March 10, 2025 • 39 mins
In this special edition of the NESG podcast, we explore the critical role of the Nigerian Economic Summit Group (NESG) in accelerating action toward gender-inclusive growth in Nigeria. As Africa’s leading think tank, NESG has been at the forefront of economic transformation for over 30 years, driving strategic reforms, policy advocacy, and institutional strengthening. This episode highlights NESG’s efforts in championing gender inclusivity across key sectors, focusing on: 🔹 Workforce Management 🔹 Corporate Governance 🔹 Gender Policy 🔹 Legislative Advocacy Featuring insights from esteemed NESG leaders, this conversation delves into how gender equity is being integrated into Nigeria’s economic and policy landscape, fostering meaningful and sustainable change. Tune in to be part of the movement toward a more inclusive future!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello, everyone, Welcome to the NHG Radio. In commemoration of
the International Women's Day this.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Year twenty twenty five, we'll be speaking to the theme
Accelerate Action and here with me are.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Speakers of esteemed value.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Today's podcast will be highlighting any h these efforts in
driving systemic change and accelerating action for women's equality, focusing
on three key areas. We're looking at the workforce management,
We're looking at gender policy and legislative advocacy.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
So basically the whole lessense.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Of this is to delve into practical solutions for advancing
gender inclusion in economic and policy frameworks, providing valuable insights
for policymakers, corporate leaders, young professionals and stakeholders committed to
gender equality and Nigeria's socio economic transformation. So the speakers
(01:08):
we meet today are Bamy Ibrahim, Head of Workforce Management.
We also have Kelly Omulet, Gender and Inclusion Lead, Policy
Innovation Center. We have Cardigas at Kushler Saber lead at
the initially con Center for Legislative Reforms and Economic Developments.
(01:30):
And you have Ywando Olubokon as your moderateor Suday.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Okay, So here with me today we have Baby Brahim,
head of Workforce Management at the Nigerian Economics. Good morning, Margot,
to have you here today. Thank you here wee day,
good morning everyone. So to you now we will be
taking them the first question and we'll be looking at
so basically women contrue to face barriers in career advancements.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
What would you say as specific.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Actions that the NHG has taken to acceleerate gender parity
in leadership and workforce participation particularly. I know you have
been in this business, this game for so many years now,
so I also expect that you kind of give us
insights into probably one of your experiences, maybe like a
(02:27):
case study if possible.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So can you please help us like understand like how women.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
What specific actions ny ERGY has taken to accelerate gender
parity in leadership and workforce participation? Thank you, okay, thank
you your one day at the NHG. Inclusion is an
intentional help for us. If I had the guide everything
(02:57):
with you and I would they even for other organizations,
any organization control that would like to accelerate inclusion. Gender
inclusion specifically, they need to be intentional about it. They
need to be guided by data and also be structured
(03:18):
in their approach towards it. So right from when we
talk of employees cycle or people's cycle, it starts from iroing.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
From recruitment.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
You know, when you have your strategy documents, the next
thing is strategy will not implement itself. You need people.
And when you're analyzing your people, if you have your
skill in out at the end of age. We are
intentional about ensuring that there is a balance nail and
febil and in cases where we need to hire, but
then ensure that there is no bias. You know, there's
(03:52):
something we call unconscious byers. Everybody one way or the
other is bians. Most professionals are biased, most organizations are biased.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
We can't help it.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Why because we are from different backgrounds, We are from
different work environments, and we find ourselves working together having
to fulfill a mission right or an objective or set
of objectives. But are enesg we are We intentionally, you know,
speak to conscious bias. Were ensured that people are aware
(04:26):
of the biases. So in hiring decision, we are very conscious.
Whether it's male or female, we speak to the goal.
If the female is qualified, we bring the female on
board and we also monitor our numbers to ensure that
there is some form of balance, not that we have
ninety percent male and a ten percent women. You know,
(04:46):
from time to time when we're doing our analysis, we
will look at how we join, how are we doing,
how is it guiding you know, some other decisions that
we're making, you know, in the near future. So to
start from hiring, yes, we sort out unconscious by us.
We sensitize our people from time to time on it,
(05:08):
sometimes on one on one cases and sometimes in group
and group of conversations. So unconscious by us, not just
in inclusion matters, but even you know, in day to day,
in day to day matters. Another way that at the
ensg we we we are conscious of gender balances, ensuring
(05:30):
that opportunity is central for all. We close opportunity gaps,
you know, for for both genders boats male and female,
or any gender at all, any any any gender. Yeah,
And like I mentioned earlier, it's an intentional act. And
you see us consciously even when we are drafting programs,
(05:55):
when we are drafting a gender attaching people to it. Okay,
this should be handled by man. Okay, this should be
handled by female. Oh okay, we have at least this gender.
Well we have to and we already have ten and
the other okay, let them be balanced, okay, but people
that are qualified, because when discussing the issue of buyers,
sometimes we are running away from buyers and were run
(06:15):
into another buyers. So we do a lot of awareness
of conscious buyers. Also at the areas we offer flexible
publice policies. From time to time we update our policies
to ensure that it's still caters you know, to and
for our people. Our policies as such that it accommodates
(06:37):
hybrid model. We know what the life of a woman is,
you know, especially by nature, by design, by how God
has designed a woman to be at certain age a
woman in most places or most cultures, we get pregnant,
you get you have a baby for the body to
come back to place.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
You know, we try to ensure that we.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Have policies that go date you know, some natural designs.
And also, like I said, when talking of gender inclusion
and balance, it's not just for the female gender, even
the male as well.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So in our policies.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
You say, we have even provision for paternity as well,
not just maternity, you know, And we have what we
call parentally you know, such that it covers with periods
and also some care given support. We hope just ensure
that the workplace policies that are sort of accommodating enough
(07:30):
so we reveal from time to time we also have
prohibition in our policies for women returning to work after
any form of break. Our policy, like I said, when
talking about gender, I like to have a balance because
(07:50):
if we.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Are not careful, be running away from one bias and
enter into another one which we are not careful.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So in all our policies there is a balance intentional
and we're conscious about it. Also in our performance management,
it's as much as we can we're bias free. We're
bias free. It's not because you have of a particular
gender or not. You know, we address even the issue
of unconscious bias in performance reviews in making some decisions.
(08:23):
Thank you, thank you very much beingie for that's very
in detailed, you know response, because that kind of fed
into actually the next question I wanted to ask you,
which had to do with integrating gender inclusive policies in
its workforce and development programs, where you've pretty much already
spoken to that.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So one more question and.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
What barriers do you think prevents more women from rising
to senior leadership positions and how do you suggest or
agree that organizations and acceleerates progress barriers yes, presenting wo
learn from rising to senior leadership positions and how can
(09:08):
organizations accelerates progress? Okay, starting from what I had mentioned earlier,
which is unconscious biers. Certain biases push women to a
corner and in most caseses is unconscious even to from
the handle where it is coming from. They didn't know
(09:29):
they're doing what is not right. They didn't know they're
doing what is affecting another human being.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So when we say we sensitizer people on unconscious buyers intentionally,
we train intentionally, We have certain level technology, we have
certain subscriptions that our people have access to, you know,
just to sensitize them in this direction. So when we
can we minimize that at the workplace, we've broken certain
(09:57):
barriers to growth.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Another barrier that were mentioned is skilled skill level, you.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Know, and and.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What I've described as conditioning of the mind. When starting
women think it's not their space.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
And something picked when I reach a particular grade level
at work, I've picked the one barriers is unconscious bias.
So what we do at the HG is we sensitize
out of people to reduce the effect of unconscious pass
on women, especially in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Another one is skill, skill level, skill.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Level, So in our training plan, in our training and
development program for staff, were ing sure that we give
everybody called opportunity, regardless of your gender, whether you're a
bill or female. You know, we want to there's a
click a career path for you, which of course you're a
part of it.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
We cannot design a carrier part of you in your
absence a part of it.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And then in training you to becoming that beach go
the bessage you to become.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
You are part of it.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So even if it is technology and client to push
you into that direction, which your own understanding as well
or agreement knowledge, So in the area of knowledge, knowledge also.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Limits women in horizon.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Another thing is sponsorship lack of responsor, which that's word
that I mentioned as conscious bias has covered one way
or the other. When in when on when people are
on tables where decisions are made and there is no
body to push, Oh, oh we need a woman in
disual Oh yes, a man has been heading this for long,
(11:37):
not saying I forget it. Qualified woman, shap will do it.
Let's even have a change, let's do let's do that.
So we need this sponsorship is also important, which we
are also pushing and advocating to say that if it's
even better when it is women to women, if a
woman is in that room, in that bottom push, advocate
(12:00):
for you to have another women, for you to grow
from two women to three women, from from three women
to four women. So all these things comes to sensitize
and comes to advocating because there is the place of mentorship.
As a place of sponsorship, there's also a place of
availing them opportunity. You know, but even if you go
to the door, if they are not ready skill wise,
(12:22):
what can you do because there's also a place of evaluation.
We can't just continue to push people push people that
are not ready. But what we've had in the past
has shown us that mentorship has helped. Sensitization has helped
because women are more like preparing themselves and taking up
the challenge such that when there is an open door,
(12:45):
they ensure that they're fitting properly and they do their job.
They perform optimally as expected, and we've had We are
taking the thinking to a level where we are saying
that there shouldn't be any barrier.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
There shouldn't be any barrier anymore. You know.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Society expectations would also be a barrier. The one that
thinks where women should should carry babies, and there's a
minimum number of babies that you should carry, and you
should be married at a particular age that you should
be Society standards.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Society standards can also be a barrier.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
But the work are flowcasing is to statatize people, to
shift them from thinking in a particular way into another
manner of thinking that will help them better. You know,
that would help them drive, That will help them, you know,
succeed better. So society expectations to could be a barrier.
And what that is what mentorship covers when we attach
(13:44):
a woman to another woman or even to a man.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
We even bring men into this discussion.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Like I've mentioned when I started this conversation, we shouldn't
be running from one buyers and enter into another one.
So even men should be a part of this conversation.
So that even as this etis as well, sponsorship even
becomes even more I mean easier sponsorship becomes easier when
the other gender, you know, when they are carried as
(14:10):
long as thank you one.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Day, thank you very much. And so I'm just the
last bit.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
If you were to talk to like the young ones coming,
you know, the new set of people, newer, younger generation,
and what would be like a take home like one
line today that you want them to actually.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Take into like consideration.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I would say that regardless of your gender, you should
aim for the best in life and that nothing should
limit you accept yourself. If you are not limiting yourself,
nothing at all to hold you back. All you need
to do is do your proper analysis, set your goals,
set your goals, clear goals to your analysis. Okay, how
(14:56):
do I attend these schools?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
And if there seems to be need limitation, anything that
seems like a barrier on your way, do your research.
Begin to set out on that journey, you know, to
crash the barrier. And if an environment is holding you down,
please that means you've outgrown that environment.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Move to the next world.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Because you cannot continue to wear clothes that you've outgrown.
So if you want to fly, that environment is not
allowing you to fly. That is a message to you
the university telling you to keep on moving.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Thank you so much, Benny, I really appreciate. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
All right, So to our next speaker, me and Key,
can your more life from the Policy Innovation Center. Earlier
Bami had mentioned something regarding the mentorship and sponsorship programs,
So I would like to find out from you, like
how can mentorship and sponsorship programs be strengthened to accelerate
(15:57):
career growth for women?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
I thank you so much, and day I think it
is so critical at the Policy Innovation Center where presently
we just finished some work around women in economic leadership
and what we found out how critical you. So many
times when we hear about mentorship like you had mentioned,
(16:20):
we think it's overflogged.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
But it's so critical for women.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
To be able to rise in their career because you
cannot become what you cannot see.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
And what mentorship does for.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
You is that it becomes like it creates like a
pathway for you to know how to move.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
And for mentorship.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Programs to be successful, we have to have first of all,
let's be data driven so that whatever is structured is
really speaking to the needs of the people. We are
developing the mentorship for so it might be that. So
one thing that we saw when we were doing that
work was that a lot of women when they came
(17:00):
when you get to the reproductive ages, we are really
that thirty to forty, a lot of women slow down
in their career. And this is also a very courage
when a lot of people in management see them and
then they're being you know, picked for things around promotion
and what we see that many people, for example, when
(17:21):
women when they give, but they don't know how to
navigate back into the system. But if they have for
years into back into their career, so that's why you
see them falling off. But if they are mentors who
have worked that path, who can then hold them to
from a level, then we can see that they will thrive.
So mentorship is so key we can't even begin to Yeah,
(17:46):
thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Thank you so much, Kenny. So now mentorship is really key,
I really yes. So now to your second question, and
so it is now that the years post Beijing declaration,
you know, and then we're talking about the progress on
women's rights. While some will say progress on women's rights
(18:10):
has been slow, you know, others will have like opposing
views and all of all that, but I would really
like to find out from you what are some of
the most pressing gender related policy gaps and Nigeria and
how can they be urgently addressed.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
All right, thank you so much for your questions. So
you know, we know Nigeria we have very good policies. However,
one major challenge I personally have seen policy and we've
seen as well is poor implementation, whereby we don't have
we have lovely, lovely policies, but when you now go
(18:52):
about or to do what has been done on this policy,
we see that it's redundant. So that's one of the
major and one of the drivers of this has to
do with issues around capacity. So of course there you
have the policy, but the people who the policy will
have to drive the policy. Do they even understand what
(19:12):
the policy is about, but they have the to drive the.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Gender related policy.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So for example, we have the National Gender Policy, we
have the Violence against Personal Prohibition Acts, and this is
very policy that if we're able to implement a lot
of the conversations that we're having about gender inequity will
not be you know, in place in the National Gender
Policy will have the Affirmative Action which recommends that five
(19:38):
percent and representation of women in leadership. So the people
who can help us drive you do they even have
do they understand the strategies?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
We don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
The people with the political will dostand the concept to
that's the thing. Then another thing I would also say
is having every pore monition and evalue show processes. We
have very great money processes that help us. Ok what
progress have we made, you know, to know the progress
we've made, what benefit have we gotten from that progress? So,
(20:12):
because I've beeneve that everybody likes to everybody likes progress,
but everybody can like progress that they can measure and
see its impact. Yeah, So this of the key challenges
that we've seen with gender related policies in the country.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Thank you, Thank you so much, Ken you for that.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
So the last question, I know, if you like, going
back to as far back as twenty eighteen, I had
advocated for you know, we're talking about the Childbride Acts
and all of all that, and while I was at
the parliaments, as was plament, I had spoken to them
about the fact that I didn't see it being okay
(20:52):
with a ten year old child being eligible to be
married off, you know the bride. Yes, me ten year
old child did not have the eligibility to like vote
and all of all that.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
And it's interesting to.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Know that on the whole, like the whole panel, and
that's like everybody discussing the fate of like the African
and Andrean girl child, you know, the child bright issue
and all of all that, there was not even one woman,
you know, to decide the fate of like the So
it kind of like showed poorer representation.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
But I think it is interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You know, these days we're seeing more women you know,
being represented, you know, even in the House of Representatives
you know, and people like you that are experts like
this field, you know, talking about it and all of
all that.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I think it's it's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
And somehow, yes, the success or the progress may be slogo,
I guess progress is progress. Yeah, So how is the
Police Innovation Center working with some policymakers to accelerate the
inclusive economic policies engine.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Thank you so much you and they're well done also
for the work you're doing in this ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
So yes, the Policy Innovation Center, we really are.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
So this is our hearts as part of our approaches,
we use gender transformative approaches as well as liver.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Or insight approaches.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
So when it comes to how we're able as strategy
to ensuring that engaging policy makers, you know, to accelerate
gender inclusive related policies. One of the things that we
do is that we provide technical support and relating to
policy evement. So for example, we are presently providing technical
support for the domestication implementation of the Women's Economic Empowerment
(22:48):
Policy in Legal State and what is basically we're supporting
them to develop a policy and a roadmap as well
as coming up with strategies helping them in terms of
engaging the critical stakeholders on how to ensure that this
policy does not just die after it's been developed but
is working. We've also, for who supported the Ductate government
(23:12):
helped integrate gender and social inclusions to do digital policy
just to ensure that no one is left behind in
this digital transformation ECIT. So these are things that we've
done around that technical support technical around the technical support
we have provided. Also we have the Gender and Inclusion
(23:33):
which is one of the largest export, the largest platform
and gender and inclusion in the country. And what we've
done is that we ensure that we engage policy makers
as well as other stakeholders you know, reading from private
sector leaders, development partners, you know, to just go start
gender responsive discussion around governance and economic And how we
(23:55):
do this is that we ensure that we have policy
a lots you know, issues around studies, knowledge sharing, spression
to ensure that you know, to support the governments in
providing the knowledge to help them makeing from policies as
well around gender. Another thing that we do well and
(24:15):
so far we've trained close to four hundred participants, is
that we understand that while you may have a very
good policy, if they're issues around and capacity gaps, you
can't really drive this policy. So we want a gender
on course right now. And so far we've been in
supported befriend government agency in driving this. For example, we support.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Training in temper of gender.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
I think kind of states primary healthcare development even with
you know, in just trying to or help them understand
how can help they can be more gender inclusive in
their operations as well. The capacity building is something we
have provided in our relation filmakers and of course evidence
generation you know, which were very big. We're ensured that
(25:06):
we make evidence available so that poor filmmakers can.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Can make sportant helping them make.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
More informed decisions while they're doing great works while we
have while where we have the when evidence is available,
they can even make bater informed decisions. And that was
what we were able to so the work we do
together with the ENNS through whereby we were able to
do the gender analysis of the mining set.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
For which was very very very useful information.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
And we're very glad now that I know the mining
sector have developed the Stray gender strategy and for that
for that equo difference. So yeah, so are some of
the things that we do, you know, to ensure that
policymakers can do the great work they're already doing, but
even doing it better and more seamlessly.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Bearing so so our thirt speaker and candigiat I would
like to know what like the next We understand already
that legal frameworks are essential for gender quality.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
So can you.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Enlighten us on how the National Consenter is advocating for
policy and legislative reforms to accelerate progress for women in
a nigineer. Okay, thank you Yo and day, and thank
you to all the previous speakers was really insightful listening
to you. So at the National Concenter, we work on
(26:36):
legislative framework and regulatory policies. We understand the importance of
the importance of gender equality and equity in our work,
specifically because this framework we already have, like some framework
just like permitted that provide for this equality. The only
(27:00):
problem we have, or the major problem we have, is implementation.
So the foundational law in Nigeria, for example, the Constitution
already provided for equality under the Human Rights Provisions. Everybody
have the right to life, to know discrimination based on gender,
(27:24):
based on sex. So but at the same time, when
it comes to implementation, there's been a challenge. We have
the Child Right Acts that is still yet to be
implemented a Court of State. We have the Violence Against
Persons Prevention Act is still yet to be implemented at
(27:45):
Court of State. So at the National Consenter we are
playing an active role in first proposing legislations that go
into addressing this gender gap. Second also supporting the implementation
of this legis and this was what led to the
establishment of our State Assembly Business Environmental Table because we
(28:06):
wanted to go beyond what was happening on the national stage.
We wanted to go to the point where we also
support the subnational implementing these laws, in domesticating these laws
and in having like an ammonized provision that protects everybody
at all level of government.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
And toddly, we also.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Support the monitoring and evolution of both the national laws
and the international treaties. We've been part of conversation around
table discussion and even engagements that tend to.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Where we assessed.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Participation ornaja's level of progress when it comes to implementing
bilateral treaties and international treaties that provide for the right
of women and children. So recently were part of an
engagement on assessing the level of implementation of the More
Protocol in Nigeria. So these are some of the things
we are doing that in order to ensure that legislations
(29:05):
and policies are gender sensitive in the sense that it
takes into constitution gender and equity in the process of it.
We also pay attention to female participation in governance. For example,
we were recently part of a gender strategy and Policy
(29:27):
review for the National Assembly in which we're looking at
the role of like the importance of free male being
part of the National Assembly being part of the legislative
body at all levels. So this are some of the
things that we do supporting national and states legislations to
ensure that laws that are pasted are paying attention that
(29:50):
there are laws that have taken into constitution different gender,
gender equality, gender equity, and the need for women participation
in all level of government in order to promote economic development.
Thank you so much for the comprehensive response, Contigua. So
(30:13):
to my second question, because you know, you had mentioned challenges,
particularly with like implementation and all of all that, and
some would argue that usually when they are challenges, those
challenges can be seen as opportunities, you know, because it
kind of like, you know, their gap, so it's it's
like indicating, Okay, there's a gap here, so there's an
(30:33):
opportunity to fill that gap. So with that in mind,
what legal and institutional barriers would you say still hinder
gender equity and what steps should be taken to overcome them.
That's your own opinion, now, thank you, Thank you so much,
and that's a very great question. So, yes, there are
(30:53):
still legal and institutional barriers, and to start with it,
I would say that the first is a wicked for
me of these gender laws. So we have a lot
of okay sees that go on on the national level.
These laws have passed, but when it comes to implementation
of this law, there's like there's there's no momentum to
implement it as much as they want to pass it.
(31:16):
So we have laws that are already in existence, we
have human human rights, gender rights that have been acknowledged
by legislation, but when it comes to implementation, there's a
very weak enforcement of the gender laws. So this is
one of the biggest challenge that we are having when
it comes to gender policy and gender legislations and Nigeria.
(31:39):
I think also the conflicting legal system can also pose
as a challenge.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
So you would understand that and you are on like
a multiple legal system.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
There's a customary law, there are religious law, there's a
national common law. So because that people tend to it
tends to be difficult to or to implement the statutory
laws in a situation where there are still constitutions to
religious provision, custumery provision. So even in the process of
(32:10):
implementing their challenges like oh that is how it is
done in our culture or this is the religious provision.
So you're saying that eighteen years is the legal age
for consent to marry, and somebody is saying no, but
in my religion, you can do it this way.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
So and as a result.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I think that leads me to myself to my third challenge,
which is that because these lawmakers or the implementers are
majorly politicians, the ride on people's people's validation of what
they do. They're usually very careful not to offend, so
like there's a there's a there's a challenge that you
(32:48):
don't want to offend institution so that it doesn't politically
go against you. So a lot of times when people
want to implement, you see pressure. So you see like
there's a lot of pressure from failureus side, and as
a result, you just see that there's low implementation. So
these are like some of them. These are like some
(33:09):
of the challenge that we've had. Like there's also like
under representation in politics, because when we talk about whether
these laws we represent women or not, we need to
even think about whether women are even on this table
where these laws have been deliberated or where these policies
have been deliveated, you can expect somebody to represent you
(33:32):
in your absence. So not until women are feeling represented
in politics, there will always be a challenge as to
their inclusion in these policies and legislation. There's the issue
of economic resources, definitely, and the issue of economic resources
is a is a product of the gaps. If women
have limited access to education, if women have limited if
(33:55):
women are meant to met to marrige so early, definitely
to lead to a gaping economic resource advocation because they
don't have the freedom and the opportunities that their male
counterparts have. So definitely there will be that challenge. So, yes,
these are some of the challenges are caney be fixed. Definitely,
is to accelerate the legal reforms, Like we need to
(34:18):
go beyond oh the past this laws, Yes, we celebrate
that it has been passed, but we need to go
beyond person We need to hold government accountable for implementation
of laws. So when we are assisting in designing policies,
when we are assisting in designing laws, it goes beyond
just getting their laws past. The aim of it at
(34:40):
the end of the day is to see that law
make an impact in the society, and it can't make
an impact from the shelf of the library.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
It has to be implemented.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
So yes, we need to get acceleerate legal reforms that
implement these laws, domesticate these international treaties that we've signed
plenty ofties that I would say, oh, we promote women's women's writing,
and yeah, we need to domesticate it and actually implement.
There's also a need to strengthen institution our capacity, and
I think that's one of the repressive things that keep
(35:09):
mentioned that PIC was doing, because it is important to
have capacity building that actually goes into Everybody needs to
understand their role in promoting gender equity. So it's important
that we drive this inclusive approach to it. Let everybody
play a part in it. Let us support both the
(35:31):
national and stop national in implementing it, and let us
actually push for laws mandating with the cognition of women
and actually implementing those laws. So those are the few
solutions that I think we can adopt solve this time.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Thank you, Thank you so much. Crategize.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Interesting that you went back to what I had spoken
earlier when I was talking about the child's Ride build
and all of all that, and then female representation basically
and all of all that. So another for us to
actually get that change. What I'm getting from is we
have to equally have men having these conversations or them
equally being in the room, have women there's a female
(36:09):
representation as well, them equally being in the role.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
And seeing how first to resolve these issues. Thank you
so much for that very valuable insights.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
So if you were to take home, if we were
to take home one line today, what would they be? Okay,
So I think my take home line would be that
whenever we are working on whatever we're asked to work
in the for gender equality, we should understand that we're
(36:40):
not just doing this for ourselves.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
We're doing it for generation to come, like our perish.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
So whatever laws we are passing now, whatever laws really
maintain now, they're like, we're doing it for people that
are coming being So it's important that we understand that
the fact that we can move freely toly are due
to it's due to the fight of some people in
(37:08):
the past who have actually fought.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
From what we are now enjoying today.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
So we most deliberate about making sure that we are
also driving more extension and laws that goes to ensure
that people the more like the more we hate, the
more there is freedom for women. There is economic inclusion
for women. So we should be elevated about making each
other within things that generations to come with the croud
(37:34):
of what we've.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Done, Yes and enjoy. Yes, Thank you so much. It's nice.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
It's interesting that you mentioned that because you know, we
had earlier stated something around them being an intentional you know, intentionality.
So you all the decisions we're making, we have to
have it at the back of our minds that we
are making these decisions for the greater good of the generations,
evenly yet.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
On bond you know and all of other.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Thank you so much so and telling to you what
would you want us to take home today? Just the
one line, like just one line that you really want
to be stuck.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
In like our hearts today. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Okay, so we need to address limiting jinger notes.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
I'll just stop, all right, all.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Right, So thank you so much, all us speakers. It
has been a truly valuable and insightful discussion, you know,
around the gender agrety and the new accelerating action and
all of other. Thank you so much for your time,
you know, Thank you so much for like your well
of wisdom which you have basically drank from you know today,
(38:45):
So thanks for joining us on this special episode, and
on that note, to listen to previous episodes, please visit
nextgroup dot org slash podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Thank you so much and do have a splendid day. Bye.
Hello, everyone, Welcome to the NHG Radio. In commemoration of
the International Women's Day this.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Year twenty twenty five, we'll be speaking to the theme
Accelerate Action and here with me are.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Speakers of esteemed value.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Today's podcast will be highlighting any h these efforts in
driving systemic change and accelerating action for women's equality, focusing
on three key areas. We're looking at the workforce management,
We're looking at gender policy and legislative advocacy.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
So basically the whole lessense.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Of this is to delve into practical solutions for advancing
gender inclusion in economic and policy frameworks, providing valuable insights
for policymakers, corporate leaders, young professionals and stakeholders committed to
gender equality and Nigeria's socio economic transformation. So the speakers
(01:08):
we meet today are Bamy Ibrahim, Head of Workforce Management.
We also have Kelly Omulet, Gender and Inclusion Lead, Policy
Innovation Center. We have Cardigas at Kushler Saber lead at
the initially con Center for Legislative Reforms and Economic Developments.
(01:30):
And you have Ywando Olubokon as your moderateor Suday.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Okay, So here with me today we have Baby Brahim,
head of Workforce Management at the Nigerian Economics. Good morning, Margot,
to have you here today. Thank you here wee day,
good morning everyone. So to you now we will be
taking them the first question and we'll be looking at
so basically women contrue to face barriers in career advancements.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
What would you say as specific.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Actions that the NHG has taken to acceleerate gender parity
in leadership and workforce participation particularly. I know you have
been in this business, this game for so many years now,
so I also expect that you kind of give us
insights into probably one of your experiences, maybe like a
(02:27):
case study if possible.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
So can you please help us like understand like how women.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
What specific actions ny ERGY has taken to accelerate gender
parity in leadership and workforce participation? Thank you, okay, thank
you your one day at the NHG. Inclusion is an
intentional help for us. If I had the guide everything
(02:57):
with you and I would they even for other organizations,
any organization control that would like to accelerate inclusion. Gender
inclusion specifically, they need to be intentional about it. They
need to be guided by data and also be structured
(03:18):
in their approach towards it. So right from when we
talk of employees cycle or people's cycle, it starts from iroing.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
From recruitment.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
You know, when you have your strategy documents, the next
thing is strategy will not implement itself. You need people.
And when you're analyzing your people, if you have your
skill in out at the end of age. We are
intentional about ensuring that there is a balance nail and
febil and in cases where we need to hire, but
then ensure that there is no bias. You know, there's
(03:52):
something we call unconscious byers. Everybody one way or the
other is bians. Most professionals are biased, most organizations are biased.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
We can't help it.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Why because we are from different backgrounds, We are from
different work environments, and we find ourselves working together having
to fulfill a mission right or an objective or set
of objectives. But are enesg we are We intentionally, you know,
speak to conscious bias. Were ensured that people are aware
(04:26):
of the biases. So in hiring decision, we are very conscious.
Whether it's male or female, we speak to the goal.
If the female is qualified, we bring the female on
board and we also monitor our numbers to ensure that
there is some form of balance, not that we have
ninety percent male and a ten percent women. You know,
(04:46):
from time to time when we're doing our analysis, we
will look at how we join, how are we doing,
how is it guiding you know, some other decisions that
we're making, you know, in the near future. So to
start from hiring, yes, we sort out unconscious by us.
We sensitize our people from time to time on it,
(05:08):
sometimes on one on one cases and sometimes in group
and group of conversations. So unconscious by us, not just
in inclusion matters, but even you know, in day to day,
in day to day matters. Another way that at the
ensg we we we are conscious of gender balances, ensuring
(05:30):
that opportunity is central for all. We close opportunity gaps,
you know, for for both genders boats male and female,
or any gender at all, any any any gender. Yeah,
And like I mentioned earlier, it's an intentional act. And
you see us consciously even when we are drafting programs,
(05:55):
when we are drafting a gender attaching people to it. Okay,
this should be handled by man. Okay, this should be
handled by female. Oh okay, we have at least this gender.
Well we have to and we already have ten and
the other okay, let them be balanced, okay, but people
that are qualified, because when discussing the issue of buyers,
sometimes we are running away from buyers and were run
(06:15):
into another buyers. So we do a lot of awareness
of conscious buyers. Also at the areas we offer flexible
publice policies. From time to time we update our policies
to ensure that it's still caters you know, to and
for our people. Our policies as such that it accommodates
(06:37):
hybrid model. We know what the life of a woman is,
you know, especially by nature, by design, by how God
has designed a woman to be at certain age a
woman in most places or most cultures, we get pregnant,
you get you have a baby for the body to
come back to place.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
You know, we try to ensure that we.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Have policies that go date you know, some natural designs.
And also, like I said, when talking of gender inclusion
and balance, it's not just for the female gender, even
the male as well.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So in our policies.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
You say, we have even provision for paternity as well,
not just maternity, you know, And we have what we
call parentally you know, such that it covers with periods
and also some care given support. We hope just ensure
that the workplace policies that are sort of accommodating enough
(07:30):
so we reveal from time to time we also have
prohibition in our policies for women returning to work after
any form of break. Our policy, like I said, when
talking about gender, I like to have a balance because
(07:50):
if we.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Are not careful, be running away from one bias and
enter into another one which we are not careful.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
So in all our policies there is a balance intentional
and we're conscious about it. Also in our performance management,
it's as much as we can we're bias free. We're
bias free. It's not because you have of a particular
gender or not. You know, we address even the issue
of unconscious bias in performance reviews in making some decisions.
(08:23):
Thank you, thank you very much beingie for that's very
in detailed, you know response, because that kind of fed
into actually the next question I wanted to ask you,
which had to do with integrating gender inclusive policies in
its workforce and development programs, where you've pretty much already
spoken to that.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
So one more question and.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
What barriers do you think prevents more women from rising
to senior leadership positions and how do you suggest or
agree that organizations and acceleerates progress barriers yes, presenting wo
learn from rising to senior leadership positions and how can
(09:08):
organizations accelerates progress? Okay, starting from what I had mentioned earlier,
which is unconscious biers. Certain biases push women to a
corner and in most caseses is unconscious even to from
the handle where it is coming from. They didn't know
(09:29):
they're doing what is not right. They didn't know they're
doing what is affecting another human being.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So when we say we sensitizer people on unconscious buyers intentionally,
we train intentionally, We have certain level technology, we have
certain subscriptions that our people have access to, you know,
just to sensitize them in this direction. So when we
can we minimize that at the workplace, we've broken certain
(09:57):
barriers to growth.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Another barrier that were mentioned is skilled skill level, you.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Know, and and.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
What I've described as conditioning of the mind. When starting
women think it's not their space.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
And something picked when I reach a particular grade level
at work, I've picked the one barriers is unconscious bias.
So what we do at the HG is we sensitize
out of people to reduce the effect of unconscious pass
on women, especially in the workplace.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Another one is skill, skill level, skill.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Level, So in our training plan, in our training and
development program for staff, were ing sure that we give
everybody called opportunity, regardless of your gender, whether you're a
bill or female. You know, we want to there's a
click a career path for you, which of course you're a
part of it.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
We cannot design a carrier part of you in your
absence a part of it.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And then in training you to becoming that beach go
the bessage you to become.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
You are part of it.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So even if it is technology and client to push
you into that direction, which your own understanding as well
or agreement knowledge, So in the area of knowledge, knowledge also.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Limits women in horizon.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Another thing is sponsorship lack of responsor, which that's word
that I mentioned as conscious bias has covered one way
or the other. When in when on when people are
on tables where decisions are made and there is no
body to push, Oh, oh we need a woman in
disual Oh yes, a man has been heading this for long,
(11:37):
not saying I forget it. Qualified woman, shap will do it.
Let's even have a change, let's do let's do that.
So we need this sponsorship is also important, which we
are also pushing and advocating to say that if it's
even better when it is women to women, if a
woman is in that room, in that bottom push, advocate
(12:00):
for you to have another women, for you to grow
from two women to three women, from from three women
to four women. So all these things comes to sensitize
and comes to advocating because there is the place of mentorship.
As a place of sponsorship, there's also a place of
availing them opportunity. You know, but even if you go
to the door, if they are not ready skill wise,
(12:22):
what can you do because there's also a place of evaluation.
We can't just continue to push people push people that
are not ready. But what we've had in the past
has shown us that mentorship has helped. Sensitization has helped
because women are more like preparing themselves and taking up
the challenge such that when there is an open door,
(12:45):
they ensure that they're fitting properly and they do their job.
They perform optimally as expected, and we've had We are
taking the thinking to a level where we are saying
that there shouldn't be any barrier.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
There shouldn't be any barrier anymore. You know.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Society expectations would also be a barrier. The one that
thinks where women should should carry babies, and there's a
minimum number of babies that you should carry, and you
should be married at a particular age that you should
be Society standards.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Society standards can also be a barrier.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
But the work are flowcasing is to statatize people, to
shift them from thinking in a particular way into another
manner of thinking that will help them better. You know,
that would help them drive, That will help them, you know,
succeed better. So society expectations to could be a barrier.
And what that is what mentorship covers when we attach
(13:44):
a woman to another woman or even to a man.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
We even bring men into this discussion.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Like I've mentioned when I started this conversation, we shouldn't
be running from one buyers and enter into another one.
So even men should be a part of this conversation.
So that even as this etis as well, sponsorship even
becomes even more I mean easier sponsorship becomes easier when
the other gender, you know, when they are carried as
(14:10):
long as thank you one.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Day, thank you very much. And so I'm just the
last bit.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
If you were to talk to like the young ones coming,
you know, the new set of people, newer, younger generation,
and what would be like a take home like one
line today that you want them to actually.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
Take into like consideration.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I would say that regardless of your gender, you should
aim for the best in life and that nothing should
limit you accept yourself. If you are not limiting yourself,
nothing at all to hold you back. All you need
to do is do your proper analysis, set your goals,
set your goals, clear goals to your analysis. Okay, how
(14:56):
do I attend these schools?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (14:58):
And if there seems to be need limitation, anything that
seems like a barrier on your way, do your research.
Begin to set out on that journey, you know, to
crash the barrier. And if an environment is holding you down,
please that means you've outgrown that environment.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
Move to the next world.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Because you cannot continue to wear clothes that you've outgrown.
So if you want to fly, that environment is not
allowing you to fly. That is a message to you
the university telling you to keep on moving.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Thank you so much, Benny, I really appreciate. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
All right, So to our next speaker, me and Key,
can your more life from the Policy Innovation Center. Earlier
Bami had mentioned something regarding the mentorship and sponsorship programs,
So I would like to find out from you, like
how can mentorship and sponsorship programs be strengthened to accelerate
(15:57):
career growth for women?
Speaker 4 (16:00):
I thank you so much, and day I think it
is so critical at the Policy Innovation Center where presently
we just finished some work around women in economic leadership
and what we found out how critical you. So many
times when we hear about mentorship like you had mentioned,
(16:20):
we think it's overflogged.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
But it's so critical for women.
Speaker 4 (16:26):
To be able to rise in their career because you
cannot become what you cannot see.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
And what mentorship does for.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
You is that it becomes like it creates like a
pathway for you to know how to move.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
And for mentorship.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
Programs to be successful, we have to have first of all,
let's be data driven so that whatever is structured is
really speaking to the needs of the people. We are
developing the mentorship for so it might be that. So
one thing that we saw when we were doing that
work was that a lot of women when they came
(17:00):
when you get to the reproductive ages, we are really
that thirty to forty, a lot of women slow down
in their career. And this is also a very courage
when a lot of people in management see them and
then they're being you know, picked for things around promotion
and what we see that many people, for example, when
(17:21):
women when they give, but they don't know how to
navigate back into the system. But if they have for
years into back into their career, so that's why you
see them falling off. But if they are mentors who
have worked that path, who can then hold them to
from a level, then we can see that they will thrive.
So mentorship is so key we can't even begin to Yeah,
(17:46):
thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Thank you so much, Kenny. So now mentorship is really key,
I really yes. So now to your second question, and
so it is now that the years post Beijing declaration,
you know, and then we're talking about the progress on
women's rights. While some will say progress on women's rights
(18:10):
has been slow, you know, others will have like opposing
views and all of all that, but I would really
like to find out from you what are some of
the most pressing gender related policy gaps and Nigeria and
how can they be urgently addressed.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
All right, thank you so much for your questions. So
you know, we know Nigeria we have very good policies. However,
one major challenge I personally have seen policy and we've
seen as well is poor implementation, whereby we don't have
we have lovely, lovely policies, but when you now go
(18:52):
about or to do what has been done on this policy,
we see that it's redundant. So that's one of the
major and one of the drivers of this has to
do with issues around capacity. So of course there you
have the policy, but the people who the policy will
have to drive the policy. Do they even understand what
(19:12):
the policy is about, but they have the to drive the.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Gender related policy.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
So for example, we have the National Gender Policy, we
have the Violence against Personal Prohibition Acts, and this is
very policy that if we're able to implement a lot
of the conversations that we're having about gender inequity will
not be you know, in place in the National Gender
Policy will have the Affirmative Action which recommends that five
(19:38):
percent and representation of women in leadership. So the people
who can help us drive you do they even have
do they understand the strategies?
Speaker 3 (19:48):
We don't know what to do.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
The people with the political will dostand the concept to
that's the thing. Then another thing I would also say
is having every pore monition and evalue show processes. We
have very great money processes that help us. Ok what
progress have we made, you know, to know the progress
we've made, what benefit have we gotten from that progress? So,
(20:12):
because I've beeneve that everybody likes to everybody likes progress,
but everybody can like progress that they can measure and
see its impact. Yeah, So this of the key challenges
that we've seen with gender related policies in the country.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Thank you, Thank you so much, Ken you for that.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
So the last question, I know, if you like, going
back to as far back as twenty eighteen, I had
advocated for you know, we're talking about the Childbride Acts
and all of all that, and while I was at
the parliaments, as was plament, I had spoken to them
about the fact that I didn't see it being okay
(20:52):
with a ten year old child being eligible to be
married off, you know the bride. Yes, me ten year
old child did not have the eligibility to like vote
and all of all that.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
And it's interesting to.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Know that on the whole, like the whole panel, and
that's like everybody discussing the fate of like the African
and Andrean girl child, you know, the child bright issue
and all of all that, there was not even one woman,
you know, to decide the fate of like the So
it kind of like showed poorer representation.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
But I think it is interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
You know, these days we're seeing more women you know,
being represented, you know, even in the House of Representatives
you know, and people like you that are experts like
this field, you know, talking about it and all of
all that.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
I think it's it's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
And somehow, yes, the success or the progress may be slogo,
I guess progress is progress. Yeah, So how is the
Police Innovation Center working with some policymakers to accelerate the
inclusive economic policies engine.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
Thank you so much you and they're well done also
for the work you're doing in this ecosystem.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
So yes, the Policy Innovation Center, we really are.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
So this is our hearts as part of our approaches,
we use gender transformative approaches as well as liver.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Or insight approaches.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
So when it comes to how we're able as strategy
to ensuring that engaging policy makers, you know, to accelerate
gender inclusive related policies. One of the things that we
do is that we provide technical support and relating to
policy evement. So for example, we are presently providing technical
support for the domestication implementation of the Women's Economic Empowerment
(22:48):
Policy in Legal State and what is basically we're supporting
them to develop a policy and a roadmap as well
as coming up with strategies helping them in terms of
engaging the critical stakeholders on how to ensure that this
policy does not just die after it's been developed but
is working. We've also, for who supported the Ductate government
(23:12):
helped integrate gender and social inclusions to do digital policy
just to ensure that no one is left behind in
this digital transformation ECIT. So these are things that we've
done around that technical support technical around the technical support
we have provided. Also we have the Gender and Inclusion
(23:33):
which is one of the largest export, the largest platform
and gender and inclusion in the country. And what we've
done is that we ensure that we engage policy makers
as well as other stakeholders you know, reading from private
sector leaders, development partners, you know, to just go start
gender responsive discussion around governance and economic And how we
(23:55):
do this is that we ensure that we have policy
a lots you know, issues around studies, knowledge sharing, spression
to ensure that you know, to support the governments in
providing the knowledge to help them makeing from policies as
well around gender. Another thing that we do well and
(24:15):
so far we've trained close to four hundred participants, is
that we understand that while you may have a very
good policy, if they're issues around and capacity gaps, you
can't really drive this policy. So we want a gender
on course right now. And so far we've been in
supported befriend government agency in driving this. For example, we support.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
Training in temper of gender.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
I think kind of states primary healthcare development even with
you know, in just trying to or help them understand
how can help they can be more gender inclusive in
their operations as well. The capacity building is something we
have provided in our relation filmakers and of course evidence
generation you know, which were very big. We're ensured that
(25:06):
we make evidence available so that poor filmmakers can.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Can make sportant helping them make.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
More informed decisions while they're doing great works while we
have while where we have the when evidence is available,
they can even make bater informed decisions. And that was
what we were able to so the work we do
together with the ENNS through whereby we were able to
do the gender analysis of the mining set.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
For which was very very very useful information.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
And we're very glad now that I know the mining
sector have developed the Stray gender strategy and for that
for that equo difference. So yeah, so are some of
the things that we do, you know, to ensure that
policymakers can do the great work they're already doing, but
even doing it better and more seamlessly.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Bearing so so our thirt speaker and candigiat I would
like to know what like the next We understand already
that legal frameworks are essential for gender quality.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
So can you.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Enlighten us on how the National Consenter is advocating for
policy and legislative reforms to accelerate progress for women in
a nigineer. Okay, thank you Yo and day, and thank
you to all the previous speakers was really insightful listening
to you. So at the National Concenter, we work on
(26:36):
legislative framework and regulatory policies. We understand the importance of
the importance of gender equality and equity in our work,
specifically because this framework we already have, like some framework
just like permitted that provide for this equality. The only
(27:00):
problem we have, or the major problem we have, is implementation.
So the foundational law in Nigeria, for example, the Constitution
already provided for equality under the Human Rights Provisions. Everybody
have the right to life, to know discrimination based on gender,
(27:24):
based on sex. So but at the same time, when
it comes to implementation, there's been a challenge. We have
the Child Right Acts that is still yet to be
implemented a Court of State. We have the Violence Against
Persons Prevention Act is still yet to be implemented at
(27:45):
Court of State. So at the National Consenter we are
playing an active role in first proposing legislations that go
into addressing this gender gap. Second also supporting the implementation
of this legis and this was what led to the
establishment of our State Assembly Business Environmental Table because we
(28:06):
wanted to go beyond what was happening on the national stage.
We wanted to go to the point where we also
support the subnational implementing these laws, in domesticating these laws
and in having like an ammonized provision that protects everybody
at all level of government.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
And toddly, we also.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Support the monitoring and evolution of both the national laws
and the international treaties. We've been part of conversation around
table discussion and even engagements that tend to.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Where we assessed.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Participation ornaja's level of progress when it comes to implementing
bilateral treaties and international treaties that provide for the right
of women and children. So recently were part of an
engagement on assessing the level of implementation of the More
Protocol in Nigeria. So these are some of the things
we are doing that in order to ensure that legislations
(29:05):
and policies are gender sensitive in the sense that it
takes into constitution gender and equity in the process of it.
We also pay attention to female participation in governance. For example,
we were recently part of a gender strategy and Policy
(29:27):
review for the National Assembly in which we're looking at
the role of like the importance of free male being
part of the National Assembly being part of the legislative
body at all levels. So this are some of the
things that we do supporting national and states legislations to
ensure that laws that are pasted are paying attention that
(29:50):
there are laws that have taken into constitution different gender,
gender equality, gender equity, and the need for women participation
in all level of government in order to promote economic development.
Thank you so much for the comprehensive response, Contigua. So
(30:13):
to my second question, because you know, you had mentioned challenges,
particularly with like implementation and all of all that, and
some would argue that usually when they are challenges, those
challenges can be seen as opportunities, you know, because it
kind of like, you know, their gap, so it's it's
like indicating, Okay, there's a gap here, so there's an
(30:33):
opportunity to fill that gap. So with that in mind,
what legal and institutional barriers would you say still hinder
gender equity and what steps should be taken to overcome them.
That's your own opinion, now, thank you, Thank you so much,
and that's a very great question. So, yes, there are
(30:53):
still legal and institutional barriers, and to start with it,
I would say that the first is a wicked for
me of these gender laws. So we have a lot
of okay sees that go on on the national level.
These laws have passed, but when it comes to implementation
of this law, there's like there's there's no momentum to
implement it as much as they want to pass it.
(31:16):
So we have laws that are already in existence, we
have human human rights, gender rights that have been acknowledged
by legislation, but when it comes to implementation, there's a
very weak enforcement of the gender laws. So this is
one of the biggest challenge that we are having when
it comes to gender policy and gender legislations and Nigeria.
(31:39):
I think also the conflicting legal system can also pose
as a challenge.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
So you would understand that and you are on like
a multiple legal system.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
There's a customary law, there are religious law, there's a
national common law. So because that people tend to it
tends to be difficult to or to implement the statutory
laws in a situation where there are still constitutions to
religious provision, custumery provision. So even in the process of
(32:10):
implementing their challenges like oh that is how it is
done in our culture or this is the religious provision.
So you're saying that eighteen years is the legal age
for consent to marry, and somebody is saying no, but
in my religion, you can do it this way.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
So and as a result.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I think that leads me to myself to my third challenge,
which is that because these lawmakers or the implementers are
majorly politicians, the ride on people's people's validation of what
they do. They're usually very careful not to offend, so
like there's a there's a there's a challenge that you
(32:48):
don't want to offend institution so that it doesn't politically
go against you. So a lot of times when people
want to implement, you see pressure. So you see like
there's a lot of pressure from failureus side, and as
a result, you just see that there's low implementation. So
these are like some of them. These are like some
(33:09):
of the challenge that we've had. Like there's also like
under representation in politics, because when we talk about whether
these laws we represent women or not, we need to
even think about whether women are even on this table
where these laws have been deliberated or where these policies
have been deliveated, you can expect somebody to represent you
(33:32):
in your absence. So not until women are feeling represented
in politics, there will always be a challenge as to
their inclusion in these policies and legislation. There's the issue
of economic resources, definitely, and the issue of economic resources
is a is a product of the gaps. If women
have limited access to education, if women have limited if
(33:55):
women are meant to met to marrige so early, definitely
to lead to a gaping economic resource advocation because they
don't have the freedom and the opportunities that their male
counterparts have. So definitely there will be that challenge. So, yes,
these are some of the challenges are caney be fixed. Definitely,
is to accelerate the legal reforms, Like we need to
(34:18):
go beyond oh the past this laws, Yes, we celebrate
that it has been passed, but we need to go
beyond person We need to hold government accountable for implementation
of laws. So when we are assisting in designing policies,
when we are assisting in designing laws, it goes beyond
just getting their laws past. The aim of it at
(34:40):
the end of the day is to see that law
make an impact in the society, and it can't make
an impact from the shelf of the library.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
It has to be implemented.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
So yes, we need to get acceleerate legal reforms that
implement these laws, domesticate these international treaties that we've signed
plenty ofties that I would say, oh, we promote women's women's writing,
and yeah, we need to domesticate it and actually implement.
There's also a need to strengthen institution our capacity, and
I think that's one of the repressive things that keep
(35:09):
mentioned that PIC was doing, because it is important to
have capacity building that actually goes into Everybody needs to
understand their role in promoting gender equity. So it's important
that we drive this inclusive approach to it. Let everybody
play a part in it. Let us support both the
(35:31):
national and stop national in implementing it, and let us
actually push for laws mandating with the cognition of women
and actually implementing those laws. So those are the few
solutions that I think we can adopt solve this time.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Thank you, Thank you so much. Crategize.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Interesting that you went back to what I had spoken
earlier when I was talking about the child's Ride build
and all of all that, and then female representation basically
and all of all that. So another for us to
actually get that change. What I'm getting from is we
have to equally have men having these conversations or them
equally being in the room, have women there's a female
(36:09):
representation as well, them equally being in the role.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
And seeing how first to resolve these issues. Thank you
so much for that very valuable insights.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
So if you were to take home, if we were
to take home one line today, what would they be? Okay,
So I think my take home line would be that
whenever we are working on whatever we're asked to work
in the for gender equality, we should understand that we're
(36:40):
not just doing this for ourselves.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
We're doing it for generation to come, like our perish.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
So whatever laws we are passing now, whatever laws really
maintain now, they're like, we're doing it for people that
are coming being So it's important that we understand that
the fact that we can move freely toly are due
to it's due to the fight of some people in
(37:08):
the past who have actually fought.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
From what we are now enjoying today.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
So we most deliberate about making sure that we are
also driving more extension and laws that goes to ensure
that people the more like the more we hate, the
more there is freedom for women. There is economic inclusion
for women. So we should be elevated about making each
other within things that generations to come with the croud
(37:34):
of what we've.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Done, Yes and enjoy. Yes, Thank you so much. It's nice.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
It's interesting that you mentioned that because you know, we
had earlier stated something around them being an intentional you know, intentionality.
So you all the decisions we're making, we have to
have it at the back of our minds that we
are making these decisions for the greater good of the generations,
evenly yet.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
On bond you know and all of other.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Thank you so much so and telling to you what
would you want us to take home today? Just the
one line, like just one line that you really want
to be stuck.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
In like our hearts today. Thank you.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
Okay, so we need to address limiting jinger notes.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
I'll just stop, all right, all.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Right, So thank you so much, all us speakers. It
has been a truly valuable and insightful discussion, you know,
around the gender agrety and the new accelerating action and
all of other. Thank you so much for your time,
you know, Thank you so much for like your well
of wisdom which you have basically drank from you know today,
(38:45):
So thanks for joining us on this special episode, and
on that note, to listen to previous episodes, please visit
nextgroup dot org slash podcast.
Speaker 3 (38:55):
Thank you so much and do have a splendid day. Bye.
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