September 6, 2023 • 37 mins
Michael Lehrer one of Los Angeles’ celebrated, modernist architects With many decades of practice based in Silverlake Hollywood, he gives a vital and clear description of practicing architecture as it happens day to day.
His commitment to the craft and the creative process for the well-being of the individual and community clients is enlightening and encourages all in the collaborative act of architecture.
Michael is the recipient of many awards including the 2020 AIA LA Gold Medal.
Michael has been past president of AIA LA and is active on the Board of local housing agencies for the homeless.
https://www.lehrerarchitects.com/project/chandler-tiny-home/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JieScoc1vshttps://globaldesignnews.com/michael-b-lehrer-constructs-the-7-3m-tiny-home-village-on-leftover-plots-in-los-angeles-as-an-urban-micro-homes-development-to-house-200-homeless-residents-in-the-most-colorful-environment/https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/michael-lehrer-los-angeles-house-article
His commitment to the craft and the creative process for the well-being of the individual and community clients is enlightening and encourages all in the collaborative act of architecture.
Michael is the recipient of many awards including the 2020 AIA LA Gold Medal.
Michael has been past president of AIA LA and is active on the Board of local housing agencies for the homeless.
https://www.lehrerarchitects.com/project/chandler-tiny-home/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JieScoc1vshttps://globaldesignnews.com/michael-b-lehrer-constructs-the-7-3m-tiny-home-village-on-leftover-plots-in-los-angeles-as-an-urban-micro-homes-development-to-house-200-homeless-residents-in-the-most-colorful-environment/https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/michael-lehrer-los-angeles-house-article
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:13):
Hello, Michael. Good to seeyou, Michael, and thank you so
much for coming on to Local ArchitectureNow for August twenty twenty three. Michael
Leira Michael Leira Architects all the wayfrom from Actually, I guess we've got
my district from Hollywood, California.Hollywood, California, and that's pretty amazing.
(00:36):
I mean, we're so privileged tohave you on the show. Here
we are in Why Can I Coupity? In New Zealand Air tier Row and
Michael from from Hollywood. But we'respeaking with Michael for very many reasons,
but partly because of your very identifiabletiny home development schemes for the homeless,
(00:56):
which stand out remarkably. You've gota great history of this and of course,
currently just all in the news herein New Zealand, we're looking at
our issues with potential relocation of indigenousMarai because of flooding up an out east
coast area and the regions there,and that that brings it across to the
local But anyway, Michael, you'vebeen practicing for a long time and your
(01:22):
passion and architectures renowned. Yeah,I have been practicing for a long time.
Well, you know, architecture.It takes a long time to build
something, and even longer to buildsomething that's darned nice, and then to
learn the lessons and go through severaliterations and rounds of growth. Architectures,
(01:48):
you know, a complex, it'sa complex human enterprise. And you know,
not for the not for the wearyat heart. I mean, uh,
you know, I was I believeI was born to be an architect.
So whatever challenges and discouragements there were, and there were many, as
(02:14):
there are for everybody, but certainlyfor in architecture, you know, you
just hang in there, and youknow, if you don't pay attention for
a little while, I said,oh my goodness, I've built a few
things here, and I've learned somelessons and and a nice variety of of
of projects. I mean really frompeople at the very bottom of the social
(02:35):
ladder too, I guess people youknow, way high way high up to
social adders. So the full rangeof humanity is which is that's a good
thing. That's a good thing.I mean the fact that you name being
humanity as in the conversation around architecture, which is is wonderful because a lot
(02:58):
of times that is not the wordthat people use a lot in the industry,
I mean, which is what itreally is about. And and also
that lovely since that you say it'sit's architecture is goes through so many lifetimes
and it's sort of like certain age, you know, it's it's a lifetime,
and it's also often the older person'scareer because it takes that long to
(03:22):
really Yeah, I think it isan old person. I mean, it
is an old person's discipline. AndI think when other people in other disciplines
are thinking of winding down, Imean every human being can you know,
can wind down when they when theyneed to. But in architecture, you
know, you're you're just you know, you're developing a modicum of mastery over
(03:46):
a long period of time, andand you know the fix is actually you
know, bringing places into the world. And I would re emphasize, I
mean you're making this for human beingand it I think it ends up being
a not in every way, butin many ways a secondary or tertiary,
(04:09):
if not lower qualifier, whether somebodyis houseless or homed, or well to
do or not. I mean peopleare people, and people at every and
the full range of human experience andachievement or lack of achievement, whatever,
(04:30):
you know, have the same needs. Uh, you know, I mean
being a human being. I meanfrom the clear physical ones of shelter and
nourishments, you know, to adignity, to pride, even prestige.
I mean, you know, ifyou have nothing, Uh, maybe you
(04:51):
just have a pillow you've had fora few years that someone gave you or
whatever. And someone else may havea villa. But those are things that
as you know, the things youtreasure and the things you treasure and that
make you full the human And Ithink that's that's Uh. I think that's
it. I mean for us inour work, for me as a human
(05:13):
being. That's that's that's an importantunderstanding. And also the end of the
day, the rudiments of architecture arethe same. Uh. You know,
whether you're providing a uh you know, a tiny home or something next level
up from that, or a villa. You know, I mean light,
fresh air, the ability to feelsecure, uh, connection to the landscape,
(05:40):
uh, you know, degrees ofcommunity and privacy. All of those
things are you know, and andand the fancy projects, uh the I
shouldn't say fancy because all projects havethe possibility being fancy, but projects for
people of means informed projects for peopleof virtually no means, and vice versa.
(06:02):
So what you're talking about now atan older age, see it is
actually probably this is verbalizing exactly thesort of instincts that you had when you
first heard about architecture. But it'sgoes through the hot that is basically the
principles. I would imagine that attractspeople to architecture and for me included as
land and people. And then it'sstill a rich conversation, you know,
(06:25):
after decades and decades of practice,you know, for those basic sort of
things. Yeah, I think that'sa really that's a really loved I mean,
it's a came in, I meana lovely and an important observation.
I don't know if that's universally true. I mean I think along the way,
as with any discipline in pursuit,there are probably more good reasons to
(06:48):
stop doing it and try something else, right, I mean, every you
hit blocks in everything, thank youin life, and the thing that maybe
defines you or a defined or ofsome modicum of success is the fortitude,
the tenacity, the need you haveto break through those blots right, and
(07:08):
to hang in there through the pain, through the rejection, through the failure,
because this is what you gotta do. I mean, architecture is certainly
like that. I mean it's Iwould say, you know, having traumas
along the way or part of becomingan architect. I mean it's a you
know, buildings and things related tobuildings are are expensive, and you know
(07:30):
you you don't know, you don'tknow a lot more than you know.
I mean, by the time you'redone, you still don't know everything,
but you know, you again,you developed some some degree of mastery.
I mean, I decided to bean architect when I was a child,
and you know, I was eight, I think within a year or two,
(07:51):
I under I think I understood thatsimply that you know, it was
a way of solving you been problemsand needs in ways that you know,
might be nice, maybe beautiful.I don't know if I might have articulated
that, and that, you know, had some relationship to science and art.
(08:13):
And I'm not even sure that Iknew that much about what science was.
Then I knew a little more aboutso we had a grip on there
to day. I didn't come toit till I was like seventeen, well
I did. I mean, whathappened was in third grade and I lived
only twelve of my many years onthe planet have not been in this neighborhood
where I live. In practice,so my elementary school about a mile from
(08:37):
here. In third grade, agirl I had a crush on brought blueprints
which is what they used to becalled blue drawings with white lines on them
to school that of a high schoolher father designed. And I looked at
them and something resonated. I meanI said, or felt, this is
(09:00):
what I'm going to do. AndI never changed my mind. And the
the sensibility, the residence I foundwith some essence of me, you know,
was the beauty of the line work, the beauty of the printing,
the deliciousness of making a mark onpaper. And and by the way,
(09:24):
I mean, it's never changed forme. I take my my fancy fountain
pen, which I've had. It'sthe third one, but I've had the
same pen for over forty years.When I take my pen and put it
to paper doing anything, I'm happy. It's just like, Okay, life
is good. Yeah, what awonderful conversation. I mean, this is
(09:48):
wonderful, and I totally I meanthe moment in my day to day week
right now. You know, I'mright in the thick of and you and
and you know you have wonderful designtimes, but you also you've got to
deal is details and you've got tothink about the details and in the client
and the contract at this particular week. So I totally appreciate this conversation getting
out of the stepping out of thatand have you say, in a lifetime
(10:09):
of work, architecture is hard.You know, there are blocks, but
then that is also the wonderful tensionin the system. As soon as you're
in that tension and you're dealing withit and you're with it, and then
you get to a design outcome,that is also part of it, that
tension and that release, which wellit's not separable from it. I mean,
(10:31):
I think and I think it's life, and I think it's the creative
process. So the creative process isan intensified version of life, failure and
success, thriving, facing the abars, feeling good, feeling bad about yourself,
and the design process is just thaton steroids. I mean, in
fact, I think most of thetime as a designer, I'm not feeling
(10:54):
so good about myself. Yes,when a design doesn't work, you feel
like a failure, no matter howmany times you've done it, and that's
not a good feeling. You learnhow to cope with it and not hopefully
bring you down as much as youget older, and you put up with
it, but like, wow,this is really hard. I guess I'm
(11:16):
not as good as I thought Iwas. And then you solve it and
say, okay, wow, lifeis good, life is beautiful. Yeah,
and that's that's that's the cycle,and I think that is I think
that's the essence of the creative process. And my own little insight many years
ago was one of the most difficultthings that one of the reasons why most
(11:39):
people avoid the creative process from childhoodon, whether it's drawing or writing or
painting or who knows what anything isthat to make an ugly mark on a
piece of paper or anything is excruciatinghuman pain for every human being. And
(12:00):
you know, when you're five yearsold you draw with abandon and it's fine.
And by the time you're six,seven, eight years old, you
make a line as they were,that's ugly, and or someone makes us
says, well, that's not sogood. Whatever, the pain is so
great, and I feel the painis great. Nut because growing is unimportant,
but because it's too important, andso that. And if there's no
(12:24):
reason for you to continue, youknow, doing stuff to endure that pain,
you just you just stop. Sohow is a parent? How is
a teacher? How is as anadults in the ability to do a little
metacognition? How do you get yourselfthrough that pain? You know, like
an athlete works herself through, youknow, the pain to get to the
(12:46):
successful outcome when they're looking. Andthat's the same in the design and creative
process. You know, your abilityto get through that pain is an addition
to whatever special talent you may ormay not have. If you have that
tenacity, that has a lot ofvalue in the creative process and massive value
(13:07):
as an architect plus architecture. Justas architects, we live in a different
time zone normal human beings. Maybeyou can remember maybe two or three weeks
back, and maybe can anticipate twoor three weeks in the future. But
as an architect, when you starteda job and say, wow, I
can't believe it. This may bedone in two or three years. Yeah,
(13:30):
it may be longer, okay,And then you get excited by all
of these milestones and no one elsegets excited about it, but you expect
it over a long period of timeand you adjust your I mean, you
live that way because if you don'tmake that adjustment, you can't do work
like this. It just takes toolong. Yeah, And you adjust to
those those intense stresses and those areintense resolutions as a day to day thing,
(13:58):
and what an emotional role of roadcrist But also the constant communication,
I mean that is also part ofthe creativity. Is the creativity is actually
collaborating and communicating and knowing there's goingto be issues with your client's concerns and
then translating those to the contractor,but all the time knowing that you're mediating
(14:20):
a building through all of this.That is also part of the creativity,
is it? Oh, I thinkit's a creativity, and I think it's
it's among the the virtues of beingan architect or something like an architect that
has real value to society. Imean, I think, uh, one
(14:41):
of the current riffs in Los Angelesis talking about, you know, the
slowness of the bureaucracy, because allover the place, but certainly here and
the silos, each bureaucratic silo.Yes, And then you realize that as
architects are, maybe our most fundamentalskill is dealing with people in different silos
(15:03):
who may not have anything to dowith one another, and maybe different than
architecture per se. Whether it's youknow, the structural engineer or the civil
engineer, or the accoustician or theyou know, the landscape architect or you
know, they all have their ownspecialties, and our training is to know
enough about what they do to communicatewith them and hear them, and to
(15:28):
honor what they want to do.But also, you know, shape it
in a way that you know,this may not be the perfect piece of
structure, but it may be aperfect piece of architecture. You know,
how to compromise and synthesize all thosethings. That's a very special skill.
Again, that's something which is nota normal skill for normal people. And
(15:50):
I think what you've just been describingin the process of what architecture can offer
two systems like that, it's justI've just in the last couple of days
actually in this book care our latestour brands build which is our Building Research
Association, New Zealand. They've gotan exact article, the exact article on
exactly that about systems systems thinking andthat you know, we need to start
(16:12):
looking at the non silo and allof that. And I noticed that on
ARC daily exactly that just yesterday,a whole article on how we need to
start looking at systems thinking in theand how that can provide opportunities for resolving
so many What system I hear itis what system transformation means for the sector.
(16:37):
And they're having a whole sort ofacademic conversation about exactly the process that
you're describing now of what architects cando working at horizontally across siloed. The
other thing is when you're talking aboutmulti trans disciplinary engagement or silos and breaking
silos, it's easy to focus onthe breaking and the transdisciplinary, but it
(17:02):
can't be trans disciplinary without a discipline. You can't break a silo without honoring
the silo. I mean, thesilo exists for a reason. So you
know it's like, well, youjust you you just shouldn't stay in your
silo. You know, it's likeyou get together and and you know that's
how you make good things happen inthe world. I mean, that's bringing
together, honoring what, honoring whatanybody brings to the table, and opening
(17:27):
them up and being open to themu to you know, to get to
the moment the SA architecture synthesis.Yeah, the synthesis the solutions thinking,
not the problems thinking. Yeah.I think that conversation that what you're just
describing is is key to now andkey as a as an approach to so
(17:49):
many ways of looking at the currentcomplex problems we've got at the moment.
Sorry, it's why we adver knowwhy in our profession here, you know,
for decades we you know, oneof our positions is, you know,
include architects on various governmental or youknow, committees that may not be
(18:15):
explicitly about architecture, but that areabout you know, successful problem solving.
And because you know, the wayI describe architecture versus sort of maybe more
non architectural thinking is uh, youknow, for normal people when their tensions
and oppositions, you know, thethe normal response as well, somebody must
(18:38):
have screwed up, maybe there's somemalfeasans, maybe there is incompetence or whatever.
But when an architect sees oppositions andtensions you look at and say,
oh, we're alive. Yeah,tensions and oppositions are what else is new?
How do we not just solve them, but how do we actually come
to a happy, excellence and excellent, maybe even beautiful outcome out of embracing
(19:04):
these tensions in our positions, manyof which seem intractable. I think that's
incredibly valuable to hear. I justdescribed in our last this last session,
how I was in a local councilmeeting and the twenty one year old share
of it, who's wonderful. Shewas able to make decisions, have a
(19:27):
decision making process allowing uncertainty, whichwas quite a skill, you know.
And when you were saying with there'sa problem, what people tend to do
is go to what they can dowell, like bury themselves in the job
that they can do very well,to actually feel like something's moving forward.
So everybody's working doing what they dowell. But that's not actually an architectural
(19:48):
process where you look at the differencesand you work across and create something beautialful
about over those differences. Oh,I think I think one of the most
the hardest things to learn when you'restarting to study design and you know your
evolution as a designer if you everlearn it is I think one of the
(20:10):
biggest skills is what's you know,what's the least information you need to begin
the process? You know, it'snot like you can study things from now
to the kingdom come. You stillhave to face the moment of truth when
you have to start designing. Sowhat's the least Like, Wow, I
(20:30):
don't know all this stuff. Ican't begin, as opposed to well,
I don't know all this stuff.I need to begin, because only if
I begin will I be able toThe design process itself is such an important
and fundamental discovery process, right,I mean it's only when you start designing
that you learn of, you know, fifty percent of the problems that weren't
(20:52):
even in the brief. And Ithink whether architects manifest as humble or unhumble
people, I think that I believethat, ah, you know, sort
of happily. I mean, likethe way I think of myself as a
(21:15):
human being and as an architect isI'm happy that I know how to do
a few things reasonably well, includingbeing a synthesizer, and I am not
at all ashamed of the fact there'sa virtual infinity of stuff that I don't
know and will never know, bythe way, just like every other human
being. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so pleased that we've
(21:40):
got you on discussing the subject rightnow, because I keep talking about it
that you know, we've got problemshere just in a little rather boring,
little seaside kind of suburb, andno one seems to be able to think
like this and think like, Okay, there are solutions and we can go
for the ultimately great synthesized design opportunity, whereas we get so many little compromises
(22:04):
because everybody's just waiting for somebody elseor waiting to be told it can't be
done. But architecture, and theway you're thinking is actually enjoying the complexity,
enjoying the ugly, enjoying the problems, and enjoying the broken by communication.
And I think to the challenge asan architect, as a civic leader,
(22:26):
as a leader of an organization,as an engaged citizen is to understand,
well, how do you build abelief in the system. I mean,
the thing is I love that architectureis a architects live in the present
future. That's where we exist.I mean we're talking when we're working on
(22:51):
something. It doesn't exist now,it will be in the future. Normal
exist, moral people exist in thepresent, and it's a fundamental structure,
real challenge of being an architect becausein the beginning, you begin a project
where you know your client has itrequires one hundred percent faith to be a
(23:12):
believer in the beginning, because thefaith is that what you're showing your client
and describing is you know, isa that they get it and they say,
Okay, you're gonna do it.Well, the longer that processes goes
along, and it generally goes alongfor a while, that faith is being
(23:33):
eroded, so you become less andless of a believer. As an architect,
you want your client to be enoughof a believer, you know,
to get to get to the endof the process. So in the beginning,
if it requires a lot of faithto be a believer, by the
time it's built, it requires nofaith to be a believer. You be
a believer because it's there. Butmake hanging in there and and having a
(23:59):
normal non architect person believing in youand keeping the faith is a historic challenge
for architects. It's really hard,and it doesn't you can't always do it.
I mean, you know, somebodysay, well that's great, but
it's too it and generally a normalresponse as well, whatever amount of time
it takes and whatever it costs,it's taken too long and it costs too
(24:21):
much. And again, if you'reif you're not, this isn't what you
do. It's scary, you're outof your ken. You really it's an
act of faith. You don't know. You hope it's going to be nice
when it's done. You hope it'snot going to be it'll be on budget
or not too bad. But ifyou really think about it, I mean,
(24:42):
maybe people should freak out even morewhen they realize how much of an
act of faith it is to hangin there, to hang in there,
I mean. But and the artof the architect is to the extent that
you can maintain their trust and confidencein you. And also if you're doing
you know, it's such a longwinded relationship, yeah, that people just
(25:04):
get tired of you, like,well, I'm tired of hearing you tell
me it's going to be beautiful becauseit's not there yet. And I'm just
tired of it. Yeah, Butthat the creativity of the design is also
the creativity of handling the unknown fromthe client and and and connecting what you're
(25:26):
trying to deliver with a client thepeople who are producing it. And that
is also has its tensions, butit also has its great, great,
it's great sort of satisfaction, doesn'tit That communication? It does? I
mean, you know, almost notalways most of the time. Whatever tensions
you go through, by the timeit's done or a little after that,
(25:48):
you know, you can maybe laughabout it together, like, wow,
that was pretty tough spell. Idon't even remember. It was so tough.
I mean for a client. Uhyou know, I I recall,
you know, the difference between truthand reality. So you know, client
(26:10):
is in the middle of construction orclient is really upset and it's kind of
lost it and they say, Ican't even believe it, and look,
the sky is green today. Andthen you, as the architect, speak
the truth and you say, well, I'm really sorry, but the sky
is blue. And the client seesthe sky and it looks green to him,
and so he says, no,it's green. You're fired. That's
(26:33):
truth and reality. On the otherhand, if when the client is freaking
out and they say, wow,this guy is green, and then as
an architect, you don't you justsay okay, wow, interesting, interesting,
And then five months later, whenthe project is done, the client
said, you know that was sucha rough patch. I don't think so,
(26:55):
but I think I might have eventhought the sky was green on my
head was so twisted during the process. And true, you know, the
reality is you finessed it and andyou actually and you you lasted, you
know, you survived to to enjoy. Because architecture is also I mean,
I guess maybe many I don't know, maybe most disciplines are in ways I
(27:19):
don't understand it. Architecture is adeeply psychological discipline. Uh, not only
I mean between you and your ownpsyche, but also how you interact,
how you provide confidence, how youagain, how you inspire faith and get
(27:40):
people to hang in there, alsohow you deal with the the rummy things
that are going to happen along theway things will go wrong, and how
do you deal with a client sothat they continue to trust you by speaking
the truth. And by the way, isn't New Zealand I need a visit
(28:00):
isn't New Zealand spectacularly gorgeous one ofthose beautiful places in the world. Well,
it is. I actually adore rLa. I go to Santa Monica
in places like that, But NewZealand is wonderful. You do know that
we have your wonderful You probably don't. I don't know much about sport myself,
but we're running the World Cup here, the Woman's World Football Cup,
(28:21):
and your US team are over here. So it's been in Wellington, where
I am from. It's one ofthe places, and the woman's the woman.
The US woman's uniform is a hottopic. It was designed by Nick
who were in Portland, Oregon.Who I love Portland. I've been there
myself, but also a woman calledMartin Rose. So we're talking sport and
(28:41):
fashion and design here. American highend fashion meets us here in Wellington,
So that's pretty cool. Yeah,and you guys at the top. But
I'm just wondering if we could actuallypossibly have you on again. I mean,
I just love this you at acertain stage in your career being able
to articulate about architecture in this way. I don't know if the viewers already
(29:03):
got it, but you have anaward winning designs for homeless homeless schemes,
And so when you're talking about thesynthesis and the finessing and trying to manage
being a civic you know, acivic leader, you understand creativity from providing
a social but actually understanding what theproblem is and as an architect being able
to work through the solution process toachieve housing for those who don't have it.
(29:30):
Yeah, well, I think thevalue of architecture, maybe the value
of art is but the value ofarchitecture. I mean, first you have
to solve the problems practically, andthen you have to touch the culture and
touch people's souls. I mean,the possibility of architecture is to inspire action,
(29:51):
because like, wow, that's abeautiful place I feel good about.
Can I just can I just repeatthat. The possibility of architecture is to
inspire ext them, inspire action.That's right, by touching people's soul and
affecting the culture. And that's whatart does. You know, solving a
problem is for starters. If youdon't solve it, no one cares.
(30:12):
But if that's all you do,you haven't you know, you haven't touched
the soul in a way that inspiresaction, that gets I mean, that's
why love and beauty are you know, transcend into attributes. They get you
to a different place of being.You know, those are the that's the
essence of architecture at the end ofthe day. How do you make places
(30:34):
that make you want to be alive, that make you if you're living on
the street, that remind you that, oh, there are places that honor
my existence, you know, yea, And there are places that on of
my existence. And architecture can bethe portal through where we can advocate and
enable it. It's a wonderful jobthat well. That that I mean at
(30:59):
the end of the day, notthat every project even has the possibility of
doing that, but that is thejob. I mean, that's you know,
it's like that's a reason to becomean architect. That's what makes it
noble. It's like, wow,I can make places that make people happy
to be alive, lucky me.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And if you can position yourself assuch as you have where you can actually
(31:22):
mediate with these civic agencies. Yeah, a lot of the time, I
think, you know, if we'rejust designing for designing's sake, that's wonderful.
But if we can have the willto address social problems and know that
through design and the process of designsystems thinking, it's not just the object,
it's actually going through all of theall of the players to actually get
(31:47):
to the end result. Well,I think that's I think that's right.
I mean, I don't understand itany other way, frankly, I mean
it's you know, you you Imean one, not that I generally talk
in pure abstract formal terms, butthat is ultimately the language. You know,
(32:08):
one could have a pure formal discussionabout this. Those are the tools,
that's the vocabulary to do it.And we use that language to solve
very you know, real practical,basic problems and and you know, all
of the above is there, butit's not separable. I mean, pure
abstract design and beauty and uh,it's one thing. And solving problems,
(32:35):
you know, with a sense ofaspiring to hyper functionality. That's that's all
part of the deal. Yeah,yeah, a good deal. It's a
good deal. Yeah. I guessI should should, by way of introduction
at the end of our conversations,say that you have one by your colleagues
been given the Gold award in LAsome time ago, and and that produced
(32:57):
a beautiful video where a lot ofyour I mean, the way you spoke
about architecture then was fundamental and grounding, grounding, fundamental, so helpful for
all of us who are working dayto day in the discipline. And and
also you've been the ex president ofof of the of the of our profession,
Yes, I mean of the AAIin in your region, Los Angeles.
(33:22):
And I've a few other good organizationslike Homeless Healthcare Los Angeles, and
and and and some others. Imean, these are a nice way,
I mean, look with the AIA. Actually, one of my proud achievements
was twenty four years ago when Iwas president of our of our chapter,
I started an annual legislative Day whichis now twenty four years old, where
(33:45):
we meet as a profession one oncea year with our civic leaders and are
from the various districts maybe you know, two, three, four or five
architects meeting with a leader sharing ourconcerns. Use not about our profession,
but about the environment in architecture inthe city and the quality of urban life.
(34:06):
Yes, and so it makes beinga citizen fundamental to being an architect,
and it makes our our government lookat our profession and understand that we
are we are a turn to professionfor matters of our a public spatial,
physical well being. Has that achievedthere that I see you as a turn
to profession for measures of special andpublic well being. I mean, I
(34:30):
would love to start something like thathere local. In fact, I've been
knocking on doors. But you know, it's it's a it's a it's a
tricky process. It's tricky. Imean you need to have you know,
whether it's you need to have somecolleagues, you need to have your professional
staff that's supportive of it. Goodto find someone in government and then you
know it's ah. I remember thefirst time I did it was in Washington
(34:52):
when I was president, before Istarted locally, and I was scared shitless
going to accounts a senator or aEnglishman to talk about an agenda which I
didn't even understand very well. Andonce I went there, it was so
exhilarating to be a citizen. Imean, it's an exhilarating thing to have
(35:13):
talk to a leader and have themrespect you and they say, wow,
okay, that's good, I cando this forever. Yeah, yeah,
they can, and they can cometo you and and and respect the just
they'll go to discipline. We'll goto also because we you know, normal
people you know, have a problemto solve. You come up with one
solution, or architects you give yougive her five solutions, five problems,
(35:37):
and they'll come up with one muchgreater solution for all of them. With
a positive spirit, the ideas thatat the end we're going to be better
off than we are now we are. We are driven to optimistic solutions.
That makes any normal person feel happy. Yeah, yeah, yes, absolutely,
yes, we can learn to lovethe problem and out of problems,
(36:00):
which from in front of us isour sort of like that engenders our our
motivation is to see problems and howthey can be opportunities for moving forward and
creating change and coming out better thanwhat we would Rather than set up committees
for all the little problems, youknow, which seems to happen, you
know, this little problem, we'llhave that problem committee, in that problem
(36:21):
committee, but we're going to haveto close off. We can reconnect and
we'll figure out, you know,if you want to carry on the conversation,
I'm very happy to us a funconversation. We can give it a
whole hour next time and if youwould like to come back on Yeah no,
I'll be glad too. You havebeen listening to Local Architecture Now with
Rosalind's special guest architect, Michael Leafrom Hollywood, California. This program was
(36:47):
made with assistance from New Zealand onAir for radio broadcast and through the Access
Media dot org dot MZ website.Thank you New Zealand on Air, m m
Hello, Michael. Good to seeyou, Michael, and thank you so
much for coming on to Local ArchitectureNow for August twenty twenty three. Michael
Leira Michael Leira Architects all the wayfrom from Actually, I guess we've got
my district from Hollywood, California.Hollywood, California, and that's pretty amazing.
(00:36):
I mean, we're so privileged tohave you on the show. Here
we are in Why Can I Coupity? In New Zealand Air tier Row and
Michael from from Hollywood. But we'respeaking with Michael for very many reasons,
but partly because of your very identifiabletiny home development schemes for the homeless,
(00:56):
which stand out remarkably. You've gota great history of this and of course,
currently just all in the news herein New Zealand, we're looking at
our issues with potential relocation of indigenousMarai because of flooding up an out east
coast area and the regions there,and that that brings it across to the
local But anyway, Michael, you'vebeen practicing for a long time and your
(01:22):
passion and architectures renowned. Yeah,I have been practicing for a long time.
Well, you know, architecture.It takes a long time to build
something, and even longer to buildsomething that's darned nice, and then to
learn the lessons and go through severaliterations and rounds of growth. Architectures,
(01:48):
you know, a complex, it'sa complex human enterprise. And you know,
not for the not for the wearyat heart. I mean, uh,
you know, I was I believeI was born to be an architect.
So whatever challenges and discouragements there were, and there were many, as
(02:14):
there are for everybody, but certainlyfor in architecture, you know, you
just hang in there, and youknow, if you don't pay attention for
a little while, I said,oh my goodness, I've built a few
things here, and I've learned somelessons and and a nice variety of of
of projects. I mean really frompeople at the very bottom of the social
(02:35):
ladder too, I guess people youknow, way high way high up to
social adders. So the full rangeof humanity is which is that's a good
thing. That's a good thing.I mean the fact that you name being
humanity as in the conversation around architecture, which is is wonderful because a lot
(02:58):
of times that is not the wordthat people use a lot in the industry,
I mean, which is what itreally is about. And and also
that lovely since that you say it'sit's architecture is goes through so many lifetimes
and it's sort of like certain age, you know, it's it's a lifetime,
and it's also often the older person'scareer because it takes that long to
(03:22):
really Yeah, I think it isan old person. I mean, it
is an old person's discipline. AndI think when other people in other disciplines
are thinking of winding down, Imean every human being can you know,
can wind down when they when theyneed to. But in architecture, you
know, you're you're just you know, you're developing a modicum of mastery over
(03:46):
a long period of time, andand you know the fix is actually you
know, bringing places into the world. And I would re emphasize, I
mean you're making this for human beingand it I think it ends up being
a not in every way, butin many ways a secondary or tertiary,
(04:09):
if not lower qualifier, whether somebodyis houseless or homed, or well to
do or not. I mean peopleare people, and people at every and
the full range of human experience andachievement or lack of achievement, whatever,
(04:30):
you know, have the same needs. Uh, you know, I mean
being a human being. I meanfrom the clear physical ones of shelter and
nourishments, you know, to adignity, to pride, even prestige.
I mean, you know, ifyou have nothing, Uh, maybe you
(04:51):
just have a pillow you've had fora few years that someone gave you or
whatever. And someone else may havea villa. But those are things that
as you know, the things youtreasure and the things you treasure and that
make you full the human And Ithink that's that's Uh. I think that's
it. I mean for us inour work, for me as a human
(05:13):
being. That's that's that's an importantunderstanding. And also the end of the
day, the rudiments of architecture arethe same. Uh. You know,
whether you're providing a uh you know, a tiny home or something next level
up from that, or a villa. You know, I mean light,
fresh air, the ability to feelsecure, uh, connection to the landscape,
(05:40):
uh, you know, degrees ofcommunity and privacy. All of those
things are you know, and andand the fancy projects, uh the I
shouldn't say fancy because all projects havethe possibility being fancy, but projects for
people of means informed projects for peopleof virtually no means, and vice versa.
(06:02):
So what you're talking about now atan older age, see it is
actually probably this is verbalizing exactly thesort of instincts that you had when you
first heard about architecture. But it'sgoes through the hot that is basically the
principles. I would imagine that attractspeople to architecture and for me included as
land and people. And then it'sstill a rich conversation, you know,
(06:25):
after decades and decades of practice,you know, for those basic sort of
things. Yeah, I think that'sa really that's a really loved I mean,
it's a came in, I meana lovely and an important observation.
I don't know if that's universally true. I mean I think along the way,
as with any discipline in pursuit,there are probably more good reasons to
(06:48):
stop doing it and try something else, right, I mean, every you
hit blocks in everything, thank youin life, and the thing that maybe
defines you or a defined or ofsome modicum of success is the fortitude,
the tenacity, the need you haveto break through those blots right, and
(07:08):
to hang in there through the pain, through the rejection, through the failure,
because this is what you gotta do. I mean, architecture is certainly
like that. I mean it's Iwould say, you know, having traumas
along the way or part of becomingan architect. I mean it's a you
know, buildings and things related tobuildings are are expensive, and you know
(07:30):
you you don't know, you don'tknow a lot more than you know.
I mean, by the time you'redone, you still don't know everything,
but you know, you again,you developed some some degree of mastery.
I mean, I decided to bean architect when I was a child,
and you know, I was eight, I think within a year or two,
(07:51):
I under I think I understood thatsimply that you know, it was
a way of solving you been problemsand needs in ways that you know,
might be nice, maybe beautiful.I don't know if I might have articulated
that, and that, you know, had some relationship to science and art.
(08:13):
And I'm not even sure that Iknew that much about what science was.
Then I knew a little more aboutso we had a grip on there
to day. I didn't come toit till I was like seventeen, well
I did. I mean, whathappened was in third grade and I lived
only twelve of my many years onthe planet have not been in this neighborhood
where I live. In practice,so my elementary school about a mile from
(08:37):
here. In third grade, agirl I had a crush on brought blueprints
which is what they used to becalled blue drawings with white lines on them
to school that of a high schoolher father designed. And I looked at
them and something resonated. I meanI said, or felt, this is
(09:00):
what I'm going to do. AndI never changed my mind. And the
the sensibility, the residence I foundwith some essence of me, you know,
was the beauty of the line work, the beauty of the printing,
the deliciousness of making a mark onpaper. And and by the way,
(09:24):
I mean, it's never changed forme. I take my my fancy fountain
pen, which I've had. It'sthe third one, but I've had the
same pen for over forty years.When I take my pen and put it
to paper doing anything, I'm happy. It's just like, Okay, life
is good. Yeah, what awonderful conversation. I mean, this is
(09:48):
wonderful, and I totally I meanthe moment in my day to day week
right now. You know, I'mright in the thick of and you and
and you know you have wonderful designtimes, but you also you've got to
deal is details and you've got tothink about the details and in the client
and the contract at this particular week. So I totally appreciate this conversation getting
out of the stepping out of thatand have you say, in a lifetime
(10:09):
of work, architecture is hard.You know, there are blocks, but
then that is also the wonderful tensionin the system. As soon as you're
in that tension and you're dealing withit and you're with it, and then
you get to a design outcome,that is also part of it, that
tension and that release, which wellit's not separable from it. I mean,
(10:31):
I think and I think it's life, and I think it's the creative
process. So the creative process isan intensified version of life, failure and
success, thriving, facing the abars, feeling good, feeling bad about yourself,
and the design process is just thaton steroids. I mean, in
fact, I think most of thetime as a designer, I'm not feeling
(10:54):
so good about myself. Yes,when a design doesn't work, you feel
like a failure, no matter howmany times you've done it, and that's
not a good feeling. You learnhow to cope with it and not hopefully
bring you down as much as youget older, and you put up with
it, but like, wow,this is really hard. I guess I'm
(11:16):
not as good as I thought Iwas. And then you solve it and
say, okay, wow, lifeis good, life is beautiful. Yeah,
and that's that's that's the cycle,and I think that is I think
that's the essence of the creative process. And my own little insight many years
ago was one of the most difficultthings that one of the reasons why most
(11:39):
people avoid the creative process from childhoodon, whether it's drawing or writing or
painting or who knows what anything isthat to make an ugly mark on a
piece of paper or anything is excruciatinghuman pain for every human being. And
(12:00):
you know, when you're five yearsold you draw with abandon and it's fine.
And by the time you're six,seven, eight years old, you
make a line as they were,that's ugly, and or someone makes us
says, well, that's not sogood. Whatever, the pain is so
great, and I feel the painis great. Nut because growing is unimportant,
but because it's too important, andso that. And if there's no
(12:24):
reason for you to continue, youknow, doing stuff to endure that pain,
you just you just stop. Sohow is a parent? How is
a teacher? How is as anadults in the ability to do a little
metacognition? How do you get yourselfthrough that pain? You know, like
an athlete works herself through, youknow, the pain to get to the
(12:46):
successful outcome when they're looking. Andthat's the same in the design and creative
process. You know, your abilityto get through that pain is an addition
to whatever special talent you may ormay not have. If you have that
tenacity, that has a lot ofvalue in the creative process and massive value
(13:07):
as an architect plus architecture. Justas architects, we live in a different
time zone normal human beings. Maybeyou can remember maybe two or three weeks
back, and maybe can anticipate twoor three weeks in the future. But
as an architect, when you starteda job and say, wow, I
can't believe it. This may bedone in two or three years. Yeah,
(13:30):
it may be longer, okay,And then you get excited by all
of these milestones and no one elsegets excited about it, but you expect
it over a long period of timeand you adjust your I mean, you
live that way because if you don'tmake that adjustment, you can't do work
like this. It just takes toolong. Yeah, And you adjust to
those those intense stresses and those areintense resolutions as a day to day thing,
(13:58):
and what an emotional role of roadcrist But also the constant communication,
I mean that is also part ofthe creativity. Is the creativity is actually
collaborating and communicating and knowing there's goingto be issues with your client's concerns and
then translating those to the contractor,but all the time knowing that you're mediating
(14:20):
a building through all of this.That is also part of the creativity,
is it? Oh, I thinkit's a creativity, and I think it's
it's among the the virtues of beingan architect or something like an architect that
has real value to society. Imean, I think, uh, one
(14:41):
of the current riffs in Los Angelesis talking about, you know, the
slowness of the bureaucracy, because allover the place, but certainly here and
the silos, each bureaucratic silo.Yes, And then you realize that as
architects are, maybe our most fundamentalskill is dealing with people in different silos
(15:03):
who may not have anything to dowith one another, and maybe different than
architecture per se. Whether it's youknow, the structural engineer or the civil
engineer, or the accoustician or theyou know, the landscape architect or you
know, they all have their ownspecialties, and our training is to know
enough about what they do to communicatewith them and hear them, and to
(15:28):
honor what they want to do.But also, you know, shape it
in a way that you know,this may not be the perfect piece of
structure, but it may be aperfect piece of architecture. You know,
how to compromise and synthesize all thosethings. That's a very special skill.
Again, that's something which is nota normal skill for normal people. And
(15:50):
I think what you've just been describingin the process of what architecture can offer
two systems like that, it's justI've just in the last couple of days
actually in this book care our latestour brands build which is our Building Research
Association, New Zealand. They've gotan exact article, the exact article on
exactly that about systems systems thinking andthat you know, we need to start
(16:12):
looking at the non silo and allof that. And I noticed that on
ARC daily exactly that just yesterday,a whole article on how we need to
start looking at systems thinking in theand how that can provide opportunities for resolving
so many What system I hear itis what system transformation means for the sector.
(16:37):
And they're having a whole sort ofacademic conversation about exactly the process that
you're describing now of what architects cando working at horizontally across siloed. The
other thing is when you're talking aboutmulti trans disciplinary engagement or silos and breaking
silos, it's easy to focus onthe breaking and the transdisciplinary, but it
(17:02):
can't be trans disciplinary without a discipline. You can't break a silo without honoring
the silo. I mean, thesilo exists for a reason. So you
know it's like, well, youjust you you just shouldn't stay in your
silo. You know, it's likeyou get together and and you know that's
how you make good things happen inthe world. I mean, that's bringing
together, honoring what, honoring whatanybody brings to the table, and opening
(17:27):
them up and being open to themu to you know, to get to
the moment the SA architecture synthesis.Yeah, the synthesis the solutions thinking,
not the problems thinking. Yeah.I think that conversation that what you're just
describing is is key to now andkey as a as an approach to so
(17:49):
many ways of looking at the currentcomplex problems we've got at the moment.
Sorry, it's why we adver knowwhy in our profession here, you know,
for decades we you know, oneof our positions is, you know,
include architects on various governmental or youknow, committees that may not be
(18:15):
explicitly about architecture, but that areabout you know, successful problem solving.
And because you know, the wayI describe architecture versus sort of maybe more
non architectural thinking is uh, youknow, for normal people when their tensions
and oppositions, you know, thethe normal response as well, somebody must
(18:38):
have screwed up, maybe there's somemalfeasans, maybe there is incompetence or whatever.
But when an architect sees oppositions andtensions you look at and say,
oh, we're alive. Yeah,tensions and oppositions are what else is new?
How do we not just solve them, but how do we actually come
to a happy, excellence and excellent, maybe even beautiful outcome out of embracing
(19:04):
these tensions in our positions, manyof which seem intractable. I think that's
incredibly valuable to hear. I justdescribed in our last this last session,
how I was in a local councilmeeting and the twenty one year old share
of it, who's wonderful. Shewas able to make decisions, have a
(19:27):
decision making process allowing uncertainty, whichwas quite a skill, you know.
And when you were saying with there'sa problem, what people tend to do
is go to what they can dowell, like bury themselves in the job
that they can do very well,to actually feel like something's moving forward.
So everybody's working doing what they dowell. But that's not actually an architectural
(19:48):
process where you look at the differencesand you work across and create something beautialful
about over those differences. Oh,I think I think one of the most
the hardest things to learn when you'restarting to study design and you know your
evolution as a designer if you everlearn it is I think one of the
(20:10):
biggest skills is what's you know,what's the least information you need to begin
the process? You know, it'snot like you can study things from now
to the kingdom come. You stillhave to face the moment of truth when
you have to start designing. Sowhat's the least Like, Wow, I
(20:30):
don't know all this stuff. Ican't begin, as opposed to well,
I don't know all this stuff.I need to begin, because only if
I begin will I be able toThe design process itself is such an important
and fundamental discovery process, right,I mean it's only when you start designing
that you learn of, you know, fifty percent of the problems that weren't
(20:52):
even in the brief. And Ithink whether architects manifest as humble or unhumble
people, I think that I believethat, ah, you know, sort
of happily. I mean, likethe way I think of myself as a
(21:15):
human being and as an architect isI'm happy that I know how to do
a few things reasonably well, includingbeing a synthesizer, and I am not
at all ashamed of the fact there'sa virtual infinity of stuff that I don't
know and will never know, bythe way, just like every other human
being. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so pleased that we've
(21:40):
got you on discussing the subject rightnow, because I keep talking about it
that you know, we've got problemshere just in a little rather boring,
little seaside kind of suburb, andno one seems to be able to think
like this and think like, Okay, there are solutions and we can go
for the ultimately great synthesized design opportunity, whereas we get so many little compromises
(22:04):
because everybody's just waiting for somebody elseor waiting to be told it can't be
done. But architecture, and theway you're thinking is actually enjoying the complexity,
enjoying the ugly, enjoying the problems, and enjoying the broken by communication.
And I think to the challenge asan architect, as a civic leader,
(22:26):
as a leader of an organization,as an engaged citizen is to understand,
well, how do you build abelief in the system. I mean,
the thing is I love that architectureis a architects live in the present
future. That's where we exist.I mean we're talking when we're working on
(22:51):
something. It doesn't exist now,it will be in the future. Normal
exist, moral people exist in thepresent, and it's a fundamental structure,
real challenge of being an architect becausein the beginning, you begin a project
where you know your client has itrequires one hundred percent faith to be a
(23:12):
believer in the beginning, because thefaith is that what you're showing your client
and describing is you know, isa that they get it and they say,
Okay, you're gonna do it.Well, the longer that processes goes
along, and it generally goes alongfor a while, that faith is being
(23:33):
eroded, so you become less andless of a believer. As an architect,
you want your client to be enoughof a believer, you know,
to get to get to the endof the process. So in the beginning,
if it requires a lot of faithto be a believer, by the
time it's built, it requires nofaith to be a believer. You be
a believer because it's there. Butmake hanging in there and and having a
(23:59):
normal non architect person believing in youand keeping the faith is a historic challenge
for architects. It's really hard,and it doesn't you can't always do it.
I mean, you know, somebodysay, well that's great, but
it's too it and generally a normalresponse as well, whatever amount of time
it takes and whatever it costs,it's taken too long and it costs too
(24:21):
much. And again, if you'reif you're not, this isn't what you
do. It's scary, you're outof your ken. You really it's an
act of faith. You don't know. You hope it's going to be nice
when it's done. You hope it'snot going to be it'll be on budget
or not too bad. But ifyou really think about it, I mean,
(24:42):
maybe people should freak out even morewhen they realize how much of an
act of faith it is to hangin there, to hang in there,
I mean. But and the artof the architect is to the extent that
you can maintain their trust and confidencein you. And also if you're doing
you know, it's such a longwinded relationship, yeah, that people just
(25:04):
get tired of you, like,well, I'm tired of hearing you tell
me it's going to be beautiful becauseit's not there yet. And I'm just
tired of it. Yeah, Butthat the creativity of the design is also
the creativity of handling the unknown fromthe client and and and connecting what you're
(25:26):
trying to deliver with a client thepeople who are producing it. And that
is also has its tensions, butit also has its great, great,
it's great sort of satisfaction, doesn'tit That communication? It does? I
mean, you know, almost notalways most of the time. Whatever tensions
you go through, by the timeit's done or a little after that,
(25:48):
you know, you can maybe laughabout it together, like, wow,
that was pretty tough spell. Idon't even remember. It was so tough.
I mean for a client. Uhyou know, I I recall,
you know, the difference between truthand reality. So you know, client
(26:10):
is in the middle of construction orclient is really upset and it's kind of
lost it and they say, Ican't even believe it, and look,
the sky is green today. Andthen you, as the architect, speak
the truth and you say, well, I'm really sorry, but the sky
is blue. And the client seesthe sky and it looks green to him,
and so he says, no,it's green. You're fired. That's
(26:33):
truth and reality. On the otherhand, if when the client is freaking
out and they say, wow,this guy is green, and then as
an architect, you don't you justsay okay, wow, interesting, interesting,
And then five months later, whenthe project is done, the client
said, you know that was sucha rough patch. I don't think so,
(26:55):
but I think I might have eventhought the sky was green on my
head was so twisted during the process. And true, you know, the
reality is you finessed it and andyou actually and you you lasted, you
know, you survived to to enjoy. Because architecture is also I mean,
I guess maybe many I don't know, maybe most disciplines are in ways I
(27:19):
don't understand it. Architecture is adeeply psychological discipline. Uh, not only
I mean between you and your ownpsyche, but also how you interact,
how you provide confidence, how youagain, how you inspire faith and get
(27:40):
people to hang in there, alsohow you deal with the the rummy things
that are going to happen along theway things will go wrong, and how
do you deal with a client sothat they continue to trust you by speaking
the truth. And by the way, isn't New Zealand I need a visit
(28:00):
isn't New Zealand spectacularly gorgeous one ofthose beautiful places in the world. Well,
it is. I actually adore rLa. I go to Santa Monica
in places like that, But NewZealand is wonderful. You do know that
we have your wonderful You probably don't. I don't know much about sport myself,
but we're running the World Cup here, the Woman's World Football Cup,
(28:21):
and your US team are over here. So it's been in Wellington, where
I am from. It's one ofthe places, and the woman's the woman.
The US woman's uniform is a hottopic. It was designed by Nick
who were in Portland, Oregon.Who I love Portland. I've been there
myself, but also a woman calledMartin Rose. So we're talking sport and
(28:41):
fashion and design here. American highend fashion meets us here in Wellington,
So that's pretty cool. Yeah,and you guys at the top. But
I'm just wondering if we could actuallypossibly have you on again. I mean,
I just love this you at acertain stage in your career being able
to articulate about architecture in this way. I don't know if the viewers already
(29:03):
got it, but you have anaward winning designs for homeless homeless schemes,
And so when you're talking about thesynthesis and the finessing and trying to manage
being a civic you know, acivic leader, you understand creativity from providing
a social but actually understanding what theproblem is and as an architect being able
to work through the solution process toachieve housing for those who don't have it.
(29:30):
Yeah, well, I think thevalue of architecture, maybe the value
of art is but the value ofarchitecture. I mean, first you have
to solve the problems practically, andthen you have to touch the culture and
touch people's souls. I mean,the possibility of architecture is to inspire action,
(29:51):
because like, wow, that's abeautiful place I feel good about.
Can I just can I just repeatthat. The possibility of architecture is to
inspire ext them, inspire action.That's right, by touching people's soul and
affecting the culture. And that's whatart does. You know, solving a
problem is for starters. If youdon't solve it, no one cares.
(30:12):
But if that's all you do,you haven't you know, you haven't touched
the soul in a way that inspiresaction, that gets I mean, that's
why love and beauty are you know, transcend into attributes. They get you
to a different place of being.You know, those are the that's the
essence of architecture at the end ofthe day. How do you make places
(30:34):
that make you want to be alive, that make you if you're living on
the street, that remind you that, oh, there are places that honor
my existence, you know, yea, And there are places that on of
my existence. And architecture can bethe portal through where we can advocate and
enable it. It's a wonderful jobthat well. That that I mean at
(30:59):
the end of the day, notthat every project even has the possibility of
doing that, but that is thejob. I mean, that's you know,
it's like that's a reason to becomean architect. That's what makes it
noble. It's like, wow,I can make places that make people happy
to be alive, lucky me.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And if you can position yourself assuch as you have where you can actually
(31:22):
mediate with these civic agencies. Yeah, a lot of the time, I
think, you know, if we'rejust designing for designing's sake, that's wonderful.
But if we can have the willto address social problems and know that
through design and the process of designsystems thinking, it's not just the object,
it's actually going through all of theall of the players to actually get
(31:47):
to the end result. Well,I think that's I think that's right.
I mean, I don't understand itany other way, frankly, I mean
it's you know, you you Imean one, not that I generally talk
in pure abstract formal terms, butthat is ultimately the language. You know,
(32:08):
one could have a pure formal discussionabout this. Those are the tools,
that's the vocabulary to do it.And we use that language to solve
very you know, real practical,basic problems and and you know, all
of the above is there, butit's not separable. I mean, pure
abstract design and beauty and uh,it's one thing. And solving problems,
(32:35):
you know, with a sense ofaspiring to hyper functionality. That's that's all
part of the deal. Yeah,yeah, a good deal. It's a
good deal. Yeah. I guessI should should, by way of introduction
at the end of our conversations,say that you have one by your colleagues
been given the Gold award in LAsome time ago, and and that produced
(32:57):
a beautiful video where a lot ofyour I mean, the way you spoke
about architecture then was fundamental and grounding, grounding, fundamental, so helpful for
all of us who are working dayto day in the discipline. And and
also you've been the ex president ofof of the of the of our profession,
Yes, I mean of the AAIin in your region, Los Angeles.
(33:22):
And I've a few other good organizationslike Homeless Healthcare Los Angeles, and
and and and some others. Imean, these are a nice way,
I mean, look with the AIA. Actually, one of my proud achievements
was twenty four years ago when Iwas president of our of our chapter,
I started an annual legislative Day whichis now twenty four years old, where
(33:45):
we meet as a profession one oncea year with our civic leaders and are
from the various districts maybe you know, two, three, four or five
architects meeting with a leader sharing ourconcerns. Use not about our profession,
but about the environment in architecture inthe city and the quality of urban life.
(34:06):
Yes, and so it makes beinga citizen fundamental to being an architect,
and it makes our our government lookat our profession and understand that we
are we are a turn to professionfor matters of our a public spatial,
physical well being. Has that achievedthere that I see you as a turn
to profession for measures of special andpublic well being. I mean, I
(34:30):
would love to start something like thathere local. In fact, I've been
knocking on doors. But you know, it's it's a it's a it's a
tricky process. It's tricky. Imean you need to have you know,
whether it's you need to have somecolleagues, you need to have your professional
staff that's supportive of it. Goodto find someone in government and then you
know it's ah. I remember thefirst time I did it was in Washington
(34:52):
when I was president, before Istarted locally, and I was scared shitless
going to accounts a senator or aEnglishman to talk about an agenda which I
didn't even understand very well. Andonce I went there, it was so
exhilarating to be a citizen. Imean, it's an exhilarating thing to have
(35:13):
talk to a leader and have themrespect you and they say, wow,
okay, that's good, I cando this forever. Yeah, yeah,
they can, and they can cometo you and and and respect the just
they'll go to discipline. We'll goto also because we you know, normal
people you know, have a problemto solve. You come up with one
solution, or architects you give yougive her five solutions, five problems,
(35:37):
and they'll come up with one muchgreater solution for all of them. With
a positive spirit, the ideas thatat the end we're going to be better
off than we are now we are. We are driven to optimistic solutions.
That makes any normal person feel happy. Yeah, yeah, yes, absolutely,
yes, we can learn to lovethe problem and out of problems,
(36:00):
which from in front of us isour sort of like that engenders our our
motivation is to see problems and howthey can be opportunities for moving forward and
creating change and coming out better thanwhat we would Rather than set up committees
for all the little problems, youknow, which seems to happen, you
know, this little problem, we'llhave that problem committee, in that problem
(36:21):
committee, but we're going to haveto close off. We can reconnect and
we'll figure out, you know,if you want to carry on the conversation,
I'm very happy to us a funconversation. We can give it a
whole hour next time and if youwould like to come back on Yeah no,
I'll be glad too. You havebeen listening to Local Architecture Now with
Rosalind's special guest architect, Michael Leafrom Hollywood, California. This program was
(36:47):
made with assistance from New Zealand onAir for radio broadcast and through the Access
Media dot org dot MZ website.Thank you New Zealand on Air, m m
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!