August 30, 2024 • 57 mins
Strange and funny-ish is the paranormal world! Joining me is a great storyteller and Hudson Valley native, Thomm Quakenbush! Thomm was born in Cold Spring, NY. He is an American author of speculative fiction including his Night's Dream series. He lives and teaches in the Mid-Hudson Valley of New York. https://thommquackenbush.com/
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Quakenbush grew up reading the works of Kurt Vonnegut, Neil Gaiman, Anne Rice, and Terry Pratchett. He later became a fan of humorous non-fiction, such as the works of David Sedaris and Bill Bryson, all of which has informed his style. He was raised in the Hudson Valley during the famous UFO Flap on the middle 1980s, igniting an interest in the paranormal, causing him to read widely about fortean phenomena. Additionally, he devoted himself to pagan religions in childhood, giving him a wide background in supernatural theories and the particulars of witchcraft, which he incorporates heavily in his works, most notably the Night's Dream series. In 2010, he received his contract for We Shadows. He subsequently published three sequels and has several others in the works. In 2011, SyFy Channel solicited the rights to We Shadows, though the deal did not proceed further. He has worked on comics with DC Comics artist Dezi Sienty under the now-defunct label of Cave Drawing Ink. He is known for askew takes on commonplace myths and the history of the Hudson Valley.
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LIKE, share your thoughts, and subscribe to support the Mystic Lounge channel!
Please leave a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you!
Quakenbush grew up reading the works of Kurt Vonnegut, Neil Gaiman, Anne Rice, and Terry Pratchett. He later became a fan of humorous non-fiction, such as the works of David Sedaris and Bill Bryson, all of which has informed his style. He was raised in the Hudson Valley during the famous UFO Flap on the middle 1980s, igniting an interest in the paranormal, causing him to read widely about fortean phenomena. Additionally, he devoted himself to pagan religions in childhood, giving him a wide background in supernatural theories and the particulars of witchcraft, which he incorporates heavily in his works, most notably the Night's Dream series. In 2010, he received his contract for We Shadows. He subsequently published three sequels and has several others in the works. In 2011, SyFy Channel solicited the rights to We Shadows, though the deal did not proceed further. He has worked on comics with DC Comics artist Dezi Sienty under the now-defunct label of Cave Drawing Ink. He is known for askew takes on commonplace myths and the history of the Hudson Valley.
PLEASE HELP THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL GROW ☕️ SUBSCRIBE, like, comment, and click the Notification Bell so you don’t miss a show. Thank you! https://www.youtube.com/mysticlounge
HALF LIGHT documentary: https://tubitv.com/movies/678744/half-light
Check out other fantastic Un-X shows at https://www.unxnetwork.com/show
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to Mystic Lounge with Alan B. Smith, rebroadcast
on the ONEX Network Thursdays at eleven pm Pacific Fridays
at two a m. Eastern.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It has been quite a while since we've done a
live stream, so thank you so much for joining us.
I have a very special guest on tonight. His name
is Tom Kuackenbush, and he is from New York State,
Hudson Valley, and he is a New York high strangest
researcher and writer. In fact, I wouldn't corner him to
(00:42):
just New York. I think he has a wide array
of knowledge regarding cryptozoology, the paranormal, UFOs, metaphysics, all of
which can obviously be found here in the New York
Hudson Valley. So we'll speak to Tom in just a moment.
As a friendly reminder, if you like tonight's show and
other Mystic Lounge streams like Coffee and UFOs, please subscribe
(01:06):
and like to help support the channel. You can also
follow for show updates on at Paranormal Now, on Instagram
and on Facebook at Paranormal Underscore Now. And I'm spending
a less time on X and more time on threads
so to run threads. Please go there. I'll be posting
more and more updates for you as well. All right,
(01:27):
so we've got let's see, oh okay, so imminent the
book by lou Alissando. I don't know how many of
you have gotten the book yet or have started reading it.
I'm almost finished, and I can't recommend it to you
more highly. It is a really insightful take on how
(01:53):
uap UFO phenomena and otherwise, because we know that there
is interest in sky Skinwalker Ranch through the AFSAP Investigative body,
through the eyes of the defense intelligence community. And I
just want to say this one thing about the book,
which many of you have probably heard about already. We've
(02:17):
discussed over the years that there tends to be two
factions in the UFO cover up. We keep hearing that
over two factions, two factions, two factions, Well what does
that mean? According to Luel Zondo, that means there is
one group, which he calls the Collins Elite, which apparently
are generals, military higher ups that are religious zealots, extreme
(02:44):
fundamentalists that are one convinced that UFOs visiting this planet
are demons. They're not actually extraterrestrials. They're not interdimensionals, They're
not anything of the like, and they are doing all
that they can to cover this up. Now, what's their motive?
Why try to cover it up? Are they trying to
(03:05):
despite fight some spiritual battle on the side. I don't know.
I obviously don't subscribe to that theory, But the fact
that there are people in our US government that are
making public safety and decisions based on their interpretation of
(03:29):
a phenomenon, based on their interpretation of religion, I find
very scary. However, we have heard there's another faction, and
the other faction wants to get this information out, and
maybe that includes someone like Harry Reid, who really got
this bill passed which included the offset funding the initial
(03:53):
twenty million to get that going two million. So how
long is this going to take? When is the one
faction going to outweigh the other? I don't know, but
I definitely would love to hear all your thoughts about
the book and what you think about lou and his message.
(04:14):
So enough about that. That's probably the biggest thing in
the news. There's lots of the cover, but I definitely
want to bring on our special guest Tom Quackenbush. Tom,
Welcome to Mistic Lounge.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
I'm good, It's good to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, thanks, thanks for coming on. So as we were
chatting before, I first heard you speak at the Pine
Bush UFO Fair here in New York, New York State,
Hudson Valley, and I absolutely loved your presentation. You bring
a flare to the subject that is filled with a
(04:50):
little bit of whimsy, but you'd also take the subject
very seriously. So I'm really curious how did you start
and what you fascinated in the subject in the first place.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
See, I'm not one hundred percent sure what I'm interested
because basically, once I started being able to read, I
gravitated toward UFO books, ghost books, and maybe it's you know,
I was marinating in the Hudson Valley phenomena even when
I was five. Maybe there was just something out there.
You know, kids are very intuitive and they pick up things,
(05:21):
So maybe there was something that happened that just led
my interest.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Okay, And was there a particular moment that where grabbed you?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think so I have this story that I tell
and this would have happened probably nineteen eighty seven or
eighty eight, you know, mid to late December, because we
were coming home from my cousin Phil's birthday party and
I saw a like a giant triangle floating over I
(05:56):
know exactly where I saw it was by the old
Texaco and I looked out the window and I was
shouting to my parents, who were driving me home, saying,
you know, there it is. And I said, all right,
well now things are going to change. I remember looking
at the newspaper, you know, I'm like, where are the stories?
And then I just sort of let it fade away.
(06:17):
And then decades later I brought this up and my
parents said, we don't remember that. We don't remember that happening.
And so I looked and I cannot find that sighting
anywhere else, and certainly the whole Hudson value of folk Lap,
you know, we were still interested as a community, and
for some reason that didn't get reported. So I don't.
(06:40):
I can't. It seems too vivid to be a dream.
But that's sort of what I'm left with. But after that,
you know, I was a confirmed believer because again I
saw the ship. I saw something, so it had to
be real.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
It had to be real. And you also have been
studying this for a long long time. So in that process,
have you seen any other subsequent UFOs?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Sadly, nothing too convincing. When I was researching, when I
was driving around Pine Bush, I was with the whole
car was packed, and I looked out the back window
and I saw three lights rise up from the woods
kind of turn on their end, and then, well, I say, disappear,
(07:31):
but we kept driving. I told my friend pull over,
you know, and she refused because she was afraid that
she would be arrested. There was a myth sort of
that if your skywatching in Pine Bush, the police will
come and get you, which is sort of true, like
that's if you're parked on the side of the road
and your wheels are touching the road, because people during
(07:54):
the height of the Pindrish phenomena would just sort of
park and set fires. So that wasn't gonna happen. But
she refused to stop. But she did have like a
mini camcorder that was filming. Unfortunately, since she wouldn't stop
moving and it was a low quality camera, there was
(08:15):
nothing on the video. She watched it, she shrugged. She
deleted it, which I hate because nowadays I'm sure, we
could run it through something and get something.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So you think that there would have been something captured
that modern day software could could find through filters or
what have your word. But is it possible that there
wouldn't be something there if and do you think this?
Do you think that UFOs can actually interfere with our
capturing devices?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I have heard that, and I think we see a
lot of evidence of that, or lack of evidence of
that where people try. In Silent Invasion by doctor Ellen Crystal,
she suggests that UFOs can intentionally mess with the emulsion
of film, so you can take set your camera up,
take a picture and get nothing. Also, she took almost
(09:09):
a religious perspective on them, that if you asked permission,
the UFO might allow you to take a picture of it.
But yeah, we do see a lot of people where
you know, their cameras working fine, they go to take
a picture and their phone dies, their camera dies, they
get nothing but radiation or nothing, you know, perfect picture before,
(09:31):
perfect picture after when it's supposed to be the UFO nothing.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Well speaking of and Llewell's not actually wrote this in
the book, but it was just reading he you know,
he and others have theorized that around these uap there
sometimes appear to be kind of a distortion, right, and
the thought is that if there is a time distortion,
a gravitational distortion, that that could actually affect what the
(10:00):
camera is actually able to pick up, and it creates
these kind of blurry and seemingly undefined videos when they
otherwise should because sometimes you look at something with your
eye and look very clear, and you're like just not
showing up on camera the way you're seeing it. Of course,
there is the technological aspect that I could see something
in the night sky with a much better definition than
(10:22):
my cell phone, can you know, using the zoom three
four times digital zoom.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I mean, the moon is beautiful when I look at
the window, and it's a little dot when I look
on my phone. So that is a celestial object that
is very concrete. We have that experience all the time,
and so it sort of makes sense that, you know,
we have this numinous experience, we have this object up there,
and we can get nothing filmed.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, you know, tonight I wore this shirt in particular,
it's my big Foot T shirt Hide and Seek World Champion,
which I think there might be some truth to that,
and I'm wondering, what do you think here in the
Hudson Valley there are researchers. You know, we both know
(11:09):
Gale and yeah, and it's not often that you hear
local folklore about Bigfoot, but there are plenty of researchers
that actually go out into the woods and into the
hills here and seem to find what they believe is
evidence of Bigfoot. What's your take on that? Are are
(11:32):
they reading into it or do you really think that
there's actual evidence for this?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I am not sure, which I don't want that to
be a cop out answer, but you know, I've gone
to several of Gail Beattie's presentations and she is always like,
I took a picture, and this pixelated mass is the
best I could get. I went to a preparation meeting
maybe ten years ago, and there was a gentleman there
(11:59):
I forget his name, and he's like, oh, I have
these great pictures. I have this great audio recording and
I saw some of it. I'm like, this is glorious
and he's like, yeah, I'm not going to share that.
And I was very frustrated by that. So there are
and I mean, Gail herself says that she has some
excellent evidence, but she's promised not to reveal it.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And why would you promise not to reveal it?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I think just the Maybe it was the people she
filmed it with that they did not want it shared,
which you can sort of understand, like you don't want
to have your backyard become a tourist attraction. Necessarily okay,
fair enough, and it's also.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Not could you not take evidence off the property and
just not you know, yeah, and present it otherwise?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
You know, I've heard I've heard people say that this
is a phenomena that wants to be researched, but it
does not want to be proven. That if we actually
could get that good picture, you know, if we could
get that picture of an alien or a bigfoot where
that's definitive, people would just sort of shrug it off,
which I think is true, like we shrug off amazing
(13:06):
things constantly, but that this is I don't know, one
gets almost spiritual about this, like what the phenomena wants.
And you know, years ago I went to a Pine
Bush UFO support group meeting and there was a gentleman
from MUFAN and he said, the bigfoots the aliens, the ghosts,
they're all in it together. And I'm like, well, that's
(13:27):
a ridiculous thing to say. Let me write that down.
But then the more I research, I'm like, no, it's true,
because you see people who like they see a UFO
and then a year later they're like, and there's a
bigfoot now right, and I have psychic powers? Now where
did that come from? So there's a quote, no, please
(13:47):
go on, Well, I.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Was gonna say the whole psychic power thing. We hear
that a lot. But the problem with psychic power is
it's really hard to prove. It's hard to prove that
I haven't improved intuition. So do you really think that
people are actually getting their brain stimulated in some way?
Or is it a more spiritual evolution.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I think it could sort of be like both of those,
where you have this experience and it is almost religious,
and so then you start doing more research. And it
could also be like we're talking about energy and you
hear about UFOs aliens talking people's heads like that's how
they communicate. So maybe that just turns something on. We
(14:32):
have all sorts of modules in our brains that we
aren't really using, so maybe.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Right, Okay, so let's go down that road. And there's
a lot to cover this idea that there might be
some kind of motivation behind the mystique, that behind the
fact that they plague essentially kind of peekaboo, right, Like
it's they show themselves just for a flicker of a
(14:59):
second and then that they're gone. They allow themselves to
get captured just enough to keep it tantalizing, but then
they're gone. If they're doing that purposefully, if there is
some kind of concerted effort, what can we read into that,
what's the motivation and who and what would be doing that?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Well, it's almost flattering to think that we must be
important to them if they're willing to put on this
show for us.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Or they're just having fun picking on us.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
That's true. Yeah, they're bored.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
This is like, oh, these silly, naive humans.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So yeah, I mean I do think that. I mean,
Carl Jung has his book UFOs where he posits that, yes,
this is real, but it's also a psychic phenomenon. It's
originating from within us, and so we are seeing something
that's like being reflected back that way. But yeah, I'm so.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
The way are you saying that that is coming. We
are the creators of the phenomena.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
We are at least the collaborators with the phenomena that
we are giving something. It's giving us this much, we're
giving it back.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
YEA.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
One thing I point out, going back to Bigfoot, when
I was reading those elementary school Bigfoot books, this was
an undiscovered hominid. And now you hear stories about Bigfoot
can teleport, he can melt into other dimensions. He is bulletproof.
And so we are increasing the myth. And as we
(16:34):
increase the myth, we see it diverging. You know, we
have the myth of the grays. Like even people who
are not interested in UFOs will never read a UFO book.
They know what a gray is. They can draw a gray.
So that's giving a lot of energy to that concept,
which makes it stronger. And it's like a feedback cycle.
(16:55):
So you know something you know in my novels, this
is how it works too, that things want to be
wants your focus, but they don't want to be proven
because being proven would let them is like toxic. Like
you know, we proved things and dissect them.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, ah okay, So it's almost like our analytical and
cold scientific approach to the phenomena is almost an insult
to the phenomena.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, I think so, and that they're just they're not
something that can be proven. I know John Keel talked
about that they are ultra terrestrials, that all of these
you know, the whole phenomena like bigfoots, whatever you want, cryptids,
that they're all just sort of how a bigger creature
can poke into our dimension, like, oh, you want us
(17:54):
to wear this mask, we can wear this mask for you.
But that's not you know, what we're saying is a
bigfoot is just sort of a monkey suit, because then
we can pay attention to it in its natural form.
It's beyond us.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
We have a question from Maria, what intel could they
be gathering watching us?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
There's a good question, really good question. I mean, you know,
you see going back, you know, fairies and such, the
whole like fairy abduction is like alien abduction.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
So this phenomena, whatever it is, has been going on
for centuries millennia, has always been with us, and so
you'd think that whatever intel they needed, they'd gotten, but
they haven't. You know, it's ongoing. You know, the form
changes and maybe in a thousand years would be like, oh,
(18:48):
how quaint. They thought they were UFOs, they thought there
were aliens when there really is whatever the phenomena has
evolved to at that point. So I don't know what
they're getting from us, but they're still in trusted, they're
still watching us, they're still interfering.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
In the Hudson Valley. There was a flap in the eighties,
which you recall. What was that like for you at
that time?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Well, I was unfortunately young, and so I knew about it,
but it was very hazy. You know, I've gone back,
I've read Night Siege, I've interviewed people in the area
who have had who have had experiences as vivid as
the one that I'm not sure I had, And so
(19:30):
these are very most of them are very serious people
that they're not trying to get attention. You know, you
have pilots, you have astronomers who saw it looked up
and yes, you have people who are like, that is
an airplane, And I've heard some reports and I'm like, well, yeah,
that was an airplane. You may not know that was
an airplane, but that was an airplane what you're describing.
(19:53):
But then there are a lot that were not The
whole Hudson Valley phenomena is a mire because there are
you know, there were hoaxers, and sure the ultra lights,
but the ultra light explanation doesn't actually make sense, you know, one,
the way that they flew probably would have been illegal,
(20:13):
but would be dangerous and could not explain everything that happened.
There were people who saw the Hudson Valley the Westchester Boomerang,
and then later saw the ultra lights and they're like, yeah,
those are the ultra lights. I know the difference.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Oh can you describe ultra lights?
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Okay? Ultra lights are basically hang gliders with lawnmower engines
on them. You know, they are not They're not a
sort of thing they could really fly in formation the
excuse the stormbilled flyers they said they were They said, oh, yeah,
we had colored lights and we would turn them on
and off to make people think that they were seeing things,
(20:51):
which again is not a good explanation. But yeah, they're
not anything fancy and they're not anything quiet. And the
Westchester boomerang was always reported as you know, a very
low hum or, nothing at all, And this was by
thousands of people at a time, so you know, and
(21:12):
a lot of the excuses like there's also like, oh,
maybe Stewart Air Force Base was testing the stealth bomber.
Would you do that over a populated area? Absolutely not,
And Stuart's like, no, we weren't. That did not happen.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
That was not us, right, And that's not something they
would need to lie about because they're open about the
fact that they were testing anyway, So it doesn't make
a difference.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Now.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
You probably recall the videos that were taken I think
in the nineties about what you were talking about with
the planes in the air. I think it was in
the New Jersey side actually in the Hudson Valley, and
it looked like the planes are just kind of hovering
there and you heard the sound of a plane, and
the researchers at the time were saying that these are
(22:00):
a UFOs guised as planes. It's really fascinating video. I
do think that most of what they could be seeing
as parallax effect. But how long can p parallax sustain itself?
I can't definitely, So if you're seeing a what looks
like a plane that sounds like a plane hovering in
(22:21):
the air, for minutes, I would guess that it's not
a plane.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yes, And I've heard of people who they go on
skywatches and they think, I mean, in Pinebush, there's a
lot of airports all around, so you can look out
and you can see airplanes. And I knew people who's
like who said, yes, we watched an airplane. It was
an airplane, and then it just stopped and turned ninety
(22:48):
degrees and flew in the other direction really fast. So yes,
they did say to me when I went on skywatches,
like oh, yeah, they can disguise themselves with as airplanes,
but they get the lights wrong or something like that,
that there was always a tell.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Oftentimes we hear that the light the green and the
red are swapped. And I almost find that interesting because
if they're so observant that they could imitate our vehicles,
it's almost like that would be done on purpose.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yes, right, the same way like when they're like, oh,
the ship just appeared and disappeared, and it's like, well,
if it can disappear, if it can be invisible, why
would it ever be visible except that it wants you
to see it.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah, it wants to Confusing, of course, if your
hard nose the bunker. You could say, you know, you
could flip the image, but any of us who grew
up in the age of VHS tapes know that that's
not what was going on. When you're capturing on VHS
later on digital, sure you can, you can, you can
play with that, which goes back to this idea that
(23:50):
some of the best evidence that exists are pre digital,
pre cell phone age.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yes, I deeply regret that the huts and Valu Ufo
flap did not happen in the two thousands or now,
where everyone has a cell phone. I was joking that,
you know, we would have influencers taking selfies with the
Westchester Boom rangth that happened now, And unfortunately we just
had really bulky camquarters back in the eighties. So there
(24:20):
is some footage, but yeah, it's not beautiful, it's not
great evidence.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Well, looking back, it seems to me that for a while,
it was about every seven or ten years it would
be a major sighting, whether it was Belgium Phoenix lights
and you had Stephenville UFO in two thousand and eight.
The interesting thing about that is in two thousand and eight,
that's a transitional period when not everyone had the smartphones yet,
(24:47):
you know, with with decent cameras, we weren't there yet.
And that was the last mass sighting that I can
recall where there was a ton of witnesses, you know,
all over tech. And I do wonder are we not
getting those, you know, mass sightings because of the technology.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That's a good theory. Again, going back to some bigfoot researchers,
I know that they say when they have their cameras out,
they get nothing. Once they put those cameras away, they
start hearing noises, they start hearing banging on the trees.
So apparently the paranormal doesn't like cameras.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
But like you said earlier, some people claim that they
if they ask permission, that they can capture something on camera.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Well, when that's happening, we're looking at mostly orbs lights
in the sky.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Right yeah, so yeah, And so it's volitional that they
are making those decisions. They want to have the power
and then you will get something maybe. I'm sure you've
also heard people who they see a UFO and they're like, oh,
I'd like to see that more closely, and then it
comes closer to them, and that they're just thinking it
(26:07):
or they're just saying it quietly, and you see that
a lot in cases where you can sort of ask
nicely and the UFO will approach you. Yeah, I don't
know that you'd necessarily want that for most people.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I don't know if you want that. Yeah, No, there's
still too much ambiguity as to their intent. However, with
that said, it seems that the people who do ask
don't encounter any trouble except for the fact that you know,
we know the work of like David Polyad's and Missing
(26:42):
four one one, and you have to wonder do some
of those are some of those people contact these in
some way? Did they encounter something like the UFO and
they disappear and we just don't attribute that to the
UFO phenomenon, So it's not included in the data to
be able to make an assessment to say some people
are harmed by this.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah, that is true. And I mean you hear about
people who see the paranormal then they get radiation burns.
During the the Mothman sightings, the initial for people had
cleague conjunctivitis because they saw the Mothman and that comes
from you know, severe UV radiation that this cut that
(27:26):
these two couples had at night. And so even if
you know with the mothmen, they're like, oh, that was
just a kind of heron. Well, does the kind of
heron have intense UV radiation? Because there you have an
unquestionable piece of physical evidence that at least confuses what
happened there. You know, I'm I really dislike when skeptics
(27:48):
make make things like weirder than they need to be.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
You know, Well, that's when you know you've got them
by the tail, because they start coming up with explanations
that actually create more problems than they solve. And we
see that, especially with the Travis Walton case, and I've
written about that, and it astounds me that the same
(28:16):
tactics and techniques that debunkers were using all the way
back in the sixties and seventies are being used today
and there are just so many people who are unaware
of it, and they just believe whatever these debunkers put out.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
There, and a lot of the debunkers are just it's
very weak. One of my favorite podcasts is Last Podcast
on the Left, and I came to them when I
was doing research on the Hudson Valley phenomena. And it
was an episode of Skeptoid and you know last podcast
on the Left, which is a comedian, a guy who
(28:52):
does good research and then you know, kind of a
every man jerk will say. And they were much more thorough.
They considered the various angles, they pointed out things that
were wrong, where whereas in the Skeptoid podcast Brian Dunning
was intentionally ignoring things that happened or rephrasing and changing them.
So if you're a skeptic and you have to ignore evidence,
(29:14):
you're not a skeptic anymore. You have a prospective you're pushing,
You're a disinformation agent, right.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Kathleen and Chatt said she had an experience in nineteen
ninety two that we had a UFO over our house
in Cornwall, New York. Yeah, are you familiar with the
Cornwall area?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I know the area. It's not my expertise, but yeah,
it is an ongoing thing. Like we still get UFOs.
We still have pine Bush, which because of over development,
is you know, less exciting now that the fields that
used to reliably hold UFOs now hold you know, apartment buildings.
(29:56):
So you know, we do need we need those open
woods if you want spooky things.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
So there's that then in our minds? Or are there
really things that only live in the woods, Because you
also cover a number of cryptids. I've always been there,
it seems to me, in our myth and our folklore
in the Hudson Valley. What creatures have you come across?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Well, I've heard, I mean, these aren't precisely cryptids, but
I've heard that lemurs as in you know, the mammal
is just has been seen, have been seen, just like
on telephone poles. They also I heard for more than
one person that in pine Bush there is a cat
(30:49):
who walks on its hind legs and its head as cardboard.
And you know, if I heard it for one person,
I thought they were putting me on. But no, this
is apparently a cryptid that has been seen repeated. I
cannot explain that at all. They also can't explain if
it's like a three dimensional cardboard head or a flat
cardboard head. Well, it's just walking, Yeah, it's just walking
on its hind legs.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Really, you know, Yeah, it doesn't make any sounds, is.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
It per No, And I you know, I don't know
how I would react if I saw that, but I
guess you know, it doesn't sound like it hurries. It
just walks and then it goes off.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
See that that's just so bizarre. Yeah, and you have
to wonder is this something like the Skinny Man? Is this?
Can someone believe? Nick Redfern wrote about this? Can someone
believe something so much? Can enough people believe in it
that it's manifested?
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Yeah, So then we're getting into Tulpa's and this whole,
the whole phenomena could be Tulpa's, could be thought forms.
You know, we've got aliens that we can get in
vending machines. Now we're giving a lot of collective energy
to this concept. And as we do it, it because more powerful.
You know, it visits our dreams, you know, we experience it.
(32:07):
And so I mean, if you want to go back
to Alistair Crowley, and maybe you don't, he did have
on his honeymoon. I think he saw a creature that,
you know, sort of has like that hydrocephalic head. It
looks like an alien. It looks like a sci fi alien.
And if you made its eyes a little bigger, it
(32:27):
would look like a gray And so this is back
in the nineteen thirties. I want to say. And obviously
he was a great occultist, great in a pejorative sense,
and so he created this thought for him. He also
you know, he called it lamb lam. It's it's in
my book artificial Gods too, And so he created this concept.
(32:51):
It was already there in the collective unconscious maybe, and
now that basically is the template for the aliens we see.
You know occasionally, as I talked about in my panel
at Pine Bush, that there are different aliens, you know,
and then even in the alien phenomena, you know, there's
the tall whites, there's the Nordics, there's the little squat
(33:12):
gray guys, there's taller grays, but mostly it's you know,
it's the grays. It's the three or four foot tall,
big eyed guys. This. Yeah, and so that is what
we think an alien is. So that's what we see
as an alien. So and again like it's our perceptions
and a lot of people talk about how like they
see an alien, and then you know, they're just giving
(33:35):
us what they think they saw. You know, they have
screen memories. There's the whole like, oh, I saw a
really big owl that stared at me all night, and
it's like did that happen. It's like, oh, no, they
get hypnotized and they're like, no, the aliens put a
screen memory. But what if the aliens are the screen
memory on something.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Else, the owl screen memory.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Well yeah, Whitley Streiber talks about that, how he was
talking to his wife and I was like, yeah, there
was a really big owl that was on our roof
and she's like, that didn't happen, and that doesn't make sense,
and so then he investigates. He just hypnosis and he's like, no,
it was something else.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
There's also people who are like, yeah, I was in
a field and suddenly I was surrounded by all these
deer that were watching me, and then they get hypnotized
and they're like, that's not what happened. So yeah, that
it's just whatever this creature, whatever they really are. Maybe
the alien the gray suit is just something they put
(34:37):
on for.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Us, okay, And we put on our own suits when
we go out into the world. We put on wet
suits when we can go into the water to explore.
So there couldn't certainly be something to that.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah, And I'm not necessarily saying I ascribe to it.
I'm saying that I'm aware of this.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Yeah, yeah, interesting thing because if this is just some
sort of manifestation, whether by human collective unconsciousness or some other.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Other worldly energy or consciousness, it just seems odd that
we would be able to capture them on our flear radar.
You know, we'd never actually do measurements and calculate the
speeds that they're going. And you know, we see them.
We've seen them call on camera and these are military
(35:31):
footage of them going transmedium from air to water almost seamlessly.
Sometimes you see a splash and another time you don't,
So there is something kind of physical. They are within
the physical realm, within our three forty.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Reality, absolutely, And I think you know, if you told
people in the nineteen fifties, oh yeah, you know, we
talk about non human biologics in Congress. You know, we
have UFOs that turn to usos. It's no big deal.
And it really is almost no big deal to us
that we keep having these incredible revelations. And you know, again,
(36:12):
nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties, there would be a war of
the world. We would be flipping out, and nowadays we shrug.
So what is that?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Well, I think that it's also when you don't know
what to do, and if you can't panic about something,
you don't know what's panic about. So you shrug and
move on because the world doesn't come to an end,
so whatever it's doing, it's not that bad, it seems,
so you have to just kind of get on with life.
And I think that's also kind of the problem why
(36:44):
so many people the public at large don't have an
interest in UFOs, because as far as they're concerned, it's
still a mystery that's they'd rather just let someone else
solve and figure out improve So in the meantime they
go about their lives.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah, And I mean it's it's a very lucrative mystery too,
Like our media is obsessed with this. Well, yes, it's
good money. I just saw Alien Rodulus.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
You know good did you Did you enjoy it?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
I think you should just watch the other alien movies
because it's sort of just they put other alien movies
in a blender and then they just poured it out.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I don't know, like it's Gorney Weaver like Alien and Aliens.
The third one with Luke Bassan as the director was
little too stage crafty. Yeah, but the first two are
definitely the best.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Oh yeah, I mean it was very pretty to watch.
But at one point, this android who tells dad jokes says,
you know, leave her alone, bitch, and I'm like, where
did that? No, he wouldn't say that, but because you
know someone said it in a previous alien movie, they
had to do that, berries right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
You're a creative writer when you look out at all
the different types of cryptids that have either been invented
or eyewitnessed, which one kind of gets her creative juices
flowing more that you you know, love to write about,
create a story about.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Well, I mean I did write a whole book about Jeff,
the talking mongoose who had always spend my area.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
It's just hard to think of that as a cryptive
but okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
It was, so there was actually I was always interested.
And then on my phone it said, oh, a movie
is coming out in a year called Nandor Fodor and
the Talking Mongoose. I'm like, but I know all about this.
I will write a book and then the movie will
come out and people will buy the book. Then the
movie went straight to streaming without any real notice.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So wait, was that the thing you're working with? Sci
Fi Channel on.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
No. No, that was back in twenty eleven ish that
my publisher was trying to negotiate something with Sci Fi
Channel that never really came to anything. I got the
rights back to that years ago. But no, there was
a movie that came out which has Simon Peig and
(39:12):
Chris Mini driver Doc Brown from.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Christopher Lloyd.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Christopher Lloyd, thank you. Yes, the voice of Jeff the
talking mongoose is Neil Gaiman. So it was it should
have been a big movie and then it just fizzled out.
But yeah, so this is for your listeners watchers. Basically
what happened in nineteen thirty one, this family started hearing
(39:42):
like a grumbling in their walls. They yelled at it.
It started yelling back. They made animal sounds. It made
animal sounds back then it could understand them. Then it
started speaking to them in full sentences and being really obnoxious,
like saying, it's the eighth wonder of the world. It
will split the atom if you know what I know,
you know a hell of a lot. So it was
just really obnoxious. And this went on for close to
(40:04):
ten years where people would come whenever Harry Price, who
was an esteemed paranormal researcher at the time would come Jeff,
the talking mongoos would go quiet. Price actually said, I'm
not sure if I've been involved in a tragedy or
a farce. But a lot of esteemed people heard the
(40:24):
mongoose and it went on for a long time, and
even to their daughter VOIRI died in two thousand and five,
and then even into her death, she said he was real,
and I wish he weren't. So, yeah, I really like
that story because you have this mysterious creature who almost
definitely was not a mongoose. But was he a ghost?
(40:46):
Was he just a hoax?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Was it just a voice?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Well, they said, he's like, oh, I will put my
handprints here, and then the handprints are just ridiculous, like no,
you push a spoon into like that's in no way
a fingerprint. And he's like, oh, here's some of my hair,
and it's like that's the dog's hair. And but this
is a very intelligent family and so they would not hope,
(41:11):
they would not give the hair if they knew that
it was obviously going to be a hoax, like it
made them look very stupid, and yet they kept going.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Right, they wouldn't take it for testing or something.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Right, they wouldn't take it for testing, they wouldn't have
given in those fingerprints. He took photos of them, of
Jeff and Jeff, and it looks not only did it
look ridiculous, but every photo seemed to show a different
thing that you can't like, maybe it's a doll. Who knows.
There was actually a court case about it because one
(41:41):
of the co authors of the Haunting of Cashion's Gap
there was like business shenanigans, and so someone tried to
get him fired from the BBC, and so he took
it to court as libel and he won I think
over five hundred thousand dollars in today's money for the
(42:03):
libel for this, and that actually changed civil law or
civil service law, because then they had something called the
Stamp Act or the Stamp Investigation. I forget which where
they're like where the BBC is like, did we do
anything wrong here? I don't think so, but just to
be safe, we're going to change it. So we're going
(42:25):
to change it so you can't be fired for believing
something silly basically, and so that came to our civil
service law. So this little mongoose, this little cryptid actually
changed the law and was like a tabloid star. So
I love the whole concept of him and sad he's
also very time limited because in nineteen forty three, I
(42:50):
think was the last potential appearance, and that's when Jim Irving,
the patriarch of that family, died. So there's somebody to
be said that they were giving all this energy. You know,
there was so much belief around this one ridiculous thing,
and that gave it power and strength, and his you know,
interest died down, like Jeff, seemed to fade away, and
(43:11):
I'm very interested in like the cryptids, it only seemed
to exist that once, Like the Hopkinsville Goblins, which you know,
this a family was beset by these bulletproof, floating, glowing,
big eared things. You know, they went to the police.
There was evidence of gunshots and they seemed like aliens.
(43:34):
They seemed like they would be sci fi aliens, like
there was something there was a meteor or something that
was seen. So but again they gave all this energy.
There's so much interest. There is a Goblin festival now,
but they still were only seen that once that you know,
twelve hours and then never again.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Did you watch the Hellier series.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
I saw some of it, I didn't see all of it.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yeah, so there is something about when people are chasing
this phenomena that weird serendipitous coincidences occur, signs if you will,
that kind of point people along the way in the research,
(44:20):
but then they kind of end up at a dead
road anyway, a dead end anyway.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Have you ever found yourself in that situation where you
find follow a line of research it seems like something's
guiding you.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Oh, I definitely, I definitely do feel that. With my
book Artificial Gods, you know, I had basically written the
entire thing. You know, I'm like, oh, here's this occult angle.
And there used to be a site called stumble Upon
where you just click and it would show you a
random page and I'm like, I'm just going to click
one more time, and then it showed me that Alistair
Crowley Lamb thing, and I'm like, this is exactly what
(44:57):
I wrote in my story. You know, I didn't know Crowley.
I didn't know Jack Whiteside Parsons, who was an accolade
of Crowley and also basically created the jet propulsion lab
that got us into space. So that's fun But that
was all in my book without me having the actual
those facts. But you would have thought that I knew
(45:18):
all about this case, all about Crowley when I wrote it.
So yeah, I think that it does guide you, like
if you were open to it, it will bring you
where it wants you.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
It's funny because now these are top popular topics, so
what are the odds? Maybe pretty good. But the next
question I was going to ask you before you started
talking about Hellire was Hellier, right? Isn't that weird? Yeah?
I mean, of all, there there are many topics in
(45:52):
the paranormal and I was just about to ask you that,
and then you went right into it.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Yeah. I just saw a quote someone wrote it to
Jacques fully where it's basic. I might misquote it, but
it's like uphology is a process of initiation. You start
by doing field investigations and you end up studying Arab mystics.
So it all just it's very fuzzy, like it all
does one together. So I don't think that you can
(46:18):
just you know, if you say you're, oh, I'm just
interested in UFOs, well you're not going to stay interested
in UFOs. You know, it is not something that can
stay discreete. You need to study the entire phenomena, whatever
that is, wherever it leads you.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Have you ever spent time with al s Andri No, no, okay,
in nod that he's had some stories about seeing apparently
gray like aliens in Hudson Valley woods, and there have
been other reports of people seeing these little like gray
typical gray looking aliens and in the woods. No craft,
(46:55):
you know, nothing else, just they're there. Are they a
Is this a Hudson Valley phenomena? Or have you heard
about aliens existing without any other context?
Speaker 3 (47:09):
I haven't read tchnology. Yeah, I haven't really heard of
that outside of the Hudson Valley. In Silent Invasion, she
does talk about how Ellen Crystal that she's driving and
suddenly she sees what she thinks is a butterfly and
she stops and just takes a picture. And no, it's
you know, what she thought was wings were the big eyes,
(47:32):
and you know it looks at her terrified, and it's
just that she did something it didn't expect that. If
you are unpredictable, then they don't know what to do
with you. So I think, you know, if you go
out searching for something, I don't know, just pretend you're
going for a picnic. I'm not sure, but I have heard,
you know, there's the Ellenville Tunnels around here where people
(47:54):
are like, oh, we hear sounds on there. There's something
in there. We don't know what it is. So there's
a lot of good places to hide. We have stone
chambers all over the place. And some people think that oh,
that's just you know, something that the pioneers did or
the Native Americans, or they bring it to druids. But
there are you know, stone chambers around without any explanation. Really.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Yeah. So when I was a kid in New Jersey,
well teenager, there was a it was a metaphysical magazine.
There was an issues that would come out very once
in Blue Moon and I got it at the local
like Wiccan New Age shop. And there was an article
in there about someone who was describing seeing a UFO
(48:41):
and others a UFO that would disappear into a cave
system near a river. And but of course they didn't
give you the exact location in the article. And I
was fascinated with that and I always hoped to find
out more information about what this cave is that people
have witnessed the UFOs coming in and out of Have
(49:04):
you come across anything like that.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
I've heard a couple of cases about a UFO just
sort of popping into the Hudson River and not coming
out again, but not many and not recently. But I
mean there's I'm sort of working on a book about
the Linda Cortil slash Nepolitano case, the Brooklyn Bridge Transfer UFO,
(49:32):
and in that, you know, the UFO supposedly immediately dives
under the water.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Linda is still around. Have you spoken to her?
Speaker 4 (49:42):
No?
Speaker 3 (49:43):
But I think I need to before I go further
in this book, just because you know, I you know,
I've read stuff by Carol Rainey, who is Bud Hopkins'
ex wife, where she basically heavily doubts that Linda's telling
the truth. And I would like to speak to Linda
and see what she's up to and allow her reaction,
(50:04):
because you know, I would like to just be skeptical
skeptical about that case. And then there's a couple of
things where I'm like, well, no, that doesn't add up,
and I don't know how to like gel how that
gels with the whole thing. You know, it's very weird
she seems very weird and I'm not being pejorative there necessarily,
and it you know, I I would love for this
(50:26):
just to be oh, this woman made something up and
then she duped Bud Hopkins. But I don't think that's
the whole of it. And you know, she's still around,
and I really would like to contact her and just
see what's up.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah, I mean you probably already know where to start
with that, but I'll I'll message you afterwards or we'll
talk afterwards. I know someone who should be able to
help with that, And I've been meaning to invite her
onto to the podcast. I just haven't gotten around to it.
So we have a few minutes left. What is the
(51:05):
most significant case in all the phenomena that for you,
that you think people should study and understand and learn about.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
Well, I think Travis Walton's is fascinating because there you
have I mean, he thinks that basically he was unpredictable
and the aliens accidentally killed him and then they were
just bringing him back. So a lot of people. You know,
you have doctor Stephen Greer who announces himself to the UFOs.
(51:39):
He will if you pay him thousands of dollars he
will do a seminar with you and teach you how
to summon the UFOs yourself. But then you have occasional
people where they are not behaving the way the UFOs
want them to behave and they might get hurt or
you know, they might see something that the phenomena does
not mean for them to see.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
So, Travis Walton, that's the big case. Do you think
that he was indeed abducted by aliens?
Speaker 3 (52:11):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
Really interesting, I wasn't sure, but no, no.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
No, I think that. You know, I've met him at
the UFO fair. Yeah, he is a very serious man.
I believe he experienced what he says he experienced. I'm
just not sure what that was. You know, he was
gone for days. Was it over a week?
Speaker 2 (52:35):
It was five days?
Speaker 3 (52:36):
Five days? And so he legitimately was gone, like he
his friends, his coworkers reported him missing. And I understand
that if a big ship just like shined a light
on my friend, I might run. I understand. That's fine.
And most of them, like they did polygraph tests and
(52:58):
most of them passed. But and so he was gone.
Where was he? And then when he returned? I don't
remember his case perfectly clearly. But I think that like
he showed damage, like something happened to him.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
Well, there were issues with his like key tone levels, yeah,
blood yeah, and he was seemingly dehydrated. He lost some weight.
So there were some minor you know, health changes, physiological changes.
And then of course he had the the stubble, you know,
(53:35):
the five days again and shaved in five days. But
of course he was hiding the woods. He could he
could not shave right, possibly, but you're right about the
the tests. So the polygraph tests Alan Dallas, His was inconclusive.
He was kind of a troublemaker at the time. He
(53:56):
got nervous around the cops and he didn't understand the
process of the polygraph that they do it several times,
that's just the standard. His understanding at the time was,
oh my god, they're doing this again. They must think
I'm guilty of something, and so he freaked out, right,
So it was inconclusive. Well years later, I believe ninety
(54:18):
two something like that, he was retested, and at that
point in his life he had he had already been
to jail, but he was on a path of recovery.
You know, he had regretted his youthful mistakes, and you know,
he was a sober minded, mature adult and he retook
a polygraph test and he passed, and so did Travis.
(54:41):
So technically everybody there passed, and of course Travis passed.
I think four of six, one was inconclusive and one
was a TV show which was just you know bs right,
So yeah, the evidence for their having been a high
strangeness event is astounding with that case.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Oh I just have one more thing, sure, Yeah, and
it always I think it's funny when people are like, oh,
they're making it up for money or prestige, because if
you get involved in this phenomena, you're not making money
and it's not going to be great for your reputation.
So if you're standing by what happened to you, yeah,
you know, that should say all it needs to say.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
All right, if everybody's listening, please check out Tom's website.
That's Tom T h O M. M quackenbush dot com.
Tom uh. One last question for you. Are dragons real?
Speaker 3 (55:44):
Komodo dragons are? I haven't seen any other dragons.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
That's a sheet.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
So if we believe in them enough, they'll become real.
I've got that, Okay, that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
I really appreciate you being on and I hopefully we'll
see each other around.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
Okay the woods, all right, all right, bye, Okay, take
care of Tom.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Okay. Thank you everyone for joining us tonight. Really appreciate
you joining in the comments, and of course that was
an awesome conversation with Tom. He's fantastic. Thank you to
the Unex Network for hosting this program and Coffee and
UFO's podcast. Thank you Margie Ka and Race Hobbs for
all you do. And I want to just give you
(56:28):
a reminder that the podcast we are back on so
straight through until the Christmas holiday season. We'll have regular shows.
Next week I have a shorter interview with Ben Hansen,
so I hope you'll appreciate that. And if you have
any thoughts Tonight's conversation future podcasts, please share down below,
(56:50):
like and please subscribe because that really really helps the channel.
So thank you, I appreciate you all. Peace and love,
and until next time, Live in the Mystery
You're listening to Mystic Lounge with Alan B. Smith, rebroadcast
on the ONEX Network Thursdays at eleven pm Pacific Fridays
at two a m. Eastern.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
It has been quite a while since we've done a
live stream, so thank you so much for joining us.
I have a very special guest on tonight. His name
is Tom Kuackenbush, and he is from New York State,
Hudson Valley, and he is a New York high strangest
researcher and writer. In fact, I wouldn't corner him to
(00:42):
just New York. I think he has a wide array
of knowledge regarding cryptozoology, the paranormal, UFOs, metaphysics, all of
which can obviously be found here in the New York
Hudson Valley. So we'll speak to Tom in just a moment.
As a friendly reminder, if you like tonight's show and
other Mystic Lounge streams like Coffee and UFOs, please subscribe
(01:06):
and like to help support the channel. You can also
follow for show updates on at Paranormal Now, on Instagram
and on Facebook at Paranormal Underscore Now. And I'm spending
a less time on X and more time on threads
so to run threads. Please go there. I'll be posting
more and more updates for you as well. All right,
(01:27):
so we've got let's see, oh okay, so imminent the
book by lou Alissando. I don't know how many of
you have gotten the book yet or have started reading it.
I'm almost finished, and I can't recommend it to you
more highly. It is a really insightful take on how
(01:53):
uap UFO phenomena and otherwise, because we know that there
is interest in sky Skinwalker Ranch through the AFSAP Investigative body,
through the eyes of the defense intelligence community. And I
just want to say this one thing about the book,
which many of you have probably heard about already. We've
(02:17):
discussed over the years that there tends to be two
factions in the UFO cover up. We keep hearing that
over two factions, two factions, two factions, Well what does
that mean? According to Luel Zondo, that means there is
one group, which he calls the Collins Elite, which apparently
are generals, military higher ups that are religious zealots, extreme
(02:44):
fundamentalists that are one convinced that UFOs visiting this planet
are demons. They're not actually extraterrestrials. They're not interdimensionals, They're
not anything of the like, and they are doing all
that they can to cover this up. Now, what's their motive?
Why try to cover it up? Are they trying to
(03:05):
despite fight some spiritual battle on the side. I don't know.
I obviously don't subscribe to that theory, But the fact
that there are people in our US government that are
making public safety and decisions based on their interpretation of
(03:29):
a phenomenon, based on their interpretation of religion, I find
very scary. However, we have heard there's another faction, and
the other faction wants to get this information out, and
maybe that includes someone like Harry Reid, who really got
this bill passed which included the offset funding the initial
(03:53):
twenty million to get that going two million. So how
long is this going to take? When is the one
faction going to outweigh the other? I don't know, but
I definitely would love to hear all your thoughts about
the book and what you think about lou and his message.
(04:14):
So enough about that. That's probably the biggest thing in
the news. There's lots of the cover, but I definitely
want to bring on our special guest Tom Quackenbush. Tom,
Welcome to Mistic Lounge.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
I'm good, It's good to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, thanks, thanks for coming on. So as we were
chatting before, I first heard you speak at the Pine
Bush UFO Fair here in New York, New York State,
Hudson Valley, and I absolutely loved your presentation. You bring
a flare to the subject that is filled with a
(04:50):
little bit of whimsy, but you'd also take the subject
very seriously. So I'm really curious how did you start
and what you fascinated in the subject in the first place.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
See, I'm not one hundred percent sure what I'm interested
because basically, once I started being able to read, I
gravitated toward UFO books, ghost books, and maybe it's you know,
I was marinating in the Hudson Valley phenomena even when
I was five. Maybe there was just something out there.
You know, kids are very intuitive and they pick up things,
(05:21):
So maybe there was something that happened that just led
my interest.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Okay, And was there a particular moment that where grabbed you?
Speaker 3 (05:36):
I think so I have this story that I tell
and this would have happened probably nineteen eighty seven or
eighty eight, you know, mid to late December, because we
were coming home from my cousin Phil's birthday party and
I saw a like a giant triangle floating over I
(05:56):
know exactly where I saw it was by the old
Texaco and I looked out the window and I was
shouting to my parents, who were driving me home, saying,
you know, there it is. And I said, all right,
well now things are going to change. I remember looking
at the newspaper, you know, I'm like, where are the stories?
And then I just sort of let it fade away.
(06:17):
And then decades later I brought this up and my
parents said, we don't remember that. We don't remember that happening.
And so I looked and I cannot find that sighting
anywhere else, and certainly the whole Hudson value of folk Lap,
you know, we were still interested as a community, and
for some reason that didn't get reported. So I don't.
(06:40):
I can't. It seems too vivid to be a dream.
But that's sort of what I'm left with. But after that,
you know, I was a confirmed believer because again I
saw the ship. I saw something, so it had to
be real.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
It had to be real. And you also have been
studying this for a long long time. So in that process,
have you seen any other subsequent UFOs?
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Sadly, nothing too convincing. When I was researching, when I
was driving around Pine Bush, I was with the whole
car was packed, and I looked out the back window
and I saw three lights rise up from the woods
kind of turn on their end, and then, well, I say, disappear,
(07:31):
but we kept driving. I told my friend pull over,
you know, and she refused because she was afraid that
she would be arrested. There was a myth sort of
that if your skywatching in Pine Bush, the police will
come and get you, which is sort of true, like
that's if you're parked on the side of the road
and your wheels are touching the road, because people during
(07:54):
the height of the Pindrish phenomena would just sort of
park and set fires. So that wasn't gonna happen. But
she refused to stop. But she did have like a
mini camcorder that was filming. Unfortunately, since she wouldn't stop
moving and it was a low quality camera, there was
(08:15):
nothing on the video. She watched it, she shrugged. She
deleted it, which I hate because nowadays I'm sure, we
could run it through something and get something.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
So you think that there would have been something captured
that modern day software could could find through filters or
what have your word. But is it possible that there
wouldn't be something there if and do you think this?
Do you think that UFOs can actually interfere with our
capturing devices?
Speaker 3 (08:45):
I have heard that, and I think we see a
lot of evidence of that, or lack of evidence of
that where people try. In Silent Invasion by doctor Ellen Crystal,
she suggests that UFOs can intentionally mess with the emulsion
of film, so you can take set your camera up,
take a picture and get nothing. Also, she took almost
(09:09):
a religious perspective on them, that if you asked permission,
the UFO might allow you to take a picture of it.
But yeah, we do see a lot of people where
you know, their cameras working fine, they go to take
a picture and their phone dies, their camera dies, they
get nothing but radiation or nothing, you know, perfect picture before,
(09:31):
perfect picture after when it's supposed to be the UFO nothing.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Well speaking of and Llewell's not actually wrote this in
the book, but it was just reading he you know,
he and others have theorized that around these uap there
sometimes appear to be kind of a distortion, right, and
the thought is that if there is a time distortion,
a gravitational distortion, that that could actually affect what the
(10:00):
camera is actually able to pick up, and it creates
these kind of blurry and seemingly undefined videos when they
otherwise should because sometimes you look at something with your
eye and look very clear, and you're like just not
showing up on camera the way you're seeing it. Of course,
there is the technological aspect that I could see something
in the night sky with a much better definition than
(10:22):
my cell phone, can you know, using the zoom three
four times digital zoom.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I mean, the moon is beautiful when I look at
the window, and it's a little dot when I look
on my phone. So that is a celestial object that
is very concrete. We have that experience all the time,
and so it sort of makes sense that, you know,
we have this numinous experience, we have this object up there,
and we can get nothing filmed.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, you know, tonight I wore this shirt in particular,
it's my big Foot T shirt Hide and Seek World Champion,
which I think there might be some truth to that,
and I'm wondering, what do you think here in the
Hudson Valley there are researchers. You know, we both know
(11:09):
Gale and yeah, and it's not often that you hear
local folklore about Bigfoot, but there are plenty of researchers
that actually go out into the woods and into the
hills here and seem to find what they believe is
evidence of Bigfoot. What's your take on that? Are are
(11:32):
they reading into it or do you really think that
there's actual evidence for this?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
I am not sure, which I don't want that to
be a cop out answer, but you know, I've gone
to several of Gail Beattie's presentations and she is always like,
I took a picture, and this pixelated mass is the
best I could get. I went to a preparation meeting
maybe ten years ago, and there was a gentleman there
(11:59):
I forget his name, and he's like, oh, I have
these great pictures. I have this great audio recording and
I saw some of it. I'm like, this is glorious
and he's like, yeah, I'm not going to share that.
And I was very frustrated by that. So there are
and I mean, Gail herself says that she has some
excellent evidence, but she's promised not to reveal it.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
And why would you promise not to reveal it?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
I think just the Maybe it was the people she
filmed it with that they did not want it shared,
which you can sort of understand, like you don't want
to have your backyard become a tourist attraction. Necessarily okay,
fair enough, and it's also.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Not could you not take evidence off the property and
just not you know, yeah, and present it otherwise?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
You know, I've heard I've heard people say that this
is a phenomena that wants to be researched, but it
does not want to be proven. That if we actually
could get that good picture, you know, if we could
get that picture of an alien or a bigfoot where
that's definitive, people would just sort of shrug it off,
which I think is true, like we shrug off amazing
(13:06):
things constantly, but that this is I don't know, one
gets almost spiritual about this, like what the phenomena wants.
And you know, years ago I went to a Pine
Bush UFO support group meeting and there was a gentleman
from MUFAN and he said, the bigfoots the aliens, the ghosts,
they're all in it together. And I'm like, well, that's
(13:27):
a ridiculous thing to say. Let me write that down.
But then the more I research, I'm like, no, it's true,
because you see people who like they see a UFO
and then a year later they're like, and there's a
bigfoot now right, and I have psychic powers? Now where
did that come from? So there's a quote, no, please
(13:47):
go on, Well, I.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Was gonna say the whole psychic power thing. We hear
that a lot. But the problem with psychic power is
it's really hard to prove. It's hard to prove that
I haven't improved intuition. So do you really think that
people are actually getting their brain stimulated in some way?
Or is it a more spiritual evolution.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
I think it could sort of be like both of those,
where you have this experience and it is almost religious,
and so then you start doing more research. And it
could also be like we're talking about energy and you
hear about UFOs aliens talking people's heads like that's how
they communicate. So maybe that just turns something on. We
(14:32):
have all sorts of modules in our brains that we
aren't really using, so maybe.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Right, Okay, so let's go down that road. And there's
a lot to cover this idea that there might be
some kind of motivation behind the mystique, that behind the
fact that they plague essentially kind of peekaboo, right, Like
it's they show themselves just for a flicker of a
(14:59):
second and then that they're gone. They allow themselves to
get captured just enough to keep it tantalizing, but then
they're gone. If they're doing that purposefully, if there is
some kind of concerted effort, what can we read into that,
what's the motivation and who and what would be doing that?
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Well, it's almost flattering to think that we must be
important to them if they're willing to put on this
show for us.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Or they're just having fun picking on us.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
That's true. Yeah, they're bored.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
This is like, oh, these silly, naive humans.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
So yeah, I mean I do think that. I mean,
Carl Jung has his book UFOs where he posits that, yes,
this is real, but it's also a psychic phenomenon. It's
originating from within us, and so we are seeing something
that's like being reflected back that way. But yeah, I'm so.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
The way are you saying that that is coming. We
are the creators of the phenomena.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
We are at least the collaborators with the phenomena that
we are giving something. It's giving us this much, we're
giving it back.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
YEA.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
One thing I point out, going back to Bigfoot, when
I was reading those elementary school Bigfoot books, this was
an undiscovered hominid. And now you hear stories about Bigfoot
can teleport, he can melt into other dimensions. He is bulletproof.
And so we are increasing the myth. And as we
(16:34):
increase the myth, we see it diverging. You know, we
have the myth of the grays. Like even people who
are not interested in UFOs will never read a UFO book.
They know what a gray is. They can draw a gray.
So that's giving a lot of energy to that concept,
which makes it stronger. And it's like a feedback cycle.
(16:55):
So you know something you know in my novels, this
is how it works too, that things want to be
wants your focus, but they don't want to be proven
because being proven would let them is like toxic. Like
you know, we proved things and dissect them.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah, ah okay, So it's almost like our analytical and
cold scientific approach to the phenomena is almost an insult
to the phenomena.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yeah, I think so, and that they're just they're not
something that can be proven. I know John Keel talked
about that they are ultra terrestrials, that all of these
you know, the whole phenomena like bigfoots, whatever you want, cryptids,
that they're all just sort of how a bigger creature
can poke into our dimension, like, oh, you want us
(17:54):
to wear this mask, we can wear this mask for you.
But that's not you know, what we're saying is a
bigfoot is just sort of a monkey suit, because then
we can pay attention to it in its natural form.
It's beyond us.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
We have a question from Maria, what intel could they
be gathering watching us?
Speaker 3 (18:15):
There's a good question, really good question. I mean, you know,
you see going back, you know, fairies and such, the
whole like fairy abduction is like alien abduction.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
So this phenomena, whatever it is, has been going on
for centuries millennia, has always been with us, and so
you'd think that whatever intel they needed, they'd gotten, but
they haven't. You know, it's ongoing. You know, the form
changes and maybe in a thousand years would be like, oh,
(18:48):
how quaint. They thought they were UFOs, they thought there
were aliens when there really is whatever the phenomena has
evolved to at that point. So I don't know what
they're getting from us, but they're still in trusted, they're
still watching us, they're still interfering.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
In the Hudson Valley. There was a flap in the eighties,
which you recall. What was that like for you at
that time?
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Well, I was unfortunately young, and so I knew about it,
but it was very hazy. You know, I've gone back,
I've read Night Siege, I've interviewed people in the area
who have had who have had experiences as vivid as
the one that I'm not sure I had, And so
(19:30):
these are very most of them are very serious people
that they're not trying to get attention. You know, you
have pilots, you have astronomers who saw it looked up
and yes, you have people who are like, that is
an airplane, And I've heard some reports and I'm like, well, yeah,
that was an airplane. You may not know that was
an airplane, but that was an airplane what you're describing.
(19:53):
But then there are a lot that were not The
whole Hudson Valley phenomena is a mire because there are
you know, there were hoaxers, and sure the ultra lights,
but the ultra light explanation doesn't actually make sense, you know, one,
the way that they flew probably would have been illegal,
(20:13):
but would be dangerous and could not explain everything that happened.
There were people who saw the Hudson Valley the Westchester Boomerang,
and then later saw the ultra lights and they're like, yeah,
those are the ultra lights. I know the difference.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Oh can you describe ultra lights?
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Okay? Ultra lights are basically hang gliders with lawnmower engines
on them. You know, they are not They're not a
sort of thing they could really fly in formation the
excuse the stormbilled flyers they said they were They said, oh, yeah,
we had colored lights and we would turn them on
and off to make people think that they were seeing things,
(20:51):
which again is not a good explanation. But yeah, they're
not anything fancy and they're not anything quiet. And the
Westchester boomerang was always reported as you know, a very
low hum or, nothing at all, And this was by
thousands of people at a time, so you know, and
(21:12):
a lot of the excuses like there's also like, oh,
maybe Stewart Air Force Base was testing the stealth bomber.
Would you do that over a populated area? Absolutely not,
And Stuart's like, no, we weren't. That did not happen.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
That was not us, right, And that's not something they
would need to lie about because they're open about the
fact that they were testing anyway, So it doesn't make
a difference.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Now.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
You probably recall the videos that were taken I think
in the nineties about what you were talking about with
the planes in the air. I think it was in
the New Jersey side actually in the Hudson Valley, and
it looked like the planes are just kind of hovering
there and you heard the sound of a plane, and
the researchers at the time were saying that these are
(22:00):
a UFOs guised as planes. It's really fascinating video. I
do think that most of what they could be seeing
as parallax effect. But how long can p parallax sustain itself?
I can't definitely, So if you're seeing a what looks
like a plane that sounds like a plane hovering in
(22:21):
the air, for minutes, I would guess that it's not
a plane.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yes, And I've heard of people who they go on
skywatches and they think, I mean, in Pinebush, there's a
lot of airports all around, so you can look out
and you can see airplanes. And I knew people who's
like who said, yes, we watched an airplane. It was
an airplane, and then it just stopped and turned ninety
(22:48):
degrees and flew in the other direction really fast. So yes,
they did say to me when I went on skywatches,
like oh, yeah, they can disguise themselves with as airplanes,
but they get the lights wrong or something like that,
that there was always a tell.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Oftentimes we hear that the light the green and the
red are swapped. And I almost find that interesting because
if they're so observant that they could imitate our vehicles,
it's almost like that would be done on purpose.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yes, right, the same way like when they're like, oh,
the ship just appeared and disappeared, and it's like, well,
if it can disappear, if it can be invisible, why
would it ever be visible except that it wants you
to see it.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah, it wants to Confusing, of course, if your
hard nose the bunker. You could say, you know, you
could flip the image, but any of us who grew
up in the age of VHS tapes know that that's
not what was going on. When you're capturing on VHS
later on digital, sure you can, you can, you can
play with that, which goes back to this idea that
(23:50):
some of the best evidence that exists are pre digital,
pre cell phone age.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yes, I deeply regret that the huts and Valu Ufo
flap did not happen in the two thousands or now,
where everyone has a cell phone. I was joking that,
you know, we would have influencers taking selfies with the
Westchester Boom rangth that happened now, And unfortunately we just
had really bulky camquarters back in the eighties. So there
(24:20):
is some footage, but yeah, it's not beautiful, it's not
great evidence.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Well, looking back, it seems to me that for a while,
it was about every seven or ten years it would
be a major sighting, whether it was Belgium Phoenix lights
and you had Stephenville UFO in two thousand and eight.
The interesting thing about that is in two thousand and eight,
that's a transitional period when not everyone had the smartphones yet,
(24:47):
you know, with with decent cameras, we weren't there yet.
And that was the last mass sighting that I can
recall where there was a ton of witnesses, you know,
all over tech. And I do wonder are we not
getting those, you know, mass sightings because of the technology.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That's a good theory. Again, going back to some bigfoot researchers,
I know that they say when they have their cameras out,
they get nothing. Once they put those cameras away, they
start hearing noises, they start hearing banging on the trees.
So apparently the paranormal doesn't like cameras.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
But like you said earlier, some people claim that they
if they ask permission, that they can capture something on camera.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Well, when that's happening, we're looking at mostly orbs lights
in the sky.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Right yeah, so yeah, And so it's volitional that they
are making those decisions. They want to have the power
and then you will get something maybe. I'm sure you've
also heard people who they see a UFO and they're like, oh,
I'd like to see that more closely, and then it
comes closer to them, and that they're just thinking it
(26:07):
or they're just saying it quietly, and you see that
a lot in cases where you can sort of ask
nicely and the UFO will approach you. Yeah, I don't
know that you'd necessarily want that for most people.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I don't know if you want that. Yeah, No, there's
still too much ambiguity as to their intent. However, with
that said, it seems that the people who do ask
don't encounter any trouble except for the fact that you know,
we know the work of like David Polyad's and Missing
(26:42):
four one one, and you have to wonder do some
of those are some of those people contact these in
some way? Did they encounter something like the UFO and
they disappear and we just don't attribute that to the
UFO phenomenon, So it's not included in the data to
be able to make an assessment to say some people
are harmed by this.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yeah, that is true. And I mean you hear about
people who see the paranormal then they get radiation burns.
During the the Mothman sightings, the initial for people had
cleague conjunctivitis because they saw the Mothman and that comes
from you know, severe UV radiation that this cut that
(27:26):
these two couples had at night. And so even if
you know with the mothmen, they're like, oh, that was
just a kind of heron. Well, does the kind of
heron have intense UV radiation? Because there you have an
unquestionable piece of physical evidence that at least confuses what
happened there. You know, I'm I really dislike when skeptics
(27:48):
make make things like weirder than they need to be.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
You know, Well, that's when you know you've got them
by the tail, because they start coming up with explanations
that actually create more problems than they solve. And we
see that, especially with the Travis Walton case, and I've
written about that, and it astounds me that the same
(28:16):
tactics and techniques that debunkers were using all the way
back in the sixties and seventies are being used today
and there are just so many people who are unaware
of it, and they just believe whatever these debunkers put out.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
There, and a lot of the debunkers are just it's
very weak. One of my favorite podcasts is Last Podcast
on the Left, and I came to them when I
was doing research on the Hudson Valley phenomena. And it
was an episode of Skeptoid and you know last podcast
on the Left, which is a comedian, a guy who
(28:52):
does good research and then you know, kind of a
every man jerk will say. And they were much more thorough.
They considered the various angles, they pointed out things that
were wrong, where whereas in the Skeptoid podcast Brian Dunning
was intentionally ignoring things that happened or rephrasing and changing them.
So if you're a skeptic and you have to ignore evidence,
(29:14):
you're not a skeptic anymore. You have a prospective you're pushing,
You're a disinformation agent, right.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Kathleen and Chatt said she had an experience in nineteen
ninety two that we had a UFO over our house
in Cornwall, New York. Yeah, are you familiar with the
Cornwall area?
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I know the area. It's not my expertise, but yeah,
it is an ongoing thing. Like we still get UFOs.
We still have pine Bush, which because of over development,
is you know, less exciting now that the fields that
used to reliably hold UFOs now hold you know, apartment buildings.
(29:56):
So you know, we do need we need those open
woods if you want spooky things.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
So there's that then in our minds? Or are there
really things that only live in the woods, Because you
also cover a number of cryptids. I've always been there,
it seems to me, in our myth and our folklore
in the Hudson Valley. What creatures have you come across?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Well, I've heard, I mean, these aren't precisely cryptids, but
I've heard that lemurs as in you know, the mammal
is just has been seen, have been seen, just like
on telephone poles. They also I heard for more than
one person that in pine Bush there is a cat
(30:49):
who walks on its hind legs and its head as cardboard.
And you know, if I heard it for one person,
I thought they were putting me on. But no, this
is apparently a cryptid that has been seen repeated. I
cannot explain that at all. They also can't explain if
it's like a three dimensional cardboard head or a flat
cardboard head. Well, it's just walking, Yeah, it's just walking
on its hind legs.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Really, you know, Yeah, it doesn't make any sounds, is.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
It per No, And I you know, I don't know
how I would react if I saw that, but I
guess you know, it doesn't sound like it hurries. It
just walks and then it goes off.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
See that that's just so bizarre. Yeah, and you have
to wonder is this something like the Skinny Man? Is this?
Can someone believe? Nick Redfern wrote about this? Can someone
believe something so much? Can enough people believe in it
that it's manifested?
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Yeah, So then we're getting into Tulpa's and this whole,
the whole phenomena could be Tulpa's, could be thought forms.
You know, we've got aliens that we can get in
vending machines. Now we're giving a lot of collective energy
to this concept. And as we do it, it because more powerful.
You know, it visits our dreams, you know, we experience it.
(32:07):
And so I mean, if you want to go back
to Alistair Crowley, and maybe you don't, he did have
on his honeymoon. I think he saw a creature that,
you know, sort of has like that hydrocephalic head. It
looks like an alien. It looks like a sci fi alien.
And if you made its eyes a little bigger, it
(32:27):
would look like a gray And so this is back
in the nineteen thirties. I want to say. And obviously
he was a great occultist, great in a pejorative sense,
and so he created this thought for him. He also
you know, he called it lamb lam. It's it's in
my book artificial Gods too, And so he created this concept.
(32:51):
It was already there in the collective unconscious maybe, and
now that basically is the template for the aliens we see.
You know occasionally, as I talked about in my panel
at Pine Bush, that there are different aliens, you know,
and then even in the alien phenomena, you know, there's
the tall whites, there's the Nordics, there's the little squat
(33:12):
gray guys, there's taller grays, but mostly it's you know,
it's the grays. It's the three or four foot tall,
big eyed guys. This. Yeah, and so that is what
we think an alien is. So that's what we see
as an alien. So and again like it's our perceptions
and a lot of people talk about how like they
see an alien, and then you know, they're just giving
(33:35):
us what they think they saw. You know, they have
screen memories. There's the whole like, oh, I saw a
really big owl that stared at me all night, and
it's like did that happen. It's like, oh, no, they
get hypnotized and they're like, no, the aliens put a
screen memory. But what if the aliens are the screen
memory on something.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Else, the owl screen memory.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Well yeah, Whitley Streiber talks about that, how he was
talking to his wife and I was like, yeah, there
was a really big owl that was on our roof
and she's like, that didn't happen, and that doesn't make sense,
and so then he investigates. He just hypnosis and he's like, no,
it was something else.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
There's also people who are like, yeah, I was in
a field and suddenly I was surrounded by all these
deer that were watching me, and then they get hypnotized
and they're like, that's not what happened. So yeah, that
it's just whatever this creature, whatever they really are. Maybe
the alien the gray suit is just something they put
(34:37):
on for.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Us, okay, And we put on our own suits when
we go out into the world. We put on wet
suits when we can go into the water to explore.
So there couldn't certainly be something to that.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Yeah, And I'm not necessarily saying I ascribe to it.
I'm saying that I'm aware of this.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Yeah, yeah, interesting thing because if this is just some
sort of manifestation, whether by human collective unconsciousness or some other.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Other worldly energy or consciousness, it just seems odd that
we would be able to capture them on our flear radar.
You know, we'd never actually do measurements and calculate the
speeds that they're going. And you know, we see them.
We've seen them call on camera and these are military
(35:31):
footage of them going transmedium from air to water almost seamlessly.
Sometimes you see a splash and another time you don't,
So there is something kind of physical. They are within
the physical realm, within our three forty.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Reality, absolutely, And I think you know, if you told
people in the nineteen fifties, oh yeah, you know, we
talk about non human biologics in Congress. You know, we
have UFOs that turn to usos. It's no big deal.
And it really is almost no big deal to us
that we keep having these incredible revelations. And you know, again,
(36:12):
nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties, there would be a war of
the world. We would be flipping out, and nowadays we shrug.
So what is that?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Well, I think that it's also when you don't know
what to do, and if you can't panic about something,
you don't know what's panic about. So you shrug and
move on because the world doesn't come to an end,
so whatever it's doing, it's not that bad, it seems,
so you have to just kind of get on with life.
And I think that's also kind of the problem why
(36:44):
so many people the public at large don't have an
interest in UFOs, because as far as they're concerned, it's
still a mystery that's they'd rather just let someone else
solve and figure out improve So in the meantime they
go about their lives.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah, And I mean it's it's a very lucrative mystery too,
Like our media is obsessed with this. Well, yes, it's
good money. I just saw Alien Rodulus.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
You know good did you Did you enjoy it?
Speaker 3 (37:22):
I think you should just watch the other alien movies
because it's sort of just they put other alien movies
in a blender and then they just poured it out.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I don't know, like it's Gorney Weaver like Alien and Aliens.
The third one with Luke Bassan as the director was
little too stage crafty. Yeah, but the first two are
definitely the best.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Oh yeah, I mean it was very pretty to watch.
But at one point, this android who tells dad jokes says,
you know, leave her alone, bitch, and I'm like, where
did that? No, he wouldn't say that, but because you
know someone said it in a previous alien movie, they
had to do that, berries right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
You're a creative writer when you look out at all
the different types of cryptids that have either been invented
or eyewitnessed, which one kind of gets her creative juices
flowing more that you you know, love to write about,
create a story about.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Well, I mean I did write a whole book about Jeff,
the talking mongoose who had always spend my area.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
It's just hard to think of that as a cryptive
but okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
It was, so there was actually I was always interested.
And then on my phone it said, oh, a movie
is coming out in a year called Nandor Fodor and
the Talking Mongoose. I'm like, but I know all about this.
I will write a book and then the movie will
come out and people will buy the book. Then the
movie went straight to streaming without any real notice.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
So wait, was that the thing you're working with? Sci
Fi Channel on.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
No. No, that was back in twenty eleven ish that
my publisher was trying to negotiate something with Sci Fi
Channel that never really came to anything. I got the
rights back to that years ago. But no, there was
a movie that came out which has Simon Peig and
(39:12):
Chris Mini driver Doc Brown from.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Christopher Lloyd.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Christopher Lloyd, thank you. Yes, the voice of Jeff the
talking mongoose is Neil Gaiman. So it was it should
have been a big movie and then it just fizzled out.
But yeah, so this is for your listeners watchers. Basically
what happened in nineteen thirty one, this family started hearing
(39:42):
like a grumbling in their walls. They yelled at it.
It started yelling back. They made animal sounds. It made
animal sounds back then it could understand them. Then it
started speaking to them in full sentences and being really obnoxious,
like saying, it's the eighth wonder of the world. It
will split the atom if you know what I know,
you know a hell of a lot. So it was
just really obnoxious. And this went on for close to
(40:04):
ten years where people would come whenever Harry Price, who
was an esteemed paranormal researcher at the time would come Jeff,
the talking mongoos would go quiet. Price actually said, I'm
not sure if I've been involved in a tragedy or
a farce. But a lot of esteemed people heard the
(40:24):
mongoose and it went on for a long time, and
even to their daughter VOIRI died in two thousand and five,
and then even into her death, she said he was real,
and I wish he weren't. So, yeah, I really like
that story because you have this mysterious creature who almost
definitely was not a mongoose. But was he a ghost?
(40:46):
Was he just a hoax?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Was it just a voice?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
Well, they said, he's like, oh, I will put my
handprints here, and then the handprints are just ridiculous, like no,
you push a spoon into like that's in no way
a fingerprint. And he's like, oh, here's some of my hair,
and it's like that's the dog's hair. And but this
is a very intelligent family and so they would not hope,
(41:11):
they would not give the hair if they knew that
it was obviously going to be a hoax, like it
made them look very stupid, and yet they kept going.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Right, they wouldn't take it for testing or something.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Right, they wouldn't take it for testing, they wouldn't have
given in those fingerprints. He took photos of them, of
Jeff and Jeff, and it looks not only did it
look ridiculous, but every photo seemed to show a different
thing that you can't like, maybe it's a doll. Who knows.
There was actually a court case about it because one
(41:41):
of the co authors of the Haunting of Cashion's Gap
there was like business shenanigans, and so someone tried to
get him fired from the BBC, and so he took
it to court as libel and he won I think
over five hundred thousand dollars in today's money for the
(42:03):
libel for this, and that actually changed civil law or
civil service law, because then they had something called the
Stamp Act or the Stamp Investigation. I forget which where
they're like where the BBC is like, did we do
anything wrong here? I don't think so, but just to
be safe, we're going to change it. So we're going
(42:25):
to change it so you can't be fired for believing
something silly basically, and so that came to our civil
service law. So this little mongoose, this little cryptid actually
changed the law and was like a tabloid star. So
I love the whole concept of him and sad he's
also very time limited because in nineteen forty three, I
(42:50):
think was the last potential appearance, and that's when Jim Irving,
the patriarch of that family, died. So there's somebody to
be said that they were giving all this energy. You know,
there was so much belief around this one ridiculous thing,
and that gave it power and strength, and his you know,
interest died down, like Jeff, seemed to fade away, and
(43:11):
I'm very interested in like the cryptids, it only seemed
to exist that once, Like the Hopkinsville Goblins, which you know,
this a family was beset by these bulletproof, floating, glowing,
big eared things. You know, they went to the police.
There was evidence of gunshots and they seemed like aliens.
(43:34):
They seemed like they would be sci fi aliens, like
there was something there was a meteor or something that
was seen. So but again they gave all this energy.
There's so much interest. There is a Goblin festival now,
but they still were only seen that once that you know,
twelve hours and then never again.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Did you watch the Hellier series.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
I saw some of it, I didn't see all of it.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Yeah, so there is something about when people are chasing
this phenomena that weird serendipitous coincidences occur, signs if you will,
that kind of point people along the way in the research,
(44:20):
but then they kind of end up at a dead
road anyway, a dead end anyway.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
Have you ever found yourself in that situation where you
find follow a line of research it seems like something's
guiding you.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
Oh, I definitely, I definitely do feel that. With my
book Artificial Gods, you know, I had basically written the
entire thing. You know, I'm like, oh, here's this occult angle.
And there used to be a site called stumble Upon
where you just click and it would show you a
random page and I'm like, I'm just going to click
one more time, and then it showed me that Alistair
Crowley Lamb thing, and I'm like, this is exactly what
(44:57):
I wrote in my story. You know, I didn't know Crowley.
I didn't know Jack Whiteside Parsons, who was an accolade
of Crowley and also basically created the jet propulsion lab
that got us into space. So that's fun But that
was all in my book without me having the actual
those facts. But you would have thought that I knew
(45:18):
all about this case, all about Crowley when I wrote it.
So yeah, I think that it does guide you, like
if you were open to it, it will bring you
where it wants you.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
It's funny because now these are top popular topics, so
what are the odds? Maybe pretty good. But the next
question I was going to ask you before you started
talking about Hellire was Hellier, right? Isn't that weird? Yeah?
I mean, of all, there there are many topics in
(45:52):
the paranormal and I was just about to ask you that,
and then you went right into it.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Yeah. I just saw a quote someone wrote it to
Jacques fully where it's basic. I might misquote it, but
it's like uphology is a process of initiation. You start
by doing field investigations and you end up studying Arab mystics.
So it all just it's very fuzzy, like it all
does one together. So I don't think that you can
(46:18):
just you know, if you say you're, oh, I'm just
interested in UFOs, well you're not going to stay interested
in UFOs. You know, it is not something that can
stay discreete. You need to study the entire phenomena, whatever
that is, wherever it leads you.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Have you ever spent time with al s Andri No, no, okay,
in nod that he's had some stories about seeing apparently
gray like aliens in Hudson Valley woods, and there have
been other reports of people seeing these little like gray
typical gray looking aliens and in the woods. No craft,
(46:55):
you know, nothing else, just they're there. Are they a
Is this a Hudson Valley phenomena? Or have you heard
about aliens existing without any other context?
Speaker 3 (47:09):
I haven't read tchnology. Yeah, I haven't really heard of
that outside of the Hudson Valley. In Silent Invasion, she
does talk about how Ellen Crystal that she's driving and
suddenly she sees what she thinks is a butterfly and
she stops and just takes a picture. And no, it's
you know, what she thought was wings were the big eyes,
(47:32):
and you know it looks at her terrified, and it's
just that she did something it didn't expect that. If
you are unpredictable, then they don't know what to do
with you. So I think, you know, if you go
out searching for something, I don't know, just pretend you're
going for a picnic. I'm not sure, but I have heard,
you know, there's the Ellenville Tunnels around here where people
(47:54):
are like, oh, we hear sounds on there. There's something
in there. We don't know what it is. So there's
a lot of good places to hide. We have stone
chambers all over the place. And some people think that oh,
that's just you know, something that the pioneers did or
the Native Americans, or they bring it to druids. But
there are you know, stone chambers around without any explanation. Really.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Yeah. So when I was a kid in New Jersey,
well teenager, there was a it was a metaphysical magazine.
There was an issues that would come out very once
in Blue Moon and I got it at the local
like Wiccan New Age shop. And there was an article
in there about someone who was describing seeing a UFO
(48:41):
and others a UFO that would disappear into a cave
system near a river. And but of course they didn't
give you the exact location in the article. And I
was fascinated with that and I always hoped to find
out more information about what this cave is that people
have witnessed the UFOs coming in and out of Have
(49:04):
you come across anything like that.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
I've heard a couple of cases about a UFO just
sort of popping into the Hudson River and not coming
out again, but not many and not recently. But I
mean there's I'm sort of working on a book about
the Linda Cortil slash Nepolitano case, the Brooklyn Bridge Transfer UFO,
(49:32):
and in that, you know, the UFO supposedly immediately dives
under the water.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Linda is still around. Have you spoken to her?
Speaker 4 (49:42):
No?
Speaker 3 (49:43):
But I think I need to before I go further
in this book, just because you know, I you know,
I've read stuff by Carol Rainey, who is Bud Hopkins'
ex wife, where she basically heavily doubts that Linda's telling
the truth. And I would like to speak to Linda
and see what she's up to and allow her reaction,
(50:04):
because you know, I would like to just be skeptical
skeptical about that case. And then there's a couple of
things where I'm like, well, no, that doesn't add up,
and I don't know how to like gel how that
gels with the whole thing. You know, it's very weird
she seems very weird and I'm not being pejorative there necessarily,
and it you know, I I would love for this
(50:26):
just to be oh, this woman made something up and
then she duped Bud Hopkins. But I don't think that's
the whole of it. And you know, she's still around,
and I really would like to contact her and just
see what's up.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yeah, I mean you probably already know where to start
with that, but I'll I'll message you afterwards or we'll
talk afterwards. I know someone who should be able to
help with that, And I've been meaning to invite her
onto to the podcast. I just haven't gotten around to it.
So we have a few minutes left. What is the
(51:05):
most significant case in all the phenomena that for you,
that you think people should study and understand and learn about.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
Well, I think Travis Walton's is fascinating because there you
have I mean, he thinks that basically he was unpredictable
and the aliens accidentally killed him and then they were
just bringing him back. So a lot of people. You know,
you have doctor Stephen Greer who announces himself to the UFOs.
(51:39):
He will if you pay him thousands of dollars he
will do a seminar with you and teach you how
to summon the UFOs yourself. But then you have occasional
people where they are not behaving the way the UFOs
want them to behave and they might get hurt or
you know, they might see something that the phenomena does
not mean for them to see.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
So, Travis Walton, that's the big case. Do you think
that he was indeed abducted by aliens?
Speaker 3 (52:11):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
Really interesting, I wasn't sure, but no, no.
Speaker 3 (52:16):
No, I think that. You know, I've met him at
the UFO fair. Yeah, he is a very serious man.
I believe he experienced what he says he experienced. I'm
just not sure what that was. You know, he was
gone for days. Was it over a week?
Speaker 2 (52:35):
It was five days?
Speaker 3 (52:36):
Five days? And so he legitimately was gone, like he
his friends, his coworkers reported him missing. And I understand
that if a big ship just like shined a light
on my friend, I might run. I understand. That's fine.
And most of them, like they did polygraph tests and
(52:58):
most of them passed. But and so he was gone.
Where was he? And then when he returned? I don't
remember his case perfectly clearly. But I think that like
he showed damage, like something happened to him.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
Well, there were issues with his like key tone levels, yeah,
blood yeah, and he was seemingly dehydrated. He lost some weight.
So there were some minor you know, health changes, physiological changes.
And then of course he had the the stubble, you know,
(53:35):
the five days again and shaved in five days. But
of course he was hiding the woods. He could he
could not shave right, possibly, but you're right about the
the tests. So the polygraph tests Alan Dallas, His was inconclusive.
He was kind of a troublemaker at the time. He
(53:56):
got nervous around the cops and he didn't understand the
process of the polygraph that they do it several times,
that's just the standard. His understanding at the time was,
oh my god, they're doing this again. They must think
I'm guilty of something, and so he freaked out, right,
So it was inconclusive. Well years later, I believe ninety
(54:18):
two something like that, he was retested, and at that
point in his life he had he had already been
to jail, but he was on a path of recovery.
You know, he had regretted his youthful mistakes, and you know,
he was a sober minded, mature adult and he retook
a polygraph test and he passed, and so did Travis.
(54:41):
So technically everybody there passed, and of course Travis passed.
I think four of six, one was inconclusive and one
was a TV show which was just you know bs right,
So yeah, the evidence for their having been a high
strangeness event is astounding with that case.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Oh I just have one more thing, sure, Yeah, and
it always I think it's funny when people are like, oh,
they're making it up for money or prestige, because if
you get involved in this phenomena, you're not making money
and it's not going to be great for your reputation.
So if you're standing by what happened to you, yeah,
you know, that should say all it needs to say.
Speaker 2 (55:25):
All right, if everybody's listening, please check out Tom's website.
That's Tom T h O M. M quackenbush dot com.
Tom uh. One last question for you. Are dragons real?
Speaker 3 (55:44):
Komodo dragons are? I haven't seen any other dragons.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
That's a sheet.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
So if we believe in them enough, they'll become real.
I've got that, Okay, that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
I really appreciate you being on and I hopefully we'll
see each other around.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
Okay the woods, all right, all right, bye, Okay, take
care of Tom.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Okay. Thank you everyone for joining us tonight. Really appreciate
you joining in the comments, and of course that was
an awesome conversation with Tom. He's fantastic. Thank you to
the Unex Network for hosting this program and Coffee and
UFO's podcast. Thank you Margie Ka and Race Hobbs for
all you do. And I want to just give you
(56:28):
a reminder that the podcast we are back on so
straight through until the Christmas holiday season. We'll have regular shows.
Next week I have a shorter interview with Ben Hansen,
so I hope you'll appreciate that. And if you have
any thoughts Tonight's conversation future podcasts, please share down below,
(56:50):
like and please subscribe because that really really helps the channel.
So thank you, I appreciate you all. Peace and love,
and until next time, Live in the Mystery
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