45, With Bede and Sophie discussing Our Vision for Raumati

Discussions with Bede Laracy, Raumati Community Board Chair, and Sophie Handford, Paekakariki / Paraparaumu Ward Councillor.
Both at Kapiti Coast District Council.

We discuss ‘Our Vision for Raumati’: a facilitated exploration of local urban initiatives for people and place.
This is a dynamic voice of local residents and describes a future vision of their local township, within a coastal district from hills to sea.
A successful public survey culminated in masterful cartographic imagery, communicating multiple ideas and concepts, with purpose for immediate and long-term action.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, This is Rosalind Derby herefor July like the larchitechen now, and
we have wonderfully two of our localcommunity board and ward councilors Sophie Hanford everybody

(00:27):
will know and Bead Larissie. You'llknow them both and you probably know why
they're here. They're going to betalking about our vision for round Mattie,
which as an urban design advocate Ifind pretty gripping bead as by way of
introduction before I let you guys talkthrough, this is chair of Ramani Community

(00:49):
Board, founder of our vision forKaperty and Deputy chair of Capputy Chamber of
Commerce. And Sophie is our wellknown ram Mattie Pacak Ricky Ward Counselor at
Kapty Coast District Council. So ofcourse I saw this in the paper and
then I was doing a course atKada down at the airport one day and

(01:11):
these beautiful images what I would callcartographic abstract graphic design, but you can
go further and deeply into that.We're on the wall. And so I
had a bit of time to lookat them and then I really got it
and I thought, well, youknow, these are really communicating. These
are a dialogue tool. There's alot going on and there's a sort of
real commitment to presentation, so thatthese three images really communicate and enable conversation

(01:38):
to kick start. So how didit all get start? I mean you've
only been in council since October lastyear, So did this think kick off
at that point? Because it's apretty quick turnaround, right, so it
actually predates the election last year.So yeah, I was elected onto the
Ramedy Community Board and the October election. Sophie will Is already the Pike Okaicky

(02:00):
Remedy Ward counselor. Before then,I had stood against her in the twenty
nineteen election, which she was successful, and but we had worked together with
various things in Raumaddy since then,including the establishment of the Remedy Community Board,
so that you know, and gettingacross that across the line was you

(02:22):
know, a big win I thinkand really good for Ramaddy, not specifically,
so what we used to have wasat a council level we had Pike
Cokaicki and Raumaeddy Ward and then PartamiRamatty Community Board. So we were looking
at that going well, Remedy doesn'treally have its own voice it's kind of

(02:43):
attached to other things, but surelyRawmaddy is significant enough to have its own
board and certainly has its own voice. So we petitioned for that and eventually
the powers that be accepted our plea, so that so that was formed.
And so that was the first electionlast year, and so I was the

(03:07):
inaugural chair of the Ramedy Community Board. Yeah, but this project actually predates
that that election. We started.It's hard to say exactly when we first
started talking, but about March Aprillast year, we was when we put

(03:28):
out for the survey that created thebasis for that image. Prior to that,
we had talked about Row Maddy andyou know, what was going on,
what's its future? And we decidedthat really it needed a longer term
vision for the area if it wasgoing to be developed, which eventually things
will, and that if that wasgoing to happen, it should be community

(03:51):
led, not you know, ledfrom the top. So our approach was
really not so much as elected peopleor whatever. We were just residents going
how should we kind of make thishappen? And so that survey was really
initially intended to get the views ofpeople, what do you think of row,

(04:11):
Maddie, what's your engagement with variousthings? And so we set out
a whole lot of very open endedquestions, got lots of really good answers,
and it was those views that wetook to an illustrator to create the
image. Okay, so we're settingup a survey. Was it a little
box drop? Was it that peoplecould come and see that, come to

(04:34):
a particular point and contribute the ideasor what? It was? Mostly?
Facebook? We got it. Wesent it out through Facebook, but we
also emailed it out to lots oflocal groups and asked them to spread the
word and get it out as muchas possible. We didn't do a physical

(04:55):
one as such probably goes against somepeople's climate change objectives. What have you?
To have printed paper? But itwas also it ends up being quite
expensive and clunky to do it thatway. Sure, but we certainly open
as we go to ways that peoplecan engage. Yeah, so when you

(05:15):
did the survey, was that agraphic document as well? No, it's
some sort of graphic appeal to littleso just a bunch of questions. No,
that the survey was kind of toform the basis of what we now
have, which is kind of thealmost the second phase of engagement on this
vision project. So the survey itselfhad some images which we thought would kind

(05:36):
of prompt people to think, Like, for example, we had very muchy
village you know back I don't knowhow many odd years ago it was,
but you know, forty fifty yearsago, and then a photo of how
it looks today, And so justencouraging people, I guess, to consider
what change could look like and whatit has looked like, and then kind
of getting them to pause in thismoment and reflect on what they value about

(05:59):
the place. And we wanted tomake sure that the questions we asked kind
of didn't just evoke the tangible thatactually evoked kind of people's sense of pride
or reflection on what they really seeas being special or different about Omatty.
So we asked questions like why Domatty. So people into it for a bit
in so many different ways. Youknow, from the beach, the people

(06:24):
said the beach, or they saidthe fact that we've got, you know,
the hills behind us were sheltered bythis beautiful environment that we really need
to protect and enhance. People talkedabout the connection to each other, to
to the local schools which they reallyvalue, to the local kind of boutique
business feel. We asked questions like, how do you currently move around?
How do you want to move around? So I guess instead of providing people

(06:47):
with images to give feedback on,we kind of tried to get them to
create their own images in their intheir minds, which then, yeah,
has led us to the graphic thatwe have in front of us, which
we're then using to unlock more feedback to Yeah, to then kind of
continue developing the vision idea. Yeah, I mean it's obviously been successful to

(07:08):
this point. I mean, I'vefound over the decades in Cavity this kind
of survey, community consultant engagement,and it gets done in quite a big
way. But there's very much,you know, there's that sense of we
don't want to tell people what to, we don't want to show them what
we're going to do. But thathas been quite limiting because people are expected
to answer questions without any triggers,without any visual triggers, without any kind

(07:30):
of sense of expertise behind it thatyou know something can be done. But
obviously your visual approach has worked andgiven people some sort of ownership so that
you're getting a kind of response thatis that is actually workable. Yeah,
and that's exactly kind of what we'reaiming to do with us is have it
be by community for community, andso wanting to make sure that yeah,

(07:54):
people know, it's not our project. It's not you know, the Bead
and Sophie project. That's not acommunity board project even as such, it's
a it's a project that we hopethat the community feels, yeah, like
they have a sense of ownership ofand they can see themselves and their views
reflected in and and if they wantto get involved, you know, we're
we're more than happy to to createthe space for others to be a part

(08:16):
of leading this process in this project. So it's not it's it's very much
kind of collectively owned and collaborated on. And it has been to this point
as well. We've had some reallyawesome community members you know, choose to
to to give their time to thisproject and yeah, which is really cool
to see as are. So there'sbeen a pretty positive response, some some
obvious kind of they saying negatively imaginenegativity and people concerned about rates and all

(08:41):
that sort of usual kind of mantra, but um, it's it's actually drawn
together people in a really good direction. Yeah, And I think because it's
quite it quite clearly has a purpose. You know that we're trying to we're
trying to make a case for Amatti'sfuture, and you know, we're change
the positive things that can arise fromthat, the opportunities through it. And

(09:03):
yeah, I think because there aresome things that are quite easy winds,
low hanging fruits in there, butthere are also longer term projects or respirations.
We've also worked done really closely withcouncil staff throughout this process despite it
not being a council project. Butthe Chief Executive is super on board,
the senior leadership team, council lawsare kind of really valuing the process.

(09:24):
And yes, and therefore the weightof this, yeah, the vision so
far. Yeah. Yeah, Andif you can have communications such that you're
actually able to connect with counselors withdecision makings of council, but those people
residents on the ground, including forcitizen tourists and people who come to just
for the day to cavity, thenyou're getting that ability to make things happen

(09:48):
because the communication is balanced across residentsand backed by counsel. Yeah, I
mean obviously you're both in council andyou've got communication skills, so that was
a help. And so when you'vegot these graphic images of people's ideas and

(10:09):
these really delightful little drawings which reallydo evoke engagement to me at least,
and there's quite a lot of sortof storytelling, but a lot of it
is is meaningful to how I relateto cavity and remedy. So it touches
on a kind of kind of universalexperience of what we as locals actually expect

(10:33):
and seal and kind of envision.Actually that's the word here, right,
And so yeah, so how didyou brief your graphic design or who was
the graphic design or is that behindthe scenes. Well, well, first
of all, that's really interesting feedbackand good to have things rosalind, because
that's certainly how we feel, isthat it is a representation of how the
community itself feels about remedy. Soit's good when people say that that's the

(10:54):
case. But we sat down,so Lisa Richardson, who's based in Pike
or Goriki, is the graphic designerhere. We took the information that we
had from the survey. There wasalso back in two thousand and seven or
so, there was a whole lotof consultation done by Counsel around local outcomes

(11:16):
plans, and one was done forRealmedy. Back then we were involved through
the business that we had in thevillage, you know, putting stickers on
pictures and all that sort of sortof stuff, and the plan at that
time was to lead to an upgradefor Remedy Township, which never happened.
But that local outcomes document was somethingthat we gave to Lisa as well.

(11:37):
And in twenty twenty, First Retailwere commissioned by Counsel to do a sort
of a retail strategy for Realmedy Village, and so we gave her that as
well, just to give a reallygood full picture of information, including the
responses from the survey. Yeah,yeah, but the two people do little
sketches or did they throw in picturesof no, no, no, it

(11:58):
was all typed out answers. Yeah, But we took all that information and
we just sat and talked her throughwhat it was that we wanted to do,
what we wanted to achieve, howwe wanted to go about it,
and She just magically captured what wewere trying to do and came up with

(12:20):
the images which are in front.How could we argue with them? They
so beautifully captured what it was wewere trying to do. Yeah, and
so we So what we chose anddidn't choose is probably useful to communicate.
We helped choose some of the lookin the field of the picture and help
guide that a little bit, didyou in terms of this kind of semi

(12:43):
cartoon not cartoonish, but it's alittle She came up with that, and
of course we were happy with that. We're like, this is great,
So we gave her that sort offeedback. What we didn't choose is what
ideas were expressed from that information.So we didn't sit through and sift from
those answers. We like this ideaand we don't like that idea, okay,

(13:07):
Because one of the things we reallyare trying to communicate strongly through this
whole project is this is, asSophie said before, this is our vision
for realmedy the collective, not ourvision beaten Sophie. So it was really
important that those ideas were expressed,whether we agree with them or not.

(13:28):
But in terms of the look andthe feel and how it was structured.
We did that really collaboratively with her, which was really useful because the actual
words are great. I mean,you've got visuals which are fantastic. Yeah,
the words also, you know,you can't, as you say,
you can't argue with it, andit's throwing up stuff that we goes around

(13:48):
in our heads. But it's writtendown here, it's named, it's labeled,
it's marked up, and it wasall from the community, Like those
words are straight from the voices ofpeople in our community, and a wide
range of voices too, like we'vewe've so far engaged with the Youth Council,
with the Carpeti College Student Team,with the Domaty Beach Technology Center,

(14:09):
with yeah, a whole bunch ofdifferent groups, carpety Cycling Action, Chamber
of Commerce, Keyder and we've we'vejust kind of been hearing a whole bunch
of different things as well. Andin terms of the look and feel,
we did make it kind of quiteclear that obviously following Lisa's expertise, because
she is this is the work that'syeah, very much kind of in her

(14:33):
in her blood. I mean she'syeah, she's trained herself to get extremely
good at kind of live illustration anddrawing, so we we kind of worked
with her knowing that there was somethingshe was really good at. And now
it's awesome too because other communities startingto look at doing similar projects and she's
now been brought on board to supporttheir illustration and depiction of ideas from the

(14:56):
community. So it's becoming something that'sbeing picked up right across the district.
It's a really good communication tool.Yeah, and then you've got behind all
this, all this incredible idea andactivity that's really clearly represented jumps off the
page. You've got this color wave, you know, like and those are
sort of like you're offering us upcappity colors without sort of stage. It's

(15:20):
just sort of soft, but it'skind of yeah, it's a texture of
it, we know it, butsome putting it down as a graphic image.
It's sort of it's a sort ofgenerosity that we're sort of quite thankful
for. I think had this lovelycolors, you know, Yeah, we're
okay, we're cool. It's reallybeautiful, Yeah, really nice vibrant colors
that really kind of make you happyand want to help really people to engage
with the ideas and the image,yeah, because it's warm and inviting,

(15:43):
and they do they represent you know, the sand and the sea and these
things that we connect with in Carpety. Yeah, I mean the words and
the ideas and the sort of colorfuland people filled, but the blues and
the kind of golds and the greenthey grounded and kind of nature. Yeah.
So you know, urban design issuch a sort of physical, built,

(16:03):
infrastructural kind of thing, and alot of people just kind of glaze
over. But just having this sortof these natural colors behind, I'm sure
it sort of softens people's response.But you've got the reds which shows people
action doing stuff, big things happening, but the natural colors just kind of
back it all up. Yea,So people who are so you know,
the whole green approach which becomes greenwashedtypically and you know everyone's green everything,

(16:29):
but this doesn't sort of say itas much. It's just a visual kind
of well and again that was somethingthat really came through, particularly with survey
was in Carpety. I feel likewe often think ourselves as being a coast
community, but actually we're sort ofhill people as well. You know,
we have these great, big hillsand mountains right behind us. And what

(16:49):
came really clear through the survey aspeople really see themselves connected to them though
those hills areas really are a keypart of who we are as carpety people,
and so that needed to be depictedand so that green really kind of
brings that through without dominating. Yep. Absolutely, And I think most people
you know really say, you know, the hills to the sea kind of

(17:12):
experienced and so it's sort of nicethat you've actually managed to grasp it in
one whole kind of presentation. Soit says a lot. And as you
say, I think it helps peopleto get activated because they feel have a
sense of owns upon it. Yeah, definitely. And we've found too,
like the way it's been visually depictedas meant that kind of as you to
see, people have just got lostin the image and no matter their age

(17:36):
to like you'll have you know,a young person who'll look at it and
go, oh my gosh, wellthere are so many things if I zoom
in that I keep on noticing thatare new or that yeah, that I
really like, and it's it's anidea that's then activated me thinking about something
else, or you know, youstart to you start to kind of unlock
all these different different thoughts and differentvisualizations of how it omoty could be.

(17:56):
I'm thinking about the possibilities instead ofjust the constraints all the time. Yeah,
absolutely, absolutely. It frees uppeople's sense that you know, this
can happen. Yeah, and that'sthat's sort of like the absolute basis of
urban design public participation practice. Andwe talk a lot about it, and
we want to have it, andit's nice to know that it's actually a

(18:18):
kind of sort of it's humming alongin this way can be done. So
you've got you've got on your websitewhere too. Now obviously the why and
some beautiful words there which really reallyalso capture the idea but enable ownership,

(18:40):
enable an ongoing and open ended approachthat some words are really important so that
you actually and then we can readsome of those through. And we're too,
building on expanding and refining the vision, continuing work alongside Council to keep
Ramatty front of mind and ensure weare unlocking funding for the village and it's

(19:03):
being spent with your ideas and thoughtsand mind connect up with movers and shakers,
those keen to be involved more closelyin this process begin bringing elements of
the vision to life in partnership.So I guess it's still just letting these
images filter through to the community atthis stage or kind of, but some
of the images or some of theideas on the image already coming to life.

(19:29):
For example, Beat and I justmet with council staff down in the
village last week and talked about,you know, bike stands, and we're
now going to get i think roughlyeight bike stands in the village center because
projects like this have have begun toput pressure on staff but also to to

(19:49):
really give a mandate for some ofthese projects. I think too. That
was another thing that we've we've realizedthrough developing this vision is that, yeah,
the power of being able to demonstratecommunity support for something that does that
with a myriad of different projects andthe same vision is crucial because we can

(20:10):
say we've had so many members ofour community feed into this and you know
they've all expressed support for you know, safer cycling in our community. So
that makes a really obvious case formore bike stands. It's an easy win.
It's a low hanging fruit. Thingslike that are really are really important
and exciting. Another thing that wasreally prevalent in the survey responses was that
I musty pool building and activating thatdoing something with it. And not long

(20:36):
after we kind of started started kindof populating this vision across the community and
showing people what it was we weredoing, we started having an immense amount
of interest from other elected members councilstaff to say, Cole, we'll definitely
come on board with this, youknow, meet you on site, have
conversations about how we can activate thebuilding asap. And so that's also been

(21:00):
this is old swimming pool bid yeahyeah yeah, which the in the in
the sort of restaurant has been recentlytaken over by another ten yeah, and
they're currently doing a big refurbishment onthe restaurant bar, which is great for
the area, but that that poolbuilding itself has been dead. So you're
working with the Guardian Maritime Guardians guys, we know them. They had the

(21:21):
idea a few years back for themarine Discovery center in there, and that's
certainly one of the ideas that we'vehighlighted through our Facebook page. Still a
lot of support for that. Whatwe want to do, though, is
highlight the different ideas that people haverealistic ideas, yes, and just create
that interest and drive and see what, you know, what ideas could realistically

(21:44):
come to life out of it.And there's some good ideas on that Facebook
page. But what we have beenable to do is first of all,
get counsels involved and interested in doingsomething with the building. Second of all,
have actually taken the step of starto do all the building assessment work
that needs to be done. So'sthey're starting on that. They're almost finished,

(22:06):
so earthquake and with tightness and structuraland all of HVAC and everything.
So hopefully by the end of Julywe will have a full building assessment report
and so we'll know what is itsearthquake rating that's already underway, and then
that'll give us an idea of whatwe may and may not be able to
do with the building, what itmight cost to get it up to a

(22:29):
workable standard, and then we canstart having the conversations about long term what
might go in there, because thoseare really good questions. I mean,
it's actually what you can do withit with an existing vacant building, which
is so powerful, but in today'sidea of use of buildings in terms of
serving community, generating an existing builtspace for adaptive reuse, and how it

(22:57):
can really be a hub. Yeah, it's here, we might as well
use it, use it. Yeah, and it's on a location that really
just next to the magical location nextto the sea, but beside the park.
Yeah. So I mean all ofthese, these these these little maps,
visual maps, they obviously indicate linkagesbecause I start thinking about linkage.

(23:18):
I mean, you and everybody haddone at Ramadi has already done some amazing
work over the years with the Rameddyshops. Yeah, the work that was
done to develop them for the firstfirst place, and then the retail that
came in after that, you andyour wife Trina and all the others.
So there's already been hands on localmake Ramatty retail a destination. Okay,

(23:42):
that that sort of can phase off, you know, it can get tired
or new things have to happen.But when through this mechanism that you've got
here, this medium is cut thismap making medium, it's actually looking at
what you've got. You've got thepool, you've got, the restaurant,
you've got, the part, you'vegot the retail. What is that makes
round Mattie are really full complete,but also ongoing to the futures of the

(24:07):
place. You've got the pub whichprobably is almost pasted, its used by
date, You've got you know,various things. You've got the school,
You've got several schools, You've gotthe holes behind, like you're saying,
you've got the sea and the connections. So I guess, apart from like
the obvious low hanging fruit of thebike wrecks, it's actually also trying to
sort of suggest to people that youcan strengthen the linkages to all these key

(24:29):
spaces, the retail and the coastalbuildings of the pool and the pub which
people love. And it's strengthening thoselinkages and then the individual people who perhaps
own those buildings or tenant them thenget stronger kind of support to really revitalize
them even further. Yeah, Iguess a couple of big things that are

(24:52):
in my head as you're speaking thereis I guess what we're One of the
big sort of conceptual things that reallywe're aiming for as out of this whole
process is the question of who arewe as Roalmeddy, what kind of place
are we and what kind of placedo we want to be? Because you
know, we can look at thispicture and go, it's got this and
it's got that, and they're allexciting ideas, but what do those ideas

(25:14):
tell us about who we are andwhat kind of place we see ourselves as
that's really the drive to create thatsense of identity as Realmeddy as a place,
a collective identity, not just usdeciding this is who we are,
but what is it that the peopleare telling us about themselves when they share
these ideas with us. So that'sreally a kind of a big thing.
But also in terms of connection,I think you bang on well, one

(25:37):
of the things that comes through reallyclearly through this whole thing is the need
for connection. And I think beinga retailer in Romeddy Village through the COVID
time being locked down, what wereally saw coming out of that lockdown period
was this huge sense of relief aspeople were able to come back to open
shops again, not so that theycould spend money so much as that since

(26:00):
that, yeah, we can connectsas a community as people again. And
so it really showed me how aspeople really crave that connection, we really
need it, And I think thisproject really starts to show the broader community
how we might be able to connecttogether different parts of the community. Some
parts of it some people won't connectwith and let's fine. Other people will

(26:23):
and that's great. But just creatingthat space where everyone can connect in some
way to the area. Yeah.Absolutely. And we had iris and from
Isthmus a couple of months ago andshe was saying she was in London at
the time and she said, throughCOVID and lockdown, what became absolutely premium
for people was open public space toget outside into the street. The street.

(26:47):
It wasn't so much the real estatevalue of their homes that was the
street was what they realized what valuethat has. And this project that you've
got going coming in a couple ofyears after that expect variance is kind of
pivotal, I think to indicate topeople that, as you said, pause
for the moment and see what we'vegot now and who we are and the

(27:11):
opportunities we've got to really move forwardin the most effective and sort of impactful
way. And I think the councilis a pivotal moment as well. And
so I think that all the sortof potential is there. And by what
you're describing so beautifully about your approachto connection and people owning what is Ramatti.

(27:33):
That's a kind of template, asort of approach. If you can
get it with Ramatti, then wecan see the diverse. You know,
there's different parts of Capty of youknow, and if others can, other
districts can then nail and really kindof focus on who they are and the
revitalization of that. I mean,it's been people talk about this for decades

(27:56):
and decades, but it's actually justthe sort of the mechanism how you do
it. Yeah, yeah, Ithink so if you mentioned before that council
when they saw this, they've they'vereally picked it up and got excited about
it. So what they've now doneis they're starting to work with other community
boards around the district and getting themto start doing the same thing in their
communities, with a view that wecan ultimately create a sort of a Carpety

(28:19):
over rutching Carpety vision Capty sort ofpatchwork, a sort of woven texture of
diversity. Yeah, because we dolace and landscape, as you well know,
you know, each place in Carpetyis different. Realmedi is different to
Otaki and Wake and I and evenpart up a beach um. But what
are the similarities as well? Whatare the things that draw us together as

(28:40):
well as define us as different.Those sorts of things are really interesting what
they are to me? They areyeah, they absolutely yeah. And also
by having Ramah or TAKEI for instances, Maori Land and all of the things
are happening or they're doing their things, and Parker Beach does us. I
mean, the fact that we canmove from township township and experience a different

(29:00):
experience and different sense of the cityspace or a town space is really sort
of heightens the quality of living here. It does, and we really value
that ability to freely move between townshipshere too, right, that's really important
to people. Yeah. Yeah,And you know, you can go visiting,
and I remember we went. Iwent to something at the tennis Court

(29:22):
Hall whatever it's called down there,and then there was a halftime, so
I wandered off down the street andthere are little lanes and behind there that
I'd never even been to before.I thought, gosh, this is round
Mattie. I just thought round Mattiewith shops and the beach and this and
that and I discovered these little kindof residential corners and each and then you
realize, actually, you're I lovewhere I live, but hey, i'd

(29:45):
love to live down here as well. That's a sort of competitiveness which is
also quite a neat tension a littlebit. I got that, oh but
covetous, which is kind of yourprize that you've got to offer. We
get very protective of our own littleareas. Don't you go up the road.
Look got something going on, whichis great, and it's great to
have that sense of sort of stronglove for our local areas, but also

(30:08):
their ability and willingness to connect withthe other areas as well. This is
kind of really good and healthy.It is healthy, and I think this
is very sort of contemporary and itsapproach. I mean, I still think
that Capity has just really relied onits land. I mean, the councils
have never really had to really stretchthemselves. They've got Holida land. There's

(30:32):
just more development. There's just moredevelopers can do their thing. They've really
expert at it. They know howto do this thing, they know how
to maximize yield on a particular pieceof land. And so there's not been
any Really there's been a lot ofthese sorts of engagement things happening over the
years, but there's never been anyreally kind of follow through, really focused

(30:53):
kind of local, identifiable response.And and so I think capit could be
classed as and not a very leadershiporiented suburban precinct. But why can't it
Why can't it be like the thoughtleadership kind of provincial town regional town in

(31:15):
New Zealand. I mean, allthe elements are there, but we really
do have to step art because wehave this resource of land and sea and
view and waterways and incredibly important resources, and we've kind of and it's our
responsibility to really really sort of maximizeour use of them. Yeah, I

(31:41):
think I probably I agree with youthat Carpety has for a long time lacked
as general sort of overarching vision,something to kind of really for people to
get behind and kind of draw peopletogether, which is why I was keen
to see vision become something that Councilparticularly, we're willing to take notice of.

(32:01):
Great. I think for Counsel it'sbeen you know, our long term
plans as far forward as we tendto think, you know, and that
gets sort of a ten year planwith three yearly revisions, whereas now we're
suddenly looking at was it twenty sixtyas the sort of the vision period,
And I think that really changes thegame in terms of how we're doing things,

(32:23):
how we're looking at things, howdo we see ourselves. How does
it change the game You've got thislong term plan, does sort of like
overwhelm like the rate payer, ordoes it overwhelm the counselors or does it
enable these little microcosm kind of activitiesto flourish. Yeah, So I think
the beautiful thing about starting from visionand starting from strategy is that then the

(32:47):
investment decisions around what's prioritized flows outof that. So we're, as you're
kind of talking about, we're beingled by We're being led by proper leadership,
really encourage as to how we wantour commune it is to look,
we're developing buy and buy in forthat for that vision, and then working
with our community to figure out howthe creation of that or the actualization of

(33:09):
the vision is staged and how it'sfunded. So in the past we've kind
of entered a long term plan processand gone okay, out of these projects,
you know, what's most important whatdo you think about the parka kai
or what do you think about council'srole in the airport, what do you
think about you know, housing andhow counsel can play a greater role in

(33:29):
that space. But we haven't talkedabout the why. We haven't talked about
the overarching kind of what we're tryingto create and how the community can can
kind of be involved and as you'reas you're talking about really kind of foster
that different way of thinking and alsodifferent way of leading and way of leading

(33:49):
more strongly, because I do agreewith you that, Yeah, the more
we are courageous and our decision makingnow, the more fruit our next generation
will have to eat and enjoy.And that is our responsibility as being alive
right now to do that and tocreate a more beautiful community for them.
And so I think if we're ledby the why, if we're led by

(34:10):
community voice, if we're led byManfa voice as well as being a crucial
aspect of our community that's pioneered longterm thinking, then in terms of the
way we plan, in respects ofour long term planning, we're going to
have a way more connected up andkind of synergized. Yeah, plan,

(34:34):
outcome process. Yeah. Yeah,So instead of jumping straight to the what
do we think about all of thesethings, we're going who do we want
to be? Why do we wantto be? Like that? What's the
what's the underlying kind of goal oraspiration or outcome we're trying to achieve?
And then how do we do that? Not focusing straight away on the how.
And when you said you know,we want leading, suddenly I start

(34:57):
to feel my heart and my stomachstarts to feel enthoosed even just saying leading
like lead, like leading. Idon't think we've had that. We've had
a lot of people working hard withtheir particular set of skills and qualifications,
getting their head down, beavering awayand feeling a bit hurt if someone doesn't
respond positively to all the hard workthey've done. So this is constant kind

(35:17):
of conflict situation. But there's noleadership. And I think Capity is a
bit scared of leadership because because theydon't feel that they have the right or
whatever. You know, we're justCapity, But no, we're not.
We're a place with an extraordinary physicalgeographical presence, and we're a place which
serves people who live here and leadership. When you start describing moders leadership,

(35:39):
then I start to get a bitinterested. And I think also what we
found through this project is it's meantthat kind of people have come out of
the woodworks and said, yeah,actually we want to be a part of
shaping what our matically looks like becausewe are actually really proud of this place.
We're proud of what it can become. We're proud of the people that
make it what it is. Andyeah, developing that kind of sense of

(36:00):
pride, not being like, oh, I'm from Carpety Arts. It's a
retirement Mecca Arts. It's that it'slike, I'm from carpet and we can
all, you know, shape whatit becomes in the future because we're all
here right now. So sure we'vegot a history, but you know,
history is only built by the actionsthat are taken now. So if we

(36:21):
take actions which, yeah, whichcreate the kind of future we want to
live in or we want the nextgeneration to inherit, then we I think
that's leadership. But I think sooften we've looked at the past and we've
just repeated it because we think thatit's our only option. But it's not.
It's not it's really not really notleadership. And the ability to respect

(36:42):
leadership is almost ability to respect otherpeople's expertise and allow that to flourish.
And let's hope that counsel is it. I say this this kind of pivotal
point. We've got so many skills, but also it's a time there's lots
of pressures in the world and thatactually often throws up real solutions thinking,
yeah, collaboration and I think it'sit's all happening at the same time.

(37:05):
Yeah, And I just comment onsomething Sophie just brought up there in terms
of you asked earlier about the negatives, and one of the negatives that comes
up occasionally as oh why fix what'snot broken, But what Sophie was just
talking about there was that sense ofpride and what do you love about the
place? And that to us whenwe look at that picture, that's just
as much what we are wanting toget from people as you know, not

(37:28):
just what do you want the placeto look like in terms of what difference
is, but what do we loveabout the place that we want to keep.
If we've got developers come in thatare going to do intensified dwellings,
and all the sort of stuff.What do we want to be able to
say to them, to say,actually, no, don't do that,
because this is who we are andthis is how we like things. That's
really important to communicate. But wedon't know those things if we haven't had

(37:50):
the conversations with the community. Exactlyis that conversation with the community and generating
that pride and generating that Yes,I like that too? Do you like
that? That's what I see allthe time. You see that, let's
presh, let's let's let's some reallyenhanced there as a sort of concept.
And then you know, it's adifference from like having this I think we
get well. Council gets kind ofenamored by the master plan idea, which

(38:15):
is usually fed to them by paidconsultants from AFAR. But you're by this
little beautiful kind of dialogue tool here. It's looking at it's really sort of
looking first of all at what we'vegot and what is wrong with this thing
and what is right with this thing? And let's tease out what's here and
as through linkages and through sort ofidentifying, you know, strengthening certain little

(38:39):
corners and pockets. You're talking aboutthe big thing of the pool. But
there's also a little just corners,little kind of little little kind of little
triangles of public space at the councilloans here and there, and if we
can sort of like just put upa little temporary kind of pop up architecture
pavilion and people say, oh,I want to hang around there, and
suddenly a tiny little space becomes reallygo to space, and then that colors

(39:05):
and that characterizes a community in anincremental way. So when the developers,
bless their souls, who can whothey can do guys come in. They
tend to follow what people want.That's where their Britin Boter is. So
if they see that people are doingthis, then they can then you know,
pull their heads in and do whatis required of the community, what

(39:25):
the community wants them in an idealworld. Yeah, and I think the
master plan is what council relies onbecause it sounds all big and good,
but then in the end nothing muchhappens, and if something does happen,
it's a very very very very dilutedversion of some idea way back which is
implemented by some tended landscape architect companysomewhere, and we get what we've got

(39:52):
with the state Highway redo out here, why can I in the State Highway
redo down at the railway station hub. I'm going on, but now just
triggers them thought here that you've gotthis little, really viable, actual working,
open ended kind of project happening,and counselors buying into it because you're

(40:15):
giving them the information, You're givingthem the tools which they can really become
and apply their skills too. ButI think what I would like to see
before we talk about long term plansas I think counselors should have a responsibility,
and I think the sort of intuitiveand quite intelligent group we've got at
the moment should be saying, well, just steps back and think what we

(40:37):
did wrong. I mean, youspent We were told through numerous numerous consultant
engagements which I attended religiously, ofwhat was going to happen between the railway
station and all through coastlines, andwe gave our time. And what we've
got is a nonentity and a veryvery expensive, slow moving piece of it
might look okay in the end,who knows, But at the moment,

(40:59):
the pros this is not good,and we're the ones who are experiencing that,
and I think counsel should just sortof tick off. Okay, we're
going into the future with these lovelyideas, but you know, just let's
see, you don't want to gointo the past, but you want to
look at what have we done wrongin the past and what have we really
made a mess of? And Ithink then you get some sort of accountability

(41:20):
to residents. And it's nice tothink that that when development does happen,
that it's not just focused on what'sexpedient and efficient and economic, but in
terms of what's beautiful, what reflectsthe community needs and desires, you know,
what functions well for the people thatare going to use it in that
kind of thing, right, Imean a lot of money has been spent
at cohostance down the link Way towardsCapiti Lights. How many people use that?

(41:45):
I mean they look good, theylook good on paper in terms of
master plan, but how many people? So anyway, I'm going off on
a tangent here. It's all right, but Sophie is about to depart.
She's a very busy counselor and we'rereally happy to have you here and thank
you so regarding council and you guysthat you're at the community level and at

(42:05):
the council level, you're having asensible early days yet, but you're having
a sense that that plans are beingput in place or can be put in
place apart from the bike racks andso forth. But or are we going
to have these wonderful ideas and thenwe get State Highway one, railway station
hub kind of money throwing into pitsand absolutely ending up nowhere. We're not

(42:30):
going to because I believe in thisprocess here, but I also think this
time around we can really look atthe small scale here, and then you
guys are starting to bounce it andsaying, well, you know, it
can happen at a bigger scale,and the bigger scale is when it's great,
but it has to be like approachedand small, you know, at
the sort of ground level. Ithink to avoid the wasteful spending and the

(42:54):
waste of resources we're seeing in frontof us at the moment. Yeah,
nobody likes to see wasted resources,that's for sure, and including often the
people who have wasted them. They'reoften just as unhappy that resources have been
wasted. But I'd like to thinkthat you counsel when they see good outcomes
happen that you encourages them to keepfollowing that that way of doing things.

(43:19):
Yeah, this kind of thing reallyrequires not just us to sort of formulate
a vision, but to advocate forthat vision and to advocate for those ideas
ongoing. And that requires not justscreaming at counsel because they've done it wrong,
but engaging with them early in thingsto make sure that those ideas are
embedded into the thinking before plans formulated. If if we've already got look,

(43:45):
we've already talked to the community,we already know what they want from something,
then that's part of that job alreadydone. Yes, So it gives
you confidence that what they come backwith in terms of a plan will reflect
those values and those needs. Sothat's my hope for it. But as
I say, it does require ongoingadvocacy that that relationship to keep going.

(44:06):
So, I mean this is designedto outlive at the work that we're here
doing, So it won't always beus, Sophie and I that will be
running this vision and evicating for it. The idea is that other people will
be able to come in and dothat work, and they'll keep pushing,
they'll keep engaging with counsel, they'llkeep making sure that those ideas are embedded

(44:28):
into plans early on. And Ithink this is a step change. This
is a big step change away fromthe kind of master plan approach we've seen
in the past. This is,as you say, by the community for
the community, and it's how andI mean those words have been repeated over
time, but it's actually how you'reyou're so embedded in the concept that you're

(44:50):
actually committed to communicating in a waythat's really effective and has longed has ongoing
results. And I think this iswhat's happening hopefully. Yes, I mean
we're seeing we're seeing, like soif you pointed out some of those short
term things happen, we're seeing evidenceof some longer term things starting to happen.

(45:12):
So that gives me a lot ofhope that, yeah, this will
be fruitful and will lead to reallypositive outcomes for our community, because that's
what we're here for, us forour community. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely. And when I was mentioningthese little kind of pocket parky things,
you and Sophie kind of got quiteanimated at that point, Like around
round Maddie how does that. Imean, you've got you've got these ideas.

(45:35):
Are the places, physical places wherewe haven't looked at in the past
that could actually just suddenly occur aslittle community focus points. I'm going to
say yes, because we're working onsomething at the moment, but it's probably
not quite ready for public consumption justyet. But yes, specifically, we've
we've cited a location and round Mattiewhere we've we can see some really good

(45:58):
things happening. We've also seen wecurrently also we just decided we should do
a market just to sort of getsome community connection happening. So we've just
talked to Tirakua yesterday about doing afood truck evening in their car park school.

(46:19):
That's the Performing Arts Center. Sojust on Ramedy Road. I saw
that advertise. It looked really great, right and really great, and I
mean Sophie put the post up andit just went crazy. People were so
excited about the idea, you know, which is great. So all right,
this is something what there is somethingpeople have said that they want through
the vision. We've tested it onFacebook. Okay, people are really hungry
for it again, that sense ofconnection. So we've found a space that's

(46:44):
in remedy that we think we canuse that will be really good for that
kind of use. We've talked tothem and we've now set a date fifteenth
of September. We'll have sort ofa night market really, yeah, just
as a chance for people in remedyto connect. Yea and a bit of
fun, have a bit of fun. And when you start those that really
creates an economic kind of movement.I mean that collective community kind of approach

(47:09):
generates economic spinoff and that people startto feel those things they can do and
that they can actually continue on doingfrom situations like that hopefully. Yeah.
I mean you never know who youmeet at those things, and one business
person meets another, or somebody hasa market that connects with another market so
they start doing things together. It'ssort of a bit of a precursor for

(47:30):
end of November, the Ramedy VillageBusiness Association will be closing off Margaret Road
to do their street festival and sothat will kind of lead towards that as
well. So it just really generatingthose because there's a lack of fun sometimes,
isn't there some of our areas,Yes, you know, we need
to get back to that idea thatwe can get outside, we can connect
and we can have fun together asa community. And a night market's a

(47:52):
good idea because people are wondering whatthen, what they're going to be doing
tonight, and they can go downto the night market, come down,
grab some food from the food truck, hang about, maybe by something from
market, listened to a busker,and then off to do something else for
the rest of the night. Yeahyeah, you know, yeah yeah,
um. And out of that,as you say, innovative ideas can can
spring from and somebody suddenly is nowfinding that they've got a business that it's

(48:15):
got ongoing potential, right because they'remaking connections that they can see that what
they're doing is connecting with it withan audience. Yeah yeah, So little
things like that we're sort of lookingout for and people are communicating some to
us and sort it's been it's amazingwhat's popped out from this vision once we
started reeling it out to so stuffis popping up all the all the time.

(48:36):
I mean, we only started thisweek. We went public with this
end of January, and within threemonths we sat down and wrote a list
of the stuff that had happened sinceand it was just we couldn't believe it.
Really. We've also been invited toUmhota. We went over there about
six weeks ago, so they sawwhat we were doing and they came to

(49:00):
us and said, we did somethingsimilar teen years ago. Come and see
what we've done. And so wewent over there and saw what they had
done ten years ago and what it'sled to. They've just completed a complete
town upgrade over there, which andthey've done a really nice job. Lots
of community buy and again they've gonethrough that process of finding out how people

(49:21):
want to use the space and whathave you. They've set up vehicle to
keep that idea going and now they'relooking beyond just the town center and looking
what else they can do. Lotsof little things have sprung up over the
years. Really, I haven't seenmine over it in ten years, and
it was really sad. I hadn'tbeen there since I was a teenager,
and it's over the hell and wego down into that valley and they've actually

(49:44):
made it. They've upgraded it reallyeffectively, have they They have, And
it's worth taking a look to seehow a modern town center can start to
come to life a little bit again, and the fact that they're communicating with
you. That's that's another linkage,isn't it. They contributing more energy into
your project across the region, andit kind of gives you the affirmation that
what we're doing has some value andhas some reasonance. Yes, not just

(50:05):
locally but outside as well. Otherpeople are looking at this and saying,
wow, this is great. Yeah. Yeah. Sophie was approached by Local
Government New Zealand about speaking to theLocal Government conference about what we're doing as
an example of a community process.It didn't quite fit the schedule at the
end, but they were still itgot their interest. So it really is
getting a lot of interest. Peopleare noticing it. We didn't far more

(50:30):
than we expect. So really it'sjust the right time for this sort of
thing that you've managed to be theconduit for it must be Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I think I might justrepeat here some of your introductory wording
is that, Okay, sure you'vegot here. The purpose of the Mattie,
the why we all love Ray Matty. Change is happening, and if
we're not careful, we could losewhat we love about the place or miss

(50:52):
out on opportunities to make it evenbetter. It's a matter of finding the
balance between keeping what we love andallowing new things to emerge. So we're
building a collective, community driven visionfor the future of Ramady, by the
people, for the people, andwe're starting with Ramedi Beach. I mean,
it's it's that sense of allowing peoplenot to have that sort of ongoing

(51:13):
kind of anxiety that they're going tolose what they love. You know,
you need these moderating moments where youknow, you find out that everybody actually
really gets a buzz out of thatparticular corner of retail and and so that's
working. Let's really enhance that.So then you're building on people's confidence about
the place where they live. Andthat's got to be good for the economy,

(51:34):
because well being and community connection isgood for the economy. Well,
you hope, so definitely, Andit's not just about economics, obviously,
it's not for me that what's reallyat the core of it is that sense
of community connection, community building.Yeah, the the economic spaces will do
out of that if the community isstrong, Yeah, but that's sort of
a side effect. But yeah,definitely, that sense that there's stuff here

(51:59):
we want to keep we treasure it. We're not just coming here to try
and change everything. We've got tokeep the things we love, and we've
got to also be able to donew things things because people love. For
example, people love the buildings inRemedy Village with their sea declaring they didn't
always exist. They weren't always there. At some point somebody had the idea

(52:20):
to do something new. So there'snew ideas that people will come up with.
It will be great for our community. What are they Let's look at
them, but let's not lose whowe are in the process. I mean,
people say, oh, it's notbright, Why I fix it?
You know, if you just staywith what you've got, there are so
many new things out there in termsof enhancing community well being, in terms
of the belt space, and ifyou've set up a program like this,

(52:44):
then you're able to sort of harvestthose things. And I think if you
think of if you're a gardener andyou've got the most beautiful garden in the
world, if you want it tostay exactly the same, you have to
work awfully hard to keep it thesame. It can do nothing. And
it's the same with it with acommunity. You know, even if you
love what we've got. We've gotto keep working to keep it that way.
We don't just sit back and donothing. Yeah, I mean,

(53:05):
I think there are also buildings thatare sort of so ordinary every day people
sort of don't tend to notice them, of the value of them. But
if you sort of like mark outthe important, like the Unitarian Church,
is that what it's called. Yeah, I mean, that's a really neat
building sitting on its hell there.I mean that serves as a sort of
community as a collective place, butit also acts as a kind of neat

(53:30):
architectural marker on its hell and itresponds across to the school, and it's
in that wicker road kind of complex. I mean, by doing this kind
of mapmaking, you can get peopleto say, Okay, we think that
we're all kind of it's all toomuch for us. We're just busy running
our business or taking the kids toschool. But if you get a bigger
picture group such as you and Sophieand others, you start to say,

(53:52):
hey, look, you know,we've got this church where he just thinks
for building, but actually it's quitea neat building and it's right side that
watch was once that little kind ofworkshop, sheltered workshop place which was for
people's well being the article away,yeah, which is still still they're working.
I mean that's really neat hugs intothe hillside there, you know.

(54:12):
And for me as an urban designer, it's actually I think people are so
busy with their particular areas of whattheir job is. But for me as
an urban designer, it's the waythe streets offer up abilities for buildings to
link together, to give people asense of community. And if you can
sort of strengthen people's awareness of buildingsuch that, you know, most people

(54:34):
say, oh, we've got theschool, will do everything at the school,
and the school takes quite a lota low, which is great.
Or we've got the shops. I'mjust going to go window shopping because that's
my recreation. But I can't spendmoney because I haven't got much. But
if people can say I can justwalk around the streets and get a bit
of a high because I belong tothis thing and the streets themselves are colorful
and I might meet other people,you know, then it becomes more less

(54:58):
about bricks and mortar, and well, it's about bricks and mortar, but
it's how the bricks and mortar relatetogether and rather than building something completely new,
looking at the structure that we've alreadygot and it becomes about the connection,
the connection to the place, theconnection to the people. Yeah,
end nature. We've got Funnymoku streamand various things in Ramadi that people are

(55:20):
very interested in talking about, arethey or absolutely because far Amoku Stream,
there's people talking about it up atthe coastland's end, there's people talking about
down at the Kiwi Road end.And those guys are meeting kind of from
both ends, you know, withall their different priorities, and what an
amazing linkage it is. Absolutely,it's kind of a real treasure for us.
And when you think that you're talkingabout people love the hills, well,

(55:43):
that stream comes out of from thehills to the Katawa. It actually
goes glow wooms and the caves overin the Katawa end. Yeah, and
it's quite lovely up there, andthen it gets kind of muted as it
goes through coastlands. Needs a littlebit of love, that's for sure.
Yeah. And that does link youRamatty too and the hills yea and the

(56:04):
hills. Yeah, So how dowe continue to celebrate this. I mean,
you guys are doing it anyway.Yeah. Look, we're going to
be carrying on our work probably youknow, across the rest of the year
at least. And if people areinterested, happy to engage, you know,
if people have got groups, we'rehappy to meet them. If people

(56:25):
have concerns, we're happy to sitdown and talk through, you know,
any concerns. And we've done thatwith some people. So how did the
Worker Road meeting go? Was thatwell populated? It was good. There
was a particular issue that sort ofdominated a little bit, but hopefully we're
sort of working through that. Um. But but it was good. It
was a good opportunity just to againyou know, get the public, the

(56:49):
local public together to talk about andthat worked reasonably well. Yeah, we've
done two now, we've done oneand the bowling club in Roumeddy Beach.
We had an advocate from a whocan illtate these things. We've got somebody
from the community to put their handup who's done a little bit of that
sort of urban planning before. Yes, so yeah, she's keen to get

(57:09):
you can lead some of these tops, some of those conversations, which is
really great to have those sorts ofpeople already in the community happy to help
out. Okay, okay, soshe was happy as a volunteer to do
are you no one's getting paid.Yeah, and you see in the editor,
oh, you know, the ratesor something. But I mean there's
not too much of that. You'reyou're managing to step beyond some of that

(57:31):
resistance well, or managing that resistanceor depends. Big projects like say the
pool building for example, that'll haveto go into the long term plan and
be budgeted within the existing council budget. Other little things like bike stands for
example, we've managed to get somewithout council having to stretch any budget.
So you know, you've got toabsolutely watch those rates pressures totally. But

(57:54):
I mean in terms of like thatthe naysayers and the ground oh you get
a little bit, but you knowthat's part of the polaris. Urban designs
a political animal and it's a realaction for people, and we need to
listen. But you know, weneed to just balance there. But as
responsible people who you've got to offerpeople a lifestyle for the rates that they're
paying, I think we're going tohave to round up. But so how

(58:15):
would you like to sort of roundthe soft Oh, just to say thanks
to the community for all the supportand feedback and engagement that we've had so
far. Keen to have more andif people out there are keen to engage
more with us or with the project, just feel free to yell out.
Yeah right, And like I say, I mean, you're only elected into

(58:36):
the community board last October twenty twentytwo, and this thing is we're not
even a year into it and thisis just the right time. Yeah,
with the right amount of we're rightapproach, the leadership is there, right
and that makes me feel quite happy. Yeah, So thanks very much,
Bed and problem, thank you.Thank you to Sophia the empty chair there.
This is ROSSLANDAVI here Local Architecture.Now we're talking with Bead and Sophie

(59:00):
Hanford bad Larisi who have been theco founders of our vision for Romedi.
Check it out. It's a beautifulthing. Thank you. This program was
made with assistance from New Zealand onAir for radio broadcast and through the Accessmedia

(59:22):
dot org dot MZ website. Thankyou New Zealand on Air.