June 6, 2025 • 40 mins
Food safety is a public health and development priority. This year’s theme “Food Safety: Science in Action” highlights the urgent need to strengthen food systems through research, innovation, and science-based regulation. On this episode, we speak with Nicholas Alifa, PhD Researcher in Food Science at the University of Reading, on the role of science in building safer, more resilient food systems. Moderated by Stephen Daniel, Senior Associate, Think Tank Operations, NESG
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello again and welcome to the NSG podcast on ANSG Radio.
It's so good to have you and today we have
celebrated the World International Food and Safety Day and our
topic today is a science behind your meal. How food
safety research is preventing illness, redising costs and protecting lives.
The twenty twenty five World Food Safety Day team that
(00:26):
I just mentioned to you under scores the indispensable role
of science and ensuring that the food we eat is
both safe, nutritious, and fit for consumption. As food systems
become increasingly globally complex, the application of scientific knowledge from
laboratories to food production and policy making is more critical
(00:46):
than ever. Each year, an estimated six hundred million people
worldwide fall ill after consuming on safe food, with four
hundred and twenty thousand fatalities, including two hundred one hundred
and twenty five one thousand children under the age of five,
according to the World Health Organization the Budding of food
Borne Illnesses. This approportionally affects law and middle income countries
(01:11):
such as Nigeria, where GABS and regulatory enforcement, cerviillance, infrastructure,
and public awareness remains significant. However, through the lens of science,
these challenges can be transformed into opportunities for innovation.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Prevention and progress.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And today I'm so glad to have with us a scientist,
mister Nicholas Alifa, who is a PhD Research candidate and
food science at the University of Reading in the United Kingdom,
with over a decade of experience translating food system information
into actionable insights for industries, policy makers and consumers. Is
the Scientific Assystem at the Institute of Food Science and
(01:48):
Technology in the United Kingdom. It leases the information and
communication strategy for the United Kingdom Research and Information funded
Smart People, Smart Process, Smart Factory Project at the National
Center for Food Manufacturing, University of Lincoln. Nicolas is the
founding executive of the Center for African Food Research and
(02:08):
Innovation and lease the Food System to Martive Group of
the Community of Practice for You at the Nigerian.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Economic Summer Group.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
You're welcome, mister Nicholas, and it's so good to have
you on the podcast today.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me this evening.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Let's dive right into it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I'll start with a very general question, what does food safety,
science and action meant to you in the context of
today's global food system.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Okay, to answer that question, I would love to break
it down to what science is actually in relations to food,
because when you talk about science and food these days,
people tend to raise eyebrows as if science is the
enemy when it comes to food. People don't want to
hear about science, especially when people to think about people
on lab codes with chinic coals and the rist. So
(02:59):
in the same in iss simplest form, science is just
a way of acting questions and finding answer based on evidence.
It's science that makes us to understand why do people
foresake when they eat a batch of swear all, what
kind of bacteria can surviving negosi is suit for left overnight?
And how long can tomatoes stay a fresh before the covert.
(03:21):
So science helps also develop questions around these scenarios and
fine answers to them. So science is just more than
a people in white coats. It's it's the is the
core thing about food and food safety. Now bringing it
home and to answer your question about food safety science
and action into to the global system, I would love
(03:44):
to say that it emphasizes scientific knowledge or the application
of scientific knowledge at all stages of food chain to
keep our food safe.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Now, in today's globalized food system.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
This means having the best avaluable science would from microbiology
down to data analytics to informost how we produce, process.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
And handle food.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Now, the twenty twenty five word word food safety datam
underlies the vital role of science in advancing knowledge to
protect food, while also highlighting that all stakeholders, including government,
industrial and consumers most put to knowledge and into action
through policies, practices, and deliciouss. So we are simply saying
(04:32):
science in actions simply means having scientific facts, acting on
those scientific facts as guidance at every step to ensure
that food is saved for everyone. So, in practical terms,
is the decision that is based on science, not guestwork.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Not.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
I would say conspiracy theory, not just senses, but evident
baked scientific knowledge.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I'm really glad you mentioned I'm really glad you mentioned
conspiracy because people over the time have not trusted science.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
A lot when it comes to food safety issue.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
How would you say the food safety research world that's
evolved over the last decay, particularly in response to emerging risk.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Well, thank you for that wonderful question, and like you,
like Redley said, it's a major problem for both consumers
because science had actually made our food saver, whether you
like it or not.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
But we have now entered.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
An error where information is democratized.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Anyone can just say anything from their head.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Based on what the field and most of the time
those things they say it seems logical, but then it's
not evidence based, and so it's been a very major
problem for food safety concern globally. Now, talking about the
evolution of food safety research over the last few decades,
I would love to start from how we have evolved
(06:14):
rapidly from in the way we respond to food safety
Before now, food safety used to be a reactive response
in terms of when people eat food the forth sick,
then we take them to the hospital and find out
what did they eat to make them for sick. But
(06:36):
with the advent of science, we have moved from that
to a preventive risk based approach. What do I mean
now there is now a scientific and systematic process in
place to ensure that the food you consume are safe
even before you consume them. So science had helped us
to move from chorices from a reactive response to food
(06:58):
safety two more of a prevent a preventive response. It
has also empowered regulators and scientists to focus on preventing
hazards before they cost hamp. For example, we can now
use data to identify the high rix foods and then
implement stricter controls.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
On known trouble sports. Now give you an example.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Now it is scientifically which has been proven that food
with low water content or we call it most of
your content as we call it, that food that are
dried are not they are resistant or they do not
support the growth of microaganisms. But food that are fresh,
that have high water content, they are prone to the
(07:41):
growth of microaganism, including including the one that costs HAMP.
So science has helped us, the knowledge of science as
opposed to to identify that those food should they are
called the high rich food and then we now implement
strict damages to prevent and to ensure their safety. Sotantly,
we science, I suppose, help used to broaden the emerging risk.
(08:04):
For example, climate change is now recognized as this significant driver.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
For food safety issues.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Recently, studies have linked warming of temperature and extreme weather
to increase survivor of food bone microaganisms. So with the
with the advent of science, we've been able to we
we've been able to identify that what is the impact
of climate change on food risk and then help us
to look for a way to guide it correctly.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Subsequently, and finally in.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Terms of the emerging food safety risk is novel foods
well do not popular in our side of the world,
but there are no There are new food that are
coming up, like cultivated meat, that's meat that is made
from this culture instead of from animal bodies, reformulated plant
(08:56):
based protein to mimic animal protein. These are novel foods
and science are so for us also rates to to
the concerned to help us keep this save and keep
this food save. So you can see the trend, you
can see how science are image over the years.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Can you can you explain further the scientific process behind
identifying a footballe hazard and how that translates into safer
food on our plates.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Okay, thank you so much for that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
So in terms of the scientific process, it varies depending
on who is carrying out the process.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
The process for regulators is.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Not the same as the process for food food proces,
food food producers, or manufacturers. But generally for regulators we
have the first thing in scient in identify or in
making food save. The first step of the process is
what we call hazard identification.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
When we talk about hazard.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
We are talking about the potential of a food or
a substance in the food to.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Cause ham to make you for sic.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
So has that scientists detect the potential food bone hazard
such as hampful bacterium, virus, parasite, or chemical toxins. And
this might happen through routine monitoring, for example, testing food
in the product lab for those in the in manufacturing sector,
or random selection of food samples from shelves and analyzing
(10:25):
them for those in the regulatory sector, or through what
you call the epidemiology investigation, where you look at a
group of a group of people and like who has
a particular sickness and try to trace that sickness to
a particular kind of food or a particular way they
prepared your food. So has that identification is the first
is the first step in is the first scientific step
(10:47):
in making food safe. That follows by risk assessment. Now,
has that and risk are not the same thing. Has
that is the potential of a food or substance the
food to cause ham.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Risk is the.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Measure of of how that potential is likely to occur
the likelier occurrence.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I'll give you an example. Now we have identified that they.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Say hazard in cassaver and this hazard has the potential
to cause health, to cause health issues.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
So that's a hazard.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
But then risk looks at what is the what is
the measure or what is the level at which this
can occur. So when you look at taking the food
through the processes, does the processes reduced the chance or
the yeah, the chances of that occurring. So let's talk
about risk. So the next step is to assess the risk.
(11:48):
Assessing risk means looking around the processing is there any
processing step that can remove the hazard or is there
any any processing step that can make the food more
promptally hazard like those heating removed it kills the bacteria.
And if it kills the bacteria at what level, at
what percentage? So this process announced that that is and
(12:09):
then at the end of the day we come up
with risk communications and come up with a standard or
called the standard operating procedures to help us deal with
these different hazard For example, if you have identified that
a particular bacteria is liable to survive in a particular
kind of food, and this bacteria.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
That means that's hazard.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Then if this bacteria only survive at a temperature between
thirty seven to literally a room temperature between thirty seven
to stay twenty five degrees integrade, that's a rik assessment.
You have assessed the risks to know at what temperature
this particular bacterium can survive.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
So you come up with a standard.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
It's either you heat up the food above that seven
degrees c integrates to inactivated the particlar bacteria, or you
reduce the temperature like storage in cost temperature maybe for
the grease integrate, or care about so that it can
in that it can it can help prevent that bacteria
(13:13):
from going. So the first step is reassessment. The second step,
I mean the first type is has that identification. The
second sept step is risk assessment and its top step
is standard development. And the first step is communication. Now
after we have developed the standard, we don't communicate to
people producing the food. So okay, look, you can't keep
your your for example, you can't keep your milk below
(13:36):
for the great integrates and for more than social number
of days. And that's based on scientific knowledge. So that's
the process that we follow.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It's quite interesting, and I really really love science. You
really break it down in such a way that anyone
who is not a scientist can easily easily follow. Let's
let's come to the prevent of illnesses. Which football pathogens
remain the greatest threats to public health today and how
is science helping us detect or control them more effectively?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Okay, now, the interesting part of football pathogens is that
we have millions and thousands of microaganisms that are that
are liable to cost sickness when they are value going food.
But the good thing is that majority of them are
good microaganisms.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
That's that's that's how nature design it. Majority.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Only a few of them are copeople of cossing illness.
But those few that are people of cossing illness can
cause major, major problem if if they're not kept out
of food. So talking about the popular one today that
we are still dealing with, a good example is the
Campulu bacter and they are responsible for cousing the area
(14:53):
what we call rny stomaching nineria, sorry the neuro virus
for I mean they're responsible for causing therea work called
the running stomach and vomiting. And also bacteria like cuculo
bacter as well. We also have other organisms that like
Samonella which which are the popular and some TYPEE which
(15:15):
as you may know, they are very common with causing
of typhoid and the surviving water. And then we also
have echoli not all equalized, the particular strain of echoline
known as the O one five the ecolomi is the
some people call it strisercli or call it s steric coli.
So these are some of the pathogenic microaganism. Of course,
(15:35):
we can also forget the least tramonocytogenies that is very deadly,
especially for.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Pregnant women and for elderly people.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
And they are they are, they are, They are present
in foods like diairy and delimits and rests. So these
are some of the food food football pathogens that we
are still we are still delivered today. But the good
news is that we we have identified them as hazards
and we have been able to assess their risk, and
(16:04):
we have been able to set standard procedures that food processors,
restaurants and even household consumers needs to follow in order
to be able to keep this, to keep this, to
keep this out of our food and keep us safe.
And of course we will not want to forget the
other major ones that is popular, especially in a part
(16:27):
of the world where comes alongside with meat, something like
tape one that causes illnesses and the likes. So these
are some of the current pathogens that we are struggling
with at the moment. Now let's to now to not
talk about how science is helping enough to overcome some
of these pathogens. The modern technology has dramatically improved how
(16:49):
our ability to detect contamination and identify outbreaks faster. For example,
with the advance of DNA sequencing, specifically what we call
the whole General sequence, that is the WGS, it allows
laboratories to determine the exact finger fingerprints of bacteria from
sick patients and contaminative foods by single print. By fingerprint,
(17:12):
I mean it helpos to to you know, when you forsic,
for example, and go to the hospital and they take
your tool and then the what they want to do
is they want to analyze your tool and look and
look at what are some of the metabolites. By metabolites
is like say the escret of some of these microganisms,
and they are valuable in in your tool or in
(17:33):
your RNI, and they are available. It can tell you
that these particular sequences caused by these particular microgronisms, and
that is that is possible by general sequences. So that's
how science is helping us to identify them if if
there's an outbreak, for example, we also help us to
have to have what we call an unparallel accuracy and
(17:56):
speed in factosene detection and source atribution. You know, one
of the major things, one of the major ways to
deal with food bone outbreaks and footblle pathogy is to
orderstand where they come from. Okay, and there's a lot
of food that people consume and a lot of maybe
a lot of people passes through different the passes through
different restaurants. But with the aid of modern technology in
(18:20):
modern in modern countries, we hope we have them. So
in Nigeria, there's what we've got this a foodceability foodsability
technology that can help us to identify if this bacteria
is happening or if this particular food bone outbreak is
happening in a Budjet for example. It's there are technology
that will help us identify the source, where does it
(18:42):
come from?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
So These are some of the ways that science.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Protocols and have helped us to identify. Another way is
with the aid of science, we have been able to
develop what we call the good manufacturing practice or the
good hygienic practice, which are six standard that every fruit
handler must be most follow in order to keep food safe.
(19:06):
It is the knowledge of science that help us to
identify what has to be done. For example, one of
the normally to people is when you buy your meeting
and genial tends to wash those meats, right, but it
truces that what in the meat does not remove the contamination. Rather,
what it does is that it caused the microorganism to
(19:27):
spread in your passion.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
It caused the microaganism to spread to your plate.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
It casts them to spread to to order food, other food,
other things that you that you know eat as much.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
But when you hit your.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Meat, it kind of it kills or maybe the word
kill is not it's not the most scientifically accurate, but
let me form to use that for a leman. It
tends to kill the microaganisms, so it do not make
you seek. But then those microganisms that you have scattered
all over the place in your late by washing those meat,
(20:02):
and you don't, you will not hit your plate for
restance before you eat them. So you if you use
the same plate to fresh the macrologism, you might have
destroyed the macroaganism by cooking it in your in your
in your in your meat, but you haven't destroyed them
because the plates were not heated. So the science made
us to understand that the best thing to do is
when you buy a meat, cook them directly, because when
(20:26):
you wash them, there is more. There is more there,
they said, It says proof that express the microaganisms around,
so there is no there is no need for you
to wash your meat before you cook them. I know
this may not stand well with us, because in the
part of the country we come from, we tend to
wash everything before we eat. Another thing is, with the
(20:47):
aid of science we have been able to identify to
how to prevent cross contamination. For example, that you don't
use the same shopping board that you used to cut
your vegetables and all to use the same shopping board
to cut your meat, because naturally we don't eat vegetables
for a long time the way we hit meat.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
So if you use the.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Same shopping but there's potential for cross contamination, and when
that happens and those vegetables are not well heated, you
discover that you begin you also begin to have problems.
So these are some of the things that have been
able to come to understand by the aid of science,
and we need to communicate this out there so that
people can follow this example. I don't know if I
(21:31):
should stop at this way, have to continue.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Wow wow, wow, this is quite interesting because I personally
have cooked a few times and never knew that you're
not supposed to use the same chopping board for both
meat and vegetables. Quite quite insight to suppose to your stay.
Let's now switch to you know, some economic impact. Because
the World band reports over one hundred and ten million
dollar loss in annual losses due to save food in
(21:56):
both low and middle income countries. How can science opposed
to mitigate these economic losses?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Well, talking about economic losses like you mentioned, I think
one of the major ways to do that, especially from
a part of the world.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Is to begin to see.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
The economic impact of unsaved practices with food. Okay, there
is no there is no let me say, there's no
magic ones. If you don't follow the good safety procedure.
The probability of getting sick from food is high. So
(22:41):
the first thing is that the food handlers, talking about
the manufacturers, the restaurants and even consumers should understand that
what it takes to follow the right food safety procedure
is less expensive than the costs of food bone outbreak.
(23:08):
So this is the first thing we need to understand,
and this has to be from different sectors.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Let me start from the government.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Now, the government can save a whole lot of money
economically if.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
We invest in standard.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Food safety practices, whether we invest in laboratories that have
that are up to date, state of the that are
our up to dated, state of the art technologies that
can help us in identifying food bone pathogens. Now, the danger,
the danger we have in the in our part of
(23:44):
the world is that we hoppy or we tend to
you know, rely on the Western worlds for for identifications
of pathogens in food and the rest. But our food
matrices are not the same. In fact, temperature and a
weather condition are.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Not the same.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
So what works for them may not work for us.
So we need to come up with you need to
invest in this infrastructure so that we can be able
to come up with our own standard.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Fall on me to.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Look how need so we need to We're supposed to
see that as an investment for to secorde the economy
for economic growth, so because it has both macro and
the microeconomic implications good for the good for the individuals
and for the public. So another thing we also need
(24:36):
to look at is we need improved infrastructure. Like I said,
we need improved regulations. We need to invest in improved regulations.
When I was younger, there was these public health people
that used to come around. You know, they used to
come around that grew up in the village. So they
come around every maybe once in a month, and they
(24:58):
look They go into your kitch and they look at
your caches, and then they see how you're keeping your
kitchen in place. They make sure that the kitchen is
not close to lattering, and then they give advice.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
But as I.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Continue to grow, I'm not a very old but does
things disappeared. You do not have public health practitioners coming
around to do all those things.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
So people in the role area don't don't even.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Have this this this understanding of they don't understand the
scientific application of some food safety practices, and so they
are left with guessing and at the end of the day,
we are having.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
A lot going to food safety issues.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
So we need to invest more in regulations. Let's have
a trained public safety personnel. Yes, we are doing a
lot when it comes to dig manufacturing companies and processed food.
That's because once that happens, the risk can be very high,
it can spread so fast. But then what happened to
(25:57):
the mamma pulls, what happened to the to the use
at the bottom of the pyramids? That that that that
deals directly with the consumers. We say have a lot
to do in that aspect. We need to invest in regulations.
We also need to invent what I call in scientific
communications to change people's behavior towards food safety and the
(26:21):
scientific the scientific communications and be done using the same
public health that talked about. You have a strong and
very strong public health that interface with it with the
general consumers, and we can do we can start to
break them down into simpler levelage.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
See, food safety is not a rocket science. It's simple thing.
It's logic.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
It's like just the way I explained how to why
not why you should not to watch your meat for example,
or why you should not shop your meat on the
same board. Now, if you if you explain that to
a layman and you give them and made them see
that reasons they are scientific principles, they are scientific.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Backed data, but then you are explaining it in a
simple way that people can understand.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
So for us to be able to save the economic laws,
we need to first of all invest in the alternative,
because if we don't invest in the alternative, then we'll
have to waste the money in the food safety and
safe with the economic loss.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Quite interesting that you speaking lots to the issue of
regulation in your own experience. What are the challenges in
translating scientific findings into enforceable regulations.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
I think the first thing, or the first problem we
have is now the pace of scientific innovation versus the
pace of policy making. I mean, it's it's it's the
truth is people are in the lab every day. They're
coming up with with with new with new technology, they're
coming up with new findings, they're coming up with with
(27:52):
new ways that we should keep our food safe. But
then you understand that policy making is not As that
first example, I can remember the food the food the
National Food Safety and Quality Bill. If you remember that
the end years you work alongside with other partners.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I was, I was fortunate to know to be part
of that bill.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
And the bill started since two thousand, I think for
as long as two thousand and if I can remember,
if my brain can help me, well, for since two
thousand and one thousand and two, and it was not
until around twenty twenty four that the bill was passed.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
So that is four years.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
That is four years in passion, in particularly, and I
want to assure you that within those pillods of four years,
science have moved on. As a matter of fact, as
a scientist, as your researcher, if your paper is more
than five years, you should be very conscious in citing.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
The people in your published work.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
That's mean science is saying that after five years that
findings may not be valid again. But then it takes
the five four five four to five years to develop
a particular a policy or a bill.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
So the pace at.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
To scientific innovation is moving is faster than the pace
achieved policy making.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
And of course you can you cannot. You cannot.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Make regulations, science based regulations without have the first of
four translate those scientific fundlies into policies.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
So you see the gard So We need to see how,
how how we should be able to measure those caups,
and one of the ways is that, yes, I respect
for policy formulaters, but then we should also have people
that are in whose science, in policy development people so
that we can so policies should be.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Tracking scientific discoveries, so people that are in power research
to be part of the discussion so that when something
is happening they can it can be up to day.
Another major challenge is resource and capacity constraints, especially in
the part in a party the world two hundred and
fifty over twoudred and fifty million people and more than
(30:07):
seventy percent of our food of our food business is
run informally. Now it's easier to it's easier to regulate
big companies, but very difficult to regulate small companies because
there are a lot of them, and of course we
have results, we have resource and capacity constraint to do that.
(30:30):
So we need to also begin to see what majures,
what strategy can we put in place now that cannot
be everywhere. As a matter of fact, I don't think
we expect enough of that to go and start regulating
Ma marputs. They have other better things to do in
their hands. That's why we need to strengthen our public
health system and we need to.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Use indigenous people.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Imagine, if every voting center has a functional public health system,
one or two persons that are into public health, it
just is not rockay science. So if every voting center
has one or two persons that are that that are
constantly and consistently helping to enforce that to keep the
public safe, so we need to look at and so
(31:14):
resource and capacity constraint. It's another media and under media
sage that we are facing. And like I also said,
we are facing industry and public acceptance of science. Now
it's a major problem. It's a major problem in a
world where where you know, typically researchers and scientists are
(31:36):
not are not let me say so to say efficient,
let me let me know the efficient. So they're not eloquent,
so to say, they're not like, they're not marketers, they're
not influencers. And so when an influence a form of
social media and then pick something that he something that
has to have big knowledge about and then making some
(31:58):
some scientifically inner curate claims, people tends to believe them
more because it's.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
What they're hearing.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
So so it's a major problem with that we're facing
now about the industry and the public acceptance of science.
So scivice, for example, scientific findings may suggest is stick
to controls for new practices. Well, then people may like,
come on now because of the okay, because of one
of the things one to all the other day, they
(32:25):
just said like, okay, this doesn't what I want to do.
The just want to do it the way I want.
And that is the major problem when it comes to regulation.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Why it's quite interesting that you spoke about the fact
that didn't Trust is still an issue. How do we
get consumers to better understand and trust the science behind
that food?
Speaker 4 (32:44):
I think the I think if you ask me, and
that's and that's only the thing that I've decided to
commit myself to doing.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
We need communicators.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
We need scientists that are trained communicators, like we need
science that are able to calm down from from from
from the amountain and bring down scientific principle in simple
everyday language.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Now.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Growing up, I used to see science as some mythical
stuff that that's that are not touchable.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
But science is natural.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Actually, there's not a new science is simply exploring what's
what's happening around us. So there is so we need
more people that are trained to be science communicators, right
so so so that at the end of the day,
like I'm able to tell the stories of science in
(33:34):
a way that it's simple enough for people to understand
yet scientifically accurate because we're having at the moment.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
What is bringing about these these public trust issue is when.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
People who are not scientists quote and unquote, you know,
pick scientific discovery and then over simplify the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I'll give you an example. Recently, I read I read.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
A paper in fact is what it was, a pair
review paper that talks about processed food.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
In the paper was listing food that is a handful.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Substances such as high fast, high salt, high sugar of cod.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
That's true by way to say processed food.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Now you understand, you could see that he has listed
he has tacked processed food as a half as a
handful substance.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
And not knowing that we we're talking about when we talk.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
About processed, processing means converting food into a more palatable
or a more extended of life. While we have some
processing that can be handful, it's not all processing that
are handful. For example, the process it takes to convert
your your cone to augie is processing and ugly. It's
(35:00):
one of the most healthy food that you can consume.
So when people and when people don't understand that that
that jargons, it tends to erode those public in public trusts.
So we need more people that are trained scientific science,
that are trained to be public communicators breaking down science
(35:21):
principle in simpler language yet in an accurate way for
people to understand. And that thing also is we need
to I don't know how this is going to happen
because we need.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
To also translate science.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
With respect to our culture, with respect to our background.
We need to use examples and illustration and analogies with
what people are used to every day. So when you're
out there talking about your atoms and your molecules and
your compounds and your bacteriums and whatsoever, people may not
understand them.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So we need to look. We need to see how
we how we can devise to say.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
These things in a way that people can relate, especially
given a knowledge is that it's close to us, that
it's something that weig can we can actually use.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
So these are some of the ways that we can.
I know it's it's a.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Very complex thing, but we need to take steps, and
I thank god a lot of people are taking steps
at that at different point.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
But we need to learn, we need to do more.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Thanks, thank you very much, Thank you very much, doctor Nicholas.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I know we're running out of time now, but our
actual one final question and then you can in that final.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Question give your clothing thoughts to this conversation.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
So, looking ahead, what scientific breakthroughs or approaches do you
believe or define the future of food safety in Nigeria.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
I would say that one of the major breakthroughs that
we should look we should look out for is the
use of data now, that is the combination of both
data and.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
A scientific lab research.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Now we at the moment, for example, we don't know
currently we don't have a particular data bank that has
some common traditional food and the associated micro.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Macroorganisms that can cause problems. I start to be corrected.
If there is any I really love to know.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
So I see alls building a data infrastructure system for
our food now, when we have that in place, when
we have our own indigenous data, not basing our data
on a lot of estimates because that's what happens these
days because of the problem, because of lack of data
on the field, we estimate a lot. So I see
(37:50):
the advance of data and by extension, official intelligence if
we use it effectively to help us to solve the
problem of food safety issues. Now I'm one of the ways,
one of the typical ways that can happen.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Okay, our buildy scenario.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Now, let's assume that we have a data infrastructure that
has most or if not all of the common Nigeria
indigenous food products.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Then that data looks at how it's.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
Being processed, identified the hazards in those food products and
identify the risks in those food products.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
So you have the hazard, you have the risk, and
talking about the risk you put into your factor.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
You're put into concideration the time, the temperature, the pH
that is required two to get to get rid of
the of those hazards and then we have them stored
in the database.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Now, imagine how how these data infrastructure can be used.
For example, that woman that.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
That restaurant that is about to start cooking but doesn't
have the financial, the capital capability or the techniqual know
how to run affresh all their products like to run
like lab tastes afresh. All their product can simply clean
into the data interface and see, okay, I want to
(39:23):
I want to make for example, gelo fries and these
are the list of the incredent that is lies you
put in those risks and then you put it puns
your boating and by the use of AI and with
that that time infrastructure, it gives me immediately the potential
hazard in what you're about to prepare and how to
mitigate too. You see, so this this will go in,
(39:48):
This will go a long way to make most of
our food safe.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
So if you ask me, it's see.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
One singular advancement in technology and science that can help
Nigeria right now is investment in daytime infrastructure and development
of official intelligence.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Thank you so much, doctor Nicholas.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
We're over time, but thank you so much for sharing
this thought and you know, opening our eyes to see
the role that science plays behind every mail on our plate.
Distinguished audience, please join me the time, doctor Nicholas, for
is brilliant insights into the team for this world for
safety day food safety, science and action. See we come
(40:31):
away next time on the ENEA. As you Readio podcast,
keep enjoying safe Mails. Happy World Food Safety Day. Thank
you very much,
Hello again and welcome to the NSG podcast on ANSG Radio.
It's so good to have you and today we have
celebrated the World International Food and Safety Day and our
topic today is a science behind your meal. How food
safety research is preventing illness, redising costs and protecting lives.
The twenty twenty five World Food Safety Day team that
(00:26):
I just mentioned to you under scores the indispensable role
of science and ensuring that the food we eat is
both safe, nutritious, and fit for consumption. As food systems
become increasingly globally complex, the application of scientific knowledge from
laboratories to food production and policy making is more critical
(00:46):
than ever. Each year, an estimated six hundred million people
worldwide fall ill after consuming on safe food, with four
hundred and twenty thousand fatalities, including two hundred one hundred
and twenty five one thousand children under the age of five,
according to the World Health Organization the Budding of food
Borne Illnesses. This approportionally affects law and middle income countries
(01:11):
such as Nigeria, where GABS and regulatory enforcement, cerviillance, infrastructure,
and public awareness remains significant. However, through the lens of science,
these challenges can be transformed into opportunities for innovation.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Prevention and progress.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And today I'm so glad to have with us a scientist,
mister Nicholas Alifa, who is a PhD Research candidate and
food science at the University of Reading in the United Kingdom,
with over a decade of experience translating food system information
into actionable insights for industries, policy makers and consumers. Is
the Scientific Assystem at the Institute of Food Science and
(01:48):
Technology in the United Kingdom. It leases the information and
communication strategy for the United Kingdom Research and Information funded
Smart People, Smart Process, Smart Factory Project at the National
Center for Food Manufacturing, University of Lincoln. Nicolas is the
founding executive of the Center for African Food Research and
(02:08):
Innovation and lease the Food System to Martive Group of
the Community of Practice for You at the Nigerian.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Economic Summer Group.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
You're welcome, mister Nicholas, and it's so good to have
you on the podcast today.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me this evening.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Let's dive right into it.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I'll start with a very general question, what does food safety,
science and action meant to you in the context of
today's global food system.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Okay, to answer that question, I would love to break
it down to what science is actually in relations to food,
because when you talk about science and food these days,
people tend to raise eyebrows as if science is the
enemy when it comes to food. People don't want to
hear about science, especially when people to think about people
on lab codes with chinic coals and the rist. So
(02:59):
in the same in iss simplest form, science is just
a way of acting questions and finding answer based on evidence.
It's science that makes us to understand why do people
foresake when they eat a batch of swear all, what
kind of bacteria can surviving negosi is suit for left overnight?
And how long can tomatoes stay a fresh before the covert.
(03:21):
So science helps also develop questions around these scenarios and
fine answers to them. So science is just more than
a people in white coats. It's it's the is the
core thing about food and food safety. Now bringing it
home and to answer your question about food safety science
and action into to the global system, I would love
(03:44):
to say that it emphasizes scientific knowledge or the application
of scientific knowledge at all stages of food chain to
keep our food safe.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Now, in today's globalized food system.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
This means having the best avaluable science would from microbiology
down to data analytics to informost how we produce, process.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
And handle food.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Now, the twenty twenty five word word food safety datam
underlies the vital role of science in advancing knowledge to
protect food, while also highlighting that all stakeholders, including government,
industrial and consumers most put to knowledge and into action
through policies, practices, and deliciouss. So we are simply saying
(04:32):
science in actions simply means having scientific facts, acting on
those scientific facts as guidance at every step to ensure
that food is saved for everyone. So, in practical terms,
is the decision that is based on science, not guestwork.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Not.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
I would say conspiracy theory, not just senses, but evident
baked scientific knowledge.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I'm really glad you mentioned I'm really glad you mentioned
conspiracy because people over the time have not trusted science.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
A lot when it comes to food safety issue.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
How would you say the food safety research world that's
evolved over the last decay, particularly in response to emerging risk.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Well, thank you for that wonderful question, and like you,
like Redley said, it's a major problem for both consumers
because science had actually made our food saver, whether you
like it or not.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
But we have now entered.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
An error where information is democratized.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Anyone can just say anything from their head.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Based on what the field and most of the time
those things they say it seems logical, but then it's
not evidence based, and so it's been a very major
problem for food safety concern globally. Now, talking about the
evolution of food safety research over the last few decades,
I would love to start from how we have evolved
(06:14):
rapidly from in the way we respond to food safety
Before now, food safety used to be a reactive response
in terms of when people eat food the forth sick,
then we take them to the hospital and find out
what did they eat to make them for sick. But
(06:36):
with the advent of science, we have moved from that
to a preventive risk based approach. What do I mean
now there is now a scientific and systematic process in
place to ensure that the food you consume are safe
even before you consume them. So science had helped us
to move from chorices from a reactive response to food
(06:58):
safety two more of a prevent a preventive response. It
has also empowered regulators and scientists to focus on preventing
hazards before they cost hamp. For example, we can now
use data to identify the high rix foods and then
implement stricter controls.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
On known trouble sports. Now give you an example.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Now it is scientifically which has been proven that food
with low water content or we call it most of
your content as we call it, that food that are
dried are not they are resistant or they do not
support the growth of microaganisms. But food that are fresh,
that have high water content, they are prone to the
(07:41):
growth of microaganism, including including the one that costs HAMP.
So science has helped us, the knowledge of science as
opposed to to identify that those food should they are
called the high rich food and then we now implement
strict damages to prevent and to ensure their safety. Sotantly,
we science, I suppose, help used to broaden the emerging risk.
(08:04):
For example, climate change is now recognized as this significant driver.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
For food safety issues.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Recently, studies have linked warming of temperature and extreme weather
to increase survivor of food bone microaganisms. So with the
with the advent of science, we've been able to we
we've been able to identify that what is the impact
of climate change on food risk and then help us
to look for a way to guide it correctly.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Subsequently, and finally in.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Terms of the emerging food safety risk is novel foods
well do not popular in our side of the world,
but there are no There are new food that are
coming up, like cultivated meat, that's meat that is made
from this culture instead of from animal bodies, reformulated plant
(08:56):
based protein to mimic animal protein. These are novel foods
and science are so for us also rates to to
the concerned to help us keep this save and keep
this food save. So you can see the trend, you
can see how science are image over the years.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Can you can you explain further the scientific process behind
identifying a footballe hazard and how that translates into safer
food on our plates.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Okay, thank you so much for that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
So in terms of the scientific process, it varies depending
on who is carrying out the process.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
The process for regulators is.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
Not the same as the process for food food proces,
food food producers, or manufacturers. But generally for regulators we
have the first thing in scient in identify or in
making food save. The first step of the process is
what we call hazard identification.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
When we talk about hazard.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
We are talking about the potential of a food or
a substance in the food to.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Cause ham to make you for sic.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
So has that scientists detect the potential food bone hazard
such as hampful bacterium, virus, parasite, or chemical toxins. And
this might happen through routine monitoring, for example, testing food
in the product lab for those in the in manufacturing sector,
or random selection of food samples from shelves and analyzing
(10:25):
them for those in the regulatory sector, or through what
you call the epidemiology investigation, where you look at a
group of a group of people and like who has
a particular sickness and try to trace that sickness to
a particular kind of food or a particular way they
prepared your food. So has that identification is the first
is the first step in is the first scientific step
(10:47):
in making food safe. That follows by risk assessment. Now,
has that and risk are not the same thing. Has
that is the potential of a food or substance the
food to cause ham.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Risk is the.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
Measure of of how that potential is likely to occur
the likelier occurrence.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I'll give you an example. Now we have identified that they.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Say hazard in cassaver and this hazard has the potential
to cause health, to cause health issues.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
So that's a hazard.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
But then risk looks at what is the what is
the measure or what is the level at which this
can occur. So when you look at taking the food
through the processes, does the processes reduced the chance or
the yeah, the chances of that occurring. So let's talk
about risk. So the next step is to assess the risk.
(11:48):
Assessing risk means looking around the processing is there any
processing step that can remove the hazard or is there
any any processing step that can make the food more
promptally hazard like those heating removed it kills the bacteria.
And if it kills the bacteria at what level, at
what percentage? So this process announced that that is and
(12:09):
then at the end of the day we come up
with risk communications and come up with a standard or
called the standard operating procedures to help us deal with
these different hazard For example, if you have identified that
a particular bacteria is liable to survive in a particular
kind of food, and this bacteria.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
That means that's hazard.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Then if this bacteria only survive at a temperature between
thirty seven to literally a room temperature between thirty seven
to stay twenty five degrees integrade, that's a rik assessment.
You have assessed the risks to know at what temperature
this particular bacterium can survive.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
So you come up with a standard.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
It's either you heat up the food above that seven
degrees c integrates to inactivated the particlar bacteria, or you
reduce the temperature like storage in cost temperature maybe for
the grease integrate, or care about so that it can
in that it can it can help prevent that bacteria
(13:13):
from going. So the first step is reassessment. The second step,
I mean the first type is has that identification. The
second sept step is risk assessment and its top step
is standard development. And the first step is communication. Now
after we have developed the standard, we don't communicate to
people producing the food. So okay, look, you can't keep
your your for example, you can't keep your milk below
(13:36):
for the great integrates and for more than social number
of days. And that's based on scientific knowledge. So that's
the process that we follow.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
It's quite interesting, and I really really love science. You
really break it down in such a way that anyone
who is not a scientist can easily easily follow. Let's
let's come to the prevent of illnesses. Which football pathogens
remain the greatest threats to public health today and how
is science helping us detect or control them more effectively?
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Okay, now, the interesting part of football pathogens is that
we have millions and thousands of microaganisms that are that
are liable to cost sickness when they are value going food.
But the good thing is that majority of them are
good microaganisms.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
That's that's that's how nature design it. Majority.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Only a few of them are copeople of cossing illness.
But those few that are people of cossing illness can
cause major, major problem if if they're not kept out
of food. So talking about the popular one today that
we are still dealing with, a good example is the
Campulu bacter and they are responsible for cousing the area
(14:53):
what we call rny stomaching nineria, sorry the neuro virus
for I mean they're responsible for causing therea work called
the running stomach and vomiting. And also bacteria like cuculo
bacter as well. We also have other organisms that like
Samonella which which are the popular and some TYPEE which
(15:15):
as you may know, they are very common with causing
of typhoid and the surviving water. And then we also
have echoli not all equalized, the particular strain of echoline
known as the O one five the ecolomi is the
some people call it strisercli or call it s steric coli.
So these are some of the pathogenic microaganism. Of course,
(15:35):
we can also forget the least tramonocytogenies that is very deadly,
especially for.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
Pregnant women and for elderly people.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
And they are they are, they are, They are present
in foods like diairy and delimits and rests. So these
are some of the food food football pathogens that we
are still we are still delivered today. But the good
news is that we we have identified them as hazards
and we have been able to assess their risk, and
(16:04):
we have been able to set standard procedures that food processors,
restaurants and even household consumers needs to follow in order
to be able to keep this, to keep this, to
keep this out of our food and keep us safe.
And of course we will not want to forget the
other major ones that is popular, especially in a part
(16:27):
of the world where comes alongside with meat, something like
tape one that causes illnesses and the likes. So these
are some of the current pathogens that we are struggling
with at the moment. Now let's to now to not
talk about how science is helping enough to overcome some
of these pathogens. The modern technology has dramatically improved how
(16:49):
our ability to detect contamination and identify outbreaks faster. For example,
with the advance of DNA sequencing, specifically what we call
the whole General sequence, that is the WGS, it allows
laboratories to determine the exact finger fingerprints of bacteria from
sick patients and contaminative foods by single print. By fingerprint,
(17:12):
I mean it helpos to to you know, when you forsic,
for example, and go to the hospital and they take
your tool and then the what they want to do
is they want to analyze your tool and look and
look at what are some of the metabolites. By metabolites
is like say the escret of some of these microganisms,
and they are valuable in in your tool or in
(17:33):
your RNI, and they are available. It can tell you
that these particular sequences caused by these particular microgronisms, and
that is that is possible by general sequences. So that's
how science is helping us to identify them if if
there's an outbreak, for example, we also help us to
have to have what we call an unparallel accuracy and
(17:56):
speed in factosene detection and source atribution. You know, one
of the major things, one of the major ways to
deal with food bone outbreaks and footblle pathogy is to
orderstand where they come from. Okay, and there's a lot
of food that people consume and a lot of maybe
a lot of people passes through different the passes through
different restaurants. But with the aid of modern technology in
(18:20):
modern in modern countries, we hope we have them. So
in Nigeria, there's what we've got this a foodceability foodsability
technology that can help us to identify if this bacteria
is happening or if this particular food bone outbreak is
happening in a Budjet for example. It's there are technology
that will help us identify the source, where does it
(18:42):
come from?
Speaker 3 (18:43):
So These are some of the ways that science.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Protocols and have helped us to identify. Another way is
with the aid of science, we have been able to
develop what we call the good manufacturing practice or the
good hygienic practice, which are six standard that every fruit
handler must be most follow in order to keep food safe.
(19:06):
It is the knowledge of science that help us to
identify what has to be done. For example, one of
the normally to people is when you buy your meeting
and genial tends to wash those meats, right, but it
truces that what in the meat does not remove the contamination. Rather,
what it does is that it caused the microorganism to
(19:27):
spread in your passion.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
It caused the microaganism to spread to your plate.
Speaker 4 (19:32):
It casts them to spread to to order food, other food,
other things that you that you know eat as much.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
But when you hit your.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
Meat, it kind of it kills or maybe the word
kill is not it's not the most scientifically accurate, but
let me form to use that for a leman. It
tends to kill the microaganisms, so it do not make
you seek. But then those microganisms that you have scattered
all over the place in your late by washing those meat,
(20:02):
and you don't, you will not hit your plate for
restance before you eat them. So you if you use
the same plate to fresh the macrologism, you might have
destroyed the macroaganism by cooking it in your in your
in your in your meat, but you haven't destroyed them
because the plates were not heated. So the science made
us to understand that the best thing to do is
when you buy a meat, cook them directly, because when
(20:26):
you wash them, there is more. There is more there,
they said, It says proof that express the microaganisms around,
so there is no there is no need for you
to wash your meat before you cook them. I know
this may not stand well with us, because in the
part of the country we come from, we tend to
wash everything before we eat. Another thing is, with the
(20:47):
aid of science we have been able to identify to
how to prevent cross contamination. For example, that you don't
use the same shopping board that you used to cut
your vegetables and all to use the same shopping board
to cut your meat, because naturally we don't eat vegetables
for a long time the way we hit meat.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
So if you use the.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
Same shopping but there's potential for cross contamination, and when
that happens and those vegetables are not well heated, you
discover that you begin you also begin to have problems.
So these are some of the things that have been
able to come to understand by the aid of science,
and we need to communicate this out there so that
people can follow this example. I don't know if I
(21:31):
should stop at this way, have to continue.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Wow wow, wow, this is quite interesting because I personally
have cooked a few times and never knew that you're
not supposed to use the same chopping board for both
meat and vegetables. Quite quite insight to suppose to your stay.
Let's now switch to you know, some economic impact. Because
the World band reports over one hundred and ten million
dollar loss in annual losses due to save food in
(21:56):
both low and middle income countries. How can science opposed
to mitigate these economic losses?
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Well, talking about economic losses like you mentioned, I think
one of the major ways to do that, especially from
a part of the world.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Is to begin to see.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
The economic impact of unsaved practices with food. Okay, there
is no there is no let me say, there's no
magic ones. If you don't follow the good safety procedure.
The probability of getting sick from food is high. So
(22:41):
the first thing is that the food handlers, talking about
the manufacturers, the restaurants and even consumers should understand that
what it takes to follow the right food safety procedure
is less expensive than the costs of food bone outbreak.
(23:08):
So this is the first thing we need to understand,
and this has to be from different sectors.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
Let me start from the government.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Now, the government can save a whole lot of money
economically if.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
We invest in standard.
Speaker 4 (23:24):
Food safety practices, whether we invest in laboratories that have
that are up to date, state of the that are
our up to dated, state of the art technologies that
can help us in identifying food bone pathogens. Now, the danger,
the danger we have in the in our part of
(23:44):
the world is that we hoppy or we tend to
you know, rely on the Western worlds for for identifications
of pathogens in food and the rest. But our food
matrices are not the same. In fact, temperature and a
weather condition are.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Not the same.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
So what works for them may not work for us.
So we need to come up with you need to
invest in this infrastructure so that we can be able
to come up with our own standard.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Fall on me to.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Look how need so we need to We're supposed to
see that as an investment for to secorde the economy
for economic growth, so because it has both macro and
the microeconomic implications good for the good for the individuals
and for the public. So another thing we also need
(24:36):
to look at is we need improved infrastructure. Like I said,
we need improved regulations. We need to invest in improved regulations.
When I was younger, there was these public health people
that used to come around. You know, they used to
come around that grew up in the village. So they
come around every maybe once in a month, and they
(24:58):
look They go into your kitch and they look at
your caches, and then they see how you're keeping your
kitchen in place. They make sure that the kitchen is
not close to lattering, and then they give advice.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
But as I.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Continue to grow, I'm not a very old but does
things disappeared. You do not have public health practitioners coming
around to do all those things.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
So people in the role area don't don't even.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Have this this this understanding of they don't understand the
scientific application of some food safety practices, and so they
are left with guessing and at the end of the day,
we are having.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
A lot going to food safety issues.
Speaker 4 (25:36):
So we need to invest more in regulations. Let's have
a trained public safety personnel. Yes, we are doing a
lot when it comes to dig manufacturing companies and processed food.
That's because once that happens, the risk can be very high,
it can spread so fast. But then what happened to
(25:57):
the mamma pulls, what happened to the to the use
at the bottom of the pyramids? That that that that
deals directly with the consumers. We say have a lot
to do in that aspect. We need to invest in regulations.
We also need to invent what I call in scientific
communications to change people's behavior towards food safety and the
(26:21):
scientific the scientific communications and be done using the same
public health that talked about. You have a strong and
very strong public health that interface with it with the
general consumers, and we can do we can start to
break them down into simpler levelage.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
See, food safety is not a rocket science. It's simple thing.
It's logic.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
It's like just the way I explained how to why
not why you should not to watch your meat for example,
or why you should not shop your meat on the
same board. Now, if you if you explain that to
a layman and you give them and made them see
that reasons they are scientific principles, they are scientific.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Backed data, but then you are explaining it in a
simple way that people can understand.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
So for us to be able to save the economic laws,
we need to first of all invest in the alternative,
because if we don't invest in the alternative, then we'll
have to waste the money in the food safety and
safe with the economic loss.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Quite interesting that you speaking lots to the issue of
regulation in your own experience. What are the challenges in
translating scientific findings into enforceable regulations.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
I think the first thing, or the first problem we
have is now the pace of scientific innovation versus the
pace of policy making. I mean, it's it's it's the
truth is people are in the lab every day. They're
coming up with with with new with new technology, they're
coming up with new findings, they're coming up with with
(27:52):
new ways that we should keep our food safe. But
then you understand that policy making is not As that
first example, I can remember the food the food the
National Food Safety and Quality Bill. If you remember that
the end years you work alongside with other partners.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
I was, I was fortunate to know to be part
of that bill.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
And the bill started since two thousand, I think for
as long as two thousand and if I can remember,
if my brain can help me, well, for since two
thousand and one thousand and two, and it was not
until around twenty twenty four that the bill was passed.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
So that is four years.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
That is four years in passion, in particularly, and I
want to assure you that within those pillods of four years,
science have moved on. As a matter of fact, as
a scientist, as your researcher, if your paper is more
than five years, you should be very conscious in citing.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
The people in your published work.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
That's mean science is saying that after five years that
findings may not be valid again. But then it takes
the five four five four to five years to develop
a particular a policy or a bill.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
So the pace at.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
To scientific innovation is moving is faster than the pace
achieved policy making.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
And of course you can you cannot. You cannot.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Make regulations, science based regulations without have the first of
four translate those scientific fundlies into policies.
Speaker 5 (29:24):
So you see the gard So We need to see how,
how how we should be able to measure those caups,
and one of the ways is that, yes, I respect
for policy formulaters, but then we should also have people
that are in whose science, in policy development people so
that we can so policies should be.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
Tracking scientific discoveries, so people that are in power research
to be part of the discussion so that when something
is happening they can it can be up to day.
Another major challenge is resource and capacity constraints, especially in
the part in a party the world two hundred and
fifty over twoudred and fifty million people and more than
(30:07):
seventy percent of our food of our food business is
run informally. Now it's easier to it's easier to regulate
big companies, but very difficult to regulate small companies because
there are a lot of them, and of course we
have results, we have resource and capacity constraint to do that.
(30:30):
So we need to also begin to see what majures,
what strategy can we put in place now that cannot
be everywhere. As a matter of fact, I don't think
we expect enough of that to go and start regulating
Ma marputs. They have other better things to do in
their hands. That's why we need to strengthen our public
health system and we need to.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
Use indigenous people.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Imagine, if every voting center has a functional public health system,
one or two persons that are into public health, it
just is not rockay science. So if every voting center
has one or two persons that are that that are
constantly and consistently helping to enforce that to keep the
public safe, so we need to look at and so
(31:14):
resource and capacity constraint. It's another media and under media
sage that we are facing. And like I also said,
we are facing industry and public acceptance of science. Now
it's a major problem. It's a major problem in a
world where where you know, typically researchers and scientists are
(31:36):
not are not let me say so to say efficient,
let me let me know the efficient. So they're not eloquent,
so to say, they're not like, they're not marketers, they're
not influencers. And so when an influence a form of
social media and then pick something that he something that
has to have big knowledge about and then making some
(31:58):
some scientifically inner curate claims, people tends to believe them
more because it's.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
What they're hearing.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
So so it's a major problem with that we're facing
now about the industry and the public acceptance of science.
So scivice, for example, scientific findings may suggest is stick
to controls for new practices. Well, then people may like,
come on now because of the okay, because of one
of the things one to all the other day, they
(32:25):
just said like, okay, this doesn't what I want to do.
The just want to do it the way I want.
And that is the major problem when it comes to regulation.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Why it's quite interesting that you spoke about the fact
that didn't Trust is still an issue. How do we
get consumers to better understand and trust the science behind
that food?
Speaker 4 (32:44):
I think the I think if you ask me, and
that's and that's only the thing that I've decided to
commit myself to doing.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
We need communicators.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
We need scientists that are trained communicators, like we need
science that are able to calm down from from from
from the amountain and bring down scientific principle in simple
everyday language.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
Now.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Growing up, I used to see science as some mythical
stuff that that's that are not touchable.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
But science is natural.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Actually, there's not a new science is simply exploring what's
what's happening around us. So there is so we need
more people that are trained to be science communicators, right
so so so that at the end of the day,
like I'm able to tell the stories of science in
(33:34):
a way that it's simple enough for people to understand
yet scientifically accurate because we're having at the moment.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
What is bringing about these these public trust issue is when.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
People who are not scientists quote and unquote, you know,
pick scientific discovery and then over simplify the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
I'll give you an example. Recently, I read I read.
Speaker 4 (34:02):
A paper in fact is what it was, a pair
review paper that talks about processed food.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
In the paper was listing food that is a handful.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Substances such as high fast, high salt, high sugar of cod.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
That's true by way to say processed food.
Speaker 4 (34:26):
Now you understand, you could see that he has listed
he has tacked processed food as a half as a
handful substance.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
And not knowing that we we're talking about when we talk.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
About processed, processing means converting food into a more palatable
or a more extended of life. While we have some
processing that can be handful, it's not all processing that
are handful. For example, the process it takes to convert
your your cone to augie is processing and ugly. It's
(35:00):
one of the most healthy food that you can consume.
So when people and when people don't understand that that
that jargons, it tends to erode those public in public trusts.
So we need more people that are trained scientific science,
that are trained to be public communicators breaking down science
(35:21):
principle in simpler language yet in an accurate way for
people to understand. And that thing also is we need
to I don't know how this is going to happen
because we need.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
To also translate science.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
With respect to our culture, with respect to our background.
We need to use examples and illustration and analogies with
what people are used to every day. So when you're
out there talking about your atoms and your molecules and
your compounds and your bacteriums and whatsoever, people may not
understand them.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So we need to look. We need to see how
we how we can devise to say.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
These things in a way that people can relate, especially
given a knowledge is that it's close to us, that
it's something that weig can we can actually use.
Speaker 3 (36:12):
So these are some of the ways that we can.
I know it's it's a.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
Very complex thing, but we need to take steps, and
I thank god a lot of people are taking steps
at that at different point.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
But we need to learn, we need to do more.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Thanks, thank you very much, Thank you very much, doctor Nicholas.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
I know we're running out of time now, but our
actual one final question and then you can in that final.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Question give your clothing thoughts to this conversation.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
So, looking ahead, what scientific breakthroughs or approaches do you
believe or define the future of food safety in Nigeria.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
I would say that one of the major breakthroughs that
we should look we should look out for is the
use of data now, that is the combination of both
data and.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
A scientific lab research.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
Now we at the moment, for example, we don't know
currently we don't have a particular data bank that has
some common traditional food and the associated micro.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Macroorganisms that can cause problems. I start to be corrected.
If there is any I really love to know.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
So I see alls building a data infrastructure system for
our food now, when we have that in place, when
we have our own indigenous data, not basing our data
on a lot of estimates because that's what happens these
days because of the problem, because of lack of data
on the field, we estimate a lot. So I see
(37:50):
the advance of data and by extension, official intelligence if
we use it effectively to help us to solve the
problem of food safety issues. Now I'm one of the ways,
one of the typical ways that can happen.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Okay, our buildy scenario.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Now, let's assume that we have a data infrastructure that
has most or if not all of the common Nigeria
indigenous food products.
Speaker 3 (38:20):
Then that data looks at how it's.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
Being processed, identified the hazards in those food products and
identify the risks in those food products.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
So you have the hazard, you have the risk, and
talking about the risk you put into your factor.
Speaker 4 (38:38):
You're put into concideration the time, the temperature, the pH
that is required two to get to get rid of
the of those hazards and then we have them stored
in the database.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Now, imagine how how these data infrastructure can be used.
For example, that woman that.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
That restaurant that is about to start cooking but doesn't
have the financial, the capital capability or the techniqual know
how to run affresh all their products like to run
like lab tastes afresh. All their product can simply clean
into the data interface and see, okay, I want to
(39:23):
I want to make for example, gelo fries and these
are the list of the incredent that is lies you
put in those risks and then you put it puns
your boating and by the use of AI and with
that that time infrastructure, it gives me immediately the potential
hazard in what you're about to prepare and how to
mitigate too. You see, so this this will go in,
(39:48):
This will go a long way to make most of
our food safe.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
So if you ask me, it's see.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
One singular advancement in technology and science that can help
Nigeria right now is investment in daytime infrastructure and development
of official intelligence.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Thank you so much, doctor Nicholas.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
We're over time, but thank you so much for sharing
this thought and you know, opening our eyes to see
the role that science plays behind every mail on our plate.
Distinguished audience, please join me the time, doctor Nicholas, for
is brilliant insights into the team for this world for
safety day food safety, science and action. See we come
(40:31):
away next time on the ENEA. As you Readio podcast,
keep enjoying safe Mails. Happy World Food Safety Day. Thank
you very much,
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