
they're going to, in most casesthey won't. But I've got a little
different relationship this time. I'm we'regonna it's gonna be a bigger deal.
Yeah, so we'll see. Itdoesn't mean I will get let down in
our audience will get let down.But we're not just testing one here at
(53:08):
one lab. Okay, it's gonnabe a whole bunch of stuff, and
it's all you know, the stuffI'm testing has all been vetted by me
and not poly Heart. The intimatepolyester by the way. Oh yeah,
but all right, So is thereany anything out there that stands right now
that you would point to and golike this is the best, whether it
(53:29):
be audio or a video or anyother kind of evidence. Um to me,
I still think it's the sebum samplesthat we've collected. Yeah, I
think it's gonna offer the most interestand hope because there should be there should
be skin cells to get nuclear DNA, not not mitochonderal, but nuclear which
is from the father um. Andwe should be able to get the entire
(53:52):
sequence. We should because the genbanks are so good now, not early
humans on people and everything should justcome together. We're on Praine, you
know. Jingis says maybe someone inZoo Book will help with the hair.
Yes, yes, and no,I've already got kind of commitments. And
(54:14):
I don't think we have any geneticistsin there. There's people that do it
like they may be like a marinebiologist, right and they do their marine
genetic testing. But yeah, that'sactually you know, I'll tell you what
I'll do in my next meeting,which is this Thursday. I Am going
to ask everybody in Zoo Book.Sometimes on everybody attends so you never know
(54:36):
whether you're getting a you know,full answer me. Yeah, it's a
good idea. I guess I haven'tdone that, all right. Cool,
And so we're at the end ofthe show. You can leave us with
one thought, Doug, what wouldit be? Monsters are real? I
think that's the thought that dominates hermind, isn't it. Yeah, Yeah,
monsters are real. Monsters are real. So all monsters, I mean,
(54:59):
what what we are? Dragons?All monsters, All monsters are real.
I kind of believe that, Okay, I feel you. I kind
of do, because do people reallyreport things they don't see on a regular
basis? That's the thing, right, because what is there to gain.
There's nothing to gain. People aren'treporting unicorns. And that's why when you
(55:23):
hear these accounts of Bigfoot with metaphysicalattributes, it it makes it curious.
Yeah, that could have been bothsomething physical and you know, well,
think to think of the most,think of the amazing universe we live in
and just our earthier. It isso amazing the amount of creatures. I
(55:44):
keep seeing new creatures every day I'venever seen and I research this stuff.
Yeah again, it's just like wehave like what um one point eight million
we know about. We're like halfwaythere, yeah, and other two million
creatures to discover yet, right,how many what's the number of number of
(56:04):
discoveries we have? I think itis one point eight million that we know
about every creatures. No, no, no, not even you're total total.
But you know, every year theydiscover more mammals, more creatures,
more insects, more plants. Imean, we live in an amazing complex
world, amazing complex universe. I'veseen things that you know, um,
(56:28):
kind of humbled me and I'm like, yeah, monsters are really Yeah,
I'm talking about the ones that arereported on a regular basis. Well,
you know, after you do thisnext documentary, Yeah, sasquatch, that
legend meets science too. Do youthink you are dip your toe in Homo
floresiensis Yeah, I mean that wouldbe really cool because you do something like
(56:52):
that. Yeah, there's there's someeven people you know that have been seeing
the little hobbits and yeah up untilpretty recent times. Yeah, yeah,
I gotta be a fun documentary todo. I'm really curious about it.
Um you know, um yeah,I think it'd be very challenging, super
challenging, and I can tell youone thing, I'm not living in the
(57:14):
jungles won't be me. I'll goout there for all ten days is my
living. I'm coming home. That'swhy you're the producer. I'll leave like
Adam Davies, there there for acouple of months. Awesome, Doug,
thank you so much for joining usto night. I really really appreciate it.
Everyone listening. If you want tofind out more about Doug, go
to Hanger one Publishing dot com,Slash Products, Slash Legend, Dash Meat
(57:38):
Stash Signs too, or just goto Hanger one Publishing dot com and you'll
find the documentary there. Wow.What a great conversation. Thanks so much
for joining Doug again, I reallyappreciate it, and thank you all for
hanging out on this specialistic lounge episodeTuesday night rather than a Thursday night.
I do have another Coffee in UFOsepisode coming soon, and just to let
everybody know, the next several months, episodes will be spread out much further.
(58:04):
Part just got a lot of stuffgoing on in personal life and then
also working on another project, andyou know, we'll see how that comes
to fruition. I'll keep you updated. So peace and loves you all Thanks
so much everyone for joining the chatand I love you guys and until next
time, everyone special thanks to RaceHobbs and Margie Kay on Next Network and
I'll catch you on the flip sidelive in the Mystery
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.