April 8, 2019 • 57 mins
The New Joker Film and Batman Celebrates 80 Years
Batman recently turned 80 years old and he is still saving Gotham and putting bad guys behind bars. DC has pulled out all the stops in their celebrations but none so satisfying as releasing the first teaser trailer for Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix's "Joker" movie.
Separate from the DCEU, this standalone film will explore the origins of this iteration of the Joker as well as the depths of his inevitable madness. Madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push. We discuss the trailer, Joker, and the Batman mythos as a whole.
Batman recently turned 80 years old and he is still saving Gotham and putting bad guys behind bars. DC has pulled out all the stops in their celebrations but none so satisfying as releasing the first teaser trailer for Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix's "Joker" movie.
Separate from the DCEU, this standalone film will explore the origins of this iteration of the Joker as well as the depths of his inevitable madness. Madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push. We discuss the trailer, Joker, and the Batman mythos as a whole.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the nerd party. It'sgoing Yes, marry me. I love
you and I like you. Ilove you and I like you. I
love that woman. I love amore than sharks love bloody. Hello,
(00:32):
I'm tristener Adel and I'm the girl. And this is Nerd Nuptial, Episode
one hundred and twenty seven. Ifthis is your first time listening, we
are a married couple looking at lifethrough a nerdy lens. How are you
doing today? Well, it isa lazy Sunday, so I'm great.
It is a fantastically lazy sunday.We spend a good amount of it in
bed. Yeah, which makes areally good sunday. I think that's that's
(00:55):
how you spend Sunday. And wewent to the mall with the with the
kid with the kiddo, and uhit was we got to watch some great
British bake off or whatever it isthat's baking show. Yeah. You you
turned me onto that pretty hard,I did. Yeah, I won that
one. Although now you've like stolenmy show that I watch while like the
(01:17):
baby naps during the day. Youkeep doing this to me, I swear
like I always like try to findsomething that you don't want to watch so
that I can watch about myself,and you always end up like coming in
and watching it and then deciding like, no, to watch that without me.
I want to watch it. Well, yeah, I'm sorry, but
I just have such a great taste. As you tell our listeners often I
(01:40):
do. I do. I'm prettysure I've asked this question before to the
listeners, but I want to doit again just in case because you guys,
um, because this is a showabout being married, I want to
ask you, guys, what's ashow that you watch on your own?
Like, what's a show that youhave that is just yours? That because
a long time listeners know that wewatch everything together, almost everything, but
(02:05):
if you're out with your friends orout doing something, I have something that
I go to to watch and samewith you. Yeah, so we want
to know what you guys watch onyour own that you don't feel the name
and do you like having something that'sall your own or is it kind of
one of those things where you're like, well, I wish that my you
know, significant other would watch itwith me, like Star Trek, right,
(02:30):
but like, no, I haveto watch about myself or is it
sometimes like oh no, I reallydo enjoy watching something by myself and it's
only me. Yeah, let usknow. What you can do is you
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(02:51):
find us at join nerd Party onTwitter and all the other places you just
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Insane Robin. Now today, assome of you know, this was last
week, but it's kind of likea long time celebration. Is the eightieth
anniversary of Batman, which is veryimportant to this nerd nuptial. Yeah,
(03:15):
it's very important to this marriage,to this household, and hopefully to this
two year old baby that we havesomeday someday because she has Batman pajamas,
she does, but she prefers herSpider Man one. Why did you have
to bring it up? Why didyou feel that she's her own person?
And that's okay, that's okay,that's well. You know, this is
(03:37):
the eightieth anniversary of Batman, andhe's just like, yeah, but Spiderman's
cool. No, I'm saying thatUll thinks that cool. She knows that
daddy loves Batman, she understands thatand mommy. But yes, yes,
I was gonna say, it's notjust It's not just me. I mean,
that's one of the reasons why Imarried you is because you're a hardcore
into Batman just like I am.But so, like, yes, there's
(04:00):
there's a there's a lot of eventsgoing on. Like DC Streaming had an
event where you could watch every singlething that Batman was in for free on
one day. I think it waslike March twenty ninth they did that.
It would be very difficult to getthat all in one day. I don't
think that was the goal, butyou had access to it. Okay,
(04:21):
let's follow one day and then likethere's there's anniversary editions of the comics coming
out, and um and what wasreally great and what I and you and
hopefully a big chunk of the worldit was excited about was the first trailer
for Joker. Yeah movie, Yescame out. It dropped. I mean,
(04:43):
we've been excited about this since theybasically like just did a little teas
tester. It was like a testeven even yeah, it was like it
was it was a camera test,it was a costume test. But actually
you and I were even excited aboutthis well before. Oh yeah they had
any kind of image just when theywere talking about it, because they were
like, there was a rumor thatScorsese was going to be involved and that
(05:05):
Walking Phoenix was going to be Joker, and so we're like, uh,
yes, yeah, actually no,Originally it was like Leonardo Caprio or something
was going to be Joker and Scorsesewas involved, but that was just a
rumor and it turned out to beWalking Phoenix and it was going to be
inspired by early Scorsese work, rightright, which makes both of us tingle
(05:27):
in all the right places. It'stoo much information. Yeah, so um,
every time I basically walk away fromthe television, Tristan is watching this
trailer, Like true, how manytimes do you think you've watched whenever?
Like you go to the kitchen,get a snack, Yeah, you go
and wash your hands, or yougo check on the baby. I'm like,
(05:49):
oh, oh, she's gone,okay too, I swear every time,
like I can really, I guess. So, if you haven't seen
it yet, why are you whyare you listening to this podcast, but
pause for a second. Take thetwo minutes. Yeah, watch the trailer
waiting. It's it's it's amazing,it's so I think it basically from our
(06:12):
perspective, it is the right tonethat we were hoping like. It maintained
the tone that we were hopefully expecting. Yes, yes, yes, because
what can you really expect except forwhat you're told or what you you imagine,
you know exactly, But I meanthe fact that it's a gritty um,
you know, it does feel likeearly scores asy whether or they're going
(06:35):
for And it looks like a smallerfilm. Yes, it like there was
big explosions. You didn't see anyblue pillar in the sky of internet.
Oh my gosh, no CGI whatsoever? Right, Um? Definitely a drama,
yes, a psychological threat, right, yeah, something revolving around criminality.
Yeah. Yeah, it's exactly whatit should be. Yeah, all
(06:58):
about the mind of this villain.And it's the exact opposite And I'm not
saying this as a criticism. It'sthe exact opposite of Suicide Squad. It's
the exact opposite of Jared Leto's Jokerin every way. And again I'm not
saying that as a criticism, right, it's just an interpretation it is and
it takes place in nineteen eighty one, and um, which is interesting if
(07:23):
you think about the timeline because youhave a young Bruce, Like it's been
reported that like in the trailer youactually see a young Bruce Wayne. Yeah,
isn't he the kid? He's thekid through the through the gate that
joker, Arthur Fleeke I think ishis name, is for literally forcing a
smile on Bruce's face, Like hetakes his fingers, his thumbs and is
(07:46):
stretching his skin, which seems invasive. And so that makes you wonder like,
oh, okay, so is thisis like they were outside maybe Bruce
was at a cemetery. That's whereeverybody's mind is going, Like makes sense.
He's visiting Martha and Thomas Wayne's gravesor something like that, right,
And then it makes you wonder,like you know, like was I'm getting
(08:09):
ahead of myself, but it umlike, how do you how do you
feel about that? How do youfeel about a young Bruce Wayne being in
this in this story? Is itforcing too much? End do you think
is it necessary? I don't thinkthat like any Batman at all would necessarily
be necessary for this story. Butbecause he does, he is you know
(08:35):
the counterpart too, joker. Ithink that you have to like hint at
it, And if you're going tohint at it, then I'd rather it
be that way than like, yeah, Batman exactly, or even like a
you know, an older Bruce Waynewho's you know, making himself into Batman
(08:56):
at the moment, Like, Ithink I'd rather it be this then I
don't know, I get and seehim. Yeah, I think I don't
even think I needed that. It'sfine if they do do that. Yeah,
yeah, I think, yes,I would if if a young Bruce
Wayne was not in it or evenyeah, like if a young Bruce Wayne
(09:18):
wasn't even born yet or not evenin it yet or not even in it,
I would have been fine. It'sit's you know, it's a teaser
trailer, so like who knows,like that might be all that there is.
It's just like a walk on roll. Maybe that's all that there is.
Who knows. But I would havebeen fine without it. But I'm
one percent okay with it. Somepeople are kind of like like do we
(09:39):
really need that? Like are theytrying to be Batman adjacent, you know,
like are they trying to force itin there? But then like I
heard one person say like, wellare they only are they shoehorning Bruce in
there just to make it a Gothamstory? And then some people are like
does it even need to be aGotham story? I don't understand that our
(10:00):
um, because if it wasn't aGotham story, then you have a man
who goes insane and start dressing upas a clown in an urban setting.
No Joker, is he exists inGotham? Yeah, so well, you
(10:20):
know, I think the argument isjust like does it have to be Joker?
Like, oh, like does it? Which I don't understand that argument.
It's just like, this is thestory they want to tell about Joker,
right, And so that seems oddto me. I think it's an
odd argument because we're so used toseeing people flying around in capes and big
explosions and people like as human crocodilesrunning around in the sewers and everything like
(10:43):
that. Right. Um. Ithink that's why people are just like,
oh, well, just they shouldhave just made it a psychological thriller of
a of a guy going insane orsomething like Yeah, but I think that,
like the Dark Knight is kind ofproof that you know, a lot
of us, including this internuptual,really appreciates a Gotham grounded in reality,
(11:05):
and clearly they are trying to likego for that audience that likes that grounded
because that's I mean, honestly,that's a huge reason why I like Batman.
Like, even though he's still asuperhero, personally, I feel like
he's more grounded in reality than likea Superman or even like absolutely you know,
(11:26):
the Avengers or something like that.I mean not talking, do you
see completely, But I feel likethat's the reason why I like Batman well,
and that's the beauty of it isbecause as everybody knows that Batman has
no superpowers. Whose superpowers is hisintellect and his detective mind and wealth and
his wealth in his gadgets, right, And so that's why, like some
(11:48):
people including myself, are talking aboutone big reason why Justice League didn't do
well, it's because we've been conditionedfor so long that these DC characters exist
in a separate universe to themselves cinematically, right, Like, obviously there's the
Justice League comics and the universe ofthe comics where everybody exists in the same
(12:11):
universe, yeah, obviously, butcinematically you have the Superman franchise, you
have the Batman franchise, and evenoutside of that, like even within the
DCU, like when you have thatstandalone film of Wonder Woman, she feels
like she's alone. Yeah, it'skind of true. It's like it's not
like they're talking about like, oh, well, you know, Batman's busy
(12:35):
right now, so that's why WonderWoman's working by yourself. You know.
It's yes, it's you know,you know what I'm saying. But like
I know, it's one of thosethings where like it's almost like even though
they exist in the same world,they don't acknowledge to other people unless they
are coming all together for the JusticeLeague or like just at the end of
the movie, like, hey,just do you remember, like there are
(12:56):
other people? And when you lookat the Avengers and the interconnected universe that
Marvel has that they've established cinematically,right, everything is connected, everything is
there, everything is self right,and I almost feel like they kind of
like, I don't know, Ikind of accepted a little bit more in
that universe just because they've almost kindof established like, well, this issue
(13:18):
isn't Avengers worthy, Like okay,well, Aunt Man can handle this by
himself, and Captain American can handlethis, but we'll maybe pull in this
character to help him. Whereas whenit comes to like an Avengers movie,
you know, like the end ofthe world is coming because you need all
of them, Whereas with the JusticeLeague, I mean, yes, okay,
(13:41):
here's the thing though, like wejust watched Aquaman for the first time,
and yes, we are very lateto the party, but we purposely
relate to the party because we dislikeJustice League that much so and we just
were not huge like I don't knowfans of Aquaman, like just from Jason
Momot and just in general, likeAquaman to me was always like the lamest
(14:05):
of course, I mean that's justkind of like common knowledge, right,
he was like the lamest of theJustice League. Yes, so it's the
Hawkeye of Yeah, so we watchedit. We watched it. And here's
where again, like the DC,you does it poorly, is that technically
(14:28):
it was going to be the endof everything as well in in an Aquaman
like, yeah, they were gonnawage war, but on the Superman didn't
come and help him or that's whythey made Aquaman Superman, right exactly.
It was like so much it waslike all noise anyway. But it's like
(14:50):
they couldn't like they didn't do agood job of being like, well,
this is only an Aquaman issue.Yeah, you know, yeah, it's
just yeah, I just I loveI miss smaller stories. Yeah, and
I think that's why we're gravitating towardsJoker. Yes, and we gravitate towards
Beman Begins, Dark Knight and DarkKnight Rises because they're smaller stories. They
(15:11):
either involve just just take care ofGotham. Yeah, we yeah, we've
talked about this so many times before. But Beaman Begins was like, originally
it was just the narrows, andthen it was just like, oh,
the waterman's of the city are gonnaexplode, right, And then you have
Dark Night where it was like thecity was not going to explode. It
was just two boatloads of people.And then on the third one, that's
(15:35):
when it was just like, okay, let's up the ante, right,
the city is going to be destroyed. But that's that's it. Like,
and if you actually think about likehow many actual explosions happened Yeah, it
wasn't. It's not like we havethese like CGI epic like battles where you're
wizard battles. Yeah, it's notlike that. So yes, having something
(15:58):
small where we just deal with theinside of Joker's mind sounds fantastic. And
I think this is a sign.This is the first correct me if I'm
wrong. This is the first DCsuperhero super Okay, d C Comics,
which I know is redundant um,but this is the first DC Comics movie
(16:22):
separate from the dc EU since theDark Knight Rises. I think that's right,
because after their Dark Knight Rises,you had you had Man of Steel,
and then that was the beginning ofthe DCU. Yeah, you know
this the Snyder verse, right,Steel and then um, Batman v.
Superman, then Wonder Woman, thenJustice League. Oh there's suicide squads in
(16:45):
there, okay, and then JusticeLeague and then um, this is completely
separate, completely, one hundred percentseparate. This is its own universe.
It doesn't exist within the Burton universe, not the Snyder universe, not anything
else. This is its own,so creating their own thing, and they're
starting with Joker, not just startingthat's just it. That's just it.
(17:06):
We're just like, I'm gonna makea Joker. This is the movie,
Yes, yes, exactly, thisis the movie. And that is so
beautiful. Honestly, I'm surprised thatthey gave money for that they gave I
think it's fifty million, and whatI cannot believe. We live in an
age where fifty million is like,oh here you go. Yeah, and
(17:27):
its little film, and it likethe beauty of the film, Like of
the trailer of Joker. It lookssmall, yeah, and I don't want
to say cheap, but it looksit doesn't look like it cost three hundred
million dollars, right, it lookslike it looks like it costs that much.
And it's just crazy because like that'show much. Like big budget movies
(17:48):
used to cost fifty millions, right, and now we're just like I have
fifty million whatever, right right?Yeah. I think the tone is right.
I think like everything that I'm seeinglooks right to me. The cinematography,
yeah, the color palette, yes, yes, the browns yes,
the deep deep purples oh yeah,dark green, it's all yes, yeah,
(18:15):
the sunset you know, like yeah, everything everything. Now. I
know that a lot of people aregoing to maybe say like, do we
really need an origin story for theJoker? Yes, a lot of people
are bringing that up. Um,how do you feel about that? I
say, bring it on. I'vealways been intrigued by origin stories. I
(18:37):
think I'm I don't fault people fornot specifically wanting an origin story for the
Joker because like the greatness that isthe Joker is um kind of like the
More from Titus, you know,like he is, he's crazy and no
(19:00):
one knows his motivations. He justdoes evil things. It's very Shakespearian and
so literally Shakespearece like just to seewhat happens. Yeah, and that's and
I think that's the beauty of theJoker is that he's crazy and he's a
wild card. You have no ideawhat he's thinking or what he's going to
do next. Well, and thatalso influences how Batman treats him, because
if you can kind of get tothe root of why someone does something,
(19:23):
then can't you possibly prevent it rightor correct it or corrected right well what
they're going to do next when youcan figure out their motivations. And so
I totally get that, and Ifeel the same way to an extent because
I feel like this kind of thinkingwas amplified in two thousand and eight definitely.
(19:44):
Well, Like, yeah, whenyou have the joker saying like I'm
this way because of this and I'mthis way, there was no true story.
It all was just made up,and like the second time he tells
that story, you're like, oh, okay, yes, no, it's
not because of his past or anythingthat's happened to him. It is because
(20:06):
he doesn't care and he just wantsto see as you know, as as
Alfred said, the world burn,Yeah, exactly. And the first time
we saw it together, I rememberthinking, like I remember when he says,
like, do you want to knowhow I got these scars? I
remember thinking, ah, we don'tneed to know, right, we don't
need to know. They don't explainit, don't explain it. And then
(20:29):
he, like you said that hedoes that second time. I was just
like, Okay, that's cool,but it's weird of I always thought that
was. Looking back, I'm justlike, why did I think that?
Like, why was I so againstfiguring out where he came from when we've
seen his origins so many times before, right? I think Nolan created a
(20:49):
version of that character that was meticulouslydrawn out to the point of obfuscation where
it was appetizing and you didn't wantto know about him because of like what
um you know, like Gary Oldmansaid, he's just like there's nothing in
his pocket but knives and lent allhis closer custom custom You know that he's
(21:11):
an enigma. You have no ideawhat's going on. It take it's away
that identity that we think we canfigure out. But Joaquin Phoenix's Joker,
Todd phillips Joker is not Heath Ledger'sJoker, right, It's not Nolan's Joker.
It's a different Joker. It's it'sit's that is that is that origin
story for that Joker, right right? And that's why I'm okay with it,
(21:32):
because we got an origin story withthe first cinematic version of Joker.
We got an origin story, likefor like a third of the film,
he's Jack Napier right right, right. We see him thrown in the vat
of chemicals at as Chemicals Boom Originstory nineteen eighty nine. There's thirty years
ago, yeah, yeah, andthen everyone was okay with authentic everything.
(21:53):
Yeah. And also even like somany people, I don't understand this because
I'm not going to start ranting,but are you sure? I am sure.
So many people say whenever Joker comesup in conversation, people say,
oh, I wish Mark Hamil's Jokergot more love, do you? Because
every single Joker conversation I've had orseen, he's brought up as people saying
(22:15):
he's the best, and he deservesit, he deserves the attention. Um.
But I feel like a lot ofpeople say it just to make themselves
feel cool because they're choosing the animatedversion as their favorite version, which is
fine if it is, but Ifeel like people use it as a card
to say like, I'm cooler thanyou because I'm doing something that's that's a
little indie like they feel it's it'slike they're exactly That's what I'm saying.
(22:38):
Is ridiculous about it is that everybodythinks that because it's true Mark Hamil's Joker,
like it was a genius interpretation.We've seen his origin story Mark Hamil's
Joker. We've seen multiple origin storiesof Mark Hamill's Joker, which in itself
is a part of the character becausewe saw we saw a pre Joker Mark
(23:00):
Hamill in mask of the Phantasm,and we also saw a different type of
interpretation in the Killing Joke, whichwas animated and voiced by Mark Camill.
And so we've seen in the comicbooks they have tons like they've had multiple
origin stories over the years, andeven just recently a couple of years ago,
when they rebooted it the comic bookUniverse once again after the New fifty
(23:25):
two. Um, they straight upsaid there are three Jokers. Oh really
yeah, all with different backstories thatexists in the universe, in that one
universe, so like over time,like kind of like no, not really,
it was it was it was weird. I didn't really dig on that,
like all within Gotham. Three Jokersand Gotham. Yeah, it was
(23:48):
weird. Okay, Um, Ididn't really like that. Okay, you'll
have to explain that to me later. I don't play understand it myself.
Yeah, so, like I couldbe getting something wrong, but I remember
reading that issue going what But that'sthe thing is that, like it's we
have been inundated by this. Sofor people to say, like I don't
want an origin story, that's fine, but don't deny that there are so
(24:12):
many, right, this is notsomething new this is not novel right right.
For me, I sometimes get alittle fatigued by origin stories. I
think, um, just because likehow many times do I have to like
see you know, Bruce Wayne's parentsdie, Yeah, exactly, Like I
(24:33):
don't need that. Like that wasone of my biggest critiques of that.
Maybe Superman was like I don't needthat, Like, let's move on,
Like I know who Batman is,I know who Uncle Ben's exactly. But
with the Joker, because even thoughit's he's super popular villain, I don't
like, it's just interesting to seethat backstory explored because it's a villain,
(24:59):
I think, um, and Idon't think we've seen it probably to the
point of exhaustion. So for me, I'm I'm super excited. And also
to see a different interpretation. Um. So, like I do understand the
idea of people saying like, ohI don't because you know, as of
right now, my favorite Joker interpretationfor sure would be, um, you
(25:25):
know the Dark Night he led Yeah, Heath Ledger version where we don't know
so much that it like ruins itright, Like I get that, But
at the same time, I lovethe Joker character so much and the crazy
that is that character that I'm like, let's see a different interpretation, let's
why not exactly, why not havemore of a good thing? And that's
(25:51):
what I really don't understand is thatpeople feel like it's going to ruin something
for them if they know more aboutthe Joker. You just say, I
don't like that version. Yeah,that's the thing. It's just a version.
Like when I go and watch TheDark Night again for the twenty fifth
time, I'm not gonna like,after watching Waking Phoenix's Joker, I'm not
gonna be thinking to myself, Oh, man, if only Heath Ledger's Joker
(26:15):
could have made it work with ZazieBeats. No, it's not going to
work that way, right, it'sa different movie. It's a different exactly.
Like I didn't particularly like I thinkit was the Mask's Phantasm's version.
Was it, Yeah, well theydidn't really go too much into it.
Or was it which A one wasthe where like he had a wife and
oh it was the killing joke.Okay, I didn't really like that now
(26:38):
interpretation. I don't love his backstory, Like I was just like, like,
I didn't really like it. MI didn't like the Red Hood.
I think that's what he's called thered Hood storyline, where's yeah yeah,
yeah, yeah yeah, like hehad to get money, right, is
it? Yeah? I didn't likethat, Um, but that doesn't mean
that like every time I see theJoker, I'm like, oh, well
(26:59):
he messed up there. Yeah yeah, like oh man, it's too bad
his wife died or right, likecouldn't make it as a real comedian.
You know, like no one's thinkingthat, So you're really just complaining to
be complaining. But whatever you do, you or you could just not see
it right. And And I'm notsaying that to be snyde. I really
(27:22):
am not. I am not sayingthat to be like well fine, Like
like whenever I write a bad reviewfor a TV show on the nerdputty dot
Com, like there's some mouth breatherwho comes to me and says, like,
well, then don't watch it ifyou don't like it. I'm like,
I watched the first episode. I'mreviewing the first episode. You're like
that kind of thing. I'm notdoing that. Like, if you are
so hardcore against knowing any kind oforigin story, yeah, then don't go
(27:47):
see it. And like that's withinyour power not to go see it again.
I'm not trying to be snyde.I'm not trying to be sassy.
I'm just I'm just saying like,like seriously, like Okay, it's cool,
right, Like there's you still havethe DCU, you know, like
you still have another suicide squad comingout, um, and other things,
yeah, other things. Yeah.No. I I think it's one of
(28:12):
those things where it's your choice,right and in anything like, you always
have the choice to whether you wantto explore that or not. Now here's
the thing though, Um, justbecause we're talking about continuity and versioning and
everything like that, I guess itcould potentially be possible for Walking Phoenix Joker
to come up again. Because MattReeves's trilogy of Batman movies that's that's going
(28:37):
to be shooting soon. There's arumor that it's going to take place in
the nineties. So if they startthis process in the eighties with Joker,
then he could potentially, like maybedepending on how well it goes exactly,
it could become the Joker in thoseupcomings. Now you could be an older
Joker, kind of like a JackNicholson Joker, right, Um, in
that in that trilogy that's interesting.Yeah, huh, I wonder, like,
(29:03):
yeah, I wonder about that.I'm okay if they don't do that,
because I like the idea of somethingbeing temporary. I like the idea
of just a one off like thisis that story, Let's do that,
And I want DC to do thatmore like the old days. Yeah,
yeah, I get that, andI think that sometimes it would be refreshing
in this way that like it doesn'tnecessarily mean that you have to like continue
(29:26):
on in the franchise, like okay, this was the interpretation of walking Phoenix
as a joker, end of storyand now moving on moving. Yeah,
I don't see Phoenix as being someonewho would like, Okay, I'll sign
a seven picture deal. No,he doesn't feel like that. But who
knows. Yeah they when they backup a dump truck of money. Yeah,
(29:49):
I don't know, to your frontdoor. You're on the human Yeah
exactly. Yeah. So in MattReeves's Matt Reeves, the director of the
rebooted plenty of the Apes franchise.Um, he's saying all the right things,
that's really he really is. He'ssaying all the right things about like
going back to the detective roots.That's what we like and like really focusing
(30:12):
on that about about Batman being adetective about figuring things out. And also,
um, I think they said thatthey want a younger Batman okay,
which is interesting, Yeah, becausewe got one with Christian Bale and Batman
Begins. Um, so it's notlike it's the first time that it's ever
(30:33):
happened. How young, Yeah,I don't know that. That also concerns
me, Like how young are wetalking? I don't know. Well,
I mean because I mean in thecomics. Oh, it's there's so many
different versions of everything like that,so depends on what you read. Like
the lore is that he's older thancollege aged, okay, which is still
young, like if you want togo twenty two yeah, um, and
(30:56):
Christian Bale was not twenty two up, but we saw him as a younger
person, right, you know,like when he got kicked out of college
and everything like that. Um,but it's a it makes you wanted because
I don't I don't want another BatmanBegins. I get it. I would
like to just go like he's fine, it would be one hundred percent okay
(31:19):
if he was young and in thenineties and everything like that. But I
liked what Batman eighty nine did whereit's just boom. Yeah, Batman is
Batman and this was the first cinematicBatman and it was boom. No origin
story there you go. Well,I mean they got the flashbacks, right,
but he was an established Batman.Um. I mean he proved himself
(31:42):
and he was still mysterious to Gotham. Sure, but it wasn't like he
was testing out a suit. Hewasn't trying to he wasn't digging out his
cave, right, Um. AndI loved Batman Begins for that, right,
but it's we've seen it right,Yeah, to be fifteen years Yeah,
when like by the time it comesout Batman Begins, it's gonna be
(32:04):
fifteen years ago. Oh my gosh, I feel old. That's insane,
right yeah, And so we're talkingabout like fifteen years is too soon.
Guys waited a good solid two decadesbefore you get another origin. That's so
funny. Yeah, No, Imean again, like I think I don't
(32:27):
know, Like, okay, Soquestions, since it's the eightieth anniversary of
of Batman being Batman, Um,when did you first fall in love with
Batman? When did this love affairstart? For you, Tristan. My
uh, my first um was okay, I was Batman for Halloween? But
(32:50):
why were four times in a row? But why I'm trying to I'm trying
to think back, because yeah,I think I was five, okay when
I really fell in love with Batman. I was it was it was Michael
Keaton's Batman. Really yeah. Iwas born in eighty six and m Batman
(33:12):
eighty nine came out in eighty nine. And now obviously I was too young
to watch it then or to experienceit, but my dad showed it to
me at a young age. YeahI was, Yeah, I just I
was super I have very early memorieswatching that. We fast forward parts of
Winning the Poo today for Ripley,so not on the same track. Well,
(33:37):
no, this was fast forwarded twoNo Batman. Yeah, Batman eighty
nine was fast forwarded for me.A great deal, A great deal.
But I was I was super youngwhen it came out, and so like
it was that movie. I thinkit was probably when I probably kicked into
high gear when Batman Returns came out, which I was not allowed to see.
(33:58):
Okay, I wasn't allowed to seeBatman Returns, but I was allowed
to see Batman okay, And Iremember watching the Adam West TV show with
my grandma and grandpa but not reallythinking anything of it. Yeah, well
it's a very different Batman. Yeah. I was just like but even as
a child, I didn't really digit. I was just kind of like,
oh, this scoofy is fun,it's colorful, whatever. But when
(34:22):
I saw Michael Keaton's Batman, Iwas like, okay, wow, like
this this is my Batman. Okay. And like when Batman Returns came out,
they started, you know, theywere promoting it heavily. There was
a lot of toys, there wasa lot of tie and stuff, you
know, Taco Bell, McDonald's allhad that kind of advertising, and so
that kind of swept me in.And then I was like whoo, whoa,
(34:43):
what's going on here? And Dad'slike, oh, well, this
is the sequel to the Jack Nicholsonone. Let's watch that. And so
yeah, I think that's when,yes, when Batman Returns came out,
okay, like a couple of yearsafter eight minutes, so early nineties.
So yeah, so I was likefive or six, Yeah, okay,
all right, and that was thatwas the who you know, like and
and then like that's at the sametime, that's when, um, the
(35:06):
animated series came out. Okay,for for me, the animated series,
I was going to ask you,was that for you? Yeah? For
me, the animated series was whenI started like King Batman and what about
it, like kind of uh,the darker tone. Um, the female
villains, Oh yeah, I thoughtthey were cool. Yeah, yeah,
(35:27):
exactly. Um. I just thoughthe was like a really neat and just
brooding and mysterious, and so Ireally liked that. I really liked the
animated series a lot, like Ialways tried to catch it. Um.
I'm a little embarrassed to say that. I also I was young. Don't
judge me too harshly. Um,I when I didn't watch any of them,
(35:51):
Michael Keaton, I didn't watch anyof the Tim Burton ones, Like
I think it was too scary atthe time, right, Um, But
we did watch Batman in Robin andit had such a bad movie. But
I really liked it at the timewhen I was a kid. I know
this, No, I did watchit and I liked it at the time.
(36:13):
I don't know, I don't know, like I like, I didn't,
I did like it. I willadmit I really didn't like it,
and um, then obviously, likeafter that, I realized it was terrible.
But well, that's the story ofso many childs. Well, yeah,
of course, I just liked theidea of Batman, right, and
(36:37):
I can see it, like continued, I didn't see any of the other
ones. Um, but then forsure the solidification would be you know,
the Dark Knight trilogy. Yeah,maybe you know, begins everything like that.
Yeah. When when Batman Forever cameout, like obviously, because it
was directed by Schumacher, it wasa very different film from Batman and Batman
(36:58):
Returns. But I never even thoughI wasn't allowed to watch Batman Returns.
Once they actually watched it, Iwas like, oh, this is garbage.
Like I don't, I don't,I still don't like it. Like
I'll watch it sometimes just because it'sKeaton's Batman and I love Keaton's Batman and
Michelle Peiffer's amazing, but oh,Danny de Vito and just blah blah blah
blah blah. But when Batman Forevercame out, I kind of reconnected with
(37:20):
it. I was just like,oh, this is cool. This is
nothing like Batman. Eighty nine.But that's okay because to me it was
it wasn't the same Batman, eventhough it's technically supposed to be, right,
I still I think of it asBurton and Schumacher. Yeah, it's
easy to see it, like,Okay, they're different. Yeah, And
so I love I still do.I still love Val Kilmer as Batman.
(37:43):
I really do. Judge me allyou want, I don't care. I
love Val Kilmer as Batman. Ithought it was great. I thought Chris
o'donna was fine and and um,oh my gosh, I love Nicole Kidman
who that hit me at the rightage, And um yeah, I just
like, to this day, Ithink Batman Forever is a good movie.
It's goofy, it's hokey. Yeah, it's over the top, it's it's
(38:04):
neon. But it's horrible. Ijust it is garbage. I couldn't.
I could not get behind that itwas okay. So I think what it
was was like it was again atthe rate age that I was like allowed
to watch that one because of thetiming. I think that I came out
and I remember my brother being reallyscared for some reason, and I think
(38:29):
I know, um, but Ithink it was maybe I just felt cool
because I wasn't scared of it.Yeah, closed my eyes once, guys,
So yeah, I'm pretty hardcore.Also was four years older, so
again not so cool. But Ithink it was just the idea of like,
(38:50):
Okay, there's a bad cave andlike just the things I had seen
in the animated like it was justlike again, if you think about it,
though, I don't think I reallyhad seen that many superhero films at
that point, to be honest withyou, well, not a lot came
out by then, right at theSuperman films, and I kind of think
that was kind of the deal,was like, oh, this was one
of the first like live action onesI'd actually been able to see. And
(39:15):
the animated series is directly influenced bythe first by the Michael Keaton nineteen eighty
nine, so much that the themesong is the same. Yeah yeah,
yeah, And uh, what's reallyinteresting is that, like Kevin Conroy was
the first actor to have a dualpersonality and dual voice of Batman, because
(39:35):
like in Batman eighty nine, MichaelKeaton just kind of just kind of whispers,
He's like jokers, you know,like that kind of thing. So
he's not really changing his voice isthis whispering, right, But Kevin Conroy
like in the first episode, it'sjust like like when he saw as Batman,
he's just like it's all graveling.He's like, yes, Alfred,
let it come over here, likeplease bring me some tea. And then
he like he picks up the phone. He's like, hey, how's it
going. I'm Bruce Wayne, youknow, Like that's right, that's him.
(39:59):
Yeah, I was his decision.Now everybody does that exactly. They
have a Batman voice and a BruceWayne voice and like it's just crazy.
George Cleaney did not. Oh mygosh, you're right, you're right.
He was just George Cleaney, let'sbe honest. Like even Val Kilmer kind
of like took it on the lowkey like he was just like he changed
(40:21):
his voice just a little bit withGeorge, just George clear. The first
time you see him and he popsin, he's like, hi, Freeze,
I'm Batman. You're like, no, you're not. No, you're
not George. No, you're notYou're picking up a paycheck. Oh,
I'm so embarrassed that that was oneof my Yeah, that's one of the
(40:42):
things that I did like it though, I know to this day, like
not that long ago, we dida marathon and we're gonna do it again
because they're coming out in four KJust so you know, f y,
I put on the calendar the originalBatman films A yeah, are coming out
in four key either this spring orsummer, most likely summer. And um,
I've already bought them, pre orderedthem and uh it's uh what was
(41:08):
I saying just telling everyone that we'rewatching them, just telling no, like
no, like when we we wentback and rewatched them. Um, I
was like, Okay, we gotto be a hardcore about this. Yeah,
we can't. We're not gonna skipanything. We have to go through.
We gotta go through them. Westarted with Batman and then ended with
Dark Knight Rises and with like Returnsand Forever and bat and Robin in there.
(41:31):
And while you're watching Batman Robin,it's one of those movies where you're
just like, oh man, thisis crazy. It's entertaining though, because
it is. It's like a funwatch, like late at night, And
I'm pretty sure we always end updoing that one late at night and just
kind of making fun of it thewhole time. So adian the anniversary,
(41:54):
what did you think of Batman Beginswhen it first came out, like when
you first saw the trailer or whenChristian Bale was announced, you know,
like were you tapped in by then? I don't think I necessarily was,
honestly, like I was excited togo and see it, but I don't
think it really like solidified one hundredpercent until the Dark Night, and then
(42:17):
I was just like one hundred percentin. I was wide eyed, like
I really into yes when because Iwas. It came out in two thousand
and five, and I think thetrailer came out in two thousand and four.
I could be wrong, but Iremember downloading the trailer online and that
was new, Like that was newfor me, Okay, downloading a trailer
(42:40):
online, Like it wasn't It wasn'tlike one of the first to do it,
but like it was still novel enoughthat it was interesting. And I
remember waiting forever because back then youcould choose if you could download in an
ST seven twenty or ten eight,And I waited like three hours to download
the ten eighty version just so Icould get in pristine quality. I didn't
even have a tenaighty monitor. Um, and so I remember watching it and
(43:07):
I didn't really know too much aboutChris Nolan, you know, at that
time he did and this was intwo thousand and five. This was in
two thousand and five or like twothousand and four when the trailer came out,
I can't remember, but like atthat time he did Insomnia. He
did a Memento and I really likeMemento, but I didn't like Insomnia.
So it was just kind of like, Okay, I don't like I didn't
(43:28):
it wasn't worshiped as he is today, right. Um. But that that
opening shot of Christian Bale walking throughthe mountains, not wearing a suit,
just just up in rags. Yeah, just that got me right there.
I was just like, this isgoing to be different, This is going
to be good, this is goingto be a movie. Yeah. I
(43:50):
think that that was one impression Ihad from Batman. Beagins too, was
like, Okay, this is nottypical, Like they're going in a different
direction and they're telling a different story. I feel like that's kind of where
I'm feeling with the Joker movie aswell, Like, Okay, it's original,
it's something that we haven't explored inthis way in this way, right,
(44:14):
Yeah, like we know the character, but let's see it in a
different way. And going back toJoker, one thing that I'm really enjoying
is that in the trailer you seehim with his mom. He's taking care
of his mom, He's bathing hismom. Right, Clearly it is a
situation where she can't take care ofherself. But then at the same time,
(44:34):
he has a mental illness. That'syou see him writing about it.
And actually someone frees framed it andsaid, the problem with having a mental
illness is that people expect you tobehave like you don't have one. That's
deeps that's pretty powerful stuff. Andso the fact that he has to he
himself has a disability, Annie hasto take care of somebody in his life
(44:57):
who also has disabilities that we don'tknow out yet or I kind of I
could be completely off. I kindof took it is is this kind of
like a psycho situation where like there'san odd relationship with the mother, like
a controlling relationship with the mother.Like I kind of took it that way,
(45:19):
where maybe his mother has this holdon him, and that's also like
part of it. I took itas he's very attached to his mother because
because he needed more looking after growingup or as an adult because of his
illness. That he has a specialbond with his mother because she felt like
(45:40):
she had to take care of himlonger in life, and now that she's
sick, he has to take careof her and return the favor. And
when he when I'm expecting her todie. So when she dies, that's
what helps push him over the edge. Okay, that's how I took it.
So like they have a good relationship. Okay, I could be completely
that's that's maybe it's just no nono, I like neither. I mean
(46:02):
no no, right, Like neitherof us could be could be right,
or you could be right, orI could be right. That's the beauty
of it. This is just ateaser trailer, right, But like in
the trailer, they kind of showthat they have a good relationship, like
when he's bathing her and then likethrows water on her face and she's smiling,
and then they're dancing in front ofthe TV. See I took that
completely obvious. I did not takethat as a loving relationship. I tuck
(46:23):
it as like a things might bea little not not quite right, I
did. I did. I don'tknow. Well you are I'm a much
bigger Hitchcock fan than I am.Yes, and you really like Psycho?
Yeah, and I don't really likePsycho. I don't know. I took
it. I just took it aslike the way they were dancing didn't seem
(46:46):
like a cute like dancing. No, I didn't take it that way at
all. I took it as wholesometotally. Really, yeah, I didn't
take it that way at all.I took it as like thinks are not
quite right, like in what way, like something a way that you don't
want to talk about? Yeah?Really, yeah you. I don't think
(47:07):
it was saying that at all.I just that's how I took it.
And I could be completely wrong,and maybe my mind isn't just completely worse,
but like you are completely wrong.Okay, we'll find out. We
will find out. I'm hoping I'mright very much so. I don't want
to see anything like that or evenillusions. Well, I'm sorry to point
(47:28):
it on your head. Uh yeah, that's because I think there's two great
there's multiples, but there's two.There's two great joker quotes from two different
franchises, and there's one from TheKilling Joke where like all it I'm going
to butcher it, but it's umAll it takes is one bad day to
(47:52):
make the sanest man go mad.And then you have the Dark Night where
where the Joker says madness, asyou know, is like gravity. All
it takes is one little push,and those I feel like our sister quotes
where it just shows you it's alludingto the fact that that's how the Joker
(48:15):
fell one bad day. Now theJoker with walking Phoenix is showing a man
who's struggling. It's not just onebad day, right, he's struggling,
he's being pushed, but one badday incident could push someone who's near the
edge. And my money is onhis mother dying. Okay, that's my
(48:37):
money, okay. And I haveno idea how Zazie Beats is going to
work into it, but they're ata diner together. She is twenty seven
years old, he is quaking.Phoenix is forty five years old. Come
on, I love Zazzie Beats,but couldn't we found a more age appropriate
person if they are going to gothe love interest, Maybe they're just friends.
I don't know, or maybe it'sagain like I don't mean we saw
(49:00):
different trailers, and I mean weboth enjoyed the trailer and think it's going
the right direction. But I kindof felt like and maybe it's like the
like for him, he's he's notquite right. Yes I saw that.
Okay, I'm glad, but likemaybe this girl is nice to him and
(49:20):
he's misinterpreting you know what I'm saying, Like, well, that's quite very
possible, or you know, maybeso maybe like it's not like a relationship,
it's more of like he sees someonewho's kind to him. But maybe
and then maybe it won't like I'llbackfire in some way. I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, I'm interested inseeing that. Like I'm interested,
like I wonder, you know,if this movie will say anything hmm,
(49:45):
you know, yeah, if it'llsay hopefully, hopefully in this day and
age, you know, like becauseI feel like some people are a little
worried and you know, and honestly, they have they have a reason to
be worried about another movie painting peoplewho are who have a mental illness or
(50:07):
a mental disability, or you know, some sort who are not neurotypical with
a broad brush and a negative brush, where like somebody will see that and
go like, oh, well,I mean, if you have a mental
illness and your guess you're crazy,or if you're not neurotypical, or if
you're atypical, then it must becrazy or dangerous and psychotic. You know,
(50:28):
I'm able to see these movies andnot think that I'm able to do
that, but not everybody is,And so could that be detrimental to people
who are living in that in thatrealm of society and with disabilities like that
and with illnesses like that. Andso I'm hoping that they will find a
way to balance that in twenty nineteenwithout hurting the story and not treating it
(50:53):
with kid gloves. And but atthe same time, because we're living in
twenty nineteen, I wonder if thiswill have something to say about whether it's
socioeconomic status, racial status, urbanstatus, mental health in the United States
and how it's it's shunned or howlike you're just especially in the eighties,
(51:16):
oh my god, the early eighties, where you know, like if you
had anything that was atypical, thenyou were considered crazy and psychotic. And
maybe that's what pushes him all theedge because he's being ignored. Who knows.
I'm just wondering if it'll say somethingor if it's hopefully it will,
because I feel like those are themovies that definitely impact more instead of just
(51:36):
that, yeah, this guy wentcrazy and then he started murdering people,
right right, I think, likeeven from what you like, because we
free framed like the journal or whatever, and even like the quote that you
said, like was on there aboutlike mental health and how people expect you
not to act you know, acertain way or whatnot. I feel like
even in that self having that eventhere, I like it has to say
(52:00):
something. Yeah, I don't thinkthat it wouldn't just be this story.
Um. And yet at the sametime, like you said, I think
it's it's I mean, we're notjust talking about someone random, We're talking
about the joker, right, SoI think you have to allow some like
it's okay that he is going togo crazy because that's the story that we
(52:22):
want to see, and that's thejoke. He is psycho, right,
right, He's a psycho, butstill acknowledging like that not everyone will become
this way obviously, like not everybodywho has course psychosis are suffering. Some
of coosis, right will be violent, right, yeah, And so yes,
(52:42):
I'm hopeful hopefully they will take thosesteps to safeguard that or at least
not paint with a broad brush,right, um, and and maybe hey,
it'll say something like with what you'resaying, was Zazzi Beats, Like
Zazzi Beats is nice to him andin stereotypical male fashion, because she's nice.
It happens a lot as a female. Absolutely, Like you have a
(53:05):
million stories like that, and Iknow I have tons of other friends who
have a million stories just like it, where just because a woman is nice
to you, then all of asudden she owes you something or you think
it's it's something that it's not,and then when she rejects you, you
go off the deep end, youknow, right right, So, like
we could have a comment on howa mental illness is ignored. We could
(53:29):
have a comment on how toxic masculinity, you know, we could have so
many comments on this and where.And another argument like some people are making
is I don't want to feel sorryfor the joker, Like I don't want
to empathize with the joker and understandand everything like that, and I feel
like there's going to be some empathy. Yeah. I mean already in the
(53:51):
trailer, I've felt some empathy forhim. Yeah. But you can have
empathy for a character but still recognizeyes that they're making the wrong decisions.
Yeah, absolutely, and see thepath right, Okay, they should have
turned right, but they went left. I kind of liken it to Walter
White, where you empathize with WalterWhite and you understand and understand what he's
(54:16):
going through, but then you're justlike, oh, you're making a whole
bunch of wrong decisions, like youare becoming the villain. I don't feel
sorry for you. I understand whereyou're coming from, and I'm pseudo rooting
for you because you're the protagonist,but you are the villain here exactly.
And I think that's a fine line. I think that that's why I recommended
works so much in that way,is that you started off feeling bad and
(54:38):
then you slowly became like, no, he deserves everything that comes to him.
Yeah, But at the same time, you want to see that story
because, like you said, thisis what you want, this is what
you came for, and so itcan be done. Everything that we just
described can be done appropriately. Absolutelywill they who knows, don't know.
(55:00):
We don't know that it could failmiserably, It could be a could be
a terrible movie with great trailers.Just watch Suicide Squad, you know.
Um. Yeah, I hope thatthey don't show too much. I hope
that we get this teaser. Wehave this teaser trailer, and then we
get one more trailer and then that'sit like endgame, like endgame. Oh,
that's that's an extreme um. Maybea little bit more than that.
(55:22):
Um, but yeah, something inthat vein. So yeah, all right,
Well we talked along than we setout. Yeah, we said,
like as we were talking about thisepisode, like well, let's just talk
about the Joker trailer at the top, but then we'll just kind of transitioning
to eightieth anniversary Batman. No,it was more like nine percent Joker,
ten percent Batman. It's so true. It's true. As you could tell,
(55:45):
we are excited for this film.Um. So please check out our
backlog by going to the nerdparty dotcom. Ye write us a review if
you like what we do, andif you give us a five star review,
we'll mention you on the show.Write to us, let us know
what you think, give us someshow topics if you want us to talk
about anything in particular. We lovegetting feedback and we love getting letters from
(56:08):
you guys. Yeah, and wereally do appreciate those people who write us
regularly and contact us regularly. Yeah. And we have lots of other shows
you can check out on the networkas well. Absolutely so. Yeah,
we have so many. We havea Harry Potter show, we have multiple
Star Wars shows, multiple Star Trekshows, we got a Doctor Who show,
(56:29):
and so many other that I'm forgettingright now. But go to the
nerdparty dot com. There's something foreveryone. It really is great. And
speaking of Endgame, I cannot Icannot wait until we get to April twenty
fifth. Yes, we have tickets. We have tickets for AMC Dolby showing,
(56:49):
first showing Thursday night. It's gonnabe great. Yeah, we're excited.
We are excited. So thank youguys so much for listening. I
love you, I know it's gollyYes, marry me. I love you
and I like you. I loveyou and I like you. I love
that woman. I love her morethan sharks low Blood. I love you.
(57:17):
I don't h
Welcome to the nerd party. It'sgoing Yes, marry me. I love
you and I like you. Ilove you and I like you. I
love that woman. I love amore than sharks love bloody. Hello,
(00:32):
I'm tristener Adel and I'm the girl. And this is Nerd Nuptial, Episode
one hundred and twenty seven. Ifthis is your first time listening, we
are a married couple looking at lifethrough a nerdy lens. How are you
doing today? Well, it isa lazy Sunday, so I'm great.
It is a fantastically lazy sunday.We spend a good amount of it in
bed. Yeah, which makes areally good sunday. I think that's that's
(00:55):
how you spend Sunday. And wewent to the mall with the with the
kid with the kiddo, and uhit was we got to watch some great
British bake off or whatever it isthat's baking show. Yeah. You you
turned me onto that pretty hard,I did. Yeah, I won that
one. Although now you've like stolenmy show that I watch while like the
(01:17):
baby naps during the day. Youkeep doing this to me, I swear
like I always like try to findsomething that you don't want to watch so
that I can watch about myself,and you always end up like coming in
and watching it and then deciding like, no, to watch that without me.
I want to watch it. Well, yeah, I'm sorry, but
I just have such a great taste. As you tell our listeners often I
(01:40):
do. I do. I'm prettysure I've asked this question before to the
listeners, but I want to doit again just in case because you guys,
um, because this is a showabout being married, I want to
ask you, guys, what's ashow that you watch on your own?
Like, what's a show that youhave that is just yours? That because
a long time listeners know that wewatch everything together, almost everything, but
(02:05):
if you're out with your friends orout doing something, I have something that
I go to to watch and samewith you. Yeah, so we want
to know what you guys watch onyour own that you don't feel the name
and do you like having something that'sall your own or is it kind of
one of those things where you're like, well, I wish that my you
know, significant other would watch itwith me, like Star Trek, right,
(02:30):
but like, no, I haveto watch about myself or is it
sometimes like oh no, I reallydo enjoy watching something by myself and it's
only me. Yeah, let usknow. What you can do is you
can go to the nerdparty dot comslash contact, select Nerdnuptual from the dropdown
menu. Fail at the form itI'll send us an email. You can
also message us us on social mediaFacebook, Instagram, Twitter. You can
(02:51):
find us at join nerd Party onTwitter and all the other places you just
search the nerd Party. You canalso find me personally on Twitter at the
Insane Robin. Now today, assome of you know, this was last
week, but it's kind of likea long time celebration. Is the eightieth
anniversary of Batman, which is veryimportant to this nerd nuptial. Yeah,
(03:15):
it's very important to this marriage,to this household, and hopefully to this
two year old baby that we havesomeday someday because she has Batman pajamas,
she does, but she prefers herSpider Man one. Why did you have
to bring it up? Why didyou feel that she's her own person?
And that's okay, that's okay,that's well. You know, this is
(03:37):
the eightieth anniversary of Batman, andhe's just like, yeah, but Spiderman's
cool. No, I'm saying thatUll thinks that cool. She knows that
daddy loves Batman, she understands thatand mommy. But yes, yes,
I was gonna say, it's notjust It's not just me. I mean,
that's one of the reasons why Imarried you is because you're a hardcore
into Batman just like I am.But so, like, yes, there's
(04:00):
there's a there's a lot of eventsgoing on. Like DC Streaming had an
event where you could watch every singlething that Batman was in for free on
one day. I think it waslike March twenty ninth they did that.
It would be very difficult to getthat all in one day. I don't
think that was the goal, butyou had access to it. Okay,
(04:21):
let's follow one day and then likethere's there's anniversary editions of the comics coming
out, and um and what wasreally great and what I and you and
hopefully a big chunk of the worldit was excited about was the first trailer
for Joker. Yeah movie, Yescame out. It dropped. I mean,
(04:43):
we've been excited about this since theybasically like just did a little teas
tester. It was like a testeven even yeah, it was like it
was it was a camera test,it was a costume test. But actually
you and I were even excited aboutthis well before. Oh yeah they had
any kind of image just when theywere talking about it, because they were
like, there was a rumor thatScorsese was going to be involved and that
(05:05):
Walking Phoenix was going to be Joker, and so we're like, uh,
yes, yeah, actually no,Originally it was like Leonardo Caprio or something
was going to be Joker and Scorsesewas involved, but that was just a
rumor and it turned out to beWalking Phoenix and it was going to be
inspired by early Scorsese work, rightright, which makes both of us tingle
(05:27):
in all the right places. It'stoo much information. Yeah, so um,
every time I basically walk away fromthe television, Tristan is watching this
trailer, Like true, how manytimes do you think you've watched whenever?
Like you go to the kitchen,get a snack, Yeah, you go
and wash your hands, or yougo check on the baby. I'm like,
(05:49):
oh, oh, she's gone,okay too, I swear every time,
like I can really, I guess. So, if you haven't seen
it yet, why are you whyare you listening to this podcast, but
pause for a second. Take thetwo minutes. Yeah, watch the trailer
waiting. It's it's it's amazing,it's so I think it basically from our
(06:12):
perspective, it is the right tonethat we were hoping like. It maintained
the tone that we were hopefully expecting. Yes, yes, yes, because
what can you really expect except forwhat you're told or what you you imagine,
you know exactly, But I meanthe fact that it's a gritty um,
you know, it does feel likeearly scores asy whether or they're going
(06:35):
for And it looks like a smallerfilm. Yes, it like there was
big explosions. You didn't see anyblue pillar in the sky of internet.
Oh my gosh, no CGI whatsoever? Right, Um? Definitely a drama,
yes, a psychological threat, right, yeah, something revolving around criminality.
Yeah. Yeah, it's exactly whatit should be. Yeah, all
(06:58):
about the mind of this villain.And it's the exact opposite And I'm not
saying this as a criticism. It'sthe exact opposite of Suicide Squad. It's
the exact opposite of Jared Leto's Jokerin every way. And again I'm not
saying that as a criticism, right, it's just an interpretation it is and
it takes place in nineteen eighty one, and um, which is interesting if
(07:23):
you think about the timeline because youhave a young Bruce, Like it's been
reported that like in the trailer youactually see a young Bruce Wayne. Yeah,
isn't he the kid? He's thekid through the through the gate that
joker, Arthur Fleeke I think ishis name, is for literally forcing a
smile on Bruce's face, Like hetakes his fingers, his thumbs and is
(07:46):
stretching his skin, which seems invasive. And so that makes you wonder like,
oh, okay, so is thisis like they were outside maybe Bruce
was at a cemetery. That's whereeverybody's mind is going, Like makes sense.
He's visiting Martha and Thomas Wayne's gravesor something like that, right,
And then it makes you wonder,like you know, like was I'm getting
(08:09):
ahead of myself, but it umlike, how do you how do you
feel about that? How do youfeel about a young Bruce Wayne being in
this in this story? Is itforcing too much? End do you think
is it necessary? I don't thinkthat like any Batman at all would necessarily
be necessary for this story. Butbecause he does, he is you know
(08:35):
the counterpart too, joker. Ithink that you have to like hint at
it, And if you're going tohint at it, then I'd rather it
be that way than like, yeah, Batman exactly, or even like a
you know, an older Bruce Waynewho's you know, making himself into Batman
(08:56):
at the moment, Like, Ithink I'd rather it be this then I
don't know, I get and seehim. Yeah, I think I don't
even think I needed that. It'sfine if they do do that. Yeah,
yeah, I think, yes,I would if if a young Bruce
Wayne was not in it or evenyeah, like if a young Bruce Wayne
(09:18):
wasn't even born yet or not evenin it yet or not even in it,
I would have been fine. It'sit's you know, it's a teaser
trailer, so like who knows,like that might be all that there is.
It's just like a walk on roll. Maybe that's all that there is.
Who knows. But I would havebeen fine without it. But I'm
one percent okay with it. Somepeople are kind of like like do we
(09:39):
really need that? Like are theytrying to be Batman adjacent, you know,
like are they trying to force itin there? But then like I
heard one person say like, wellare they only are they shoehorning Bruce in
there just to make it a Gothamstory? And then some people are like
does it even need to be aGotham story? I don't understand that our
(10:00):
um, because if it wasn't aGotham story, then you have a man
who goes insane and start dressing upas a clown in an urban setting.
No Joker, is he exists inGotham? Yeah, so well, you
(10:20):
know, I think the argument isjust like does it have to be Joker?
Like, oh, like does it? Which I don't understand that argument.
It's just like, this is thestory they want to tell about Joker,
right, And so that seems oddto me. I think it's an
odd argument because we're so used toseeing people flying around in capes and big
explosions and people like as human crocodilesrunning around in the sewers and everything like
(10:43):
that. Right. Um. Ithink that's why people are just like,
oh, well, just they shouldhave just made it a psychological thriller of
a of a guy going insane orsomething like Yeah, but I think that,
like the Dark Knight is kind ofproof that you know, a lot
of us, including this internuptual,really appreciates a Gotham grounded in reality,
(11:05):
and clearly they are trying to likego for that audience that likes that grounded
because that's I mean, honestly,that's a huge reason why I like Batman.
Like, even though he's still asuperhero, personally, I feel like
he's more grounded in reality than likea Superman or even like absolutely you know,
(11:26):
the Avengers or something like that.I mean not talking, do you
see completely, But I feel likethat's the reason why I like Batman well,
and that's the beauty of it isbecause as everybody knows that Batman has
no superpowers. Whose superpowers is hisintellect and his detective mind and wealth and
his wealth in his gadgets, right, And so that's why, like some
(11:48):
people including myself, are talking aboutone big reason why Justice League didn't do
well, it's because we've been conditionedfor so long that these DC characters exist
in a separate universe to themselves cinematically, right, Like, obviously there's the
Justice League comics and the universe ofthe comics where everybody exists in the same
(12:11):
universe, yeah, obviously, butcinematically you have the Superman franchise, you
have the Batman franchise, and evenoutside of that, like even within the
DCU, like when you have thatstandalone film of Wonder Woman, she feels
like she's alone. Yeah, it'skind of true. It's like it's not
like they're talking about like, oh, well, you know, Batman's busy
(12:35):
right now, so that's why WonderWoman's working by yourself. You know.
It's yes, it's you know,you know what I'm saying. But like
I know, it's one of thosethings where like it's almost like even though
they exist in the same world,they don't acknowledge to other people unless they
are coming all together for the JusticeLeague or like just at the end of
the movie, like, hey,just do you remember, like there are
(12:56):
other people? And when you lookat the Avengers and the interconnected universe that
Marvel has that they've established cinematically,right, everything is connected, everything is
there, everything is self right,and I almost feel like they kind of
like, I don't know, Ikind of accepted a little bit more in
that universe just because they've almost kindof established like, well, this issue
(13:18):
isn't Avengers worthy, Like okay,well, Aunt Man can handle this by
himself, and Captain American can handlethis, but we'll maybe pull in this
character to help him. Whereas whenit comes to like an Avengers movie,
you know, like the end ofthe world is coming because you need all
of them, Whereas with the JusticeLeague, I mean, yes, okay,
(13:41):
here's the thing though, like wejust watched Aquaman for the first time,
and yes, we are very lateto the party, but we purposely
relate to the party because we dislikeJustice League that much so and we just
were not huge like I don't knowfans of Aquaman, like just from Jason
Momot and just in general, likeAquaman to me was always like the lamest
(14:05):
of course, I mean that's justkind of like common knowledge, right,
he was like the lamest of theJustice League. Yes, so it's the
Hawkeye of Yeah, so we watchedit. We watched it. And here's
where again, like the DC,you does it poorly, is that technically
(14:28):
it was going to be the endof everything as well in in an Aquaman
like, yeah, they were gonnawage war, but on the Superman didn't
come and help him or that's whythey made Aquaman Superman, right exactly.
It was like so much it waslike all noise anyway. But it's like
(14:50):
they couldn't like they didn't do agood job of being like, well,
this is only an Aquaman issue.Yeah, you know, yeah, it's
just yeah, I just I loveI miss smaller stories. Yeah, and
I think that's why we're gravitating towardsJoker. Yes, and we gravitate towards
Beman Begins, Dark Knight and DarkKnight Rises because they're smaller stories. They
(15:11):
either involve just just take care ofGotham. Yeah, we yeah, we've
talked about this so many times before. But Beaman Begins was like, originally
it was just the narrows, andthen it was just like, oh,
the waterman's of the city are gonnaexplode, right, And then you have
Dark Night where it was like thecity was not going to explode. It
was just two boatloads of people.And then on the third one, that's
(15:35):
when it was just like, okay, let's up the ante, right,
the city is going to be destroyed. But that's that's it. Like,
and if you actually think about likehow many actual explosions happened Yeah, it
wasn't. It's not like we havethese like CGI epic like battles where you're
wizard battles. Yeah, it's notlike that. So yes, having something
(15:58):
small where we just deal with theinside of Joker's mind sounds fantastic. And
I think this is a sign.This is the first correct me if I'm
wrong. This is the first DCsuperhero super Okay, d C Comics,
which I know is redundant um,but this is the first DC Comics movie
(16:22):
separate from the dc EU since theDark Knight Rises. I think that's right,
because after their Dark Knight Rises,you had you had Man of Steel,
and then that was the beginning ofthe DCU. Yeah, you know
this the Snyder verse, right,Steel and then um, Batman v.
Superman, then Wonder Woman, thenJustice League. Oh there's suicide squads in
(16:45):
there, okay, and then JusticeLeague and then um, this is completely
separate, completely, one hundred percentseparate. This is its own universe.
It doesn't exist within the Burton universe, not the Snyder universe, not anything
else. This is its own,so creating their own thing, and they're
starting with Joker, not just startingthat's just it. That's just it.
(17:06):
We're just like, I'm gonna makea Joker. This is the movie,
Yes, yes, exactly, thisis the movie. And that is so
beautiful. Honestly, I'm surprised thatthey gave money for that they gave I
think it's fifty million, and whatI cannot believe. We live in an
age where fifty million is like,oh here you go. Yeah, and
(17:27):
its little film, and it likethe beauty of the film, Like of
the trailer of Joker. It lookssmall, yeah, and I don't want
to say cheap, but it looksit doesn't look like it cost three hundred
million dollars, right, it lookslike it looks like it costs that much.
And it's just crazy because like that'show much. Like big budget movies
(17:48):
used to cost fifty millions, right, and now we're just like I have
fifty million whatever, right right?Yeah. I think the tone is right.
I think like everything that I'm seeinglooks right to me. The cinematography,
yeah, the color palette, yes, yes, the browns yes,
the deep deep purples oh yeah,dark green, it's all yes, yeah,
(18:15):
the sunset you know, like yeah, everything everything. Now. I
know that a lot of people aregoing to maybe say like, do we
really need an origin story for theJoker? Yes, a lot of people
are bringing that up. Um,how do you feel about that? I
say, bring it on. I'vealways been intrigued by origin stories. I
(18:37):
think I'm I don't fault people fornot specifically wanting an origin story for the
Joker because like the greatness that isthe Joker is um kind of like the
More from Titus, you know,like he is, he's crazy and no
(19:00):
one knows his motivations. He justdoes evil things. It's very Shakespearian and
so literally Shakespearece like just to seewhat happens. Yeah, and that's and
I think that's the beauty of theJoker is that he's crazy and he's a
wild card. You have no ideawhat he's thinking or what he's going to
do next. Well, and thatalso influences how Batman treats him, because
if you can kind of get tothe root of why someone does something,
(19:23):
then can't you possibly prevent it rightor correct it or corrected right well what
they're going to do next when youcan figure out their motivations. And so
I totally get that, and Ifeel the same way to an extent because
I feel like this kind of thinkingwas amplified in two thousand and eight definitely.
(19:44):
Well, Like, yeah, whenyou have the joker saying like I'm
this way because of this and I'mthis way, there was no true story.
It all was just made up,and like the second time he tells
that story, you're like, oh, okay, yes, no, it's
not because of his past or anythingthat's happened to him. It is because
(20:06):
he doesn't care and he just wantsto see as you know, as as
Alfred said, the world burn,Yeah, exactly. And the first time
we saw it together, I rememberthinking, like I remember when he says,
like, do you want to knowhow I got these scars? I
remember thinking, ah, we don'tneed to know, right, we don't
need to know. They don't explainit, don't explain it. And then
(20:29):
he, like you said that hedoes that second time. I was just
like, Okay, that's cool,but it's weird of I always thought that
was. Looking back, I'm justlike, why did I think that?
Like, why was I so againstfiguring out where he came from when we've
seen his origins so many times before, right? I think Nolan created a
(20:49):
version of that character that was meticulouslydrawn out to the point of obfuscation where
it was appetizing and you didn't wantto know about him because of like what
um you know, like Gary Oldmansaid, he's just like there's nothing in
his pocket but knives and lent allhis closer custom custom You know that he's
(21:11):
an enigma. You have no ideawhat's going on. It take it's away
that identity that we think we canfigure out. But Joaquin Phoenix's Joker,
Todd phillips Joker is not Heath Ledger'sJoker, right, It's not Nolan's Joker.
It's a different Joker. It's it'sit's that is that is that origin
story for that Joker, right right? And that's why I'm okay with it,
(21:32):
because we got an origin story withthe first cinematic version of Joker.
We got an origin story, likefor like a third of the film,
he's Jack Napier right right, right. We see him thrown in the vat
of chemicals at as Chemicals Boom Originstory nineteen eighty nine. There's thirty years
ago, yeah, yeah, andthen everyone was okay with authentic everything.
(21:53):
Yeah. And also even like somany people, I don't understand this because
I'm not going to start ranting,but are you sure? I am sure.
So many people say whenever Joker comesup in conversation, people say,
oh, I wish Mark Hamil's Jokergot more love, do you? Because
every single Joker conversation I've had orseen, he's brought up as people saying
(22:15):
he's the best, and he deservesit, he deserves the attention. Um.
But I feel like a lot ofpeople say it just to make themselves
feel cool because they're choosing the animatedversion as their favorite version, which is
fine if it is, but Ifeel like people use it as a card
to say like, I'm cooler thanyou because I'm doing something that's that's a
little indie like they feel it's it'slike they're exactly That's what I'm saying.
(22:38):
Is ridiculous about it is that everybodythinks that because it's true Mark Hamil's Joker,
like it was a genius interpretation.We've seen his origin story Mark Hamil's
Joker. We've seen multiple origin storiesof Mark Hamill's Joker, which in itself
is a part of the character becausewe saw we saw a pre Joker Mark
(23:00):
Hamill in mask of the Phantasm,and we also saw a different type of
interpretation in the Killing Joke, whichwas animated and voiced by Mark Camill.
And so we've seen in the comicbooks they have tons like they've had multiple
origin stories over the years, andeven just recently a couple of years ago,
when they rebooted it the comic bookUniverse once again after the New fifty
(23:25):
two. Um, they straight upsaid there are three Jokers. Oh really
yeah, all with different backstories thatexists in the universe, in that one
universe, so like over time,like kind of like no, not really,
it was it was it was weird. I didn't really dig on that,
like all within Gotham. Three Jokersand Gotham. Yeah, it was
(23:48):
weird. Okay, Um, Ididn't really like that. Okay, you'll
have to explain that to me later. I don't play understand it myself.
Yeah, so, like I couldbe getting something wrong, but I remember
reading that issue going what But that'sthe thing is that, like it's we
have been inundated by this. Sofor people to say, like I don't
want an origin story, that's fine, but don't deny that there are so
(24:12):
many, right, this is notsomething new this is not novel right right.
For me, I sometimes get alittle fatigued by origin stories. I
think, um, just because likehow many times do I have to like
see you know, Bruce Wayne's parentsdie, Yeah, exactly, Like I
(24:33):
don't need that. Like that wasone of my biggest critiques of that.
Maybe Superman was like I don't needthat, Like, let's move on,
Like I know who Batman is,I know who Uncle Ben's exactly. But
with the Joker, because even thoughit's he's super popular villain, I don't
like, it's just interesting to seethat backstory explored because it's a villain,
(24:59):
I think, um, and Idon't think we've seen it probably to the
point of exhaustion. So for me, I'm I'm super excited. And also
to see a different interpretation. Um. So, like I do understand the
idea of people saying like, ohI don't because you know, as of
right now, my favorite Joker interpretationfor sure would be, um, you
(25:25):
know the Dark Night he led Yeah, Heath Ledger version where we don't know
so much that it like ruins itright, Like I get that, But
at the same time, I lovethe Joker character so much and the crazy
that is that character that I'm like, let's see a different interpretation, let's
why not exactly, why not havemore of a good thing? And that's
(25:51):
what I really don't understand is thatpeople feel like it's going to ruin something
for them if they know more aboutthe Joker. You just say, I
don't like that version. Yeah,that's the thing. It's just a version.
Like when I go and watch TheDark Night again for the twenty fifth
time, I'm not gonna like,after watching Waking Phoenix's Joker, I'm not
gonna be thinking to myself, Oh, man, if only Heath Ledger's Joker
(26:15):
could have made it work with ZazieBeats. No, it's not going to
work that way, right, it'sa different movie. It's a different exactly.
Like I didn't particularly like I thinkit was the Mask's Phantasm's version.
Was it, Yeah, well theydidn't really go too much into it.
Or was it which A one wasthe where like he had a wife and
oh it was the killing joke.Okay, I didn't really like that now
(26:38):
interpretation. I don't love his backstory, Like I was just like, like,
I didn't really like it. MI didn't like the Red Hood.
I think that's what he's called thered Hood storyline, where's yeah yeah,
yeah, yeah yeah, like hehad to get money, right, is
it? Yeah? I didn't likethat, Um, but that doesn't mean
that like every time I see theJoker, I'm like, oh, well
(26:59):
he messed up there. Yeah yeah, like oh man, it's too bad
his wife died or right, likecouldn't make it as a real comedian.
You know, like no one's thinkingthat, So you're really just complaining to
be complaining. But whatever you do, you or you could just not see
it right. And And I'm notsaying that to be snyde. I really
(27:22):
am not. I am not sayingthat to be like well fine, Like
like whenever I write a bad reviewfor a TV show on the nerdputty dot
Com, like there's some mouth breatherwho comes to me and says, like,
well, then don't watch it ifyou don't like it. I'm like,
I watched the first episode. I'mreviewing the first episode. You're like
that kind of thing. I'm notdoing that. Like, if you are
so hardcore against knowing any kind oforigin story, yeah, then don't go
(27:47):
see it. And like that's withinyour power not to go see it again.
I'm not trying to be snyde.I'm not trying to be sassy.
I'm just I'm just saying like,like seriously, like Okay, it's cool,
right, Like there's you still havethe DCU, you know, like
you still have another suicide squad comingout, um, and other things,
yeah, other things. Yeah.No. I I think it's one of
(28:12):
those things where it's your choice,right and in anything like, you always
have the choice to whether you wantto explore that or not. Now here's
the thing though, Um, justbecause we're talking about continuity and versioning and
everything like that, I guess itcould potentially be possible for Walking Phoenix Joker
to come up again. Because MattReeves's trilogy of Batman movies that's that's going
(28:37):
to be shooting soon. There's arumor that it's going to take place in
the nineties. So if they startthis process in the eighties with Joker,
then he could potentially, like maybedepending on how well it goes exactly,
it could become the Joker in thoseupcomings. Now you could be an older
Joker, kind of like a JackNicholson Joker, right, Um, in
that in that trilogy that's interesting.Yeah, huh, I wonder, like,
(29:03):
yeah, I wonder about that.I'm okay if they don't do that,
because I like the idea of somethingbeing temporary. I like the idea
of just a one off like thisis that story, Let's do that,
And I want DC to do thatmore like the old days. Yeah,
yeah, I get that, andI think that sometimes it would be refreshing
in this way that like it doesn'tnecessarily mean that you have to like continue
(29:26):
on in the franchise, like okay, this was the interpretation of walking Phoenix
as a joker, end of storyand now moving on moving. Yeah,
I don't see Phoenix as being someonewho would like, Okay, I'll sign
a seven picture deal. No,he doesn't feel like that. But who
knows. Yeah they when they backup a dump truck of money. Yeah,
(29:49):
I don't know, to your frontdoor. You're on the human Yeah
exactly. Yeah. So in MattReeves's Matt Reeves, the director of the
rebooted plenty of the Apes franchise.Um, he's saying all the right things,
that's really he really is. He'ssaying all the right things about like
going back to the detective roots.That's what we like and like really focusing
(30:12):
on that about about Batman being adetective about figuring things out. And also,
um, I think they said thatthey want a younger Batman okay,
which is interesting, Yeah, becausewe got one with Christian Bale and Batman
Begins. Um, so it's notlike it's the first time that it's ever
(30:33):
happened. How young, Yeah,I don't know that. That also concerns
me, Like how young are wetalking? I don't know. Well,
I mean because I mean in thecomics. Oh, it's there's so many
different versions of everything like that,so depends on what you read. Like
the lore is that he's older thancollege aged, okay, which is still
young, like if you want togo twenty two yeah, um, and
(30:56):
Christian Bale was not twenty two up, but we saw him as a younger
person, right, you know,like when he got kicked out of college
and everything like that. Um,but it's a it makes you wanted because
I don't I don't want another BatmanBegins. I get it. I would
like to just go like he's fine, it would be one hundred percent okay
(31:19):
if he was young and in thenineties and everything like that. But I
liked what Batman eighty nine did whereit's just boom. Yeah, Batman is
Batman and this was the first cinematicBatman and it was boom. No origin
story there you go. Well,I mean they got the flashbacks, right,
but he was an established Batman.Um. I mean he proved himself
(31:42):
and he was still mysterious to Gotham. Sure, but it wasn't like he
was testing out a suit. Hewasn't trying to he wasn't digging out his
cave, right, Um. AndI loved Batman Begins for that, right,
but it's we've seen it right,Yeah, to be fifteen years Yeah,
when like by the time it comesout Batman Begins, it's gonna be
(32:04):
fifteen years ago. Oh my gosh, I feel old. That's insane,
right yeah, And so we're talkingabout like fifteen years is too soon.
Guys waited a good solid two decadesbefore you get another origin. That's so
funny. Yeah, No, Imean again, like I think I don't
(32:27):
know, Like, okay, Soquestions, since it's the eightieth anniversary of
of Batman being Batman, Um,when did you first fall in love with
Batman? When did this love affairstart? For you, Tristan. My
uh, my first um was okay, I was Batman for Halloween? But
(32:50):
why were four times in a row? But why I'm trying to I'm trying
to think back, because yeah,I think I was five, okay when
I really fell in love with Batman. I was it was it was Michael
Keaton's Batman. Really yeah. Iwas born in eighty six and m Batman
(33:12):
eighty nine came out in eighty nine. And now obviously I was too young
to watch it then or to experienceit, but my dad showed it to
me at a young age. YeahI was, Yeah, I just I
was super I have very early memorieswatching that. We fast forward parts of
Winning the Poo today for Ripley,so not on the same track. Well,
(33:37):
no, this was fast forwarded twoNo Batman. Yeah, Batman eighty
nine was fast forwarded for me.A great deal, A great deal.
But I was I was super youngwhen it came out, and so like
it was that movie. I thinkit was probably when I probably kicked into
high gear when Batman Returns came out, which I was not allowed to see.
(33:58):
Okay, I wasn't allowed to seeBatman Returns, but I was allowed
to see Batman okay, And Iremember watching the Adam West TV show with
my grandma and grandpa but not reallythinking anything of it. Yeah, well
it's a very different Batman. Yeah. I was just like but even as
a child, I didn't really digit. I was just kind of like,
oh, this scoofy is fun,it's colorful, whatever. But when
(34:22):
I saw Michael Keaton's Batman, Iwas like, okay, wow, like
this this is my Batman. Okay. And like when Batman Returns came out,
they started, you know, theywere promoting it heavily. There was
a lot of toys, there wasa lot of tie and stuff, you
know, Taco Bell, McDonald's allhad that kind of advertising, and so
that kind of swept me in.And then I was like whoo, whoa,
(34:43):
what's going on here? And Dad'slike, oh, well, this
is the sequel to the Jack Nicholsonone. Let's watch that. And so
yeah, I think that's when,yes, when Batman Returns came out,
okay, like a couple of yearsafter eight minutes, so early nineties.
So yeah, so I was likefive or six, Yeah, okay,
all right, and that was thatwas the who you know, like and
and then like that's at the sametime, that's when, um, the
(35:06):
animated series came out. Okay,for for me, the animated series,
I was going to ask you,was that for you? Yeah? For
me, the animated series was whenI started like King Batman and what about
it, like kind of uh,the darker tone. Um, the female
villains, Oh yeah, I thoughtthey were cool. Yeah, yeah,
(35:27):
exactly. Um. I just thoughthe was like a really neat and just
brooding and mysterious, and so Ireally liked that. I really liked the
animated series a lot, like Ialways tried to catch it. Um.
I'm a little embarrassed to say that. I also I was young. Don't
judge me too harshly. Um,I when I didn't watch any of them,
(35:51):
Michael Keaton, I didn't watch anyof the Tim Burton ones, Like
I think it was too scary atthe time, right, Um, But
we did watch Batman in Robin andit had such a bad movie. But
I really liked it at the timewhen I was a kid. I know
this, No, I did watchit and I liked it at the time.
(36:13):
I don't know, I don't know, like I like, I didn't,
I did like it. I willadmit I really didn't like it,
and um, then obviously, likeafter that, I realized it was terrible.
But well, that's the story ofso many childs. Well, yeah,
of course, I just liked theidea of Batman, right, and
(36:37):
I can see it, like continued, I didn't see any of the other
ones. Um, but then forsure the solidification would be you know,
the Dark Knight trilogy. Yeah,maybe you know, begins everything like that.
Yeah. When when Batman Forever cameout, like obviously, because it
was directed by Schumacher, it wasa very different film from Batman and Batman
(36:58):
Returns. But I never even thoughI wasn't allowed to watch Batman Returns.
Once they actually watched it, Iwas like, oh, this is garbage.
Like I don't, I don't,I still don't like it. Like
I'll watch it sometimes just because it'sKeaton's Batman and I love Keaton's Batman and
Michelle Peiffer's amazing, but oh,Danny de Vito and just blah blah blah
blah blah. But when Batman Forevercame out, I kind of reconnected with
(37:20):
it. I was just like,oh, this is cool. This is
nothing like Batman. Eighty nine.But that's okay because to me it was
it wasn't the same Batman, eventhough it's technically supposed to be, right,
I still I think of it asBurton and Schumacher. Yeah, it's
easy to see it, like,Okay, they're different. Yeah, And
so I love I still do.I still love Val Kilmer as Batman.
(37:43):
I really do. Judge me allyou want, I don't care. I
love Val Kilmer as Batman. Ithought it was great. I thought Chris
o'donna was fine and and um,oh my gosh, I love Nicole Kidman
who that hit me at the rightage, And um yeah, I just
like, to this day, Ithink Batman Forever is a good movie.
It's goofy, it's hokey. Yeah, it's over the top, it's it's
(38:04):
neon. But it's horrible. Ijust it is garbage. I couldn't.
I could not get behind that itwas okay. So I think what it
was was like it was again atthe rate age that I was like allowed
to watch that one because of thetiming. I think that I came out
and I remember my brother being reallyscared for some reason, and I think
(38:29):
I know, um, but Ithink it was maybe I just felt cool
because I wasn't scared of it.Yeah, closed my eyes once, guys,
So yeah, I'm pretty hardcore.Also was four years older, so
again not so cool. But Ithink it was just the idea of like,
(38:50):
Okay, there's a bad cave andlike just the things I had seen
in the animated like it was justlike again, if you think about it,
though, I don't think I reallyhad seen that many superhero films at
that point, to be honest withyou, well, not a lot came
out by then, right at theSuperman films, and I kind of think
that was kind of the deal,was like, oh, this was one
of the first like live action onesI'd actually been able to see. And
(39:15):
the animated series is directly influenced bythe first by the Michael Keaton nineteen eighty
nine, so much that the themesong is the same. Yeah yeah,
yeah, And uh, what's reallyinteresting is that, like Kevin Conroy was
the first actor to have a dualpersonality and dual voice of Batman, because
(39:35):
like in Batman eighty nine, MichaelKeaton just kind of just kind of whispers,
He's like jokers, you know,like that kind of thing. So
he's not really changing his voice isthis whispering, right, But Kevin Conroy
like in the first episode, it'sjust like like when he saw as Batman,
he's just like it's all graveling.He's like, yes, Alfred,
let it come over here, likeplease bring me some tea. And then
he like he picks up the phone. He's like, hey, how's it
going. I'm Bruce Wayne, youknow, Like that's right, that's him.
(39:59):
Yeah, I was his decision.Now everybody does that exactly. They
have a Batman voice and a BruceWayne voice and like it's just crazy.
George Cleaney did not. Oh mygosh, you're right, you're right.
He was just George Cleaney, let'sbe honest. Like even Val Kilmer kind
of like took it on the lowkey like he was just like he changed
(40:21):
his voice just a little bit withGeorge, just George clear. The first
time you see him and he popsin, he's like, hi, Freeze,
I'm Batman. You're like, no, you're not. No, you're
not George. No, you're notYou're picking up a paycheck. Oh,
I'm so embarrassed that that was oneof my Yeah, that's one of the
(40:42):
things that I did like it though, I know to this day, like
not that long ago, we dida marathon and we're gonna do it again
because they're coming out in four KJust so you know, f y,
I put on the calendar the originalBatman films A yeah, are coming out
in four key either this spring orsummer, most likely summer. And um,
I've already bought them, pre orderedthem and uh it's uh what was
(41:08):
I saying just telling everyone that we'rewatching them, just telling no, like
no, like when we we wentback and rewatched them. Um, I
was like, Okay, we gotto be a hardcore about this. Yeah,
we can't. We're not gonna skipanything. We have to go through.
We gotta go through them. Westarted with Batman and then ended with
Dark Knight Rises and with like Returnsand Forever and bat and Robin in there.
(41:31):
And while you're watching Batman Robin,it's one of those movies where you're
just like, oh man, thisis crazy. It's entertaining though, because
it is. It's like a funwatch, like late at night, And
I'm pretty sure we always end updoing that one late at night and just
kind of making fun of it thewhole time. So adian the anniversary,
(41:54):
what did you think of Batman Beginswhen it first came out, like when
you first saw the trailer or whenChristian Bale was announced, you know,
like were you tapped in by then? I don't think I necessarily was,
honestly, like I was excited togo and see it, but I don't
think it really like solidified one hundredpercent until the Dark Night, and then
(42:17):
I was just like one hundred percentin. I was wide eyed, like
I really into yes when because Iwas. It came out in two thousand
and five, and I think thetrailer came out in two thousand and four.
I could be wrong, but Iremember downloading the trailer online and that
was new, Like that was newfor me, Okay, downloading a trailer
(42:40):
online, Like it wasn't It wasn'tlike one of the first to do it,
but like it was still novel enoughthat it was interesting. And I
remember waiting forever because back then youcould choose if you could download in an
ST seven twenty or ten eight,And I waited like three hours to download
the ten eighty version just so Icould get in pristine quality. I didn't
even have a tenaighty monitor. Um, and so I remember watching it and
(43:07):
I didn't really know too much aboutChris Nolan, you know, at that
time he did and this was intwo thousand and five. This was in
two thousand and five or like twothousand and four when the trailer came out,
I can't remember, but like atthat time he did Insomnia. He
did a Memento and I really likeMemento, but I didn't like Insomnia.
So it was just kind of like, Okay, I don't like I didn't
(43:28):
it wasn't worshiped as he is today, right. Um. But that that
opening shot of Christian Bale walking throughthe mountains, not wearing a suit,
just just up in rags. Yeah, just that got me right there.
I was just like, this isgoing to be different, This is going
to be good, this is goingto be a movie. Yeah. I
(43:50):
think that that was one impression Ihad from Batman. Beagins too, was
like, Okay, this is nottypical, Like they're going in a different
direction and they're telling a different story. I feel like that's kind of where
I'm feeling with the Joker movie aswell, Like, Okay, it's original,
it's something that we haven't explored inthis way in this way, right,
(44:14):
Yeah, like we know the character, but let's see it in a
different way. And going back toJoker, one thing that I'm really enjoying
is that in the trailer you seehim with his mom. He's taking care
of his mom, He's bathing hismom. Right, Clearly it is a
situation where she can't take care ofherself. But then at the same time,
(44:34):
he has a mental illness. That'syou see him writing about it.
And actually someone frees framed it andsaid, the problem with having a mental
illness is that people expect you tobehave like you don't have one. That's
deeps that's pretty powerful stuff. Andso the fact that he has to he
himself has a disability, Annie hasto take care of somebody in his life
(44:57):
who also has disabilities that we don'tknow out yet or I kind of I
could be completely off. I kindof took it is is this kind of
like a psycho situation where like there'san odd relationship with the mother, like
a controlling relationship with the mother.Like I kind of took it that way,
(45:19):
where maybe his mother has this holdon him, and that's also like
part of it. I took itas he's very attached to his mother because
because he needed more looking after growingup or as an adult because of his
illness. That he has a specialbond with his mother because she felt like
(45:40):
she had to take care of himlonger in life, and now that she's
sick, he has to take careof her and return the favor. And
when he when I'm expecting her todie. So when she dies, that's
what helps push him over the edge. Okay, that's how I took it.
So like they have a good relationship. Okay, I could be completely
that's that's maybe it's just no nono, I like neither. I mean
(46:02):
no no, right, Like neitherof us could be could be right,
or you could be right, orI could be right. That's the beauty
of it. This is just ateaser trailer, right, But like in
the trailer, they kind of showthat they have a good relationship, like
when he's bathing her and then likethrows water on her face and she's smiling,
and then they're dancing in front ofthe TV. See I took that
completely obvious. I did not takethat as a loving relationship. I tuck
(46:23):
it as like a things might bea little not not quite right, I
did. I did. I don'tknow. Well you are I'm a much
bigger Hitchcock fan than I am.Yes, and you really like Psycho?
Yeah, and I don't really likePsycho. I don't know. I took
it. I just took it aslike the way they were dancing didn't seem
(46:46):
like a cute like dancing. No, I didn't take it that way at
all. I took it as wholesometotally. Really, yeah, I didn't
take it that way at all.I took it as like thinks are not
quite right, like in what way, like something a way that you don't
want to talk about? Yeah?Really, yeah you. I don't think
(47:07):
it was saying that at all.I just that's how I took it.
And I could be completely wrong,and maybe my mind isn't just completely worse,
but like you are completely wrong.Okay, we'll find out. We
will find out. I'm hoping I'mright very much so. I don't want
to see anything like that or evenillusions. Well, I'm sorry to point
(47:28):
it on your head. Uh yeah, that's because I think there's two great
there's multiples, but there's two.There's two great joker quotes from two different
franchises, and there's one from TheKilling Joke where like all it I'm going
to butcher it, but it's umAll it takes is one bad day to
(47:52):
make the sanest man go mad.And then you have the Dark Night where
where the Joker says madness, asyou know, is like gravity. All
it takes is one little push,and those I feel like our sister quotes
where it just shows you it's alludingto the fact that that's how the Joker
(48:15):
fell one bad day. Now theJoker with walking Phoenix is showing a man
who's struggling. It's not just onebad day, right, he's struggling,
he's being pushed, but one badday incident could push someone who's near the
edge. And my money is onhis mother dying. Okay, that's my
(48:37):
money, okay. And I haveno idea how Zazie Beats is going to
work into it, but they're ata diner together. She is twenty seven
years old, he is quaking.Phoenix is forty five years old. Come
on, I love Zazzie Beats,but couldn't we found a more age appropriate
person if they are going to gothe love interest, Maybe they're just friends.
I don't know, or maybe it'sagain like I don't mean we saw
(49:00):
different trailers, and I mean weboth enjoyed the trailer and think it's going
the right direction. But I kindof felt like and maybe it's like the
like for him, he's he's notquite right. Yes I saw that.
Okay, I'm glad, but likemaybe this girl is nice to him and
(49:20):
he's misinterpreting you know what I'm saying, Like, well, that's quite very
possible, or you know, maybeso maybe like it's not like a relationship,
it's more of like he sees someonewho's kind to him. But maybe
and then maybe it won't like I'llbackfire in some way. I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, I'm interested inseeing that. Like I'm interested,
like I wonder, you know,if this movie will say anything hmm,
(49:45):
you know, yeah, if it'llsay hopefully, hopefully in this day and
age, you know, like becauseI feel like some people are a little
worried and you know, and honestly, they have they have a reason to
be worried about another movie painting peoplewho are who have a mental illness or
(50:07):
a mental disability, or you know, some sort who are not neurotypical with
a broad brush and a negative brush, where like somebody will see that and
go like, oh, well,I mean, if you have a mental
illness and your guess you're crazy,or if you're not neurotypical, or if
you're atypical, then it must becrazy or dangerous and psychotic. You know,
(50:28):
I'm able to see these movies andnot think that I'm able to do
that, but not everybody is,And so could that be detrimental to people
who are living in that in thatrealm of society and with disabilities like that
and with illnesses like that. Andso I'm hoping that they will find a
way to balance that in twenty nineteenwithout hurting the story and not treating it
(50:53):
with kid gloves. And but atthe same time, because we're living in
twenty nineteen, I wonder if thiswill have something to say about whether it's
socioeconomic status, racial status, urbanstatus, mental health in the United States
and how it's it's shunned or howlike you're just especially in the eighties,
(51:16):
oh my god, the early eighties, where you know, like if you
had anything that was atypical, thenyou were considered crazy and psychotic. And
maybe that's what pushes him all theedge because he's being ignored. Who knows.
I'm just wondering if it'll say somethingor if it's hopefully it will,
because I feel like those are themovies that definitely impact more instead of just
(51:36):
that, yeah, this guy wentcrazy and then he started murdering people,
right right, I think, likeeven from what you like, because we
free framed like the journal or whatever, and even like the quote that you
said, like was on there aboutlike mental health and how people expect you
not to act you know, acertain way or whatnot. I feel like
even in that self having that eventhere, I like it has to say
(52:00):
something. Yeah, I don't thinkthat it wouldn't just be this story.
Um. And yet at the sametime, like you said, I think
it's it's I mean, we're notjust talking about someone random, We're talking
about the joker, right, SoI think you have to allow some like
it's okay that he is going togo crazy because that's the story that we
(52:22):
want to see, and that's thejoke. He is psycho, right,
right, He's a psycho, butstill acknowledging like that not everyone will become
this way obviously, like not everybodywho has course psychosis are suffering. Some
of coosis, right will be violent, right, yeah, And so yes,
(52:42):
I'm hopeful hopefully they will take thosesteps to safeguard that or at least
not paint with a broad brush,right, um, and and maybe hey,
it'll say something like with what you'resaying, was Zazzi Beats, Like
Zazzi Beats is nice to him andin stereotypical male fashion, because she's nice.
It happens a lot as a female. Absolutely, Like you have a
(53:05):
million stories like that, and Iknow I have tons of other friends who
have a million stories just like it, where just because a woman is nice
to you, then all of asudden she owes you something or you think
it's it's something that it's not,and then when she rejects you, you
go off the deep end, youknow, right right, So, like
we could have a comment on howa mental illness is ignored. We could
(53:29):
have a comment on how toxic masculinity, you know, we could have so
many comments on this and where.And another argument like some people are making
is I don't want to feel sorryfor the joker, Like I don't want
to empathize with the joker and understandand everything like that, and I feel
like there's going to be some empathy. Yeah. I mean already in the
(53:51):
trailer, I've felt some empathy forhim. Yeah. But you can have
empathy for a character but still recognizeyes that they're making the wrong decisions.
Yeah, absolutely, and see thepath right, Okay, they should have
turned right, but they went left. I kind of liken it to Walter
White, where you empathize with WalterWhite and you understand and understand what he's
(54:16):
going through, but then you're justlike, oh, you're making a whole
bunch of wrong decisions, like youare becoming the villain. I don't feel
sorry for you. I understand whereyou're coming from, and I'm pseudo rooting
for you because you're the protagonist,but you are the villain here exactly.
And I think that's a fine line. I think that that's why I recommended
works so much in that way,is that you started off feeling bad and
(54:38):
then you slowly became like, no, he deserves everything that comes to him.
Yeah, But at the same time, you want to see that story
because, like you said, thisis what you want, this is what
you came for, and so itcan be done. Everything that we just
described can be done appropriately. Absolutelywill they who knows, don't know.
(55:00):
We don't know that it could failmiserably, It could be a could be
a terrible movie with great trailers.Just watch Suicide Squad, you know.
Um. Yeah, I hope thatthey don't show too much. I hope
that we get this teaser. Wehave this teaser trailer, and then we
get one more trailer and then that'sit like endgame, like endgame. Oh,
that's that's an extreme um. Maybea little bit more than that.
(55:22):
Um, but yeah, something inthat vein. So yeah, all right,
Well we talked along than we setout. Yeah, we said,
like as we were talking about thisepisode, like well, let's just talk
about the Joker trailer at the top, but then we'll just kind of transitioning
to eightieth anniversary Batman. No,it was more like nine percent Joker,
ten percent Batman. It's so true. It's true. As you could tell,
(55:45):
we are excited for this film.Um. So please check out our
backlog by going to the nerdparty dotcom. Ye write us a review if
you like what we do, andif you give us a five star review,
we'll mention you on the show.Write to us, let us know
what you think, give us someshow topics if you want us to talk
about anything in particular. We lovegetting feedback and we love getting letters from
(56:08):
you guys. Yeah, and wereally do appreciate those people who write us
regularly and contact us regularly. Yeah. And we have lots of other shows
you can check out on the networkas well. Absolutely so. Yeah,
we have so many. We havea Harry Potter show, we have multiple
Star Wars shows, multiple Star Trekshows, we got a Doctor Who show,
(56:29):
and so many other that I'm forgettingright now. But go to the
nerdparty dot com. There's something foreveryone. It really is great. And
speaking of Endgame, I cannot Icannot wait until we get to April twenty
fifth. Yes, we have tickets. We have tickets for AMC Dolby showing,
(56:49):
first showing Thursday night. It's gonnabe great. Yeah, we're excited.
We are excited. So thank youguys so much for listening. I
love you, I know it's gollyYes, marry me. I love you
and I like you. I loveyou and I like you. I love
that woman. I love her morethan sharks low Blood. I love you.
(57:17):
I don't h
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