June 4, 2025 • 48 mins
This World Environment Day 2025, we’re confronting a growing crisis. Plastic waste is choking our cities, polluting our waters, and threatening public health. To mark the 2025 campaign themed “Ending Plastic Pollution”, the Nigerian Economic Summit Group (NESG) brings you a special podcast episode featuring a powerful conversation on solutions for Nigeria. Engr. Nyananso Ekanem and Dr. Femi Idowu-Adegoke unpack the scale of the problem and explore bold strategies for change — from policy to innovation — in a session moderated by Stephen Daniel.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everyone, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, depending on
where you're tuning in from this very day. Welcome to
another episode of radio podcast. Today we shall be looking
at the topic unwrapping the plastic problem Pathways to end
in plastic pollution in Nigeria. Plastic pollution is one of
the most present environmental challenges of our time. Every year,
(00:26):
over four hundred million terms of plastic produced globally, with
a significant portion ending up in landfills, rivers and oceans,
which continue to ham wildlife, contaminating food systems, and contributed
to climate change. In Nigeria, plastic waste it's a visible
and brain problem, particularly in urban centers where inadequate withe
management systems as that's a date pollution. This twenty twenty
(00:50):
five World Environmental Day Team Ending Plastic Pollution aims to
raise global awareness about the handful impacts of plastics on ecosystems, health,
and the climates. It seeks to drive policy reforms, promote
sustainable alternatives and hood producers accountable through measures like a
standard producer responsibility. The team also encourages innovation in recycling
(01:13):
and cycular economic practice, while empowering individuals and communities to
release the plastic footprints. Ultimately, the twenty twenty five Initiative
calls for collective action from governments, businesses and citizens to
eliminate plastic pollution and protect the planet for future generation. Today,
I'm so privileged to have two distinguished panelists with us
(01:37):
and I would serve as a resource person on this
podcast this morning. Please join me to welcome Engineer Yena
so Gabriel ecinem who is the lead Water and Sanitation
to Matic Group Infrastructure and Allied Services Policy Commission, and
doctor Fermi Idowu, a degoke, a member of the NSG
Special Tax Force on Climate Change. Into an economic is
(02:00):
an experienced business executive with a strategic planning and management
expertise developed in the private sector, public sector, and you
know he also has approving organizational project management capability in
the construction, utility, consulting and development industry. He has good
understanding of policy, regulatory, institutional and operational issues in water
(02:21):
and infrastructure in emerging markets and developing Economists Economists is
a member of the technical Advisory Board at Opperation Water
and an associate at the Partnerian Initiative. You're welcome Engineer.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Gilbra Thank you for having me on the core.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
We also have doctor Fermi iDog Okay who is a
Special Assistant on one Health to the Honorable Minister of
State for Health and Social Welffare. He leverages this extensive
experience and environmental sustainability and waste management to contribute to
policy making and implementation. He's also the co founder and
executive director of eco view does Environmental Technology Limit, where
(03:00):
he designs, plans and manages operations of waste treatment facilities
recovering valuable resources from municipal solid waste. Additionally, it serves
as the president of Legals Recyclers Assitiation, advocating for sustainable
practices and collaboration amongst stakeholders in the recycling industry. His
educational background includes a master's degree in Environmental and Heard
(03:21):
Resource Management from Kingston University and a professional course in
Environmental waste Treatment Technology from Cranfield University. He also holds
certifications from the Chartered Institutes of Waste Management and the
Energy Institute, demonstrating his commitments to continuous learning and professional development. Welcome,
doctor Fermy.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Good morning, and thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Well, then soon we'll just jump right into the conversation
and let me start with engineer ecaem Indida Economy in
what ways this Nigeria's plastic pollution issues a governess and
institutional failure beyond just just waste management.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Thank you very much, Stevens.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I think I think that for Manginierriste management in general,
solid solid waste has been a challenge and the government
on its own path has done quite a lot in
terms of resolving waste pollution in the country, in terms
(04:22):
of policy development, in terms of laws and also having
the right institutions in place. We have done quite well
on that side. However, the challenge is implementing these policies
and laws and also institutions playing their their role. So
for instance, we have recognitions and regulatory authorities that are
(04:45):
in place that should actually you know, resolve plastic waste
in the environment, you know, reducing plastic waste.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
But what we've seen, particularly at.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
The subnational is that we havetions are set up to
reduce waste and solid waste the environment, but these incentives
don't match, you know, the mandate. For instance, most sub
national state governments where they have environmental protection agencies, the
target has always been revenue generations. Against reducing plastic waste.
(05:24):
And so if the environmental protection authorities are focused on
reducing plastic waste, bringing up innovation, creating awareness and creating
the right incentives for people to make sure that behavioral
change comes to play by ensuring they reduce plastic waste
(05:46):
in the environment, then that help. However, we see that
environmental position agencies are focused on getting payment from from
households and the payments has become the incentive, and so
the target is raising how much you made last year
(06:07):
to be more than this Decias made should raised more
this year than what she raised last year, and so
the incentive is mismatched. Is a mismatching the incentive because
the regulative authority should rather focus on reducing wasting the
environment than generating revenue. Also, investment at the sub national
(06:28):
is not matching the problem. Investment in terms of creating
awareness creating the right infrastructure that can recycle or manage
waste effectively is not there, and so subnational governments should
focus on ensuring that the right infrastructure is in place.
(06:49):
That way waste authorities, either those collecting or those regulating,
will have the right to work with.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
And also the right environment I could effectively.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Jam It's quite interesting that you noted the mandate of
this MDS not marching implementation. And my next question will
be how does plastic pollution intersect with national development priorities
such as health, urban infrastructure and gen job creation. If
you could torture that.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
A bit, absolutely so, so there's a there's a there's
a connect between plastic pollution and the development in the country.
So so so when you're planning a city or when
you're planning in the community, there has to be a
deliberate action for you to look at waste management in
(07:44):
that community. So for instance, we see city development where
you have the planning authorities coming to build roads and
build drainage. However, where is that drainage emptying into that's
one then too there has to be the very deliberate
action of ensuring that the people that use or by
(08:08):
an infrastructure will know the right places to dispose of
their waste. So when you're planning the city, there has
to be a clear institutional infrastructure that will support the
physical infrastructure to be effective to supply the services that
have been built for And in terms of health, I
(08:29):
mean look at flooding. The impact of flooding in any environment.
So for instance, you see legals, you know, when you
go to maybe Lucky or maybe some parts of a
budja presently where within one hour rainfall you see some
places heavily flooded. And with flooding comes the heavy pollution.
(08:51):
Beyond plastic, you are pollution from you know, septic hands
and you have you know, the city getting very very
dirty and rodents now have to move to other places
where they can cause more impact. And so with flooding
there's a huge impact on your health and that that
would increase the issues in terms of illnesses in the environment. Secondly,
(09:17):
in terms of job creation, we saw the last the
last big flooding. I think there was a heavy one
last year as well, but the biggest one was where
most farms across the country were flooded and jobs were
lost because a lot of these companies had to shut
down a supplied those in their growth sector had to
shut down because their crops were totally destroyed, and so
(09:41):
that impacted jobs significantly for industries as well. Where you
have heavy flooding, you see that industries can operate effectively
and so there's a huge impact on job creation and
that impact negatively.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
In the economy of the economy of country. How However,
on the other hand, if we.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Manage plastic waste effectively, we can actually create jobs. That
means we can create jobs that can collect plastic, recycled plastic,
up cycle plastic, and that can create value. And when
plastic waste is taken out of the environment, then the
flooding can be reduced. And so you're having you know,
(10:23):
benefits from both sides. One reducing the waste in the environment,
we reduce the flooding, but also using the waste and
up cycling will also create jobs and create value for
the use and the populace of the country.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Thank you, Thank you very much, And let me not
come to you doctor Fermey. I know you are very
fast with the Standard Producer Responsibility Framework. What policy is
alignments currently hinder the effective implementation of this framework and
engineer from your own perspective.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Okay, thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
I said there is policy misalignment were an implementation of
our EPR, and one of it is the constraint of
overlapping mandates among various agencies, inconsistent regulation across the subnational
states and then also there is absence of clear compliance
(11:23):
mechanism in Nigeria epr UP until recently, I know there
is work on going to make it mandatory. Has been
voluntary and when you make something voluntary, it's it's if
I wish. So nothing is compelling me to actually do
(11:47):
what I'm supposed to do as an extended producer responsibility.
So also there's lack of economic incentives O penalties for
producers who want them is the imporcement and that would
make me to say that our enforcement when it comes
to such policies also are very weak as mentioned by Engineer,
(12:13):
So current policies don't align with broader industrial or environmental strategies,
which is causing the fragmented execution.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Quite interesting that you mentioned the fragmented nature of implementation
of this framework in Nigeria. And you know, giving Nigeria's
federal structure, what rules would you say states and local
government play and achieving nationalwide results on this plastic waste redurtion.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, yes, thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
And this is one of the things that as an
industry player, as a top leader in the secular economy
and waste management sectory that year There's something I've been
talking for years now, I have been championing for years.
As said earlier, we are fragmented execution. So the states. Ideally,
(13:09):
the role of the states should be to enact and
enforce localized with lawte laws in which management laws while
local government most trending the waste collection systems and community awareness. Therefore,
we're decentralizing planning supported by the federal funding or any
(13:30):
technical guidance, because right now most states are runing which
management collection and disposal at state level. Now you find
out that the local government is closer to the point
of generation and to the people, to the community are
(13:52):
not part of the exercise.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And ideally, effective collection should.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
Be by the local authority, which is local government in
our case, and that should feed to the states. But
in this case, the state is the one doing the collection,
is the one enforcing the laws.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Sometimes the states are.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Even participating in doing the business of recycling instead of
so you're they're like, now enforcing what you're doing. You know,
you're supposed to be a regulator and then and then
I player. So this is these are the fragmented execution
(14:34):
that I see and as said but.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Can earlier it's not for lack of policies. It's not
for lack of.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Regulations, but the implementation in the rights manner of following
the right strategies. And we need to look inward, like
I always say every time, we need to look in
world and enable context specific solutions. You know, we need
to integrate the state environmental agencies and the traditional institutions
(15:07):
that can enhance the grassroots impact for to solve these
our fragmented policy implementation and execution.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Thank you, Thank you very much, doctor, family. Let me
come back to you engineering can. The family just mentioned
the role of the state and local government, but then
engineer can, how can we create an economic case for
plastic polution mitigation to attract private capital into cycling and
circular economic solutions.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Okay, So, so just to emphasize that plastic waste, it
is called waste because of its location. So it's basically
value in the wrong place, right, So if we can
move that value to the right place, it becomes an
economic case. It means there's a business opportunity. So for instance,
(16:04):
we've recently a recent project we were part of looked
at all their cregators across the country and we noticed
that a lot of people are making really good money
from agregating plastic and exporting them. Now exporting them what
I did, I mean those bays they're exporting them to.
(16:25):
What are they're using those plastics for basically recycled in
them and we buy them back in the country for
packaging and the rest. And so if we can create
the right environment for that plastic not to be waste
but value, then there's a business case for businesses. Recently,
we had a project just last year where we also
(16:45):
taught some recycling facilities and we've seen that it's really
possible for you to recycle plastic and also possibly upcycled
plastic and we can still use them in an environment
become value. And so there's a good business is for
you know, plastic pollution and businesses coming in to invest
(17:06):
can really make money and that.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Can reduce pollution in the environment.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Now, looking at what's going on in legers and some
part of a budget.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Where we've seen you know, some some.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Recyclers, you know, bringing in technology to to actually create
better value. We've seen where there's what they call ATM,
like the plastic based ATM. We've visited their facility and
we can see that that can really be expanded across
the country. That is for the collection side, and the
(17:41):
entrepreneur has also made it very clear that there's a
clear chain that links the recycling side, so when they
collected in technology, they can also link with the recyclers
to recycle the plastics within Nigeria, and.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So we can see industries bringing up.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
But I think the best way to ensure that this
can be expanded across the country and create value for
the youth the increasing population of use we have in
the country is for the government to put in place the.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Right structures that can support these businesses.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
So for instance, having the right infrastructure that can segregate
waste effectively. One of these studies we carried out showed
that most of the plastics that get to the term side,
extracting them become very difficult. So that's why I see scavengers,
you know, roaming around trying to pick out plastics. But
(18:35):
in the right infrastructure in place that can segregate wastes,
you can actually separate plastics very very easily and businesses
can target buying these plastics for their upcycling or recycling processes.
So governments should could in place the right incentives, the
right infrastructure, and ensure that regulation is effective to make
(18:57):
sure that businesses that are investing in this environment and
not over regulated. But also they are not competing against
government as was referred to by doctor Fermi, because if
you're competing against government as a business, then does stand
the chance.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So government should ensure that.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
You need businesses business for business operators or entrepreneurs to
run and focus on regulation policy and ensuring you know,
the environment is right for investment.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Thank you very much for making a business case for
plastic seeing it as an opportunity for business and not
just pollution. Doctor family. You had mentioned previously that there's
a lack of sanction to forks to you know, implement
this policy. In your view, what metrics or indicators would
you recommend for in National Plastic Pollution Performance call or
(19:48):
dashboard so that we keep these people on their tour
about federal, state and local government level.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Okay, thank you very much. So there's what I work
in my head. All the national plastic pollutions cocured. You know,
they are supposed to be some metrics for example, plastic
west generated by capital recycling rates formal and informal sectors
and then the leakage into water bodies. Also the EPR
(20:18):
Extended Producers Responsibility compliance with for example, the Food and
Beverage Recycling Alliance.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I think the members.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Are over forty now, but I can tell you food
and beverage manufacturers and producers who uses these packaging materials
in the country, they are well over one thousand. And
if it's only few about forty. The less than fifty
as at the last count, are the one contributing to
(20:49):
en hands entrepreneurs. Collection rates and aggregation and clean ups
and all of that is never going to be enough
because it's voluntary, like I said earlieron, so there has
to be a mandatory compliance and that compliance rate.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Also we lead.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
To incentives or rewards for businesses or companies manufacturers who
participate well. Also investment in secular economic initiatives. In Nigeria,
we have a lot of young entrepreneurs doing wonderfully well
(21:29):
as mentioned, and I would say I'm young. I started
back in Nigeria some thirteen years ago in the plastic
and ger waste management recycling and I've seen the industry
truly private sector driven.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I've seen it emerge in the last. They're almost a
decade and.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
A half and we're not where we want, where we
should be. But we're not where we used to be.
But we can do more. And that's why I'm recommending this.
Nigeria has a national Circular Economic Framework. I know it's
being worked on, and like every other thing, we're too
slow in implementing these tops in Nigeria. And I believe
(22:15):
the right investments, the right engagement needs to scale up
the circular economic initiatives. A lot of our young people,
a lot of our entrepreneurs, they're doing great things, but
like you said, they just need the right infrastructure, the
right environment, the right support to scale up and to expand.
(22:37):
The industry is a huge, multi billion dollar industry that
we are not even scratching this office yet. I can
tell you that this is an industry I've been for
the past twenty four years, so I've worked in England
before comming to so I know I is an industry
I know very well, and I know that so number
(22:58):
of eco friendly enterprise is should be supported. There has
to be support. There has to be something that we
want to make people tweak their system, people that want
to make people real twine their production line, to be
more eco friendly, to be more environmentally friendly, to be
more secular in its operation and manufacturing.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
So you mentioned you mentioned that sorry to call to
you doctor form. You mentioned that they're only forty registered
member of the Beverage Association, whereas they are over one
thousand people using this into production of this plastic. Do
we have a clear national baseline or data repository and
plastic generation? Use it a leakage points? If not, what's
(23:46):
stopping us from having social repository?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Okay? We we have.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
A national policy framework on APR and like I said.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
What is it's because it is started on the wrong food.
Let me say that way.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Yeah, it's good to be industry lad is an industry
lead a standard brouiser responsibility very good, But the enforcement
is made voluntary. And when you make something voluntary, people are.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Not binded to do it. You understand, there's nothing that
forces them to do it.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
So therefore, I would say that NAGIA lacks a comprehensive
and a unified baseline, you know, due to poor coordination
like I said earlier on between agencies and also the
informer sectors contributions are also under reported. So the EPR
(24:50):
needs to be first mandatory across board, especially for plastic manufacturers,
for the Food and Every Cycle Alliance for full food
and beverage manufacturers sorry not the alliance now manufacturers. It
is something that has to be tied to the annual
(25:11):
licensing annual or even at registration. You must have an
undertaking that the agencies at the national level like NASIA
National Environmental Standard Regulated Agency or the agency at state level,
you can hold those companies responsible to So for me,
(25:36):
it's when we begin to do that compressive baseline that
will make this national that will give us the national
repository that.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
We are actually require or need as well as here.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, thank you very much, doctor Feminomy. Come back to you, engineer.
How can civil societies and you know resoarch tituditions like
the Nigerian Economics on groups support governments and strengthening data
systems for tracking plastic pollution?
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Okay, so, so on a recent on a recent project.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Where we work with some.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Universities, we realize that there's depth of knowledge and research
that has been done on plastic waste management. However, all
the research outcomes to many of the universities and so
there's a strugg linkage between the universities and government and business.
(26:42):
Then we can start seeing how businesses can take advantage
of research data to put in place systems that can
reduce plastic waste pollution. The government as well can also
use research data to to define policies that can help
reduce plastic waste to tracking waste position.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
But let's come to the fact that entities like the NASG.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Or recess across the country and not the locations or
the people that are basically contribute to plastic waste in
the in the environment. These entities, most of them have
you know, structures or infrastructure in place that they can
dispose waste effectively and and and the waste moves through
(27:35):
government structures to maybe dumb sides or where they are recycled. However,
where waste is generated mostly and we're waste is disposed
of indisciplinedly and not responsibly at the locations, we need
to focus on how do you collect data from such
(27:55):
locations And and that's where research, you know, using research
to shows and the NYAS this capacity to mobilize, engage
and and create that critical mass of informed citizens to
to actually take personal responsibility can coming so the n
(28:17):
E SG on this on one hand, can help mobilize
the right institutions, the right private sector interest and the
right individuals that can look into creating awareness either in
the subnational apnational level, but also creating the right proposals
(28:39):
of the government in terms of policy review. Then the
research instutions can carry out research on effective tracking systems.
There is one who seeming legals as quite interesting where
you can use your mobile phone, go on an application
and basically.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Weigh your waste before you dispose.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And if you wear your waste and is ready for
the market, someone can actually indicating tests to buy from you,
and so we search in the application.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
In place, you.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Can easily track the plastic you know, in the environment
that will naturally not become waste, will become value because
someone will take it off you before it becomes waste.
And so such systems in place can track the level
of wasste generated, but also how much of it has
(29:33):
gone to the environment and how much of it can
be recycled or has been recycled or upcycled. So first,
any SG most deliberately you know, put in place you know,
mobilize its members to ensure the awareness is created.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Within all the sectors of the economy.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Research institutions can also help with ensuring that all the
research carried out universities and high institutions can be applied
or can be put to use either by government or
the private sector, and these can help improve reduction of
plastic waste in the environment.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Thank you, Thank you very much, and let me come
back to you, doctor Fermi. You've mentioned that we need
to do something for manufacturers and incentivize them in practical terms. Now,
how can we better incentivize this local manufacturers so I
dropped by degradable or reusable packaging and skill we are
driving up the cost for consumers.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Okay, thank you very much. In incentifying incentivizing.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
By degradable and usable packaging, I will advocate that subsidies
on biopackaging technology, tax holidays for green manufacturers, public procurement
preferences also can help, and regularly frameworks should reward low
(31:03):
impact packaging through certifications.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I think I mentioned that are also incascinated.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
And also for MSMEs, shared infrastructure models can also reduce
the VIAD costs for their production using these about.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
A greble or usable packaging and we we've.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Seen we've mentioned we can over emphasize what our entrepreneurs
are doing using used plastics, used materials, even textile waste
and they're using them for packaging or starts and they
(31:48):
are creating usable materials. Also, we have entrepreneurs who are
using about greble materials to creates alternatives for plastics. I'll
just mentioned there is a young man who is using
coconuts pod to create plates and cups, just like they
(32:12):
do with bamboo in China and the other part of
the world. In Nigeria, someone is doing that, but it's
still at a small scale. So we can give subsidies
on biopackaging technology. Such a person can expand and can
scale and can even bring more investment into that sector.
(32:34):
Tax holidays for grain manufacturers also will give. And then
if the public sector begins to procure such our items
produced locally and advertise it, give it good awareness, creation,
(32:56):
good course for Nigerian's it's locally made. And also it's
going to solve industrial problem. It's going to create jobs
and at the same time it's going to solve environmental problem.
It's going to solve pollution problem. At the same time,
we're going to solve health problem. As mentioned earlier on
because when you have insistant flooding, it leads to health issues,
(33:19):
it leads to financial damage as well. So I believe
if we begin to give the right incentives for about
by and usable packaging, it will go a long way
to help solve.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
The issue of plastic pollution.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Let me let me stay with you and ask this
this for the question, because you're a secular economy aspect,
how do we transition from pilot projects into secular in
this secularity to full scale industry adoption. What's in your
view and levers that can drive this shift?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Well, you know, as I said, eleround the country.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
In Nigeria, we have the National Circular Economy Roadmap that
was launched last year.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So in scaling circular economy.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Beyond pilots, we must mandate secularity standard in industry regulations.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
It has to be mandatory. We must offer physcal.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Incentives such as import duty waivers on recycling or secular
economy equipment. We must establish work cable place onderline what
I mean work cable public private partnership for waste infrastructure.
(34:41):
We must strengthen demand through consumer campaigns and green product
labeling like I mentioned, So it's.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
When we do these things that it gives the.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Pilot projects can be killed up, there will be need
for there's need for investment, and investors will be interested
because there is investment security, there is incentives for their investments,
and then the long term benefit for both social, economic
(35:21):
and environmental, which I believe those are the ways to
go if we're looking at scanning circular economy beyond the
pile of projects.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
From what the heir you say, there's a lots of
behavioral changes that need to happen to make this shift
for Nigeria occur. Engineer economy, what role would you say,
considering that the family has mentioned some behavior shift required,
what role would you say schools and curriculum reform will
play and it's still in circular economic values from any
(35:55):
childhood engineer academy.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Sure, I mean, it's it's quite interesting that you know,
individual behavior comes to play very significantly in terms of
plastic pollution because at some locations were we've seen you
may have the infrastructure in place or waste disposal, however,
(36:21):
you know in discipline, you know leads to where people
still dispose waste in the very wrong way, not using
the assets or infrastructure to the place, and so that
early early stage education and early stage awareness creation is
quite important.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
And so if you can use these schools.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Maybe starting from primary school to secondary schools where we
have I think some schools have clubs now that are
called environmental clubs. Within those clubs, you can still the
value of being disciplined in terms of managing waste effectively.
Then when they start, when they can start growing from
primary to secondary, they already know that are set in
(37:05):
place that I can dispose of waste effectively, but also
plastic can be of very good value. Now putting that
into curriculum is also very possible. I know that there's
civic education at the primary and secondary level. Within the
civic education curriculum, waste management can be put as part
(37:25):
of the models and so that students can start learning
at that very young age that it is more important
to be disciplined to dispose of waste effectively, because there's
a huge negative impact for even the same individual, direct
negative impact if you don't do if you don't dispose
waste in a very good manner. That way, as the
(37:48):
students grow to become youth, maybe in the universities they
can start looking at research, they can start looking at
technology application to better manage.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
In plastic waste.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
So for curriculum, we can include waste management as part
of civic education, but also with the clubs and the
environmental clubs in schools, those can also help a lot
to create awareness and inform and inculcate habits of you know,
(38:23):
better waste disposal in the young children before they become even.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Youth to be effective in society.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And interestingly, you know, just going back to what doctor
Fernie was saying about, you know, government creating the right environment,
I think that we can explore the application of technology
as well. You know, government can create the right environment
as well, not just for producers or manufacturers, but for
(38:52):
youth to bring in their you know, you know knowledge
innovation in one tracking waste and two disclosing of waste.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
We've seen where you know, very young people.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Have created applications that have been very effective. And so
beyond focusing on the manufacturers or the producers, we can
look at where innovation can be used to to create
opportunities for waste cycling or waste management in the country.
And so that's what government can also focus on, you know,
(39:27):
creating the environment for young people to express themselves by
being bringing in innovation and bringing in the use of technology.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Thank you interesting, Thank you for mentioning the youth. Indeed,
young people have a role to play even as the
land from mandy childhood and pollution reduction because femininely come
back to you in your twenty four years of you know,
experience in the secular economy and especially outside of Nigeria.
What lessons can Nigeria adopt from countries that have you know,
(39:56):
successfully tackled single use plastic through regulation and your change
from your experience.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
Okay, before I dwell there, I just think I should
mention in support of what Engineering Academy is said Naginia.
You are not found one thing in innovating ideas and
I would just mention there are three waste management or recycling.
There are more than three, but I would just mention
three of them. Two of them I know are domicile
(40:24):
in Legos and there's one in protact Court. The one
in protacouse is called trash coin. So where people are
getting incentivized for bringing their recycl labels and using the
ALP the application from the comfort of their home to
engage recyclers or collectors and greetors to pick and they
get paid or get the incentives for their recycl labels.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Was done by young Nigelian.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
Also we have in Legos Packram and we have Junkyard.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Also in Legos.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
Like I said Elero, the government we need to have
a work cable public private partnership to begin to use
these innovations at either local government level, at state level,
at national level. We need that. So back to your
question the linkages or what are we supposed to look
(41:20):
at as a cognation. Nigeria can adopt faced bands. You
know Legosi is banning singles plastic, no problem about it,
singles plastics that are no usable.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Non recyc levels. But it should be in phased because
people are being used to this way.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
So people need to know why. You need to educate people.
You need to create awareness. You need to give them
the right incentives to be able to look at them
and understand why you're adopting they based band. Also, we
need to build a public private consensus and then prioritize
(42:00):
beaver a change.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
And I would give an example.
Speaker 5 (42:02):
I think it was in two thousand and one two
thousand and two when I first found myself and they
waste my innes sector in the United Kingdom and that
was when a borough I worked for.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Then we're changing their waste collection system.
Speaker 5 (42:14):
The first thing we had to do was to go
door knocking, go house to house to knock at the
door within the community local government level. And that's why
I said earlier one waste collection should be at the
local government level. So because we know people in the
community knowing one another. And then we were engaged and
(42:36):
we were going door to door educating households, talking to
them about the new system that is coming, giving them
time to prepare. You use one being system now you
put all your waste in a bean and then the
government the collectors come to collect it. But it's going
(42:58):
to change. We have to explain to them why is
changing the award an European law. There's going to be
finding the United Kingdom for every doneage of recyclable waste
that goes to the landfill, and that if the United
Kingdom government is going to be paying that fine to
(43:20):
e you, then the United Government, the United States, the
United Kingdom government is going.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
To pass that to the people through the local authority.
Truly a cancil tax payment.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
And so if you don't want to pay more of
council tax because of the tax, the land field tax
that is got the state of the government is going
to be paying.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
So this is why this local authority has gone this way.
We're going to be separating your waste.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
We're gonna get your recyclables in the bluebean and then
we're gonna get your non recyclable in the black bag
and then organic waste.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
The boudary is we now go in your green bean.
You know. So people like.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Two months, three months before they rollout of the new
waste collection system, we were already out there explaining to.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
People, educating people on the new thing that is coming.
Speaker 5 (44:21):
Also, we can learn from countries like Kenya Rwanda. They
succeeded through strong enforcement public education, like the way Legos
is going clear bands on single use plastics. Yesterday already
on the news that the single use plastic band that
is kicking up the Legos from July first is not
(44:43):
going to include the PLATEBAT two and the pure water
Sashi And we can all understand why because the rite
infrastructure for pipe bine.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Water is not even in place.
Speaker 5 (44:58):
So if you say are binding singles plastic and the
manufacturers or the bookers or Boto Water or Sashi Water
are still in the consultation and discussion over changing their
packaging material to about degreeable as we mentioned earlier on,
so he has to be a faced.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Process. We must have strong enforcement on.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
Clear bands or singleus plastics and then we can learn
from other countries like Kenya have done it successfully. It
didn't happen overnight. I can tell you that Kenya started
the major process to banish singles plastic in two thousand
and seven, two thousand and eight, but it did not
come to fusion until twenty seventeen. So we should not
(45:48):
just think we can do knee jack reaction. It has
to be an intentional process. He has to be a
deliberate attempt and we must carry every critical stakeholders along.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I wish, I wish we had more time, but we
are out of time, so I will give each other
panelists thirty seconds to give us their message on this
world environment to day. Engineering can all be a message
on this world environmental day.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Thank you. Seven.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, I really wish we had more time, but just
to on this call the fact that environment is critical
to our survival. We need to make sure that our
environment is sustainable and so all the actions we take.
Our inactions will impact us either positive or negatively. So
to sustain our livelihood, to sustain lives, and to ensure
(46:38):
that our generations yet bornd can also benefit from the environment,
we have less take it very seriously, less manage it safely,
and less manage it sustainably.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Very much, and you doctor Fermi, will be your message.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
Okay, I will say that which I agree with you,
but I will say that plastic pollution targets must be
integrated into national climate policies, our endsies, SGG reporting budgeting frameworks.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Also we must.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Have performance based financing, green bonds and climate funds can
be leveraged. And then Ministry of Finance and Planning most
outline environmental goals with piscal parities through a multisectoral planning.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Distinguish audience, you would agree with me that this has
been a very insightful conversation with wish we had more
time to you know, dig deeper into this conversation. But
thank you so much to my dear resource process in dinner, ECDEM,
thank you so much for your time and doctor family.
Thank you so much for your time to our audience listening.
Thank you so much for tuning in into this episode
of the podcast, so we come away next time again
(48:00):
up International Environmental Thank you, Bye bye
Speaker 3 (48:11):
M
Hello everyone, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, depending on
where you're tuning in from this very day. Welcome to
another episode of radio podcast. Today we shall be looking
at the topic unwrapping the plastic problem Pathways to end
in plastic pollution in Nigeria. Plastic pollution is one of
the most present environmental challenges of our time. Every year,
(00:26):
over four hundred million terms of plastic produced globally, with
a significant portion ending up in landfills, rivers and oceans,
which continue to ham wildlife, contaminating food systems, and contributed
to climate change. In Nigeria, plastic waste it's a visible
and brain problem, particularly in urban centers where inadequate withe
management systems as that's a date pollution. This twenty twenty
(00:50):
five World Environmental Day Team Ending Plastic Pollution aims to
raise global awareness about the handful impacts of plastics on ecosystems, health,
and the climates. It seeks to drive policy reforms, promote
sustainable alternatives and hood producers accountable through measures like a
standard producer responsibility. The team also encourages innovation in recycling
(01:13):
and cycular economic practice, while empowering individuals and communities to
release the plastic footprints. Ultimately, the twenty twenty five Initiative
calls for collective action from governments, businesses and citizens to
eliminate plastic pollution and protect the planet for future generation. Today,
I'm so privileged to have two distinguished panelists with us
(01:37):
and I would serve as a resource person on this
podcast this morning. Please join me to welcome Engineer Yena
so Gabriel ecinem who is the lead Water and Sanitation
to Matic Group Infrastructure and Allied Services Policy Commission, and
doctor Fermi Idowu, a degoke, a member of the NSG
Special Tax Force on Climate Change. Into an economic is
(02:00):
an experienced business executive with a strategic planning and management
expertise developed in the private sector, public sector, and you
know he also has approving organizational project management capability in
the construction, utility, consulting and development industry. He has good
understanding of policy, regulatory, institutional and operational issues in water
(02:21):
and infrastructure in emerging markets and developing Economists Economists is
a member of the technical Advisory Board at Opperation Water
and an associate at the Partnerian Initiative. You're welcome Engineer.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Gilbra Thank you for having me on the core.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
We also have doctor Fermi iDog Okay who is a
Special Assistant on one Health to the Honorable Minister of
State for Health and Social Welffare. He leverages this extensive
experience and environmental sustainability and waste management to contribute to
policy making and implementation. He's also the co founder and
executive director of eco view does Environmental Technology Limit, where
(03:00):
he designs, plans and manages operations of waste treatment facilities
recovering valuable resources from municipal solid waste. Additionally, it serves
as the president of Legals Recyclers Assitiation, advocating for sustainable
practices and collaboration amongst stakeholders in the recycling industry. His
educational background includes a master's degree in Environmental and Heard
(03:21):
Resource Management from Kingston University and a professional course in
Environmental waste Treatment Technology from Cranfield University. He also holds
certifications from the Chartered Institutes of Waste Management and the
Energy Institute, demonstrating his commitments to continuous learning and professional development. Welcome,
doctor Fermy.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Good morning, and thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Well, then soon we'll just jump right into the conversation
and let me start with engineer ecaem Indida Economy in
what ways this Nigeria's plastic pollution issues a governess and
institutional failure beyond just just waste management.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Thank you very much, Stevens.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I think I think that for Manginierriste management in general,
solid solid waste has been a challenge and the government
on its own path has done quite a lot in
terms of resolving waste pollution in the country, in terms
(04:22):
of policy development, in terms of laws and also having
the right institutions in place. We have done quite well
on that side. However, the challenge is implementing these policies
and laws and also institutions playing their their role. So
for instance, we have recognitions and regulatory authorities that are
(04:45):
in place that should actually you know, resolve plastic waste
in the environment, you know, reducing plastic waste.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
But what we've seen, particularly at.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
The subnational is that we havetions are set up to
reduce waste and solid waste the environment, but these incentives
don't match, you know, the mandate. For instance, most sub
national state governments where they have environmental protection agencies, the
target has always been revenue generations. Against reducing plastic waste.
(05:24):
And so if the environmental protection authorities are focused on
reducing plastic waste, bringing up innovation, creating awareness and creating
the right incentives for people to make sure that behavioral
change comes to play by ensuring they reduce plastic waste
(05:46):
in the environment, then that help. However, we see that
environmental position agencies are focused on getting payment from from
households and the payments has become the incentive, and so
the target is raising how much you made last year
(06:07):
to be more than this Decias made should raised more
this year than what she raised last year, and so
the incentive is mismatched. Is a mismatching the incentive because
the regulative authority should rather focus on reducing wasting the
environment than generating revenue. Also, investment at the sub national
(06:28):
is not matching the problem. Investment in terms of creating
awareness creating the right infrastructure that can recycle or manage
waste effectively is not there, and so subnational governments should
focus on ensuring that the right infrastructure is in place.
(06:49):
That way waste authorities, either those collecting or those regulating,
will have the right to work with.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
And also the right environment I could effectively.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Thank you, Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Jam It's quite interesting that you noted the mandate of
this MDS not marching implementation. And my next question will
be how does plastic pollution intersect with national development priorities
such as health, urban infrastructure and gen job creation. If
you could torture that.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
A bit, absolutely so, so there's a there's a there's
a connect between plastic pollution and the development in the country.
So so so when you're planning a city or when
you're planning in the community, there has to be a
deliberate action for you to look at waste management in
(07:44):
that community. So for instance, we see city development where
you have the planning authorities coming to build roads and
build drainage. However, where is that drainage emptying into that's
one then too there has to be the very deliberate
action of ensuring that the people that use or by
(08:08):
an infrastructure will know the right places to dispose of
their waste. So when you're planning the city, there has
to be a clear institutional infrastructure that will support the
physical infrastructure to be effective to supply the services that
have been built for And in terms of health, I
(08:29):
mean look at flooding. The impact of flooding in any environment.
So for instance, you see legals, you know, when you
go to maybe Lucky or maybe some parts of a
budja presently where within one hour rainfall you see some
places heavily flooded. And with flooding comes the heavy pollution.
(08:51):
Beyond plastic, you are pollution from you know, septic hands
and you have you know, the city getting very very
dirty and rodents now have to move to other places
where they can cause more impact. And so with flooding
there's a huge impact on your health and that that
would increase the issues in terms of illnesses in the environment. Secondly,
(09:17):
in terms of job creation, we saw the last the
last big flooding. I think there was a heavy one
last year as well, but the biggest one was where
most farms across the country were flooded and jobs were
lost because a lot of these companies had to shut
down a supplied those in their growth sector had to
shut down because their crops were totally destroyed, and so
(09:41):
that impacted jobs significantly for industries as well. Where you
have heavy flooding, you see that industries can operate effectively
and so there's a huge impact on job creation and
that impact negatively.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
In the economy of the economy of country. How However,
on the other hand, if we.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Manage plastic waste effectively, we can actually create jobs. That
means we can create jobs that can collect plastic, recycled plastic,
up cycle plastic, and that can create value. And when
plastic waste is taken out of the environment, then the
flooding can be reduced. And so you're having you know,
(10:23):
benefits from both sides. One reducing the waste in the environment,
we reduce the flooding, but also using the waste and
up cycling will also create jobs and create value for
the use and the populace of the country.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Thank you, Thank you very much, And let me not
come to you doctor Fermey. I know you are very
fast with the Standard Producer Responsibility Framework. What policy is
alignments currently hinder the effective implementation of this framework and
engineer from your own perspective.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Okay, thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
I said there is policy misalignment were an implementation of
our EPR, and one of it is the constraint of
overlapping mandates among various agencies, inconsistent regulation across the subnational
states and then also there is absence of clear compliance
(11:23):
mechanism in Nigeria epr UP until recently, I know there
is work on going to make it mandatory. Has been
voluntary and when you make something voluntary, it's it's if
I wish. So nothing is compelling me to actually do
(11:47):
what I'm supposed to do as an extended producer responsibility.
So also there's lack of economic incentives O penalties for
producers who want them is the imporcement and that would
make me to say that our enforcement when it comes
to such policies also are very weak as mentioned by Engineer,
(12:13):
So current policies don't align with broader industrial or environmental strategies,
which is causing the fragmented execution.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Quite interesting that you mentioned the fragmented nature of implementation
of this framework in Nigeria. And you know, giving Nigeria's
federal structure, what rules would you say states and local
government play and achieving nationalwide results on this plastic waste redurtion.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, yes, thank you very much.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
And this is one of the things that as an
industry player, as a top leader in the secular economy
and waste management sectory that year There's something I've been
talking for years now, I have been championing for years.
As said earlier, we are fragmented execution. So the states. Ideally,
(13:09):
the role of the states should be to enact and
enforce localized with lawte laws in which management laws while
local government most trending the waste collection systems and community awareness. Therefore,
we're decentralizing planning supported by the federal funding or any
(13:30):
technical guidance, because right now most states are runing which
management collection and disposal at state level. Now you find
out that the local government is closer to the point
of generation and to the people, to the community are
(13:52):
not part of the exercise.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And ideally, effective collection should.
Speaker 5 (13:58):
Be by the local authority, which is local government in
our case, and that should feed to the states. But
in this case, the state is the one doing the collection,
is the one enforcing the laws.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Sometimes the states are.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Even participating in doing the business of recycling instead of
so you're they're like, now enforcing what you're doing. You know,
you're supposed to be a regulator and then and then
I player. So this is these are the fragmented execution
(14:34):
that I see and as said but.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Can earlier it's not for lack of policies. It's not
for lack of.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
Regulations, but the implementation in the rights manner of following
the right strategies. And we need to look inward, like
I always say every time, we need to look in
world and enable context specific solutions. You know, we need
to integrate the state environmental agencies and the traditional institutions
(15:07):
that can enhance the grassroots impact for to solve these
our fragmented policy implementation and execution.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Thank you, Thank you very much, doctor, family. Let me
come back to you engineering can. The family just mentioned
the role of the state and local government, but then
engineer can, how can we create an economic case for
plastic polution mitigation to attract private capital into cycling and
circular economic solutions.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Okay, So, so just to emphasize that plastic waste, it
is called waste because of its location. So it's basically
value in the wrong place, right, So if we can
move that value to the right place, it becomes an
economic case. It means there's a business opportunity. So for instance,
(16:04):
we've recently a recent project we were part of looked
at all their cregators across the country and we noticed
that a lot of people are making really good money
from agregating plastic and exporting them. Now exporting them what
I did, I mean those bays they're exporting them to.
(16:25):
What are they're using those plastics for basically recycled in
them and we buy them back in the country for
packaging and the rest. And so if we can create
the right environment for that plastic not to be waste
but value, then there's a business case for businesses. Recently,
we had a project just last year where we also
(16:45):
taught some recycling facilities and we've seen that it's really
possible for you to recycle plastic and also possibly upcycled
plastic and we can still use them in an environment
become value. And so there's a good business is for
you know, plastic pollution and businesses coming in to invest
(17:06):
can really make money and that.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Can reduce pollution in the environment.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Now, looking at what's going on in legers and some
part of a budget.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Where we've seen you know, some some.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Recyclers, you know, bringing in technology to to actually create
better value. We've seen where there's what they call ATM,
like the plastic based ATM. We've visited their facility and
we can see that that can really be expanded across
the country. That is for the collection side, and the
(17:41):
entrepreneur has also made it very clear that there's a
clear chain that links the recycling side, so when they
collected in technology, they can also link with the recyclers
to recycle the plastics within Nigeria, and.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So we can see industries bringing up.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
But I think the best way to ensure that this
can be expanded across the country and create value for
the youth the increasing population of use we have in
the country is for the government to put in place the.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Right structures that can support these businesses.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
So for instance, having the right infrastructure that can segregate
waste effectively. One of these studies we carried out showed
that most of the plastics that get to the term side,
extracting them become very difficult. So that's why I see scavengers,
you know, roaming around trying to pick out plastics. But
(18:35):
in the right infrastructure in place that can segregate wastes,
you can actually separate plastics very very easily and businesses
can target buying these plastics for their upcycling or recycling processes.
So governments should could in place the right incentives, the
right infrastructure, and ensure that regulation is effective to make
(18:57):
sure that businesses that are investing in this environment and
not over regulated. But also they are not competing against
government as was referred to by doctor Fermi, because if
you're competing against government as a business, then does stand
the chance.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So government should ensure that.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
You need businesses business for business operators or entrepreneurs to
run and focus on regulation policy and ensuring you know,
the environment is right for investment.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Thank you very much for making a business case for
plastic seeing it as an opportunity for business and not
just pollution. Doctor family. You had mentioned previously that there's
a lack of sanction to forks to you know, implement
this policy. In your view, what metrics or indicators would
you recommend for in National Plastic Pollution Performance call or
(19:48):
dashboard so that we keep these people on their tour
about federal, state and local government level.
Speaker 5 (19:54):
Okay, thank you very much. So there's what I work
in my head. All the national plastic pollutions cocured. You know,
they are supposed to be some metrics for example, plastic
west generated by capital recycling rates formal and informal sectors
and then the leakage into water bodies. Also the EPR
(20:18):
Extended Producers Responsibility compliance with for example, the Food and
Beverage Recycling Alliance.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I think the members.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
Are over forty now, but I can tell you food
and beverage manufacturers and producers who uses these packaging materials
in the country, they are well over one thousand. And
if it's only few about forty. The less than fifty
as at the last count, are the one contributing to
(20:49):
en hands entrepreneurs. Collection rates and aggregation and clean ups
and all of that is never going to be enough
because it's voluntary, like I said earlieron, so there has
to be a mandatory compliance and that compliance rate.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Also we lead.
Speaker 5 (21:09):
To incentives or rewards for businesses or companies manufacturers who
participate well. Also investment in secular economic initiatives. In Nigeria,
we have a lot of young entrepreneurs doing wonderfully well
(21:29):
as mentioned, and I would say I'm young. I started
back in Nigeria some thirteen years ago in the plastic
and ger waste management recycling and I've seen the industry
truly private sector driven.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I've seen it emerge in the last. They're almost a
decade and.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
A half and we're not where we want, where we
should be. But we're not where we used to be.
But we can do more. And that's why I'm recommending this.
Nigeria has a national Circular Economic Framework. I know it's
being worked on, and like every other thing, we're too
slow in implementing these tops in Nigeria. And I believe
(22:15):
the right investments, the right engagement needs to scale up
the circular economic initiatives. A lot of our young people,
a lot of our entrepreneurs, they're doing great things, but
like you said, they just need the right infrastructure, the
right environment, the right support to scale up and to expand.
(22:37):
The industry is a huge, multi billion dollar industry that
we are not even scratching this office yet. I can
tell you that this is an industry I've been for
the past twenty four years, so I've worked in England
before comming to so I know I is an industry
I know very well, and I know that so number
(22:58):
of eco friendly enterprise is should be supported. There has
to be support. There has to be something that we
want to make people tweak their system, people that want
to make people real twine their production line, to be
more eco friendly, to be more environmentally friendly, to be
more secular in its operation and manufacturing.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
So you mentioned you mentioned that sorry to call to
you doctor form. You mentioned that they're only forty registered
member of the Beverage Association, whereas they are over one
thousand people using this into production of this plastic. Do
we have a clear national baseline or data repository and
plastic generation? Use it a leakage points? If not, what's
(23:46):
stopping us from having social repository?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Okay? We we have.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
A national policy framework on APR and like I said.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
What is it's because it is started on the wrong food.
Let me say that way.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Yeah, it's good to be industry lad is an industry
lead a standard brouiser responsibility very good, But the enforcement
is made voluntary. And when you make something voluntary, people are.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Not binded to do it. You understand, there's nothing that
forces them to do it.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
So therefore, I would say that NAGIA lacks a comprehensive
and a unified baseline, you know, due to poor coordination
like I said earlier on between agencies and also the
informer sectors contributions are also under reported. So the EPR
(24:50):
needs to be first mandatory across board, especially for plastic manufacturers,
for the Food and Every Cycle Alliance for full food
and beverage manufacturers sorry not the alliance now manufacturers. It
is something that has to be tied to the annual
(25:11):
licensing annual or even at registration. You must have an
undertaking that the agencies at the national level like NASIA
National Environmental Standard Regulated Agency or the agency at state level,
you can hold those companies responsible to So for me,
(25:36):
it's when we begin to do that compressive baseline that
will make this national that will give us the national
repository that.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
We are actually require or need as well as here.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, thank you very much, doctor Feminomy. Come back to you, engineer.
How can civil societies and you know resoarch tituditions like
the Nigerian Economics on groups support governments and strengthening data
systems for tracking plastic pollution?
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Okay, so, so on a recent on a recent project.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Where we work with some.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Universities, we realize that there's depth of knowledge and research
that has been done on plastic waste management. However, all
the research outcomes to many of the universities and so
there's a strugg linkage between the universities and government and business.
(26:42):
Then we can start seeing how businesses can take advantage
of research data to put in place systems that can
reduce plastic waste pollution. The government as well can also
use research data to to define policies that can help
reduce plastic waste to tracking waste position.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
But let's come to the fact that entities like the NASG.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Or recess across the country and not the locations or
the people that are basically contribute to plastic waste in
the in the environment. These entities, most of them have
you know, structures or infrastructure in place that they can
dispose waste effectively and and and the waste moves through
(27:35):
government structures to maybe dumb sides or where they are recycled. However,
where waste is generated mostly and we're waste is disposed
of indisciplinedly and not responsibly at the locations, we need
to focus on how do you collect data from such
(27:55):
locations And and that's where research, you know, using research
to shows and the NYAS this capacity to mobilize, engage
and and create that critical mass of informed citizens to
to actually take personal responsibility can coming so the n
(28:17):
E SG on this on one hand, can help mobilize
the right institutions, the right private sector interest and the
right individuals that can look into creating awareness either in
the subnational apnational level, but also creating the right proposals
(28:39):
of the government in terms of policy review. Then the
research instutions can carry out research on effective tracking systems.
There is one who seeming legals as quite interesting where
you can use your mobile phone, go on an application
and basically.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
Weigh your waste before you dispose.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And if you wear your waste and is ready for
the market, someone can actually indicating tests to buy from you,
and so we search in the application.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
In place, you.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
Can easily track the plastic you know, in the environment
that will naturally not become waste, will become value because
someone will take it off you before it becomes waste.
And so such systems in place can track the level
of wasste generated, but also how much of it has
(29:33):
gone to the environment and how much of it can
be recycled or has been recycled or upcycled. So first,
any SG most deliberately you know, put in place you know,
mobilize its members to ensure the awareness is created.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
Within all the sectors of the economy.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
Research institutions can also help with ensuring that all the
research carried out universities and high institutions can be applied
or can be put to use either by government or
the private sector, and these can help improve reduction of
plastic waste in the environment.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Thank you, Thank you very much, and let me come
back to you, doctor Fermi. You've mentioned that we need
to do something for manufacturers and incentivize them in practical terms. Now,
how can we better incentivize this local manufacturers so I
dropped by degradable or reusable packaging and skill we are
driving up the cost for consumers.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Okay, thank you very much. In incentifying incentivizing.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
By degradable and usable packaging, I will advocate that subsidies
on biopackaging technology, tax holidays for green manufacturers, public procurement
preferences also can help, and regularly frameworks should reward low
(31:03):
impact packaging through certifications.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
I think I mentioned that are also incascinated.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
And also for MSMEs, shared infrastructure models can also reduce
the VIAD costs for their production using these about.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
A greble or usable packaging and we we've.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Seen we've mentioned we can over emphasize what our entrepreneurs
are doing using used plastics, used materials, even textile waste
and they're using them for packaging or starts and they
(31:48):
are creating usable materials. Also, we have entrepreneurs who are
using about greble materials to creates alternatives for plastics. I'll
just mentioned there is a young man who is using
coconuts pod to create plates and cups, just like they
(32:12):
do with bamboo in China and the other part of
the world. In Nigeria, someone is doing that, but it's
still at a small scale. So we can give subsidies
on biopackaging technology. Such a person can expand and can
scale and can even bring more investment into that sector.
(32:34):
Tax holidays for grain manufacturers also will give. And then
if the public sector begins to procure such our items
produced locally and advertise it, give it good awareness, creation,
(32:56):
good course for Nigerian's it's locally made. And also it's
going to solve industrial problem. It's going to create jobs
and at the same time it's going to solve environmental problem.
It's going to solve pollution problem. At the same time,
we're going to solve health problem. As mentioned earlier on
because when you have insistant flooding, it leads to health issues,
(33:19):
it leads to financial damage as well. So I believe
if we begin to give the right incentives for about
by and usable packaging, it will go a long way
to help solve.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
The issue of plastic pollution.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Let me let me stay with you and ask this
this for the question, because you're a secular economy aspect,
how do we transition from pilot projects into secular in
this secularity to full scale industry adoption. What's in your
view and levers that can drive this shift?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
Well, you know, as I said, eleround the country.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
In Nigeria, we have the National Circular Economy Roadmap that
was launched last year.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So in scaling circular economy.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
Beyond pilots, we must mandate secularity standard in industry regulations.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
It has to be mandatory. We must offer physcal.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Incentives such as import duty waivers on recycling or secular
economy equipment. We must establish work cable place onderline what
I mean work cable public private partnership for waste infrastructure.
(34:41):
We must strengthen demand through consumer campaigns and green product
labeling like I mentioned, So it's.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
When we do these things that it gives the.
Speaker 5 (34:58):
Pilot projects can be killed up, there will be need
for there's need for investment, and investors will be interested
because there is investment security, there is incentives for their investments,
and then the long term benefit for both social, economic
(35:21):
and environmental, which I believe those are the ways to
go if we're looking at scanning circular economy beyond the
pile of projects.
Speaker 1 (35:32):
From what the heir you say, there's a lots of
behavioral changes that need to happen to make this shift
for Nigeria occur. Engineer economy, what role would you say,
considering that the family has mentioned some behavior shift required,
what role would you say schools and curriculum reform will
play and it's still in circular economic values from any
(35:55):
childhood engineer academy.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Sure, I mean, it's it's quite interesting that you know,
individual behavior comes to play very significantly in terms of
plastic pollution because at some locations were we've seen you
may have the infrastructure in place or waste disposal, however,
(36:21):
you know in discipline, you know leads to where people
still dispose waste in the very wrong way, not using
the assets or infrastructure to the place, and so that
early early stage education and early stage awareness creation is
quite important.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
And so if you can use these schools.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Maybe starting from primary school to secondary schools where we
have I think some schools have clubs now that are
called environmental clubs. Within those clubs, you can still the
value of being disciplined in terms of managing waste effectively.
Then when they start, when they can start growing from
primary to secondary, they already know that are set in
(37:05):
place that I can dispose of waste effectively, but also
plastic can be of very good value. Now putting that
into curriculum is also very possible. I know that there's
civic education at the primary and secondary level. Within the
civic education curriculum, waste management can be put as part
(37:25):
of the models and so that students can start learning
at that very young age that it is more important
to be disciplined to dispose of waste effectively, because there's
a huge negative impact for even the same individual, direct
negative impact if you don't do if you don't dispose
waste in a very good manner. That way, as the
(37:48):
students grow to become youth, maybe in the universities they
can start looking at research, they can start looking at
technology application to better manage.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
In plastic waste.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
So for curriculum, we can include waste management as part
of civic education, but also with the clubs and the
environmental clubs in schools, those can also help a lot
to create awareness and inform and inculcate habits of you know,
(38:23):
better waste disposal in the young children before they become even.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
Youth to be effective in society.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
And interestingly, you know, just going back to what doctor
Fernie was saying about, you know, government creating the right environment,
I think that we can explore the application of technology
as well. You know, government can create the right environment
as well, not just for producers or manufacturers, but for
(38:52):
youth to bring in their you know, you know knowledge
innovation in one tracking waste and two disclosing of waste.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
We've seen where you know, very young people.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Have created applications that have been very effective. And so
beyond focusing on the manufacturers or the producers, we can
look at where innovation can be used to to create
opportunities for waste cycling or waste management in the country.
And so that's what government can also focus on, you know,
(39:27):
creating the environment for young people to express themselves by
being bringing in innovation and bringing in the use of technology.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Thank you interesting, Thank you for mentioning the youth. Indeed,
young people have a role to play even as the
land from mandy childhood and pollution reduction because femininely come
back to you in your twenty four years of you know,
experience in the secular economy and especially outside of Nigeria.
What lessons can Nigeria adopt from countries that have you know,
(39:56):
successfully tackled single use plastic through regulation and your change
from your experience.
Speaker 5 (40:04):
Okay, before I dwell there, I just think I should
mention in support of what Engineering Academy is said Naginia.
You are not found one thing in innovating ideas and
I would just mention there are three waste management or recycling.
There are more than three, but I would just mention
three of them. Two of them I know are domicile
(40:24):
in Legos and there's one in protact Court. The one
in protacouse is called trash coin. So where people are
getting incentivized for bringing their recycl labels and using the
ALP the application from the comfort of their home to
engage recyclers or collectors and greetors to pick and they
get paid or get the incentives for their recycl labels.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Was done by young Nigelian.
Speaker 5 (40:49):
Also we have in Legos Packram and we have Junkyard.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Also in Legos.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
Like I said Elero, the government we need to have
a work cable public private partnership to begin to use
these innovations at either local government level, at state level,
at national level. We need that. So back to your
question the linkages or what are we supposed to look
(41:20):
at as a cognation. Nigeria can adopt faced bands. You
know Legosi is banning singles plastic, no problem about it,
singles plastics that are no usable.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Non recyc levels. But it should be in phased because
people are being used to this way.
Speaker 5 (41:38):
So people need to know why. You need to educate people.
You need to create awareness. You need to give them
the right incentives to be able to look at them
and understand why you're adopting they based band. Also, we
need to build a public private consensus and then prioritize
(42:00):
beaver a change.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
And I would give an example.
Speaker 5 (42:02):
I think it was in two thousand and one two
thousand and two when I first found myself and they
waste my innes sector in the United Kingdom and that
was when a borough I worked for.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Then we're changing their waste collection system.
Speaker 5 (42:14):
The first thing we had to do was to go
door knocking, go house to house to knock at the
door within the community local government level. And that's why
I said earlier one waste collection should be at the
local government level. So because we know people in the
community knowing one another. And then we were engaged and
(42:36):
we were going door to door educating households, talking to
them about the new system that is coming, giving them
time to prepare. You use one being system now you
put all your waste in a bean and then the
government the collectors come to collect it. But it's going
(42:58):
to change. We have to explain to them why is
changing the award an European law. There's going to be
finding the United Kingdom for every doneage of recyclable waste
that goes to the landfill, and that if the United
Kingdom government is going to be paying that fine to
(43:20):
e you, then the United Government, the United States, the
United Kingdom government is going.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
To pass that to the people through the local authority.
Truly a cancil tax payment.
Speaker 5 (43:32):
And so if you don't want to pay more of
council tax because of the tax, the land field tax
that is got the state of the government is going
to be paying.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
So this is why this local authority has gone this way.
We're going to be separating your waste.
Speaker 5 (43:48):
We're gonna get your recyclables in the bluebean and then
we're gonna get your non recyclable in the black bag
and then organic waste.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
The boudary is we now go in your green bean.
You know. So people like.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Two months, three months before they rollout of the new
waste collection system, we were already out there explaining to.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
People, educating people on the new thing that is coming.
Speaker 5 (44:21):
Also, we can learn from countries like Kenya Rwanda. They
succeeded through strong enforcement public education, like the way Legos
is going clear bands on single use plastics. Yesterday already
on the news that the single use plastic band that
is kicking up the Legos from July first is not
(44:43):
going to include the PLATEBAT two and the pure water
Sashi And we can all understand why because the rite
infrastructure for pipe bine.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Water is not even in place.
Speaker 5 (44:58):
So if you say are binding singles plastic and the
manufacturers or the bookers or Boto Water or Sashi Water
are still in the consultation and discussion over changing their
packaging material to about degreeable as we mentioned earlier on,
so he has to be a faced.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Process. We must have strong enforcement on.
Speaker 5 (45:26):
Clear bands or singleus plastics and then we can learn
from other countries like Kenya have done it successfully. It
didn't happen overnight. I can tell you that Kenya started
the major process to banish singles plastic in two thousand
and seven, two thousand and eight, but it did not
come to fusion until twenty seventeen. So we should not
(45:48):
just think we can do knee jack reaction. It has
to be an intentional process. He has to be a
deliberate attempt and we must carry every critical stakeholders along.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I wish, I wish we had more time, but we
are out of time, so I will give each other
panelists thirty seconds to give us their message on this
world environment to day. Engineering can all be a message
on this world environmental day.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
Thank you. Seven.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, I really wish we had more time, but just
to on this call the fact that environment is critical
to our survival. We need to make sure that our
environment is sustainable and so all the actions we take.
Our inactions will impact us either positive or negatively. So
to sustain our livelihood, to sustain lives, and to ensure
(46:38):
that our generations yet bornd can also benefit from the environment,
we have less take it very seriously, less manage it safely,
and less manage it sustainably.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Very much, and you doctor Fermi, will be your message.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
Okay, I will say that which I agree with you,
but I will say that plastic pollution targets must be
integrated into national climate policies, our endsies, SGG reporting budgeting frameworks.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Also we must.
Speaker 5 (47:15):
Have performance based financing, green bonds and climate funds can
be leveraged. And then Ministry of Finance and Planning most
outline environmental goals with piscal parities through a multisectoral planning.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Distinguish audience, you would agree with me that this has
been a very insightful conversation with wish we had more
time to you know, dig deeper into this conversation. But
thank you so much to my dear resource process in dinner, ECDEM,
thank you so much for your time and doctor family.
Thank you so much for your time to our audience listening.
Thank you so much for tuning in into this episode
of the podcast, so we come away next time again
(48:00):
up International Environmental Thank you, Bye bye
Speaker 3 (48:11):
M
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